It Could Happen Here - Permaculture with Andrew

Episode Date: September 6, 2022

Andrew explains the principles of permaculture to Mia and JamesSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Or whenever you get your podcasts. We'll be right back. everything. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Welcome to the Ikedap and Hare's Practical Guide to making permaculture happen wherever you are. I am your host for this episode, Andrew of the YouTube channel Andrewism, and I'm joined here with

Chris and James. Say hello. Hello. Hi. Thanks for having us. Hello. Hi. Thanks for having us. Thanks for having me. Technically, I'm the guest. Yeah, true. Well, you're going to walk us through this.

I'm very excited to learn more about it. Yes. So I really see it as a key component in our restoration of the earth. And so I find it necessary that regardless of what direction your individual praxis is going in, where you're looking to specialize or whatever, quote-unquote specialize, I think it's still important to think about where your food comes from and think about ways that we can enhance and enlarge our food autonomy,

especially considering the multi-layering crises that uh you know compounding these days permaculture was first coined as a tomb by permaculturist bill mollison it's a portmanteau of permanent agriculture and permanent culture and it's the conscious design and maintenance of agriculturally productive ecosystems which have the diversity stability and resilience of natural ecosystems it's a way of integrating landscape and people providing their food energy shelter and other material and other non-material needs in a sustainable way and just to be clear the concepts the ideas the principles that make up permaculture have existed long before bill mollison was born have existed in cultures all over the world bill mullison is just someone who has i guess

given it a spin for a modern audience but these principles these ideas are things that have been in practice for thousands of years tens of thousands even From the approach to land management and settlement design To the whole systems thinking approach to nature Which can be seen in a lot of animist practices It has a long history And it's one that people who practice fumiculture today Research fumiculture Will inevitably uncover in their learning process.

However, Bill Morrison first coined it in the 1970s as a response to the oil embargoes that were taking place at the time. By bringing together the traditional knowledge of a vast array of indigenous cultures and combining them with certain modern design and layouts it created a movement that is now spreading across the world from every on every continent honestly The way that permaculture views the world, views systems, it comes with an outlook that recognizes

that all biological material is a potential energy source. The aim is to try to trap energy on your land and to use that energy in the most efficient way before it degrades, to create circular economies and cycles of energy that allow for actual sustainable agricultural practice, which unfortunately has not been the aim of agriculture, especially industrial agriculture. And supemiculture represents a challenge to that status quo. The ethics of permaculture are primarily focused on care for the earth, that being all living and non-living things, care for all people, thereby promoting self-reliance and community

responsibility, so that we all have access to the resources necessary for existence and care for community and specifically community that allows us to be to think of and approach our society in a way that benefits all people in our life. Recognizing the community is not just our neighbors. It's not just the people who live in our city or town. It is all the living things that incorporate our surroundings and beyond. The way that permaculture approaches design it's a lot of his emphasis in mimicking how the natural world would attempt to stabilize of course these systems take thousands tens of thousands hundreds of thousands even millions of years to fully develop and age and reach some kind of stable state.

But public culture seeks to learn from these old growth forests and these elderly ecosystems and accelerate that process to establish things that will last generations, to establish spaces that will provide for the needs of people hundreds of years down the line when it comes to approaching permaculture design practically first things first to recognize is that anybody can take part in permaculture design anybody can take part in constructing these sorts of systems. And it can be established, the basic principles can be established

regardless of your circumstances, your individual climate or biosphere. Because the principles are based on following what nature was doing anyway. are based on following what nature was doing anyway. One of the first principles involves the recognition of the connections in a location. Seeing that a web is stronger than a single string, meaning that all of these different parts, these different moving parts coming together, create something stronger than if each individual person, each individual creature is trying to move by itself.

It also looks at the connection between waste and resources. We all know the old adage that says, you know, one man's trash is another man's treasure but when it comes to ecosystems we should really be taking it quite literally because the waste of one part of the system directly feeds into the resource of another part decomposing plants and animals directly feed into the fungal networks and flourishing of the next generation of plants and animals. And in that web, in that network, in those connections, we can also recognize, for principle two, that each element performs multiple functions. If are for example keeping chickens they can be a source of eggs and feathers and protein of course but they also produce mania and their daily activity helps to aerate the soil and they also provide insect control allowing your plants to further flourish

banana trees they provide bananas of course they provide fruit they also provide starch and mulch and protection and shade and they hold water quite well actually when i had taken a permaculture design course a couple months ago and one of the things that i had learned from the guy who was running it was that he had told the story and he had done this this project in barbados and in barbados he was called to uh restore a sort of like an old sand mine um because it had run out of sand well it's close to running out of sand. And so the community that was reliant on that sand mine didn't really have any direction

because their economy, their local economy had been so reliant on those jobs. When he came in, it's just like, and he showed the pictures, it's just this very, very barren landscape, very dry, very dusty. And I was honestly in disbelief that something so dead so destroyed something so devolved could be as radically transformed as he had transformed it

unfortunately this is a podcast not a video otherwise i would show you the pictures This is a podcast, not a video, or otherwise I would show you the pictures. But the transformation was stunning. And one of the elements that he had used to transform that dry landscape into a lush food forest was banana trees. Unsurprisingly, banana trees are very effective at growing quickly and providing shade to other plants. And so as these other plants are growing up, they have the shaded banana tree to protect them from the harsh sun. And so the banana trees, while they may not be the top dogs of the forest in the end, by the time the forest is fully established, plant trees don't get that tall they still are vital in that early stage in providing that function of shade that allows the rest of the forest to establish itself that's really cool

it's very very very cool i would show you all the pictures after. Is there like a place people could see them online? Like Instagram, they could look up or something? Yes. So if you go on wasamakipumaculture.org, I believe he has the pictures up there. That'll be W-A-S-A-M-A-K-I-P-U-M-A-C-U-L-T-U-R-E.org. And if I remember correctly, he has the pictures on there. Yeah.

Was it like a sand mine before or something? Yeah, it was a sand mine. Yeah. Geez. Wow. It looks like there's no goodness in the soil in the first one. And then. Yeah.

Yeah. At the end, it's thriving. To the soil in the first one and then yeah yeah and so arriving to go back into the recording aspect when it came to that project a large part of it was just getting that life in the soil so they were taking they were getting mulch and mania from wherever they could get it just to give some life to that soil. They would grow certain hardy, fast-growing plants and then chop them down after they'd grown sufficiently so they would die right where they lay

and provide nutrients to the soil. And that process was what helped to build up that soil even before you started planting the bananas and other stuff. And were they able, like you were saying, they were getting some of that stuff wherever they could get it. Like, were they able to get that? Was it like considered a waste product, I guess, by the people they got it from?

So like, I know I have chickens and they obviously produce like manure and I'll put some of it in my like vegetables that I grow, but I'll just give it to anyone else who wants it. Is that a thing that they were able to do there? Yeah, I think people are donated. least in Trinidad I don't know what the case is in Barbados but in Trinidad there are bush trucks which pass every once in a while to collect whatever you know branches and cut grass and whatever people have put out from their yard work or whatever so I would assume that they would have asked the bush truck people to you know bring some of that stuff to the site to help out

because a lot of people you know they just put that in front of the yard waiting for the bush truck to pass and so a lot of very good potential sources of like um ecosystem building that sort of that so-called waste, that really resources gets wasted when it can really serve a lot of these kinds of projects. Yeah, that's very cool. Yeah. Yeah, it's something that like, I don't know, if you ever read UN documents about stopping climate change,

they always have a giant section about circular economy stuff and about sort of, I i mean basically doing this stuff and then nothing ever happens and no one ever does it and so yeah it's it's really cool that like this is a place where those ideas which like are if there's if we are going to survive as a species with like most of us alive and doing well we're going to have to do exactly getting implemented yeah i'm uh i'm kind of reminded just on this sort of topic of uh i was in rwanda uh in like february of 2020 and one of the things that really struck me with this system of agriculture that they've devised where um they have paddies uh that they grow rice right like submerged and then in there there are living fish uh and then above them there are like little hutches

with rabbits and i'm so like uh the rabbit manure helps to fertilize what's growing beneath and then like it's this kind of circular thing where i think they can feed some of the things that they cut off the the plants to the rabbits and it's sort of like and the fish will help keep the water clean i think they're like filter fish i can't quite yeah plants keep it clean for the fish it was fascinating i was like this is amazing like they're not as opposed to i grew up on a farm and like i'm very familiar with some of the larger arable grains in the UK and how you're relying on a ton of exogenous inputs, which I was just so impressed with the fact that they devised a system that didn't require those.

Exactly, exactly. You really want to, of course, you will have to get external sources, especially in the beginning as you're trying to establish the system. But the aim is really to have the system continuously establishing itself and expanding itself and maintaining itself. Yeah. Would it be a system that works mostly with plant-basedbased food stuff, I guess. That seems generally to be more sustainable.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, mania is a really powerful source of fertilizer. And I think you can keep animals without, you know, eating them. Yes. Or using them anyway. If you just want to, you know. Because they make good companions and stuff as well. Yeah, that's totally fair.

But yeah, I would say a plant-focused system could definitely. And to sort of rhyme or align with principle two, which said that each element performs multiple functions it's also important to have each function supported by multiple elements right so you don't want to get all your food from one source you want to have a mix of trees and roots and short crops and cultivars i mean having all your food coming from one source is basically what we do now with you with these monocultures, with this industrial farming that has these fields and fields and fields that are so susceptible to pests and disease

that we have to basically drench them with chemicals just to allow them to survive. And the same guy who did the course He explained to me like this He said that When there's a system In nature And it's not In balance

They basically send out a signal Saying hey This is not in balance Come and fix it And so These so called pests These bugs and stuff They come to these aberrations these freaks of nature these massive fields of crops and recognizing that this is not a

sustainable um establishment in the landscape They try to Try to optimize Right, he calls them He doesn't call them pests, he calls them optimizers So if you have, for example Excessive amount of a certain pest In your system Something's wrong with that system Because

Those so-called pests Those optimizers are only able to flood your system because they don't have the mechanism your system doesn't have the mechanisms in place to keep them in check so you don't have the fauna the larger insects and stuff in your system that will keep those pests in check there's an imbalance in place and that's something that needs to be rectified and there are different ways to rectify depending on the situation another example and this isn't um from the permaculture guy permaculture course another example was the um this i believe someone was talking about the presence of wolves in some of the parks in uh in the u the US and how reintroducing those wolves did so much to

regulate the rest of the ecosystem, the ripple effects that had on the rest of the ecosystem, stabilizing the deer populations and stabilizing the beaver populations and stabilizing all these other different plants and animal species that you would think are not even connected to the wolves, but still their presence played a significant role in maintaining that balance. Yeah. Go, go watch how wolves change rivers.

It's literally five minutes and it rules. Yeah. It's amazing. I just like the concept of rewilding. Is that what, would that be a similar thing? Yeah, yeah. Rewilding is basically, permaculture tends to be more focused

on sustaining human communities in a balance with the rest of the natural world. Whereas rewilding is more focused on helping to rebuild ecosystems outside of the human sphere. He says I understand it. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill.

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to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive video app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries.

Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires.

From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things

that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God, things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. so with principle three which was to reiterate was that each function should be supported by multiple elements you wouldn't want to get all your food from one source you wouldn't just want to grow like rows and rows of trees or rows and rows of corn you want to grow a mix of trees and roots and short crops and cultivars and all these different species and

variations that would make up like an actual forest the food forest is a approach that a lot of permaculturists would advocate. And within a food forest, you would have, I believe, seven major groups. There's sort of seven levels that create a sort of a beneficial system. On the top layer, you have the canopy, which consists of the large fruits and nut trees. you have the canopy which consists of the large fruits and nut trees they provide the most shade and they keep the whole area the climate of the area stable on that second layer you're going to have the low tree layer which has the dwarf fruit trees the smaller fruit trees would fall under the canopy on the third layer you would have the shrub layer where you'd grow you know your berries and other small you know plants and below that you have the herbaceous layer where you would grow different

herbs and spices and things like that and then below that you have your root vegetables and below that you have well can't really go below the root vegetables but next to those root vegetables you would want to grow your soil surface crops your ground cover um like there's certain running beans and stuff that help to create a ground cover which protects the soil and prevents the establishment of undesirable plants which we call weeds and then finally the seventh layer is the vertical layer which consists of the climbers and vines that would establish themselves on the low tree layer and the canopy so if you have that sort of food forest system in place with all those seven layers

you're not getting each function supported by one element you're getting it supported by one element to getting it supported by many elements. The same goes for water. You don't want to get all your water source coming from just like the pipes and whatever water the government sends you. You want to have water coming from the rain, if possible you might want to tap into the water table or you might want to, depending on your situation, you might have a stream or you might be on a on your situation you might have a stream or you might be on a hill in which case you'd have water flowing down and you want to find ways to trap that water and to conserve that water so that it's distributed throughout your system unlike a regular home garden part of the aim of a permaculture system is that it, just like in nature,

it waters itself. It takes care of itself. And so you're going to have to want, you're going to want to have all sorts of different sources of water, elements in place to provide that water. Same goes for energy. You would want to get all the energy from one source.

You want to combine, you know, human power, animal power, hydroelectricity, if possible, solar power, if possible. Basically, redundancy is very important. Redundancy is very important. And I'll say it again for emphasis. Redundancy is very important and i'll say it again for emphasis redundancy is very important the next principle principle number four is that you want to approach permaculture with energy efficiency in mind particularly your own energy so on the more practical side of things, you might want to do what my mentor, my guide had done, which was a zone and sector analysis. So basically, you draw a map of your space, you outline your daily patterns and the energies that come from outside your site, like wind and rain and flood and fire and pollution and noise and smells and all those different things you want to look at how you move through your space you want to look how the sunshine passes over your space you want to look at the view and you want to try to harness those good energies whether it be the rain or wind or whatever it may be the sun and plant accordingly you don't want to have sun sensitive plants on like the south side of your property of your space wherever the space is and you wouldn't want to have plants that need a lot of sun in the shade you also want to divvy up your space once

you've you know done that map of your space you want to divvy up your space once you've done that map of your space, you want to divvy it up into zones. So the first zone might be your immediate living space. The second zone would have an intensive kitchen garden. So that first zone would be a place of consumption and processing of whatever it is that your system is producing. It doesn't necessarily have to be a house. It could be a community kitchen or it can be a campus clubhouse. I don't know. It could be any space that you're using for consumption and processing. The next zone is going to be an intensive kitchen garden. It's a place where you'd want to grow the plants that cycle through more quickly um the spices and the herbs and the different things that you would use on a regular basis the next zone would want to have its focus on local support community support and surplus

so this zone um the first zone is actually technically zone zero the second zone is zone one and so zone two which is that sort of local support space that orchard is we want to grow um your fruit trees your ornamentals um we want to raise your raise animals there and you basically want it to be a space where you can provide for the local community separate and apart from your own produce zone three would also have the emphasis on production zone three would be the space where of investment in establishing a sustainable sort of life cycle for more long-term plants and zone five would be a space of wilderness of of wildlife corridors that allow spaces of free wilding even within your more constructed site. Having your systems split into zones helps you to reduce the amount of work that you put in,

the amount of resources used, the amount of work that you put in, the amount of resources you use, the amount of maintenance you'll need, and it also helps you to boost your yields and to recycle resources most effectively. The fifth principle is the use of biological resources. Natural insecticides, timber, nitrogen fixers, whatever the case may be, you want to be using the systems that have evolved to fulfill those roles, to fulfill those roles. You may or may not be afraid of certain creatures. I myself personally, I don't like frogs or toads or really, I don't like most animals. Personally, I just don't vibe with them. However common, I recognize their importance, right?

So frogs and bats and snakes, all of these creatures help to provide like a stable system, whether it be snakes dealing with rats or bats dealing with insects or frogs also dealing with insects you might also want to use companion planting as well like the three sisters method which is a combination of beans corn and what was the third one again it's squashes right and squash and that would help to establish you know itself and maintain itself it's sort of like a microcosm of the broader permaculture concept and one that has been in practice for hundreds of years the sixth principle is the practice of energy cycling trapping sunlight through greenhouses making the most use basically out of the

energy that flows through your system before it leaves your system recycling the organic matter that passes through your system so it produces no real waste when I was at this site at the permaculture forest, I witnessed a compost toilet for the first time and was immediately grossed out by the concept. However, upon being blown away by the product of those compost toilets, I changed my tune very quickly and although i would not i probably would not use a compost toilet on a regular basis i think it has some benefit um because we're flushing away some some real power some real nutritious stuff um of course there are risks associated with using human mania um but the process that he had put in place involved using human waste and then for every certain amount of human waste you would dump sawdust on top of it

and that sawdust helps to deal with the smell so much so that I actually didn't smell anything when I opened up those those compost toilets but it also helps to create that balance between the carbon and the nitrogen that is required for compost. And so after a tub has been filled, a compost toilet tub has been filled, he seals it up, leaves it for a year to break down. And by the time it comes out, it's just like regular soil however of course safety precautions i believe he only uses it for his orchards so only like fruit trees and other kinds of trees i spent a lot of time so far discussing these sort of larger systems where you know i'm basically assuming you have several acres of land like this guy does i don't have several acres of land i don't have an

inch of land um and i feel like a lot of people listening don't so there are elements that you can incorporate on the small scale such as grow boxes you can have deep litter beds you can have You can have deep litter beds. You can have aquaculture systems. And that's actually one of the things that he first established, which was like a series of aquaculture systems. And it's actually one of the main focuses of his project to this day. But I was quite surprised as to the yield that could be produced from something as simple as a couple pipes put together with some tomato plants grown out of it so i mean don't underestimate yourself

or the space available to you because you might not be able to plant a whole forest but you can do a little something. Welcome, I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters

to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit. The podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks

while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. search, better offline as your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them

to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com.

Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, Check out betteroffline.com. This is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo

actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. coming back to the food forest concept the eighth principle is the use of natural plant succession and stacking you want to group plants together that would give a continual production over time in both the short term and the long term. And like I established, you want to have those layers in place, the roots, the vines, the trees, etc. The ninth principle encourages diversity, encourages polyculture, which is something that I'm sure you would have picked up on by now the 10th principle is increasing the edge within a system by creating unique niches

that allow for the more rare the more vulnerable corners of life to sustain themselves and i think that's something that a lot of permaculturists do in terms of establishing their own systems they have like a special focus or certain passion projects certain species that they just love and want to see flourish and so they create these niches within their systems that allow allow for those creatures to flourish principle 11 implores that you observe natural patterns nature rarely goes in a straight line and you may want to make that pattern whether it be spirals or waves or branches, whether it be patterns over time from, you know, the week to the month, the year to repeating patterns in the weather or the seasons. You want to be observing these patterns and adjusting your system continually.

The early parts of establishing a permaculture system is certainly the most difficult part. But even five to ten years down the line when the system is more established, more self-sustaining, you still want to be playing that role of tweaking it as you go along. And I think that's something that more people need to recognize about humanity we didn't just spring on to hear like some sort of alien parasite leeching off of the earth right we just like every other animal like every other creature on this planet have a role to play in the ecosystems we inhabit unfortunately a lot of that activity has been destructive because of how our socioeconomic system has been structured. But that's something we have a role in changing. And part of that is recognizing that we are stewards. We can be good stewards. We can help to facilitate

the flourishing of life. We don't have to be grim reapers upon the systems that we are a part of. And so even as you're late, quote unquote, in these long-term projects, 20 years, 30 years, you're still going to be tweaking and cultivating and hopefully expanding these systems over time. Principle 12 reminds us we got to pay attention to the scale of these systems, to the long term of these systems, recognizing that this is something we want to establish over generations. And finally, principle number 13 is be positive. Experiment, from your mistakes scale up bring in more people get involved get more of your community of your social circle of your family of your affinity group of whatever the case may be get more people involved um in imagining this complex, beautiful, revolutionary project.

We have a long way to go, but a lot of progress can be made in a short space of time. And there are a lot of projects already going on with this end in mind. I would suggest just going online really and just searching for the different permaculture projects happening around the world. Whether it be the food forests that Jeff Lawton is working to establish in Morocco, or the permaculture, permablit systems that people are putting in place in Australia,

or the greening the Sahara projects in the Sahel region across Africa or the many small-scale projects taking place and large-scale projects taking place across the Americas. There are a lot of people putting in this work and there's a large community willing and able to support as you hopefully embark upon this journey that's about it for me

yeah that's that's fascinating um i'm really interested in this stuff i think yeah it's massively missing in our discussion about like i don't know how to phrase this rightly, but, uh, like making a better world just to give it a really broad sort of phrasing. Uh, and when we often think about like political discourse and when we think about political systems, um, but without food systems, we, we really like the hierarchy of needs is not satisfied. Right. i think that folks listening uh can make a really positive change really really quickly and in their own lives and spaces if they sort of spend some time with this stuff yeah absolutely and it's cool i think um and important too to reference it like so much of this like like the person you named at the start whose name i'm sorry i've

forgotten but like um i think yeah it's important to reference that like these are indigenous ways of of knowing and doing and being and living and like you said they've existed for millennia and like going back to that is good as part of the larger sort of way of respecting indigenous cultures and land rights and all the other things we need to do. 100%. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of fright.

An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him.

Or stay with his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything.

Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday.