IT IS WHAT IT IS - SPURS BLOWOUT THE WOLVES IN GAME 5, LEBRON & LAKERS FUTURE & DO WE THINK HIS LEGACY HAS BEEN TARNISHED?!

Episode Date: May 13, 2026

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Okay, we're back at it. Hey, come back to Who It Is What It Is. I'm Treasure Wilson, aka Stap Baby, along with your host, Mace and Cam. And today, we are joined with our analyst, Maurice Claret. Mo was good, killer, what's going on, man? It was good, everybody. How y'all doing? Chilling, chilling. Good, good, Maurice, how are you?

You all is well out here in Ohio. All phenomenal. My spurs, one a night. We good. Hey, Mo. Mo, it was last night with Mo. It's early for that, Mo. And listen, I'm noticing you don't have on any paraphernalia. What are you doing?

You throwing your hands up with Ohio and Yukon? What's going on? Are you jumping ship? Are you in the portal? Well, I told you, the Spurs my squad now, so I've become a San Antonio Spur fan for the meantime. But this is my palm tree. green shirt. I said, I got this

semester palm tree, so all is well, though. Damn, how do you feel about Van Wagon's? This is crazy, killer. That's the real question. I'm mad for them right now. I'm mad form. How do I feel about it?

I'm mad at Mo, but how do I feel about it? Yes. I'm up every day with Ben Wagoners. Mo is just once a week. So, I'm just like that I got to deal with it on a motherfucking Wednesday morning now.

Nah. Like I ain't been dealing with it. So how do I feel about it? What I'm going to do? I'm outnumbered. No, I got this from your way of thinking. Yeah, I just shut up and let everybody do what they're going to do, man.

I'm not even being with. And my team is out. I put, I rode the dice on Kevin Durant. I thought he was going to come through. He got injured, you know, at a later age in life. So, you know, I'm still winning the big E 96es, man. Look at that. I'm still on the team I'm on.

You're on bad boy? Dallie questions. Asked valid questions. That's what the team you was on. Clarity question. Clarity question. That's it. I'm doing a mafia.

I got to be clear. Oh, okay. No, I'm asking. I was a fair question. Yeah, the gloves is off. Okay. Damn, you say you got on the big e-jolice or you say you on the same team you want in 96.

I thought that was legit. That's a legit question. You're trying to get me back. What? I only got no more page of my heart. Okay. Listen, I was about to tell you before you said that, that I'm proud of you for taking accountability

and dealing with one team. I was just about to tell you that before you said that. I had to be clear. Yeah, because you went Gen Z on me, you talk about this is my player. I have a day. You said to you out of play. I was like, let's forget the whole shit at this point, man.

Sitting next to Stats, Stats try to push me in the portal. No, I didn't. You chose Houston on your own. I never said nothing about them. Okay. Because I've been, I think, consistent. You've been consistent now up until, you know, the Nix got in the conversation,

and Maris is just, I don't know. We just can't go with the Nix too early. We just can't do it too early because we know what the Nix will turn around and do. I just can't do it, man. I feel like What I was trying to taste Go ahead Maurice

Now what I was trying to say With to Cam was like I used his logic From a couple weeks ago right Remember when he was breaking down Like the people on TikTok acting crazy He was like Mo you need to get with the Times Well the Times is like Old school people only commit to one 10

So the new times is like You just kind of dance around Or whatever team went in And that's kind of like the logic on Me Picking the Spurs So I'm telling Ken That was actually not the argument I do agree that, I do agree that like it was a thing to stick with one team, but no, the argument was that we go to a team because of specific players.

So that contradicts what you said when you said that you were going for a certain player, but now I know you're just choosing the team that you think is going to win. So heard you, you made that clear and going forward, that's going to make a lot more sense. You had a better chance more of you would have been like stuff on council. I've been telling you, my homie, man. Yes. You just said the winning team. So now we know it's fine. It's cool. Spurs fans will take up with you. Ben Wagon Moe. I guess so, but I can't speak. But obviously we've seen the tone has been set for this episode.

We're going to start with this Spurs and Timberwolves game, which was a pivotal game for both of them. But now the Spurs lead the series, Marisa's team and Cam's team as we see. After beating the Timberwolves 126 to 97, Wembe had 21 points, 11 rebounds in two blocks in the first half, which is a crazy stat line. what did the spurs prove, which is your team? I think it was two things. I think when you've seen the pregame and they start talking about Wembe, you know, not really being involved with media because just how he felt about last game,

and you've seen his face when he was getting ready for warm-ups and just getting prepared for the game. It made me think about how many rumors if you heard about him wanting to be the face of the league, right? And during the first part of the game, you can kind of see the tone that he set, just the dominance, just you name the stat line that he had in the first half, but he really set the tone on basically this is how we're about to play.

I'm trying to win. I'm trying to be great. Like May said before the show, he was like, yo, like, I'm happy back to, when the playoffs are basically back to being competitive. You've even seen what is the name, I kept on messing the name up, Kilden Johnson, him going down to the hole, getting to the pain, throwing his flipper at people, his forearm at people, just playing bully ball. I thought the refs were going to call more whistles when he was doing stuff like that.

But it was him and them actually setting the tone as like, you know, this is how we're about to win. I did get nervous a few times that when Wimby went to the bench, there was like some drop balls. But I never thought that Minnesota, they never played like a team. They never played like team balls like a bunch of individuals just coming down, chucking shots, Ant Man 101. Excuse me, Julius Rand 1-1, and they just never felt like a cohesive unit to where they can basically beat the team. But this was all Wimby. This was Wimby set in the tone. Wimby wanted to dominate him.

Wimby trying to be the greatest player in the NBA. And I'll end with this. I think that statement may come back to Hunt Ant-Man when they talk about somebody trying to be the face of the league. You see that this is where that mentality shows up, that Wemby's trying to be the guy. He wants to prove that he's that guy. He's in the pursuit of greatness. And we always talk about people not trying to be great all the time.

But this is kind of like that animal showing his head, Paul. Wow, that was a good take, Mo. I want to remember one time that Wimby comes down right In the first half, Wembe goes full court And he goes through the legs And starts skipping, pause And then he spent the round and made the layup Wembe looked like Allie Moe out there

It looked like Allie Moe And I know Moe you don't know who that is But the Black Widow At one point It looked like Wimby was looking like Allie Mo out there It's like I never seen somebody that tall with moves like that in their in their bag.

It was sensational to watch. This is the playoff basketball I'm used to, especially from Victorville or what you want to call it, from Tidal Town. This is exactly how it's supposed to look when you make up your mind. This is my league. This is my time. The rest of you are just living in my day. I like when players have that mentality. And it seemed like that's what Victor Wimbabeyamba went out there to do from the

tip off you said it he had it in his mind that it's time to create space everybody thinks they're close and we're not close and it seemed like that was his whole mentality from the jump and all the players that think they're close this is just his second lap that's how that's how i felt about this game he's he's starting to make his way to make a long distance between him and all the players that's on the west coast and i'm really really interested to see what this this san anton your Spurs team is going to look like against O.K.C. Because we might have some new champs, for real. It looked like Ant Manning was outclassed.

It looked like they were playing at a different speed. They didn't belong out there. This was high school varsity versus JV. You know, the one game you get against the varsity team just to see where you're at. It looked like Ant Manon was a JV team. And that's the way it's supposed to look at U.S. 4. 4. I wouldn't expect anything less.

Mo pisses me off. He got nervous when when we went to the bench. What are you nervous about? You got a little nervous. Yo, bro, you haven't even been down that long to get nervous. What do you mean you got nervous, man? Yo, bro, man. Y, you guys make you.

I got a little nervous when Wemby went to the bench. Word. Now you're invested. Yo, man. Y'all thing is killing me, man. Y'all this thing is invested. I got nervous. He got nervous.

Secondly, when you address Kelden Johnson, you talk about, you say the six men of the year, Calden Johnson, when you talk about Kelton Johnson if you're going to be down. If you're going to be down, that's how you address him

when you bring his name up. But yeah, Caldon Johnson came off the bench, and he, you know, I got a breakout game, I believe, in this series. He's been playing a little subpar of this series, but he finally had a breakout game. Everybody in the starting lineup did what they're supposed to do. Marcel, you see what Castle did.

Of course, my man De Aaron Fox, sensational. Champetti, you know, he's the only one in the starting lineup that didn't have double digits. But, you know, stat, the question was, what did this tell me? It told me the series be over if Wimbien didn't get kicked the fuck out last game.

But I'm happy it's not over because there's a lot of series that's over. And this is the time that gets real sad for me this time of year when it's not going to be basketball games every year. We got to wait until Thursday if we're on Monday for a game. Listen, man, I love watching it. But, yeah, I think you had a great take as well, Mo. There's a lot of one-on-one player from, what about the same message,

for Minnesota. And you hit the nail on the head. They wasn't cohesive. They wasn't running plays. Everybody was playing hero basketball. and that's part of the reason why they didn't get done. I do want to say this, man. A kid, Iyo, he's really good, man.

You know, I didn't know about him until the playoffs started last series. But they got a real gem with him in Minnesota, man. You know, we probably didn't hear that much about him because Devinchenzo was getting a chunk of the minutes and he was coming off the bench. But this kid had 40 points already in the playoffs, 30-sut-and-before-20-sett. He didn't have a great game last night.

but I think Minnesota has sudden there. But they don't got Wimby. They don't have 7-4-27.17 rebounds, two, three blocks. They don't got that. And they don't got the niggins. Hmm, what? Fuck off me, nigga. What?

What, nigger? What? Y'all want me not to play? I know. I bet y'all don't want me to play. Adam Silver said different, nigga. So at the end of the day, listen, I think the Spurs absolutely did what they're supposed to.

to do. They won it home, but you got to get one in the road. I wouldn't want this to go seven games. If I'm the Spurs, I want to close this out next game in Minnesota, get this thing over with because in game sevens, anything can happen. If I'm the Spurs, let's wrap this up next game and move on to the Oklahoma City Thunder because Oklahoma City Thunder just sitting home watching. They're actually 10-0 right now in the playoffs. You'll sit here and say 8-0 because they swept Who they sweep in the first round stat? I forget who they swept in the first round. I've been so fucking.

Oh, yeah. Yeah, Dylan Brooks, Dylan, Dylan, Dylan. The villain? Dylan the villain. And my man fucking. Yeah, I ain't counted Jalen Green, but you know, my man, Devin Booker. I was up there, Ruan. And I was like, I was so sad about that.

That seemed like ages ago. Then they just swept the Lakers. So they're chilling. They ate and no this year. But if you're going back to last year, they won their last two playoff games, so they're actually 10-0 in the playoffs when it comes to this, and they're sitting back,

get hype about the next, get hype about Wembe, get hype about, that's their attitude, because they look in like sharks, the smell blood in the water. Think about this, right? This series talking about the Lakers, and I'm now transitioning to the Lakers

and OKC real quick for a second before we move on. They were beating the Lakers by double digits, the first three games, 18 points, 16 points, 18 points, whatever it was. It was double digits. And all those games, Shea Gildre's had under 20 points. This is a person who broke Wilchampling's record

for most consecutive 20-point games throughout the league. I think he came in second only to Luca Donchison's scoring. But he was averaging under 20 points in this series against the Lakers. Until the day before yesterday, when the game got close. And when the Lakers looked like they were trying to make a comeback,

he said, he hit a button. I don't know what SGA button he hit. I don't know whether this Grand Theft order. Listen, the nigger hit a button, and he got into some type of bag that was different, and it was exclusive. It was one of them when you go into the mall, oh, they only made five of these.

When they're trying to sell it to you, it was a different type of bag, and he dropped 35 on them boys. So I think that we talk about all these different. storylines and we send the Oklahoma City Thunder or cruise control. They don't even have J-Dub playing and they're looking sensational. So as good as the Knicks are looking hood, which the Knicks are looking really good, we'll see what happens when San Antonio goes on the road.

We'll see how the Detroit series played out. I think that everybody in O.KC is like, good, don't worry about us. We know what we're doing. Y'all talk it out. Y'all have a soap opera, but we're waiting. But if I'm San Antonio, wrap this thing up in six, don't let it get to seven. Yeah. And another point I wanted to make about San Antonio, I think there's only one mistake they're making, right?

They're playing phenomenal basketball. But I think not interjecting, and I want to note this, clip this Nick, because we may come back to this, that they got to play Harrison Barnesmore. Why? Because when it gets to that championship run, it always boils down to players you think. consider. And I think they're considering the Calvans, they're considering everybody else. But that'll be that player that come back and make the difference

in the team when they have to come on the floor. So I think you've got to have that eight to ten, eight to nine man rotation in order to win a championship. So that's just something I wanted to note it and make sure we add to it. But other than that, they're playing very well. And then I guess to Mesa's point, Maris and Cam, is there anything that you think that they should change or you kind of like how things. I think they're playing.

They're playing. Even though I have some Barnes and get a lot of minutes, he played last game for about 10 minutes. But it's hard when you got Dylan Harper coming off the bench getting 25, 27 points. And then like I said, we talk about Caldian Johnson, the sixth man in the year. I understand what May said, and I'm not disagreeing with him. He may be 100% correct. But when I watch Harrison Barnes, and I don't mean any, I don't mean any,

disrespect when I say this whatsoever. You know how you ain't been out there so long that you'd be like a little jittery to get rid of the balls? You set a pick. Like, yo, this nigga, no, I ain't played all year. And now you want to get me out here to act like I'm in river. So Mason may be correct, but it may be a little too late. Like, yo, you got to get that nigga some minutes.

You can't just throw the nigga out there game six of the semifinals in the west of the conference. You know what I'm saying? Like, don't have experience, but don't, you guys No, that's true. That's true. Yeah, listen, basketball is a real, man. If I, when I used to play basketball, if I didn't play basketball for a week, I'm like,

damn, I'm rusty, my shot is off. Like, a week is a long time when you don't play, when you're a basketball player. Three months is an eternity. Yeah, like, exactly, you know what I'm saying? So, I think Mason is correct when he's saying experience because he does have championship experience.

But that's not. up to the coaster, get him in rotations and practice, so he feels comfortable out there. You can't just go to him when niggas in foul trouble, like, get in there, ain't you a champion? You're a champion, right? Get in there and do championship shit. Yeah.

You gotta get him some minutes and get them in a rotation and practice. And I do it. Yeah. I was thinking about that because, you're right, they've been playing very well. And when it's teams like this, when it's a blowout game, pause, that's when you put them in.

And this is where you're supposed to play is, it's 97 and 26, so they could have found them like 10 more minutes because this game been over. That was close, like Mo said. They was making runs and they was cutting into two points, cutting into four points. They pulled away towards the end of the, towards the middle, fourth quarter, end of the fourth quarter.

Yeah, but it wasn't that close. You know, it's one of them scores that you'd be like, they blow them out, but it's one of them shit where they keep their tight. to about five minutes. So it's like, it's like this, right? You know how you, like, let's say you have five and niggas cut it to two. Then you go up seven,

then niggas cut it to four. Then you go up 12 and niggas cut it to seven. You like almost scared to take the starters out because you're like, these niggas is making a little run. It's like the other night when Cleveland was playing Detroit, right? Cleveland was up 20-something points were like two and a half minutes left in the game. They took the starters out

niggas cut it to eight seven, eight points with like 49 seconds left to where they had to put Donovan Mitchell back and James Hart and back in the game and you're like, yo, nigga, oh, y'all could have just let the shot clock kept to the violation for 24 seconds

and the clock would have ran out but Detroit had them little gremlins on their ass and had these things taking the ball and making steals and tried to make a game out of it. But yeah, you know, having championship experience does matter, So that's up to Miss Johnson to get my niggins some minutes in practice. So when he gets in the game, he feels comfortable.

Yeah. Then Marie said you have a point. It sounded like you did before I move on. Yeah, but no, that was the point I was making earlier. When Wimbi Yama was coming out of the game, there was nobody sort of like expanding the lead or taking over the game. And that's when they was allowing Minnesota to come back in, pause and be competitive.

But it made me think that when you go play OKC, somebody who has a deep bench and, you know, eight to nine dudes in the rotation, OKC ain't going to let up and they're, they'll widen that gap while when Biamma's on the bench. Or if you neutralize Wembeama and you try to contain them as much as you can, OKC, you'll need somebody else on the Spurs roster to put points or supplement to stuff that Wembeama isn't doing. That's the point I was making when I said it made me nervous because I started thinking, like who they'll play next, you know, assuming that they'll beat Minnesota.

Yeah, and being that they got so many great slacks. on that team they got a bunch of I mean at least three guys that could elite level get to the basket right so you got these slashes in Castle and Harper and and you could say Calden as well when you got when you got somebody like like Harrison Barnes that could spot up and knock down threes that's all they have to do you want to get that person going because that'll come in to be an advantage over any team you play let's say they're playing the Knicks and somebody gave heard or they start double teaming people. They start double team in Wembe. You need that person that, you know, 100% of the time, we know Harrison Barnes can knock down a three. Or at least that's what his reputation says. And you want to have that extra weapon in your arsenal when it comes to these mighty West Coast conference finals. Yeah, good points. We don't want to see a Rusty Barnes, so hopefully they will give them a little bit more minutes to get back into that groove as we see these next games go along. But now we're going to go on to the Lakers because we talked about

that sweep. And as we know, there's a lot of what ifs right now. So J.J. Reddick says, I'll repeat what Rob said. Of course, we want that chord to be back together when referencing Luca, LeBron, and Austin Reeves. But Maurice, after this season, do you actually think it would be in the Lakers' best interest to kind of break this tree up or you want to see them go on and run? Like, what are your thoughts on them three? Yeah, I want the trio to say together just because I want LeBron's career to him better than getting swept twice. I just my personal deal. But as a businessman, what LeBron making the money he makes and thinking about the future of the franchise and thinking that ownership has just switched and you have the controlling piece in there being with the new owners, I think that that's going to be a strong.

I think from a PR standpoint, Rob Polinka, who probably has a relationship with LeBron and JJ Redick, who has a relationship with Little LeBron. I think from a PR standpoint, I think they're saying like, hey, we want him back, right? And we would like this thing to be together. But there's something in that statement that makes me believe that you're saying that because ownership may not think the same.

And so the people who bought the Lakers, these are businessman. You know, they probably love LeBron for what he is, but it's like, you know, everybody ages out at some point. And then when you're spending $50 million on somebody, you know, for one player, you can help to build a roster around Luca, Austin Reeves, and other people, and give JJ Redik's career. And so selfishly, I want LeBron to stay there and better and to get other pieces, but I don't know how you do it mathematically unless LeBron takes a huge pay cut, you know what I'm saying, which I don't think that he's going to do to then move on. So I don't know. That's my thoughts on it.

Hey, Mo. Before I go and give my. explosive take. What two times are you referring to that LeBron has been swept twice? We got stuck this year and last year, right? Okay, no, I'm just making sure I want to start with the past. All right. So the last two seasons you get swept. I'm ready to say, yeah, whatever it is.

I'm ready to say I'm over it. It doesn't matter if it's one time is one time too many for me, because this is the Lakers, this is not the Bobcats, this is not the Hornets, this is the mighty Los Angeles Lakers. This is the second greatest team in the NBA, right? So other than Boston, Boston may have more championships than them. This is not the competitive pedigree that this type of franchise can even accept. They can't accept it.

I echo the sentiments of Byron Scott is just, There's no way that we could give $50 million, and we get swept. It's just not what we can afford to be doing. I know there's teams that do it, but you can't do this in L.A. L.A. is too rich of a city. It's too powerful of an organization. And I'm glad that we can end this goat conversation. It is finally finished to all of the people out there that will love to bring this up,

from ESPN to Dreamers Pro to just everybody, all. of you guys that's out there to have this conversation, we could finally let this rest. And I know now how to see LeBron and I know how to see Michael Jordan and I want to give you my sentiment right now if you'll let me share. Can I share this with your stat?

Go ahead. Mo, this is how I look at it. I had a long time to think about this. In fact, last week, when I was resting, I was trying to figure this out. How do I give LeBron this credit without demises? what he's done or diminishing what he's done.

And I said, and it dawned on me. I see LeBron like, let me see who LeBron is. LeBron is like Obama. And then Jordan is like Martin Luther King. You would never say Obama was better than Martin Luther King. You wouldn't even say LeBron or Obama is better than my. Malcolm X, right, as black leaders, right? But it's still Obama.

He rose to this great height in today. People love him for what he did today. But let's stop equating those two together. It's disrespectful to what this guy had to do it in that time. And it lets you see the difference of the time and the structure when they had to do it, and the oppression which they had to do it against. And that's how I'm going to see it. So from now on, I can acknowledge that LeBron is the first to do this,

and he's the first ever have this. But don't ever in your life put Obama past Martin Luther King. Don't ever do it. It just doesn't make sense. And I'm going to rest with that. I want to add something before you go, KAM. Sorry, just because I want to be clear. So he got swept 2023 versus the Nuggets,

and obviously this year versus OKC. That was with the Lakers. and then I know people are going to keep bringing this up. Jordan did get swept, but it was the best of five. So 1986 and 1987 by the Celtics. So I want to add those two. George got swept twice in the first round. I want to.

It was my go too, but he got swept twice. I want to add those two. In the first ring, not the second ring. But I don't know I didn't want to last stuff. Yeah. My apologies, I thought I was wrong with that, but I pulled it up. I was just waiting for everybody from his talking. Go ahead.

No, I'm finished, though, because even with the sweeping, Joy never got swept when he started going on that run. After he started going on that run, it was everything in the rearview mirror, not in his last days that he get swept. But I don't want to focus in on the sweep. I just want to keep it on the legacy and the strength of who these people are. This is Martin Luther King. This is Obama.

That's how I'm going to see it. Obama is great. He's the first black president. He had two terms. But I don't see that as comparable with Mon Luther King or Malcolm X. That's how I'm going to explain it to people that are very intelligent. Intelligence. Mon Luther King, Bernard King, Burger King, nigger.

LeBron is nice, my nigga. And Michael Jordan got swept twice in the first round. You could put it at the end of the career. And Michael George is my goal. I'm just looking at the other side equation. Michael Jordan got swept beginning of career. Michael, LeBron got swept at the end of his career. LeBron's 41 years old with two niggas who actually didn't even play the whole fucking playoffs.

Lucas out the whole players. Austin Reed comes in back and look at half-ass when he comes back. So you're missing 57 points per game on the floor. Who played? LeBron played. LeBron selected up and played. I mean, nobody's healthy 100% this time of year. I don't care what team you are.

But he ain't make no excuses and sit out. not saying that Luca's making excuses or Austin Reed's making excuses, but he got KD out of here. I'm not going to say KD because KD only played one game. But I'm just saying KD's team, you're going to put Houston under Katie, even though he ain't played. But I give him LeBron credit. I'm not ever putting him above Michael Jordan, not at this moment.

But I'm not going to sit here and act like what he's done isn't great either. I give him more credit for coming out there and playing. and participate. You just went up against some young, young dogs, man. You saw out there, my nigga, jingles. The Lakers were the players this year, man. Jingles, you'll get 26 points, 27 points. You're going to pack you up, though, my nigga.

That's just the way it is, man. The players aren't going to win, my nigga. And that's what LeBron James I had to deal with. You got Anthony Aiton buying chains, showing off chains down 03. He on Instagram talking about, you'll look at my new chain. Niggas is on the sidelines. I don't know people who was watching the series.

You see how people on his own team was yelling at him on the sideline when he gets something? I like, when are you going to grab a motherfucking rebound, my nigga? You 8 foot 9, grab a fucking rebound. He couldn't get a rebound, man. But as an organization, I do agree with what Mason said. It's unacceptable for the Lakers. It's the Lakers as an organization. And as far as keeping the three players together,

That's the question. Yes. No, I want people to govern neither because at the end of the day, it's not going to get it done. I like Luca. I fuck with Luca. And I think Luca's a – he liked the league in scoring second to Michael Joy and then playoff points average in this young career. But on defense, he's a liability. Do you know when Luca got hurt, Statt, Moe Mason?

Do you know who – do you know who they was playing when Luca got hurt? No. O.K. You know when he got hurt? When O.K.C. went up 25. Mm-hmm. Nigger said, this is what's about to come, nigga.

Ow, my leg! Playoffs in a week and a half. Ow, my leg. Yeah, all right, nigga. With Luca, they wasn't going to beat OKC. And I'm not saying, Luca, wouldn't help get them a game or two. I think they would have probably went five, six,

but OKC was on a different type of time. It was OKC that was beating up on the Lakers when Luca got hurt. And he got hurt when they went on a crazy run and go up 20 points or something, I believe when I was watching this shit. And I believe that they were saying, okay, because you got to realize

the Lakers since February 8th, since the All-Star break, went on 20 and 9 with a nine-game winning streak. They went from 6th place to 3rd place. So the niggas talk, oh, the Lakers, Micah, Mike, make some noise. Oh, Joe, you see the Lakers?

They're on a nine-game, yo, they're looking good. Word, that's what y'all thinking, this O'KC. Word. I bet. Mark the calendar since the nakes fill in the Lakers the last three weeks. Let's show you what we're going to do to them niggas with Luca. And that's what Luca got hurt. But to answer your question stat, should they stay together?

No, I don't think that those three are going to get it done against the San Antonio Spurs or Oklahoma City Thunder. This is a young man's league and there's young Piran is out here right now. Your OKC is young. San Antonio is super young. And we have the top two teams. And you're looking at LeBron James at 41. I like what LeBron said.

He said, look, you all think about this for LeBron too. Like I said, he said he's never been a third option in his life. He said, but he did what he had to do for the team. I went third option. Then when Luca go down and Osterese go down, he's back to the number one option. I think LeBron's a great basketball player. You know, people come to this beef with him and Jordan. Like I said, I want to be clear, I'm always Jordan.

Because we like killers. LeBron's an assassin. Kobe Bryant's an assassin. LeBron's an all-around basketball player. He's a past first, shoot, second type nigger. When Jordan is a nigger, it's me in the, and it's me. I believe sometimes Jordan and Kobe Bryant in their brain, they say, it's me against against 11 niggas, not 12 niggas.

His teammates, the five niggas on the other team and the referees. It's Jordan in the basketball and that's it. And the rim, pause, that's all joy. And he's an assassin. And I just think LeBron's an all-round basketball player. Will I take Jordan, I want a killer. I want a sniper, absolutely.

But the end of the day, to answer your question stat, no, this three is not gonna make it. This is a young man's league. You got the number two seed, which is San Antonio Spurs, super duper young. You got the number one seed who just won a championship, super duper young. They got to get some youth on that team, and they got to get some youth that can help out, not just be young. You got to be young and good because you got the top two Cs in the Western Conference that's young and really, really good.

So this is a question for all, y'all, before we go to break, because just looking at the contract. Luca is under contract through 2028, avoiding 2026 free agency. Austin Reeves has a player option, which we know he can decline and become a free agent or just get that bag. Then we got LeBron, who's an unrestricted free agent. So when I know we're saying, like, you know, we've got to break it apart. We need younger players.

It's like, do we move on from LeBron? Like, Maris, what do you think the option should be here? What do you see happening if we're going to predict it? Yeah. I mean, I think Cam said it, but I think the, the factors that they'll weigh in is that you have OKCNWMBiyama here, right? And then you say, how long do we delay this process of starting over? You know what I'm saying?

That's really the question. And the sooner you get to it, the sooner you get fast, or the sooner you get over it, or at least you try to build a team that can become competitive because both of those teams are young, both of those teams are very good, and you have to start figuring something out, and it has to be with younger players.

So you have to move on. Yeah. I think when it comes to, LeBron is like when it comes to Janus, it's not only do we have to move on from this player, but we got to consider their family too. So it's like if you keep LeBron, you got to keep Brony. So that is a one-two thing they have to think about. If you keep Janus, you got to keep Janus and his brothers.

So at that point that we're not winning, the extras become a very hard thing to do. And I'm just trying to be an objective voice because when I think of this scenario, I'm constantly thinking about guys like Kobe, people who are not here to speak for themselves. So somebody got to speak for them. If I'm Kobe and I'm alive right now, I'm like, bro, you guys are very disrespectful.

You're very disrespectful to put people above me like I wasn't here, like I didn't do all of the things that I've done. Or Magic Johnson with Five Rings. I mean, according to, To these Lakers that I know, you have to go. Because these are guys who got it done and they were gracious enough to know when to leave. You got to know when to get out of there. I think if I was LeBron, I'm out of there.

I wouldn't even lead this up to the organization. I would say I'm out of here. Just for dignity and clarity's sake and not that he doesn't have class. LeBron is very classful. His family is very top tier. I'm just being an objective voice to make sure that on his, panel, we have both voices. Kobe ain't get shit done without Shaq or the

nigger Pal Gasat. And you don't got either one of them niggas. You may got a Palisal when Luke is playing, but Luca they ain't play. Kobe was in a drought. You know, in between Shaq and Palisal, Kobe was just like, what are we going to do?

I don't know if you remember. Kobe was trying to go to Chicago. He's like, I want to get the fuck out of here, bro. Shack guy can crazy and they end up getting rid of Shack. But Kobe was trying to go to Chicago. It's just that Jerry West ended up keeping him instead of Shack. And I think that was a smart decision because we know that Kobe Bryant passion to win is phenomenal.

But it don't matter if Michael Jordan, you don't win without help. You got to have help. And I'm not saying, no, I had to take what I was saying that LeBron did a good, you know, it was a great question is, how you feel LeBron is a Laker? I think he did a good job as a Lakers. Is he the all-time Great Lakers? Absolutely not. No, you're not going to be considered with Magic Johnson.

You're not going to be considered with Byron Scott, James Worthy, Kobe Bryant, Shaquille O'Neill, Jerry West. No, you're just not. But did you do good for the time he was there? You won a championship. And some people don't count that. So to agree with Mace, I don't think that it's good to be at the Lakers. not because of he can't play with the Lakers

or the Lakers organization. I'm just thinking about me. If I'm 42 years old or about to be 42 during next season, I need to win. I ain't out here. I can go exercise at any time, my nigga. I'm not out here trying to exercise. I'm not saying go join the fucking Oklahoma City Thunder.

But maybe you should go back east and figure it out with, you know, when they said that with the calves or something, listen, man, it's going to be tough on the West. And you're 42. You need to get with, you know, somebody who may have a chance to win wait. Because if I'm on the tail end of my career, which we don't know when LeBron's retiring, bro, my nigga, I can't just be out here running up and there to be running up and down, bro.

I can't. So I don't think he should stay with the Lakers either because I don't see anything positive to get them over the hump if you're a 42-year-old. Yeah, if you add them to that Cleveland, Cavaliers team as is, that's a championship team. That's a team that definitely goes to the championship on the East Coast. Definitely, when you got James Harder, you could finally get James a ring. Donovan Mitchell is still getting 30s and 50s.

You got the front court that you need it. I mean, and all you have to do is come in and do be regular LeBron. The other thing about this too, like, I think that's great what you just. just adding on the sudden. Like, niggas getting old. This James Hart is 17th year. It's just not seeming like it. James Hart ain't no small fucking spring chicken

neither. Niggas is getting old, bro. It's just that niggas is still looking decent past the age that we used to be used to see a niggas playing. Think about Isaiah Thomas, 32 years retired. Charles Barkley, 36 years retired. Even later in life,

D. Wade retires at 36 years old. So when you got somebody like LeBron James, Kevin Durant, Steph Curry, James Harton, looking good, 35 years old and older. Steph Curry's going to be 38, 39. Same thing with Kevin Durant. They look

are sensational. These niggas want to win. You know what I'm saying? You got to think about, yo, how much time do I really have left? I need to figure this shit the fuck out. If you just want to go on a retirement tour the next two years and wave by to everybody in arena,

like, I appreciate y'all. Kind of like what Kobe did. his last year. You know, Toby did the retirement tour, and you knew Kobe wasn't going to win, but he's like, I'm out. I'll feel you, but if you're trying to win, you got to go somewhere and pick a team, man,

and to try and get it done. Cleveland might be the team, maybe. Maurice. I got a question. Yeah, I had a question. And, like, just hearing them talk, maybe thinking of a couple things, right? As Mace was talking,

I thought about how, as generations pass and people pass, like whatever the mentality of the moment is and whoever defines greatness, it feels like as times with Owen and LeBron has stuck around, the conversation for what's popular or what is the goat has changed. If that makes sense,

I don't know if I'm saying that kind of clear enough. And oftentimes it makes me think of like, when I think about LeBron and what people talk about the goat debate, this has always been a question of mine, right? I just thought about it now. You'll have the conversation about championships. You'll have the conversations about playing

and all the phenomenal stuff he's done. But from two people who are popular, you know, when you're an artist, people are charismatic and people want to be like you emulate themselves, like you dress like you style, like you, whatever. What is it about LeBron or what doesn't he have that doesn't make people want to be like him in comparison to somebody like Michael Joran,

Alan Arverson, somebody who's impacted black culture in particular? Because I think oftentimes when people talk about LeBron and I'm from Ohio, you know, we're 30 minutes, away from each other. They don't talk about him where they want to be like him. They'll say, I respect what he's done, right? But I've never been from y'all vantage point of people who got people who want to be like, you, dress like you, and who impact the culture. And I think one thing that it's like a gap in hold they talk about is like he doesn't impact black culture like other people or he doesn't have the mentality that represents black struggle. And I don't know if that's

the right word. Y'all, y'all have been around me long enough to kind of get what I'm saying. Yeah, this is a perfect segue, pausing to what it is I probably wanted to talk about at a much later date. The thing that you're talking about is what I pay attention to is what Cam mentions, and sometimes it gets lost in the conversation, right? Because LeBron does have the stats. That's why I used Obama. He has better stats. He has better stats when it comes to certain things.

versus Martin Luther King, but on impact alone, he's not. Why? Because it took less and less time this was done, right? I measure greatness on the timing it took you or the resources it takes you to do something, right? That's what makes something greater for me. If it takes you 40 years and you get more done, great. But if this person was able to do and be in a conversation with you with only 10 years or only five years.

I'm just giving you the concept of where I'm getting this from. That tells me this is greater. Why? It took less to do it. Or let me give you another thing that I'm speaking of. Let's say, and you speaking of us, like as rappers, right? Let's say Cam has a great legacy. I have a great legacy.

And this other guy has a greater legacy than us. But if we figure out that he was, you know, doing some, inappropriate things and that helped him to get what he got, then you're not as great even though people think you're great because come to find out, like we're watching people's legacy now. If it comes out that you did all of these things, we have to conclude that into the legacy conversation. And at that point, I don't think you're great

if you had to have a boyfriend to get to that level and rap. I don't think you're great. if you were sitting on men lapsed and then jacuzis with men to get to that level. I can't deem that as great, especially when other people just did their own writing or did their own rapping. That's a total different level of greatness to me. And I know we're living in the world that it seemed like things come out later and it makes sense. But to me, that's the way I'm speaking from. I'm speaking from the aspect of the people who put in the work,

that didn't play the political games, that didn't do things behind the scene to make things what they are on the scene. That's where I'm speaking from. And I know that's a coded statement, but it's a lot of truth behind that. It's coming out now that these guys got home runs, but they was on this.

Or this person was doing this. That's why he's there. That's not the same greatness. So when you hear me speaking, that's where I'm speaking from. I'm not speaking from just, like, hating on somebody or trying to belittle somebody's legacy. If we think we're measuring it on basketball alone,

but it's not on basketball alone, then I can't wait at the same. It's just not the same, not for me. And that's never going to change for me. I don't know where he went with it. To answer your question, Mo, if you... That's why the intelligence thing. because it was clear what I said.

Because you went all over the place. No, that wasn't all over the place. That was all strategically line upon line. Nah, he asked you like with me. Because, you know, it seems like you keep trying to say LeBron is on steroids. That's what it seems like. No, I'm saying there's other things that goes into the picture.

It seems like you're trying to belittle my intelligence at the same time when you keep saying it's an intelligence thing. It just seems like, I get it. Yeah, if you can't get that, that is an intelligence. Now, maybe our intelligence is two different levels, but I just, you keep saying this like the third time you said today.

It's an intelligence thing. And I'm like, what do you mean about that, that you're more intelligent than me? If you feel that way. No, not, it's not you. It's anybody that can't get the conversation. That's what intelligence is. If you're saying one plus one is two, if somebody say he has two and he has two,

the next person should say together, that's for it. That's not a point. It's not an intelligence thing. That's more about, that's your logic. That's because to me, I'm just saying, like, it's just a debate. I'm not beefing now. I'm just saying, like, you, to me, Mason, it was like, you went into a whole spill about rapping and writing,

and I understand that you went through a lot of shit, so I understand where you're coming from. So I know a lot. Rare, absolutely. I'm not saying that you don't know a lot. But we was talking about while LeBron isn't connecting with as far as, like, somebody, Michael Jordan or now that

was. So when you did all that, I still kind of didn't understand what was your point on why he's not connecting with people. Because I said, I used the analogy and that, this is great. I used the analogy

of rap because it's the same reason why some rappers connect more. They did certain things behind the scene, which is making them connect more, but it's not just based upon their talent. It's It's the other thing, it's the smoke and mirrors that make the tension get shifted to something else. And then it becomes a part of their legacy when really the real thing that we're talking about is not the thing that's pumping them up to this place.

Like, for an example, and that could seem like all over the place, like somebody like LeBron, we're asking the conversation about basketball. But then it'll turn into what he does for his niggers and what he did for the school. but we're not asking about the school. We're asking about basketball. We're not asking about nothing else. But then when the conversation goes forward, that's what people turn it into. All the other things.

When we talk about Michael Jordan, we're talking about basketball. We're not talking about this gambling. We're not talking about his dad getting killed. We're talking about basketball. Not anything else outside of that. And that's how the goalpost keeps getting moved. That's why I use the example of,

of Obama because Obama is great because of being a black guy and all these other things that get pushed into the conversation. But if we're talking about leadership, leadership is about where you were able to take the people and the adversity you went through to get them there, and did you get them to the place you promised them? And that's why I use Martin Luther King because he brought us to the place he promised us.

That's it. Yeah, Beau, I think that the reason why LeBron don't connect is because it was other shit outside of basketball. You could be the best rapper in the world, but nigger don't want to dress like you. Nigger don't want to be like you. You go in the booth and the nigger could come smoke you, but they don't want to be like you.

When you see Alan Avicent, right, you see Alan Aviccson, right? Alan Avicin came into the league with cornrows. Niggins in the hood was like, yo, he got the cornrows. Yo, he got the tattoos. Yo, his album is coming out. People gravitate to that.

To this day, people will still be like, you know, Alanavis, et cetera, to the point where Davis Stern was like, now everybody in the league got to wear a collar. Nah, this niggas wild. You got to wear a collar. We talk about Michael Jordan, brought up Michael Jordan.

Niggas is wearing his shoes today. I got on joins right now. That's why I went to look. You got on Jordans. So when you have somebody that wants to be like somebody outside of what they're doing, I think that counts. When we talk about people in Dipset, right, I used to say the best lyricist, one of the best, it's no slight at him, no disrespect.

I used to think that one of the best lyricists was J.R. writer in Dipset, lyricist-wise. But that didn't mean that niggas didn't want to dress like Jim Jones. You understand what I'm saying? They want to have the chain on their belt. They want to wear the rock and roll shit. You know what I'm saying? and Jim got way better. I think Jim got better over the years,

but I'm talking about when we first started lyricist-wise, J.R. Riter was great. But did you want to wear what J.R. was wearing? Not necessarily matters. When you got all that in one mode, that's what really counts, my nigga. You're nice in the booth, and you make niggas want to be like you.

I want to get a motherfucker, EPMD hat because EPMD had the fisherman hat or the link, this that, and the third. So when you brought up LeBron James and you say this, right, it's like, damn. And there's no sight to LeBron. I don't mean no disrespect. Whatever I think. No, no, because I'm about to say, do I want to wear what he's wearing?

Do I see him and I'll be like, yo, I got to get what LeBron got going on. Not saying some people don't. Some people might do that. They might actually do that. I'm just saying from when you look at the standpoint, I remember Mike was playing. You're like, oh, look at the sneakers he got on. I got to get him. I'm saying. I'll give you the last point

of this. It don't even got to be you don't even got to be doing good on the court. John Morant sneakers sell out in three minutes because people fuck with him. Whether he's shooting guns on the court, doing a band grenade, whatever. His new sneakers

come out, they hot, they sell out in three minutes. Nothing positive, no message, no big story behind it. No intelligence, nothing. They fuck with it. John Moran, they fuck with it,

Sneaker sell out. And you got niggas who want to be like that. You got NFL players who want to do albums and they make it fucking $50 million a year but they want to be a young boy NBA. When people can grasp on to what you're doing outside of sport and you can do good in what you're doing,

I think that's when you combine everything. Everybody doesn't get that. So just to answer your question, Mo, and be specific on what you was talking about. You basically was asking, why didn't LeBron have that edge factor? And I think when you brought up Allen Navison, it was more than just basketball. It was people appreciate his story. He just got out of jail. He went to George Taylor.

John Thompson came to get him. When it comes to Michael Jordan, to this day, his sneakers are the most popular Nikes that were ever made to the point where they'd be like, just give them the Jordan brand, nigga, God damn. Nobody want them jump man's sheds. But it got to that point where they're like, yo, listen, we ought to just skip the nigger's own label

at the sneaker company. And I think that's what really matters. No, that was a great take what Killer said. Like he said, it's not, in that aspect, it's not about intelligence, it's not about all other stuff that he shared. That was a very powerful take. I think those guys just connect

because they were honest. like everybody he mentioned has an honesty to them whether it was whether it's good or bad like he said it doesn't have to be positive but it was honest i think that's why most people connect when you think about people in general whether it's camp whether it's me when you're being honest to who you are it's going to connect nobody has to agree with it but when when it's a honesty there people will be like i like this there that gravitate you to that honesty and you don't have to that honesty and you don't have to know the truth, but you can sense the truth. That's just like any person listening to anybody's... Who's not honest, Mace?

That's what I'm trying to figure out. No, I was just saying, like, Jiamerent, when you speak about Jiamer, whether he's doing the gun or whether he's doing the grenade, that's honest to who he is. But most question is about LeBron James. That's my opinion that he doesn't come across honest with me. Okay, okay.

That's what I'm boiling down to it. But I'm making sure I give the whole... layout of it so it's not like I'm just throwing out a random statement. But the way you explain it, and I'm not saying you, let's explain it right, you just never said it until just now. So that's why we, I keep asking like, so LeBron just doesn't come off honesty. Yeah, but I don't want to just say he doesn't come across honest without giving you all of the layers of different people that you named that come across honest. AI is who he is, right? He's honest about who he is.

30 years later, he's still wearing the cornrows. he still may have on a Gucci bucket. Right, it's not years went by and he's somebody different. He's always been that person. It's not for the camera. It's not just like me. I could be this person, but then I could be another person. But if I'm, when I'm just outlandishly what I believe,

that's when I'm being most honest, and that's where I'm going to work better. That's for any person. That's not just LeBron. So I'm just wondering, now I want to know. What does he do that doesn't come across honesty? Just like, just like, and I like explaining it through an example, so you can see what I'm saying.

Like Will Smith does men in black, he does all of these things. So then when Will smacks Chris Rock, everybody is like, wow, Will Smith smacked Chris Rock. But that's really who Will Smith is. is this other persona is what he did to get money. You know, so just like when I'm outspoken, that's really who I am. Smiling and dancing is not really who I am. That's a part of who I am.

Anybody that knows me, no, I'm going to be this way until it goes left, and when it goes left, I can handle going left. That's really who I am. But this bright, bubbly person is who they bought. So you had to give them more of what they've. bought the same thing with LeBron. This bubbly image is not, it doesn't come across as who he is. That's what the NBA bought.

So I just want to ask. Does that make sense? Yeah. I understand what I'm trying to say. Not that it's true. Yeah. I understand what you're saying and I don't think anybody's trying to make you change your perspective, but obviously like on the show when we're speaking to an audience, for some

people it's translating, for some people it's not. But when you say these claims that you personally feel to back up what you're specifically saying. And then I think, like, Cam is also asking good follow-up question. It's like, what is it exactly that makes you think this about that person? Because when it comes, like, I know you're using examples of other people. I just said it. I said it's his, what he's presenting to the people doesn't come across as true to me.

It comes across as this is what you need to be to be in front of the NBA. Yeah. Which I understand what you're saying, and I think that's clear. I think my question kind of is because you're basically saying it doesn't seem authentic. It doesn't seem genuine. Does it not feel like people can change when they get in a certain position or level? I know you're saying, you know, across the NBA, this is how it comes across. But I mean, I think when you are in different environments and you're around different people and you're seeing kind of where you want your legacy to go, is it not valid to say that that perspective or your mindset can change?

And this is the part of the part that I'm saying that it's a common. of the minds, right? Because if what you're talking about is not the question, the question is what makes them not come across like that? I perfectly shared what makes them come across like that. Now the question is, well, but can a person change? That wasn't the issue question. If we would have loaded the first question with that,

then what I'm saying would be a different answer. Can somebody change 100%? Can I change midstream and say, yeah, I don't want to do this. I want to do that. 100%. But then because you change midstream, that is the part of the reason

why people wouldn't believe Mace. So if I am held to the same standard, who am I not to share that same standard after that same standard has been applied to me? If I say I'm a rapper, now I want to go to church. Well, you can't do both.

You can do both, but if you change midstream, Is that going to make some people think you weren't genuine? Yes. Well, to some, because I would also argue that it doesn't make you disingenuine because I think just because you started out one way or we know you is this, because you decide to take a different path or you speak to the media differently or you change whatever your values may have been have changed, I don't think that makes you inauthentic.

I think that people are allowed to have layers. And I think that that's a layer as part of them that can be seen as good or can be seen as bad. So circling it back. Yeah, so circling it back to LeBron, and that's why I'm not discrediting what you say, and I'm not saying I disagree with what you say. It is a follow-up question to understand the mindset that you're having,

not even just for us up on this panel, but for the audience as well. That was my follow-up question to what you were saying. No, that was a great question. That was a great question. I'm not refuting it. I'm just trying to add clarity to it. So for a time, for a season, and for a space, that time, you will be looked at a different way.

So maybe this is the time period in which LeBron has looked at a different way for me. That could change. But I'm just trying to be honest to what it is that I see and what it is that I believe. I think that's what I'm here for, right? To say honestly what I believe

and what I think. Yo, Mo, you know, Braun, you think he like that? Because I know the nigger, too. I don't get that from him. just asking you your opinion from growing up with him. Do you get that? Do I get what in particular? That he's not a real nigga when he's on TV. That's what Mace is basically. And Mace's not saying he's right to wrong. He said that's how he's perceiving it.

I'm asking you from somebody who knows him. Do you get that? Yeah, well, I think it's two things. I'm going to say, we'll answer your question. I'm going to say two things and bring it back. I do think, because I want to say this, but I don't want to interrupt you or Mace. I do think when we forever have the goat conversation I do think we have to put the disclaimer in there about impact on black culture because I think that influences people in their head, but they never say it. And as I was talking up here with y'all, I just, I'll say that I think we always have to talk about impact on black culture. I think people kind of wait at depending on when they came up and what they're saying. Then to what Mace was saying, I just want to make sure I heard him right.

And I'll be sure to answer your question. What Mace, I think he was saying was that the image that was marketed to people, an image that sale isn't necessarily who someone is. And so the thing that isn't connecting is, that's not who he is. And so there will never be some, like, the energy, that, that connectivity that you'll never have that because that's not the real thing. And I think he kind of illustrated it through the Will Smith thing. I would kind of piggyback on that to say,

I think that he's got into a space where he's had to play that thing because that thing produced most results in regards to finances and everything else. but then I can also say sometimes you end up playing a role that you end up turning to that person and you don't know how to be normal per se and it's just because you have so much success doing the thing and that may be the thing that doesn't connect it. I don't know if I'm right.

It's just my opinion. No, that's 100% what I'm saying. You said it maybe a better way than I shared it, but that's exactly what I'm alluding to. This is the persona that made the most money, but that's not genuinely who you are or who you desire be.

Yeah, so, so, and I would, I would add to it by when Cam is being the self, like, I'm, I was out today and I was speaking at, um, a wardens convention. Now, this is these are wardens of all the Ohio prisons, but these people are playing me clips from the show because no matter what goes on in the show, the people who are wardens of prisons see themselves as they still see themselves inside of you all having fun on the show. Like, they can see themselves in Cam, they can see themselves in Mason, And they have that.

That's the authentic part that people feel connected to. They feel like it's one of me doing that. And then as I asked all that question, I was like, well, maybe the person that's sold to the public and the reason he doesn't connect is because people don't feel that they can be that person. That may be in Allen Iverson. Alice I came on the court.

He's playing basketball. He hooping a nigga guy corn rolls in his head. You're like, yo, that's me on the court or somebody who I would like to be or somebody from my neighborhood. And so I don't know if I answered your question, Cam, but hopefully I did. but just give an example. And y'all two talking back and forth,

help me clear things in my mind. I just think that you know him better than I know him. Yeah. And I just was asking you that question because you know them, like you said, you grew up around him, and I just want to ask you, does it seem like he's putting on a persona?

You wouldn't know better than anybody up here. When you see him on. So, like, yeah, that's like a loaded question because to a point, depending on what he's trying to accomplish. Like, the short answer is yes. I'll say that. Just to clarify, yeah.

I think he's putting on a persona, but it's the persona that makes him the most money. And it's like the ends justify the means. And I don't say that in like a harsh way or like a distorting. It's just, yes, this is the attitude or the mentality or what I have to do to make the money and the business side of it, right? But then the question I was asking about earlier, like I can't say this better. And I don't, not like in a racist way, but black connectivity matters in sports when you, when we grow up and people wanting to be nice. You know what I'm saying?

Like, this is your fan base. This is the people who root for you. This is the people when y'all first start rapping. Y'all rapping versus each other. It wasn't about money. It's about being nice and the influence you have all your friends. And I'm doing this thing better than you. And that's how we define greatness.

You know what I'm saying? And your mentality towards losing and fighting back and winning and all that shit. And so the shorter answer is yes. But then him doing that has birthed Rich Paul, has birthed Maverick Carter, have birthed Randy and so many other things. So I do get the Obama and the MLK thing. Like that's what I'm saying.

Right there what you just said. You went into what Rich Paul and everybody else. And that's where the conversation keeps being lost. But I 100% understand that. Yeah. So that's not, but that's not to say, that's not to dog him or to diss him or anything like that. That's just to say like, you know, somebody will give you. I always say like, you know,

So as information change, your mind can change, right? And somebody gives you a perspective how to see something. You say, okay, like, I can kind of see how you separate it. And I think, like, that's what media is about. You can have different conversations or you have somebody to challenge how you think. And it's like, it's very mature to say, okay, I thought about it one way before. Now I changed my mind as I have new information. But I've never thought about it like that.

But the reason I even put the question on the list today, but like, how do we define the goat or how do we find the best ever, I think that, you know, as we have this conversation, we need to have like the same inputs in regards to, you know, what we're judging or what we're talking about. Yes. What you just shared was 100% what I was stating,

you said it much, much better. Yeah. Go ahead, killer. Well, a lot of points. I wanted to finish him, but I know you had to walk across. Yeah. Oh, no.

I was saying that what you said, you said much, much better and articulated it better than I would. That's the, that's where I saw the conversation continuously moving. And it is for a positive reason. And as black men, if we see a better way to present ourselves, we should. All I'm doing is trying to answer the question.

There's no slight to a person. There's no slight to their legacy. There's no slight to their family. It's just given an objective view. So we can have both sides of a conversation here, and it is what it is. but I will say something to that effect. And every time you bring up the goat, I got to bring up something that validates what I'm saying

so we can have both at the same table. LeBron himself is quoted saying nobody should wear the number 23. He says this. He says that this is the goat. So, you know, at times things can change. But when I have it from the source's mouth, I got to go with what it was stated from the source's mouth. Not my view, not anybody else's view.

what the man himself said. Okay. Well, a lot of points were made here. Discussions on transparency, authenticity, cultural relatability, a whole lot of things. But let us know what y'all think in the comments down below. But that is all the time that we have for today.

Maris, you know, it's always a pleasure to have you on show. Just seeing you, Mo. Good seeing you, Moe. Okay. Thank you, for watching. And as always, it is what it is.