It Could Happen Here - It Could Happen Here Weekly 53

Episode Date: October 1, 2022

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so every episode of the week that just happened is here in one convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to in a long stretch if you want. If you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going to be nothing new here for you, but you can make your own decisions. Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about things falling apart. This week, we have an episode that is in the vein of what my co-host Garrison Davis and I like to call, here's a problem, goodbye episodes. And the problem is that there has been a massive, and as far as I can tell, unprecedented wave of swatting incidents against public schools in multiple states over the last couple of weeks. public schools in multiple states over the last couple of weeks. And here with me to talk about that is the person who noticed it first, anti-fascist researcher and community meeting

note-taker Molly Conjure. Molly, you are Socialist Dog Mom on Twitter, where you are a sensation with your delightful little pups, and also one of the best researchers that I know in the biz. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the show. Great to be here. So, yeah, you want to start? Yeah, so this has been going on, I guess, for two weeks. There's been this wave of swattings against schools across the country, and I didn't notice it until it happened here.

We had to restart this so many times. I feel like I'm going to is like the third time it's great though you should because it happened here i love it when they say the name of the show and we finally get to do it yeah but you know my you know my attention is primarily local so on monday when every cop in the region was dispatched to charlottesville high school because there was a false report of an active shooter inside the school um it was quickly determined to be a swatting right so they they dispatched everybody they locked the school down they cleared the classrooms with guns you know kids reported being terrified of you know because

nothing was happening to them they were just enjoying you know an afternoon at high school then all of a sudden there's a man with a rifle in their classroom um and it was quickly determined to have been a swatting and And I was listening over the scanner. And by the time they were clearing the scene, that's what they were calling it. So the police identified it as a swatting like through over the. Yeah. And I think that may have they may have arrived at that conclusion more quickly because a dozen other districts had it at the same time. So across the state of Virginia, districts, you know, from Hampton Roads to Arlington, Culpeper, Lynchburg,

like tiny towns in Shenandoah County, like a town with 4,000 people down in the southern part of the state were hit at almost exactly the same time with these hoax calls about, you know, got to get somebody down to the school because there's somebody with a gun. Good Lord. So it happened all over the place. All of these schools were quickly cleared. No one was hurt. Thank God.

But as I was thinking, you know, as the news was coming in, I was picking, you know, picking through trying to find the districts where this was happening. And I was pulling up these news articles and it wasn't just us and it wasn't just that day. Yeah. yeah um so it's i think the the earliest i can find in this rash uh was what is that two weeks ago um in texas a bunch of districts in texas were hit uh and the one in houston i think is particularly grim because the caller the caller said you know oh 10 students have already been shot they're in the classroom it's two guys with ars and they gave this is one of the one of the ones that's the best described in the media is that the caller gave a description of the two shooters. And that's what scares me, right? Is

that the cops show up with a description in mind. They're going to act with extreme prejudice if they see someone who fits that description. There's a Hispanic guy in the parking lot that, you know, could be a risk. Yeah. Well, and that's, that's the first one, like, when I shared your early posts on this, people from Houston started showing up and saying, like, hey, you know, we had something like this hit a couple of weeks ago, and it sounds like it's the same thing. And these are, I mean, like, number one, the scale of this, it feels unlikely that at some level, I know there's certainly an extreme likelihood that some of these are copycats, some of these are people falling in, but the sheer

number of them makes it seem, it's hard to believe that this would all be unrelated. All of these calls would be unrelated to each other. I don't know what the background level of normal swattings is, right? I'm sure to a certain degree, of normal swattings is. I'm sure to a certain degree this is happening somewhere all the time. People are saying, oh, it's just kids who don't want to take tests. 15 schools in Minnesota were hit simultaneously yesterday. This isn't kids who don't want to take tests. Right.

Simultaneously, so many schools. And there is a point there, because people, when I started sharing this started sharing this and stuff people are like well what are we supposed to do and the first thing that occurs to me is actually not a preventative measure but is purely just like well we should probably have some sort of at least at a state level system at every state for letting people know how many fake swatting attempts against schools are happening how many like false reports of uh mass shootings at schools occur like it would be because false reports of mass shootings at schools occur. Like it would be because otherwise we can't tell if this is rising above the level of background.

I think it's clear this is because neither of us can think of a time when there were this many in such a short period of time. But like dozens a day, dozens a day, there should be some method of keeping track of that because it is. I mean, I thought that was the lesson of 9-11, right? Is that we don't have interagency communication. Like, you know, on Monday when it was hitting all these schools in Virginia, some of the early reports were, you know, quotes from local authorities saying we talked to the state police and this happened to two other people. It's like, well, I've already found 10 other reports.

Yeah. Did the state police know about those? Yeah. And it's it's this is obviously none of this is as bad as a single actual mass shooting at a school. But this isn't like nothing either. It's not like you you file a false report about, I don't know, a break in and the cops drive around a neighborhood for a while like this is kids getting guns pointed in their faces. This is children thinking that like their friends have been massacred. This is like parents thinking their kids might be dead.

This is a, this, this is an act of violence. Like doing this as an act of violence. And it ripples, right? The effects of this are compound and unfathomable. You know,

I heard from friends in the community saying, you know, I got a text from my 13 year old son saying, I don't know what's happening, but I love you. And even if, even if, even if, you know,

30 minutes later, the dangerous past and everyone knows it was a false alarm for that 30 minutes. Those parents thought, thought that their kids weren't going to come home. And that, you know, that's a background fear that parents have every day when they send it,

but that's the text. No parent wants to get right. You know, before we lost the recording earlier, I was telling you about a, um, a surgeon here in Charlottesville. She's a surgeon at UVA hospital.

So the hospital was alerted about a possible mass casualty incident so they could prepare their, their operating rooms. And so this woman gets the mass casualty incident alert as she's scrubbing in for a scheduled surgery. So she has to walk into that. She has to walk into that OR without her phone, knowing that her child's school to her knowledge in that moment has a mass shooter inside of it. And so she doesn't know if when she walks out of that OR, are her children going to be in there. That's horrific. That's horrific.

And also, like, that could get somebody killed. And this is nothing against her. That affects the level of care. It would not be surprising if she was less able to properly provide care in that situation. That's just being a person um so this is serious very serious and it um so yesterday a rash of them hit minnesota and some locals in minnesota were saying that so one of the schools that was hit was east mankato

high school the day before so the day before yesterday that high at that high school a student at that high school attempted suicide with a firearm in the parking lot. So kids came back to school the day after this. The student survived and is hospitalized. But they're coming to school, hopefully, to access counseling resources and deal with the fact that one of their classmates shot himself in the parking lot. And suddenly they're sheltering in place. And there's cops with guns. shot himself in the parking lot, and suddenly they're sheltering in place.

And there's cops with guns. There is a baseline reality for these students every day that gun violence is present. And this is just cruel to them. One of the things that surprises me, you and I, you started, what was it, four days ago now? Kind of reporting this on your Twitter, which is where you do your reporting on local news and the anti-fascist reporting as well. And so I started sharing your stuff and we started chatting about doing an episode. And my suspicion, the thing I was expecting was that like, well, we'll probably get scooped on this, right? Like there's probably like Vice or somebody is going to put out

something because there's just there's too damn many of these. It's Thursday now. The started Monday. I still haven't seen any coverage of this as a as a wave of swattings. And I'm kind of surprised by that. There's a few like, you know, regionally people are putting together and doing these little quick hits about like, oh, this happened in a dozen districts in our state. Yeah, but I'm not I'm not seeing anyone connect the dots nationally and you know in some of these local stories they're saying you know local authorities are talking to the fbi but i don't know that there's a cohesive nationwide investigation into

this as as a phenomenon regionally there is some indication that like these calls are connected so i saw an article that just came out an hour ago in minnesota that all of the minnesota calls came from the same IP address. Ah, so this, that's, I mean, that's what, that's the proof we're looking for, though. That's the evidence we're looking for that, like, there's a significant degree to which this stuff is coordinated. And when I, because this is something that since you started talking about it, every researcher I know who covers extremism has been talking about at least a little bit in like private conversations, signal loops.

And the thing that keeps coming up is like, is there some shit on Kiwi farms? Is there some shit on 4chan? Is there some shit on like these, these little spaces? I can't find it. I haven't seen anything, nothing.

So yeah. And you know, to some degree there is the possibility of social contagion, right? Like I found a few stories that don't fit the pattern. Specific cases like yesterday in Roanoke, a 14 year old girl was arrested for making one of these threats. She didn't make all of them. She made this one. Yeah. Did she do this? Was she inspired to do so because of this? Was it unrelated? It's hard to say. So there's at some point, even if it did originate in one incubator it breaks containment and i'm i'm i am certain that's part of the intent right like when you do the benefit of if you're thinking about because again we don't know who did this we don't know what kind of ideology or whatever or why was

behind it but we know that a significant number of them like occurred from a single source, which means like something coordinated was happening at some stage of this. That's a reasonable conclusion to draw from the extant information. And I think it's just pure psychic terrorism, right? Because my first thought on Monday was, is this someone testing the fences? Is this someone timing response times? Is this someone watching local news coverage to see what kind of equipment the police have that doesn't make sense at this scale this isn't how you would do that because this is going to draw too much attention right and like why would you want to know the you know the police capabilities in emporia virginia which is just like three truck stops in a high school no offense to to the beautiful town of Emporia, Virginia. It is Virginia's greatest speed trap.

God bless them. Yeah. But like that theory immediately fell by the wayside for me because it doesn't make sense. But it is interesting. So I've been trying to compile follow-ups on some of these reports because the initial reporting is vague. And people use 911 as shorthand. So they'll say a 911 call. But was it actually a 911 call? Because that makes

a huge difference here. Dialing 911 is, you know, I'm not a genius about how technology works, but if I dial 911 here from my living room, it hits my closest emergency communication center, right? It's my local 911. If these calls are being made from out of state, it takes a high degree of technical ability to hit a 9-1-1 dispatch center where you aren't yeah right so we know we're not dealing with someone who is capable of that alternatively we know perhaps that this person knows that making a false 9-1-1 call is a separately prosecutable crime right so like a lot of the articles that are specific will say that the call came in directly to police dispatch or the call came in to the front desk at the sheriff's

office so these people know well enough how to contact the you know the front desk at the police department and the name of a school that's nearby right there it's not it's not so vague as to just be dialing random police stations and saying, go to the high school. Well, no, and that also, again, because we've just mentioned, I haven't seen any evidence of this in the places you would expect if this was the way a lot of these doxing campaigns have gone, the way a lot of Kiwi farm stuff goes, the way a lot of swatting happens, where like you have a shitload of people openly talking about and talking about bad things happening to a targeted person and then some of those people do swattings right there's no evidence of that and the way in which it seems like the bulk of these have gone doesn't seem like the way it would happen if you were just kind of targeting someone in a public area and hoping that enough people made the decision independently to make these calls. My other thought, too, is that, you know, it's sort of a libs of TikTok phenomenon, like they're targeting schools with, you know, woke policies, CRT, gender inclusion.

They're not. I mean, they get Lynchburg, Virginia, which is Jerry Falwell country. There's no demographic or political consistency to the districts being targeted. Well, and the right hasn't picked this up at all. I haven't seen any kind of like very no one. Very few people seem to have at this point. So this is just such a. If I were if I were to guess where this is going down, it's some some sort of communications platform where people have a degree of privacy um and i don't know if it's not testing the fences which at this point it seems too

widespread to be then it may just be kind of pure i mean one thing that occurs to me is just like there's the pure accelerationist value of of setting up this wave and hoping that that the copycat effect will just keep it going for a significant period of time of shutting down dozens of schools around the country, of traumatizing kids, of continually making those schools roll the dice. Because anytime you have a cop with an AR busted to a fucking school hyped up thinking there's a shooting, there's a chance someone's going to get shot, right? So there's... Right, and that's, I mean, there have been deaths from swattings, and that was my feeling. So it happened here two days in a row.

On Tuesday, it happened at our middle school. And so, like, the second time they responded, they didn't respond as hot and heavy. But yeah, anytime you get, you know, cops charging into a scenario where they think they might get to or have to, depending on how you feel about it, use their guns. The risk of someone being shot by accident is astronomical.

Yeah. And I'm honestly, I'm kind of shocked that hasn't happened, especially in the cases where, you know, the caller gives a specific suspect description that, you know, puts anybody who vaguely meets that description at great risk. But yeah, I think this is just, you know joker mode nihilism yeah that's that is if i were to like make a raw irresponsible like public guess um not that i don't think this is actually that irresponsible but like we just don't know but that's that's what this that's the the mo this fits best so far is kind of raw. I want to disrupt the system. I want to scare people. And I want to do so in a way that's – the problem with a mass shooting from the perspective of someone like this is that you're going to die or get arrested doing it, right?

That's the way all of them end. And so that limits the number of people who are going to be inspired to carry out a mass shooting. And so that limits the number of people who are going to be inspired to carry out a mass shooting. If you can show that, yeah, people can call in dozens of these fake reports and some of them are going to end violently, then maybe a bunch more people are willing to do that. And the overall level of disruption and chaos that you cause is substantially higher. Right. So it's a relatively low threshold for involvement. Right. You don't have to be ready to die um yeah and maybe you won't get caught although i think because especially in the

minnesota case they're gonna catch somebody governor tim waltz's son goes to mankato high school no i mean the like you you upset the governor's son you're gonna get caught yeah and you did it all from a single like and and i have to suspect the FBI is looking at this. They never, I mean, it's policy. They're never going to confirm that until the point at which like it becomes there's,

it's a big enough story that they kind of have to for PR reasons. But I would be surprised if there was not an investigation at the moment. Every couple of days when one of these regional stories comes out, you know, they'll quote the local FBI field office saying, you know, we're working with local authorities to help them investigate. But the FBI is absolutely investigating this nationwide. There's no chance that they're not. Yeah, it's it's too it's too clear of a pattern. And it's not unprecedented, right, that a couple of years ago there was that Atomwaffen swatting

ring that those guys did go to prison for. Yeah. So it doesn't have to be a lot of guys. This could just be a couple of people. So we're saying we're not seeing this leak out anywhere. It's not being discussed anywhere. It could just be three or four guys. Yeah, it could be four people in a Discord with some like auto-dialing apps that they've either coded

or found somewhere on the internet. Which if they are using some sort of like program to do this that's meant for, I don't know, sketchy salesmen or whatever, there's a decent chance that's what brings them down. Because all of that shit has terrible security. But so does Discord. I don't know. Like, it'll be interesting to see what happens here. I think one of the questions, from the perspective, certainly, of, of like people listening, what can be done here?

Well, on a local level, one thing people can fight for and advocate for, especially if you're involved in local government, is like I would like to know every year how many times the police go to a school over a false report of a shooting, right? How many times are classrooms being cleared? How many times are the being cleared? How many times are the cops showing up for this? Because that's important information. And that also should tailor the way the police are being trained for this and the ways like the, there's a number of things that you should be doing if you know, hey, we had no mass shootings this year, but the cops showed up with guns drawn 45 times, right? That should inform the way you do things in the future in order to minimize the trauma these kids go through.

That's one thing that is an immediate thing people can take and that you can do, people can advocate for locally. Well, I mean, it's a tough line here, right? Because, you know, I think every district is really eager not to be the next Uvalde police department, right? Of course, yes, of course. So they're showing up hot and heavy, They're going right in. They're, you know, knocking down doors and, you know, pointing guns at kids. You know, the video that came out from that classroom in Houston, they frisked several children at gunpoint.

I'm not sure why that, if they were sitting at their desks, they were obviously not committing a mass shooting. Or in Denver on Monday, they evacuated the whole school onto the football field with their hands in the air. Like, was that necessary? Which is horrifying, right.

And I'm not, you know, even as a police abolitionist, I recognize that in the system in which we currently live, there is no response to a school shooting that does not involve the police. That's where we are. But are they doing this smart? Yeah, as a rule, I think everyone can agree that given the current realities of the world we live in,

if a guy is shooting up a school or a rule, I think everyone can agree that given the current realities of the world we live in, if a guy is shooting up a school or a lady, it's good for people with guns to come and stop them. And that's realistically going to be the police in our current system. But that doesn't mean we can't be like, well, okay, they came up 50 times falsely and traumatized all these kids by pointing guns at them on the fucking football field. We should change the way in which they're responding to these. Like, that shouldn't be the default. These are things people can lobby for at a local level. That will have an impact on at least the quality of life for kids in the schools. And for parents, you know, like in Uvalde, there was the parent who, you know,

slipped around the police line and got into the school and got her kid yesterday uh no two days two days ago in san antonio they they had a you know a hoax call somebody called in swat showed up uh and parents showed up because they got the emergency alert text so the parking lot fills with parents a father punched through a window cut his arm up and was handled tackled and handcuffed by the police because he just wanted his fucking kid. Of course. This is going to keep playing out or here on Tuesday at the middle school. I was listening to my scanner after they cleared the buildings, the police left, and then

a call came over the scanner and it said the school is requesting that the police come back to handle the parents. Because parents are angry. Of course they are. So how do we navigate this tension of yes, we need police to respond if there is a school shooting. But how do we as community communities navigate this space where we also don't want them to point guns at our kids? We don't we don't have a lot of trust and communication with our police department, so I don't know if that's a space we can navigate.

This is a problem that has to be adapted to, right? There is the potential, you have this problem, right? Which is that it is apparently easy to weaponize the reporting system for mass shootings. The problem is compounded by the fact that you can't ignore the risk of a mass shooting because kids can die. People will get killed if you are wrong about that. At the same time, it is unreasonable to say that every single time one of these reports happens, if the ratio is hundreds of false reports to one actual shooting, every time it happens, you go and you stick guns in the face of a bunch of kids and you traumatize all these parents who wind up going crazy for understandable reasons. There are structures that can be built into the

system to mitigate those harms, at least. And I think that is, you know, from the perspective of who is doing this and how can they be stopped? That is a question that will be answered either by law enforcement or by independent researchers. But but that's that's a research problem, right? That's a cracking a case problem. My fear is that the response to this will be putting more cops in schools, right? It's, you know, the cop in the school doesn't stop the school shooting. We know that from, you know, empirical evidence. Yeah, from 20 years of data.

In several of these cases, you know, the news story says, you know, dispatch contacted the school resource officer who said, no, I don't see anything. So is the solution going to be put a guy in there who can look? Yeah. He's not going to do anything,

but he's going to, you know, he will say Charlottesville, the city of Charlottesville took our school resource officers out of schools last year, two years ago. Times now. So my fear is that even people who applauded that decision will at this point say maybe we should put him back. Maybe we need a guy in there with a direct line to dispatch. Yeah. And I and maybe we do. I just don't think they need to have, it needs to be a man with a gun who has the ability to arrest children, right? Having, having a first responder on scene at every school who can be the, yes, there actually is a shooting

or no, there's not. Maybe it's a medical training is perhaps a different thing that could happen rather than let's put more armed men in schools, right? Like that, that's not an inherently unreasonable proposition. But I don't know that police are going to be receptive to the idea of, let's ask some questions first, right? Because as I was listening to the scanner, again, you know, I have the most information about the two incidences that were in my neighborhood. I was listening to the scanner on Tuesday and it takes time for cops to arrive at a scene, even in a relatively small town. By the time they had dispatched this response to the scene, they even in a relatively small town by the time they had dispatched this response to the scene they had already spoken to the principal over the fall

they already knew this was not true we'll see and there's another solvable problem because if you're if you're having guys with guns still show up because it's policy when someone at the school has said no there's not a shooting well that again, that is a problem that can be altered or that can be fixed to mitigate harm that seems pretty simple, which is be like, well, maybe if somebody at the, maybe if the school's principal says, no, nothing is happening here,

you don't send the gun guys. Maybe you still send a squad car to check it out for diehard purposes. I'm sure we all remember what that movie has to say about these kinds of problems. But, you purposes, I'm sure we all remember what that movie has to say about these kinds of problems. But, you know, there's a lot that can be done with the information that this is a problem. And to a certain extent, I think I'm hopeful that once this kind of blows up, and I'm certain this well, I'm certain that maybe even by the time this launches there will be some big national stories about this because this is just this is a really substantial problem very obviously is a substantial problem um i hope that one of the things it does is perhaps lead to the authorities taking swatting and threats of swatting and communities that engage

in swatting much more seriously because by God, they have not so far. And it's not the laws about it are not super consistent state to state that, you know, there have been some attempts on the federal level to make, you know, blanket legislation about this specific because, you know, it's illegal to make a false report to the police. It's illegal to make a false 911 call, but to specifically and intentionally weaponize an armed police response because you hope it will hurt someone in most states isn't its own crime. Right. Like I think in California, they have specific legislation that like you can be like financially responsible for whatever it costs to have that response. Yeah. But like there's not uniform agreement that this is a separate crime. This is a separate harm that should be punished in a specific way.

And maybe we'll get that out of this. I don't know that that solves it. But again, it will, like you were saying, that this is a lower barrier to entry crime. But if you up the punishment, maybe that threshold to decide to do it goes up. Yeah. Yeah.

Again, I think there's a variety of things that can be done now that we know this is a problem. And one of the reasons why I think this is important for us to cover on a show like this is a lot of these are like advocate for changes in how the school handles this sort of thing. Like that is a thing that people can handle locally. And that is, you'll get a faster response handling it locally as well than you will trying to advocate for some sort of big national swatting law. And you're going to get faster and better results changing local departmental policy than you will getting any law that changes how the police behave.

That's highly unlikely. Yeah. And so I think this is important. I think it's important for people to engage with this from the perspective of like, we don't know why this is happening or who is doing it yet. And it may be a while before. I'm certain we will find out at some point. These people will get caught. And it may be a while before.

I'm certain we will find out at some point. These people will get caught. But it almost doesn't matter because the system is so easy to weaponize. The solution is to try to find ways to make it less harmful without reducing the ability of people with guns to show up if they need to to stop someone who's murdering kids. Right? Those are the two things that need to be done. Not reduce the efficacy of the system, which is not very good, to be honest,

at stopping mass shootings. And it's piss poor at that. So it would be hard to make it worse. I will say when people talk about, well, what happens if they, well, they're bad at it now. They're terrible at it now. So it's not like,

I'm not worried about making a change to like mitigate the response of swattings in this instance, harming kids, because as it is, the system almost never saves them when there is an actual mass shooting. So simply reducing the amount of time that kids have cops pull guns on them in these false reports, that's more of a priority to me than anything else. Yeah, when we're talking about the issue of swatting and I think there, again, there's just, there's things that can be done there. Molly, is there anything else you wanted to get to on this, on this subject? No, I think that covers it. I just, um, this is still happening. It's happening today. Like it's, it is still ongoing.

This phenomenon is ongoing and I think it will continue to build until it hits a breaking point like you said i i definitely think some of these people will be caught yes but i don't know what that changes right like once this breaks containment once people see that this is a thing that they could do yeah um yeah do we do we deal with a wave of this before it gets under control that gets even bigger um or is that what's actually happening right now i don't know and does this and does this i don't know desensitize people to the idea of these threats yeah i don't know i don't know but you know no kids get shot i hope no kids get shot uh if you're a journalist and you're trying to you are trying to report on this in some sort of concerted way,

you can find Molly on Twitter at Socialist Dog Mom. She's done, she's written most of your article for you. You can steal, like, I don't want to tell people to steal your work, but yeah. I think it's important to tell them,

ask the right questions, right? Like when you're, you know, when you're getting your three questions into the press conference with the local sheriff's office, ask specifically, where did the call come in? What number was dialed by the caller? Yeah. Right. Because I don't think these are 911 calls. I think people are using 911 as shorthand. So ask where the call came from, the substance of the call.

Because I think, I imagine that some of these calls are verbatim and we just don't know that. I think some of them are probably identical and we just don't have any way of it's hard to connect the dots when the police won't tell us. So I think if, you know, if journalists are listening, ask more questions than you got in the press release. That's critical, because if there were if there was a if there was a Virginia state like repository where every time we get a false swatting attempt against a school

we report when it came in who was called and what was said over the call right um all of which are things that they could pretty easily get because this shit is always recorded um i don't know that that's true though and that's that's another sort of tactical thing right 9-1- 911 calls are recorded but if you call the front desk at the police station it probably isn't that is a fucking good point um in any case that is another thing that could be dealt with because then you would at least be able to see oh there's 40 swatting attempts in the state in the last five days and 38 of them it was the exact same script there's probably a single source of this that we should be like looking at. And that can help not just law enforcement,

who's generally bad at these sort of investigations, but people like you who are good at these sort of investigations and can maybe then start doing keyword searches and figure out where the fuck this stuff is originating from. If it's anywhere on the semi-open internet. Again, things there's a lot to be done to respond to this problem that that doesn't start with like throwing more cops at it or or or whatever like there's

there's a number of different problems that this has revealed um so hopefully those get solved anyway molly you got anything else to plug before we go oh defund your local police department yeah subscribe to your local newspaper sure um and uh yeah if uh if you're at a school right now good good luck those poor fucking kids yeah they are really the kids these days are dealing with a lot. I'm more grateful every year that my my childhood was as uneventful as it was because boy howdy is it rough to be a student today. And they still have to take their tests. They still have to take their fucking tests.

Yeah, they have to go to school. They got to read the Great Gatsby while this is going on. Unbelievable. Sorry, kids. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me as the fire and dare enter? Nocturnal. Tales from the Shadowsadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora.

An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows

as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if

we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh.

And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to who he belongs with. His father in Cuba.

Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me

in a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life.

Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's It Could Happen Here here the podcast that we open sometimes yes this is this is this is how we do this job um it is it is also a podcast that is very very often about strikes and somewhat surprisingly this is this is an episode that is not about the giant rail strike that everyone was focused on that didn't happen. And the reason it's not about, okay, I mean, obviously it's not about that because it didn't happen. But the other reason it's not about that is that there was another giant strike that was really, I think, ignored by both sort of the media and the people who normally would be following strikes that was

happening at about the same time. And that is a massive 15 000 person nurses strike uh up up up in wisconsin and to talk with us about that wait did i say that right minnesota did i did i did i confuse wisconsin and minnesota oh my god i always do this they did threaten a strike you are yeah oh god for different reasons i don't there's some part of my brain that never quite like figured out which one was wisconsin and which one was minnesota and it just like flips them in my mind they're just like they're just the state that's sort of over there from illinois i know it's the midwest this is an accursed place which again i don't i don't really have an excuse because like i'm from here. Like I've lived not

in the Midwest for like six months now. Wow. Okay. Like a year of my life when I was like unbelievably small child. But yeah, it is. Yeah, there's been a bunch of strikes in Minnesota. And with me to talk about the strikes that are not happening in Wisconsin is Danielle, who is a nurse at Methodist Hospital and a steward for the Minnesota Nurses Association. Danielle, welcome to the show. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Yeah, thank you. Thank you for coming on. Okay, so I guess the first thing that I want to talk about is the kind of strike that you all were doing because this is something that i i've seen a lot with nurses strikes but i don't think people who aren't in nurses unions

like talk about very much which is basically doing a three-day strike or doing a strike that's for for a set number of days but it's not indefinite um and i wanted to ask about that specifically as a tactic a bit. Yeah, absolutely. It's not uncommon in the healthcare sector at all to do one day, two day, three day, five day, seven day strikes. We usually leave like an open-ended strike for kind of a last-ditch effort to get the employer's attention. So there's a lot to coordinate to compensate for a three-day strike. It affects everyone's job at the hospital.

And then after three days, they have to flip everything back. That type of disruption in capital is, um, has been really effective, um, across the nation. So we're hoping that they hear us loud and proud, but it's challenging. They have a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah. have a lot of money yeah yeah and i i think from what i've talked to other nurses about this strike and also other people have done nurses strikes is that like there's like a huge pool of

scabs yeah which makes things really hard and i is is it is it the case that part of the reason why you do one of these limited strikes is that it's it's a lot harder for them to coordinate like bringing in scabs for a limited amount of time than it would be for like hiring them full-time for a indefinite strike yeah exactly so travel nurses i mean they are those strike nurses come in strictly just for those three days they are oriented for you know a few hours prior to starting at 7am on Monday. Um, so there's not a lot of time to learn the entire facility. And since we are gone, the only ones left to orientate our managers or any, um, nurses that have to stay for whatever reason, we really didn't have many at all across the line um so it just compromises um patient safety and care in general yeah yeah there's no way to create teamwork with

just three days of brand new nurses um so just um the hospital is just more accountable for system errors. They try to keep those issues as internal as possible and not disclose them to the public. But yeah, there's a lot that happened. You know, it's funny. All the media reports are like, we're just like straight up printing press releases being like, there have been no internal disruptions. I'm like, I don't believe that. Like, there's no way there's like it's just not true they are just lying so lying and to prepare for us to go on strike i mean they tried their hardest to discharge as many patients as possible sunday prior to our strike to empty out hospitals the

thing is like you can't, you're not a magician. You can't make sick people go away. There was a lot of readmissions because of that. You're discharging people too quickly. I know at the children's hospitals, they actually like shuttled 44 children out to other surrounding hospitals to, because they couldn't get enough travelers to work. You can't get 15,000 travelers.

So that's what they did to try to undermine us. It's a lot of moving things around. And I am hoping the public, there's an uproar with the public about this. Cause that's, I don't know who's paying for, you know, the cost of shipping kids to different hospitals. Yeah. I assume the hospital is not going to pay for it.

Yeah. Oh, God. So, yeah, I guess we should move into, like, how we got to the point where 15,000 nurses went on strike, which I think, I mean, it's certainly the largest nurse strike in the private sector I can remember. I think it's one of the largest the US has ever had. Yeah. Yeah, it is. hear about like what the u.s health care system looks like in year two of this plague in the sector that's already been sort of just decimated by like incredibly venal profit-seeking greedy corporations but yeah yeah so what what what what what have been the conditions that have been

leading up to this strike that got this many people off of the line? I mean, our healthcare system has been unstable for quite some time. Hospitals have been consolidating so much, like closing clinics and facilities just to maximize profit. It's like their whole goal is kind of like how airlines overbook for flights they create like an artificial hospital beds shortage in order to maximize profit so they've been doing that for years and then also just buying up little hospitals to control the market more um they've also are starting their own insurance companies just to double dip in the community's wallets. So that's been going on prior to the pandemic.

Pandemic hit. They were not ready. They didn't have enough PPE at all because it's not there's no. It's not financially incentivized to have extra PPE on hand. That's their logic. I remember in the beginning of the pandemic, like my, my aunt and uncle work for a hospital and like,

we were trying to get the masks and like, we wound up like, we were like doing contracts with like, like my, like literally my family in China was like, I know a guy who knows a guy who has a mass manufacturing thing. It was, oh, God. It was so grim.

It was, yeah, it was a mess. And we didn't have enough PPE. We had to reuse stuff constantly. And we were never compensated for it either. We just were forced to work harder and longer, um, for the same pay. And now hospitals are trying to normalize that staffing, um, shortage and say, well, that's it. That's, you know, so you just have to work with what we're giving you. And this shortage is just, it's causing unnecessary medical errors and deaths and it's just a disservice to our community. Yeah, it's going kind of down a dark path. So I think all of that during the pandemic, hospitals really showed their true colors. And I know the nurses really realized that

the hospital is only there to just like fatten their wallets. They're not there for us. They're not. The goal is to make us all leave the bedside and just outsource all of their employees. You would escape all liabilities if you have all travelers in place. There's no real incentive to hold the hospital accountable for institutional failures. Can you explain what travelers are for the audience people who may not know? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So travel nurses come across the entire nation, and they are contracted through travel companies that work with hospitals. So if there's a nursing shortage, there will be open positions to apply for those contract positions that are short-term.

to apply for those contract positions that are like short term. So either like a four week, six week, or if it's like a strike contract, it'd be like three days, seven days, whatever it might be. And they're paid handsomely. I know for our three day strike, those travel nurses, those strike nurses specifically for three days made 10K each. Jesus. For three days. And they didn't even know the facility. Some of them never even worked in a hospital.

Jesus. I don't understand the requirements. It's confusing how, yeah. And I'm not trying to demonize travel nurses in any sort of way. There's amazing travel nurses. I've worked with some. They're great people, but they're it just undermines like our profession. Like it's it's hard to improve our profession when you have people that can replace you. There's no real change we can make. It's just, we're fighting each other. And travel nurses are independent contractors? Yeah, exactly. So the hospital doesn't pay them benefits. They don't take vacation. They don't call in sick. They save the employer a lot of money because they don't have to provide any hospital resources such as like employee health or workers compensation or anything like that yeah and they just have that

six-week contract that they focus on and they they're definitely paid their worth there's less liability on the hospital too if there's any medical errors it's easier to like blame the travel nurse instead of blaming like institutional failures um travel nurses they just they can't unionize there's just not a way there's not like a common area for them to come together and yeah create a union so that that's the hospitals like that. Yeah. Also, when you have more travel nurses at a hospital, that's less funding that can go to our union. So like we pay union dues every month. Yeah.

And if hospitals are hiring more travel nurses our union gets less funding less power sadly okay uh do you do you know who else wants everyone to work as contract workers so they can't unionize ever it's it's the products and services that support this show and we're back so all right i guess moving on from that well okay i guess i guess before we fully move on to talking about how the strike was sort of organized um can we talk a little bit more about what staffing shortage just looks like and what what the effect that has on patients is because i think people like i think people this is something people like kind of conceptually understand but don't like viscerally get what it means to have a staffing shortage in a hospital

um so with inadequate inadequate nursing um staffing levels um by experienced nurses, there's an increased rate of patient falls, infections, medical errors, increase in deaths, increase in pressure ulcers, increase in readmission rates. So having to go back to the hospital because you weren't given like high quality care at the hospital, it was just kind of mediocre. If nurses are kind of strapped with time and have to divide their attention between too many patients. So I don't know if you actually are legally allowed to say this, but like how many patients like per day roughly are like roughly, are you treating? How many patients are we treating a day?

Our hospital at Methodist has about 400 beds, and we've been at capacity, so above 100%. And you're probably wondering, well, how do you get above 100%? So above 100%. And you're probably wondering, well, how do you get above 100%? The ER will board patients, meaning a patient will stay on a cart and they'll be in a hallway. And the hallways will be lined up with patients that are just waiting for other patients and other units to be discharged so they can take that bed. So they can wait in the ER for up to two to three days, just waiting to be like really admitted. So we've been at capacity for a long time and that is,

that is purposely done to maximize profit just because of they've been consolidating closing other hospitals um and other neighborhoods like they're like they're charging all those people who are just like laying there in a hallway right absolutely or even um if people come in for surgery and they have to, after surgery, they go to recovery. They can sit in recovery for up to eight hours, which normally after surgery, you only need to be there like a half hour to an hour, kind of depending on how you wake up from anesthesia. And then you go to your room, but we are just holding them in recovery because we're waiting on beds and

rooms to be available because the hospital does not plan in advance at all that's not cost effective yeah well i mean it's funny because it's like it's it really seems it's one of those things where it's like literally this entire process would be enormously less expensive if you hired like four more people and didn't close every hospital around you but like you know it's not it's not about efficiency it's about like making sure you have as many dying people like sitting in a hallway so

you can charge them more it's like oh exactly sick people are profitable and not healthy people yeah yeah I mean it's really it it's like there's just something like sort of particularly venal and disgusting about here it's like you know it's it's all of the same like okay well we we've we've built up a monopoly and we're using a monopoly to force everyone to use our services and then we're you know we're using contract workers to replace the people who normally do the jobs but it's like

well it's with health care and it's like instead of just like every tv show being awful it's here's a bunch of people who are getting sick and dying because we just don't have enough nurses exactly and then the only thing the hospitals do um is um they have all the managers go around and tell nurses okay today we gotta flex up they'll use terminology like that that sounds like empowering and like strong man we gotta flex up today meaning we want you to take more patients than you like safely can um meaning like if you're if you work on a medical surgical unit it's usually like four to five patients is what's recommended for one nurse to have for 12 hours. They'll ask you to take six or seven. Jesus.

And they'll call it flexing up. And they're like, well, yeah, but Bob over there is flexing up. Why aren't you flexing up? And it's just, it's that type of like corporate speak and empowerment language that forces us

to risk our license. Yeah. And I think one of the, of the the consequences of this that i mean it's really obvious if you've been following sector at all is that okay well it turns out if you if you work a bunch of people like basically to death and you don't give them enough resources you're making them take too many patients uh it's that people just start quitting exactly and yeah can you talk a bit about sort of the shortage that's been happening because of that too?

Because that's, I think, a really bleak, just in the long term too. It's just, I don't know, like if you want to have an even vaguely functioning society, the fact that you can't keep people as nurses is really bad. Absolutely. Yeah. Pandemic hit and nurses realized that they're not being paid their worth. There's travel jobs that you can make 200 grand a year, 300 grand a year, just doing travel nursing.

And then they're kind of sold on the idea that you own your schedule and you can just kind of plan around vacations and other times off you need and you just kind of book like a four-week stint at a hospital if you don't like it you can leave um so they kind of just sell our jobs back to us, but it's not good health care. Yeah, it's like, you know, I've talked about this with like, like people who work at Starbucks, for example, or it's like, well, okay, like if you're just constantly moving people around and nobody's like actually stays at a place and you never you never build up a community of people who you're working with, like your cares, you know, it's like, okay, well, you're not going to get good stuff. But it's like, yeah, like this is like, like this is people's lives. Yeah, exactly. And those travel, travel nurses, I mean, their, their goals are usually like financial freedom, like all of our goals. So, and their goals are always short term. You know,

all I have to do is just deal with this hospital for four weeks and then I'm gone. Well, how is that going to fix any institutional errors? I mean, or issues there? I mean, they never will hold the employer accountable. Yeah. And especially like it seems like, you know, even if like everyone, well, okay, like I don't think you could have a functional hospital system if everyone was a travel nurse. But at some point, it feels like there's no way for people to keep leaving hospitals to go be travel nurses and also for travel nurses pay to stay that high. Yeah, exactly. Eventually, it'll get saturated.

And that's kind of the goal of hospitals is to push all of their permanent employees into traveling. So once that industry becomes saturated, then you can decrease wages and we'd have to compete amongst each other for certain jobs with certain hours that we need or whatever. We'll just be, it's just a race to the bottom. We're just going to, yeah.

Yeah. Then the employer will control the market and it's. Yeah. And I can't imagine 20 years from now trying to be a travel nurse. It's just going to be hard to compete with those younger people that are, that could work harder and faster and longer than me for less money. It's not sustainable for our career. Yeah, it just doesn't seem like a good way to do healthcare.

Yeah, that also, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, so I guess the next thing I want to talk about in terms of, okay, so how do we make this better is about, yeah, this is a very large multi-hospital strike across multiple cities, which is a really impressive thing to pull off. I was wondering if you could talk about how that happened. pushed a lot of nurses to want to fight for change. Um, and I think that it all started there. We all started coming together with the same issues and problems and, um, yeah, finally just started organizing more. Um, all these hospitals were currently unionized, but, um, some were more like involved in their union than others. Um, i'd say now a lot of nurses are more involved in the union and it's a lot of younger nurses too um just because they're people are finally

realizing that we are the union it's not a separate entity from us it's something that we can control and be a part of and be able to use it to balance power um so it just yeah it's our only way to fight um this health care sector i also want to ask about what the negotiation process has been like because i mean five months is i mean you know okay like that you very rarely get fast contracts when you're dealing with bosses but yeah like the the contract negotiation process seems to have been really bad even by sort of like regular contract negotiation standards yeah for sure i i mean the our negotiations we probably have negotiations like once a week once every other week um and the hospital shows up with five of their like elites that just hide behind a corporate lawyer who is just a union busting

lawyer and all they do is just gaslight and demonize us and say well the hospital staffing shortage is your fault because you guys are calling and sick too much or i mean they just turn everything around to blame the nurses it's very demoralizing it's um we feel very just underappreciated especially with everything we've gone through with the pandemic and they've just been dismissive of what we're um what our needs are and especially like like the the like the calling in sick too much it's like well yeah okay maybe your nurses wouldn't be getting sick if you weren't making them work with no people like without adequate ppe in a pandemic like jesus christ oh it's just it's just comical the arguments that they have

i know and like we don't we can't ever get vacation that we're asking for i mean yeah one of one of our proposals is just to get a two-week block vacation for every nurse in the hospital guaranteed every year um because we don't even get that we we have a cap on our vacation hours and then we get denied our vacation constantly people call in sick because we need a day off we need a break yeah we're burnt out like yeah yeah like okay like if you have vacation hours but you can't use them you don't actually have them like it's it's not, it's not how this works. Exactly. Yeah.

It's, it's a benefit they control. Yeah. What, what are the things that I've been reading about that y'all been fighting for that? It's really interesting to me because it's something I've seen in a few other struggles kind of proposed,

but never like really like put in the center of the thing is talking about like like giving giving workers a role in staffing decisions yeah yes yeah can you talk about that because that that's really interesting to me yeah absolutely so um i mean currently we don't own our profession. We have no say in staffing ratios. The hospitals decide what is safe care and they're doing it absolutely wrong. Yeah. So we want to be able to take that back and control that and to say this is what we

need because our patients are sicker um they're staying longer in the hospital and in order to provide safer care we you know these need this many nurses for this many patients um so would that be on like a sort of like okay you like you have a negotiation you said this is this is like the the like this is just a ratio or is this like a data is this an individual day-to-day thing um yeah i'm wondering how this would work yeah um right now let's see i know we are asking for like a committee that's made up of i mean administrative staff but also nurses but we want the nurses to be able to have the power to implement policies and change um if they think it needs to be done. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so it would be like a grid review. I think it's yearly is what we're asking for.

Um, but can be up to quarterly if need be kind of just depending on, um, what we're hearing from other employees on other units. Um, so I, I think it's kind of like on a a week-to-week evaluation to see what's working and what's not um i know the hospital's argument for that is it would take nurses away from the bedside but in reality that doesn't make any sense in reality it would retain staff yeah well and also okay it's like oh no we've we've taken a nurse away from the bedside for one hour to go

to a committee meeting where they say we we could put more nurses in like what exactly and like we want this committee like made outside of um like that like those nurses schedules and then we also want them to be paid for their time yeah hospital disagrees with all of that they don't even want to pay nurses for their time to create safe staffing ratios yeah issues yeah it's hard so like the people that are in power they're just a bunch of narcissists yeah that's all they are um and that's the only way to remain in power is to have no empathy for your employees so that is what we're up against so every negotiation i feel like i'm just arguing with a two-year-old yeah i mean it really like it they they really seem like a kind of people who you can only actually like the only language they understand is power and like the only way you can get to invest some of anything is just like you're whacking them over the head with it which i was like david graper had this thing about um it wasn't him i think he had this thing about how like the i'm trying to think of how he actually phrased it it was basically like okay if if you

have a lot of like if you have it in like a large amount of actual physical power over someone you don't need to like use eloquent arguments at all you can just sort of like tell them what to do and they have to do it and like the the less actual physical power you have the more you have to sort of like use argumentation to like convince people to do things and this this really seems like the peak of here are a bunch of people who have been so powerful for so long they they don't even like they don't even know how to like make a compelling argument because they've never had to all all they all they've ever had to do is use brute force

and it like sucks trying to use like logic and reason against people who like by design don't know and don't want to know how to do this because if if they if they're ever in a position where they have to it means that their power has been diminished exactly well and also nurses like we're natural people pleasers we're like kind of a we can be a little more submissive and we've been like that for years and we're finally standing up for ourselves and they really don't have arguments. Yeah. I mean, it's like they're killing people.

It's like they are killing people for money. There's not actual moral justifications here. Exactly. I know. Yeah. It's just, God, what a terrible way to run a healthcare system. Like, just, oh. I know. god what what a terrible way to run a health care system like just oh i know and um i know a lot of hospitals are getting more into like creating executive care and executive hospitals executive

clinics and which all that is is just a hospital that is just dedicated to exact like the elites and you would pay that hospital like a country club membership so like 200 grand a year or whatever it's they're not going to take medicare they're not going to take medicaid um it'll be strictly out of pocket not insurance out of pocket um money and you can just get all of the care you need at that one facility um it'll have all specialties you can see them same day you can text your doctor it's just health care that's just on demand and readily available for those people that can pay it i know i mean meanwhile everyone else is like waiting 17 hours with like a hole in them in a hallway. Exactly.

Like Fairview is one of the hospital chains in Minnesota, and they're creating a thousand bed hospital for the ultra elite. They're going to be doing that soon. And then they're also bargaining with the nurses and saying that they don't have money to pay them raises they don't have money to give them family leave they don't have money to um create better staffing models you know and one of the things i keep hearing about this is they're like oh like the rich hospitals will subsidize the ones that don't make money it's like no they won't like you're just gonna you're just going to keep all of that money and continue not funding the poorer hospitals like you you won't you already do this you can't actually fool anyone who has spent more than

two seconds like looking at how this works exactly i know i know they're gonna prioritize those executive hospitals and just funnel all their money and resources that direction it'll for sure be non-union and they will push so much non-union propaganda at those facilities too yeah it sucks it does suck i know and just a lot of people don't know about it it's kind of scary what we're what we're heading towards and that's that's that's what we're fighting for or fighting against and i mean i will say like i i do feel like like a lot of the i don't know i've been thinking about this a lot with like what happened in 2020 and like why that kind of thing happens and i think a lot of like okay there is an extent to which people sort of don't care about violence there's

an extent to which people like are able to sort of like rationalize it but but i i think there is an extent to which like the average person on the street has no idea this is happening until they're like sitting in a hospital room and then they don't understand why it's happening and so i think yeah like i i i don't this. This is not an acceptable state of affairs. And I think, I don't know, like the the the when people start to fight back and the more people like actually know about what is happening, I think it's going to be like hopefully it will become harder and harder for them to do this stuff because, you know, hey, like, yeah, people are literally dying and being like previously injured because the hospital refuses to pay more. Exactly. No, they just the hospitals just push that propaganda that they're underfunded. They can't afford staff. They can't afford this.

And there's a nursing shortage and there's nothing they can do about it. And it's actually there's not a nursing shortage at all. there's a shortage of nurses that want to deal with this shit yeah they're just leaving the bedside for better jobs i think the thing i wanted to sort of start closing on is about like okay like there is there is some negotiation going on about pay raises because hey guess what inflation is happening etc etc. But the extent to which the negotiations aren't about pay, because this is something we've been seeing. lot of places it's been a thing that's been driving people out of the workplace just everywhere is that yeah like it's like this strike isn't really like if i i think it like i don't know okay tell me if this is wrong i i don't think the strike would have happened if it had just been people not getting paid enough like i i think if there was adequate staffing and i think if there was like if people weren't being forced to take more patients, like there wouldn't be a strike right now or there wouldn't have been a

strike. Yeah, possibly. Yeah, for sure. I think, um, we're definitely not paid our worth, but also that's not all we want. There's definitely way more to it. Um, yeah, it's, um, we just, we want to reclaim our profession yeah like it seems like it really seems like they're like this the stuff that's happening and i think sort of broadly like is like it's not just sort of about competition it's about the fact that for i mean my entire lifetime for like 25 years like before that like employers have had almost unlimited power and they've used their

almost unlimited power to just make everyone's lives absolute like living hell and they've used it to sort of like just to force to force people to work hours that are like unbelievable to force people to like you know like like force people to work hours that are unbelievable, to force people to stand there with cans so they can pee in too while they're still on an assembly line. There's unbelievably horrible and degrading stuff that's

like, no, you can't actually just fix this with higher wages. You actually have to change. Something actually has to change about how the workplace works because otherwise people are just going to stop. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I know one of our proposals, we want to work a max of three 12 hour shifts in a row because right now our

contract says we can't work more than seven 12 hour shifts in a row. Because right now our contract says we can't work more than seven 12-hour shifts in a row. And we obviously, that is way too much. And that's something that we just- I mean, even three is like, like this is the everything, like every single time I read one of these things, it's like, okay, like, hey, I like, yeah, okay. We want for only one of our fingers

to be cut off per shift instead of four and it's like this is like oh god it's like the demands are incredibly reasonable considering what you're being asked to do like jesus i don't know oh yeah we want the hospitals to have six months of ppe on hand at all times they've already declined that yeah i was like oh who who needs ppe like really everywhere the supply chain is like oh who who needs to have uh who needs to have like uh stories of critical spare parts no one this this will never come back to haunt us we will never be in a position where we suddenly don't have the spare parts we need oh my god yeah I know. We have a pandemic proposal. We want to pass. And that's just to give the nurses the power to decide what we need when another pandemic hits.

To provide safe care and safety for ourselves. Yeah, the hospital didn't include us on any decisions during the pandemic it was yeah we were just used and abused yeah and um we had to use our own sick time and vacation if we were exposed or if we had quarantines or were diagnosed with covid. Yeah, which also, I wonder, like, did you get COVID while this was happening? I only had it once that I know of, yeah. I mean, that, okay,

only had it once is like, I don't know anyone who worked as a nurse who didn't get COVID at least once, and most of them got it at least twice. Like, just, I, God, I don't know know it's just so bleak like it's just i know and it just depended on like your patient population i'm in surgery so i'm a little more um like guarded from that um covid population you know we only did surgery if if um they really needed it done and if they were positive for covid so we kind of got to pick

and choose a little bit um but other nurses obviously they could not avoid covid yeah yeah yeah i don't it's just god like i can't just like just this is just the worst possible way you can run a medical system and it's just i know i know and i know like i know and um let's see sanford is another big um hospital joint giant that's like in South Dakota, North Dakota, and I'm from South Dakota. So this kind of all like really hits home for me is they're hiring 700 foreign nurses like from Venezuela, Mexico, wherever. As like they're pretty much using them as travel, just to avoid actual travel nurses here. Um, they will bring them here, um, by 2025 and they'll sign like a three-year contract. Um, the hospital will provide housing for them and they will drop wages significantly in the nursing world, especially in South Dakota and North Dakota. They are definitely not going to be paid their worth.

I know they're going to be exploited more than we are. I had family, like the aunt and uncle I was talking about who were doctors, like were in North Dakota for a bit. And they were just like like this is the worst and they like they left for like like they left for a vast improvement and being in a hospital in nebraska which is like you know yeah and i also like i i want to talk about this a little bit because this is like a this is a huge thing with the philippines too where like there's there's like there are whole industries of like basically training people and then shipping them to the u.s so they can be like just horribly exploited um and that's been like one of the things that's been like i don't know like bolstering the profits of the medical sector for a long time is the ability to just like import people and exploit them and yeah and like the fact that they're like oh god this is some like the the the

the fact that these people are going to be like living in like houses that are owned by their bosses is some real like yeah gilded age shit yeah i mean well i mean the the thing the thing that most like this is this is like standard practice in china for example and it's a disaster like i like i i don't know i don't know if people have ever like actually seen pictures of what the inside of these dormitories look like but like it is like these are you you get a room that is like smaller than a college dorm room that doesn't have air conditioning that like i don't know like i i we talked about on this show like the uh we talked about a worker like a couple of weeks ago who like died from the heat wave because when he came home i mean he'd been working a bunch of shifts and he had to work like he had to work a shift in like 104 degrees like

loading stuff onto a train and he came back home and there was no air conditioning and he's in this tiny apartment he died in his bed because you know it was too hot and like like this is the kind of stuff that happens especially when you have like like when when you're sleeping in corporate dormitories and we're sleeping in a place that like your boss owns like this is the shit that happens and it's really really bleak and i i hope these people are able to unionize and like fight their bosses but like yeah i don't know it yeah well i mean fear of being exiled i i highly doubt they're going to be able to unionize yeah because yeah because i'm guessing everything like like the way the visa process works right

like it's really easy to like if someone's here on a work visa and then suddenly you're like oh hey i want to unionize it's like well nope screw you you don't have a job anymore we're gonna we're gonna get you deported and that's exactly yeah exactly which i mean i guess it's it's it's you know it's it's another one of those things where like like we all all of the different sort of disparate like fights people are having are connected like like this this this wouldn't be happening like if if we didn't have the sort of border regime that we have right now like okay the immigration system wasn't just like you know and like and it just like if it wasn't just like a giant like torture machine for millions of people the stuff wouldn't be happening if we weren't in this sort of moments of like you know if we

weren't in a moment where with the power of unions has been collapsing for decades like if we weren't in if we weren't in a place where like i mean even even even sort of like on on on the level of obama going like we're not gonna like we're gonna make our health care system worse because it will cost insurance jobs if we make it any better like it's just like oh yeah it's like like i feel like i feel like the medical sector is like like people working in health care is like it's one of these places where just like every possible it's kind of it's kind of like prisons where it's like like everything that's gone wrong in our society just like gets focused into like one nexus point and it's the point where

people have to go where they die i know and the only thing that's holding hospitals accountable are unions in this country yeah if there was no unions the wages would be much lower and i don't even know where health care would be right now yeah i don't know like not good i mean like i i keep i keep going back to china because it's like that's like the other health care system that's a disaster that like i have family and it's like well i guess this is the thing that's been happening in the u.s too of like with the increasing violence against staff but like china has a huge like a huge problem with basically riots breaking out because people like someone's family member dies because their their care was really bad and so

they'll just be like a riot and people will go attack the doctors and it's like yeah and it's like okay like i i get why they're doing this but it's like it sucks and this is this is a huge problem they've had with with retention because their numbers are like their their like their staff to patient ratios are unreal awful and yeah and like you know like that that kind of stuff makes healthcare systems fall apart absolutely yeah like and that's yeah and that's kind of like they've been doing that here i mean hospitals have been demonizing nurses instead of like actually saying that they do have institutional failures and it's their fault and we're only as strong as like the safety protocols and policies that are in place yeah and like i mean the like the best nurse in the world can't be three nurses

like yeah exactly yeah yeah and um yeah so if they kind of do this foreign nursing deal um i mean south dakota north dakota they're right to work states so they it's almost impossible to unionize you can but it's it takes a lot of work uh yeah but when most of your staff is already travelers like I was told by um another nurse like in North Dakota Sanford their staff is 80 travelers well how the hell can you even attempt to unionize and that's that's the goal of hospitals is just to create so much turnover where yeah well i mean it's just yes it's turning hospitals into amazon which the system editoriously works great like it's oh exactly and travelers um are less likely to speak up because they're just afraid of their contract being canceled or they're going to be blacklisted.

And blacklisted just means like there is a common website that all hospitals will go on just to look at travel nurses that are recommended not to call or not to give a contract to. Jesus. Yeah, exactly. call or not to um give a contract to jesus yeah exactly so and you can blacklist a nurse for any reason um yeah and the reasons are not disclosed it just says do not call next to that name well that completely ruins their travel career yeah it's like it's amazing it's so formalized like i i know people have been blacklisted from other professions but it's like it's amazing it's so formalized like i i know people have been blacklisted from other professions but it was like very like it was kind of an under the table thing this is just like not at all we're we were literally going to put your name on a on like a list that everyone

just has like oh god yeah exactly i know so if there is there is safety issues at a hospital, those nurses are less likely to speak up and they're less likely to even leave their contract because they're afraid of retaliation like that. It just incentivizes just terrible care. Yeah. Okay. We have now spent an enormous amount of time talking about how unbelievably messed up this whole system is. What can people do to A, help this strike and B, help with contract negotiations and B, just in general, try to fight for better healthcare for people? I know I've been asked that a lot too. We do have a website with M&A, Minnesota Nursing Association, where we do like to have people share their stories about surprise bills or firsthand experiences with understaffing, et cetera. And that's something like we've just been kind of collecting stories just so we can kind of keep exposing the corruption. Also donating to our strike fund is always much appreciated. Yeah, yeah. We'll put a link to that in the description. Absolutely.

Yeah. It's how you create change. It's just public pressure. Yeah. Do you have anything else that you want to say? I don't think so. I don't think so. I feel like I covered a lot.

Cool. Yeah. I just wanted to bring awareness to this topic. Yeah. Thank you so much for bringing on the show and for talking to us about this, because, yeah, this is definitely something that people need to hear. And I'm really glad you were able to join us. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah, this has been Nick It Happened Here, a podcast by Koolzone Media and I guess also iHeart.

Yeah, you can find us in the usual places. Yeah, make the world a better place for nurses and a worse place for hospital executives welcome i'm danny thrill won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters, to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures.

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I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy

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It's not October yet, but this is a preview of kind of how I'll be recording certain things when Halloween gets nearer. So I'm done with my work for the day. The rest of you can take over now. I guess that's me. Hi. It's me. It's Christopher Christopher What is this episode about Christopher

Is it about Halloween No this is about a thing that did not happen Somewhere else which I guess is slightly Off kilter for us but Yeah also with me Is Garrison and Shireen And Sophie Yeah

Excellent alright seems like the episode started good work everybody all right we did it we got there we've gotten through the introduction now we can get to uh a conspiracy theory that's been like all over twitter but not kind of in the usual places where you'd expect a conspiracy theory to be on twitter and that is this whole thing where an enormous number of people were convinced that xi jinping had been ousted in on twitter and that is this whole thing where an enormous number of people were convinced that xi jinping had been ousted in a coup and that he was being held by the army under house arrest and okay so we're recording this on the 27th um earlier today i think xi jinping like reappeared and it you know we had the final definitive proof that he had not in fact been like disappeared by the chinese army yeah yeah i remember the the way i encountered this was

twitter informingly that people were like discussing it and i spent like three seconds looking at what accounts were saying that xi jinping was being fucking cooed and it was all like um i don't know uh anime tit goblin 423 uh yeah like like analyzing satellite photos and stuff like no we don't i'm just gonna i'm just gonna wait to hear what's up with this one anime tit goblin that's great yeah someone actually did like a sorry uh like a um like a word cloud of uh yeah like a network map of who was spreading it and it was accounts with names like that yeah i believe you and i mean and it has spawned like articles from al jazeera snow oh it's it's way worse than that it's way worse than that like okay i will skip ahead a slight bit to the place we were at two days ago was a Republic Media Network, which is like was one of the biggest news networks in India.

I saw some I saw a source claiming they get one hundred and fifty five million views a week. Yeah, because literally in India, it's like the biggest in the world. Yeah, they they were literally running a China Watchers parody tweet. They were literally running a China Watchers parody tweet. Like, he had a tweet. The China Watcher guy had a thread that was, like, him making fun of it. That was, like, him walking to, like, random empty places and being like, this is a coup. And they, like, they straight up ran, like, his tweets, like, as a news story about the coup.

Like, unreal bullshit. Like, I, oh, boy. Well, this is, again, a point we make regularly on all of our shows. But, like, you can't have that kind of fun anymore. Like, it just immediately gets picked up and weaponized. Like, making jokes about, like, fake, oh, yeah, idiots are spreading bullshit about a coup. I'm going to make fake coup news. Well, congratulations. Now you've convinced a third of India that there's a coup in China.

Yeah. And, like, I think, like, the China Watchers, I think, were like, because, okay, and this is the thing where there are very specific China watch people I am very mad at because when they were interviewed by the press or when they were writing about it, they were like, well, a coup could kind of be plausible, but it's not happening. It's like, no, no, it's not. It is not. I'm sorry. It is a joke. Anyone who actually plausibly suggests that xi jinping is going to get overthrown in a coup is not serious this is not a serious person this cannot

happen like this is this is this is like this is like fucking uh like steve bannon's getting the death penalty shit like it's actually less plausible than that like it's it's nonsense like there's and when you say because i'm not i'm not a china government knower when you say it's impossible is it just because like we have a China government knower, when you say it's impossible, is it just because, like, we have a long history of what happens when, like, people who are in power in the Chinese Communist Party lose power and it's not coups? Well, I mean, here's the thing, right? So people will make a...

There's, like, a whole big thing about how, like, Hu Jintao was, like, the first, like, successful, like, nonviolent, like, transition of power in Chinese history. And, like, that's kind of true, like, in the modern CCP becausep because like so after mao there's another guy who takes power and he gets like fucked up by ding xiaoping and like his sort of minions but like okay so the first thing you have to understand about this and this is something that's going to come up later here is that the chinese army is not going to stage a coup like this is impossible it is not going to happen the chinese army is not a political faction that works like this there has never been like the chinese army has never done a coup

like like the the army of like the people's liberation army has never done a coup that's not how this works it is it is like it is insane it is like just bafflingly incomprehensible that anyone would think they could do this because they can't it like this is this is this is not what this is not what the pla is as an institution insofar as people get overthrown inside of the party it's by other people in the party doing like factional maneuvering against them and that can sort of happen uh but like okay this is the year 2022 uh xi jinping has basically like clobbered everyone in the party who like anyone who was actually going to present a serious challenge to him like was clobbered like 10 years ago so i mean 10 10 is probably slightly over but like you know he he just finished so part

of the background to the story is that he just finished purging like a few of his like last remaining like kind of serious like not even really serious but like he he he's did another one of anti-corruption purges and he's like had a guy like executed for corruption right like this isn't like that that that's how stuff actually works in the party is someone gets arrested for corruption and then put in prison for a long time or killed like but like like you know executed for like corruption like that that's how this stuff actually works there's there like there are no coups this is bullshit i'm gonna yell at a china watcher specifically who was talking about this, like, at the end of this episode because I'm mad about it. Like, so, like, and obviously, like, right now, like, obviously today, the 27th, like, Xi Jinping has reappeared in public.

So, like, this is obviously bullshit. Five days ago, if we turn back the clock, it was exactly as bullshit as it was then. But there's, there is some other context here which is that so one of the reasons why anyone is even talking about this in the first place is that um on october 16th which is like a bit over two weeks from now uh the ccp is going to have the 20th national congress of the chinese communist party and this this is like the big one right like every five years like the whole party gets together and it's where they choose the like the whole party gets together and it's where they choose members of the politburo and it's where they choose the the members of the absolutely

terribly named politburo standing committee of the chinese communist party wow there's like another thing there's like another like all the stuff is like it's it's based on like like just the structure of like this is based on like the party structure that the the bolsheviks set up what would be the kind of comparison to this for american politics or really is there not i mean it's kind of like like the closest thing would be a presidential election but imagine if a presidential election was like like imagine if a presidential election was one party got together and they chose the president so it's just it's it's a committee that kind of gets the different bureaucratic leaders of different like sectors yeah yeah so well it's it's not so much like so it's basically like it has all of like the the leader sort of like going

down like the ranks of the party like the you you have like like each like like city or whatever like people will okay so you send delegates to it like originally it was like like back in like the like when the bolsheviks were doing this and like in like 19 like 1919 right like it's okay though the like these are based off of like like the whole party like like the bolshevik party would have a congress and all of the sort of leading organizers and all like everyone like all the sort of like local party factions would like elect a person and they would send a delegate to the thing and then they would all fight out and figure out what their policy was going to be now it's like there's i mean there are power struggles that go on but the whole like this is an actual representative of like a mass party thing is just sort of gone it's just this is this

is sort of like what's actually going to happen at this one is we're going to see exactly how much power like xi jinping is going to take because he's i mean the big story that everyone's talking about is like xi jinping at the last one of these like well not the last one of these this was it was it was a it was a different congress but he he was able to like eliminate the two-term limit on chinese leaders that have been imposed sort of like after mao because people were like maybe this is a bad idea so he's gonna he's gonna get like he's gonna get a third term there's a bunch of debate over like exactly how much power he's gonna get and, like, what titles he's gonna get. But, like, I don't know.

I'll do an episode about that after it happens. But basically, there's all this sort of political intrigue stuff swirling around because this is, like, this is, like, the big political event, like, of the sort of, like, modern period. The other thing that was happening... Well, and this is also why

he was like purging some of his opponents because like well you know so like i guess the other thing we should we could talk about with this is like if people have listened to revolutions like this is how stalin took over the party which is that he figured out that like the way you take over the state apparatus is by you you make yourself the like the head of the politburo and then you have enough vote you have like you you need all you need to do is control like three people on the politburo and you can just sort of like dictate policy down the line for the party and this gives you this gives you control the state so like this is this is sort of this that's all like that's like the like ancestor of this it's still a very similar kind of structure sort

of um mostly it's just like yeah there's an important political event going on and the other thing is that xi jinping was out of the country so he was doing he was doing a tour of central asia for like like he's doing one of those sort of like fluff tours people do of like ah we're like reaffirming or like trade ties and stuff and so he was in samarkand and then he came back i think on the 21st and then he just sort of vanished for a few days. And the reason that he vanished was that he was in quarantine, which is the thing that like is real in China, but everyone else has just like forgotten exists. And so he was actually doing the thing that you're supposed to do because he was actually back from an international trip. that like you're supposed to do because he was he came back from an international trip yeah well and also like well i hate to say you've got to hand it to xi jinping but i guess you've

got to hand it to him that is that's what you should do after getting back from an international trip like jenny wiley one of the few things i will say about xi jinping is he has gotten covid less times than joe biden which is he has not gotten covid yeah right like he hasn't gotten it and the reason he hasn't gotten is because they actually sort of like there are ways in which the way that they take covid policy seriously is nuts like there are like anti-lockdown riots happening right now because they locked down like an entire like they locked down an entire town because one person got covid which like whatever and you can argue with the covid policy but but they, he, he, he doesn't have COVID. So it just blows my mind that no one was like, this might be an option of why he's not around.

Well, every, everyone who was like serious, like, like anyone who like, yeah, that's why it was all nonsense. People who were spreading it.

Yeah. Like it was all, it was all random Twitter accounts. I think what would kind of the, the missing piece here and what's actually happened is that. So those of you who have followed my career, accounts. I think what would kind of the missing piece here and what's actually happened is that. So those of you who have followed my career will know that there's a website called Bellingcat that I wrote at that has been in the news pretty continuously for the last almost 10 years, because they kind of helped invent the modern concept of open source research and open source

intelligence, which has really had its biggest moment since the invasion of Ukraine, because suddenly there's all this footage of tanks getting blown up, of Russian soldiers doing this and doing that, and of cities changing hands and all this stuff. And people have been following the war through a lot of these big OSINT accounts. Kind of the last huge moment in OSINT prior to the invasion of Ukraine was January 6th. And that was another big moment for people understanding it. And kind of one of the popular conceptions of open source intelligence is that random guys on the internet are getting better intel than, you know, the CIA or whatever, which there's a degree to which that's true, because a lot of random people did become

experts in stuff like, you know, different kind of munitions tracking and whatnot, and did a better job of tracing certain things than than state agencies were doing, which is why like some of those people. Anyway, it's a whole long story. But the problem is that it's led people to believe that the best intelligence often comes from random people on the Internet. And no, one of the things, if you're trying to evaluate someone who is claiming to provide OSINT,

one of the most important things to do is, number one, can you actually trace their work back? Like, is it possible to like follow their thinking and their conclusions to determine whether or not what they're saying is nonsense? And number two, do they have like a track record? Because like, for example, Eric Toler and Elliot Higgins, who I worked with for a while, have like a 10-year track record of being for example eric toller and elliot higgins who i worked with for a while

have like a 10-year track record of being consistently right about things and breaking massive stories and doing stuff like uncovering russian gru agent operations and stuff um and these were just random accounts that no one had ever heard of on twitter claiming to have detailed figured out detailed information about a coup in the chinese government well there's there's nothing behind them yeah well it's funny too because like okay so once once like actual people we're gonna get this a second like once actual people started picking it up like if you just googled any of the people who were like writing about this it's it takes like five seconds to figure out this person is just nuts and but nobody did it because it's twitter and so instead what happened is um so this thing starts like on chinese twitter like it because it's twitter and so instead what happened is um so this thing starts

like on chinese twitter like it's it's a little people like but like yeah it starts on like the chinese speaking part of like china twitter i'm gonna read a thing uh from the indian news site first post which like did a kind of cleanup job of like hey all of the other indian outlets who are covering this i've just have just completely lost their minds here's like what actually sort of happened um quote a twitter account new highland vision which has over 20 000 followers wrote on the 22nd of september that former chinese president hu jintao and former premier wen zhaibao had persuaded song ping the former member of the politburo standing committee, to take control of the Central Guard Bureau from Xi. So I don't – my guess is that it makes no sense to anyone on, like, any of you.

No, that – yeah. Yeah, so this is – well, okay, so what this is is this is some, like, old-school, very, very weird, like, old-school Chinese inside baseball shit. old school Chinese inside baseball shit. The first thing you should know about this is this is complete... The first way you can tell this is nonsense is that Song Ping is not doing shit. And Song Ping is not doing shit because this man is 105 years old.

What? Oh my God. This man was born in 1917. Wow. Born to coup, baby. Hell yeah. It's his time. It's his turn.

You know what? Credit to China. I thought we lived in a kleptocracy run by, like, an aging ghoul cast, but damn, 105. To be fair, the queen could have lived so much longer. To be fair to China, this guy is, like, three generations out. be to be fair to china like to be fair to china this guy's like three generations out like this is okay so the the sort of like fantasy here is is like hu jintao like taking power and hu jintao is like he was one of the guys who came in like like he kind of made his bones like purging the

people in the ccp who like hadn't been hard enough on the chienanmen protesters but he he's like he's one of the sort of reform and opening guys um like sung ping is like one of the guys who like helped like hu jintao advance in the part like hu jintao is like a guy from like the 90s right like these are like like people who at one point were genuinely powerful and are now like, I don't know. I mean, there's persistent rumors. They do stuff behind the scenes. But like it's it's I don't know. They are like unbelievably and ferociously decrepit.

And OK, do you know what else is unbelievably and ferociously decrepit? Nicely done. The gold company that's now advertising. Look, guys, listen, listeners, you're probably going to hear some gold ads. They're very silly ads. People do seem to be enjoying them. I'm going to tell you two things.

Number one, don't buy gold. The only precious metals you should invest, if you're going to invest in precious metals, which I don't necessarily recommend, the only ones you should invest in are lead and brass. Yeah. But, yeah, I don't care about these. Like, look, when the fucking CIA or the FBI or the Washington State Highway Patrol is

advertising on our show, we get those ads removed. I don't care. You're not going to buy gold. Don't buy gold. Don't buy gold. But we'll take their money and we'll use it to pay our salaries. It's fine. Like, enjoy it.

Ah, we're back. Boy boy you know what guys i said what i just said there and i i just bought 137 000 in gold i'm gonna go i'm gonna go bury it right now actually exactly exactly hey i can't even buy gold i'm allergic to it for real yeah really yeah i'm not meant to be rich. I didn't know you could be allergic to gold. I also did. I knew you could be allergic to like, if it's like, plated. Oh wait, no, yeah, because like rings and stuff. Yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, I mean like, the metal. I'm not like, going to like, die if I touch it. But like, it came up on an allergy test. So it's like, legit. I wonder if you're only allergic to like, broke people gold. And if you're not allergic to rich people people gold. And if you're not allergic. Oh, maybe. Poor people gold.

I love that there's poor people gold and rich people gold. I know. I know. It's just very funny that that's. And I'm sure the people advertising on our shows are selling like. It's like asbestos bricks covered in gold leaf. Yeah. We should talk about this.

Not right now. Off air. Let's continue okay so back back back to another kind of incredibly bizarre fantasy so like there's there's this group of like people who are like like chinese dissidents or whatever but like whose thing is that like they think that like xi jinping is like an unreconstructed maoist and that like you know one day like the like the people from the reform period who like ended maoism are one day gonna like sweep him out of power like this is nonsense like it's like the

only equivalent i can think of this is like every once in a while you'll see some russia expert ranting about how like putin is like on the verge of being overthrown and like some like liberal no one has ever heard of the 90s is gonna do this it's the same shit by the way the fake osent that comes out because it's all stuff like look they've they've closed the streets in Moscow and like this street. You know, they've got military out and it's like, well, yeah, they're having a parade. It's like a pre-announced parade. They do this every year. They hold this exact parade every year and they close the street down the same way.

And you can find that if you look into it. But people can take like post a bunch of pictures on Twitter of like cleared streets and like soldiers blocking intersections and it looks to somebody who doesn't know anything about russia like wow these the the osin people have done it again they've uncovered another a coup against putin well one thing one thing the other thing that i'll say about coups is because we like in the last like maybe three or four years have actually been a lot of coups but the the thing about a coup right is that like one of the things that happens very quickly usually in a coup if if the coup plotters are winning is that like they there's you'll you'll you'll see a message from something called like the government of national salvation or some shit yeah and they'll like start putting

out statements and if you don't see a statement from like the united liberation army of national salvation or whatever like it's not happening that's what i'm gonna call mine wait i'm just okay i understand how it spreads like i'm sure we're gonna get into it but like i understand how it would spread to like people on the internet that want something to latch on to but if you're saying it got to like al jazeera and all that stuff like there wasn't like a journalist that like looked into it so it's the thing okay so there there's a couple, yeah, we're going to get to that. Like, so, there's two different kinds of things happening, right? One of the things about this conspiracy is that there's a lot of people who see it and are, like,

like, I saw a guy who was, like, an Ultramaga account, right? Like, his thing was, like, he was, like, Nuclear Ultramaga, who posted a picture that was, like, oh, my God, this is an explosion in Beijing. And it was, like, no, this is from a Tianjin a changing explosion 2015 and this is the only time i've ever seen this the next day he was like yeah i'm sorry that's actually not what i thought it was like even those guys look at this and we're like critical support to nuclear ultra mega no it was interesting those those are the people you know normally expect just get bowled over by this stuff and they were like this is nonsense like what is You know, I'm glad that we can rely

on the journalistic credibility of Nuclear Ultra Maga in these uncertain times. Thank God. Thank God. Nuclear Ultra Maga was being more responsible than most of the mainstream Indian journalistic outlets, which is terrifying. Yep.

So, okay. So, like, the thing about this, the original version of this conspiracy, though, is like this is gibberish nobody knows what the central guard bureau is like i had to look that up like apparently it's a it's a like the central guard bureau is like this thing that's in charge of like protecting like high-level leaders or whatever like it's nonsense like this is this is like pure inside baseball shit for like like people who are like really committed like Chinese dissident what pads or whatever

what happens next is so people start kind of picking up on it and in particular there's a person named Jennifer Zhang who has like 200,000 Twitter followers she starts posting this video that claims to be PLA military vehicles heading to Beijing on September

22nd and this like goes viral um so here I'm gonna give us three options one this is footage from 2014 two it's footage from a video game three video game let's yeah let's think that happens a lot well no so here's I actually think this

is real military footage and I think it's actually kind of recent it's just that like it's really easy in China to just like look at a road and see a military truck like option three it's footage of some fucking like tank on the road in china it's not even a tank it was just like armored cars which is like a thing that like like people move troops around i just did a road trip up to northern washington for a parkour conference and nerd i know and we we we passed three military helicopters flying in the sky we passed like two we we we passed like two um uh uh like uh troop carriers we passed a whole bunch of military equipment i'm not gonna film and

be like they're invading oregon quick like what? No, like, this is the thing. Like, if you take one thing out of this episode, it is that any time someone says that they are seeing troop movements, it is always a lie. This was a huge thing during Hong Kong, because everyone was, like, terrified the army was going to show up. And, like, every two days,

there'd be another video of someone's like, oh, there's an army confine moving into Hong Kong. It's always fake. It's never real. It's like, the only time it's ever real is if there's actual shooting. Like if there's a literal war going on, maybe. It's never real.

You're going to know when it's real. It's also, if you want to look about it at times, because there are times where people do OSINT on military movements and it's meaningful. A good example would be the months that led up to the invasion of Ukraine. In which case you were able to clearly show, here is satellite footage three months ago

of this place from the air, and here is it now, and there's like a million more guys there. Clearly something is going on, and we can show this pattern repeating in a bunch of areas, right? Yeah, and this is a very different thing from, the thing that goes viral on Twitter is someone will just post a video of it. And if what's happening is they're posting a video

of some military-looking trucks, that person is, that's all it is. 99.9% of the time, that person is full of shit. And this is like one of the most common patterns of just like weird bullshit conspiracy stuff is this stuff. People like love this. Again, the thing that's happening

to open source intelligence is the thing that happens to everything cool that comes on the internet. You, the thing that's happening to open source intelligence is the thing that happens to everything cool that comes on the air. You have this thing that's figured out that is made possible because of new technology. People do really rad shit. In the case of OSINT, it's like prove that the Russian government shot down MH17 over fucking Ukraine and solve all of these war crimes being committed in different areas by figuring out exactly who the perpetrators were and where they were committed and all this shit based off of like sketchy video footage and then the thing goes viral and elements of the aesthetics of it are taken by people who just want to spread bullshit um or in some cases who think they're actually doing real research and are just dumb and you know then then then you get to this point

where kind of this thing that was pretty wild and pretty free for a while has to, there's a degree to which it has to become professionalized so that people can know who is full of shit

and who is not and like who has a track record and who doesn't. And I'll go back to, in terms of like how you can tell if something is real OSINT, kind of the earliest

big case study of like OSINT researchers breaking something is proving that the Russian government shot down MH17, this Malaysian air flight over Ukraine when the Russians were blaming the Ukrainians for it. And the way they did it is, there were pictures in the wreckage of the aircraft that were taken, numerous ones that showed pieces

of the missile. Some of those pictures had numbers on them. All weaponry, military-grade weaponry, has serial numbers and shit, and using those serial numbers, people were able to track it back to the Buck missile battery that the missile had been on, and because the Buck missile battery also has, like, numbers and shit,

you can trace its progress. They figured out what base it originated at, and then using a mix of, like, videos civilians had taken and, like, and shit, and you can trace its progress. They figured out what base it originated at, and then using a mix of like videos civilians had taken and like other stuff, they were able to kind of trace the path of this Buck missile as it left Russia and entered Ukraine, and then found it in a village, like video evidence that just some taxi driver, it was literally a guy who had like a fucking car camera on,

and he just uploaded footage from like driving around town. You see in this town next to where the plane was shot down, the buck missile launcher that has the missile that shot down MH17 driving through that town the day that the plane is shot down. It's like, oh, OK, well, there you go. And again, it's the thing in terms of like how to tell if something is valid. Oh, and you can track all of that back. Every stage of it makes sense. Every stage of it is repeatable

to a lay person and and and if they're good they're going to demonstrate their work as they tell this as they like show here's the steps that i took um they're never going to just say here's a video of two army vehicles look troop Yeah, well, okay. We're going to be getting into who she is after these ads. Oh, oh. You know, when I'm thinking about shooting down civilian airliners, I wish I had gold in my basement. I was wondering how you were going to get gold. Yeah, same.

That was a... We're going to be... It came around. Next year, we're launching our first trebuchet Yeah, same. It came around. Next year, we're launching our first trebuchet exclusively using gold as the projectile. The end mission is to set up next to the airport and shoot down

as many planes as possible using the gold trebuchet. Wow. Garrison Davis, threatening international air travel. Hope your passport comes in soon, buddy. Before anyone hears about this in the State Department. Here's some ads. I just got my gold purchase flagged.

I don't know what's going on, but it's not letting me buy any more, so I think they're on to me. Wow. Yeah, that's... Listeners, we need you to just buy all of the gold you can and mail it to garrison so that garrison can fight climate change with his gold-powered anti-aircraft catapult so chris how's it going okay so okay so the the thing that also should

have clued people in like that something was wrong, is if literally any of the people who were retweeting Jennifer Zeng had, like, literally just Googled her name. Because it, okay, so if you do this, what you find out is that she is a self-proclaimed human rights activist and journalist who writes for, like, really weird right-wing outlets in Japan. And also writes for the Epoch Times. Oh, oh really? Now, now, finally, finally, we can pull back the curtain and reveal what has been going on this entire time. Which is that, and then this, yeah, what's actually going on here is that Jennifer Zhang is part of the Falun Gong, which is like a very, very weird right-wing Chinese cult. She was like, like it, she like had to leave China because she went to write a book about them. This, this whole thing's

been a full on gong yep fallen gong off the whole time oh there we go back yeah okay good love it so yeah okay so people who don't know what the fallen gong is there they were okay so it's a thing that kind of emerged out of a bunch of these sort of like chi meditation practices but in the late 80s and 90s like the fallen gong it turns into this like this full scare religious cult that's like and as as as the ccp like increasingly sort of represses them they become like increasingly anti-communist um you've they're they're like literally like you cannot be a chinese person in the u.s and not run into these people fucking everywhere they'll just like march through chinatown. I mean, there's billboards for their fucking music show thing everywhere around fucking where I live, you know?

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. They have a show called Shen Yu. That's them? Yeah, that's them. Yeah, that's them. China before communism. Yep.

What? That's everywhere. It's all everywhere. Yeah. It's everywhere. Billboards, TV ads, radio. It is. The actual show is wild.

Yeah, yeah. They have a huge network in the US and like the actual thing that it is it's like it's mostly like trying to for companies the actual thing is this weird combination of like half ass Buddhism and Taoism and then like absolutely insane anti evolution shit like there's like a giant mouth Christian Buddhism

as well it's like this is a whole bunch of weird, it's not just like Taoism. It's a bigger Well, it's more Buddhist. It's a very very weird cult thing. And they also operate the Epoch Times a fascist newspaper.

Although, weirdly the Epoch Times Okay, so this is the part of the story that's very odd which is that i'm about 80 sure about that original so so the original account that did this that um that did the original conspiracy that uh that the new highland vision thing was like a pretty new account it had a bunch of followers and it just vanished and there were a bunch of other account like tiny accounts that were also new highland vision i'm

about 80 to 90 sure but this is that that was a following gong thing but weirdly the epoch times doesn't really touch this it's it's it's it's very weird um they're like i'm gonna read a passage from from the epoch times it's like the epoch times insofar as i talk about it are citing ex-indian officials talking about it well like here here's a pack here's like a a a quote from a passage of like the thing they're writing about like a potential like stuff like okay yang noted in his article that lee was promoted to commander of northern theater command in 19 sorry in 2017 by xi and that lee led the formation of flags in the military parade on the anniversary marking the ccp's takeover of china which shows that she values him like this

is just like the most boring ass china watcher shit i've ever seen like the epoch times didn't like cover this as like like they didn't do the like the the thing that all the rest of long gone people were doing which is this sort of like, oh my god, there's a coup. Like, they just did this like... I mean, that kind of makes sense, because if they're on the inside in any way, they kind of know it's bullshit, so they don't want to kind of ruin some of their reputation,

at least in like the far right in the States. So it makes sense that they would only cover it in the extent of them quoting like other people, so that they're not actually giving their kind of definitive opinion on it yeah it's interesting and i think also because i mean i think the thing is that they also knew that this thing has limited shelf life because the moment that xi jinping reappears in public everyone knows it's bullshit yep but before then so the the new version of this of this conspiracy coalesces around like four things one is the sort of military

convoys going to beijing thing there are two there's i guess there's five because there's also technically that there's there's an image of the explosion that they claim is in beijing that's like not in beijing it was from like seven years ago um there's there's the there's the big the big one is there's this image going around that is like partially it's fake and then people try to do ons and on it and it sucks um is is they there's this thing that that's like beijing has canceled 60 of its flights and trains and there's like there's so the original pictures of it are fake right and then people try to go on flight trackers to like check if it's happening but they don't know how to use flight trackers oh boy so they look at the planes you're like oh my god it's been canceled if you look at the

actual map there's just a bunch of planes over beijing which is the thing you would expect there to be happening and they were like and it was one of those normal things were like like the actual thing that was happening was there were there were some cancellations but like that's because flights get canceled yeah like it was just completely normal flight cancellation stuff or like it wasn't even like a statistically significant number of them it was just regular flight cancellations and then like planes that had landed but people were being like they were canceled it's like no like they got there yep so that happened there was a lot of people trying to like do research stuff and just failing um there's there was this whole thing about xi jinping like missing this really important military meeting which like he actually

he genuinely wasn't there but he wasn't there because he was quarantining and he like sent um he sent like a message to it which is interesting because uh the the like the epoch times actually reports on that like that that passage that i read about like the weird like people trying to figure out who's holding a flag to see you get promoted like that that's about that meeting um but yeah then the last thing is just like where is xi jinping like blah blah blah if he's fine why isn't And this stuff, like, it's the, especially the flights and the convoy stuff, like, starts spreading like wildfire. And the thing that happens that, like, this thing should have died. Like, there shouldn't have been enough stuff to keep it going.

But it hit BJP Twitter, which is, like, so the BJP is basically, like, it's the fascist party that controls India. They're really fanatical Hindu extremist right-wingers. They hate Muslims. They suck. They're like – I would argue – I think there's a decent argument for this that this is the closest thing to a conventional 20th 20th century fascist party that exists on earth like on a mass scale we've talked about yeah long gone in the end the epic times here before or at least on bastards i i know i've talked about them a decent amount chris i know you have robert you have yeah they're kind of they're kind of one of the one of the recurring characters um yeah but what's what's interesting here is is that one of their ops like it just the the op doesn't really go towards sort of like American right-wing Twitter.

It goes towards Indian right-wing Twitter. Which is notable. Yeah, yeah. And the reason I think a lot of this is happening is that, like, so do you remember a couple years back when, like, a bunch of Indian and Chinese soldiers, like, beat each other to death in, like, the mountains with sticks? It was pretty cool, yeah. Yeah. So, like, this is, like, a thing. like beat each other to death in like the mountains with sticks it was pretty cool yeah yeah so like this is like a thing there's there's been border disputes between china and india like since india

was created basically like um they they they fought a war like okay the the war that people want to talk about the least is the 1962 sino-indian war where mao just kind of like invaded a bunch of india and just like absolutely kicked the shit out of the indian army and this has been just kind of like invaded a bunch of India and just like absolutely kicked the shit out of the Indian army and this has been a sort of like there's a sort of like a recurring like Indian nationalist like bugbear thing where like I mean when border

tensions flare up like the India people you get a bunch of like really terribly animated things of like an Indian soldier with a giant staff like beating the shit out of a dragon or something. This is just sort of like something that happens on like Indian right wing Twitter and Jordan, Jordan Peterson shit.

Yeah, literally like it's, it's really funny too. Cause you, you, you get two of the like absolutely funniest, like you, you get the sort of like the Chinese like wolf warrior,

like accounts and the like BJP people going at it. And it's just unbelievably funny to watch. Cause they're too like two of the like bjp people going at it and it's just unbelievably funny to watch because they're too like two of the most like absolutely psychotic like insane nationalists in the world you just you're just gonna watch them fight for a bit and it's it's a good time i unfortunately like so these guys pick it up and it rapidly like okay one of the things like that there's this right-wing indian astrologer who predicted that in 2023 she was gonna get overthrown stop yeah that's that is one of the worst ad-lib sentences ever he's a bjp indian wait that's kind of interesting to me that's

that's kind of interesting a right-wing indian astrologer oh yeah he's like there's there's a lot of right-wing people who are into astrology sheree yeah well There's a lot of right wing people who are into astrology, Shereen. Specifically, a lot of that is very influential in the RSS, which is kind of the Indian fascist movement that is backing Modi. Who's the guy who runs the country right now. Who's yeah.

It's, it's not, it's not weird that that's happened given the context of Indian politics. It's not surprising, but it sucks. It does suck. It's not surprising, but it sucks. It does suck. It for sure sucks. We can say that for certain. I wonder what sign he is.

I'm so sorry. I'm kidding. Am I right, guys? Fucking Libras. He gives me a lot of Pisces rising energy, actually. So, Subramaniam Swami, who is a guy who was, this guy was a sixth term bjp mp he was a he was a this man was a government minister at one point starts tweeting about this whole thing great and then like it just it's just like this thing just like goes through the actual indian media sphere

like fucking wildfire um the z news which is an outlet founded by the uh deceased right-wing media like an indian media billionaire suprash chandra who uh rest in piss by the way died in august uh runs a story called china coup beijing hiding something big xi jinping in deep trouble what rumors suggest like the fucking economic times this is the second largest English language business paper in the world. Runs a story titled, quote, Chinese President Xi removed from power in a coup? Here's what we know so far. It is nuts.

I mentioned this at the beginning. Part of the reason this goes viral is that Republic Media Network, like, probably India's largest TV network, just runs with it as a story. Like Fox News. Yeah, it's like runs with it as a story like fox news yeah well it's yeah it's like fox is but it's like they're i guess the way i would describe it is like they don't like fox news has like a really really elaborate like like system because they've been doing this for ages right they have a very very elaborate system for like running like running

a dumb thing from twitter like and turning it into like turning into like a package story yeah uh this is not what's happening here they are just like like live reporting from twitter and i and i think this is i don't know like i think it's like it's it's it's it's a degree of laziness that like you you see this in american journalism a lot too where like people will just literally report like report to it like things that happen on twitter like this is this is how this is how like goblin mode became a thing like there's a lot of stories that are just it's just linking to twitter and they're basically doing this and part of the everything that's going on here is that like you know so like indian media has just become increasingly right wing over the past decade and they've gotten like increasingly more fascist and when you and you know everything is like fascists

are incompetent and like this is basically the result of the sort of hollowing out of the indian media sphere is that these like matt like these absolutely titanic like cable and news networks are running this just like like stuff that is so bullshit that like like the fucking newsman like there was a newsmax anchor grant stitchinfield who's a newsmax host like has like a video about this and the video both starts and ends with him going, this is probably bullshit, and then in the middle there's, like, some incomprehensible thing that he, like, half-read

an Epoch Times article and didn't understand, and he starts ranting about, like, the general of the Northern War who has just been relieved of his duties, that's a direct quote, by the way, absolute nonsense. Like, yeah, but, like, even those guys were kind of like this is whack like we we can't run with this but that it like the sort of like like the the the

the the sort of like indian fascists people are like so incredibly desperate for just like any like like even more so than the american right are more desperate for just like here is an anti-china story we can just sort of like throw out because of the sort of like increased tensions around the border etc etc this stuff just this stuff just explodes um and eventually you get like the Indian media outlets who are like

still actual like outlets who are like hey guys this is nonsense like the Hindustan Times and the Tribune write stories that are like really like are you guys kidding me like come on this is like obviously fake um yeah and and at a certain point like this whole thing it's sort of like phase but it has this there's there's no there's but then there's a sort of second wave of it which is there are a bunch of people who are like weird like chinese dissident quote-unquote

people but who aren't like who aren't falling gong people who like looked at this and were like this is obviously a lie i'm not gonna jump in on this layer of the bullshit but then we're like okay i've got a second layer of this um there there's there's someone uh dr li mangan who's like she's like an old school like covid bio like bioweapon, like, lab truther person. She was like, okay, okay, no, no, no, hold on, hold on. What's happening here is that this whole discourse was a Xi Jinping op to distract everyone from the alliance with Putin that he's going to announce at the party congress. A PR stunt! that he's going to announce at the party congress

yeah yeah he needs to like secretly cover up the fact that he's going to create an alliance to destroy the free world it's a real it's a real circus of just like like all like you got to see like this whole sort of second and third waves of media grifters

like looking at the story and being like okay how do we spin this how do we and it's I don't know like I I feel like this is a part of like this part of twitter like the sort of like it's this kind of there's this kind of intersection of like weird chinese cranks and like china watcher twitter where you get a bunch of these very weird things but yeah i i've talked about this but it's like the thing that's interesting to me is like the extent to which the right doesn't pick this up like this is the kind of thing like you would expect like alex jones to be talking about and as best i can tell like alex jones doesn't cover it like fucking bucky barnes like i haven't talks about it like briefly

like on like but like while alex is like walked out of the room, talks about it for five seconds, and then stops. And I was like, really? Alex Jones isn't going to cover this? It's possible I missed part of it. If Xi Jinping is less secure in power and can be overthrown by other elements in the Chinese government, then China's kind of less scary that Alex Jones tends to portray it as. So that's might be part of it. Yeah. I don't know though.

We'll give him some time. Maybe he'll get on this later. Yeah. I don't know. He's got a lot going on right now. Yeah. Oh God. Okay.

So the last thing I want to talk about is like, so I've been saying, I've been talking about China watchers this whole time. There's like, basically there's kind of a academic career slash profession like in the u.s that's like being a china watcher and so you get like some international relations degree you get some like cultural studies degree and you go to china for a bit and you come back and then like your job is to write about like the inscrutable oriental mind and i there are like one or two

of these people there are are a couple of these people who i like have some respect for uh writ large i i literally cannot with these people um well so what the guardian writes an article about this later on they're like yeah because this is not happening but the guy they quote writes in a twitter thread i'm just gonna read this tweet because i jesus christ a palace coup in a time of political pressurization is not implausible. Gorbachev and Yeltsin were detained during the USSR-Russia transition period. A coup is not an anathema to China either. Emperor Guangzhu was arrested by Dowager Empress Cixi when he attempted reforms.

That, by the way, the second thing he's talking about that is from like I think it's 1898 is the last coup he can find like you can just say shit like you could literally say whatever the fuck you want and people will be like oh yeah no no no this coup

that is literally two political there are two entire political systems that China has had between right now and the time that the emperor's regent like overthrew the the emperor to stop madru like i just i just come on like why why why why are people allowed to say this like why are people allowed to go oh yeah uh gorbachev and yeltsin got couped so that means that there could be a coup in china in 2022 like what this this this is one of the experts like i just i like like one of these every single every single one of these articles has this passage where they're like oh well part of the

reason why this is happening is because the chinese government is so unbelievably not transparent and i'm like no like part of the reason this is happening is because you guys just literally will say bullshit which means that people will just believe like literally yeah you can just say anything about china you can say that like it's all like it all comes down once again as every problem in the world does to the 24-hour news cycle where is this bullshit sure but like got to fill their time it's happening right now people People are talking about it. So we get to talk about it. We don't have to say it's true.

We can just like talk about it. And then we filled some airtime and, you know, we keep making money. It's good. And now we're talking about it. Yeah. I mean, it's like if it's a topic that people are not,

like I'm going to say something then add a caveat. If it's a topic that people are not very knowledgeable about, like the inner workings of Chinese politics, then they'm going to say something then add a caveat if it's a topic that people are not very knowledgeable about like the inner workings of chinese politics then they're going to be easier to believe it now even now obviously this strategy can work even for topics that people are knowledgeable about sometimes um but especially in something related to like foreign countries that most americans know very little about then yeah that's super easy to believe. Remember a few years ago

when everyone convinced themselves that King Jong-un died. Yeah, that was so weird. Because people are willing to believe something. There's a thing I've run into a lot where there's

a bunch of people in the American left who've basically and I don't even really know how they came to believe this because this isn't something that the CCP even says about itself. But, like, they've come to believe that China has universal healthcare, which it doesn't. They used to have one and then they got rid of it. Like, they literally dismantled the universal healthcare system. Like, there are people who believe that, like, China has, like, a right to housing and that everyone in china just gets a house and it's like like this is all this shit that's like i just has like it's so completely uncoupled from reality that like i i can't i can't even trace the source to where they got this up but it's really easy to spread because yeah it's just

like nobody knows and especially like yeah it's a foreign country nobody knows anything about it and you can and like the actual people who are experts will just like start spouting shit about how it's plausible there could be a coup against xi jinping because a fucking emperor was overthrown 150 like 124 years ago like it's it's uh it's endlessly frustrating. And yeah. Anyway, so don't use the internet. Attack global communications infrastructure. Buy gold. Yeah, buy gold.

Buy some gold. And if you see something on Twitter or really anywhere online, instantly believe it, no matter what it is. Yeah. Yeah. Live matter what it is. Live your life that way. It's fine. Also, should we plug our live show that we're doing? We're doing

a live virtual It Could Happen Here and Q&A. The entire squad will be there. You can get tickets from moment.co slash ICHH. It's all over our socials

if you're looking for it. That will be on October 26th at 6pm Pacific Time. Mark your calendars. Mark your calendars. moment.co slash ICHH. I feel feel that was beautiful ridiculous good for you sophie and i know we've had a lot of debate about what we're going to be talking about and i think

one of the most important things in current events right now that kind of indicates the kind of collapse of american society is all of the try guys. So we are going to be preparing a two-hour presentation. It is just Try Guys. Two-hour presentation on the evolution of the Try Guys discourse and what really happened behind the scenes and how it impacts American politics going forward. Spoilers, none of them were ever married. Bye- Bye. Bye. Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora.

An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows

as part of My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to the leading

journalists in the field and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong though though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand

what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated

alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother, trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian.

Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me in a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories.

Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them.

Black Lit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Black Lit on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to It Could Happen Here. This is Shereen and you are listening to the first of two parts of the little series I wanted to do about Yemen. I think I've been really interested in the history of countries that are currently in turmoil because understanding the history of how they got there is usually so important to understanding their present. understanding their present. So Yemen is one of those places I think that is always in the news as experiencing something horrific. And I wanted to know exactly how we got to where we are.

So I wanted to focus on primarily modern events in the last several years, for example. And so this first episode is going to cover everything up till 2018, and then our next episode will cover the years after that. But before we jump to the modern times, I wanted to do a chronology of some key events that had led up to the 1990s, essentially. So we're going to rewind all the way back to the 1500s, I know. But still, this stuff is interesting to me. I hope it is to you too. Let's get into it.

In the 1500s, the Ottomans absorbed part of Yemen into their empire, but they're expelled in the 1600s. Centuries later, in 1839, Aden, Yemen's capital, comes under British rule. And then when the Suez Canal opens up in 1869, the city serves as a major refueling port. In 1849, the Ottomans return to the north of Yemen. However, around World War I in 1918, the Ottoman Empire dissolves, and North Yemen gains independence and is ruled by Imam Yahya. After 30 years in power, in 1948, Yahya is assassinated. So many things happened in 1948, I swear to God that year is cursed. But anyway, after Yahya is assassinated, his son Ahmed fights off opponents of feudal rule and he succeeds his father.

In 62, Imam Ahmed dies and he's succeeded by his son. However, army officers then seize power, and they set up the Yemen Arab Republic, and this sparks a civil war between royalists supported by Saudi Arabia and the Republicans, essentially, that are backed by Egypt. In 1967, Britain withdraws from the south of Yemen after years of a pro-independence insurgency, and its former territories unite as the People's Republic of Yemen. In 1969, a communist coup renames the south of Yemen the People's Democratic Republic of Yemen and reorients it towards the Soviet bloc. The Soviet bloc, aka the Eastern bloc, for those that need a quick refresher like I did, it's also known as the Communist Bloc, the Socialist Bloc, and the Soviet Bloc, and it was the group of socialist states in Central and Eastern Europe, East Asia, Southeast Asia, Africa, and Latin America that was under the influence of

the Soviet Union that existed during the Cold War. In 1970, Republican forces in Yemen triumphed in the North Yemen Civil War. In 72, there are border clashes between the two Yemen's, the North and the South, and a ceasefire is brokered by the Arab League. In 1978, Ali Abdullah Saleh becomes president of North Yemen. He's going to be popping up a lot in this history and also some modern times, so Saleh is a name that we should remember going forward. In 79, a year after Saleh becomes president, there is new fighting that begins between the two Yemenis. In 86, about seven years later, thousands die in a power struggle in the south, which effectively drives the first generation of leaders from office. Haidar Abu Bakr al-Adhas then takes over

and begins to work towards the unification of these two states in Yemen. However, this unification is pretty uneasy. In the early years, in the 1990s, after the re-unification of Yemen in May of 1990, Ali Abdullah Saleh transitions from president of North Yemen a post that he had held since 1978 to the president of the Republic of Yemen. At the same time the Zaydi Shia group Ansar Allah or the Houthis gradually gain power and the group's rise has at this point the tacit support of President Saleh. At this point the Soviet bloc implodes. The tension between these former states endures, even though they're technically supposed to be united at this point. The former states of Yemen is what I'm talking about here. Soviet bloc is over. So in 1994, a civil war begins. Just years

after the reunification of Yemen, the unintegrated armies of the north and the south face off, resulting in a brief civil war that resulted in the defeat of the southern army and short up Yemen's reunification. In May of July of that year, President Saleh declares a state of emergency and dismisses Vice President Ali Salem al-Baid and other southern officials, who declare the secession of the south before being defeated by the national army. A year later, 95, Yemen and Eritrea clash over the disputed Hanish Islands in the Red Sea. International arbitration awarded the bulk of these islands later to Yemen in 1998. This brings us to the 2000s, which introduces al-Qaeda into Yemen, and I guess the rest of the world. But in 2000, President Saleh reaches a border demarcation

agreement with Saudi Arabia, which is known as the Treaty of Jeddah, and he seeks to disarm the Houthis, whom he had previously viewed as a useful weapon against Saudi interference in Yemen. In October of that year, the U.S. naval vessel USS Cole is damaged in an al-Qaeda suicide attack in Aden. 17 U.S. personnel are killed with this attack. In February of 2002, Yemen expels more than 100 foreign Islamic clerics in a crackdown on al-Qaeda. In October of that year, al-Qaeda attacks and badly damages the oil supertanker MV Limburg in the Gulf of Aden, and this kills one person and injures 12 other crew members, and it also costs Yemen a lot of money in lost port revenues. Between 2004 and 2010 is the Houthi insurgency, or the Houthi rebellion. Tensions run high at this point

between Saleh's government and the Houthis after Saleh's border deal with Saudi Arabia. The Houthis are led by Hussein Badr al-Houthi at this time, and al-Houthi eventually leads a rebellion against the Yemeni government in 2004. In June through August of this year, hundreds die as troops battle the Shia insurgency that is led by Hussein al-Houthi in the north. Starting in June of 2004, Saleh's government begins arresting hundreds of Huthi members and issues a reward for Hussein al-Huthi's arrest, the leader of the Huthis. This fighting continues until al-Huthi is killed in September of 2004. In 2005, between March and April, fighting between the Houthis, which are now led by Hussein's brother, Abdel Malik al-Houthi, and government forces surges, and this leaves hundreds dead. More than 200 people are killed in a resurgence of fighting between government forces and the supporters of the previously slain leader of the Houthis, Hussein al-Houthi, who had died before his brother had took power.

And this fighting ceases after the sides reach an agreement, resulting in the surrender of the Houthis' top military commander. Between 2005 and 2006, these sporadic clashes between the government and the Houthis continue, but in March of 2006, President Saleh grants amnesty to 600 Houthi fighters. I think this is part of the reason that President Saleh goes on to win the 2006 election and remains president. However, in early 2007, the Houthi rebels and Saleh's government again find themselves at odds. Fighting continues for five months, and many are killed or wounded in the clashes between security forces and al-Huthi rebels in the north. This continues until rebel leader Abd al-Malik al-Huthi accepts a ceasefire agreement with Saleh, and this happens in June 2007 with the

help of Qatar. The ceasefire had not turned a year old when even more fighting breaks out between the government and the rebels. By July of 2008, Ali Abdullah Saleh declares an end to the fighting and the Houthi-dominated Saada governorate. In September of this year, an al-Qaeda attack on a U.S. embassy in Sana'a kills 12 people. Let's take our first little break before I forget, and we'll jump back in, see what happens next. And we're back. We left off in September 2008 after an al-Qaeda attack on a U.S. embassy killed 12 people, and in November of that year, police fire warning shots at opposition rallies in Sana'a. These demonstrators were demanding electoral reform and fresh polls. Between 2009 and 2010 is Operation Scorched Earth.

In August of 2009, the Yemeni military launches Operation Scorched Earth to crush the Houthi rebellion in Saddaa. At this point, Houthi rebels begin fighting with Saudi forces in cross-border clashes. Tens of thousands of people are displaced by the fighting. This fighting continues until, after rounds of offers and counter-offers, Sadda's government agrees to a ceasefire with Abdul Malik al-Houthi and the rebels in February of 2010. The Yemeni military simultaneously carries out Operation Blow to the Head. Yes, Operation Blow to the Head. This is a crackdown on both the rebels and al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, which are known as AQAP. Thousands flee the government offensive against the separatists

in the southern Sheba province. In September of that year, government forces besieged the governorate of Sheba in southeast Yemen to root out the AQAP militants. By 2011, the Arab Spring reaches Yemen. In January, demonstrations calling for the end of Saleh's 33-year rule begin. Saleh offers some concessions, promising not to seek re-election, but the protests spread. Security forces and Saleh supporters launch a crackdown that eventually leaves between 200 and 2,000 people dead. There's such a huge discrepancy between the death toll, because it's hard to know how many people are suffering, how many people die from these kinds of attacks, especially when there's not a lot of international interference or international

care, essentially. In April 2011, Saleh's General People's Congress, the GPC, agrees to a Gulf Cooperation Council broker deal to hand over power, but the president refuses to sign on. This prompts the influential Hashid Tribal Federation and several army commanders to back the opposition, after which clashes erupt in Sana'a. In June 2011, President Saleh is seriously injured in a bombing and he travels to Saudi Arabia for medical treatment. In September 2011, Saleh returns to the presidential palace amid renewed clashes. It is not until November 2011 that he signs a deal that states that his deputy, Adrabu Mansour al-Hadi, assume power and form a unity government. This unity government would include a prime minister from the opposition,

and it's formed after months of protests. This same month, a U.S.-born al-Qaeda leader in Yemen, Anwar al-Awlaki, is killed by U.S. forces. In February of 2012, Hadi is sworn in for a two-year term as president after an election in which he stood unopposed. However, he is unable to counter the al-Qaeda attacks in the capital as the year goes on. 2014 was considered the years of the post-Arab Spring, and in January, the National Dialogue Conference concludes after 10 months of deliberations, agreeing to a document on which the new constitution of Yemen would be based. In February, a presidential panel approves of a political transition plan that includes a draft federal constitution for Yemen that organizes the country into a federation of six regions. This was aimed to accommodate the Houthi rebels and southern grievances. But the Houthis seize control of most of Senna in August

of that year, and they reject the deal. Following two weeks of anti-government protests, President Hadi dissolves his cabinet and overturns a controversial rise in fuel prices. By October 2014, the Houthis take control of most of Yemen's capital, Sanaa. The following month, the rebels seize the Red Sea and the port of Hudaydah. In January of 2015, after being placed under house arrest by the Houthis, Hadi resigns as president. Despite previous attempts to craft a power-sharing agreement between Hadi and the Houthis, Hadi resigns as president. Despite previous attempts to craft a power-sharing agreement between Hadi and the Houthis, the two had continued to clash. The Houthis later reject a draft constitution that was proposed by Hadi's government.

A month later, the Houthis take control of the Yemeni government and appoint a presidential council to replace President Hadi, but this is a move that is swiftly denounced by the United Nations. President Hadi then flees the presidential palace in Sana'a and he escapes to his southern stronghold of Aden, and this is where he later rescinds his resignation, declaring himself the legitimate president and deems the Houthi takeover a coup. The month after that, in March 2005, the Islamic State claimed its first attacks in Yemen, which were two suicide bombings that targeted Shia mosques in Sana'a, the capital, and this resulted in 137 people being killed. The Houthis start an offensive against government forces and advance towards southern Yemen. President Hadi then flees Aydan and takes refuge instead in

Saudi Arabia. Shortly thereafter, the Houthis seize parts of Taiz, a city in southwestern Yemen. After repeated pleas from Hadi, who was still taking refuge in Saudi Arabia, a Saudi-led coalition of Arab states, including the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Bahrain, Sudan, and Kuwait, initiates Operation Decisive Storm in support of the ousted president. The coalition launches airstrikes against Houthi targets, deploys small ground forces, and imposes a naval blockade in order to halt the Houthis' advance on Aden. The United States then announces its intention to aid in the coalition's efforts. In April, a month later, the coalition

declares an end to Operation Decisive Storm. Saudi Arabia announces it would move on to a phase described as Operation Restoring Hope. Despite the announcement, the Saudi-led coalition continues to bomb Houthi positions, and the United States increases its arms sales for the Saudi campaign in Yemen. Let's take our second break and we will be right back to continue this little history. So BRB. Okay, we're back and we are still in April of 2015 when the Saudi-led coalition continues to bomb Houthi positions and the United States increases its arms sales for the Saudi campaign in Yemen. This is after Saudi Arabia announced that it would move on to a phase described as Operation Restoring Hope. Despite the bombing campaign that the Saudis are carrying out,

the Houthis capture the city of Attaq, which is a small city and the capital of the Shabwa government in Yemen. It's also southeast from Senna, and it's not that far. It's only about 450 kilometers south of Senna. After three Saudi officials die in a Houthi attack at the Saudi border, Saudi Arabia boosts its border security. The Houthi fighters also condemn a UN Security Council resolution imposing an arms embargo on the group, calling the decision an act of aggression. A month later, Ali Abdullah Saleh, the previous president, had been accused of siding previously

with Houthi rebels in support of Hadi's ouster. In May, Saleh and Yemeni forces loyal to him announced a formal alliance with the Houthis. The Saudis and the Houthis then agree to a five-day humanitarian ceasefire. U.S. President Barack Obama convenes a GCC meeting, the Gulf Corporation Council, at Camp David to resolve the crisis in Yemen, but only two states send their leaders, which is very sad to me. A month later, we're in June of 2015, and the leader of the Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the AQAP, Nasser al-Wahishi, is killed in a U.S. drone strike in Yemen.

A month after that, after months of fighting with Sunni tribesmen and AQAP militants, the Houthis take control of the entire Sheba governorate. The following month, President Hadi returns to Aden after Saudi-backed government forces and those loyal to Hadi recapture the port city from Houthi forces. 2016 introduces some foreign intervention, which always sounds like a good idea. In April of that year, the UN sponsors talks between the Hadi government and the Coalition of Houthis, as well as former President Saleh's General People's Congress. Between October of 2016 and May of 2017, both sides of the conflict allegedly break their ceasefires. The United Nations and others try to broker peace talks and political resolutions. The Houthis claim responsibility for firing missiles into Saudi Arabia, including the capital of Riyadh.

Also in 2017, humanitarian agencies and watchdogs decry the Yemen crisis as one of the worst humanitarian emergencies in the world. There are thousands of civilians dead and wounded at this point, and there's also an outbreak of cholera and a potential famine that would also leave thousands on the brink of starvation. In November 2017, Saudi Arabia intercepts a missile fired towards its airport in Riyadh and blames the Houthis, Iran, and Lebanon's Hezbollah for escalating the war. A month later, after Saleh had reversed course and sided with the Saudi-led coalition, fierce fighting in Sana'a between the Houthis and the forces loyal to Saleh leaves the former president dead. Saleh is now dead.

The Houthis at this point are controlling much of northern Yemen, but they still face stiff opposition from the Saudi-led coalition. President Hadi, whose loyalists control much of south Yemen, has called for a popular uprising against Houthi rule in the north. Saleh's son, who Salih is the former president that has now died. The son is Ahmed Ali Salih, and he has vowed revenge against the Houthis for his father's assassination. We're now in 2018, and a lot happens in 2018. This is the last year we're going to talk about, but there's a lot of months in 2018. So let's start with January. In January of 2018, in a firefight, the Southern Transitional Council, the STC, the United Arab Emirates-backed separatist movement,

it seeks a revival of the formerly independent South Yemen, and it seizes control of Aden. Aden is Yemen's main southern city and government headquarters, and it was also the previous capital if you remember all the way back when. By March of that year, 22 million Yemenis require humanitarian aid. In February, the UN appoints longtime British diplomat Martin Griffiths as special envoy of the Secretary General for Yemen. Between March and May of 2018, fighting escalates along Yemen's western coast, and dozens are killed in Saudi air attacks and security raids. A Saudi-led coalition drone strike kills Salih Ali al-Samad, who was president of Yemen's Supreme Political Council, making him the most senior Houthi casualty since the coalition began its activities in 2015. International opposition to the coalition's operations grows after an air raid kills more

than 20 people at a wedding party. In May, UAE forces take over the island of Saqqotra, occupying the airport and the seaport and causing tensions with Yemeni government officials. the seaport and causing tensions with Yemeni government officials. Between June and July of 2018, Yemeni President Adrubu Mansour al-Hadi meets with the UAE Crown Prince Mohammed bin Zayed al-Naihan, and by July, the coalition launches an offensive on the port of Hodeidah. Between August and October of 2018, international outrage over the Saudi-led coalition's war in Yemen grows after an air raid strikes a school bus, killing 40 Yemeni, mostly children. Public opinion of U.S. support for the war effort in the United States plummets as it is reported that the bomb that was used in the air raid was U.S. supplied. In October, U.S. resident and Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi

is assassinated by Saudi agents in Istanbul, and this raises additional questions about the U.S. support for Riyadh's war on Yemen. U.N. efforts to mediate between the Yemeni government and the Houthi rebels in Geneva, Switzerland are fruitless. At the end of 2018, November and December, are fruitless. At the end of 2018, November and December, the U.S. political establishment begins to have some unrest for withdrawing U.S. support from the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen. Former Obama administration officials, including the future Secretary of State Anthony Blinken, the future U.N. Ambassador nominee Linda Thomas-Greenfield and the future National Security Advisor to President Joe Biden, Jake Sullivan, they all sign an open letter expressing remorse for their support of the war and urging all sides to end the fighting. Because a letter and thoughts and

prayers is exactly what we need. In December of 2018, the U.S. Senate, for the first time, votes to invoke the War Powers Resolution to force the U.S. military to end its participation in the Yemen war. Later that month, after U.N.-mediated talks, the Yemeni government and the Houthis sign the Stockholm Agreement that includes prisoner swaps, a mutual redeployment of forces away from the Hodeidah port port and a committee to discuss the contested city of Taiz. The ceasefire is set to take effect on December 18th of 2018. Overall, the Stockholm agreement fails to achieve its goals and neither side agrees to withdraw from Hodeida. This is where I'm going to leave you for today. A really uplifting point. but tomorrow will continue on uh starting in 2019 and it'll

take us to present day where a lot of shit is still happening but i hope this little history of yemen has given you an idea of how exactly a country can keep having so much unrest because of constant leadership squabbles, to say the least, and coup attempts and fighting and international intervention. So that's all for today. And you'll hear me tomorrow if you want to. Goodbye. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora.

An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires.

From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong though, I love technology, I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand

what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami.

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters.

From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Black Lit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Black Lit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello, you beautiful people.

Welcome back to It Could Happen Here. This is Shereen again. This is Shireen again. If you listened to our previous episode from yesterday, you would know that we are today continuing and finishing up this little two-part series about the history of Yemen, trying to understand how its history has led up to Yemen being in present day

one of the worst humanitarian crises in the world. So yeah, we're talking about the history. In last episode, we talked about the history up until 2018, the end of 2018, and we're going to continue on from 2019 because that's how time works. But I will say, I don't know why, I feel like I need to provide a disclaimer, but this is who I am. I feel like I sounded like a bored professor in the previous episode, so I apologize if I sounded a bit flat. There are just so many dates and names that I feel like I need to get right, and I'm still trying to figure out how to talk about history in a fun and engaging way, if that's even possible. So bear with me. Hopefully there were some

things you found interesting and we can continue on this journey together. Okay, enough about me, please. Let's continue on in January 2019 in Yemen. So the previous month, December 2018, the Yemeni government and the Houthis had signed the Stockholm Agreement that included prisoner swaps, a mutual redeployment of forces away from Hodeidah port, and a committee to discuss the contested city of Taiz. The ceasefire was set to take effect on December 18th, 2018. But overall, this agreement fails to achieve its goals, and neither side agreed to withdraw from Hodeidah. So as we enter into 2019, the fighting is continuing. The Houthis launch a drone attack on the Al-Anad airbase north of Aden, and this injures dozens and also kills the head of

Yemeni intelligence. Back over in Washington, the Secretary of Defense, James Mattis, he had resigned in December of 2018, but his resignation takes effect in February of 2019, and this marks an end to the Trump administration's efforts to engage in the Yemen peace process. In April, Trump vetoed a bipartisan congressional measure that would force the U.S. military to end its role in the Yemen war. By June, the UAE unilaterally scales back its military presence in Yemen while continuing to support the STC, aka the Southern Transitional Council, and the STC had seized at this point more power in Aden. Meanwhile, the Houthis step up their efforts to attack Saudi territory, including launching missiles at oil installations and airports. The Saudi and Yemeni forces capture Abu Usama al-Muhajir,

who is the leader of the so-called Islamic State Yemen province, the ISYP. In July, the Emirates or the UAE announces it has completed its troop drawdown, or minimization, in Yemen, but by August, the STC effectively assumes control of the southern governance of Aden, Eban, and Shabwa. By the end of August, the UAE forces conduct air raids against the Yemen government forces that are headed to Aden to attempt to regain control. that are headed to Aden to attempt to regain control. Also in August, the Houthis launch Operation Victory from God against Saudi-led forces, and the Houthis continue to escalate its attacks on Saudi oil installations. These operation names, I will say, poetic in a depressing, sad way. In September, the Houthis claim to have used drones to bomb oil processing facilities in two cities in eastern Saudi Arabia. The attacks result in Saudi Arabia losing about

half its output capacity. And even though the Houthis take credit for the bombings, the international community at large blames Iran because Iran was thought to have provided the technical expertise that was needed to carry out such attacks. In November of 2019, in an effort to end the fighting between the coalition partners in southern Yemen, Saudi Arabia and the UAE broker a power-sharing agreement between their respective partners in the Yemen government forces and the STC. The Riyadh Agreement, which is what it was called, is signed in early November, but by December, clashes resume between the two forces, literally just a few weeks after it was signed. In January of 2020, leading up to February, fighting between the Saudi-led coalition and the Houthis picks up.

Houthi forces carry out missile attacks on military training caps and in Saudi Arabia's southern provinces. The Houthis claim to quote-unquote liberate roughly 1,500 square miles of territory from the Al-Jaf and Marib governance from Saudi-led forces, but this is a claim that the coalition denies. In March of 2020, remember when, Houthi forces capture the strategic city of Al-Hazm in the Al-Jaf offensive and the Saudi forces carry out a retaliatory airstrike on Senna, the capital. March of 2020, if y'all remember, is also when COVID officially made its big world debut. And I know the first cases happened in like late 2019, but I do think COVID really stole the show in March of 2020 and has been the show ever since. But regardless, the

Houthis capturing the city of Al-Hazam and the Saudi forces striking back with an airstrike on Sana'a, this all happens in the midst of the beginnings of the COVID pandemic. The United Nations urges both sides to maintain the ceasefire in order to prevent the pandemic from spreading in Yemen. This doesn't happen. Spoiler alert. But fearing that the Houthi rebels would control any incoming financial aid, the Trump administration announced a freeze on $73 million in humanitarian aid to Yemen, which is a very big number, like objectively, but it's a huge number as far as what Yemen needs as far as food and shelter and money like that makes a huge difference for a country that is in deep need

of assistance. But Trump fucking sucks. Okay. In April of 2020, Saudi Arabia initiates a unilateral two-week ceasefire to mitigate the risks of the new coronavirus pandemic. Days later, Yemen records its first known case of COVID-19. Despite the ceasefire, the Houthis and the Saudi coalition are both accused of carrying out attacks. In the south, the STC once again demands self-rule, and it breaks its agreement with the national government. In June, the Southern Transitional Council deposes the recognized government in Saqqotra, with government supporters decrying the move as a coup d'etat. The following month, the STC says that it has renounced its claim to self-rule and will return to the previously agreed-upon power-sharing structure. Like, not even two months, not even two months after the STC demanded self-rule, it's like, actually, I was just kidding.

I want to go back to the power sharing structure from before. And a lot of back and forth like this always seems to be happening in Yemen. But it also happens, if you just keep in mind, in so many nations that haven't necessarily maintained their roots long enough for something to grow. that haven't necessarily maintained their roots long enough for something to grow. And I think Yemen has been in this soil stage for a really long time, if you just want to go with me with this metaphor, please. In October 2020, the warring sides in Yemen carry out the conflict's largest prisoner swap. The following month, Saudi Arabia and the Houthis have reportedly initiated back-channel talks.

From the Saudi side, Saudi officials indicated their willingness to sign a ceasefire deal and end the Saudi air and sea blockade in exchange for the creation of a buffer zone between Houthi controlled territory in Yemen and the kingdom's borders. The Houthis later claimed to have fired a missile at the coastal Saudi city of Jeddah. December of 2020. The STC and the Hadi government, they formalize a new power-sharing agreement in Aden. Prime Minister Ma'in Abdul Malik Saeed is reappointed as head of the Hadi government's new cabinet, with the seats also going to both the STC and Yemen's Islah party.

Just weeks later, the new cabinet arrives in Aden from Saudi Arabia and an attack on the airport kills at least two dozen people, but no, none of the ministers. The Hadi government and the STC and much of the international community, they blame the Houthis for the attack and Saudi warplanes conduct a retaliatory air raid on Senna. January of 2021, the Trump administration uses the December attack to justify designating the Houthis as a foreign terrorist organization or an FTO. control over about 70 to 80 percent of the M.D. population, and they threaten Marib, which is a stronghold near the northeast corner of their control zone. Marib is going to come up a bit, so Marib is a stronghold just beyond the threshold of the Houthis' control. And then, you guessed it, February 2021, President Biden now enters the arena and he decides to take a new path. He announces changes to the U.S. policy toward Yemen, and this includes revoking the Houthi FTO designation, so revoking the designation that the Houthis are a forced terrorist organization.

And Biden also declares an end to the U.S. support for the Saudi-led coalition's offensive operations in the conflict. He appoints Timothy Lenderking as the special envoy for Yemen. Biden shows his support in the U.N.-led peace process, and he provides assurances to Saudi Arabia regarding the defense of its territory. Let's take our first little break here. I don't have a witty little segue to go to an ad break, but you know the drill. Just listen to the ads or press skip or whatever you do and we'll be right back. We're back. This is Shireen. You probably knew that. So, okay, we left off with Biden showing support in the UN peace process, and he's

providing assurances to Saudi Arabia regarding the defense of its territory, but it also is after he declares an end to U.S. support for the Saudis' offensive operations in the Yemen conflict. So after this, the Houthi rebels launch an offensive in Marib city. Marib again is the final stronghold for government forces in the north. The city is also very significant because of its location. It is located very close to some of northern Yemen's richest oil fields. Marib also hosts nearly 1 million internally displaced persons, and intense clashes are expected to displace thousands more. By March of 2021, the conflict between the Hadi government and the Houthis escalates in Marib. The fighting coincides with ongoing Houthi missile and drone attacks

against Saudi oil facilities, airports, and air bases. Saudi Arabia retaliates with airstrikes, particularly in the capital of Sena. The U.S. then condemns the Houthis' actions. Riyadh, aka Saudi Arabia, they propose a ceasefire, and this ceasefire would include the reopening of the Hodeidah seaport and the Sena airport. The Houthis reject this proposal on the grounds that a full lifting of the ongoing blockade is a prerequisite for any such agreement. Between April and May of 2021, strikes and counter-strikes continue and they escalate. Both the UN Security Council and Iran's foreign minister, Mohammad Javad Zarif, they voiced their support for the ceasefire between the various Yemeni forces. They voiced their support for the ceasefire between the various Yemeni forces.

A discussion takes place between the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman and the U.S.'s special envoy for Yemen, Tim Lenderking. Lenderking pushes for the Saudi-led coalition to loosen the blockade on Hodeidah and Sana'a. The U.N. special envoy for Yemen is Martin Griffiths at this point, and he's a British diplomat. So the U.S.'s special envoy is Lenderking, the U.N.'s is Griffiths, and the Houthis refuse to meet with the U.N. special envoy to discuss any kind of de-escalation of the conflict. We're now in August of 2021, and a Houthi attack wounds eight civilians on Saudi soil and it damages a commercial airliner. Amid continued attacks like this from the Houthi rebels, the Biden administration withdraws and removes its most advanced missile defense systems from Saudi Arabia. of last year, nearly 20 million people, or two-thirds of Yemen's entire population, are dependent on humanitarian aid for their daily needs. This includes very basic things like water and food and shelter, electricity, medical care. Martin Griffiths says that five million Yemenis

are, quote, one step away from succumbing to famine and the diseases that go with it. As Houthis continue to gain ground against Hadi government forces in Marib, the country of Oman is also officially called the Sultanate of Oman. It's an Arabian country located in southwestern Asia at the Persian Gulf. So Oman attempts to broker a peace deal between Saudi Arabia and the Houthis. Houthi negotiators refuse to meet with the newly appointed UN Special Envoy for Yemen, Hans Grunberg, before the Saudi-led coalition commits to the full lifting of the blockade on Hodeidah and Senna. After a very fleeting lull in hostilities, in September of last year, the Houthi rebels renew their offensive in the Marib governorate.

Duhabit is a key district in the south of the city of Marib, and government forces had previously recaptured Duhabit from Houthi control in July of 2021. But in September, the Houthi rebels capture it again and they continue their offensive in the battle for Marib city. At this point in the timeline, the Yemeni people are taking to the streets and protesting over the collapse of Yemen's currency and the inaccessibility for basic daily necessities. Government security forces forcefully respond to these widespread protests across southern Yemen, and this at the time kills three protesters. On September 18th of 2021, the Houthis execute nine people on charges of involvement in the Saudi-led coalition airstrike of April 2018. This strike had killed Salah Ali al-Samad, who was the Houthi-aligned de facto president of Yemen.

A week or so later, on September 27th of last year, a U.S. official delegation is formed, and it includes the National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, the Special Envoy to Yemen Timothy Lenderking, and the National Security Council's coordinator for the Middle East and North Africa, Brett McGurk. This delegation goes to meet with Saudi Arabia's Mohamed Belsalman, as well as Saudi Arabia's Deputy Defense Minister Khaled Belsalman, and this is done in an attempt for a diplomatic solution for the Yemen conflict. By October of 2021, the UN Human Rights Council votes against renewing the mandate for the Group of Eminent International and Regional Experts on Yemen, aka this is called the GEE,

and it had previously been the only independent body that was monitoring all parties to the conflict. An investigation in 2018 reported possible war crimes committed by all parties, and Saudi Arabia had been accused of attempting to shut down the investigation. Clashes are continuing in Marib at this point between the Hadi government forces and the Houthis. By October 17th of last year, the Houthis gained control of three districts in the Shabwa government, as well as two districts of the Marib governance. Basically, they're slowly capturing district after districts in their efforts to have full control. In November of 2021, the Houthis seize the former site of the U.S. embassy in Senna, and it detains its local employees. The United States calls for the immediate release of these employees, and it demands that the Houthis vacate the premises. A Houthi spokesperson announces the

capture of two more districts in Marib after already taking two other ones the month prior. Government forces prepare to defend their last remaining northern stronghold, aka Marib City, and some two million civilians at this point are now trapped in the Marib Governorate. Coalition-aligned forces abandon their position in the port city of Hodeidah and this allows the rebels to retake the city. A 2018 ceasefire agreement had prohibited fighting between the two sides and the government forces state that they are withdrawing troops from Hodeidah to send them to reinforce the front lines. Okay, last ad break, here we go. Bam. We're back. Okay, we're wrapping out 2021. And in December of last year, due to falling international funding, the World Food Program, the WFP,

cuts food aid to Yemen. In November 2021, the WFP had targeted $11.1 million for food assistance, but as the humanitarian situation deteriorates, the cost of food dramatically increases and becomes even harder to access. In the early months of 2022, January and February, the Houthi rebels launched a series of unprecedented attacks against the UAE and Saudi Arabia. This included air attacks across the border and the seizing of a UAE vessel in the Red Sea. The Saudi-led coalition responds to these attacks with a bombing campaign in Sena, an attack on a northern prison, and a strike on a telecoms facility in Hodeidah. This results in a four-day internet blackout

across the country, and at this point, UAE-backed forces regain control of some areas near Marib. On February 23rd of this year, the U.S. Treasury Department announced new sanctions against individuals involved in a funding network for the Houthis. During this time, the U.N. Security Council renewed for one year its arms embargo on Yemen and continued a travel ban and asset freeze on actors who threatened the peace. The council condemns the Houthi attacks on Saudi Arabia and the UAE The council condemns the Houthi attacks on Saudi Arabia and the UAE that struck civilians and civilian infrastructure. Four countries in the UN abstain from this UN Security Council decision, and those four countries are Mexico, Ireland, Norway, and

Russia. On March 6th, the Houthis reach an agreement with the United Nations to address the issue of an abandoned oil tanker in the Red Sea, the FSO Safer, that posed a threat of a massive oil spill. The World Food Programme declares that the humanitarian situation in Yemen is worsening because of the Russian war on Ukraine, and the Houthis continue their attacks against Saudi oil facilities, while the coalition continues its strikes against Sana'a and Hudaydah. Talks that are sponsored by the Gulf Corporation Council in Riyadh begin between various parties to the Yemen conflict. The Houthis declined to participate in this, stating that these talks should be held in a neutral country. That same day, Saudi Arabia announces the secession of all military operations in Yemen as of March 30th of this year. In April, the UN brokered a two-month truce between the warring parties that was to start with the holy month of Ramadan for Muslims.

The agreement was a notable step toward peace, as the last nationwide coordinated cessation of hostilities was during the peace talks in 2016. As these peace efforts gain traction with a two-month ceasefire, Exile President Adribu Mansour Hadi transfers powers to a new Presidential Leadership Council. This council is led by Rashad Al-Alami, and members of the council were selected at a GCC-sponsored talk in Riyadh. It also includes those associated with the secessionist Southern Transitional Council, as well as those that were formerly part of the government under Hadi. Hadi fires Vice President Ali Musain Al-Ahmad, who has long been resented by the Houthis, and Hadi delegates his powers to the presidential council. After the transfer of power is announced, Saudi Arabia and the UAE say they will provide $3 billion to support Yemen's decimated economy.

Despite a two-month truce, Houthi forces resume attacks on the front lines of the battle for Marib, which had previously been static since February. And this happens after the UAE-backed forces push the Houthis out of the center of one of the districts in Marib, the Hareb district. It's during this time that the Houthis also sign an action plan to prevent the recruitment and the use of children in the armed conflict, a senior Houthi military official had said in 2018 that the group inducted 18,000 child soldiers into its army, some of whom were as young as 10 years old. That's a baby. Oh my gosh, it really, my heart hurts all the time. Okay, we're getting close to modern times here. In August of this year, the head of Yemen's Presidential Leadership Council, Rashad El Alami, he ordered the UAE back separatists to stop military operations in Yemen's south.

in Yemen's south. This notice was issued to the head of the STC and it was seen as an attempt by al-Alami to step in and stop an STC campaign against the rival factions within the government umbrella, and this would include Yemen's Islah party. He said that all military operations should be stopped until the implementation of a troop redeployment in Yemen's south. And this was something that was stipulated in a power-sharing agreement from 2019, and he wanted this to be fully implemented before they moved forward. These divisions within the council really expose its precarious nature, because all the members are often ideologically opposed, and they're only united by the opposition that they have to the Iran-allied Houthis, as well as the support that they have from the Saudi-led military coalition.

In the southern Shabwa governorate, which is a very resource-rich area, the STC has made gains against the Islah party and it said in September, which is right now, that it had launched a, quote, anti-terror operation in Sheba's neighboring governorate of Abiyan. This operation, according to them, would, quote, cleanse Abiyan of terrorist organizations, which would include al-Qaeda, while also securing Yemen's temporary capital of Aden and other southern governorates. After the Houthis kind of invaded this governorate in 2020, the STC and other pro-UAE factions, they blamed the Islah party for allowing the Houthi advance. The removal of an Islah-aligned governor, Mohammed Saleh bin Addo, in December of last year, this cemented the ascendancy of pro-UAE forces. But the instability in the south of Yemen really complicates any kind of UN effort for a permanent ceasefire or an attempt to pave the way for political negotiations to end the war.

The UN-brokered ceasefire agreement that we talked about being implemented in April of this year, aka Ramadan, it has drastically reduced the fighting between the two sides, but the outbreaks of violence still continue. This month, Al-Qaeda attacks killed at least 30 soldiers. The STC, which again is Yemen's main southern separatist group, is backed by the UAE, and last month it expanded its presence throughout the southern Ebyan province in what it described as a move to, quote, combat terrorist organizations and it singling out al-Qaeda. In a series of tweets, the STC-dominated security belt said that six al-Qaeda fighters were killed after the group launched a, quote, terrorist attack on its forces in the Ahwar district in Ebyan. attack on its forces in the Ahwar district in Abiyan. It also added that Yasser Nasir Shai,

who was a commander belonging to the security belt's, quote, anti-terror brigade, it said that he was killed in the attack along with a number of his companions. I just wanted to bring in that little news because it just kind of happened this month. And obviously things are continuing to happen and it changes month after month, as you can tell. I'm laughing because it's sad. But hopefully this gives some context to why Yemen is struggling so much. And I want to read some of the stuff, some of the statistics about Yemen really quick because the scale of

this is so immense. So this is from the World Food Program's website. The WFP's emergency response in Yemen is our largest anywhere in the world. The current level of hunger in Yemen is unprecedented and is causing severe hardship for millions of people. Despite ongoing humanitarian assistance, 17.4 million Yemenis are food insecure. The number of food insecure people is projected to go up to 19 million by December of 2022. The rate of child malnutrition is one of the highest in the world, and the nutrition situation continues to deteriorate. A recent survey showed that almost one-third of families have gaps in their diets and hardly ever consume foods like vegetables, fruit, dairy products, or meat, or pulses, aka beans, peas, and legumes.

Malnutrition rates among women and children in Yemen remain among the highest in the world, with 1.3 million pregnant or breastfeeding women and 2.2 million children under five requiring treatment for acute malnutrition. Sometimes I think we can forget how many people is in a little statistic? Millions of people. We're talking 2.2 million children, 1.3 million pregnant or breastfeeding women. Just that number is so immense. I can't comprehend it. And the fact that this is projected to go up by 19 million in general for all Yemenis by December is devastating. And I think remembering how big

numbers are, as elementary as that sounds, is pretty important from time to time, because I think at this point we are kind of unfazed by numbers. But let me continue from the World Food Program's website really quick and wrap this all up. The humanitarian situation in Yemen is extremely fragile and any disruption of the pipeline of critical supplies such as food, fuel, and medicines has the potential to bring millions of people closer to starvation and death. The WFP calls for unimpeded access to reach those most in need and avert famine. So here we are in a quick, very depressing summary. Since 2016, a food insecurity crisis has been ongoing in Yemen, and this began during the Yemeni civil war. The current level of hunger in Yemen is unprecedented

and is causing severe hardship for millions of people. And despite ongoing humanitarian assistance, 17.4 million Yemenis at this point in time are food insecure. And this number of food insecure people is projected to go up by 19 million by December 2022. Maybe I'm being repetitive, but I think it's important to comprehend. The crisis in Yemen is one of the most dire crises in the world. And this is brought on by protracted conflict, droughts, floods that are intensified by the climate crisis, COVID-19, and other diseases. And despite all of this tragedy that we've been talking about, all of this tragedy that we've been talking about, despite this humanitarian criminal thing that is happening, Yemen has failed to attract adequate support from donors for years, and now it risks slipping further into oblivion. What a terrible, depressing way to end this podcast. But I really

do hope that these episodes at least gave you more awareness about what's going on in Yemen and just how dire the situation is. And there are so many conflicts in the world. There are so many causes that deserve our attention, obviously. But I do think it's important from time to time to think about the causes that you may not be affected by. And remember that everyone is human just like you and the privilege that you may not be affected by. And remember that everyone is human just like you and the privilege that you have, if you choose to engage with your privilege and use it for good, can make a huge difference to people that need assistance. At this point, I'm going to start rambling. So before I do that, I just want to thank you for paying attention to my professory talk and saying

that office hours are now closed. Goodbye. Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week from now until the heat death of the universe. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow Broth. Thanks for listening. the most terrifying legends and lords of Latin America. Listen to Nocturno on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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