IT IS WHAT IT IS - COMEBACK KIDS IN NEW YORK & THE STEPHEN A SMITH BEEF WITH JAYLEN BROWN

Episode Date: May 20, 2026

Ma$e, Cam’ron & Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson are back with another one!! Please rate, review, and follow the podcast for more content.  Listen to the show on Spotify!  https://open.spotify.com/show/4Brb7BgCw4f4jwgS5v3sXQ?si=811988ecff7b416a Listen to the show on Apple Podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/it-is-what-it-is/id1719695401 Keep up with us on social media! https://www.instagram.com/itiswhatitis_talk/ Snap:  https://www.snapchat.com/add/iiwii_talk2023  Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/ItIsWhatItIsTalk TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maseandcam Twitter:  https://www.x.com/iiwiitalk Follow Our Hosts! https://www.instagram.com/masonbetha/ https://www.instagram.com/mr_camron/ https://www.instagram.com/treasurewilsxn/ Follow the show and our hosts on social media: ⁠⁠⁠It Is What It Is⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Cam'Ron⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Ma$e⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson⁠⁠⁠ , ⁠⁠⁠Producer Ayooo Nick⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to It Is What It Is. I'm Treasure Wilson, aka Stap Baby, along with your host, Mace. Cam will be back and y'all today we are joined with our analyst Maurice Claret. Mom was good, but you know what it seems. Hey, y'all got us game one. No, we give y'all game one. It was a struggle. It's a whole lot to say, though.

And y'all heard me in the group chat. It's a whole lot to say about these Cleveland Cavaliers in the fourth quarter, but I give it to you like that. I'll say pause, right? I'll say pause after that, but you know, you know, Sin was the first one that hit me up, right? So we get done playing and, or they get done playing, and I got a 30 second voice memo from seeing, sin with like, Hey, Mo. What Cam and May's talking about?

He's like, they were talking all crazy about James Harden. He was like, didn't I tell you about Jalen Brunson? And so my man Seale was the first one to call him. But y'all got the one. Congratulations to seeing. Congratulations to all the New York Knicks fans. And I'll leave it at that. It was a great game last night.

What can I say, man? What do you mean? What do you say? I'm not surprised. Talk about what can I say? You can't say y'all got it. You have to say Knicks fans got it, because BASE, you jumped ship so long ago.

And now you're like, what can I say? No, you can't say nothing. You have to address Nick's fans. Nick's fans. I'm not saying what can I say as if I'm on the bandwagon. I'm saying, what can I say? It's a game. There's still not where we're talking about arriving at yet.

We're still celebrating. celebrating this. It's like the white girl running in the forest and she looked like she's getting away. We know this movie, right? See, this is the part that gets crazy. You guys are seeing the white lady running in the forest and you hit.

And you think she got away. It's still in the forest. It's still, it's still fall and break. and break her ankle and go, oh, my goodness. Oh, my goodness. Hold a stat real quick. Do you know what he was referencing when he made that noise? No.

So that's adjacent Vohorhe's references. So I remember I told you, I got to remember that you 24. So he was referencing Jason. Jason going to catch up. No, that's a reference I should know because those are my type of movies, but that did not click. But...

So it's that. The lady would always be running, but we know Jason is not running. He's just walking slow with a big butcher knife in his hands in a movie called Halloween. And at some point, she's gonna fall, and he's gonna catch her. And he's gonna... In the movie, he kills her every time, you know?

But it looks like she's getting away. She made it to the car. until you find out Jason is in the car. So I know you're saying at some point she's going to fall. This situation might be different. And when we talk about this game, I'm going to be like the advocate on the other side since we don't have a Knicks representative.

I'm not saying I'm a Knicks fan. I'm just going to say what Knicks fans would say because we have to have a holistic point of view for this game. I know you're saying you know how this movie ends. it might not this time. So let's get into it. So we had back to back overtime games. And honestly, playoffs have been phenomenal so far.

So the Knicks had the largest playoff comeback in franchise history, erasing a 22.4th quarter deficit to beat the Cavs in overtime, 115 to 104. Like Mace said, Maris, I know sometimes we've seen this movie before, but it could be different. Like we're saying, this could be the year. So, Maris, can you break down what happened and your thoughts on this game one? Yeah, I can break them down.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have a lot to say, you know, ever since the game was over last night. I've been talking about it in group chats into my home voice, who we chat about the games. But the shorter the long is that it felt like when a Knicks started the game, I don't know if you call it ring rust or just rust from not playing, but the Knicks just didn't have the fluidity or just the momentum that they basically had had in the playoffs to get to this point. And you have seen Donovan Mitchell and crew initially start off faster than Nixon. They jumped out to a lead and the first quarter seen competitive, but it went through

the second and then into the third quarter. And then once the third quarter happened, and I even shared this message in the group chat where I was like, yo, this seems like a boring game of basketball from quarter two to quarter three. It just felt like that they was exchanging buckets and nothing really happening. And then somewhere within, I don't know if it was a timeout that happened, I don't know if it was like a wave of energy that through Jailen Brutts's brain. I don't know what happened with the Knicks locker room,

but essentially, you know, they just sort of hit into another gear or got into another gear. And this is where I always talk about, y'all hear me during football season, y'all hear me during college basketball season, and y'all hear me now, I always talk about mentality, right? And this sort of builds on to the conversation we were having about last week about people having something to prove and people wanting to be great.

And it was something that when jail And the crew started to basically say, hey, man, we're about to take this from y'all on our home court, and we're about to establish our dominance on our home court. There was no fight in Donovan Mitchell. There was no fight in James Hardin. And there was no fight from the Cleveland Cavaliers in general.

There was no awareness from their coach to say, hey, man, as the energy is shifting, as the momentum is shifting inside of the stadium, like, I have to stop this. Like, part of the coaching is knowing that your fighters, getting beat up, your team is getting beat up, and why they have this momentum, let me stop doing, let me stop regroup and make another plan.

All of those isolations that Jalen Brunson were, when they start picking on James Harder and James Harden, couldn't do nothing with him, and he was like, basically creating so much offense, like that is bad coaching, right? But the coaching and the players, their mentality mimics one, they mimic one another. And so when I've seen this and then when they push the game into overtime and even with the bad shot

at the top of the key, I forget whatever his guy named me. It was those number three for the Cavaliers. When he shot the bad shot at the last end of the game, I said there's no way that you're in New York and there's no way that they have this momentum and all that energy on the side. There's no way that they do it.

And right now, what this comes down to is that Jalen Brunson has that thing that as I'm trying to be great, I have something to prove. And that was the dominance that they displayed last night at the end of the third quarter or the beginning of the fourth quarter that carried them into overtime to create the victory. And it's that mentality that I think is going to be the difference maker throughout this playoffs. And I think the Knicks will ultimately beat them because of something like that.

Yeah, this was this was remarkable. I'm saying as a point guard, to have that many points in the playoffs is, it's just, it's just remarkable. When you think of like all of the guards who have had great performances in Madison Square Garden, I got to put this up there. I got to put this up there with Mike. I got it when Mike have 45 or 50, even though it's not quite 40 yet or it's not 50, it paused.

It felt like the same 50. I mean, from in a person that I've seen, people come to New York and go crazy from the LeBron's stuff. I mean, just everybody. The same way Caleb came through there last time. I don't think, you know, we've never seen them numbers from a New York Nick, right? We've seen people come there and tear New York up. We've seen Reggie Miller come and do this,

but we've never really seen a New York player come through New York and have the same game in the mecca that everybody else have. And I'm telling you, for that to start off, this East Coast finals, it was a way to do it, you know. And to do it really on some two premier guards. I think that makes it even crazier. Like these are not pooh-puts we're talking about. These are guys that people call them guys, right?

People call James Hardin, one of those guys. Not that he plays defense, but this is when being a two-way player counts. It's for everybody that keeps saying people are great, When they're only great on one side of the basketball, this is why that is a no go when it comes to Titletown because you look crazy out there. I'm telling you, Jalen Brunson was making James Harden look crazy. Whatever we thought about James Hardin, whatever we felt about James Hardin, and I'm a James Hardin advocate. He had James Hardin looking crazy.

And he looked helpless. And at one point, I think there was up, it was, it was 103 to 101. James Harding just reaching because he knew he couldn't got him. Yeah. Make it look playing deep. He still gets basket. He's going baseline. It was just, we could talk about so many things, but that's the real nugget of this game.

Now, if the Knicks are to win this series, it's still not a lot to get excited yet. I don't think they beat Shay and I, but I do think they can be San Antonio. So I'm kind of conflicted. I'm really conflicted about it. But this was a phenomenal game and I hate to bring it to be such a short take with what it's about. But that's the 38. That matters. I don't think we talk a lot about James Hardin and his 15 or Donovan Mitchell, the real highlight of the night.

Like they used to do in the Daily News. They picked the person with the most points, and they put all of the focus on that and maybe one other player. And that's what I'm doing in great New York fashion. That's how they used to do it in the Daily News. That's how I'm going to do it today. I'll say this. And there was so much to say that's kind of like I didn't know even where to start because I didn't know the question that that was going to talk about. But this is what I know.

You don't have to be a basketball analyst. for this. You don't have to be a football analyst. You just have to be somebody who's watched sports for forever. Like I've watched sports for my entire life. And when you go into playoff moments, championship moments, or premier moments, the guys who are in that locker room, like rather they say it directly or indirectly, they look to the dudes who are compensated the most who get the most praise, who have all the fanfare, who have the shoe deals, who have the endorsements. And they say, brother, this is a this is your time. This is your time to step up. This is your time to seize the moment. You're the person who got everybody has your jerseys on. These are those moments, right? And this is what I was saying, like piggyback into the conversation that we had last week about, just like the theory of like just the idea of being great and being great matter. It doesn't matter about everything else. What it matters most is that when it actually counted and when your team actually depended on you, where did you stand in those moments when we were talking about the game of

basketball and the thing that I look at when things get tough on that court, I see no leadership on the Cleveland Cavaliers team. There was nobody like Donovan Mitchell had great moments in regards to dominating the game, taking over, taking the ball to the rack, getting to the pain at will and he had those moments, right? But nobody cares until it comes to that fourth quarter. And in that fourth quarter, it made me think back to when Shaq had addressed him on the court and talked about he wasn't great. If I was Donovan Mitchell, I would have held on to that moment and I would have been out here like, man, I have something to prove to myself, but also to somebody like Shaq and other people who said I couldn't get it done in big moments. And you're aware when it's a big

moment. That's how I felt about that. It was a huge moment, even for James Hart, I'm pretty sure all this max contract shit, you make a lot of money. Like, there's a lot of niggas in the NBA who make a lot of money. So money doesn't matter to niggas of the NBA, right? It, matters when it actually matters most. When we playing ball, back to the thing that we started doing this thing for in the beginning of time, where did you stand in those times? And so that's what I'm seeing that there was no fight, right? And when you get to this level, when you get to this point of the season, you need people on your team trying to prove something because there's something else that goes off in you. And I don't know what it is, pause. I have no idea what it

is. It's this fight. It's just like, I got something to prove. And you can see it in Jailen Brunton's eyes. You can see it in his face, like he has something to prove because he's probably been outside of New York, and New York is a little bit harsher to other places and hearing that shit over and over again. And he's like, you know what? I'm about to bring my ass in this gym, do everything I can to fight, and the team moves with that spirit. And so, like, there's a bunch to talk about, and I don't know if I did a good job talking about it the first time, but I definitely wanted to talk about it this time with just the mentality of being great and it being about nothing but basketball. And that's what you've seen. Like, I think everybody,

can take something from that. That's what you've seen last night. Yeah. And another thing I want to add to this New York team, remember I said like the Daily News. They picked two players. They put them in the stat, and that's the news. They say the NICs, the NICs exposed the Cleveland Cavaliers. And then they'll say, Jalen Brunson went for 38 points, and McKell Bridges added 18. And McKell Bridges is anywhere 18 and up. This is the championship team. I really have to say this.

I always thought the Knicks could make it to the finals. The objective on both sides. So it's not me speaking out of both sides of my mouth. It's giving pause both, both ideologies, because there's two people listening. There's people that's listening to say they love what the Knicks are doing. And there's people like myself that are saying, you know what? I've seen this before. So we already know that side of I've seen it before.

But let's talk for Nick's fans, for those that are thinking the Knicks could go. If McKell Bridges is showing up, they are champions. I'm going to be the first one to tell you. He's the missing link of this team. He's the wild card. He's the Dennis Robin. in rebounds, not in hustle plays, but he's one of those people. He can make the difference on his team. It will not be Josh Hart. Y'all remember me? Quote me on this. If he shows up,

this is a championship team. If he can keep himself anywhere close to 18, whether it's 17 and up, this is going to be a championship team. Because I think that's what it boils down to, because you're going to get what you're going to get from Jalen Brunson, and then you're going to find Cad and people like that will show up and do what they need to get done. But having that third option, having that person who shows up, whether it's, you know, the other night we saw it from Caruso or different people like that, those other unusual suspects,

that's what makes a championship team. So I like this for the Knicks. I thought they should be in the championship when it comes down to it. But to win it, that's what they would need to do. McKell Bridges got to show up. They're going to need a third person to show up to be a championship team. Yeah. I want to add, I'm not really questioning fully if they're a championship team.

It's mainly like, are they going to be able to maintain this? Because like we said, seeing from McKell Bridges scoring 18, but then seeing earlier in the other rounds, you know, you scoring zero versus the Hawks. It's like, are you going to keep being inconsistent or are you going to show up in these moments? And I think for game one, him showing up in these moments is really what counts for them because what I worry for the Knicks, like I said, great game one is exciting. Nix fans should be fired up. Like you guys should be out partying and celebrating right now. But I think this now I feel like this series is going to go all seven games because I think

it's going to be kind of a bit of a tug of war because we saw. all Jalen Brunson did what he was supposed to do and he was the one to deliver. That's why he had 38 points. Oh, no. I think, no, I think that's why I think it might be. I think it might be a little tug award because I think by next game, CABs might have figured something out and then by then Nix are going to be able. I think it's going to go a little back and forth at first.

I know that we saw some not the best moments from the cabs and I would explicitly point at James Hardin and I think Evan Mowgli could do a little bit better even you want to see more from Schrooter, you want to see more from Max Struz. I think combined as they get into the groove, it'll get a little bit better, especially because we've seen the calves are kind of known for taking it to seven games. But I just think that if the Knicks can remain consistent, which also we haven't really seen that from them either.

That's why I'm seeing it might just go a little bit longer. But I do also want to point out, because I remember a couple episodes ago, we were getting on Landry, like his name. We were like, this is a whack name. Like he's not that, he's not this. And I think Josh, even last week, Stephen A's, I believe cousin, that's what it is, right, Nick? His cousin. Nephew.

Nephew, Josh, Stephen A's nephew. He was speaking up and he said what he had to say. And then boom, in this game, he comes and then he brings it to a tie. So I think, again, to Mace's points, he was saying those other players that kind of need to come in and step up. So it's not all on Jalen Brunson. I think it's going to be a fight between all these players. So I think it's going to be a great series. But of course, it brings us questions.

to that other series because we're seeing what the Spurs are working with. We're seeing what OKC's working with. That's where it's like, how much of a fight is it? How much of a fight? Go ahead, Marie. But sometimes it just is what it is and you, like we would love McKell Bridges to show up, and we would love for Kat to show up.

But that's what makes people great despite other people, like rather they show up, or not them exuding their greatness. And I think that's pretty much what's going to happen with the Knicks, right? If somebody else was going to step up before Jalen Brunson had stepped up, they would have done it. You know what I'm saying? But I'm pretty sure he may have weighed in back. He may have held back or look for somebody else to get inside an offense and get started or trigger themselves.

But it is what it is with Jailen Brunson. He has to be Mr. Everything. And I think that's what defines the greats, you know what I'm saying? And somebody else who wants to be a McKellivan. Carol Bridges or somebody else who steps up from a time to time, like they'll eventually have to step up and be as great as they can be a side of, maybe a game or two, but the greats have to play great if they want to win.

But I will say this, and I want to make sure that this is on the record. I don't think if it's the Cavs or Knicks, I don't see anybody either beating OKC artists first. Yeah. Borgon conclusion, Mace, do you agree or disagree? On that, Pat. Got it. Enough said.

You can be optimistic, though. If that young boy keep going out there and doing what he's doing, shout out the Jalen Bronson, man. I had to get respect. Just put it on the record. Just put it on the record. Put it on the record. Do you believe either the, and I just want to make sure I'm specifying the question, do you really believe that OKC,

be an okay C or the Spurorers. Do you believe the Cleveland Cavaliers or the Knicks have a chance to beat either of them? I actually do. I actually do. Okay. And this is coming live. Realistic or a safe answer.

And this is coming live from titles. I think the Knicks can beat San Antonio more than they can be O KC. I think the Knicks can beat San Antonio. San Antonio easier than they can be O KC. They will have a hard time with OKC because with OKC, for some reason, Shea would go nuts on the Knicks. Pause, but when it comes to the Spurs, I believe the Knicks again get back from that series

that San Antonio won with Avery, Johnson, I think they'll show up for it. And the record show, the record show, they play good against the spurs. I don't know if you guys have looked into that, but they play very good against the spurs. So that's just my take. You know, I'm always willing to give an independent take.

My takes are not, coach. You can check my account. They're not paying me. Say what I'm saying. I am an independent voice. I don't say what everybody else say. I do my own studying. I do my own reading.

I watch the game. My own brain. I don't throw away my brain to fit in. I just can't do it. I can't do it. Hey, that don't mean you right, though. That's true. That you can pull up the records.

What is the next record against Tonyo this year? I mean, you are right, because the game. games this year, the Knicks only lost one out of their three. So, and then OKC, they've had a harder time. However, though, to that point, I will say the players, I think there's, no, I'm saying though, I just think the energy also has, we've seen an energy transition on the Spurs as well.

So. Hey, stop, let's start, start, start. Yeah, you're into college, right? Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, that's a lot. I don't have friends that pay me what to say.

Nobody, I don't have no affiliations with teams that I gotta say this or say that, you know, there's nowhere for me to go. I'm already at the top. They can't invite me. We're already at the top. Hey, Stad, this is a clarity question, right? So just, yeah, just so I can hear right, you said, because, you know, you can play with words and make them sound different.

Yes. What is the record? What is the record of them playing? Yeah, I'm saying the Spurs only won one of the games, but if we're not counting the Cup, then it would technically be 50-50. Oh, okay. That's the clarity.

I was wrong. You were right. Okay. That's okay. March 1st, the NICS won, December 31st, the Spurs won, and then the NBA Cup, we know the Knicks won that, so. Okay.

So I was wrong. My apologies. I can admit what I'm wrong. I don't know. I think they would have a hard time regardless, but I am going to give the Knicks their game. Like this was a great game. If they just can continue this, at this point, anything's on the table. Go ahead, Mace.

Hey, stat. I normally know things before people know it. That's why people get mad at it. I normally know it before they know it. Maybe I should not say what I know and just let everybody else be true until they're ready to know. But, Maurice, also hearing what he said normally. Like he just said normally. So that's one of those like asterick, by the way, just in case it's not correct.

I was correct. So we'll see though, Mace. Like you do bring up a great point. You do bring up great points. I'm not arguing that. So we'll see. Game two. Okay.

Moving along. So Jalen Brown and Stephen A, they've been going at it for some time. So on stream, I know Jalen Brown was pretty upset because there was a segment on first take where they were discussing Jalen Brown's streaming, which a lot of sports shows have discussed it. We've discussed it as well, just our thoughts on that. So as kind of a comeback, Jalen Brown said on stream, man, F, Stephen A, Stephen A, Stephen B, Stephen C, my offer still stands. You want me to be quiet and stop streaming. Well, I want you to be quiet and get off these networks because you're not using your platform to do real journalism. You're using your platform to use clickbait.

So Stephen A then responded on first take and said, Jalen Brown, be careful what you wish for. You really want me to start reporting on that level. You understand locker room, how the organization might think about you, how the city might feel about you, how Jason Tatum may or may not feel about you, sneaker deals, endorsement deals. The list goes on.

Obviously pretty strong words from Stephen A. Mace actually gonna get your opinion first. How do you feel about basically like journalists, sports journalists, specifically in athletes going back and forth, and then just the comments between both of them? Listen, this is the, This is embarrassing when I think about this. Jalen Brown has the right to do what he wants to do

outside of basketball. And when people start putting these narratives out there, this is what happens, right? We have these platforms. We can make people look right. We can make people look wrong. And sometimes when people are talking, they have other reasons why they

saying what they're saying. Like, there's so many moving parts, Paul's, and there's so many things going behind the scenes. I don't think you guys even know what's really going on with this. Like, when you hear somebody say, this is how the team feels, or this is how the city feels about you, how do you know what the whole city feels? Like, you know the whole city?

Like, we gotta start listening to what people are really saying. And I'm not against, I'm not against Stephen A. I'm not for Jalen Brown, if he's doing something crazy. I'm one of those people right is right and wrong is wrong, but I hate this. I hate with a passion when people that have real powerful platforms, take their platform, and they seem like they only say something negative about this person.

Like they're creating the narrative about this person. And that's how, genuine brown fills i understand that i often spoke about this me and charlemagne been good since them but there was a time when i felt like every time he got a chance to speak about me it was going to be something negative and that's when you personally feel about somebody and you tell me that when you when you were trained in journalism are you are you supposed to feel a certain way about a person and that spew out through your journalism? No.

No, no, not at all. That's not good journalism. And I'm not going to say that he's doing bad journalism, but that's how it begins to come across to Jalen Brown, right? Because he's like, why you can't say nothing good about me? Am I not the light skin player on the team? Is that why you can't give me the credit? You know I was slighted on, on.

on the Olympic team, you know I deserve to be on this team, but the talks behind the scene. And for all of you that desire to get into journalism, all of you that desires to get into this thing, this World Wide Web of Sports, right? You gotta pay attention that you, and if you wanna be in certain circles, you gotta play certain games.

And everybody is not playing those games. Everybody don't play them. And can't nobody tell me nothing different. I personally think that this is one of those situations where they need to sit down. They need to sit down because me being a person looking from the outside, I know what I know, I know what my eyes tell me, I know what's going on with our sports show, I know what will be on sports in a matter of minutes.

I'm not no dummy. I know exactly what's going on. That's why sometime I want to do that's why some time I want to be on. to do you guys know what's going on? That's why I ask you, do you know what's going on right now? Can you see what your eyes was going on? I know what's going on. And I speak in code because sometime I'm by myself, so I can't really tell everybody everything I know,

but in a matter of minutes, in a matter of hours, I will begin to say everything I know, because I can't be quiet on what I know. Right is right and wrong is wrong, no matter who is right, no matter who is wrong. And in this case, I'm reining more towards Jalen Brown, who's right and who's wrong. I will say that. Maurice? Yeah, so I had different thoughts on the right. So I look at Stephen and I look at Jalen Brown as two

decently intelligent human beings, right? And I do agree with Jailen Brown. He says, you know, some things are clickbait, right? But that's the that's the nature of media. You know, somebody edits stuff to get people's attention, right? And then Stephen A has his opinion on Jalen Brown, and he gives his comments. And so, like, I took this into a different direction, right? Once you start saying, fuck you, and you get going back and forth with the personal stuff, it just takes the argument or it takes the, like, the most significant point to the sort of hides them,

and it becomes, like, very macho and ego towards each other. Hey, Moore. And I'm not speaking about the FUs and all of that. That's not what I'm referring to. And I'm not. No, I'm sorry. And I'm not saying that Stephen A. doesn't do a great job. But you can, you can look at and tell that certain things are done.

I agree with you. Yes. Even as you were talking. I think so. I'll finish. I apologize. But I wanted to make sure. So if somebody listening.

to me, they're like, is May's trying to throw a shot? No, I'm going to say exactly what I. And so I'll give clarity on this one. I think from me spending time around you, I think I clearly understand what you're talking about. So I can decipher through what you're saying. And so the average listener may not get what you were talking about, but I can get what you're saying, right?

And I was just trying to talk about with those two, there's a format where people get together and they have an audience of their peers, and then they have discussions around different topics, right? And I think, like, if you made that a normal thing, so just like as media has progressed, and as we have these athlete-driven podcasts, and you have these media personalities,

I don't want to even call Stephen A, sports personality, he's just a media personality. I would just love to hear just, like, intelligent discussion with context, right? And so you let two people, just like they would do battle wrapping, you have two people talk about issues with them and talk about them in organized fashions

and you go like a debate of the minds or a debating of thoughts and then you can talk in context. Because to me, what they're dealing with is the effects of like you heard a clip from here and you heard a clip from there and then we're like in this economy where you don't listen to someone's entire show.

You'll hear a part of it, then you'll respond to a part of it, then they'll respond to a part of it. And I think that's just like stupidity, just being bounced back and forth with each other. But if you've ever heard either of them talk in a long formatted way, they both have intelligent discussions and right.

When you get into like, I call that like, I call it girl talk, man. Well, I heard what they said about this and I heard of what they said about that, and I know how the city feels about you and just all that other stuff. Like, I think even that conversation is beneath both of them.

And if they got together, and I always talk about this, because I'll probably learn my most lessons walk in the yard in prison. And I'm talking about my most life adult lessons, just talking to men direct or talking to just people direct and getting to the point and getting to the facts of situations. You solve more stuff that way, just being direct with people.

And I think if you created those formats, that then they teach somebody who comes after you how to resolve issues, and then that becomes a populace, right? But we live in like this drama-filled world, and I think that they're both a victim of that, along with all of the other stuff that may be involved personally or all the other like BS politics of the space. Of that society, unless you're playing into that society. Like you said, you don't plan to that and I plan to that, right?

I don't plan to the drama and the passive aggressive things that people do or that they're saying without saying like, no. This is exactly how I feel. I don't hide how I feel. I'm not dowling back what I think. I think you put the mic in front of us for us to say how we feel. So I think Stephen A is extremely intelligent. I think he's one of the best when it comes to what we do when it come to sports, right? I believe I just believe that.

I believe bar none, you know what I'm saying? person that I put past even as like Dick Bitel for my preference of commentary. I like a person that more so build people up with their energy, right? So even when I first came into this realm, I was really trying to critique things and really give an honest feedback. It was never to go at any single person about anything. And that's why I try to stay away from people.

in the aspect of this journalism, because I think when you really connect yourself with people and you really start rubbing elbows with people, you have to say things a certain way, and you have to dodge certain statements and you have to dodge certain conversations because they're just not beneficial for where it is you're trying to go.

But I really believe that journalism will be honest again. You know, like they got the MAGA hat, make America great a gift. We got to make journalism honest. Sometimes people are hating on people because of money and they got money, right? People may say, well, you got money. Why are you hating? Man, there's billionaires that hate it on me. There's billionaires that hated on me.

And they got billions. It didn't matter that they got more money. It's that spark that you have sometime that people don't have. and they hate the fact that you have it. And that's just what I would say about that. But I wish both of these guys the best. I wish they could sit down and talk. But I definitely believe that there's some things going on behind the scene

that sometimes people pay to make sure that you don't in this thing called media, right? When me and Killefer started this show and we started, there was corporations that were paying people to mess up our views. They were people, they were pan people to make sure that we didn't pop up. So it's kind of interesting. Today is kind of interesting. That's the truth. You asked Jacob York.

He knows that's the truth, right? And it was brought to our attention. It's like, what do you do about that? If some of these bigger companies are paying that your stuff don't show up. I mean, they're actually paying sponsors and paying different people that make sure that you don't show up. And I know people be wish to talk, but I made it, I made up in my mind. If I'm going to talk, I'm going to tell a true. If I don't wish to talk sometime, I have to get my.

thoughts together. I'm not ready to talk. And I wish everybody around me could see the same things. Because right now, we're in a special time, but not everybody can see the time we're in. Not everybody can see the time we're in. I believe, and I wish our eyes were open. Sometimes me and you know, we have these conversations. So you know, and we're talking about. But we're in special times. No, you just made me think of something. And I just thought about, as you said that, I thought about the thing he just went through in Beverly Hills.

And they were shutting down his economic empowerment deal that he was a sort of pioneering meeting or whatever he was doing in Beverly Hills about that. And then I thought about when he first assigned, I think it was like for 450 million or whatever the max contract was or 330 or whatever it was. He talked about wanting to empower people economically. And maybe his comments back towards Stephen A in regards to you're trying to paint me out, trying to paint a narrative about me. It may be, hey, man, you may be messing up my reputation for things that I want to do outside the basketball court. And I don't know if that's true or false, but it's something that went through my mind as you were talking. And sometimes frustration spills out like that or just, like, that spills out.

But the point that I was wanting to make is that when you, like, even you, you bigged up Stephen A. You talked about how intelligent he was. I believe he's like super intelligent, right? The same thing with Jalen Brown. Everybody just tells us man's intelligence. And so when you're getting the worst of people who are super intelligent, we're obviously doing something wrong. Like the train is off the track somewhere. And so how at that point, if people follow intelligent people, how do you get the train back on the track

and then make those people become influential. You have intelligent discussion, but then you teach people that when things are off the track, this is how you get them on the track, but then these are things that you can do to get to a place of having reconciliation and building people up. Those are the things that I wish that you can pull

from both of those people, because I think you learn more from that. You learn from men, and I talk to you about this all the time. Just, you know, we get to a certain age, and it's black, white, anybody in America, that people don't know how to grow up past a certain point. Like we think about getting to certain points, but then how do you mature as a man with like just a ton of life decisions?

And I think like they both can say, hey, man, I wish I had this one back because Stephen A didn't work his whole career to get on ESPN and be spewing on people in a harmful way. And Jeline Brown didn't bust his ass all these years to play basketball. They didn't be doing that. All of that is distracting for nothing. Both of these guys want to do with their lives. I think when it comes, I think when it comes, of these issues, right? That we're just in a time where people believe

their best chance at success is being ignorant. Like, you have to do something over the top to be accepted as a black guy. I think that's just the time we're in, right? People are not trying to do smart stuff. And this is take Steve and they out of this, don't take this, and try to use. this against Stephen A. Use this against black guys, period. I think this is the time we're in.

If you're intellectual, if you're a person that think for yourself, if there's nobody governing your thoughts, if you don't have an handler, if you don't have a person they can call and shut you up right away, then there's certain opportunities you just don't get. And it's not about unruly. It's not about we just need to know it. We put you on the main stage. We have somebody that can control you. Jalen Brown is not one of those you can control. Mason Betha is not one of those.

Are you getting what I'm saying? So in that time, you're not, you understand that. And I understand that. So I understand there's certain things that I don't try to do because I understand my views are too important. They're too independent. They're not governed by this policy or this group. And it's not that I go somewhere and be disrespectful or I don't know how to talk in a way that that makes sense. It's just you're not going to get me on a place to go along with just with just wild behavior if that's not what I believe. If I believe it, I'll say it, but you can't pay me. me anything to say what I don't believe. And I think that's where we are.

We just have, as a people, we have decided that as long as we make money, it doesn't matter how we make the money. And I wasn't raised that way. The way I was raised as how you make the money is as important as how much money. The money making. You get what I'm saying? And this is how you get. with people cut corners, drug use, while living, broken integrity, just to be places.

And I think at the end, you can't live with yourself. And that's why the money don't end up being enough for a lot of black men, because when they recognize what they did to be where they are, it's not good. And I wish we could stop telling ourselves that selling us out is the only way we could be rich. Selling us out is the only way we can come up. Backstabbing, low-down thinking, and tearing each other down is the only way people think they could have success. They don't believe that they can actually be intellectual. they can actually bring something to the table that's not negative.

Like you ask people right now, they tell you ignorant cell. They tell you sex cell. But doing the right thing sells too when you do it the right way. So I'm looking forward to having that opportunity to do that. Big emphasis on doing things the right way because that's a lot of people have lost that. I do want to make just a few more comments just regarding. Stephen A and Jalen Brown's back and forth because I think it's also a respect thing for me. Like, I know you're saying I wish they could sit down and talk. If we remember, and this is

when I first remember the situation kind of getting to where it got, Stephen A did go on his show and was basically saying like, Jalen Brown is unmarketable. He's not likable. I-a-a-a-a-a-y-y-da-y-y-da-y-da. Saying all these things. So Jalen Brown got mad and he was like state your source. Even then, me personally, if someone's going to say all these things about me, I'm not really going to want to come on your show and have a sit down, talk about it and explain to you where I'm coming from, especially, yes, me.

Listen to what was just said. Yes. He's not marketable. Yes. A smart black man is not marketable. Right. But a hug is. But a drug dealer is.

Do you hear what you say? But a pimp it. But a gang member. is, right? So let's have the conversation. Okay. So Snoop's do marketable with gang talk, but being intelligent from Berkeley is not

in tell is it's not marketable. Not marketable. On the table. So a Jay-Z who says he sell dope and then he can convert over and everybody like, yes, but a guy who graduates Magna Cone that understands what he understands and is not bending on what he stands.

We don't support people that we don't raise people to the highest place in society because they're smart. Think of the last couple of superstars, little Dirk, gang member, right? Go through it, Pushiasty. Think of all of the people you can think of. These are the ones they, they represent they put the highest because they want to keep that ignorance before us i i hate to

have this state but i can't know this and let us not so a young lady that's doing the right thing she's not the one they promote to us they promote the one who's living crazy if mace want to do the right thing he's crazy if he wants to give his life to the inner city raising up young black men, raising up young girls. That's not to be promoted. But a niggas selling dope is, that's the person that get the shot.

We gotta stop doing that us. We gotta stop doing that does. If we don't have nothing to say about this person living crazy, we gotta stop putting down people who are, but actually doing the right thing. Think of this stuff we support, man. Think of this stuff. That's all I'm saying.

Now, I'm not on nobody pointing at nobody. I'm talking to us as a culture of people. Think of the people we put in front of us. I mean, to build onto your point, and I hit this home for stat and stat can tell me if I'm lying, even stat when I talk to you, I say, man, stat, I love how you represent yourself as a young lady. And I say, never get to the point where you feel like you got to sell sex or push something sexual to push your career.

And rather, I said it directly, indirectly, through an innuendo, which is basically saying, like, that's the type of imagery in being with journalism or just handling your business should be the thing. And being able to live with yourself. And so I'm with you on that. And I do agree that if you can market something that's crazy, out of control, and sort of like a degenerate, if you can market degenerate behavior, there has to be a bucket of young, intelligent black dudes that you can give props to this. Yeah. Man, you know, this is what you can aim to aspire to be, but then that things become, it becomes

influential to other people. And so there's like, it's a layer of conversation. I don't want to take it all the way there, but since we having a discussion, I do got to say, I do we might as well, we're here. We might as well, we here. I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is, right? Paul. So if you're watching this and you actually have talent,

like you actually have something to say, hit me up, follow me on Instagram. Let's see what we can come up. We can't complain about them not putting somebody out there or helping somebody, maybe I should help somebody. Maybe I can help you. Maybe you're doing something that you just need a little help with. Maybe I could be the person to help you

or lead you in the right direction to where you can find that help. Because I think that's what it boils down to. If this is what we continue to put in front of us and we are promoting, I'm just trying to go there. I'm going to go there. Since I want to do all of this stuff behind the scenes, I'm really going to go there. that. When it comes to people like, you see this guy, whatever he's doing to be in a in a gang,

and we're promoting that. It's no way we could be for for black people. I'm going to just go ahead and be exactly who I am. There's no way we should be promoting that. There's no way as black people we should be promoting that at all, at all, at all, at all. I'm going to stand on what I'm saying. It's time out for for people just saying, you know what, this is all. This is all. black people are and this is what's marketable. This is what's marketable. What we've said so far is in the black culture, this is what you can market to us. You can market low self-esteem to us.

You can market violence to us from us. You can just market selling each other out. We worship the people who sell each other out. We worship the people who sell out their own friends. sell out their partners. I don't come from that. I just can't do it. I never will.

And I don't, I don't think, I think society almost promotes the weakest person. That's what I really believe. I believe in a black culture, they always promote the weakest person. A lot of people don't understand that, be it in business, entertainment or whatever, once you get to a certain level,

beyond the masses, people are trying to control you, right? That goes back to that thing. You talk about an independent speaker. And I say society, I want to clarify, I believe, when it come to the black culture, they promote the weakest person. Yeah, so I'm talking about black culture too, right? And once you ascend outside of like the masses of the people, be it in sports with college football and professional football,

be it with entertainment or just be it in building a million dollar business, right? You built this thing. Once you step out of that realm, you step into another realm, that's another system of people who are literally trying to control you. And the people that you can control are the most ignorant people. And that's just what it is. If a person is high and drunk all day for the mass majority of the time, you can influence that person what to do if you just basically place fame out there,

you place some money out there, you give them a lifestyle, and that becomes that. and anybody would have imposed opinion, they're viewed as somebody who's disruptive and you can market them as that. And that's why, like I said, it's a full conversation with this stuff. And I don't know where you start, I don't know where you stop.

I don't know how it happens, but, you know, to be able to take action is to say, hey, if you come in contact with me, be it with Maze, be it, myself, Maurice, be it with this programming or be it a business that somebody has, like we can help you to at least be our support the thoughts that we're making. So just like Mace does what he does,

and I'm pretty sure if anybody follows me on social media, they're gonna see me comment under the work that he does with the church and sharing that information because it's the life I live. If you see me on social media, you're gonna see me do the work. It's either housing people or I'm in some sort of business that I'm assisting in helping people

and I'm actually supporting the life that somebody with Jalen Brown would talk about. But I totally get it because even with myself, I'm embarrassed about, I accept, but I'm embarrassed about, about some of the shit that I've done in the past. I'm either embarrassed sometimes, even when I cuss a little too much, I'm embarrassed because I don't want that really

to be what's displayed or exemplify with me in general. So I totally get it, I totally understand, and I do understand now when I talk about all of my own personal social equity from playing football and the people who've known me, I've learned how to leverage that in a positive way, and the people who knew all of what I went through, they respect me, but you'll never get that same light nationally on it, that I had when I was playing football and just entertaining people,

but the actual work that I'm doing right now is a lot more impactful, right? And I don't get caught up into it to who knows or who doesn't know when eating a pat on my back or anything like that. But I can say for myself, I do clearly get what you're talking about, and I actually wish more people who were younger, who end up having larger platforms for whatever reason bought into this.

And this kind of leads into that, you know, as we sit here, and this is no shot to them, but it's just the thought goes to my head. We're sitting here watching AB destroy himself on live stream, but it becomes entertaining. So we promote it, we share it, and we love to see it. It's promoting. He can find sponsors for his demise. He can find sponsors for his demise.

I love AB, and I don't mean this, you know, I'm not going to be apologetic. He can find, why can he find sponsors to promote that side of him? But we can't give them this same money. to do something the right way. This is what I'm echoing. So I'm even holding the people accountable that's behind the scenes, right? It's one person that says he doesn't believe in racism,

but he still supports it. So I'm just speaking to all of that. And I don't care where it puts me. I think that's where you have to get in life to really make a difference. When I tell the truth, I understand the truth is disruptive. No, I'll say this, man.

This is like, even hearing you talk, like, so I was at the Pentagon earlier yesterday, like the actual Pentagon. And I'm walking through the hallways. And these people at the Pentagon are literally saying, yo, what's up, Mo? And I don't know. And for nobody who don't know, nobody calls me Moe outside of the show. Mo has been my moniker since I basically joined the show.

And y'all called me Mo. So anybody who I know calls me Mo, I know that they know me from the show, right? And so these people are fans of the show. And so I'm walking through the Pentagon and taking pictures with people. And this is the world's defense center, right? Out of everything.

But having these conversations, this is the stuff that I talk about that creates the bandwidth where you can be silly, we can joke, and we can talk about memories, and we can talk about all the buffoonery and the foolishness, and then we can go ahead and talk to Stata, tell us what we owe about, and we can tell her stuff that she should know

and we laugh and joke about it. But I think that there's also space, man, I have these discussions, and I don't think that it's odd, right? And I think that sort of what you're talking about is that we got to a space where they say you can only fit in this box and have a voice, you know what I'm saying? And I think that's what we're talking about, where other cultures, other people, they have the bandwidth to be as silly as they want. They can be, hey, man, and I hate to use this word, but it's the only thing that came to my mind. Like I can party and hang out like I'm in a frat and tailgate and live it up, but I also can be super intelligent. And I think that we have just been boxed into a box,

but it takes to have these discussions to say, hey, man, I can be all of these things that is just me. And I've become comfortable really watching you and Cam just like I've seen you all. And obviously you all come from a generation. We're from the same generation, I'm a little bit younger. But seeing you all grow up is like, okay, this is how you grow up. So a lot of times I'm speaking for myself. I'm speaking for other people, but I think as much as this is a sport show,

I think that there's a lot of people who just are influenced by what happens on this show and who like it and I think can learn and grow from it. How you allow yourself to be packaged, Paul's, how you allow yourself to be marketed becomes the way people see you. Right? So that's all I'm really taking the time to express. We no longer could just do,

not no longer as if we was doing it before but it's no longer cool to not say anything about that because I think when you get money you get to decide what you really show people and I'm proud to say that as I made a lot of money it only gave me the opportunity to be who I really am so at the point of me making millions of dollars I wanted to go with God at this point making even more millions of dollars I want to do the same thing help people so that that is the truest sense of what's in my heart so for anybody that's ever questioning where I am or where I stand let that be your evidence right there when a man gets all of the money he needs he's gonna show you who he really is

and that's what I've chosen to do it's more people would do the same you've done the same well because I know the comment we have behind scene. It's about building, building legacy. It's about helping people. And one time you was asking me about helping people get all drugs. You know, we're up here that it is what it is. There's people doing phenomenal things in all over this world. So if you, any of these, sentiments, you echo in your heart and you're not one of those people that only want to pay black people to comb or pay black people. You need your money to just make fools of donations.

Start empowering intelligent people with integrity, not just talented people, integral people, I think is what we're talking about. And that's not towards Stephen 8 or Jalen Brown. But I'm saying Jalen Brown comes across as one of those people that are different than everybody else. everybody else he's not gang banging he doesn't hit the three and start doing gang handshakes you get what i'm saying like allow us to have somebody allow us to have somebody that's intelligent let that

thing for generate what's your thoughts start start you're more younger i kind of lost my train of thought this is a great conversation i just wanted to bring it back full circle before that got lost in translation. I was not saying Jalen Brown was unmarketingable. I was just saying what Stephen A said, which is why I feel like he might be frustrated because he did take the time to go speak on his show and kind of squash that. And then it kind of coming back and saying he's unmarketable, I'm sure he's annoyed. But also to add to you guys' conversation before we wrap just real quick. I also think that there are also great representations in the black community. I also don't want to say it's all it has to be this and it has to be these companies. And like I think we've seen also

some great people in their positions. That could be a Michael B. Jordan. That could be a Ryan Kugler. That could be a Lewis Hamilton. And everybody does well in their own respective, right? So don't feel like, oh man, we're just behind. Like there's a lot of growth. There's a lot of growth and it's exciting to see.

And I love our people. So I love to see us do more. I'm just gonna leave it on that note. That's what I will say. But all around, great conversation, a lot of good points. Curious to see what the audience thinks about this discussion. But that is all the time that we have for today.

Mason, I know you have another point before our rap. Sounds like it. And again, if there's any way I can help, let me know. You know, my handle is at Mason, Betha. And we're definitely this summer going to be giving people opportunity to present their podcasts, their shows, and things of that nature. At least I will be doing that. But I'm only looking for good stuff.

I'm only looking for stuff that. that can counter some of this stuff that's out there. We don't need no more coons. We don't need no more people making shows just to tear down other people. We need people that could be expressive, that could be intelligent, that could hold a conversation and hold the audience while still having something to say. Other than tearing people down gossip, tea, and all of that kind of stuff. My name is Mason Betha.

and I stand by what I say. He approves this message. Maurice, thanks for joining us. Always a pleasure to have you on the show. Always. Always. Hey, thank y'all for watching. And as always, it is what it is.