It Could Happen Here - Striketober 2: The Aftermath with Kim Kelly

Episode Date: November 17, 2021

We talk with Kim Kelly about Striketober, the importance of maintaining support for strikes after they leave the headlines, and the potential for labor action to move conservatives left Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Even by our standards, that's an intro. That's actually one of your better ones. Thank you. This is, of course, It Could Happen Here, a show about how things aren't going so great, kind of falling apart, crumbling a bit, but also maybe things could be better. That would be nice. Let's try and do that. Today is one of the maybe things could be better episodes, and we are talking about the ongoing wave of strikes uh we had striketober last month with uh john deere strikes and and and strikes uh

and like uh whatchamacallit a couple of different food companies bunch of strikes um and today we would like to get an update on all the motherfuckers who are out there striking for better conditions um and and better treatment um and today for that purpose we've brought on the great kim kelly kim you are a journalist uh who focuses a hell of a lot on labor you've been up and down uh to some of the coal strikes that have been going on you were there for the amazon um attempt to form the union in, oh, geez, was that Arizona? Alabama. Alabama, Alabama. And you're writing a book on the history of labor in the United States. So I'd like to just kind of turn the floor over to you. There's a floor.

Okay. There's a floor. There's no ceiling. There's a floor. It is filthy, just as a heads up. Well, you know, we're doing our best, aren't we? Some of us are. Yeah. You are. We are not. I am. filthy just as a heads up you know we're doing our best aren't we yeah no we are we are yeah

you are we are not i am i'm trying to keep up with all this labor action this exciting action hot labor action yeah some hot labor action stories so as you mentioned we're just kind of coasting off of the peak of striketober which was such a fun thing to kind of see explode in the mainstream consciousness. Like usually labor stories, they're a big deal to the people that are involved in them and people in the labor world who are watching and like rooting for them, but they don't necessarily end up on like,

you know, the mainstream, like they don't end up on the TV. They don't end up with like fancy old guys talking about it on Dateline or whatever, but that's something that happened. And I think there's been a real shift in consciousness that has accompanied that.

And of course, you know, it's like Striketober is fun. There's all these big strikes happening at the same time. But we, of course, need to remember that that didn't happen in a vacuum. There's people on strike now who have been on strike since before it was cool, right? Since much earlier. Like, shout out to the St. Vincent nurses

up in Massachusetts and to the coal miners in Brookwood, Alabama, Warrior Met, who have both been on strike for over eight months. Jiminy Christmas. Right? So literally, they're in the middle of their tour drives for their children because they've been on strike for so long. And they kind of got a little bit left out of the conversation around striketober. And I think that just kind of shows that we need to be paying attention even when it's not as flashy or new or exciting. I mean, striketober is exciting, but, you know, there's a lot going on.

And one of the things I think is interesting and important, especially as we head into Strikesgiving, which I guess we're doing. Yeah, Strikesgiving, Strikesmas, Strikentimes Day. actually is we head into uh strikes giving which i guess we're doing yeah strikes giving strikes miss striking time you are strike you are i guess you can strike strike you are tricks day the fourth of strike you lie yeah it's right yeah yeah it's it gets worse really until we get to labor day and by then yeah Yeah, Strikers Day. That one works pretty well. I'm also a fan of Strike and Tines Day. Strike and Tines Day.

That's cute. Love and rage, baby. We can keep this going. Strike a ween. Strike a ween. There's a missed opportunity there. Although that frightens me, Garrison, that the band Ween might go on strike,

and I don't know that society could handle that. What would we do? We would be completely out of Ween. Our reserves of Ween aren't going to last long if they stop. Yeah, that's unacceptable. Yeah, there's been a tragic shortage of Ween for years now. I don't know that we could handle a strike. Please continue, Kim.

I mean, I didn't realize you were a nerd, Robert. This kind of throws some things into question. uh-huh yeah uh-huh yeah i mean as a heavy metal dirt bag i'm like contractually obligated to say things like that but um as i was pontificating uh a minute ago oh right so as we go into strikes giving there are still more big strikes on the horizon and potential big strikes on the horizon but part of the story that i think is also very energizing and important is the organizing that's happening in the new unions that are hopefully going to end up being formed not necessarily as a result of this wave of attention but they're kind of caught up in the tide i mean we look at the starbucks workers in Buffalo who have scared the shit out of their

employers to the point where they're flying executives in to follow them around the store and be like, please don't vote for a union. We need all of our billions of dollars. We can't share. Or, you know, even workers at Wirecutter who are threatening to strike on Black Friday and their whole thing is telling people what stuff to buy. You know, and McDonald's workers in, I I think 10 different, either 10 different cities or 10 different states, 10 different locations just went out on like a one day strike over

sexual harassment in the workplace. Kroger workers are taking a strike authorization vote in Texas. We have multiple Amazon organizing attempts happening in Staten Island and a rerun of the election coming up in Bessemer, Alabama. And there's just so much happening that, you know, I hope that the novelty idea of the strikes till we're strikes giving. I hope like that was fun, but I hope now that people are paying attention, that they stay interested and realize that, you know, labor stories, maybe it's not necessarily always like a big strike or like a cool picket line to look at. But there's a lot going on. Like every story is a work story. Every story is a labor story.

And people seem like they're finally catching on to the fact that, yeah, we're all workers. And wow, cool things happen when we come together. Yeah, I hope that too. I hope that too, and I hope that – the word on everybody's lips who's – I don't know, coming at this from kind of a little bit of a more either radical or desperate point of view depending on how you want to frame it is like general strike, general strike. And there's been some – there's been people online who keep saying like, OK, well, we're all just going to go on Black Friday, everybody general strike. And it's like, yeah, well, you don't set that up on Twitter. Like the unions that are striking now have strike funds and put a lot of thought into it and have like had to take – there's things you have to do in order to not irresponsibly like just screw over a bunch of working people. But it is like I'm a believer in the potential of something like a general strike to force significant concessions.

I mean, if we did it right. Yeah. It's a big if. I mean, it's a huge if because it's never really effectively been – like there's been pieces of it done. Like we saw – I think the closest we've gotten in like my lifetime has been when the airline workers threatened to go on strike over the budget thing. And you just saw the federal government go, oh, fuck. Nope. You know what?

We can actually pass this thing. I mean that's the thing. Like that threat. I think that when Sarah Nelson said that, even like hinted towards that in 2019 when the government shut down. That sort of – that was a tipping point i think that's the first time people would well really it was probably the first time in many people's lifetimes that an actual labor leader with that platform had even mentioned those words because general like general strikes historically kind of are more situated in that late 19th century early 20th century like labor swinging its dick around era and we've been

kneecapped so much yeah that doesn't feel as as possible but i mean the fact that she said and she was part of the airline industry if we're ever going to actually you know bring capital to its knees we're going to need the transportation workers we're going to need the dock workers we're going to need to like actually analyze who is moving things around the country, who's making sure things work, and how can we get them to put down their tools and be like, okay, we're going to do something about this. The whole General Strike idea,

and arguably one of the first ones was in Black Reconstruction, the book, there's this argument that the first General Strike was enslaved enslaved people leaving the plantations and and withdrawing their labor from that situation like that was a form of striking and i think the general strike is kind of a amorphous idea especially online as more people learn about labor and learn about it but it's also like kind of a specific thing yeah you can't just declare like okay we're all not going to go to work tomorrow. Like, cool.

But there's so much planning that goes into it to make sure that people are able to do that and sustain that. And the people that are traditionally, you know, already left out or the most vulnerable and marginalized, like their needs are prioritized. Because the people that can afford to declare general strike and not show up for a week, like that's all well and good for them. But what about everyone else who can barely afford to go to work at all? Yeah, I've had these arguments with people online and it's often like, well, you're saying we shouldn't do like if we just do it, people will figure it out. Like the infrastructure will be built after the fact.

And I'm like, that's I'm glad that you're in a situation where you feel like you could, you could handle that kind of uncertainty, but like a single mother of four who relies on her, her job to like keep them fed and alive, isn't going to be like, someone will figure out how to feed my kids. Like, well,

that's not how people work, you know? Yeah. This is where having like a robust commitment to mutual aid and strike funds and, like, an actual fabric, like, having the fabric of a community where you can depend on your neighbors instead of never talking to them. Like, a general strike would have a huge impact, but on who? Like, who would it hurt more if you didn't plan it properly, if you didn't have an actual grassroots network of people ready to help, if you didn't plan it properly if you didn't have a if you didn't have an actual grassroots

network of people ready to help if you didn't have the understanding that not everyone can just go run off in the streets some people like have mobility issues some people have children some people are older or sicker like there's so much that goes into it yeah it's like your car is fucked up and you know you need to take it in to get some stuff fixed or it's eventually going to break down entirely but that doesn't mean the right solution is just get in there and start hitting shit with a hammer like you need to there needs to be like some systemic way you approach it right like there's a proper way to fix an engine um right and we can do that like we can start building those networks we can start you can organize your workplace and plug

into the into like the organized labor framework which obviously has many flaws not as radical as i and many other people like it to be but they know how to do this shit like there there's a lot of different pieces that can be pulled together in different organizations and populations that need to work together if we're actually going to accomplish something like this yep and i don't know if people are ready to put in all that work because it's more fun to tweet yeah but i am wondering yeah as they say in alabama bless their hearts you're you're spending a tremendous amount i mean as you just noted you're spending a tremendous amount of time on the ground with a lot of these people talking with them are you are you seeing kind of – how are you hearing them talk about the other strike

efforts in other industries that are going on right now? Because it has been more in the news than it's been at any point I can recall in the recent past. And I'm wondering how in places like Bessemer, in places like that coal miners strike you've been at, how are they being – to what extent are they talking about other strike efforts? Like, is that, does that seem to be something that there's a lot of kind of consciousness and discussion about, or is it just kind of in the background? I mean, it really depends. I, like you said, I spent, I spent most of my time with the coal miners over the past year, I've been writing a book and I spend my one, my one fun thing, but I've been, I mean, I talk to them every single day and I've been to Alabama lots of times and I, you know, I'm in a group

chat with the wives. Like I, I know I have a decent grasp of what's going on and honestly the thing about it is that some there there are some folks who are very engaged and who have made twitters and they have their Facebook groups and they do pay attention to what's happening they do think they feel that kind of excitement and that widespread sense of solidarity but one thing that's important to remember especially for workers who are already disadvantaged or they're dealing with low-wage labor, is it's really hard to go on strike. There's a lot of shit they have to figure out.

There's kids, there's health issues, there's how am I going to pay my rent. Funds are great, but they don't cover everything. I think that's one of the realities that maybe gets sort of glossed over because we're all so online and we like to you and me feels like, oh, everyone's fucking stoked about these strikes. But for someone in rural Alabama who is just hoping this strike is over soon so they can go back to work and have some financial stability, they're not necessarily

reading your tweets or like signing up for webinars or even paying attention to like cool other strike efforts i'm sure some some folks are aware and they find have that time to plug in but most people are just trying to get by and these are folks who spend like eight hours a day on the picket lines and there's no cell phone service out where their picket lines are like there's only so much that a normal regular worker on the picket line can do to keep up. Yeah. And you came into this, I think, unlike a lot of the people who are actually striking, you came into this with a lifelong history of interest in kind of labor justice movements and whatnot, which I don't think most people who are in unions necessarily spend a ton of time studying the last hundred years of labor relations. What has surprised you? Like what has like been a new realization that you've gotten since you started covering this stuff on the ground in this most recent period? So the thing that's really sticks with

me, and I'm going back to my minors again, that's you know my one of the most familiarity but something that i think has so much potential and i'm not entirely sure how to articulate what that potential is but so something i have seen is when this strike began most not all but the majority of the folks involved in this particular strike were conservative christian people who were a lot of them voted for Trump. A lot of them were like, just in that world, maybe not like, you know, wild mega people, but that's just what was the norm where they are in their community. And they don't really think about it that much. But there are some people that I've seen, especially those who are involved in the mutual aid efforts or have been, who have seen Birmingham DSA come out, who have kind of taken this kind of like wider view of what's

happening how they fit in I've seen their politics and their perspective shift like there are some people who are like straight-up socialists now that seven months ago would have probably spit in your face or at least given you a hell of a look if you had even suggested such a thing and this is a small sample size, and this is a unique situation. But I think it really speaks to the potential there to reach people who are very ideologically, politically different from what we maybe think of as labor people, as progressive, radical, whatever, people on our team, right? But the power of the strike and the power of labor is that there is so much,

there's kind of an inherent common ground because so many people, most people, a lot of people, most people have a job. A lot of people hate their boss. You can kind of build from that very, very low baseline and find more common ground and kind of you can you can work towards a better understanding like maybe you're not going to be best friends but you can potentially shift someone's harmful worldview by exposing them to new ideas once they trust that you're not just there to tell them they're wrong and stupid and bad you're like look we I we're coming at this like I'm gonna talk to you like a person I understand we see the world differently but like you know I'm here to support you. I'm here listening to you. Maybe you could listen to what I have to say, too. Maybe it might change how you see things. And sometimes it works. Yeah.

Yeah. You know what else works, Kim? Blowing shit up. Well, okay. Allegedly. In Minecraft. Yeah. I was going to say cap ads. Cap adlisms.

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has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong though, I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God,

things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Material support, right? Yeah. Another concrete example there, the Birmingham DSA has been very active in fundraising

and showing up and just providing support for the minors and the people on strike. And this is not necessarily a population of people that like the idea of socialism, whatever idea of it is that they hold, because Fox News and Rush Limbaugh are big cultural standbys there. Like whatever they think socialism is. And then have a bunch of socialists show up and just practice solidarity and mutual aid and practice socialism. And they're like, oh, these guys are great. Thank you for coming out.

Things like that, where it's like, I feel like so much of radical politics and various tendencies, there's just like a branding problem. And there's a propaganda problem on the right wing and the mainstream media doesn't tell anybody what anything means. That's a propaganda problem on the right wing and the mainstream media doesn't tell anybody what anything means. It's a broader conversation, right?

I felt for a while like one of the things that leftist organizers need to get better at doing is being willing to drop names when they're not productive. Like, okay, maybe these people, because of the media environment they've grown up in, are never going to want to consider themselves socialists but if they are willing to organize together and support the efforts of other working people to organize together against uh the capital holding class like then okay like what is it why do you need them to like start quoting carl marx or is it just cool that you've you've doing what they – like, yeah, that makes

a lot of sense to me that like, yeah, you can get a lot of these people on board with, again, pretty radical things if you're kind of approaching it from within their world, from within like, I'm not trying to talk to you about burning down the system. I'm trying to talk to you about how you get what you need. And it just so happens that how you get what you need is taking the system on in a very direct way. I mean, so many ideas that are painted as radical just like aren't like it's normal people caring for them. Like it is like community care and common sense. It's just been politicized to this insane extent. Even like a lot of the tenants of mutual aid, you can even see pop up in a lot of like It's just been politicized to this insane extent. And the place is like, oh, sorry. I'm just saying, like, even, like, a lot of the tenants of mutual aid you can even see pop up in a lot of, like, church communities as well.

At least, like, smaller, you know, closer-knit, like, communities that are actually, like, based around helping each other. At least I've observed that in a lot of my time traveling across the states. Yeah, absolutely. That's a huge part of it. Like, the church is the only mutual aid option in so many like smaller and more isolated rural communities or just communities where the church is a big deal like there's always ways to chip away at these institutions and eventually hopefully burn them down right without alienating people and making them feel like you're coming in

and telling them everything you believe is wrong and i'm sure and you know making a mistake some of these folks i'm sure they believe things that are absolute garbage and i would never yeah everybody does but yeah you know like there's you know but there's there's just that covering the strike in particular has really just taught me a lot about the gray areas in between not in a like wishy-washy liberal way but just in a way of like how do you relate to normal fucking people who see the world differently but are in yeah ultimately the same struggle as you like maybe i could i mean going down there the only time i've been around that many trump supporters was like at protests where i was yelling at them or like at my family dinners

so i wasn't you know i wasn't expecting to make friends but then i did and i think hopefully we've we've shifted each other's perspectives a little bit in a way that's beneficial i don't know it's been it's been interesting yeah talking to people really is a lot different than tweeting at them yeah as a rule don't tweet would be my recommendation to people never um never yeah talk to your neighbors and be nice to people when you buy coffee or food from them and you'll be amazed what happens and yeah tell your neighbors hey i'm taking my phone down to the river to throw it in can i take your phone with me can we just all throw our phones in the river um yeah yeah you can see how far that

gets you if you want to if you're gonna start out being the weird neighbor it's a strong start look we've already killed the water system so it's fine like just right in the river with the car batteries you know it's good for the eels the thing i love about our show is just the hope is is the incredibly uh hope injected optimism that we start and end every episode with. But no, I mean, like, yeah, the more people you know in your community, especially people who are, like, working class, you know, when bad stuff starts happening,

the more people you know, the better, because that's, I'm guessing a lot of these people who are, like, you know, like old union workers, they have a lot of physical skills. They know how to do a whole bunch of stuff, and it might be worth getting to know some of those people, even if, depending where you live, yeah, they'll probably say something not great,

at least for the first bit. But I have a lot of family in a rural area of Alberta, and yeah, my family is like pretty gay. So, you know, once you're in close to those people, yeah, they're going to say something that's maybe not great. But once they get to like know you and be like, oh, like you're another person. Like people actually, you know,

people want to be around other people and they'll even change the way they talk to be like, oh yeah, maybe this isn't the best way to hang out around people because it's going to drive people away. So, yeah, I'll change the way I say some things. It turns out people actually, like a lot of folks, just kind of want to make their lives a bit better. And that's really their main focus. Yeah. It's hard enough to do that.

enough to do that and it's it's it's just this matter of like so much of what um so much of what kind of the the way that discourse happens online has poisoned aspects of activism is in like making it difficult for people to relate in that way without feeling like well okay but if i can't get them on board with all of these other things like i can't talk with them or whatever like because they're because they don't agree with this and this like we can't organize you know like the purity of ideology yeah like i feel like most people who aren't terminally online don't even necessarily have like a specific ideology absolutely not yeah yeah right like there's just stuff that they have learned or they've decided that is true about the world they just stuff that they have learned or they've decided that is true about the world they just kind of go with it and they'll like interrogate it all the

time and you can like those are people you can talk to and maybe shift like i've done it with my dad like i've seen it happen with some of these conservative coal miner folks like even something as small as being able to humanize like like okay if you're talking about something oh like well the thing you said like that really upset joey and you like joey so like maybe think about that and they'll probably be chiller because like oh well that's yeah that's joey i can't i don't want to be a dick to him if we can just find a way to enact that on a very broad scale life would be a lot better for a lot of people yeah it's this it's this dichotomy between a lot people want to own the folks they

see as like being against them or being on the other side but also people don't want to be a dick to people that like they like you don't want to feel like you're a dick so if you if you lean more into the we're in opposition then you're going to to trigger the, well, I want to make the person who disagrees with me angry side of the brain. But if you can lean into the like, hey, we can get along, and maybe you don't want to feel like an asshole if we get along, then I don't know. That's a productive place to continue conversations from and a good way to shift people, I think. And then when your area floods because of severe rain and storms, way to shift people, I think. And then when your area floods because of severe rain and storms, then we have people that can help.

Yeah, it's the importance of interacting with people in person, like offline, which is obviously more difficult to do because we're still trapped in a pandemic. Yeah, there's a plague. Caveat, caveat, caveat. It's so much easier to talk to someone and see their worldview shift.

Or even just humanize yourself to someone who is inclined to not thinking of you as someone worth talking to. Yeah. As long as you're not putting yourself in danger. Yeah, obviously. It's easy for me to say stuff like this. I'm a blonde lady, you know. Yeah. But still.

We're not talking about, like, oh, you have to go be friendly to people who, like, want to murder you because you're trans. No. No, I would not tell anyone to do that. No, we're not talking about like oh you have to go be friendly to people who like want to murder you because you're trans no it's about no we're not saying that but most of these people don't think that maybe they have some regressive attitude no or or they'll use the word gay to mean something you know not cool and you'll be like hey i have to do that they'll be like hey you know i'm you know i'm actually gay or maybe you don't open that maybe you do depending on the situation to be like yeah hey maybe maybe there's other words that we can use for this because whatever. Yeah, and you can shift people into a closer alliance just by becoming a human in their eyes and also letting them become a human in your eyes, which is necessary the other option is not a pleasant one so i would prefer the option where more people grow to see each other as human and worth supporting right that

seems like a better tactic to me yeah i know there's this argument where like no one is oh like i shouldn't have to educate you i shouldn't have to put the time into to shift you and like that is valid that's fair like you shouldn't have to but ideally no yeah no yeah but if you want to that change to happen it's probably not going to happen unless you put some effort in because they're probably not gonna actually think they're fine yeah and uh i don't know there's a bunch of shit that you shouldn't have to do that we're also all gonna have to do like i we i shouldn't we i shouldn't have to say hey guys maybe we don't kill the ocean maybe killing the ocean is a bad idea like i shouldn't have to no one should have to say that but we do could we not because we're otherwise going to kill the ocean can we just not

please the fact that you shouldn't have to do something also doesn't mean that like the thing doesn't need to be done and obviously i don't think that the primary onus on speaking to let's say the kind of increasingly radicalized uh white lower middle and middle class i don't think that falls primarily on on people of color on on the lgbt community it falls on people like you and me kim you know literally yeah yeah but it still has to be done like it's a thing that needs to be done and i'm not saying hey you out there who you know? Literally, yeah. Yeah. But it still has to be done. Like, it's a thing that needs to be done. And I'm not saying, hey, you out there who, you know, left where you grew up in rural Alabama because someone was going to fucking murder you and you had to get to a place where you could not deal with that.

I'm not saying you need to go rolling back to Alabama. But it's good that people are talking and working with and trying to build connections with folks out there and change the nature of kind of aspects of the culture and make things better. Because that needs to be done. We can't just be like, well, fuck some of those people. Yeah, and again, that is definitely easier if you are like one of the bros if you are you know a a bigger cis adjacent dude yeah that is that is of course going to make things easier yeah i mean the way you think about like that's kind of the tax yeah that's not the right word but the fact that you do feel comfortable and you're you're safe and you're not under a threat in those spaces because of who you are

like as like a white cis or even a white cis lady like you like the price you pay for that is making it easier for everyone else to feel that too like that's like that's your job other people's jobs to survive and be safe you can be the one that pushes the boundaries on these things so when someone says something not great you can kind of call them out in like a bro-ish way and they can respond to that a lot better than, you know, than a lot of other people who they don't know, you know, screaming at them in a no context scenario. Yeah. Like, oh, you don't, I'm like, I'm a pretty lady. You don't want to make me upset by being rude.

That's rude. Exactly. Yeah. Like you shouldn't, you should see this thing as rude and not okay. Like the amount of men who have apologized to me down there for swearing. It's so funny. Yeah, man. My dude, I live in Philadelphia, but that's cute. But if I could just harness any of that chivalrous, whatever, chivalrous patriarchal viewpoint of like, hey, apply this to being cool to my trans friends or not being rude to anyone else.

Like, sure. I'm down. Yeah. We don't take kindly to misgendering around these parts yeah welcome i'm danny thrill won't you join me at the fire and dare enter nocturnal tales from the, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters

to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know it. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jack Peace Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. I'm Jack Peace Thomas, and I'm inviting you to join me and a vibrant community of literary enthusiasts dedicated to protecting and celebrating our stories. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audiobooks while commuting or running errands, for those who find themselves seeking solace, wisdom, and refuge between the chapters. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our

culture. Together, we'll dissect classics and contemporary works while uncovering the stories of the brilliant writers behind them. Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals.

You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. hinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real

people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. For a lot of people, at least, you know know when i worked at like smaller workplaces you know where it's like a small business where i know the owner the even if me and some other employees want to unionize the prospect is always kind of more weird or challenging because you know it's a smaller

business maybe it's like connected to like a larger you know larger overall industry you know like when i was like uh when i when i was like a parkour instructor, I had discussions with other employees about doing a parkour instructor's union type thing. But it's hard when there's not many of you or you know the owner. What would you say is good ways to at least get that conversation going among other employees?

And then similar examples from other stuff for people who deal with smaller workplaces that aren't a co-worker. They're not working for Amazon or anything. It's more like small local stuff. Right. So the most important basic building block of all this is one-on-one conversations. It's organizing. Right?

And even if you just work with three or four other people and maybe unionizing in a formal structure doesn't necessarily make sense or it seems like it might be too much of a headache you're still you know like a group of workers coming together is still a union doesn't matter what the nlrb has to say about it and you you have shared interests and shared challenges and there's things at work you probably want to change so even coming together and discussing that with your co-workers like there's no law that says you have to be in a union if you want to get some shit done you can march on your boss iww style and make them and demand a meeting you can make a petition you can do public pressure campaigns like all of the things well not all of them but a lot of the tools that we see organized labor engaging in and unions engaging in those are those are available to everyone else too it's easier if you're within that framework because you have that firepower behind you and you have maybe some legal protections.

But just as workers, you know, I guess it's more like the IWW solidarity unions and all that. We're like, we don't need to do no stinking badges. Like, we're a union because we say we're a union. We're going to take control of things in our own way. Like, you see this in um i'm trying to i think i what's it called diversity threads there's a there's a thrift shop in i think richmond virginia where workers just like they weren't being treated properly i think it was like a like a queer community space that wasn't living up to its values due to actions by

management and so they just put a letter on the door and said, we're not coming to work until you fix this. Here are our clear demands. Here's what we need. Here you go. Figure it out. Like, I don't think they're in a formal union, but they're acting collectively. And that's something that is totally available to everyone as long as you're in a workplace. If you're an independent contractor like me and probably some of you, that sucks and it's harder.

But you can always find your people and you can always, there's always options, right? Like you don't have to just join a union. You don't have to be a teamster to get shit done. Yeah, I think when you were saying that, I was going through my past experiences at places like that and I'm like, yeah, we kind of did do some of that stuff to varying degrees of success.

Sometimes it works out well, sometimes it doesn't work out so well. But yeah, I mean, there was definitely a while where we did definitely make some decent changes kind of based on that model. Yeah, it's kind of a shift in perception where like, you were just doing this because this is because you're a worker and like, we need to do this. But if you just take a step back and think of it as like, this is a labor action, we're a union of workers, like even just that little shift where it's like it's you know it's always us against them but what gets us as a little as a group as a collective against this manager against this exploitative practice i think that adds a

little bit of power and a little bit of energy because you realize you know i'm still i think maybe it makes you feel a little less alone. Yeah, absolutely. And, like, you know, concerted activity is a legally protective right, too. So, like, there are some bits and pieces of labor law that are useful in these situations, too, if you have a nerdy friend who would like to read about them for you. All right.

Well, I think that's going to do it for us here at It Could Happen Here. Until next time, remember, fuck it, organize. And where can people find Kim Kelly online if we want to send angry tweets? Oh, well, just try me, buddy. I'm at GrimKim because my college radio DJ name will never die. And if you are thus inclined, you can preorder my book, Bite Like Hell, The Untold History of American Labor, on the internet.

Hopefully not Amazon. Hopefully not. Yeah. I mean, if you do, thank you, but there's other places that are better. Do you want people to send you a bunch of random knives, Kim? Knives? I mean, I wouldn't. We send you a bunch of random knives, Kim? Knives? I mean, I wouldn't. We've had a lot of luck with that in the past.

I like knives. I like skincare. I like loose-leaf tea. I contain multitudes, really. Send Kim a loose-leaf tea skincare knife. One of those exfoliating knives with a tea infuser in the hilt. Wow, that sounds great. Somebody make that product.

That sounds like the next Behind the Bastards merch. Yeah. The tea knife. Yeah, we'll put that out after we get finished. We've got a very exciting Black Friday product this year, which is a male-to-male light socket adapter. People say you shouldn't do it. They say it causes electrocution and fires and death, and I think those people are cucks.

Buy our male-to-male adapter. Show the woke establishment that you won't be chained. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of fright.

An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Lord of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Join hosts Gabe Gonzalez and Chris Patterson Rosso as they explore queer sex, cruising, relationships, and culture in the

new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida.

And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.