It Could Happen Here - Militant Kindergarten: Education for Adults

Episode Date: December 18, 2023

Mia talks with Carl Eugene Stroud and Reed Ingalls from the Center for Especifismo Studies about the importance of theoretical work to complement organizing and their Militant Kindergarten program.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking musica, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia,

and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Calls on Media. Welcome to It Could Happen Here, Call zone media. moon did successfully produce functioning audio software it's wonderful uh yeah and with me to celebrate this is carl eugene stroud he's a language teacher and anarchist militants and reed angles who's a bus driver and an anarchist member of the center for specific studies yeah both of you welcome to the show thanks for having us yeah thank you for having us for this wonderful

celebration of audio recording technology it's all great it's all wonderful uh speaking of things that are wonderful this is this is this is why they pay me the uh am i am i legally allowed to say that it's uh below market rate so why they pay me the slightly below market rate bucks yeah so speaking of wonderful we are here to talk about a, I guess, putting things back together project, which is Militant Kindergarten. And I guess we should start with talking about what Militant Kindergarten is

and what it isn't in terms of like, it's not, we're teaching small children how to take apart buildings. Yeah, so Mil militant kindergarten is a multi-month study of a text. And, uh, in that way, you know, we call it a seminar, but it's not that much different than a reading group or a study circle or any of those kinds of things. Essentially what we're doing is we're using one text to revisit and have conversations with different people that are at various, you know, points in the path of radicalization. We're, you know,

distinctly trying to spread the word about the importance and necessity of militancy in our movements, but also teach people about a specifismo, which is an anarchist current that comes out of Latin America. But it's also like, you know, in the socialist movement, anarchists can often be characterized by stereotypes that come from Marxists and that in the libertarian and anarchist movement, any kind of mass anarchism, any kind of class struggle anarchism can also be characterized by, you know, individualists and insurrectionists. And so we mean to, you know, not convert people to a certain current of anarchism. We see this as a kind of grouping of tendencies. So all the participants come from different ideologies. This is just a reading group. So you've got to apply this stuff, you know, outside of this. This isn to uh be the first step in some like process that we're just already on but at the same time we think that educational space needs to be defended

uh that's why this is the third militant kindergarten so um yeah maybe i'll let reed talk about some of the ones and how we've gotten here um and yeah kindergarten up to now yeah sure i think that's a good explanation the group basically started off in the wonderful amazing complicated year 2020 in in the wake of the uprising over the summer both of us live in a relatively small town with maybe an outsize hundreds above its weight in terms of like activism and anarchism there's there's probably more anarchist tendencies here than there are anarchists and something that we saw in the wake of the height of the uprisings was, one, a huge amount of burnout that people weren't really addressing. The solution to burnout that we saw being proposed was just do it again, more, harder.

And we also saw the burnout as kind of coming from a lack of strategy and organization on the ground. People sort of repeating tactics because that's what you do and that's what we were doing. So we're just going to try to keep doing it. And both of us were unable to participate in the more aggressive street actions that were going on at the time. So we decided we individually needed to study and get better at our understanding of strategy and organization and try to rethink some of the problems that had occurred and how to move on from there. And also to provide a space for people who are more active in different places, the chance to meet together and reflect in a non-urgent space where you could just like pause and learn and discuss a topic.

So we were, yeah, we hit upon, we were both kind of simultaneously interested in the assessmentceso-thesimal current from Latin America. So we both just kind of decided, yeah, we want to read some of these texts. And we quickly came upon social anarchism and organization. We felt like, wow, this is a really comprehensive introduction, not only to this tendency, but also to anarchism

and social anarchism broadly. Like it really covers just the basic anarchist principles and theory up to history and organizational theory, strategy, tactics, ideology in a much higher, more sophisticated and like, I guess like modernized way than many other previous documents we'd read. It's like if you took the platform, the Machnavis platform. We should explain what that

is because a lot of people are not going to. Yeah. Going back. It's the organizational platform of the Anarchist Federation of Rio de Janeiro, which is basically their foundational document. And it's a very comprehensive look at the kind of theory and strategy and work that goes on behind founding an organization like that. It's similar to the anarchist platform written by the Magnavists in exile in Paris,

the Ukrainian anarchists in exile after the revolution in Russia. They wrote this platform saying anarchists should maybe be somewhat organized and unified in their tactics and their strategies and received a whole bunch of pushback from it, but founded the sort of platform as current of anarchism. the platform there's not a ton there it's more of a document for organizing a like a military force in a already ongoing revolution whereas what we found in social anarchism and organization is it's a much more broad kind of introduction to social anarchist organization that is more widely applicable to a variety of situations yeah and you know okay so we've covered a specific mo on here with andrew

once i think we've talked about it a little bit in some other episodes but yeah do we want to get into what what about a specific mo is sort of different from older kinds of like well just like other anarchist tendencies and other sort of kinds of platformism and talk a little bit about how it sort of came about because it's it's one of the tendencies i guess that some people adopted in the u.s but i don't i don't think it's as famous as a lot of other tendencies here. Yes. So, you know, a lot of the motivation behind organizing the Center for Especifismo Studies, this came after us studying this text a few times locally, we decided to formalize this into Militant Kindergarten. And a lot of that came from

the need to articulate what is Especifismo in English, because a lot of the resources, a lot of the ideas and writings come from Latin America. And so they're written in Spanish. A lot of the theory has been developed in Spanish. Especifismo originally comes from the Anarchist Federation of Uruguay. In the 1960s, they began to articulate a kind of organizational strategy that imagined what the way we've described it is kind of two rails for a train. And this train is bringing this revolutionary rupture. So these two rails are the social level, which includes all kinds of class struggle. This is class struggle against domination, exploitation and oppression. And that the other rail is the political organization. And so this is the anarchist principles and ideologies that, yeah,

I think we share probably pretty broadly with most all anarchist currents, at least, you know, coming out of the socialist movement. But when it comes to the way to balance these and to keep them both working toward the same ends, we see a need to keep them theoretically distinct. And so a lot of what we've done at the Center for Especifismo Studies is try to articulate these ideas in English so that we can start to develop what that means here and not just sort of translate or take a translation and sort of try to input an idea into our own context. So like you said, like, I think that some of the, we could, we could take, for example, the Black Rose Rosa Negra Anarchist Federation in the U.S. That's the largest organization of Especifist anarchists in North America.

They are distinctly influenced by this current. They have sister organizations in Latin America. organizations in Latin America. And, um, but, but, uh, they're, they're just one kind of, uh, organization that's, that's kind of known on a national level. And as far as planting, it's, you know, uh, ideas in North America, we're definitely still doing that work. So a lot of what we've done is also develop second hand, uh, secondary resources. This includes like audio versions of this text, but also like things we've produced through our study and through these discussions that come out of kindergarten.

So last year, for example, we made a mini zine. There was like a kind of working group that worked on a mini zine to define some basic terms and make something really, really, really basic and introductory to a specifismo. We also I've written a few pamphlets, one of which is how do you say a specifismo in English? And so that is, yeah, exactly trying to address this, this idea. And, you know, some people, they, they hear a specifismo and they're like, oh, that's, you know, exotic and cool and like new. And that's a reason to be attracted to it. But then, you know, other people might hear that and they have kind of other reactions where they sort of try to put it into a really specific box. I mean, what our understanding is, is that it's important to be able to acknowledge what current you're kind of plugging into, where your ideas are coming from. It takes a lot of pressure off of us to not feel like we're inventing everything and we're supposed to be coming up with like the most perfect, cool ideas. But it's also a humbling experience of like, yeah, we know about this because other people have done this militancy before us to make these things available for us

to have preserved these ideas. That's the political level of the two rails, right? So that is preserving this so that it is possible to say, I have this opinion about a specifismo and it relates to my context in this way, or likewise that it doesn't. If we don't have anyone doing that militancy to preserve those ideas, then it's actually not even up to people to be able to pick them up and use them the way

that they see fit. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse

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now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. One of the sort of barriers is, I I think kind of what you're alluding to of like the specifismo as a tendency in the US is that it wasn't like it wasn't really it wasn't developed in the American context. And that has different sort of, you know, that that has that that that has sort of like a range of different effects. And one of the things that I think is very interesting about it that I think is definitely a product of the context that it was developed in is the strategy of social insertion. Yeah, and I was wondering if you could talk a bit about social insertion and how you see that working in the U.S. and how sort of, like, how do we think about this sort of in the wake of 2020 and the kind of restructuring of what is sort of happening inside about social insertion. For anyone who doesn't know, it's just the practice of anarchists who are organized in the same organization,

being present in social movements within them, supporting them, trying to help them achieve their own goals, rather than take them over or something like you would see in maybe an entryism from Tracteus or something. But yeah, I think one of the major problems that we ran into when we started reading this stuff is like social insertion requires there to even be social movements.

Yeah, that was an issue in the US for a long time because we didn't really have social movements in the way that Latin America does. Right. Or when we we do they're like extremely spontaneous or kind of chaotic or they're also they could be extremely co-opted or managed by a political party democrats some socialist group republicans whoever and so that's kind of one of our major sort of projects of theoretical translation into North America. You can't just plug this into North America and say, okay, we're going to go join X social movement to achieve these goals and obtain this amount

of influence there. And we really have to start. I think what is useful about that problem is that it forces us to start really trying to theorize what actually is happening here, what social movement actually is there. And that leads us to start thinking about things more literally like movement. What does it mean to be moving? What is the role of anarchists in movement? So we can think of an idea that we've developed is the idea of anarchists who are organized as anarchists. The role of them in movement is to actually literally be moving between different kinds of spaces, different movements, be moving between different kinds of spaces, different movements, and starting through their movement to generate a kind of flow of people and of ideas and energy and momentum, acting as a small motor within a big system, if you will, not driving it, but getting things

going. And so I think that's kind of more the level that we're at here in the U.S. is we still need to just theorize what is out there and how can we help it? How can we plug into it? How can we start getting things moving in a direction that is actually going to meet the needs of these movements or these movements that aren't yet articulated well. You see this with the rise of tenant unions and tenant organizing, still in a very nascent stage, but people are seeing that need and they're starting to get that moving from a variety of socialist tendencies. And I think, yeah, the idea is important in this context

because we have to be finding these spaces, we have to be moving to them, and we have to be returning to our own spaces to be able to actually understand what we're encountering out there and figure out how to adjust course or move to something else or adapt to a new situation yeah like maybe uh similar to reed said there this idea that um the politics need to be moving that anarchism needs to be a movement and that in that way like we can't allow our ideas to be stuck in certain, you know, just stations or

organizations or spaces that are friendly or that we're really familiar with. We need to be able to engage those ideas in the relevant spaces where we do live, that looks really different in different parts across the U.S. and North America. So the idea that, you know, we would be able to just simply take one thing and apply it across the board would also like, yeah, be really limited here. And so I think a lot of what we've seen in terms of the utility of especificismo as an influential current in the politics, in leftist politics in North America, is this theoretical aspect and how we can see both, like we learn more about social movements, more about the necessity of them being popular, more about popular power.

And at the same time as in doing that, that shows us more about what is political unity, what is, you know, unity of strategy, what is unity of theory, what is unity of commitment. And those things we want to, as we keep learning about them individually, that goes back to this train idea of there being two rails is we need them to be on independent cycles. You know, we know that, that social movements don't last forever, that mobilizations and, you know, insurrections will fade away, that there are ebbs and flows of the engagement. And that when we're talking about a massive popular level, we should expect that even more, right? Plenty of people will only, even if they're engaging militantly, only be engaging militantly with

social movements, not with political ideas, not with political organization. And so the idea that something needs to endure, someone even needs to be able to tell the story from the last time that things got spicy so that we understand even what happened without even necessarily having the critique or the analysis, even just simply the retelling is something that is grossly missing from our struggles in North America. And so that's where we see like there being a complete absence of political organizing, and especially when we think about being on an entirely different cycle. So that kind of goes back to kindergarten being an annual thing. And, you know, where we live, like in the winter,

there's not a lot you can do. And so it kind of made sense to develop a seasonal pattern of this, right? Where like, exactly as things are dying down, it's kind of like, well, the people who do still have capacity, the people who are still attempting to be active, how can we keep that little bit of movement moving and going? The idea of the metaphor

of a small engine, a small motor is often used in a specifismo. And that's what the political level is trying to be, is a small motor, just assisting in something larger that's happening, but it needs to be connected to something larger that's happening. Yeah. And I think a key part of this for us that we've found is that in our context, there exists sort of these two levels to some extent, there are political organizations and there are social movements,

but what is often missing like we were struggling with this trying to find the way into one or the other and what we discovered is that like this kind of educational tendency of really open, really educational, really discussion-based learning kind of starts to generate that movement between the two. By having this space open to beginners and experts, so to speak, you're able to actually get more movement open between the two. So it opens up political organizations, people who have not participated in that before, don't have a way into it. And it opens up social movement to people who may be politicized, but are not organized in some sort of social. And it starts to mix everything together in this learning space where we can build trust as a learning community and assist each other in connecting these kind of two necessary levels of organization. I've been thinking a lot about how you were talking about how we don't have any

kind of organizational continuity between movements and the kind of disorganization and the loss of just memory that happens with that and i think it's one of these weird things because you can find people who've been in like all of these movements but if you're relying on just you know okay well you you can you can get the story of what really happened in occupy oakland if you know exactly like the right four people and you can't like you can't say their names because like like you know i and i mean and this is this has always sort of been a problem with parts of social movements because i mean there's stuff that necessarily has to be clandestine like you know there's reasons for operational security but also just means that stuff gets lost and yeah i think having having a like

having a thing that goes as a way to transmit got a thing that goes wow incredibly technical language you know but having having an organization that can act as a bridge between these sort of moments and also is able to sort of you know allow people spaces for discussion for reflection for learning that's also sort of a bridge between like a like I don't know I guess like capital P political organization and the social stuff is

it's a really interesting idea and yeah I don't know I think I don't know I think I think this is a very cool project and yeah I'm looking forward to seeing what else comes out of it as the new session sort of approaches yeah I think what you're just

saying about like how do you learn about what happened to Occupy Oakland without having to go through like three layers of signal chats or something to find the right person to learn from anonymously being as preface with allegedly this happened. It's a real problem that we've, we've thought about.

Like I think a big thing for us that we've found is a role that we can play is that there is a need out there for there to be some sort of, we call it mask-off anarchism. Like, there needs to be a public-facing, approachable space where you can actually just learn about stuff. And yeah, there is definitely a need for operational security culture or for clandestine things. But those things don't need to be everything. For those to even exist, you need levels that are more open to people. Otherwise, those things just become increasingly lost. They go down the memory hole, as they say,

or the Latin American groups like to talk about anarchism becoming ghettoized further and further, like separated from mainstream society. And there's no way in unless you like, you know, a guy. So that was something that was a problem we were encountering and something that like from our particular circumstances, we felt like we could provide and maybe start modeling for people as a group. is we felt like we could provide and maybe start modeling for people as a group. I think also, like you mentioned there, like this idea of memory and what Black Rose has referred to in their program as muscle memory, like for our organizations. This idea that like, I mean, organizing seems so mysterious to us because we don't have this like kind of active like uh

living memory of of how to do that it's not just a thing we do by second nature like without without a um really needing a lot of work and so i think in in that sense like um we could also think of there being two two kinds of struggles going on where like on the social level, the struggle is the class struggle and the antagonists are the dominant people in society. It is the ruling class. It is the status quo. It is the capitalist system. the capitalist system. But on the political level, there's also struggle because it's not about everybody, you know, just being one uniform block. It is about that struggle, though, not being trying to topple each other, but instead trying to develop and create unity. It's not find unity. It's not look for the people you have the most consensus with because that in itself is even really limiting. That we need to be able to form

new agreement. We need to be able to find and struggle for that unity with people who aren't trying to just aim for a divisive end. There needs to be an antagonist on the social level, but on the political level, the goal is unity. It's not struggle for the sake of taking down the opponent. And so in that sense, something else that we do in Militant Kindergarten and in the Center for Especifismo Studies is not just try to do a reading, but try to produce a reading, try to leave behind some kind of trace of our reading. That's an important aspect of this. So all of our sessions, we take thorough notes and those notes are available to all the participants. People can go back through it later to look at what was said if they missed a session or if they'd like to follow along with those as the conversation goes to help add other aspects of support.

Then what we do is we have a whole other team that goes through those notes afterward and produces a kind of internal journalistic write up of what happened in that meeting. internal journalistic write-up of what happened in that meeting. And so we will also be releasing those this year as part of our monthly publishing that we'll be doing. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry

veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse, and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong though, I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black

Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

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So for people who are interested in this, when is it happening and how do you get involved? It starts on January 13th and it runs till April 20th of next year, 2024. And we're going to be holding the session on Saturdays, 2 to 4 p.m. in Pacific time, U.S., which is not the greatest time for everybody, but it's where most of us are based, kind of on the edge of time here on the West Coast. And the best way to get involved is to just send us an email. We have the email especially most studies at gmail.com and that's the way to sort of start the enrolling process you just need to take the one step send us an email and we'll get you signed up and all the

materials and zoom link and all that stuff and we'll put the email in the description. You have probably links to the website too. I think on that note, unless you do have anything else that you want to say or plug? No, I think that's it. Good breath. I would like to see people there. It's going to be

an interesting year. I can guarantee that. Yeah, like the literal year 2024, who knows what's going to happen. And even kindergarten is going to be pretty interesting. We've had a lot more people contacting us than last year. So it's going to be a pretty big and diverse group. So it'll be interesting to see kind of what everybody is able to produce out of that, that gathering and learning space. Yeah. You know, maybe, maybe another thing just to say real quick is just that even if somebody doesn't feel like they could make that time, uh, it's still worth reaching out to us. Um,

we, you know, we'll be developing other, other seminars and things in the future. And, um, if you don't think that you'd be able to make it to all the sessions, like, don't worry about that either. That's part of why we do this every year is that we expect that, you know, working people without a lot of time will need more than one year to, you know, get all this information. So we expect people to need to kind of be cobbling together a few sessions here and there for for several times and yeah you're definitely welcome to do that and shouldn't feel as if it's like a kind of start and then you're stuck and afraid to start so yeah yeah it's a

sort of an endurance study group so just yeah we don't want anyone burning themselves now just do what you can start together and together yeah it sounds like it's going to be a great program and yeah excited excited to see what comes out of it and yeah if you want if you want to get your theoretical stuff in before fighting season presumably starts again around the election uh yeah now is the time it's gonna be really chaotic for the next like long time so this is your opportunity now

yeah we'll need some good ideas to arm ourselves with this one it's gonna be rough yep and yeah on that note this has been NickItHappened here you can find us on twitter and Instagram at CoolZoneMedia, etc, etc. Yeah, go into the world and learn and then use that to make the world less god awful. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions.

Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season

digging into Tex Elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from.

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