It Could Happen Here - Turkey’s Drone War Against the Rojava Revolution

Episode Date: January 8, 2024

James is joined by Berivan from the YPJ Information & Documentation Office to discuss the ongoing drone war against Rojava and how the revolution there is making progress despite this. Check out @ypj_info on Twitter.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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it's all packed with gems, fun, straight up comedia, and that's a song that only nuestra gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google Search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech Hello, everyone. Call Zone Media in the last few weeks and the last few months and the last few years. So we wanted to set that in context for you. And everyone's attention has been very much focused on other conflicts.

But that doesn't mean that this one isn't important. And it's one that obviously listeners will be familiar with. So we wanted to bring you an update on that. Welcome, Berivan. Hello. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm very happy to be here today. Good.

Let's start by, I think just in case people need a refresher or they, they haven't listened to some of the other stuff. Talk about what's happening in Brozova and, and why they, I guess why it's important and why it's unique and what makes it special. Okay. So actually right now in Rojava,

for more than 10 years, there's a revolution happening. I think most people heard that, for example, in 2011 and so on, there was like something called the Arab Spring. But actually in the same time, in this region in northern East Syria, actually also called like in the northern eastern part of Syria, there's a region called Rojava, which is like a big part Kurdish population. There's also Christian population, like Assyrian, Armenian population and also Arab population. Like it's a very colorful region, you can say.

like colorful region you can say so in this region 2011 in this time and then 2012 evolution started which is actually based on a long-term struggle of the kurdish movement and its experiences and the revolution was like mostly based on the idea to gain democratic autonomy and to gain democratic self-administration. Why? Because the Syrian regime, on the one hand, was very oppressive towards Kurdish people. And on the other hand, it was an authoritarian regime. So there was this wish to create something different,

which was actually created here in the region, in Rojava. Yeah. So I think this we can say first, what happened was that revolution started, and until today it's continuing. It's a very basic change of people's lives, we can say that happened here. There's democratic administration in all areas of life

and also, for example, a great deal of women's organizations to achieve women's freedom. So this revolution is based on these principles of democratic self-administration of women's freedom and also of ecology yeah perhaps you can explain people who aren't familiar that a little bit more about the women's revolution because i think that is something that's extremely unique and uh that people might not have like if they've heard of it perhaps they haven't really you know i think the mainstream

press doesn't cover it particularly well so if you could explain like maybe something about the co-chair system or the the relationship between yourselves and the yippee gay and and how that works yeah so actually i was uh just starting like speaking about the like when the revolution was happening so from the beginning on like women also took place in it like which was already the case in the kurdish freedom movement in general like that woman was like equally were equally taking part in it and also always founded their own organization like not like a substitute to a general organization or something like this but actually like their own organization that at the same time cooperate with the general organization or something like this, but actually like their own organization that at the same time

cooperate with the general organization. So there was already this principle of women's autonomy. So this was also adopted in Rojava. So in all areas, which also includes like political areas, areas of daily life, but also military field, women organized.

So actually in the beginning of the revolution, there were like the society's kind of self-defense forces building up. And in the beginning, there were already women in it. And then there was also the foundation of YPJ, like the People's Defense Forces. But after this, also the YPJ, the Women's Protection Units, were founded. So actually, it's like a fully autonomous women's unit that takes care of defending their homeland on the one hand but on the other hand also made like a great deal of change in the society in the daily life of women because in the region that was before like maybe to some like feudal or like because of the authoritarian state, like there was no protection for women's rights or something like this. And for example,

there was like this traditions of marrying a woman at a young age or something like this. So this was actually changed by this woman's evolution. Like the everyday life of women was changed and is still changing. Like it's still a struggle because it means changing the society in general. So in every area of life today there's an autonomous women's organization in Rojava existing, which makes this maybe the most profound women's revolution that until now profound woman's solution that until now is happening i think so it's like really important example for a woman everywhere in the world yeah very much so and it is a genuinely

profound change having spent a little bit of time there earlier this year and it's very notable as you spent a lot of time in that part of the world how different things are and then perhaps we should talk about uh the the battle against uh the so-called islamic state or dash or isis or whatever you want to call it in the role that um the ypg ypj and stf played in that um i can explain a little about about that fight and and the the fighting that happened and also like the tremendous number of people who who died fighting or were martyred in in the language that is used by the revolution about them but like uh in general i think um everyone in the world first uh listened to the name of the ypj's women's's Protection Unit, in relationship to ISIS. But actually from the beginning on

they fought against this kind of, let's say, different fundamentalist or mercenary groups that were existing in the region. And when ISIS was coming up, the biggest or most known battle that actually the world for the first time really saw was the battle for Kobani. and the YPG fought against ISIS and actually succeeded to defeat ISIS and to defend the city of Kobani, which was kind of like a breaking point where things started to turn around. Or we also have the point where, for example, Shangal was attacked, which is like in South Kurdistan.

It's not like in the Iraq region. It's not even the same region, but the YPJ also played like a role in opening a corridor for the people who tried to flee for the Yazidi people, who are people who have faced many genocides in history.

And in order to save them from the genocide of ISIS, the YPJ opened a corridor to help them to flee. So there are many stories. In the end, the liberation of the city of Raqqa, which was kind of known as the center of ISIS, which also we can say like the women's force played like a pioneer or vanguard role in this. So there are many examples where we can say like how deciding, for example, the struggle of the YPJ was for the defeat of ISIS. was for the defeat of ISIS. And I think, on the other hand,

we also have to say that ISIS is not completely defeated because it's seeing some support from outside structures, like from Turkey. So there are still some cells or, for example, there are a lot of detainees. Before that was happening, it tried to break out from the detention centers in 2022. So it's not like it's completely vanished from the earth, but the actual defeat was reached by the YPG and the YPG-4.

Yeah, I think it's very important to talk, like you spoke about those like uh incarcerated ice former isis fighters right and their attempt to break out i think that's maybe a good chance for us to talk about like some other former isis fighters uh and like starting in uh i think it was called turkey called operation peace spring i think think, right? Like the, these, these Turkish incursions into, into, into Rojava and into like, and, and into like Syrian territory. Can you explain a little bit about like how, I guess this will get us to the modern day and the bombing, but like, perhaps you can explain how this started.

Obviously, Turkey has been opposed to the Kurdish freedom movement since its inception, right since the very beginning and like last century. But perhaps you could explain like this series of ongoing Turkish aggressions against what's happening in Rojava now and like, how that began and how that's manifested itself uh over the years oh yeah it's like uh after isis was defeated to some degree actually turkey for itself started occupation attacks uh like in 2018-19 and uh started uh the occupation was first against Afrin and then against the Kani and Giresi which are all like very important regions of Rojava that are like

Directly next to the Turkish border like you see Rojava like directly in between Syria and Turkey like next to the Turkish border, so They directly attacked these cities next to the border, which actually most of Ujawar cities are directly next to the border. Yeah. And they occupied them. Yeah.

I think that's important to understand a little bit. Because actually there are Turkish plans to occupy the region along the border, not only the cities that they occupied until now. It was a very, very violent war with using aircraft and so on. Also in the last years,

Turkey very much invested into drone technology and so on. And they used also chemical weapons like very famous in 2019 the video of a young child named Mohammed went around the world that was burned by a phosphorus in Sereerekaniye in the occupation attack so like actually it's a war that is mostly fought also with most like dirty methods that Turkey is waging on the region and after this like we can say like after Serekaniye was occupied, Turkey actually continued to attack with a war that you cannot say like at this time

it starts and at this time it ends. It's more like continuous attacks. So on the one hand, some areas are always getting bombed in the last years. For example, with artillery shelling and so on, like Sherba next to Afrin or Ein Isar or Til Temel. The areas that are close to the occupied

areas where now Turkey and mercenary forces are stationed, they constantly attack more or less the regions. But also with the drone war like the first i think very like a clear example of what was the turkish strategy like in the last years was on the 23rd june 2020 when turkey killed three women of the Congress, there was a women's movement, like the civil women's movement,

in Kobani, in the village, which were all like, two of them were in the leadership of the civil women's movement, and one was just like a member, and they were sitting in the garden, and they were talking. And at this time, like a Turkish drone strike and they all lost their lives so like a lot of these kind of attacks happened after this like against and like let's say like civil leaders of society like politicians normal people also like on the 25th

of December actually also on Christmas in 2021 five five children like young people like youth from the youth movement were killed in Kobani

also like just when they were sitting in the garden like members of the youth movement were killed in Kobani also. Like just when they were sitting in the garden, like members of the youth center, like a Turkish stone struck three of them, like young girls. And this continued. Also, we can say like leaders of, for example,

YPJ also, like on the 22nd of July last year there was a conference happening for celebrating 10 years of women's revolution in Rojava and just on the same day

Turkey targeted the car of three YPJ members one of them was Jan Toldan, who also spoke on the same day on the conference. Actually, it's quite clear

what Turkey actually wants. They want to destroy the revolution that's happening in Rojava, like the women's revolution.

And in general, this change that is happening, they want to create like this fear to stay away to

obey to the Turkish occupation forces and they're using a lot of violence like also in the occupied

areas like the people who are right now living there they cannot speak their language they have to fear sometimes they cannot

close the house door sometimes people get uh like abducted like without anyone knowing why or where they go will they go to the prison will they be in a prison or will they be tortured or yeah like a very kind of oppressive regime yeah now in the occupied areas yeah those are people who like i've met uh when when they come here right people who have lost like i spoke to a guy a mayor a couple of weeks ago you know his father had been killed his uncle had been killed and like he was like what should i do should i should i wait to be like the last person in my family? And then who gets killed?

Like it's, it's very, the conditions for those people in the Turkish occupied parts of Northern Kurdistan are very, very difficult and oppressive. And I think like, just to build off what you said, like it's important that people realize that these killings of especially like people in the women's revolution but but also you know people in uh in in the rojava revolution more generally it's not um drone strikes are extremely targeted right like they can you follow a car from an event and strike it uh like it's these kind of, these things are not, it's not like artillery or mortars.

It's not like you're sending it into an area. Like they're extremely targeted to an individual or a group of individuals rather than, you know, random attacks. So this is a distinct choice that's being made. choice is being made. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field. And I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to

building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Check out betteroffline.com. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba.

He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with.

His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami. Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. first real job is that first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions like, how should I be investing this

money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k? Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like, every single year, you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise. Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, let's talk about the most recent bombings, because I think there were some particularly egregious ones, even by the standards of this campaign,

which has been pretty egregious from the beginning. but, um, December around the week of Christmas this year, um, just to give people a time sort of period, there was a bombings of a, if I'm not wrong, a printing press, a dialysis facility. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually there was, there was also another host another host like not hospital like as a big hospital let's say like a medical point also in Kobani where doctors was out borders I think it's

like kind of a known NGO they were also working there yeah at the oxygen center also so like medical places there were like normal factories of of food production like you said, the printing house. There were many places like this of daily infrastructure that were targeted like before already in October, infrastructure was targeted and also last year there was an attack like this. And every time at least 10 civilians got killed in all of these attacks. So now I think the overall number just of these three waves of attacks is already 31 killed civilians. So maybe drones are very targeted, but it's not like

Turkey doesn't want to kill civilians or takes care not to kill civilians. Last year there were examples of double tap attacks for example which are actually illegal so i think it's very important to say like also this targeting of medical points of medical infrastructure that what turkey is doing is not according to international law like that's not the case like turkey is kind of acting like however it wants targeting civilians creating like fear and also like uh in a region that is already poor yanni you have to say like the possibilities that have been created like like for daily needs and so on, for supplies of electricity, of like heating, fuels and so on,

for your house. Yeah. They are very affected like this right now. So like in general, there's like a big shortcoming of everything right now in Rojava. And just because of Turkish attacks. So this is actually affecting everyone and on the other hand Turkey tried to create like this fear like there's just some wave of attack

and just targeting everywhere so they want to displace actually the population and also to commit like the politics of the Turkish state especially against Kurdish people and also Christians was very much like potentially like genocide politics. Like, uh, it's not, uh, not like a limited attack or something like this. Like, uh, we don't think so. Yeah, no, it's not a, and like you said, they're very much unafraid of, of killing civilians in the process Like I spoke to a mother whose 15 year old son was killed in a drone strike

I don't think it's very hard to make an argument that 15 year old son was doing anything apart from being a 15 year old kid You know, it's not like this person is a legitimate military target That's the kid who played goalkeeper in his local football team And these double tap attacks like if people aren't familiar with a double tap attack it's when an attack happens people go to the site of the attack to render aid right an ambulance or perhaps just bystanders rendering aid or other military personnel rendering aid and then a second attack happens at the same place to to then attack the people who are rendering aid so

you spoke a little bit about like how they're trying to attack the whole project and not just individuals i wonder like the um the drone strikes do have like a they change the way things have to be done right like it's it's if things become unsafe like any way you can see the sky right like having a large gathering or certainly for people who are of more like higher status um it's uh it's dangerous for them to be out and about right is that fair to say yeah i mean on some level for sure the dangerous but on the other hand you cannot always be afraid like that's like a very twisted reality like for example now because these places were targeted for example the infrastructure that

you need for your life people actually started to stand like next to the electricity center to say, if we are all here, then they cannot target it. Which for sure is dangerous if you see the politics. They can. Yeah, because they've killed a lot of civilians, as you say. That's a very brave thing to do. Yes. Yeah.

Again, I think maybe we should explain actually is that it gets very cold in this part of the world in the winter because perhaps people will associate uh this part of the world with like the heat and uh hot summers but like you you have very cold winters especially in the mountains right yeah i mean rojava itjava is more or less flat, so it's not so cold, but still gets under zero degrees. So for sure you still need your house to be warm and so on, just to take care of basic needs. You need your car to drive somewhere maybe sometimes, at least some people need it for their work or like this there's a lot of basic needs that don't work if uh if all the infrastructure gets destroyed yeah yeah and i believe uh if i'm right in in saying this the one person already passed away because they couldn't get dialysis

at the dialysis center that was bombed is that right yes so as i said that one passed away afterwards i bought like a like emergency wise dialysis machine yeah which i think is very good for the sick people but i'm not sure because also if you don't have like a substitute if something happens like only one machine i'm not sure like how much it will actually take care of the needs of the people because i said it was like 70 or 80 sick people who were going to the center so it's not you yeah and like i don't think yeah i mean it's certainly not as good as having a proper center right like and there's no reason that's there's no world in which a dialysis center is a legitimate target

um or or printing press right like i think that that maybe points to what you're saying like if you're printing books about something sharing knowledge about something um and like perhaps one thing i think you were saying is it right that it printed textbooks i think it was like also printing textbooks okay like it was printing everything so it's also printing textbooks yes like for schools also it was printing textbooks yeah and we should point out that like you know i speak to kurdish people almost every day when i'm at the border and they many of them don't read and write in kurdish because in turkey that's not taught in schools right they don't have a chance to learn uh and and so like having those textbooks having that knowledge like

uh lots of my lots of my friends were saying that like the children because because our folks who went to school before the revolution went to school in Arabic so like the children are the ones who have like the formal education in Kurdish, you know, and they're building a, a generation that like speaks Kurdish and reads and writes Kurdish as a first language. And so like an attempt to destroy that isn't just destroying the factory,

right? Is that fair to say that it's also destroying like that goal of the revolution and more broadly like that attempt to uh like to have that education in kurdish and let children speak their own language in school yes i mean this is also part of like assimilation politics to deny people their own language which actually like the syrian regime also did like they only taught in arabic and now for example the system of the self administration allows everyone to learn in different languages like no there's arabic there's kurdish and even in the very last times

i heard that there will also be opened uh syrian again which is actually really important because it's like a language that is like very like most syrian people right now speak and write arabic so it could be really important also yeah yeah and it's i think it's really important to point out for people who aren't aware and often in the us media like uh roger is reported as like kurdish and like a kurdish area but it may have a majority of curds in some cities but like yeah there are syrian people there are arab people, there are Arab people, there are Armenian people, and they have that same autonomy, right?

To educate in their own language and to organize in their own communities. Yes, that's what the idea is all about. And I think actually, we saw this in the last time, there was kind of trying to create this image of Kurds against Arabs on the outside in the last time there was kind of trying to create this image of like kurds against arabs like on the outside in the international media which is absolutely not true like the sdf itself is like a majorly arabic force it's not majorly for just like if you see in numbers i think at

least so yeah it's like very equal like everyone who plays a role in it and who wants to participate can participate. And everyone has like autonomy also to organize inside of their own society or maybe religion or in which sense, like also Yazidi people, like Kurdish people who are of Yazidi religion. They also have their own organization here in Rojava. Yeah, that's very important. And their own movement in, uh, in their own area, right. Let the year be in, uh, that part of Iraq, like that's, um, like I guess an allied movement, that'd be fair to say. Yeah.

I mean, it very much follows the same idea and the same concept as yes and uh yeah i've also spoken to azuri people uh who have come to the united states recently and like yeah they uh under the under ics like they had absolutely like inhumane and terrible conditions and uh if it wasn't for uh the epigay then uh they like they wouldn't be the the you know they they the beginning of the uh their liberation i guess came from the epigay and something we'll maybe talk about uh another time because it's a long story i wonder yeah like obviously this isn't something that has been in the news as much because people have been so focused on palestine i wonder if it's worth discussing like the turkish state's completely like uh like two-faced approach right like on one hand they're saying uh we have to um like yeah it's unacceptable for the bombing of civilians in Palestine,

and, like, this is completely wrong. And then on the other hand, they're doing the same thing, right, like, on their other border. Yeah. So I think we have to anyway say, like, Turkey is not doing anything good for the Palestinian people. Turkey is leading Hamas to such an attack, like supporting Hamas and this like very violent attacks they made, which then was like the preset for the war of Israel and international forces against the Palestinian people. So actually who is like suffering from all of this is like the normal people

like which is true for israel and palestine so actually we have to say like what turkey is doing is against the people like it's also against the palestinian people and here like they have criticized so clearly for example israel is saying Israel is making occupation politics and so on. Still, Turkey also has ties with Israel. They are themselves occupying parts of Rojava. In the shadow of this attack, all the attention of the world was going into this region they attacked like also calculating that maybe people will not so much look to right now like at the same time

there's like another huge war going on in the middle east and uh they are making like very clearly like politics of occupation in afrin and syrkani and also demographic change so they are like displacing people and placing other people yeah that's very interesting yeah well displacing whom and then placing whom because i think that's important when we talk about that population and demographic change. Because they're not just displacing people randomly and replacing them randomly, right? Yeah.

So actually the people that are targeted the most are the Kurdish people in the areas or other people that are not aligned to the Turkish state. And then who they place, mostly you see all these mercenary forces that are actually aligned to Turkey or outside forces already. They are not ISIS, but they are a little bit similar to it. They are like mercenary groups that are more or less like... What road they go, it's clarified from outside forces.

So they are aligned to Turkey. And from these people, for example, their families were placed in the region. On the one hand. On the other hand, there were even examples where Turkey started to place some Palestinian people also in this region. Just who they think they can align to Turkey as a state and bring under their control, they were placing in these areas that's the same like this. Like to be able actually what is a part of Rojava, a part of Syria, to occupy it long term. Like to make this last, it's not like a short term plan. Like they want to stay in this area, it's not prevented, if it's not liberated again.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think like, again, like people, I think have become more aware in recent months, people are becoming educated on the situation in Palestine settlements. And, uh, it's not the fault of the people of Palestine that they're being like, uh, forced to be driven off their ancestral homelands. But what it does mean is that they could be mobilized by someone like Turkey to just do a demographic transfer somewhere else. That's not a desirable outcome.

Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists

to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com.

On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, a five-year-old boy floated alone in the ocean. He had lost his mother trying to reach Florida from Cuba. He looked like a little angel. I mean, he looked so fresh. And his name, Elian Gonzalez, will make headlines everywhere. Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian.

Elian Gonzalez. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian. Elian Gonzalez. At the heart of the story is a young boy and the question of who he belongs with. His father in Cuba. Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or his relatives in Miami.

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. At the heart of it all is still this painful family separation. Something that as a Cuban, I know all too well. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeart radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, I'm Gianna Parenti. And I'm Jimei Jackson-Gadsden. We're the hosts of Let's Talk Offline,

the early career podcast from LinkedIn News and iHeart Podcasts. One of the most exciting things about having your first real job is that first real paycheck. You're probably thinking, yay, I can finally buy a new phone. But you also have a lot of questions. Like, how should I be investing this money? I mean, how much do I save? And what about my 401k?

Well, we're talking with finance expert Vivian Tu, aka Your Rich BFF, to break it all down. I always get roasted on the internet when I say this out loud, but I'm like, every single year, you need to be asking for a raise of somewhere between 10 to 15%. I'm not saying you're going to get 15% every single year, but if you ask for 10 to 15 and you end up getting eight, that is actually a true raise.

Listen to this week's episode of Let's Talk Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We spoke a little bit about this ongoing hostility, right? And it can seem, for people out, I think people only hear about Rojava in negative, not negative terms is the wrong thing but like they only it only ever enters the american press these days when something happens right either an isis attack something about one of the account like a hall or a roger but like also things are continuing to progress right it's not just a place that is embattled and fighting to survive like

i know recently a new social contract was passed for instance so maybe you could explain a little bit about the progress that's still being made despite um this this ongoing like air war drone war and land war yeah so actually i think here in rojava we always follow this philosophy that we are not like sitting here and saying oh war will come towards us or like it will not be like we are very much hopeful and we are always working to

develop like even if these things are happening, these attacks are happening the revolution very very much developed and the society changed a lot already a lot of institutions have been built up that before were not existing

and so on. And as an outcome also of this, a new social contract was formed, which actually is like a very democratic process. Let's say if the state force, for example, has the constitution, the state less, the self-administration

has a social contract which actually is made by the people because until it was made there was years of discussion like there were so many meetings like all of the political representatives from the smallest to the biggest level

they were all part of the discussion and also the people themselves they could take part of the discussion and also the people themselves, they could take part in the discussion. So now this is for example ensuring a lot of important decisions and now the struggle that is before us, that we are facing now is to implement this social contract which is very important. It's also guaranteeing a lot of progress for women, it also guaranteeing a lot of progress for women it's guaranteeing a lot of progress for society so i think still now like it's a task to like see how how it can be implemented in all areas because it's always like a very lively process. Like it always needs the daily struggle, the daily work,

creating like everything from new. So there's a lot going on actually, we can say. Yeah, definitely. And like, definitely like it doesn't, I think it's easy. Like again, if we only report on this thing, when bad things are happening like to think that it's only bad but there's a lot of like people are still hopeful i think and hopeful for creating and spreading like this better future for themselves and the children and for the region

um which i think is it's really admirable one thing that i thought was really admirable is people will probably have seen it and but like they don't follow social media so much, the exchange of statements of solidarity between the KNDF, the Kareni National Defense Force Battalion 5, specifically in Myanmar, and the YPG and YPJ in Rojava. in um in rojava and and they've gone back and forth right but can you explain a little bit about obviously i know that the situation in myanmar is very complicated i know i've spent years of my life learning about it but um can you explain like the importance of that solidarity and like um also perhaps that like it's not it was a risk right for everyone to gather like this in in in the middle of the drone war to make the statement but can you explain like why that solidarity was something they felt was so important yeah i think in in general it's very important to say like the revolution it's not only like evolution for the people of Rojava itself, it has like a perspective more general like to

strengthen the friendship of democratic movements anywhere in the world. So for sure there's a lot of colors of movements, a lot of different situations in the world and some might also like let's say feel this solidarity very strong because actually they are also like let's say feel this solidarity very strong because actually they are also like in Myanmar like also facing for example a state system

which is very much influenced by fascism like for example we are facing Turkey or like in general this kind of oppression and trying to liberate from it so actually we are always trying to have this exchange

in general in the world and to have also to build how let's say like quality relationships, quality friendships with all kinds of democratic movement. For sure everyone is

acting on a different level and so on but this is like a big something really important for us in general and I mean like in the Rojava revolution there were also always people from the outside for example participating in it so there was always kind of the spirit

that this is like the revolution for the world like the Kurdish movement in general has like this character like an internationalist character so it's not something like uh let's say like far from from us like uh it's already something like very close to us to say like we stand in solidarity also with other liberation movements yeah i think it was very it was i know it's very much appreciated in myanmar because lots lots of people from there have reached out to tell me how how much they appreciated it and like

i think some of them have been in the revolution for 70, and, and the world has not paid attention to them. So they really appreciated that. Um, that's that solidarity. And like, I know that the solidarity runs a lot deeper than statements, but like we will cover the extent of that solidarity in another episode, because again, I think it, it, it merits its own recording. I wonder, uh, better van what. Obviously people will be listening. Right.

And I think a lot of people will be very supportive of the revolution in Rojava and they want to help it and see it succeed and certainly not to see. No one wants to see civilians dying in drone strikes. Right. Um, no one wants to see anyone drying in drone strikes but how can they if they are in the us or in europe or elsewhere in the world but not in rojoa um how can they help how can they support uh the revolution through its like difficult through these difficult moments right when people don't have electricity to heat their homes in the winter and things yeah i think uh there's a lot of possibilities like uh besides coming here which also support but i mean in general like you have all of this uh this possibility is like from educating yourself

what is this revolution actually about understanding it from spreading its ideas which is maybe the most important task may it be like spreading knowledge about the spreading knowledge also about the attacks that are happening clarifying what's happening and why it's happening to read about political backgrounds also of international politics it's very important to understand and also you can always like share for example let's say you have social media let's say you're part of a political movement or something you can discuss about it you can inform yourself about it you can make a presentation about it in your university like there are so many things that you can do like

you can read the book about it and make a book presentation like there's a million things a person can do or as you are doing you can connect to the Kurdish refugees or to the society Kurdish people in the diaspora in general like outside of Kurdistan wherever you might be yeah that's a possibility, like you can organize solidarity, also practical solidarity, also like, let's say like intellectual works, like write the text, discuss about it. Like maybe it's difficult in the beginning to understand some things or to gain like information, but right now there's actually a lot of information also available in english language i think yeah lots

yeah you could read for about a year non-stop i think and still not not have read all of it but are there books you've recommended a couple of books to me which i think have been really good and i've shared with my friends in myanmar and i know that they've enjoyed are there any books you'd recommend to listeners I think have been really good and I've shared with my friends in Myanmar and I know that they've enjoyed. Are there any books you'd recommend to listeners? I mean, in general, like this revolution is based on the thoughts of Abdullah Öcalan. So I think a good idea, if you actually want to understand like the ideological basis of it, about women's liberation, about how democratic society can be organized so actually there's like this book called of him sociology of freedom i think it's very important it's a little bit like understandable i think for someone who comes maybe from academic or from leftist or

from a democratic background i think they will read, they will be able to understand it, but there are also many other books that are translated to English or like texts that are available or in general there are books about the bourgeois revolution from people for example coming from the outside. I have to think right now in English, I'm sorry, I know there are some also some in the different languages about the women's revolution Mm-hmm. So I have to think with the way but I think that's also like as one called like the Politics of freedom or something and there are some books that were published because I would like to diplomatic conferences in Most of them I think happening in Europe, which after all, several like, uh, some like collections of, uh, discussion, uh, like, uh,

published, so I think that's also very available, but I'm sorry. I have the exact. Yeah, no, there's a good book called revolution in Rojava, which was translated from German that, um, like, I think it lays out like that, how things happen. It's a little bit, um, a little bit dated now. I think it was published in like 2016. So, you know, things have changed over a few years, but I think that's a decent book for people who are interested as well that i know a lot of people have recommended yeah and then i wonder like because this isn't being like i know you made the point earlier about like the world was looking at palestine like

when the tax in palestine happened i was in in kamishlo in rojava and like it's impossible for me to sell stories um it's impossible for me to sell anything to like big news outlets that they simply like don't think american people can care about two parts of the world at once i guess i wonder where people can follow and get updates like the it's a good uh social media or news outlets you would suggest for people who do want to keep in touch with what's happening. Yeah. I mean, we have like a Twitter, Facebook page as YPJ information on documentation office, like YPJ information.

Yeah. But also there's like other places like the Rojava information center, which is very much like independently accumulating knowledge and sharing in a way that I think is understandable for everyone. There's also from the SDF forces, the Press Center, which has also an English homepage, sharing

sometimes statements and concrete information. There's an international commune of Rojava which is sharing in English language a lot of information on Twitter and on their homepage.

So there's actually a lot of sources if you go and look for it that are very good I think also. Yes. And like on the ground

people who can show you what's happening. Yeah, I think that's wonderful. But if anything else you'd like us to get to before we finish up? Anything else you want people to know? No, I think it's very important to say again that

it's very, very valuable for the evolution of the world, for people to take part in actions, to make their voice heard, to organize, to make the evolution known, to get it to know for themselves. And that does actually make a very, very huge

difference. Like the struggle that people everywhere in the world are making for this revolution and that it needs it. It's very critical for the revolution that everywhere in the world it gets known and gets solidarity. That we see this as for the revolution that everyone's word gets known and gets like solidarity that we see this as very meaningful.

I think that's very important to understand. And besides this, I don't know. I hope, uh, yes, that's it. I think,

yeah, I think it's really good to realize that like, it's not, it's not, uh, it's, you know, it's,

it's a very worthwhile thing to do just to increase people's awareness and solidarity. Um, thank you so much for your time i know internet's not the easiest thing to come by where you are so thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us today thank you also for talking about this topic i was very happy to join and great Thanks so listening. and the new iHeart podcast, Sniffy's Cruising Confessions. Sniffy's Cruising Confessions will broaden minds and help you pursue your true goals. You can listen to Sniffy's Cruising Confessions, sponsored by Gilead, now on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

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