It Could Happen Here - The Marshall Islands Part Three: Climate Change

Episode Date: September 7, 2023

James looks at the threat posed to the tiny atoll nation by climate change, and how the RMI has centered culture and community in its response.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. United Airlines Flight 154 starts at Honolulu. When it leaves, it carries not only a full load of passengers, but also a mechanic and spare parts for the plane. On its journey, it stops in the Marshall Islands at Majuro and Kwajalein, before heading west to make three stops in Micronesia. And finally, it stops in Micronesia. And finally, it stops in Guam. The next day, it turns around and does the same route in reverse.

Landing in Majuro, you can see the ocean on both sides of the plane. In fact, you can see the ocean on both sides of the plane from a disturbingly low height. And despite this being one of the larger islands in the Marshall Islands, it almost looks like the plane won't fit on it without a wingtip overhanging the lagoon. The plane does fit, of course, and there's even room left at Majuro Airport for the best airport bar that I've ever seen. But even after a couple of hours in the company of the island's finest whiskey collection, it's very clear that the Marshall Islands are in a great deal of danger when it comes to rising sea levels. The Marshall Islands don't have much land to begin with,

and through no fault of their own, their island paradise is being gradually lost to the ocean. To start with, I want to let Kathy Gentil-Kidner, the poet who we heard from yesterday, outline the scale of the threat. Climate change is a challenge that few want to take on, but the price of inaction is so high. Those of us from Oceania are already experiencing it firsthand. We've seen waves crashing into

our homes and our breadfruit trees wither from the salt and drought. We look at our children and wonder how they will know themselves or their culture should we lose our islands. Climate change affects not only us islanders, it threatens the entire world. To tackle it, we need a radical change of course. This isn't easy, I know. It means ending carbon pollution within my lifetime. It means supporting those of us most affected

to prepare for unavoidable climate impacts. And it means taking responsibility for irreversible loss and damage caused by greenhouse gas emissions. The people who support this movement are indigenous mothers like me, families like mine, and millions more, standing up for the changes needed and working to make them happen. I ask world leaders to take us all along on your ride. We won't slow you down. We'll help you win the most important race of all, the race to save

humanity. Currently, Pacific Island nations are responsible for less than 0.03% of global greenhouse gas emissions. But the United Nations estimates that more than 50,000 people in the Pacific are displaced every year, many of them by climate change. Of course, people leave for other reasons. Perhaps they're looking for work which can be hard to find on a small island, or perhaps they want the opportunities that the United States Life offers. Thanks to their compact of free association, Marshallese people can live and work in the USA without a visa. Most Marshallese people who do leave the islands move to Springdale, Arkansas. It's where the largest off-island Marshallese community is gathered,

and they tend to cluster around the reliable jobs offered by the Tyson Chicken Factory. In 2020, the Tyson Chicken Factory remained open during lockdowns, and people who had left the islands for a more steady income and a better chance for a stable future suddenly face more great risks at work. Life is by no means easy for Marshallese people, both in the US and at home, and the choices they face because of climate change, constricting global economy, and the United States refusing to pay its fair share of compensation don't make that any easier. On my last night in the Marshall Islands, I was having a beer in a bar and chatting with a local journalist. I asked him what I should write. He said that I needed to tell you that people in the

RMI aren't moving because they're afraid of waves. We're not afraid of the ocean, he said. We're ocean people. We go in the ocean every day. He was right, of course. The drivers of migration are complicated, and they always have been. I always tell people who ask me what I cover that they cover climate and conflict and migration, because in fact they're largely the same things. There is many reasons for migrating from the Marshall Islands if there are people who have left, and all of them are valid. But everyone I spoke to, whether they'd

left or come back or stayed there their whole lives, were pretty clear that nobody wants the community to leave. The people of the Marshall Islands love their islands, and they want to raise their children and grandchildren on their ancestral land. But the people making the choices that impact their ability to do that are a long way from the lagoon that's creeping closer and closer to the houses around Majuro Atoll. Climate change making the islands unharvestable doesn't necessarily mean they'll be swallowed entirely by the ocean. Long before the last scrap of land disappears, the rising saltwater will kill breadfruit trees, and flooding will destroy homes. To get a sense of that threat, we spoke to a meteorologist. I'm Reggie White, Reginald White,

and I'm the meteorologist in charge here. Reggie explained what climate change might do to make the islands less easy to live on, and eventually perhaps impossible to live on if something doesn't change. It's hard for people to see these kind of creeping changes. When we think about climate change rendering an island uninhabitable, we think about that island ceasing to exist, or the houses being swept away by a storm surge, or a massive king tide perhaps. But in fact, the changes are more gradual, but no less destructive. We have to go back to the emission scenarios that IPCC produced, and based on that. Worstst case scenario if we look at it, I have to

open up the computer and look at the table, but in a hundred years we may be not completely sick. And that's not what's important here. What is important is the islands will be uninhabitable way before they sink. Because we will not be able to drive on the road, we will not be able to rely on our water lenses because they'll all have salt water into them as more and more frequent salt water intrusion get on top and down into the water lens, they will be undrinkable. So at what stage can we put that target? I'm not comfortable at this moment to point that out, but I think any one of us can look at the numbers and decide based on this emission scenario,

this is the date. Based on that emission scenario, that is the date. So there is not a set date. Or a, what do you call it? The hair that broke the camel's back? I cannot call it. What was that broke the camel's back? I cannot call it. What was it?

What was the American saying? Yeah, that's it. As Reggie explained, the impact of rising sea levels is already being seen, particularly in the case of flooding. There are many, but in a low-lying atoll, your most concern is flooding coastal flooding so we've seen more frequent flooding during La Nina La Nina is the face where in the Marshall Islands specifically you get elevated sea levels about 10 centimeters or so 8 to 12 inches on top of the normal sea level at any given time. So when there is a storm surge, king tide,

those things compound on one another to give us more frequent coastal floodings in the low-lying areas. If you go in the back of Majuro, you will see people building up seawalls to protect their properties. With those seawalls, the impact has been lessened a bit. But without those seawalls, nuisance flooding has been almost a monthly occurrence during El Niño phases. In 2021, the World Bank and the Marshallese government produced a report which allowed

visualisation of the impact of climate change on each building in Majuro. In broad strokes, the report stated that, quote, rising sea levels and the atoll nation of the Marshall Islands are projected to endanger 40% of existing buildings in the capital, Majuro, with 96% of the city at risk for frequent flooding introduced by climate change, according to a World Bank study. Change seems to be very hard for the corporations and governments most responsible for it. Indeed, one could argue that seeing that change is hard because of those corporations and governments. Naomi Oreskes, a Harvard historian of science, studies the propaganda that has allowed major corporations to deny the damage they do to the planet and generate massive profits by not paying for the negative externalities of their actions.

Negative externalities, if you're not familiar, are the costs that their business imposes on other people, but they don't pay. In her book, Merchants of Doubt, Oreskes traces how nuclear testing did huge damage to the ozone layer. Indeed, much of the technology we use today to track global climate change was developed using government money. Part of the reason why was to assess if the Soviet Union was doing nuclear testing by tracking the environmental damage that was done. Using some of the data these instruments created, scientists, among them Carl Sagan, began to discuss the possibility of a nuclear winter and the fact that any use of nuclear weapons, or even a nuclear accident,

could put the future of all humanity at risk. Unsurprisingly, a huge public relations effort spun up to dismiss the idea of nuclear winter and attack the concept of nuclear war being an unwinnable proposition. There was, after all, a huge amount of money at stake. In an excellent New Yorker essay on the subject, Jill Lepore, another Harvard historian, outlines a campaign to discredit those scientists and their claims. In 1984, in an effort to counter Carl Sagan and to defend what was called the Strategic Defense Initiative, the George C. Marshall Institute was founded by Robert Jastrow, a NASA physicist, Frederick Seitz, a former president of the National Academy of Sciences,

and William Nirenberg, a past director of the Scripps Institute of Oceanography right here where I live in San Diego. The Marshall Institute began trying to get PBS to not air documentaries opposing the Strategic Defense Initiative. to not air documentaries opposing the Strategic Defense Initiative. The so-called Star Wars program wouldn't be of any use if a single nuclear incident could trigger a devastating change in the global climate. Another Marshall Institute scientist, Seltz's cousin Russell, who is a physicist at Harvard Center for International Affairs, published an essay in the National Interest in the fall of 1986, dismissing the idea of nuclear winter and saying it was nothing but

a series of long conjectures. He describes the nuclear winter theory as dead, cause of death, notorious lack of scientific integrity. By 1988, the institute had pivoted, and it began publishing the first of many papers on climate change. Other scientists there, including Fred Singer, challenged the model that predicted a nuclear winter. They've gone on to do the same with climate change, claiming that in both cases it was far from certain that catastrophic consequences would occur. Singer, incidentally, was a consultant for Arco, Exxon, Shell Oil, and Sun Oil. He died in 2020 after serving for years as the Director of Science and Environment Policy at the Heartland Institute, which was founded in 1984.

Its position on global warming at the time was, quote, Most scientists do not believe human greenhouse gas emissions are a proven threat to the environment or human well-being, despite a barrage of propaganda insisting otherwise coming from the environmental movement and echoed by its sycophants in the mainstream media. In the Marshall Islands, this kind of denialism, no matter how well-funded and qualified, really isn't going to stick. Everyone here has personally seen the impacts of rising sea levels eroding away on their precious land. But it's the actions of people everywhere that impact people here. So they have to persuade the rest of the world to care about them.

I will bet that every Marshallese understands impacts. Because every Marshallese has been a victim of some coastal innovation, has been impacted by those so they understand uh the youngest ones maybe they experienced their first but the older ones they've been around during those days when they were you know coastal flooding wasn't an issue Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter? Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America.

Modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hola mi gente, it's Honey German and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again. The podcast where we dive deep

into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations

with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline Podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field And I'll be digging into why the products you love Keep getting worse

And naming and shaming those responsible Don't get me wrong though I love technology I just hate the people in charge And want them to get back to building things That actually do things to help real people I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough So join me every week to understand

What's happening in the tech industry And what could be done to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. One of the things I like to do in my free time is to free dive. Sometimes I can collect sea urchins or cool shells, but lots of the time I just like to be underwater.

I've never done scuba diving. All the gear and equipment kind of scares me, but holding my breath and swimming around the reef is probably the closest thing I'll ever feel to flying. To be able to hold your breath for a minute or two underwater, you need to get your heart rate very low. And this means being very calm, letting tension and stress float away. It's a magical feeling and one that I've tapped into even outside the water in stressful situations. Sometimes that ability to calm yourself could be a bit too effective. I remember once starting to walk off a

broken pelvis and passing out from blood loss later. Sometimes that calm focus though can be exactly what you need. Like when you're holding your breath on the bottom of the ocean and you realize that you've got your fins tangled and abandoned fishing line and you need to cut it so you can get back to the surface and breathe. I saw that same ability to remain calm and even happy despite what seems like another impending crisis, every time I spoke to Marshallese people about climate change. Between their nuclear past and their perilous future, the Marshallese people have every right to be angry. And maybe they are angry when they're not talking to British journalists.

But whenever I asked people, they still seemed hopeful, upbeat and excited about the future of their country. I asked people, they still seemed hopeful, upbeat, and excited about the future of their country. As we're going to see tomorrow, Marshallese people are still very much investing in their shared future. I think there's something we can all learn from resilience of the Marshallese community, even in the face of what seems like a second apocalyptic threat. Here's Reggie discussing how climate change makes him feel. Well, I try not to dwell on what could happen. I could try to think of what we could do now to change people's heart, to change how we behave, how we treat the world. I mean, it's our only home.

You go out in space and look back, it's one lonely place in an entire galaxy of stars and whatever. But when you look at it that way, you begin to realize, I must respect my place. Who else will respect it if I don't? It's worth noting that some people we talked to were less concerned about climate change. My name is Juliette Miranda from Marshall Island. I live on Takan. Juliette's an older resident of Rongrom, one of the outer islands on Majuro Atoll. Her life there is in many senses idyllic.

Her cookhouse is built around a large breadfruit tree. The tree also serves as a work service. It's like a solar punk vision of the future where we live in harmony with nature. But for her, it's just a place she makes lunch. Along with the other Rongrong islanders, she served a visiting group that I was part of a delicious lunch of coconut, breadfruit, pandanus, crabs, and rice,

while we talked about what brought her back to the Marshall Islands after 30 years living in the United States. Well, because I'm always homesick when I'm in the USA, I miss my, you know, walk around, freedom. Like, USA, you cannot go to next door because, you know, trespassing. But around here, a lot different. So I love the USA. The light is good. And a lot of different things the USA do than Marjorie's. So I love it here. I do all my old things I usually do,

breaking and make my own chicken and swimming. On beach in Santa Barbara, you have to get a bag to go to the beach. Over here, you go to the beach. Any time you want. She clearly loves her little piece of paradise, and it's easy to see why. She was happy to share it with us, as were all the islanders on Rong Rong. A short walk away from her house, her neighbour's

children played in the sand with their pigs, chickens and dogs. And it's certainly a very different place from Santa Barbara, where she spent much of her time in the United States. But it's no less special. Like many Marshallese, she has a very strong faith. And that faith is helping her explain why climate change is happening. Do you think it's because the sea level is rising? Do you think it will make it harder for people to live? Some people do that, but I don't believe it. Only God will do it.

Only God will? I believe in God. When they do the weather and say it's going to rain tomorrow, and tomorrow is not going to be raining. God is going to make it rain. The news don't know. You know it. You're a minister. For others, the threat is already here.

Here's one conversation with Monique and Francine from Cora in Okorane, a local NGO who you'll hear a lot about tomorrow. They're doing incredible work investing in the future of the Marshall Islands Francine from Cora in Okorane, a local NGO who you'll hear a lot about tomorrow. They're doing incredible work investing in the future of the Marshall Islands by installing water filters and smokeless stoves in homes across the nation. You might never have had to worry about clean water or never been concerned that cooking your food might hurt your lungs. But both of those things are massive public health issues if you don't have access to electricity, gas and clean water from a pipe that comes into your home. One night, before dinner, we talked to them about climate change. The scientists are saying that you've got so many years until all the ice melts and

affects us. We don't have mountains to run to. Like some places they can just run to the mountains. We don't. And it's Marshall Islands, Maldives. Kiribati. Kiribati, too bad. We're at the front lines. Yeah.

So you're also blessed that you get to see the Marshall Islands. Yeah, and really look, really see firsthand what the possibility would be. The impact goes beyond the individual, though. When we heard from the Ministry of Health on the impact that climate change is already having on the well-being of Marshallese people, they reminded us of both the physical and mental health of residents has been affected. So, as the acting secretary said, my name is Nathan Carter. I'm the climate change and health admin. Well, first of all, welcome to the RMI. Very grateful that you're here to visit us.

I think Michael Jackson said it best. If you want to see change in the world, you have to look in the mirror and believe in yourself. So this is our Climate Change and Health Department. Climate impacts on health and well-being. Nathan went on to explain what that means, both in terms of mental health and in physical health, as mosquitoes and other disease vectors adapt to the changing climate

and rising sea levels. Highly communicable diseases and XCDs, reducing vulnerabilities with vector-borne diseases. And then improving mental health resilience. So the mental health resilience is a really key point. We have an art seminar that's ongoing right now in partnership with Jojibu, which lets the youth express how climate change makes them feel. And also involving the community and getting their feedback.

The climate issue is not just at a national level, it's mostly at the community level. Welcome, I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know it. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows

as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone

from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge Thank you. better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles,

and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente, and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All of these changes are hard to predict, but it's easy to see the impact climate change has already had. We spoke to the island's Environmental Protection Agency to get a sense of what that meant. My name is Moriana Phillip and I'm the general manager here.

As you can see we're a very small organization with a very broad mandate. Anything environmental related we are accountable to and we're supposed to supposed to provide advice to the government and the marginalized people about new issues that are coming up and so you know we're easily overwhelmed and outmatched and then you know you throw in climate change into the mix, and suddenly, I can't even imagine what the change is going to be like in the next five years or ten years. It's hard for me to imagine. When I was a child, I used to go to the school across the street. It's DES, it's a public school. And we would cross the road and swim from here all the way to Delop and then cross the road and go home.

This was all white sandy beach. You know, obviously that's not the case anymore. One way that the Marshallese community has responded to climate change is to take a position of leadership on mitigating carbon emissions. We heard about this all over the island, with solutions ranging from electric canoes to sailboats to a grid that runs on renewable energy. They've also taken leadership in how aid money is spent. Rather than just accepting the projects as funders suggest them,

the RMI has been vocal in making sure that the unique challenges that they face are reflected with unique solutions that they propose. For example, they simply don't have the space for larger solar farms, even if they do have the funding. My name is Angeline Heine-Ramers. Other than being part of PUE, I'm also the director for the National Energy Office. And then I'd like to introduce you to Ben. He's the deputy director.

So we're a very small office. It's newly created. It was developed in 2018. So we're trying to be creative and we partnered with our local government in exchange building them basketball courts the reason why there's so many basketball courts is that we'll be installing rooftop and on the rooftop that's where we're going to be housing the solar connecting it to the grid grid. And with this project, it took us I think more than a year, Ben, right, to go back and forth with our partner because they just wanted to go ahead and put on solar. Sometimes the scale of the programs larger countries use simply isn't a good fit for

the Marshallese. We get funding to go on trips to places like Korea, Japan, Okinawa, to see all these systems that in the eyes of big countries they see as islands, like Jeju Island in Korea. But they're like so advanced compared to here. You go there and they have ocean thermal and to us we're like, okay, what about our corals? That's where our reef fish lives in. Do we have to get rid of our corals? Maybe we should rethink that or...

They also make sure to incorporate traditional methods and their culture along with their modern solutions. I wanted to ask more about the electric canoes that they use. I know they're very, very cool. I'm interested to know, like, A, what generally are you like that you were incorporating the traditional ways into your way of moving, sort of ignoring them, trying other things. Is that something that, the electric community, is that something that was cleaned up, like here, at the WAM? And can you talk about how close to this condition,

how much fuel it might save? Then do you wanna start with how we came up with the idea for the, and then where we are at in it? Yeah. for the and then where we are at in it. Yeah. So WAM started the initiative of the boat building and they wanted to, it's strictly started with WAM. We had no idea about their project, but initially they got a project from a donor

for boat building where they would modernize these traditional canoes in just to make modifications to like make the hull bigger for catching fish or just why not and then out of the blue the director for a while said hey what if we put solar on this boat I think there's something in the market so we just out of the blue just wanted to test it. Unfortunately when we purchased the motor and they want to start the testing, one burned down and the motor burned down with it but they did a few runs in the lagoon with it and it was really awesome. I rode on it. At one point they started

using wind and the wind died down, turned on the motor and they started using the motor and the wind picked up, they turned off the motor. It was really awesome. But we, NEO, the director wanted to procure another one so we procured another one with our own funds. So it's on its way and should be here very shortly to do some real testing. But we also partnered with WAM because of that just pilot project. We saw the need to build more of this similar kind canoe so we we asked another donor if we can use their funding to fund the second phase of that project. So right now they've been approved and they're building an

additional 18 more canoes for each island and so the process is they bring in these boat builders from the outer islands, they train them how they build these new style canoes with modern technology and then they ship it back out. One success story without the motor is in the atoll of Likiep, they completely stopped using their motorized boat because they're 100% using the canoe and the canoe can carry up to a ton. So they've been carrying Cobra from one island to another back and forth with the canoe. And they said they'd save so much money that they decided to do a fishing tournament at their outer island from the money they saved.

Here's Reggie talking about how he sees his role in combating climate change. about how he sees his role in combating climate change. I don't enjoy being helpless. I don't believe that the impacts of others should impact me. I make the changes where I can. I try to behave in a manner that is not detrimental to the earth. And I preach that to my kids and hopefully the compounding effect or it will grow exponentially from them to other ambassadors to spread the word that, you know, we need to do something.

It's not about politics and it's about, you know, your overhead or how much profit you gain at the end of the day. It's about how you gain those by being a good ambassador to preserving the earth and the climate, all the other inhabitants, not just humans. Wherever we went in the Republic of the Marshall Islands,

it was hard to find doom and gloom with regards to climate change. What we found everywhere was people adapting and making changes, both the kind of changes that reduced their carbon emissions and the kind that made their homes more defensible because the rest of the world is not making that first kind of changes. Resilience doesn't just mean seawalls and houses on stilts that can withstand flood. Those are important. It also means making hard choices and forming strong communities.

Here's Mariana again. There's a lot of attention on us as front-line countries in the face of climate change. And we get a lot of reporters come in asking us questions. We get a lot of consultants that come in and out and collect data. You know, of course we're seen as sort of the sad countries that will eventually face the reality of having no land to live on. So forced relocation, displacement. I don't want to say migration because that's not exactly migration.

If you have to leave, you're being displaced. if you have to leave, you're being displaced. Our concern is that we're not, we don't have all the capabilities and the science at our fingertip to help inform the government or, you know, everyone interested, donors, about how much is changing, how much is going to change, and especially how that change is going to change us. You know, it's overwhelming. it's overwhelming. We have a national adaptation plan. I hope that you will get into that

when you get the chance to. That's the survival plan. In that survival plan, there is, you know, there is very scary reality that we may need to take down some islands to elevate some islands. You know, and every island have their landowners. And what happens to those people? Marshallese are connected to their land so much culturally. And so how do we adapt to that change when it comes so quickly?

That's scary. Everywhere you go in the Marshall Islands, you see the impact of climate change and rising sea levels. But you also see the community responding and supporting itself through the existential threat. The RMI isn't a sad place, quite the opposite. It's a tremendously happy and beautiful place. And I had one of the most enjoyable weeks I can remember there.

I'd go back in a heartbeat. But the joy with which people approach every day doesn't mean they aren't concerned, and it certainly doesn't mean they're not worthy of our concern. Tomorrow, we're going to discuss how the people of the Republic of Marshall Islands, and in particular the women of the Republic of Marshall Islands, are making sure that Marshallese people have a safe and healthy future. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources.

Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of right. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturno on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Jacqueline Thomas, the host of a brand new Black Effect original series, Black Lit, the podcast for diving deep into the rich world of Black literature. Black Lit is for the page turners,

for those who listen to audiobooks while running errands or at the end of a busy day. From thought-provoking novels to powerful poetry, we'll explore the stories that shape our culture. Listen to Black Lit on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. AT&T, connecting changes everything. Hey, I'm Gianna Pertenti. And I'm Jamee Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. If you're early in your career, you probably have

a lot of money questions. So we're talking to finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it down. Looking at the numbers is one of the most honest reflections of what your financial picture actually is. The numbers won't lie to you. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts.