It Could Happen Here - The Internationalists Fighting Fascism in Burma

Episode Date: February 3, 2025

James talks to Azad about the Anti-fascist Internationalist Front in Myanmar, Myanmar - Rojava solidarity, and the revolution in Chinland.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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every Wednesday on the Black Effect Podcast Network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. Hi, everyone, and welcome to the podcast. It's me, James, today and I am very lucky to be joined by Azad, who is fighting in Myanmar, in Chinland specifically, with the AIF. Welcome to the show, Azad. Thanks for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me on. Of course. Yeah, this has been a project that I've been following from afar for some time, maybe several

months now, I think. But for listeners who have not been following, can you explain very briefly the role of the AIF in the struggle in Myanmar? Yeah, sure. Getting right into it. Yeah. First, I'd like to give a little bit of a spiel about the context of the AIF. Maybe for people who aren't so familiar, in Burma, already for decades, there have been some kind of established precedent of, we can say foreign volunteers of some kind, or ex-military personnel, or somebody who is somehow drawn to the conflict.

There has already been the precedent for some decades of people coming in a very limited capacity and helping with this group or that group, but it mostly has been participation of two big characteristics. The first characteristic is that of course it's been an individual basis. Like whoever individual had this idea, they organized it themselves. They handled it themselves with the exception of like the free member rangers, but I wouldn't classify them as like, you know, foreign fighters or anything. They do very, very good work, but yeah, slightly different role.

Yeah. Yeah. The people who did this kind of stuff were mostly coming as individuals, uh, you know, kind of on their own prerogative. And secondly, they were overwhelmingly, we can say non-political or, you know, ex-military guys, uh, from from neighboring countries who were somehow drawn to the conflict and wanted to use their skills in that kind of light. The AIF, on the other hand, is absolutely by no means like the foreign fighter organization in Myanmar, or it's not like the foreign battalion, or that's also not what the goal and the mission is. It specifically came about after 2023, 2024, there were slowly more internationals in the country, internationalists we can say, who were here on a much more, albeit at the

beginning individual, it was the same where people were organizing their own ways, organizing their own routes and connections, but with a much more different perspective of this kind of more intentional anti-fascist internationalist perspective. Yeah. Which bled over into the name. So kind of as a result of discussions between me and some other people who were here, and also some other people outside the country, the idea to set up a formation or an organization like this was floated and of course after talking with like local partners and local comrades who anyway were involved with on the ground, there was a lot of explicitly consistent, yeah, to use a

polite word, consistent perspective for internationalism in Myanmar. That was kind of the goal. Yeah. And if people aren't familiar, it's the anti-fascist internationalist front, right? The AIF has a really cool logo with the peacock tail and the three arrows and the like the white star and a red background that I thought it was a, I really, I appreciate your logo. Yeah.

So yeah, I think people will like, when they talk about the conflict in Myanmar, they will be like, Oh, why are they, why is there not more internationalism? Why is there not more international volunteers? Something that you and I have spoken about before is that like, this has always been an international conflict, right? And it's always been an anti-fascist conflict as well. Do you want to explain that to people who, because I think sometimes it's easy for people to fall into these orientalist or somewhat colonialist constructions of the conflict there. And I think you and I both agree that those are not the length through which we should view it. Yeah.

I mean, of course the history of, let's just use a big term, the history of conflict in Burma is of course very deep and very complex and has a thousand different ethnic and political branches that you can go down. But if we're really focusing in on this post-coup situation, which even though it has its roots and its context in, of course, the pre-coup with, you know, the existing ethnic resistance organizations and the democracy movement, if we're really looking at the conflict post-2021 coup, fundamentally, it is not any one nation's struggle. It is not anyone's people's struggle. It is not even like a national struggle of Brno, we can say. It is fundamentally a fight against fascism. It is an anti-fascist people's revolution where after of course the coup and after these initial stages of protest and uprising, the people were faced by a choice of do we accept

dictatorship, do we go back and do we live like normal, do we accept fascism, do we live under fascism, or do we prepare to sacrifice everything to fight against fascism? And that was the fundamental calculation in that. So insofar as it's a fight against fascism, that makes it an internationalist struggle in itself. I mean without even you know going on too much about how anyways the so-called nation of Burma is dozens and dozens and dozens of different Ethnicities and religions and cultures which I mean if you aren't thinking in the traditional nation-state sense of internationalism and more thinking in the kind of Brotherhood of cultures and traditions then yeah, of course without the flashy, you know

Foreigners coming it's already an internationalist struggle against fascism. But I think on a more intentional level, the dictatorship represents fundamentally the same fascism that exists all over the world, fundamentally state oppression. So yeah, in that regard, it's very much an internationalist struggle. Yeah. And something we've spoken about before is the links of the inspiration, I guess, that comes from the internationalist struggle in North and East Syria in Rojava and seeing that this was a possibility, that this was something on the horizon that they could strive for. Do you want to explain your own perceptions of that and experience of it? Yeah, sure. Well, first, not to overstate things. While of course, Rojava is a big inspiration,

I think not just for the people here in Myanmar, but truly like a beacon of hope in general. Yeah. You know, a little biased having spent time in Rojava, as you also have. I think, how can we say? I'll give a bit of context. In 2023, I think this message went out from the KNDF to the forces in Rojava. And I was there at the time. So was I. Really, what? Yeah, yeah. I was there at the same, we were there. We were both there.

Yeah, at the same time, everyone started hitting me up for book recommendations. It's like October. I didn't know that. Yeah. Okay. Right after October 7th, I think. Okay.

Anyways, so yeah, when this came out, like some friends sent this to me and was like, hey, can you translate this? And I, like not only me when I saw it, but also all the friends in the leadership and, you know, all of the comrades there were like very one surprised, but also very excited and very happy to kind of see a message like this. And I think also when the message was returned, you know, some of the friends from the leadership, you know, recorded this video message and sent it back. It was very much like a very pleasant, happy surprise for everyone involved.

And it really showed the degree to which fundamentally we are fighting the same struggles, even though, you know, maybe, you know, materially, we're not talking about like guns going from one place to the other. Fundamentally we're comrades on the same very, very long frontline. Now, I think what that looks like locally, especially, I'm happy that you mentioned like specifically the women's situation. You know, I myself sometimes when I'm giving training here, I like to show videos from certain parts of Kurdistan where they're very effective, we can say.

And of course, that naturally includes like the very, very heavy participation of the women's guerrilla units as well as the men's guerrilla units. And specifically here in Myanmar, we see a very difficult situation in the revolution in regards to like the position of women. Where because of, I mean, it's a very new revolution. Lots of these people are, you know, a couple years ago, they were just in, we can say, liberal society. They weren't in any kind of, you know, maybe at best activist context, but it's not like these people had a strong revolutionary platform and then they said, okay, let's launch a revolution against the dictatorship. It was a natural evolution from protest to resistance to revolution, no? Yeah.

So because of that, the same social structures that existed in liberal society were in a large part transplanted into resistance organizations. Which means that yeah of course thousands and thousands of women from all over the country have traveled to these camps, you know, have prepared and have readied themselves to fight against the dictatorship, but in a lot of ways they're still facing off against the patriarchy that is inherent in all of our modern society. So I think Rojava in so much is like, I think anybody can take Rojava as an inspiration.

If there is anybody who more so than anybody else can take as an inspiration, it is women and youth, as that is of course the revolutionary focus of the entire paradigm of the Rojava Revolution. So I won't say that it's like, you know, like the leading inspiration for the people of Myanmar or something, but definitely the people who have interacted with it or interfaced with it in some capacity, be it official or unofficial, of course, have gotten a lot of inspiration from that. And us as internationalists, both me as well as some other people here, you know, having had that in-person experience with their Java revolution,

of course for us is eternal inspiration. Yeah. And it's a really beautiful thing to see, like you said, just to see people, like when we think about alliances in conflict, right? If we look at the extremely interactional way that the United States enters into those alliances, right? It's willing to allow the people of Rojava to die for it in the battle against ISIS or Daesh, but it's not willing to stand by them when they're being bombed by Turkey, right?

Something you and I have both seen. But to see something that instead begins with genuine solidarity and admiration. One thing I really liked was when the KNDF replied to the video that came from Rojava, they said that they still had a lot to learn, especially with regards to gender. And like, it's so rare to see revolutionary movements submitting their faults, especially during the struggle, right? During the moment of revolution. And that's something that I've been so impressed with in Myanmar for a long time is their willingness to like look out at the world and see things that they think are better and adopt them or to at least consider them. It's the thing in Rojava too, some of their, one of the friends

in Rojava said that they were excited to learn more about Myanmar because they hadn't worked everything out and that they thought that there might be some solutions that they could learn from there. And so it's really special to see that solidarity that comes from a very genuine place and not just, it's not just rhetorical. There are people such as yourself who have made the journey to fight on behalf of the revolution in Myanmar, but it's really a special thing. It's really a wonderful thing to see, especially like with the world seemingly

getting more and more isolated and more and more nationalist as opposed to internationalist, like it's a really beautiful time for it to happen too. Yeah, absolutely. And I think, I mean, not to make the podcast, you know, a democratic confederalism ideology lesson or something, But yeah, I think insofar as the revolution in Rojava considers itself a force on the side of democratic modernity, I think it's important to understand that they really mean it. Like they really do see the conflicts that we're facing today against the capitalist system, against capitalist modernity.

They really do see it in this all-encompassing light that even though something is happening all the way over here in Myanmar and that maybe you could only tangentially connect to what's happening over there, they really do believe it when they say we are comrades in this same struggle. And that's why the solidarity is so beautiful to see, because it's that real solidarity. It's not just like, you know, pandering to some internationalist kind of sentiment. Yeah, it's very real and it has a very genuine basis in sharing more than common interests, I get lost in the music.

I like to isolate each instrument. The rhythmic bass, the harmonies on the piano, the sticky melody. Hey, hey, hey, hey. Careful, babe. There's someone crossing the street. Sorry, I didn't see him there. If you feel different, you drive different. Don't drive high.

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In many ways, Chinland is where the revolution, the armed revolution began, right? So can you explain how we get to a place today where in recent weeks we've seen massive victories in Chinland? Yeah, so as you know, the political situation, at least between the groups, is somewhat complicated. So I'll try my best to like most fairly, but also somehow accurately describe. Yeah. I'll start from the history, we can say.

As you described in and around Mindat at the time of these protests, this was kind of like the catalyst and one of the first places that actual armed resistance to this dictatorship started. And that wasn't armed resistance like with guns or something, that was armed resistance like with the shotguns, like double-barrel shotguns from India, muzzle-loading traditional hunting rifles and air guns and things like this. And with that kind of weaponry, they were going and attacking police stations and checkpoints. So it really was a sign for everyone, like, not only the bravery of the people that are willing to do something like that, but the willingness and the risk that these people are able to take

and the seriousness of their opposition to the dictatorship that look, this isn't just a protest anymore. Even we have only sticks and stones, we will dismantle this dictatorship. Yeah. So yeah, that was a very inspiring early period. And I think even before the involvement of some of the bigger ethnic armed organizations, there were already local CDFs, which stands for Chintland Defense Force, which is kind of just like PDF. It's a moniker that a lot of groups share. There were a lot of different PDFs and CDF popping up just in the days following the coup in Chinland. So yeah, from the very beginning, there was the precedent and the history of revolution there. Now, these towns that were the beginning of the revolution have now been seized. So Mindat as of last month

was taken by the Qin Brotherhood Alliance as well as you know, CDF, Mindat and Alliance partners. So the progress has definitely been made. The current landscape looks a little bit like this in Qin State. There's two big blocks we can say. One block is the Qin Brotherhood and one block is the Qinland Council. At first, there was only one block called the ICNCC, which stands for Interim Qin National Coordinating Council or Committee. I always forget the last C. I have to remember it at the same time as you. And that was like the political big umbrella organization. And there was the CJDC, which is the military big umbrella organization.

That stands for Chin-Lin Joint Defense Councilor Committee. Again, last C, always ambiguous. So yeah, for a long time, it was everyone, including one of the very old ethnic resistance organizations, the CNA, CNF, the Chin National Army, Chin National Front, was kind of involved in this one big umbrella organization and everywhere there was resistance against dictatorship and on some level cooperation both with Chin groups as well as with the NUG. In 2023 political events occurred and as we can say politely a disagreement in the political future of Chinlund separated into two groups

with CNA, CNF withdrawing from the CJDC and forming their Chinlund Council. And the groups that kind of subscribed to that vision and subscribed to that path, they joined the new Chinlund Council. And all of the groups that remained in the CJDC and the ICNCC continued to hold on to the ICNCC as a kind of platform and umbrella organization for the people in Chin State that didn't want to subscribe to this new path. And then Chin Brotherhood was formed as the new practical military alliance of those people who remained, we can say. And since then, in only one year, I both sides have had have had very incredible victories no chin and council has been able to in the north of Chin State Liberate Sheikah and Tunzong town and then of course in the south of Chin State chin blue has been able to take my to be in Compelet and Minda so

Definitely victories all around but yeah, I'll stop myself before I comment too much more on that Yeah, but victories that would have been unimaginable three years, I mean, we're almost exactly three years from the beginning of the revolution. Four years, yeah, 2025, God. Yeah, yeah, four years from the beginning of the revolution. When as you say, like, those videos, that was when I first became aware of the post coup resistance, of seeing videos online of people with those traditional muzzle-loading hunting rifles, taking on police checkpoints or attempting to organize an arm

resistance and those little air guns with the, made of the blue plumbing pipe, like, it was incredible. Like just the bravery of the people and their commitment and their willingness to risk their lives and sometimes lose their lives. Because like, as one revolutionary doctor told me a few years ago, he said like, my grandparents died for democracy and my parents' generation died for it. And we don't think another generation should have to die for it. So like, we're all prepared to go down fighting for this, which I thought, you know, was really impactful.

And then he was right that their willingness to risk their lives and to be so brave is unparalleled and the revolution wouldn't have got to where it's got to. But it's such a beautiful thing that it has. I wonder like, it's a, it's a crucial time for the revolution now, right? Like the, the revolution is as successful as it's ever been. We're reaching the fifth year. Can you explain like the role of the AIF within the broader revolution? Cause I think people get really confused by all the acronyms and it can be easy to think that these groups, and it's an alphabet secret, I'm writing a

book about this and Spain and like I've spent most of the last week just trying to write the dictionary of acronyms that goes in the back of the book. But like, can you explain, these aren't groups that are necessarily sometimes they are opposed to each other, have different visions for the future, but can you explain the role of the AIF within the broad anti-hunter movement? Sure. First, I'll say I'm reading a book right now about like the history of the AIF within the broad anti-Hunter movement? Sure. First, I'll say I'm reading a book right now about the history of the Communist Party of Burma and that history goes from the 30s all the way to the 90s. And every single page has at least 10 different acronyms and it's absolutely insane.

Yeah. Anyway. Yeah, about the AIF, the Anti-Fascist Internationalist Front, which I'm hoping everyone just recognizes as AIF because it's kind of a mouthful. Our perspective so far has been that especially as foreigners, and especially as like foreign foreigners, you know, like Western foreigners. Yeah. We really want to avoid as much as possible the perception of we're coming here, you know, we've got military experience or we've got this knowledge or we've got that knowledge and now it's time, now it's time for us to tell you what to do or now it's time for us to train or something like that.

Yeah, I would say our perspective is much more closer to the perspective of the, you know, the international structures in Rojava. Our goal is recognizing that this enemy, the SAC dictatorship, the SAC junta, is fundamentally a fascist anti-human enemy, that makes it also our struggle. And so not in some kind of like presumptive way or not in some kind of like imposing way, but in a very genuine and organic manner, we want to come here and implement ourselves into the revolution. Now, we have some friends who are coming who maybe have previous experience with this or with that. And in their capacity, of course course they give training because the people here have, the

comrades have been overwhelmingly receptive to training like this. You know there's been no pride or no like oh we don't need the help. Yeah quite contrarily everyone at all stages even the NUG is saying, I'm not talking about us, I'm just talking about publicly you know to everyone is saying whatever help we can get, we appreciate it. But you know, we're not just bringing people who are, you know, Rojava veterans or veterans of some conflict where they can come and give training. Fundamentally, it's an anti-fascist conflict, which means even people without experience are able to come and not only participate in the revolution, but in a less transactory way, not to say like, oh I have something and I will give it to the

revolution. And the most important way is to come and to learn from the revolution. Exactly as you said, even a revolution like Rojava, which has decades and decades of history and tradition and culture and ideology and is steeped in this, yeah I would say, you know, one of the most powerful prominent revolutions of our time, is still able to say a revolution like this, of course, we can learn from it. We need to learn from the struggles of our comrades there. We need to learn from the developments happening in this revolution. Our perspective in AIF is very much the same, where, yeah, okay, maybe we have some limited material things we can contribute, but ultimately it's about organically participating in this

revolution which is against fascism, and in our own ways, to take the lessons of this we can contribute, but ultimately it's about organically participating in this revolution which is against fascism and in our own ways to take the lessons of this revolution, to take the fundamental meaning of this revolution and be able to translate it for ourselves and for, of course, the future works which are ahead of us, shall we say. Yeah. I remember when I was much, much younger talking to a veteran of the international group and anarchist veteran, no, it was from the international brigade, to correct myself.

And I asked him to explain anti-fascism to me. And he said that for him, like when someone devalues humanity, like the junta does in Burma, like the Francoist did in Spain, right? Like Assad did in Syria. It debases his own humanity and like anyone who attacks humanity in that way is attacking him and all humanity and therefore it's a responsibility of all humanity to defend humanity, to defend compassion and kindness. Absolutely.

Yeah, I think what you're doing in Myanmar is part of that desire to defend humanity against, inhumanity against whatever you would want to call it. What are the struggles that the revolution faces? Like I know you guys have recently been doing a fundraising campaign, for example. And the revolution is almost unique in its complete lack of solidarity from the states of the world, right? There is not a state that is backing this revolution. It is entirely the force of the people of Myanmar.

So can you explain some of the struggles within the revolution perhaps because of that? Yeah, I mean, as much as some people, you know, like to say CIA or something like this is involved. Yeah, They can fuck off. Of course, the reality is that I've heard the term crowdfunded revolution. I think it's incredibly accurate because in the AIF, we recently did a fundraiser for vehicles and equipment and things like this, but that's on our scale. On the scale of these organizations, I mean, they are fundraising from the diaspora millions and millions of dollars to be able to wage this resistance. And of course, even like local people who themselves maybe don't

have a lot are giving everything they can or are anyway acting anyway they can or doing anything they can to help the revolution. So we can say overwhelmingly it is a popular resistance. Even I would go so far as to say it is fundamentally a people's resistance against the dictatorship. That of course represents itself in a lot of different organizations, but these organizations enjoy the like 95% support of the people against the junta, you know? Yeah. So yeah, in that regard, the challenge of course is always resources and always the strength of the enemy. No, we're still going up against jet fighters, helicopters, mortars, artillery. Yeah.

You know, they have a lot of ammo, us not so much. So there's like lots of these practical problems. I think the, how can we say, cynical kind of as you mentioned earlier, Western outlook has been to paint this struggle kind of in, oh, it's a tribal struggle. There's all these different groups. They're all fighting for their own area. What's going to happen after they win?

Now, I disagree with that assessment. Obviously, I think, you know, yourself, as you're familiar with the conflict, I think it's much deeper than that. And even across these many different identities and cultures, there's very deep, very real coordination and cooperation where I don't think it's just like chaotic. But on the other hand, that is a, you know, not to give the the cynics credit, that is a question which going forward will politically very much be on the agenda. Because I mean, now as you're seeing, most of the country is no longer in the junta's control. Yeah. And the parts that are in

the junta's control are contested. And then you have the tiny sliver of land which they can say they somehow without any kind of, you know, contested control. So very soon the Onus will be on revolutionary forces to answer that question, okay, how are we going to consolidate? How are we going to transfer these wins on the battlefield into something that is more permanent and more lasting? these wins on the battlefield into something that is more permanent and more lasting. And I think, you know, already as you're seeing in Chin State that I can speak of and that people are seeing in elsewhere that I can't speak of because I don't know. There are definitely frictions, you know, I'm not going to say it's perfect. Everyone is smiling. Everyone is working together. And there's frictions that will have to be worked through. But fundamentally, I think the trajectory as it currently is, is, is positive for the resistance we can say.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we were talking to someone yesterday in another part of Myanmar and I was saying, you know, I'm going to come visit you hopefully soon. And, and, uh, he was saying like, oh, you'll love it. Like just to be in the liberated zone is so special. Talk to us about like liberated Chinland, right? MnDOT's just been liberated. Large areas that have been under the control of semi-control of a dictatorial

regime that has been extremely oppressive to the Chin people for decades. Like how are people receiving their liberty? How are they governing themselves or attempting to take care of one another in these liberated spaces. Sure. Well, I think the first thing I'll say is maybe to contrast to other parts of Myanmar, we've been relatively lucky in Chin State in that even, you know, for some years already, the junta, due to the mountainous nature of Chin State, has anyway been reduced to the cities for years. Like all of their checkpoints, all of their like

external places, the last of those were cleared in 2023 and most of them anyway in 2022 were gone. So by landmass, even before these towns were seized, the Junta controlled, if you were to add up all of the area that they actually physically control in Chin State, maybe a couple square kilometers, you know, just the area of like their bases and something like that. So because of the nature of Chin State, they never had the, of course they did these atrocities and massacres and things like this, but on the kind of like,

fascist dictatorship level of oppression, since after the revolution, they had not really had the opportunity to impose themselves too much. They were the ones kind of cowering in their corner. Yeah. But I think especially after these towns are being seized now, you know, take Rikodar, which is the border town on India, or take Mindanao, Marthupi, these

towns that have just been recently seized. These are towns which people are wanting to live their lives. I mean, Shinsead has always been autonomous, even in British rule, in colonial rule, it was just labeled as unadministered, you know? And there was a very rich democratic tradition, or how can we say, maybe not democratic in the traditional sense, but tradition of self-rule and autonomy in Chin State. And the removal of the junta from these areas is allowing those relationships to much more naturally flourish. And I think the aspiration of a lot of people, both abroad as well as internally displaced from Chin State,

is to return to those places where there's been fighting and to continue their lives as normal. Which I think finally, now that not just in Chin State, but all over the country, we're slowly seeing these alternative systems of, let's not call them like communist or revolutionary or anything, but fundamentally they are alternative to the state administration system. Yeah.

And I think that narrative that you pushed back on already that like, and we've seen it from so many, like every think tank, every analyst, every, every so-called expert has said the EROs will only fight for their territory when they've reached the limits of what they consider to be their ethnic homeland, they will stop. And that hasn't happened, right? It's not happened anywhere. But the fact that even if it did, right, or even if some of these EROs have visions for the future, which is not as liberatory as maybe you and I would like, the fact that

there are parts of Myanmar that are free now and that where people can live their lives as they wish will never change. And that will mean that those places are always there for people to go to. And like, I'm sure lots of people you're fighting with and alongside have come to Chinland, right? Like, not all of them will be, would have spent their whole lives there. They'll have come there from but my majority cities maybe. Is that correct? Look like not to give any specifics. So I'll just make a very broad term to exaggerate the fact.

You can say that I have met somebody from almost every single group in Myanmar. In Chin State. Yeah. Now that's just to say, that's not to like, you know, be shocking or something. That's just to highlight the level of interconnectedness Logistically materially militarily, you know, even if it's just someone sending someone to say hi from somewhere, you know Yeah, it's not like oh everyone's in their corners fighting I mean, I promise you there are soldiers here which are giving their lives for the towns in Chin State

Which maybe they never even thought about Chin State before this revolution, you know? They're coming from opposite sides of the country. Yeah, absolutely. It's fundamentally a fight against the dictatorship. It's not the fight to liberate Chinland or to liberate Kareni or something like this. Yeah. I remember speaking to Mandalay PDF a while ago and they were saying to me like, they were really scared when they first left the cities because they'd been told that like wild people lived in the mountains. Now we're wild people, we like the wild people. But yeah, this narrative, I mean, James C. Scott talks about this, right, in the art of not being governed, this idea that these mountains were never really places that were amenable to state control. And that

now they're places where people can go to avoid it. But it's also important that this revolution extends beyond the mountains and into the cities and that people living there don't have to live under the boot heel of a dictatorial state, which is what's happening, right? Yeah, absolutely. When I smoke weed, I get lost in the music. I like to isolate each instrument. The rhythmic bass, the harmonies on the piano, the sticky melody. Hey't drive high. It's dangerous and illegal everywhere.

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And then me too happen. And then everybody else want to get pissed off because the white said it was OK. Problem. My oldest daughter, her first day of ninth grade, and I called to ask how I was doing. She was like, oh, dad, all they were doing was talking about your thing in class.

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On the Black Effect podcast network. The iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast. you at Apple podcast or wherever you go to find your podcast. People will be listening to this, I'm sure. And like thinking this is laudable. This is incredible. And a, they'll be shocked that they haven't heard about this. Maybe, especially if they're newer listeners. And I do want to say that like, you can go back and listen to our

other coverage on Myanmar, there is a lot, but like in terms of conflicts, right? Conflict is always messy and war is never inherently a beautiful thing. Beautiful things can happen in wars, but we rarely see wars where there is so much good on one side and so much evil on the other. And why do you think that the, especially the Western media has largely overlooked the conflict in Myanmar? That's a good question. I will say just on a very base level, without getting into any kind of like, you know, pondering or something like that, I've spoken with a few journalists

and you know, before anything, before we even talk about politics or something, there is just the material calculation that these outlets are making. From what I understand, from what I have heard, people don't care. Now that's really unfortunate, but these big networks, you know, CNN, whatever, I have to make the calculation of the people they send and the risks to send them and the actual exposure

that these news articles will get. From what I understand, from conversations that I've had with some people that are involved in these networks, right now there is not, on the executive board level, there's just not a lot of push to cover Myanmar. And that's really unfortunate. And I think one really bad side effect of that is whenever there's a tragedy, the media is there.

Whenever there's some massacre or whenever there's some, you know, inter-tribal conflict or whenever there's something bad to report about, or maybe, you know, on a good day, the really big, like, a win, like in La Chio that we saw, you know? Yeah. Okay, yeah, for these big things, the Western media will be there. But I think even from recording these very, like, clickbaity, eye-catching things, it seems like they're not getting the exposure that they want to get out of this content, which is putting them off of covering the, you know, in our opinion, much more meaningful wall to wall content that exists, I mean, every day in Myanmar. It seems like this Western eye is only interested in the suffering we can say, which is really

unfortunate. But, you know, even if the media is not paying attention, we can say for better or worse, the governments are paying attention. Absolutely. I mean, almost like hawks, you can say, there are every single regional government, as well as foreign governments, of course, keeping a very close eye on the situation, circling, looking at developments. I mean, China especially, you know, being very involved in the process.

Yeah. So yeah, while unfortunately the kind of liberal media I is not so much, you know, giving Myanmar the coverage that it deserves as a popular revolution, the powers at be are definitely watching its progression, we can say. Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, it offers an alternative for the world, but like it's distinct even from Rojava, like the building of a revolutionary movement, like you said, the crowdfunded revolution, the revolution that like entirely, I mean, at points armed itself using guns it downloaded

off the internet. You know, it offers, sometimes I think when I'm thinking about, you know, my background in studying anarchists in Spain and like, obviously I've looked a lot at the past, but it gives me a vision of the future. Like, and it's only in covering the small parts of the revolution that make it truly a revolution that we can see that. Like you have an Instagram and on there you're posting about training. Sometimes when you're doing the trainings and there are women who are coming to train, you know, with rifles to be, I was going to say marks, marks people, I guess, like I don't people, sniper.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Only US military guys are weird about calling things snipers. Yeah. They're snipers. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. And let's do that. Okay. In the moment that, that they receive that training and become like efficient with their weapons, like a revolution happens for that woman. And it's only through like following those, those little revolutions that happen every day that make up a big revolution that we truly understand it. And I'm sure that's something that like you're seeing on a daily or weekly basis,

right? Like people's worlds opening up and their horizons changing because of the revolution. Well, listen, absolutely. Now, of course, you know, as leftists involved or interested in this revolution, studying it, whether you're a socialist, whether you're anarchist, whether you're communist, whether you're a poist, you know, however you like to describe yourself, whatever flavor you are, you know, without pontificating too much, I think fundamentally this revolution is a symbol of hope that it can be done. Now like, I'll give an example. From conversations that I've had with the comrades that have been

involved in this revolution since it was just a protest movement in the streets, one thing that I've heard a lot is that at the beginning of the revolution, when it switched, you know, when the police were firing bullets into the crowds and when people made this decision that, okay, now we have no choice but armed resistance, we have no choice but to fight the dictatorship when that calculus was made when that decision was made it was not made based on the kind of analysis of the situation that they could even win yeah it was not even that like okay we're gonna do this and we have this

strategy of guerrilla war and then we'll do this, this and this and then we'll achieve the victory. The calculation that was made was a moral calculation. It was saying we have the choice, we can go back to our life, we can accept this oppression, we can give up this struggle for democracy that we've been waging in one form or another, or we can make the decision to fight even if we won't win. It's the moral imperative to resist dictatorship. And I think what this revolution is showing, not just for the people who themselves were surprised at their capability and were themselves surprised at what they could accomplish when they actually stepped up and fought and sacrificed for revolution. Fundamentally, it's a message to everyone.

It says, look, these people at the beginning were going at checkpoints with like double barrels and air rifles, and at the end, now they are like threatening to overthrow what was previously assumed to be one of the most powerful militaries in southeastern Asia. I mean, now, like everyone jokes on the Tom and Tom because they're obviously garbage now, but like, at the time, that wasn't the analysis, you know? It would be the same as saying like, oh, you know, we're going to overthrow the USA or something like that. It was fundamentally people didn't even envision the victory, but on the moral principle to resist they resisted and from that moral position they were able to materialize the victory that they had previously not even imagined. So you know, for me, that's what I take away.

There's no books, there's no ideological books here that you can study and understand the underpinnings of the revolution. You know, there's no classes that you can go to that the PDF teaches you about what the revolutionary paradigm is. Fundamentally, it's a fight of the people against oppression and against dictatorship. And while of course there's some strengths and some weaknesses that we face in the revolution, ultimately, in the same way as Rojava, in the same place as other places in the world, it's a beacon of hope for democratic people who envision themselves fighting on the side of freedom, and the symbol that actually, yeah, you can win. Yeah, it's given me so much hope.

Like at a time, the last few years, when we've all desperately needed something good to happen, like something good is happening in it. Incredibly good. Through the, yeah, like it's breathtaking. Like I went in 2022 during the first year of the revolution, and I was shopping around this story for months, right? I knew these guys who were doing the 3D printing, and I went to every major outlet.

I was like, this is the story that's going to make people care, and no one bought it until eventually Coolzone did and here I am. But like, even 2021, 2022 talking to those guys, I was like, they might all die. It's still been worth it for them, but they might all be gone in a year. I'm unfortunately familiar with that from my line of work. But like, to see it succeed, it's so like incredible. It's obviously war is terrible and terrible things have happened in the war, but like, it's such a beautiful thing to see people refuse to accept tyranny and just through the tenacity

of their refusal to create liberated spaces and to now threaten to topple, like you say, one of what had previously been a feared army in the region. It continues to amaze me every day, every time I see people dancing in front of a captured military headquarters. It's just such a remarkable revolution. If people wish to be in solidarity, if they wish to follow the AIF, if they want to learn more about the AIF, where can they do that?

Are there places online or are there ways that they can support you aside from obviously like being part of the struggle? Like how can they help you? Yeah, me personally, my information platform is mostly on Instagram where I post updates about you know, either insights about what's going on or news updates or something like that. And that's azad underscore a f a on Instagram where I post updates about, you know, either insights about what's going on or news updates or something like that. And that's azad underscore a f a on Instagram. Spell out azad for the non Kurdish speakers. Yeah.

AZAD, A-Z-A-D, if you will. Yep. Underscore a f a on Instagram. The AIF also has an Instagram for like official posts. It's AIF me and more. In general about the AIF, especially at this early stages, right now we're involved in some front lines in Western Myanmar.

And so because of that, we don't really have a lot of information presence out right now, but in the coming weeks, in the coming months, definitely when things get published, when more things like that come out, they will come out from kind of the existing distribution circles that have been going around, like Libcom, there has been like statements going out, they will come out from kind of the existing distribution circles that have been going around like Libcom, there has been like statements going out as well as Instagram and PR things like that. Yeah. And recently we just completed a fundraiser.

Our goal was $10,000 for the vehicles and the equipment that we will needed to get started. For listeners who don't know, maybe, yeah, maybe they're not aware. This only started in October of last year. so we're still in the stages of consolidating and getting our equipment We set the goal for $10,000 and we exceeded it. We raised over $13,000 for that nice So yeah, we're very happy to say that but in the future, of course There will always be more opportunities as you know, revolution is very expensive Yeah, so yeah on all fundraising platforms, we have PayPal, Cash App, and Venmo.

And all of those are AIF Myanmar. And yeah, in the future, hopefully we will have more news both about what's happening in Myanmar, both how we specifically are involved, as well as just very exciting footage, we can say. We hope to share soon. Yeah, that'll be great to see. And I hope you'll come back and join us again. And maybe we can delve into a hope to share soon. Yeah, that'll be great to see. And I hope you'll come back and join us again and maybe we can delve into a little bit more

of the history of the revolution and the revolution in Chinland specifically, because I think these are things that we need to cover more and I'd love to give people a place to learn about them. Yeah, absolutely. Great, thank you so much. If What Happened Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonedmedia.com, or check

us out on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening. John Stewart is back in the host chair at The Daily Show, which means he's also back in our ears on The Daily Show Ears Edition podcast. Join late night legend John Stewart and the best news team for

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We want to speak out and we want this to stop. Wow, very powerful. I'm Ellie Flynn, an investigative journalist, and this is my journey deep into the adult entertainment industry. I really wanted to be a Playboy model. He was like, I'll take you to the top, I'll make you a star.

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