It Could Happen Here - On The Ground In Palestine, Part 2

Episode Date: May 29, 2024

Shereen continues her talk with nurse and street medic Eva about the reality on the ground in Palestine, as well as the process of traveling from the West Bank into Gaza.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and

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I wanted to know what it was like traveling into Gaza, Rafah in particular, from the West Bank. So now we are going to jump back into that conversation. What was that process of even entering like from the West Bank? So there is no direct way for the West Bank. I mean, it's hilarious because like, you know, like the conventional wisdom is like, oh, the entire land of Palestine is like smaller than New Jersey. But you don't really notice it until you're like, I am in Jaffa. I'm in Tel Aviv.

I am like 30 kilometers or something from Gaza. I am in the West Bank. I am so close. But you have to go a long way over a long, through a lot of like logistical hurdles to get there. Just kind of like any kind of travel in the west bank or any kind of occupied space but basically my journey looked like leaving the safariata the area villages in the south hubburn hills or southern west bank going north to ramallah crossing into al-quuds and then hanging out and then taking, and I got to be in Al-Quds

for Eid, which was amazing to see that. But then hopping on a bus and riding all the way down to Elat, like a kind of a horrible tourist town at the southern end of 48. Then caught a bus into Taba on the Egyptian side in Sinai. Crossing took forever. So I spent basically 12 hours overnight circling the Sinai, which wasn't my original plan, but it's what happened. And then I went to Cairo and I spent some time in Cairo. I got there a little bit early. Our entry was delayed. So I ended up having some days in Cairo to do a compress, which was fine and good. And then went in with a UN convoy, which is really the only way that you can go in, crossing the northern Sinai. There's a lot of checks with Egyptian officials out.

Then you get to the border, go through a bunch of checks with Egyptian officials. Then you cross over, have a comparativelyatively fewer but still plenty checks with gaza officials i also almost cried like looking at a palestinian seal crossing in because i was like and getting a stamp in my passport the like palestinian authority in gaza because i was like i've never like it's always every port of entry into palest Palestine is otherwise controlled by the Israelis. This is like the only one that is under Palestinian control. Even if it's like Palestinian control in a giant open-air prison. It's like still something.

And then we were inside. And I had been working and, you know, driving in cars. And movement is pretty limited for security reasons the murdering of the like world central kitchen workers had happened not long before i came when like basically a targeted drone strike took out three vehicles and six or seven people still very unclear reasons but it was not an accident, maybe not directed from the top, but very scary. So there's a lot of controlled movements. So basically you have to kind of have a pre-approved plan for where you're going to go and what you're going to do when you're going to

move. But yeah, there's a fair number of international aid workers here right now. And I'm really privileged to work with mostly the Palestinian ones, but a few good internationals too. I wanted to get Ava's perspective about social media and the actions of college protesters. How much coverage of the protests actually gets to Palestinians? I was watching coverage with one of the doctors here of campus protests and other international protests just this afternoon, people are talking about it. People are talking about global resistance and support. I don't know how representative that is outside of that space. Like I interact with a lot of members of the public who are not health care workers, but most of my conversations are with

healthcare workers. I do speak a little bit of Arabic, but not at like a deep conversational level, like enough to do some basic assessment and pleasantries and, you know, meet my needs. A lot of people are aware and are feeling hopeful in this moment with the negotiations in part because of the international pressure. It's interesting. I feel like there's a lot more hopefulness in Gaza than I've experienced just talking with people than I experienced in the West Bank. And I think that partly that might be the moment, but also I think it's partly sometimes,

and in fact I noticed in the West Bank too, where it's horrible and horrifying and terrifying to, I noticed in the West Bank too, where it's like, it's horrible and horrifying and terrifying to be in the eye of the storm or to be in the storm, but it's like, you're in it and you don't have to imagine it elsewhere, if that makes sense. When that all started, like I tried to plug in as best as i could with you know protest movements around the states and as i'm sure a lot of people maybe you and a lot of people might be listening could like resonate with it felt very like exciting to have that much motivation or that many people caring about palestine but also really inadequate and really hopeless just feeling like you're throwing yourself against a wall and nothing's going to change and feels really hopeless um and in the west bank i had palestinian

activists say i think this has proven that no protest movements do anything but like in this moment and in this location i don't hear that and i don't believe that that's the case like i think that protest movements have a limited capacity to change those people in like the the policies and interests of those people in power that said it's so little so late um as far as like any kind of political change in the west and in the u.s and in europe like today i visited a cemetery that was built by like a guy and his and volunteers he works with since october 7th and like visited the site of the remains of his family uh what remains were covered and of like another person's remains of her family and just like a field of of um some quality and a lot of

just like pavers stones just thrown down with names written on them in the sand, surrounded by tent encampments with children fighting to water the plants in order to get a couple shekels donation. Like, it also really, really sucks. And the fact that it's gotten to this point is unimaginably horrific. Ava had been on the ground in Raze and helping in what little remains of Raze's hospitals. is unimaginably horrific. Ava had been on the ground at Razeh and helping in what little remains of Razeh's hospitals.

This is what she had to say about that experience. There is no space. Most of the sickest and most seriously injured patients are treated on the floor because there's no space and they were brought in screaming, bleeding, dying, or dead. First few days, I saw several people die on the floor. You know, I saw several bodies on the floor. It's incredibly hard space.

Most of the difficulty that I have seen, like I said before, has not been direct violence from the genocide, such as a missile falling, such as shrapnel, such as concussive force, such as a missile falling such as shrapnel such as concussive force such as gunshots i've seen all of those but that has not been the majority of what i have seen the majority of what i have seen is children who do not have access to their anti-seizure medications so the child comes in and what's called status epilepticus, which is a seizure that lasts longer than 30 minutes. And it's gotten to a point where it's self-reinforcing and can't be stopped easily. And it can be easily fatal, even with critical care resources.

I have seen children whose parents had to switch to a different form of a medication and with a different dosing and things. a different form of a medication and with a different dosing and things and that got confusing because they were had to like find someone who's bringing in medication or like find it from another place and it's not written in arabic and it's not clear and so they end up getting a wrong dose it's like that uh anishar is now the only provider of dialysis in Rafah. There's another hospital that provides, but everywhere is so overly, there's way too many people drawing on those resources that they're having to run people shorter periods of time, more spread out schedule. So people get critically sick. It's like a lack of clean water because of destruction of infrastructure, because of mass displacement, because of a extended period when the Israelis and the Egyptians were preventing flow of clean water resources into Gaza. so children adults are getting hepatitis a turning yellow with jaundice having persistent diarrhea dehydration incredibly high rates of septic shock and like severe systemic infection due to all

kinds of untreated conditions because it's so much work and so dangerous for people to access care, let alone just live, that people put things off till they're literally dying. It's not a stable situation, but it's like a tenuously, like I said, hanging on by a thread situation. And again, I just, I am terrified of what will happen if everybody has to relocate again. Because it's going to be like people not going back to square one. It'll be going, you know, backward into whole new depths of pain and suffering.

Because like if they're pushed out of Rafah to Hanunis, it'll be to an already devastated city with now tent cities and people trying to rebuild a hospital where there is no water infrastructure. cities and people trying to rebuild a hospital where there is no water infrastructure. Despite the terrible suffering, Ava was able to find time to connect with her faith and her heritage while she was in Gaza. I am also Jewish. That is not the reason I am here, but it is not a reason that I am here. And during the first few months since the 7th of October, Jews took up a lot of space in protest movements. And I think for good reason, because frankly, white supremacy and anti-Muslim, anti-Arab, anti-Palestinian bias and people not knowing what to think or do about Palestine. And so having voices of Jewish Americans saying,

like, no, actually, this is bad. Like, you can all see that and just go ahead and acknowledge it's bad and we can move forward, I think is important. That said, I think that the voices of Jewish people, the voices of white people, not all Jews are white, of course, but many Jews experience whiteness and do not generally experience Islamophobia or anti-Arab bias, although some do. Here's a voice note Ava shared with us after a long day

at the hospital in the Dafaq. Back at our house, I made some soup with noodles and some beans or food. I lit Shabbos candles for the first time in a long time. I find myself, interestingly, less estranged from my practice than I have been. It feels very in line with my faith practice and my ethics to be here. And that feels good. And it's been the first time in a long time that I've felt like lighting. There's been several times that people have asked me my faith, and I've answered in Jewish and some of them were interested or excited.

Some of them were surprised or confused. Most were like, yeah, no problem. And obviously nobody has said anything negative about me for that or for being American for that matter. My experience of Palestinians continues to be of the most understanding, welcoming, and people, hospitable people, and people most capable of holding complexity. People here obviously are not fans of the U.S., not fans of the State of Israel, not fans of most of their experience of Jews, but have no problem with people from the U.S. or people who are Jewish. And that much is my

experience in the West Bank. So there's that. I've been offered people's food so many times and I consistently decline except for when I've just fed them and I eat something and then I'm like, that's enough. Thank you. I don't know. It's a really magical place and a really hard place to be. And I'm grateful I get to be here. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and

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and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming

and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. It's obvious how much help there is for Eva to give the people of Gaza

with their hospitals bombed and their doctors killed. They desperately need medical help. But, she says, they have given her help as well. And I think it's really important, like you say, to be focused on the people who are experiencing the genocide and are resisting the genocide because truly, in no small part, I came to Palestine hoping to be, you know, to do something to help and also to be re-inspired because Palestinians are experts in resisting colonialism, experts in resisting genocide, experts in maintaining whatever can be considered hopefulness towards a future beyond occupation and colonialism. It is not fair that Palestinians have to bear that burden

of maintaining that kind of optimism and resilience and all that kind of stuff in the face of all the horrors that they've experienced. Like nobody should have to experience that. We then asked Ava what the impact of solidarity actions around the world have on the people of Palestine. I think it is important to talk. I think it's really unsatisfying kind of activism, as many kinds of activism are,

because it's hard to convince people who are already decided they're against you. And it's also painful and exhausting and usually not helpful. And also it doesn't feel particularly helpful just to like rev up people that do agree with you. But I think that people continuing to show up and not letting it rest, not letting that energy die, not letting this administration feel like anyone's forgotten about the ways that they failed.

Also BDS, please learn about Boycott, divestment and sanction. The Israeli government also really is scared of that. They view it as terrorism. So do more of it. Not saying that people should do terrorism, but do BDS, which is not terrorism decidedly. No, I'm glad you brought that up because that's what the students are protesting. They want their universities to divest. I do think that people should learn more about BDS because a lot of the public

knowledge and information promoted about BDS stuff is different from it. And that's fine. I think that Starbucks and McDonald's and all these other companies that are actually not BDS targets being scared to be associated with Israeli occupation state is also good. Don't get so much on a high horse about colonialism. Also learn about like the colonial history and reality of North America and try to work towards like supporting anti-colonial struggle there. hypocrisy to be like you know end the last ongoing occupation in the world and ignore the occupation that you might be living on and benefit from personally i think that it i think it insulates

i think it does important work towards building international solidarity and building anti-colonial resistance around the world to talk about the interconnection between different kinds of colonialism and anti-colonial struggle. And it also insulates our movements against claims of anti-Semitism and other things. We're like, no, it's nothing special about the Israeli state. The Israeli state is a really bad example of settler colonialism, as is the United States, as is Canada. And be able to talk about all of those things as different sides of the same kinds of genocidal systems. In addition to sharing her impressions of Palestine with us, Ava also shared some moments of her day-to-day life there.

These small moments of joy are something that war, genocide, and violence try to take from Palestinian people. And so the experience of joy is a form of resistance in itself. I am here in a tiny courtyard. There are birds chirping. You can see here some sounds of the street. I can see some flowers and beautiful plants next to an incredibly fancy house that a family fled from and is now renting to the organization I'm working

with and in turn housing also another family of one of the doctors here. And so it feels so strangely peaceful, very confusing to the senses. Anyway, that's enough for now. I'm signing off. Bye. If there's anything that you want people to know that we haven't seen or that hasn't been being shown, I know the actual atrocity is far, far greater than the snippets we're seeing, but I guess having been on the ground, what is something that maybe you want people to know

that we aren't getting across on our phones? I guess the best way I can answer that is like, it's not particularly original, but remembering that Gazans are just people and they're living their lives and trying to exist. They're just people. And everyone and everything that they've known has been irrevocably altered, whether they've been murdered, seriously injured, had their entire family taken from them and never recovered, all the landmarks they grew up around, all the trees that they hung out under, all the places that they prayed and ate and got into trouble. Everything is gone.

And 30-some thousand murdered, 60-some thousand injured does not represent any part of, anywhere near the majority of the horror that people are experiencing but i think it's worthwhile remembering that and also that like numbers are not at all representative and also just that like some people are political here some people aren't political most of them don't give a damn and just want to live call most of them don't give a damn and just want to live. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media,

visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once

we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex,

cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

New episodes every Thursday. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And we're kicking off our second season digging into Tex Elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search. Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from.