IT IS WHAT IT IS - THE NBA PLAYOFFS ARE SET, MOST DANGEROUS PLAY-IN TEAMS & DOC RIVERS OUT!

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

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Welcome back to It Is What It Is. I'm your host, Trista Crick, and I'm joined by your analysts and co-hosts, Cam and Mace. Where are you guys? Hey, killer, what's good, man? What's good, everybody? How y'all doing? How am I in Vegas? Yeah, doing really good. And you guys are not in Vegas.

How did you pull this off? You snuck in the studio? Exactly. Exactly. I just snuck in. Mace, Cam, you guys are not here. I guess I didn't get the memo. I'll be there in the morning. I'll be there, no, I'll be there tonight. Tonight. Well, I'll see you tonight. Yeah. Amazing. Or tomorrow. I'll see you tomorrow. What's up, Cam? man how you doing man i'm happy that you made it me too me too let's get into these games though and get into some of this crazy stuff we now have playoffs and play-ins set um the game i want to talk about the most or to start off with Denver versus san antonio Denver hottest team in the league

12 straight wins and despite resting most of their starters for the entire second half they just beat the San Antonio Spurs. They're now going to be the three seed. That means that the spurs have to face the nuggets and the thunder to make the finals. I wanted to ask you guys this. Do you like the idea of resting your stars for an easier path in the playoffs? Or do you think you should just let the chips fall where they fall? I'll start with Mace. Let me just start by saying, I think this is phenomenal. I wouldn't pause. I wouldn't want it any other way. you got to go through the defending champs and you got to go through the previous champs

what better way to say you're ready to be a champion right you go through dymour you go through okay see if you're able to pull that off you're definitely ready for the big times and you're ready for big time basketball and I don't think wimby should have it any other way how else can you do a changing of the guards unless you go through all of the guards

pause you know what i'm saying so that is really something to think about but i'm not interested in people resting especially when you don't get it done right so let's take all of the teams that have done this low um low low what they call it low management right and then they get to the playoffs only to lose what was the use of the low management we've seen that with the clippers we've seen it with um san antonio one time not get it done We saw it with Miami. We saw it with several great teams that that low management began to be the debacle of their teams. So I'm not one of those guys who's in favor of it because it's only work, I think, one time, I think.

When I really thought about it, the team that pulled it off and it went well was San Antonio. I think maybe one other team has done that, probably Golden State. But other than that, it hasn't worked. So all of these people trying to copy other people's blueprints and other team's blueprint, you got to find your own, Jack. And this is a great time to find out your own way of winning. Cam? Tris, when you asked the question, did you mean over the season or did you make yesterday's games?

Just yesterday's game. Like, do you think you should try to manipulate the final game in the season? Yesterday, for San Antonio, absolutely not. Why would you play Wimby when you're going to be the two-seater night? and he just had a rib injury a few days ago. He played the game after that, but you know what type of coach you would be? You'd be like, yo, why are you playing them anyway?

It didn't make no sense. Now, Denver, they had something on the line because of seating because the Lakers actually won their game. So they had to win their game to stay where they had with seating. So I understand why they played the Joker. Not only that, they played the Joker so he can make the 65 game rule so he'd be eligible to be all NBA and everything else. and the finalists for MVP voting and so on and so on and so forth.

But he didn't even play the second half, The Joker, because you're going to look crazy playing your star player, knowing damn well that you're going to be in the same scene no matter what. I didn't want to bring it up because we have a, we're going to talk about that game. I see us on our schedule for today. But no, it doesn't, to me, no, because you look crazy. Why would you play Wimby today or probably yesterday? and no matter what happens, you're the two-seat.

If you win or don't lose, you're going to look crazy as a coach. So yesterday, I didn't mind certain players splitting. What May said, I agree with him over a course of a season. But as far as yesterday's concerned, I think everybody who did everything did what they're supposed to do. Number two-see, no matter if you're wondering you're not, I understand the Joker playing the first half to make eligibility. Because, you know, you get bonuses when you make all NBA

and MVP finally. All that shit is in the contract. And not only that, Denver has seating on the line. Just like LeBron played, seating was on the line. So when your seating is on the line, I think you should play as well. But when you're looking at somebody like Wembe

just coming off a rib, low-grade rib contusion, what, four days ago, five days ago? It's not a big deal for one game. Was it a big difference to you in terms of the path that Denver gets? Now they play instead of having to play Houston in the first round, they play Minnesota, and now they play San Antonio and OKC. In terms of Denver and their perspective, do you think that they should have tried to lose that game so that they end up playing Houston and then OKC?

I'm not sure. I think when the playoffs come, it's not about easier teams because you take a team like Houston, they'll turn up in the playoffs. Do you know, you get Kevin Durant. Do you really want to play against a Kevin Durant? But I guess if you had to pick your poison, would you, I would rather play Kevin Durant than play Wembe? I see what you're saying. I definitely would have win for the Houston game than playing against San Antonio

because San Antonio is red hot right now. Playoffs is the playoffs. As far as I'm concerned, we see Ant Man send the Joker home too. So, you know, even though it's Minnesota, when the playoffs start, everybody has a chance to win. I'm not trying to lose any games. I get what you're saying. It may be an easier path, but I think in the Western Conference, especially when you get to the second round, it's no easy path whatsoever, no matter who you play in the second round. You think about the first round, right?

You may potentially have Golden State, Phoenix. I know Portland's in them, but we won't count Portland, even though they don't know disrespect or something like that in their plans. No, listen, I don't mean any hometown disrespect. Because, listen, Portland's playing sensational. They're playing great basketball, man. They really are. Portland is a dangerous team, too. But I don't think they're as dangerous as the clippers potentially, Golda State potentially, and Phoenix.

So you have those three teams, this first round matchups. And I'm not saying that they'll beat San Antonio O. KC, but you can never be submissive against Kowah Leonard. Kowah Lennon had an awesome year this year. We know they have to play Golden States, so Kowah Lennon and stuff, Curry both aren't going to make it. One of the other is going to make it. But you have sensational talent that can make it in the first round.

I think every series in the first round in the Western Conference is going to be must-see TV. I'm excited to watch it. Yeah, that's going to be super fun. Over on the East, Orlando. God, Orlando. What a disappointing team they've been this year. They lost to Boston C team.

Just all rested players, all the rotation guys, the stay ready guys. And now they slide into the play-in spot versus where they could have been, if they would have won that game and the chips would have fallen correctly, is they could have been a six-seed. Now all the news points to them firing head coach Jamal Mosley. There's now rumors that the magic may want to try and package Paolo for a Janus deal. that's in the rumblings. Like what do you guys think about Orlando this year and Paolo specifically as a superstar,

Mace? Man, you messed me up with that trade about Janus. That's actually a good trade. That's actually getting back a superstar for what it is that you're expecting. I think if you had to go with Janus over Paul, I think that that's an excellent trade. What's the other question you're talking about, though? Yeah, like, do you, if you have a franchise like Orlando,

how are you feeling about Palo? He's on a Super Max deal, and this team, for whatever reason, just cannot get right. Do you put Palo as a number one superstar franchise level player? Yes, I think if you add the right pieces around him, I think right now you're trying to make him a winner with other pieces that are just like, refurbished pieces. They're like cars that you fixed up and they're running well,

but they're still not top quality cars, right? So the same way is, but so far you can go with that. Yes, you got Powell, but around Powell, who else do you have, right? Who is the number two? There's teams that are working on their third superstar. He's only one superstar. You're never going to be three superstars with one superstar. Just think of all of the players they had down there from the beginning of his tenure down there, right? You had Cole Anthony. You had, what's

the Suggs? These are guys that came out of college and they were great, but these are not guards that are proving yet to be like NBA standouts. So this is not, you can't win like that in this league no more. You got to have

at least two stars. So there's teams, like I said again, that's working on their third superstar. And when you guys somebody like power that's just by itself. It's but so much you could ask them to do. I think you're asking for a lot, even as a young player when you're the only superstar. Cam? Yeah, it was really bad losing to, and I like the way you put that, Trish, the C team.

There's nobody from Boston played. I don't know who these people are, you know, and they still lost. And not just lose, you know what's on the line. When you talk about Coach Mosley possibly getting fired, he may have lost the locker room. This is a team that we were saying is a piece away from possibly going to the Eastern Conference Championship a year ago. And then, you know, you have veterans that surround Ben Chiro when you talk about Carl Anthony Pope. You got to keep some of these pieces around. So it's just sad to see.

Overall, his record is way under 500, believe it's 188 wins versus 220 wins. And then when you're not winning, they put all that into perspective. I can't say what his future is, but Orlando goes from a team last year looking like, okay, they're a step or two away from saying now we've got to get rid of the coach, possibly trading the superstar, trying to get Janice there. It turned into something positive, to something totally negative, to where they want to blow that up and start fresh. There's no patience in any sports these days.

You have to get it done and get it done as soon as possible. I'm not saying it's right or wrong for Orlando to do. but I totally understand it. You shouldn't have lost that game yesterday whatsoever, knowing that you could be a game away from being eliminated or two games away from being eliminated. Yeah, I mean, it's just disgusting. I think you have so much excitement

when you take a player like Paolo with the number one overall pick, right? And he was considered to be like this real star coming to a place that we haven't seen since. probably Dwight Howard. And for the team to get to this place where no matter if you get KCP, no matter if you get Desmond Bain and you pay four first round picks for him, no matter if you pair him with Franz Wagner,

no matter what this team looks like, for whatever reason, the common denominator is bad offense and lackluster performance, really. You feel like you see them as a team that can be super potential. Like I think a lot of people thought this could be an Easter conference finals team because of the shooting with Desmond Bain. And that to me just shows like what's going on with Jamal Mosley. I think you're right, Cam. Like to your point, it feels like Jamal Mosley lost the locker room.

It feels like guys really don't like the style of play that he has. You have KCP that you bring on in this team. He was a 40% three-point shooter and a lockdown perimeter defender and a two-time NBA champion, and all of a sudden he's irrelevant, and he's shooting at all-time lows, and you trade him to Memphis, and he still hasn't figured it out. Now you have Desmond Bain, who's a 40-percent three-point shooter, and he was a lockdown defender, and now he hasn't been the same since he came to Orlando. You have the fit between Palo and Franz, which feels clunky. To me, I would rather probably, at this point, trade Franz Wagner than trade Palo,

just because of all the things that you've invested in Palo and you don't really know what you have and you definitely got to get rid of Jamal Mosley like ASAP Rocky. I don't love the Janus trade because you're probably going to have to give a ton up to get Janus. And you kind of have a guy that could be honest in Palo Ben-Caro. Cam, I just want to circle back. Like, what do you think about Palo? Dan Mace. You're going to say something.

Go ahead, Mace. Oh, yeah, I was saying when you're saying when you're, think of the players that you're naming, think about that going against a Jalen, a Jalen Brown, right? That's hard to put bang against Brown, right? These are the things that we're talking about. Like, how are you going to really compete if you're talking about these level of players or Franz against Tatum, right? or you get what I'm saying, the caliber of players. These are good players. We're not saying that they're not good pieces,

but you're putting them against elite pieces. You're putting two, you're putting Ben Carroll plus two good players against an all-star with two other elite players and expecting them to participate on the highest level. When you get later on in the series and later on in the seasons, It's always the all-stars that winning for you. It's the superstars that winning for you. So if you only got one, you got a third of the chance of winning.

So I think they're right where they should be with the personnel that they have. I don't think you can compete against Jalen Brunson against Kay Cunningham with KP. Now, KP is good, but when you weigh KP against Jalen Brunson, he's not supposed to win that against Tyrese. He's not supposed to win that. I wouldn't take bang over Paul George or, or you get what I'm saying, or some of those elite players, you just wouldn't do that. So I think they're where they're supposed to be with the personnel that they have.

Yeah, but Mace, you're talking about the top of the division. There's still two, three playoff spots left, especially, I'm not disagreeing with you, but they should not be in the playing in the Eastern Conference, my opinion. But you got to think about this. Atlanta's emerging, even though Charlotte has to win two games, I would really love to see Charlotte play in the playoffs. It's a lot of teams sitting there are emerging

that's exciting to see. The answer to your question, Trish, I think Ventura, he could be one of them guys, to Mason's point, if he's surrounded with the right pieces. He's averaging 22 points this season, a little over 22, a little bit,

over 8.B. Round shooting on 46% from the field. He was looking like he was going to be one of them players last year. But I can't say, because Mates brought up some great points. Actually, to when it does get to the second round, who are you going to compare his teammates to? Because when it gets to the second round, you have to have some help. They don't have any help.

So I think that even if he goes to Milwaukee, I'm not sure what he does in Milwaukee because I don't think that he's one of them players that can do it by themselves. Nobody does it by itself, but you have a few people who are going to get theirs, right? You think about a person that comes to mind, Kevin Love and Minnesota, right?

Kevin Love was so dominant in Minnesota. They wasn't winning games, but you knew what you could get out of him. I don't get that from Ben Chiro. Like, whatever, I'm going to give me 30 every night, whether we win or don't win. This is the reason why LaVille. Bronn wanted Kevin love so bad

when he got to Cleveland because he's like, yo, this nigga don't give a fuck. He's coming there every night. He's going to get his regardless. Ben Chero, I don't know. Is he going to go for 40 when he needs to go for 40? Like yesterday's game, you need to go for 45, 50 if that's what it's going to take to keep you

out of the plan. And that's what he needs to still in this game, my opinion. Yeah. Like, think about it. Even when Killer just said, right? At the bottom of the playoffs, when you get to like Charlotte and people like that to Cam's point, right? You got a Charlotte team that got mellow ball. Then they got Mow's Bridges. This is like their third carnipo is their third option. Then you got Brandon Miller, who a couple

years ago was the number one pick. This is a fourth option. This team is even at the bottom of the East coast. They got better, they got better third and fourth options than Orlando. So that's why I was saying that this is just overall a bad idea. So I appreciate what Cam said because it really added clarity to that. They're not able to compete with the team that they have. Outside of Ben Carroll is like your killer is like you're the man on Stone Jim's team. Like, yeah, you're going to get 50, but you're going to lose by 30. That's what this team looks like, no matter what he was to do.

So even if he goes to Milwaukee, they will have to do the same thing, surround him with some great players. If you want to win in this league, it's the GM's job to make sure you bring the type of talent that they can win come April and come May. Yeah, we're going to have to see what happens there

because it's fascinating. And I'm not so sure based on what you guys guys have said in kind of the history there that it's going to be so easy to fix. But play-in matchups, you guys already touched on it a little bit. The play-in matchups are set. Sons play my Blazers. The Blazers put a beat down. I was in the building on Friday night against the Clippers to be an eight-see. That was a super meaningful game. So it's Suns Blazers, 7-8. Clips play the Warriors in the 9-10 matchup in the West. And then you've got Sixers Magic, 7-8. and then you've got Hornet Heat 9-10 in the East.

Out of those four games, which play-in team, and I'll start with you, Mace, do you think could realistically challenge any of the two top seeds in the East or West? That's a really good question. I'm going to have to go with Charlotte. I think if Charlotte, if Charlotte could win, they definitely can get in the East Coast and be disruptive, right? Because they have those kind of players that can break out and it can become a real problem. I would love to see Lamello ball in the playoffs just because he plays so freely. You know, I know he's a coach's worst nightmare at the point because he takes so much risk.

but I think when he's paused, when he's on, he is a danger and a terror to the league. I think he brings that free style of playing. Like the last person I saw had that was Steph Curry. So if he's able to come out of the playoffs, come in the playoffs and really flow the way that he has, I think they could really be a problem to anybody in the East if they get gone. Cam? Who do you think? You want East and West or you want...

You could go any. We can go East first and then we can go West. Well, East, I agree with Mace. I just think about it is, I don't know if they're the biggest threat because they had all year to be a threat, but they're the most fun to watch when you talk about Charlotte.

You know, all the players that Mace's name, he's right, they got great pieces and still end up in ninth place. So I don't know But do I want to watch them How yeah I want to watch them Could they end up bringing off 23s? Yeah, hell yeah, they could

So they're a wild card If they make it to the playoffs You know, this is one of them La Bella's Ball is one of the players that Get on fire I'm not calling them stuff carrying none But he'll frustrate you Because he's shooting off one leg

He's dribbling around the circle He's throwing live passes They're a very, very fun team to watch So then you got Khan can nipple who can knock down. I love to watch Charlotte play. Not only that, they have 2 40-point victories after the All-Star break. Very dangerous team after the All-Star break. And hopefully they'll win the two games to get in the playoffs.

So I'll start with Charlotte. On the West, it's hard because, you know, you sit there and look at Kawhal Leonard with the clippers with a lot of experience. You sit there and you look at Golden State with a ton of experience, especially if you could keep Porzingis healthy. But I would go with Phoenix. And we're going to get old, not even old. Devin Booker from four, three, four years ago.

He's not even old. Devin Booker from three years ago. And you got Dylan Brooks and Grayson Allen. Maybe they could cause a problem for somebody. But we need the Devin Booker that we seen three years ago prior to them drafted, Pardon me, not drafted, acquiring Bradley, Bill, and Kevin Durant. Since then, we haven't been talking about Devin Bucke. We've talked about Devin Bucker possibly being one of them niggas like Kobe.

And then it just all went away. So I would say Phoenix and the West and Charlotte, Parmy in the East. You don't want to leave out Miami either, just because you got Pat Riley there, man. When you got Pat Rowley there, a decent center. Cool, but I'm going to go with Charlotte because I just, think they're fun to watch. I'm thinking I'm going more of what I want to see than what we might actually see. I think to your point, too, like both of you guys made an amazing point when it

comes to Charlotte. But if you look at post-all-Star break, the Charlotte Hornets have the second best net rating in the NBA. They're a top 10 defense. This team has the player in Conquipal who has led the NBA and three-pointers made. the guy behind them by one is lamello ball. So to me, even if they play, if they end up playing Detroit, and I know that this, this audience feels like I'm anti- Detroit. I like Detroit. I like Cade.

And I think they have a bunch of fun pieces. But just off the strength of Charlotte being able to hit that many threes, Brandon Miller was a 40% three-point shooter when he played at Alabama. He can get going. Having three guys on the perimeter that can score at will, plus. the way that La Mello Ball is playing in terms of just getting everybody involved. If Charles Lee, the head coach of Charlotte, can just get Lamello Ball to just make like five less dumb plays a game.

I think that this team is very dangerous. We saw a couple of days ago, I don't know if you guys saw the highlight, but Lamello Ball had an open layup, and he decided to run into the corner and shoot a three. He made it, and it was like an amazing highlight, but he was draped all around him, And it's like, don't just make the easy play. That's the kind of thing in the playoffs that I feel like could bite you. Because it's going to become more of a tight defense. Everybody's going to be scheming for you in a different way.

Things slow down. Half court sets start becoming a thing. And that open freestyle that La Mella Ball loves is going to get shut down more. So I 100% agree. Not just the fact that they're the most fun team in the East, but I really feel like we need to see, we need to see Detroit come and be ready to play and they probably should have beaten the Knicks in the first round last year. But I need to kind of see how is Cade looking because he's been out for so long.

And I agree. I think on the West, you got to look at the Clippers, too. Like the way that they play when they're on, if they can play defense and Kauai Leonard can be as good as he's been, I'm not saying they could beat O.K.C., but I think that they can make it the most challenging. I do want to move. I don't know what you said real quick. I seen that shit the other day, Lamello Borg. My, you know, Nick, any other, if that was me,

nigger would have been side out for six games. Not just the rest of that game. Six games, you know. That nigga had a whole open layup, ran to the corner, and made the three. It didn't even matter that he made the three. It was wild disrespectful. It was risky.

Go get them right now. Go get them. Fair. That's fair. That's it. I watched it. And because he made. it looked like an outstanding highlight.

That was one of the dumbest shit I ever seen ever. But it looked amazing because he made it. I never even see stuff Curry do that. Have an open layup and run to the three point line and shoot the three on an open layer. But it was a fun clip to watch, Tris. I definitely see that. Somebody said online that lamello ball

looks like he plays and slides. And I just think that's like because it's such a brilliant analogy because he's that free where he looks like he's just playing pickup. Yeah, he definitely represents that. But what we're thinking about, that could be a phenomenal series. Charlotte versus Detroit.

And we would hate for Detroit to go out to Charlotte. But they can. They can. If there was a team that could beat them in the first round, that would be the team. Especially, Mace, because if you're talking about a team that is as good of a three-point shooting team as Charlotte is. and then you're talking about, okay, what are we getting from the shooters for Detroit? That's really the mismatch where you wonder, what are we getting from Tobias Harris? What are we getting from some of the other role players that you got in free agency in the offseason?

You have to replace Tim Hardaway, you have to replace Malik Beasley, some of the guys that really helped you last year. Are we going to get that from Duncan Robbins? And I think that's like the biggest question mark. And then you got to. This is why people say you hate on Detroit, Trish, because it just seems like you hate money. I know. But I'm speaking truth. They went nine and two without Kate Cuttingham.

It's true. It did. It ain't like you. So you got what you've seen from the role players, Tobias and Duncan. You've seen it without Kate coming in for 11 games. But not in the playoffs. People seem like, yeah. Okay.

Duncan has a playoff experience and so it's Tobias Harris. And I know it changes game to game. And don't get me wrong. I think that Charlotte can be a headache for anybody. It's like boxing. If you're used to fighting a conventional fighter, and then you go fight Tyson Fury, and he put his hands behind his back.

And he's looking at his tongue at you towards. And he's doing all shit that's not regular boxing skills and mentally can fuck you up. Like, yo, because it makes you more mad. You know what I'm saying? So I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm just saying why the audience may feel like this with you. Thank you.

I appreciate it. That's a really good take, killer. And just like Tyson Ferry, he's trying to rub the laces on your eyes on the clench. It's like, yo, what is he doing? And then when you ax and he punch you, you know, it's like, he's very, like crafty in that way. So this is how I look at Charlotte. But let me ask you something, Trish. Who did you used to date in Detroit?

I've never dated anybody in Detroit. I don't have nothing against Detroit. I love Little Caesar's Arena. I think Little Caesar's Arena is a top five arena in the NBA. I love that city as a sports town. The Lions Arena is incredible. I like the heart and the soul of Detroit. I love Kate Cunningham.

I just need to see this in a playoff setting before, if we're going to say, okay, we need to see it from OKC last year. They need to go further in the playoffs before we consider them a true contender. I certainly need to see a team like Detroit, which we know has at some point, and I like Dennis a lot, and he's been an awesome addition for them in terms of like guard play. Trudeau? Yeah, no, Danis Jenkins.

He's like an undrafted kid. He played for Rick Patino, actually, and he's been hooping for them. But I need to see it in the playoffs. That's pretty much, it's pretty much it. Do you like Dennis Schrooter? Yeah, but he's not there anymore. Oh, okay. He's in Cleveland now, I believe.

But I did like Dennis Schrooter. He was really, really good for them last year. I wanted to ask you guys about these play-in conundrums because Portland, Portland, if they end up making the playoffs, they lose their first round pick to Chicago. It's a top 14 pick. You've got Orlando that may want to go out and get a new coach now and not wait to get smacked in the first round. So for teams that are up and coming, would you guys rather make the playoffs to get those

young guns experience or in those high leverage moments in a draft class or in the draft class like this do you would you rather take a chance at getting a really good draft pick in this lottery um for me i i think this class is overrated oh i mean how how many times have we seen a good big man from duke not paying out and i wouldn't want that for the booze or twins right So I'm supportive of Carlo Booza, but I think this draft class is way overrated. I don't think these, I don't think everybody in this class will turn out to be what they think they're supposed to be. I think like some of these guys are just big for their ages, pause. And when you put them against people their aid, I meant their height and in the league that stops.

I don't think the guys now to all of the years I've seen in the NBA, the people who really turned out well, mainly were the people who worked hard. It wasn't the people that were celebrated in storyline since they were in high school. If you go back as far as you can remember, like, we wasn't talking about D. Wade in high school.

We wasn't talking about Stephen Curry in high school. We were talking about Ant-Man, and we were talking about LeBron. but the rest of these guys are guys that just got better year after year after year after year. And I think consistency always beats that superior athlete and a guy who could jump out of the gym because at some point he loses that and the technical skill is what takes over. That's a good point.

I think that this is a great draft class, but I don't know if it's a game-changing draft class. Like when I say game changing, I don't know if it's a Wembe. I don't think it's a LeBron James. I think it's some outstanding players that's available. AJ is good. I put it in my notes, everybody, because it ain't just about booze. You got Patterson from Kansas who's good.

Claire Wilson, UNC. He didn't even get the play in the tournament because he was hurt. Of course, we got A-Cuff Fleming, damn in Houston, Mikkel Brown, and Louisville. It's a great draft class. My guy who got hurt in Michigan, I can't even think of his name right now. But it's great, but I don't see game, like, that's going to turn a team around in two-year players.

That's what I'm saying. So you definitely have some good people. Like, you think about this, right? We didn't think it was going to look good for Kay Cuddy. It took a little while, right? But look, he's a finalist of not getting hurt. for MVP. It didn't happen in two years.

And you have to have some patience sometimes for some of these players to develop. So with the answer your question, Trist, do I think losing, rather lose knowing you're not going anywhere in the players? It's tough to call. It's tough. You don't go out there and try and lose any games.

But if you could get somebody that's going to be developed in three, four years and turn into a K Conahanham, you may want that. Everybody's not going to be LeBron James. Everybody's not going to be one. But I know one thing, we're not going to try and lose any games whatsoever. But I do understand the question.

So it's a really tough question to answer. Me personally, I'm not going to try to lose because you never know what can happen. But there's definitely some good pieces that may develop in the next two, three, four years that you be like, this was a great pick. Yeah. And that goes with what you were saying, Trish. But is it worth tanking? No. Is it worth losing and not getting that playoff experience?

To answer your question, absolutely not. Like, I think Boozer, out of all of them, will be the one that does very well. So I want to make sure I'm clear on that. I was just saying from the history of Duke players, that will be a concern of mine with this question that you just added. Because with Duke players, they normally, most of them don't pan out. So if that's the top of the class,

then that puts a question mark on the whole class. Yeah, and it's tough too because as a Portland Trailblazer fan, like this is the struggle, right? This is the conundrum that everybody's talking about in not just the media, but the fans. Because if you make the playoffs, you don't get a first round pick. It goes to Chicago. But this is why Damien Lillard came back. Like for me, as a Portland fan, Dame got upset because we continue to do egregiously tank, even though he wanted to surround himself with talent, as he should.

And now you have the talent. And at this point, why get in a young draft pick that's going to take three years to develop, like you guys said? And Dames Prime is over then. His prime's kind of almost over now. And so getting the Denny Abdias of the world experience, getting Scoot Henderson development, playing against Wembe or O'KC, learning how to how to, how to, win, learning how to lose, and maybe missing out on a, I don't know, like a Keaton Wagner or a

Darren Peterson at best that you're getting him, maybe like a co-a-peat from Arizona. I agree. I think probably it makes the most sense for Portland to try to get that, and a team like Portland to try to get that playoff experience for next year when Dame comes back and they're a five-seed or a four-seed, which I think that they could be. And then you've got guys who have gone through battle. Five-seat. I think it could be five seed, Trist.

Come on now. Look at some of these teams, Mace. We've been a... Okay, C. Yep. They'll be above us. They'll be above us. Yes.

San Antonio. How about just the top six seats? The Lakers. The Lakers. The Lakers are cooked. Lakers. Lakers are cooked. Minnesota.

They're barely a six seed. How about a six seed? Top six seed. All right. Come on. You're, you. with this four of this

is going to be a fifth seat okay listen can we be optimistic I jumped in because you said a four seat

if you had said a five seat I probably would have let you get away with the cap but four feet

that's that's putting 30 on 10 man for real listen that's to be honest with you

they're back in the playing again next year Trish you could hype Portland up all you want. Jimmy Butler be back next year.

Pauzingus will be healthy the whole year. Stuff is going to be stuffed. Fred Van Fleeter be back next year as well. Cut it out. This is why Detroit be mad at you. This is exactly why. This is why Detroit people is mad at you for this. Something happened in Detroit, killer.

We got to get our research out there. Something happened in Detroit. I'm not. You're going to be a fourth scene next year. He's wilding, but go ahead. Okay. You went Nick with the Giants, too. Listen.

Yeah, Houston. You got them above Houston? Could be. Could be. With Fred Van Fleet coming back? Listen, Fred Van Fleet needs to get his health back together. Dame Liller back on this team. Danny at the two.

And so do Dame Lillard. He does. He looks like Fred Van Fleet got to get his health help of game and so does. Damien Lillis. It's the same scenario. what you're talking about. But you know what, but you know what,

you know what Fred Deer and Fleet got the Damien Lillig got? He got a nigga named Kevin Durant and Sagoon. They don't have, you don't got that. You think Shangoon is better than Denny? Yes. He's not better. Yes, I do.

He may be, Denny may be having a good season, but he's not better. So you'd have him than Sangun. Absolutely. We saw this before. We saw this. What was that?

Sabonis. There's guys who had a good year and then after a while, you're like, what happened? We're not going with that. Trish, you got to do it more than one year, Trish. Come on. You're on super new hotness.

We got to make a new category for you. Super new hotness. You know what? That'll tell you. You got to put you with Stadding them with the triple Js and all that. We don't know where triple J at, right now, Killer, you heard anything about Triple J?

There's no Triple J nowhere. You gotta stop this stuff. I mean, Tres, maybe it's the seats you're sitting in. Maybe there's new highness is in the seat. It tells you everything you need to know about me. Like it's a prisoner of the moment kind of a thing. new hotness. Nick put a sticker bottle when she talks. Super new hotness with a plane.

You guys clearly didn't see Denny put up those points against the clippers. He's explosive. I'm telling you. It's explosive. They got to put the Krispy Kreme Hotline behind you, for real. Super new hotness. Super. Oh, man.

I like that. Speaking of the draft, if you're the bad teams, we'll talk about like the Portland's, well, not the Portland's, but the Mavericks, the, who else? The bottom of the barrel teams, the Wizards, the Indiana Pacers, all of those. Which team do you think would benefit from getting the number one overall pick this year the most?

When I think about it, I would have to go Indiana. They would really, really appreciate this pick because it puts them back where they were a year ago before the plane guard got hurt there because when they had miles that end up going to Milwaukee. That took pause a real big piece out of their front court. I think this is the draft. They would benefit the most because they're able to replace that same type of player with somebody much, much better in Boozer. If they was able to get Boozer into Indiana, it would be a phenomenal thing. Because when Halliburton comes back, that pick and roll will be, that picking role will be sensational.

I think they would benefit the most. I think right after that, you have to say that that, Dallas Mavericks, right? Because if they get boozer or somebody of that caliber, then they have a super, a super supreme team with Kyrie coming back. Then you got, you got flag. Then you got, you know, what you call it? You got AD. Whether you get hurt or not, they'll still be able to compete at a very high level. And that's somebody you forgot about when you was talking about Portland. You're going to have Portland over Dallas? Yes. am. Oh my goodness. Yes. So you got a scoot over Kyrie. That's what we're doing right now. No, I did not. That is not what I said. So how are you going to put them over there with Kai Reed bringing up the ball? How are they going to win? Dallas is very thin. AD is over in Siberia right now in the Washington Wizard. So he's he's not going to be there. You got our guy, Daniel. Gafford, you got the kid at a Duke, Derek Lively, and you got a lot of random role players

that I don't know that I necessarily believe in. And yeah, you've got Clay Thompson there, but Clay Thompson's getting older. He's getting like really a lot older defensively, specifically that. So for me, I think that this Portland team is, is a lot better than Dallas, even with Kyrie and Cooper Flag on it. I think, I think Dallas is still probably a 10 seed with Kyrie coming back unless they get the number one overall pick because they don't have their own draft picks after this class for a while now.

Who do you think, Cam? It depends. It depends on. I don't think Carlos Boozer's son, Cameron Boozer, is the best play in the draft. He's the most notable play in the draft, but he's not the best player. So I really believe

AJ's probably the best player in the draft. But I don't know what he's going to do. really going to think they're going to figure out a strategy for him to go back to school if Utah doesn't get the best, if Utah doesn't get the number one pick. I don't believe he wants to leave Utah. Peterson, I didn't like what he, that, that nigger, he was using low management this year in college, like he was in the NBA already till, he was taking himself out the game because he was busting his ass and then he was like, y'all see what I can do.

I'll take myself out the game. mad games this year to where the coach was trying to defend him like, nah, you know, he was having trouble breathing, this, that, and third. And I'm like, he's like, nah, I killed these niggas. I ain't got time to get hurt out here because I'm going to the NBA.

I don't know. Yeah, he was. That sure was a big time. Do you blame him? Do you blame him? No, no, I don't. I don't blame him whatsoever. Let's be honest, when you have to certain people now, you got great parenting this generation. I don't

great parenting. You get him money while you're in college. They were more mad at him because the boosters paid him, you know, basically to play. So if you're paying him to play and he doesn't play, like, yo, what's up with our $6 million we gave you, my nigga? Kansas, the thing is the boosters of Kansas is like, yo, I ain't paid for this nigga to play 16 minutes, man. I pay for this nigga to try and win us a national championship. National Championship. But this is it like before when you're saying, okay, I'm not getting paid or anything else,

you're getting paid now. So when you take yourself out the game and you have boosters that donated a million dollars to your alma mater, and then the niggins the reason you made the donation is because, you know, the athletic director, the coaches, you know, we're going to win the national championship with this dude.

We get this dude. We're going to win the national championship. And then he doesn't play. you feel like you made a bad investment. That's how I look at it if I'm a booster, donate my money. Do I look at it like it's bad? No, you ought to realize the people like him,

AJ, A.C. We all know that they're coming to school for one year. And that's really what it's for, because if they could go from high school, they probably would go from high school. But that rule doesn't imply anymore. So now at least they figure out where you get some money in college, but they're not staying.

So I don't blame when Mace. They answer your question, no, because you know what I'm here for. I don't really even want to be here anyway. I'm actually here because I can't go from high school. I was like, I want to just skip this whole shit. But the team that would have benefited the most. Trish, it's a great question. I think Mace brought up something that I wasn't thinking about

with Halliburne coming back with Cameron Boozer. that'll be great, but you don't have Turner there anymore at the center position because Turner was really good and it was a real, real part of them getting to the championship that year. No, not one of the greatest centers, but a very decent center. Do good down low, hit the open three-point shot, and he attributed to them giving a championship. Would I make them get back to the Eastern Conference Championship with Carlos Buzer's son?

I keep saying Carlis Bucson. of Cameron Boozer, I'm not sure. I would have to do some more homework for I can definitively answer that question because, like I said, I don't see any one person changing a franchise around this season. That's a good point. We got to get to break.

We'll be back. And after this break, Doc Rivers out out of Milwaukee as head coach, but maybe moving to the front office. We'll be back right after this. Got you feeling like an option. Maybe I'm my own problem big. All right.

What's happening in me won't fall for all trust. But she really thinking about one of me. I wish somebody told me the rules. Disagreements let her win. And it's cool. All right. Welcome back. Guys, Doc Rivers has been catching so much heat over the last.

couple of weeks, we have Sham Sharanya coming out with multiple reports saying Doc Rivers said to the team to Google him. Doc Rivers is coming after Sham Sharanya. He's also talking about playing with his grandkids and saying maybe he will retire. But today, well, actually yesterday the news came down that Doc Rivers and the Milwaukee Bucks are going to be parting ways. Lots going on. There is some rumors that Doc might stay on in a front office capacity. Mace, what is your reaction to the Bucs firing Doc Rivers and also potentially maybe keeping him around. This is one of those situations like having a girl you're trying to, you're trying to break up with a, but stay friends.

I'm not for that. If I'm leaving, I'm leaving, right? If you're going, you're going. Don't try to keep a black cat around. If it's something that doesn't work for you, you got to get rid of it. I would not keep Doc in the front office. after what I've seen him do to a team that was already thriving. They were already playing very well.

You know, I really, I had great hopes for Doc, but after Milwaukee, he would have to reclaim it. It's not that it couldn't be reclaimed, but he would have to do something to reclaim it. This was just a bad stench of where you went to play or where you go to coach. And it's just like sometimes there's things that. that happened that you got to get this one back and you wish you had this one back. This would be one of those 10 years that DACA looked back on and say, I wish I could do that over. Whatever he did in that locker room, it didn't work, whatever he did with the players, it didn't work.

So why would I put him in the front office? It's already a bad taste in the mild pause of everybody in the Milwaukee Bucks pretty much organization. they've been there watching this with very high hopes that doc was going to come in and do something special and it was nothing short of a debacle. Cam? I think Mace hit the nail on the head, but I think it hit home for Mace, man. After he gave that take just, man. I think this one hit home because I remember him getting rid of a girlfriend and she went to the owner, his mother.

God bless the dead. and she would be in the house. And after me, she tried to go to the front office. She went to the front office. And she used to be in the house when we would get to his house to the point where

to the point where she got so cool with the front office, she bought her. new boyfriend through. I said, now they're valid. I said, yeah, now they're going too far

now. I said, yeah, we got to kill the man. Kim didn't see what I was saying at first. I said,

yeah, they getting carried away. Now this niggins coming up their stairs. I'm like, what am I supposed, Mom, what am I supposed to do

with this now? Yeah. Yeah. It isn't it like she loved him. He left her. So that when you leave her, Yeah, that shit pissing me off thinking about it. You got to go.

Doc, you got to go, Doc. Nobody wants to see you in the building. They don't want to see you around, my nigga. It's over, my nigga. If you didn't have to do a good job, coaching, we don't want you to GM, but I know what Doc probably said. Doc probably is like, look, I did a decent job

when I was GM in the Clippers. I almost had it. We didn't keep running. the O KC and the Golden State and so on so they fired Jusman and kept you into coaching board and God bless and dead Jerry West because they said he wasn't doing a good job GM and after a while.

Doc Rivers, look, I don't want to talk about Doc Rivers week after week because you know, he's a staple. He's a former New York Nick. He tried to get them a chip. He chipped at one time. You know, Atlanta Hawks when he's a player. I'm talking about it's a player. But y'all keep bringing it up,

so we can't got no choice but to throw rock dock under the bus. You got one championship and May said it last week, but I said it when we wasn't on camera before May said it to sing. The sin was saying I'm being disrespectful. But I say, yo, you have a primetime

Ray Allen. You have a primetime Kevin Garnett. Paul Pierce, Rondo. My nigga, they posted win. Then what happened? They didn't win the other championship soon as the Lakers got Gassau. You had Tracy McGready in Orlando. Look, I'm I'm over with Doc Rivers, but he keeps a job.

He keeps a job. It's the same. Shout out to his agent. Shout out to his agent. Wait, I need to go back to this girlfriend's story. So you broke up with her, and then she continued to come over and hang out with your mom. She got, she locked in with my mom. She locked in with the front office.

And then brought her new boy. and she was just over there playing, what, like spades with the boyfriend and moms when you would come over or come back home? After a while, she became, after a while, she became besties with my mother. So now, you know, it's your best friend. You just mean your best friend boyfriend. I didn't look at it like that. I definitely was thinking this is wild. As you said.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I told her she can go or I can go. I've been pretty consistent this whole time. You can go or I can go. And then Cam agreed, yes, you can go or you can go. Y'all can't both be in that same house.

Oh, that's wild. Yeah, because it was spiteful. She don't do that. Who does that? You got to meet for coffee outside of the house or something, not if you're coming through back to your own place. Oh, that's... They're trying to help with the cooking and all of that.

No. Nobody wants that. Nobody wants that. See, the thing about it is, the thing about it was Mace, Mace room was in the front, so we didn't have to go back there, really. Like, they was back there, so you can't really see niggas like that. So it was like, yo, niggas back there. He wasn't really allowed to go past the bathroom.

At least I wasn't. To this day, I never went past the bathroom. I never seen them, but just no one pissed me off. Shat me tight. Oh, man. Real quick before we end the show, I saw this on Inside the NBA last night. They were talking about Doc and all of that news coming out of the locker room

and leaking out, pause, just like him saying all the stuff that he said about Google me and him giving DMPs to Kyle Kuzma because of some sort of interaction that went on that he didn't like. And Charles Barkley said that that shows that the locker room are suckers and that they've got no respect for like locker room sanctity.

And Shaq says that these types of stories come out all the time. Like when these types of stories to you guys come out, is that more of an indictment of the team? Or is that just showcasing like how bad that coach is doing. Cam, you go first, boy. Well, I think it shouldn't happen in real time.

Like right now, we hear all type of stories about Michael Jordan, about Kobe Bryant, you know, because it's over with. I don't think any of that stuff should come out in real time because it lets you know that it's a problem actually occurring right now. But with all the technology, the internet podcast, I don't think it's not wrong with telling the story from 20 years ago, 15, 20, 25, 30. How have a long old these stories are? No, even Vernon Maxwell's stories, I think he's a great storyteller when he tells these stories.

A lot of these former NBA players, great stories tellers, and you want to hear him. You know, you want to hear Reggie Miller say, yeah, I remember I had 11 points on Michael Jordan, and I told him, oh, you ain't what I thought he was, which he was. And Mike said, I hope you got a good game and end up scoring 41 points in the next three quarters. I like hearing shit like that. I like hearing Amar Shepardt talk about how he was busting Kobe ass in the first quarter. He said then Kobe told him the same shit. I hope you had a good night, young fella.

He said Kobe start throwing it off the backboard to himself. He actually was showing the highlight while he was telling the story, which was amazing. but when you tell these stories in real time, while it's going on, it just lets the other team know that other teams know that you're in disarray in your locker room, not only that when it's time to go to another team, they're looking at you like,

yo, this thing can't hold water. We may not be able to trust them in our locker room. I think that was a big part of reason, you know, jumping sports to one of our friends of the show, Antonio Brewer, going live in the locker room at halftime, which was just totally too far, not even telling the story, going live.

But I don't think that is good at the time at all. I don't even think it's good the next year. I think down the road, when everybody's retired, it's okay to tell these stories. Tell me these stories in real time and no good. Look what happened in the Jordan Poole. It wasn't just a story.

It was a damn video with it. The led to the debacle of Golden State after they just won a championship. Whether you're getting along or not, this is another argument I had, right? Chemistry means a lot. you may not get along with the other players, but y'all are winning. So would you ever go be somewhere where shit is running smoothly and everybody's cool,

but y'all not winning? Or would you be somewhere where it shit ain't going necessarily right, but you're winning? You know, I told me, he's talking about Mike Brown. That's a good point. And we're like, yo, joking in like Mike Brown, he had to get out of it. He was one year removed from winning the championship. and then to me Denver hasn't been the same since. Denver looked like they were on a possibility to be one of them teams

to make a dynasty run after they won that first championship. And then you lose that momentum because you don't like what's going on, but you're winning. Everybody could be cool and not be winning. I'd rather not be cool and win that everybody having fun and being cool and be losing. That's just me. I like to win.

Yeah, that's it. I couldn't have made it better. to take that's exactly it because sometime to win you have to change personal stuff about you that's a part of the championship journey you recognize that there's something

you're doing that need to stop doing in order to win at the highest level and I think the people who are able to make those adjustments that's the reason why they win and the people that don't win is because they stick with their preference right

they say the losers always stick with their preference. Even in life, like people that do all of the things they want to do, they never end up as great as the people who did the stuff they didn't want to do. All the successes are in the direction most times of things you don't want to do. And then you learn to love it, learn to agree with it because it works so well for you. So what Tam just said is an excellent, excellent take. Well, that's a good spot to break.

that's a good spot to end the show. Let us know in the comments, what you think. What do you think about Doc Rivers' tenure as head coach of the Milwaukee Bucks? Who do you think would change their fortunes if they get the number one overall pick the most in the NBA? And do you think that the Charlotte Hornets could challenge the Detroit Pistons, or am I just a gigantic hater? That is all the time that we have today. I had an absolute blast.

I will see you guys in studio tomorrow. morning. Thanks as always, and it is what it is.