It Could Happen Here - Rohingya History and Cuture with Aung Kyaw Moe

Episode Date: February 3, 2023

James sits down with Aung Kyaw Moe a Rohingya, human rights advocate, and adviser to Myanmar’s NUG.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German,

where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking musica, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians,

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died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. the Rohingya genocide. We're not going to cover that in depth, but we will give a little bit of an overview. And I'm talking to Ong Kior Mo, who is Rohingya himself and who works with the National Unity Government in advising them about Rohingya people's human rights. I think the news cycle hasn't really covered many Rohingya issues since the Rohingya genocide. The world's kind of moved

on from caring about them, but they're still in a very difficult situation and we want to update you on issues that continue to face the Rohingya people. I hope you enjoy the interview. So today I'm joined by Aung Kyaw Moe, who's an advisor to the National Unity Government of Myanmar, which people will hopefully be familiar with. If not, he can explain a little bit of what that is. He's an advisor to the Ministry of Human Rights and also a Rohingya human rights activist himself. So Pai, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you for having me.

Yeah. So what I'd love to do today is I think if our listeners have listened to our previous coverage of what's happening in Myanmar or Burma, depending on which one you prefer, they will know a lot about the coup and they will know a lot about the things that have happened since the coup right the pdfs and the ethnic resistance organizations but i think they might not be as familiar with the situation uh that the rohingya people have been in for a long time and continue to be in it's a different part of the country. We were in Mesot, which is on the other side. That's something we've covered a lot less. So perhaps you could begin by explaining

why there are so many Rohingya refugees who have left. Obviously, the history of the persecution of Rohingya people is very long. But if you could give us sort of a potted history of the persecution of Rohingya people is very long, but if you could give us sort of a potted history of the persecution of Rohingya people by various governments in Myanmar and what has led to this massive exodus and this big refugee population of Rohingya people now,

that would be great to start with. Great, thank you. Thank you for having me. And the history is very long, but I will be concrete and short. The Rohingya people have been in Myanmar before Burma even existed, before Burma became Burma, and before the British came and their significant architectural related infrastructure that exists, indicates the existence of the Rohingya. And there's a lot of literature, research, and Rohingya people themselves living in generations

and generations there indicates that Rohingya are part of Myanmar and it used to be and it will be. And Rohingya are not only the ethnic minority, they are also the religious minority. Majority of Burmese people are Buddhist, and of course the second largest, followed by the Muslims are Christian, and then the third largest are Muslim,

and Rohingya are Muslim. And Rohingya are single Muslim ethnic groups, and also religious ethnic groups. And there has been historical exclusion discriminations sponsored and carried out by the consecutive government of Myanmar to target this religious and ethnic minority to exclude from religious, ethnic and social aspects of the society. And it has been politically motivating for many government.

It has always been beneficial in convincing the larger populations of Myanmar by showing Rohingya as a threat to the country because of their religious differences and the way that we wear and we eat are slightly different than Burmese, because we have our own culture and own traditions and own language and it's enriched by those. Thus, the first start of executing these discriminatory policies towards the Rohingya started as far as back in 1960,

where the first coup took place, 1962, when the first coup took place, and then the consecutive military government accelerated that to form two situations where it can be defined and fall under the category of the crimes against humanity. So in 1978 there is a big operation against Rohingya people to deport them and 200,000 people has to be flee to Bangladesh and some of them still remain as refugees to third generation fourth generations in bangladesh not being able to repatriate it to the place where they uh they come from and followed by that uh the 1992 there was another influx of the refugees and uh the refugee uh it's also the quite significant larger number of the refugees and and uh and not everyone could come back and

there is another uh layer of the refugees that uh remains uh from the repatriating then from the the violation of the human right violations became toward the rohingya as business as usual uh limiting the child uh the number of child that you can have and treating you less than an animal, not having the religious right to exercise the way that you believe and restrictions of movement, killing, raping, and it's continued and it has been accelerated in different form and shape where it could come to a situation from crimes crimes against humanity it's being transformed to genocides and and in 2017 it's one to the highest peak of the genocides where a million people are being deported uh by burning and many thousand people died and many thousands women being raped and

there are a lot of fatherless a child in the camp today uh born by the women who are victims of the rape of the Myanmar military. And today there is a million people in Bangladesh with no hope to be repatriated soon to the place of origin with safety and dignity. And of course, the political landscape in myanmar has shifted uh it used to be in the democratic um transition from 2010 to 2020 with two consecutive different government and and uh the democratically elected government has been overthrown by uh by a temku by the military who had ruled the country for for for many And of course the democratically elected government,

which I advise to is being, some of the member of the government are being arrested and some are in the ethnic territorial control and some are in exile. And so the country, so the reactions of the 50 million people has been different because there has been several coup in Myanmar. And this was the political calculations of the military leaders to attempt the coup was wrong, that they did not expect the resistance of the people. And then, of course, the young Generation Z people came in to resist.

the the young generation z people came in to to resist and usually they claim to be peacefully protesting to hand over the power back to the uh to the to the democratically elected people but as a result they were being brutally cracked on and killed arrested and then and then young people started to understand that we need to speak the language that they understand they understand so they speak that language is grabbing a gun and forming the military. So followed by that, national unity government has been formed with elected members of the parliament, both lower and upper house. So the national unity government today is the most legitimate government of Myanmar and having also some territorial control. Of course, the majority of the government infrastructure are being captured illegally by the military junta.

Yeah, and it's interesting that people aren't familiar with the sort of ethnic makeup of previous governments and then the National Unity Government. From what I understand, it's not as much dominated by the majority ethnic Burman people in the National Unity Government as it was before, even under the NLD, even under the most democratic that there has been in Myanmar for some time. There was still a domination by one ethnicity, but the National Unity Government is more ethnically diverse. Is that right? Correct. But still, there are a lot of rooms for improvement, particularly Rohingya people has always been part of Myanmar and

politically excluded. And despite a million people being pushed out to Bangladesh through a genocidal attempt, the remaining populations in Myanmar is 600,000 people, politically representative both sides of populations, under continued genocidal attempts of the Myanmar military. And the national United government did not include politically meaningfully the Rohingya populations till now. And they appointed me as an advisor, but a politically representable size of populations need to be represented not by functions alone, it needs to be both all represented by functions and number equally to to uh to other ethnic and we are in the context of identity uh politics in Myanmar and your political rights and and responsibilities to what to the nations are associated that the very identity that you were

uh so time to time there is a big questions like you know we are moving forward to the path of democracy to make the country to to back to the track of democracy but the the very principle of democracy is majority rules and and respect the minorities right right and still the the Rohingya are being uh despite the international uh pressure particularly the United States and its allies to have inclusive democracy and Rohingya people are not yet meaningfully included in the government. Yeah, and I think that's something we've spoken about a lot with Karen and Karen-y people who we've spoken to about sort of the need for a more inclusive structure, whether that's like a federal democracy after, obviously after the military junta has been deposed or certainly something

that's more inclusive and perhaps we can talk about how like it's very interesting to me when i talk to young people generation uh z people from myanmar they will say that like they wouldn't have even said sometimes rohingya like 10 years ago that they wouldn't have used the term. They'd have seen the people who we now, who we would call Rohingya as Bangladeshis, right? Because this was the narrative. Can you explain how, you've explained very well that that's not true, but how that narrative was constructed and what it was used to do? I think it's, once again, to exclude Rohingya and to carry out systematic distractions mentally and physically on the Rohingya is also a lot to do with the spreading propaganda,

misinformations and disinformations through state-led media, both online and offline. And so this means these distractions has happened to the state sponsored and state pre-planned intentional way of doing it and thus the society the Rohingya people has been restricted from moving and this one of the least developed region where the Rohingya people live and a lot of people from like other state wouldn't be able to travel and go and see what is happening really inside there and Rohingya people would not be able to move out of that to tell their stories. So all the narrative that people hear is the military and the government, what the government used to put at that moment. So in the eyes or in the

perceptions of the people, the Rohingyas are from Bangladesh and they are trying to take over the country and they are a national security threat. And that was the narrative. So the reality is being defined by the perceptions and false and misinformation that being given in a consistent, intentional way to the young people. And of course, today, I think has changed slightly

to be seeing what is reality and people showing the sympathy to what happened to the Rohingya because it's every time something happened in Myanmar like that, it's consistent to what to the Rohingya, the human rights violations, crimes against humanity and genocide. And the people, 50 million people in Myanmar were not,

either they are seeing neutral or they are standing with the military, not like to, that they should do this and this is right to do, to kill people, try to rape because they are national security threat. But what had happened to the Rohingya people, perhaps in the not the same shape and same celerity or velocity or momentum or intensity, started to happen after the coup to the Burma people. And then they tend to realize, oh, what happened to the Rohingya, what Rohingya

used to tell, burning the whole villages, killing and raping is exactly what what is happening uh more or less exactly what is happening to us then they they were right and it's uh the victims change and the proper treatise remain the same and with that concept people come to but again i think the still it's very small number of the populations uh uh compared to the whole populations that uh lives in yanmar and And in the democratic principles, there is no, like, you don't tend to say something just because that you sympathize, and there are principles and values

that you do not compromise in any circumstance. So equal rights, justice, and inclusivity, and like celebrating of the diversity. These things are very core principles of the democracy that we are like as Burmese people asking from international community to help. What we are preaching for towards the democracy need to be demonstrated at home first. We need to act upon.

And so I think the benchmark, there is no, the benchmark shouldn't be defined to include or exclude someone based on the sympathies, need to be based on the principles and values. Welcome, I'm Danny Threl. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter. Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and dare enter. Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters

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Check out betteroffline.com. Can you explain a little bit about the situation that Rohingya people who have left Myanmar, maybe they're in Cox's Bazaar, maybe they're in no man's land, maybe they're now being moved to an island, right? Can you explain what life is like for those people? Of course, when Rohingya people fled to Bangladesh, it was attempting to survive. Like they managed to survive and otherwise many died. And they could be one of those who died and they survived. Meaning that these all people have physical and mental destruction and unhealed scars

in their physical and mental aspects of their life. And of course, a million people in Bangladesh to be hosted by the Bangladesh government and Bangladesh people has been also very difficult because the resource in the given area is very limited and Bangladesh itself is a small country with limited resource and we should always appreciate Bangladeshi people and Bangladeshi government to open their arms and hearts to absorb and the Emilian people and and and and again i think the problem has started in myanmar and the the solutions need to be in myanmar and and people need to be going with safe dignified uh way to the place of origin and and of course bangladesh

uh it has been five years plus now that the people like the largest influx took place in 2017 years plus now that the people like the largest influx took place in 2017 uh and there were repatriations that time being made and and the when people fled from Myanmar jump into the river and bay of Bengal in 2017 because the land was more dangerous than the sea situations remain very same or even worse than that now in Myanmar to be going back. So you escape from a grave that you have buried to be killed and being pushed to go back to Myanmar is as in sent him back to the grave that he escaped from dying. So the situation doesn't favor for a safe, dignified, voluntary return for the Rohingya.

That's Bangladeshi. Authorities are trying to find different innovative modality, different ways how to create a sustainable situation for the Rohingya, including relocations of the certain number of the Rohingya populations, because the camps are very congested and the hygiene level in the camp are very low and there are a lot of also the crowd on like you know if a million people in a small scale place like that are being closed anything could happen anytime you know so the idea was to by the Bangladeshi government which doesn't fall into into the principle of international way of doing things and and relocating some of these

refugees to an island uh that has is a new island no human being has been ever lived there and the island has been technically uh from various technical assessments, has identified it's not livable by human beings yet. And because there are a lot of like cyclones and floods and things like that. And it's very far away from mainland of Bangladesh. So there is risk from various perspectives to be able. But despite this, Bangladesh government has built sheltered this and relocated some number of Rohingya and some of them went by their own will seeing that it might be a different and some are being maybe perhaps forced and of course there are a certain number of like around

close to five to six thousand people in no man's land when Bangladesh at the beginning did not open its border to when drinking we're filling. And so this no man's land were being occupied by the nearby villages because Bangladesh wouldn't open the gate for them and they were stuck in India. So they have happened to be stuck there since last five years. And the remaining Rohingya lives in Cox's Bazar districts of Bangladesh in different parts of this district. So that's the situation.

Yeah, that's very well said. And some people have taken on recently leaving these camps in Bangladesh. They've taken on this very risky boat journey, right? I think they're going to places like Malaysia, if I'm not mistaken, Indonesia. Can you explain a little bit about how prevalent that is? And of course, how incredibly high risk it is for people to take that journey? Sure.

The situations in the camp is not much different than the life that they used to live in Myanmar, despite that the level of human rights violations and the treatment that they are having may not be the same. But Bangladesh is not a signatory to 1952 refugee conventions, and it's not legally obliged to be following all international norms and protocols to be hosting the refugees. But despite they have demonstrated the humanity and demonstrated the moral obligations to the humanity to host the Emilian people. And then the Emilian people, some of them has been from 1978 and some of them are from 1992. Some of them are from 2017. It has a very dark future. They are closed in this fence camp and the movements are restricted.

Access to information is not given. Access to information, like internet service and things like that has been denied access to livelihoods are denied and they are not able to legally work and solely rely on to to the international humanitarian assistance access to education has been denied so the the young people who are growing in this camp does not see a future that they will be able to go back to myanmar or if they live here as if you're living at that like you know you don't have any any any way forward seeing a bright future so there is uh there is the only uh they don't have a best alternative uh to be try to be exploring different path and the only path it happened to be

is uh being created in the past uh uh in the past by some Rohingyas taking these boats and making to Malaysia, where they could do some domestic works and get a refugee status and maybe able to work. And some, you're lucky enough to be resettled in a third country, a small number, maybe less than 2-3% of the total Rohingya in Malaysia. So the journey is very risky the the the the boats that they are taking the the first the sea is very rough that they take and they are the the the infrastructure what infrastructure that they're taking are not uh built like they not built in a way to be coping with this rough sea and rough rough weathers and climate so many of these rohingya people who

make this less than 50 percent of them may make it to the to the destinations either they die on the sea or they are being arrested by different navies and and or they are they are being jailed by by myama myanmar junta and in 2022 alone 3 500,500, more than 3,500 people, including children as young as two years old, are jailed to five years for trying to attempt to go to Malaysia. So this is what is happening. So the life is meaningless there. And of course, taking this journey means that you are tossing a coin whether you you you get a tail or you get uh you get head or you got tails you know and and and uh so it's like batting your life whether if you make it uh your life to somewhat level meaningfully if you don't

make it your life and it is more or less the same that you will live in there in there uh so that's why these are the push factors and of course they are full factors reunifications if a son has made three years ago five years ago to to malaysia and working in the constructions or or or or gardening like levers and and you have a remaining family in the camp and you don't want to see your family in that situation and you're going to bring your family the kids or children or wife and you do that. Lastly, also they are growing youth in Malaysia who want to marry the Rohingya and maintain the culture and language

and things like that. So they want to have rights bringing from the refugee camp and so there are different pull factors as well from Malaysia, but the primary factor is the push factor in Myanmar and in bangladesh right yeah and it's perfectly reasonable for people to want

sort of yeah some futures and chance to realize their own life and their goals welcome i'm daniel won't you join me at the fire and dare enter... Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows. Presented by I Heart and Sonorum. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures.

I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Nothing to lose.

This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God, things can change if we're loud enough.

So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, películas, and entertainment with we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities,

artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community,

and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, can you explain, people will probably have seen, like I think we're recording this on Thursday, which is the 19th, and people will have seen the last couple of days,

maybe videos of fires in No Man's Land. And they will probably have seen like some acronyms, which are a lot of acronyms when you're reading about Myanmar, it can be very confusing. So could you explain a little bit about who these two groups that we've seen, right, the ARSA and the RSO, who they are and what they represent and perhaps why these two groups who are normally Rohingya are fighting each other? So in the context of Myanmar politics, the ethnic people have been fighting for decades and decades with Myanmar military and Burma supremacy, like larger majority supremacy. At the beginning, they were attempt during the time of independence through reconciliations and dialogue, meaning like without arms.

But the language, again, being understood by the Myanmar larger majority is the language that they speak as well. So then ethnic people started to grab the arms and resist, control their territory, to attempt to control their territory in order to get the equal right and decide for their own future, be part of the decisions that collectively impact the nations, and basically equal right justice and those things. That's what ethnic peoples are fighting for

and giving their lives and livelihoods. It's nothing less than that and nothing more than that. It's very simple. We want to live with dignity, freely, equally with anyone else. And so many ethnic revolutionary organizations forms came up in different part of Myanmar representing different ethnic.

And Rohingya also used to be one of those back in 1950, after 1948, depending. And 1952, Rohingya is the first one to drop the gun in exchange of the peace with the government, saying that we are peace-loving people and as long as you give us what our identity and we're able to... So then there's a certain period of time

that the Rohingya people did not have an arm opposition uh group uh because i am someone who believe in non-violent movement but in a context like myanmar again non-violence movement wouldn't go anywhere if it's worked 70 years uh myanmar wouldn't have longest civil war in the world yes more than 70 years right so we need to be practical and seeing the reality like that so then then 1978 again these things happened and then and the Rohingya thinks okay then what we have been promised and what we have we are being told to be promised to be given is not given so we have to grab the gun again and form uh do as others are doing in order to to uh so the rohingya solidarity organization has been formed and and it

has been one of the popular organizations getting a lot of popularity from the rohingya community and then there were issues within the institution that has been growing of course uh uh they were not able to maintain uh the the institutional growth and institutional resource management and then the the institution collapse and as well as it has to do something with it like you don't have a territory like other uh other other uh arm of positions group will will be in stations in Myanmar where Rohingya where stations in Bangladesh and Bangladesh government were not really supporting enough for them to survive uh with with with them to enhance its

military capability and of course there are several other other other things and and um so then it's disappeared in between and then and 2014 uh this guy a guy called uh And in 2014, this guy, a guy called, the guy who is leading currently the ARC, the Arkan Salvation Army, who was born in Pakistan and grew up in Saudi Arabia, his parent, he claimed his parent is Rohingya. Of course, he speaks the Rohingya language that means it indicates that he is and came to our Rakhine state to mobilize people saying that you need to grab the gun and this is what then people of course who have critical thinking skills and did not believe into things because it needs to be from and within and someone who does not

understand how Myanmar politics look like cannot lead revolutions because revolutionary has to do a lot with the with the politics uh political landscape as well in the country and and uh but however there are certain number of people who believe in it and for a very small number and uh and Rohingya didn't want to again fight or or enter into violence and they just want to live peacefully and and that uh uh and they are resilient uh to what to the to to what they are trying to uh uh gain uh equally as others and and uh so then the uh our conservation survey um uh erse has attacked the post uh 30 different police force in 2017. That's where the collective punishment has been given as a result to the Rohingya community. And it's not collective

action. It was individuals action. A certain hundreds of people gathered together and at 10 police force and the whole Rohingya population has been punished. So then followed by that as well, RSO has been re-strategizing themselves. And then Rohingya solidarity organizations also pop up parallelly back in 2018, 2019. And of course the ideology that they stand are slightly different from one another. And so that's why the clash happened. And Rohingya solitary organization think that

like the way that ARSA has been conducting and they're responsible for what happened to the Rohingya people as collectively genocides and things like that, creating opportunities for Burmese military to wipe out the Rohingya and deport the Rohingya. And so there were these political disagreements between these two groups. And this nomad land has been mostly occupied within the Rohingya refugees there. Some ARSA members are often trying to enter there and stations there. And so recently, what we have learned from the ground

is that our SO, Rohingya Solidarity Organizations, wrote out operations to remove them from there so that the Rohingya refugee in the normal land could live peacefully without crimes and things like that. And that's how the fight started and it's escalated. And there were 200 houses being burned down, shelters, refugee shelters. Around 2,500 to 3,000 people has been, has to be displaced. They were not allowed to enter Bangladesh because no man's land is not accessible by neither parties and it's just in between.

So some of them have destroyed the fence to go to Burma and enter to there because they are just from the nearby villages. They could see their villages for five years, but they could not go back. So they went back there. But now Myanmar military is pushing them out from there back to the no man lands. Yeah it's just a terrible situation and if those these aren't the only armed groups in that state right there are other armed groups but like this this sort of explains it more succinctly like if we get into the other armed groups it gets even more complicated. So I wonder what people listening obviously will, they've heard a lot about the conflict in Burma, about the various different groups that are being persecuted by the Burmese military. How can they help specifically with this issue? Is there ways

that people can help out? I think we have seen how the world came together to help Ukraine people unjustly uh illegally uh to be attacked by by Russia and uh and threatening the democratic society of the world and and that has been very inspiring appreciated and and and we stand with the Ukrainian people. And people in Burma, the value of the life of the people in Burma has also, there is no difference in lives. You can buy one. So the people in Myanmar have been fighting for the cost of life and livelihood today

with whatever means that they have to make this country back to the path of democracy and and so international community should do uh beyond releasing the statement uh or or of concern and a statement of concern maybe maybe uh may name and shame and may put political pressure and political pressure uh is the thing that's being cared by the junta. So the total enemy of the overall people, including Rohingya people, are the military. And they are the one who has destroyed this country and they are the one who is destroying, and they are responsible, primarily responsible people, institutions who wiped out the Rohingya and who carried out the genocide. So I think the international community should do beyond sanctions, embargo, and respective citizens

of the country should claim to their respective government to do more for Burmese people and the Rohingya people to demonstrate the moral obligations to the humanity. And in 21st century, genocide took place while the world was watching. And we said in the United Nations back in 1948, that's never again. And it's very shameful that it could, that genocide could take place in the eyes of 8 billion people in 21st century in modern age. And the world failed to protect the Rohingya, despite there has been compelling stories, images and satellite arrays and still it's continued to be. So, and followed by that crimes against humanity war crimes has been being committed continually by the by the same military that committed genocide yeah and I I think the international community will have at some point to answer to themselves on their beliefs of

the humanity yeah like I think the international community let this happen for too long and they ignored it for too long. And then now this always happens, right? It's like Foucault's boomerang. The violence spreads and gets used in the metropole. And it's deeply upsetting. What does that support look like from the international community? Does that mean man pads for PDFs?

Does it mean recognizing the National Unity Government? Like what concrete things should the community be doing? The international community should recognize. There are, again, there are some issues that need to be fixed within the National Unity Government, particularly the inclusions of the Rohingya and other uh like

it's its positions to what to the religious other religious and ethnic minorities particularly those are small and that need to be fixed and international community should do it in an incentivized way that okay you do this and we will do this for you. And the recognitions come with incentive of supporting, because it's only legitimate. Whether we like the national unity government or not, we don't have the best alternative to it. It's democratically elected. And there is a lot of issues within the national unity government, uh within uh the the national unity government

particularly when it's come to the rohingya issues so these need to be dealt in national unity government i have been consistently advising them to fix this acting beyond policy and and and showing like state level prioritized agenda uh with concrete milestone to uh to uh to the change to what to the Rohingya. And of course, parallel to that, international communities should ensure that supports are being given, being recognized. And in order to win these revolutions, which has shaken this very institution

that has consumed the resource of the country in various means and ways, and one of the strongest institutions has been shaken by the young people with very small means. Very small. And time to time, very innovative and utilizing whatever means that they had. An international community should provide support to PDF to be first and foremost institutionalizing and capacity building enhancing acting upon international standard we are operating as a

military group and of course when you are being established as a military uh and it's it's it's being formed by the by the legal government of Myanmar and to support this this this military and many many nations are getting military assistance package yeah and and I think international communities should have no problem to provide military system package to of course in in a very principles and value-based with a value-based approach and and and and that's include the technical support to to uh to set up the mechanisms uh to hold accountable and to ensure the transparency and account across this spectrum yeah yeah i think that that's very well said and they do tend like people aren't familiar with the way the pdfs have been organized like they have been very respectful of like norms and laws of war and things like that,

which obviously the Burmese military have not. I think an institution that's a group that has been with 100,000, 100,000 people, young people with no prior military experience and mostly operating in a very limited to no resource context. And being able to respect the human rights and human dignity should be recognized. You know, when you have a gun and there are things that happen and need to be justified and being held accountable for. But I'm saying that I'm not saying that it should be allowed and any kind of misconduct within the military systems need to be investigated properly and take actions upon and held accountable those who carried out these actions

and who gave comment to carry out these actions. But the number of cases related to the PDF has been significantly low when it's come to the human rights violations. And it has to be zero. And even one is too much. But I'm saying compared to, and I think continued support need to be given there

in order to enhance their capacity to defeat the junta, plus to defeat it in a principle and value-based, with a principle and value-based with a principle and value-based approach yeah yeah certainly they could definitely do like the people we've spoken to are terribly equipped by any modern standards incredibly brave and innovative and they could certainly do a lot better if they had a lot more okay where can people if people want to follow along with your work which is is very impressive, how can they find you?

Do you want to share your Twitter account or a website maybe? Where can people keep up with you? So I'm on Twitter and Facebook mostly. And my Twitter is akmo2. And you can see it with my pictures. And I have put my bio as well there. And I'm also very active on the Facebook and the work related, most of the work that I do

are being, not everything, but some part that international community need to know are being portrayed there. And particularly the human rights situations related to the Rohingya and Rohingya refugees in Bangladesh are being shared there in a timely, very timely manner, sometimes even lives.

It's happening now. Yeah, you've been very good at that. I follow your Twitter account. It's very informative and it helps me stay informed. So it's AKMOE2 if people are searching for it. Thank you so much for giving us some of your evening. I really, really appreciate your time. Is there anything else you want to get to before we finish up?

No, it's lovely to be part of the program and thank you so much for having me once again. Thank you very much. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow Broth. Thanks for listening. by the most terrifying legends and lords of Latin America. Listen to Nocturno on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking musica, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists,

comedians, actors, and influencers. Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only Nuestra Gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999,

five-year-old Cuban boy, Elian Gonzalez, was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.