It Could Happen Here - The Uprising in France

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Mael and Agathe, two participants in France's latest wave of unrest share their experiences and talk about the future of the movementSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadowbride. Join me, Danny Trejo, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern-day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating.

I don't feel emotions correctly. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers

as a fake gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's been four months since French President Emmanuel Macron effectively declared war on French society. Euphemistically called pension reforms, Macron's proposal would increase the retirement age from 62 to 64, effectively robbing the working class of two years of their lives. In January, French unions filled the streets of Paris with trash. Now, French workers build brick and mortar barricades

on highways and set branches on fire on train tracks. Welcome to It Could Happen Here. The escalation from protest to uprising is, in part, a product of how Macron forced the retirement age increase through a national assembly he no longer controls. he no longer controls. Without the ability to win a vote, Macron's Prime Minister, Elisabeth Borne, suddenly invoked Article 49 of the French Constitution, which allows the ruling government to force a bill into law without a vote. Macron argues that because circumventing parliament to force legislation through is legal, the move is democratic. Millions across France disagree. We spoke to two French protesters,

Mael, a student in Lyon, and Agathe, a union railway worker at a state-owned rail company, about the movement. The two met through a struggle committee designed to bring people from different backgrounds and movements together to fight against Macron's reforms. And four, as Mael put it, victories for our class. Agathe had this to say against Macron's reforms. And four, as Mayel put it, victories for our class. Agathe had this to say about Macron's anti-democratic sleight of hand. What they are using right now is a rhetorical trap,

which consists of confusing democracy and constitutionalism. I don't know if I'm using the right word, but for instance, you know that they, maybe you know that to impose this reform, they have been using an article, which is article 49.3 of our constitution. And they say that, well, this article is in the Constitution.

We are in a democracy and therefore this article is democratic, which is absolutely false. It's a fallacious reasoning. It is not true. The 49.3 is an anti-democratic article of the Constitution. And this is what they have been trying to do lately, to say, to make us believe that everything that's been happening is absolutely normal and complies with the democratic standards of France, which is not true. Also, what they are trying to do to

disqualify any opposition from the left wing is to say that the left-wing party is actually an extreme left-wing party, which it is not. And it's kind of they are trying to induce a kind of history in all this and to radicalize

what is not. What we are asking for is simply for them to listen to what we for once can call the people. Generally, when you have a protest, it's only a part of the population that disagrees with the policy of the government. But this time, honestly, there are seven people out of 10 who disagree with this. And nine workers out of 10 who disagree with this reform. Honestly, I think we can call ourselves the people. Yeah.

And in a democracy, well, what you do is listen to the people, not the representatives and not the members of the government, but the people in the fucking streets, I'm sorry and because they do not want to do that, they try to say that we

are radicals and that we are supported by radical political parties which is not true yeah, it's a very weird situation this is what I wanted to say about their current strategy

aside from the repression of which we are going to talk in a few minutes this is what their strategy is yeah basically they confuse all of the forces on the left together. They say that Mélenchon is funding the Black Bloc, you know.

So it's things like that. The CGT, LFE, all of them, it's all the same. And they all want the destruction of civilization and I don't know. That's the discourse on the far right. Yeah, and we eat babies. Yeah. That sounds like the American right too.

Yeah, and this is kind of linked to police violence, this discourse when you were talking about how they're saying that the constitution is democratic and there's nothing you can say, even though, well, the point of the constitution is to bypass the parliament. I don't know if that's democratic. But yeah, so when it comes to police violence, the reaction is to say that the state holds the legitimate monopoly of violence.

So therefore, they can repress us however they want. That's literally what they're saying right now, which is kind of worrying. The French police have been incredibly violent in their campaign to suppress the protests. The French police have been incredibly violent in their campaign to suppress the protests. At an ecological action in Saint-Seline on March 25th, tens of thousands of activists were met with helicopters, armored vehicles, and 6,000 grenades, many of which were the French police's new and incredibly dangerous military-grade GM2L-CS gas grenades. One protester was shot in the head with a tear gas grenade fired by a grenade launcher mounted on an armored vehicle. He remained in a coma, fighting for his life for an entire month.

Earlier today, his parents released a statement saying that he has begun to wake up but is not fully conscious, and his life remains in danger. The day before, a special police motorcycle unit called BRAV-M, created in 2019 to suppress the Gilets Jaunes, or the Yellow Vests protests, was recorded threatening a group of random people that had arrested for sitting in front of a building. From the Washington Post, the cop says, quote, you're lucky to be sitting there now that we've arrested you. I swear, I'd have broken your legs, literally. I can tell you, we've broken elbows and faces, but you, I'd have broken your legs, one officer says in the recording, Limonde reported. Two slapping sounds can be heard, the report says, along with an officer saying,

wipe that smile off your face. Later in the clip, a police officer warns the young people they have detained, quote, next time we come, you won't be getting in the car to go to the police station. You'll be getting in another thing called an ambulance to go to the hospital. Paris police chief Lorette Nuez said on Friday he was, quote, very shocked by the audio clip. Mayel and Agat were less shocked. This is not really a surprise unfortunately because uh well our lease is not as i don't know it's problematic but maybe not as problematic as in the u.s i'm sorry if i'm wrong about that but uh we also follow sometimes what uh what happens uh on the other side of the ocean. But I must say that we have had issues of police murders on the street and police violence, wanton violence. And unfortunately, now it's not new.

And there is a newspaper called Mediapart who managed to find excerpts of, I think it's a group on WhatsApp or whatever, of policemen talking about race war and all these kind of things and unfortunately we know that there are such

people in our police the police are basically fascists all of them they have one of their unions which is called Alliance. And for the

presidential election, they invited the right-wing party, who are basically only people who dog whistle about genocide. And then the classic Marine Le Pen and Zemmour, the far right who's openly calling

for a civilizational war with Muslims. So that's the police unions. And for a little bit of history on the police, we have, for example, one of the very violent units that you see arresting people all over France, which are called Brigade Anticriminalité, or BAC for short. These people come from some sort of colonial units who were in Algeria during the war. And when there was a need to repress populations who previously lived in colonies and then moved to France, to the main country. They created a lot of very violent units, recruited through people who were in the Algerian war, to basically break down people's houses, things like this, beat them up, you know. It was really colonial practices. And all of this kind of stayed with the repression of poor and non-white areas of town, where they try to always have a strong police presence and catch people, they say, in the

act, but they're really making up reasons to arrest people. Police violence is not new at all. And yeah, basically these units train all year long against poor non-white people. And then during protests, they come against people who have come to protests, which are generally different people, but not entirely different people, of course. The police response to protests, Agathe says, has gotten more violent since the Gilets Jaunes protests in 2019. But instead of clearing the streets as Macron had hoped, the increase in violence is just narrowing the traditional gap between more moderate trade union protesters and the more radical protesters found in black blocs. I've seen people in America and England saying that

the movement is dying down because the inter-union protests are more and more away from each other. But in the actual protest, people are much much more radical and what happens is that the people who are in the front of the protests before the union and who may potentially fight with the cops that the union will never do, who may potentially fight with the cops that the union will never do uh they're more and more numerous like four times bigger than the protests a month ago and so the cops cannot charge us every time they charge people get around them and there are rocks which happen to hit their heads i don't know how yeah could i ask about that a bit specifically about the the dynamic of there being a sort of i don't know a kind of a kind of divide between the the sort of

more militant people who are fighting the cops and the sort of more moderate uh like trade union like protesters i wanted to ask i guess like how how firm has that separation been? And what, I guess, have the unions been doing here? Have they been trying to contain things? Have they been trying to push forward? Well, I think it's a very recent phenomenon, kind of. Especially the way it's taken form now because it's basically a mix of a black bloc and some gilets jaunes and some radical people yeah yellow vests but um so the black bloc it started really in 2016 before, there was no real Black Bloc all the time at protests.

And the attitude of the unions is that they hate the Black Bloc. It's pretty simple. I mean, not, of course, as everyone who is in a union, but the unions who organize the protests, they don't want anyone in front of them. They want people to go behind them and follow whatever they want to do. So they've been really aggressive, but even if there are conflicts right now, I would say the fact that the people in front of the union are more and more numerous, I think there's somewhat less tensions. The unions, I don't think they feel like they can really push

against even the black bloc or radicals who break stuff. If I may add in something, indeed, there is a difference between the attitude of the union directions, let's say, and people like me, the simple unionized workers. What Mael said is absolutely true about the hate. They really don't want any backlogs, especially in front of them.

But what I observed over the last few demonstrations is that what we call the cortège de tête, what we call the cortège de tête, which is really the very head of the demonstration, even in front of the unions, the official union group, where there are the black blocs and the yellow vests. There are more and more people, I was going to say like me, but I'm still a bit cowardly and I'm still afraid of getting in this kind of place. But there are more and more unionized workers who mingle with the bloodblocks and etc. And I, you know,

we also have what we call manifestation sauvage, the wild and not organized protests that are not organized by unions, but kind of spontaneous.

They happened after Macron forced the reform through Parliament without a vote and people just went in the streets without a union and they burned... there were images in Paris of everything burning. It was that day and that's what we call a wild protest. Yeah and indeed for the first time I saw unionized workers joining in. That is crazy because they were feeling that what the unions were proposing within the legal and pacifist and nice frame was not enough. Because really, our president was really just making fun of us. And we couldn't have it. And what we usually do was not longer enough for us and this is really something new

welcome i'm Danny Thrill won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Fire and dare enter. Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonorum. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters, to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know you. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America

since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex Elite has turned Silicon Valley

into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people.

I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh.

And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba.

Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him.. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzales wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban,

I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I asked about the appearance of the Gilets Jaunes in the current protests and what the two thought of them. Mayel, the student, was somewhat dismissive. But the impact the Gilets Jaunes had on Agathe and the railway workers was very different. Yeah, I can say a little bit, but I don't know much about the yellow vests. vests. So what I saw of the yellow vests were a lot of blockages and people against taxes on gas.

And the way it radicalized was towards some form of radical democracy, but maybe not so radical because they wanted... The mass movement seemed to end on the demand for referendums. Basically, they wanted to be able to call their own referendums. And the demands were not directly linked to economics, as I saw them very often. And when we saw them in protests in Lyon, they were kind of weird. But I don't know them very well. What I saw was that the government repressed them really, really hard. Much harder than the usual protests that we do because they were really scared of them. Yeah, because I took part to the Yellow Vest Movement and I tend to disagree a bit with your analysis on this. Yeah, go ahead,

no problem. No, no, no, no, it's just a, I'm just saying, and it's not an attack at all. At first, I must say I hated this movement because, well, just a long story short, it began in 2018. And in 2018, there was a big movement in the SNCF where I work in the railway public company because the current, it's very funny because it's the current prime minister who was the transport minister at the time

oh no they just move them around we keep seeing the same people it's absolutely I can't stand that. Anyway, I have a personal vendetta with this woman. And we had been trying to fight off the, well, they kind of started to kill off our company. It's only now dying of its slow death.

of our company. It's only now dying of its slow death. But this is where the end really began in 2018 for us. You mean by privatization, they're killing the company? Yeah, we are not private yet, but the door has been opened. and so it's been a really really hard protest for us and we in the end we lost it was really hard and

after that we I've seen these people the yellow vest stand up and take on our songs to make them their own. The famous On est là, it started in the railway world and it really started in Lyon. I was there and suddenly these people whom I did not see by our side a few months before started to invade the streets and sing our songs. I was really outraged.

I was furious. who are more intelligent than me and who said that it was worth going to see these people and see what was on their minds and what they were thinking, especially because there were people who had never before protested. They had never been on the street to demonstrate about anything. And they were right to do that and it's it all started with the price of oil and of gasoline and i found that really really insignificant and in fact it really opened my mind about the reality of other people because I do not have a car. But some people have a car and they need it to live together, to make a living. And not only that, but the motives of the protest, they brodened and brodened.

These people, they got politicized at such a speed a high speed this is incredible because quite rapidly the the um what they were um demanding were was not simply the the lowering of the oil price it was also more democracy it was more social justice it. It was against the cancellation of attacks on fortune, on the great fortune of people, on great wealth, and on climate also. It merged with a lot of climate demonstrations, and it was about really a social model and what world we want to live in tomorrow. And so this is why I say this movement was really incredible. It was also incredible because it was taking place without the unions. It depends on the regions in France.

It depends on the regions in France. In Lyon, for example, there is no love lost between the Yellow Vests and the unions, the direction of the unions. But in other regions, like in south of France or in the north, it's very different. And soon they began to protest together. And the Yellow Vests, they gave us a new a fresh new breath it was really a breath of fresh air they were such spontaneous

they were so spontaneous and so angry also you know they reminded us what it was to be angry and to have the right to be angry and not to be helpless in front of an unjust policy.

It really changed this. Just like I said earlier that in this very movement, the movement we live in now, there are unionized workers who mingle with the Black Bloc, for example. Well, there were a lot of us unionized workers in the Yellow Vest too. And so it influenced us a lot. I think we can say that if 2016 added a black block to the protests, now the yellow vestige changed completely the way we protest as well. All the blockages are much more regular,

and the way people fear less to demand things and to organize without unions. I think we can say that it definitely changed things. Also, personally, I think that if I say wrong things about yellow vests or I don't know them particularly because yes the concern about oil gas price was not not one of mine because I live in a city and I don't have a car so I think it affected more the country the countryside of France, which is more concerned with gas prices than big cities. Also because we already have lots of political movements here. It's kind of different. I don't know this spot very well, to be honest. Maybe I should just shut up. No, I mean, it's interesting to me,

because I remember when the Gilets Jaunes protests started up, there was a lot of debate outside of France and kind of, like, Westerners observing the protests as to, are these guys, is this something that's like a positive movement? Are they all right wing? And it's interesting that the way in which kind of all of these different sort

of eras of protest movements in France have melded together for this most recent kind of uprising. Like you've got, you've got you've got these trade unions, you've got Gilets Jaunes, you've got the Black Bloc, all sort of working as

different pieces of this of this uprising you know, based on kind of the different tactics of their eras, that's fascinating to me I was discussing and saying that it's kind of a feature of movements about pensions, even if they can be very different, that they tend to attract a lot of people. And at first the protests were not very radical at all compared to protests

we could have with similar sizes. But gradually the movement is radicalizing a lot, it seems to me, the people who are in it. And the fact that it tends to mobilize everyone at first, even if it's not very radical, it created this sort of mingling of everybody. So there's a yellow vest, the unions, the black bloc, everybody except the political parties because they're useless. Welcome, I'm Danny Threl. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnum, Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonora. An anthology of modern day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America.

From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of my Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires.

From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean.

He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well.

Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Alongside the radicalization of protesters from all walks of life inside France, there's been a surprisingly strong international reaction from other European workers and activists. You know, I'm wondering, you know, during the Black Lives Matter protests in the U.S. in 2020, international attention was significant. And it was to some extent useful in terms of helping to raise money and stuff for different bail funds, people from all around the

world help to that extent. But I'm wondering, is the degree of international attention by other countries, left-wing movements on what's happening in France right now, you know movements on what's happening in france right now is it having an impact directly or is it just sort of like uh noise well uh on my part it seems to be a lot of noise yes because a lot of people seem to misunderstand completely the situation. And, yes, I just give their opinion. And that's fine, I guess. But I think there may be actual solidarity with some militants. I mean, I know among anarchists that there are anarchists who come from anarchists. There are anarchists who come from Italy, Switzerland, Germany,

and other countries to try to help actions and protests. I'm pretty sure that among unions there is international solidarity as well. Maybe, Agathe, you should say something about this. Yes, there is international solidarity. Honestly, this is not something I was expecting. But, for instance, last week in Belgium, there are workers from a Total plant that actually blocked the freaking port. that actually blocked the freaking port to prevent them from sending product to substitute it to the product that was blocked by protesters in France. And that was, for me, this is absolutely wonderful.

And yes, so yes, there are international solidarities. We have been in our interprofessional assembly because we have a local interprofessional assembly. And we have been expressing our gratitude to the people in Greece, in Argentina, in Spain, in Germany, who expressed their support openly. And personally, I was really surprised to see how many people actually were paying attention to what was happening in our country.

That's true. And it gives us, well, it gave strength to many people. And it also gives hope because I realized that, well, you know, the main leverage we have on our politicians is the economical leverage. And so when the bosses of big companies and investors and everything start to say, well, Guy, your reform of pensions in France is starting to make a mess in Germany, in Spain, in Greece. Please stop your madness. Well, this is a leverage I was not expecting.

We are trying to use the leverage of the big wealth and the big companies in France, which is already something quite hard to move. And that was really an unexpected support. And we really hope that it's going to have an impact because Macron is very, he's a narcissistic guy and he loves his own image. So if his image is starting to suffer internationally, I think this is going to be a big problem for him.

And his image at the time is really a catastrophe. Belgium, of course, is not the only place where blockades are happening. They've become a staple of the uprising in France as well. I'm very interested in talking about the blockages of the highways around Lyon, because many cities are trying to do this. There is Rennes, which is in Bretagne, which manages to block the highways very often. And so they started in Lyon. We tried once a few weeks ago. It was a call by the unions with a few points to block in the morning. And people and

militants from all over joined the points at like 6am or 7am. I don't remember. But when people arrived, there were cops everywhere. And they were pushed away and circulation and capitalism could work normally and everything was fine. So we were very frustrated. So we reorganized completely and through the struggle committee we assembled people from general assemblies all over the city and also various groups and we managed to organize a blockade last Thursday and it worked pretty well. It was not exceptional but for first try people were very happy about it.

It led to many people from all over in the movement working together on a project and meeting together in assembly and then being together on blockages and i think it's moments like this which are very important for the movement to to develop i'm not sure if the blockage in itself is the most interesting action I'm not sure if the blockage in itself is the most interesting action in terms of economic damage, especially if we don't stay very long, but the different social relations it can create, and I think it can have a lot of influence in the movement, especially when we're thinking about about the unions and the leaders of the unions who don't want to mobilize too much, who don't want to go too far. What can we do outside of that? Well, I think that's part of the answer, at least.

I agree. Yeah, I think that's something that was interesting to me because I think roadblocks and barricades like that as a sort of social site is like a really... It's a thing you see a lot in the past 20, 25 years of protest movements. This was a big deal in Oaxaca oaxaca in 2006 there's a lot of similar stuff in chiron uh during the uprising there it's interesting to see it sort of like

re-entering the repertoire of stuff yeah the the kind of the the the different species of social interactions that are made possible by these kind of zones of autonomy that are created yeah and they they ask a lot of new questions for militants how to hold a barricade against cops and against cars it's a lot of different questions which uh i think they can radicalize people I think they can radicalize people, at least to demand more things. So it's not clear what they want to demand for now. Yeah, I just wanted to say that I'm really, really happy to see people from different parts of society really coming together and accepting to work together. Like, you know, so many things impossible now. As a student, I've met basically students from all universities in my town.

I now have free access to all publications in French, and I'll never pay for anything. It's really, really great. In terms of blockage, there is just south of Lyon, there is an oil refinery which is not on strike. It's among the only ones. It's really important because in France, there's a special system because they wanted to stay independent from oil producers. So they import the oil and then they refine it in France. So basically if we stop all the refineries, there is no more gas for cars. And right now it's becoming a real problem because of the strikes. And this one stays open. And so people have started to try and block the entry.

So right now there's like something like 50 union workers and like 50 radical militants who come there every morning. Well, not this week, but last week they were doing it because this week we haven't't said but everyone is on holiday you kind of somewhat the students are on holiday so many people take their paid leave right now as well it's kind of a special time so but next week probably the blockages are going to start again. And it's great to see union workers meeting with more radical people to try and get an action together. I think when there is solidarity like this, great things can happen. If I may add something about blockages and everything, If I may add something about blockages and everything,

what works pretty well and it's quite satisfying, there are big days of mobilization. And what has happened several times now is that on the very same day, at the very same time, there are several appointments a little everywhere in the, in the town and to block something, to block a highway, to block a factory, to block a school or whatever. And this allows, it allows us to, to dispatch and to stretch the forces of the police. And so they are never enough everywhere to, to, to stop us. And that makes, that can make, that can make the day a real success because you have a

lot of things happening at the very same time, but there is only so many cops. So yeah, it works pretty well. This is, interestingly, the same analysis the US police came to in 2020. It's easy to stop one large action, but several smaller actions split police forces and prevent them from just kettling one large block of protesters. I guess the thing i was interested in is that i think one of the things that happens in the u.s a lot is you'll get a national day of action but all of the actions like there'll just be one giant action in a city and you don't get the kind of like diffusion that's been helpful with spreading out cop numbers and i was wondering like is this something like the

unions are specifically planning to have multiple events all over the place or is that something that's been happening like outside that or no no no the unions only plan well they plan for a strike and for a protest

there are also actions but only one action and the others are organized by regular people? No, but you mean the actions on the day are not organized by the national unions, local unions which do the actions, right? That's what you're talking about? Yes, absolutely. Yeah, so there are local unions because in France, unions are very federal somewhat. This we can talk about. It's a bit of a problem. But like, you know, the CGT, it started out as an anarchist union.

the CGT started out as an anarchist union. They were very into federalism and all of this. There is local autonomy and what happens is workers in very mobilized sectors like the railways, the energy workers, they will organize through their union actions on that day, for example. And on top of this, for example, you have students in a certain high school or a certain university who decide to block something. And for example, they need support. Recently there was a notably right-wing campus who was blocked by students. And so a lot of us came to help them because we had never seen this campus blocked ever.

And of course what happened was some fascists attacked them. But we were much, much more numerous than them so it was no problem but the next time they had a block cage planned at this campus they ended up not having enough numbers so they cancelled but the fascists didn't know that it was cancelled, and so they all came really armed with metal bars and all of that, you know. Still, despite the threat of fascist street gangs and their better armed and more legitimate counterparts in the police, the protests continue. They continue to block roads. They continue to occupy universities.

They continue to strike. They continue to fight the police. They continue to find new forms of resistance, new forms of solidarity, new worlds composed of people who in ordinary times would never have met. And in the process, they continue to find new ways of being free. Beneath the cobblestones, the beach, said another generation of French protesters in May of 1968, all you have to do is pick it up and throw it. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media.

For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America. Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly.

I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a fake gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Curious about queer sexuality, cruising, and expanding your horizons?

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