IT IS WHAT IT IS - SHERRONE MOORE SCANDAL HITS MICHIGAN & HAVE MA$E & KILLA EVER BEEN FINESSED BY A CHICK?!

Episode Date: December 11, 2025

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It's like, whoa. presented by Underdog. If you're new to Underdog, today's the day, get $75 in bonus entries when you play just $5 with code. It is what it is. Underdog isn't stopping there. They're giving all new users a gimmie pick on Bejohn Robinson tonight. Y'all can make picks right now in most days, including Florida, Texas, and California, just name a few. So make sure you all support the show, hit that subscribe button, lock in your bonus and start playing today with code. It is what it is. I'm Treasure Wilson, aka Stat Baby, along with your host, Mace, and Cam, and today we are joined with our analyst, Michael Irvin. Hey, Mike, what's good? Killer, what's going on?

It's good, everybody. How y'all? Mike, what's happening? Hey, it's all good, man. It's all good. We're doing well. Who's we? Who's we? Who's we? Literally. Who's we today? We're doing well? Each of us have at least two of us and all of us. that person you show everybody, that person you show nobody. So I say we, because we at least have two, right? You don't know what I'm saying. I don't know if you talk about Miami. I don't know if you talk about because the Eagles lost.

I don't know what you'd be up to half the time. So therefore, when you say we, it's a legitimate we. Who are you talking about? It's a legitimate question because you're right, you know. My family, my dad used to always say this, family is made by more than just blood. can also be made by a common great love so i have i do have a cowboy family and a hurricane family so all of that's we too so you know i can dig what you're saying when you ask the question

from that perspective i see jerry jones so much all got a shot at this thing yeah yeah yeah but cam i almost called you i almost almost touch you because when i hit you No, no, honestly, when we were talking, when we were talking and you were talking about we had the same boat and I said, no, no, no, no, no, we're not in the same boat. You lost ground because your AFC North teams were playing each other, Pittsburgh and Baltimore. But Philly, I said, if they lose Monday, we lost time, but we didn't lose any ground. We lost runway, but we didn't lose any ground. We got to, you know what I mean? So, so, so yeah, because they lost.

Then they lost. Man, I'm going to tell y'all something. When they lost, I was, I came out, I was talking to somebody and I said, I'm so damn good at this. Oh, my God. I'm just good. I'm just so good at it, dude. I told y'all even before when we got what Philly was saying, when A.J. Brown said, I want to catch past. They ain't about just winning Super Bowls.

And now look at the problem they're going in. A.J. Brown has caught more parts more yards than any receiving NFL. the last three games all came up zero and three. What that tells me is since you're worrying too much about running the offense through him that you are ruining your offense. Mike, where's the poncho, man? I came on the show for the poncho.

Is the poncho still alive or where's the poncho right now? The poncho be back, murder. Now that the niggas are one and a half games, poncho gonna be back, nigga. Yeah, so he could not find the puncher. Right, right, right, right. The puncho went both ways now. It helped the Cowboys win and put the Eagles in a bad spot.

Now, I'm going to tell you something, hey, makes, you need a puncho. You need a cheap puncher. You're going to get my poncho, man. You need a cheat puncher. Hey, that was crazy, Mike, that was good. But Mike, also, before we move forward, I'm not, I don't have two people in me pause, but I, what did you mean by that?

That sounds wild. Well, well, we all have. Come on, Mace. There are things that you know about you that you're not sharing. with anybody. You know, there are things that you may say or do that you're not openly sharing with everybody. So there's a public, us, you know,

and then there's a seriously private us. All of us have that. You can't, there ain't nobody in here telling me that's everybody knows everything about them. It'll be a bold face, la. Okay, sir, that's what we do. You know what I'm saying? Each of us have at least two of us in all of us.

It's that person you show people and that person you really don't want anybody to see. I don't know about that. I see your point, but I don't think that's true for everybody, but I'd see what you're saying. You think anybody out here has told you everything about him? Cam, you think anybody out here has spit the whole hundred yards out? Come on, man. Come on,

I got to agree with Mike or not. I mean, spit the whole hundred yards out. I'm like, I'm, you know what? I'm going to agree with you on this segment that everybody probably doesn't know everything,

but you do have people that you care about that may know everything about you, not necessarily the world, but like if you got a brother or best friend or a sister. That's what I meant, kill. Okay. Well, two things can be right. Yeah, I didn't want to line stuff.

That was a perfect. Perfect. That I do agree with as well. Okay, so we've got some breaking news. So Michigan fired their head coach, Sharon Moore, for an inappropriate relationship with a staff member. He previously started two-game suspension for his part in Connor Stallion's sign-stealing scandal. Three hours after his firing, he was actually detained by police.

Sources also said prominent Michigan donors cooled on contributing to the program after hearing of the allegations more also had a buyout of around 14 million dollars but because he was fired for cause michigan may be off the hook for nearly all of it so there's a lot to unpack here a lot is still unfolding and there's a lot of rumors there's truth there's not the truth but it's a lot so mike what was your initial reaction to this news that was a that was a hell of a segue we're talking about hiding things from people and you're going to write two major hiding story. You see what I'm saying? That was

yeah. You think you think he had at least two people in him? You see what I'm saying? Right, right. Real deal. That's what I'm saying. Real deal. This is crazy. Now, this is going from a story of, and the coach who really, you know, backed up and right, was right there with Coach Harbaal, you know, Coach Harbaugh put in the contract that he had, that he gets to near Nick's head coaching job after he left.

And then to see this, you know, it's just, it's sad, it's another brother fall like this, you know, what I'm saying, and going, going from the position that he had is the head coach of Michigan, and then all of this come out. Now, yeah, I can't even go down that direction that my mind just thought about. But the reality is, it's for me, it's just, it's sad to see it. It's just sad to see it. So I don't know. And I know that $12 million, please, that's $12 million.

That's gone. Yeah. Yeah, Mike, I was basically saying that when you think of this situation, right, and you say, well, he had to have parts of least two people in them. Somebody knew about it because not only did he get fired, I mean, two people knew about it, and then he got arrested, so three people knew about it. He wasn't low about whatever he did,

but I think it's kind of crazy that when you think of, like, black head coaches... But I didn't get out. Do we know enough about how that information got out? Do we know somebody saying something? Do him and the girl get an argument? Did she get bad about something? He promised she was going to leave with what? There's a lot in that.

You know, that's why I don't, I, because I just, we just got the story and stuff is still coming in, and I don't know if you can say it's a, I don't know, say, a ledge, just a leg, that. So how did he get out? Did somebody in Michigan not like him, and then say, oh, we're gonna flip this way

and then get out of our money? You say, I don't know, so we don't know all of that. Yeah, I'm saying however, however it was known, or allege or the allegation or accusation that somebody besides him knew of the situation that they were able to use it in their advantage. I definitely believe, like, being a person of this magnitude, if it comes down to this type of coach that came from Jim Harbaugh, that, you know, he knew of this man's integrity. He knew of his character.

He wouldn't have just passed the team to anybody. I would love to believe that. But it just seemed like it's been a horrible year for black head coaches, just period. When you look at what's going on in the NBA, you got NBA coaches, you know, black head coach under federal investigation. Being arrested, this is just a, it seemed like a really bad year for black head coaches. What did they lock them off? That they didn't. See, this is the show.

All right. They write the off the top. Exactly. Assault. Exactly. Who did he assault? Well, yeah. That's what I'm saying? I think they were saying he went to the house of the girl, the girl.

What you think, Mike? I don't know. I was allege. That's what they were saying. That's what they were saying. Alleged. I heard some, I heard people they were talking about it. So that's what they were alleging that somebody that he went to the house is how he got arrested.

And somebody there called the police. I hate this. That's why I was saying. That's why I was saying. That's why I was saying. Yeah, I respect that. Yeah, I don't you say too much because niggas don't be knowing the story

and just be ready to throw niggas on the bus. Secondly, what's inappropriate relationship with a staff member? It wasn't a student, it was a staff member. It was inappropriate. This is the same shit that my nigger, my nigger I got kicked out of Boston about. Coach Houston.

Now, let's flip the story. I don't, who's the staff member? Nobody knows. this is like this one I'm saying like media be fucked up they put a report out and I'm not saying if he did something wrong need to be arrested let's put that out

there then they did the right thing but we don't have the proper information we sit there and say a sign stealing scandal okay I don't even like that because Bill Belichick built championships off every gate you can imagine deflate gates stealing gate

listen man if you get an advantage and get the signs taking, it's really no proof of that. That nigga was on the sidelines. I remember that whole shit with the sign stealing shit. I can't even blame that on him. That's first and foremost. If it is him, okay, I apologize. I'll just tell him from the knowledge that I know.

Maybe I'm not fully knowledgeable about what was his part in the sign selling scandal. Secondly, they say inappropriate relationship with a staff member. What is that mean? I don't, what is that mean? What's inappropriate? They went to dinner when they shouldn't want to dinner? Was it somebody's wife? Because if it's a staff...

Paul's... Huh? He's supposed to be married to him. He's married. Yeah. Right. He's married and he's dating and he's having a relationship with a staff member. And then from what I understood it, he put her on, like in charge of some, some area.

I don't want to make. I can fill in the blanks and I'm just, I can fill in your blanks really quick because I'm just going to leave alleged because a lot of it, it's like sharing certain things because you don't know what's true, you don't know what it is. But I mean, her title that that I'm seeing here says she was an administrative specialist. And so she started with the $58,000 salary in it up to $90,000. And then of course, the coach is married. I don't know her relationship. Again, this is all alleged, but this is some of the information that I have here. Yeah.

What was the title? administrative specialists in the Athletics Department. That's the same time with my Uncle Lewinsky had. It was no problem. Niggas ain't impeached the president. Hell, niggins got to chill, yo. I'm just saying, that's just me. Monica Lewinsky

sound like the same situation. Actually, he ain't impeached. They ain't pieced the president. Look, I'm not trying to make a little light of it. but niggas keep getting in trouble and the females don't get in trouble not saying that she should be in trouble but that's just how that should be

I don't really want to comment no further because I'm like Kim you're rude, you're insensitive you're a dick guy, you don't know what's going on I need all the facts before I throw the nigga under the bus now like I said for him to be arrested obviously they know something that I don't and obviously whatever is in this contract

that he breached his contract and shouldn't be having affairs or just period. Marital Affairs, period. That's what happens when you get married and shit turned public. It's like the nigga, what they called that. They caught that nigga on the Jumbotron kissing his secretary and all that shit

of three, four months ago. We've seen that shit's that? Yeah, that was at the concert. Yeah, would they call it now, the kiss concert? What was it? Well, it was, I think it was Coldplay. Coldplay, that's what it's called the Coldplay. Yeah, yo.

It's a cold-ass play. That was a cold-ass play, man. I'm going to move on for I say the wrong. I don't think. Right. I'm going to say the wrong thing, man. But I need more facts. But like I said, anything that happened that I don't know about that is deserved,

then it's deserved. But I just don't have enough information to make any more comments. You saw, Cam, you saw how I was trying to send me Davis Jr. that thing. I was tap into my ass off. Yeah, Mike, Mike, Mike, let me, let me tell you son. You just be quiet on it, all right? You don't, you just be quiet, Mike.

Don't let us handle it, Mike. You don't need no more out of you from out of this situation. Right, right. I'm like the judge. I'm like the judge, I recluse myself. Yeah, Mike, you just gonna mute you on this topic right here, all right? We keep you quiet. We move on to the next time, Mike.

Yeah. Right. Right. As we get more information, we will definitely talk about it as a story develops, but I do just have a question for all of you all because like him said, we've seen a lot of incidents throughout the year where things have happened. And he brought up the Coldplay concert.

He also brought up EMA Yudoka. Like it's just been constant situations. And I'm just curious, like, in you guys' mindset and thoughts, like has, and even if it's not specific to you or maybe just somebody that you've known, but has a woman ever caused you guys to miss out on like a deal or a large amount of money or even just an opportunity? Like, how do you think?

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, not him specifically, but how do you think, Mike, we're just going to mute Mike on this shit right here, man. Star, we're trying to set my, no, it doesn't have to be, it doesn't have to be work, it doesn't even have to be work related. I mean, you don't know, yeah, man, Stan, it sounds like a setup, no, I'm not saying, work related, but even just, like, when you were early on in your career, even just, like, spending money, like, did you ever, you know what?

Mike, you're going to skip you on this question. You're going to ask me a mace this day. Fair, fair, fair, fair. But I'm just curious. like even just like early on in your career has it ever been a situation where you're just like okay like I'm smarter than this or like this person has tried to get me out of this type of money that type of situation from a woman I don't know if I don't know if we're finesseable I think I think there's a generation that is finesseable I don't know unless it's something I don't know

about with killer but I know I'm I'm unforenaceable you know what you know what man listen Let me tell you something real quick. And this is how I work, like, like Mason says it's not a lot, but he said it a few times during the time we were doing the show. Like, we grew up on Snoop Dog and Too Short and Tim Dog. And let me, and when I met a, and I'm much softer pause now when to come to females, you know what I'm saying? I'm way cooler.

Like, I like to be around females and talk and chilling all the time. But it was a time I didn't really, outside of having sex, I didn't really want to hang out with females. And now I do. I really do. But I remember when Mace was transitioning, so I used to work transitioning into a superstar. And he started being nice to females, and I couldn't understand it.

I'm like, yo. What are you doing? Yeah, like, yo, why are you talking nice to these bitches? That was my attitude. I'm sorry. The doubt was my attitude. I said, Cammer, it's just another way to go about it. I didn't like it.

I didn't like it one bit. I was like, I'm going to leave this nigga by herself and Mr. Child. I'm going back to town. I don't like all the Keekeying and all that with these drinks. You have fun, nigga. I know you on the 112 remix and all that, but I ain't with all this.

Yeah, this is too fast. More of the stories, I think I like Mace's analogy. Like, yeah, I've never been in a situation to where a female trick me out of my spot. If I wanted to do something for a female, it's because I want to do it. But have I ever been like, damn, she caught me? Nah.

Now, maybe, maybe not for Ness, robbed when I, like, a nigga may take a little nap and bitch left the crib with some bread. or something like that, but not no random bitch, neither. Not no bitch that I just met at the hotel that night. A bitch who addressed I knew that I could go knock on the door. They don't like, why are you playing with me? But nah, I can't remember any time like that

to where somebody fuck that money up. No. And that's kind of where I was trying to go with that. That was not to like, be like, have you ever been in this situation? Because I just feel like it constantly keeps happening. I'm just like, the focus, like I'll always say, especially just being like starting off in your situation, your careers or even just getting to the point where you make more money,

it's just, like, not allowing people to mess that up for you. You went to school with somebody who could have been really, really great in basketball, and I wouldn't say they got finessed, but something happened to where they kind of messed up their career. That's a lot of money. A lot of money. And I think most of the time, this happens because people leave with their pockets, you know, like most, you got two different kind of players.

You got players that's trying to get it because they believe they're worth it, and then you got people that get it because they got the money now. Those two different guys. Good points. Okay, so moving on. But I will make this. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh, you got it.

Now, I have to say this. I have to say this. I have to say this. And it's just to add some information to your conversation. It's not just about the person. It's also about the governing body that the person is working with now. And in my case, it's the NFL.

In his case, it's college football. You know, in the Mayo Doka's case, It's the NBA. These these people that you are working with are going to be the people that come down on you. And the girls know just the accusation is going to get you in trouble. Everyone knows just the accusation is going to get you in trouble.

So people try to avoid getting out thatization, even when it's true, false, or whatever. Now, in your game, in your game, a rapping and all this, noise get out about you guys since you don't have that governing body like a whole team and all of that it's kind of helps you guys because you're looking for eargates you're looking for igates you're looking for publicity to put your music out and that stuff happens to you got more people download and tune in and turn in you can possibly make money from it when it is

going to cost people that have that governing body over their money because the governing body doesn't care about the truth. It's just the accusation. I won't say anything else after that. Yeah, I think, Mike, what you're saying is 100% right. I think also this just lets us know we're way overdue from having a rule or law that just put women in jail if they're lying. I think we're overdue for that rule. So, Mike, what you're saying is like this dude from Michigan or e-made or even yourself, y'all should do an album? Hey, that's a good way to get out of this whole conversation. This exists, he's right.

So basically the nigger from Michigan, Michigan, mad cause I got a side bitch. That's what you're telling me. They should just come out and come with the album and sell records. Every day? What? It will sell like hot cakes. Because we always want to hear a brother, not just sing a song, words you read on a paper,

sing something you experience. Oh, we go hear him in this song. And we'll wrap what you experience. Wrap your truth. It will be his truth. So yeah, yeah. That's what they call connectivity. Connectivity.

Connectivity. Negativity. Always got a new word for us, Mike. Okay. along. We got to discuss Philip Rivers. He's been embracing his NFL comeback. He said, I wasn't hanging on to any hope of playing again. I kind of thought that ship had sailed. He also said he had happened to be watching the Colts game at the moment. Daniel Jones fell to the turf and he admitted that it crossed his mind that he might eventually receive a call

from the coach. There's a lot of discussion and anticipation ahead of this game with Philip Rivers. Mike, do you think he can save the Colts? saving a strong work, a real strong word, because the coach had something with Daniel Jones. It was the combination of what he did. It wasn't just his arm. It was also his ability to run. Of course, some Rivers don't have that. But now, Philip Rivers is a little bit better than Daniel Jones when you talk about assessing the game.

I don't know how his arm is right now because he's. He's been home with his football team, his 11 kids and his wife. You know what I mean? That football team over there. And now he's been throwing with his kids. So we'll see all of that here coming out. But Philip Rivers will be helpful in the passing game if his arm is anywhere near it is or in the situation like what Payton Manning was with the Denver Broncos the last year.

He didn't throw a whole lot, but he put him in the right situation. and the right plays, and they ultimately end up winning games. I think it affects Indy too much because he doesn't have the ability to run to call it a saving, but he will help. Yeah, I think he plays pretty decent when he get there. I think he has to, and I think because he'll have a lot of freedom, it's not like he can mess up. They don't have a backup for him.

And when you can play and you ain't got to worry about messing up, I think most players who have that ability can do well in that type of system. I'm just happy to get to go back and wear number 17 again. I think it's stupid. Where's Andrew Luck at? I'd rather get paid man in back.

He's paid man is a real Indianapolis court. This thing ain't even no real call. Nikes are charges and all that. Play with the calls more than years. He ain't no real like, oh, he's been what? Nigger, they're down, damn. I think it was charges. I probably get paid manning.

That's just my personal opinion. But, hey, if they like it, I love it. Can't wait to see what happened. That niggas are hit away from being an intensive care. I tell you that right now. But what is on his side is that you can't hit the quarterback like you used to be able to hit the quarterback. I remember, nigga, Kurt Warner got hit, and he might have retired the next quarter after he got hit. And he wasn't even 44 years old.

This is one thing when you think about somebody like Tom Brady who retired at 45 years old, he was constantly playing. You know, when you think about Joe Flocko getting cold off the couch, he was playing a year before that. Philip Rivers haven't played in four years. Now, are we looking for a miracle or waiting to see some special happen? If it does, it does. I don't think it will. I don't know what he's been doing in his off time.

I don't know if he's been practicing, throwing balls, paws, or whatever, but it has to be very, very desperate for the Indianapolis courts to call up Philadelphia Rivers. I would have liked Peyton Manning better. I don't know if, like you said, Mike, Peyton Manning looked terrible with the Broncos this last year, but at least he's an official cult. Fuck is Andrew Luck. I Andrew Luck coach in the college team or something.

I seen a nigga over day on the sidewalk. At least he's a real cult. Niggas acting like Philip Rivers some cult. He's not a stadder. The nigga was a charger his whole career. He's not a real Indianapolis cold. He played them niggas one year, man. That niggas really there.

And not even a Los Angeles charger. He's San Diego Charger, man. I don't like it. Why they ain't just get Russell Wilson? I don't know. So, Mike, your thoughts on that? That would be this is clearly Russell Wilson's final, final opportunity that the Giants was this final opportunity. There's no way.

But the problem really is for Philip Rivers is his first game back happens to be against a hell of a defense, you know, getting ready to play Seattle. So you're talking about, I know somebody knows how to get to the quarterback and call. problems. That's why, and you talk about Tom, you guys talk about Tom Brady. Tom Brady was able to play to lose 45 because he's a pre-snap quarterback. That means he's already discerned and deciphering the defense. Snap, boom, snap, boom, snap, boom. I'm not letting you guys get to me. Philip Rivers is not necessarily a pre-snap quarterback. He's going to snap and then look around and you may not get to look around too long with this team that's coming with Seattle

coming at you like that. So, yeah, this will be interesting. This will be interesting to watch this first game. It'll be very, very interesting because it's not against the team, an easy defense. And we'll see. If he played shoulders up, like I'm talking about, he'll be fine. But if he tries to play this game, shoulder down, where he's waiting to see things and he's going, I would be concerned for his help. But if he could Tom Brady this game, get the ball out of his hand and they play a short passing game, where down that defensive line before, at least the third quarter, before you try to look around or go up the football field, then maybe he'll be okay

because he's winning with his brain. If they just needed a bigger quarterback with an arm, they paused. They could have just hired on Cam Newton. Cam Newton is probably 10 years younger and probably more connected to the game. I like that. That's a great take, and I'm sure he probably feels the same way. Yeah, like, how do you just skip people in their 30s and go to the niggas almost 50? It's crazy.

But, you know, it is Indiana, though. you also got to think about who work in that climate but cam newton could have done that job okay but i just told you why they skipped them niggas in the 30s because they wanted a smart dude to understand the game been around the game for a while to try to play with his mom they got they got they got an anthony rich sit over there they're saying we don't even know what kind of you know we got enough for them that's why we winnie got daniel jones you asked but i have to answer Answering the question. Well, did you just say Cam Looney is not smart? Yeah, yeah, cam is can play Cam can play but Cam is also a post snap quarterback. That's because he wins with his legs sometimes. He wants to look and see look around

then throw the ball to roll out and go running like Daniel Jones like Daniel Jones would do. Okay. So then why wouldn't he be a good fit, Mike? That doesn't make sense. Yeah, you're trying to to clean it up Mike yeah he tried to say he was not smart and and cam no no no no no no I listen I'm not saying cam's not smart I told you you go look at this way cam new play football I told you how they play football I saw all I was talking about now pre snap a post step in and Tom had to do it because he hasn't had he doesn't have that physical ability cam new no they never had to do it so that's It's not anything against them.

They were able to, they don't see what they want right now. They're going to running. Mike, you're dizzy, Mike. It's the real. Mike, if he plays the same way as playing you Jones, then this will be a perfect fit for the team. Let me just get it real quick. No.

They say Cam Newton and you said, no, they want a smart quarterback. That's the exact answer, Mike. Yeah, and we're just trying to clear it up, Mike. Can't call. No, no, no, no, no. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I didn't call. Okay, I'm not smart. That's what you said, Mike.

You guys can't twist me with that. No, no, that's all. You said they didn't pick them because they wanted a smart quarterback. It's on tape, Mike. I told you they wanted a pre-snap. Let's rewind the tape. You said, and he'll run with his legs, but then you come back and say, Daniel Jones is the same kind of quarterback.

We go to break with rewind and do that. Go ahead. That is what you said. Yeah, rewind it, dude, because I'm telling you what I told you. Mike, you need a poncho. Do you understand? Did he say that? That is what you said.

That's why we all paused. We were like, what? You got it right now? What I'm talking about? What did I explain before this? I said there's a shoulders up quarterback and the shoulders down for that. The quarterback that plays only, that plays shoulders up, that doesn't have the ability to run around and move around like him do.

And that's what he does. That's what your boy is. That's what the Bob Brady is. I talked this all time. So. Y'all just trying to twist it up and tie it up so we get some more tips. Well, we can't give you a job. So you're going to do it to walk with.

Yo, Mike, we're going to get the tape. It's all good. I started this with a shoulders up. Should it down for the back. Oh, my. That's what a. Shoulders up. We'll get in a seat.

Yeah, we'll have to look at the tape. The panel might not be buying it. Okay. So we're going to get into our underdog picks of this. day. On Sunday, the Colts will play the Seahawks. Underdog has Philip Rivers at 165 and a half passing yards. Mace, higher or lower. Oh, man, this is an interesting one. Who they're playing? They're playing the Seahawks. Nah, nah. I'm going to go lower. I'm going to go lower. I don't think they let Philip Rivers come out here on his first game. Yeah, they better not. Seattle, you better not let them get one.

I'm going to law. I'm going to agree with Mesa. I'm going to go law. Seattle's defense is really good. But one thing I will say about Philip Rivers, God bless the day. Me and I used to watch him when he was younger. He's like, this nigga's like a spoiled brat.

Like he's real feisty. He's like, you know, he's one of them feisty quarterbacks talk shit and he's like argue with fans and all that. So I can see him trying to go out there and get some numbers. in the beginning but I don't think he will but that nigga talks shit and he wants to win

you know he kind of has that thing Mike that we were saying that you knew said that and I think even more that Baker. Yeah exactly Baker Baker yeah I think he got that times three I don't know about that. Yeah.

I forgot about that too because you're right. You know what I totally forgot about that's how played and get this. He's been home for four years. And you know, you know, okay, as a quarterback, you top dog in every organization. So everybody is up under you. Then you retire and you go home. When I retire, I remember Bishop telling me, work your way back into the house now. That means the house been working well without you for 20 years ago, try to come back to be the boss. So can you imagine he got and let kids in a wife.

He, so he way down at the bottom. He, he's been getting beat up on. He can't wait to get on that football field and try to get feisty and get like you would. I just, I forgot how he plays like that. And that may help, that may help the coach right there. Because Daniel Jones ain't have that in him. You know that make you want to go fight like that, like, like knuckle fight, like

Negro, little fight, that kind of fight. Yeah, that may help a lot. Talks like that. Okay, Jonathan Taylor's at half a rushing and receiving touchdown. Do you have a higher or lower game? They're trying to play me with that half a touch. Yes, higher. Yeah, higher.

Niggas is trying it. Sam Darnold is at 231 and a half passing yards. You have higher or lower mace. I'm going higher. I think he's on a road to get this done and then make men put them in a better position even than they already are. So I'm going to go higher. I'm going to go high as well. Okay.

Make sure you out down on the Underdog app and you can make your picks too. We're going to go to break. When we return, we will discuss injuries in the NFL and NBA. Don't go anywhere. Welcome back. So given all the injuries we've seen in the NFL and NBA, because there's been a lot of them specifically this season as well, do you think luck, Mike, especially in regards to health, overshadows coaching and strategy? I don't know if you could ever say luck overshadows coaching and strategy, you know, but but being healthy plays. an important role anytime in any sport, anything you're doing,

especially in professional sports. So, but you can have the healthiest talent in the world. They'd be healthy the whole season. If it ain't coached right and putting up the right plays, you're still going to have some issues. So, so, yeah, yeah, it's important to stay healthy, but you can't ever say it overshadows being prepared and having a plan of attack when you are playing.

and healthy yeah that was a good that was a good point um when it comes a team i also add to what mike is saying and i think being a part of being a great coach is doing things to keep your players healthy like knowing when to take people out um when they switch things up when they give people rest when they give them a day off you know just all of these things i think that goes into it so i don't think you you can supersede good health with coaching and playmaking and stuff like that. But I think when you have both of them together that some people call it luck, but it's just everything happening at the same time. I think that you have to, it's part of scouting and drafting and putting the right people

with the right organization. It's not, look, I'm almost 50 years old. I've never seen an injury-free season, ever. Somebody's going to get hurt on every team or every sport, whether it's one week, whether it's four months, whether it's two games, and now with the NBA, they're doing low management. You have to have backup players that's decent.

And as we can see, that's just not happening. You know, you sit there and we start off the season with Russell Wilson, and they don't like them. we get to Jackson Darden, they like him, but is he really producing? Then it gets to the point where he's hurting, they can go to Jamie Winston. Then he's just in Jamie Winston. Look, it's hard to find good backup players in any position. So that just goes down to scouting, I mean, pardon me, recruiting, off-season acquisitions, et cetera.

We're looking at Phillip Rivers coming off the bench, not the bench, off the couch, after four years. Yo, bro, it's, you know, it's hard, man. Pause, if you're a scout or a head coach or anybody in that position, the GM, bringing people in to facilitate when your superstars get hurt.

But I will say this to answer the question stat completely. When you said, is it luck having a good, whatever you said? Yeah, like coaching and strategy. Look, a lot of people don't know this. Luck is the residue of design. So you have the best design in the world,

but sometime you're going to need a little luck. Don't forget I told you that. Luck is definitely the residue of design. That's a good one. I like that. Yeah, that is great. Okay, so also when we discuss Philip Rivers and even when we talked about Daniel Jones

playing through a broken fibula, and we've just seen a lot of players also play while they're clearly injured. How much responsibility, Mike, do you think coaches should have when players suffer strong injuries? Do you view it as part of the job or do you see it as kind of like careless?

What do you mean? Like, and what Mason was talking about, all of the, you're trying to make sure that the guys get the proper rest or pull back at certain times, things like that. Yeah, coaches have to, it's a fine line when you're listening to the training staff. But now they have so much information and technology, you know, tell you exactly how much you put in, how much you exerted yourself. it yourself. Some people are different. Like I wanted to run every route, you know, even when coaches I might take a break, but it was part of my mentality. If I felt like I didn't get my working and I would feel like that will affect me on Sunday, you know. So even when he told me to take a break, I wasn't going to hear. When I ran a route, they say, hey, we'll

get somebody to get you a rep. I said, no, if Troy throw, I go. I run right back down the middle of the practice field. They can't run another playoff on his way. You see what I'm saying. So, so, so some, some coaches are trying that now in the NFL. But Daniel Jones was an Achilles rupture. You know, that, that, that's hard to try to, in any way, mitigate a ligament. You can try to help muscles recover and everything and you, and you, you know, but trying to mitigate a ligament popping or something like that, that's just,

that's different. You know, your muscles get too tired or you're overworked, then you put more strain on your Achilles and stuff like that. But it's a hard thing to try to pinpoint and say, we could stop this. What's the question against that? Yeah, basically how much responsibility do you think goes on the coaches when they basically also allow players to play

when they're injured at a certain extent? I think a little opposite of what Mike is saying. And when players are hurt, you've got to sit them down. You know, like there's people that we've seen this in the National Football League. I remember Killer was talking about Jane, what's his name, Jaden Daniels, where his arm was messed up, and they put them back out there. That is clearly the coach's decision. That has nothing to do with tiredness of the arm like Mike is talking about.

And he made great points about when they're fatigue and the muscles and different things like that. But we all know, like he said, if one part is a deficiency, then the other part is overworking. But we're talking about you putting a player in there already knowing he's injured. We got three quarterbacks that came back this season that was previously hurt. And two of them looked like they might have gotten re-injured. I mean, I'm not sure they're ready to say it yet. But we see a decline there with one of the quarterbacks, and we say he's not 100%. I think he potentially could have gotten re-injured and they're just not ready to say it yet. But this is something that is all on the coach. If a player wants to play and the coach is

saying you're not going to play, he's not going to play. So you got to put the onus with the coach on this. Both y'all have some really good takes. For me, it's a split decision. And when I say that, it depends on who the player is. If it's Jadin Daniels, no. you're not playing. We're not going anywhere anyway. We're the commanders. If it's Lamar Jackson, we got a chance. We might still could win. The division's not that good. Even though me personally, I wouldn't put Lamar Jackson in because he's 28 years old. A lot of his career thus far has been based upon his legs. We know he's great in the pocket and he gets a lot of respect in the pocket as of late because of what he could potentially do when he scrambles

or goes for yards. And we haven't been seeing that to Mesa's point. And I just think on, it depends on the cachet that you have or what you've done in the past. When or ever to where they have a lot of science, a lot of health. And they're saying, look, you should play this many games and you put pressure on this foot. And your right arm is going to look, I seen Isaiah Thomas scored 25 points on one foot against the Lakers. I've seen it with my own eyes. Literally, literally, not even

figuratively. Imagine he told the nigger that he can't play. The nigger just had 10 points on one foot. Get the fuck out there, hop up and down and get us 15 more points. Would you tell Isaiah you can't play? Would you tell Michael

Jordan? Yo, you got the flu, bro. You can't play. You got the flu. Would you tell him that? If you're Phil Jackson, no. That's a good point. So that's why I'm saying. I'm torn on the decision. Now, because today it seems like it's cool to do like,

nah, you got to take care of them, this, that, and third. You don't get the flu game from Michael Joy if you do that. You don't get the one leg, 25 points from Isaiah Thomas. You don't get these type of games if you're the coach and don't let them play. So I'm torn on the answer between both of you guys. those are both really really really good and just for procedural just just for procedures and understand how it works the coach knows nothing about all of this the coach is just going to get advice or get what the training staff says and the training staff is who's rehabbing the

player training the player getting the player back into playing form even when he is hurt and and And also, guys, I'm going to add this part. I'm going to tell you what the hardest things in the world are doing as an athlete. You guys at this level especially, you know, it is not played when your guys are out there. You even James said, I want to be out there with my guys. You hear people, but it's the worst feeling in the world personally because you want to play. But you feel like you're letting everybody down, you know. So you rush in to get back.

back out there because of that. And you feel that, you know, so it's hard to tell guys not to go. That's why I said I'm touring because, look, even though I went back 30 years and we're talking about stuff today, think about this, just last year,

right, Mike, murder, is that you sit there and watch Halliburton and make miracle after miracle series after series all the way to game seven of the championship that he found, and finally poured up with him. To game seven to win, now he's missing the whole season.

But that nigga, you know, he made history last year. It was fun to watch. This thing had a buzzer-beater every series, but was those things worth it not won the championship, though, to say, damn, I missed the whole season. Because look, I may be the only niggins who remembered that. I mean, I know people remember, I'm exaggerating, of course. But, you know, it depends on what you like.

I'm a different type of sandwich. I like to see shit like that, man. Good points. Not people get hurt, see greatness. Yeah, okay. Right, right, right. You're all a wild one today, but I'm gonna just go on. The words are the concept.

Different kind of sandwiches, wow, killer. What, I'm gonna do. That's out of my little Billy D, you know. Different type of shit. That's what it's like. different type of sandwich for us. You ain't been uptown a minute, murder. I'm just going to be a guy taking a picture of you when you said it's a different

kind of sandwich. You say you ain't been up town, man. I don't know. I mean some new slang and all that. I'm talking about nigga Billy Dee, man. Okay. So let's preview a couple games real quick. So Patriots are going to be playing the bills.

Mike, who do you think? wins this game. I'm surprised when you look at this and the bills are actually favorite, I think, in this game to go and win. It's hard for me now when I know how great of a job that Mike Brable does, getting his team ready. The Patriots already went to Buffalo and beat them. And now you got to bring this thing to New England.

Boy, that's going to be a game. And I don't care, you know, Superman is going to have to be super the whole while and smart the whole while because Mike Brable is going to do some things on their defense that causes problems. And it's hard for me. Nobody in this league right now is more prepared for a game on game day. than what Mike Brable have, the New England Patriots. So I'm leaning towards the Patriots winning that game

and it's going to take a super, super crazy game from Josh if he has any chance to win that game. Yeah, Mike, I think you're dancing around it, really. You took a long route to get there. The Patriots are going to win, Mike. We know this. I mean, it's not a foregone conclusion. I love Buffalo.

I love all of the rappers out there, but I can't side with them on this. I'm sorry, Griselda. It's going to be the Patriots. The Patriots are going to win this game. And Drake, maybe he's playing too well and he's too young. His confidence is too high.

They got all the signs pointing towards a victory. I'm going with the Patriots. Mike, I see why you was dancing. That dancing was definitely called for because I don't know. And if I got a pick, I'm going with the bills. Because the reason I'm going to go with the bills and not saying that the Patriots, you know, shouldn't be, shouldn't win this game or especially being at home. But I think the bills are favored because they know the desperation.

I don't even know if you catch the Patriots in the division, but this pushes you further away from a wild card spot if you lose this game, being what's going on with all the other teams. it's a tough one man because one thing i will say about this is that you have to the games that we see buffalo lose this year they lost them games you know it was pretty bad but the games that they've won they have won games by um reasonable margins and then they had games like they had last week against uh the bangles where you have to play 60 minutes of football against Buffalo. You have a 14-point lead going into the fourth quarter, and it may not be safe

playing against Buffalo. I wouldn't be shocked if the Patriots win, but if I have to make a pick, I'm going with the Buffalo Bills because of the desperation and because of they need to get in the playoffs, definitely, an AFC. Not saying that they won't, but this game matters. Okay. And that's the key cam, too. Desperation, you know, it really is, because that's how Buffalo has to play. And I thought about it. you went you to stay at camp because they were playing Cincinnati jumped out doing great at them down but Cincinnati don't stay on top halls and to Zanetti he'll choke you out you see what I mean but New England that's why I was talking earlier how well coached they are how assignment base they are

you know it's a you if they get up on you they're not going to make those mistakes that Cincinnati made over and over again down the end, down the line to give Buffalo a chance. That's why I was saying that he has to play a super game and be smart and don't make any mistakes because you're going to capitalize on it. And just real quick, Mike, to your point about last game against the Bengals. Now, see, I totally agree with you when you're saying that Cincinnati doesn't keep their opponent down and choke them out, so to speak. Because, you know, we sat there and seen them have 80 points in two weeks

and still lose a few weeks ago. But what I will say is this. And it doesn't just have to be Josh Allen because as much as we got them on Mount Rushmore quarterbacks right now, that game was lost because of Joe Burrow. I'm not going to blame the Cincinnati defense for them particularly losing that game. They stayed up 10 points the majority of the game until Joe Burrow threw back-to-back interceptions, first two interceptions all season.

So I'm not going to put that on the Bengals. I know we're not, that really isn't the focus, but I don't want to blame the Bengals' defense like we've been doing week after week for them losing that particular game. That was purely on Joe Burrow. And, you know, I'm Joe Burroughs biggest supporter. But that's what I said,

Cameron. I said they're not going to make those mistakes down the line, down towards the end of the game. I'm talking to those interceptions, none of that. They're not going to do it. Drake May is not going to do it. That's what gave them the chance to come back. And the reason I said that, and the reason I said that, Mike, and you could say I'm wrong or whatever, but I love Drake May,

but he got a little bit of time to catch up to Joe Burrow. He got a little bit of time, man. You got a little bit of time, baby. I love what he's doing. I love the route he's on. But he ain't Joe Burrow yet. Joe Burrow make the mistakes. I'm not saying Drake May will, but I'm just saying we're not going to do that just yet. going to do that just yet. Let's chill out.

And I'm not making them. I'm not making him Joe Burrell. But Joe Burrell, that bad boy, Joe Burrell has leeway that a young Drake does not have. So Drake may is going to play within the framework of what Brable gives him. Joe Burrell is what you are, what you just talked about. He's the man. He's going to take opportunities to make those plays and take risk. And Usually those risks worked out, but last week it did not, and the mistakes cost them. All I'm saying is Drake May isn't going to make those mistakes. Yeah, I think this is really a show and tell day for Stefan Diggs. That's what I really think about.

Okay. Yeah, he's hyped. Last preview before we wrap. So Broncos versus Packers, Mike, who wins this? Boy, you know, I love this game. Two reasons. You know, the Broncos defense is one of the best defenses in the NFL. And Kristen Watson's now back with Green Bay Packers makes them a whole different team.

His speed up the field and playmaking ability. Now, Joe Love looks like, okay, we're going to. ready to take this thing to another level. Now, they got back Matthew Golden last week. Now, you start putting both of those guys on the field with speed like that. It's a scary game. It's a scary game. And I lean towards, where is that game at?

Where is that game? The game's played in Denver. Oh. Zendow. That game's in Denver. If it was in Green Bay, I think I would lean towards Green Bay. Denver, I have to go Denver. It's tough to play at mile high.

I'm going with the Broncos. I like Green Bay, and I think that they look good last week, but there's a team. Look, when we first started the season, the first few weeks, we like, damn. Green Baker went to the NFC. You know, they could go to the Super Bowl, and they had some slip-ups during the season

to where Joy and Love didn't look good. Some games, some games he looks at all-world, some games he looks mediocre so on and so forth Mike made some great points that they got some key pieces back but I'm not going again and then you know the thing about it as well I've seen other analysts say that it's just something about bone next where he's all right but he's not pulling the trigger he's not that elite quarterback the world talking about you know we sit there and talk about Drake may being in the MVP conversation possibly and we don't talk about both next being in that conversation when he has the same record as Drake

may. But the reason I'm going with the Broncos is because they're in the 10-game Winner Street. Until forever notice, I'm going to pick the Broncos unless they're playing somebody or they go somewhere where it's really tough to play. Maybe Seattle. I'm not sure if they even, did they play Seattle already? I'm not sure. But if they do, there got to be somebody in that caliber for me to pick against them because Wuthermorenix is the elite quarterback that everybody's talking about. They have a recipe over there that's really good. their defense is outstanding. I wouldn't usually go against the Patriots

because they're on the 10-game winning street. But I just think, like me and Mike said, Buffalo is really desperate and their backs against the wall in this situation. But I'm going to want the Broncos to win this game. Yeah, I'm definitely going to go with the Broncos too. But if there ever was a time for Michael Parsons to show up, this is your former guy, Mike.

If there's ever was a time for him to make a difference, this is the game where he gets to prove that the Cowboys didn't get the best. better of this trade this is the time to do that rage bait okay well we will see what happens rage i feel like that was right that's what that would be but mike was real calm about it so shout out to you mike i said that early yeah mike your therapy working yeah it's working i i i think you know what made me feel i'm i'm healed from the michael parson right I watched him when they were playing the game the other day in Green Bay or somewhere.

I said, boy, this nigga looks so cold right now. I know he's thinking, I should have left that warm stadium I have. It's so cold on that field. I was like, okay, you know, because you don't you had eight or nine games in perfect weather so you can chase the quarterback. Now you probably get what, four years. know because it's cold what october is free almost did freezing and in green bay you know so yeah that's why it helped me heal when i saw him looking at cold i was over i'm screaming not the weather okay y'all well that is all the time that we have for today mike you know it's always a pleasure

to have you on the show let's appreciate you guys man you guys know i love you guys and i appreciate I appreciate you guys. Love you as well, brother. Yeah, love you, Mike. Look, look forward to seeing next week. Yes. Thank y'all for watching. And as always, it is what it is.