IT IS WHAT IT IS - FAME VS. FORTUNE AND DO PEOPLE EVEN CARE ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE ANYMORE?!

Episode Date: April 29, 2026

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Welcome back to Who is What It Is. I'm Charger Wilson, aka Stat Baby, along with your host, Mace and Cam, and y'all, we got a special guest today back again in the studio in person, Maurice. Welcome to the show. More was good.

Killer, what's going on, man? It was good, Joe. How are y'all doing? Doing good, man. All is well, phenomenal. But I said before the show, everybody got on all black. Yeah.

It's a funeral for somebody. You know what I will say, though? I just seem to... You know what I will say at this? Is that I'm not... Mesa's not from Jacksonville anymore. He's just Harlem. We're taking the Jacksonville out.

He's out. No more Jacksonville. Sorry, everybody down there, whatever happened to him in Harlem. He's Harlem. Because one thing a Harlem, nigger, going to do, is we going to promote. You got that shirt for them palm trees.

more. We got to make sure we get down there the same church, man. And she was going on. Congratulations, too, about on everything you got going on down there. I spoke to me in D.C. said he went down there was really good. I'm going to make my way down there as well, man. So, congratulations on that. Hey, look, sister, you know, I was about to give him his props. I've been throwing him up under the bus. I just said he gave him to all the trees.

Hey, so he put, hey, so he put, so he's going to promote. I'm promoting, right? man, this is what we do. Hey, but I will say this. He did it in his style. Pulled up in the Ferrari. Jumped out. Yeah. I'm from Harlem.

You jumped out, my man, my nigga. Hey, pulled up in the Ferrari, jumped out all of that. Gave me colors to choose from. So I will say, thank you. It was with love. And for the fans,

you know, we set, we had lunchmore. five hours, chopping it up, building, sharing stories. So thank you for the, thank you for the merch.

He gave me my, my, my different color ways, and we went to the store, and he put some more stuff on order for me. So thank you, brother.

And I'll give your props when it's time to get your props. Yes. See this, that? No, that's lit. We just had to connect. That's all,

yeah. It's just the timing, you know, just certain things. It just happens. But, you know, okay. I see.

All right. So let's get into this game five. Nix beat the Hawks, 126 to 97. So the winner of Game 5 historically wins the series, approximately 82% of the time. So, Maurice, what was your initial reaction to this Knicks win? So I don't know. I've been around New Yorkers a lot,

and I don't know if I've stole this from Mace or Cam, right? So when I seen the Knicks win, I thought of two people, I thought it's sin, and then I thought of Cam saying, let's not get ahead of ourselves to steal the Knicks, right? So I said, we didn't see this story before, but they usually get to, oh, the last two years, they've gotten erased in the semifinals by the Pacers and then up by the conference finals. And so I won't get excited. And I know Sam, my man, he's probably watching this.

He's going to send me a text message or say, Mo, I see you talking crazy, right? But I get excited when the Knicks push past, whoever, who they played, the winner of, is it Boston, Philly? Yeah. Yeah. So I'll get excited when they go a little further. and they finally make the finals. So I was excited that they move forward because I know CIN is going to be in the good move,

but I'll be happy when they, you know, move past the Eastern Conference Finals and then get to the finals. I'm not going to lie. I'm this much impressed, just this much, you know, that they were actually, not just they won. It was pause. It was a blowout, you know.

And it just seemed like they jumped out again. The Knicks just jumped out from the beginning, letting them know that we're serious about what we came to do here. And I like the way Jalen Brunson switched it up. Some games he tried to get assist. But this game has seemed like they've been playing with your name. Jalen Brunson, all of a sudden they're acting like you and McCullum is on the same level. And sometimes you got to make distance.

So people know we're not the same. We're not the same. They're lying to you. So we're back on the Trinidadian train. You know, we're back on, you know, the boy showed that he was from the East Coast. Don't play with him. I like the way that they was playing. I hope that they play this way for the next two games.

But I got to keep that same sentiment. Two things can be right at the same time. With everything I'm saying, that's good for the Knicks, CAP USA. Cut us some slack, you know. This is the Knicks now. This is the Knicks. If there was something that could go wrong, this would be the team it could go wrong for them. I think they could win the next game or so.

I think the next can win the next game and get out of there. I think the earlier they win it, the better. And I'm just sad for Atlanta because Atlanta would have came out with so many people. You know, they already had bootsy there, T.I. If it kept going, you'd have saw a little baby, young thug would have been there. it would have been like Coachella. It would have been like rolling loud. Not Coachella, rolling loud.

Maybe not that one. Yeah, Magic City. It would have been all of that by game two or the second round. So we're not going to get that. I don't really have too much to say. I'm not going to give the next credit for doing what they're supposed to do. The reason why everybody's making.

the big deal is because they went down to 1. They should have never went down, period. Pause. They're supposed to be won in this series. We came into this season and the Knicks are going to the final. Anything less than going to the finals is not impressingly. You fired Tom Timito

for missing the finals by one game, and then after that you get Mike Brown. So essentially, Mike Brown is there to win five games to get you the championship and win the four games in the championship. Then, because the Lanner looks good, which they did look good a couple games.

C.J. McCullough looked really well. We're saying, uh-oh, what's going on? I'm a boy, I see my nigger Stephen A. Smith going to rent. Leon Rose, you under fire. Worldwide West, you too. I know you, my man, you're under fire. Jalen Brunson, you're turning the ball over. What are y'all doing?

Nick fans get emotional so it makes you react emotionally because they're emotional. And they're all over the place. Shout to Kendrick Persons. Hendrick Perkins said to my nigga, big perk. He said that every day, what's wrong with your Nick fans? Y'all are an emotional roller coaster in the first round. It's the first round, my nigga. And the Knicks have you on an emotional roller coaster per usual.

So congratulations on the win. But you should be beating Atlanta. You should have been the number one seat in the east, which, you know, we're here now. We're seeing the number one seat actually down three games to one against Orlando. but the Knicks aren't doing anything less than what they should be doing. You are one game away from the championship last year. You lost to Indiana. Tyrese Halliburton's not here.

Jason Tatum been back for two months, even though he's looking good. If it is two months, you know, we'll worry about Boston next round if you're a Nick fan. But I'm not going to put a bunch of stock into the winning last night. So what? Whip, dude. Congratulations. Yeah. What you're saying about that stat.

Whoopty-do is crazy. Because it's like, dang, y'all don't want to be like, okay, congrass to the Knicks. Like, this was a good win for y'all. Y'all walked down to CJ McCollum. Like, you had other players, Dyson Daniels, who usually doesn't shoot very well, actually having to force a shot. Like, they did, you know. They look more aggressive.

So we was watching the game, and we did say this, a good indicator for the Knicks. And I'm a cat hater. Anytime he shoots a three, I hate when he shoots a three. I just always believe that the difference maker when you have a big man is him imposing his will in the paint and him being the difference maker down there. And I don't know what play it was. I was, my brother were talking about it.

And literally, I was like, yo, the fact that he's taking the ball to the rim and the fact that there's aggressive, I think that that's what gets to Knicks over the hump. Just my opinion. Yeah. No, I agreefully there. And then for this next part, I kind of want to get a little bit of a prediction for me all because a Knicks reporter had said Josh Hart, who appeared to be bothered by a back injury, has not returned to the bench, but this one is over.

Nick's going to Atlanta with the opportunity to end this series. So just kind of jumping ahead, Maurice, do you think that they could win this next one if potentially Josh Hart is absent? Yeah, I just think you have momentum. I just think that there's indicators, even when you put the stat up there of saying that whoever wins get was Gang 5, that 82%. Yeah, 82%. I think when you start a series and you start off in the beginning, you think that, hey,

man, I'm about to, you know, go out here and win four games and make it happen. But, you know, once you get down and you realize that the task that you have at hand is a lot and you have to continue out through the playoffs, I just think that a lot of teams don't have it. But in short answer, yes, I think they can win. Yeah, I think they totally can when you think about what Josh Hart brings to the table. If you think about the 30 minutes that he plays and what he actually accomplished on the floor, which was nine points. I definitely believe they could get that nine points. and that defense between, let's see who they got. They got Clark Sting.

Clark Sting could give them that nine points. And I truly believe between him and McBride and Alvacado. Is it Alvarado? Alvarado. Alvarado. They can get that defense together. And shout out the avocado. He's been playing really good.

Nicknames? Is that a good one or a bat? Like, all these nicknames? Like, I don't know. I thought they would really be pause, eating them up. But, you know, that's why we gave him the name avocado. We said that's not going to work against James Harding and people like that. But we're waiting to see.

But right now I stand corrected. We'll see, we'll see avocado in the next round. Yeah, he's a little slick. Yeah. He's doing his thing, pause, you know? Yeah. Cam. Eating them up is crazy.

Anyway, like I was saying You eat a avocado, right? You said, you said I thought they'd be eating them up. It's crazy. But the next, are the next to me going to win this series? Yes. Are they going to win the next game? No, it's the next.

They're going to make it into extra shit that they don't have to be. They should go in there and win this game, but they're not going to go in there and win this game. Because it's the next. They'll win when they go back to the garden. They're not going to go into Atlanta. and beat Atlanta, even though they should. They won by 20 points.

Last game, which yesterday, and then he won by a decent amount, I can't remember, but there was a great, a good margin the game before that. But they won't do it. Not going to do it. It's the next. They're not going to do it, you know. It's just not.

You got to think about this, Atlanta should not be one and two games. Atlanta don't even got a Senate. Comming this garden called Anthony Towns, basically this whole series. The niggas six, seven. Being generous giving him six, seven. The ball should be in the box with car and details going to work all the time.

Now, I'm not opposed when they spread the flow out, and he's open for three. Like most of the hate seeing him shoot three. But I'm not mad at that, the day of every year with big men shooting. But in this particular series, I am mad at that. The person guarding you is six, seven, and he's not even a real power forward. that's arguable might be a small for it I don't know what they label them as

but it's comminga this thing nigga who was on the best with Golden State my nigga so what are we doing here yeah no when my my my thoughts ago with that is that it seems like when the Knicks

had lost in 24 and 25 it always feels like Jalen Brunton runs out of gas no matter how many points he scores if you go back and look at how they lost and I'm pretty sure you could pick this stuff up on YouTube it just looks like Like, if he scores 35, 40, it always looked like he just like the last man out there fighting for the team and nobody gives him production.

And I just always felt like if Carl Anthony Towns had a presence in the post and he just wasn't shooting these low percentage shots, which is threes. In my opinion, that should be shot by guards or dudes who do that more. I just always felt like that that was a difference. And when Jalen Brunson does all of this in, you know, the first round, second round, by the time you get to the third round, I just always look like like, man, Jailen Brunton is like physically tired. And so that's always my opinion on a Knicks in general, that you need so much, you struggle, even when you have that much production on him, you still struggle because everybody else has fallen off doing other things. Well, you're not going to get tired right now is the first round. You know, when you're looking at it, you know, last year they made the conference finals, the year before that, the semi-conference finals. Yeah.

And Tom Tipido, I will say this, Tom Tibado was running them starters into the ground. You know, I will give Mike Brown for a little bit more credit for having a better rotation and using more players. But even that's subject to be argued when the game you losing. When you got Ben Stiller on Twitter questioning Mike Brown's coaching, it's egregious, Ben Stiller's like, what's up with the line of? Ben Stiller? Ben Stiller's tweeting Mike Brown, like, what you're doing? That's when you know it's crazy.

and everybody's cool because the last two games have been cool, but let's see what they do because it's a close-out game next game. They should win them, but do I think they will? No. Okay, fair points. We'll see what happens. Moving on to the Sixers. The Sixers season is not over as they beat the Celtics.

113 to 97. So, Maurice, what do you think of MB's return over the course of these past two games? I think it was phenomenal. My man obviously started slow, but he's doing. doing what a big man should do. He's dominating. He's enforcing his presence. And obviously, he helps to balance the flow out and relieve pressure off of Tyrese Maxi. Pause. But he showed you what he's made of. He showed you why he was an MVP of the league and showed you, like, he just showed you this, he showed you last night why he's a big man

in a big force and middle. Pause. I like the win, but I'm really praying that the sixes don't become the new Knicks, man. The process has been over. They got Edgecombe there. Let's see if Edgecombe could be the spark that they really need to turn this franchise around. But right now, they got every personnel that they should have to make this like a championship team or Eastern Conference Championship team. But the verdict is still out.

So I've been let down by the Sixers so much I'm not ready to celebrate. I'm starting to feel for the Sixers like Camphills about the Knicks. You look at this team, even without, you know, everybody else that they're missing probably one player, which is, I didn't know they had drumming, but this is a good team on paper. You got Paul George, you got Joelle Embed, you got Tyrese Maxie. These are all players that are capable to get 20 plus points. So they're a real formidable opponent. I just don't trust them just yet.

I'm not sure. I think it was a good win. I thought Joe Ambide looked really good, but I'm not sure if I like it moving forward. And I don't think that they'll beat the Celtics. I think it was a great win to show them beat. Joel and B can still be dominant. You know, they use three different centers, Boston, I'm talking about to try and guard Joel and B

and nobody could do nothing with them. But at the same time, you're running the offense through Joel and B, and you have players who are flourishing like Edgecom just sitting there and not being in motion because everything's being ran through and B. That game, if they won previous to this game, because they have another one in this series, the ball was moving around. It was motion.

Tyrese Max and Edgecombe had got some, chemistry together. Now, I'm not saying don't play Joe L&B. That'd be stupid not to play him because you have one of, you know, a league MVP. And when we know when he's healthy, he's a problem. We all know that. But at the same time,

it's stagnating other players when you run everything through him and you had a smooth offense. Now, you're dealing with Jason Tatum and you're dealing with Jalen Brown and you're dealing with Derek White. Derek White had an off night.

Purchison. Purchison, if I'm saying the name for White Little White Boy, other night he had 32 off the bench. I think that Joe Missoula come up with a better game playing next game to try and offset with Joel and B. did this game. But I'm not sure how that chemistry works with everybody. With Joe Al-Lan B back, because I've seen a bunch of players just staying around when he got the ball in it.

He put on a showcase last night. Absolutely. But is that going to work moving forward? Okay. Now on to the Spurs. So the Spurs beat the Blazers 1.14 to 95, eliminating them from the playoffs. How do you guys just feel about the Spurs chemistry, what we've seen from them? And did you ever think the Blazers had a chance?

Well, I thought the Blazers had, I don't want to say a chance, but when I had seen, what is the Israeli guy name? I keep on messing his name up. Trist will probably kill me if she heard this. Denny. Denny, that's the easy way to say it. I thought that they had a chance when I seen him play. I thought that he was going to be like a playoff surprise. but, you know, like they say, you know,

Guy had a spark and a flash and a pan, but in order to be great, you have to do things consistently at a high level. But I told you this early on, excuse me, before we started, I was on the bandwagon of the Spurs, one because of Steph Castle, but then two, I just always look at teams

and sometimes you have that element of like, it's just our time. And I think that with the Wimby right now, with Steph Castle and the crew that they have assembled, I think that they'll end up beating O.K.C., and I think they'll raise the trophy at the end of the year. So I'm a Spurs fan. Shout out to my man, Steph Castle, and crew in Wimby, but I think that the Spurs are the team to beat this year, to raise the trophy at the end.

Well, you're a Spurs fan now? Listen to me. Oh, my goodness. I thought we were, I'm feeling godly right now. Okay, that's what I'm about to say. You can't be lying with that on. to me. I wasn't a part of any, look, I wasn't a part of any brand that won a championship this year, so I got to get the right seat on the bus this year.

Right seat on the bus. Look, basketball season ain't over. I got to choose, you know how you go to the horse race. You got to choose your horse now, man. So, well, that's pause, right? Yeah, that's crazy. So you choose based off of players then? Not necessarily the team.

I choose off of, I ain't had no win. I need me a win. I need a win this year. It just makes the wrong rules now. I can't say anything because I'm so, I do the same thing. Statt just jumping. All of a sudden she was Golden State in the middle of the season. She went all the way from Miami, flew all the way across the country.

And then she was in Colorado State. Yeah, it is what it is, literally. It is what it is. Literally. I think when it comes to San Antonio, these guys are playing phenomenal, right? I'm not sure if it was right before the playoffs. I mean, right after the playoffs where I saw it, and I said, you know what, they could potentially win it all because they're the team that could beat OKC out of all of the teams that were trying.

I think anybody else runs up again. Okay, see, they're just going home because they don't have enough wing play, right? So when you got Vassel, you got Castle, you got Harper, you got all of these people, you got Fox. It becomes real dangerous when you got Wembe, especially with all of these kind of athletic guards because you could reach and run. You can change shots and then Wembe is there, you know? So it's like you got a, you got a lot.

a safety net back there. You got somebody 7-4, and when you're an athletic guard and you know the game, that's like a dream come true because, you know, it just makes everything easier. And I'm looking at this team that they have. This team is going to be even more of a problem. If they get into a series where they have to bring players off the bench, they got guys like, you know, what's the guy used to play for Golden State? Harrison Barnes. So they got even people there with championship history. Experience vet.

That could tell you, you know, this is go to sleep at 7 o'clock. And, you know, all of the little nuances that makes up for a championship team. So I really like this win. I'm happy they got this over early. I'm happy I don't have to hear from Trist anymore. We don't have to hear no more about Denny. And Denny was a minus 22. That means when he got against real black guys.

guys. Trish, he was a minus 22. But I look forward to him getting busy next year, you know. Y'all will be back when Debo leave, you know. But right now, Victor is there. And you had to go home. Killer, it's all you. Mo, there's no more seats on the bus and makes you worry about Houston and the Lakers.

Don't worry. Don't give us no praise, please. You are both. Both of yours. No seats on the bus. It makes you just worry about Houston and you worry about the Lakers. That's what you guys do.

I'll deal with Trista first. Trista, I don't know. This is the shit I was trying to tell you when you was in studio. Hyping shit up. I tried to explain this to you. I tried to tell you, now you don't want to answer my text messages.

You sleep. You don't want to return my calls. You sleep all of a sudden. That's all good. I know you're not sleep because I've been texting you since last night when the game ended. Maybe you went to sleep at halftime. Or maybe you went to sleep when we was up 26 points or something. I don't know when you went to sleep, but it's been hours and you haven't texted me back.

Secondly, to my homeboy, Damien Lilly, I spoke to you too. You told me it's going to be a good series. Now, I can't. I'm telling me he's going to be a good series. No, it wasn't. I told you it wasn't going to be a good series. I said, what are you talking about? He said, nah, you're underestimated.

He said, how many games you think we're going to win? I said, maybe one. And the reason y'all won no one game is because Wimby got hurt. And then we beat y'all without Wimby. And then on top of that, the game we lost. We only lost by three weeks two and one and get you on a regular season. Dave, you get better. That's what you do.

You get better and you worry about what's going to happen next year. I tried to tell y'all that, Trista and Damien Lillick. So, y'all have a good morning. and focus on next year. They're up to the game. You know, we was on top. The one thing that I worry about the Spurs is this, is transition defense.

They were up 28 points, 26 points, something like that. And what Portland did that was good, even on the May basket, they were running it back and get an easy layups, maybe five seconds into the shot clock. So they would score quickly, and that's the one thing the Spurs have to work on this transition defense.

They let them come within nine points in the fourth quarter instead of putting them away. And that's what I do worry about. But Mace did make some great points. We all talk about Wendy, right? And we're not talking about Devin Vesel, somebody who'd been there for five years. We're not talking about the rain and six men the year with Kelton Johnson, who's been there to 2019. And then you bring in the rookie of the year last year when we talk about Stefan Castle.

Then you talk about the coaching. We talk about son of a Mitch, Mitch Johnson, who's coming under tutelage, even though he may seem like he's older and he can't get around and so forth, because we see Greg Popovich now, and I wish him the best with his health and everything. But that doesn't mean it's basketball IQ hasn't been going anywhere. It's the same thing, right? And I'm not saying Mitch is in the same position as Eric Spolstra. But Eric Spolstra, you got the ultimate tour guide upstairs when it comes to basketball.

and won the championships in Pat Rowley. You know, Pat Rowley, to me, I think Spostra is a great coach now, but I believe he was really the first few years, the nigger, you know them dolls, you put over your hand and you be like this. That's all that. Sporster was in the beginning for Pat Riley. He was one of them niggas. And he developed to be a great coach,

but you better do what Pat Raleigh says. And I think that you have a great basketball mind when you have Greg Popovich around. And I just think that the Spurs overall have a great team. The most experienced player on the court last night. And in the series is Deerrin Fox. Not outside of Matt, you know, we talked about Barnes, not Matt Barnes part of me.

Harrison Barnes. Harrison Barnes. He has a lot of experience, but he's not getting a lot of minutes. We got Deerrin Fox. We see when he did in his fourth quarter. They needed Sacramento Kings, Deerrin, Fox and that's what they got. He took over in the fourth quarter. You think about

this, Wemby didn't even have 20 points but he had six blocks. He was a fact that deflecting shots and so on and so forth. So we always talked about the airman. We always talk about Wemby but you have a rookie year and stuff on kids. You have the rain a six man in a year and you have a

celebrity guy. I didn't even talk about Diller Harper. Did one of the game in this series? He had 27 points which propelled the spells to win in Portland. This team all around is really good. And I don't want to jump the gun. But if you do see a showdown between OKC and the Spurs, Wendy wants that battle more than anything else.

And it's not just because of SGA. Of course, he should win against SGA. But a lot of people don't know. Him and Chet went at it. And, you know, the Olympics, not the Major Olympics, the Team Olympics. I don't know when it's called, but internationals will say for the sake of the conversation

because I don't know the right title for it. And Chet won, and Wembe was crying. And Wembe been mad ever since. I don't know if you guys see when Wembe plays against Chet this season, but he's just being extra aggressive. Chet miss is a free throw. He's clapping extra hard. He's bullying him there.

He has a problem with Chet, and he wants revenge for that international loss that he had. So we see this show there. Of course, SGA is the main focus, but we're talking about two people that's seven feet to have a little more talent than the average seven footer. And I believe Wendy has that chip on the shoulder because of that international player a few years ago.

I just got history on it. Yeah. So I just got to ask because when he says Wembe was crying, you made a voice. Is that like an empathetic awe or like a awe? Because we like any clarity on, you know, like when an athlete cries, when is it okay? When is it not okay?

No, it's two things. No, he was giving a good take, right? I was like, okay, and he was educating me. I didn't realize that those two had a history of that. And I was trying to figure out what game he was talking about. But when he said that they were crying and this would be like their moment or this is like his revenge game or his get back game when he's trying to get even. It makes me more interested in seeing hopefully they go and play each other so you can pay attention to that matchup. That's where I came from.

Okay. I was just asking because, you know, certain players cry during certain times. And sometimes the reaction is different versus others. So I'm just asking. That's what I was like, what are your thought? No, it wasn't an empathetic kid. See, for me, like, for instance, right? Like, for instance, certain players cried, like, I remember me and Beth was up here.

You know, I don't want to pop on anybody's sorrow. But, you know, we see Joe L.N.B. crying. You know what I'm saying? After he lost to the Raptors. And the Raptors under won the championship this year. We used to play ball. We used to cry sometimes. We lost it's actually footage of mace winding and me.

When I didn't pass on a ball, we could actually see what it's here. It happens. You try, man. You cry. But I think that what Wemby is, see, when you play against, to me, my personal opinion, I can't speak because I'm American. But because we're considered the number one league, not even considered it's the number one league in the world. I think Australia

is probably a close second when I watched International League's playing. You know, that's where a lot of, that's where LeVar Ball said lamello ball to play professionally. He sent him to Australia and that's where he got a lot of his skills playing against grown men because that league over there in Australia is

really, really good. But I think when you play against America, you want to beat America bad when you're from another country because we're supposed to be the Krem Della Cremma basketball. Nobody's better than us. You know, when we were losing the Olympics, we went and got the best players in the world,

Charles Barkley, Michael Jordan, you know, the rest of the team, Magic Johnson. We went and got the best thing. Like, oh, y'all just beat in our college team. What if we went and got the NBA team? And when you beat America, it's a big deal. And when you lose to them by that sort of, that little of a margin, it frustrates you.

So I think Wendy is still carrying that chip on the shoulder. Is it international play? No, but I think it's you, nigger, Chet, you. Yeah, but you got to think, right? You got to think about this. Chet was supposed to be kind of where SGA is. Ted was, you know, since, I've been watching Chet since ninth of Teng Gray. He would go to the Royal Camp, he'd go to all these camps.

He shook Steph Curry up, dunking on stuff, Curry, and Tung Gray, etc. Chet was a big deal. What happened is he came in to the league. He killed his son. I went to Summer League. I think he only played one game, but then he ended up getting hurt. So then what happened is you have to ascend ascending SGA. And now you become a role player when you were supposed to be the person on that team. You was supposed to be the man. And we just can't deny what SGA is doing. And now we're saying SGA's the man when Chet was

supposed to be the man. But think about this. When you have somebody who's supposed to build your organization around talking about Chet Honger. them and now you'd be like, okay, you can actually be a second and third option. That's a great team as well. Okay. You got something else. No, I mean, he was kind of like when he was describing with Chet, we were talking about earlier at lunch about just people in pursuit of greatness outside of money, outside of like when I'm hearing him talk about Chet and Wimby going at each other, what I heard is that

people just want to be great. Forget the money, forget everything else. Yeah. Like I'm just attempting to be great at something. Like that's what I heard. he was just, to me, as he was saying, I was just processing that. Yeah, I remember when you was better than me.

Yeah, I'm just... That's all that is. Yes, correct. I remember when you was better than me, and I can't wait. Yeah. Yeah. Keep that same energy you had summer 19. Yes.

The whole conversation all week outside of this, there's been a conversation about people, people doing stuff for money versus people just wanting to be great at something. Even earlier, my brother, how to ask some of your hit records, what was it? And it was just not, I'm not doing this for money. I'm doing it just because I think I'm better than you. So this was like what Cam was saying was fitting into the line of conversation that we had earlier.

Yeah, and we see it. Like, like we talked about last episode, the fighters versus the players, like people who really want this versus people who are cruising by. You can always tell the difference. But Wembe is a clear indication of somebody who wants to be more than great. And that's exciting to watch and fun to see. And hopefully, you know. But, you know, I wasn't there for, I wasn't there for Mason Mose conversation.

That's an interesting conversation, right? Because it's about what you want. And now you can have, you can be the greatest with the most money. But you can be the greatest and the brokest. What do you really want? Do you want, like, you know, Steve Stout just had this take. And him and Steve Stout and Stephen A. Smith right now are going back and forth. And Steve Stout, right now, you know,

Yeah, these two, it's interesting to watch, actually, you know, because these are two, you know. So Steve Stout is saying that fame has gone past talent. And I'm ever Mace how to take about that. And he's saying talent has become okay with it. And basically saying if you're famous, people don't care about what your talent is anymore. And I think this, right? Because we're people that have. Yeah, right.

It's very interesting conversation on them. And I think the older you get, right, we're people who had to get famous because of our talent. Yeah. And now you have people who just talented and not, pardon me, they're just famous that doesn't necessarily have to give talent. But what's the focus, right? Is the focus to have financial freedom or to get rich

or is the focus to say, man, I'm talented. could you just donate something? I don't know. I don't know. That's what I was, that's why I was asking. I wasn't there for your conversation because you guys are both doing great financially,

but would you figure out, see, me personally, I'm just going to be honest with you. If I see which way the world is going in, and I'm not going to see, and cry and be like niggas can't fuck with me man

you know you stand y'all man ass niggas can't fuck with me man but then you sit there and be like whatever I'm rich you still

the nicest nigga with a fire escape outside your house you know what's the where's that line at and I'm just asking because I wasn't there for your conversation. Y'all are well off so you can have that conversation where you're like, yeah, these tithing these niggas ain't talented.

These niggas ain't doing none. But on the other aspect of it, you're sitting there saying, whatever, you can be talented all you want, nigger. I'm up here killing them. I see the reason I bring this up as well, right? And stat probably knows this better than me. But I'm just, you know, I'm just being honest with you. I started it, right?

I learned about a month ago, a little less of a month ago, and I don't know if you guys are familiar with this Mace mom talking to, you could go on TikTok live and stream and get money. So a friend of mine, they were telling me, yo, I said, what you've been doing lately? She's like, none just on TikTok. I'm like, how are you surviving? She's like, TikTok.

I said, what do you do? So I just go live and battle people. So I said, let me see the battle. You know, Mace, the battle is, I'm dead serious. I'm not joking. I'm dead serious. This is not even a joke. The battle is this.

What's up, y'all? Give me money. And now, it's a split screen. The person on this side and the person on his side, and that's a time limit. And you just sitting there, you're not doing nothing. They're not doing nothing. They're not rapping. They're not dancing.

They're not singing. People just donating money. Give them money. Give them money. Give them money. And they're paying their bills. Yeah. Do you know about the TikTok?

I don't know nothing about this. A fat check, too. Are you serious? People just vote. People just vote. Like, they don't have to do anything with they're voting from who they want. That's crazy. Yeah, they vote and you make money.

I've been doing it. I'm just, I'm just, tell y'all. I know, I know y'all my friend upon it. Whatever. Because I'm talented, too. But, because at the end of the day, you're not doing that. And then it's these tears is D1, D5.

And, you know, when you get on there, you sit there and say, oh, they give you a medal. And they be like, oh, he's killing. It's somebody who donated $200,000. Not donated, gave away $200,000. So they get a plaque on their screen of how much money they gave away. But if they gave away, you know, here, here's $700, his $800,000, his $900,000. If they gave way $200,000 over a year, how much did they make? Hold it.

But I'm trying, but so you're talking about just people like you just sitting on a split screen. Yeah, Mo, we're going on the screen.

No, like there's nothing else to it. There's literally nothing else to it. There's no catch. Fair. Doug, I didn't want to tell you all about it. I'm not late to the party.

Hey. We're going on the screen. You know, Phil. What you got to do is go on the screen and be like, this is a guy ain't better than you right here.

And don't do nothing. So the point you know. Yo, you make, like, like Sad just told me it's a real check. You'd be like,

yo, Snapchat 2. 70,000. Yeah. I just post, I post my plates. I post the window, 20 snaps.

I get paid every time people watch it. Your plates. Yeah. Yeah. This is a new market, man. I'll see.

But hold on. I'm not. Just real quick. Quick. I just want, because I do want you guys opinion on this. But the point being is this, right? Back to the original conversation. Now that you all see what I'm coming from. Do you want to be the most talented or do you want to be famous and get money? So like you just said, Moe and Mace, what's more important? You could be talented and fucked up.

Yeah, but so I won't let you distance yourself and act like you're not talented and you make money. I just said I'm both. Okay. I don't want to cut you off. No, I don't want to cut you off. But what I'm saying is this, I'm not stupid. You understand? I'm not going to see it hold a grudge about not being talented and niggins is making money.

That's what I just said before my whole statement. Okay. said, I'm not in a place where I don't see which way the world is going and sit there and complain. See, to me, when Steve Stout says, and that's my bro, he's 100% credible, right? Everything he says, but you got to realize Steve Stout has been rich for a long, long, long time. So when he sees talent going away and people being famous, he has a problem with it. I remember we was all on the Zoom call, right, about something for the mayor. I'm talking about it was me, Steve Stout, JZ, or Nause.

There's a bunch of us doing some shit for the mayor. And Steve Stout was asking me, he's like, Cam, you're not mad that it's not studios in New York anymore? The essence is outside, Steve. You have to realize that's cool for us. A young nigga know how to engineer themselves. They don't have to go in the studio. know how to do all that shit on their computer. I was impressed when Mace was doing

this shit. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's which way the world is going. So I know somebody from however may be like, yo, ain't no more studios. And I'm trying to explain it to Steve. And you know what's crazy, Mace? And Steve, I'm not disrespectful.

Jay-Z took what I said in this Zoom call and reworded it. And then Steve's like, okay, I see what you're coming from. Oh, you don't see? I'm coming from. No, what Kim is saying and so and so and so and so. But it's just the technology and just the fact of what's actually going on today. So sorry to interrupt you. I don't want to take away from me being talented.

I'll leave you with that last thing before I give both. I want both of you guys opinion on this conversation because like I said, I wasn't fair. You think about somebody like Cardi B who started off famous. and now she's a multi-platiner rapper. So maybe you could start off famous and then get talented. Because whether she writes her rhymes or not, you have to deliver, you have to sell it, you have to go on tour, et cetera.

You can be famous and they're reversing and a talent. Go ahead, Mo. Sorry. No, no, good point. I didn't hear just for context. I didn't hear Steve and A. or Steve's conversation, so I don't have context for that. but I say from the talent perspective, of course you want to get paid, but I think like having talent, I think it does something more for you personally, right?

Where there's character being developed, there's personality, there's confidence, there's dignity, there's, I've worked hard at something, and I've become, I've worked on a craft to become a somebody to essentially make myself whole. I know that sounds cheesy and corny, but, you know, you've developed as an entertainer and a rapper and a musician, just both of you, you and Mason and everything else. And I think like that lift may be slower and there's other things to figure out to get the money. But I think where, and I'm just speculating right here where somebody gets fame, you're like, you're not developed as a person.

I think that we end up criticizing all of like where the character isn't there and the fabric of like some things that child probably built through hip hop where you had to have talent. I think all of that stuff is lost. And I'm pretty sure like y'all kind of get where I'm going with the conversation. But I think that's the stuff that's lost aside for money. And of course, you know, I'm well off now and I have money, but my stuff took a little bit longer, but who I became in a process, developed myself to be something, has some value. And I think when we talk about younger people, that's the stuff that's lost, where let me go get famous for doing nothing, literally for doing nothing. And I don't know, I think that that systemically through society kind of fucks us all up.

I think it comes out of that when you start to get fame and riches before you sort of go through the rigors of. life. And what I was talking about with you, like, after knowing you for three years, I would never see you do something. Like, if you, like, you being able to go on that platform and make the money to do it is because you're talented and you have your dignity, right? And I think a lot of people end up doing things that they don't, that aren't dignified or stuff that they're proud of later, all for a dollar. I know, I know I'm going to a couple of other places, but hopefully I sparked the thought through conversation that, you know, we have. Yeah, I think when it comes to talent, well,

What I was speaking of is the type of greatness that produces money. I wasn't talking about talent and greatness that goes away from money. When we were speaking, I was speaking of, you know how they taught you if you're the best at what you're doing, you're going to make money. So it wasn't excluding money. It was actually probably the way to the most money. Like if I think about any person at the top of their field, whether it's Florida, he ends up making the most money,

whether it's Mike Tyson, he ends up making the most money because he was the best at what he did. That's the greatness I'm talking about. I think the greatness I'm talking about it comes with the fame, it comes with the talent, it comes with the money.

It's all around a reward for being great. I want to add. But see, sometimes, just real quick, and I totally agree with Mace, but sometimes like this, right? and I use this slogan before luck is the residue of design

so when you sit there and you practice your craft if you're Mike Tyson if you're Floyd Mayweather if you're Mason Betha and you've been practicing your craft and I'll just use Mason Bethel

if you're practicing your craft if you're learning how to do hooks and you're one of the best lyricists and you're clever with words and you're clever with making music. If you don't bumping the puff on the dance floor, where are you at with all that? That's true.

You get what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? So therefore, it's not, sometimes you can be the best. You know, Jada Kiss has a line. What happened to the, I can't pardon me if I'll chop the line up a little bit, but he says what happened to the dude and Jill better than Joe, and then get that shot.

So you have people who may be practicing to be the best that they craft, but if the opportunity doesn't present their self, then what's going to happen? You know, a lot of times I say things, and it turns out to be funny, but I'm serious. Like, you know, it turned out to be funny when I was talking about females southern and south of Mataim, but all jokes aside, what other opportunities do they have outside of not saying that Mata'in doesn't have things to give up. but if that's the only opportunity that they have, what else are you going to do? Sometime you could be the best and practice your heart out and everything else, but you have to have the opportunity

to present itself. Because when you got to think about this, when Mason myself, we wasn't standing around our blocks saying we the best. It's a bunch of liggins. We're going to fucking meetings with A&Rs. We spent a sneaker money on studio time.

We're going to Jack the Rapper. We're going all over the place. We went everywhere. We went everywhere. Exactly. Because if you stay there and try and sit there and say, okay, I'm the best of somebody going to come over and figure it out. If you in Harlem, it's one of you in Nebraska.

It's one of you in Arkansas. It's one of you in Seattle. What's going to make them niggins believe that you have something different? Same thing with stat. Statt. You sit there, you're a journalist. One of the top journalists actually got awards for NAACP, et cetera. What if Kevin Spencer doesn't answer your email?

What if he doesn't pick up your phone call? What if you don't get to the studio when we ask you to come to the studio? I'm not saying you wouldn't be successful, but I'm just saying you're one of the top sports shows, period, but by luck as well. No matter how much you went to school No matter how much you plan for this No matter how much it does You worked hard Sometimes luck is the residue of design

Same thing with Nick You too You too Nick I just happened to walk in the studio And lobby like oh it's a studio here Luckily Nick was there Nick's like oh shit Cam I'm from New York

Oh shit yo this crazy What if Nick went to the bathroom You may not even be in that studio You know what I'm saying It's a fact. This is all truth. But let me ask you this. Sometimes you can work your heart out,

but the opportunity has to present itself. Go ahead, Mo. Yeah, but so you'll say that that way. Me and Nick was having the same conversation before the show. Nick was in here. We probably talked about 20 or 30 minutes. You'll call that luck.

I call that you walking towards your destiny. And every time you have an opportunity to seize the moment, whether you're going to jack the rapper, whether you're going to hang up a poster or anything to help you helps you to advance towards what you should be doing, you're just paying attention to the voice

and you're staying focused on the main thing that gets you there, right? And so where you will say luck is a residue of design, it's you constantly listening to this voice that keeps you going towards a thing and not becoming distracted. I actually think that everybody ends up earning their place. I think everybody ends up getting what their works deserve,

whether you're making good decisions or bad decisions. And if you make bad decisions, you'll go towards a different fate. And I'm just talking about my own life. And things started to go well for me, once I start making all these, like, small decisions and where they would seem like coincidence, I didn't look at them as coincidence. I look at it like as God in the universe rewarding me for me staying down the path. Like, I felt like I was supposed to meet y'all. I was supposed to get

the call from you. I was supposed to do this. Like, this is where your life is supposed to be at. So, like, I totally get and agree with you're saying. And then I also would add to it that I view it as like you're paying attention to what you should be doing. And I call it like, If something energizes you and it draws you like just energy and happiness, I think that that's God saying, hey, this is what you should be doing or this is who you should be dropping closer to. And things that sort of like drain you, you shouldn't be around those are things that help you get to your dream. You'll naturally be pulled to do these things.

And if you pay attention to them, then and sort of obey and walk in that way, then, you know, I don't know, you'll be rewarded. I believe in that too, though, Ma. I'm not disagree with you. I think we say the same thing. I believe, no, no, I believe what you're saying is destiny as well. A lot of things is destiny and I, you know, I'd use luck as to resume design, but you're saying destiny, I'm supposed to be where I'm supposed to be, and I believe in that as well.

But that doesn't mean it's bad people who aren't where they should be in. You know what I'm saying? Like, I just use a different example. Like, I got an uncle who came home from jail, right? And this doesn't do with us. And he keeps telling me how, he used to rob banks. And he told me He said

Out of my Like You All I had to do Is make that left turn We was good But you didn't You went straight

You didn't make the left turn So you got You went to jail So therefore I understand When you're coming from As well I'm not disagreeing with you

But everybody doesn't get the opportunity But I totally get what you're saying. You have to be there. Same thing. That's why I use Mason's example, because he went to meet Jermaine Dupreep,

but it was destined that he met Puff to me. But he had to get there, but he didn't just go there without putting the work in first. They didn't just go on the women and say, yo, yo, let's go figure it out. I'm a freestyle.

No, he put the work in to go there. You know what I'm saying? So I'm just giving different points. but I think what everybody said is correct. I just want to give a few different angles from what we're talking about. Yeah, I also want to say,

you have to put yourself in a position to be able to accept good opportunities as well because I think a lot of people, because we started the conversation with fame and talent, and a lot of people do have talent that they're either hiding from the world or even kind of what we were discussing earlier. There are TikTokers.

There are people who started on musically, just lip-syncing things, who had quite literally no time. talent and how to create a talent out of that just to translate that talent to dollars that they never had just to be able to make a living out of something that wasn't initially sustainable. So it's interesting because nowadays there's so many loopholes and it's interesting every time I talk to y'all because to me you guys are people who have, I call it real fame. There's like different sections of fame. Like when you bring up a clarity question. What is that?

Yeah. So, like, Mace brings up the story of how he actually had to use to go city to city to, like, promote albums and promote tours and things like that. People really can just pick up a phone and post something or make, like, I saw a clip of like, Ice Spice getting in a fight at McDonald's, but it was to promote a collaboration that she had with Wendy's. Like, that's not a normal way of showing this is my talent. It's just to get a click or just to have a viral moment. So it's kind of misconstrued because my generation sees clips like that. And we're like, oh, this is sustainable because we're not thinking talent. We're like this person is famous.

This person has views. And unfortunately now all it takes is views to translate to dollars. So that's something that you value, which comes back to what is it that you value, that's all you really need. You don't really have to have talent to back that up because I know if I have a viral moment in return, I'm going to be rewarded. with money and that kind of goes back to the player conversation with that. Like if you, you know, I'm obviously to get to the league, it's a lot more than just a viral moment. But if you can have the opportunity to get to the league and then some people are able to kind of cruise by and have other viral moments in addition to maybe just some good plays here

or them that are able to kind of keep them there, there's not really like a concrete way of like this is what you're supposed to do to get to this next level. It's been misconstrued and we've seen it from just different people because there's not, I'm not going to say there's a whole lot of like super talented that sounds terrible but it's the truth super super talented people of this generation because there's just a million and one ways to to get a view or get a click or to become viral or become famous they're not showcasing they're not this generation is not showcased in much of their talent because like you said they don't have to yeah they're just going towards the viral moment and then you're recognizing this person

does have some time yeah I think when people when the masses are drawing the people that doesn't come from the machine, you just had something that the whole world wanted. Yeah. And I think there's people that in this generation, they have that. The money just helps it. And I think that's the thing that really that makes a lot of artists freak out because once the machine is pulled away from them, they recognize it wasn't you.

It was the marketing dollars that was behind you. And they're like, oh, everybody's not helping me. No, it was never you. You just had something, but they were throwing, you know, the gas on your fire. That's your little sum to help. Where all those numbers come from? But see, see, this is the thing. This is all great points.

I love this conversation because it to me is when, if I'm younger, right? And it's Cam, Mason, Moe having this conversation. I'm 19, stream or whatever you want to call me. I'm like, if y'all want to work harder and not smarter, that's on y'all. Don't get mad at me because I sit home in front of this kid. And I make $20,000 a week. That's on y'all. If you want to get on a flight and fly in and shoot a show 800 days out the week,

that's on y'all nicks. I'm just telling you, if I'm 19, how I would be thinking. You think about this, and this will be my last point on this, y'all guys could close out whatever you want to close out with. I don't know if you guys remember the cat. me out girl. That was on Dr. Phil. Bad baby. Right. Yeah. See, you know my name's that. Why do you know my name? Because that was like my thing. That was the thing. Yeah, she bought 50 million years. That's my point. That's exactly my point. Is she talented?

But she's making 50 million a year, you said? Yeah. Something ridiculous. Yeah. So now you be like, that bitch ain't talented. That is whatever. Whatever. Cash me out. Yeah, you're going to a club and they say, how much are you paying me and you find out she got paid more than you? You tight.

Yes. That's my point. That's exactly my point. So exactly. So you can't get mad. She didn't even do it on purpose. I'm going to pass me out, man. And now, you know, I don't even know she's making that much a year, but I know she's, she had like, I even know she was.

Yeah, but the point back, yeah, she was only fans. Yes. And then after that, you sit there and everybody's not having sex or only, I don't know what she did. But she can be showing her toes. You mad at him? No, I'm not mad. I'm not mad. I'm going to figure it out.

I'm going to figure it out. I'm going to take time loud. y'all mr underscore care i'm going live this week y'all can donate so a clarity question cam if you can make million showing your toes are you showing you no but i'm not going on dr phill and say cash me out neither you know i got a different i got a different type of like you said like mo said i'm talented You make it my point. I said you have dignity. It's certain things.

You say, hey, I'm going to come over here. I'm a boy. I just, no, I never did. I never disagree with your point. But let me tell you this, right? I give you an example so you get where I'm coming from. It's generations. Every generation is different.

You know what type of tantrum my grandfather would fit if he's through if he seen me in a pink jacket? You know what? It, nigger, I can never come back over there. Type of shit you want. What are you thinking about? What you're thinking about? Did your friends let you wear that? Yeah, you keep wearing pink every day.

What's wrong with you, bro? Yo, Doddy, that's my grandma. Tell them to come over here when I'm not here. He embarrasses me because now my friends is talking about your grandson outside and a pink fur with a pink car outside. I don't know what type of shit you are. It's a different generation.

That's getting the great one. point. Yeah. Great point. You can't all that? Yeah. So now when we're talking about it, nigger may look at us.

We're all old enough to be grandparents. Literally, whether we are our aunt, but we're old enough to. Yeah. I sat there thinking about that dog over day. I'm like,

there ain't no grandfather or nothing, but I'm definitely old enough to be somebody grandfather. So when you're sitting there and say, these niggas are here every day we want to show toes or piggies or whatever disc plates, whatever stats show.

You can't get mad at it. It's a new wave, man. It's just me. That's what you seem like, you know what I mean? Go ahead. Even when you say that, what made me think of it,

I said all this stuff was going on, but the internet puts us all in the same room to see it, talk about it, having an opinion on it, where society used to be, if you're older, you stay in old people with business. You know, everybody stayed in their business.

And even as you're saying this, whether I like stat or not, like, I have to be in her business because we're on the same platform. and before everybody just had no mechanism to see everybody's business. So you start to have conversations that you're making my point, Mo. You keep saying when niggas used to be like, you remember the time? Yeah, you know, remember the time when we didn't have to be in everybody's business?

You make it my point. It ain't going backwards, bro. We're seeing that. They keep digging up technology every day. Every day new technology is getting dug up. It's not going backwards. I just remember the times when we did not do it. Well, good.

Go play Michael Jackson, remember the times and have fun. Go play P. Rock and see how smooth as I reminisce. Hey, man. Have fun. I want to leave on this now. I will say it is important still. I think what you value. and also just like remaining true to who you are because there are a lot of loopholes that we see like even for me.

And I obviously everybody's path is different, but even for me, like I went to school in Miami. I was going to class. I was doing what I had to do. Even if I didn't go to class, even if that's not what I wanted to do, I could have worked cool, whatever. At the same time, I'm seeing people live a lot. I'm like, how they get that? I'm like, they're scamming. I'm like, dang, I want to be on a boat.

I want to get this purse. I want to do this. I want to do that. but having a lasting legacy also depends on all the choices that you make in between them. Like for some of the people who was doing the other thing, even though that looked real lit at the time, they can't reap the benefits of all the money that they got because things happen in between time.

And then on the other side, there are some people who can. So you just have to really choose those life decisions that make sense for you. If opportunity presents itself, make sure that you exert yourself to be able to try, at least see what can happen out of it, because you just never know what that next step that you take can lead you to. That's what I'm going to say. But real talent is still a thing.

We see it here every day. It's a very, very real thing. And hopefully people kind of come back to those roots because it would be dope to see more of the newer generation actually like feeding into their good skills or like the things that they do enjoy to do. Like, because we need something and everything. Not everybody can be a doctor. Like we need a range of people doing different things. That's what I'll say. Overall, though, y'all, this is a great conversation.

That's a good takes, though. Went a lot of different ways, but I love when it goes like this because it's just a good overall discussion. But that is all the time that we have for today. Maris, you know, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. Likewise. Thanks, for the shirt coming through. Appreciate your brother. Okay.

Thank you all for watching. And as always, it is what it is.