It Could Happen Here - The Case of Heath Stocks

Episode Date: December 3, 2021

We discuss the case of Heath Stocks with Attorney, Michael Kaiser. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech

brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit.

The podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners, for those who listen to audio books while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect podcast network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Welcome back to It Could Happen Here, a show about how things are falling apart, or at least generally a show about how things are falling apart, and how to, you know, maybe not fall apart that much. But we have a little bit of a different episode for you today. A friend of a friend of mine reached out to me recently in the wake of a pair of episodes we did for Behind the Bastards on sexual abuse within the

Boy Scouts of America, which was, if you're not aware, an endemic problem with more than 100,000 victims having come forward in the last year alone. And this is a case that kind of ties into that. It's the case of a young man who committed murder and a young man who was also a victim of a terrible series of crimes. So I wanted to kind of shine a little bit of light on the case of Heath Stocks today. And to help me do that is Mr. Michael Kaiser. Michael, welcome to the show. Good afternoon. Thanks for having me. Michael, would you like to introduce kind of your affiliation with this case before we go over the broad strokes of it? Sure. Again, my name is Michael Kaiser. I'm a criminal defense

attorney with the Lassiter and Cassinelli firm in Little Rock, Arkansas. This case started in the 90s and I was I'm 32, so I was not practicing then. I came into this case in the last two years after Heath has already been sentenced to three life sentences. to three life sentences, and I assisted him in filing a petition for a commutation asking for the governor of Arkansas to reduce those sentences to a term of years and giving him a chance of parole while he is still alive. And can we, let's go over kind of what happened in this case, the basics, because this is a really sad story. And it's one of those things where there's not a lot of, I think, easy answers. But yeah, let's talk about sort of the broad strokes of what happened, and then we can drill into what you're trying to achieve here. Sure. So the broad strokes are back in 1997 when Heath was a young man, just 20 years old, he was arrested and charged with killing his entire immediate family, both his mother, father, and his younger sister.

confessed, arrested, charged, and within, I believe, six months, had pleaded guilty to all three capital murders and received a sentence of life without parole for each one of those for a total of three life sentences. Shortly after he was convicted, it came to light that his longtime Boy Scout scoutmaster, Jack Walls, had been molesting Heath since he was around age 9 or 10, that it was a serial sort of abuse, that Heath was not the only one, that it was particularly brutal, and that his abuse didn't just involve sexual acts.

It was kind of a long-term, I hate to use the term brainwashing, but a lot of people have about what he did to those boys. Heath's is not the only life that was ruined. Heath's family is not the only family's lives who were ruined. But Heath's is unfortunately the most extreme case where he ultimately committed a crime against his family. We'll get into the circumstances in a second. I just wanted to add a little bit of clarification. The Scoutmaster, we're looking at between 100 and 150 victims, kind of conservatively,

based on what I've been reading? Yes. Yeah. And it's some of, I mean, so this guy, some of it's the stuff that you heard in a lot of these other cases. Some of it is very unique to this guy – some of it's the stuff that you heard in a lot of these other cases. Some of it is very unique to this guy. But he would basically – he would have people over – kids over camping on his land. He would take them shooting. He worked for an ammunition company.

He would molest them. He would also like purchase prostitutes for them. And it was this – I mean a lot of really – some of the worst abuse that I've read about in connection to any of these Boy Scout sexual abuse cases. It's pretty harrowing stuff when you read the stories of other kids who were kind of in the same position that Heath was. Yeah, unfortunately, you're correct. You're correct. It's, you know, every time you think this can't get worse or this case is so extreme that you find some other element that's more offensive, more appalling, more victims, more families ruined down the line even today, 30, 40 years, 50 years later. Yeah. So how does the, because I mean, one of the things about this is this is a pretty – the initial crime here is pretty horrific. And I think it's one of those things where it is hard to have a lot of sympathy for Heath until you kind of learn about what this guy – like his role in the crime. Because it was not just a case of a kid committing murder. the crime because it was not just a case of um you know a kid committing murder it was a case of a kid being um very deliberately pushed into committing murder and and potentially i think

the there's the allegations being made or that he was he directly uh helped with it as well yes um so you know at first glance yeah yeah, it looks really bad for Heath. But over the years, what we have learned is that what really happened is that Heath had been serially abused sexually, physically, emotionally, and otherwise by Jack for a period of 10 plus years. His mother discovers the abuse and discusses it with her pastor, another religious counselor, Heath informs Jack that his mother is aware, and Jack instructs Heath to do as he's been taught and to kill the problem. Jack was never convicted with anything associated with the death of the Stocks family. However, his first set of life sentences for the many assaults that he was convicted of,

when they were reversed, it was because the judge in that sentencing hearing said, you know, the death of the Stocks family is also on your hands. And because he hadn't been formally convicted of that, he actually had his original life sentences reversed. At resentencing, he got essentially the same sentence, multiple life sentences and additional years. But yes, there is a connection. It wasn't known at the time, or at least it wasn't publicized. And if it had been, I think the results of Heath's case would be very different. I don't think you and I would be speaking right now. Yeah. And it's, I mean, obviously like this is, this is, this is a thoroughly horrible situation. And when somebody commits three murders, I think even people who are very critical of the criminal justice system should agree that like something needs to be done. But I, it just seems so unfair to lock this kid up for his entire life without kind of and and acting as if this was just a thing he did on his own rather than kind of the result of a pretty

horrific i mean one of the most one of the most horrific patterns of of abuse and exploitation of a child that I can imagine. And I don't know what would actually help other than getting him into a situation where he's not spending the rest of his life in a prison cell. I don't know what the long term for him looks like in terms of rebuilding this guy's potential to have a life, but it certainly starts with him not spending the rest of that life in a jail cell. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me as the fire and dare enter? Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America.

From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app.

Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente. It's Honey German. And I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again. The podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture. Música, películas, and entertainment. With some of the biggest names in the game.

If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists,, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations

with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs

and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories.

Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists

to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people.

I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian, Elian. Elian, Elian. Elian, he looks so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the

question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The problem we've encountered with Heath's case is the parole board and many just even just people that encounter the case wonder why would he attack and kill, you know, his immediate family rather than his abuser. And in the 25 plus years or in the 25 years or so since this happened, I mean, juvenile, our understanding of the juvenile brain, neuropsychology in general, has come leaps and bounds. And so we know that a serially abused child has brain damage from really about the time that that starts happening.

And so in Heath's crazy world, and we do have this in our clemency application, we've had abuse specialists evaluate Heath and see how his actions conform to our current understanding, within the crazy world that he lived in, he actually was making, dare I say, the reasonable decision. So Jack had demonstrated numerous times over the years he has physical, sexual, and even control over Heath's life he can end it at any time he explicitly and implicitly threatens the boys all the time he's got weapons everywhere he's a Vietnam veteran he brings them out to his property shows them how to shoot shows them what he will do to those who you know go against him um so within Heath's world, he actually made a somewhat reasonable decision. The bigger threat

was Jack. He can't kill Jack, so he has to do the thing to appease Jack to avoid the more severe abuse. That's oversimplifying it, but that's something that I don't think we would have been able to conceptualize back in the 90s. You add the element of it's male on male, and we're talking about a very small rural community in central Arkansas, and that element cannot be overlooked at all as well. That was a huge thing that Jack was counting on to keep these boys silent. He explicitly told them, if you tell what happened to you, they're going to think that you are homosexual and a liar. So there's just so many horrible things in this case. Jack had decades of experience doing this, and unfortunately, because of his position in the community, the son of a prominent

judge, the longtime scoutmaster, the community's man of the year multiple times. He had access to dozens and dozens of boys, in fact, entire generations of these boys in Lono County. Heath's case is just one of many. Unfortunately, it's the most extreme case, and it kind of tests the bounds of our mercy but uh the kid that discovered jack uh while he's a hero ultimately he killed himself and he's not the only one so unfortunately the stocks family are not the only people who lost their lives and not the only people whose lives just like he's were completely destroyed by jack walls yeah and this is this is an important thing to understand because when

we're talking about kind of the the lingering impacts of childhood sexual abuse it can take a wide variety of forms and when we like but but it but it is important to understand that the the damage it can do goes so much further beyond like the physical damage done by the abuse like these are your your brain is still forming and growing when you're that young. And Heath, this is one manifestation of kind of what can happen at the more extreme end, admittedly,

as the result of like, this is why it's such a heinous crime to abuse a child in this way. And it's just, I don't know, like you're right. It tests the limit of people's capacity for, I don't know, forgiveness seems like the wrong word, but like clemency, you know, this again is a pretty heinous crime. But at the same time, I can't bring myself to think that what he endured leading up to this shouldn't have an impact on what happens to him afterwards,

right? Like it does reduce his complicity in this. And I just feel – it feels so wrong to say that like, well, he should spend the rest of his life behind bars. Like that's just not – I can't imagine anything could help. Like I can't imagine that could help in any way. Just writing this person off forever. I don't know. It just is, it's fucked. What are the next steps for y'all, for the defense team? So at this point, we've already filed a petition with the Arkansas

governor requesting a commutation. That's not a pardon. That's not something saying, say that Heath is innocent. We're asking the governor to modify his sentences to a term of years, 40 years in each case to be served concurrently. So in effect, one single sentence of 40 years. Can we do another 15? Yeah. Well, in Arkansas, you're actually, at the time he was convicted, he'd be parole eligible at 70%. That's 28 years. That's not a guarantee of parole. That is just what it means, parole eligibility.

That's what we've asked for. We think his institutional record speaks for itself. If and when he is a candidate for parole, he hopefully will make parole. He's done everything within his power to do so. will make parole. He's done everything within his power to do so. If this fails, it's right now, in Arkansas, it first goes to the parole board, who makes a non-binding recommendation to the governor. They have recommended that the governor deny it, which is unfortunate. But again, it's not binding. The governor now has, I believe, until February or March of 2022 to issue his decision. He has not yet. We have requested a sit down with the governor. I don't know if we'll actually sit

down with Governor Asa Hutchinson. We will sit down with his criminal justice coordinator. We're thankful and lucky to have the support of all of the remaining victims' family members. So both sides of Heath's family, we have extensive support. It wasn't – a lot of them had to work to get to this point. A lot of them had to understand the true impact of the abuse. But at this point, we have extensive support from both sides of his family. As far as we know, there are no objections to his commutation application from victims' family members. The only ones that there have been are from the sentencing judge, or from the sentencing

court. It's actually not the same judge and the sentencing or the prosecutor from that county. Again, a different person, but they felt the need to object. Should this fail, we will seek additional post-conviction remedies. In Arkansas, we have something called a petition for writ of ericorum nobis. You can file it. You have to ask the Supreme Court, hey, is it okay if I file a petition back in the trial court asking them to consider something that if we had known back in 1997 and 98 would have affected the outcome of the litigation? In this case, we would point to the, we've had Heath evaluated, and we'll point to that neuropsychological evaluation as new evidence. point to that neuropsychological evaluation as new evidence. We couldn't fully make a connection at the time between his abuse and the offense. To answer that question, why he killed his family rather than his abuser, we now can. And so that's what we're going to allege is that new evidence.

Whether the court will find that it is remains to be seen. When Heath tried this on his own about five years ago, the court denied it. He alleged the new evidence was the fact of the long-term sexual abuse of him by Jack Walls, and the court, in an opinion that really does not, you know, shows the lack of understanding of long-term juvenile sexual abuse, found that, well, no, you personally were aware of all of that in your own mind because it had happened to you. So that was not new evidence. And, I mean, we know that the average male who makes this sort of disclosure, it occurs deep into adulthood. into adulthood.

So it's just at every level of the system, even today, we're still feeling the effects of kind of that old school mentality about, about this. And it's unfortunate. Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows

Presented by I Heart and Sonorum An anthology of modern day horror stories Inspired by the legends of Latin America From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time.

Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep

getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. bringing you Gracias, Come Again, the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture,

musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo

actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. González wanted to go home

and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well.

Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We could talk about kind of the carceral state and this idea that like penalty is the way to respond to any kind of crime. But even if you believe that, even if you believe that like you have to punish people with incarceration when they commit crimes, he's done 25 years. Like that's – no one is discussing the possibility of heath not being punished for the

murder you know because it's he has been not just with time behind bars but with the fact that his family's gone the idea that the state could do anything that's worse to him than than the scout master did to be honest is kind of absurd in my head. But where, is there anything that like, I don't know, I'm trying to determine like what can be done to help in this situation. Is there any way people can actually help outside of like you and the team that's working to try and sit down with the governor? Yeah. I mean, public support is wonderful. The more people that are pointing out the problems in Heath's case and with his sentences and that are reaching out to the governor, the better we think our chances are.

several publicly accessible accounts, as does his criminal justice coordinator. Even just getting on Facebook and bringing it up, there's a Facebook account managed by one of Heath's friends in Florida called At Hope for Heathstocks. There's also a website. I think it's hopeforheathstocks.info. It's probably the most extensive trove of resources in this case. It has almost all original documents. It's where I still go to access things when I need them, even though I am his attorney. So there's a lot out there. There's a lot of ways to support the cause, even just telling other people about it. We do have a documentary in the works. I actually don't think it has a producer

at this point, but we're hopeful to have something out in early 2022 to make Keith, to make Jack, to make this case more of a household name. The hopes that, you know, if any sort of, you know, if there's more support out there, more pressure on the governor, it'll increase the odds that he'll do the right thing here. Yeah, I mean, this shouldn't be a political issue. This shouldn't be a left or a right thing. this is the result of of abuse and that should have an impact on the what we actually what's actually what our society actually does to this kid in the wake of the crime perhaps it's like foolish to hope for some sort of rationality in 2021 um as regards a case like this but i would hope that we could be rational about this and everyone agree yes this kid deserves something more than

what he's gotten um i don't know it's it's it's a bleak one though that's putting it lightly new york recent recently passed a law that kind of acknowledged kind of where you're at with it for victims of domestic or sexual abuse who then committed crimes that weren't necessarily during the course of that specific abuse. And it allowed people like Heath to apply for resentencing if they met certain statutory qualifications for things that mitigated their crime, didn't justify it, but that didn't come out originally.

Unfortunately, in Arkansas, we don't have a similar process. The only thing we have available is this clemency commutation process. And unfortunately, as you said, it should be apolitical, but it's not. It's explicitly political. The parole board are all appointees by our governor. The governor is an elected official. There's a reason we filed it in the last year of his last term in Arkansas. He is term limited.

So we're trying to get him at a point where he's as free from the politics to do what he actually thinks is correct. But to think that politics will be removed is, I mean, it never is. No, this is the United States in the 2020s. You know, politics is a factor here. And this is a deeply divisive case in the state and especially in Lono County. Well, it's hard. I can imagine it being hard to talk with people about just because, again, the nature of the crime is horrific. And so if you talk about like, well, we think this guy should have another chance at life.

And you're like, well, but he killed three people. He killed his sister. And yes, that is the case, but that's not the only thing going down here. And you just have to, I think if you're at all, even if you're not coming at this from kind of politically where I am in regarding the carceral state, you have to acknowledge that like, this does not erase Heath's crimes, but Heath's crimes were also the result of not just the Scoutmaster's abuse, but of a number of failures on a wide level in our society that allowed that abuse to occur. I feel like there's a lot of reasons why it behooves us to give this kid another chance. I don't know.

That doesn't make it easier to convince anyone else, but yeah. Well, how would this case play out if it happened today versus in 1997? Even in a more rural part of Arkansas, I think our understanding of several of the issues here has come so far that my hope is Heath would have received a term of years rather than being charged with capital murder. They originally were seeking the death penalty, and he made a deal for multiple life sentences. a victim of long-term sexual abuse, I would like to think that if this happened today, even in that county, what we're asking for is something close to what would happen. You would hope, yeah. I would hope. So that's why, again, we didn't ask for a pardon. We didn't ask, let him out today. We said, let him earn it.

Let him still feel the weight of what he has done, but give him that light at the end of the tunnel because there is no one in the Arkansas Department of Correction, even with the, there's just not a victim like him there. And there's not someone who could be an advocate for victims like him were he to be released. Yep. Well, all right, Michael, is there anything else you wanted to get into with this

or any other ways people might be able to help? Check out the website. Again, post on social media. The one thing I think we didn't focus on here is Heath himself. Heath is a deeply spiritual individual. He's someone who lives with this on his conscious almost every moment of the day. This is not someone who feels he's skated by by avoiding the death penalty. This is someone who has had to learn about trauma mostly on his own

because with those life sentences, he is ineligible for so many of the programs, of the scant programs and resources that we have in the Department of Correction because they don't give it to people who don't have parole dates. So he's had to do a lot of this on his own. He's come a remarkable way. He's still someone that needs probably extensive treatment and therapy to deal with his own trauma as well as to deal with the effects of what he did on himself. But he's a remarkable individual. He's a great self-advocate. I wish you could speak with him

as well. He's someone I'm proud to represent, not just that I do because I get paid. This is why I got into the practice of law is this type of case. He is not innocent, but he is not, he should not be bearing the full weight of what occurred while, you know, Jack is serving a life sentence. I think he should have one or two or three more for his role in this. I mean, Heath's youth and Heath's brain damage because of that sexual abuse should have and now should be considered, and we just hope the governor will. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully so.

And again, if you want to learn more, there's heathstocks.info. There's a lot of good about Jack Walls on there as well. And you can, there's a link to make a donation to Heath's Defense. All right. Well, Michael, thank you so much for coming on today. And I hope you have a good rest of your week. You as well. It Could Happen Here

is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories

inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by

an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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