It Could Happen Here - Protest, Immigration Enforcement, and the Unhoused Community

Episode Date: July 9, 2025

James talks to Theo Henderson, host of We The Unhoused, about the impact of protests in LA on the unhoused community, and how people at the intersection of the undocumented and the unhoused community are coping with federal, state, and local crackdowns.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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It's me James today and I'm very lucky to be joined by Theo Henderson who is host of the excellent We The Unhoused Podcast how you doing today here? Thank you. You know hanging in there in this turbulentvy Unhoused podcast. How are you doing today, Theo? Thank you. You know, hanging in there in this turbulent time, but doing okay. How are you today? Yeah, I'm good. Also, also hanging in there. A lot of like being out late in the streets and then going up early to podcasts, but you know, it's okay. It's good. I am really happy to have you here today because I want to talk about the intersection of protesting, being unhoused and being undocumented.

These are all things that sometimes people can look at as unique issues, right? Like they're siloed off from one another and they're very much not. And they're very much connected by a few axes, one of which is policing and state violence. To start off with, maybe you could explain, like, in terms of the Los Angeles protests we've seen the last week, the impact on unhoused people and specifically like because of where they are, right, the heightened impact on unhoused people. That's okay. The reality of the situation is this, is that when there are protests, not just the conversation that's current now, unhoused people inadvertently get the runoff

of the aggression, the tear gas, the uncertainty of being able to find a safe space to sleep. Because when we do as protesters that are housed, protests, we encompass the entire area that usually is the staple or the landmarks of places where we should protest. For example, downtown LA where I currently live is where the city hall is.

It's where the major police stations are. It's where we have major landmarks like Hall of Justice and those places. And many unhoused people congregate and live near those places. And in the, not to say the best of times, but in the most neutral of times, they have to be on the tiptoe stance from being swept because they have to deal with the sweeps. In addition to the unrest that's going on now.

What I have found is that because I live near an SRO, that sleeping has become a difficulty because the constant helicopters that are swooping through all night and the constant ambulances or the sirens that are going on and the distance and in front of you near where you reside. Most recently the projectile shooting of rubber bullets or maybe real bullets or whatever, or the chants and things of that, that at all cacophony of noise creates an unstable environment

where in the best of times where people requires eight hours sleep, and house people may get three to maybe four hours if that. But given that, what's going on in their peak times where they're trying to sleep, they did not. A lot of them during the next day looked very sleep-worn. They looked very exhausted. And it tells because they don't have a place

where they can just leave. They can't just jump to a hotel. It's just not reality. Yeah, I definitely noticed that. The noise, obviously, I work with audio, so I'm always thinking about noise. And for instance, I was going around with my podcast recorder here, right, and like constantly having to adjust the levels down because the background noise was so, like you said, there's always helicopters,

there's people chanting, the cops are occasionally just driving a high speed with sirens on. It was very noisy. I was thinking about the people who are living there and how hard it must be to get some rest and how like, I was speaking to one guy who was living down there, probably about noon, just walking from Union Station to downtown. And he was saying how like he lives with anxiety. So he didn't want to be present in the protest, but he was supportive of his unhoused community members. But I can imagine, you know, the anxiety doesn't get me better for him if he's not sleeping, right? They get compounds.

Yes, and not to mention the frailties of life, maybe having disabilities or maybe having other health challenges that preclude being able to have a neutral, a stationary place and you just can't get up and go at a moment's notice. You have to require planning or, you know, or then you can get swept up into the, you know, the matrix of the protesters and get swept along with how they're treating them. So it's not an easy place to navigate and it's not a place that's on house people. That's just one more obstacle to or hurdle to overcome and try to just stay above the fray. Yeah. Yeah. And you kind of obviously just leave your stuff and risk losing all of it. Absolutely. So one thing that I have observed extensively is that in the undocumented community,

a lot of people end up unhoused, right? Is that something you've noticed in your time out on the streets and in SRO housing? Are there a lot of undocumented people? Is this something that's common? Yes. There is a percentage of undocumented people. Statistics vary because of the volatility of trying to record someone that's undocumented. But many of them are employed as day laborers or low end wage workers that

are working in mom and pop restaurants or creative kind of entrepreneur type of pursuits in order to survive. One of the things that has been becoming much more in the floor recently, which why I say the intersections are so important to understand and the philosophy and the ideology of it is that many people that are against a lot of the undocumented, violence and things of that nature are not necessarily as vocal as about the hostility that unhoused people go through or you don't see them on the front line protesting as deeply as what's going on today.

Because when you see sweeps, you don't see many of the protesters out there fighting cops and things, they're speaking out against it. You don't see them making chants or really making the situation much more intense and changing. What you do see is polite conversation

or politicians curving the conversation to shape it in the way that the unhoused person is the bad guy. They're affecting business. They're not going to the bathroom all over the place. They are not productive citizens and should be treated thusly as violently as possibly they can. Right.

Conversely, when we don't understand that when we have the undocumented community that's been targeted, like in San Diego, most recently here in near Whittier, targeting undocumented, unhoused people, going to sweeps now and looking for undocumented people, how that plays a part, too. And we need the same intensity. We need the same attention and understanding housing is one of the conversations that we need to have. Compassionate, dignified housing is the conversation we need to have. And these punitive measures doesn't work with undocumented people that are housed or maybe in a position or financial position a little bit more stabler than a house community, undocumented people.

But the end result is still the same, violence. Right. Yeah, definitely. And like you said, there's been several instances now that people who are unhoused, or we actually don't know, I suppose, what we know is that immigration authorities have attempted to raid shelters for unhoused people, right? Exactly. I think people sometimes don't join the dots on these things, right? Because they don't have either they don't have lived experience or they just haven't thought about it deeply.

But like, let's break down how damaging that is, right? Like, if people who are undocumented are afraid to go to shelters, then that means that they're not going to be able to access the resources that are there, right? Like, do you see that happening? Do you see that when they raid shelters, people thinking, I won't go there? Or like, I'm sure you see unhoused people avoiding other things if they think that's gonna mean an interaction with law enforcement, right?

Well, also too, we must break this down even further. Most unhoused people want help and services. That's even undocumented people. And the thing with is is they're not taking anything from the people that pay taxes. But the part of the conversation has been shaped in such a deleterious and negative fashion that it makes people much more hesitant to seek out those services. So add on to Trump's harmful rhetoric and seeing ICE roll up, even if let's say for example, they just roll up on there and they are denied entry,

it still sends the message that they are hunting you down. And most reasonable people that have those situations is all it takes is someone that agrees with the negative rhetoric that Trump espouses and that works in the shelter, they step aside and let them come and start sweeping undocumented people. Yeah. And unhoused people need to have the reassurance and the confidence that they will hold the line and be able to have safeguards in place so they can be safely serviced and helped

as well. And I know the conversation is starting to shift in other places like in mutual aid groups because a lot of times mutual aid groups and mutual aid services are allowing all types of all walks of life of people. And we are trying to create a safer place where they can get the services and they don't have to worry about it. But it's becoming much more difficult. And so we are creating safeguards and stop gaps in place to make it very difficult for ICE to do these illegal or these harmful type

of sweeps. Yeah, I think that's really good. Because it is a concern, right? Even if you're just a mutual aid group, like our friends at Bread Block, right? Like who feed people in San Diego. But if you put out there that you're going to be feeding people and then ICE know that people are going to gather to receive food, that's a new thing you have to worry about, right?

Like it's a new concern. There's another new concern. There are right-wing groups that are trying to infiltrate mutual aid groups, and I do need to say this, so it's very important. They're infiltrating mutual aid groups in efforts to aid ICE. And so what they're trying to do is they befriend mutual aid groups. And there is a video I saw of this guy stating that he had worked for immigrant day laborers. So he gets them, loads them all into their truck, and he states he promised them a job.

And this guy is recording them and their reactions, and they seem to be in a tranquil, very convivial kind of atmosphere. And he drives up in front of the ICE administration building and yells out for ICE to come get them and they scatter. Yeah. So the second thing that's also going on is too, that these organizations, these right MAGA groups are utilizing and trying to get personal information from mutual aid groups and to dox them to other mutual aid groups and to try to target or to harass people that are reaching out trying to help the unhoused community or immigrant community or whatever community that you service

that are dealing with undocumented immigrants, they're doing that as well. Yeah, and that harms everyone, right? Even documented folks who are unhoused who are citizens, because we lose those services. Yeah, let's take a little break and we're going to come back and talk more about this. Okay. For My Heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is the turning river road. this is the turning, River Road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life

what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse. Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor?

But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey. Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories

are set free. I'm Ebeneene and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you. On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief,

mental health struggles, and more, and found the strength to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on a street corner. He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast, it's your personal guide for turning storylines

into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Sometimes it's hard to remember, but... Going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of their life. That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it, that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened

to us. I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea Traetate. On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who lived through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's walk in. We're moving towards liberation together.

Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Perlman, and this is Rick Jervis. We were interns at the Nashville Tennessean, but the most unforgettable part? Our roommate, Reggie Payne, from Oakley, sports editor and aspiring rapper. And his stage name? Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea. Let's find Reggie. We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone. In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic

episode. His mom called 911. Police cuffed him face down. He slipped into a coma and died. I'm like thanking you, but then I see my son's not moving. No headlines, no outrage, just silence. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we are back. One of the things we've spoken about is like how undocumented folks often end up on the street, right? Something I've seen a lot here in San Diego, at least is undocumented families ending up on the street, right? And that can mean that their kids don't get access to education, right?

That it makes it so much harder for them to access services today and anyone else can access. Maybe you could explain to people, because again, I don't think that this is something that people consider, but we spoke about it right when we spoke about sweeps, that this is something that people consider. But we spoke about it right when we spoke about sweeps. Democratic governors all around the country, and mayors and other legislators and executive office people have claimed to be like in solidarity with migrants, right? They said they stand with their undocumented community. But at the same time,

they have spent the last decade demonizing the unhoused community and passing laws in the state of the case of But at the same time, they have spent the last decade demonizing the unhoused community and passing laws in the state of the case of California that make it easy to consign someone to like a mental health hold just for being unhoused, just for not being able to make rent. Can you explain like how that intersection has created a tool for oppression, which is now being wielded against undocumented people. And as you said to me before we recorded, like when we build this oppressive apparatus,

it can always be wielded against people who we don't think it should be wielded against, right? Well, that's a very deep question. It's a layered question, and I'm going to try to break a part of it like a piece of bread in order, hopefully, to get the whole meal digested. So let's start off with understanding how in order for us to be able to criminalize a human being, we must demonize them. And in order for us to demonize them, we must create a narrative that is easily digestible,

but quick to point out when we are confronted with our humanity or empathy or lack thereof. So when the conversation turns to the unhoused community, for years, it's always has been unhoused people like being out there, they're drug addicted, they're mentally ill, they're criminals, they don't want help or they don't want services. And the peel back that layer of onion to explain the nuances like the services

are not equally provided, the services are not tailored to what the people need, and that conversation gets lost in the quagmire. Now, bringing up into the fore is like we have the conversation of immigration, and there has been a right-wing, steady diet of misinformation or disinformation about a migrant or undocumented people getting benefits,

living the life high on the hog, living luxuriously on a snap or food stamps and other type of benefits and hard work and people can't get it. And that is just simply not true. But it's been fostered to such a degree that like in this administration that we have now with Trump, he's creating these narratives of MS-13 is let loose across the country. They're targeting hardworking people, killing them off, and gang violence is at a all-time high, which is not true. We get statistically, we are at the most downward slope that we've had in over 20 or 30 years.

But the fact of it is sears in people's minds who doesn't take the necessary steps to break down the stereotypes and understand how that is not true and is harming them. Then we have, and to this recipe of disinformation, of the idea that some people believe that they are worthy in their immigrant background and some are unworthy. Like when I say this statement, and I always keep saying this and I've been saying this for a few years because it's an uncomfortable conversation is some people are invested in their own oppression. And when I say this, this is what I mean. Some people, like for example in the unhoused community that I had been unhoused for over

eight years, I would hear them say these kind of statements. And I, in the beginning, became uneasy. Then I was like, you know what? I have to challenge this because this person believes that they are well and good and they should be helped and these other people should not be helped because they are unworthy on house. And that sends off the dog whistle and that sends off these justification for people that don't like on house people people anyway, to utilize that

in the forefront of their explanation and reasoning in order to continue to create punitive resources and resolutions. Say for example, the San Jose Mayor, Laurie, who is now working to criminalize unhoused people and says that if you turn down services three times, you go to jail. You are susceptible to be arrested. Jesus. Or you could create, like in Tennessee, now it is a six-year felony to be unhoused and lodging out in public spaces. It's so easy to do that. People who are housed do not understand it. Like in Los Angeles, like 4118, it's the new Jim Crow. It is against the law to sit sleepers lie. We don't talk about enough about grants pass

Which has given police much more leeway and other cities has been much more in basically a frenzy on trying to create the most punitive Legislation that they possibly can against unhoused people. Yeah, So these are the end results of this. So when we start to say it, and I always say this in my show, if you can't help a person, don't harm them. I will add further what Dr. King says, there's nothing much more dangerous than sincere ignorance or willful stupidity. Yeah.

I think that's a really good way to put it. Because like there is so much, I mean, I don't know if it comes out of, like you say, ignorance or stupidity, but like so many of these things actually end up at the same spot, right? Like increased numbers of people detained, more money for private prisons, more money for police, right? That's happening. Like, it shouldn't matter to us where someone's sleeping, right? We don't want that person to go to jail. They haven't done anything wrong.

And I think it's something that like, now is maybe a good time for people to talk about that, right? And incidentally, that is not helping the situation anyway, because once they got out of jail, now they have a criminal record. And we know how we are against criminals and trying to find jobs and trying to find housing. So where are they going to go? So they're going back into the state of houselessness and the state of, I would say, non-existence, but the state of punitive consequences just for being trying to exist.

Yeah. And then if they were misdemeanor, they'll get another misdemeanor just for living on the street again, and they'll stack misdemeanors and end up with a lengthy sentence. But in the case of Tennessee, that's a felony. It's not a misdemeanor. It's a six-year prison sentence. So let's say, for example, that they find you sleeping out on the streets and they take you to jail now that you have a six-year felony.

Now as you know, people that have felonies, it's much more difficult to find jobs, to vote and things like that, to take it to even further, like trying to find housing, they're filling out housing applications and they ask, have you been charged with a felony? They have to put that there. Trying to find housing, you know, what's the odds are they're gonna get housing charged being unhoused?

So we need to look at these things and says, why is it that our major knee-jerk reaction is always going to penalize poor people? Because this is what this boils down to. They have, they have not. The idea in order to keep poor people set upon other poor people is to believe that they're deserving better treatment than other poor people that look like them. And they're okay with how they're being treated in the safe into the delusion that

they won't be affected by it. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's a good point that like this deserving, the good migrant, bad migrant, deserving poor, undeserving poor, like all that does is justifies violence against whoever is stigmatizing. And like, we should just, I guess, say pretty like, in case people aren't aware, I guess, like when we look at Robert Paxton's book, The Anatomy of Fascism,

Paxton talks about the motivating passions of fascism. One of them is this idea that there is a scapegoat group, which is to blame for decline. And yes, we can see the Trump administration doing that with migrants. We can see democratic mayors blaming unhoused people for the decline of their cities, for their failure to manage budgets, for their inability to do anything other than send a fire hose of money to the cops, right? It's completely endemic. I know in San Diego Todd Gloria loves to demonize unhoused people, right? And he has done for years.

And we're now in a state where we're closing down our libraries for more time, making it even harder for people to access services, to a place where people can access the internet. If you want to make that housing application, now you can't go to the library one more day, we can do it. It's like these two things are like different heads of the same hydro, I guess. Let me point out to like, for example, when I was on the streets as well, the library is a lifeline for many reasons. And we have a heat wave.

Many unhoused people go to the library to stay cool. When we have a snow storm, a rainstorm, many unhoused people go there. Many unhoused people, unfortunately, use it as a bird bath place because they don't want to smell bad. Despite society opinion, they don't offer enough free showers or places where unhoused people can safely shower,

get their things laundered in a way. So they have to create solutions in order to survive and sustain themselves in their lives. So the library is more than just supplying the books and reading and doing housing application. It is a lifeline in many respects where unhoused people can be able to tether on to a semblance of normalcy, if you will. Yeah, totally. Another thing that I noticed actually, as I was walking around downtown LA, it's something I noticed here in San Diego,

there were not accessible bathrooms for people. Exactly. Right? Like, and it may be other people, like, if you've been out in the streets in LA or wherever you live, you might have noticed this too, right? Like, I was very lucky, a resident of downtown let me into their house so they could use their bathroom. But like, this is a city with millions of people with billions of dollars in budget, right?

The cops had five helicopters. I refuse to believe that it's not possible for them to create a place for people to use the bathroom safely. And therein lies the conundrum is that people, they're demanding restrooms and the city says that they can't financially sustain them. Or they utilize every reason in the world to discourage, a believer is going to discourage bodily functions from unhoused people, which is ridiculous because we're still going to have to go to the restroom, no matter if we are living in a street or in a home.

That's one universal equity that's never going to change. And the thing most importantly of it is, is that I have a story that I tell about my own experience with it. During the pandemic, I had broken my leg, and I was on a walker, and everything shut down. There were no public porta-potties, there were no bathrooms, and the only way I could get to a bathroom

that at the time that was open was Starbucks. So, and Starbucks was like almost a half a mile away. So I had to hobble there and they wouldn't let me in because they were, because I was unhoused and they felt that I was going to take a bath into the bathroom. And I just needed to use the restroom. And this hurdle is another hurdle

that many unhoused people have to go through, which is why they use libraries, which is why they use public facilities. But let's say, for example, Union Station, they deliberately go and shut off, they have like five stalls, and then they shut off the other bathroom and lock that up, and they'll lock the other bathroom down,

the other part is Union Station. and they'll lock the other bathroom down the other part It's Union Station. Union Station is a busy place Why it makes no sense that this constant list punitive this ill-sided or illogical Viewpoint that's being ruled over through the city and it's it's it runs over It spills over in every way possible that makes it very clear to be poor is the most horrible thing in the world. Yeah. Everybody take another break here and then we're going to come back and finish up. From my heart podcasts and Rococo Punch, this is the turning river road. I knew I wanted to obey and submit, but I didn't fully grasp for the rest of my life what that meant. In the woods of Minnesota, a cult leader married himself to 10 girls and forced them into a secret life of abuse.

Why did I think that way? Why did I allow myself to get so sucked in by this man and thinking to the point that if I died for him, that would be the greatest honor? But in 2014, the youngest of the girls escaped and sparked an international manhunt. For all those years, you know, he was the predator and I was the prey. And then he became the prey.

Listen to The Turning River Road on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Pretty Private with Ebene, the podcast where silence is broken and stories are set free. I'm Ebene and every Tuesday, I'll be sharing all new anonymous stories that will challenge your perceptions and give you new insight on the people around you.

On Pretty Private, we'll explore the untold experiences of women of color who faced it all, childhood trauma, addiction, abuse, incarceration, grief, mental health struggles, and more, and found the shrimp to make it to the other side. My dad was shot and killed in his house. Yes, he was a drug dealer. Yes, he was a confidential informant, but he wasn't shot on the street corner.

He wasn't shot in the middle of a drug deal. He was shot in his house, unarmed. Pretty Private isn't just a podcast. It's your personal guide for turning storylines into lifelines. Every Tuesday, make sure you listen to Pretty Private from the Black Effect Podcast Network. Tune in on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. The summer of 1993 was one of the best of my life. I'm journalist Jeff Perlman, and this is Rick Jervis. We were interns at the Nashville Tennessean, but the most unforgettable part, our roommate, Reggie Payne, from Oakley, sports editor and aspiring rapper. And his stage name, Sexy Sweat. In 2020, I had a simple idea.

Let's find Reggie. We searched everywhere, but Reggie was gone. In February 2020, Reggie was having a diabetic episode. His mom called 911. Police cuffed him face down. He slipped into a coma and died. I'm like thanking you, but then I see my son's not moving. No headlines, no outrage, just silence. So we started digging and uncovered city officials bent on protecting their own. Listen to Finding Sexy Sweat on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. Sometimes it's hard to remember, but going through something like that is a traumatic experience, but it's also not the end of their life. That was my dad reminding me and so many others who need to hear it, that our trauma is not our shame to carry and that we have big, bold and beautiful lives to live after what happened to us. I'm your host and co-president of this organization, Dr. Lea Traetate. On my new podcast, The Unwanted Sorority, we wade through transformation to peel back healing and reveal what it actually looks like and sounds like in real time. Each week, I sit down with people who

live through harm, carried silence, and are now reshaping the systems that failed us. We're going to talk about the adultification of Black girls, mothering as resistance, and the tools we use for healing. The Unwanted Sorority is a safe space, not a quiet space. So let's lock in. We're moving towards liberation together. Listen to The Unwanted Sorority, new episodes every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. app, Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we are back. Theo, what I want to finish up with then, I think it's always a good thing when folks are out in the street, right? Like, I guess not always, but I don't really support people being out in the street. There are people who are out in the street and they're realizing that things are worse than they thought, right? There are a lot of people who have gone out in the street this week thinking that they had a First Amendment right to protest and being tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets and maybe

they haven't been in areas where they see unhoused people, right? Or they've been managed to sort of remain ignorant at the scale of the problem. And now they're realizing how bad things are and they want to help. How do they do that in a way that it's respectful and in a way that doesn't harm someone while trying to help them, do you think? Like, why should they start that process? Not to self-angrendize myself, but I have a podcast that I created when I lived on the street, which is called Weedian House. And in that conversation from, there's a bevy of episodes that talk about these very same issues. One, the understanding of empathy. The second thing is to be educated on the realities and the differences of unhoused community members, the nuances,

how to approach unhoused people, how to sustain a relationship with unhoused people, and how to create a mutual aid or a group of people that come in and check in on unhoused people in order for them to help shepherd them along the realities of houselessness. Many people have many skills and many groups, this one I find with mutual aid, and they're able to tap into those skills in order to get some unhoused people some services,

some help, some notice, some pressure to get places or get them placed or in hospital, whatever it is they need. The first step is to, you know, listen in on some of the episodes, hear their stories and understand their stories. I always ask unhoused people, what is the best way for us to help you? Because what would help me being unh house is very different than what a mother that's of two that's fleeing domestic abuse. There's a lot of things that I cannot foresee that she has to foresee for the safety in

her life and her children's life. And so she would have different other solutions that would not fit my solution or my way of helping me. And we must understand, houselessness is not a monolith. It is very layered. There are many reasons why people are on the streets, from political to being burned out on the system and to just trying to survive day to day.

Yeah, and it's a really good answer actually. Like it's not something you can just, as you say, it's not a monolith. It's not something that where everyone is the same. Certainly like my experience with unhoused neighbors that I have and then undocumented unhoused folks As you say, it's not a monolith. It's not something that everyone is the same. Certainly like my experience with unhoused neighbors that I have and then undocumented unhoused folks, you know, everyone has different concerns, right? Everyone has different needs, even little things.

Like I remember trying to help a family and you know, they had come to the US from Venezuela and they had different food preferences, just shit like that. If you can make someone more comfortable just by asking it, it's so much easier to do. I wonder, like you've been downtown the last few nights, like it's rough, right? It's traumatizing. Like, do you see people expressed in solidarity with unhoused people? Like, do you see, because there is a feeling of, it can be very isolating. But there can also be like, at times, I've said this before a lot, but like, I feel very taken care

of, because I see strangers feeding each other, I see strangers washing each other's eyes out. I see people just taking care of one each other, if each other in small ways, bringing water, bringing food. Do you feel like the unhoused community is being shown that same care and affection during these protests? I have not seen it in this instance. I noticed that during the George Floyd protests, there was more of an awakening about the unhoused communities because they kept inhabiting and they started to do that. I would like to believe that that has continued to spill over.

I notice sometimes when the protests of what's going on in Palestine, many Palestine protesters will walk past the mutual aid stations. Some would stop and say something, or some would just keep right on going. Again, I think it's one of the things, one of the narratives, successes of the right wing's narratives is to isolate unhoused people. Make sure that their issue is completely different and that way you can be able to continue to demonize and criminalize unhoused people with the respect of people that are waving the

Gaza flag or waving flags at Mexico. They can feel safe in the delusion that they're safe and these people are the never do wells and we are not we are We are legitimately fighting for freedom and and house people are just fighting just to get their next hit, you know So yeah, and I think until we realize all our struggles are connected like we we weren't you know This is very clearly something that neoliberalism has done Right, like it's pursued identity politics in a way that doesn't lift people up so much as it splits them apart. And it stops us seeing all our struggles are connected. Theo, is there anything else you wanted to share with people before we wrap up today?

I think we covered the long and short of it. This is just a primer on some of the insights. This is a very fluid situation. There's going to be new insights and new observations as, uh, this protest unravels and, um, and we will get to see what this administration, what next harm that they're going to do to vulnerable people. Yeah. Yeah. Um, if people want to follow your podcast or follow you elsewhere, where can they

find you? They can find me at iHeartMedia. Um, they on the podcast. I'm on iHeart, Apple, Spotify, Amazon. Anywhere you find your podcast, I'm there. Great. Thank you so much for your time, Southend and Theo. That was a great conversation. Thank you. And hopefully we'll meet again in the light of understanding. Cheers. Thank you. Cheers. Thank you.

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