It Could Happen Here - Real You Electrolysis Workers United: A Unionization Speedrun

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

Through debt traps, bouncing paychecks and firings, Real You Electrolysis Workers United members Jackie Mae and Deja discuss their union campaign and strike with Mia. Strike Fund: https://www.gofundme.com/manage/support-real-you-electrolysis-workers-unitedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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I am your host, Mia Wong. There's a concept in organizing called a hot shop, which is a shop where everything is moving really, really quickly, and people are organizing really quickly, and bad stuff is happening really quickly, and people are reacting really quickly. And today we are going to talk to maybe the hottest shop I have ever encountered. So, and to discuss the shop, I am talking to Jackie May and Deja Indigo, who are members and organizers of Real You Electrolysis Workers United. Both of you two, welcome to the show. Hi.

Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us on such short notice. You said Hot Shop and, yeah, it's been a week. Very hot week, indeed. I had heard this was going on, and it was, there's an attempt to go public. The next thing I heard was like the next day, and there was a strike. And I was like, oh, my God, this is wild.

So, yeah, not even a week ago. Yeah, it will be, I think by the time you're listening to this, it will be one week. Yeah, yeah, okay, that's fair. Yeah, I want to mention this is being recorded on Monday and May 25th. This situation is moving very quickly. there is a chance that things have changed by then. We will try to get an update in if something really major has happened.

But let's roll this back to the beginning. And I think the place I want to start is. So you all are, it's real you, electrolysis workers united. So you are electrolysis workers. I know this audience specifically of it could happen here has a significantly higher chance of the general population to know what electrolysis is. But can you explain for people who don't know or only kind of familiar what electrolysis is?

Of course. Electrolysis is the only FDA-recognized method of permanent hair removal. It is a technique that dates back a surprisingly long time where we insert a filament about the size of a hair into individual hair follicles, and with the use of electricity to generate either heat or lie, we basically kill each hair follicle at its root, and that hair, if all goes according to plan, will not come back. It is commonly used in gender affirming care, and that is one of the, if not the, specialty of real u. electrolysis.

Yeah, can you talk a bit about this in a gender affirming care context? Of course. You know, if you are a transgender person and you are undergoing medical transition, there is a variety of reasons you might want to have hair permanently removed, either in preparation for surgery, both in terms of a transfeminine or transmasculine surgical context, you will need hair permanently removed from some parts of your body that will be involved in that. You also may want to have facial hair or body hair permanently removed. again, this applies to both trans feminine, trans masculine, and people anywhere else on the transgender spectrum, because, you know, not everybody wants to have body hair.

Yeah. Or facial hair. Yeah, and this is something that, I mean, I can personally say, you can get a lot of dysphoria from body hair. It can be real bad. Oh, yeah, I can't. And not having it is such a huge difference. Yes.

And I guess a thing that I should say, so my understanding of electrolysis, I have not done electrolysis, I have a lot of friends you have. But the thing about electrolysis versus like, you know, shaving or something is that once you hit a hair follicle, it's gone. And theoretically after you're done with, you know, like a bunch of the sessions, you just don't have hair growing there. Yes. Correct. And also I should note that it is also covered by most health insurance that does cover. gender affirming care. I know we all have kind of mixed feelings about the W-path standards, but it is considered the standard of care for hair removal under the W-path. So, you know,

a significant proportion of the patients at the real U electrolytrolysis clinic are using insurance to pay for their care. Uh-huh. Yeah, which is really cool. Not all trans-health care is that expensive, but Billetrolsis is not the most cheap thing if you are paying out of pocket. And... It's really not.

Yeah, it's usually out of pocket is somewhere between $120 to $240 an hour depending on your provider. Yeah. And these are weekly sessions, usually at least an hour. Sometimes they can be less for those who have difficulty

tolerating it. Some people go for even more. like some patients may elect to get like six hours of it done. But again, this is a lot of out-of-pocket costs, especially when it generally takes anywhere from a year and a half to three years to fully clear an area. So this is why it's so important to have this covered by insurance because it really adds up quickly.

Yeah. And I think this also gets into what's important about this shop, which is that this is one of the few electrolysis places I've ever encountered where huge portions of the staff are trans. Yes. And yeah, can you talk a bit about what that's been like doing, you know, like doing this kind of gender affirming care on other trans people who normally, I could say this in a medical setting, I can count on one finger the number of trans health care.

providers. I mean, I guess if you count pharmacists, I can add like a second finger. Like my entire life that I'm extremely lucky that I've even gotten one trans health care provider who is trans. Well, it's an honor and a privilege to be able to work with other trans people for gender affirming care for our community. Yeah. Because we don't just serve the Vancouver area. also serve the PDX area. And further, we have patients that commute from hours and

hours away. That is true. Yeah. For people who don't know a little bit of geography, stuff that will become important later. So this is Vancouver, Washington, which is just like right across a river from Portland. This amazingly, the fact

that technically speaking, this river is like the state border will become important in a little bit. Yes. Yes, indeed. Yes, it will. Oh, boy. Yeah. So, I'm going to ask all of you to put a little pin in a city that is technically across a state border from another city, but is like you just drive over a bridge and you're there. Let's go talk about some strike shit.

Mm-hmm. Okay, so I guess to start, can we talk about how organizing kind of first started at Real Yola Chalcis? Yes. It first started because they hired me, Mia. They hired me. Ever since I was a little girl, I have been enchanted with the idea of a workers' union and people working together to make their conditions better. It is something that I have had to learn and practice on my own because I didn't know about the IWW. Yeah. It's a thing that I was trying to do before I moved out here.

And then this opportunity just drops into my lap. And it's queer people. And they're working on queer people. I've got goosebumps. It's not because I'm cold. And how could I, in good conscience, just like let that opportunity go? Yeah.

Yeah, Jackie May is very much the motive force behind us getting our shit together and unionizing. I remember from the time that I started, Jackie May was talking about having a goal to unionize the shop. We weren't expecting it to be on such a quick timeline, but I was really excited to have somebody else who was into doing this because I've always been a hardcore leftist and an extreme socialist, communist, I don't know, whatever label you want to put on me. Workers' rights. Like, we should own the means of production and we should be the ones receiving all of the benefits from it.

Yeah. But Jackie May has just been like ready to go. But we can also talk about like the actual start to like, okay, what did we actually start doing things to this direction, right? Do you want to take that, Jackie May? Yeah. So like light talks have been going on since I got there back in actually June of last year. it's always just been real light, real surface level is in, hey, do you support a union?

Would you like to consider being in one one day? And then I go about my day. Like, that's as far as the conversation goes, because that's all the information I need at that point. Yeah. So I knew who in the building was yes. And last month, one of our members, someone who was already in talks with us, was fired. and the circumstances around that person being fired, the vibes were off, right?

Like, the previous week there was a dirty cart that just happened to appear in her room. That would be worth the write-up to get her fired. Huh. That cart couldn't have been hers because before she started school, she moved that cart to her substitute clinician's room. Like, could not be what management said it was.

So it looks like something that was fabricated. To clarify, this union member, this coworker, was going on a leave of absence to attend a certification training program. So that is why she had a substitute clinician. taking over her equipment. I should also add that this was the first time they have ever done room inspections on site. Yeah. In fact, the only, they've only done room inspections twice, and both times resulted in a termination.

Well, that's not suspicious at all. Anyway, sorry, Jackie May, please continue. Oh, boy. No worries. It's okay. Listen, we're allowed to wrap it. trail, but we come back to, so our friend was fired, right? It's super duper suspicious. Yeah. And I saw an opportunity, and I took that opportunity to talk to people about it. And for like a few days after this, it happened, nobody knew where she was at. Nobody knew what happened. Yeah. So the narrative was entirely up to me and just going, this is what they did.

and we all know this, we all know this person, we've worked alongside this person, we all recognize her skill and how intelligent she is, she's going to go on to teach this stuff. It's true. And it made all of us scared

that one of our best could just be removed like that. Yeah. Bingo. This is my understanding, this is a pretty small shop, right? Like everyone knows everyone else. Oh, yeah.

Yes. Yeah, like maybe, maybe 15 or 16 practicing clinicians at a given time. Yeah. Thereabouts. Which, yeah, I guess makes it more scary when it's someone you know when you're close to. It's just suddenly fired. And I should note that most of us who have worked there are also patients there. So, like, a lot of these, a lot of our coworkers are not just coworkers. They're also practitioners that provide gender affirming care to,

us. So we don't just have like a superficial sense of the clinical skill of these people. We have direct experience. And that makes it just that much more devastating when it's somebody you know is extremely good at their job is just suddenly gone under very suspicious circumstances. Yeah, it's devastating. So this gets a good. to one of the truly wildest and most distressing parts of this entire story, which is, can you talk about the, I guess I would just call it, the most neutral thing I can call it is the loan? Yes, absolutely.

So remember when we kind of put a pin in the fact that Vancouver, Washington is right across the river from Portland, Oregon. So there is a big difference between how the state of Washington and how the state of Oregon regulates the practice of electrolysis. In the state of Oregon, you cannot practice electrolysis without first going through a certification program and passing a certification exam to become certified. In the state of Washington, as long as you are practicing under the authority of somebody who has been certified in another state, you can practice electrolysis without certification. In fact, the state of Washington does not currently have their own certification

framework for electrolysis. So those of us who work at Real U Electrolysis were all hired without prior certification. I think there may be one or two exceptions over the years, by and large, the overwhelming majority are people who have no prior experience performing electrolysis. So, Real EU Electrolysis does have certified electrolyists on staff who are responsible for the training of new hires. One of the conditions of employment at Real U Electrolysis is to agree to sign a promissory note wherein Real U Electrolysis will basically provide a stipend and pay for all expenses related to receiving certification from a certification

program in exchange for four years of work at Real Eul Electrolysis. Those who sign this note are not required to directly pay back any money unless they either fail to complete their schooling, fail to pass their certification, sign their position within four years or are terminated. And at that point, they are immediately liable to repay the full amount of the promissory note. So essentially, as soon as you enter schooling, and again, this is a condition of employment. Every single person who has been hired by real e Electrolysis could not start working without signing a contract, agreeing, to sign this promissory note when it comes time to be sent to school.

Yeah, and can you talk about, like, how much money is it that you have to pay back if you either get fired or leave? At least $21,000 in this case. Jesus Christ. Like, oh my God. Yeah. It's cartoonishly evil. Yeah.

I should clarify as well that most of us who are hired are not coming into this job. from a place of financial privilege. Most of us had some manner of skepticism over this contract, but because the opportunity just seemed so great and because we had not heard any history of, you know, any sort of bad faith actions from management, I think we all just kind of decided, well, I get to work with a bunch of cool trans people

on a bunch of cool trans people for decent pay and benefits. And they probably won't just, fire me once I signed this loan, like, that wouldn't be cool. And so where this really comes into play is that the union member, the coworker who was fired, as I mentioned before, was on a leave of absence to be in school. And basically, she was fired and immediately they demanded repayment in full of this loan. So not only did she lose her job over extremely spurious circumstances. She now was on the hook for $21,000, like, immediately. Like, I think the deadline they gave her is in, like, two days.

So... I want to add something to all of that. Yeah. They had her sign that loan, knowing that she had two write-ups on the books and that her next write-up within those four years would lead to termination.

They knew that. They have that on file. They admitted that to our faces. We had a group of witnesses who can attest to this because we did all confront them. That's jumping a little bit further ahead in the story.

We'll get there. Yeah, I just, I want to stay here for a second to just sort of and just walk through, how unbelievably unhinged this is, which is that, yeah, so the condition of working here is that you have to sign, like, what is effectively an indentured servitude contract. Like, it's like, okay, you have to work here for, like, four years, and if we ever decide to fire you, you can't leave, and if you ever decide to fire you, you just owe $21,000, which just on the face of it is, such an unbelievably exploitative

situation because yeah, this is a bunch of queer and trans people. Like, no, like, no fucking trans person has $21,000. Like, that's just not a thing. Like, yeah. Certainly don't of us.

Like, what are we doing here? Like, taking advantage of the trans community? Yeah. And then you have the, just as the baseline condition of just everyone

has just the doom of Damocles hanging over their head. And then also, you know, like, what you were describing were, okay, you get someone to sign the contract knowing that you can get rid of them after one more infraction, that's such an incredible incentive to, like, mistreat and fire people, because if you fire someone, you can just collect, like, try to collect, like, $21,000 from them. Financially ruin somebody, financially destroy somebody, render them homeless, even. Yeah. It's what we call a perverse incentive.

Yeah. You can just reduce someone effectively into a debt peon. And usually that kind of threat is abstract. This is how we're incentivized to work and to stay in line. If you lose your job, then you're going to drown in all of the things you need to do to survive. But no, here it's just, yeah, you're now $21,000 in debt to this company that just fired you. Yep. And again, that is due and payable immediately. Yep. That the way the contract is worded does not stipulate any sort of repayment period. Now, we have attestations from previous employees who have been fired under this contract and been released from it. So we do know that the owners of real EU electrolysis will selectively choose to release terminated employees from their contract, however they have elected not to do. that in the case of this union member, this co-worker who was fired last month. Correct. Yeah. So that also just, that also looks like retaliation. Your words. Like sort of deliberately. Your words. Yeah. You know, it doesn't, it doesn't look good. There aren't good answers as to why you would do that in this situation and not in others. The story gets more fun too. Oh yeah. Yeah, we're just getting started. Before all of this gets even more unhinged. We need to go to, I don't know, maybe a source of hingedness and security.

I mean, if that's true, I hope better things happen in your lives. But we're throwing to the products and services that support this podcast. You have the desire to help, to make a real difference? The college, the city, you offer the program Dependence and Sentental. Acquare the competences essential for accompanying and support the people confronted to the difficulties of health and dependence. Construise a career enriching to service of the communities, francophone of

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. We are back. Let's continue with this story here and get to, I guess, the next set of fireings, because this just keeps escalating. So, before we actually get to the next set of firings,

We would have our first and Deja, correct me if I'm wrong, our second meeting. You are correct. Yeah, we would have our first and second meeting before the next firing. May 2nd and May 14th. Yes. So that next firing would take place on Monday. May 18th. That was Monday.

May 18th. Yeah, so like one week ago from when this is getting recorded, which bear that in mind as the rest of the story plays out because the timeline here is so condensed that like it's like all of the shit that happens with like a bad union busting campaign condensed into the span of like three days yes we are we are speed running bad boss versus union workers story like this is like one of the fastest escalations i've ever seen before we get to this Monday let's talk about what happened at those two meetings because this is genuinely such an impressive pace of like how fast all of this got organized? Yeah, so the first meeting,

May 2nd, we basically gathered every clinician who we believed we could trust, who was not either a manager in training, or did not have direct ties to management, and also who was on site, because there were some people that we would have loved to have talked to who were off-site attending a certification program at another location. So we gathered up everyone we could that started with about eight of us and grew to 10 as the night we're on. We talked about the circumstances around the firing of that co-worker who was in school. We all talked about our options for how do we proceed. We voted unanimously to form a union and to do so under the auspices of the industrial workers of the world, thanks in part to Jackie May, having contact with them and having gotten

a bit of a lowdown on what our options looked like. Yeah. So that was the TLDR of the first meeting. Ten, ten people, that's like two-thirds of the shop, like of the total people. Yes. Yes. Of the people who were active practicing clinicians there, I think we were only missing a couple. Yep, which is really impressive. I wish we could have got them. Yeah, we, we, We definitely wish we could have gotten to everybody or had been clearer on who was actually not management. Yeah, that's also a thing that, like, management will play a lot of games with who is and isn't union eligible.

I just want to, like, stop for a second and be like, getting, like, two-thirds or more of a shop to show up to the first meeting and vote to form a union is like, that might be the fastest I've ever seen this happen. It's like, well, you did this in one. meeting? Like, it's like, speed ran the entire organizing process. Like, one meeting.

It's like unbelievable. Can we put this on Gamestone quick too? Yeah, like, I, I'm maybe. I don't know. We could submit it for a world record, a new world record category. Any percent unanimous. As they say, nobody organizes quite as well as a bad boss. That's true.

Well, it's, it's, it, you, you, you have, yeah, you have, you have the double benefit of bad boss firing people and also like, it's a bunch of queer and trans people. Which is like, yes. Ideal conditions for organizing. Yes. So that meeting, that was May 2nd, the next meeting took place on May 14th. Now, Jackie May, do you want to talk a little bit before we talk about this meeting about some of the things that happened in between? the two meetings, like certain actions by management and people who are manager adjacent. Oh, right. Right. Yeah. So our tools and laundry sterilization tech, maybe specialist. I'm not quite sure on the word for it.

Salem is married to our director of operations, Zerick Lee. That's, that's, that's, that's, that's, no boy. But wait, there's more. Oh, no. Salem actually approached at least one of our, one of our union members to ask directly if we were forming a union. Yeah, which by the way, you're not allowed to do, you're not supposed to do that. But, you know, that's, yeah, great, incredible stuff. It's a lovely gray area, because.

Because Nelam isn't management, but... Technically isn't management is simply married to management. Married to management. It's like technically, technically illegal, but like, management's really, really not supposed to be doing that. Yeah. I think it also bears clarifying at this point that Zerick Lee, Director of Operations, and effectively the HR department of really electrolysis, has absolutely heard Jackie May express positive union sentiment.

I forgot about that. This goes back to summer of 2025. There have been multiple instances where people in management have directly heard Jackie May talking about being pro-union. Granted, Jackie May has always been properly elliptical about it in the presence of management. God, it's hard. But the suspicion was clearly established long ago.

Yeah. That is true. That is true. This will be important. Oh, boy. Foreshadowing is a literary technique. So to continue, during these two weeks in between meetings, thereabouts, yes, we did have Salem, spouse of the director of operations, poking around, asking questions. Oh, boy.

Yeah. And I will say this is also a very common management tactic. Of course. And as part of why when you're organizing, you need to do the basic power mapping of figuring out who is close to the bosses and who is close to management and what ties they have. Because that dramatically affects, yeah. You two absolutely both know this. But for the listeners, yeah, it is very important to figure out who the person who's married to management and will report to them is. Yes.

So I treated as game theory. I have treated all of this like it has been a game. Yeah. Because that's how I process it. That's, that's, that's all I needed to say about that. Go ahead, Deja. Yeah. So, to the credit of every union member,

not a single person violated OPSEC on this. Nobody confessed to any union organizing activity. Yeah. That doesn't change that they, continued to be suspicious. In any case, we had our second meeting on May 14th. At that meeting, present were representatives from the IWW, as well as a representative from ILWU Local 5, because at that point, we had not been formally endorsed by a union, and we wanted to get some perspectives from whoever was available to speak to us, and those were the two shops that were available to come

talk to us. At that meeting, we again voted unanimously to continue with organizing, unionizing. We were initially going to do it under the auspices of ILWU Local 5. However, their onboarding protocols are a little bit more time-consuming and involved than the IWWs. And the following Monday, which Jackie May will be talking about in just a second, there were some circumstances that sort of forced us to go with the union

who could get us on board lickety split. Yeah. So that Monday, I want to say it was like midday. I had just finished with like my I want to say my first two people and was, I was on my way to the break room to grab a drink

and on my way out, I see my coworker fellow union member and even my housemate come out of her office flanked by Real U Electrolysis Management and the last time I saw her that day was

she had tears streaming down her face and she just goes, Jackie May, they fired me. And I responded immediately. I got I want to say five for six of us to gather outside of Director of Operation

Zarik Lee's office and we voiced our displeasure. We voiced that our coworkers should have their jobs back. We voiced that none of us feel safe because of the working conditions. None of us feel safe because of the way management goes about

handing out disciplinary actions. The inconsistency with the different things that they will or will not punish. I just see his eyes peeking up over his monitor, and he's like, well, I can't discuss what's in somebody's, you know, personnel file. And also, I can't hire them back. My hands are tied. You don't, you don't know all of the documentation on our side. So I go, okay, who else do we got to talk to? And Zarik Lee points us to president of real you electrolysis on a landry. And we go down to her office. And we go down to her office. and we say the same things.

And she says, I'm not, what is, I'm paraphrasing. I cannot make unilateral decisions. Yes. And I asked who else we would have to talk to about this. And she said that would be co-president Leah LaFaver and director of operations, Eric Lee. I turned around and right across the hallway from Ana's office is Leah in reception.

So we give them the exact same spiel of we're not happy with this. This needs to be corrected. None of us feel safe about this. And this was not simply Jackie May speaking either. Those of us present, all voiced concerns, myself included, you know, it was very clearly not the actions

of a single individual, but of a concerted group. Yes. They may trust me to speak for them, but I also know when to be quiet so that they can voice their opinions. At that point, Deja had finished with all of their appointments and said, hey, I'm done for the day. I'm going home. This isn't me giving you an official resignation. I need to go home and consider my options. And I followed suit with, I'm not giving you a resignation. You have essentially created. a family emergency for me. Yeah. And now I have to go see to that family emergency. That is important. We will come back to that interaction.

Oh, boy. Later. Yes. I will say, being one of the two presidents of the company and someone goes, don't fire our coworkers and you go, sorry, that's not, like, I can't make unilateral decisions, is the most absolutely chicken shit response I've ever seen in my entire life. Like, it's like, it's like fucking, like, it's fucking like verter von like when the rockets go up.

Who cares where they come down? That's not my department. It's like, you're the president of the company. Like, what are we doing here? Like, why do you? Like, I can't make unilateral decisions. Like, you are the president. Like, there's like, three people in management.

What are we doing here? I mean, I guess, like, I mean, the thing you're doing here. is everyone in succession is trying to be like, I actually can't do anything. It's like, yes, you can. You do run the business, but. I would also like to note that this conversation held between the group of us with Annalantry and Leah Lafavor.

Very early on in that conversation, Annalantry said this conversation is over and walked away. However, Leah did continue to have a conversation with us, and was the person that we informed that we are not resigning. Yeah. Anybody who leaves today is doing so because their schedule is clear or they are having a family emergency. Both of these things are acceptable reasons for leaving your shift,

and that has been established through ample precedent. Yeah. So that was Monday. That was Monday, May 18. Jesus Christ. That's not even all of Monday. Right. I want to point out,

or include that straight from the job site, I went home, I grabbed my other roommate who is, at the time, wasn't a part of the union

because wasn't an employee of real you electrolysis, but is on the real you electrolysis hiring list. Oh, so it's like a contractor situation? Not quiet. They will work with us in the future.

Oh. It just hasn't been fully hired. That's kind of the way they do things. They hire people well in advance of having them actually start work. Like most of us were hired like months and months and months before we started actually taking shifts. So Monday, I go home. I pick up my housemate who is incredible and has a special interest in documentation and bureaucracy. she and

Dacia are my two documenters and shout out to Vey because we wouldn't have been able to get here without you. And we went to the IWW over in Portland

and we had a meeting with them and we just walked in there with the intention of asking for help from like their solidarity network of like, hey, we have just been put into like a hardship status at this point because of what has happened. Can you help us with rent?

And I want to say that meeting was like two or three hours long. We talked about a lot of plans moving forward. And instead of just having support with rent, we came away with a plan of what we would be doing next. And Tuesday came. we had all 11 people of this union meet in the parking lot and sign our petition together. We got it photocopied.

We made digital copies. We made sure it was all safe. Our person got that stuff filed away for us, got us some very nice red folders to be able to keep all of these documentation in. And we were given, I was given a red folder labeled, management, and we planned to deliver this on Wednesday.

Tuesday was quiet. Tuesday was like quiet before the storm, quiet. Yeah. We were all braced that I was going to be fired. Yeah. Because while I wasn't swearing or rude to management, I wasn't as even-toned or level-headed as I am right now. I was also bracing to be fired because I did also do a lot of that speaking, and I was extremely emotional at the time as well.

Yeah. Absolutely. Oh, I do think there is one little tidbit that is important to mention about the employee who was fired on Mondays. Not only was this person a union member and one of the organizers, this person also had a fully like workplace sanctioned and endorsed romantic relationship with the first person who was fired. So, like, again, this is not like they were illicitly dating. It's like management had a protocol, had forms and all that for when co-workers are dating. It's in the employee handbook that they're okay with that. Yes. And so it looks.

So they're like moving through the. Yeah. That's, that's interesting. That's, oh boy. I, oh, yes. There's a thing this, an FAA guy said about. there's a story of that guy who was like flying around in a lawn chair with like balloons attached to it. Oh my God.

I know that story. Yeah. And the thing about the news calls the FAA guy and the FAA guy goes, we don't know what section of the federal aviation code is violated, but when we figure it out what prosecuted with it. And like, that has to be some kind of violation of like specifically targeting people in a relationship. Like, there's got to be something there. But I don't know. And I mean, admittedly American workplace law is a complete nightmare. But that is extremely sketchy and shitty.

And yes. Oh, we're going to get it sorted out. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah. I says, oh, boy. Jesus Christ. That feels not good.

And good Lord. Okay. So Jackie May, please. continue. I slept real good Tuesday night into Wednesday morning. Let me just say that. I slept real good. Wednesday morning, we coordinated and we went a little early, admittedly. I got a little, there was a little bit of adrenaline, and I kind of jumped the gun, just, just a hair. We were supposed to wait until 1155 to deliver our signed petition. It's okay. Yeah, we all had noon appointments and we are all so committed to our patients that none of this process

interrupted patients in treatment. All of this had been coordinated around our schedules so that people got to continue getting treatment. That is correct. There has never been a point where a patient's treatment session has been interrupted or a patient has been abandoned. I'm saying this because, there are some accusations from management to that effect, and I would like it on public record, that that is absolutely false, and that we can all attest to this. Foreshadowing.

Yeah. More foreshadowing. Yes. Sorry. Oh, boy. So Wednesday morning, I have the privilege, I have the backing of the crew to go,

serve this paperwork. We had somebody from the union kind of send out, send out a feeler text to find out when the president and co-president would be in the building. It wouldn't be until after 1230. We serve that paperwork to Director of Operations, Eric Lee.

He took that at 1148. He doesn't really give us a response. Besides, there's a lot here. I'm going to have to read it all thoroughly and get back to you. But we go about our days. I have to leave site after two of my appointments because I left my phone at a gas station, so I had to leave and come back.

It's okay, we got it, it's all good. Yay. 251, I'm back on site. I am in my own office. I have co-president Leila Favor and one other member of management present, and they are firing me. They are handing me three write-up.

Jesus Christ. Now, the earliest of those write-ups, or I should say, I guess the oldest of those write-ups are from May 4th, 2026. And it essentially is a write-up that says, Jackie, you were rude to management. Now, let's talk about why. Let's talk about why that write-up happened. You see, by that point in time, we were on the third pay period where we were all being given paper checks.

After years, yeah, years of direct deposit. Like, long history of direct deposit only. Switch to paper checks. We were given paper checks. Those checks had been bouncing. The paychecks are bouncing? Yes.

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Not just Jackie Mays either. Yeah. Jesus Christ. That is true. Like, I'm,

What I will say is, on average per pay period, like a handful of us had their checks bounce. That will come into play later. That's foreshadowing. Oh, boy. Yeah, so my check bounced once. My bank account went. Okay, that's kind of suss. My check bounced a second time. I currently don't have access to a bank account because my bank has labeled what has happened

fraudulent activity, and my bank is investigating. not me because they've now figured out that it's not me that's doing it, I can prove the checks are bouncing. Jesus Christ! But yeah, but they still locked your bank account? Yes. Because the other people's checks bounce. Jesus Christ. Yeah.

So we should note here that we all were aware that Jackie May was locked out of fair bank account and experiencing financial hardship to the point where, where we actually did have some of our union members like donating food to Jackie May Solidarity Network came through for me because that kept us fed

that kept us like we were able to have gas for that for the next to get us to the next payday essentially this this whole thing would set me back like a full pay period like I wouldn't get

the last check cashed until we got to the next pay period on Friday because we get paid every two weeks. Yeah, and this is something we've talked about on this show a lot is that like, you know, and I mean, I think most people listening to this show understand this on an intuitive level, but it's like, if your paycheck fucking bounces,

that's really fucking bad. Like, holy shit. And it's like, yeah, like, obviously that's going to cause like unbelievable, like, financial. natural distress and it fucking sucks and I'm really sorry you've been having a deal with that on top of fucking everything else because that's just yeah that that's something that can just like completely fuck your entire life that's through no fault of your own yeah it's literally your boss is fucking up uh-huh yep god i want to note that still to this day i do not have access to my bank

account as far as i know Jesus Christ the last week has been really crazy I haven't been able to get out to like a great or anything to get something new set up. So that's just in the in the background like you're not even getting paid because the checks are bound. Yes. And Jackie May was understandably distressed over this

and expressed that frustration and that was the cause of a right up that was used to justify termination. Right? Is that, do I have that right? Jackie May? That is correct. That is the first Christ. That right up.

is from May 4th. That write-up is from May 4th. I have heard of a lot of bullshit write-ups in my time doing this job. Write-up for being rude to management because you were talking to them about the fact that your paycheck bounced. That is the worst write-up I have ever heard. That is like, like, even including ones where like, because obviously, like, people, they'll just like make up shit to do a write-up for. But, like, that's like a special level of like, oh, no, this. did kind of happen, but it's because

they fucked up and bounced your paycheck. Jesus Christ! So, Jackie Me, I believe you were recounting the write-ups that Leila favor presented to you. I'm just losing my mind.

That's so awful. So the second one is because they did a room inspection. It's really weird. They like doing room inspections when they want to remove somebody. Yeah. So there was a room inspection and they were like, your room's not clean enough.

Okay. That's your statement. The third write-up. Do you remember when I had a family emergency that they caused and I left sight because they caused a family emergency? Yeah. Uh-huh. My third and final write-up was because I left early.

And they tried to say, well, Jackie, you didn't ask for our person. permission, excuse me, Jackie May, you didn't ask for our permission to leave for the day. You just told me it was happening. And that was my full write-up. I would like to add to this, that I myself have multiple documented instances of having to leave work because of a health or mental health immersion situation. And there has never been a situation where I said, may I leave? It has always been I need to leave, and I have noted and observed this with other employees as well. None of these incidences ever culminated any write-up or any sort of disciplinary action. So this is clearly inconsistent with ample precedent for the application of disciplinary standards.

Yeah, they're just trying to find reasons to get free write-ups, which is also like, just a sign of how well y'all are, like, doing. your jobs that like, because like normally employers have like random code infractions that are always just sort of laying around that they can pick up and be like, hey, but it's like, they couldn't even like find anything. They had to just like basically fabricate complete, just like absolute nonsense. Yes. Jesus Christ. Am I recalling correctly, Jackie May, that these are the first instances of any documents. to disciplinary action against you in your tenure at real electrolysis?

Yeah, I'm a good girl. I follow the rules. And I do so very, very well. And then suddenly it's like, oh, here's three write-ups. Like, again, like the post facto write-up for the high, I am upset that my paycheck bounced. Jesus. And so I will note that even that very first write-up did take place after we were engaged in organizing activity after management had demonstrated suspicion. Yeah.

And all of these write-ups were delivered within a few hours of the delivery of our petition for voluntary recognition. Uh-huh. Which I will say looks not even just suspiciously. Like, it looks like they have just like a giant polar bear sitting there. and the polar bear is union retaliation and they've like painted a little clown face on it and gone this is a clown not retaliation from forming a union.

It's like, no, that is a polar bear. What are we doing here? Oh, God. Canadian women are looking for more. More to themselves, their businesses, their elected leaders, and the world are of them. And that's why we're thrilled to introduce the Honest Talk podcast.

I'm Jennifer Stewart. And I'm Catherine Clark. And in this podcast, we interview Canada as most inspiring women. Entrepreneurs, artists, athletes, politicians, and newsmakers, all at different stages of their journey. So if you're looking to connect, then we hope you'll join us. Listen to the Honest Talk podcast on IHartRadio or wherever you listen to your podcasts.

Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers. And guess what? We have some big news. What's the news, name? Huge news. We created our own podcast called, Hey, Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to it. We're the first people to do podcasts. Pretty, yeah, pretty wide. range of podcasts throughout there. But this one's extra special. So how do we actually come up with a name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

I think it was on a call about what we should call it. We were thinking I'm originally calling it one of the early names of our band before Jonas Brothers. This is how you guys remember it going down? Yes. I have a very different memory of this.

We were talking about a thing, a bit for the podcast, people could call in and say Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL late-night comedy guy, not quite.

Unhumor me with Robert Smigel and Friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeterside. help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter. Listen to humor me with Robert Smigel and friends on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're watching the latest season of the Real Housewives of Atlanta, you already know there's a lot to break down. Norsha accusing Kelly of sleeping with a merry man. They holding Kay Michelle back from fighting Drew. Pinky has financial issues. I like the bougie style of Housewives show. I think it looks like it's going to be interesting.

On the podcast, Reality with the King, I, Carlos King, recap the biggest moments from your favorite reality shows, including the Real Housewives franchise, the drama, the alliances, and the team everybody's talking about. As an executive producer in reality television, I'm not just watching it. I understand the game. As somebody who creates shows, I'll even say this.

At the end of the day, When people are at home, they want entertainment. To hear this and more, listen to Reality with the King on the IHard Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. So what happened next, Jackie May? Oh, gosh, what happened next? Well, you know, I had to clean out my office, so I grabbed the stuff that was important to me. I took my time. I wasn't angry.

I didn't, I really didn't speak throughout much of it, because at that point, the best thing I could do is just take my recording, not say anything. And as soon as I was out of the office, I sent a message to the union members that said, hey, I was just fired. They walked me out of the building. If we're going to do something about this, we need to do something about this now. and that was at 251 by 401 p.m. Wednesday afternoon, we had the rest of the union organize a, organize and stage a walkout in solidarity. That's really quick. I'm going to let Deja take over because I was outside.

Yeah. Yeah. So at the point that we found out Jackie May had been terminated, we called an emergency. We called an emergency vote in our secure messaging platform that we used to coordinate things, and we voted in favor of doing a walkout once we had each finished with our obligations to patients. In fact, I actually had an appointment scheduled from 315 to 345 that at that point, I elected to continue that appointment, and I did so. I provided treatment as usual, cleanup as.

as usual, chart noting as usual. Not a single person who engaged in this walkout did so without completing their scheduled treatment in that time slot. Once that appointment was finished and everything was in compliance within my room and the rooms of those who were not stuck in appointments, because we did have a couple of union members who were in longer appointments, who were not able to join the walkout immediately. Those of us who are free did walk out. And when we did this,

we spoke directly to Leah Lafavor who was sitting at the reception desk and said that we are staging a formal walkout in protest of the wrongful termination of Jackie May. And this is not a resignation. This is a legally protected action

under the National Labor Relations Act. Leah then said that anyone who walked out that door must immediately surrender their keys and was no longer welcome on the premises. Jesus Christ! Sorry, I was just, like, in terms of, like, open retaliation for union activity, like, oh boy. Yeah, we were, honestly, Mia, we were so gobsmacked at the just absurdity that she would take such a blatant action of retaliation, that our response was, are you sure, sure you want to do that.

And the answer was yes. So, initially, we did not return our keys because we wanted to confer with somebody from the IWW. So we spoke with an IWW representative who advised us that their demand for the return of the keys was a lawful demand for the return of company

property and that we should comply with that. So we did. We gathered up our keys. We sent a representative back in, return them. And at that point, we were officially on strike. We reunited with Jackie May in the parking lot. We started strategizing about how we were going to do this. IWW sent some folks our way to provide support. I took off to pick up some art supplies so that we could make signs and just general things like water and snacks. Our other union members who were currently inside treating patients finished their appointments as scheduled.

and emerged when they were no longer responsible for any patient care, also turned in their keys. At that point, we did have an IWW representative on scene who accompanied those employees back inside to return the keys and to confirm to Leila Favor directly that this is not a resignation, it cannot be construed as a resignation, that this is a protected organizing action, and that all we were doing was complying with a lawful, demand for the return of company property. We have plenty of witnesses to this, regardless of any

statement that they may choose to make to the contrary. Which also, I just want to know, this is the first I've ever gotten timestamps on like a walkout. This is the best documented one of these I've ever seen. Like, y'all are very organized. Oh yeah. Oh my God. No, no, we're not, we're not playing around. Yeah. So at that point, Jackie May, I think you can take it from here. Yeah, so real quick, I gotta go back. I forgot a very important detail about Monday after my co-worker union member and housemate was fired. In talking to Zerick Lee, I looked him in the eyes and I told him, don't do this. I said, please don't do this. Please don't call my bluff on this. Please don't make me do this. And we're here now. I jump.

jumping back to Wednesday, I had to go off-site. I was meeting with some IWW members who were, we were mainly discussing what we were going to do next in or what options we had in response to a mass firing. Yeah. We spent a couple hours at that. I came away understanding a whole bunch more as to what we're doing. I return to the shop and I think I don't remember it very well because I was all emotion and adrenaline at that point in time. What I will say is that when

Anna Landry and Leila Favor were getting in their cars to leave sight, I made sure that they heard me, that the block heard me, that a good chunk of downtown Washington could hear, could hear my anger and my passion. I don't know if you can tell in my voice right now, but I kind of went a little too hard on it, and it's why I sound like I do now. A little bit scratchy. It happens. I'm honestly surprised I can speak as well, because there's been lots of chanting and singing and yelling and...

Yeah, because we have been on the picket line pretty much since then every single day that the business is open. That is correct. Yeah, which I want to roll back for a second and just point out that like going from, yeah, we all signed our union petitions and then we delivered it the next day and then that same day everyone is on strike is astonishing. The pace of it is absolutely incredible. And then also just it says a lot about the solidarity that you all have and all of your, like, y'all's character that a, yeah, there's just. everyone doesn't walk out, goes on strike. And then B also, I think it speaks to, like, who you're fighting for here, both each other and also the fact that, like, all of you were so careful to make sure that your patients got their care is,

yeah, it's something that I think speaks. It says a lot about the kind of people all of you are, and it says a lot about the kind of people that management is, that this is what they're doing to people who both fight for each other and also care deeply about the patients and the people that they're taking care of. Yeah. Yeah, I really do. I know Jackie May and I are the ones who are kind of operating as the mouthpiece, but I absolutely need to express the deepest, most sincere appreciation for all.

of the other union members because, you know, not everybody involved in this has been as just, like, gung-ho, angry, like, screw it, let's do this. Like, this has been really difficult and nerve-wracking for a lot of them, but you know what? They have followed through and persevered, and not a single person who started this with us has switched sides or dropped out. Everybody has been so brave and so committed and showing up so fiercely. And yeah, we are also, like, our patients are still the most important thing. Like, yes, we've been picketing, but we have not been turning anybody away from crossing the picket line. We, every patient that shows up to be treated by one of the very few people who is still on-site providing care at real eul electrolysis crosses the line with our complete blessing.

and we are absolutely vocal and unequivocal about that, that we are not trying to deny anybody care. And in fact, like, we are reaching out to other electrology providers out there to, you know, try to offer some options to our patients who have chosen to forego their care out of solidarity. You know, we really, we want to get back to work and go back to giving care to our people. but management has made that impossible. Yeah, I think one of the things that comes through really clearly here is like, yeah, how willing management is to just hurt people and how dedicated all of you are to making sure

that people you're caring for get their care. And also the just astonishing amount of bravery that it takes to not only go on strike and continue to be on strike. But also to do that in a situation where getting fired potentially means that you have to fight off paying the company that was employing you that you're striking against $21,000. That is some of the worst conditions imaginable. And all of you did it anyways. And it's one of the most incredible things I've ever seen.

Thank you. Yeah. It's almost pride. It's 2026. We're making history here. This union is for trans people, buy trans people, to provide care,

to buy in large other trans and queer people. And weirdly, I have to say thank you to our two bosses because if they hadn't have made the decisions that they made, things could have been so different. It didn't have to be this way, is what I have to say. It didn't have to be this way,

but they chose this. They chose this. this and we have chosen at every time, every, every opportunity to choose each other and to choose our community and go, no, you're not going to bully one of us. We're not allowing this anymore. We are sticking together. Yeah. And it's been really incredible seeing the way that all of you have taken this opportunity and taken all of these risks to fight for each other. There's a quote that I heard about you from management about why they hired a bunch of

trans people that... I was wondering if you could tell the audience what that quote is because Jesus Christ. It's a super majority of trans people. Super rare for... Almost the entire workforce. Yeah. Yes. So, this

quote comes from President Honolentry from the 4th of July company barbecue held at their house in 2025. Oh, no. With this shit-eaten grin,

she says, yeah, if you pay a trans woman $30 an hour and you give her health insurance and a little bit of respect, she will march through a brick wall for you. Jesus Christ. Like, there's two immediate obvious angles. One, it's like,

Oh, so you, like, knew what you, like, you knew what you were doing here, right? You were deliberately hiring, you were deliberately hiring trans people because you thought, because you thought they were, they would be easier to exploit. And that's hideous. Those are your words. Yeah, I, that's, yeah, this is my, this is my analysis of this is like, that's Jesus Christ. And then B, also, this is, this is really some, like, your chickens are coming home to roost. Like, you, you, you have sewn the wind and you are.

are now reaping the whirlwind, because it is true that trans people get treated like absolute shit, and it's very nice to get a job where you're not being treated like shit. But it's also true that if you decide to fuck over a bunch of trans women, like, we will fight for each other. Like, trans people and people will fight for each other. And I think that's one of the sort of beautiful things about, you know, as much as all of this absolutely fucking sucks. But like, the fact that you were able to pull this many people.

people off the line immediately and get a strike going. You know, that has like almost all of the clinicians are on strike. It's this real refutation of what management believed about trans people, which is like, no, actually, you can't just fucking sit there and exploit us because we will organize and fight. Yeah. We'll fight for each other. We will. And I do want to stress too, like the diversity of our workforce. Like we are not all trans women. We come like a variety of back. a variety of ages, you know, like I don't know how old the oldest among us is, but I know I'm 43, and we have somebody as young as 18 on the workforce. And they're all on the picket line together. It's beautiful. It's incredible.

What is the state of things sort of right now? And what are you fighting for in the strike? And I guess how can people help? Big questions. Well, we are officially endorsed by the idea. We are now IWWW Industrial Union 610. The picket is ongoing. Our fellow union members are on the picket line right now as we are recording this. At this point, management has elected not to bargain with us. They have sent a copy and paste letter to all of us who were present for the walkout on May 20th.

Oh, God. Basically requesting a response and making some demonstrably. materially false allegations about the nature of the walkout and the conversations that were had with management. So we have a letter from the union that we are going to send from the union email address and will be endorsed by all the individual members. But other than that, that's the only contact we've had with management. So they do not seem interested in bargaining or in resolving the strike, they have not asked for demands.

Our demands are fairly simple. Having management go no contact to strike is not normal. Like, completely, literally no contact after one email. That's, like, weird by management through the strike standards. Like, usually they're at least communicating.

Like, sometimes they do this, but, like, that's fucked by management standards. So I can explain why that is. Yeah. Do you remember earlier, when Deja said that Anna Lantry had declared that this conversation was over. It's still over. It's still over.

Oh, my God. This conversation is still over. Because that's what she tells herself when she needs to feel in control. So we would assume. So I would assume that is true. I've been treating lists like game theory and that opinion is purely speculative. What's not speculative is our demands. Reinstatement of employment of all union members, including those terminated prior to May 20, 20, 26.

The expungement of all disciplinary records for all reinstated employees. Back pay for all reinstated employees. The immediate cessation to any and all collections activities related to the outstanding debts owed to real you electrolysis by, any and all union members. Voluntary recognition of Real U Electrolysis Workers United IWWIU610

and the immediate commencement of bargaining for a new labor contract wherein our right to strike shall not be curtailed. This is like one of the things that I think about a lot in terms of just how unbelievably

unreasonable management is being which is that those are such unbelievably reasonable and moderate demands. Like, I don't know. Like, when you reach the point where like paychecks are bouncing because your bosses are fucking you,

like, just the amount of reasonableness and maturity that all of you are showing and the just mix of staggering incompetence and evil that management is showing is it's really staggering and

yeah, and I guess that leads me to The other part of that, which is, yeah, how can people support y'all? Yeah, that's sort of like an ongoing thing. We're working on putting together. We don't really have, like, a web presence at the time of this recording. We do have an email address for the union that we've been directing people towards, and that is all lowercase, all one word, real union electrolysis at gmail.com. And that's, electrolysis is E-L-E-C-T-R-R-R-E-C-T-R-R. R-O-L-Y-S-I-S. Yeah, we will put the email in the description. Fantastic. When media stuff and like social media stuff gets online, we'll put that in the description too.

Yeah, right now that is the best way to reach us. I believe you could also reach out to the IW-W in Portland since that's who we're working with. They do coordinate things like strike funds and financial assistance and all that. And so we do have their resources available to our. us, and that might be the most expedient way. But, yeah, we are working as fast as we can to get other things going, like, on internet presence.

This has all happened so quickly. It's astonishing. Also, do you want people to show up to your pickets? And if so, where is that? Oh, please. We would love that. The address for that is 907 Harney Street in Vancouver, Washington, downtown Vancouver, Washington. I'll say that again, it's 907 Harney Street.

Awesome. Come out, show your support. Thank you. Yeah, and the picket does take place, like, at the mouth of the parking lot. I know there has been some confusion from some folks who wanted to come out as to where they meet us. You know, it's on, on Harney Street. Like, just listen for the music and the cheers, and you'll find us. Yeah, and I've been out to visit the picket line, and it's a really sweet time. Everyone there is great. And as always, are bringing picket lines, like, just

being on a picket line just in support is like an incredible experience. And also, like, if you can, like, bring food and water and stuff, it's always something that helps a lot. Oh, yes. Yeah.

Thank you, by the way. Yes. I would like to also add as far as support is it's not just us who needs support, it's also our patients. Yeah. So anybody who is practicing electrolysis in the, like, greater Portland, Vancouver area, who is willing to provide care to our displaced patients, please reach out to that

email address as well so that we can direct them to you. Awesome. Well, Deja and Jackie May, thank you so much for coming on the show. And, yeah, I hope we can talk to you fairly soon after you went. Thank you. Thank you for having us. Thank you for letting us tell our story. Yeah, of course. It's incredible. This is such a big help and you also are such an inspiration and such a treasure to this community. Like, I've been doing so good at not fan-girling over being on your show, but like I have a long-time listener. And so this is just like, oh my God, oh my God, I'm talking to me a while right now.

Well, I think, you know, A, I want to say, I think what you're doing is significant. more inspiring than me going on and doing a podcast. Like the fact that you're running this strike is just fucking incredible. And the fact that you're fighting for your people and fighting for your patience is a just unbelievable credit to all of you as people and two, you know, like just like two, two, two, two trans people in general. You were a credit to us all. Thank you. Also, I want to say, this is, you know, more evidence.

I've been saying on this show for a long time, but like the people who form unions, it's not some kind of just like special class of people. It's just literally, it's ordinary everyday people like you, the listener, who are the people who join these things and build these movements and fight for them. And, you know, like you too can be the person who builds, builds a union in your workplace and fights for it and wins. preach. And when we work together, when we organize together, when we fight, we can fucking win.

You can. Yeah. If we're done, I need to get out to the front line so I can get back to hollering at these people because they need hollered at. Yeah. I'm all fired up now, so. It could happen here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

For more podcasts from Coolzone Media, visit our website, Coolzonemedia.com. Or check us out on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for it could happen here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening. Hey guys, it's us. The Jonas Brothers. I'm Joe. I'm Kevin. And I'm Nick. And guess what? We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas. We invented a podcast? Well, we didn't invent it.

We just contributed to us. We're the first people to do podcasts. We get to ask other people questions because we're sick and tired of being asked questions. Well, sick and tired is a strong way to put it. But, you know, tired and sick. Tired and sick. Listen to Hey Jonas on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Another podcast from some SNL, late night comedy guy, not quite. Unhumor me with Robert Smygel and friends. Me and hilarious guests from Bob Odenkirk to David Letterman help make you funnier. This week, my guest, SNL's Mikey Day and head writer Streeter Seidel help an a cappella band with their between songs banter. Where does your group perform? We do some retirement homes. Those people are starving for banter.

to humor me with Robert Smigel and Friends on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Most people out here think that taking care of one another is important. And most people would step up for a neighbor going through a tough time. Most people around here

help out friends and family when they need it. But the funny thing is, most of us won't look for help when we need it. Talk to someone if you're struggling with mental health. Because most people out here really care. Find more information at Love Your Mind Today. That's loveyourmind today.org. Brought to you by the Huntsman Mental Health Institute and the Ad Council.

Therapy is fantastic, but once again, it does not have a monopoly on healing. That's why I create the resources and that's why I create the community because I really just want you to have more access. On the podcast, cultivating her space, Dr. Dom and Terry Lelmacks create a space where black women can show up fully and be heard. It's tough because we're suppressing our emotions and so many of us are like high achieving individuals. listen to cultivating her space on the IHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.