It Could Happen Here - What (not) to Wear in the Cold

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Starting point is 00:00:56 That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. Hi everyone, it's James, Future James, and I'm coming to you to add a little message to this podcast that was recorded by Past James last week. I just wanted you to know that I have included a record setting podcast description with

Starting point is 00:01:46 links to lots of the products we spoke about a little bit more information and on all the uh the different metrics that i included for choosing things and so you should be able to find that whatever podcast downloader that you're using you just look at the description of this podcast it is very long but you should be able to find links to lots of the things I spoke about there and a few other products which I think are good value if you are interested in getting yourself some clothing. All right, enjoy. Hello everyone, welcome to It Could Happen Here, a podcast that I'm enthusiastically introducing for the third time because I've just sounded so half-assed uh the first two times that i've made myself do it again i'm joined by my friend and your friend shireen lani yunas hi shireen

Starting point is 00:02:32 hi that was lovely to witness yeah wasn't it great that's i really put on my podcasting boots and you know went back to the podcasting face to uh do another day in the podcast minds and it's beautiful yeah beautiful thank you for having me uh happy to be here um yeah that's that's all i have to say as you can tell it's two content creators who are excited to create content i'm glad we're not on twitch we would fucking we would be uh we'd be in the poor house oh yeah it's like eight hour streams can't do it all right so we're not here to talk to talk about how uh uh how we've be in the poorhouse oh yeah it's like eight hour streams can't do it all right so we're not here to talk to talk about how uh uh how we've been in the podcast minds for too long today

Starting point is 00:03:10 we are here to talk about uh clothing in the cold why are we talking about this because right now it's it's record cold all across the us it's very very cold um because i've been spending a lot of time outside both helping drop water for migrants crossing the border, helping out in Okumba, and a lot of days just like doing my recreation stuff in the mountains that I like to do. And I think that like, I guess education, I guess a lot of people have been aggressively marketed at

Starting point is 00:03:41 about what to wear when they're outdoors, be that people who are working or people who are recreating and i think it's good to have a little bit of clarity around it especially um as we're entering like this might be the worst winter of our lives it might also be the best winter of the rest of our lives right climate change is making more and more people exposed to more and more extreme weather all over the world so i want to talk a little bit about the stuff i've learned in 30 something years of playing outside about how to stay warm in the cold and so that's what we're going to do i've got this broken down like i think the really important thing to think about when you are picking your outfit uh it's

Starting point is 00:04:20 obviously having having all your colors match. It's very important. But more than that, it's like thinking about your outfit as a system rather than as a series of individual things. And I think this is where the way outdoor companies market is really bad. They'll be like, oh, yeah, this jacket is badass, and it's warm, and it's waterproof, and it's windproof, and it's also breathable. You probably would be much better off with three cheaper jackets and one very, very expensive jacket.

Starting point is 00:04:49 Interesting. Specifically, I guess I've seen a lot of people come a cropper when their very single jacket gets wet, right? And then you either got one layer or you commit to wearing a wet jacket. So we're going to talk about the different parts of your clothing system what you should look for and uh why you should pick certain things i'll try and recommend things that are cheap as well because i know that money is hard to come by and uh the world seems to be constantly trying to extract money from us so uh this system's based on do you know who mark twight

Starting point is 00:05:23 is shireen no i don't know who Mark Twight is, Shireen? No, I don't know who Mark Twight is, but I'm looking at the same document you are, and I read his name maybe six times, and every time it was Mark Twain, and I was so confused. But it's not, it's Mark Twight. Legendary mountaineer Mark Twain, which is equally good for, you know, if you're going on a boat down the Mississippi River or climbing a mountain. Yes but no i don't know who mr twight is mr twight's a famous mountaineer he's good at climbing mountains wow that's cool that's cool to be famous for that yeah i know yeah a boy can dream like maybe maybe in another life uh i'll not have to podcast i'll just be able to raise

Starting point is 00:06:01 fluffy animals and uh and climb climbing the mountains sheep yeah that is the dream uh you know every every uh every time i don't want to sit down and write my book and think about the amount of livestock i could possibly purchase if i sell lots of uh lots of books beautiful dream yeah well one day talking to sheep actually let's talk about base layers because um one of the things they can be made out of shirin is wool from sheep nice that was good yeah i know yeah i am i am i am a professional podcast guy so your base layer is the thing you wear next to your skin right and a lot of people i think this is where like people say have you heard the phrase cotton kills no no yeah you've not heard that okay i have you heard the phrase cotton kills? No. No, yeah, you've not heard that. Okay. I have not heard that.

Starting point is 00:06:47 I mean, I'm glad you're making an episode about this because most of the things I've learned about keeping warm have just been things I've heard. You know what I mean? I've never researched what actually will help me or what will help other people because I think even when you provide, when you are going to provide or like cheaper

Starting point is 00:07:05 options that's a good thing to like donate to people too now you know what will actually help them versus like something else but yeah totally like i know like for a lot of unhoused people for instance like you'll get donated a lot of crappy cotton t-shirts but those are terrible right the little gaps in the cotton they get wet and they stay wet and it is much worse to be cold and wet than it is just to be cold right and and these the whole system of clothing designed by mark twight mark twain's brother mark twight he um the the idea is not to keep you dry the idea is to let you dry off quickly right so you can get wet you can sweat but um it's much more preferential to be able to dry off quickly and that's what cotton doesn't do

Starting point is 00:07:49 and so that's why cotton is is considered to be like your worst choice here um well so if you're base layer you want to go with there's two options i guess well it's it's uh like many things it's a continuum not a binary and so you've got wool on one end and you've got synthetic on the other end um wool is really nice because it doesn't smell right like uh if you have like athletic clothing that's synthetic it can get really stinky if you wear it for a few days it only gets stinkier wool tends to be much better for that it also uh doesn't catch fire and melt to you which if that's important in your line of work then that's useful that what are you wool is naturally fire retardant really where it's like yeah yeah yeah does everyone know this

Starting point is 00:08:35 they're clearly not shireen but sorry that was me so do sheep are sheep fireproof yeah i mean i think i i mean obviously a high enough temperature would still be fatal for them. But, like, that's Shireen's take on, yeah. Yeah, no, yeah, we don't respect the sheep enough. No, we don't. That's a very powerful ability. Yep, yeah, there's not even a sheep Pokemon that could, like, have that be. I was just thinking Pokemon as you said that. was like what a good defense well yeah yeah yeah someone send me a

Starting point is 00:09:09 picture of a sheep pokemon that you've designed and i will uh describe it on the podcast i don't know it's unfortunately not a visual medium but i'd still like to see your sheep drawings all right so wool is flame retardant it's very useful in certain lines of work it's not so important for other people but i will say say that even sitting around the campfire, it is actually really shitty if your clothes melt to you. I've had gloves melt on my hands and it was unpleasant. Wow. And that was only like a little bit.

Starting point is 00:09:36 But again, I can assure you that people sitting around campfires do have their clothing catch on fire. This is not like a thing. It's why all your tents have to be treated with a flame retardant treatment. It's that stuff that makes, when your tent, you know, if you put a tent away when it's wet and hot, you leave it in the back of your truck, it gets really sticky when you get it out.

Starting point is 00:09:58 That's a flame retardant treatment on your tent. Oh, wow. Learning a lot about fire today. So the problem with wool, though though is that you have to treat it with care like you don't want to be tumble drying wool right and it can kind of get misshapen um there are like hybrids the thing called new yarn which i like a lot um which is like a wool synthetic hybrid i have lots of class stuff made of that and then uh there are full synthetic things like um i have a little base layer here again this being mainly a podcast only shireen can see this i'm describing a piece of

Starting point is 00:10:34 clothing it looks like cloth all right we're gonna be fucked here for the next hour or so but what am i looking at it's like it looked kind of like textured or something so it's like got this um yes yes it's ribbed i'll try to leave we've just moved right past that it's uh it's ribbed it uh and that's to allow like the the little bits that touch your skin keep you warm but then the the channels allow for it to breathe right for moisture to move away and wick away from your body so and that's the that's the synthetic hybrid or this is synthetic it's spandex and polyester it's got this like it's very thin you can see through it but it's also

Starting point is 00:11:16 very warm made by a company called beyond clothing i would caution people against having too thick if you're planning on actually hiking or being active or like you know let's say you work in construction uh you work in agriculture maybe you just have a job you have to go to remote places you're a doctor who has to treat people at remote places or you win turbine engineer or you work on railway lines or something um you know if you're going to be active having too thick of a base layer can be really annoying because if it heats up that's kind of your last option and if it's really thick and you've tried to rely on that for most of your warmth then you're going to overheat and then when you overheat you're going to sweat a lot and when you sweat a lot that sweat is then going to

Starting point is 00:11:57 soak your layer right and then when it gets cold you're going to be wet and cold that is bad um so consider if your base layer like a lightweight or a mid-late thing and try and get your warmth from something else it's what i would suggest i really like the the new yarn ones like i said there's one made by black diamond called a rhythm uh t-shirt which i really like i've loaded those they're often on sale you can get them really cheap um if you're looking for something really cheap i would say to just avoid cotton so you can look for things which are polyester or nylon and those are going to be a lot better than just your cotton t-shirt they are going to smell they're going to get pretty stinky but uh you can often

Starting point is 00:12:36 find them for around the same price right um if it's very cold you may want basically as your legs as well good ones for those are hard to get cheap i like ones that zip all the way off like like like uh you know like like chippendale style yeah but you want zips all the way down the side oh zippers so they're not pull on no yeah because then you have to take your boots off right so if you're oh wow good thinking of everything drop your trousers put those on because taking your boots off in the snow and then hopping around no i mean it sounds very uh impractical so that's cool they thought of that that's very yeah smart yeah yeah it's a nice uh it's a nice

Starting point is 00:13:17 yes technology has given us many things uh there's a company called kuyu uh who's chiefly a hunting company but they make a really nice like side zip leg base layer um which i think i would recommend for a lot of people if it's really cold where you are with i guess trousers generally it's they're a lot less complicated than upper layers but um the the things you want in the cold really are again something that's not going to like cause you to sweat a lot lot so i wouldn't suggest everyone like going around in waterproof trousers i really like ones that um have vents like mechanical vents so you can open up so you can cool off these guys right like they they're the

Starting point is 00:13:58 pockets are mesh so if you open the pocket not only can you get your accessories out, but you can also vent off the heat that way. And so that way you don't soak them out with sweat, right? There's a company called Beyond who makes every possible weight and size of trouser. I really like their stuff. I use their stuff a lot. You can get knee pad pockets as well, which are super useful. Not only if you're like, you see them in military gear a lot but if you're working say in construction or carpentry or something like that you have to kneel

Starting point is 00:14:31 a lot it's really nice table on the pad um so those get a recommendation for that the for a cheap one the prada make a pant called the stretch zion which i think is really nice climbing them all the time they can often be found really cheap your next thing is your active insulation so that's you need to warm yourself when you're active right so there's two types of insulation the system is active and static and one is for when you're moving and the other is for where you're stationary and your active insulation is people used to call this a mid-layer but that was back when people wore like wool jumpers and you kind of had to keep it covered from the world or it would get wet and stretched out and very very heavy but sometimes this will actually be

Starting point is 00:15:14 the outer layer so i don't think mid-layer is a great term that's what they used to call it people used to use fleeces a lot fleeces are fine but again they can get very very heavy if they get wet some of them don't breathe very well and they can sort of very quickly become too hot if you're exercising and they're not very windproof they don't block the wind at all so a much better choice is something called a grid fleece so like the base layer i was talking to you about it has like a little grid pattern that allows for moisture and air to move away from your body so like you're less likely to overheat there's a really cool fabric called polartec alpha which you should look for rather than like looking for a specific item if you look for polartec alpha or polartec alpha direct then you can scout around for stuff that's on sale and find something that's that's really nice um it kind of looks a bit fleecy but but it's also a grid pattern it's

Starting point is 00:16:09 really warm and it's very small i have a few things that are like made of that i have one from a moot called alpha 60 so there are different weights right 60 90 120 60 is the least i think 90 it's grams per square meter but 90 grams per square meter is pretty much a good mid zone for almost everyone so that's what to look for in those if you're looking for a cheap mid-layer so a cheap way to stay warm while you're moving around the u.s military has this thing called a waffle top because inside of it looks like a waffle right um i guess grid was no they like to give things baby names in in the u.s army oh look shireen's got one yeah like that yeah i love a waffle top i'm always cold all the time so

Starting point is 00:16:51 i'm also a cold person but yeah yeah i do love a waffle top yeah but yeah those waffle tops you can get them super cheap everywhere online uh i would caution people against getting it can be easy to find like a thing which has got like a waffle backer and a soft shell front and it's like your wind shell your rain shell but those are really warm and they're really big and bulky and it's quite hard to wear them if you're actually moving with any sort of intention so that's where you want to keep your things separate so you can choose um choose can choose exactly how warm you are rather than being forced to be a certain level of warm.

Starting point is 00:17:30 Talking of forcing people to do things, Shireen, it's time for us to force them to listen to some adverts. Let's do it. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech

Starting point is 00:18:01 from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better.

Starting point is 00:18:32 Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now, and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world

Starting point is 00:18:59 as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show. I live with my boyfriend

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Starting point is 00:20:30 Blacklit is here to amplify the voices of Black writers and to bring their words to life. Listen to Blacklit on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We're back uh so shereen's voice and we are talking now about the other part of keeping yourself warm which is static insulation this is the like big warm jacket everyone likes uh your happy jacket the one that like makes the cold go away. Right. The deal here is that like a big puffy jacket is pretty crappy to wear. Again, if you're moving with any intention, right?

Starting point is 00:21:13 Like unless it's seriously like Arctic cold, then it's hard to hike or climb. In a big puffy jacket. So what this guy is for is for when you stop moving so if you're hiking that would mean when you stop to regroup or you stop to have a snack or um to put your camp together or whatever it's good to have like a really big jacket that is warm that you can toss on immediately um putting clothes on once you are cold is is generally not the deal uh the deal is putting them on so you don't get cold because all you're doing with all these layers right is trapping air against your body that is warm that's what the little little the grid parts

Starting point is 00:21:59 in the grid fleece do and that's what all the little feathers in the down jacket do right they're just trapping pockets of air that you heat up so if you wait till you're really cold it's going to take you a lot longer to get to get warm the thing to do is once once when you're moving you're nice and warm you stop you're going to get cold so if you toss on that jacket then and then you can stay cold i'd say warm down jackets are really complicated if there are a couple of issues with like cheap down jackets that make them probably best avoided one is that if you're not using ethically sourced down that the uh the industry can be pretty abusive right that down is comprised of feathers that come from ducks and geese it's not very nice to ducks and geese uh to kill them and steal their feathers and and um if you're

Starting point is 00:22:46 going to do it at all if that's something that you choose to do you should at least try and find ethically sourced down in my opinion the other thing is that down natural down when it gets wet it clumps up and it doesn't work anymore it uh it doesn't insulate you right no like nicer downs modern more like modern downs are treated with uh water repellent coating so they don't tend to do that as much but the other thing with down is like you like a lot of numbers get thrown at you when you're looking at a down jacket like if you if you look at them on the internet it's all kinds of information some of that stuff is bullshit the things that are important are the fill power and the fill weight the fill power is it tells you how many cubic inches of loft one ounce of that down will fill so a higher number is better right a higher number is more puffy and

Starting point is 00:23:42 then your fill weight tells you how much of that down is used in a jacket so a higher fill power jacket with a lower let's say a 400 full power jacket with 60 grams of fill weight would be as warm as 800 full power jacket with 30 grams of fill weight so once you get your fill power and your fill weight then you get a pretty good idea of how warm a jacket is going to be um so the other alternative to natural down is synthetic down right where that stands out is like it can get wet and you can generally like baby it a bit less but it doesn't pack down as well and it is tends to be heavier and you don't get full power but you do get full weight so if you're the jacket i use is synthetic because like i like to shovel in my bag and sometimes it's wet or like sometimes it gets a bit wet right i just i don't like to have

Starting point is 00:24:39 to like try and baby it so much i also for ethical reasons prefer that there's a company called primaloft uh p-r-i-m-a they make synthetic insulation sort of very good and they make some from post-consumer recycled plastics uh and uh they have some that are biodegradable as well so i really like cool yeah it's cool right like like i saw something a while ago on how ducks and geese are treated for like down and it may be very sad like i didn't really want to ask because i don't really need to know more to that i already do because i don't buy that stuff anyway but do they are are there birds that die exclusively for their feathers or at least do they die for meat and their feathers i think they die exclusively

Starting point is 00:25:25 i'm sure they are eaten but they are raised like the commercial product is their feathers basically because they kill them much younger yeah it's shitty there are like ethically sourced downs which i think if you know if if you're a consumer of animal products for the most part i avoid them most of my wool stuff i got uh before i was vegan but i think if you're picking between wool and down i think the down industry is it's hard to be mean to sheep in a way that people are mean to poultry uh because sheep just aren't having it they'll die uh also you're not like shearing wool is different than plucking feathers yeah yeah well yeah then killing an animal to to yeah there's a distinct thing going on there so yeah i prefer not to have

Starting point is 00:26:13 i have a few down jackets um that you know but i keep them baby and look after but um for the most part i use the generally these are called belay parkers they're the sort of static insulation layer because when you're belaying, when you're climbing, right, you don't put them on for climbing, but then when you're on belay, you're stationary. So you put them on and it's nice to have a hood on these two, right? Because you don't want to be like, oh, I've got to get my beanie out, got my jacket on, you want to just be able to put your one big warm jacket on and then you're warm.

Starting point is 00:26:43 Um, so. Is it true that you can lose like heat from your head and you're or like i've always heard that like if you wear a beanie you can stay warm better is that not true yeah i mean you can lose heat from your head and so it's a part of your body i mean okay i i know technically that makes sense yeah but yeah it's like maybe it's like a mom thing to say to their kids where it's just like cover your head don't go out when your hair is wet yeah you you can lose heat from any sort of exposed surface area right uninsulated part of your body um i think sometimes people overestimate the role played by your head like you know people say you lose 90% of your heat from your head this isn't true right like okay this is why we don't climb mountains in like fur hats and speedos like um you you do want to cover your head when

Starting point is 00:27:30 it's cold and it can make a big difference especially like your ears you know where the circulation is close to the skin they can get cold your nose right you can get frost nip your nose and your ears um so like you do want to cover those things having a like a keffiyeh or a uh is it a snood is that what it's called i don't know okay but that's enough yeah okay a buff is a trade name a buff under a buff like a buff under yeah oh no coffee is a great suggestion good job yeah yeah i have a keffiyeh that i've worn up and down many mountains it's really nice because if you tuck it into the neck of your jacket it kind of blocks all the wind gaps and then it's already warm because it's been inside there so when you go from jacket to sleeping bag you just wrap that guy around your

Starting point is 00:28:25 shoulders and then it's you're warm um multi-purpose you know i love and also if you have a keffiyeh you can use it to pre-filter water right because you want to get rid of the turbidity so like if you're filtering from muddy water you can put your keffiyeh over the lid of your bottle and then rubber band it down scoop yeah yeah many used to make a sling out of it um i once used it to uh to hold gauze on a leg wound that i had wow you've lived a life yeah many of my fears lived a life i'm just i'm just here for the ride so yeah that's your uh your down jacket if you do want like a down animal down duck down jacket uh the decathlon ones are really good for the money decathlon is a french sport it's like french rei or european rei it's huge in europe not so big in america but that stuff's excellent value

Starting point is 00:29:16 also if you want to get really dorky about down jackets and warm jackets the ultralight subreddit a place where i definitely go sometimes uh more times than i should uh is you can find like someone has made a spreadsheet uh ranking like the fill power fill weight and price of different down jackets so if you want to get into it you can get really into it there you can spend a lot of your life uh on that subreddit if you want to so the next layer and it kind of plays into the the the two insulation things it's it's your wind layer so a lot of the way we experience cold as humans is through wind right because of the uh the way we that's why we have the concept of wind chill right the air rushing past you cools you a lot more than that same temperature without the air rushing past you and this is often how we experience

Starting point is 00:30:10 cold in the outdoors especially right so having something like active insulation is great but often like that alpha fabric for instance it's you can see through it it can be very warm but it doesn't do anything to block the wind and that's sort of by design right because it's allowing vapor to move out which is what you want but you do sometimes especially in windy conditions need a layer to block the wind that's your wind layer it also helps a lot in not trashing your expensive insulation layers like a very nice down jacket uh will sometimes have a very low the denny account is like the thickness of the fabric so a nice down jacket will still have a can often have a low denny account it's not really designed

Starting point is 00:30:50 to be like it's not like recently i've been out in hakumba building shelters for people right so i'm constantly carrying lumber and uh you know using tools and cutting stuff and and if you wear your fancy expensive super light down jacket you're going to shred it and then you're going to end up with little patches of duct tape all over it and now your expensive down jacket's not as warm as it used to be well yeah sad time for you so you can avoid this by either just not wearing it for that or uh covering it with with a layer, which also helps because even those down jackets, often the wind can get right through them. So a wind layer is a really nice option for a number of those reasons.

Starting point is 00:31:34 Also, you can often just wear it above your base layer and even down to pretty cold when you're moving, trail running, like people trail run. I'm sure they'll have already know this, but if you're hiking, you're trail running, if you're climbing, a wind layer can really increase the range of temperatures which you can

Starting point is 00:31:51 work in without getting too cold. A very small mine is the size of maybe a tennis ball when I pack it down, but it makes you a lot warmer. You don't want one that blocks all of the wind because then you

Starting point is 00:32:06 won't be able to it won't be breathable right oh you want something that's a little bit breathable the one i have i looked up the one i like it's called a mountain hardware core air shell but core is spelt with a k that's how you know it's cool of course it is yeah you gotta you gotta get in it got it get it in there somewhere uh and then where is spelt like uh you know like like wearing clothes and so double puns on their spellings it's made of a stuff called pertex quantum air which is really cool it feels like silky um but it's a synthetic fabric and it's really nice and it's very small and it's very light and you could put it in and you had like uh if you're wearing like cargo trousers you know uh you could put it in the side pocket or cargo shorts if you're that kind of person so those if you're looking for a cheaper thing

Starting point is 00:32:56 to block the wind like you can find pretty cheap wind cheaters right out there you don't want something that's very plasticky and then kind of clammy you're going to sweat up in uh you can get surplus british windproof smocks that are really nice i use those all the time when i'm working outside because i have loads of pockets they're a nylon cotton blend so they're not all cotton and they uh they're very like robust you know they're not going to wear wear down or like get destroyed if you're carrying lumber or you know they're not going to wear wear down or like get destroyed if you're carrying lumber or you know rock climbing right if you're into climbing like a lot of this stuff will you need something with a thicker face fabric otherwise you're going to destroy it when you're climbing especially if you're climbing somewhere like joshua tree where

Starting point is 00:33:38 like the rock is like sandpaper and it eats your clothing the final layer is your waterproof right you it's a final one because like you want to avoid wearing your waterproof really like i think far too many people where like they rely on waterproof coats when it's not raining enough to need one uh the problem with waterproofs if rain can't come in moisture can't really come out even fabrics like gore-tex pertex and they say that they're breathable but i think anybody who's tried to exercise hard in a gore-tex jacket will tell you that they're not like um like if you're hiking with a group and you all put on your gore-tex then you need to move slower because you're going to overheat and then you're

Starting point is 00:34:25 going to get wet from the inside because you're sweating I mean that's not what you want and so waterproof is important because when it's really wet and you're outside you don't want to get soaked right but it's also not something you should be wearing most of the time what you want to look for in a waterproof again there are like statistics numbers um one of them is the it's it's the pressure resistance of the fabric like it's expressed in the it's the height of a water column in millimeters until it can like push through the water resistance of the fabric does that make sense no not at all okay thank you for your honesty that's good um it's if you imagine like that like i have a a tube right it's a linear tube like a cylinder and then i put it on my waterproof fabric right put my waterproof fabric at the bottom of the tube and then i put one millimeter of water it doesn't do anything two mils three mils four

Starting point is 00:35:24 mils i keep adding until until it pushes through the fabric so that's that's called like a pressure what do you call it yeah that's a pressure it's sometimes expressed in pounds per square inch as well okay cool it's useful if you're like skiing or snowboarding and like it's safety if you're skiing or snowboarding badly and you're going to spend a lot of time like sat on your ass um then uh or you know otherwise working in snow like kneeling in snow that's very handy there's also a statistic which is probably more useful it's the millimeters of rain in 24 hours before it like wets out and becomes permeable so if you live somewhere really wet like belgium or the uk belgium just sticks out in my head as a place where it rained all the

Starting point is 00:36:03 time but maybe that's just my bitterness. You're looking for like something in the 20,000 range. That's a jacket that you can pretty much wear all day in the wet and be fine. A Gore-Tex pro fabric I know is 28,000. So I think that's kind of your gold standard. But anything over 20,000 is fine. And then breathability is the last one. Moisture vapor transfer rate. And again, anything over 20,000 is fine and then breathability is the last one uh moisture vapor transfer rate

Starting point is 00:36:25 and again anything over 20,000 is good um the other thing to look for in a waterproof is taped seams and like you know the bits where it's stitched together if there isn't tape behind those seams then water can get in through that stitching um and like i've seen people get very expensive jackets which inexplicably don't have tape seams and i think it's like maybe a a fashion jacket or something but i have like wet like down every seam like they take off their jacket i would love to see you with a group of like people just that are wearing these kinds of clothing and just like you judging them quietly that's me every day serene every day whenene every day

Starting point is 00:37:05 when you see me i'm judging people for their outdoor clothing it just it just happens inside my head it's my inside voice i'm happy that people are outside and i just want them to have a comfortable enjoyable experience that's a good like um thing to focus on if you want to like make sure it's like not a fashion jacket versus like utilitarian whatever you know like is it gonna actually be helpful or are you just gonna look cool or is it gonna do both yeah you can do both uh like i like you should feel good in what you're wearing and wear things that make you feel happy about yourself and your body and and however you want to appear is fine like i don't give a fuck just want you to be comfortable and safe. But he will judge you. I won't judge you.

Starting point is 00:37:49 I will judge you if you're doing something that might put you in danger or someone more equally. Like you can put yourself in danger again. I don't care. Like if you want a free solo, fucking have it. But don't put other people in danger without their consent, I guess. Which you're doing if you go outside because someone has to come get you

Starting point is 00:38:03 if you get in trouble out there and that's not not a risk-free endeavor all right returning from my judgmental character to waterproof jackets it's a you know shereen you know what else i am judging how my voice sounds no i'm i'm remaining aloof from judgment. I would never. But I am judging the products and services that support this show. And I'm judging them poorly because gold is not a good way to spend your money. But we still love our jobs. We do love our jobs.

Starting point is 00:38:38 Yeah, we do. I do enjoy my job. I like my job. I want you to have nice jackets and not Ronald Reagan commemorative coins. So here's some adverts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, better offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech

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Starting point is 00:39:43 the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. I found out I was related to the guy that I was dating. I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not. Those were some callers from my call-in podcast, Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show.

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Starting point is 00:41:57 We're back. And yeah, we're going to talk a little bit more about waterproof jackets. I think it's important. The other thing you want to look for, right uh so your um your tape seams are good uh and then i like to have mechanical venting which is yeah you mentioned that earlier what does that mean so that this is these are vents that i can open where as opposed to venting through the fabric i want to vent through a zip that i can open up right so like i'm wearing a puffy jacket right now that's a mechanical vent right if i why am i saying that wait unzipping your jacket is mechanical venting shireen can see me no one else can

Starting point is 00:42:36 it's like the sixth sense uh i'm a dead person and shireen is the only person who can see me that is wait can i just get that straight so just unzipping your jacket counts as mechanical venting yeah so like if you have a nice waterproof jacket it will have pit zips okay got it just want to what a fancy way just to say unzipping something well yeah yeah okay well because you but you want like this this is not right if i unzip and it's a pocket inside that's not mechanical venting because james just unzipped a chest pocket for those listening everyone yeah welcome to the podcast where i do stuff and shireen tells you what i do um yes if pockets are not mechanical vents right but you went away so you you've got pit zips some of them will have chest zips oh okay ways to force

Starting point is 00:43:22 that hot air out and allow breathability to happen right so i like that in in rain jackets uh and then i also like a hood right because having a wet head isn't fun and so this this one i like to have a hood and the belay park i like to have a hood um sometimes a wind jacket i like to have a hood if you're doing climbing and you're doing uh i never really wear a hood when i'm cycling but uh other helmet actually if you're caving or canyoneering might be a good idea to check the hood situation with the helmet that you wear for that activity so like for climbing you know you lots of people will say they have a helmet compatible hood but i don't know what helmet those people are wearing uh because they don't fit over like even

Starting point is 00:44:05 a pretty low profile climbing helmet so if you know if you can go to your local outdoor shop take take your helmet uh you know don't don't be afraid of trying it on with the helmet on and you want these all really to be cut to allow you to move right like a lot of modern outdoor gear it looks really nice like when you're going about town but it's cut kind of too tight in that while it looks very trendy it can inhibit your movement right and and so you want to be aware of that you may have to size up and it's not because you've got bigger it's because clothes have got smaller also if you're layering that would make sense anyway right yeah definitely and you want to have your waterproof cut so it can go

Starting point is 00:44:46 over your stuff right because if it rains you just want to chuck that thing on uh and likewise you want to have that big belay parker cut so that it can fit over your other layers right because again you want to be able to chuck that on as soon as you stop and your windproof jacket too so you can use it to protect your more expensive um you can even i know people who do the windproof jacket too, so you can use it to protect your more expensive. You can even, I know people who do the windproof jacket over the Gore-Tex just to protect it, right? I have two Gore-Texes. I have one that's very small and very thin and that I keep as an emergency if I don't expect it to rain or expect for it but i'm going on a week-long trip i'm not gonna you know want to be completely fucked if it rains so i bring a little one it's

Starting point is 00:45:29 called the mountain hardware minimizer and kind of the name gives away this is very small it's made of gore-tex pack light which is like the the lower tier of acceptable gore-tex but it's fine you know like i go outside a lot and i use it and it's fine. It doesn't breathe quite as well, but, um, you can, uh, again, overcome that right with some, with some zips that unzip. And then if it's going to be right all day, I have a jacket that's a bit heavier, thicker packs, bigger, but, um, the one I have is from a hunting company called follow F R L O H. It's's really nice often for some reason hunting stuff in recent years has got a lot better and outdoor stuff kind of has it used to hunting stuff used to be shitty uh but it's it's kind of overtaken it for some reason and sometimes it's also nice

Starting point is 00:46:16 to have stuff that isn't bright orange and isn't like you have a theory of why that is because people have a metric shit ton of money and uh wealthy people have got into backcountry hunting because they want to have a big dead thing uh but these are not people who maybe some people some people are sending it really fucking hard doing hunting doing like 10 12 day hunts uh and they're hardcore outdoors people as well and they're very wealthy people they like to be uncomfortable and they will spend a lot of money on expensive jackets that's my theory yeah thanks for coming to my ted talk those are the two things that you really want with any waterproof you do need to take care of them a thing with gore-tex everyone should be aware of has what are called forever plastics in it

Starting point is 00:47:00 and they are really not good for the environment um and not only are they not good for the environment when it's made and this isn't just gore-tex right i'm not gore-tex is a brand they make fabrics and i'm not just it it's it's with all those like uh those those kinds of multi-layer laminate waterproofs and the it's not just when they're made it's also when water sloughs off them right like so when it rains on you and then that that the rain you know the raindrop goes into the stream the stream goes into the river and the river goes into the ocean um the little forever plastics are still there and that's not good um it i would imagine as with many things it it's more not good than we know right now um so some brands like uh fjallraven won't use gore-tex in their stuff for that reason

Starting point is 00:47:43 they don't have any forever plastics instead they use waxes i think people are kind of maybe have forgotten or like you don't see as much of it as you as you used to but uh wax jackets are really good if it's going to rain all day if you're not so concerned about weight you can get like a waxed cotton jacket or wax canvas jacket um like carhartt makes some right or filson i have a nice filson jacket that i wear a lot and it's way less fragile but it is much heavier but it's also better for the planet um so that's something to consider if you do have a gore-tex jacket like it's not something that i feel good like having five gore-tex jackets you know and like buying new ones every year like you should try and take care of them and uh there's a product called nick wax which is really good you should use nick wax

Starting point is 00:48:28 stuff when you're washing any of your outdoor but if you're washing down you should use nick wax down wash or you'll really fuck up your expensive damn jacket um so i think that's a good thing and then yeah wax like consider how often you're really out in an absolute downpour and if that's not very often like maybe you're okay with a wind layer or like just waxing the shoulders of your like i have a cotton jacket behind me that i just wax the shoulders off um but like it's like a smock with lots of pockets and i just put wax i bought some greenland wax which is a which is a fjallraven thing and wax the shoulders so the shoulders are impermeable to water. Does it look different?

Starting point is 00:49:09 Does it look shiny? Yeah, it looks a little bit shiny, but it's not bad. And if you do it better than me, then it won't look as shiny. Yeah, I can see that. Not that bad. No, it's not that bad. It's kind of fun. Maybe other people do other things for fun not it's kind of fun i don't know maybe other people do

Starting point is 00:49:25 other things for fun but uh i kind of like it you get a hair dryer and you put grab the wax on and then you melt it in with a hair dryer that's what i do on saturday nights um insight into my life uh so the last thing that i wanted to talk about was extremities right um i have rainos where like oh i do too. Oh, really? Yeah. Wait, really? Raynaud's gang, yeah. Look at my hands.

Starting point is 00:49:47 I've never met someone else that has it. No, my feet are like yellow right now. I mean, not yellow. If I press them, they get yellow. But like, my feet and hands are always cold all the time. Yeah, yeah, same. And it's miserable. I hate having cold hands.

Starting point is 00:50:02 Literally, look at this. Wait, I just bought these recently. These are electric hand warmers. Oh and i keep them now i just walk around with these all the time that's that's great yeah it's nice to have warm hands and if you too if you're a fellow hands caller there are some things you can do uh i think sometimes people wear really thick gloves that that stop the hands moving and that doesn't really increase circulation or they'll have cold wrists and then it's kind of there's like a temperature you know that blood's getting cold right it's hitting your hands um so i found like having a base layer or a mid a uh active

Starting point is 00:50:43 insulation layer with thumb loops really helps because in thumb loops make sure that the sleeve goes all the way into the glove um and i would encourage you rather than wearing one big ass pair of gloves to have like a glove i know this sounds really dorky but like a glove system so like a thin fleecy glove and then a shell glove which is either waterproof or windproof um and then if you want to you can then stack that with a mitten on top of that right yeah i love them mittens are so cute yeah get your uh person who sews in your life to sew your pair of mittens have them join with a little string so you can run that through the sleeves of your jacket so you don't lose them

Starting point is 00:51:22 i used to have those yeah me too i feel like or maybe i just imagined having one i can't i can't figure out what are memories and what are not memories anymore but i love those kinds of mittens yeah maybe i'll make i'll knit you some shireen james yeah wouldn't yeah i can't believe you have wait how did you say it in british voice mittens no no no right now it's right rainers rainers is that how you say it yeah i think so like reno they're french yeah that's what i'm guessing yeah uh yeah i think mine maybe i don't know maybe it's just from being naturally cold but uh holding on to the handlebars of a bicycle racing over cobbles for years and years and years has really fucked the circulation and sensation in my hands

Starting point is 00:52:08 yeah same thing that happens if you work a um jackhammer wow my hands get cold yeah it's good not good not good for the human body to do anything that much outdoor research make a good glove system but they only make it for the military and they won't sell it to you which is lame yeah there's a lot of like so one of the reasons that uh some of this surplus clothing comes up is because it's designed as a system which is good right it's one piece designed to work with another piece uh and like for instance patagonia makes a uh protective combat uniform for the army as much as they would like to not talk about it it's still true and uh i've written about it before but they um they make a really good system and it's great and it's just got like they actually have like this little

Starting point is 00:52:57 graphic that's like if it's this cold wear this if it's this cold and wet wear this if it's this cold and windy wear this and it's very handy for people especially people who may not have grown up or had that kind of experience or just had the chance to try different products because they're very expensive right it's very handy to be like okay this isn't this and you only need these five or six pieces that way as opposed to having dozens of jackets and dozens of different things for different weathers so like it it works very well and it frustrates me that they don't do the same thing when selling to people who are not in the military um yeah so the other things i wanted to do with extremities real quick uh socks socks it goes the same way as gloves like you don't want

Starting point is 00:53:38 a sock system yeah i'm glad that you're picking up what i'm putting down shireen i have a sock system but it's not your it's not anything about this tell me about your yeah well my my feet are always cold this is not a sock but i do wear this in my house oh wow shireen is showing me uh it looks like uh it's kind of a moon boot, but made of fluff. It looks like a Yeti's foot. It's very warm. I don't wear shoes in my house, so I either always have those slippers on or socks. But my sock system is, these socks can never mingle.

Starting point is 00:54:20 I have outside socks, I have house socks, and I have bed socks. And those socks remain in their sections. An outdoor sock cannot come in my bed. Does that make sense? It does, and I'm fascinated to learn more about this. When we start recording, I'm going to inquire more about Shireen's sock collection. Yeah, very interesting to me. Anyway, yeah, that's my neuroticism.

Starting point is 00:54:43 But I think, so same thing with gloves you're saying like they should be layered yeah i mean i wear socks i think the big thing is to uh like not always be trying to i think people want to wear like a big thick wool sock because it's cold and then if you're going to cram that into your same boot you're going to restrict circulation you're not going to be able to move your feet right and so what i would do instead is either have a couple of pairs of thin socks or use a warmer fabric so like alpaca wool is very warm for its weight the other nice thing about wool socks is again they insulate when they're wet right so um your feet are going to sweat you're moving and uh and so you want something that's not going to get your feet are going to sweat when you're moving and and so you want something that's not going to

Starting point is 00:55:27 get your feet cold right especially if you're a person who already gets cold feet so um merino wool is good alpaca wool is very good but yeah you don't want to restrict with like one big fluffy sock um you can get insulated boots if it's really cold i right down until below freezing i don't like insulated boots because again i don't like my feet to get sweaty and uh well you wear your feet for that kind of weather they get really cold just gore-tex boots um i wear the same boots for almost everything unless it's like jungly if you're going to get wet like gore-tex boots suck right because they take forever to dry so like if you're in the jungle and the water's going to come over your boots then you shouldn't wear gore-tex boots if you're not i have some do you like to know exactly what boots i have

Starting point is 00:56:14 sure i mean we're not sponsored though maybe no yeah yeah yeah i did get some of this shit for free when i was working in the outdoor industry but no one's paying us to say this uh i have solomon quest 4d oh yeah i think i have those wait i have those wait no which ones do i have i did like a bunch of research a couple years ago when i got my new hiking boots and i feel like i have the solomons or those were the ones i no no i do have the solomons because i returned the other one that everyone likes the which is, what's it called? The Hocus. The Hocus? Oh, yeah, no.

Starting point is 00:56:48 Yeah. Hocus make lovely running shoes. I don't have a preference for that. I mean, I just didn't understand the hype, so I remember switching over to, or returning those and getting the Solomons. Wow, look at us. Yeah, yeah, Team Solomon over here.

Starting point is 00:57:00 They're vegan too. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah. That's fun. If you have leather boots, you can snow seal them around this time of year and then there'll be a bit less breathable but a bit more waterproof but um yeah consider not over cramming like thick socks into boots of the same size if you if you're going to get a specific pair of winter boots get them a size bigger and then you could wear a thicker sock i would probably do that before i went to an

Starting point is 00:57:24 insulated boot until it was really cold like arctic stuff you don't need an insulated boot um vasque makes some nice insulated boots that i've used and then hats is the last one hats again like uh it depends a little bit on the temperature but i have a couple of wool beanies that i got years and years and years ago and they're very good and they're very warm um the only thing is when they get wet they kind of stretch out a bit so they uh they don't love getting wet you might want to put a uh put a hood over yourself otherwise a fleece beanie is really good people are sleeping on the fleece beanie but like a micro fleece stretchy beanie it's very nice um i tend to take them when i travel because i'm a cold person and

Starting point is 00:58:05 planes are cold and so if i have that and my little keffiyeh in my bag then i can kind of wrap myself up uh on the plane and i probably look a bit weird to everyone else but i don't care because i am warm and planes are cold i think that it's the end of my ted talk on well warm warm clothing yeah we talk for an hour about cold shire. I didn't think we would talk for an hour about cold stuff. Shireen, I didn't think we'd keep it under an hour. Wait, really? Yeah, no. I've been training my whole life for this shit.

Starting point is 00:58:35 Like, I love, I used to, like, my whole job used to be to tell people what to wear and take with them when they go outside. Wait, really? Yeah, outdoor industry journalists for years and years and that was how i started my little when i was a little baby journalist you're the expert here a little baby journalist i wrote i don't think i'm an expert but uh i will say well i tell you what there's my other little soapbox you will read a lot of reviews and sometimes like like the reviews for boots did they stitch harine in a good direction not everyone who's writing those reviews

Starting point is 00:59:06 is going outside very much, is what I will say, or sending it very hard. Some of them undoubtedly are, but a lot of them are trying to get you to click a link which will return a certain percentage to the website that you're clicking the link from. So 4% or 5% back, right? And you may, for instance,

Starting point is 00:59:26 some of the brands I've mentioned here don't have that it's called affiliate marketing and if brands don't have affiliate marketing you generally can't put it in articles for lots of magazines uh about the outdoors this is uh something that i fucking loathe uh and and you uh you can't be honest and say this is my favorite thing uh everything's designed to be se SEO'd and to get you to click something and to return some affiliate revenue to the website. So it would take a lot of those reviews with a pinch of salt. Also, just small brands struggle to get into a lot of magazines because they don't have the marketing money to send piles and piles of free stuff.

Starting point is 01:00:03 So yeah, be cautious about what you read and if you look around you know if you're looking at this shit like like i absolutely have jackets that cost several hundred dollars that i got for free or i made some employer pay for because i was going somewhere horrifically inhospitable to human life like alaska or alaska is actually lovely i'd like to live there that's the dream right one day i'll podcast my way to a million dollars and raise sheep in alaska i was looking for tickets to alaska yesterday actually oh hell yeah i want to see after the show we're talking about alaska yeah yeah i need to see those lights yep yeah yeah yeah go get after it uh but i

Starting point is 01:00:43 don't really support moving to Alaska and colonizing people's land because you shouldn't do that. Fair, fair. Don't do extra colonizing. I'm already doing enough. I feel bad about it. So, yeah, I would suggest people

Starting point is 01:00:56 take those reviews with a pinch of salt. There are websites like Gear Trade where you can find used stuff. eBay, OfferUp. A lot of people buy outdoor stuff, go camping once, cold get wet get sad slap it on the internet and sell it for pennies versus what it's worth so uh you don't have to buy any of this stuff new most of these companies also have bomber warranties uh and i'm

Starting point is 01:01:19 just going to leave that there as to the combination of secondhand purchasing or warranties but you can probably join the dots wow yeah thanks for having me for this i learned a lot thanks for joining me shereen and sharing with me your sock system i mean yeah that was really intimate no i think this stuff is like underrated how important it is i feel like i mean like unless you're always outdoors and you're like you're an outdoorsy person i think you wouldn't know exactly the best way to keep warm and it's good to know like what will actually help someone if you want to I don't know donate stuff to them so yeah we have been plagued with donations of really shitty blankets for instance it's no one's fault I genuinely understand that people care and like it I'm so proud that people want to help and it makes me so happy to

Starting point is 01:02:05 see people taking the money that i know none of us have enough of and and buying stuff but like for instance a thick wool blanket is going to do so much more than two or three very thin micro fleece blankets you know if you're looking towards your local unhoused community right again like think about things that are durable and that will still insulate when they're wet and wool if you if you do wool then then that's a great choice for a lot of those things um and uh but perhaps we can have one of my unhoused friends on to talk about like effective donations the best way to help people who are unhoused is to give them money and they can buy the things that they need because they know about the things that they need. That is good. That is a good point.

Starting point is 01:02:45 And so, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's my last thing for today. Give people who need things money so they can buy them. All right. Bye, everyone. Bye.

Starting point is 01:02:54 Bye. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, coolzonemedia.com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources.

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Starting point is 01:04:06 Hey, you've been doing all that talking. It's time to get rewarded for it. Submit your podcast today at iHeart.com slash podcast awards. That's iHeart.com slash podcast awards. Welcome to Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German, where we get real and dive straight into todo lo actual y viral. We're talking música, los premios, el chisme, and all things trending in my cultura. I'm bringing you all the latest happening in our entertainment world and some fun and impactful interviews with your favorite Latin artists, comedians, actors, and influencers.

Starting point is 01:04:40 Each week, we get deep and raw life stories, combos on the issues that matter to us, and it's all packed with gems, fun, straight-up comedia, and that's a song that only Nuestra Gente can sprinkle. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It Could Happen Here - What (not) to Wear in the Cold

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