It Could Happen Here - Protecting Your Community In A Hostile State

Episode Date: July 6, 2022

Robert sits down with representatives from the Dallas-based Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club to talk about their recent defensive actions to oppose right wing attacks on the local LGBT community.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to It Could Happen Here. I am Robert Evans, and this is a podcast about things falling apart and sometimes how to put them all together. And, you know, today we're actually going to be talking more about the latter, which I know is revolutionary for us. We're usually just kind of like getting way more into the Doomer stuff.

But I think there's been more than enough of that, particularly in the wake of several horrific Supreme Courtings that i don't really need feel the need to go into detail on but one of the things that has happened in the wake of these rulings is this like kind of liberal reaction to the fact that to the fact and they're right to be angry about the fact that they're being essentially governed by a small minority of people who are very densely geographically located in the south that is where like the bulk of the support for the the hard rights policies comes from um and it's led to this like fuck texas fuck florida fuck uh these these quote-unquote like red states these regressive states which is this deeply problematic for a number of reasons including the fact that you know if you just want to look at it in terms

of party politics uh there were more people who voted for a Democrat in Texas in the 2020 election than live in either the state of Oregon or Washington. These are densely populated places with tremendous amount of people who are people of color, who are trans, who are, you know, in some way threatened by this weird Christo fascist bullshit that is increasingly clamping down on the country. And so today I wanted to talk with some folks who live in and around the Dallas, Texas, what we call the DFW area, Dallas-Fort Worth, and who have lately been organizing to kind of both confront this rising Christofascist, like the street aggression portion of it, and to provide support and defense for people who are being victimized by it.

So I'd like to welcome some representatives of the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club to the show. Hey, y'all. Hi. Yeah. Do you want to kind of introduce yourselves to start, however you'd like to be known on the show? Yeah. I'm Satan. I'm Bubble.

Satan and Bubble. And how long have y'all been, like, doing? Because there's two specific things that kind of, I don't know. I became aware of y'all, and we had some brief interactions, or I had some brief interactions with some of your folks in 2021 during the snow thing that destroyed everything. And so I've been kind of watching y'all's socials ever since. And there were a couple of things recently that struck me as very worth

discussing actions that y'all were a part of. One of them was there's a neighborhood in Dallas called Oak Lawn that is kind of colloquially known as the gayborhood. It is like the gay neighborhood in Dallas called Oak Lawn that is kind of colloquially known as the gayborhood. It is like the gay neighborhood in Dallas, obviously. And so it's a place that, you know, even before kind of things got a little easier after 2014, 2015, it was kind of a safe place and a little bit like of a fortress for like people who are not, you know, straight and cisgender, which is, and kind of are, you know, for an idea of how aspects of the DFW area can be the town I grew up in Plano had a condoms to go move in. And within like two nights of setting up shop in Plano, somebody fired a nine millimeter handgun through the window. Like it's not a, it's a place where it could be difficult. And so obviously repression and kind of violence and fears of vigilante violence from folks who

are queer has, is, is understandably amped up in the wake of everything that's been happening. And y'all carried out an action where a sizable group of leftists marched armed through the gayborhood. Um, the one of the, there were a couple of different chants that, that I was hearing. One of them was, um, about bashing back,

something like that. You want to talk a little bit about like that action and what actually went down? Um, sure. So at the beginning of pride month, we had a large group of fascists come to the gayborhood. Um, you know, they were shouting rumor.

They were telling us the fist of Christ is coming down on you soon. And, you know, making really out there threats. So we discussed, you know, what we could do to be proactive to make sure that doesn't happen again. you know, what we could do to be proactive to make sure that doesn't happen again. And we ended up getting together some groups who were interested in an armed demonstration, which even here in Texas is not something you see too often. And we decided to march through the gayborhood. You know, I would say a majority of the people that we know are LGBT, and it's our neighborhood.

So we put on this demonstration there, and it was kind of incredible. We got some looks, but we also got a lot of support. We had a lot of great chants, you know, bottoms, tops, we all hate cops. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. These days, bash back. Yeah, that was the one that was in the video.

And so what was the, I'm interested in kind of, because I think this is the kind of thing that is potentially very useful. And because I think this is the kind of thing that is potentially very useful. We have seen one of the things that I have personally observed and that has been observed by a number of folks is that when these kind of right wing mobs who primarily want people who cannot defend themselves, who don all these weird little groups, primarily what they want to do. They don't want a fair fight. And when they are confronted with organized people on the left who are armed, that tends to scare the shit out of them. that day where you had those Christian fascists kind of coming after that queer family event, like one of the one of the live streams that one of the right wingers had people were some of them were like commenting on the fact that there were people leftists open carrying and like how unsettling they found that. So I'm interested in kind of how the idea to we're going to do this, have this kind of a march, you know, through this neighborhood, we're going to do this have this kind of a march you know through this neighborhood we're going to make sort of a show of force how that idea kind of came together and then what logistically did y'all like feel the need to set up like i'm going to guess it wasn't as simple as like hey everybody with a gun like come come meet here and we're going to have us a walk um so i'm interested in

kind of what the logistics are because i think this is the kind of thing that people other people are going to want like find useful to do like statements of we are here we have the tools to defend ourselves and we're not going to just passively let you run through our neighborhoods fucking with us um i think logistically one of the big things was just making sure that you know everyone who was carrying was carrying properly and then also to protect our own selves making sure that, you know, everyone who was carrying was carrying properly. And then also to protect our own selves, making sure that whoever was carrying was also protecting our identity by wearing essentially full black walk, which that in itself sends a message. You know, a bunch of queer people marching through the streets of Dallas in full black

walk with guns, sends a message like, we're not going to take your shit, we're done. You know, you're not going to mess with our bodily autonomy. That march happened, we had planned it to be on that day originally, and that happened to be the day that Roe v. Wade was overturned. And it essentially just evolved that morning to a more intersectional bodily autonomy march. But really, logistically, it was mostly about protecting ourselves and making sure that people who weren't carrying the firearms were also protected from our firearms. Yeah, I want to dive into that a little bit, because that's such an important aspect of it is the ensuring say, I have seen a lot of marches. And I will be honest, I've seen a lot of people being armed on on both sides politically, who have done things with guns that I would consider

reckless. Probably the top moment in my mind is during a big march in Portland, somebody leaned over and a Glock fell out of the front pouch of their hoodie that they were just had loose in there. Yeah. So obviously it is not as, it should not be as simple as like, you know, load up on guns and bring your friends, so to speak.

How do you attempt to ensure, like how do you actually go about handling the safety aspect? Are you appointing essentially kind of like range officers before the march? You were keeping an eye on shit. What does that actually look like? I want to give two examples. For the march we did in the Gabor Hood, it was different in that it wasn't publicly announced

where it was going to be. So it was kind of a by invitation only demonstration. So we knew pretty much everybody that was coming, except for people in the neighborhood who kind of joined ad hoc. So that's one way that we've done things. When we do more of like protest security for other actions, you know, there are different people who will feel motivated to bring arms. And usually they know what they're doing pretty well.

In the couple of instances where someone is being unsafe, you know, one of us will just go over there and talk to them, you know, like, hey, you really need a sling for this or, you know, don't don't be pointing it in any way at a building. Just little tips like that to, you know, resolve the behavior. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes

with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them.

Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people.

I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture,

musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture

to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So when it actually comes to like, because one of the things like whenever you have sort of a gathering like this is de-escalation, and even within people within the march, potentially, like, dispute resolution and that sort of thing.

What was the, how did you kind of organize for that? Like, what was the planning on that like? I think that's a really important question. One of the first things that we decided pretty early on is that uh we are not there to police any protesters so you know if someone is is doing something illegal uh and no at no point will we you know tell them to stop or try to make them stop we may move away from the area or something like that but we're not there to police our people at all when it comes to like counters coming up and antagonizing, the main thing we do is try to put ourselves between them and any people they're targeting.

And, you know, we have cameras, we have less than lethal, we have different tools to try to deescalate that. Yeah. And so when it comes to like, I guess, training on that end, did you have any sort of like infrastructure, human infrastructure, whatnot, set up prior to this to like make sure people who were like doing de-escalation were folks that you knew, you know, had some level of understanding mean it strikes me that there is a great deal of like trust that's necessary to put together something like this to be able to meet up with folks and and like march armed together requires probably a little bit more in in the way of of trust than you know just showing up at a protest um that's kind of more conventional um was there sort of some any kind of like i don't't know, system or, or like, yeah, training or whatnot that y'all had for specifically like how to behave, how to deescalate all that kind of stuff? Or was it just like folks that kind of, you knew from, from prior events

were good at that sort of thing? I mean, as far as our group goes, I can speak for myself personally and say that I trust each one of our people with my life. And I think because of that and because we were really the ones putting it on, like, we knew that if something were to go down, one of us would get in the middle of it. And we all trust each other. I think that in any sort of organizing environment, trusting the people that you're working with 100% is one of the most vital things that you can do because they're going to be the ones beside you when a proud boy rolls up and you want the person

beside you to be someone that you can trust. And we do that. We do have, you know, we do practice and we do train together. And we also have fun together. And having that certain level of trust means the world when you're putting yourself out there in that way. And how long of the folks that are kind of like you're most affiliated with like making this happen? How long have y'all been sort of organizing and doing stuff together? I would say most of us met since 2020. A lot of us met in organizing different facilities during 2020 after the George Floyd protests. And then just the boom in mutual aid that happened in DFW after that, whether it was through homeless outreach or bail bonds or however we met each other.

It was mostly through that mutual aid community and getting out in our communities and organizing ourselves and trying to find like-minded people who wanted to see the same change happen. like-minded people who wanted to see the same change happen now um i think one of the uh one of the things that's been on my mind a lot lately and that that y'all particularly bring up is the challenges of organizing in parts of the country where not just you know the police who are always pretty regressive but the entire legal legal structure is set up to, as Florida has increasingly done, as a number of states have done, like punish protests, penalize activism, make things more dangerous for people who are like going out there in public, in addition to doing things to try and criminalize, you know, people who are not straight, you know, white Christians. So when you look at the challenges of organizing

in a place where it's more dangerous, and obviously it's not particularly safe to be organizing against the LAPD, but the court system in California is broadly speaking less stacked against you. So if you had advice to give to people who had, don't have this group of friends and people they've been organizing with for a couple of years already, but they want to have that, they want to build that in their community, where would you suggest they start? to all kinds of events, you know, supporting a broad range of groups. And, you know, if you're at the protests, if you are at the feedings, the distributions, you're going to meet people and you're going to build trust, mutual trust there. So that, you know, when you want to start a project, you want to start a group, you'll have those people that know you.

It is very dangerous uh i think it's always important to tell people to watch your opsec you know don't be resharing all kinds of activist stuff with your personal profile that has your name and your birthday and all of that but yeah it really goes to meeting people in person i think yeah and um i, that's such a difficult part of it, because I think for a lot of people, particularly who maybe are living in rural areas who are living kind of outside of places that have well formed protest communities, social media and the internet is is a lifeline for them. And often in a lot of cases, like how they came to a lot of the political beliefs and a desire to do something. But you're right like you can't you you have to actually get like face to face on the ground with people to actually build the kind of relationships that can lead to the sort of

activism that y'all are doing and that's that is a tough needle for a lot of people to thread i think and you know in those more rural communities if there's not already those systems in place, set up a monthly meal distribution with the local homeless shelter or the local homeless camp. And if you can get a few friends, more people will show up and you can build that community yourself, even where it's not existing already. It's more about just finding those like-minded individuals that are already existing in your community and getting to know your neighbors. Yeah. And to trust your neighbors. I think that's a great, as far as a plan of action

goes, as good as you can get for at least starting down that road. Before we kind of move on from this specific action, I did want to talk a little bit about the conversations you had both with like people who lived in oak lawn and also with um you know passers-by i'm wondering like um did you have any that particularly surprised you or that particularly stick out to you right now i personally was a little bit more surprised with the amount of support that we received um just because while oaklawn is the gayborhood it is a generally more blue liberal yes part of town uh very anti-gun typically yeah very yeah and to see you know people sitting on the patios of the bars cheering for us while we were walking by, especially as someone who has been,

you know, grown up in that area, it meant a lot. You know, it really shows almost like the cultural shift that we're going as far as leftist politics go, if people are going to be supportive of us. Yeah, that's really interesting to hear. Now i were there did you have any kind of interactions with sort of i don't know people who were who were more conservative or more on the on the center right side of things i think we had a couple people um who were kind of filming and frowning it's always hard to tell yeah in that case but no one really said anything to us that's interesting i mean yeah, I was a cop. Yeah, and now that kind of brings me to the next topic,

which is how did Dallas, how did DPD handle this? We could even hardly out of our cars, but we had multiple police cars surrounding us while we were just unloading. They were constantly trying to guess where we were going with the march by cutting off streets and trying to like escort us and like, you know, blocking traffic and things like that.

But we were there less than five minutes before, I would say at least four police cars were surrounding us asking us questions they were pulling out their guns like we were a threat jeez um well i mean yeah that's i that doesn't surprise me um did you have any kind of like direct is did they send like the pios up to try and you know talk with organizers or whatever um so they did right at the beginning and i think that interaction went really well um because they approached us as we were getting ready and they said you know what group is this who's in charge who's who's leading what are your plans and you know every single person who was there was disciplined

enough to either say nothing or say no plans there's no group there's no leaders and you know after that they kept their distance they did not really interfere more yeah i mean that that is one of those things um that uh police i don't know, I've always found it useful to when you are having when you have to have an interaction with a police officer and sometimes it is unavoidable. Like you need to kind of focus on like, what are the things that they need to hear for this interaction to like end and end, you know, not in them getting violent um and i think it sounds like yeah you you y'all handled it perfectly like that that was the right way for everyone to react like you were it is texas like it's not like it is at all illegal to walk around with guns um so yeah i mean that's that sounds that sounds again i'm impressed by kind of both the boldness of the action but also the discipline that was required to actually – that was required like from the ground up, right? Not because like there was some sort of like vanguard leadership exerting force downward in order to actually make this work safely and in a way that left hopefully, and it seems like this is the case, people

who live in the area feeling, broadly speaking, pretty good about it. I would say that, you know, since the march in particular, just in DFW in its entirety, the support that we have received has been almost overwhelming. You know, people now recognize the people in Black Block as being safe, and they're going to help us. If I need something, I can go to them. And that's the whole purpose of community defense is having, like, my goal would be to have everyone be that person. Now, the other thing I would wonder, because it's, I, i you know i've spent a lot of time at black block protests but generally in portland oregon where a hot day is like 80 degrees

um y'all are in fucking dfw um those those summers are no joke and wearing the gear that y'all are wearing is is um a potentially dangerous thing right like was there was there was it kind of individual or left up to affinity groups to like figure out hydration and stuff? Or did you have people who are kind of watching folks and reminding them and like trying to ensure that like that part of it was handled? Because that does strike me as a specific risk in this case. Most of us do have at least minor street medic training, as well as our own hydration kits and we all carry extra electrolytes and things like that for people who may not be part of our group who may also need assistance

that's a big part of it here in texas is that that's the main risk with protesting in the summer is dehydration heat exhaustion heat stroke yeah yeah You know, we do recommend that the people who are in Black Block wear moisture-wicking, loose layers. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Merino is your friend if you can get it. Yeah, exactly. But, you know, all of us are, you know, at least trained enough to recognize those symptoms. We make scenes that we can pass out to people um about how to

protest safely in the summer in the heat specifically that's great so much more dangerous now one of the things i've been seeing recently and this is i'm guessing from a more recent march was that the photo going around that's going to kind of viral uh on right-wing social media of um it's a black and white photo there's's an individual with a plate carrier and an AR and another individual with like a chest rig and what I think is a Beretta carbine. And both of them are at a reproductive rights march. And there's a mix of really interesting reactions from the right like on this um and i'm interested in kind of yeah your thoughts there yeah so it's it's been really weird um we try to track whatever's being posted about us um sometimes it can give us intel on people who might want to target us um but we've been noticing you know it's like a solid third of right-wing comments are kind of

broadly supportive i think it really throws them for a loop um you know we we've even seen people saying uh actually bodily autonomy is a lot like gun rights and things like that so that's been it's been really weird i think um being armed might kind of humanize us for some of those people in a way it's been a weird thing i have thought a couple of times that i mean a number of times i talked about this on the first season of it could happen here i think that there is some like potential to bridge some divides there with kind of the existence of of an increasingly prominent left-wing gun culture. I know one of the comments I saw was somebody like going through the gear display and being

like, actually, no, they're reasonably well set up. And like, everything seems like this is exactly how you'd, you know, want to have it done. And just people being like actually appreciative. And I guess maybe there's a degree to which like if you're if you're in that community from a right wing side, but not like a straight up fascist side, maybe there's a potential for like more commonality. And like you said, the idea that like, oh, maybe some of them will actually broaden their support for reproductive rights, you know, or at least consider it. Yeah, I don't know. That doesn't strike me as like a negative move. I don't know that that doesn't strike me as like a negative move. And it is particularly in a place like Texas. You have to try to at least have some sort of common ground with people who are more on the right wing side of things because there's so damn many of them. Yeah. So I think it's one of those cases where when ideological where when ideology gets atomized to just like guns good you know that is like a

core belief for some people um that can draw them to being supportive of pro-choice marches in a in a weird way it's it's kind of a pretty specific kind of brain worms but uh yeah i'm seeing it a lot yeah i wouldn't like call it necessarily a positive like it's a it's an aspect of things that are negative but it's something that also can be like useful and and potentially positive like even though if you get into what's leading someone to like oh i re i re-examined my beliefs on reproductive rights because i saw some people marching with guns that's not like a sign of of a series of thought process that I think is like wildly positive, but at least somebody maybe came around on something. I mean,

it's a, it's a step in the right direction. Yeah. It's better than them going the other way. You know, we've been talking about the effects of getting all this right wing attention. And,

uh, you know, in a way that's what we want. We want to advertise that we have strong community defense. And on the flip side, you get all these supportive comments and hopefully those people don't want to kill me anymore. So it's just a net positive, we think. of protests can increase security for a community like one way is that maybe there are people who will get scared off because they don't want to risk like getting shot and the other is that maybe some people will re-examine their opinions on that community because it's now more familiar to them because they're probably way too into guns but yeah absolutely Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter?

Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters, Modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network,

available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me

in a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting We'll be right back. or the stories that shape our culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars,

from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season

digging into how Tex Elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse, and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every

week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. So let's talk about, there was a specific action that kind of the thing that was going around on Twitter was these proud boys trying to get into a believe it was a library and like a line of parents squaring off with them to like stop them. Can we talk a little bit about that? Yeah, that was in McKinney. It was the day after Roe Wade got overturned and we honestly didn't know what to expect when we got there because of McKinney. We were like are we gonna be very much so outnumbered in this and when we arrived there was

already about 30 to 40 people who were either parents or friends of the library there in support and maybe only 15 or 20 people in opposition so it was you know a pretty good welcoming supportive environment and about 30 minutes after we got there is when the proud boys arrived and we just really only had to tell two people hey they're proud're Proud Boys. And before I, before we could even get over there to like block them off ourselves, there were like eight to ten soccer moms in their flip flops, Nike shorts, and handmade signs standing in front of them and blocking them from coming any closer. And, of course, they did get closer as people were leaving the library

and the event was ending and things like that. But it was one of those things where it just organically happened, and it was beautiful. That's awesome. And a place like McKinney, of all places. I grew up in North Texas. McKinney's the last place I would up north texas like yeah yeah yeah i would expect find like a soccer mom in nike shorts ask like thanking me for bringing my gun to the library

yeah that's that's wonderful to hear i mean and i people who are not in the dfw area won't understand this but like yeah i spent a significant chunk of my early life in McKinney and I would not have expected that reaction there. Yeah, that's really, really good to hear. And it also is, you know, I obviously have been supportive of a number of tactics to confront fascism, including people showing up and blocking stuff and protesting or confronting them physically. and protesting or confronting them physically. But I don't think there's any more durable kind of community self-defense than that, than a group of people who are just kind of live in an area and around and curious, realizing there's a threat and immediately acting against it.

Like that's such a powerful thing. Yeah, saying no, not in my neighborhood yeah and you know again like we didn't expect to have that reaction which made it that much better when we saw it and you know having those people for the first time in their life maybe even come face to face correctly with bashes probably has a lasting impact on them as well like i hope that they keep going to more events like that and keep going and protecting their community from these people now let me ask you when you have these kind of interactions with folks and when you had these specific interactions with those specific folks is there kind of is there sort of an information spreading thing afterwards is there like a hey here's who we are and like where you can find out more about us um like kind of attempts to

like let people know who you are and what you're doing and how they can you know follow you and whatnot like is that a uh is that a is that a a part of the activism or was it more just like we're showing up to kind of provide a barrier for these people and like that's not this is not the time or place for that it's a little bit of both a lot of these actions we are invited to we have kind of made it a point to be known as we are here to help so a lot of times we will get invited or people will send us an event and we will we do usually try to get in touch with whoever's organizing the event to make sure that they are comfortable with us either open carrying or what they prefer is to concealed carry and things like that. Because it is still necessary to be polite.

But then also when we do, we always meet people at these actions who are wanting to get more involved in just that one time. And we is a place that is I mean, the city itself is fairly blue. But there is I mean, even within the Dallas area proper, a tremendous amount of people who are like extremely conservative, obviously, I mean, we've I don't want to be harping on this too much. are concerned about like attempts at infiltration and whatnot or attempts to yeah like kind of like you know to do sort of the the fascist equivalent of what a lot of anti-fascists do with right-wing groups there is a lot of concern about that um we just you know we do the best we can we think we've done a pretty good job already clearly yeah very careful with um um, you know, who were, who were in contact with, who were working with. Um, we've had to,

you know, stop working with abusers a few times. That is a tough one. We don't expand nearly as much as we could. Uh, given all the people who want to be part of this particular group, uh, we believe more in,

you know, many strong groups and uh try to help people do that um but yeah it's a tough struggle yeah i mean that's a that's an interesting because i think maybe the a better question for me to ask is is not like how do you avoid that but how do you avoid like because the if you look back at the actual history of cointelpro right and the shit that like hoover and his his goons were saying to each other like the goal was not to infiltrate every left-wing movement the goal was to make people be so afraid of infiltration that they weren't able to effectively organize and so that

that is i guess kind of the real trick is this. Obviously, there's a degree to which you want to be on your guard. You need to be careful. It's important to be not just ethical, but responsible in your OPSEC. But you also can't let fear of that sort of thing happening just because you're kind of surrounded in a place like North Texas. You can't let that fear stop you from, from trying, right? I think, um, a big part of that is it goes back to the trust thing. Uh, you know, we don't really let people into the close folds until they've come to a few actions with us and they've, you know, proven that they're not, you know, filling the beans all

over Twitter and things like that. You know, we know who they are and know what they're about. And then we involve them a little bit more. It's all about building that trust with the people you're working with. It just goes right back to that is, you know, trust is built over time. And the longer we all know each other, the more we trust each other. And then, you know, we are able to have those conversations about welcoming more people in and, you know, setting up the processes for that. Now has, just on a logistical standpoint,

the kind of notoriety y'all have gained because of some of these actions? Has it sort of led to difficulty in terms of we're dealing with so much interest, so many people reaching out to us? How do you actually organize kind of that, like how you respond to people when shit goes viral? I know how overwhelming that can be. Yeah, that's been pretty new to us. I know how overwhelming that can be. Yeah, that's been pretty new to us.

We've been more used to being kind of your local crew that does things no one ever talks about. And having a larger profile now is a challenge because we do know, you know, attracting a lot more attention, you know, put some constraints on us. But I think that goes back to why it's important to have a lot of different groups doing a lot of different stuff. You know, you can't just have one group doing all the organizing that needs to be done in an area. It's just a bad idea. You know, if a group gets taken out for a variety of reasons you don't want everything to fall apart yeah so i guess kind of as we come to probably close to the end of this were there were there things that i didn't get into that you wanted to talk to about what y'all are doing and kind of what you want other people know particularly folks who i don't know know, we're in Louisville or in, you know, fucking Idabel, Oklahoma, and kind of want to feel, want to build, or at least help to help to protect their community in a place that there's additional challenges in doing so. Yeah. I've seen that

recurring events, no matter what it is, you know, book club distribution, if there's a place that people can find you regularly, that's a great way to have the kind of people you want to meet, you know, just, just walk up and talk to you. Um, for me, what, you know, watching your op sec and also compartmentalizing your information. Like if I don't need to know something, I don't want to know it. compartmentalizing your information. Like if I don't need to know something, I don't want to know it.

And that's a good way to stay safe while also, you know, being able to organize and take action because like you said earlier, it's the most important thing is the will to do something. If you're just, you know, the safest thing you can do is stay in your basement, but then no one will do anything.

Yeah, exactly right. Was there anything else either of y'all wanted to get into i guess i also want to plug passing on training so whatever skills you have we've taught um medical stuff how to do an oil change um how to fire gun stuff martial arts you know unarmed fighting is also Important Share knowledge with each other You know make each other more powerful In that way Yeah that is a I think a great Line to end on thank you everybody

Else and yeah You can check out actually You guys want to plug your Your socials You can follow me at BubbleBreak on Twitter. It's kind of out now, but you can follow AnarchoAirsoftist. We have training videos on there. Excellent.

And then, of course, Helmfort John Brown Gun Club on pretty much all platforms except for TikTok currently. Yeah, I never got into TikTok either. One of these days. Alright, everybody. That's the episode. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com

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