It Could Happen Here - Sudden Cardiac Arrests in Young Athletes

Episode Date: August 8, 2023

James talks to @glenpyle about sudden cardiac arrests in young athletes, what science can tell us about them, and why they’ve become a hot topic for anti vax conspiracies.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You should probably keep your lights on for

Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of right. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. and culture in the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. New episodes every Thursday. Hi, everyone. It's me, James, today, and I'm joined by Glenn Pyle who's a professor of molecular cardiology and a member of the Impart Network at Dalhousie Medicine. Glenn, thank you so much

for joining us. Is there anything I missed out first of all on your bio there that might be relevant for people? No, I think that's it short and sweet. We don't need all the details. Thank you. So what we're here to talk about today is the phenomenon, I suppose, of sudden cardiac arrest, specifically in young people and young athletes, because as many of you will have been aware, this has been increasingly an area in which anti-vaxxers and conspiracy theorists have been trying to leverage what is an unfortunate but not unprecedented cardiac arrest. In this case, most recently, Bronnie James, but it's happened before in a number of sports. And they've been trying to leverage this as quote, unquote, like proof or

evidence that vaccines are killing otherwise healthy young people, which is nonsense. And I can tell you it's nonsense, but someone who can tell you from much more informed perspective is glenn so glenn could we start out by maybe talking about like how common this sudden cardiac arrest in in young athletes is and what we might what hypotheses we might have as to what causes it sure well i mean first of all if we look more broadly it's it's very common. I'm from Canada, and we have about 35,000 of these every year. Within young athletes, the data out of the US says that about 2,000 die every year from sudden cardiac arrest, and two-thirds of these young people do so during some sort of exercise or sporting event. So, in the grand scheme of things, when you have a country of several hundred million people, a thousand or so, that's like that is

by proportion relatively small, but we've known about this for a long time. And these numbers actually really haven't changed very much in decades. Okay. So yeah, there's obviously been no particular increase due to COVID vaccinations because they're unrelated. I wonder actually, is there evidence, I think I've read some stuff that having COVID or having had COVID multiple times might increase your risk for cardiac arrest. Is that true? Yeah. So broadly, so they haven't looked specifically at cardiac arrest because cardiac arrest typically is a lot of times the end result of a number of different conditions. So cardiac arrhythmias are known to be increased.

A Paton study showed that, what, I guess a year and a half ago by now, certainly early in the pandemic, one of the first signs we were seeing people who were being infected were having heart attacks, developing heart failure. These things end in cardiac arrest. The most common cause for cardiac arrhythmias, the Baton study showed, and every time I talk about this, I have to go back and look because the increase was several hundred fold after COVID. And so, I've never really seen anything like that before. So, arrhythmias are relatively common in terms in the world of cardiovascular disease. And the fact that COVID, the infection actually increases it, but the vaccines do not, means that the risk for sudden cardiac death really would be highest amongst those who are infected, not those who get vaccines. Okay. Do you know offhand if, like,

when we have that, maybe this was too early in the pandemic to tell, like, that risk that comes with having COVID, right, for having arrhythmia afterwards, is that risk mitigated by if you're vaccinated and then you get COVID? So, yes, there's been some more recent studies because obviously early in the pandemic when we didn't have the vaccine, we couldn't answer that. And then early after vaccines, we're looking at things like infections. And some of these cardiac issues may not arise until even after the infection is cleared. So, we see that in people with long COVID, for example, cardiac issues are most common. And so, we've seen in some recent studies that people who are, and even what they described as partially vaccinated, so one or two doses, had a reduced risk of what we call MACE, which is a major adverse cardiovascular event.

And so that's an all-encompassing term, which would be things like stroke, heart attack, things like those major cardiac events. That's data that's come out earlier earlier this year within the last year a couple of studies okay so circling back to those cardiac arrests and i guess brought more broadly like cardiac issues in young people and specifically young athletes it's something i'm familiar with with a background in cycling like I've known people die of cardiac arrest who are otherwise extremely fit. I wouldn't necessarily say like, sometimes being fit and being healthy

are not the same thing. Certainly at the very like pointy end of endurance sport, I think the fittest people are not necessarily the healthiest, but very fit, sometimes very healthy people, friends of mine have had these issues. Is in those cases, I don't know, we might not know, I don't know, is being an athlete like increasing someone's chance of having those cardiac

arrests, or is it that they have some kind of pre-existing condition that's just been underlying for a while? Yeah, that's a good question. What we do know, and this is all data from pre-COVID, so it's not something that's been impacted by the pandemic or vaccines. We do know that the rate of sudden cardiac death in the general population is about one in 100,000, and that in athletes, which is a very broad term, and we can get into that, how to define an athlete and things like that, is anywhere from two to four times the rate. That's groups of athletes.

Subsections are actually higher. So we know the rate is higher in these athletes, typically these high-performance athletes. You know why that is? It's an interesting question. athletes. You know why that is? It's an interesting question. It could be the training, for example, puts a stressor on them. So, they may have a pre-existing condition. They may have a cardiac arrhythmia like long QT syndrome or even something called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Sometimes they know about it and sometimes they don't. And then the training on top is enough of a trigger. So, one of the examples I use in my class is Anthony Van Loo's, a soccer

player, I believe it was in the Netherlands he was playing. He had a known cardiovascular condition. So, he had what's called an ICD or an implanted cardio defibrillator while he was playing and he suffered sudden cardiac death on the on the field there's actually video of it and that shocked him back into rhythm so you know some of these people may not know and discover in the course of training and some may know and opt to take that risk anyway and then it's the training that or the competition that brings it out yeah okay yeah yeah i have a very good friend with a icd um it's certainly been at the end of a very difficult process for him to have that and that involved lots of lifestyle changes and so when we let's what exactly is an athlete in these studies like is that somebody goes to

gym twice a week is it someone putting in 20 hours on the bike? Like, what? So most of the studies that we're talking about, so I assume we're not talking about the people who are claiming that the vaccines are linked to athletes because they have a very different definition. I can talk about that. Most of these studies that we're dealing with

where we get these rates that are two to four times higher than the general population or what they refer to as competitive athletes. So for people in the US, these would be your NCAA or college athletes. Some of them are professional athletes, soccer players in the British League and things like that so these are people who play at a at a competitive level oftentimes they're they're making a living i mean you can argue whether college athletes are making a living out of this but there's there's some high level of competition in these athletes that's generally the people that were that these studies are based on not the guy who goes to the gym twice a week or something like that. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So fairly elite. And what is it that you were saying that's different from

the claims that these anti-vax people or vaccine skeptics or whatever, you know, people who want to say that vaccines are killing people, which isn't true. What, what sort of the definition that they're using or what's the claim that they're making, I guess. Well, um, they really don't have a definition is the problem. So they'll use the term athletes. And I think most people, maybe you don't see an athlete as necessarily being a college or professional level. It could be like a high school athlete who's competing once or twice a week or whatever. And that's fair. But when you look at the lists that they have, I mean, I've talked about this recently in the Died Suddenly movie, documentary,

whatever you want to call it. The list of people that they have on there, for example, they have musicians, they have a Thai princess on there, so a princess from Thailand on there. And they also have people who died of cancer, someone who got an eye injury. So I'm not really sure, first of all, what their definition of athlete is. I'm not sure what their definition of sudden cardiac death is when you have people dying of cancer or suffering an eye injury. Those are not related at at all there was an earlier um list i think it's related to the good science thing i wrote about this uh probably a year or so ago i went through the list of people that they had on at the time there was about a hundred just a

little over 100 people that they claimed died there were uh soccer referees on there there were retired athletes. There were people, one guy was out for a hike. He was listed there. Now you could argue a soccer referee is athletic, certainly running around the pitch and doing that. I could see that. But that person died at home in their sleep, not in competition. The retired soccer player had been retired for six or seven years.

So even in the cases where they have athletes, they're really stretching what we would define as an athlete. Right, yeah. I wonder, is there data to show that overall mortality is lower in people who are vaccinated than unvaccinated? Does that exist yet? Yeah, so that's what some of these studies that i talked about um that were done um earlier this this year there was a it was a jack study the general american college of cardiology showed that even people who are partially

vaccinated there's a reduction in these cardiovascular complications. And the JAMA study, which was done earlier, specifically focused on AMI, so the heart attacks, acute myocardial infarctions, and stroke, also lower risk. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going.

That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time.

Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of Michael Duda Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot.

Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it.

It's the one with the green guy on it. You were saying earlier that there might be some sports that had even higher rates than those ones you mentioned overall for athletes. What sports are those? Yeah, so the one that's been raised recently is basketball. They were, at least in some of these studies done in the US, much higher than other sports. Yeah. So, I mean, basketball can be an aerobic event in that you're running back and forth up and down the court quite frequently, but it's punctuated by these bursts of sprints and things like that, which some have speculated that might kind of be the issue right that you don't settle into just a simple rhythm i'll say

simple rhythm like you know like riding a bike is it's not it's obviously simple as um as you describe it um but at least potentially there there's periods of time when you can sort of get into a rhythm and stay there. And here it's rest periods punctuated by these rapid bursts. And so there's the possibility that that may be related there. Okay. And so that might be why that there are higher death rates there. It's possible.

Yeah. They're not sure why these things happen to specific sports. Okay. Are our friends in the anti-vax community sure in their own minds why these things happen to specific sports okay are our friends in the anti-vax community sure uh in their own minds why these happen like do they have some kind of hypothesis they're advancing uh no so that's a good point um they'll say it's the spike protein uh i'm sure i've heard that raised before um but they don't really explain beyond that. It's interesting about the spike protein in the vaccines is it's been modified to not be active. And so you have the spike protein in the virus,

which causes injury, and yet they don't seem to acknowledge that that could cause these issues. And yet the spike protein in the vaccine, which has been designed to limit that injury, somehow overcomes that and actually causes the injury that's not associated with the infection. Like, none of it makes sense, right? You have to live in these parallel worlds that don't don't ever mix

right yeah so they yeah they're suggesting that this protein which is a modified version of the one that's already in the virus but it's non-harmful whereas one of the viruses harmful is harmful because of the modification yeah certainly a good number of people who don't like the vaccines also claim that COVID itself is really not much of a threat. And so again, I don't see how they can reconcile these points, right? Especially when you're arguing about the same protein, one of which has been modified to be less active. And yet you're saying the less active one is actually more dangerous. It just doesn't make any sense right yeah and i think it's kind of not uh i don't know i think people maybe come to it with a with a sort of predetermined desire to conclude that the vaccine is dangerous and

i wonder like i'm familiar with the sudden cardiac death from my time cycling and i remember in the early 2000s there was this idea that um people were dying because their blood had turned like quote i'm quoting from like newspaper articles at the time to treacle and had become so thick that their heart couldn't pump it anymore um and and that this was causing people to die and the reason that they died was because they were taking excessive amounts of blood boosters like EPO, or exogenous EPO. And so this wasn't true, at least to my knowledge. I don't think any of these people had tested positive. None of them had autopsies that suggested that this is why they had died. But it seems to me that there's this natural desire to try and explain away these deaths of what people who are at the peak of their physical lives right people in their in their teens and

twenties are extremely fit who we can see doing amazing things and doesn't sort of line up for us when they die it doesn't line up with what we think a healthy person is and what we think a cardiac patient is um and And so it seems to me that we create these explanations. Is that something you've seen in other areas before the COVID vaccine? Were there other sort of conspiracies or just ways to try and explain this away? I don't know about conspiracy. I mean, I think people understandably have a hard time reconciling what you just said, right? You have elite cyclists or whatever sport it is. I mean, cycling is good because aerobically they have to be very fit and then they die

potentially of a cardiac condition, right? So that makes no sense. So the easiest thing, like you said, is to play, well, they must be doping, they must be taking steroids, something that's going to harm your body. And so that has to be the explanation because it's easy. That's a simple way to get to this. The reality is that a good number of these people have underlying cardiac conditions. I don't necessarily mean a lot of cyclists have that.

conditions, I don't necessarily mean a lot of cyclists have that. What I mean is the people who have these sudden cardiac deaths have undiagnosed cardiac conditions, long QT, there's a condition called CPVT, something like that. And so they're relatively, I'll say benign. CPVT isn't necessarily, but it's triggered. These things are triggered by stressful events like exercise and things like that. And so they may live a good part of their life to be in our seemingly good health. And then the first sign for many of these people is death. That's the real challenge in dealing with these cases that lead to sudden cardiac death, because that's the first symptom. People don't feel tired. They don't have chest pains like having a heart attack or anything like that. It's simply something happens, the wiring goes off in

the heart, and you put the exercise on top of it, and they die. It's not just these athletes, you'll have somebody who has a change in one of their genes. They're perfectly fine. They live into their 60s and then they suddenly die. Well, what allowed them to live 60 years with, you know, no symptoms? We don't really know, but it's not uncommon that the first symptom is death in these people. So your friends there who, you know, it's easiest to accuse them of doping because certainly a lot of us talked about it at the time,

as I'm sure you knew about it. There's no secret. So we connect those dots, right? We can see that. We can see that. Let's connect them. We can't see long QT. We don't know what long QT syndrome is for a lot of people. It's't see long qt so we don't know what long qt

syndrome is for a lot of people it's hard to make that connection when you don't know yeah and it's hard from the perspective of being someone's friend or i can only imagine what it's like for their families to have this like uh i guess them be sort of liable after they die um you know or sort of accused of something that they may or in many cases i don't think did do it must be very difficult to deal with that on top of losing someone you love yeah well and and we're seeing that again here with the the people who oppose the vaccines which is either they're assuming things or they're speculating on on things and you know unless you're in the circle of care, you don't know what's going on. So, you know, you talked about LeBron James on here, you know, does he have an underlying

condition? We don't know. And, you know, it's really not helpful for me to sit here and say, well, he could have long QT, he could have CPVT, like here, you know, to speculate like that. Yeah. could have CPVT, like here, you know, to speculate like that. I can talk about what are some things that lead to these conditions generally in people, but I don't know anything about his health. And so it's not helpful for me to sit here and speculate on that while his family and he himself is trying to, you know, sort of get through that. That's, you know, I'm sure that's upsetting for them. So I'm not sure why people feel the need to to do that except to advance their own agenda right yes yeah i think that is the case so let's talk a little bit about how we can i guess mitigate these risks and that exist

i remember when i remember when you're getting a license in spain um and they make you take a cardiac stress test there like you get you ride your bike on a treadmill and they just ramp it up until your heart rate's in the 190s or whatever. And I don't know what they were doing, but they made us, I think that may only have been for like elite athletes, but they made us all do that. Is that something where, if there was an underlying, one of these underlying risk factors that you mentioned, would it be spotted on a test like that? Yeah, that's a little bit of a controversial area.

So I noticed you said in Spain. In Europe, the consensus is that athletes need to go through these, what we call pre-screening ECGs. So you probably had electrodes on your body. And so that's a simple non-invasive test. And so you're right. Because some things you can pick up just at rest. But some of these things don't appear until you stress the individual.

And so they'll look for rhythm problems. The other test is what we call echocardiography, which is basically an ultrasound of the heart. The other test is what we call echocardiography, which is basically an ultrasound of the heart. And there you can look at function, but you can also look at structure because there's a condition called hypertrophic cardiomyopathy that's relatively common in athletes. It's more common there, and that accounts for about 50% of these sudden cardiac deaths. And so you can pick that up on an ECG, but you can also pick it up using ultrasound. So if you scan the heart, you see that it's very large. That would be a diagnosis. So first, in Europe, they do that. In North America and Canada and the United States, they do not. The concern is, there's a couple of concerns. is is the price um so you can you're screening large

numbers of athletes to pick out a relative small number um who may be affected that's crude but that is an argument that people make so i guess the question comes down to how much is life worth to you and how much you want to spend so there there is that. But there is another issue, which is what they call false positives. So had you been diagnosed as having a condition, then you maybe pulled out of training for a little while while they do more tests and stuff like that. That can be very stressful on you. And so the view in North America is there's an unacceptably high number of those false positives. And so they feel that it's not worth doing. The other issue, so I'm not sure, when did you do this screening? Was it like 20 years or?

No, 10 years ago, probably like 2010, 2011. Yeah. So one of the issues that we have is when you have these high-performance athletes, their hearts change. They get bigger. They get more efficient. Their rhythms change. And they have conditions that we would pick up on ECGs and echo that would be considered pathological, right? pathological, right? But because they're athletes, these are changes that do occur in athletes as their heart is remodeled, and they're not a sign of disease, right? If you took someone who wasn't highly fit and had... So, for example, if you screen someone's heart and you saw that it was very large and they didn't exercise, you might be concerned. But if you're an elite cyclist where your heart gets very big, it's going to be bigger. And so, what we have struggled with for a number of years is what is

normal in the athlete that would be considered abnormal in the general population. Italy has done a really good job on this. So, going back into the 1980s, they started to collect data because that's what we need, right? We need data from athletes. And they created a huge database, which I actually use in my class now to teach and say, you know, if you have an athlete and you see these things, these are things we wouldn't be concerned about. Or here's some markers where we might be concerned. And so, we have to look further. And then here's some things where it doesn't matter whether you're an athlete or someone who sits on their couch all day, that's a problem. But without that data, we didn't have that ability.

And so I think the last time is 2018, the Europeans updated their criteria. Each time they update it, we add new things or modify things that are in there. So you would have had abnormal things you may have had abnormal things on your ecg that the cardiologist would have looked at and said well according to our athlete standards that's okay and we're going to ignore it and and we didn't have that until relatively recently okay yeah i do remember like things

like having a resting heart rate which would would be considered pathologically or dangerously low. So with the thing I would get a lot. Yeah, bradycardia. So it's called bradycardia. It's obviously very common, right? And so I give an example in my class every year where you have an athlete, their heart rate can be 40 beats per minute.

And so I said, you would ignore that. You go, well, they're an elite cyclist. I get that. And I give an example where it's a woman, she's 63 years old, her resting heart rate is 42 beats a minute. She doesn't do any exercise. And the physicians are like, oh, she must be very healthy. I'm like, no, that's not normal. And so it turned out, so the reason they flagged her was because she kept passing out because she was bradycardic and she eventually broke her nose and was sent to the hospital they did a genetic test and found that she had a cardiac arrhythmia right um it's so my what i always teach my students is

don't just look at the monitor look at your patient right so when your heart rate's 40 beats a minute and they're cycling away and you you know, doing all these, he's like, yeah, that person's very fit. And I was like, when you look and they're 80 years old and they're passing out, 40 beats a minute is not normal. And so we don't need real high standards for some of these things, but some of them we did. Yeah. And I wonder like people listening probably be sufficiently afraid now, but, or not, hopefully not too afraid, but lots of people these days are monitoring their heart rate all the time. They have watches, they have wristbands.

When they're exercising, they have chest bands. You can monitor your heart rate all kinds of places these days. You can wear a ring. Would any of those devices be useful in predicting or seeing some of these things? Not really. Only because they're very limited. So it's great people measure their heart rate because it is a general sign of health.

And so a lower resting heart rate is very good. And when you're exercising, you want to bring your heart rate into certain zones to have effective work. So that's all great. So I'm not trying to discourage people from doing that. But if you want to diagnose long QT syndrome, for example, in somebody, that requires calculations. So for sure, you need to measure things very accurately. I'm sure when you had your traits done, you would have had multiple electrodes stuck on your

body. Yeah, we typically do what's called a 12 lead ECG. And so there's multiple electrodes and they have to be positioned in certain places in order to measure how the heart, basically the heart's electricity is flowing in certain directions because that actually tells us something. So when you have, I mean, I have a device that I use to teach and to illustrate people. It's on the back of my cell phone and they could just, you know, you put your fingers on it and you can measure things and you get an ECG off that.

And so it looks really neat and it's great for teaching, but I'm not going to diagnose somebody with Bergara syndrome or long QT or any of those, those things. Those are much more in-depth. It's required much more in-depth equipment to do something like that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Like sometimes when you ride under electricity pylons, you'll see a heart rate of 240 and it will be concerning. yeah okay didn't work out what was connected to it um so if these things are occurring and obviously they occur it's sort of at a certain percentage of young athletes and

certain percentage anywhere else are there ways that these sudden cardiac arrests, we could reduce the number of them that result in death? Yeah, no, for sure. So CPR, the people who die quite often die because there's nobody there to administer CPR. And so you lose that very valuable time. And so people are concerned about, you know, stepping in and doing something and potentially hurting someone. If someone is dead like that, you're not going to hurt them.

Right. So, you know, please learn CPR. It's not difficult. They can certainly do that. I know in Canada, about.

10 years ago. Now the Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada, um, raised a tremendous amount of money to put, we call automatic external defibrillators or AEDs in public places. I think they put 15,000 of them, uh, plus companies will, will buy them for their, uh, their workplaces and things like that. And so if someone goes down and their heart stops, you take these things out. There's some patches. It comes with instructions. It will tell you actually what to do. And you take it out, you put the patches on the individual, you step back because it will deliver a shock and it will automatically shock their heart

trying to get it back into rhythm. So knowing where those are, I'll say knowing how to do them, you don't necessarily need to practice because it will walk you through it, but at least knowing where they are and not being afraid to use them, I think is very important. These quick reactions and administering care before the paramedics or someone else gets there is super important. If you let someone go five, 10 minutes without any CPR or anything like that, there's a tremendous amount of damage that's done and can't be overcome. Okay. Yeah. And I think a lot of places in the US, certainly you can access free CPR, AED training, or your

employer might pay for it. Do you know any resources people could use to find where they can find that free training? So in the States, the American Heart Association would be a good place to go. The American Red Cross, I'm sure they'll have resources. And Canada's Heart and Stroke Foundation of Canada, St. John's Ambulance. But like you said, a lot of just local community centers will put these things on a couple times a year, just so that people are familiar with how to do it. Workplaces will sometimes do it once or twice a year, have training, a lot of people to

just learn how to do it. I'm not sure where people, if you just go on the internet and wherever you are and look for first aid, a lot of times it falls under first aid, but if you just Google your city and CPR, I'm sure something will come up and I bet there's something this month you could go to. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. We've spoken before about stop the bleed courses and how they're also free and easy to access so people could do both of those to be really set up to help people hey guys i'm kate max you might know me from my popular online series the running interview show where i run with celebrities athletes entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about.

It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the

conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America.

From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters, to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Duda Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating.

I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend, and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails.

I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. Glenn, is there anything else you think people ought to know about these sudden cardiac arrest, either sort of with the conspiracy theories around them or anything else they can do to protect themselves or other people? Well, I think there's the perception that by saying that there's not an issue, that it means we don't care. In fact, we do care

about these issues. Like I said, I've taught about this for over a decade. I have a background in doing some sports medicine work a long time ago. I certainly have a strong interest in helping these people. When we say the risk is not going up, it doesn't mean that we don't care. And so, when a soccer player or a football player or somebody goes down on the court, do we just say, well, yeah, it happens? That's not what we're saying. We're saying we know these things happen. We do care about them. I would actually flip this around the other way and say, some of these people, the people who I'm talking about, the people who are profiting off this, not people who are like, I had no idea this was happening. That's okay. Not everybody can know everything. But the people who are saying this is increasing and they're making money off these things by selling their movies and whatever. selling their movies and whatever. Did you not care when someone died in 2015? Because they were in 2019, they were dying and kids were doing it. And if you'd like to come to my class, I can show

you the pictures of these people because you weren't around then. And I'm wondering, I'm not really wondering why you're around now. I know why they they're around now they're they're profiting off this um and so i would actually flip it the other way and say you know have them ask ask them why is this new to them when when we've when the data show this has been happening all along right yeah and by encouraging people not to get vaccinated they're encouraging those people to place themselves at a higher risk for cardiac issues, right? For presumably a profit motive in some cases, which is, yeah, very sad. Glenn, where can people,

you do some excellent threads on Twitter, so people can learn a lot about heart stuff there. Is there anywhere else, or where would you prefer people to find you, I guess, online? Yeah, no, we do a lot of social media stuff. There's a lot of, I know people complain about Twitter. I complain about Twitter, but there's a lot of really good people on there

who present their information. You can just go on and look for those people there. What I would say is, how do you identify who are the good people who you can trust and stuff? It's the people who are able to be transparent with where they get their information. So when I say the vaccines reduce your risk of these major cardiovascular events, You know, the vaccines reduce your risk of these major cardiovascular events. I typically provide a study or something like that to show where I got that information. The people who are less trustworthy will say, you know, either go find it yourself because they don't know, or, well, I can see it. I know what's happening. A lot of these things are measurable, so we should be able to find those. A lot of us write on things I've written for the conversation, Science 2.0. Things will be there.

But social media is a good place to go because you can interact with people and you can ask those questions. Yeah. Yeah. You can reach out to me and see who I follow and who I interact with. If, if, if you're interested in that, you could take that as a good or a bad sign. However you want to take it.

What's your handle on Twitter? So my handle is Glenn, G L E N pile P Y L E. I'm also on the sky. I just joined that the other day. So nice. Congratulations. Yeah,

that's great. I think the last point you made is one that we should maybe pursue another episode on because the difference between anecdote and data and like, there is an increasing number, I think, of people doing things that look a lot like journal articles or a lot like studies that appear reviewed that are not in trying to kind

of leverage the credibility of that without um actually doing peer-reviewed science because stuff they're doing wouldn't line up with with peer-reviewed science so it'd be interesting to discuss that right yes yes it was a whole episode today yeah yeah next time okay well thank you so much for your time, Ken. Thanks very much, James. I appreciate it. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. that's what my podcast post run high is all about it's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories their journeys and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together

listen to post run high on the iheart Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of right. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturno on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons? Hit play on the sex-positive and deeply entertaining podcast

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