IT IS WHAT IT IS - IT IS WHAT ITIS TALK EPISODE 10

Episode Date: May 10, 2023

WITH OUR SPECIAL GUEST JAYSON "SHOTGUN" WILLIAMS...

Welcome back to It Is What It Is. I'm Terri Wilson, a.k.a. Stat Baby, with your hosts Cam and Mace. Yeah. How we feeling? It's good, boy. I got that Carolina blue on. He got the Duke on. Yeah, man.

You know who won more championships. Hey, champ. You know where the goat from. Yeah, man. Listen. My success needs the goat. College basketball. Tell you right now.

Okay, so we have a special episode today. But right now, we know the NBA playoffs are in full swing. There are the winners and the losers. But overall, what players and teams do you think have the most to prove? The most to prove, I would say Joel Embiid and James Harden. James Harden, yeah. Yeah, you know, Joel Embiid, a lot of people probably don't even remember that. He first started saying about 10 years ago, trust the process.

Yeah. Trust the process. What is the process? Well, God damn, my nigga. Yeah, how long is this process? Yeah, you know, at the end of the day, I respect the process, but where's the finished product? You know what I'm saying?

So if it's most approved, I'm going to say that because James Harden also left to get a championship. He turned down 103 million for two years to join a championship team. It wasn't Philadelphia at first. It was the Nets. Ended up in Philadelphia. You know, his man down more. We got him over there.

Rob Markman Yeah. And he in shape, so there's no excuses. Rob Markman Right. But I would say those are the most approved as a team. Individually, you got Chris Paul. Yeah, Chris Paul is definitely on the clock. Yes, you got Chris Paul, you have, I would say Kawhi Leonard because you made that move to LA and it hasn't panned out since.

I forgot about Kawhi. Kawhi, you're on the clock too. Yeah, so those are the two individual players, I would say, have the most to prove. But as far as a team and a duo, it's Joel and James Harden. And the Knicks have nothing to prove. If the Knicks make it to the second round, we're happy as New Yorkers. We're just happy that them niggas win the fucking game. Yes.

Okay, and with that, we'll be right back. Pink horsepower. She call this thing about toxic. What's happening, baby? Baby, what's happening? Why you walking like that? That's how, that's how I walk. And then like, you come on breathing on me like that.

I fucking breathe to live. And like, you used to be dark skin and now you act like hella light skin. You fucking blind? I'm dark skin. What the fuck? And then like, look used to be dark skinned and now you act like hella light skinned. You fucking blind? I'm dark skinned. What the fuck? And then like, look at your beard. What the fuck is wrong with my beard? Your beard looks stupid. What the fuck are you talking about? No, I don't even like it. The way you breathe in, all of that.

Has this ever happened to you? Your girl seems to be mad, angry, upset. She's frustrated. There's only one way to handle that. Pink horsepower. Oh, but your breath! But your breath is really refreshing! No, no, no, no, no.

I'm just trying to give you a massage. Plus, have I told you how good your beard looks lately? It looks so good. No. PHP. It works every time. Wait, where are you going? Welcome back.

So today we have special guest and NBA All-Star Jason Williams. Hailing from the Lower East Side of Manhattan, the Phoenix Suns selected him as the 21st pick in the 1990 NBA draft. He was then traded to the 76ers, and then after he ended up with the New Jersey Nets, which is now known as the Brooklyn Nets. In 97, he led the league in offensive rebounds and he played in the 1998 NBA All-Star game. His career came to an end after he broke his leg in a collision on the court.

After he faced some legal incidents throughout the years, with one major incident that sentenced him to five years in prison. During his sentence, he was moved to Rikers Island. Since being released, he strives to help prisoners, athletes, and citizens with anxiety, drugs, and depression through his Rebound Adventure Therapy program. He also speaks out on athlete mental health. Thank you for being here, Jason. I love the intro, man.

Oh, Lord. It is what it is. Thanks for having me. I'm not kidding. Thanks, man. Good job. Thank you very much. No problem, Lord. It is what it is. Thanks for having me. I'm not kidding. Thanks, mate. Good job. Thank you very much. No problem, man.

Thanks for coming up, man. Anytime, brother. You know that. One love. Yep. So listen, I want to start by asking you. Yeah. You know, you played in the 90s.

What do you think about today's NBA? Is it soft compared to when you played? Yeah, for a lot of reasons. See, first of all, like I'm never gonna get back on NBA basketball when I answer this question, right? Cause they gonna say, oh, Jay going against the league. So they find the brothers who are a little lighter skinned than I am, put them on there.

But I'm gonna tell you like it is. Because I was doing this before Charles Barkley was doing this. Remember I was on NBC. I was the one who brought the humor to it. But this is the difference. When me and Oakley and all the other guys, Barkley, we didn't have no Instagram. We barely had cell phones.

So number one was when we saw each other, we saw each other for real. You know, it was like, yeah, right. We were fighting. Yeah, man. So like, yeah man. All of us man, because you know what, say you out with some chick and somebody said, oh you know what she said about you and this and that, oh he said that. It wasn't like we can get on Instagram and be like studio gangsters, you know? We brought it to the court, you know what I'm saying? Or we go around, you know, New York and New York

and New Jersey Nets, same kind of area, right? So we go bar to bar looking for them. You know, you can't find them, but you know, sooner or later, you're gonna have to be at the garden. And that's when we got it on. So, you know, Adam Silver wanted more scoring. He told David Stern to get away with the hand check.

Look, you know how y'all play. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, once you put that on him, you can't move. But if you do move, I know which way you're going. So I can get there. Now if you can't touch a man, he's just right by you. You know what I'm saying? So, a lot more

scoring and then, you know, like the All-Star game, you know, like when we came in, I'll tell you a funny story about the All-Star game. So my first year in the league, my first two games were Michael Jordan and then Larry Bird. Michael Jordan, his first game, I'm there, it's a half court stretching out, and then the whole place erupts. Mike come running out, and I'm like, oh, man. He runs up to me and go, hey, Jace, you're going to have a great career.

And then the place was, I was like, ah, Michael Jordan. Now I've got to be free. Basketball never made me nervous, but now I'm nervous. Mike runs up to you, and I might have to call a calf on that. Mike runs out and just tell you, you're going to have a great career. I was at half court. He wasn't even on the layup line. He came out and just tell you, you're going to have a great career. I was at half court. He wasn't even on the layup line. He came out like eight minutes late.

I didn't know why the crowd was going crazy. So, make a long story long, he came in at eight. Jace, you're going to have a great career. And I was like, it got for real there. They put me in the first play of the game when they put me in. The ball came off. should be easy rebound,

bounced off my head, went out of bounds, took me out. Yeah. That's all right. We go to play Boston Celtics the next night. Yeah. We're going to play against Larry Bird, right? Right. Now, you understand, we grew up, I'm on the Louis side.

So, on this side of the bridge, you know, we all drew your service. Yeah, we know. The other side is knickerbocker. Right. You can't play bad. You know what I'm saying? So I'm like, I'm going to tell Larry Bird that. So Larry heard me say to the coach, put him in.

Because Charles Barkley came in drunk as hell, right? He was hurting that day. So Larry Bird was like, oh, you've been out all night, huh? Right. Take that. Then he went over to Rick Mahorn. Come on, Rick. You can't check me.

You too big. Boom. Finished Rick off. Then he went over to Arm Mahorn. Come on, Rick. You can't check me. You too big. Boom. Finished Rick off. Then he went over to Armageddon. Come on, Army. You still colorblind? Bring your ass out here. Boom.

So I'm the only one left. We're always talking crazy like that. Yeah, always talking, man. So I'm like, put me in. Put me in, coach. And the guy, coach, I'm the only one left, right? So he put me in. So I went out there. I was like, come on, man, let's go.

Let's go. He gave me a pump fake man back in the day. I could jump that high. I jumped up in there, I came back down. He said, stupid, bap, hit a three. So I was like, okay, next time I ain't gonna jump. So he looked at me and said, oh, you ain't gonna jump? Bap, hit another one.

How much burn had that? Well, let me tell you something. Hey, hey Mase, he came back down again, right? I said, I bet you can't take me on the post. Gave me one of these, one of those posts, went around and dunked it. Now I'm running back down listening to what my daddy said. Boy, you should have been a brick mason. You know what I'm saying?

Maybe I can play in this damn league. These boys is good. So I ran back down. I told him, I said, look, you want to fight me? So I just started grabbing. I started grabbing him, just started to told him. So now second half starts, and the same thing. Larry starts lighting up one, lighting up another one,

lighting up another one. And it gets to me at the end of the bench. I started looking up in the stands at the fans. I was like, please don't put me back in. Now that's the only punk story you're going to get from me because I was scared to go in the game to play against Larry Bird. And then when I got to the rookie team, the All-Star game, so I get there early.

You know, you see I get to the show early. I get everywhere early, want to be prepared. I walk in, and Larry Bird's the coach. I said, I ain't seen this much. So I just, he says, I said, hey, what's up, coach? He ain't say nothing. And then he thought about it. He said, your minutes I said, hey, what's up, coach? He ain't say nothing. And then he thought about it.

He said, your minutes are on the refrigerator, mother effing rookie. Because that's what he had called me. He called me and put the MF, the rookie, in the game way back. Crazy. And that's the only thing he said to me. But he said, look, we get 50,000 if we win, 25 if we lose. I want to win. Right.

That went a long way to tell you about the All-Star game. You know, we got more money. But now, you know, so we played harder. Plus, it was much more pride, man. You know what I'm saying? It was, you know, look, I heard people say, when my mom kissed my dad before he went to work, she knew she wasn't going to see him for another 12 hours.

Right. You know what I'm saying? That's how we were in the NBA. We weren't going to see him for another 12 hours. Right. Absolutely. You know what I'm saying? That's how we were in the NBA. We weren't going to see you until we see you in another game. And you got the best of me. But now y'all just, you know, these kids get on the computers like they still playing each other.

Yeah, absolutely. And everybody's friends. Right. Who was the biggest shit talker now that we're talking about this that you played against? Who talked the most shit that you liked? The dirtiest player was the Reverend, excuse me. You know, um, excuse me, Masey. You know, uh, A.C. Green. Man, you know, all the time preaching and all the time reaching. You know, yes sir, A.C. Green was the dirtiest

breacher I've ever seen. You know? That is truth there, man. Who's your goat, though? Who's the goat? Who's your goat? Yeah. Man, Will Chamberlain. Oh, man. You know why? Because, you know, now you know, Will Chamberlain

was my mentor. But he played every game of every minute of every second, right, and didn't foul out for a whole season and some damn Chuck Taylors. Wow. Right? These guys got sneakers now that come from Mars, and they have load management. Right?

They're playing three or four days a day out. You know what I'm saying? That's what's up. Yo, this dude damn near playing bad foot. You gave somebody some Chuck Taylors right now, right, they can't wait to get them all. That's a fact. That's true.

I seen the one with Michael Jordan, so his feet was bleeding in them. Yeah. And he played at the Garden, man. And Kareem played in the shell toes. Yeah, Kareem too. He went to my high school, you know? Right.

I saw Kareem one time in Harlem, right? I was like, hey Kareem, how you doing? It's Chase Williams. I went to the high school, I was in the league Kareem one time in Harlem, right? I was like, hey Kareem, how you doing? It's Chase Williams. I went to high school, I was in the league. He said, fuck you. I said, God damn. I don't have no good stories about Kareem. I said, damn, Kareem.

Kareem. I'm gonna have him all the way to Sylvia's. Maybe because you call him Kareem. Yeah, oh, you know what? Yeah, that's what you want me to call him, Alcindor? Lil Alcindor. Lil Alcindor? But he had changed into Kareem.

Oh, he had changed into Kareem, yeah. He had changed into Korean. Yeah, he probably would have whipped my ass. I can't imagine. You better not call that nigga Lil Alcindor, nigga. Smack fire. I tried to send him off. Call him Lil Alcindor. What do you think about the comparison?

And you're an older player, so I may know what you're going to say. But LeBron and Michael Jordan, what do you think about that comparison? Being that you played against Mike as well. It's a comparison that gets me in trouble because one of my best friends who got me out of a lot of trouble and sent me where we'll talk about later is Charles Oakley. Charles Oakley is like LeBron's nephew, uncle, and Michael Jordan's his best friend, right? So he caught in the conundrum.

So I answer that question depending on how he feeling that day, right? But why you say that about Michael? Why you say that about LeBron? But in the beginning, I think Michael was more of a killer, right? See, look, I'm going to tell you for real. You know, LeBron James is a freak athlete. Yeah. LeBron James came to play, but Michael Jordan played every game.

Right. He was like, you know, he just sit out. Michael Jordan has not done as much for the community. I say that, he get mad. I say that he get mad. I say the same thing. But he has done a lot. I said the same thing. I have to tell you something.

I said the same thing. All right. So this is the difference. Michael Jordan be smacking on that gum. Right? And you follow him, he be like, go ahead, do that shit again. So this is the difference. Michael Jordan be smacking on that gum, right? And you follow him, he'd be like, go ahead, do they shit again. You see what happened to you after the game.

See? You know? Mike's after the game. Yeah, Mike's after the game, guy. Mike after the game. And let me tell you, after the game, he got the brothers with the feather in the cap. Them old cats.

65, sit at the bar, put one bullet in at a time, you know, drink a whiskey. You know what I'm saying? He ain't got none of this young, holding the gun upside down. Let me ask you a question. Do you know a story that Mike and these niggas with the feathers in their hands

stepped to somebody before? Man, you really gonna get me in trouble. I seen them. You see them? You don't mess with Michael. Let me tell you what Michael Jordan do, man. Michael Jordan used, man. Michael Jordan used to park his Lamborghini, and we didn't have no Lamborghini.

We was just getting off Cadillac going into Mercedes. And he'd park his Lamborghini in front of the visitor. So that's us. And then we had to slide across his door to get in there. I remember we had to play with Kerry Kittles one time. Kerry was like, who car is this? I said, I don't want no deal for me because I didn't have to check him. I said, it's Michael Jordan. He said, oh shit. But hey, that's the kind of game we play. And take you out in Chicago, take you out all night, right? Because he has his

own restaurant and he up in there drinking water. We up in there drinking spirits. Next day, he flying all over you. Not that he had to and not to take anything from LeBron. You know, they just two different type of players. They both great. So you know, I'm always going to go with my era. You know what I'm saying?

My era. Right. Who's your championship pick for this year? I'm gonna tell you something. I get emotional when we talk. I was rooting for Dallas. Yeah. Believe it or not, because let me tell you something.

Nobody has done more for people that look like us sitting here on this panel, for drugs and alcohol and treatment than Mark Cuban. Mark Cuban sees some of that stuff. He'll call you, Jay. I got this guy. They got Delonte West, too, right? Absolutely.

I got this person. He don't have to be. Get this person better. Now, you know, the NBA don't do that. Once you finish, I understand that. I'm finished with them. So he'll go over, and then you'll go to the next cat, right? Is that mostly for Dallas Mavericks?

No, it could be for anybody, and then you'll go to the next cat, right? Is that mostly for Dallas Mavericks? No, it could be for anybody, man. It could be for anybody, so I kind of put my allegiance toward him, and then when Kyrie went over there, I was like, alright, we're going to change this thing, and it's going to go the way it is, but it looks like so far, you know, Phoenix,

you know, and yeah, Phoenix looks pretty good, but, you know, but yeah, you know and yeah Phoenix looks pretty good but you know but yeah you know Mark Cuban you know yeah but that shit ain't working out but that's true

and then I like Milwaukee so you got a Phoenix against Milwaukee now who you taking Giannis or Durant that's tough y'all got Durant on the show Giannis been on here yet I'm going or Durant? That's tough. Y'all got Durant on the show. Giannis been on here yet? I'm going with Durant no matter what. I'm going with Durant because he's been on the show. I'm going with Durant.

All right? He ain't been here yet, but that's the whole thing. He's coming up. All right. All right. At the end of the day, I don't go against Kevin Durant. But nobody. Right.

That's just me. He dipset and all. That's part of the family, man. So who was your toughest competition? I would ask you playing ever person who gave you the most, the hardest time. Charles Oakley. Charles Oakley.

More than Barkley. You know, more than Barkley. Look man, Charles Barkley. I played with him for two years. Right. And I played with Michael Jordan in all-star games. So I probably had a chance to practice with them both. Yeah. Right?

See Charles Barkley would fight you if you play him too hard in practice. Wow. Charles Oakley, I mean, Michael Jordan would fight you if you wasn't playing him hard enough. You get it? So we'd be in the practice and we'd be looking for Charles, where Charles at?

And then Charles would be on the side riding a bike. And he used to come in with these hotcakes and sausage. He'd put them in there and he'd roll them up and put the syrup in the butter and squeeze it and then just be on the bike for about one mile an hour eating it. Once y'all run the floor! You're lazy sons of bitches! That's why we can never win. We ain't gonna never win, kid.

And pancakes and shit be spitting all over the floor. I played with him for two years. He practiced two times and I probably had to get in 10 fights for him. Every time he went somewhere. You know, I was his bodyguard. Man, you know what the dude said about me? Knock him out. You know, then my fine came.

Then my check come. My daddy, it was just me and my daddy. He be like, man, you owe these people money. You know? So, Barclay, you know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying?

You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? You know what I'm saying? do say about me? Knock him out. Then my fine came. Then my check come. My daddy, it was just me and my daddy. He be like, man, you owe these people money. So Barkley only practiced two times. Two times in two years. In two years. Yeah. Oakley. Yeah, Oakley.

Now, Oakley was my guy when I went on the court. Me, him, and Bruce Smith was, we had Big Daddy's. We had Big Daddy's. It was a place that I owned. And we were in there drinking till about 11, 30, 12 o'clock at night. And Oakley looked over at me and he said, hey man, you best to get home, young buck.

And I said, get home? He said, yeah, you got a game tomorrow. So who we play? I said, we play you. I said, what time? He said, one o'clock. It was a one o'clock game on NBC at the Garden. So I figured, yo, he came in my place,

hoped he want some drinks, he gonna be all right. You know, it's gonna be like one of the games of today's era, you know? So I walked up to him, I said, hey man, boy, I sure am sick, man. We did, we tore it up last night, you good? He's like, I feel great. So I was like, man, that was kind of something.

The ball went up, he said, pow! Hit me right in the mouth, you know? And then that was on. So me and him just wrestled the whole game. Nobody watching, nothing going on with basketball. It was just me and them just slumping each other on the ground. Nice. You know, but nothing dirty, you know.

No. But just, he is the toughest guy. That is. And it's just like when we go to Miami, man. Like, Miami was never that good. You know how it is when you get from New Jersey, you get off the plane in Miami. Yeah, absolutely. You know how it is when you get from New Jersey, you get off the plane in Miami.

You know what I'm saying? Basketball is the last thing on your mind. You know what I'm saying? They had like three buses. You know, the superstar bus, the white boy bus. You know, that was the only bus that got there on time. You know, guys that didn't play, you know. And then my bus, you know.

What was on your bus? What was on your bus? Just me and the driver, you know, and then my bus. Right. What was on your bus? What was on your bus? Just me and the driver, you know, trying to catch up to the first bus so we don't get fired. Right. Thank you. Maybe I'm my own problem, babe. She tired of hearing I don't know. What's happening to me won't fall. Dealing with this thing called trust. But she really thinking about it. She wanna be free.

Why am I in this one? She wanna be free. Welcome back. Okay, so Jason, after your time in the league, you faced a very different route. What happened in between? Well, I got hurt playing an NBA game. That kind of set me on a way of not being in front of the fans

and losing a lot of self-esteem. But I got picked up right away by NBC. And NBC, I was to Charles Barkley, like I told y'all before, before Charles Barkley, brought some humor in there, but something was missing. You know, Cam made, something was missing, man. I just, the roar of the crowd, I don't know. You know, when you go to reporter, you know,

and people look at you different, teammates stop talking to you. But the biggest thing, I lost my routine. See, I used to get up in the morning when I had a game, feed my animals, and then I'd get on my tractor trailer, 18-wheeler, go drop off a dozer, then go to shoot around. And then my dad had me come back, lay brick, and then I go play a basketball game, NBA game. That was my life. And then once I got hurt, I was just laying in the bed and mad at my friends. As the new friends come in, and that's the problem.

When you let new friends in, you let old friends know your routine. All right, Jay, you had two tonight. You got to get up. You got to go leave. And I'm like, well, now what do I got to leave for? So my new friends would say, Jay, man, to hell with that, man. You ain't working for one day a week. And, you know, I just started drinking too much and started getting reckless.

But one night in particular, I bought my, I don't know if y'all know, but I lost three sisters. Two sisters to age. A guy once, when I was 13 years old, followed my sister into a house, stabbed her 17 times and beat her over the head with a hammer. We had to take down all the mirrors in our house because she was deformed. But she went to get a blood transfusion, and she became the first woman in New York City to catch the AIDS virus. It's not like when you have it now, there's ways you can deal with it.

When you get it there, you die in six months. My other sister, Laura, started trying to soothe her and started using drugs with her because they both got hooked on meth and heroin. So I ended up losing both sisters there. And then I had another sister who I love so much. Her husband had a bad day and came home and had too much to drink and took a shotgun and blew her head off.

Then killed himself. So, but my two first sisters, they had- How old were you when this happened? 14. Both of these sisters? Yeah, 14 with my two first sisters, they had- How old were you when this happened? 14. Both of these? Yeah, 14 with my first two sisters. But understand, my dad had jobs. My mom had jobs. You know, my dad was a truck driver.

And then he had a gas station on 151st and 7th. And then he also laid brick. Oh, that gas station. Yeah, you know, yeah. So he had to do that. By the whole stomping grounds over there. Yeah, yeah, right across from the tennis court. But I had to sign with St. John's.

And then after school, so I couldn't let them go to foster care. My mom wasn't working, so I moved them in with me. So they're just a few years younger than me. I'm 18 at this time. One is 11, one is 8. And I wake up the little boy first in Queens and drive him to Manhattan. Then come back and wake up the girl, you know, who's my daughter, adopted now, legally. And then wake them up because if not, you know, their children's child services would take them.

So, you know, then get her to school. And then I had to go to school. Then after school, go back, pick them up. Then go to Queens, pick them up. Then bring them to practice, let them run around. St. John's University was not kind enough to let that happen. And then I would, you know, have to bring them home, get them washed up, you know, give them food, help them with their homework, and then put them to bed. I had to do the same thing and still try to do what an 18-year-old does playing at the most famous university in the world in New York City.

So I had them issues. And we'll fast forward to the accident that I caused in 2002. Rob Markman, Well, before you get there, do you think the things that you went through when you were young played any role in your adult life? Yeah. I think when you have a African-American father and a white mother, you know, 50 years ago, it's not like it is now. We see every commercial. Yeah. You know, so my dad and mom had both been married before.

So my mother married a Spanish man. So my dad and mom had both been married before. So my mother had married a Spanish man, so she had Spanish daughters. My dad had African American kids. And then I moved to the deep south because they thought it was a good time to move away from racism from New York City. And then we moved to a little town called Ritter, South Carolina. And most people haven't even seen a white person, let alone a white and a black together in a high yellow like myself.

So I had to use my imagination and play by myself. So a lot of times, but I knew something was off because I said, you know what, even though I got beat up every day on the bus, I couldn't tell my dad because he would go hurt somebody. And even when my uncle did something to me, I couldn't tell my dad what his brother did because I know he would have killed him. And I wouldn't have seen him. What did his brother do? My uncle molested me.

And that's the nice way to say it. So if there is a nice way to say it, that's the easy way to say it. But what we did do is I knew that I had to keep my family together all times. So I couldn't sell. My dad went to his grave not knowing that. I always been about keeping my core people. And that's what killed me, Mase. That's what killed me. If you fast forward to it, I'm a core person. You're my crew. If you're with me, I roll with you.

That's what I was getting at, because when, as I was following your story, that's the first thing I thought about. I was thinking something, and I shared this with Cam. I said something had to happen young for the things that transpired later, because me being a person outside of music and stuff, I did a lot of training and therapy and stuff like that. So I kind of understood that. So all of the actions that you were making, I was able to follow that, not therapeutic,

but therapeutic and noticing that these things happen and they never went away. Even though you got older and you got money, like we was talking about the Gary Comer syndrome, it's like those things don't leave because you got money. I didn't know exactly what happened, but you may mention in one of your documentaries or the conversation where you said somebody broke a pool table, a pool stick over the head because of something that happened and I was going to ask you what was that, but I guess this was that thing that made him break the pool stick over the head because of something that happened and I was going to ask you what was that, but I guess this was that thing that made him break the pool stick over his head.

Rob Markman Right. Rob Markman So as you got older, did anything change? Was this a one time thing? Was this like, just for the listeners who are listening? Rob Markman You know what? It didn't... Let's fast forward over the accident. Let's go 23 years till we're out today. So about five months ago, I got elected into the St. John's Hall of Fame.

Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thanks. You know, I gave more money to St. John's. I'm the only player to ever donate money to St. John's. I donated $2.1 million. The only player? Yeah.

What about Mark Jackson? You know Mark is, you know how you preachers get. Y'all get through here. You know? You know? You know? You know? You know?

You know? Cam on me, Mark. Mark, Mark, Mark. Mark. You know? Come on, Mark. I remember I used to come to the church. I'd come a little late.

They'd say, oh, you know, we're going to pass that come to the church. I'd come a little late. They'd say, oh, you know, we're going to pass that play to the girl one more time. No, Mark didn't make no donation. I love him, but he didn't make none. I'm the only player ever. The only player ever. Let's be clear.

Luke Conner's second would not like that, Mark. You know, the only player ever. Fast forward to 23 years later. Right. You know, the only player ever. Like you said, fast forward to 23 years later. Right, that day, give me an award. And the night before, my manager wakes me up and says, hey, man, your kid just put out a press release on you.

And the press release was, you know, saying he's not a good father. Y'all shouldn't give him an award. And then the St. John's came back and said, hey, you know, we give him an award on what he's been through, a lot of trauma when he was a kid. And that he's been great here. And he runs a treatment center for drugs and alcohol. And it's helped 325 people save lives. And they put that all in there. But the one thing that hit me was when he said trauma.

I was like, I never had no trauma. Because trauma means like my daddy wasn't protecting me. My daddy's my own everything. He protected me, me and my mama. So that word stuck with me. But see, trauma's not the actual event. It's how we remember it. That's the trauma.

And I did have trauma. Because you know how we are. And our family, if something happens to us, we go to the funeral, and then we tell what we love about it, and we have some laughs about it, we cry, and then we're the next man up. So when people say, how can you raise two children in college? It's impossible. It's just, I'm the next person up.

But you deal with a lot of stuff. And then you keep building it up, building it up. And then when you have a treatment center, you know, you can hear other people and I could be a warning or an example to them down in rebound, you know, and, and, and, and you got to walk, you know, a certain way and got it. So, you know, it's not a way I deflect, but going back, if you want to go back to the night of the accident, that was with my dad, who's my best friend, who was with me everywhere, not what the press says it is.

It was my dad, my children now, who were with me at St. John's, I adopted, and their children. So my grandchildren went to watch the Globetrotters. And it was a couple of Globetrotters playing that would play with me with the Nets. And I didn't like that. I said, nah, man, they must need some money. So I said, man, when y'all finish, come back by my house. Not to cut you off, you didn't like it because they were former NBA players

that had to subject themselves to go play at the Globetrotters? Yes, and not to say the Globetrotters, you know, if they weren't, they had to play for the Globetrotters. More of a story, you didn't like it. I didn't like it. I didn't like it. And I'm not taking anything away from the Globetrotters.

Right. You know, and I like these two guys. And so I said, hey man, when it comes over, come to my house and give me some money. And they end up, we went out to get something to eat, went over to the house. We ate. The limousine driver, Mr. Gustafi, was family with us. He came in, and he ate with us in the restaurant, and then we all got in the car to go over, and I've never met him before in my life, Mr. Gustafi, the limousine driver. And I went home, and to be real, instead of showing people the Picassos that I had, you know,

gotten and everything else, I went into my bedroom where I have all these guns that are locked up in, because we have skeet machines. And somebody had given me some nice shotguns in there. What's a skeet machine for those who don't know? A skeet machine is where they throw clay up and you go. So it's shotguns, it wasn't pistols. And I was showing it to him and while I was passing one out, when I passed one this way and the gun went off and it hit Mr. Safi in the chest and he killed him.

Rob Markman, So how many did you pass out before that? Probably about seven or eight. And I didn't even know he was there. Rob Markman, So that was the last gun? Yeah, it was the last one. And I didn't even see him there and I thought he'd be in the car. And I was just doing that so I'm going to go back, get the money, give it to them, go on their way.

But I acted like a coward. I ran and then jumped in the pool. They said I was in shock. And anything, I tell you this, I don't wake up any day not feeling remorse or sorry or repentful for what I have done. So I'm not proud of it. And I talk all around the country about gun safety. You couldn't give me a gun. I see a gun and a young man was standing behind us with two of them. That wouldn't have bothered me back then.

You know, today it does. And when you ask me the question, Cam, why do we ever carry guns as famous as we are? You know what? It's never because we're going to get robbed in the club. This is because that new inner circle we let in. And we're stuck with our same old boys, where we grew up with, the people that helped you out. You know what I'm saying?

It's that we get that new group, we bring in a new group, and then you got to let them know, yo, I ain't no sucker. Right? And so, you know, you ain't going to be blackmailing or doing something like this, and your self-esteem is gone. And when self-esteem is gone, you drink your stuff again. Rob Markman, What would they be blackmailing or doing something like this, and your self-esteem is gone. When self-esteem is gone, you drink your stuff together. What would they be blackmailing you off? Well, anything.

They know where your money is. You know what I'm saying? They know you might not be home with your wife when you're supposed to be. You know, anything. They could beat anything with this. Speaking of that, with this particular situation that we're talking about now, when you was going to trial or when you was home waiting to go to trial or anything like that, did one of your friends try to extort you for money or a job or something like that?

Mr. Benjamin? Yes. Right. How did that go? Wow. You know, it's funny that you say that because I just did an autograph signing last week and he was there. Wow. And my manager is a Christian guy and Curtis Martin prays with us every Wednesday.

We have a conversation. Right. And he walked in, man. And now, oh, the Jason. You know, look, the person who did that to my sister, they found him. His name was Sergio. Right. And then I got, they brought him to me and said, Jay, you know, Apache.

He said, Jake, shoot this guy. He's the one that killed both your sisters. Gave me a gun. I didn't do it. I'm not a killer. You know, and then for four or five years, go around the neighborhood, Jay ain't no killer. You know, Jay ain't no killer. You know, but so now we go into a situation where it goes.

And this is before the incident? Yeah, this is right, we caught them before I was even 19, 18 years old. But now we fast forward to Benoit. Yeah Benoit wanted some money for the sale. I said, look bro, just tell the truth. Just tell the truth, man. And he might have been in a bad position and that's what I told my lawyer. He's in a bad position. Let me just take I told my lawyer. He's in a bad position.

Let me just take care of him. I ain't buying the truth. Let's let this thing go away. My lawyer said, no, you can't do that, Jay. And then I ended up seeing him last week at an autograph signing. And he just came up to me this close and was hugging me. And like, man, Jay, you remember when we was crazy? Not even remembering all of the stuff he has caused.

But, you know, I started crying because. What did you do? Not to fast forward from your visit, from you seeing him last week, but when that actually happened, what was your reaction? Because like, what do you mean you want some money from me? What do you mean give you a job for your testimony? What, what, what, how did you handle that friendship? Did you see him in between?

for your testimony. How did you handle that friendship? Did you see him in between? No, but my thing was, yo, what is the NBA player asking for this low amount for? You know, just give it to him to tell the truth and let's get up, you know, give it to him. That's what I said. Benjamin the basketball thing?

Yeah, I said, give it to him. So I said, so, you know, so I was just like, you know, this a long time ago with my lawyers. Sometimes lawyers want to make stuff drag out. Rob Markman, You know what I'm saying? And protect you. So I don't know. But regardless, man, they put him on the stand.

Everybody else said one thing. He said another. The jury saw it my way. They knew it was an accident. It's just that what I did after the accident, which I take full responsibility for, man. But seeing him hugging me, man, it was a good chance. I wanted to let all the little kids

outside and lock the door on him. But you know what? God has taken me so far right now helping people. If I did that, Cam, I would have gave it back, man. But let me say something.

Let me say it, man. At the very end, he came up to me and I said, I'm out, man. And I even told him I'm out. He ran up to me and came in just this close to my face and he said, he said, Jay, I need help, man. I need help. And I said, I said, I said, look here, man. He says, take me with you. I said, look, man, I'm clean as over. I run a treatment center

down here. Seven years. Last week? He asked you to take him with you? Yeah. And you know what, man? Wow. And this is God's own truth, man. Y'all niggas some cool niggas. I would slap the shit out of them. You know. Fuck you mean you coming with me? After you tried to extort me for testimony that could have possibly sent me to jail for

the rest of my life if they didn't see a manslaughter for money or job. It ended up getting wiped away. You see them however many years later, nigga, like, yo, can I go with you? Nah, you might just slap. I might spit on them. Tell you, man. It was hard. It was a weird, hard day getting out of there.

And then a week later, people were saying that Benoit was calling them because he got everybody's number. And then I called the NBA and said, would y'all mind if I help Benoit get into a rebound because it looks like he's going through some issues. And he said, well, he just called up to you and cursed us out right now. Let's get back to you. So, you know, and like a person like

that, you know, I call Mark Cuban and Mark Cuban and say, hey, man, maybe we can help this person or maybe not. Or Mark might say the same thing you just said, man, you know, that dude just tried to lie and put you in jail for the rest of your life, Jay. You can't save everybody. So that's where it goes. Rob Markman Let me ask you something. When you say, when you make this statement, I take full responsibility, what does that mean? Jayme Johnson That means for leaving the accident and causing it too. Look man, I could have been showing them my pictures. I could be showing them my old cars, new cars,

my tractor trailers I drive every day. You know, here I am showing guns. You know what I'm saying? If I was with my older group, you know, my people, my college coach and everybody, they would say, Jay, what the hell are you showing that gun for? What you showing them that for? They in the case, they can see.

You know what I'm saying? But something was off. Probably didn't trust something or, you know, but it wasn't like it was handguns. it was just shotguns that we used shooting skeet, which I shot every day. But still shouldn't have been around it. Rob Markman Yeah, but what makes you say, I took full responsibility? What does that mean?

Because if I would have never went to that case, Mr. Christofri would still be alive. Rob Markman That's what I'm talking about. Yeah, he'd still be alive. That's what I'm talking about. He'd still be alive. I could control that accident. So you end up going to jail. How was it? What was your time like while you was in jail? It ain't no joke. You know, these little kids out here running around now, they think, you know, let's go with the simple stuff first. Cam, you know, they say, well, yeah, man, I can do time. I ain't worrying about it. Maybe these little, you know, rugrats can do time.

But can their grandmama do it? Can their mama do it? Can their daddy do it? Why are you in there? But when you come out, when now you are, look, when I came out, I was like, I'm going to go into a, I want to live in that building right there. So I told my agent, called me back. He said, well, you can't live in that building. And I said, well, he said, pick another one. I said, why?

That's the newest one. It's in the Lower East Side. He said, Jay, pick another one. I said, why can't I live there? He said, they got an HOA, Home Owners Association. I said, what does that mean? He said, that means you're a convicted felon. You know, now think about that.

If they send you back to your neighborhood, of course you're living next door to a convicted felon, right? Most likely, we have another one in our family. Right? Or somewhere. So it's hard to find, you know, that source. But the hardest part for me was, I'm claustrophobic.

You know, so putting me, I ain't scared of no wolves. I mean, I'm in northern state, mid-state, right away, you know, Rikers Island. You know what I'm saying? You know, once they close that door, it could sound like this. Bam. And then you'd could sound like this. Bam! And then you'd be like, whoa. Bam! One more time.

And I'd be like, why they gotta lock the damn door twice? And all the stuff they tell you six by eight, that ain't true. You know what I'm saying? Because I can't lay neither way to stretch my legs. And you know, the ceilings were high, but I couldn't stretch my hand and just count my breath, man. And you know, and that's why I would never ever, you know, see anything in a cage and not release it.

And that's why I have reentry programs, you know, for people to be truck drivers and construction. You know, but let me tell you something, man. And look, I ain't never scared of no wolves. You know, we all been in here. I'm from the low East side. You know, I'm not scared of the wolves in there. You know, I can handle four or five of them.

That means I can handle 15,000 with a dry cold. Rob Markman Right. You know what I'm saying? But it's the way you carried yourself. With great humility and the way I carried myself on the street. The way I carried myself on the street is what got me over in there. You know, because I wasn't, you know, trying to, you know, pop my collar on people. Rob Markman What's the craziest thing happened?

We'll move past jail. The craziest shit in jail that happened while you were there? I'll tell you two stories. One would remind me about the coffee machine, and I'll tell you this one. We had this brother in there. His name was Joe Johnson. He was like a heavyweight champion.

He'd been in jail 25 years. So they became my bodyguard, you know, his self acclaimed, you know, because you know, when you go to, right away you go to, they got the booty bandits, you know, and they'd be like, hey man, they come in and then they surround you. And then one bug come in.

Jay, when you up here, when you say booty bandit, just say pause after this, so nobody talk about you real quick. Booty bandits, you got to say pause after. Okay. All right. So you know you got the booty bandits. Yeah.

Pause. You know what I'm saying? So over there, and what they do, man, is they surround these young kids that come in. They know that you're young. These kids made one mistake, punch somebody in the face, go into jail, then that's why they take their shoelaces and their belts, and they got sagas. That's why they start wearing their pants like that. Some people don't know that.

When you're wearing your pants sagging off your butt, they know that you're a newbie. And then somebody come over there and say, hey man, put you in this cell with this guy, he protect you. Then he'll do what he does. So I came in there and been trying to be a superhero, trying to change that. But changing that, to be honest with you, man, it's just like you, man, it's through God.

Because people say, oh, everybody, you find God when you go to jail. Man, when they lock that damn door twice and ain't nobody been in there but you, and you feel like you got just enough air to make it to tomorrow, you better pray on God. You asked me one of the stories, one of the stories Cam, so this big dude, Joe Johnson,

he was my bodyguard, boy, you know they big and you know who just came out of jail. We know, right? That they got big up here, they got little legs, right? There out of jail. We know, right? They big up here. They got little legs, right? There ain't no leg machines there, right? They just doing chin-ups, right? If you see a white dude and he can play spades, you know damn well he's been to jail,

right? So, you know, this dude, Joe Johnson, always with me. Six foot ten, muscles everywhere, standing behind me all the time. And so one day, you know, I'm telling stories like we telling here. And then one day, you know, I'm telling stories that we're telling here. And then one day I told a story about him. I said, man, and then we call him Bojack.

So I said, man, Bojack. And he's like, what's up, boss? I said, you remember when Parzan was cutting your hair and he was on that heroin and he fell asleep and he messed your hair up? And everybody started laughing. But ain't nobody ever laughed at him.

You know, he'd been in there 27 years. Right. Right? So he said, hey, boss, can I talk to you? I said, yeah. He said, let's go in the bathroom. I said, yeah, let's go in the bathroom. You know?

I went in the bathroom and the boy, when he walk, he like Terry Crews. He could make all this bounce around and you know nothing. And he said, you see all this? He said, see all these muscles. You see all these muscles? He said, man, you see, I can't fight. I got a lot of muscles, but I can't fight. But don't let me jump off on your big ass and find out you can't fight either.

Hey, yo. You know? And that was the coldest shit somebody ever told me. So when I went back, I was like, whoa, that's cold, right? And then another time, I just saw a guy get his back broken, and they went to the coffee machine and just got the coffee melting to death. You see a lot of stuff, man. You know, you stay in there long enough.

But hey, but you know what? Cam, this is the thing. Nobody ever came up to me and said, yo, man, let me get your coffee. Let me get your cigarettes. They all said, Jay, when I get out of here, can you help me with a job? Because if a brother got a job, he got respect. Right. And we got to get brothers jobs.

And I'm glad I'm on this platform so large because I know Jay-Z got a reentry program, never called me and that's my brother. That brother, nobody else knows it better than me that you can talk to him this close, tell you to help you. Rob Markman, We don't have battles with Jay-Z. Rob Markman, And then the Kardashians, right? All that other stuff, you got to get people back into society. They're called returned citizens.

So you got to help them return. Are you finding that heart? I'm finding it. I go into prisons maybe once a month, and I speak. And then I have a program where I say, look, come to this tractor trailer school and heavy equipment school, and we're going to help round up a little money if we can a little, and then you in there as a hotel and you're going to run heavy machinery and then you're going to drive trucks on our 350 acres and then you're going to leave with a job with your CDL class A and then you're going to leave with your certification to move every machinery where you can make $25, $30, $35 an

hour. And check this out. What's good about that, Cam, think about parole, right? Now they can get themselves in the tractor trailer, and if the parole officer agrees, you know, they're up and down the tractor trailer. They can live in the tractor trailer. They don't have to live back in the neighborhood. You know what I'm saying? They're living in the back while they're making money.

Gotcha. But, you know, I don't ever hear from no one. Nobody ever. I don't hear from Jay. I don't hear from Kardashians. you know, I don't never hear from no one. Nobody ever. I don't hear from Jay, I don't hear from Kardashians. You know, I'm steady doing this stuff myself. Right. You know? Did you know Kim Kardashian before this?

No. Hell no, you ain't gonna trick me into that one. No, you said you're not hearing from them. I wanna know why would you be hearing from them. Well, they got some going. If they do their homework, there's no reentry. You know? So really quick, I want you to be able to elaborate on this for the viewers who are They got some going. If they do their homework, there's no reentry. You know?

So really quick, I want you to be able to elaborate on this for the viewers who are watching. So you did create a reentry program and rebound treatment center. So can you elaborate a little bit on that and things that you've been able to accomplish? Okay. Two different entities in itself. Okay. The reentry program is for people coming out of jail, men and women. Right? They come out of jail, men and women, right?

They come out of jail. They go up to Jacksonville, Florida. We help them get their driver's license, CDL class. You from Jacksonville. Right. And then we do heavy equipment. That's one. Now, what I mainly do every day here in Florida, right, is that we have a drug and alcohol treatment center, a retreat, is that we have a drug and alcohol treatment center, a retreat, where you come in from anxiety, depression, any kind of drug, and especially with this fentanyl that's going

around right now, we get you better. And we do not go from class to class. We have those, too, but do outdoor venture therapy. So like yesterday, we jumping out of airplanes. The day before, I'm flying an airplane, teaching you how to fly one, do a take off of land. You get scuba dive certified. Rob Markman You're teaching them how to fly.

Rob Markman Yes, and Ted gets scuba dive certified also. We doing wave running, paddle boarding, we have horses, goats, all that stuff you're getting on. And look, right now, me and you can be the toughest dudes in the room, but when I put you in that airplane 13,000 feet and you know- Rob Markman, Jr.: You're not putting me in no airplane. Rob Markman, Jr.: You know what I'm saying? See, now we're getting somewhere though.

Now we're getting somewhere, right? We're getting to the comfort level. You know, now we really start talking about it. You know? So, you know, especially the brothers, man. We get them on the boat and we be like, they be like, what are we going to do on this boat? We going to stay on the boat? And I be like, no, we going to 60 feet, man.

I can't drink all this water. I said, no, we're going to 60 feet. Man, I can't drink all this water. I said, no, brother, we're going down. And now we had the Newark Fire Department come down. And they came. And now what they did, one dude got better, AD. And he went back and he started teaching people and became a master diver. Now they go all around the world and he put that alcohol and drugs down. And they just do scuba diving.

So it's not just to get to the core, everybody wants to labor you. We didn't have all these labels when we was a kid. You had two buses to go to school, right? We knew that. And I ain't gonna get in trouble, you had two buses, right? And then everybody else, and you couldn't sit there. The big bus and the smaller bus. That's right. And then- Why you don't want to say that? You don't sit there. The big bus and the smaller bus. That's right.

Why you don't want to say that? You don't want to say the little bus? You know what happens when you start putting that stuff up. So you had the little bus, but you understood that from them. But some people couldn't stand still in class, and the teacher wrote a letter. The next day, now how did that kid get cured? You know, his daddy came home or his mama let him have it because his mama ain't got time to go to the school because she got four

jobs, right? So we label every time somebody want to keep a clean room or he got OCD. No, he just want to keep a clean room. You know, so every single person have to be labeled. When you come to us, we take you sober, get you off the 20 different pills that you're on now, right? And then we see where you're at. Then our psychiatrist might say, you know something? Yeah, Cam, Cam bipolar. Yeah, we might need to, you know. But they might look at him and say, ain't nothing wrong with him, man.

That brother's good. But anytime we have any kind of little trauma in our life, we need a pill to take it out. It's not how our body works. You're supposed to have some fear. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's what keeps you alive. Fear keeps you alive? Definitely.

It keeps me alive. Because look, how many times, you know, some fear is good fear, Mase. Where do you get that from? Hey, I must be on your record, because I know this. So check this out. Yo, man, you already explained it. Hey, hey, I know this. I got two strikes, right?

You know what I'm saying? I'm about to get them. You know? I've been letting it go the whole time. Go, go, go. But, you know, two strikes. You know, that's, you know, if I jumped off on Benoit, I've been letting it go the whole time. Go ahead. Rob Markman But you know, two strikes. I jumped off on Benoit, I jumped off on somebody, that's three strikes.

So that's fear, like not getting in trouble again because, let me tell you something. Rob Markman So you said fear keeps you alive. Rob Markman Fear keeps you alive, keeps you alert. Rob Markman It keeps you alert. I'll go with that. It can keep you alert. Rob Markman Right. Rob Markman I'm just asking because I. It can keep you alert. Right.

I'm just asking because I'm responsible to keep the truth on here. Okay, yeah. Yeah, it is. You know, it is something that for me, look man, if they say they got Jason Williams, he got parking tickets, he got to go to jail for three years, y'all might as well put on the news and look over at camera and say, yo man, they ain't never taking that brother alive again. Because I'm not going back in there.

You know what I'm saying? That place is not meant for you, Mr. B. So you're saying if you're in a situation and you got to go to jail, you're not going back? I hope I'm not going back. You know what I'm trying to say. Oh, I thought you were going to say that. He ain't going back.

He ain't going back. That guy ain't going. He's ready to shoot out on the highway. That's what I'm saying? He ain't going. He ain't going. That guy ain't going. He's ready to shoot out on the highway. That's what I took it as. Jason, let me ask you something. What was, when you came to the idea of saying, I'm going to go on this show, what was your purpose of going on the show? First of all, I wanted to talk about African-Americans and their un on education of getting treatment. Treatment from what? Treatment from addiction.

Especially with fentanyl being out right now. Because our brothers and sisters are dying on the street because they have the one pill. One kill pill. And we get next time being covered. Like look, back in the day you can go to treatment. Now be honest, I didn't know what it was until I had to go.

But when you come up in there, if you would have said, I need I'm on crack. That was a code for oh, you black. You wouldn't come to that treatment center. But if you said I was on opioids, you was coming to that treatment center. You know what I'm saying? They have a bed for

you. What I'm trying to tell you is happening again. You know, all over again? They have a bed for you. When I'm trying to tell you it's happening again. All over again, now with fentanyl, we are dying at an alarming rate and we don't have any beds. And it's something that we need to learn. Rob Markman How did that become your passion? Like your story is one of triumph, your story is about defeat, your story is about overcoming. How did fentanyl become the thing that you're so passionate about?

Rob Markman, I wasn't. It was alcohol and everything else that started with me. But then when I opened up my center, I think I was just going, I learned as I went. I said, well, this guy's just a four-down drunk. We can get him better by structure, empathy, accountability. No white coat and stethoscope would help it. Then it started changing because you got synthetic marijuana. They're putting different stuff in that stuff now.

You can get it right at the supermarket. You can get it right at any gas station. And then now you go to opioids and now, which, you know, what happened there? Like Richard Pryor used to say, you know, he'd be driving down, he'd say a white couple driving and they'd get off the highway and watch, go look at all these people. It's a shame on drugs and get home and find a 14 year old daughter on drugs and go, damn, it's an epidemic. That means everybody doing it now. And so I grew organically with how it came in. I thought I was just going to be dealing with people on drugs and alcohol and not as much

as mental illness and how strong the drugs have become and you not knowing what you're getting. You know, back in the day, you went and got some drugs. I'm guilty of it. You know what you're getting. You know who you're getting with it. Now where it's coming from, they're making it as ever they want and there's no restrictions. And they're putting some of that stuff in everything

just to keep you addicted to it. So this is what I want to know. So with everything you've seen throughout your life, what made you make those decisions that you made? Since you've seen so many horrible things, what will make you make such a horrible decision? As the accident? Is we using the debate? Just, that's one of them. See, that wasn't even a decision. That was an accident.

So, I think as something that I always knew is, look, Jason means healer. You, you, you know, in the Bible. You know that, Rev. I always like when people can depend on me. That makes me,

give me peace. Look, I would love to do what y'all doing. If y'all put another chair up in here, if TNT or ABC or could have another one. Look, I've come up with, I call Lawrence, I said, Lawrence Taylor. I said, Jeremy Shockey. I said, how about we do our own morning show? What people would want to hear from us instead of the straight-laced guys who never got in trouble, you think they're tuned and listened to.. You take their tune and listen to it. That's what I really would want to do.

But those calls haven't been coming in. I want to do what y'all are doing. Why do you think that hasn't happened? Because I got an answer for you. I think because something that happened 23 years ago, I couldn't give you an answer to that. All I can tell you is, man, it's just one day at a time, one breath at a time for me to keep going. I'm sincerely sorry for what I've done.

I'm remorseful. I'm repentful. I go through it. Sometimes when I'm having too much fun, I sit back and go, man, you shouldn't even be having fun. I beat myself up over it, but I got great people like Curtis Martin has Bible conversations with me every Wednesday and our alumni. So what's holding me back from being back on the set? I guess me, you know, me. Sometimes, you know, you don't want to step out or you want to half step out,

but here I am telling you, you know, I would love to do what y'all are doing, and I would love to be back. We'll bring you back, man. We'll definitely bring you back. Anything else you want to ask them? I got one more question, and I just want to know how this went. How'd you go straight to the pool? How'd that go like, yo, fuck that chlorine, going to clean this off?

Yeah, you know what? You know what happened? You cleaned that pistol off? When you hear boom, I didn't even remember being in it. I didn't remember that when they read it. I was like, I did what? So you forgot you jumped in the pool until you got to court? Yeah.

Didn't even know? No, when they give you the discovery. Did you jump in the pool with the gun to court? Yeah, didn't even know. No, when they give you the discovery. Did you jump in the pool with the gun? Did you clean it up? No, I think the gun was left, the gun there. The gun went just went off. Oh, we got time next question? Never.

Yeah, we got some time. Never ever, you know. Because I read that and I was like, you jumped in the pool. Never, no. That's what I'm saying. I was shocked. And the pool was 100 yards away, indoor.

So you was thinking that the chlorine maybe came? I don't know. Maybe I was thinking that, but maybe not. I was just, you know, I must have been thinking something because I ran back up in there. But see, this is the difference, though. If I had the right people with me, right, they'd slap me and say, yo, Jay, stop.

Right. You had an accident. Right. What the hell are you doing? Don't move. Even though we called 911 in 10 seconds. 911 was called in 10 seconds. It wasn't like we was doing it.

That's what I was going to ask you. 911 was called immediately. It was already underway. So when they got there, you was wet, Paws? I don't even remember. I said Paws, nigga. What the fuck are you talking about? That was crazy.

I said fucking Paws. That's a legit question, nigga. What the fuck are you talking about? That was crazy. I said fucking pause. That's a legit question, nigga. That's legit. That's a legit question. Okay. All right. So when all of this is going on, what would you say to the people that think this wasn't an accident?

What would you say to them? I wouldn't say anything to them because I know it was an accident. And I went to court. It was an accident. You know, I didn't know the man. I had no beef with the man. What would you say to somebody like John Moran? Yeah.

What I tell John is, you know, how one 11-second incident, walking into your house and after 11 seconds could change your life, the same for him. He might've been told that already. I think he should look into the camera and tell it to Ja,

because Ja will be watching. What we do want you to do though, seriously, is let people know where they can find your treatment center at, if they need help and who to go out to to get in contact with you and your people. What is it, Grayson? Reboundforlife.org.

Okay. If you need to get in contact with me, it's reboundforlife.org. It's the 4 and 1-877-2-REBOUND. Okay. Again, Jason? Why you don't know your shit by heart? Man, I don't be much for the answers to this.

You really love to do what you're doing while you're actually a man. Are you just the face for this shit or you really... I think you should have went in the camera. Yo, are you the face or you really behind this, Jay? Ask him. He put the work in? All right, all right. All right. And right, all right.

And then before we go to break, Jacob, do you have any next steps that you would like to share? Well, thank you for coming, man. We appreciate you guys, man. Yeah, no, and you know, just, you know, brother, glad to see how y'all doing it up in here too.

Thank you, man. Like, you know, this for real. Like, sometime I do a podcast, I'll be like, oh, y'all got it, you know, green room, makeup, protection, everything else up in there, man, you know? The producers, executive producer, cord, you know? I appreciate that. We just ain't know how he was coming.

He ain't on set every day. We just making sure he's all right. Oh, shit. Oh, man. Oh, God. Man. We ain't know how he was coming through. Oh, man. Oh, God. We didn't know how you was coming through. Oh, God.

But thank you, Jace. Appreciate you, man. Make sure y'all go check out Jace's Rehabilitation and Treatment Center. Sounds like fun. I mean, it sounds so good that I almost wished, well, no, I don't wish that, but you got stuff for people who are not on drugs. you got all type of activities and shit. You're always welcome to come to Rebound and join us. Thank you.

So if you see me there, I'm not fucked up. I'm just going to support. That's right. Thank you. Thank you. Again, Jason, thank you so much and we'll be right back. Thank you. And I don't know what's happening to me. Won't fall. Dealing with this thing called trust. But she really thinking about.

She want to be free. Why am I. Welcome back. Now we got to talk about the interview with Jason Williams. I think everyone wants to know both of y'all's thoughts. So let's take a recap. I think the guy was capping so much. That's why we needed a recap.

It was so much cap going on. I don't even know where to start. So you're saying he lied this whole interview that we just did. The whole interview is a lie. Put the pole up right now. Yo, man. Yo, God. I'm saying, I'm trying to... I'm trying to... whole interview that we just did. The whole interview was a lot. Put the pole up right now. Pause. I'm saying, I'm trying to I'm trying to

My bad. You're right. I'm being unprofessional. My bad. We said we... My bad. Yeah, let's be professional. So, since we're professional right now, we don't have to say pause, but check it out. He was lying about 95% to 92%.

95%? Do you think that whole interview was a lie, 95% of it? Give me two lies. Give me two. Okay. The first thing, when I asked him about did the molestation go on, he never even answered it. He covered

everything he did with an accomplishment. Everywhere there was brokenness, he put accomplishment there. What do you think? Well, I want to know your second point. And then when he said he jumped in the pool, that was he jumped in the pool

after he shot the gun and then he came back and said he called 911. It was just a lot. It was so many, you could just go down the list. I will say this part though. My nigga, so the people, and no disrespect because somebody actually died or got hurt, but he said it was almost movie like that. The person who did it, his friends dragged him to him and gave him a gun and said, finish him.

This is the person who did this and you finish him. To his sister. To his sister. And he said he couldn't do it because he's not a killer. Then in another interview with Vlad, he said that he was talking with Michael Jordan, and pretty much Mike said, you're a better person than him. Right. I just thought that was kind of dramatic. Not saying it's not true. I don't know.

And especially the situations with his sister. That was pretty bad, but it looked like he had a drink. It looked like he had a drink for a game or two or three. He smelled like wine, Kool-Aid. Let's see. Or two. Or three. He smell like wine coolers. My man's ready to pop a nigga, too, if need be.

You see, I had a nigga on deck. You ain't going to come up here. Yeah, you won't run in here with that. Nah, you ain't no accidents today, baby. You ain't doing the accident thing. I wanted to, but I couldn't get into it. The nigga said he shot a nigga like this. He said he did. He passed like this. He said he did. He passed the gun.

He said he wasn't looking. He said, boom, like this. And then he go another line. He said he passed out like seven guns, and on the eighth gun, this the one that went off? He did say that. Do you think he was capping? I think some of the situations weren't making sense.

Like what? So in other words, you know why I fuck with you, Snap Baby? Because you say capping professionally. Some of the situations seem like they weren't making sense. In other words, he was capping. Okay, what situation didn't make sense in your opinion? So there's a couple things. One, when he said that

he immediately jumped in the pool and he was talking about why he did it. I didn't think that made sense. Also, when he was talking about... But not to cut you off because I like that point.

Yeah. Because how you immediately jump in the pool if it's 100 yards away? Yeah, that's a good point. And how did you call 9-1-1 and jump in the pool? Which one, champ?

And he said he didn't remember that, but you don't remember running 100 yards, jumping in an indoor pool? And y'all asked, you guys said in court, so you just forgot certain stuff. And he's like, well, I didn't forget it, but that didn't really make sense. But that's what trauma does to you.

That's another thing he was capping about. The trauma makes you remember only certain things. Come on, we from the trauma capital of the world. That's another thing he was capping about. The trauma makes you remember only certain things. Come on, we from the trauma capital of the world. That's a fact. What else? I want to hear more of your opinions. So I do have to add another part that he did say with the whole St. John's things. He touched on it, but he didn't finish

his explanation when he said that his daughter spoke up against his honor. That was another one. He didn't go back to it. If you raised your kids. What part are you talking about? Because I want to know what y'all are talking about. Right. So basically he was being honored by St. John's and his daughters actually came out and said that he doesn't need to be honored because growing up he never took care of us.

They wrote a letter. They wrote a letter and it was in print. And for those who are watching, that did happen. You can search it up. Yeah. He touched on it, stopped. And then he went into his accomplishments. And basically he's going to go into it, but he went into something

else and went into his accomplishments in his training facility. So I did, you know, I let him continue, but there were some things that was like... Did you catch anything else? I mean, obviously there is the Michael Jordan part as well. What part about Michael Jordan? Basically he was saying that he credited him. Killer, that was super cat. Basically, he was saying that he credited him. Killer, that was super cat. I mean, obviously, I don't know Michael Jordan,

but I could not see him going and saying that real quick, whispering in the ear, and then going to play the game. Like, that didn't really make sense. I don't really see that coming from him. He said Mike walked up to him the first time he ever met him and said, you're going to have a great career. Yeah. As a rookie.

I could not see that. And I feel like if he said that. I was waiting for something. First of all, I'm going to keep it 100. We never hear Mike giving nobody no motherfucking props. Mike's just just freaking out. Scott is still waiting on his credit.

Yeah, he disses everybody. And then he said Mike said that from a rookie. That was great. What else you catch? So my last thing was just like the fights off the court. He was elaborating a little bit on that. You did ask him to touch up on it. He gave you the story of Larry Bird and other people,

but he didn't really get into it. He's a spin king. He's a spin king. He's a spin king. When you start asking about one thing, he spin his way out and start talking about other shit. What else he said that was crazy? I thought your story was sincere, man.

I appreciate you coming through. Murder and stack out of opinions, man. I'm going to keep it 100. I'm going to keep it 100. I'm going to keep it 100. They dragged the niggas to your brother. I'm not saying that happened. It was a little traumatic. But I will add, you know, and no disrespect to him.

We really appreciate you coming out on the show. Thank you so much. And speaking out with us, definitely heard your story and wanted to hear what you had to say. But, you know, people are going to say a little bit of things. We felt some type of way about some type of things. We're not saying that what you said isn't true. We've got to clarify that.

We're not saying that what he said was not true. Mace said shit ain't true. Mace did say it. Mace said cap. Mace said cap. I said it while he was here, though, but we couldn't get into all the cap that he was doing because he was capping too fast.

What I think is he knows that he's going to be questioned about this. This was 20 years ago and he got that shit damn packed to know how to spin off and go here, go whatever, but I think he does regret what happened. I think he does. I think he really does. And listen, if you're really trying to move

on, you start with the truth. That's where you move on from. You're not really going to be able to move on until you start with the truth. That's where you move on from. You're not really going to be able to move on until you address the real truth. But this is the thing. See, let me tell you something, and I'm going to be totally honest with you. I'm not supporting what he did, but when niggas panic, you're like, oh, I shot a nigga. Yo, help me do this. Help me do that. So your brain is just all over the place if you're not that type of nigga. So I'm not supporting what he did, but I get that the nigga panicked and tried to do all that.

But elaborating what you just said. Rob Markman, Yeah. When you come back to us, tell us the truth. Rob Markman, Yeah, but no, no. What I'm about to tell you is absolutely right. But what I was saying is, it started a lie. The whole shit. Once it start a lie, the fucking year, it just don't stop.

Rob Markman, The lie mobile. Yeah, and he was going downhill in the lie mobile. Yeah, my nigga. And the speed just got faster. Yeah, like, you know, the shit. After he shot the guy, the very first thing was start playing in the lie. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? So from there, man, it's your choice.

But no, I'm dirty. No from there, man, it's your choice. And then Benoit. Benoit is dirty. No, but on some G shit. Yeah. Do you believe you seen Benjamin Benoit last week? Now we got to have him up here to tell his side. Yeah, let's talk about Benjamin. Yo, Benjamin Benoit. Reach out to us and let us know if you tried to leave with J-Will last week when you seen him.

Or if you seen him. Oh, my goodness. But real talk, yo, it takes a lot of courage to come up here. It does. Because we're tried to leave with J. Will last week when you seen him. Oh, my goodness. But real talk, yo, it takes a lot of courage to come up here. It does. Because we're not going to hold no shots. Yeah. Or pull no punches. So, J. Will, much, much respect. Pardon me, Jason Williams, because J. Will is, he changed his name to J. Will.

So, Jason Williams, we appreciate you. Of course. And again, Jason, we do appreciate you. Although we have our thoughts, we don't want to take away from the main message. There are a lot of mental health issues, especially in the black community. There's no joke there. So if you need resources or need help, please reach out. And also, we want to know you guys' thoughts on social media.

So make sure to go on Twitter, Instagram, hashtag ItIsWhatItIs and share your thoughts. Thank you for watching and stay tuned for the next episode. What you want nigga Everything nigga supersize Two big necks Like when they doing them two for five