It Could Happen Here - What’s Happening to the Rohingya in Myanmar’s Civil War?

Episode Date: March 26, 2024

James talks to Aung Kyaw Moe about the recent fighting in Rakhine state, the Junta forcibly conscripting Rohingya people, and how to build a democratic Myanmar that’s inclusive for all faiths and ethnicities.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline Podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into Tech's elite and how they've turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami.

Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello everyone, welcome to the podcast. Today we have a very interesting interview. We're very lucky to be joined by Ong Kyomo, who we've heard from before, who is a minister who is Rohingya in the National Unity Government of Burma or Myanmar. Both of those words are okay. And we're talking about the

situation of Rohingya people and the developments that have happened in Rakhine state since, I guess, since the beginning of Operation 1027. So welcome to the show. Thank you so much, James. Thanks for having me. And it's good to be back with you to this show. Thank you. Yeah, no, it's wonderful to have you back and we're very fortunate. So I wonder if we could start by summarizing for listeners, the things that have happened in the last few months, uh, in Rakhine state, because there've been some massive changes, uh, since maybe listeners were last aware of what was happening there.

Yeah, sure. Thank you. Uh, the, since the coup, the coup, there were on and off fights between the Arkan army and the Malachi Hunters forces in Rakhine State. However, in the interest of the humanitarian need, both parties came to ceasefire in between. However, the fight against the Malay Sihunta in Myanmar started in different part of Myanmar,

continues to be accelerating. And most recently, the 1027, and followed by others operations in Crimea state has been quite rapidly spreading across the country and that's definitely one through a kind of state where our can resume to target the junta in its political objective to be reaching that's the situations we are today that the Arkan army has been in very good positions to be dismantling the hunters forces in Rakhine state and so far since operation 1027 started more than half of the township districts in Rakhine state has been seized by the Arkhan army, including some of those

where a majority of Rohingya lives. And it's continued to be under in a very deteriorating situation. Yeah, and they've even sunk hunter ships or captured them in some cases, I think. It's been a bit of a, there was a video that was quite, I guess, maybe not viral is the wrong word. It's certainly, I saw a lot, but of border guard forces, right. Which are like militias allied to the hunter, like fleeing into Bangladesh. This, this, the border guard forces are from mostly from

militaries, they are trained militaries. Their uniforms are changed into border guard force due to different agreements that exist between two states in allocating its troops along the border side. And the border guard forces are one of the most primary forces that's deported Rohingya and burned the Rohingya's horses in 2027 and make them flee. So six years later, the same BGPs who committed the crimes against the Rohingya atrocities that include crimes against humanity and war crimes, had to flee to Bangladesh in a quite similar way to refuge. And so it's sort of karma or whatever you put it in a way. And the perceptions and reality, of course, when it's kind of confrontations between the two groups, ARKAN ARMY and the the military combat forces. The reality that has

been defined by most of us in Myanmar and across, that we used to believe that the Burmese military is a strong, both by human resource and equipment, and in reality they are very weak, and Arkan Army has proved by dismantling various battalions,

infantry battalions, and even capturing alive second highest commanding officer in the whole of Rakhine State. And also many senior level officers have been killed over this battle. So the reality and perception has been deeper on Myanmar military when we look at it from from external perspective yeah and I think just in case listeners aren't familiar it can be very confusing if you don't read about this stuff all the time it's sort of an alphabet soup of of organizations and especially with

reference to Rohingya and Rakhine state because we have Rohingya armed groups or armed groups which draw mostly from Rohingya people that don't necessarily represent them all and then we have the AA. So can you explain the AA's relationship to Rakhine State and then how they relate to Rohingya people? The AA has been established in 2009 with aim to be having confederations and not less than WA, which is another special region in Myanmar with a special autonomy. And it has been led by some young people and it has been quite a leadership as well within

the Rakhine political spectrum and AAE has been growing very rapidly and the acceptance of the people, particularly Rakhine people, has been very high. Therefore, the resource allocations that AAE got from human resource to other resource to be rapidly coping with that group growth has been high and that put them in a position is to be standing in front of junta in a very stronger uh positions and and uh and defeat them in uh and and and very rapidly and of course the the arkhan army uh which we refer here as a is not uh as inclusive as rakhine

rakhine state is very diverse and it has got a multiple ethnic group the largest ethnic group is rakhine religiously buddhist people and to which a majority of our kind of army's leadership derived from there and there is second largest majority which are the rohingya and truhinga are still the second largest majority in the Rakhine State, despite a million being pushed out to Bangladesh in 2017 and several hundred thousand spread across the region. And the inclusivity in an Rakhine Army is still not there. and uh uh still not there uh when you know when we talk about rohingya this means that there might be some small a small number of rohingyas in different but aliens of arkan army and the administrative units that they are building at a very grassroot level however

uh the the the ringer need to be included both by functions and in order to have to describe that relationship in inclusively between the Rohingya people and the Arakan area. Yeah and is that Arakan is that am I right Arakan's the name of the area before it was called Rakhine state is that right? Correct it it's even it's before Burma became Burma Arakan was a king kingdom and it used to have its own palace and its diversity, its heritage and its natural resources. And then of course the Burmese colonizations happened within Burma and later on Arkand has been named as Rakhine State.

Yeah. So it describes a geographical rather than ethnic identity, right? Which is distinct from some of the other revolutionary organizations like Karenka or any Kachin or what have you. I think there are similarities and as well as there are differences when you put them together and from a diversity perspective our kind of state is very diverse compared to other ethnic groups and also it's politically very complex. But there are overall similarities as well like you know all are fighting to defeat the junta to end the dictatorship in Myanmar but the primary thing here is the

self-determination and self-autonomy like people want to decide to determine what is their present and future look like, how they want to treat with their past. That's the aspect. But of course, like to the best of my knowledge, these ethnic resistance organizations, both political and the armed groups, have never claimed that they want to separate from Myanmar. It's coming together in a different way.

The holding together would be in a different way. Yeah, and even when I speak to Burma people who are like the majority ethnicity and the ethnicity from which the junta's leadership are drawn, like they tell me they're committed to a federal and like a federal Myanmar with autonomy committed to a federal and and like a federal myanmar with autonomy for these different regions and groups and that's something that has held that coalition together right yeah the in it approximately more than 50 million

populations in myanmar majority are abramis buddhist and they have been having this uh are Burmese Buddhists and they have been having this Buddhist supremacy and like Burma supremacy over ethnic and religious minorities across the country and of course Kachin Kaur and others and went to determine when to when the their future by themselves and have an equal see both their functions and number. And that's where we're having the 70 years long civil war. That's came to a collective revolution in 2021. And historically speaking, people have been fighting in Myanmar for equality, justice and to end the cycle of impunity for the last 17 plus years.

Great. I think that's a great place to take our first advertising break. Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories,

their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how Tex Elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search, Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season, I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel-winning economists to leading journalists in the field, and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming

and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong, though. I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough, so join me every week to understand what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again,

the podcast where we dive deep into the world of Latin culture, musica, películas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real into the world of Latin culture, musica, peliculas, and entertainment with some of the biggest names in the game. If you love hearing real conversations with your favorite Latin celebrities, artists, and culture shifters, this is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes.

You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs and all the vibes that you love. Each week we'll explore everything from music and pop culture to deeper topics like identity, community and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, el té caliente and life stories.

Join me for Gracias Come Again, a podcast by Honey German where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, and we're back. I think you did an excellent job of explaining the history that got us here. You did an excellent job of explaining the history that got us here. And people will be very familiar with the atrocities committed by the Burmese military and its proxies against the Rohingya people, I hope.

But one thing that's been happening recently, which is particularly appalling is the forced recruitment of Rohingya people by that same military, right? And can you explain what's been going on? same military, right? Can you explain what's been going on? So the conscription law has been reactivated. It has been there, launched by the previous military dictators, but it has not been active. And so since the junta has been falling apart and collapsing, not only Rakhine State, across the country, wherever they fight, they lose. And they have battalions by battalion that's running away to Thailand,

running away to India, running away to Bangladesh, and putting white flag, and there are several casualties. And apparently the junta became the largest military equipment supplier to the revolutionary force where we did not get international support when young people, actress models and writers, poets decided to go to the forest to fight against this hunter. And there was little to no international support, and we have been struggling to equip ourselves to fight this hunter. And, of course, the resilience and the courage that young people had

and the tactical and strategic strategy capacity that ethnic resistance organization had in combined uh became a a a factor uh to have an strategic sourcing of the military equipment and where like battalion by battalion you don't need to buy the weapons and military tank and things like that you you you go and fight one battalion and they run away or they die and then you take over the that's how uh the the whole whole thing um started in in in in in air then when they are losing uh they they reactivated this uh conscription store and uh started to in the interest of making making mandatory uh everyone to be serving by force in the military by chance. And of course, when it's come to Rakhine State, there are 600,000 Rohingya, and 250,000 to 60,000 of them have been in concentration camp,

consolidated in one place with movement restrictions, no access to education, healthcare and things like that where they have been living more than a decade in some of those camps. And villages where those people who are not in the camp as well has been imposed by additional movement restrictions. So you don't need to really go and mobilize and people to be forcefully recruiting and they at the beginning the junta went to them and to to give them sort of a show them incentive

of like you will become the citizens and we'll give that and we'll give that and you need to fight against uh the the the the uh arkham army and of course the uh the grassroots uh the leader community leader uh responded uh in a way that they need to respond to reject the the request from from the uh from the military hometown and malaysia i started to of course impose uh by using the force and as i mentioned earlier they will need to like when you have consolidated people that amount of young people doing nothing and you just go and catch them and put them on a truck and some of them don't know where they are going because their whole life has been in this camp like when you're six years old and you're now 18 and you're it's an industry for you to

be serving in the military and you don't know what is happening in our side of your camp because so that's how really the and and then we we got these these news and of course uh uh we have been talking different community leaders and the community has been approaching to us as a government and and we make uh you know we there are several media coverage as well then the military started to say but these uh these bengalis are not uh not referring to the rohingya are not the citizens of yamaha Therefore, there is no way that we make them serve in the military. So those are fake news that so they use these states, propaganda TV channel and the state newspaper, which is now under control of SAC to deny that and, 7th of March, those who they have kind of shifted, more than 500 has been

brought into the commanding office of the junta to be training in full uniform. Some of those inside there has managed to get internet access and then sent to me the video footage, what is happening inside there so i i posted that on my twitter and uh and then uh it's it's a spread it from there uh and then we we caught them like their denial initially and the lies that they have been putting by denying that from rohingya we're not conscripted oh's wrong? And then a few days later they have been sent to the frontline to fight against the AA and then there are hundreds of those Rohingyas who were who died in this frontline while and the junta came back a few days later talking to their

family saying that okay 100 plus people have died and we don't know who is who. And when we bring you that body, you will be able to identify. And the first dead body that they brought and handed over to the community leader with 1 million jets, which is $350 plus 100 kg of rice as an incentive for the life that they have given in fighting. So that's the situation. And we can, of course, continue. Yeah, that's very bleak, isn't it?

And so this and we've seen like just today, actually, people have been online today. There was a protest in Rakhine State somewhere of Rohingya people rejecting the Arakan army. Can you explain, like, that might not be what it seems on the face of it, right? Can you explain what might be happening there? The situations in Rakhine State has been very much complex because there are hidden factors being created, artificially created by the junta for so long, from 2012, 2017.

Between these different communities, there has been always interdependency and social position to some level. But junta always used the divide and rule methodology to bring the conflict between these community and hate each other and then they can carry out what they need to do as a power holder. And of course when the Arkan army is getting greater control over the Achaian state and the junta is losing, estate and the the hunter is losing uh the the the the military hunter need to use all tactics that they have including the the the uh the uh inter-communal uh tensions and and and so they

there are uh uh rohingya uh few ringer maybe who has businesses with these uh these uh this hunter are being used as a proxy to push pressure on the Rohingya and to organize. And so that's why the protest started a few days ago in one of the townships in Rakhine state, where 80 to 90% are Rohingya and claiming that we don't want war and we don't want EE. And of course, this can be happening artificially, organically, and it's so artificial. And anyone who looks into this video footage can see that the Rohingya never had in their life, like those who are protesting, never know what freedom of expression means. And suddenly, in one random morning, hundreds 100 of Rohingya including minors,

children coming on the street and protesting is not something normal. It can happen without the and of course majority of the Rohingya are peace loving people and they want Burma to be an inclusive federal democracy and they want to be part of it and we are that's why I myself as a Rohingya taking a leading role in the government as the first Rohingya holding back ministerial positions in the cabinet since 1962 and of course the Rohingya equally want to end the dictatorship once and for all, because that very junta has been committing atrocities, crimes, including crimes against humanity and to genocide to Rohingya.

This is the very same military who deported a million Rohingya, killed more than 24,000 people in burning children's life in 2017. So in which way that Rohingya collectively will come and extend this junta with the whole country. So this is not, this is really not something organic and this is artificial. This is so fake and this is so like junta made and this is so like hunter made uh into fit into be fitting into their political propaganda yeah and i think one has to when one's looking at things in myanmar be aware that the hunter just doesn't care about lying uh it's it's something they've done for a long time apparently you can't download uh iheart podcasts in myanmar now like uh someone tried to download our podcast there and so they had to use a vpn but yeah they manipulate the media environment heavily like you can read hunter newspapers and it's

some of it's comically uh false but one thing i did want to talk about is like when i talked to young pdf fighters and i've spoken to dozens of them now people who are kareni people who are karen people who are bama people who are kachin they a lot of them say to me that like what happened in 2017 was atrocious and at the time they didn't realize because of this manipulated media environment they didn't realize that the way the rehingo were being treated was so appalling and that now they're very upset about what happened and like for them i guess the uh the litmus test for um like a future for burma is one that can include rohingya people and so like with that in mind i guess um we've seen this kind of changing of language right where previously they were referred

to as bangladeshi and then now they're referred to as Muslim or Rohingya people. I guess, can you just explain, what is the NUG PDF? How do we ensure independence and safety for Rohingya people in Myanmar in a federal democratic future without a dictatorship? in Myanmar in a federal democratic future without a dictatorship? We are in a context of identity politics, where the identity is so much associated with very rights, whether it's political, social, and economical rights that you deserve and what you need to give back as an active citizens and obligations to the country that you belong.

Therefore, the identity of the Rohingya is a primary thing for Rohingya to be enjoying equal freedom and to be able to contribute equally as others in the nation-building process. And of course, before 2017, even before that, there has been a lot of misinformation, disinformation, propaganda, widespread state-sponsored against the Rohingya that could be misleading and incitement of violence. And the term Bengali is a term that refers that you are coming

from Bangladesh illegally and you are illegally resettling. That's how the terms came to come. It's false, right? It's a false accusation. It's false accusations. And the Rohingya people has existed in Rakhine state side by side with Rakhine people, even Burma became Burma. And there are historical facts and there are so many undeniable things that you could look into,

into various historical facts. And so in between, of course, the Rohingya, the Trump become illegal and the military denied it, rejected it. the term became illegal and the military denied it, rejected it. And then they started to use the term Bengali and most of the Burmese people fall into that trap and even some were either silent in this horrific genocidal attack in 2017 or some were taking sight of a military at that time that it's okay to kill and it's okay to... And of course course these are

being uh being um propelled by all these informations and disinformation that i earlier mentioned and and and 2021 attempted coup happened and that's where a new perspective is being offered to the people of myanmar because the same military that has been carrying out atrocities crimes yeah against the rohingya and other minorities came to large of people are doing the same thing so what has been uh told uh to us by the rohingya and and the religious and ethnic minority in myanmar for the decade came to be true and and that's how the acceptance of the rohingya has started to grow. Of course, it's not to the level that we'd be satisfied with yet. It's a process and there is so much to unlearn

because one provoking factor like attempted two wouldn't fix a problem that has been there for decades. And the National United Government declared that we accept the Trump Rohingya and there has been a policy stating very clearly in 2021 June and that policy to be implemented. Of course, when the situation is conducive and there are significant challenges with the territorial control and things like that when it's come. But again, the momentum that I mentioned we got as a result of extreme revolutions need to be maintained at the higher scale. That's not only the Rohingya and anything that's wrong, that's principle and value-wise wrong, we need to be able to say it's wrong, that's principle and value-wise wrong,

we need to be able to say it's wrong, regardless of whoever it is, and regardless of race and religion. If we are talking about federal inclusive democracy, we cannot preach to our people or international community saying that support us or asking for support or be a part of this movement where we see a separate fraud fisher as an inclusive federal democracy where actual values that we are not practicing by ourselves so before we preach we need to uh we need to act upon those principles by ourselves and uh and overall i would say the all the loss that we had including uh life and livelihoods that hundreds and hundreds of people,

thousands of people has been killed, jailed, and hundreds of villages, townships has been destroyed. The good thing that we got is this consciousness on the morality. And if we're able to accelerate that consciousness at the greatest scale, that's where we will be able to maintain the values and principles of the inclusive federal democracy. That will be the pillar to maintain this as a process. Yeah, I think so.

It's really fascinating to talk to young people. I was talking to some Mandalay PDF people not so long ago, and they were like, oh, yeah, well, when we left, we were told that like the Ta'ang would hate us because we're Burmese and they would fight us and then they're like, oh, they're really nice. Like this is a Ta'ang guy right next to me. And they're like, because they're joined up together now, the PDFs and the EROs are largely fighting like side by side against Sohinder. Is there like, are there PDF forces present in Rakhine state as well? Is there like, are there PDF forces present in Rakhine State as well?

No, there is an army, particularly, which is an alliance with the, we have been, there have been multiple, like, you know, we have alliance relations committee that would deal with all the alliance as national unity government. And of course, they have been playing an important role in defeating the junta, and there is no PDF in Rakhine State. Okay. Yeah, so it's a little different there. Although often the PDF and the ERAs are very similar in fight side by side.

Also, Rakhine Army is not alone in Rakhine State. They are also in Shahna State, and they are fighting not alone in Rakhine State. They are also in Shahnaz State, and they are fighting not only in Rakhine State. So when we talk about, even though the physical EPDFs are not there, it doesn't mean that there is no military connection between the ethnic organizations that exist across the country. Yeah, and we've seen that a lot since October,

since the Three Brother Alliance started their campaign. That moves junta forces to one place, and that allows other people like the Karenni to take advantage of the way those forces have moved, and they've liberated huge parts of their territory. So look, it's all joined, all joined i guess yeah the tricky part that they have used in the past is like hidden cut is that they will do ceasefire in one part of the country and allocate all of their resources in another part of the country and where they will

defeat or they will at least like come to a bargaining positions let's not fight anymore and uh and you stay where you are and don't don't try to um like you know and and it's hunter who violate again all all these agreements that they usually sell and uh and this time uh it's so coordinated uh across the country that the juntata cannot be able to position themselves or strategize themselves or put themselves in the tactical positions. Their old tactic did not work in the modern coordinations of the PDF and Ethnic Resistance Organization. Yeah, no, they've tried multiple times to have little individual ceasefires and it hasn't worked. and it hasn't worked.

Hey guys, I'm Kate Max. You might know me from my popular online series, The Running Interview Show, where I run with celebrities, athletes, entrepreneurs, and more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast, Post Run High, is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once

we've hit the pavement together. You know that rush of endorphins you feel after a great workout? Well, that's when the real magic happens. So if you love hearing real, inspiring stories from the people you know, follow, and admire, join me every week for Post Run High. It's where we take the conversation beyond the run and get into the heart of it all. It's lighthearted, pretty crazy, and very fun. Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hi, I'm Ed Zitron, host of the Better Offline podcast, and we're kicking off our second season digging into how tech's elite has turned Silicon Valley into a playground for billionaires. From the chaotic world of generative AI to the destruction of Google search,

Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech from an industry veteran with nothing to lose. This season I'm going to be joined by everyone from Nobel winning economists to leading journalists in the field and I'll be digging into why the products you love keep getting worse and naming and shaming those responsible. Don't get me wrong though, I love technology. I just hate the people in charge and want them to get back to building things that actually do things to help real people. I swear to God things can change if we're loud enough. So join me every week to understand

what's happening in the tech industry and what could be done to make things better. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts. Check out betteroffline.com. Hola, mi gente. It's Honey German, and I'm bringing you Gracias, Come Again, Check out betteroffline.com. This is the podcast for you. We're talking real conversations with our Latin stars, from actors and artists to musicians and creators, sharing their stories, struggles, and successes. You know it's going to be filled with chisme laughs

and all the vibes that you love. Each week, we'll explore everything, from music and pop culture, to deeper topics like identity, community, and breaking down barriers in all sorts of industries. Don't miss out on the fun, El Te Caliente and life stories. Join me for Gracias Come Again,

a podcast by Honey German, where we get into todo lo actual y viral. Listen to Gracias Come Again on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So I wanted to ask, just to finish up, people I think who listen to this will be very familiar with the situation in Myanmar and they want to help and they see that the international

community is doing nothing. And I think a lot of people are rightly very upset about that. So what can people do to help and especially to advocate for Rohingya people? Particularly when it comes to the Rohingya people, the Rohingya people crisis is so much interconnected with Burmese democratization process. Rohingya will not be able to have a life that's dignified, safe and in their place of origin the Burma is solely in the hand of a civilian government. So the democratization process that whole Burma is attempting to make needs to be supported by the international community,

as I mentioned earlier. So far, we got little to no international support. And on the Rohingya crisis as well, there's one million people in Bangladesh where their rations are cut to $8 per month per person, which is a cup of coffee in the United

States. And there is a greater danger of hunger, starvation, and malnutrition, and so many other social economic problems that would have an impact on the regional security, stability and things like that if the shortfall remains, funding shortfall remains for Rohingya.

That's on the humanitarian end. and of course Rohingya need to be politically organized in order to be fitting into the changing political dynamic of Myanmar. Rohingya has been oppressed, they were not able to form civil society organizations, they were not able to be educating themselves. So all these societal leadership aspects need to be supported, including a company like having an organized political platform for Rohingya which will be able to represent Rohingya in the larger political table ensuring their voices are heard and they're able to equally take the rights that they deserve and more importantly equally able to contribute to decisions that will have an impact on their life and the United States has determined the crimes against Rohingya as genocide two years before and of course the genocide discrimination does not simply is a an announcement it's come with the moral and legal responsibility so we we we do want

to request united states and its people to uh to firmly stand on the moral and legal obligations that it has in ensuring that the rohingya are able to live equally peacefully and more importantly the justice uh that they deserve on on the on the physical and mental damage that happened as part of the genocide and it was picked in 2017, it's continued to be happening today. And even today 150 people were arriving in Aceh, Indonesia where the Indonesian people who were showing greater humanity in opening their arms and parts to be accepting Rohingya are denying the Rohingya. So for the Rohingya there is little to no space to be accommodated both in regional and international and local setting and it is very important that we are able to tackle and navigate

these issues together with the international community in an innovative, effective, efficient and sustainable way for the sake of humanity. And there are competing priorities across the world. But the international community is, we are so aware that international communities are capable of doing more than one thing at a time. It doesn't have to be either or. No, it can be both. And it should be, right? Like, obviously, people are very concerned with the plight of Palestinian people, rightly so at the moment. But yes, we should remember that other Muslim people have been subject to genocide for the last nearly seven years, I suppose.

And it's ongoing and they deserve our support and solidarity as well. Yeah, I hope. Yeah. Yeah. and solidarity as well. Yeah, I hope. Yeah, I mean, it does seem like, I guess, a little more hopeful than it was even a couple of years ago that there will be a democratic Myanmar and not so far away.

Yeah, the journey is almost made, and what we need is greater international support. Support doesn't mean just you know releasing the statement meaningful comprehensive support that we are uh able to defeat this hunter once and for all for the sake of people of myanmar 50 plus million people giving the price at the highest possible price in their life. That includes, again,

the lives and livelihood. An international community was not doing more than condemnations or releasing a statement of concern over the last three years. But it's time to act. And an international community,

again, has to answer this question to next generations when there's questions on the morality where the international community again has to answer this question to next generations uh when there's a questions on the morality where where the international community when the genocide comes against humanity and war crime has been happening to millions of people in the eyes of international community yeah no i hope they do and uh it's incredible the progress that has been made without that support like and i think uh it's just incredible to me that even you know i remember in 2021 talking to people who were

just uh beginning their fight and to see how far they've come is outstanding and yeah and yeah people should be very proud of that but it doesn't mean that they they don't need more support they do doesn't mean that they don't need surface to our missiles. They do like that. That is the thing that we should be doing. Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate your time and your insight into this. Is there anywhere where people can find you online if they want to follow on?

Yeah, I, uh, they can follow me on my Twitter and Facebook and uh uh i it's uh my twitter is ak2 okay and uh my my uh facebook is like my name if you type my name on john thank you thank you so much thank you for having me yeah you're welcome it could happen here is a production of cool zone media for more podcasts from cool zone media visit our website coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts you can find sources sources for It Could Happen Here updated monthly at coolzonemedia.com slash sources. Thanks for listening. more. After those runs, the conversations keep going. That's what my podcast Post Run High is all about. It's a chance to sit down with my guests and dive even deeper into their stories, their journeys, and the thoughts that arise once we've hit the pavement together.

Listen to Post Run High on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Better Offline is your unvarnished and at times unhinged look at the underbelly of tech brought to you by an industry veteran with nothing to lose. Listen to Better Offline on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, wherever else you get your podcasts from. On Thanksgiving Day, 1999, five-year-old Cuban boy Elian Gonzalez was found off the coast of Florida. And the question was, should the boy go back to his father in Cuba? Mr. Gonzalez wanted to go home, and he wanted to take his son with him. Or stay with his relatives in Miami? Imagine that your mother died trying to get you to freedom. Listen to Chess Peace, the Elian Gonzalez story,

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