It Could Happen Here - They Finally Indicted Trump For The Coup

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Robert, Mia, and James walk through the latest Trump indictment, what it says about the necessary components of a successful coup, and the last great act of Danny QuayleSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You should probably keep your lights on for

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It's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. It Could Happen Here is the podcast that this is right now. Would you guys solo intro this podcast, James Stout, Mia Wong? Do y'all just like shout atonally ever? Have y'all tried that yet? I haven't.

I struggle with the intros. I just say hello, everyone. See you, James. Nope. Nope. I could try track next time that's your that's your east coast ivy league elitism uh coming through yeah that's that's correct forever ever since i was born in boston i uh i've had that yeah growing up on a different side of the tracks yourself also from boston of course that's right that's right yes East Boston. Train tracks in Boston, I'm sure.

I'm not allowed currently to do the accent because Sophie- Is that for legal reasons? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's got some dirt on me. Anyway, we are a podcast about things falling apart. And you know what would make things fall apart worse than they already are is if Donald Trump

won a second term. So today, we're going to talk partly about that, and we're going to talk about the indictments against him. That's the big news, right? The most recent big political news, unless he's been indicted again by the time this episode drops. Not impossible.

Not sure, Jess. Send another one ready to drop. But from my last count, I think he's at like 78 charges felony charges at the moment so honestly he might get to triple digits it's not he's not all that far um there's yeah there's stuff like i i didn't realize well i i guess i knew intellectually that you could that you could be charged with conspiracy to do something and then also doing it but i don't think i've ever seen oh yeah like i i don't think i've ever seen a politician charged with both conspiracy and the actual doing of the thing yeah i hope at some point assuming you know we continue

to have something that resembles freedom of speech we'll get a good book about like how the whole process of them had like figuring out how and when and whether to actually like go after him um i mean obviously we're talking about both like the feds and um uh the da uh in new york uh but i am interested in both of those stories because it there has to be there have to have been some real interesting conversations um but yeah, we are right now. We're looking at him. He's about to be arraigned as we talk about this for inciting an insurrection at the Capitol. So so that's pretty cool. Mia, you wanted to start us off here, I think. Yeah. Yeah. And I think this is OK. So this is an interesting indictment in that, like, it somehow took them about two years to, like,

actually do the indictment. That's like, hey, it's illegal to try to overthrow the government by installing yourself as president. And in fairness, they don't have a lot of experience charging people with that one. Well, we should actually mention they should. Bush, well, here's the thing. Bush, Bush, we're going to talk about this more later, but like Bush actually got away with this, right? Like the last time a court ruled on whether a president can use the courts

to install themselves as president, the Supreme Court was like, yeah, that's fine. That's like, no problem. Like, yeah, it's fine. You can have a mob show up and disrupt the counting process and it's fine. But Trump like fucked up and didn't do it the way you're supposed to.

Yeah. And, you know, there's something sort of i don't know so there's something i was thinking about while i was reading this which is like the english language doesn't i think part of the issue here is like we don't i don't know the english language doesn't even like have a good word for like the kind of coup that trump was doing like there's a spanish word which is auto golpe which is like yeah it's Spanish, but you come in French. Yeah, it's got a great one. In English, they translate it to self-coup, and we're just like, ah, we're done. It's like,

no, no, that sucks. That term sucks. It's really bad. I wish I had a better Trump voice because then I could do... Autogolpe, what is that? Is that like at 7-Eleven, the big 64-ounce Diet Coke that you get? Yeah. But I can't do a good Trump, so that wasn't as funny as it should have anyway

whatever mia please continue with your heads we had we had it so you know i i think you know i i think it's worth kind of thinking a little bit and we're going to sort of come back to this as we go through this case but i think it's worth remembering that, again, like everything Trump is doing in this is based off of. Like is is is based off of the sort of Bush thing into in 2000, where he had a bunch of well, OK. So a bunch of Bush's political operatives stormed one of the places that was doing the recount in Florida and stopped them from counting the votes. And then they just delayed it and called long enough that he was able to get appointed. The Brooks Brothers riot. Roger Stone was a major part of that.

Yeah. So we've done this. We talked about this on the show like the end of last year um yeah but but again so the reason this worked though right is that bush made really really sure that there was like a sound legal case sort of behind this entire thing he he made he made really sure to like go through all of the proper like checks and balances and blah blah blah blah and ben trump just like didn't do this and the result of this is that jack smith like finally two years later jack smith who's this guy he was he was appointed by merrick garland to like take over these two justice department cases about trump uh has just indicted him with this stuff he has

so he's been charged with with three counts of criminal conspiracy and what I think is a count of obstruction. So I'm going to go through what he's actually been charged. And I want to note something real quick, which is that another reason why it worked for Bush and it didn't for Trump is that with Bush, it was legitimately the election came down to Florida, right? Like it. It was extremely close. It was really just a couple counties in Florida. With Trump, he was not trying to just sort of like jink part of a state. It was like it was a pretty –

Yeah, he took a massive L. Like Biden had a commanding lead. Yeah. Yeah. It was a big dub for Uncle Joe. Yeah. And, you know, so, yeah like obviously like trump like just fails at this spectacularly the law is finally coming after him they so they're charging him with uh conspiracy

to defraud the united states which again is the thing i didn't know you could do um and lan samstrong got that didn't he did he oh yeah because usps was his sponsor so he was defrauding the federal government he was doping yeah that's the the shit. Yeah, that's the don't do post office charges. Wow, so Trump's the first guy who's not rad to get charged with that. Sorry, James. Okay. I didn't mean it. I'm leaving my job.

Sorry, everyone. I'm out. No worries. So this this one is this is specifically like impairing the election, like impairing like the the the the votes of the presidential election. The first one is mostly we'll talk about this more in a bit, like the illegitimate electors thing that he did. The second one is just him being charged for they they finally found a thing to charge him for doing January 6th, which was they charged him with like conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding and then they got him also with obstruction obstructing an official proceeding which again seems like a kind of like this is i don't know it's not quite getting al capone for tax evasion but like you'd think they'd have something like more powerful overthrow the government

attempting to make yourself a dictator bonapart is well not really bonapartism but yeah yeah like seditions right there sedition that's a fine choice yeah right like it seems like a choice they they got him on obstruction okay sure i don't know like this is i feel like our our I don't know, our legal system seems to be sort of woefully unprepared for this. Well, yeah, it's not. Again, in fairness, everyone has before Trump was willing to play the game. Right. Like we are like obviously George W. Bush stole the fucking election. No argument there. So did Nixon. But they did it with enough plausible deniability, right? That the elite, that there was not a fear among the quote unquote deep state or the people, the elites in this

country that like, this would obviously be someone overthrowing the government, right? In Nixon's case, fucking LBJ basically refused to go after him for breaking the law and extending to vietnam more and committing treason because it would be bad in his view for the country horrible mistake obviously and with george w bush you know he had he had the court on his side and it like so there was there was enough plausible deniability that you know it was not like it is with trump where he was just like i'm gonna have a mob yeah like i'll take the capital you know it's a dude in a yat cat you know i i was thinking about this like the last time someone actually did something like this i i think it was the corrupt bargain in like 1873 we're just like like they there was this argument over the

wilmington coup yeah well i mean i mean like yeah but like like on on the presidential level of like yeah like literally someone like like rothruby hayes famously like they had basically this incredible thing where like both parties were like they couldn't decide who was supposed to count the votes and which whichever like part of the two parties counted the votes was going to declare that they won the election. And so they worked out this, like, basically they worked out this compromise where, like, the Republicans got Rutherford B. Hayes, like, in office, but they also ended Reconstruction. And that was a period that was long ago enough that, like, you could do that shit without, like, involving the courts or involving this sort of, like, massive state apparatus. And you kind of, like, can't, I don't know, you can you you can't outside of like illinois you can't really be that corrupt anymore you have to sort of like

i know there's a reason san diego's called and run by the sea mia yeah yeah look you have to you have to respect you know local culture with these kinds of things and And Illinois, it would actually be like an act of genocide to try to make Illinois politics not incredibly corrupt. Oh, yeah. I mean, that's the destruction of a people. Yeah, like one of the most hated political figures in like the entire history of Illinois was this like state senator who went down for corruption,

but went down for like $100 of corruption and despised, like one of the most hated political figures in Illinois because he only went down for, he only did $100 of crimes. Whereas like our current governor did like a bunch of really funny fraud and everyone loves him because it's hilarious. Where he like,

he like took all of the bathrooms out of one of his houses so it wouldn't be classified as a house. Ah, see, that's, that's the guy you want in charge of your legislative system. When he sees a loophole. That's the guy, if we ever have a corruption Olympics, that's our only chance at beating the Russians. Well, but here's the thing.

Illinois is going to be our dream team. Put me in, coach. Pritzker is the least corrupt governor I've had in my lifetime. This is the least corrupt guy. He is corrupt. A man who never shits. Yeah, I don't know. Illinois is sort of amazing.

We should probably get back to this stuff. So the last thing he got was they got him of conspiracy against rights. It was like a conspiracy against the right to vote and have your vote counted, which sure. Yeah. Pretty bad thing to do, I think. Conspiracy. Yeah. I mean, it's not good. Like all of the things that like they're accusing of, like he pretty clearly did. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to also talk about the way this has been being talked about in the media because one of the things happening here this is sort of a trend with all forms of like things that are in the written

language is that everyone only reads the first like maybe one chapter or like especially the first couple of pages of something from any like written document so this is why like all the like you know the like abandon all hope ye who enter here from Dante's Inferno that's the reason that's when everyone knows because it's in like

the first couple of chapters and in this one with this case the thing that everyone got to was there's this very early part in the indictment where the guy is like well yeah so like it is legal to like lie about the election like you have the free speech right to do that but then also trump knowingly lied about the election and use it to try to like fraud do fraud and everyone's getting really hung up on this thing about like trying to like the court having to prove that he knew he was lying which is kind of like an incidental thing to the actual like like the actual stuff he's getting charged for we'll get into it but like like it's not just that he was lying he was like actively trying to get a bunch of state officials to like appoint him yeah but but you know this is this has led to some just like absolutely hilarious shit from republicans who are like none of you can prove that trump

knew he was lying like there's there's no way to know trump is trump is so trump that like you can't you can't you can't convict him of lying because maybe you just didn't know. It's like, yeah, guys, that may not be the defense you think it is. No. This motherfucker's so dumb. This guy doesn't even know if he's full of shit. It's so good. It's like arguing that somebody who shoots two or three people to death is not guilty because he had his eyes closed, was pulling the trigger.

He didn't know where he was shooting. That's not a crime. The other one, the other one they've been pulling is the old, like, uh, he didn't know it was illegal, which I wish that was how the law works.

That is absolutely not how the law works. So, you know who made that? Not how the law works, by the way? Yeah. You guys. This is how you can tell

that like none of these people have ever like had to deal with the legal system at all ever, except for maybe like, I don't know, like one or two of these guys like probably caught

weird charges for like unregulated security selling or some shit. But like none of these people have. Who amongst us, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, so the Republican side of it's been very funny okay so before we get into what like specific things they're going after trump for i i want to like talk about what his actual what trump's actual plan was because i think a lot of it's kind of been forgotten so yeah the first plan and this is the part that is that there's not actually in this trial at all right like not really like there's there's his

initial plan to steal the election was that okay so one of the things that happened in 2016 uh was that like absentee voters like over like not overwhelming but absentee voters like swung enormously democrat right and that was one of the things trump had been using to prove there was like voter fraud or whatever um and then you know covid happened and so trump had this like you know had had a plan which was like on a what he's like okay so on election night it's going to look like i won because they're only going to have counted like they're only going to have counted the votes that were like done in person and those are overwhelmingly trump and i i remember like that night like having to tell all my friends like no no no these are not the real results this is this is this is just the in-person votes the absentee votes are coming yeah and his initial plan was to

try to just like declare victory that night basically try to declare victory immediately and then get everyone to stop counting and that didn't work like even like even fox news wouldn't eventually like stop playing along with it like this got them in huge trouble with trump because they like called arizona yeah yes he's still pissed about that yeah now and again like this this didn't work so they didn't like he's not being tried for that even though that was also very blatantly the attempt to steal the election what what they are charging him for was so after after so there was like that stuff and there was all these like stop the vote mobs that kept showing up in places. Yes, stop the count, right? Yeah, yeah, it was like stop the count, but then also in some places they were like, we need to count more.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was like, it was a whole thing. But, you know, once that fails, right, Trump and his coup plotters are like legal people are just sort of like freestyling it. And that's the part where you get to the actual conspiracies that is being charged with here. But before we get to those conspiracies, do you know what else is a conspiracy? The existence of products and services which you think will

improve your life. How cheap they are. That's the conspiracy. They've lowered the price so much it is illegal. Of all products and services. Wow. Fascinating. Deflation.

Incredible news. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests

and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run

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Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows as part of My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly.

I am talking to a felon right now. And I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his

piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. We're back. And yeah, I've got some good news for you.

We are all sponsored this week by three shipping crates of illegal contraband Marlboro cigarettes that our buddy Jimmy over at the docks managed to get. So six bucks a pack, guys. Six bucks a pack. Just send them to Jimmy at ProtonMail.com. He'll mail you cigarettes. You Venmomail.com. He'll mail you cigarettes. You Venmo him the cash. He'll send you some cigarettes.

There you go. This is probably less illegal than anything we're talking about right now. Yeah, almost certainly. Look, it's not against the law to sell cigarettes that you don't pay taxes on. I think we can all agree that that's fine. Actually, you can do that in an airport. There's God's law and man's law. I think you legally can do that

if you're selling it in an airport. If you're selling it in an airport? Yeah, if it's duty-free, right? And I, because I have such a childlike imagination, the whole world is really my airport. Ergo, we can always sell tax-free cigarettes here at Cool Zone zone media that's why we have the uh the small plane that takes off from robin's house every day it's like a remote

control plane but that's right that's right from all tax law it it texts it technically counts uh and we are also allowed to run those uh those joe camel ads again um so you know everybody who's 90s nostalgic there you go once you made it all right so the first conspiracy thing that he's getting charged with is the like fake electors thing he also has like six unnamed co-conspirators and we know we probably know who like five of them are so the first one obviously is rudy giulianiiani, who is having the time of his life? Question mark. He is. He is.

Like he is melting. So funny. TV. Like it's the second one's probably John Eastman. And this is interesting because Eastman is the guy who he's like the legal mind behind January 6th. Eastman is the guy who he's like the legal mind behind January 6th. He's the guy who like thinks that he's found a loophole in the law that allows like the vice president and refuse to certify the election. Yeah.

And so this is I don't want to make something clear at the outset. Like he does not have like Pence does not have the power to do this. You're not allowed to do that. No, no. Like you can't do this. Right. Like like this is pence had gone along with this that would have been a coup right like that yeah they call this yeah that would have been a coup like there's not a clause in the constitution that says unless this guy doesn't want to have an election this is not right it's some like admiralty flag t tier fucking legal conspiracy that's that's not really yeah yeah guaranteed it came from reddit before he found it that's where it originates it's some

it's some real bullshit like this somehow again this is the legal basis for what they were trying to do on january 6th i i don't know words words fail me like tragedy is farce of the brooks brothers riot i guess but like this is like farce number three i don't know i think the first one the first one was nixon extending the vietnam war in order to uh uh win his election the farce was the brooks brothers riot and now we're at like lead poisoning brain damage yeah like this is this is this is marks failed to consider that you could have a third or fourth farce like he only got to one so speaking speaking of farce so the third the third uh co-conspirator is probably sydney powell who apparently the the last i heard about sydney powell i he's currently like owns a bed and breakfast and spends all of his time talking with his guests about the Trump administration.

So things are going great for Sidney Powell, who is one of Trump's lawyers. More or less what I would like him to do. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you can just keep sticking to doing that. Yeah. Great. Yeah.

So the fourth guy is Jeffrey Clark, who doesn't really matter. The fifth guy guy i just want to like okay so i i partially there's only like only really juliani eastman and powell matter but i the fifth guy is named kenneth chelsea bro which that's okay no you're fucking with us now that's not a name that's not a name i got nothing i don't know like that is not a name they they have like dug up members of like the old chelsea aristocracy that like i i i got nothing i don't know i've never i've never been this angry in my life that's not a naked shit up now like that's that okay it's not cheese bruh it's chelsea bro i can't see this person's name i've

no idea it's chese bro chesa bro i don't know there's no version of how you say that it's like a town outside of boston yeah i i know i know something is central california I know a guy from Central California with that name. Is he bro? Okay, so we should also... She's... Really? That's so bad. Yeah, no, I know a guy from Central California with that name. That is viscerally upsetting.

Okay, so speaking of viscerally upsetting, so we should remind everyone how... we should remind everyone how American elections work because it's really one of the worst systems anyone's ever developed. So, okay, so like as most people probably know, you don't directly elect the president. What you do instead is each state, like you vote. Well, okay, so sorry. Let's write this up.

Each state selects electors. Now there's nothing in the constitution that says you have to select electors by like voting for them. It's just that every state chose to do that. There's like a whole crank theory of Republican, like legal jurisprudence where they're trying to use that to be able to just like, not basically not have normal elections,

but you know, so because this is like dog shit, right? Like it's bad for a number of reasons. The first obvious one is that like this means the U.S. does not have one person, one vote at all. Like the entire American political system is just a giant violation of the principle of one person, one vote, because people's votes are just worth more than others because of the electors. person one vote because people's votes are just worth more than others because of the electors the second thing that's really bad right is again like those individual electors can technically vote like however they want to so you could you could be an elector who's supposed to vote for someone and then vote for someone else it's actually happened although it went i'm not

mattering but like one of gore's electors i think defected to uh what's his name? The third guy he ran. I can't remember his name. Someone in 2016. The Green Party guy, yeah. Someone did it in 2016 as well, I think. Rogue Elector. There's a little bit of like, I don't know if this is a good, I was going to talk about

the difference between procedural and substantive democracy. I could talk about it now or later, but I think it relates to what you're talking about. Sure. Yeah. Let's do it now. Yeah. There were 10 in 2016. Wow. Faith Spotted Eagle is the one I'm thinking of. Someone voted for Faith Spotted Eagle. But yeah. Okay. So one thing I wanted to talk about with relation to what you're saying, Mir, is the difference between procedural and substantive democracy. Because I think's really important uh when we're looking

at like what's happening in the u.s so when we talk about like a lot of this language comes from the like 1990s obsession with transitions to democracy that happens a lot in political science right like and history to an extent where we were looking at these like post-Soviet countries and post-colonial countries. And as they like move towards this, like what's considered a democracy in the kind of neoliberal frame, we talked about procedural and substantive democracy. So procedural democracy, the things which have the institutions and procedures in place, you vote.

There are elections, the ballots are cast, and that results in this case, the electors going to the Electoral College and the Electoral College delivers a president. And then substantive democracy is where people have a substantive say, a means of deciding who is in charge, right? Who runs a state. And the US is moving further and further from substantive democracy. of democracy. It's been interesting to see people bringing that, because of course that 1990s discourse was centered heavily in the US as the paragon of democratic virtue. And then it was used to condescend to other countries and be like, oh, you're not a fully consolidated democracy. Linz and Stepan, if people want to look up Linz and Stepan, if they're really bored, they can. But they talk about a consolidated democracy being one where uh democracy is the only game in town and all of this stuff like was heavily based on kind of aspiring to be the u.s right countries in africa eastern europe aspiring to be an american democracy and it's very funny

now to see that the u.s doesn't fit most definitions of a substantive democracy or a consolidated one like it's not the only game in town for millions of americans anymore no and it's highly amusing my my other favorite musings what i would call it absolutely james yeah it's funny it's just funny nothing bad will happen it's fine yeah my my other favorite example of like those of like how bullshit those like democracy theorists were was like every single one of those people the moment the zapatista uprising happened just like immediately shut the fuck up and never mentioned it ever like it just does not come up like in the thing oh yeah i mean a lot of the like yeah a lot of them really had a lot of them also were like too busy looking at things and like in spain right people looked at spain's quote-unquote transition as one of the earlier models

and then went on to model things off Spain. Spain is at best an incomplete transition now. People paying attention to the most recent elections will maybe have noticed this. Spain is not a country where democracy is the only game in town. They had an attempted coup in 1981. And so they're kind of looking backwards of something because Spain was satisfactorily democratic for them,

but it certainly wasn't for a lot of Spanish people. So yeah, not a big fan. Yeah, and I don't know about you guys, but I think there's nothing wrong with the way we decide things or democracies. God gave it on the tablet to some old white men who had slaves and that is good great yeah it's been funny also

watching those people trying to like actually go back and look at like at what point the US became like a democracy in any real sense and it's like they really like if you're gonna do this seriously you cannot argue that it was a democracy until like after Jim Crow. So like really like the sixties and even then.

So like, I don't know, like I, there's been a lot of attempts to sort of make this stuff work, but then also you have all of this bullshit where again, like because, because it's based on this elector shit, you can like,

this is how Trump was able to like to try to do all of this very weird stuff. And this is the sort of you know this is the part where we get into like trump's second plan which his plan and this is the one he's actually getting charged for so his thing was he was trying to get states to just like ignore the popular vote and decertify so there's this process where like there's a day on which like the like electors that do the electoral votes are like certified and so his he was trying to do a couple things before that he was trying to like get the actual electors like not certified and then have like another set of electors appointed that would vote for him and then that didn't work

and so he was trying to get so like on that same day there were also a bunch of slates of electors that like like did like a fake appointment thing basically like trying to claim they were the real electors in a bunch of states yeah in michigan or somewhere right okay yeah places i think yeah and this one was funny too because like some of the people who were like who like were on these slates like didn't know that they weren't the real electors like they had just been told that they were the real so they like unwittingly were like part of this coup attempt um and so the the indictment so that that that's the second part and so that also was kind of falling apart and so then

we get to the sort of third thing which which is this entire effort to get Mike Pence to not certify the election. So there's two versions of it. One was that he doesn't certify the election at all. And the second version of the conspiracy was like, so there were these states set up where Trump had put like a second slate of electors. And the plan was to like have,

those were like contested states. And so the plan was to have pence say that like none of those states had actually validly selected electors so their votes don't matter and then just like say that trump won the election and none of this makes any and the reason this is like incomprehensible is it like none of this makes any sense right like this is all just gibberish it's bullshit yeah but but into this mess drops Danny Quayle. Now, I think everyone, so you two know who Danny Quayle is. I'm realizing I was running into people when I've been talking about this sort of story

I'm about to tell who don't know who Danny Quayle is, and I feel I have a moral obligation to introduce this guy. Yeah, give the man his full name here james danforth quail oh god i didn't know his name was damn forth oh yeah yeah oh yeah normative determinism at its finest yeah so quail i think is probably most famous for so he was he was george hw bush's vice president right and so okay so i i want to tell the actual false so the the common version of the story that happens is that he doesn't know he didn't know how to spell potato and that's true but the actual story is so much funnier than that so okay

quail is so okay so quail is george hw bush's vice president right it's 1992 like the like they're on they're like starting to go into election season yeah and quail goes to like this spelling bee that's happening in this elementary school to promote some random horrible idea horrible idea yeah and so yeah so he asked this kid he asked this kid to spell potato and the kid walks up and the kid spells Paedo correctly. This kid is like eight. Right? This is like a middle school. This kid is like tiny. And then

Quail looks at it and looks at apparently they had a card that was spelled wrong but Quail doesn't realize that the card is spelled wrong

so he goes to the board and he looks at the kid and goes well you need to add something to the end of it. And this kid is just baffled because she spelled the hito correctly.

What do you mean? What the fuck are you talking about? The vice president of the United... That kid's an anarchist now. There's no way to... Someone did a follow-up with him. Apparently, he's a small business owner or something, and he just tells the story all the time.

Very funny, though. But, okay, this was a period of american history kid like this like is one of the reasons that george hw bush didn't win re-election like this broke 12 unbroken years of republicans winning every single election based he does seem like a plant like i don't know if you've got some of his other ridiculous oh yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna read some of his quotes okay so so unless you think quail just had like one flub like no he's just like this uh i'm gonna read a couple so there's like a bunch of people who spent a bunch of time extensively documenting dan quail quotes because that's what you did on the internet in the 90s

yeah okay the holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history i mean this century's history but we all lived in this century i didn't live in this century huh i feel like i want to diagram that one like what what were you trying to get across there dad yeah well cocaine was really kicking in you know he has this kind of in the same way that trump has like this can't in which he does all of his incorporeal things like quail also has a can't like he does this kind of his incomprehensible things like Quail also has a cant he does this kind of thing where he does the like he says a sentence and then he says I mean something else I mean something else

and none of them follows from the other one so he has one of the other famous ones Hawaii has always been a pivotal role in the Pacific it is in the Pacific it is a part of the United States it is an island that is right there wow fuck me that's very quail famously went on to write large portions of

wikipedia so that that makes a lot of sense it's so good yeah quail's own wikipedia calls him an intellectual lightweight and incompetent individual well it's just not untrue. Pretty hard to argue about that. Mars is essentially in the same orbit. Mars is somewhat the same distance from the sun, which is very important. We have seen pictures where there are canals, we believe, and water. If there is water, that means there is oxygen.

If oxygen, that means we can breathe. Oh, good. Wow. There's a lot of science coming out of that statement this man was vice president of the united states we we have a firm commitment to nato we are a part of nato we have a firm commitment to europe we are a part of europe sure yeah he's so good well no you see mia you just you you were not you are not up on your geographic history because the mountain ranges in Scotland are the same mountain range as the Appalachians. So technically, we are in Europe.

In many ways. Man, I've been styled on by Dan Quayle. There you go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, okay, other than the fact that it's really funny, like, why? Why am I talking about Danny Quayle? And the answer is that, OK, so remember, Trump needs for his like completely nonsense thing to like even kind of go to the next step of failing. He needs to convince Mike Pence to not certify the election.

And Pence is like legitimately going back and forward on this. He's like he's having this like moral dilemma and like he like wants to do it, but he's having problems making decisions. And so he calls his old friend Danny Quayle. And I think this is a really fascinating moment of sort of, you know, I think it's a really fascinating indication of like how off the rails everything has gotten since really since 2016. But like 2020 sort of just

like accelerates the magnitude of this which is that like quail is like the human symbol of the decrepitness of american politics in the 80s and 90s right like this is a guy who makes like senile reagan look like a genius and in 2020 in 2021 like pence is supposed to be one of the like quote-unquote adults in the room in 2020 and Pence goes to Quayle and is like uh what I need I need to do this coup like I don't have a choice I'm under so much pressure and Danny Quayle the man who can't spell potato instantly is like no what are you talking about like you can't do this coup like you obviously can't do this and and Pence Pence just like argues with him he's like no no like he keeps arguing with him

like no i have to do what i have to do and quail's like what are you talking about like of course you can't like not certify the election like what what are you doing and this actually works this convinces pence not to not to actually certify the election and so you know we we have reached a point in history where like you can make an argument i don't think it's correct but you can make an argument that danny fucking quayle saved the american republic yeah he saved us from two republican presidents he's done better than hillary clinton i just i i don't know. I can't get over that. It's just like Danny Quayle is the voice of reason and moderation and

like, oh God. I don't know. This country. It's bizarre. The whole thing is bizarre. Yeah, it's bleak. We should do an ad break. I don't have a pivot there. Speaking of Otto Golpe,

gulp down these products automatic magical hey guys i'm kate max you might know me from my popular online series the running interview show where i run with celebrities athletes athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout?

Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Welcome. I'm Danny Thrill. Won't you join me at the fire and dare enter Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows, presented by iHeart and Sonorum, an anthology of modern-day horror stories inspired by the legends of Latin America. From ghastly encounters with shapeshifters to bone-chilling brushes with supernatural creatures. I know it. Take a trip and experience the horrors that have haunted Latin America since the beginning of time. Listen to Nocturnal Tales from the Shadows

as part of My Cultura podcast network. Available on the iHeartRadio app. Apple Podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now. And I cannot decide if I like him or not.

Those were some callers from my call-in podcast Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommate's toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they won't let me move out of their house. So if you want an excuse

to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head, search for Therapy Gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it. And we are back to a bit more fraud. So, okay, the other thing is being just yeah this is actually wait is this actually fraud no i guess this is the fraud one it's still technically a fraud one so yeah that's part of it at least yeah so so we've reached the like third and fourth indictments it's actually really funny if you go read the thing all of the actual text of the indictment with the evidence and stuff is all under the first indictment and then the second third and fourth ones are like yeah go

refer to x paragraphs of like the first one so there's the second third and fourth like charges are like like one paragraph long but basically this is about the january 6th stuff they spent a bunch of time listing like all of the random stuff that trump said about the election that was not true they also have a very funny list of all the people who told him that like this stuff wasn't true which includes mike pence uh the leadership of the justice department the director of national intelligence the head of cisa which is uh the department of homeland security cyber security agency a bunch of white house attorneys like his own staff uh and all of his politicians backing him he's like every single person was like this is not real and trump was

like no no no hold on we can still win the election you know okay so there's like that stuff and then there's there's the stuff that like he like specifically did to like try to pressure these state politicians into like certifying him as president so like they he had a bunch of calls and like his like staff people had a bunch of calls we were like they tried to get uh like the the speaker of the house in arizona to do this by saying there was voting fraud and the speaker of the house was like okay there's no we haven't found any fraud um i i'm gonna i'm gonna read from the thing co-conspirator 2 concluded that he quote didn't know enough about the facts on the ground in arizona but nonetheless told the speaker of the house to decertify and quote let the court serve it out sort it out so again this is this is this is the roger stone strategy but done like yeah so unbelievably poorly yeah

yeah and so and there's a bunch of sort of like list there's like all this list of like this like trump does like identical stuff in like michigan and pennsylvania there's like that phone call in georgia he gets in trouble for uh stuff in wisconsin there's another thing he tried to do which i actually hadn't heard about this one i i don't know it's either i just forgot it or i just never ran into it where he was trying to like use justice department letterhead and like the the signature of the acting attorney general to like send the fate like pretend to send a letter from the justice department to a bunch of states to tell them there was fraud and get them to like amazing my mom says i'm sick and I can't come to school

yeah and the funny thing is the problem is so they try to there's a lot that's funny about that I'm not gonna I'm not gonna see yeah we gotta pluralize that fucker it's so good and the scheme falls apart because again the guy Trump appointed as the acting attorney general is

like no like you cannot use my name to say the fake letter for the justice department and they keep trying to argue with him and it keeps not working and this is where we get to another part of this whole thing that i this has been getting a lot of press attention and it's interesting but i think there's more to the story that people haven't been talking about which is so the guy who's probably jeffrey clark like gets into an argument with the deputy white house counsel and the deputy white house counsel is you know is telling is telling jeffrey clark who thinks one of trump's lawyers is telling him like like trump can't stay in office like there's no version of this where trump stays in office after like january

20th and he says quote there would be riots in every major american city and then the guy who's probably clark says quote well deputy white house, that's why there's an insurrection act. And this is where we need to get to another couple of interesting parts of the story. One, you know, to be clear, when you're saying that's why we have an insurrection act, you're saying we can just shoot those people. Yeah. In the streets. Yeah. Like that is what that statement means. Yeah. Like that is what that statement means.

Yeah. And that is what the stakes were. Everybody was out in the streets in 2020 was aware of this. Yeah. And, you know, this is the thing I kind of want to talk about, which is that like part of the reason this coup fails is that. So Trump is talking about doing the Insurrection Act twice in 2020. Well, I guess once in 2020, I think this might have been the second time I've been 2021. But like in that last year, he tries to use the Insurrection Act against the uprising in 2020.

And he's like his chief of staff, like like a bunch of like a bunch of generals, his own chief of staff, like tell them to fuck off. And that's like part of the reason why this didn't happen which is interesting because like i don't know like there there have been like there have been times where the u.s army like has been deployed against like riots like this right like this happened this happened in the 90s but in this situation the army just like absolutely completely refused to play ball um and we've we've gotten some really kind of interesting so so the other thing that's happening here is like just the complete hollowing out of journalism as an institution where all of these people know all of the all these journalists like know a bunch of incredibly important stuff and they won't tell anyone because they they're

saving it for their books yep and you know and it's like among the things that we sort of learn in this period is like there's basically this like i don't know what you call it like you could either call it like a quad um for it basically or you could call it like a national unity government which is in power for two weeks basically where um pelosi miley who's a the chief of staff who's a general like mike p Mike Pence, Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell basically are like running the government for two weeks because they've successfully put together this counter coup where the military has refused to like go along with Trump, like trying to overthrow the government. And this is very deeply, I don't know, there's some very deeply interesting stuff here where there's there's a book called i alone can fix it which a couple of journalists are coming out with and there's some interesting quotes from it from specifically general mike miley who's like the chairman of the joint chief of staff who was appointed by trump by the way

this is this is an important thing because like trump there's like seven guys who are like absolute ghouls like mike pompeo like caa gh are, who just like look at this coup and are like, no. And Miley stuff is wild. Like Miley directly can like in meetings, he's comparing Trump to Hitler. He says, quote, this is a Reichstag moment. Miley told AIDS, the gospel of the fearer. And there's, there's, I talked about this a little bit ahead of earlier there are some unconfirmed reports that miley and a number of other like u.s military high-ranking officers

basically had like a book club and one of the books they went through in 2020 was a book about the nazis rise to power in germany i i kind of suspect it might have been death of a democracy because that was big at the time but it would make sense because he's talking in substantial detail about – like he's very – you can tell he's very focused in this period on Nazis taking over the government. Like he talks about it a lot. Yeah, and he has – so I'm going to read a couple other quotes from him. He has this thing where – I think he's talking to Pompeo here where he's talking about like this coup and he says, they may try but they're not going to fucking succeed.

He told them, you can't do this without the military. You can't do this without the CIA and the FBI. We're the guys with the guns. And he's right about this. And this is a really crucial thing that Trump fucks up about how to do a fascist coup is that you can't actually like fascist coups don't work without the at least passive acquiescence of the state. Like if the state tries, if the army tries to stop you your coup is not going to work right unless like unless you're someone like franco who like has control of a huge portion of the army if you try to do one of these sort of weird paramilitary things

and the army just says no like you're screwed and this this i think was always part of trump's sort of problem was that like you know if he'd sort of spent his time consolidating the kind of like fascist institutions, the neocon set up, right? Like if he'd spent his time, like, you know, actually like actually developing loyalty in the FBI and the CIA and like going through and like turning department of homeland security, like, you know, into like an even more fascist organization, he might been able to do this but like at the very end like you have miley saying this is this is on uh this is on exercises right before the inauguration uh he says quote here's the deal guys these guys are the not are nazis they're boogaloo boys they're proud boys these are the same people we fought in world war ii miley told

them everyone in this room whether you're a cop whether you're a soldier we're going to stop these guys to make sure we have a peaceful transfer of power we're going to put a steel ring around this city and the nazis aren't getting in like you know what credit where it's due that's a pretty cool thing to get to have said yeah yeah somehow like all somehow basically him and zukov yeah it's like all of like suddenly like the american like all of like the senior command of the american army suddenly turned into like 1942 american generals it's like i don't know i i guess again i i try to say this i try to bring this up a lot to more radical folks. If you want to get a lot of the centrist lib types on your side,

you could do a lot worse than hearkening back to that whole World War II thing. There's a lot of propaganda invested in getting guys like Millie to want to feel like that. And in this case, it worked out for us. Yeah, apparently. I don't know. Lib Antifa has pulled one out i guess uh it's certainly better than if the head of the military had been like i guess i'm fine with this so i don't

know whatever like i don't know yeah i i have no complaints re his performance in that specific moment uh other than that they did actually get in so you know whatever like yeah but that was afterward right between the 6th and the 20th yeah yeah yeah they were drilling for the inauguration when they stuffed the capital with national guard soldiers like a sausage yeah just i guess it worked i don't know my other conclusion from this though is when when you have reached the position of like you're trying to figure like your top generals are trying to figure out who has enough guns to figure out whether a coup can happen like things are things are not good this is a this is a a bad sign tm for no it's and it's not good

like as nice as it is to hear that Millie understood the stakes, which is good. It's good that he understood the stakes given his position. It's not good that like so much came down to the fact that a couple dudes didn't suck in this specific way. Yeah. Like that's not a great sign for stability of democracy. No one voted for Miley. Right.

That's unsettling yeah the the whole democratic system was more or less to the edge of failing and a dude who was good at war stepped in and was like yeah okay we don't want to do this this is one of those things right we know what this looks like with bush we're like if if you actually know how to press the buttons of the system right you can do this but trump Trump just didn't have enough control of the state apparatus and tried to sort of replicate it with street violence, and that just didn't work. Trump's problems here are twofold. One of them is that he is not capable of loyalty to anyone or anything else, whereas a guy like George W. Bush is, which means he's capable of getting teams

together who are willing to go out on a limb for him to some extent. And Bush also is system loyal. Now, that doesn't mean he's not willing to fuck with the system for his own benefit, but he has a vested interest in the system continuing more or less the way that it has, right? As opposed to breaking it specifically forever for his own power. He was not a guy who was interested in staying in office for him. I don't say this to defend the man. He killed hundreds of thousands of people, minimum. But because he was willing, he had a degree of loyalty to the system as it was seen by most people, there was not this kind of rebellion

from sort of within it, right? Like, in fact, that deep state was largely sympathetic with them. They were willing to go with like the fucking around with the election, as long as, you know, the broader structures that had given them a place to exert power and influence remained intact. And Trump was basically saying, if Milley had gone with this, if everyone had gone with this, what you are accepting is that nothing matters but this guy's opinion, right? There's not actually any sort of power in the system that you have risen to the top of. There's not any sort of power in these unelected structures within the system that you clearly think are important because they are

where you have seen success, right? And frankly, people aren't willing to do that sort of thing. And also, you're fighting against a lot of people who want to, whatever fucked up things they are willing to do, they have a lot emotionally invested in the idea that they serve a democracy. Now, is that a morally flawless idea? Are they always in fact, like, no, of course not. Like everyone, they're hypocrites to certain extents, but you can't push them that far. Like Bush pushed them about as far as you can push people like that, right? Like Bush pushed them about as far as you can push people like that, right? This – Trump didn't have any respect for making it – for dressing it up right, and he didn't have any respect for the thing that they were a part of. And so, of course, a lot of them didn't go with him.

Yeah, and I think this gets back to something I've talked about a bit with what the neocons were doing, which the neocons are about like the state of exception, right? They're about this, like, you know, we've had the war, we now have the war on terror. We've had nine 11.

And that means the countries in this state where like, we have the power to be like the people inside the system who are outbound by it. You can do whatever you want. And like, that is descriptively right. Like this is, you know, both Carl Schmidt,

the like Nazi jurist, like that, that was explicitly like his model of how you do fascism. Yeah. And it's also like something, you know, and, but – but the thing is, again, that's a very different thing than what Trump was doing. Trump wasn't doing this thing where he uses the apparatus of the state. He was doing a different kind of basis of fascism. This is what a lot of people don't understand about the Nazis is that when Hitler took power and for the first half to two-thirds of his time in power, he was very much concerned about the military and constantly making exceptions and altering and moderating aspects of his policy in order to keep the military on his side. And that continued depending on kind of where you want to put it, either up until the

Anschluss or up until the invasion of Poland, really, to a significant extent. Whereas Trump did not, again, there's no sort of, he has no sort of respect. And I'm not saying, you should have respect for the military. No, no. But I'm saying that because he did not – No, just that power. Yeah, the fact that he did not or the FBI for that matter is one of the reasons why this didn't work for him. Yeah, and this was always kind of a problem that he has ideologically, which is like one of the things that makes him popular is he was running like against the deep state, right?

Yeah. Like, yeah, like I know lots of people – like I don't like the intelligence agencies, like the intelligence agencies can fuck off. The fact that like the fact that the intelligence agencies finally found a coup they wouldn't support, like it's not a sign that they're good. But the problem is, yeah, but like the problem with this is like Trump is, you know, he wins the primary like very explicitly by running against a lot of the like, like by name running as neoconservatism. You could argue the extent to which he actually broke with it in terms of like appointing like gina he puts a bunch of neocon ghouls like back in power right but like like nominally he's running against that specific thing and it turns out that like if if your appeal is you know being like a nominally

anti-systemic force and then you have to try to use those systems to stay in power it's like well you know this this happens like now you are getting charged by jack smith and you have like 78 counts against you instead of you are now the fuhrer yeah a lot of it is you know first off people want to be able to believe nice things about themselves and trump didn't really give them the option of doing that and second of all people who are achieve this kind of level within the system want you to treat the system they've succeeded in as if it matters like it's that simple i think in a lot of ways they want to feel validated and valued and he was just like no fuck you all i'm doing my goo and then was genuinely shocked when people like well we ain't coming with you bro yeah i don't i really feel no no desire or no uh no impetus to move with you yeah i don't anyway this is a good idea yeah so i don't know

we'll we'll see what happens with these indictments i i don't know i i genuinely this is the important yeah this is the one that like of all the indictments this is the one that matters yeah i don't know we'll we'll see if this actually substantively plays a role in the election i mean i don't think there's a possibility that i can cost trump the primary like but no no no no yeah nothing nothing but like a heart attack could do that yeah um but it is i i will say i had some other stuff prepared that I think we'll move to another episode just because of how this has gone. But I do want to note, I want to talk a little bit at the end here about, is this going to

matter? Like electorally for Trump, right? Is this going to have an impact on his chances of winning the general? I think we're all agreed it's not really worth talking about the primary. He's going to win the primary barring an act of God. And that's where, yeah. Anyway, so there's some info on this. Basically on March 29th, he was averaging about 45% in national primary polls, which I'm bringing up here because they help show the impact of the indictment, because you don't have a lot of national polls from that time, a national like general election polls.

So 45 percent in March after his first set of indictments in April, he was up to 54 percent. So that first set of indictments did not harm him, may have helped him consolidate power, may have like activated a chunk of his base. The second indictment did not work the same way, though. After June 8th, when it was reported that he was being indicted for the classified document shit and obstructing justice and getting them back- The second indictment hit the towers. Yeah. His average support in the primary fell, not by a massive amount, by a couple of percentage points, as did his average net favorable rating.

So you saw at least a, he hit a wall and bounced back a little bit. Not massive, not a sea change, but enough to show that it's not accurate to say voters don't care. It's more accurate to say, based on what we've seen so far, voters seem to care differently about different indictments. And I want to read a quote from a FiveThirtyEight article about his indictment polls here. Although we can't prove that all these shifts happened because of the indictments, the difference in reaction at least suggests that Americans are drawing distinctions between Trump's various legal troubles, and other polling backs that up. According to a YouGov Yahoo News poll from July 13th through 17th,

50% of registered voters considered falsifying business records to conceal hush money payments to a porn star to be a serious crime. But 64% of registered voters considered it a serious crime to take highly classified documents from the White House and obstruct efforts to retrieve them. Similarly, a June 22nd to 26th poll from the Associated Press NORC Center for Public Affairs Research found that only 35% of U.S. adults thought Trump did something illegal when it came to the hush money payments, but 53% thought he did something illegal with regards to classified documents found at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Florida. By this logic, this third indictment could be even more damaging to Trump than the one

involving classified documents. According to the same YouGovYahoo news poll, 69% of registered voters considered it a serious crime to attempt to obstruct the certification of a presidential election. And 71% said the same about conspiring to overturn the results of a presidential election. So it's going to take a – That's a troublingly low number, but yeah. Yeah, I wish it – it should be higher. Yeah, yeah. You would think.

But that does suggest that this could do him some damage. And especially since all of this is going to keep getting litigated, right? Like fucking people who have a decent lawyer and get arrested for like a DUI can drag a court case out for a year. This will be going on during the election. It may hurt him. You know, again, I'm not willing to like say, oh, this is going to fuck the make it impossible for me. I don't think the data suggests that. But it there's, I think, a pretty good chance that this is a net negative for him in terms of, you know, the election. lot of shit for a couple of years for not doing enough to actually seriously strike back at the Republican authoritarian outreach. And so it would be unfair of me to not say it's good that they're doing this. Like, it's good that he's facing legal trouble for what he's done. That's not enough to

stop him. That's not enough to stop the Republican Party. but it is good that this has been done yeah yeah progress shame it wasn't earlier should have been earlier you know yeah happening during the election is a major l in terms of how he can spin this yeah i think that was probably a strategic error um but grand juries take forever yeah yeah and the other thing that's happened is like there's been all of this time for sort of the republican pr machine to like spin all of the stuff that happened and we've you know and i think like part of what's happened in the last three years is like everyone kind of just like collectively forgetting what actually happened during 2020 and how absolutely nuts it was and everyone's sort of going back and pretending that

like things are sort of like normal now and it's like no no we're still we're still living in the eternal 2020 and everything is still absolutely nuts but i don't know i it's like there's been this incredible sort of like normalization effort both both by biden and also like by the republicans to make it seem like this was like a normal thing that happened as opposed to like the immediate wake of it where everyone was like what the fuck so hopefully not too little too late hopefully this does something but

we shall see yes indeed alright well everybody uh you know i guess go back to paying rent and stuff uh i'm sure 2024 will be fine yeah that wouldn't be any problem there's 15 more months of this by the way it could happen here as a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources.

Thanks for listening. Hey, guys. I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, Thanks for listening. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You should probably keep your lights on for Nocturnal Tales from the Shadow. Join me, Danny Trails, and step into the flames of fright. An anthology podcast of modern day horror stories inspired by the most terrifying legends and lore of Latin America.

Listen to Nocturnal on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast. And we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran

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