It Could Happen Here - Remembering Year One of The Death of Roe Part 1

Episode Date: June 22, 2023

In the run-up to the one year anniversary of the Dobbs decision that overturned Roe v Wade Mia speaks with abortion care worker and organizer Crystal about the devastating effects of Dobbs and what it's been like on the front lines of the struggle. Abortion Squad Abortion Funds Valley Abortion Group Fund Repro Worker Aid Fund Austin Women's Health Center FundSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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And things have gotten enormously worse in ways that most people are essentially attempting to ignore or hide from. There are, however, a lot of people who cannot essentially run from the absolute horror that has been unleashed in this country. And yeah, I'm going to be talking today and tomorrow with one of those people who is Crystal, who has the triple crown of abortion work, of being an abortion worker, a union organizer, and on the board of an abortion fund. Yeah. Welcome to the show, Crystal. And I'm sorry. You're sorry?

Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much, Mia. It's really nice to be here again. um thank you so much mia it's really nice to be here again um i had a lot of fun last time and it's nice to be talking to you again even though i only have really horrible yeah things to say for the most part um though there are some good things but um it's it's mostly really awful yeah and so i guess i guess that's where i want to start is it's – well, okay. I think – I'm pretty sure – so the day this is coming out, it's going to be I think two days before the anniversary of Dobbs. I wanted to I guess first just ask what it's been like emotionally before we get to the sort of like more material consequences of it, if that's all right.

like more material consequences of it, if that's all right? Yeah. So as an abortion worker, this has been an incredibly difficult year and that's, that's with the context that things were not good before last June 24th, 2022, to things were not good before then. So, you know, we were really running up against this impending decision that we knew was going to happen, and then it ended up happening, and then it was really horrible. And honestly, it's been horrible every single day since, and it just gets more horrible every single week. And that's, you know, I sound so negative saying that, I know, but I just know that I'm saying that knowing that there's so many amazing people who are doing like abortion advocacy and abortion care work and offering abortion services and practical support for abortion. And it has just been a incredibly heavy year for us. Um, we've, we've seen, we've all witnessed a lot in the last year and we're all carrying a lot and it's, it's, it's just hard. And I'm really grateful for everyone that I, I work with and that I'm in community with,

but it's, it's been traumatizing. I know that it's really easy to say, I think like, oh, this is traumatic and that's traumatic, but I don't know what other word to use to having had witnessed everything that we've witnessed in the last year and to know that there's no end in sight. It is incredibly traumatic. It's like a national trauma. We're all sharing it together. Yeah. Okay. I guess we should get into sort of what the things that you've been seeing have looked like. And I think one of the best ways to do this, I think, is by just talking about what the process is like of trying to get someone an abortion because it's gotten so much harder and so much more dangerous very rapidly.

Yeah, absolutely. Things have changed a lot in the last year because if we're starting from when things really hit the fan, June 24th, 2022, even though things were getting worse before that, because, you know, for example, there was the ban in Texas that started on September 1st and in 2021. So that, you know, things I saw a lot in my head, if I can point, like, when did I really know that we were fucked we were fucked and we were going to, we were going to see the worst outcome? Um, I would say on September 1st, 2021, but, um, we saw the initial trigger bans go into effect immediately after the Dobbs decision. Uh, so, you know, like for example,

Texas, the bans went into effect immediately. There were other States that it was a little bit more delayed, like for example, Ohio. And then there's also been a lot of back and forth because some states in which there have been bans, now those are currently paused and they're being worked through the legal system and other are new bans. There's pretty much been a new ban. It feels like pretty much every week to the point where I know that I just named a couple of states just now. And just to be cautious, I just want to say that you can go to abortionfinder.org or ineedana.com and look up your state to see if you have access in your state. It changes so frequently that you really do have to kind of rely on those reliable websites like Abortion Finder, and I Need an A to really make sure that you're up to

date. So if I mention a state, there might have been something in effect months ago, and I'm just alluding to it. So just definitely rely on those resources that exist to see what's up to date now. But yeah, things have been incredibly back and forth for a lot of states in the last year. And it's, it's just, there are holes in access. There are deserts and access that just keep widening and widening and widening the most devastating being, um, recently this, this was just, this was a really bad day, um, for, for me and a lot of my coworkers when, um, there was the vote in Florida and the Florida ban is not yet in effect, but will eventually be going into effect. And that was really like one of the last places that you could access an abortion in the Southeast.

look at a map, which I do a lot. I now have to look at a map every single day for work and look at individual state maps. I'm on Google Maps constantly. But there are places where you have no choice but to travel to get an abortion or access abortion services online if that is possible for you. And there are resources available where if you as an individual need an abortion and you keep looking and you search and you reach out to people, those resources are out there. Practical support groups exist. Funding exists. Clinics and service providers will bend over backwards to get you to your appointment and help you access these services. So there is help out there, but it's really difficult. And it takes a lot of work to access an appointment. lot of work to access an appointment. So everything's, it just, it takes longer to get to an appointment. It takes, you have to travel further. You end up paying so much more

money. Like everything is just so much more expensive than it was a year ago because now you're not just paying, you know, for the procedure cost and then maybe like a little bit of gas money to the appointment. You're having to figure out plane tickets, hotels, gas money for whatever, like really long distances. I have, I've seen patients driving 12 hours to get to an appointment. Yeah. And, and I can talk more about like what that process looks like too, but I guess I just wanted to give like a general overview of it's just getting harder to access, longer distances traveling, and more expensive. Luckily, there are people there to help, and there is support, but it requires a ton of work, a ton, a ton of work a ton a ton of work um in order to make sure that people are getting the health care

that they need yeah and and i guess okay two things one i want to i want to start the abortion fund plug like right here because you know yeah as as the cost of this increases that means you know like abortion funds need more money in order to be able to keep doing this because every dollar that they don't have is you know potentially is like not even potentially like is another person who's not gonna be able to get an abortion yeah every every dollar matters yeah and um and i know that i feel like a lot of leftists sometimes get a little tired of hearing about oh donate to your abortion but donate to an abortion fund because like, they're like, oh, this, this is not radical. But abortion funds are the only way in which abortions are happening right now because it costs like, you might have to spend like $2,000 to $3,000 on a person sometimes in order to make sure that they get

healthcare. And that's just one person. So the only reason that abortions are still happening is because one, people are putting that work in to make sure that they happen. And those people are amazing. And also people seeking healthcare are amazing. They're incredibly brave to be doing what they're doing, to be working so hard to get healthcare, to be navigating all of these obstacles. You have to be strong to do that. That's an incredibly brave thing to do. Having to fly in an airplane if you've never flown before to access healthcare that you know you need, you're being really strong and you're being amazing, but you shouldn't have to do that. It's a lot of money. Thank God that the money is

there because if the money wasn't there, then people would not be able to be helped. So I know that like, you know, oh, donate to abortion fund, donate to an abortion fund. But really, like if you want people to continue to get abortions now, not just waiting until like November in an election, then you need to make sure that the money is there for people to do that because it is expensive. Yeah. I mean, we're talking something like $2 three thousand dollars right like like can can you person listening to this could you right now spend three thousand dollars something and be fine right and the answer is probably not but and you know and there's a there are like a lot of people in this country who need abortions who are like way less well off than you are like that is a shit ton of like that that is a lot of money for me like podcaster um that is you know a crippling amount of money for a lot of people who need this

and i don't know i mean i think there's something really bleak about the way our society is structured where your freedom and your bodily autonomy are dependent on having money. But that's basically where we're at, right? Like that's the way the system works right now. Yeah, there's a part of me that like doesn't want to lean in. And like, I mean, like, you know, I'm a socialist. I don't want to be like, oh, you know, money, money, money. But like that is the only reason people are getting healthcare is because there is money available

and people are banding together to pool that money to make it available to people who need it. So I'm just like, thank God. I'm so glad because otherwise I would not be able to get people to their appointments. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when

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Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. And I can like talk out that process too. Like, you know, what does it look like now? Yeah. Yeah. Let's, yeah. Let's actually go through this. Yeah. I want to start off with like what it, what I was when I started. So I've been working in abortion care for six years now. And when I started, I was working in a call center and I would schedule appointments. So I would get a call and I'd collect information and I would book the appointment and I'd say, you know, thank you for reaching out to us for your services and we will see you at your appointment. And, you know, the calls were long because, you know, we'd have to work out financial assistance. And then also abortion care is often just like a really intimate type of healthcare to be accessing. So there's a lot of factors sometimes to discuss with the person that was accessing services. And it can be really complicated with all of those factors. So, you know, like it's always been pretty labor intensive to schedule someone sometimes.

But it was a fairly, you know, fairly short phone call for the most part, most of the time. And then you just get somebody scheduled and then you move on and you schedule someone else. And that was six years ago for me. And I'm not saying that more difficult situations didn't come up because, of course, abortion access was not good six years ago either. But the way in which it's changed is so murkied. have witnesses where it went from that to it taking weeks to work with one individual to get them to an appointment because there is no clinic within eight hours driving distance to them. And so the whole intake process and the whole just like getting the funds together, I guess I'll just walk you through it because I don't even know how else to relate. So let's say just like hypothetically, you're an individual who is living in a banned state and the closest actual brick and mortar abortion clinic to you is nine hours away, which is the situation for so many people that I talk to and that are living in

the United States. And let's say you don't have a car and you have children and you don't want everybody to know your business. So you don't want everybody in your family knowing that you need an abortion and that you're looking for that type of healthcare. So you're trying to do what you can by yourself. And you're Googling and you're looking at different resources. And what I witness a lot as a healthcare worker helping someone through this process is there's a lot of dead ends when people are trying to find someone that can provide them with those abortion services. They're looking at the clinics that are close to them and they're seeing that they're nine hours away and they can't get to them. They're looking up flight tickets and they're seeing it's

like $800 for there and back. And they can't afford that on top of the procedure cost. And let's just say hypothetically, they're early in the pregnancy and the procedure might cost maybe 400, 500, $600, which is still a lot of money. That's still a lot of money. So I don't want to pretend like that's not. But on top of that, then there's also the plane tickets, trying to find a way to the airport and all of that. And they're just reaching a lot of dead ends. Like I can't possibly go here and I can't possibly go here. And okay, like maybe I can go online and order some medication, but it might not arrive for several weeks. And what if it doesn't arrive? I mean, that's like a really scary thing to be doing, like knowing you need

healthcare and knowing that you're relying on the mail and like hoping that you get your packet and that you can trust wherever you're purchasing the medication from. And if you can't even really, like let's say that you're further along and you maybe are like 20 weeks and your options are incredibly more limited and you're paying a lot more if you don't have insurance coverage, which most people don't. So you're paying maybe up to $2,000, $3,000, $4,000 for a procedure. And you just need help. procedure and and you just need help and you need to ask for help which is already like a not a good spot to be in because you're you're accessing health care and you have no choice but to ask for help and you shouldn't have to that's really fucking hard right like i mean i think on an intellectual level i think everyone has an experience which is how hard it is to ask for help

for stuff that's like incredibly minor and then you're doing this for a really intimate like healthcare decision. Yeah. Like super personal, like your decision might be based on like a bunch of factors that are just like really personal for you and you wish you didn't have to tell people or you wish you didn't have to talk to so many people about an appointment. Because, you know, for most healthcare appointments, even though healthcare in general is not easy to access, you just call and you schedule the appointment and maybe you have to pay a copay and that's annoying. And then maybe the appointment is four months out and that's awful too.

But, you know, this just makes everything worse for the individual. So let's just say like, you know, they keep trying and they keep trying and they keep looking and, you know, let's say they get to me and I'm somebody who, um, I do, I do scheduling now for, for patients who need to travel and I, um, I help them get financial assistance for the cost of travel and for their appointment. So a lot of times when I get in touch with someone, they've already encountered so many dead ends. And when I am not the dead end, they're filled with so much relief that a lot of times, this happens almost every day now, someone will get in touch with me and they'll just start crying when I tell them that I can help them. And that is not

a good feeling because I feel like maybe in like other types of work or maybe even like before, like maybe years ago, like when somebody was like grateful, it might feel good. Like, oh, I'm so glad I can help them. But when someone who is like a caregiver, a worker, somebody who needs healthcare and they're scared and they're crying out of relief, it does not feel good. It makes me feel really horrible because they have already been robbed of their dignity by the time that I talk to them. And I hate that. It's just, it's disgusting that they've already been put in the situation that is dehumanizing. And, and I just, it doesn't feel good when they cry in relief. It just does not feel good. So just continuing this, the tale of, you know, this patient accessing an appointment. So, so let's say, you know,

they, they can get an appointment in a clinic. It's not in their state because it's not legal to provide an abortion in their state. So they have to travel two states away and get to the clinic. So the flight tickets are $800 and the cost of the appointment is $400. So already that's $1,200, which luckily I am so grateful and glad that I have the ability to arrange financial assistance for that. And I can work with individuals to do that. Thank the Lord. Honestly, I shouldn't, no, not thank the Lord. Thank these people. Thank these people so much. I'm just so glad they exist and they're there and that they're such hard workers. Oh, my God.

But, yeah, so that's $1,200 that we can look into covering. So that way the person pays whatever they are capable of paying, even if that's nothing. Because, you know, some of these people, like, they're living paycheck to paycheck because they're taking care of their children. And, like, their family is coming first. That is what is happening is they are taking care of their family and they are being a good caregiver. So, you know, the money is going to food on the table. So that's like $1,200. But then there's a couple other things you have to factor in is, like, does this person need a hotel?

Because that can be an additional, what, like $100, $200, depending like, does this person need a hotel? Because that can be an additional what, like 100, 200, depending. And does this person have a car? Can they pay for the gas money? Especially if they're driving. Because like, let's say they could get to an airport, but the airport is still two hours away. You still need gas money. You still have to park at the airport. You got to pay for airport parking. And then you get on the airplane and you fly over to the state where your appointment is. You get off the airplane and then there is surge pricing for Lyft and Uber. And let's say the Uber, it could be anywhere from like maybe $50 or $100 depending on what's going on. And that is just more money that needs to be spent. The fact that they're going to get by fucking Uber surge pricing is so monstrous. Yeah.

And like airports in general, like getting out of an airport using a ride share is pretty terrible. But yeah, you got to pay that surge pricing. And then you get to the clinic and then you have your services, which is really like when you're accessing healthcare, I mean, we all access healthcare. We're all human beings who need healthcare. Like you really want to be able to focus on that appointment and the care you're getting. But at this point, they've already traveled.

Like they've been on a journey. So they arrive to the appointment and get the healthcare that really should have been what they should have been able to focus on. And then they got to go back. So then they got to do the whole thing. They got to go through airport security, get back, get the Uber from the airport. And then let's say they have a two-hour flight back. And that's, I mean, that could be done in all than one day, but sometimes it can't be. Like sometimes it's just not possible to do all that in one day. And that's like another obstacle that I come across is that a lot, I would say most of the patients I talk to are already parents.

So they're like, I have to be back that evening because I don't have childcare overnight. Like I don't have overnight childcare. So then I'm like trying to get them back the same evening um because because they're a parent and then like you imagine just like you know just like imagine your own parents like your own like mom just like zipping away for one day to go get like a really simple health care procedure and then they have to like rush back and you're already in bed and and, and it's just so stressful. It's so stressful for the, for the parent, for any, any family members that might be like, kind of like sharing this whole stressful experience with them, any friends, any loved ones. And it's just.

You have to find time off too. Oh yeah. I didn't even get into that. Yeah. So I don't know. Like I just, I said a lot of numbers just now. So I know I started off with 1200 and then I tacked on a bunch of extra things. Oh, and I didn't mention that you're going to have to eat that day. You know, like you're, you're in another state and you have to get food. So like it easily for one person starts racking up until like over 2000. And, um, that's why abortion funds are really important really important. But that's also, that's a lot.

That's a lot. And that's a lot on top of an intimate healthcare appointment. And just outlining how much someone has to do to get to an appointment. There's even a couple other factors to consider too, because a lot of these people who are having to fly or drive these long distances to their appointment, they would have never been in that situation otherwise. So these are individuals who have never flown on a plane before maybe, because they've just never been in a situation in which they needed to fly on a plane. They've always been able to drive to like vacations and everything. Like, you know, like, oh, family vacation, you drive maybe like four hours and, you know, you have fun and you just don't want to go on a plane. It makes you

nervous. And that's a lot of people live like that. So all of a sudden these people have no choice. Like, oh, you have to get on a plane and otherwise you're gonna have to drive 12, 13 hours. So they get on a plane and they're scared because they've never done it before because they're already stressed out that they're going to a doctor's appointment. They're already stressed out that they're relying on basically strangers

to get them there, which is, that's like a whole other topic is like you have to rely on strangers and that's, you know, people shouldn't have to do that. And then also you have to navigate an airport. So a lot of my job has become looking at maps. I'm looking at a map. How far away is this from a clinic?

How far away are they from an airport? Can they go here? Can they go here? But I'm also on the phone with people kind of describing how airports work. Here's what airport security looks like. People are afraid of TSA, and I don't blame them. I fucking hate TSA. They're always assholes.

Fuck them. They make everything worse. You got to go through TSA and you got to know how to get your tickets and you got to know how to get to a terminal. A lot of people don't, like if you've never flown before, they might not know that they're supposed to get on

that little train thingy. You know what I'm talking about. Like you get on a little train, you go to your terminal and like a lot of people might not know that they're supposed to get on that little train thingy. You know what I'm talking about. You get on a little train, you go to your terminal, and a lot of people don't know that. All of a sudden, they have to find out really fast, and I have to explain it. That's part of their abortion care. Part of people's abortion care is now talking them through an airport. That sucks. That's become the daily experience. That's become the daily experience. Whereas like, yeah, six years ago, these used to be like, okay, I'm going to book your appointment. You're going to come in. Your appointment's going to be maybe like, I don't know, five hours. And then you

leave and you drive home and maybe you're only driving like 30 minutes, maybe an hour, maybe two hours. And now we're having people who, you know, flights or it's a 12 hour drive, two hour flight there, two hour flight back, the flight lands at like midnight, you know, like, and then your kids are in bed. And it's so much. And you can see why people give up. And people are giving up. In fact, the numbers are hard to hear. I know that there was a study that showed that in the first six months after the Dobbs decision, 36,000 people who wanted an abortion couldn't get one. And that is only in

the first six months. So I'm sure that that number is much... I'm dreading seeing new numbers, but I'm sure the number is much higher now. So when you're faced with all of this, So when you're faced with all of this, people do give up because it is too much, which was the whole point of all of the bans and everything that's happened. The point was to make people give up. And I think that a lot of leftists maybe don't want to acknowledge that people will keep trying and they'll find those resources and they will get to the appointments because help is available. But not everyone finds the help that is out there and not everyone can make it work. There's a lot of reasons why people can't do this ridiculous thing I just described. And then as abortion care workers, we see them give up. And I think that's kind of been the biggest, one of the biggest changes for me is just how often I see people give up and just having to witness that because it's like, well, what does it mean when someone gives up? What does it mean when someone stops trying to get the healthcare that they're looking for?

They're changing their entire plans. Like, you know, because like everyone, not everyone, but a lot of people have like ideas of what they're looking for. They're changing their entire plans. Like, you know, cause like everyone, not everyone, but a lot of people have like ideas of what they're doing with their life. And they're like, I want to have this many kids. I want to have them at these times. And I want to be with this person, or I don't want to be with anyone. And, and I want to work this job and go to this school or whatever, you know school or whatever. You're making plans. And then all of a sudden, because of this situation, you have to change your plans. And there's even worse things happening than that. But I think that that's bad enough is that you can't get what you need and you just have to just change your life and accept defeat and take a path that you did not want to

take. And it's fucking sad. It's more than sad. Sad is an understatement. I don't know what word it is. It's horrible because this has been taken from them. The choice has been taken from them completely. And that is going to have effects that we are going to see for decades to come. And that's kind of hard to wrap your brain around. What does it mean for tens and tens of thousands of people to not have had the healthcare that they need? It means that we're going to see the negative health effects for years to come because that is a lot of people. That's a lot of people and that's going to impact people in really long-term ways for a really long time.

And knowing that is really, I don't know, words are kind of failing me. It's beyond traumatic, beyond, yeah. I'm sure there will be studies in years from now, I'm sure. But like, it's been a year. And I can say like, it's gonna, the data is gonna be really bad. The data is gonna be really bad, based on everything that I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic

happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, I'm Danny Trejo.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Suffering is not something you can quantify. you know the amount of human suffering that's been unleashed by this is yeah like one of the worst crimes that's happened in a century full of like unspeakable crimes and the suffering looks different for each individual you know like it's like because it's just the whole the whole whole, it's autonomy. You're losing control over your life and your body and your family and your, and there's just so many things. And it looks different for each person. So for some people, it's like, you have to just fucking change everything that you're fucking doing. You can't control your life or your body. You can't control your life or your body.

And then for other people, it can be even worse than that where you're risking death because pregnancy is incredibly dangerous. So there are people who are putting themselves in really dangerous situations with their pregnancies and they're being denied the care that they need. So you see people who are being forced to risk their life because they can't get the care they need. So you see people who are being forced to risk their life because they can't get the care they need. And people are losing their body parts and their fertility. Because recently, I read a story. And then there's these horror stories every day, which I read them because I want to know everything that's happening. But I also am so resentful that every day there's a new horror story about these services. But recently, there was somebody who wasn't able to get timely abortion care, had to continue

a pregnancy, and ended up losing her uterus, even though she wanted to have more kids. She wanted to continue having children. So all of a sudden, because she couldn't get an abortion, she couldn't continue to expand her family in the way that she wanted. Yeah, I mean, she's being sterilized effectively. Yeah, exactly. By the state, which is – Yeah.

Yeah. So the suffering is so different for each individual and so intimate to them. And it's going all the way up to just like state-mand mandated just like body horror basically and and it's deadly it's really deadly which is hard to talk about yeah i mean you know just having said that um should we talk a little bit about gabriella gonzalez and yeah how you know the other thing about abortion care is that it's not just that pregnancy is dangerous physically it's that pregnancy is really dangerous socially because you know we live in an incredibly patriarchal society and that means patriarchal violence is a real threat yeah and this is always this

unfortunately one component of abortion care is it often involves interpersonal violence or a lot of people say domestic violence. And it's because a lot of partners will try to control someone through pregnancy. And it's a tactic of abuse that does come up. abuse that does come up. And if somebody does get pregnant while they are in that kind of relationship, that's a big thing. A lot of times, it makes sense that if they're trying to get away from someone that they don't want to continue the pregnancy. And then that might be something that the partner might be intimately involved in where either they know about it or they don't know about it and if they know about it they could be pressuring the individual it's unfortunately something that is often a component of this

health care is that that is a factor that the person seeking health care is dealing with so in terms of um and all of this is i I'm like, this is all very, like really triggering stuff too. And so, you know, trigger warning, but with Gabriella Gonzalez, that was something that happened. I think it was in, it was, it was in May. I remember it was in mid May because the news hit, it hit hard for us, for like a lot of abortion care workers and practical support advocates, because it's the thing that we try so hard to keep our patients safe when they disclose things to us. The patient safety is the number one priority. And the fact of the matter is these bans make it harder for people to access the services safely. So in the case of Gabriela Gonzalez, I just want to say her name. She was a mother of three children. She was 26 years old when she was murdered by her ex-partner after she accessed an abortion

in another state. So she was located in Texas. after she accessed an abortion in another state. So she was located in Texas. She had to travel to Colorado to get an abortion. And when she came back, unfortunately, she was murdered by her ex. And just like a couple of things on that is, it just if you are trying to be discreet and you're trying to take care of your health care, it's hard to keep things private if you could access those services at home or near where you are. It's easier to keep that information private. It's easier to handle that situation in a timely way. So I feel like – I mean, our country is failing, everyone pretty much. But I'm torn apart and devastated.

And this news hit so hard to learn about Gabriela Gonzalez and what happened to her. Knowing that we try so hard to keep our patients safe and being careful about communications, being careful about what we hand patients even. There are some times it's like, well, I cannot give you any handouts, so here's how we're going to provide you the information. Because people can't even have that information on their phone or or in their purse on their person and trying so hard and then just having like the state defy you in every way and and it's just really it's trapping people in the in these violent situations that you say yeah i mean these situations have always existed but ever since these abortion bans went into effect, it has made them even more dangerous. Yeah. And I think in terms of just sort of getting at what the people who support this stuff believe, they know about this.

This is what they want to happen, right? This is what it actually means to have an ideology that's based on patriarchal control is this shit. Yep. It's this. Like, this violence, like, this kind of coercion is what they want. These are also, you know, like, again, there's a reason these are also people who want to end at fall divorce, right? Like, their entire ideology is based on men being able to inflict violence. Yep.

And, you know, and these are, what, pro-life people. And, you know, and these are pro-life people. And, you know, Gabrielle Gonzalez was a mother of three children. She was a mother and her children needed her. And now she's gone. And I feel like the abortion bans and the demolition of abortion services in the United States has led to this situation and will continue to lead to more situations like this. And they're all devastating. And I hate it.

It's fucking awful. It's so fucking bad. And I know that. I'm like, where do I go from there? Yeah. It's the worst shit in the world. Yeah. And I know that. I'm like, where do I go from there? Yeah. After saying like- It's the worst shit in the world. And then, yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I guess the thing I can say after that, right, is like, if you want to live in a world that is not just utterly controlled by the most evil people who've ever lived by, you know, that is defined by enormous engines of human suffering. Like these people, their politics, the logistical support networks, their parties, like the,

the entire political apparatus that is doing, it needs to be completely destroyed. Like, like raised to the ground in a way that it like literally can never recover and that is the thing that is possible right it is it is possible to completely destroy political movements it is possible to just drive them so far underground that people forget they even existed and you know and then that has happened to movements before that were as powerful as this one. So it can be done.

It requires a level of political will that politicians don't give a shit about because this is not something that affects them. And speaking of politicians not giving a shit, going back to the initial reflection on it's been a year since Roe v. Wade was overturned and the Dobbs decision. And what has happened? What have the politicians done to alleviate all of the suffering that I've been talking about? And it's very little. you know, I've been talking about, and it's very little. Like the biggest win that we've had is Mifepristone not being banned, which is horrible because like, oh, and then that was that whole thing, that whole separate, that's like a whole other thing. But that is such a bleak win, especially since it's not even gone. And we're going to see this issue come back with Mifepristone and and

that's another thing too because if that does happen like misoprostol is amazing and misoprostol is very effective um and taking misoprostol only for abortion is effective but it's also more symptomatic and given just like you know like we were talking about people, like just people being exposed to violence, people having to act, doing just like moving mountains and having to cross mountains and go on a journey to get these abortion services in literally what can be often a 30 minute to an hour appointment. If you're, you know, lucky, it's not always like that. But anyways, like these services aren't complicated. Like, you know, like it's not like a, like these, you know, we have the technology, like, like to get medication, you just go and you get the medication and they tell you how to take the medication and they make sure they can

prescribe you the medication. You get it. It's not like that can be like a 15 minute appointment. And then if you're, um, if you're like under a certain gestational age, a first trimester abortion, it can be only like five minutes. Like this, this is not complicated healthcare. This is very simple healthcare. And you're adding all these extra factors in. So when you're, when you have to prescribe someone a medication that is more symptomatic, which is just adding – it's just one more complication. And the attack on abortion services has always been death by a thousand cuts. And this is just like one more cut that we really, really do not need.

But that was a win. And it's like that is such a shitty win. And then you have some states that are becoming like sanctuary states where they're like you know where i hate i hate saying that word i'm so sorry i didn't mean to say sanctuary states because it's really not that but yeah they're saying like we're a safe place for you to get an abortion and we're never we're always going to have abortion services and it's like what does that mean if you have so many patients traveling from other states that you're booking five weeks out well they won't and it's like they won't fucking fund it right like this is the thing that like i i've just like

unbelievably fucking angry about right is it like you know dobbs in in in in terms of just the raw sort of politics of it right in terms of just pure getting votes this is the best thing that's ever fucking happened in the democratic party right they have been reaping the fucking electoral rewards for this and what have they been fucking doing for 50 goddamn years like nothing right and this is something that like okay you know if you look at the way the right has been like fucking dealing with this right it's at every single step right you know they they're constantly involved in lawsuits or they they're they're constantly pushing the boundaries and doing literally whatever they can within the within and without the bounds of the law right i mean we've talked

about the sort of vigilante campaigns right but like you know like doing things like like like you know i mean the one of the classic ones is requiring like facilities that do abortions to have like a specific length of hallway or like like with a trap loss different yeah like they've been doing all this fucking legal bullshit to make it as hard as humanly possible right is there a democrat version of this no no they fucking they came to the height of it like even even the states that have the shit it's not like they're not fucking funding it right it's like they're not fucking paying like they they're shit that they could be doing and they just they don't care because this is this is a you know this is a very nice thing they can trot out in their fucking fundraising meetings and they can get people to

vote for them. But they're not going to wage this kind of campaign that the Republicans have been – like they're not going to wage a pro-axis campaign on the scale at all, right? But they're not going to wage one on the scale the Republicans have been doing to like make sure that you fucking can't get these services. Yeah, it's like these blue states, they're not safe. And there's like the ridiculous – there was like stockpiling misoprostol or whatever some states were saying they were doing. And it's like if you're really looking out for people and you're really trying to defy these awful human rights violating laws, then send the medication to banned states. Yeah. Yeah. I mean like I talked about this last time when I was on talking to you where, okay, you can't get these healthcare services near you. So you go somewhere else and the people locally can't get those services. So then they have to travel farther.

And there's like this ripple effect to the point where like, I'm sure that like blue states are seeing more appointments than ever. And I know for a fact, like here in Pennsylvania, here in Pittsburgh, where literally we're seeing, we're always seeing people in Ohio just because they, even though abortion is legal in Ohio, it's just, there's a lot of restrictions there. So

it's a little tricky. But then there's like West Virginia and like Kentucky and Tennessee, and you're seeing so many more patients. So you're booking out further. And it's like, if you're, let's say you're eight weeks and you find out so if you're eight weeks pregnant then you're um you've only missed your period like for like a couple weeks it's really like you know you you you can find out you're eight weeks right you're like you just found out really um and you call somewhere near you to get an appointment but the appointment is five weeks away so all of a sudden you go from eight weeks to 13 weeks. It's like, what the heck? Yeah, you're on a clock.

Yeah, it's totally different options. And that's happening in blue states. And it's like, so this is impacting literally everyone, but no politicians or even big talking heads are really doing anything about it because it just gets worse. There's just more bands constantly. And I want to talk a bit about the sanctuary bullshit too,

because this is like the third fucking issue that we've seen politicians be like, Oh, we're a sanctuary state. It's like, yeah. Okay. Like I,

I remember when I was doing fucking anti ice raid stuff, right. Do you know, do you, do you know how many, how much time we fucking spent trying to stop raids, ice raids in saying in quote-unquote sanctuary states like it's bullshit it's always been fucking bullshit they don't mean it and you know like all of the fucking like they this is the sanctuary state thing is just like a thing that they fucking say

so that they can you know just sort of like like rally their base support and like build towards whatever presidential run they're going to do in 2032 or whatever. And it doesn't – it's not helping people. And it's just not going to. Yeah, it's not. It's not a strategy that works. And I mean it's just entirely selfish. It's rage-inducing because it's – how do I feel as an abortion worker? It's been a year since Roe v. Wade was overturned,

and I have to witness all of this needless suffering and trauma and people's safety being compromised and people being hurt and people giving up. And then these politicians not doing anything i am so i'm full of so much anger that it's it's sometimes numbing like sometimes i'm just so angry that i kind of feel nothing like it kind of like it's like it it's so far down the spectrum that i like just it just turns into like a non-emotion basically, like so much anger that it's blinding and feels like nothing. Um, and I don't even know where, I don't even know what to do with it other than focus into just like continuing to provide

healthcare where it's like, Oh, I'm so angry and I'm so mad and I feel so terrible. I am going to make sure that this person gets an abortion. Like that's I can do. I can get people to an appointment. And I want to do more. I want to go and just raise everything to the ground, like you were saying. But I can't be the only one doing that. We all have to do that. Yeah. We all have to raise everything to the ground.

We all have to raise everything to the ground because this is so untenable and so unfair and is creating such a huge ripple of suffering that we're all going to be experiencing for decades. And I'm really bitter about it. I'm super angry and super bitter. And it's not going to get better too it's it's not um i have to be honest about that because if i'm not then i'm not going to be prepared but we're going to continue to see these bands they're not going away right now um the mythifepristone issue is going to come back and we're going to keep seeing it and it's spreading. And I know that that's like a whole other topic too, but the ripple effects are really immense. And every time someone is hurt, well, every individual, like when I heard that 36, that was a number that really hurt. Yeah.

Because I know how many patients I've seen in the last year and it's less than 36,000. So every time I help someone, I'm so happy. And I'm like, yes, I helped this person get healthcare. I'm really happy. And then I look at that 36,000 number and I'm like, oh my God, there are so many other people who were not able to find help. And like I said, I don't like, like I said, like, I don't even feel good when someone is like thanking me. And they, oftentimes people will say,

people will say to me, I hear this almost every day. You have no idea how grateful and thankful I am. And it's like, I really don't, I don't know. Cause I'm not in your shoes and I feel, and I'm sorry that I, that you had to come to me like this. Like, I'm sorry. I feel, I'm so sad in like such a deep, visceral way that when someone is saying like, you'll never know how thankful I am that they just weren't able to go to their local doctor's office or even have the medication mailed to them and have it like come in like two days and just take it and follow up with the doctor on the phone if needed, you know, something super simple, which would make sense.

And I am just, I'm, I just, I, I hate it. I fucking hate it. I just keep coming to that. I'm like, this is so bad. This is so bad. I want to keep doing it, but it sucks. this next episode and also how the things that we're seeing in abortion care have been spiraling out and spreading to other sectors of the healthcare system, including trans healthcare. But in the meantime, we have an enormous number of links to different abortion funds and various abortion worker groups who also need your support. So yeah, please support them. And yeah, so that's going to be the next episode is because again, like this, this isn't a, you know, once, once you have like an evil,

like this has been unleashed into the world, it doesn't just stay in one place, right. It keeps moving. It keeps going after different people. It keeps expanding and it keeps just rippling through the world. And so when we're talking about that, we're going to be talking about like,

you know, I mean the fights that abortion workers have been having. And then we're going to're gonna we're gonna give you a brief bit of hope at the end of like what you can do because like fuck it the world does not need to be like this like this is not you know i mean there's there's the old david graver lines like that is the ultimate hidden truth of this world is that it is something that we make and could just as easily make differently. Let's do it. Let's make it different. Yeah, let's fucking do that. Let's not make a fucking immense engine of human suffering.

Yeah, before we go for this episode, do you have stuff that you want to plug in terms of like abortion fund links, in terms of resources? Yeah, absolutely. So I know that I was talking about just abortion funds in general. So find your local abortion fund. Go to abortionfunds. elsewhere that are doing the good work, then I would recommend the Texas Equal Access Fund, the T-Fund in Texas. They are being so amazing and I love them. And also, I know that the Chicago Abortion Fund is a huge fund,

but I just, I love them so much. So I just, they can't have enough money. Just go donate to, they're so amazing. So Texas Equal Access Fund, the T-Fund, the Chicago Abortion Fund, they're doing such important work. So, you know, if you, if you're looking for someone outside of your local abortion fund, which you should be supporting, then also check them out as well. Yeah. So Crystal, thank you so much for joining us. We will be back tomorrow. We will be talking more about this.

We'll be talking about what you can do. And yeah, until then, donate to your abortion fund and yeah, make the lives of the people who did this fucking miserable and destroy their political power. Yes. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. Yes. at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement

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