It Could Happen Here - On The Ground In Palestine, Part 1
Episode Date: May 28, 2024Shereen talks with nurse and street medic Eva about her experience on the ground in Palestine.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information....
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Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show,
where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more.
After those runs, the conversations keep going.
That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.
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their journeys, and the thoughts that
arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app,
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Hello and welcome to It Could Happen Here.
This is Shireen, and today is part one of a two-part series where we talk to someone who was on the ground in Palestine,
in both Gaza and the West Bank.
I'm going to say Gaza because that's how you say it in Arabic,
but that means Gaza for those who are unfamiliar.
Ever since Israel began bombing the people of Gaza in October of last year,
it has been virtually impossible for aid to get into Gaza.
Both the Israeli government and its citizens, acting on their own initiative, have blocked aid convoys, destroyed life-saving medical and food aid, and harassed people for supplying aid.
Aid workers who even can get into Gaza have been bombed, shot at, and killed.
And it's not just aid that can't get into Gaza. It's extraordinarily hard for information to even get out. Cell phone signal is scarce, and understandably people there use it to contact
their families, not foreign journalists. So to get a good sense of what life is like on the ground in the Rafah,
we spoke to Ava, one of the mutual aid volunteers who, at great risk to her own life,
traveled into Gaza to help the people there. My name is Ava. I am a nurse and street medic.
I'm Jewish of European ancestry and was raised in the Pacific Northwest on the traditional lands of the
Chinook, Tualatin, Clackamas, and many other First Nations, what is commonly called Portland, Oregon.
Ava was able to send us some voice notes describing her day-to-day back in April.
She told us what she saw, what she experienced, what she heard. Understandably, there is some
background noise in some of this audio, but I personally think it helps ground us in the moment that she's experiencing. So here I am, the morning of Friday,
April 19th. This is the start of my second day in Gaza. I spent a full day yesterday at Al-Najjar
Hospital in the emergency department, getting introduced to the staff there, the work, the equipment,
the patterns of illness and injury, the shortages, the struggles, the pain,
the happiness was really quite beautiful and hard,
and a mashup of everything I've experienced in occupation,
things I've experienced as a new nurse to a floor,
and things I haven't experienced before,
which is being in a site of an active war zone and genocide.
On the Jhaar Hospital is located very close to the Rafah border crossing.
It's also, I guess, one of the areas more heavily impacted by violence right now in Rafah,
which is still much less so than areas to the north like Khan Yunis, etc.
We asked Ava to explain the situation in the Rafah at the time of this recording
and where she was within it.
The following conversation with Ava took place on April 29th.
I mean, I will first locate myself in Gaza, which is the only part of Gaza that I have
ever seen.
And I have only been in Gaza during the last two weeks.
I've been in Palestine twice.
This is my first time in this area.
And I haven't seen Alina gaza i haven't seen
i haven't you know seen the destruction up there and i think that that is from the people who i've
met who are refugees from those areas health care workers members of the public there's really
oh um yeah that's just a motor sorry there's a lot of rumblings
and things that happen
periodically
um
and a lot of them are explosions
that I think is just a motor
but
yeah
I mean it's
it's really interesting
because I arrived
at a moment
when food
stuff had just started
to cross in
a little bit more regularly
and I was told that
basically in the week
before like street markets had reoccurred which hadn't been a thing to cross in a little bit more regularly and i was told that basically in the week before
like street markets had reoccurred which hadn't been a thing for months and that's like a big
part of my experience in the west bank and so it was really great to see people even if it was just
like a little bit of food selling food on the street starting to see bread being baked and
distributed seeing people out and about was
exciting. There is rampant signs of destruction everywhere. There are lots of standing buildings,
but there are lots of piles of rubble in streets, the sites of former buildings. People have done a
remarkable job clearing space, but there's a sense of destruction everywhere.
And I think in some ways the most painful sites are where buildings aren't completely destroyed.
And you can see into people's bedrooms, kitchens, bathrooms, things like that.
See artwork still hanging.
See fragments of their homes and lives.
There are tent cities everywhere. I am currently speaking to you from within a house that is one of the houses that are rented by NGOs in the area,
generally people who have managed to escape Gaza
and who are renting their homes for a bit of income
and to decrease the likelihood their house will be bombed.
And in this particular house, we're in the neighborhood of Tel El-Sultan and there are
tent cities all around us. So it's one of those weird situations of staying in a somewhat palatial
home where there are people sleeping in very rudimentary tents and structures, sometimes completely uncovered in 100 plus degree weather.
I think the highest temperatures we've seen were a couple of days where it was about 40 degrees centigrade, which is about 107 Fahrenheit.
There are a lot of sick people, a lot of struggling people.
a lot of struggling people. Longtime listeners of the podcast will remember our interview with Tarek Lobani, one of the inventors of the 3D printed tourniquet, as well as the founder of
Glia, a medical aid charity. Ava, who was also a medical professional, is working with them in
Gaza. I've been working with an organization called Glia that works with primary care clinics and with maternity and like
neonatal clinics and has also been starting to work with at least one emergency department and
i've been working at the hospital al-nijar which is used to basically be a community tertiary
hospital uh with basically a urgent care clinic that has basically become the only remaining
general public emergency department in the RUH.
There are other,
there's like a maternity emergency department,
there's an emergency department run by MSF
and like these other ones,
but like this is the only like general public one.
And I've been there just, you know, for two weeks,
most every day. I took a day off
when I was sick and took off a day today to see some different parts of some other clinics,
which was a really good comparison. We asked Ava what kind of injuries she sees and what the
medical situation is like in the Raze. But I will say that it's wild, the variety of, you know,
injuries and illnesses that you'll see in that space.
That is true of any emergency department, but depending on the hours I have found during the day,
most of the illnesses and injuries are more usual, except exacerbated by the lack of resources,
lack of primary care resources, exacerbated by the lack of medications,
exacerbated by the lack of medications, exacerbated by the lack of clean water and sanitation,
occasionally injuries from bombings or shootings.
At night, when I have not been there,
I have heard of many missile strikes,
wiping out entire families,
large numbers of people martyred.
I've seen several people killed in that way coming to the emergency department, but in no way representative of what's been happening.
And it's been, by all accounts, better these weeks than it has been before, though the number of missile strikes and things are kind of increasing.
the number of missile strikes and things are kind of increasing. There has been word given that there is likely going to be evacuation orders starting in the next in this like next few days
to a week from the Israelis, but no signs of an immediate incursion. That said, we don't know.
Most people are pretty hopeful that that I've talked to that a ceasefire will be reached,
although it's unclear what that would mean.
But I can say from my time working in these hospitals
that I'm just being in the community
that like most people are hanging on by a thread,
whether they have just gotten something very loosely resembling
a hint of stability of like having a place where they are,
having access to food there are children
playing there are you know some some of the signs of life that i'm used to seeing in palestine
there are emergency departments um that are somewhat functional they're like my colleague
is working at a NICU where it's always full but they are able to care for the babies that are
there even not as well as they would like to but like they are able to um if this population is displaced again which is what the
israelis are suggesting um in this case towards han unis which they've leveled and they are trying
to get the international community to set up 10 cities there that will kill a lot of people that will tear apart a lot of what little people had left so very
very difficult in that way um that said it's also more alive than i expected um there's more
signs of daily life of children playing of people making and serving coffee in the street of
a couple bakeries that are producing you know all those pieces like falafel sands, like those things exist.
Cost of food are atrocious. We don't buy food here, but I'm aware of some of the prices and they are much higher than they would be in the West Bank where food is, you know, on embargo.
For those who aren't super familiar, the West Bank refers to the West Bank
of Jordan. It stretches across the eastern border of Israel along the west banks of the Jordan River
and most of the Dead Sea. It was designated as its own region when Israel established itself
and ethnically cleansed Palestine in 1948, but it has been eaten away to a massive amount.
1948, but it has been eaten away to a massive amount. In 1967, it was occupied during the Six Day War, and during the 1970s and 80s, Israel began establishing settlements there, which was
and is still illegal under international law. And even with protests from the international community,
Israel continues, still today, to establish settlements on Palestinian land. The first major Arab uprising,
aka the First Intifada, also referred to as the Stone Intifada, began in 1987 in the Gaza Strip
and spread to the West Bank. It ended in 1993 with the signing of the First Oslo Accords.
The Second Intifada, also known as the Al-Aqsa Intifada, was another major Arab uprising by Palestinians against the Israeli occupation.
During the 2010s, the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority worked toward establishing itself as an independent government in the urban Palestinian areas of the West Bank.
At the same time, Israel expanded its settlement activity in the territory.
time, Israel expanded its settlement activity in the territory. Fatah, formerly the Palestinian National Liberation Movement, is a Palestinian nationalist and social democratic political party.
It is the largest faction of the confederated multi-party Palestine Liberation Organization
and the second largest party in the Palestinian Legislative Council.
Fatah has been closely identified with the leadership of its
founder and chairman, Yasser Arafat, who was elected chairman of the PLO in Cairo in February
1969 until his death in 2004. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show,
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In May 2021, Palestinian families in Sheikh Jarrah, a neighborhood in occupied East Jerusalem,
began protesting against Israel's plan to forcibly evict them from their homes to make way for Jewish settlers.
Many of the families were refugees, who had settled in Sheikh Jarrah after being forcibly displaced around the time of Israel's establishment as a state in 1948.
Since Israel occupied East Jerusalem and the rest of the West Bank in 1967, Palestinians in Sheikh Jarrah had been continuously targeted by Israeli authorities,
who used discriminatory laws to systematically dispossess Palestinians of their land and homes for the benefit of Jewish Israelis. The events of May 2021 were emblematic of the oppression
which Palestinians have faced every day for decades. The discrimination, the dispossession,
and the repression of dissent, the killings and injuries, They are all a part of a system which is designed to privilege
Jewish Israelis at the expense of Palestinians. This is apartheid, which is, as you should know,
prohibited in international law. In 2021, Amnesty International reported that Israel imposes a
system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control,
in Israel and the occupied
Palestinian territories, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Israelis. Laws,
policies, and practices which are intended to maintain a violent system of control over
Palestinians have left them fragmented geographically and politically, frequently
impoverished, and in a constant state of fear
and insecurity, with no freedom of movement or freedoms, period. And then there's Israel's
apartheid wall, which began as a fence along the border between the West Bank and what is called
Israel. It was first constructed by Israel in 1971 as a security barrier, and it has been rebuilt
and upgraded since. It was constructed
by Israel to control the movement of the Palestinian population, as well as goods
between the Gaza Strip and Israel. So, that's some history on the West Bank.
And just for some context, 2023 was the deadliest year for Palestinians since the United Nations
Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian
Affairs, aka OCHA, began recording casualties in 2005. Since the Gaza genocide began, Israel has
stepped up military raids in the West Bank, where violence had already been surging for over a year.
UN records show that Israeli forces or settlers have killed hundreds of Palestinians in the West Bank
since October 7th. In 2023, at least 507 Palestinians were killed, including at least
81 children. Between October 7th and December 31st, 2023, 299 Palestinians were killed in the
West Bank, marking a 50% increase compared to the first nine months of
the year. According to the World Health Organization, since October 7th, 474 Palestinians,
including 116 children, have been killed in the West Bank, including occupied East Jerusalem,
and about 5,000 were injured. There are many days where Israeli forces killed Palestinians, but I'm going
to refer to a couple just to give you a general idea of the violence that Palestinians experience.
On March 21st, there was a day when Israeli forces killed three Palestinians in separate
incidents in the occupied West Bank, resulting in 10 Palestinians killed in the territory over
a 24-hour period. This was reported by the Palestinian news agency
Wafah. On April 20th, Israeli forces killed 14 Palestinians during a raid in the occupied West
Bank, including an ambulance driver, who was killed as he went to pick up wounded Palestinians
from a separate attack by violent Israeli settlers. Erika Guevara-Rosas, Amnesty International's Director of Global Research,
Advocacy, and Policy, said, carrying out unlawful killings and displaying a chilling disregard for Palestinian lives. These unlawful killings are in blatant violation of international human rights law
and are committed with impunity in the context of maintaining Israel's institutionalized regime,
the systematic oppression and domination over Palestinians.
Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show,
where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs,
the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a
chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories,
their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together.
You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic
happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow,
and admire, join me every week for Post Run High.
It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all.
It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app,
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, or wherever you get your podcasts. We'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works
while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them.
Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers
and to bring their words to life.
Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app,
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Because Ava has experience in both Gaza and the West Bank,
I wanted to ask what she witnessed while in the West Bank.
Here's Ava telling us about her experience.
Specifically, I was working with the International Solidarity Movement,
which is the same group I worked with when I was in Palestine 12 years ago. and that's basically exactly what it sounds like.
It's a vaguely anarchist, inter-socialist, inter-communist informed assembly of mostly
internationals with a smattering of Palestinians and a couple Israeli activists. I was in the West
Bank this round from the end of January until I came to Gaza,
which was halfway through April.
So basically two and a half months.
Most people who volunteer there, it's anywhere from like two or three weeks
to two or three months because a tourist visa lasts that long.
And that's usually the most you can expect.
During the time I was there, ISM and other solidarity organizations got to be a topic of much discussion in the Israeli Knesset,
as they got very excited about the dangerous anarchists in the South.
There's a lot of interesting comparisons between the West Bank and Gaza.
Palestinian people are divided by the state of Israel into two areas with two separate governments,
and two different experiences of occupation.
We asked Ava what people in Gaza had to say
about the situation for those living in the West Bank,
where settler colonialism spreads every single day.
Maybe I'll start by saying when I rolled into Gaza
and met members from the health ministry,
and they were like, oh, you speak some Arabic, or did you learn Arabic?
And I was like, in the West Bank? And they're like, oh, some arabic or did you learn arabic and i was like in the west bank and they're like oh it's so hard there and i was like really and they
were like yeah you know i mean obviously like the war which is what they call the genocide you
usually hear too um has been very hard but like before that like they have to live under a different
version of of occupation or direct version of occupation every day and I thought that that
just like touched something intense in me and like was really like a big I don't know it just
affected me a lot but as far as like comparisons there are parts of the West Bank that feel
independent that you feel like oh I'm in an area that is you know where I ostensibly are not supposed
to see Israelis and if they are there they're like my friend who just lives in you know lives with her husband who's palestinian they hang
out there and are fine most of the time but a lot of these areas that i spent most of my time are
areas where there's more direct contact constantly between settlers soldiers and the palestinian community who are often
in those areas like poor and rural and it's like a very different scale of genocide i often talk
about that as like a slower genocide and this is a faster genocide here in gaza but it's like no less
horrible it ends up being like a person a person and like parcel of land a parcel of land
palestinian herd of sheep israeli herd of sheep settler herd of sheep and it sounds like very
parallel except that the palestinians have been shepherding there for generations or hundreds of
years and settlers there are some of them many most of them are like teenagers who are dropouts
and like get in trouble all the time.
And then they're brought up there as community service.
And some of them know how to shop and some of them don't.
But they use it as an opportunity to like graze their animals on like Palestinian wheat fields.
Settler colonialism isn't just a vague concept or a way of looking at the past in Palestine.
It's something that happens almost every single day.
The violent displacement of Palestinian people,
which began with the Nakba, has never really stopped,
and the families in the West Bank experience their own Nakbas
every time their land is stolen.
That's why volunteers like Ava go there,
to be in solidarity with the Palestinian people.
We asked Ava what the process of appropriation looks like on the ground.
They stand somewhere, get confrontational with the Palestinians,
with the international and Israeli solidarity activists.
They get the police to, and soldiers who arrest people and harass people.
They occasionally fire at and sometimes kill or severely injure palestinians
less commonly at uh jenna or israeli activists after the seventh all across the west bank
initially a lot of the settlers as i understand it responded by kind of clamping down security
concerns and then very quickly turned it into an opportunity for attack and turned up at
villages like the village of zanuta and just were like which had like about 100 families and was
like you don't leave we're going to kill you all and so people left and it was a credible threat
and they did kill a lot of people i think that's the largest village i've heard of recently they
disappeared other places people ran away and their homes were destroyed their
animals were taken people come back and their cars get torched they get arrested
on no charges and held for longer than ever and in many cases are tortured to death i have a friend
and comrade that i organized with a little bit who was in Janine at the start of right after October 7th.
And she witnessed truly horrific, you know, targeted killings by drone strikes and other things and basically fled south.
So she would be OK and physically.
So that's some of what has happened. Most of the villages that historically have had the nonviolent weekly protests,
which a lot of people who in the past have volunteered as internationals will have experience with,
and there's a lot of the popular images of youth in keffiyehs throwing stones at some of those sites.
Since October 7th, almost all of the villages stopped,
as far as I know,
because it was too dangerous.
When I arrived,
I was told all of the villages had stopped,
but then we found out partway
that there was a village
that was having protests,
Kufar Qatum,
in the northern half of the West Bank.
And it turns out when we went there,
they never stopped.
They protested each week.
They did scale back what their goals were,
because whereas in the past,
many of them had been shot with live ammunition,
like.22 caliber rifles,
since the 7th, it basically became all live ammunition,
and only by the grace of God or luck
were none of them murdered in that time,
because the soldiers
were not shooting at ankles as is the conventional guidance i saw videos of them shooting into
buildings into homes shooting at head height things like that and like the week before i went
the guy was shot in the face and it he only survived because it deflected south down through
his jaw instead of into his skull so um they've experienced a lot of severe oppression there.
There's been hundreds killed in the West Bank
just since October 7th.
There is active fighting in parts of the North,
like kind of Jenin and I think in Tulkerem
and some other places between some armed resistance
and Israeli soldiers.
But it's definitely not at the same scale as in Gaza
and there aren't like active bombs falling on people but it's you know still murderous it's
still driving people out it's still squeezing people to they either lash out or leave I mean
it's it honestly sounds like it just a repeat in some way of the Nakba you know like that's just
what happened.
It is.
A little, maybe a little slower, like you said, like a slower genocide.
Right.
Yeah, it never really stopped.
It's been a slow genocide for like 76 years.
In addition to ongoing colonization, the economic conditions in the West Bank make life hard for people there.
But this does not stop people in the West Bank from being in solidarity with the people of Gaza.
When I was in the West Bank, I will also say like,
and I've shared this with many people here in Gaza,
like I would be in a tiny one bedroom house,
very poor, like people's incomes disappeared
after the 7th, that's another thing.
Like a lot of people made their money
by traveling to cities to work,
by working at
settlements things like that after the seventh roads were shut down people couldn't move
palestinian workers were not allowed in settlements not allowed to cross into 48
so everybody's struggling but like people are spending 24 7 with like al-jazeera or like other
palestinian or palestinian coverage of what's's happening in Gaza like people are right there when Ramadan started I was there during the month of Ramadan like people were like I'm so
looking forward to feeling hunger along with Gaza and like that was another aspect of hearing
hearing from the first Gazans crossing into Gaza like saying like oh it's so hard over there we're with them like i think there's a lot of attempts
from uh the israelis from uh liberal zionists in the u.s from the state and everything to be like
good palestinian bad palestinian and like all the palestinians are you know like they not all agree
politically like there's many different positions on everything just as there are many positions and everything in every community there's a lot of empathy between them and that
was another reason i was really excited to come from the west bank and bring like some olive oil
and other like gifts on behalf of the community because people need to know how much they're
loved and thought of on the other side i find it sad and beautiful how united of a people are the Palestinians across the tremendous distance of, and also incredibly short distance of apartheid and occupation.
They can't see each other or visit each other, but they feel for each other and are with each other in their hearts.
It just kind of wrecks me a little bit.
It's also nice to be near the sea.
I haven't yet seen the sea, but my friend was here very close and could see it from their house.
I just feel being close to the sea and see the sunsets, and that's so incredibly beautiful.
And sad, too, because most Palestinians don't get to see the sea.
And that's going to be the end of part one.
In part two, Ava tells us what the process was like traveling from the West Bank into Gaza, and she details her experience being on the ground in Rafah.
So please tune in to tomorrow's episode to hear more from Ava.
Until then, Free Palestine.
It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media,
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Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.
Sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together.
Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral.
We're talking musica, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura.
I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and
impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories,
combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up
comedia, and a sazón that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.