IT IS WHAT IT IS - MARK JACKSON DEFENDS KLAY THOMPSON & STEPHEN A SMITH SURPRISES US ON THE SHOW! | S3 EP25

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

Ma$e, Cam’ron & Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson are back with another one!! ***NEW MERCH** Shop the Come And Talk 2 Me Store....https://comeandtalk2me.com  Please rate, review, and follow the podcast for more content.  Support the show and sign up for Underdog Fantasy HERE with promo code CAM and get a $100 first deposit match, and a Special Pick'em pick. Follow the show and our hosts on social media: It Is What It Is, Cam'Ron, Ma$e, and Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson.

Welcome back to It Is What It Is. This episode is sponsored by Underdog Fantasy. The app is an easy way to make some cash just by making picks on your favorite players. Underdog is available in more than 30 states, including California, Florida, Texas, and New York, just to name a few. Make sure to support the show by hitting the link in the bio and downloading the Underdog Fantasy app. They will also match your first deposit up to $100 and you get a special pick when you sign up. I'm Treasure Wilson

aka Stat Baby along with your hosts Mace and Cam. Murder, what up, man? Killer was good, man. You said everything I was good with you. Chillin', man.

They said what you call I was looking for you, man. Oh, who that now? Cam Newton. Time to join the list. There's a lot of niggas looking for me. There's a lot of niggas looking for me. There's a lot of niggas looking for me. I'll tell you something, man.

There's only one person, one entity I was scared when they was looking for me. Who is that? Biggie said it, nigga. The IRS? They made me first. Hey, that knock on wood with dumb niggas, man. They ain't not going to work. The IRS don't be looking for you.

They just shut shit down. The IRS don't not be looking for niggas. They'll just stop everything in the middle of what you got going. Vacation? This shit is a negative four billion, nigga. Nah, it wasn't the nah Russ Biggie said it though only the feds are fed if it ain't them niggas

I don't care who looking for me if it ain't the FBI I don't give a damn DTs, DEA if it is not the FBI or the CIA I don't care who looking for me, man. You heard it here first.

Today, we are joined with our analyst, Mark Jackson. Mark, what's up, Mark? Mark, what's good, bro? Everything good. Good to be back with y'all. Oh, man, we miss you, man. Happy that you're here brother glad you enjoyed your birthday man

oh thank you man I appreciate that thank you so much Mark I appreciate it man next year you gotta come celebrate I'll come celebrate with you we family now no no no

I'm trying to put I'm trying to put a streak together 20 years so that 20 years later I get a staff I don't want to split the outfit. Mark, how you doing? Mark quick on his feet.

I see you at 20. I see Spice Adams. I don't know if you know Spice Adams, the comedian, or like ex-football player, comedian. He's funny. He said, Cam, I just Googled you. You're in your late 40s. I never met you since then. I said, yeah, they putting it together, man.

But yeah, I don't know if we're going to wait 20, Mark. Yeah, people have been doing that all online saying, yo, yo, Maze, it's my 40th birthday. Yeah. I haven't seen you in 38 years. That's a fact, man. But thank you, Mark. I appreciate it. Y'all talk to the money man about that.

There you go right there. Giving out that birthday money. Okay. So we're going to start with the Warriors. Klay Thompson was benched towards the end of the game versus the Nets. Reporters asked him how he felt about not being in the closing lineup, and he said it was very hard. He said, go from, you know, one of the best players, it's hard for anybody. So how do you guys feel about

Klay's adjusted role and then the honesty about how he feels? Mark first. Well, I had the privilege and honor of coaching Klay Thompson, so I'm very familiar with him. He's an absolute pro. He's an incredible worker. He's a great competitor, and he's brutally honest with himself, his expectations of himself and of his team. What I like most is he didn't make any excuses. He owned the fact that he hadn't been playing well,

hadn't been making shots, the type of clip that we're used to him making them. And he's going to hold himself accountable, get in the gym early, stay late, and Klay Thompson will be just fine. I'm sure Steve Kerr is well aware of it because he's had history with him, and they've won championships together. He's well aware of the fact that Klay Thompson will get it right. He's not the type of guy that's just going to surrender. He owned it, hold himself accountable, and he's going to be better. Yeah, I was going to say that second point that you

make, that's a great take on that. I was going to say I really appreciate the fact that he made no excuses because I could think of a lot of different players that would have been in that same position, got fined for blaming it on other people, blaming it on the refs if the refs was doing this. And I like the fact also that he didn't blame it on even Steve Kerr. He owned it. And like you said, he's working on his game, hopefully, and getting those things right so he could be back out there being the Klay Thompson that all of us know, because that was one of my favorite players on Golden State other than Steph. And in the West Coast, I remember I used to have him right behind Kobe.

So I'm really looking forward to him returning to real form. You sound mad political like Mark down, man. I'm looking forward to him complaining in real form. I'm looking forward to a real form this time because he's one of my statistical favorites. Not you, Mark. We know that's really you. This nigga, he's running late.

He might be on that blue bird. Listen, man, on some G shit, Clay, you've been playing like shit. I like Clay, too. You've been fucking up all year. It got to hurt Steve Kerr more to do this. Because now it's like this. Now you fucking with my job. Because niggas going to think I'm showing favoritism if I continue to let this shit go on and on and on and on.

We've been letting you play. We halfway through the season, and you are not doing what we expect you to do. Now I'm going to look biased if I don't make a move soon. I don't want to embarrass you, because you my nigga. I fuck with you. But now my character is coming into play.

This is more about, to me, of course it's about Klay Thompson not playing well, being benched. Of course it's no player of his caliber. Like, all jokes aside, what you and Mark were saying is absolutely 100% correct. I know it hurts him a lot because he is one of them players. He's one of them niggas that you could tell he wears his pride on his sleeve.

You know? So I was just teasing before that. But at the end of the day, everybody has a job to do. And if Steve Kerr doesn't make a decision soon, it's going to look like he's being biased to a certain players. And then other players that haven't been there as long are particular run, you're going to look like you're being biased for the players that won you the championships as you should to a limit. Right now, today, Golden State is not even in the playing. They're in the 11th place.

So if the playoffs start today, they're not even eligible to be in the playing. When is it going to be somebody else's fault outside of the players? So Steve Kerr is like, yo, I mean, not Paul, I mean, when is it going to be the players' fault? Steve

Kerr has to make a decision, and we kept saying, go to State to get it together. They'll get it together. Oh, they're going to get it together. When are they going to get it together? It's February. Okay, you want to switch gears? Let's switch gears. Let's not be political.

I prefer it like that, you know? Yeah, when you think about it, how this nigga going to be in the locker room talking about he own it, but keep playing bad? Yeah, and who's going to say? And if Steve Kerr doesn't say something, the whispers start. Yeah. Amongst players. Then the next thing is, you don't have the GM there that was there from the beginning.

Yeah. And that's why I respect the GM that just left. I'm sorry, I can't think of his name. That's why he got out of there. Bob Myers. Pause. Remember we said that's why Bob was getting out of there. That's why I fuck with Bob.

Bob said, I know it. Bob's seen the shit. Bob said, I do not want to be that nigga to have to say I got to trade Clay Thompson if we want to keep the Golden State Warriors afloat or Draymond Green or anybody else eligible besides Steph Curry. Who traded Jordan Poole? Was that Bob or the guy after him? Who was that, Mark?

Was it the new nigga? I thought that was Bob. Yeah. Bob, see? Bob said, this? Was it the new nigga? No, that was Bob. Bob said this is what they want? Pause. I'm out of here. They want to get rid of pool? I'm out of here. Yeah, because he says, I can't keep doing this. This is the future. This is the future.

Y'all had me to get rid of Gary Payton the second, and now on the pool. They didn't get rid of him. They didn't pay him extra. His contract was up. They ended up getting him back. But he's back with them now. He's back with them niggas. I like that he ended up coming back. You know what I'm saying? That's when Bob was like, I gotta get

out of here. Y'all busting funny moves. But I will say this as far as Klay Thompson. Klay Thompson is an all-time great player, an all-time great shooting guard. And the reason why is not only because of the shooting. At Klay Thompson is an all-time great player, an all-time great shooting guard. And the reason why is not only because of the shooting. At Klay Thompson's best, he impacted the game as an elite defender,

being the primary defender on point guards, eliminating their impact on the offensive end. And I think Klay Thompson has to get back to that. He's relying solely on making or missing shots. He's too good to rely on that. You make it tough for Steve Kerr to take you out when you get rebounds, when you defend, when you do the other things on the floor. Hey, Mark, what was the nigga name that played with Derek Harper in Dallas?

The shooting guard. Rolando Blackman? Yeah, I'm not going to the park putting Rolando Blackman on my team because he was nice back in the days. We're trying to win right now, Mark. I gotta agree with him, man. We're trying to win right now, man. That nigga's an all-time great. Rolando Blackman, man.

I was going to say the same thing. Are you saying you got a problem with Klay Thompson as a player today? I'm saying Clyde Drexler, Sean Kemp. We can go down a list of all great niggas. But if I'm trying to win a day, it's about what you've done for Pauls lately, Mark. You know this? No, no, no.

No, no, no. I disagree with that. Because if you look historically, Klay Thompson has had bad runs shooting the basketball. Steve Kerr and the Golden State Warriors benefited from sticking with him. He could have let go of the rope at that time. So I think that Klay Thompson still has plenty left in the tank. And if I'm a team, if you as Warriors don't believe that he has plenty more in the tank, I'm trying to steal him.

Trade him to me. I believe that he's still an impactful player. Mark, how old is Klay? We've just impactful player. Mark, how old is Klay? We've just been, you know, how old is Klay? Around what, 38? I'm not sure. He's at 38. No, no, he's not 38.

He's at 38. How old is Klay? He's 33. Klay's 33. Steph's 35. Yeah, I mean, when you start, Steph, you can get away with it in 20s. You can't get away with it in the 30s.

The difference maker is that ability to shoot the basketball. When you shoot the basketball at a high clip like that, you can still be impactful. He's just having a tough stretch. I still believe in Klay Thompson. We will revisit this. Yeah, okay. Well, what I'll say is this, Mark, and I totally agree with you.

Klay was a great, and we keep saying with you Clay was a great and we keep saying was you know that's the word that we keep leaving out if the nigga is young why you keep saying

was that's a real good question that's a good question Cam they paid me to tell the truth Cam

you came up here for a little I brought you back outside this whole episode I brought you back outside Mark had me I brought you back outside I don't know what you came in here on

nigga I'm glad you're back nigga we keep using the word was when it comes to Clay Thompson you just said it Mark you know Clay was Clay was not Clay is that's why I thought he was 38 y'all kept saying was don't say y'all. Mark said it because we

know Mark a politician. The two politicians on the show. And what I would say is this. I'm in totally agreeance with Mark saying that Klay Thompson was a great defensive player. He's a great two-way player. Offensive and defensive. Was, Cam.

Bro. You just said was like Mark. Yeah, I understand what you're saying. I didn't interrupt you when you was talking. I let you say all that nonsense. You tried to come back with your black Air Ones on and go crazy. I didn't interrupt you one time.

I didn't, I never, y'all two came in on the Klay Thompson boat. I told me to say was. I'm the only one who was saying, I wasn't feeling what Klay Thompson was doing I just refocused my energy on Steve Kerr that's what I was saying it's tough for Steve

Kerr listen you know they won championships together they've been together for a good amount of time going on maybe close to 10 years if not 10 years but you have to realize like imagine that talk that's almost worse than Doc Rivers telling his son he got to train him. It's that type of shit.

Like, yo, I got to bench you. Because you know what? Shout out to Zip with the drip, my man on the gram. Because he said, we was talking about how Doc Rivers, it was hard for Doc Rivers having to trade his son. And Zip reminded me, he hit me on the gram. He said, killer killer man fuck all that you ain't gonna talk about how he gave his son 35 million when he ain't deserved 35 million

he gave him 35 albums killer you know damn well he ain't deserved 35 for the three years I said yeah that's true I ain't even bringing that part up you They'll give you 35. So when I got to trade you, don't act like I ain't give you 35. But what I was saying is, to my point, to what Mark Jackson was saying is that he was a great, and I know I'm saying was because I'm getting to my point. He was a great two-way player, and that's what made Klay Thompson special. You shoot the three, great, great addition with Steph Curry. Of course, we call him the Splash Brothers,

but the rebounds and the defense is what put him over the top being a two-way player. And I believe because of his injuries, he can't be the two-way player that he used to be. I'm not a doctor, but I've seen this on several different shows. We actually never talked about it. I don't know if it's the achilles injury or the other the acl injury where they say you can't move laterally like you used to

once you get those type of injuries one or the other i don't remember which one it was but it's affected him moving side to side they're saying and because of those injuries he may never get back to being the two-way player that he once was. I hear you back there, Mark. I hear you. You got something to say? No, no. You're absolutely right. I don't have to be a doctor to tell you he's not going to get back to that level as a defender. He was the primary,

he was the defensive stopper for Team USA. They put him on the best team's perimeter player. So he's not going to get back to that. It has something to do with the injuries, but it also has something to do with all the miles that he's played. They played a lot of, you know, postseason basketball on their way to winning, you know, four championships. So that has taken its toll.

But he can be a good defender on the right person and he can be a very good offensive guy and a great, great shooter. So I believe he still is a very impactful player. Mark, he didn't play more. He don't got more mouths than LeBron James, all right? LeBron James got mouths. We talk about mouths? Mouths, nigga. Still killing.

Talk about mouths. Putting up dirty. Yes, killing out there. Mouths on top of mouths. Ten straight championships. Mouth killing out there. Miles on top of miles. 10 straight championships. Miles on top of miles on top of miles. I'm going to say

you're the best. We Mark Jackson 2024. We should definitely elect this guy for the president. But I get it. He's close to your heart. He's close to home.

This situation is close to home for more. We got to realize this is close to home. So at the end of the day, I get it. But still. Hold on. I'm from New York City. I'm going to tell the truth.

Okay. Okay. Say no more. If it's close to home, I'm still going to tell the truth. I believe we will revisit the point of how impactful Klay Thompson is, whether it be for the Warriors or, unfortunately, if they trade him somewhere, I believe he still has plenty in the tank to be an impactful player. of how impactful Klay Thompson is, whether it be for the Warriors, or unfortunately if they trade him somewhere,

I believe he still has plenty in the tank to be an impactful player. That wasn't my argument. That's your amazing argument. My argument is he's not going to be the two-way player that he used to be because of the injuries that he suffered. Because you were saying that he was a good defensive player, and I was like, he's never going to get back to that, being a defensive player. Will he be a key piece to somebody's team?

He can shoot. Look, right now, with Klay Thompson not even doing well, he's averaging 17 points. He's shooting 37% from the field at 41,

from three-point range at 41% from the field. That's not bad. That's not terrible. With people who's doing worse, it's just for Klay Thompson, that's not good. Yeah, people who's doing worse. It's just for Klay Thompson, that's not good. Yeah, and if they're in 11th seed right now,

if they're in 11th place, they can't keep this as is, going from a dynasty to not even making the playoffs. I don't know why we even talking about that. It's something to talk about. It's definitely something to talk about. They're then their dynasty or they are part of a dynasty so when you watch a dynasty go down or not be where they used to be it has to be discussed yeah okay so before we go on to the next subject so in that interview clay thompson was visibly upset so draymond interjected and he

said i didn't close game five of the finals. Who the heck cares? So do you guys approve of the way Draymond handled the situation and kind of stuck up for Clay in the locker room? Mark? I totally respect it. And that's who Draymond Green is. He sensed it getting a little hot in the locker room. He sensed the tone of the questioning. And he also is well aware of the frustration that Klay Thompson was experienced due to the fact that he didn't close out the game. So he took the hit and he was bold enough. And that's what leaders do.

He spoke out and spoke loud. And I like the fact that he didn't just point to Klay. He went back historically and talked about him not playing in game five and how championship teams and the championship culture responds. Because you say you want to win, but do you want to win on your terms or do you really want to win?

Winning on your terms is being selfish and frustrated and upset and pointing the finger to the coach. Winning on the terms of a team, a championship caliber team and a culture is saying, you know what? I shouldn't have been in the game down the stretch. I own that. I'm going to be better. And J.

Mon Green, you know, for lack of a better term, took the hit and acknowledging Clay Thompson and his impact. That's that's that's a strong statement, Mark. I think you need to post that. People need to hear that for real. Do you want to win on your terms? Because that that goes for life, period. There's a lot of people that want to win,

but they want to win different ways. So that's a great point, winning on your terms. Appreciate it. What did he mean by close out game five? Is that what Clay did? Did he close out game five? No. In the championship series,

Draymond Green was benched down the stretch game five. Yeah. And he could have been frustrated. Yep. Yeah. And to his credit, even then, he was frustrated, but he understood the move and he came back better. Draymond part of that crew.

Steph Curry. Clay Thompson, Draymond Green, I don't know, Andre Iquodala probably running around there somewhere with a job.

I don't know for sure or not, but that's their little four-man crew. So he's going to have Clay Thompson's back and what happens is this.

I don't, and Draymond, that's just Draymond. He going to say what he want to say. He going to do what he want to do. Draymond threatening to retire because he slappedmond. He going to say what he going to say. He going to do what he want to do. Draymond threatening to retire

because he slapped a nigga. So, you know, at the end of the day, that's, that's just the type of nigga Draymond is. And I, and I fuck with him for that.

But, we just talked, this is what I was explaining to Mace just now, is that you're a dynasty. It's almost like this, yo. When you're a dynasty

or just as good as six championships in however many years, ten, nine years, went to six championships, went four, it's almost like you're the quarterback, all-star or pro bowl quarterback for an NFL team.

When you win, you get the praise. When Tom Brady wins, he gets the praise. When Aaron Rodgers wins, he gets the praise. When you don't win, you get the praise. When Tom Brady wins, he gets the praise. When Aaron Rodgers wins, he gets the praise. When you don't win, you get the blame. That's just the way it goes

when you're a super, super, superstar. And we're talking about a team that's been not just one player, three All-Stars, multiple All-Stars, different times. So when you're not winning, you're going to get the blame and you can't get an attitude about it

when people question you. You got to think about it. How tough it is for, what's my name, Monty Williams up there in Detroit? That's his name. Yeah. How tough is it for him to go to the podium every night?

Every night. And you got to make up some shit because these niggas will not win a basketball game. Trust the process. Yeah. Every night you got to sit there. We almost had him tonight, fellas. As you can see, we're this far away from getting something together and it's coming to a long spot. We're this far away from getting something together and it's coming to a lost spot.

Every night you got to make up some wild shit to explain why you lost 19 games in a row. So if he got to do that, and I'm just going off about what they looking like. We don't know the record, but let's just say the way it's going, it's looking like you got to do that for, what's the math on it? 82 games

a year? 78 games. 73 games this year, you're going to have to do that because they may win nine games. I'm going to give them nine games. He got to go to the podium 73 times this year and lie about how close

they're a piece away because he doesn't make an 80 million, whatever fucking ridiculous amount of money they gave him, which I think he deserved. I think he did a great job in Phoenix. And it was just an unfortunate situation even before that when he's assistant coaching. But yeah, you're going to get the blame when you're the all-stars

or people are going to question you. And then when you're used to winning the blame when you're the all-stars. People are going to question you. And then when you're used to winning and going in them locker rooms and especially Golden State, you got to think about this. After Kevin Durant left, a lot of people counted them out. They come back win the championship. Yeah, I told you so, nigga. I told you. Y'all thought it was over. You thought it was over.

So y'all get the thought in people's face. And when you don't do good, people are going to bring it back to you. So to Draymond's credit, he got the answers answers he know what to say uh he's a great leader but those questions are going to be coming soon if we don't see a change in the golden state warriors yeah and i i want to correct what i said because what i meant to say was that um we shouldn't he shouldn't be talking about it not that we shouldn't be talking about it. Not that we shouldn't be talking about it, but because when you're in 11th place, you can't expect somebody to have patience with you

if you're a championship dynasty. This is like if the Lakers are out of the playoffs. This culture is now championship or bus. I don't think you get any credit as Golden State for making it to the semifinals or to the Western Conference Championship and just losing. That's not their

goal. Not with this team anyway. You know, it isn't like when the Bulls split up and Scottie was going and Mike was going, you got a rebuilding situation. You're used to this core guy's winning and we're just so blessed enough to have the person who

put it together on the show with us. So, Mark, you helped put this shit together when that shit ain't going right. That's what they gonna have to deal with, big dog. That's how it go, champ. You part of the ingredients. You put the sprinkles

to all that shit to season, the adobo, cooked up a marvelous plate. Now niggas left that shit in the refrigerator too long like Thanksgiving dinner, and niggas may not want to eat it, man. This may be the Tuesday after Thanksgiving. We do not know, man. We don't know yet. I hope it ain't.

Nigga don't want to keep eating that. But it might be the Tuesday or Wednesday after know, man. We don't know yet. I hope it ain't. Nigga don't want to keep eating that. But it might be the Tuesday or Wednesday after Thanksgiving, man. It is what it is. Okay. So let's discuss All-Star real quick. Trae Young and Scottie Barnes are injury replacements for Julius Randall and Joel Embiid in the All-Star game. Do you think that they are both good replacements?

Mark first. I think very good replacements. Trey Young, you can make the case, should have been in the first 12 that was selected. When you look at his numbers overall, awfully impressive. The disappointing part and probably the reason why he wasn't on the first group is because as a team they've underachieved. why he wasn't on the first group is because there's a team they've underachieved. Scottie Barnes is having a spectacular year.

I think you can make the case for Christoph Porzingis to have been added. Other than that, it gets very interesting. But those two guys, certainly very deserving. And those are tough decisions to make.

Mark, do you really think... when I think about Trey Young who who would you have put him over pause no I I didn't say I would have I could I could have understood when you put up the type of numbers he's put up he's had an incredible start to his career and an incredible season once again. He's not just scoring at a high clip. He's facilitating, assisting, making plays. They're just unachieving as a team right now. This is true. Yeah, I'm sorry, Myrtle.

I thought you had a question. Yeah, I totally agree with you. I don't know about what much Scotty Barnes has been doing. I could sit here and just lie and look at his numbers and tell you, yeah, but I'm not going to say a lie and act like I've been keeping up with Scotty Barnes. He's like almost a replica of Draymond a little bit. I don't really give a fuck, to be honest, to the niggas. Dude, better as a team.

I'm going with Mark. Niggas is in 12th place. I'm not going to be looking at 12th place. I got a show to do. I'm not trying to be in 12th place. I wouldn't want you to watch me if we was in 12th place. We don't do 12th place.

Never have. Did you watch them? I said, no, I ain't watch that game. Yeah. Don't watch that. We ain't got time for that. As far as Marcus said, 100% agree with Mark. He's right that Atlanta as a team is underachieving.

As far as fucking Trey Young, he's averaging 27.3 points a game. He's averaging over 10 assists, so he's averaging a double-double. He's shooting 43% from the field, 43.5. He's having an outstanding year. It's just that Atlanta is not having an outstanding year. So I don't even have an argument with Mark about that. For Scottie Barnes, I don't know too much about him this year,

but 100%, absolutely, what Mark Jackson said. 27 points, 10 points, 11 assists. So he's averaging 27-11 on 43, 44% shoot. Yeah, he definitely supposed to be on that team. Yeah, you got to think about it. He's averaging more than all the point guards that's playing in the All-Star game. It's just that Mark said it right. At the later, isn't doing good.

Him and Murray don't mesh well, I don't think. And more assists. He's having 11 assists. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 11 assists, man. So let me ask you this, though, Mark, being that we're on All-Star topic, let me ask you this.

How do you feel about nobody from Sacramento making the All-Star team? It's tough. Again, these are not easy decisions. And when you put the fan vote, the coaches vote, the players vote. It's tough. But both of those guys, you can make the case, deserve to be in Indianapolis representing the Western Conference for the All-Star.

I believe Sabonis with, I believe, 15 triple doubles already this year. De'Aaron Fox having another spectacular season. It's just 12 guys to select from. You're going to year in and year out leave guys that's worthy of being a participant in the All-Star Game off the ballot. So it's tough decisions, but those two guys certainly deserve the right to be wearing that jersey. Also—

Hold on, hold on. So—sorry, Seth. No, you're good. So Jamal Murray's not in the All-Star Game. Nobody from Sacramento's in the All-Star game. Nobody from Sacramento's in the All-Star game. Denver's in fourth place. Sacramento is in fifth place. And we got two Lakers, who's in ninth place.

Now, we know we're not leaving LeBron off the All-Star game. But Anthony Davis, don't you think we should give up one of his spots for one? At least Jamal Murray or somebody on the Sacramento Kings. Anthony Davis was one of the guys that was voting in the All-Star game as a starter. He's having an outstanding season. So the fans voted him in? Yeah, the fans, the players, and the coaches, they put those votes together and whatever the percentage is,

and they come up with the starters. But Anthony Davis, I have no problem with him being an all-star. He's having an incredible year when you look at his numbers across the board. They're a nice place. We just had this argument about Trey Young. He's having an outstanding year. His year is very outstanding. But if somebody wasn't hurt, he would not be in.

So if he's having an outstanding year and his team isn't doing good and Anthony Davis is having an outstanding year and his team isn't doing good, we need to figure out a new system. Well, I agree. One thing I got a problem with is, you know, this year we see first-place teams with one or two players. Other years we see a first-place team, you're making a case for three or four of their guys.

That's why I specifically pointed out Christoph Porzingis, the job he's doing with that Boston Celtics team being top on the Eastern Conference, I believe that they deserve three guys on the All-Star team. Gotcha. And then also on the subject of All-Star, we talked about it briefly up here, but Mark, I

wanted to get your opinion. How do you feel about Doc Rivers being the coach for the East? God, say some bullshit, man. God, God, I wish you wouldn't say... God, God, man, I wish you wouldn't say he's supposed to be the... God, bullshit, man. Yeah, yeah. It's tough. It's tough. You gotta say it's tough. I wish you wouldn't say he's supposed to be the... Yeah. Yeah, man.

You gotta say something. He's supposed to be up there. Well, you gotta understand. Yeah. It's tough. Yeah. Yeah. No, what I will say is this.

It's not Dr. D's fault. So what's he say? It's not his fault. He shouldn't be the coach of the Eastern Conference All-Star team. He's not Dr. Eason. So what's he saying? It's not his fault. He shouldn't be the coach of the Eastern Conference All-Star team. He shouldn't be. And I'm sure that Dr. Eason

will be the first to tell you that he should not be the coach of the Eastern Conference All-Stars. But that's the way it is. I believe he talked about giving his check for the job of coaching

the Eastern Conference to Adrian Griffin, who was deserving of it. Unfortunately, it's a tough situation. But no, Dr. Eason should not be the coach of the Eastern Conference to Adrian Griffin, who is deserving of it. Unfortunately, it's a tough situation. But no, Doc Rivers should not be the coach of the Eastern Conference, but that's the way the rules are. Mark, if he can give him the check and the ring, why can't he give him the coaching day?

Because it's a business. As a commissioner, Adam Silver, I'm not having Adrian Griffin coach the Eastern Conference All-Stars during All-Star weekend when he's not a coach in this league. He got fired, unfortunately, and that's the way it goes. I agree with that part, but what I would say is

this. Why not Tibber, though? And then, what is this thing now? Coaches can't coach back-to-back in the All-Star game. Why not the homeboy from Boston? Like, oh, he can't coach again. He coached last year. Listen, man, it is coaches busting their ass.

And I totally agree with you as far as the coaches that just got fired 100% agree with you. Look, that's messy. You don't even got a job and you're coaching the All-Star game. So I get it. But it's been coaches that have been busting their ass since October,

even September, preseason, training camp, trying to get their team to where they're at right now. I don't know how this worked, Adam Silver. And listen, we just gave Adam Silver so much praise yesterday talking about his extension, and we think he's a player's coach and he does a good job. I don't know how they they dropping the ball on this. You got the Knicks doing a decent job, outstanding job. You got Boston who's in first place in the whole league.

And I know they saying, oh, you can't coach two all-star games back to back. You have Cleveland who's doing a great, it is several teams that are doing great in the Eastern Conference to where Doc Rivers absolutely should not be coaching this game. Absolutely not. And if I was him, and listen, if I was him, me personally, what I would do is this. I would turn it down. I would

tell him, look, I have a job to do. I'm just getting in Milwaukee. I have my team to get ready. I have to move my family. We need to get our game planned together. This gives me a weekend to get my feet wet in Milwaukee and get ready

for a postseason run and make a championship run. I appreciate the offer, but I'm going to have to pass it down to the next person who's available. That's just me.

And if I'm the question, I'm like, who do you think you're talking to? Your team is on vacation. Your main guys, two of your main guys are going to be in Indianapolis. Right. your main guys are going to be in Indianapolis.

Right. The other guys are going to be at their home. So nobody works out during the course of the all-star break. So who do you think you're fooling? You're going to be on the golf course, Doc. No. You're not telling the truth. But I will say this.

You look at today, if we picked the all-star coach at Eastern Conference, it wouldn't be Joe Mazzulla of Boston. Today, the number two seed goes to Cleveland. That would be J.B. Bickerstaff instead of Milwaukee Bucks. So if we push the date back, you'd have a different answer today as the head coach of the Eastern Conference all-stars, and that would be J.B. Bickerstaff and the job he's doing in Cleveland.

It's a tough situation, and Doc touched on it. He's not pleased with it, but he has to go and do the job. Let me answer your question, Mark, before we move on, unless Mace has something to say. It isn't about if my players are in Cleveland. I need schemes to get together.

I need to focus on our defense. I need to see our offensive schemes. Excuse me, Mr. Silver, let me explain something to you. When Michael Jordan lost when he came back in 1994 or 95, that was, he grabbed everybody up. Soon as the season ended, Scotty Pippen, Dennis Rodman, the rest of the crew in the summertime, and they practiced until the season came about.

I'm not going to sit there and say they did it three, four times a week, but he rounded people up in offseason, and that's my mentality. This isn't about an all-star. This is about a championship. And I'm on the clock. Yeah, you Adam Silver. You know Mark. Okay, this is Mark Jackson talking.

I took off my Adam Silver. I took off my Adam Silver. I am my bad. I am my bad. Let me explain this to you. If Michael Jordan never gathered that group together in the offseason after that year, they would have still beat my team the following year because that was Mike.

That was Scott. Oh, that one hurt. Oh, that one hurt right there. That was personal. It wasn't an extra workout that they got done. That was a bad man. Okay. We had no answer.

Gotcha. All right. All right. Okay. out that they got done it was that that was a bad man okay we had no answer gotcha all right okay and before we go to break so right now there's a big running debate on the validity of wilt chamberlain's 100 point game the discussion starts with the user saying we got footage of 1914 babe ruth but not of Will in 1962. So why do you think people are starting to doubt it now? And then, Mark, have you seen this going on, the discussions? I have seen it going on. I have an older brother that still, to this day,

does not believe that Will Chamberlain scored 100 points. So I argue with him all the time. He's delusional. There were 1,500 people in attendance, I believe. There's no footage of the game because it wasn't on. It wasn't televised. I know a person personally in Al Adams, the great Golden State Warrior player and coach, former coach that won a championship with the Warriors that was in that game as a player that talked about it to me when I was playing with the Warriors. And so I know firsthand that it truly did happen.

And we can't disrespect the greatness of Will Chamberlain and his impact on all of us. I believe with young people they don't believe anything they don't see but realistically we didn't have Twitter and all this

back in the days so that's just a firm a firm conclusion right there there's a lot of things that you're not gonna see

because we didn't have the technology to do it not we but they didn't this is Babe Rufin Will Chamberlain Babe Rufin damn this ain't even have the technology to do it. Not we, but they didn't. Is Babe Ruth in Wilt Chamberlain? Babe Ruth. Damn, this shit ain't even

racist. Wild racist. Babe Ruth is beloved. They got candy bar. You ever ate a Wilt Chamberlain poor's candy bar, nigga? Reggie Jackson. I'm going to go get me a Wilt Chamberlain.

No, no. Babe Ruth is beloved. It's starting to fade out now. It's over getting on 100 years. He's beloved. They love him. Nobody could fuck with Babe Ruth when I was young and all this other shit. Even when Hank Aaron came and did his thing and Jackie Robinson and so on and so forth.

The cameras is going to be on Babe. They wanted him to do spectacular shit, as opposed to maybe Will Chamberlain. I know I'm speculating here. I don't even think my mother was born yet. But at the end of the day, they're like, man, we ain't going to make this nigga pause bigger than Babe Ruth. You know what I'm saying?

Fuck, we look like making this big, gigantic, tall nigga better than our beloved Babe Ruth. Yeah, he already had 10,000 women. Yeah, yeah, and you know what? Bury the footage if it is some footage. Bury the shit. They not going to talk about how Babe Ruth wasn't even playing against black players. Shit,

it's racist. That's all it brought him to. They ain't no Will. Yeah, so there was no footage of Will with the 100-point game. It's footage of Babeilt with the 100-point game. It's footage of Bay Roof, you saying, doing whatever he did. And it's not even hard. That's when we was Jigaboos.

That's when it was all type of nicknames for niggas. See, the young black people don't know the nickname Choco Paquette. They used to call us on Moulin Anis. You don't even... They just dancing like this. Yeah, black niggas with a black face and makeup. We were some other shit in that era. You know what I'm saying? If you ever watched that movie,

you watched that movie with the spaceships and all that, with the black females who worked in... Hidden Figures? Hidden Figures. Great, great movie. Hidden Figures. Taraji did that thing. The rest of the crew did. They did. That's in, like, what? males who worked in um hidden figures hidden figures great great movie hidden figures taraji did a thing um the rest of the crew did they say that's in like what 1950s they couldn't even use the same bathroom they had to go across the fucking uh wherever they was working i used the

bathroom in 1940s and 50s look we're not even 100 years old to where you couldn't even use the same bathroom as white people or eating the same restaurant or do certain, there was a lot of segregation when it came to blacks and whites. So I'm not even shocked that niggas is acting like, Oh, why it ain't no footage. We just talked about this stuff a day. Also,

Mark wasn't on the show. It's white people out there right now talking about we're losing the country. We're losing it. They're taking everything from us. Them motherfucking niggas got everything. They got everything. Them boys got that ass though.

That's what he's talking about. NFL owners. He's talking about the owners in the NFL while we were in like, why there's no black owners? Over Jerry Jones' dead body being a black nigga owning the NFL team majority wise?

Get the fuck out of here. We're losing everything. We don't have anything. They try, the niggas get mad when we come in hockey all type of shit. When we start getting

in their world, think about this, right? Think about this shit. The biggest, the white people now be wanting, even though he's not as good as he used to because a lot of injuries, plus he's getting older, and so on and so forth, but

even the white people, golf players want Tiger to play because they brings more ratings. Yeah. When I see these, like, I wish Tiger would play. Because look, it's black people.

And I'm just being honest. We don't even be watching golf like this. But when Tiger was in his prime, we going to tune in to see what the fuck Tiger doing. Because we like, yeah, Tiger, get the motherfuckers that don't want us in their sport.

Get these niggas, yeah. Kick their fucking ass because they that don't want us in their sport. Get these niggas. Yeah, kick their fucking ass because they don't even want us to play golf. And he was kicking ass and we was rooting for them. It's almost like family feud, to be honest with you. When you see a black family up there against a white family, you root for the black family. It's just the way it is. Don't lie.

You got to be stop. No, no, no. Keep it real. You got to stop. Don't lie You gotta be Stop Keep it real Fuck you gotta stop Damn When you see the Black family up there Against the white

Against the white family You say Let's go Jackson family Let's get it Yo Nick Nick I'm serious You can lie

And act like you don't And then as soon as They say some dumb shit You get embarrassed As a black person, stick your head underneath the covers, because you'll be like, name somebody. Name a man's name that starts with the letter H. And he's like, I got it, Jose.

Just turn the channel. Jose. Never mind. All right, my bad. That was the whole wilt shit for me, my nigga. We do room for everybody black. Never mind. All right, my bad. That was the whole Wilt shit for me, my nigga. They want Tiger to play now because they can beat Tiger. No, that's my point. Now they can beat him.

No, this is what I'm saying. They can beat him, but he still brings ratings. Today, the high ratings. So now they want him to play because they know he can beat him, and now they want people to watch if tigers say my back is hurting i got a leg injury i can't watch the ratings go down even as as an older player so if he's playing and they know they can win yeah they want to play but they know they can win and more eyeballs will be on it so i'm agreeing with you 100%. They think they can win and they want more people to see

them be the black man. That's what it boils down to. Which furthers what you said. Exactly. Now you're here with me. That is my God. That is my God. Now you're there.

That's what I'm saying. Happy Black History Month, y'all we're gonna go to break we will discuss Zach Levine she called this thing about toxic Four years and counting Got you feeling like an option Maybe I'm my own problem, babe She tired of hearing, I don't know What's happenin' to me Won't fall, oh, oh Dealin' with this thing called trust But she really thinkin' about us She wanna be free

Why am I in this woman's way? She wanna be free Hell, I don't wanna see her walk away I wish somebody told me the rules Disagreements, let her win Welcome back Now let's get into our Underdog Fantasy picks of the day Tonight the Warriors will play the Sixers Underdog Fantasy has Tyrese Maxey

At 28.5 points Do you have him higher or lower, Mace? Higher Joel Embiid is out He's going to have to put up buckets If they want to win Tyrese Maxey at 28 and a half points. Do you have him higher or lower? Mace. Higher. Joel Embiid is out. He's going to have to put up buckets if they want to win. Who are they playing? They're playing the Warriors. They benching, niggas.

I'm going to go higher too. They benching, Clay and Steph don't play defense. Okay. Not that much. Okay. Draymond Green is at six and a half assists. Do you have him higher or lower camp? I'm going higher.

Six assists? Six and a half assists. I'm going lower. Did you know, Murda, Draymond Green owns the Golden State Warriors record for triple doubles. Out of all that rich history. I can see that. Out of all that rich history. Because he passes to Seth Curry and Klay Thompson.

Yeah, you're right. He should have more than six then, yeah. That's why I was trying to give a little insight. What dude's called Cam? I was trying to throw you a little something. But Kerr is bugging these days Kurt you know

no pun intended but Kurt like yo not getting it done we sitting him down still good you still can pass the stuff I mean your picture your pick

I was just letting you know he might choke a nigga and get kicked out we don't know you're right yeah you're 100% right never get to 5 assists

you're absolutely right who knows with Draymond these days? Okay. And Klay Thompson is at three and a half rebounds. Do you have him higher or lower? Yo, yo, Z-Mark, they disrespecting Klay Thompson. Every time Underdog Fantasy puts something out,

it's like, do you think he's going to have two fouls? I ain't going to fret. It'd be crazy disrespectful. It'd be mad disrespectful. Clay, come on, man. Get your name back. I'm going with Clay on this. Clay going, yeah, whatever it is, higher.

Thank you. I'm going the whole month. Nah, I'm trying to think, man. Three and a half rebounds. Clay don't really get in there like that. We just was talking about defense. He's not shooting well. Three and a half rebounds. Clay don't really get in there like that, man. We just was talking about defense. He's not shooting well. He better get some rebounds.

What did Mark say? Winning on your own terms or something like that? Mark got a lot of great sayings, man. I don't know which one you're referring to. I'm going to go higher, man. Clay, go get the rebounds, man. Don't make me look bad, man. We're going to go higher. Okay. Clay, go get the rebounds, man. Don't make me look bad, man. We're going to go higher.

Okay. Download the Underdog Fantasy app and you can make your picks too. We are joined back with our analyst, Mark Jackson. So Zach Levine will be undergoing season-ending surgery and the conspiracy is that Zach Levine opted for surgery to avoid being traded. So one, what do you think is next for him

and the Chicago Bulls? Mark first. Well, I don't know if that's true, so I can't speak on it. I know historically we've seen that happen during the course of the history of the NBA. Guys decide to go to surgery rather than being traded off or being benched.

Just was disappointed in the way they were being played. So it's a tough loss for the Chicago Bulls. I think it's a time for them to make a decision whether they're going to, you know, empty the tank and begin an all-out rebuild or whether they're going to patiently wait for Zach Levine to come back and add some pieces so that when he's back healthy and whole next year, they can move forward.

But it's a tough loss when you talk about the way that he creates on the offensive end, can score on bunches, has great size and versatility. Look at Cody White playing much better at that point guard position. DeMar DeRozan having another stellar season. It's a tough loss for them. And the good news is they're still right in the mix for the playing numbers. So

they're good enough to still win enough ball games. And Billy Donovan's a heck of a basketball coach. Don't they still got Lonzo Ball? Yes, who's hurt? Oh, man. You good?

Yeah, I don't talk much about Chicago without Jordan and all that. I ain't mad at you, bro. Zach Levine, we've been waiting for him to blossom. And once they blossom, he has great, decent numbers. But nothing that Zach Levine's done in the NBA outsigns him winning the dunk contest. That's what I know him for. He won the dunk contest. He ain't take niggas to the Eastern Conference Championship.

He ain't been to a championship. I don't know if he's been to the second round. I'm speculating at this point. I know Zach Levine from battling Aaron Gordon in the dunk contest. That's your biggest stat in the NBA. Outside of getting paid all this ridiculous money because Chicago wanted to keep you. Now, look, if I'm Chicago and everybody's healthy, you got Zach Levine, you got Lonzo Ball, DeMar DeRozan. Man, that's a great lineup.

But, you know, they're never healthy, including Zach Levine. He's always getting hurt from time to time. So if I'm management in Chicago, yes, I'm upset because I'm paying these guys,

I'm thinking I'm putting a great team together, and nobody's ever available. Zach Levine is a great player, but I don't think anything he's done in the NBA outshines that fly shit you did in the dunk contest.

It doesn't matter. You haven't taken the team anywhere and they paid you a lot of money. Even like Mark just said, they're thinking about emptying the tank and they just did a new contract with you. Contract you just signed can't be more than two years old. They just bought you back and now they're thinking about trading you.

It's ridiculous. In the Thunders overtime win versus the Raptors this past Sunday, OKC made NBA history by being the first team with five teammates, each recording 20 plus points

and one three-pointer made. So what is you guys' view on OKC as a team, as a whole? Mark first. First of all, that's awful defense to give up those type of numbers across the board against the opposition.

But OKC is well coached by Mark Dagenau. They also, to me, from top to bottom, you can make the case, have the most talent throughout their roster. I don't think they have one guy that you look at and say, well, he's a project. I believe everybody can play quality minutes and impact the ball game from the top to the bottom of their roster. The guy in Shea Gilchrist Alexander, who's having an

incredible season when you look at the impact he's having from that point guard position, reminds me in a weird way of the late, great Pearl Washington. His jump is much better, but the craftiness to get wherever he wants to on the floor, use that body to shield you off of him and create space, he is putting himself in the MVP conversation. And that team is loaded and a dangerous team come play off top. Mark, Pearl Washington, though, Mark. For real, Mark. You know, we from New York, right? That was like

Pearl? Do you know that? That's saying how much I think of this kid because Pearl was absolutely great. As good as it gets. But this guy has a craftiness, an ability to use your body against you, get to his spot, has great size,

underrated strength, and tremendous confidence. So when I look at him in a weird way, that's who jumps out, minus Shea's ability to shoot that mid-range and that three-point shot. Pearl wasn't a shooter like that. He was able to get to where he wanted to on the floor. Killer, that's crazy. Pearl Washington. I don't know. I almost walked off the set

when he said that. Are you saying that is disrespectful to Pearl? Or is it disrespectful? Very, nigga. Very. Mark, he's saying that you disrespecting Pearl.

That's what he said. If Pearl was sitting somewhere, he's saying that you disrespect him, Pearl. That's what he said. If Pearl was sitting somewhere, he going to call Mark. Mark, you know I like you. I love you. You're a brother. Watch your mouth. Watch your tongue. If the late, great Pearl Washington was here with us today,

he would take that as a compliment. You got a point guard average in 30-plus points in the NBA, in the Western Conference, starting for the all-star Western Conference team. That's a heck of a compliment. If you said that, I mean, I think you're not giving Shea enough credit for the type of player he is and the type of future he has promised. player he is and the type of future he has promised. What I'll say about bigger than the game,

you and Mace can argue about that. I'll sit there and listen. Bigger than the game of everybody having 20 on OKC Sunday. It's more about the Minnesota Timberwolves and the Oklahoma City Thunder going back and forth for first and second place at this point in the season. You know, in the beginning of the season, they've been in first and second place for a long, long period of time.

And we kept saying, not even for a long time, in the beginning we said, okay, they're in first place. Minnesota's in first. This is, you know, okay, season's second. Minnesota's in first. OKC's in second. Minnesota's in first. OKC's in second. Oh, they'll catch up. The Lakers are going to get on a run. Phoenix is going to get on a run.

So on and so forth, etc., etc. We are 50 games into the season. They are both 35 and 15 talking about OKC and the Minnesota Timberwolves. We are literally 32 games left from this season being over. And at this particular point, we have the Lakers in ninth place

and the Phoenix Suns are in sixth place. You know, they're seven and three in their last 10 games, the Phoenix Suns. But Oklahoma City and Minnesota have been holding on to the one and two spot as everybody been waiting for them to say, oh, the Lakers are going to make a run, or Golden State's going to make a run, or Phoenix is going to make a run. It looks like they're holding on to these two spots.

Now, what I will say is this. Big shout out to Ty Lue and them niggas at the Clippers, man. They are half a game out of first or second place. It was just maybe two months ago. We was dissing them. We were saying that the James Harden shit is not working out. We were saying who needs to come off the bench.

Russell Wilson, Russell Westbrook said it's going to be me. Ty Lue said give them 10 games. We gave Ty Lue 10 games. And he's turned this thing around to where they are a half a game. That is the Los Angeles Clippers out of second or first place, which is amazing to me, that is the Los Angeles Clippers,

out of second or first place, which is amazing to me, which is really amazing. So shout out to Ty Lue and everybody at the Clippers doing their thing. But to me, the biggest story, bigger than them, everybody out in 20 for the first time in franchise history, is that they're in first place, the Oklahoma City Thunder, and they could be going into first, going into the all-star break in first or second place,

and I think that's very impressive. All right. Moving along before we wrap, the Mavs beat the Nets 119 to 107. Kyrie dropped 36 points. A fan asked Kyrie Courtside, Kyrie, why didn't you play like this when you were on the Nets? He responded, thank Mayor Eric

Adams for that, bro. What did you think of his response? That's the New York energy I was trying to get. That's a tri-state. He from the tri-state. He from the tri-state.

Yeah. He didn't tri-state. He from the tri-state. Yeah. Yeah. He didn't pull no punches. He was waiting to come back to New York City for that punchline. That tells you he was thinking about that one. But Kyrie Irving is a spectacular basketball player, had a spectacular night against the Nets, and proved the point. That's a team in Dallas, when you're talking about Luka's ability

to make plays offensively make plays for other guys and kairi's ability they got tremendous star power uh that's dangerous but you can tell that kairi ervin came in came into brooklyn with a point to prove yeah that was very new yorkish yeah I ain't gonna lie to you, man. I like that shit. I like when he say that shit, man. I ain't gonna lie. I like that shit. Oh, my man!

Oh, man. What's going on, man? What's up? What's up? What are y'all doing? What are y'all doing? I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up.

I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. I pulled up. Our NBA analyst is on right now. So I thought you'd come in and say hello to him as well. Where you at? I'm sorry. On my ears right here? I couldn't hear you. I didn't know.

I didn't know. I didn't know. Yeah, man. Thank you for coming by, man. What up, MJ? What's going on, fam? I miss you, baby. How you doing, man?

Miss you, too. You sneaking up on fellas, man? What's going on? Come on, man. Didn't I always do that to you? Well, you know, man? Miss you, too. You sneaking up on fellas, man? What's going on? Come on, man. Didn't I always do that to you? Well, you know, ain't nothing new. Ain't nothing new with this. How you doing, man?

Cool. Well, listen. Everything's good, man. We was wrapping up, but we're going to extend for a couple questions. Now that we are both here, I got some questions to ask. Oh, yeah. Real quick. Let me ask you this, Mark Jackson.

Stephen A and both of y'all are my big bros. Both Queens. I'm from Harlem. So y'all both from Queens taking care of a Harlem guy. I really, really appreciate it. I asked, and Stephen A came on our show early when he didn't have to. When nobody knew what this show was going to be, it could have been a shot in the dark, and we didn't know we had When nobody knew what this show was going to be,

it could have been a shot in the dark and we didn't know we had lightning in a glass bottle. So I really appreciate you for coming on, Big Bro. I really do. But something he said on the first time he was on the show with us still haunts me and troubles me. Uh-oh. He says, and I want to add,

this is going to you, Mark, that right now at this very moment, this was last season, at this very moment, this was last season, at this very moment, Jason Tatum is better than Larry Bird. What do you have to say to that, Mark Jackson?

I don't recall that. I don't recall that. I don't have any recollection of that. I mean, I didn't say that. A dude in Larry Bird is a three-time champion. I will say this. I will say this. didn't say that. A dude in Larry Bird is a three-time champion. I will say this.

I will say this. I will say this. Here's what I do. In all seriousness, MJ. In all seriousness, this is what I do remember saying. I do remember saying, and I've said this about Bird many times. I'll take Bird almost anybody in the last two minutes. But there's several dudes that I would have taken ahead of him

in the first 46. And when I look at Jason Tatum at 6'9", with his overall skill set as a talent, I think the brother big time. And I think that you can look at him and question him against Bird just on his talent. Resume doesn't even compare. Clutch, almost no one can compare to Bird.

But I do look at dudes and I do compartmentalize from those first 46 minutes, MJ, to the last two. I do. We got the footage. We're not going to argue about it.

We got the footage. So, when we edit tomorrow morning, we not a live show. We not first take. Fix out the first take, baby. Fix out the first take. Number one show in first take, baby. Big shout out to first take. Number one show in sports right now.

But we will edit the footage. Please. I'm here all week. I'll come back in studio just to go. I'm sorry. No, because I like what you're doing on your show. I see you doing it on your show. You got me.

You got me. You got me. We were just talking about, you walked in on some interesting topics. We were just talking about how we, the all-star selections. Yeah. And how nobody on Sacramento is in the all-star game

as opposed to Anthony Davis, of course, LeBron James. I had a problem with that. That's what we're talking about. I thought De'Aaron Fox should have been on there. Okay, that's what we're talking about. You averaging 27. We all know that you elevated your level of play

in the postseason last year, even though that's a separate season. You've been playing this year. You got hurt a little bit, but when you've been in the game, you've been balling. Last year, he was one of the league leaders in clutch points.

We know what he brings to the table. I just thought that he was somebody that was worthy of that level of consideration. And even though Minnesota is the number one seed, I would have taken him instead of Carl Anthony Towns. What about Trey Young? You don't think Trey Young should have been in it? No.

27-11? No. Atlanta Hawks were seven games under.500 until a couple of days ago. They've been a shell of themselves. They can't stop a cold. They haven't played any defense. And as far as I'm concerned, they haven't been relevant since they went to the conference finals two years ago. I've been very disappointed in Atlanta.

I think that Trey Young is an all-star caliber player. But I've seen him play better than he's played this year. He's had great moments this year. He certainly has had a great stretch over the last four or five games, but too much time this season has been spent with him not being what we know he is. And I'm going to hold you accountable for that when I'm thinking about you as an all-star.

All right. And another question I had was, we was talking yesterday. If LeBron was to come to New York and win a ring. Yeah. What about that? I knew you'd get excited about that. See,

all of us as Knicks fans, and I don't claim the Knicks are delusional. You start thinking about the delusional things. And of course, we're fans of yours as far as you being my brother. And Mark, this is a great question for you because we didn't ask you this today

and Mace said this and I said, because I know from Stephen A, Mace, myself, and I'm assuming you, Mark, we never talked about this

since you joined us, that Michael Jordan is our number one player and to me, LeBron James is also my number two player. May say Kobe Bryant. Yeah, Kobe. For me, it's

LeBron. What about you, Mark? What order do you have your top three in? If it's any of these players, it may be Will Chamberlain or somebody else for you. Who do you have in your top three? I got to do some thinking, but number one is Michael Jordan. And that's with great respect

for everybody that's ever played. And I think it's no disrespect to put another guy at two or three or whatever. Michael Jordan is the GOAT, in my opinion. So all four of us are in agreement. Yes. The question was this. If LeBron James comes to New York

and wins the New York Knicks championship, does he go above Michael Jordan? You want that MJ? You want me to grab it first? Both me and May said something on it. We want to see what you guys think about that. I joked about, go ahead,

Mark. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Mark. No, no, no. You go ahead.

I joked about it the other day on first tape with Kendrick Perkins. Like I might have to consider, I might have to consider this. I was joking about it. Yeah. I might have to consider this. I might have to consider this. Oh, you said something about it. I was joking about it. Yeah, I brought up the subject. But in all seriousness, listen, LeBron James is phenomenal, man.

One of the greatest ever. Mount Rushmore, as far as I'm concerned, no doubt about it. And I'd put him ahead of Kobe, even though he has one less ring. Because Kobe's first three rings were with Shaq in his prime. And not only that, you had something to do with disbanding that union. I got to hold you accountable for that.

And so I'm looking at it and I'm saying that Kobe is arguably the number two leg of all time, because there are some that would say magic and you're definitely number two behind Jordan as an off guard. And so I'm looking at it from that standpoint, and that's where I come with him not being at number two. Having said that, I watched Michael Jordan with my own two eyes. I see people respect LeBron James. I saw people fear Michael Jordan. I saw a level of demoralization kick in when going against not marking the Indiana Pacers, not pot rallies New York Knicks, but I've seen Jordan destroy dreams, destroy them. And I look at LeBron James, you've won four chips, you've lost six. And I look at it from that standpoint and you couldn't get it done initially in Cleveland,

which was not really your fault because you didn't have a crew. You go to Miami with D. Wade and Bosh, you deserve props for that. Okay. But that one you won in Golden State, thanks Adam Silver for that stimulus package you gave LeBron James by suspending Draymond Green for that game five. Remember, everybody, you got to contextualize stuff. And Mark will speak to this because he was covering the daggone thing. Draymond Green gets suspended. Cleveland had won that, I'm sorry, Golden State had won that game four in Cleveland.

3-1. And they went up 3-1 and it was en route to Golden State. Draymond gets suspended. That same game, Iguodala and Bogut get hurt. And Steph Curry wasn't 100% that entire series. And then, obviously, they captured momentum in games five and six with Kyrie and LeBron both dropping 40 in one of those games. We saw that in Cleveland game six.

And then, of course, they did their thing in game seven. I'm just saying, I look at it from that perspective and I say to myself, okay, and then after that, you won the title with the lockout short season. None but respect. It's not like I don't discredit your championship. Not because of LeBron, but respectfully,

not questioning the greatness of Anthony Davis, just the durability of Anthony Davis. Because COVID kicked in and that four-month hiatus kicked in, you have to remember what people were saying prior to COVID. They were like, you can talk all that junk now. Anthony Davis can't make it through the season. That's what they kept saying and from that point forward Anthony Davis has averaged 28 missed games a year until this season he was never healthy he was never he didn't he what he didn't come ready he had to get ready

so those things that benefited LeBron is not something that ever benefited MJ. So he can't be the GOAT over MJ when MJ is 6-0 with six NBA Finals MVPs who never allowed the Finals to get to a Game 7 because he destroyed the competition. He cannot be my GOAT at all. LeBron is number two. I got Kareem at number three Mark now this guy is good you ever think about having your own tv show there's a whole lot to unpack there's a whole lot to unpack there. There's a whole lot to unpack. But we're in agreement that Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player

of all time, in my opinion. We can argue. I also double back and say I disagree with Stephen A. I believe Kobe Bryant is the greatest Los Angeles Laker of all time. And that's the guy that grew up watching Magic Johnson and dreaming to be Magic Johnson. I didn't say he wasn't though. I didn't say he wasn't.

I just said it was a debate between about him and Magic Johnson. Some people say, but I didn't say that because I kind of agree with you. Okay. My fault. My fault. So, so, so we're in agreement with both of those things. And, and, and when we talk about who's number two, if you asked me and told me that my life was on the line and somebody had to go play a basketball game,

knowing that my life was on the line and represent me, it'd be hard for me not to pick Kobe Bryant out after Michael Jordan. Because I know how far he's going to take it. Okay. Can I say something? Go ahead. Yeah, Mark. I could point to Kobe Bryant in a game six closeout game losing to Boston by 39.

I could point to Kobe Bryant going up against the Phoenix Suns in a game seven where he damn near refused to shoot the basketball. to those things most conspicuously, not to mention what I said earlier, you did want to sever ties with Shaquille O'Neal. And when I'm talking about Mark Jackson, my former colleague at ESPN, my brother, my queen's brother, who I love dearly, born leader. Last time I checked all of those things. Now, I ain't saying anything, like, because I know Kobe's top 10. I say Kobe top six. You can

do all of those things. But I would also tell you that every word that I said to y'all, and Mark knows this, I've said to Kobe Bryant's face when he was alive, God rest his soul. He knows where I stood. He knows how I feel. And he would say to me, man, fuck that. You don't know what you're talking about. He said, I'll bust MJ's ass. And I started laughing. And he'd say, ask him. He'll tell you. Picked up the phone, called MJ.

I said, he's saying this to you. MJ started laughing. He tells me that all the time. So Kobe means it. Kobe meant it. So he meant it. He really believed it. So he meant it. He wasn't just saying it. He really believed it.

But I didn't. And I'm saying to you that when I look at Kobe and I look at his resume and his history, definitely easily top 10, likely top six. But when you say top two, I can make a legitimate argument about LeBron. I can make a four-time league MVP, by the way, went to nine straight NBA finals, by the way. I can point to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, a 19-time all-star, a six-time MVP, a six-time champion, a winner on the high school, collegiate, and pro level, who, by the way, is the lone individual in the history of the sport with one unstoppable move. Everyone and their grandmother knew he was going to do it.

And there was nothing you could do about it for 20 years. You can't say that about Kobe. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, nigga. Y'all ain't letting me talk. I'm letting them talk. I got my lawyer with me. I'm letting the elders talk.

Listen. Listen. Bro, the first three don't count. To a basketball purist, they do not count. You had to go get with Wade. That don't count to us. But that's two. Well, two.

The four, you said nine. Four of those championships, he was there with Wade. You had to go and get with somebody. If Magic played with Jordan, he would have how many? This is a conversation people already know. And then when you talk about the league that they're playing in, this is a total different league. It's no way near the basketball that Kobe was playing at the early days when Kobe was playing. This is like if you touched him, you get a foul.

LeBron getting niggas thrown out the game. He can call niggas and say, I want Draymond out for this many games. It's political with LeBron. You said it right. People respect LeBron. They feared Jordan and they feared Kobe. They didn't fear LeBron. They feared Kobe. And I think sometimes we got to put more respect on Magic name. I think sometimes people bring Magic out of the equation. Magic was a winner

from the beginning. I consider y'all a new breed. I need y'all to do me a favor. Magic was a winner from the beginning. I consider y'all a new breed. I need y'all to do me a favor. I need us to stop saying that. What? Put respect. We're having a conversation about who the greatest ever is.

Yes. Of course, that's respect. See, don't let them get caught up in trying to create a narrative like, oh, my God, if you say something about somebody being number two or number three. The game started in 1947. Yes. Game over 75 years old. Thousands upon thousands upon thousands of players played in the NBA. I got you top three, and it's an insult.

Because that's what I get on LeBron's crew about. Yeah. I mean, I had Rich Paul sit up there and say to me, I said, you act like it's an insult to call him the second greatest player of all time. It is an insult. I said, see, I can't listen to you. I can't talk to you because that don't make no sense. You know? It's an insult to call him the second greatest player of all time. It is an insult. See, I can't listen to you.

I can't talk to you because that don't make no sense. You know, it's all respect. But you got to pick one. The whole thing about not to cut you off, Stephen A. I'm sorry. No, you good. It's slang, too. It isn't that we're not respecting him. No, I'm not talking about y'all.

I'm just talking about this and other people out there that's doing this. Yeah, you're right there that's doing this. They're doing that. We just want them to know that's Birdman when he went crazy at the radio station. He's like, put some respect on my name. So when we say that, it isn't that we're being disrespectful to anybody. It's just more slang. So when he says that,

it isn't that we're not respecting anybody that we're talking about. Yeah, I think other than Magic, I mean, other than Joy, nobody changed the game more than Magic. Nobody. And Steph Curry, too, man. Yeah. I mean, in that time.

And you bring up the new rules, and that takes into consideration. But let me tell you the one thing none of y'all said. The first three titles, Kobe Bryant wasn't the best player on this team. That was Shaquille O'Neal. The most dominant force of our lifetime. Magic was phenomenal. But Kareem was his teammate.

And worthy. You ever see James Worthy play? I know you have. It's a rhetorical question. Yes. Now, Mark Jackson. And Byron Scott. Byron Scott, Michael Cooper, Michael Thompson,

Kurt Redwell, all these guys. But, boy, Byron Scott and Norm Nixon before Byron Scott. Mark Jackson, could you please spend about 20 seconds telling people how great James Worthy was? I just had an argument with a guy yesterday trying to tell me certain guys in the league today was better than James Worthy. He gained James. We know.

He's a top 50 player of all time and absolutely no flaws. His ability to finish at the rim, his ability to run across three-way, post up and steal you on his back, nothing you could do about it. He was incredible. He was absolutely incredible. I just want to make one thing clear. We're old enough to see James Worthy play. We watch James Worthy play.

I just want to make one thing clear. I am not saying that Kobe Bryant, if you're talking about who's the top players of all time, LeBron James is on the list ahead of Kobe Bryant for his career. My point was, if you ask me with my is on the list ahead of Kobe Bryant for his career. My point was, if you ask me with my life on the line, who I'm taking.

But LeBron James certainly has a case to be made to be the second greatest player of all time. But I believe there's a handful of guys, Kareem,

Wilt, Magic, they're in that discussion. But Michael Jordan is the GOAT. And by the way, I'll shock you here. Everybody says Wilt. Most dominant force of our lifetime.

Once averaged 50, you know what I'm saying? 15, 25. I don't have Wilt on the top five. Do you know why? His number one nemesis was who? Bill Russell. How many times has Bill Russell got? 11. How many times has Wilt Chamberlain? Two.

And not only that, Bill Russell coached two of the games, two of the championships when he was playing them. But I's, and not only that, Bill Russell coached two of the games, two of the championships when he was playing them. But I'm saying for the purposes of how we talk basketball, it kind of matters when the dude you directly go up against got you beat by nine titles. Yeah. Now, I know that Bill Russell is not the individual talent

that Bill Russell, that Will Chamberlain ever was. But damn, if I'm going against you, like, you know why you could sit up there and say Kobe is number two? Because he got five and MJ got six. It ain't 11 to two. If it was 11 to two, you wouldn't be calling Kobe number two. That's right. 11, that's why I don't have Will Chamberlain, even though I know his talent was unreal.

See, my thing is when it comes to LeBron and when it comes to Kobe, that debate. Right. And of course, we keep Mike at the top because we know what it is. A lot of people pick Kobe Bryant because Kobe is a pure assassin. Yes.

And some people want an assassin. LeBron James doesn't always come across as an assassin to certain people. And certain people be like, oh, he doesn't really care. He passes, he defers, he should have shot the shot at the last minute. That's a lot. Kobe Bryant will fight you for the last shot. And it depends on what you need on your team, an assassin or all-around basketball player.

It's sometimes like if you're watching boxing, they'll say Floyd isn't the best boxer, but he's the best boxer. He may not be the best knockout artist. He's not knocking out at a 90% rate. He was at the lightweight division. No, but no, see, and that's another argument where I had an argument on Dan Levitas' show.

It's the difference between Pretty Boy Floyd and Money Mayweather. No doubt. Those are two different fighters. Totally true. After he fights Oscar De La Hoya and he sees how the pay-per-view numbers come in and he says, oh, I'm not even fighting any more Americans. I'm going to start picking people from different countries, promote that way, and I'm going to make sure I win to secure the bag because now people are coming to see him just to lose. It isn't even about knocking people out.

If I win, I can do this again, make a few more hundred millions of dollars. And to me, that's what LeBron is. He's an all-around basketball player. And sometimes he has an assassin mentality. But Kobe Bryant is no question about it. Kobe is there to kill you, and sometimes people like that attitude.

Same thing like Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan is there to kill you. The difference between Michael Jordan and Kobe Bryant to me is that Michael Jordan sees three people on him and is going to pass to Jon Paxson. He's going to pass to see if Kobe's going to shoot with all five people on you. Probably

he makes it or miss it. That's just my opinion. He did give it up to Ronna Tess. Metta World Peace. That one time. And they won. And they won. And they won.

He did do that. Y'all Queens got to stick together, man. Y'all don't find a way to get Queens in there one way or another. Just stating the fact. Just stating the fact. That's a fact.

Absolutely, man. That's right. Okay. Well, Mark Jackson, thank you. Stephen A., thank you so much. That's a fact. Absolutely, man. That's right. Okay. Well, Mark Jackson, thank you. Thank you so much. Stephen A., thank you so much. We had no idea. Listen, if you're here all week, we would love for you to come back.

I'll come to the show. Anything you need, thank you for popping up on us. And we really appreciate it. Thank you for everything. I'm proud of y'all, man. I'm proud of the job that y'all are doing. I appreciate y'all having my man, Mark Jackson. I love you, bro.

Miss you, man. It's good to see you. Love you back, man. Absolutely. All right. Mark, we'll see you next week, bro. Appreciate you. Yes, sir. Good talking to y'all. Love you, bro. Miss you, man. It's good to see you. Love you back, man. Absolutely. All right. Mark, we see you next week, bro. Appreciate you. Yes, sir.

Good talking to y'all. All right. Okay. That's all the time we have for today. Thanks for watching. And as always, it is what it is. We'll see you next time. Like when they doing them two for five.