It Could Happen Here - Planned Parenthood's War Against Healthcare Workers Part 1

Episode Date: August 23, 2022

Mia talks with Crystal and Elizabeth, two members of UE Local 696, about the struggle of healthcare workers at Planned Parenthood after the fall of Roe   @ppwpunion on Twitter  https://www.instagram.com/ppwpunion/?hl=en https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-western-pennsylvania/get-involved/donate/vivian-campbell-fund https://www.wpafundforchoice.org/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast about things falling apart and how to put them back together again. Now, a thing that has fallen apart that we have talked about at length before is the protection of the right to abortions previously enshrined in Roe v. Wade and no longer enshrined in that.

And we've come at this from a number of angles, but one angle that we've neglected so far is the labor angle. And, okay, so for reproductive autonomy to exist, right, you need healthcare. And healthcare, especially under capitalism, requires labor. And that labor isn't done by abstract organizations. It's done by workers who are facing not only sort of the maul of the death of Roe, but the intransigence and often the belligerence of their own bosses. us about that is Crystal Grabowski and Elizabeth Villanuevo from the wonderfully named UE Local 696. And I'm going to read a pseudo legal disclaimer here, which is that they are not representing Planned Parenthood. They do work at Planned Parenthood. They are not representing Planned Parenthood. They are there representing themselves as individuals.

At our local union. Yes. Proud members of local 696. Impeccably named union. Purposefully named. They were like, you have to choose a number that starts with six. And then we just like looked at each other. And we had that moment where it's like, yes.

And then we can add another one and, and it'll be a good time. Nice fun little threesome. Yeah. Healthy, safe. It was good. This is our, this is our, this is our round one of pro union propaganda. Join a union and you too can be in a union local 69.

Or what if they told you the number could start with four? Like, you know? Yeah. Boom. There's just so many options. I'm sure there's other fun numbers that besides those, but you have, you have the entire world in front of you. Yeah. We could have done six, you could do like boo. Can you imagine if we did six, six, six? Can you imagine if we did 666 as a worker union? We could have. We had that choice

and we went with 696. Because we're a sexual health organization. To prove that workers will always make the right decisions. Yes. This is the power of the union. We can evaluate

these decisions when it's important and do the right thing. So, yeah, thank you. Thank you too so much for, for coming on the show. Thank you for having us.

We're both super excited. Yeah. Thanks for inviting us. Us lowly abortion workers. So I, I'm going to, I'm going to dispute heavily with the heavily with the the term lowly like y'all are the people who make all of this possible so yeah and yeah and and now now having said all of this i'm about i'm going to

ask you a very depressing question which we have uh we've asked a lot of the people who've talked about abortion access uh like who work in abortion access stuff this question but i think you two had a very different experience of it um what was it like on the day when roe died do you want to go first crystal um yeah i've talked about this a lot because i'm getting asked a lot and it's, I'm happy to talk about it. Um, which is, I'm actually like, it's been hard to listen to other people talk about it because then I start getting in my feels, but like when I'm talking about it, I'm kind of like just processing it. It's probably healthy for me, somebody would say, but, um, it was incredibly traumatic and it's been incredibly traumatic, um, since the fall of Roe v. Wade and the Dobbs decision. And I'm saying this while knowing that we all knew it was coming. It was a given.

Yeah. And it wasn't surprising. And there's just something about knowing that it's been coming for months and years that it just did nothing to actually inform you like what would it be like um but it was like a it was like a tidal wave crashing and just like sweeping you away and we're still swept away um the only language that I can find that's appropriate is like natural disaster language and I just I keep repeating it and saying like, it's like a hurricane, it's like a tidal wave, but that is the, the, those are the words that are most fitting to me, like emotionally and just in terms of like the violence and the, that is that you, that people are experiencing. And just the, the, the, the emotional and mental and bodily harm

is equitable to a natural disaster. mental and bodily harm is equitable to a natural disaster. Yeah. And I think during one of our debriefs during a particularly difficult day, this was pre-Roe, we were talking about how sometimes it's really hard for us when we can see these things coming and yet there's nothing we can really do about it. And I know that we talked about how it felt like we were just tied to a train track watching and waiting for that train to just come and hit us. And then when it did, it was just, it just knocked, I think the wind out of all of us. I think we all cried for sure. Oh, we all cried. Yeah. And, and I'm not even like, I don't know, like I like I feel like I I am I'm emotional and I am

a crier but oh I didn't think that I would sob immediately the second I saw the news and then I always knew we were going to get a lot more calls because um Elizabeth and I also answer phones in the abortion clinic and I was okay we're going to get way more calls. But like you don't know what that feels like or looks like or sounds like, like, what does it feel like to have a hundred people calling you pretty much at the same time? What does that look like? Now I know and it's traumatic and it's awful and it's a natural disaster, but it's a man-made disaster. Actually, it's not a natural disaster. We've, there are people who have inflicted this upon us. Um, and now we know what it feels like and it's fucking awful.

Oh, I should have asked if I was allowed to swear. Oh yeah. I swear all the time. Okay. Cool. Cause like I've been on podcasts before where they were like, oh, we got to edit that out, which, um, cool. Well, it's a fucking nightmare.

Yeah. Um, we work in healthcare. I think we swear more than the average layman because they keep saying somehow. Yeah. There's so much more to say. Like, yeah, no, please. I don't even know where to go from there. It's just, yeah.

It's like a never ending nightmare because like the call started and then it's just like, just, just person after person after person, they driving, driving two hours, three hours, four hours, five hours coming from states that are like three states away coming from like states in the South, people taking planes and, um, people staying in hotels. And we've had people pay like hundreds of dollars for an uber and um and then just like bringing in the labor angle too as like unionized abortion workers who you know we have been vocal and we've been rallying and making our demands like publicly known

but we are doing this while under staffed like skeletal crew staffing we didn't have enough staff before rofell and the dobbs decision and now we just it's bare bones and it's like we are so we're taking on this tidal wave this like man-made tidal wave while just giving every last ounce of our energy and doing multiple roles at once. Yeah. I don't know if you are able to tell from the fact that Crystal and I both work directly in the clinic, but we also answer calls. When we signed up for our job, we knew that we would be doing multiple things around the clinic and it's just, it's funny, um, to not really know what that means until you start doing it.

So one day you'll be holding a patient's hand while they're having this procedure done, like giving them a little baggy in case they feel sick. You'll be talking to them on the phone. So there are days where I will meet people who I've spoken to on the phone when they called to book their appointment. And it just hits me like a tidal wave because I'm like, that's the person. That's this person specifically. I remember because I remember hearing the sound of their voice and every single time they call in, they are sobbing. This is a horrifying moment for them. This is a moment where they feel trapped. They feel like they can't share with their family, with their friends, depending on what state they're from and the legalities of that state, they are even afraid to make these phone calls. Like some of the first things that patients say to us when they call in is, am I, is this okay? Like, am I allowed to call you? Am I allowed to talk to you? Am I allowed to book an appointment? What's going to happen next for me? Will my appointment be canceled? Yeah. Because we're not lawyers, because we, everything is so fluid right now we don't have

answers to give them um we can just say well you're coming to Pennsylvania and it's still legal in Pennsylvania so um yeah and just to like paint the picture a little more too about like both the skeletal staffing and the emotional turmoil and the emotional weight of it. So the Dobbs decision happened on June 24th, which was a Friday and we're in Pennsylvania. And that evening of the evening of June 24th, a trigger band went into effect in, in Ohio. It was a, it's a fetal heartbeat bill, which is a deceptive language because it's not actually a heartbeat, but it's technically a fetal heartbeat bill. And so people after six weeks could no longer access abortion services or once any sort of

electrical impulse was detected and everyone had their appointments canceled. So we were actually at a protest, like the staff was like at a protest that evening with our, with our doctors, our abortion providing doctors and the news came out like, yeah, shout out to them. We love them. And we got the news that Ohio had just did this. And we were just like, oh my God, tomorrow, because we knew the second our call center and our phone lines opened, everyone whose appointment was canceled was going to be calling us. And then we pull up the staff schedule and we're like standing in the middle of the street at a protest. We pull up the staff schedule and we're like, oh my God,

there is one person scheduled to answer phones right now. And it is an older woman who's been doing this since like the seventies or eighties. And it's like, we can not like, and we were like all as a union, like, um, you return to each other and we're like, Oh my God, this is the situation. We cannot leave her alone. Um, we've already worked our five days. We already worked our 35 hours, but we are going to call ourselves into work. And we just, we were like, we've notified our managers, like we're going to come into work and we're going to help to answer the phones for these canceled Ohio patients. Like that was a decision that we made to work those extra, that extra time on our weekend off. Cause it was a Saturday, but this ties into

what Elizabeth was saying, where when you hear the person on the phone and then they come to you and like, it's very emotional because like you're doing your best as a healthcare worker to get them the health service that you have been trained to provide and that you know is very important. So knowing that we were understaffed, knowing that we're not making that much money. And then just being like, I have to go in and be there. I can't leave my coworker alone because I love my coworker. And we can't, and like somebody has to be there for these patients when they're calling. And if it's not going to be the employer and the bosses, then it's going to be you. And then we all just, we did that. And then, um, there was another clinic day. We, a lot of us

arranged to come in for an extra work day. Cause we were like, we have to be there for these patients. Um, so we're really giving all of our energy and it's exhausting and traumatizing. I can't, I feel like I can't say that enough, but, and we need more staff. We need better wages. We need better working conditions because it's so, it's like, at the end of some of these days,

it's like, how am I going to keep doing this? My body hurts. My brain hurts. I started having like issues with my memory where like, I couldn't remember anything because my brain just gave up on retaining information. And I'm like, I think this is like a trauma response. Like, yeah, I'm overwhelmed. System shock. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter?

Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. or wherever you get your podcast.

I think this is one of the things you get with working for NGOs, which is that, like, we're doing something like this. It's like there is work that needs to be done, but, you know, the employer's not giving you the resources that is necessary to do it, right? You have one person on a call line, like, the day after a fetal heartbeat bill goes goes into effect and it's i don't know it seems like one of the one of the things that's that that these ngos do is they they really you know they they make they make a mistake or they do something deliberately because they don't want to pay people and then they don't want to pay more people and they make you go deal with it because you know it has to get done because these people need you and that somebody has to do it

yeah and that's so gross it's disgusting so for me um i like to equate it as kind of like being emotionally gaslit because the whole point of health care and i've said this to other people in different health care roles that i've worked before because as we know healthcare is chronically understaffed like there's so many like nursing shortages like and things um is that healthcare is designed to draw people who want to help you have these like very strong moral and emotional beliefs um and we are paid to care. Like it is our job to care. Um, and that is how they can get all of these things out of us is because it's very easy to feel emotionally manipulated when somebody is like, well, somebody has to be there for this patient, this person, um, this like thing that can't wait. Um, and so a lot of us, um, this like thing that can't wait. And so a lot of us, even like I said before,

I worked here at like different positions that I've held. I've been like, I will take an extra shift because somebody has to do it. And I love my job so much. I love working in healthcare. It's something I've been very passionate about since I was a small child. So I, for years would burn myself out and be like, I'll take the extra shift at a different position. When I used to work at a care, I worked at an intermediate care facility for adults with intellectual and physical disabilities for a couple of years. And I remember routinely working 16 hour shifts like day in and day out. I think there was like six, seven days a couple of years. And I remember routinely working 16 hour shifts like day in and day out. I think there was like six, seven days a week of just doubles where I would work like 16 hour shifts. I don't think I like slept or ate or did anything. And then at one point I was so burnt out

that I just couldn't do it anymore. And I started to get frustrated with the people that I worked with and like the patients that I cared about and this one particular day I like noticed myself getting incredibly annoyed with everything that was like happening like sounds patients like just being themselves like I didn't you know take it out on anything or anyone. I just like noticed myself getting like slightly more irritated. And then I was like, this is not sustainable. I can't keep doing this. Um, and I compared this like recent change posted up the Dobbs decision to what it was like when I also used to work for distributing medical equipment to hospices.

used to work for distributing medical equipment to hospices um it felt like every single moment was an emergency that i just did not have the resources to be able to um help with because on one end of the line you have somebody that is having this emergency. And then on the other end of the line, there's another person pulling you because they're also having an emergency. And so you have to kind of weigh which one of these patients needs you the most right now, and which one of those can you reasonably help it's like that um psychology like psychology puzzle where they're like um if you move the thing on the track oh the lever the problem yeah the trolley problem where like one of these people will die or seven people will die and you have to decide which one of those you're gonna pull because there's only so much that we can give as health care workers as

abortion workers as reproductive health workers um there's only so many hours in a day and as much as we want to keep giving for us to keep pouring out of an empty cup is just not sustainable for ourselves like i know many of us have lost sleep many of us have stopped like being able to focus on anything outside of work because as soon as like you turn on the news or you open your phone or you like open up twitter there's more and more and more information because everything is consistently changing all of the time and like um West Virginia is currently having like their um Charlottesville clinic yeah so that's new and we had a couple calls come in from um

no we had Kentucky yeah so that was new um and we're just starting to like really have a good pattern of resources for patients coming in from like Ohio. And now we're like, okay, well, what about Kentucky? So we just like, we feel like there's just one like hole in the dam that we put our finger on and then another one shows up. And at some point, we just have to know that we've done our best um and that it's okay to take a second to rest um and you know go home and maybe like watch tv or listen to a podcast yeah but not about abortion yeah forget about abortion for two seconds and because we will inevitably have to do it again tomorrow this reminds me a lot of um i did an interview like i don't actually it'll be a couple of weeks i guess by when this comes out with

some organizers who were like trying to do like relief and aid for the the migrants who are getting bus to dc from texas i think from utah too and it was like they were talking about exactly the same thing where it's like we have to do this we have to do this because otherwise no one's gonna help these people but like at a certain point it's like everyone has covid like we just can't and it i don't know it's i think it's especially frustrating that this is happening because like those people were just like they have no resources right it's just a bunch of people who are doing a mutual aid thing but like this is planned parenthood like they have resources and they're not they're not doing this and they're doing this i i talked to a nurse who's a friend of mine a long time ago um on this

show and he talked you know he was a nurse during covid he's gotten covid twice i think and like you know he was talking about how like yeah he gotten covid twice i think and like you know he was talking about how like yeah he said this would be like thing i've always remembered was like i've seen people die because of i've seen people die because of staffing decisions yeah and it's like it's this it's this moral blackmail thing where it's like in in order to this thing needs to be done we're not going to actually provide you with enough resources to do it and we're going to make you responsible for the consequences of our actions and yeah it's it's grotesque yeah something that um really is just kind of like part of the trauma for the workers and and honestly for the patients and for everyone in our communities because this impacts literally everyone is um

just like turning like we do turn people away because, uh, pregnancy is a time sensitive issue and, you know, you have to get in, in a certain number of weeks in order to get, you know, the type of procedure that you want in order to get a procedure at all. And these are people that are often parents, the majority of people who have abortions are parents, um, and they have children and they have jobs and, or they don't have like PTO and they live four hours away. So it's like, how am I going to get to this appointment? So there's so many people that we have to refer. So it's so much on your soul to be on the phones and you speak to mother after mother, like a single mother or somebody who lost a partner or they are, you know, um, they got evicted and you're referring

them to Detroit, which is an also four or five hours away. And just to refer people to say, I can't help you try calling this place and to do that like multiple times in a row every day. And then you're like, you're working seven hour days. It is really soul crushing because it feels like, and like you tell yourself, like, it's my, you know, we don't have the resources. We don't have the staff. We weren't prepared for this crisis. It's not on me, but it's very hard not to feel awful when you are turning people away. Cause you don't, I don't know any, I probably turned like probably over a hundred people away on the phones and told them who to call.

I don't know if they reached those places. I don't know if they called those places for all I know, they continue to high risk pregnancy and they might suffer health consequences or things that debilitate them for the rest of their life things that make their children's lives worse and I have no way of knowing so it's just very traumatic to constantly be hanging up on the phone with people and just like sending them into like just a desert I think the hardest part too is that these phone calls aren't like two seconds long. They're not two minutes. When we, when we answer the phones, abortion appointments take about 15 to 20 minutes to schedule. So this is a half an hour that you are getting to know an individual, a person, they tell you everything about their lives. They tell you exactly what they're feeling,

what they're afraid of, what they're going through, what their family's like, what their financial situation is like. And then at the end, when you tell them or at the beginning, which I do often just to let them know what they're getting themselves into, when you tell them that you're booking like three weeks out, four weeks out, you can just hear it in their voice that they are so scared and so desperate. And there's nothing you can do about it because there's just not enough of us. There's not enough clinic days. There's not enough hours in the day to see all of these patients there is so much red tape that these patients have to go through to even get to this appointment there's a 24-hour phone

consent in the state of Pennsylvania um if they miss that they can't be seen and these are often like um depending on like the time of the phone call, some people work multiple jobs, they're like asleep, they can't make the phone call, they're sick, they don't have working cell phones, or they're in a situation where they're like have intimate partner violence, so they can't be on the phone for that long without risking their personal safety. And it's just really traumatizing. And I know that it's really common on the left and with like pro-abortion people to say like, you can't stop abortion. You can only stop, save abortion. And I totally support the sentiment behind that because people are

going to get abortions no matter what, but people also need to think about the people who give up because I have when I have been on the phone with someone and heard them give up yeah and it's it's it's it's traumatizing because like you know that you gave them the information that broke them where they were just like when I'm like okay you have to wait four weeks you have to drive drive four hours. You have to do this. You have to pay this. You have to do that. And then just for them to say, I'm sorry, I don't want to waste your time anymore. I just can't do this much right now. It's just too much. And just to hear their just resignation. Cause you know, I think, I feel like, you know, working in jobs, you might've heard people just like reach that moment where they hit their point, whatever their breaking point might be, whatever the context is, whatever the topic is.

But like when it's your life and it's your health and it's your family and they're just like, this is my breaking point and witnessing that, that does happen. And it's a tragedy every time that somebody abandons what they really want and their health and their well-being and um and it does happen and that's why this is a tragedy that needs to stop and i don't know when it's going to stop because it just kind of seems like it's going to keep happening and keep going and going and going in which case the trauma is going to like move like right now we're like bearing the brunt of it but it's going to to radiate from us and our patients. And we're going to see the ripple effects across the whole country. This is a severe generational trauma that's going to continue

for multiple decades. Yeah. Yeah, and it's, I mean, just on a basic level, it's not fair that even you have to deal with this. This shouldn't be happening at all. And it's that like

like all of the evil of the american settler state falling on like a bunch of people who have nothing and then a bunch of workers who are expected to show up and have to deal with all of their with all of their trauma too every day and it's just like a trauma palooza yeah and it's it's like flags and teachers but um and then we had a union rally recently and um uh we were very open and talking about how a lot of us work two jobs and and we have staff members who donate plasma so it's like we're doing this on top of a second job and donating our bodily fluids. I spoke at this rally and I was like, we're literally giving our flesh, blood, and tears

to this whole thing because it's just, we love it. We love all of our patients. We care about the work. We really want to make sure that our patients are going to be okay. And I think that's why we do it and also how we can justify feeling this way day in and day out. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter

Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors

that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. you get your podcast i want to i think move from this to talking about the contract negotiation process because like okay it is not okay for anyone to have like a 14 month long contract negotiation process it is especially not okay for you to have to do this so yeah can we can we talk

about what plant like what plan parish has been doing and yeah christopher might be better at answering the questions she's on our bargaining committee i'm on the bargaining team yay me i've been doing this for 14 months and like just oh god i'm so sick of these meetings. I'm so sick of them. I'm sick of talking to their lawyer. It's been long. They've been just really just dragging themselves. It's like carrying a dead body. Just like, it's like, oh, come on, come on.

Are you okay? We're gonna get there. You know, like we're just like dragging them and they are afraid of everything. Everything is, we got to see, we got to check, we got to, we got to look into it. And then you never hear back or maybe you hear back like three months, four months later. Um, they constantly want to bring in a mediator constantly. And it's like, there's nothing to mediate. Like,

what are we going to mediate you telling us that you got to get back to us? Like what was there to mediate there? And they're like, it will move it along. And it's like, yes, because they're doing the job for you. We want you to do it. We want you to have answers, you to figure it out. You're the bosses. You make the money. You're the one running the organization. Sorry, I started getting salty. No, it's completely valid. Being on the bargaining team has really nurtured my rage. It's been very exhausting. And I know we're going to win a good contract because we are badasses. And I think we're a really strong union and really strong team. Um, and we need, we need a livable wage because we're, we're getting pummeled. So,

um, it's been really frustrating, I guess it's like in short, it's really drawn out, frustrating, disrespectful. I feel like my time's been disrespected yeah you know i turn up every day um for for my employer in the clinic i'm an excellent worker and uh and they just waste like two three hours of my evening constantly i could have been on my porch drinking tea or something. I don't know. Something relaxing. Yeah. And I guess like any, I guess the other part was like, like every,

every day that they don't like sign a contract is another day. They get to get away with not paying you, not bringing more staff. And it's. And they're constantly trying to get delay contract negotiations too, where they're like, Oh, if you do this, we can, we'll give you a couple pennies, and then you won't be able to make any economic changes until the next fiscal year. And it's like, you think I want to wait till next July? I have a life. I have plans.

Yeah, I mean, I think we've talked about on the show before that one of the most common ways that unions fall apart and one of the things that corporations do and NGOs do to crush them is by trying to make sure the first contract fails. And yeah, it's a union busting thing. And it's grotesque, especially that it is like, okay, like with capitalist firms, capitalist firms like yeah you expect them to be union busting right like that that's their job their job is to ruthlessly smash labor but it's like this is an ngo like their job is to provide health care for people they're supposed to be a progressive organization they're still doing this and it's i don't know it seems just really grim I don't know. It seems just really grim. It is grim and it doesn't give a lot of hope to, I think just everyone living in this, in this country. Cause it's like, okay, so there's been a, a I was going to say attack,

but like attack doesn't feel appropriate. Like they have gutted abortion access, hurting everybody, causing like violence to people. And who do you look to? So you would think that you would look to these progressive abortion related organizations like Planned Parenthood, National Abortion Federation, NARAL. But all of them have nothing to give and nothing. They're there. You, you only hear bad news. You hear them shutting down. You hear them union busting. You hear them, um, requiring ridiculous regulations that aren't even necessary. And it just, there's no, they don't do anything to inspire hope. So it's like,

well, you need, you know, like prison culture and Maryam Iqaba says, like, you know, hope is a discipline. So I feel like a lot of us are like always looking to like a place to exercise our hope. And you're not going to get that here with some of these organizations. I think you are going to get it in, I think the repro unions, because I think there's a lot of us. And I think you are going to get it in, I think, the repro unions, because I think there's a lot of us. And I think that we're, I think that we are working our little hearts out. And I think you're also going to get it with some of these other organizations, like the abortion, like abortion funds,

and some of the practical support organizations that are really like getting on the level of patients who are patients or former patients and are like we're gonna get people abortions i think that's where hope is right now um but not with our employer yeah i wanted to i guess some of the things i wanted to ask about was sort of on a macro level i mean basically everyone we've talked to has talked about how like the ability to get an abortion is based on like a pretty small number of people who are like some, you know, people who are abortion clinic,

who are escorts, who are, who are like a lot of time volunteers, or it's people who are like you two who are being like horrifically underpaid to do the actual work of this. And I was wondering what you two think that like like the the way this like i don't know i guess like the the way everyone has sort of just been run ragged even keeping

the system how it was like what role that played on a sort of macro level in terms of why roe was like destroyed in the first place and what that's done to sort of the broader movement. I mean, no, they didn't do anything to prevent it. Like, it's just, what have we seen? What show of force or strength or commitment to abortion access have we seen in ever? Honestly, like, I can't even think. have we seen in ever, honestly, like, yeah, I can't even think other than like some loss or some legal wins we've celebrated. Like I do remember whole woman's health be Hellerstedt. What was that? 2016. That was like a win. And we were excited and we were like,

this is good news. And that's honestly the last. And again, that was just a court decision. So it was like not in our hands really anyways. So there's so little to work with and so little to look at outside of, I think, just some really excellent organizing from workers and practical support groups. And I really think that our community has been fabulous this last whole month. All of the support that we've gotten for our personal morale has been through friends or local businesses or people who know people who are are there to offer us like an ear, a hand, a cup of coffee. Some of our doctors bring in bagels. And this is like from their own pockets.

We'll bring in bagels. We've had like people donate and organize to bring in like coffee and stuff. I know that Crystal was receiving a lot of like donations herself um that we all use to buy ourselves like food drinks stuff for people were just like sending me money for the staff yeah and i thought that was really great but i also noticed that it came from outside sources and not from internal sources. These are all other people outside in our community who understand and value the work that we're doing and actively listen for what we need and what we're asking for. And I think that there's a lot to be said about that.

Yeah, honestly, the most hope and the most support has come from just like regular people. You don't really see it from anyone with anything, any actual money or power. And on that note, this has been It Could Happen Here. You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at HappenHerePod. And you can find Crystal and Elizabeth Union at PPWPUnion on Twitter and Instagram at HappenHerePod. And you can find Crystal and Elizabeth Union at PPWPUnion on Twitter. All for part two of this interview. And until then, goodbye. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

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