It Could Happen Here - Myanmar: Printing the Revolution, Part 4

Episode Date: March 10, 2022

The conclusion of our series on the civil war in Myanmar. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Robert Evans, and this is part four of Myanmar,

printing the revolution. And then once we got there, we couldn't rest, you know, rain, sun, whatever. Women as well, we were all like tried when they came when we were leaving they were all like very fair skin beautiful and then we went in and then everyone got tanned in the jungle we were training all the time you know people in training camp were driven really hard and the reason that we were all doing this is because of minnan line's coup as students and how much he has terrorized the

public and the people and that's why we were we have this morale and ability to get through the training and be able to wield weapons zora and his friends went into the jungle as students, programmers and kids. Now they're fighters. They were tech-savvy young people, he says. They grew up online, and that generational divide which the internet brought here came much later in Myanmar. It wasn't until 2011 that people really gained access to the internet, and with it, the new ideas and identities that it brought. Zor's generation are among the first to embrace global connectivity and now after having it taken away they're refusing to give it up. The start of the coup in February the military well Gen Z was organizing online social media

and all that so and they were kind of i think this is from my experience but um i'm kind of um organizing around like gen z is going to be different than the 88 generation because we have the internet and also we know more about the world and can communicate to the rest of the world i think one thing that was big was that in 2008, it just took one video leaking out of the country for there to be big international repercussions. It's worth noting that when people in Burma talk about the internet, they mean Facebook. Phones come with a Facebook app installed, and it's sometimes exempt from data charges. For many people in Burma, using the internet means using Facebook.

Zohr and his friends are different from their parents in many ways, not least in their perceptions of authority. This has led to a situation where the PDF, or People's Defence Force units, are much less hierarchical than units of the Tatmadaw. So when we make decisions in our group, there's no master and student, there's no master and student. There's no teacher and student, but the way that it works, there are people who are good.

There are older people who are more trained. And then there are new recruits, new people who just came in. So, of course, the people who are there for longer and know more about the situation have more voice when we discuss so especially people who were there when we founded this group there were only really eight people from when we grouped so those eight people kind of discussed on the bigger strategy you know we don't really vote there We don't really vote. He says he wants to do it.

He thinks it's good. There's the seven of us. We think it's good or we support him. Or someone says, well, we don't really like that idea. Then we don't do it. They try to achieve more gender equality as well. Although Zor explained that in his unit, the women are not always the frontline fighters.

At the place, there's no discrimination, you know, women can women and men were training whoever could come. But like on the battlefield, people, we don't use women that much on the battlefield. That one thing that we do know is that is not it's not really discrimination. But if women are with us together, we have a confusion about whether we need to protect them or we're just fighting with them or they're fighting in front of us. One thing that is very different is that in terms of mentality, we, we can't, we never take the women out really far into very dangerous fights. So often they're in the back as backup or to supplies or things like that. But as you know, the military government, the military terrorists are very, very unethical. They don't follow the rules.

So, you know, they're going to shoot whoever they see. So even if they're hanging back and they're sending medical supplies, they can still get hit. For Zohra in particular, there's a lot at stake. After almost an hour and a half of talking, I asked about his parents. I'd heard of retribution attacks against the families of fighters and wondered if he was worried about that. So mom and dad are both, they support me fighting against the military. They're very happy. Dad really wants to do CDM, but he can't run away because the military has taken his mother and his sisters he still has five sisters

they're all still in that military command their work they're in the military school schools so it's very hard for them to run away yeah right his dad got defect so he really wants to leave the military but he can't so well so that the fact that i am there trying to fight against the military he's very happy and but he tells me to be careful about my own life they're supportive and they really want to come fight themselves but they can't because of my sisters and my mother. So in seeing that I can do it, it's really wonderful for them. So his father, his other brother and other people, three of them below him,

they've all usually just lived together with his grandfather and stuff in the military compounds or near the military. So he really wants to call all the people that are still there, but they can't leave. This is what civil war does. It traps us in a situation where we can't make the right choice, even when we know what it is. And in many situations, it's pretty hard to discern right from wrong in the midst of so much violence. many situations, it's pretty hard to discern right from wrong in the midst of so much violence. Zor has been able to fight, but his dad is stuck fighting against people like his son in order to protect his daughters. Thousands of families across the country are divided in the same way, by circumstance or ideology. The military is something of a separate society.

It has its own schools and its own culture. But ethnic armed organizations have not been close to urban populations either, and so whole new identities have been forged by Generation Z, while their families often struggle to abandon old certainties. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you.

Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. As we record this, Zaw is still fighting. His girlfriend is still healing. Every few weeks, a video of him and his friends pops up on Reddit or Facebook.

They have optics on their rifles now and are taking long-range shots at the Tatmadaw, who rely on iron sights. They shoot and reload like soldiers, and they laugh like kids. The Tatmadaw still controls the cities, but to move between them they have to travel in convoys at breakneck speeds. Using ambushes, mines, and knowledge of the terrain, EAOs and the PDF are able to deny the military access to large portions of the countryside. Without a serious change in the conflict, it might stay like this for years.

A report published this month detailed the attacks in the conflict, it might stay like this for years. A report published this month detailed the attacks in the Kareni state by the Tatmadaw on churches, residential homes, camps for displaced people, which killed 61 in the months since Zaw left the city. On Christmas Eve, in Hupruso township, they killed at least 40 civilians. Autopsies show some were gagged and burned alive. In recent months, the Tatmadaw has increased its use of airstrikes against targets that it deems legitimate. Ming An Hlaing, the junta's leader, flew to Russia twice in 2021. He was proclaimed an honorary professor of the Military University of the Russian Armed Forces. Quote, we are determined to continue our efforts to strengthen

bilateral ties based on June 22nd, We pay special attention to this meeting as we see Myanmar as a time-tested strategic partner and a reliable ally in Southeast Asia and the Asia-Pacific region, he went on. Min Aung Hlaing was equally lavish with his praise, saying that he saw Russia as a friend forever. Myanmar relies heavily on Russian Hind Mi-35 helicopter gunships, transport helicopters, MiG-29 and Su-30 fighter jets and Yak-130 ground attack aircraft to carry out bombing raids and strafe civilians. All of these weapon systems have been seen more recently in the fighting in Ukraine. One prominent Burmese-Irish family, the Kiatongs, has helped the junta avoid an international arms embargo

using their global connections and a network of shady shadow companies. They have purchased helicopters under the pretense of using them for tourism and the oil and gas industry, and handed them over to the Tatmadaw. They've also helped shuttle coastal radar to Myanmar, which the Tatmadaw use to track Rohingya refugees and provide cover for several aircraft purchases. To fund these arms purchases, the Tatmadaw has found willing markets for luxury goods abroad. According to Justice for Myanmar, since the coup in February 2021, the United States has imported 1,565 metric tons of

teak from Myanmar, using intermediaries to avoid sanctions. In the 2017-2018 financial year, the last year for which data is available, the government received $100 million in revenue from taxes and royalties applied to the timber trade. In 2021, there were more shipments than 2018, offering the Tatmadaw the chance to make enough money to continue purchasing weapons to use against their population. The conflict in Myanmar remains complicated. It's easy to reduce the alphabet soup of rebel groups to EAOs in the PDF, but these groups and their motivations are diverse. Pierre explained to us that even within the Karen, there are deep divisions. Well, first you have to know that historically, the Karen rebellion that started in 1948, 1949,

so quite a long time ago, was led by the Christian minority of the Karen people, because obviously that was the most Western educated people at the time. And so this elite kind of reproduced itself in the KNU without being... the current national union is a democratic movement but you know elites tend to reproduce themselves and so most of the leadership let's say of the current national union and the current national liberation army was Christian.

And so the Burmese junta, the Burmese military government decided to use this to create a wedge between the current Christians and the current Buddhists, and sent monks to, say, agitate and try to cause this split on religious grounds. And they succeeded in part, and succeeded to separate a part of Karen Buddhist that created the democratic Karen Buddhist arm, DKBA, which then allied themselves, of course, to the

junta, and to attack the to attack the KNLA and the Manor Claw, which of course they knew all the roads there and the differences and where was the difference situated, etc. And succeeded in destroying the capital of the current National Union in Manor Claw in 1995. So that was the situation pretty much when I arrived it was pretty hard like there was not so much territory anymore held by the Karen and more importantly they lost a lot of income because a lot of their income

comes from tax at the border that they can control, you know. So, yeah, that was the situation. Not every EAO has embraced the National Unity Government directly. After all, many of its members were enthusiastically running cover for the Rohingya genocide a few years ago. Many of the EAOs remain, technically under a ceasefire with the Tatmadaw, and the Tatmadaw knows that if it pushes too far into EAO territory, it risks provoking a full-blown response. The EAOs, meanwhile, have been aiding and training the PDF and still maintaining enough deniability

that the Tatmadaw has not been forced into a confrontation. EAO-PDF alliances look different in different regions, and often realities on the ground bear little relationship to the backdoor diplomacy and official stances embraced by leadership and public. The war continues to have a huge toll on civilians. According to the United Nations, in total some 440,000 people have been newly displaced since the coup happened in February 2021, adding to an existing 370,000 who had fled their homes from earlier waves of violence and over a million people who had fled the Rohingya genocide.

More than half the population of Kareli state has fled. Humanitarian access is hard. Much of the relief effort for displaced people occurs within local communities. Thousands of refugees are camping along the border with Thailand, which is defined by rivers. Initially, many people fled into Thailand, but terrible conditions in refugee camps led some of them to return to Myanmar. Now they wade across the river for international aid donations of food and water, but they can't bring themselves to stay in the crowded camps overnight, so they wade back to sleep on the Burmese side of the bank. The UNHCR, the High Commission on

Refugees, has been unable to access camps in Thailand or Myanmar to check on the conditions, but it has urged the Thai government, which has been credibly accused of forcing people back across the border, to move people to better conditions further into Thailand instead of keeping them in camps near the border. And here we find the unfortunate, unavoidable reality of the civil war in Myanmar. For all the uniqueness of aspects of the conflict, the innovative ways that Gen Z militias have interfaced with older ethnic military forces, the 3D printed arms, etc. At the end of the day, this is another brutal, horrific conflict between large numbers of people who want to be free and a small number of people who want to control them. From Myanmar to Armenia, Ukraine to Syria, Ethiopia to Iraq,

and beyond, the novelties of 21st century conflict don't change the fact that at the end of the day, each war brings with it what might be the truest symbol of our current age. Parents saying goodbye to their kids, camps filled with death-brought people fleeing violence, and governments all over the world willing to send nothing more than kind words and stern warnings. nothing more than kind words and stern warnings. This is a postscript to episode four. It's not one that we'd been intending to record because it's not news that we'd ever hoped to have to share, but here we are.

Unfortunately, we found out that about ten days after we last spoke and a couple of weeks before we released our podcast, 10 days after we last spoke and a couple of weeks before we released our podcast, Zohr died. He died in battle fighting with the Tatmadaw. He really was, I suppose, an amazingly brave and courageous young man. And I think that his loss is one that reflects the realities of what war is, which is not great and glorious and exciting. It's young men and sometimes young women,

young non-binary folks, I imagine, too, dying when they had no quarrel with anyone, when they just wanted to live their lives. Two years ago, a year and a half ago even, he was just loving the people he loved, having fun, being a kid, riding his motorcycle, speaking to his girlfriend on his phone, living a happy life. And then someone who had power decided they wanted to have more power. And they decided that it didn't matter how many kids had to die so they could have what they want. And he decided to say no to that. And that's brave. And I think all of us would agree that what he did was right and morally courageous and that, uh, that we would

hope to be brave enough to do the same if the same thing happened to us. Um, this one's hit me quite hard, honestly. Um, I know this is my job and this happens, it's happened before and it'll happen again, but, uh, he was such a happy, polite, kind young man man he never didn't pick up the phone he never got tired of explaining stuff that we didn't understand um and he always answered our questions there was nothing that was off the table there was nothing that he wouldn't talk about with us he was completely open um and uh yeah we will miss him greatly um he died fighting the thing that we all have to fight right fascism dictatorship totalitarianism militarization um and uh yeah we'll we'll grieve his loss. Both Robert and I, we've just spoken on the phone and we

found out because the contact of mine on the ground sent me a Reddit message with a link to a Facebook post. And it's very clearly Zorin, no doubt about that. It names him. Uh, and, uh, unfortunately it also shows, um, him dead. Uh, so we were not in any doubt that it was him who died. And we're not in any doubt that we will gravely miss him either. We both hoped to go over and record with him, to speak with him, to meet him. I'd spoken to him several times on video, sometimes just to chat, not even to record anything, just to chat, just to catch up and look at what each of us was doing that day. So it's a hard loss for me and for Robert too.

As I said, we've just spoken. So yeah, that's the news that we hadn't hoped to end on. Obviously, though, this is the reality of war. As the world is looking at the conflict in Ukraine, now I'd urge you to look at the conflict in Myanmar too. Another Russian bomb killed another nice kid who never had any quarrel with anyone, who just wanted to live his life

and didn't want to live the rest of his life with a boot on his neck. So he decided to stand up against it. As you can probably hear in my voice, I'm quite upset by his loss and will be probably for a few days. So I'm sorry to have to end this podcast on such a sad note. I'm sorry for his family who are now caught between the loss of their son and trying to protect their daughters. I'm sorry for his girlfriend who's dealing with shrapnel in her own leg and now the loss of the person she loved.

And I'm sorry for his comrades. They've said they'll go on fighting and I hope they do. And I don't think there's any point really pretending to be objective at this stage in the games and I hope they win. But I mostly just hope that like one day young men and women and everyone else just gets to live their lives without having to kill and die because ultimately no one should have to and no parents should have to bury their kids so yeah as much as we're all focusing on Ukraine and what's happening there is terrible please

don't forget Zor's comrades please don't forget his legacy um and please don't forget him uh we won't and we obviously want to dedicate this podcast to him and what he stood for so yeah thanks it could happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of right.

An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Lord of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.