It Could Happen Here - Planned Parenthood's War Against Healthcare Workers, Part 2

Episode Date: August 24, 2022

In part 2 of our interview we discuss Planned Parenthood's anti-union retaliation and the importance of community support to workers organizing. @ppwpunion on Twitter  https://www.instagram.com/ppwpunion/?hl=en https://www.plannedparenthood.org/planned-parenthood-western-pennsylvania/get-involved/donate/vivian-campbell-fund https://www.wpafundforchoice.org/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Dick and Appin' Here, a podcast about NGOs portraying the working class and casting reproductive autonomy to the wolves. I'm your host, Christopher Wong, and this is part two of my interview with Crystal and Elizabeth from UE Local six, nine, six. They are once again, representing only

themselves and the union and not Planned Parenthood. Yeah. So let's get back to the interview. Okay. Should, should I, should I do a incredibly long and drawn out metaphor about migrant workers in China? Go for it. It's your podcast. Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to do a metaphor. All right, so one of the sort of engines of Chinese economic growth for a long time is that China's economy is built on migrant labor.

There are, I think it's like 250 million migrant workers. If you put them together as a country, I think like on 290, if you them together as a country i think like on 290 if you put together as a country it'd be like the fourth largest country in the world and this was able to happen you know and like the the sort of like the secret of the chinese miracle is that it was a bunch of workers who were exploited horribly and they also had

a lot a lot of these workers are coming from the countryside, and there's still sort of like kinds of forms of like communal land ownership that are left over from the socialist period there. And so what happens is you have these sort of like, I don't know, like kind of socialist collective air, like collective land ownership stuff that's like basically subsidizing these workers so that they can move into the cities. subsidizing these workers so that they can move into the cities and this means that their bosses have to pay like their bosses can pay them less because part of their income and part of their support network is coming from something that's outside of this or outside of the system and that's what this reminds me of where it's like this stuff is happening because of this incredible community mobilization and like that's where the support's coming from but that also means that the actual like the organizations who are getting the most money and the most resources and who are like you know who are your bosses don't have to do that because it's you know and

this is the same thing with with your labor too where it's it's you have these these like there's this way in which solidarity is mobilized as a way to sort of like stop gap. The fact that these groups don't want to pay people and don't want to give people the resources that are necessary. And so, because it has to get done, people will like,

people will do it and people will, people will donate stuff. People will help support. People will do this work. But the thing that it winds up doing is that these people are never actually forced to see the full consequences of their actions. They're never, never forced to like actually see what, what the staffing decisions does, what the fact that they don't pay you anything actually does.

They never have to face it because people are desperately trying to patch the boat together so it doesn't sink. Yeah. I've been thinking a lot, what would it be like if you know one of our higher up managers turned away all of these patients and it was them yeah no yeah what if they knew what it was like i remember picking up the phone um a couple weeks ago and the only thing that i heard when i picked up that phone was a blood curdling scream like this was like a scream out of a horror movie and then there were two thoughts and then dead and i don't know what happened to that person i don't know if they were able to call back i didn't call back because if that person is in danger right now, I'm not going to subject them to any more danger.

There's a reason that when we dial out, it's the restricted or block numbers, but it's moments like that, that stick with you. And the fact that we're having more and more of these moments where like every other call is not like exactly to that level but like emotionally still sticks with you and just for some additional um just like to kind of like build out this kind of like misogynistic context that we're working in it's actually super

common to get people calling in for abortion services, like in the middle of a fight with their partner. Yeah. I have had like men like actively obstructing the caller. And, you know, I'm trying to schedule them and they'll have me on speakerphone and everything. And I was like, are you able to get to like another place? Because I can't hear you over him. They'll have me on speakerphone and everything. It was when you were training me, too. We had a couple of those. And I was like, are you able to get to another place? Because I can't hear you over him. And he's like, I'm not doing anything.

And I'm like, I just need to be able to hear you. And like, yeah, so you get that. Because people want abortions for every reason under the sun and it's totally fine um people get abortions for lots of different reasons but a very common reason is because their partner sucks and he's a piece of shit he was abusive and they got to get away from him and um that's unfortunately common and we're on the phone getting that yeah sometimes we get to meet them in real life too and that's always super fun i always say that um i say to patients constantly that boyfriends either

only go one of two ways when we meet them in our clinic they're either wonderful and fantastic and very supportive um or they're just the worst and i've had patients' boyfriends who literally, while this person is mid-procedure, will be like, you're being dramatic and you need to stop. They'll take a phone call or something. They'll be playing games on their phone and they won't look at anybody. Or they'll actively leave their partner there and these are people that like were their rise oh yeah we've had people get abandoned yeah yeah they'll just be like i'm done i'm bored and then they'll just leave yeah and it's just so frustrating lots to deal with we have a lot to deal with the staff. And I always tell people,

cause I train staff at the clinic and I'm always like, we see everything here. And when I say, I say that, I mean it, we see literally everything like you just, and I'm sure there are other similar health provisions, like health services that it's kind of similar where you just kind of see everything. But yeah, we, we literally see everything because people when people come in for an abortion appointment yeah. Like we don't just talk about the procedure, you know, we do birth control counseling, STD screening. We provide resources for housing, legal support, therapy, finding therapists.

And we do so much because we're providing a comprehensive healthcare service. And again, something that we tell patients is that they can expect to be here for four hours, six hours. For five hours, yeah. It depends on the individual patient, their individual needs, and what services we can provide for them. And sometimes patients need a lot of TLC, and we're not going to rush that. They're going to get the services that they need and they want, and we're going to do it on their

time because they're very fragile, and that's not the time to run through. They're not always. So sometimes they're fragile and like, sometimes they're like, let's get this done. I just, I just want to, the whole range of we get, we get it. Yeah. But sometimes they're very fragile. Yeah.

We have had some really confident patients that I really like talking to though, that are very. Like ready to get it over with and are like, thanks for being here. And they just make my day. I love it when we're like, Oh, how did it, cause we have to, you know, we have to do like, make sure that they're not being coerced and everything. And it's like, so, you know, how are you feeling about everything? And they're like, I feel great. I can't wait to not be pregnant. And they're like dancing. Obviously that's nice. But you know, in reality, a lot of times when we ask someone how they're feeling and what's going on, we're like the first person to have asked them that in like two years. So then we're like opening up a space, which I'm so glad we get to do. I love working with patients. I love the services we provide. Um, but it's, it's what,

what sucks and what's a failure is that I'm like the first healthcare provider to like ask them how they're feeling and actually care and actually care. And like years, like we really get some, we get some patients who have been like chewed up and spit out by the healthcare system and no one's ever given a shit. And we all all we all are very good at giving a shit so um yeah it really seems like just like everything that's wrong with this country gets thrown at like you specifically because this is like it's like like every every sort of like every bit of racism every bit of racism, every bit of sexism, every failure of the healthcare system,

everything on a political level and on a social level that goes wrong with people's lives. Not forget good old ableism, too. Yeah. I think it comes up a lot with stigmatized health care um like abortion and then also hormone therapy i imagine yeah pretty similar as you're facing a lot of obstacles that are put up by the communities the institutions the health care system the employers like your family there's a i remember we did an interview with a uh-ocean activist from Mexico and one of the things that she was talking

about was she called it social decriminalization oh is it kind of like destigmatizing yeah yeah but it's like I think she didn't talk about it a huge amount but it seemed like the concept behind it was like okay so you have legal

criminalization but then social stigmatization means that it's still not really legal it was like okay so you have legal you have like legal criminalization but then yeah like social stigmatization means that it's still not really legal because there's there's like there's you know there's like social laws against the rights you have to like deal with both and that that struck me as like a really i don't know it's a really powerful like way to think about it i guess is it kind of like a moral thing where people think like it's not okay to get an abortion so you get like that pressure and that yeah and and i think and also i mean like it's not it's it's it's the pressure like applied on a person from just like you know like i mean in mexico is a lot of like

people were growing up catholic right but also like it's the pressure from your family it's pressure from your friends it's pressure from everyone around you and you have to like socially like legalize it because crystal's been doing this work longer than i have like i said i've only been working um at our current job for a year which i love um but definitely when i started um there were people in my life that i didn't think were gonna get weird about it i know a lot of liberal people most of all of my friends are very liberal, very open, pro-choice, like very union friendly. And immediately I noticed that when I started talking happily about abortions, people would get really quiet and really awkward.

people would get really quiet and really awkward um and they would be like that's great i'm happy for you but then that was like it like i couldn't and i'd be like no but like abortions and then they're great they're great people need them it's an essential service yeah and so i just upped up the ante more and i started talking about it a lot more this is what i gotta do gotta weed out the week like if you're uncomfortable with my job my job i'm not gonna not talk about it with you yeah but yeah that is a component to like also on top of literally everything else like um you know like how hard the job is and how then we gotta like rally as a union and get better wages and everything and then we like can't even sometimes talk about it because um because of stigma like with friends or family like I can't talk about my parents or I can't

talk with my parents about my job so it's just like this whole big part of my life because I'm pretty much like an abortion access activist and I just can't talk about it. And with them, which is just, you know, it's, it would be nice if I could, but I can't. And I just kind of deal with it. And then also even tiny normal situations like getting a haircut or getting an Uber, it's people ask you what you do all the time. I lie every time, but that's a decision you have

to make because sometimes I lie and sometimes I don't know what it is you just I'm gonna tell the truth and it's like a gamble because I've told the truth before and then an uber driver starts praying for me and then I've told the truth before and had someone um like open up to me and we have a great conversation and then I've told the truth before and had really awkward conversations they're like i support abortion i think some people have too many and it's like why are you telling me let's get out of here but um yeah this was a decision that i made for myself personally because of this one time i took an uber to work and i mentioned what i did and then that guy um started like talking about me to the antis in front of our job oh no and they were like talking about it was it was actually it

was a woman it was a it was a female uber driver I mentioned this to her um and she went up and was like I think that like what you guys are doing is like she was talking to the anti specifically she was like what you're doing is too aggressive you need to buy the building next door oh my god set up shop there and make it less antagonizing so people want to listen to you and then immediately in the group chat, everybody was like, who's talking to the antis? And I'm like, I just mentioned that I work there. And it was just a lot. So after that, I was like on my way to work at the very least. I'm just not going to talk about it.

I'm going to be like, I work at a doctor's office downtown. I know. It's like risk assessment. Yeah. I feel like the antis learned my name by listening for the Uber drivers. And I've gotten Uber drivers. They're like, who are you? What's your name? And I'm like, I'm not going to tell you cause there's a dude standing there that wants to follow me.

So you're going to deal with an Uber driver. Yep. We got to switch up patterns when we come into work sometimes too. And I do what I actually started when I call uber to work because I don't have a car all the time because I don't get paid that much but um uh when I have to uber to work um I've started getting dropped off like somewhere else and just walking because it's just too too many problems too much like it's yeah i got i get dropped off at like a different location like a couple blocks away from work at a different spot usually and then i just walk in like if you you might just want to go to work and drink your coffee and you have like your uber driver

joining the protest outside it's like ridiculous then it's worse because they know they picked you up they know where you live yeah and they know your name yep your name they want to shout your name out the door it's like because yeah the protesters learned my name and they like chant my name and we're like i'll walk by and they'll be like the whispering my name i'm like what is this this is kind of kinky but like yeah and we decide that they don't actually know who you are they just think everybody with bangs is yeah yeah yeah so for the listeners i have like pretty um blunt bangs yeah but i'm not the only

worker in the building obviously who has bangs but so everyone in the building it's like everybody with bangs is an abortion worker named Crystal. I guess that's reassuring. But also bad for other people with bangs because they might get killed. Yeah. It's like funny, but not funny. We try to like make light of it. We have to.

But we have to. Welcome. I'm Danny Trejo. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter. Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows. Presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories. stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters

to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah, so the other thing I just wanted to ask about was, Crystal, you've had the bosses doing disciplinary action for stuff that you've been doing in terms of union stuff. Can you talk about that a little bit? Technically pre-disciplinary but i

mean like what does it matter because like the point is the same is is intimidation yeah um it's very easy to do is to get your lawyer get your hr and have them talk to someone and then everybody knows about it because everybody talks at work and bad gas travels fast. And then they, and the whole idea is to, to scare people into not talking to reporters, not talking to people about what's going on. And I feel like it's difficult to talk about what's been happening. Like this is like, I keep saying it. It's a, it's a national health crisis. It's a disaster. It's a tidal wave. It's a hurricane and it's generational trauma. We're using all of these words. And then like, I feel like I'm pressured into not even talking about it because I'm talking about everything. I'm talking about how we're understaffed. I'm talking about how we're seeing patients from all over. I'm talking about how traumatizing it is. And for whatever reason,

it's just more comforting for some of these organizations to hide under the table with their lawyer and just like shake in their boots and say like, we could be sued for this. We could be sued for that and what if that happens what if this happens and like for me it's like well you know what what what if someone dies because we can't get them in and they can't get to us because of legislation and there being no health care infrastructure because part of of healthcare is also getting to the appointment. Yeah. So if like none of that exists and like people are suffering because of it, like I just can't

keep my mouth shut about that. And I definitely feel like as like somebody, a member on the bargaining team, and I also emceed our rally, I feel like there's been a lot of pressure on me and my big mouth. there's been a lot of pressure on me and my big mouth. I feel like they're trying to intimidate me and scare me. And I'm blessed for a couple of reasons. Number one, my dad, who is otherwise conservative and doesn't support anything that I do, but he was a union steward. And growing up, I would see him resolving conflict as a union steward. And that was very influential and inspirational to me because it really instilled some good values, even though we don't have the same values, obviously.

But there's that. Like I developed like a strong sense of labor rights and labor activism from him. And then two, my first career choice was a middle school teacher. So I taught seventh and eighth grade for about seven years. So like literally nothing scares me because after you've talked to a cafeteria full of 120 13 year olds, it's like, that's it. That's like the scariest thing ever.

So I'm not really afraid of the bullying and the intimidation, which is good because it definitely is very effective. And I'm sure a lot of people would be pissing themselves, but I'm pissing myself a little bit, but no, I'm fine. I have a second job after all. Even that, that's like, fuck, the fact that you have to work another job like what they're like one of the things i noticed is they're they're doing they're doing the uh working you for 35 hours and not 40 because yep yeah so they don't pay benefits

i don't know like the the impression that i get from this and the thing that makes you really angry is like it really feels like like the like how worried they are about being sued it feels like like the fact that that's sort of like the basis of all this and just like they they they're behaving as if they've already lost and they're trying to sort of like like claw and hold on to whatever they have but it's like if if if you're if you're fighting from the position of we have already lost you're you're just going to keep losing and it's like and and and you know it's not just that but it's like okay like if they were just doing that but then you know like not passing like not literally

forcing everyone else who's working with them to also be in the same sort of defeatism like it would be different but it's like it's like no they're they're then inflicting that on you and it's just infuriating yeah i think this also um to segue to something that actually had happened to me today um as part of um you know being in a call center for an abortion provider is that we, I think this instills like a sense of fear for providers as well, for their own personal safety. It just makes it feel bigger because you have all these other people. It'd be like, well, it's, it's like, these are all these things that could happen to you. This is what might happen to you. Um, and I think that it makes providers have to evaluate, you know,

their own risks to what they do. Um, and if you are somebody with not as strong values for this work, like it's not a strong opinion towards this work it causes you to just neglect patients because I had an incident that happened today where we had somebody call from a different state where abortion is not legal and they had their best friend in the car with them and they were like my friend is like actively hemorrhaging she's been like bleeding for days um do you have like an emergency appointment like we can drive up to PA um like what do I do she's been to her doctor three different times and they refuse to treat her because the pregnancy is like viable and in my brain I'm just shaking because I'm like this is a this is your job like your first thing as a doctor is to make sure so I was like, if your friend is losing so much blood that

you are worried for her safety, um, uh, I know on the phone, they were talking about how she felt like she was like getting dizzy and like losing a ridiculous amount of blood. And I was like, I strongly suggest that you go to a hospital where abortion is legal since you're planning on, you know, coming up for an abortion anyway. Because in that case, they would have to treat you no matter what. And if, you know, it's going to result in an abortion, then at the very least you're protected because you're here, you're cross state lines. And I'm like, because any, any hospital has to treat you, um, for something that serious.

And it's, it's scary to think that there are definitely other, other providers and other like places where this kind of thing is also happening. And I just worry that, you know, what if I was 10 minutes late? What if I was two minutes late? What if I was 30 seconds late? What if I told her to wait? Like some places kind of have to, or I told her that I couldn't help her.

Like some places kind of have to with these laws. I don't think that I could live with the guilt of that. It's just another added trauma to the day and I feel like a lot of people said and like these people suck but a lot of people were saying that like stuff like this wouldn't happen I know for a fact that I had so many I'm very vocal about abortion access in my work and I've had people tell me, people won't be hemorrhaging and driving across state lines. And I'm like, absolutely, they will be. Absolutely. And this was like a month ago. And then, well, more than a month ago, time goes fast. But like, this was like

prior to Dobbs, I should say. But, and it's just when they were telling me like, I don't believe you. And I'm like, what do you mean you don't believe me. This is the most believable thing. And then to have had people say that it wouldn't happen and to like, call me a liar and like a drama queen. And then now to like, I mean, I wasn't, I didn't get a call like that, but like to hear like my coworker. And like, and then just like hearing it happen elsewhere. Cause like, you know, we have comrades and, union um siblings in Ohio um with other unions and they've talked about it happening and just so hearing my my um my peers talking about it

and just knowing like we knew this would happen and we I just it feels like we just like walked right into it with no plan there's still still no plan. People are still in cars, driving across state lines while actively hemorrhaging. And I don't know what will be done other than us workers really stepping up and hopefully the community then supporting us. Because we can't do it without community support. Like Elizabeth was saying before, you know, oh, and when Elizabeth was actually talking before about the food that we've been getting from the community. And this also made me think of what it looks like to turn up for workers in general, because, you know, we're all workers here. And like, we know what

it feels like where you're too busy to stop and eat and you're just going through your day and you're running on fumes and you're exhausted. But the fact that our community was like feeding, has been feeding us and like turning up for us to the point where like, I was having good, healthy food consistently from day to day. I haven't eaten that well since then. And then it really got me wondering, like, is this is what it likes? This is what it's like when you have well-fed workers and that are cared for. So, you know, if the only people answering the call for these these people who need health care are us, we're exhausted.

We don't have time to go out and get food, especially since we got people following us down the street and whatever. While we go get a hot dog, trying to bother us. But then to have like the community bringing us food and then being well-fed, it was just like, oh my God, what if all workers were well-fed and all communities turned up for their workers? Wouldn't that be so nice? And it got me thinking like, wow, this is like a really positive thing that is not really talked about. Like, I mean, we talk about feeding people, but like, what if workers were well fed? Like, I don't know, like healthcare workers. It's just, it's been really nice. And I love our community. I love our city. I love the organizations that

have been organizing it. We're incredibly grateful. Yeah, they're fantastic. They're so good to us. I know that for those couple of weeks where we had food in our break room, I think we worked a lot better. Everybody was in much better moods. Didn't get shaky hands. Yeah. We were all like really excited to like see each other and talk to each other and talk about our days um just over like actually good coffee and it was just a huge morale boost to have the community supporting the workers and then now we have the community coming to our union rally saying we

support you we want you to get paid more. We want you to have better staff. And that is just like, oh, so necessary right now because we need the community. We need everyone. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America.

From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What else can listeners listeners who are who are like want to help but are not in the industry do just uh to support you all well i guess on on two levels like one is like it like what can they do sort of in general in their communities and then two specifically to help y'all with your fight with the hospital we're not the clinic yeah we're just a little clinic yeah we're just a tiny little tiny little guy um i know that for us specifically i think do what you do best if you are a person who likes to make art um we love seeing your drawings we love seeing like your handwritten notes.

Um, if you're a person who makes a really good cup of coffee, um, or if you're a cafe who just wants to like bring us coffee, we love coffee. Um, if you're a bakery that wants to donate like donuts or, you know, cheesecakes, we will happily eat them. we will happily eat them um if you yeah if you want to like send us a bluetooth speaker so we can like listen to music during the day whatever you do best is what we would love as long as it comes from like you comes from your heart like we love um weighted blankets and fluffy things and snacks and just all of those things that come like from the heart make us feel like it's worth it, at least from the community. And things also that we don't have to think about, because as beautiful as make your own taco kits are, we still have to have time to make our own tacos. Assemble the taco. as beautiful as make your own taco kits are we still have to have time to make our own tacos yeah so if if there's anything that you could just like throw at us and it's already like

put together like assembled has very little thought like a um a zombie or a toddler or a burnt out abortion worker can you know put two and two together we We love those two. And you could also follow our union. And there's actually a bunch of abortion care worker unions. We're not the only one. We are many. We are Legion. So you could really follow any of us and just boost what we need because right now the PPFA union, like New York City, San Francisco is needing a lot of boosting with what they're doing. Guttmacher union needs a lot of love and support. But our union, UE Local 696, our social media is at PPWP union. Not to self-promote, but if you go on there, there are videos of our rally.

And I made a leadererus shaped pinata. If anyone wants to see us busted open, it's pretty cool. We busted open a uterus shaped pinata at our rally. And as we brought up a union family child, cause it was a, it was the son of a local union member. We brought him up and we helped him smash the piñata, the uterus piñata. And as he was swinging, it was like, this is what we think about low wages. This is what we think about SCOTUS. This is what we think about understaffing. And then candy just like burst out of it.

It was like a normal birth, you know, glitter and candy pop out. Very realistic. Actually abortions too people don't know this but glitter always comes out during an abortion can confirm there's gonna be there's gonna be like three people who actually believe you they're gonna they're gonna like tell their friend this and their friend's gonna be like what are you talking about there you're like no no i heard it on a podcast we're like the cervix sprays glitter when you when you touch it dilating the cervix is really just opening it up so that it can have glitter come out yeah i guess well okay so logistics wise yeah if you send me links i will we will put them in the episode description. Sweet.

Yeah. And yeah, I guess do you two have anything else that you want to say? I don't think so. Other than like, thank you for having us. Yeah, of course. This is super fun. We had a great time. Yeah, me too.

Yeah, it was good. I love talking about abortion. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Me and Elizabeth on the phone just gabbing away. And we'll, like, be on a call 20 minutes talking to, like, someone who needs help. And then we'll, like, get off. And then we'll be gabbing about whatever for, like, 10 minutes.

Mostly TikToks. Mostly TikToks. But, yeah, no, it's so important that we can be platformed as like abortion care workers, as union members, as people working in a stigmatized field during a crisis. It's very, it means so much. And it's meant a lot to me to see how many abortion episodes this podcast has. Like, you're really covering everything. Yeah, I was looking them up and I was like,

it's every angle of abortion care and I love it. We love to see it. It's my knowledge, too. We love to see it. You're going to run out of topics, though, eventually. But you really should have an episode about the cervix glitter.

Yeah. So this will be our April... Well, actually, wait. Our April Fool's episode is actually booked. It'll be the second April Fool's episode. It's actually booked. It could be the second April Fool's episode. More people need to know about this phenomenon. Alright, this has been NakedHappen here. You can find us

in the places where you know where to find us because we say this at the end of every episode. Yeah, thank you two again. No problem. Thank you two again. Thank you. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com

slash sources. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow of Wrath. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of riot.

An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturno on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.