IT IS WHAT IT IS - THUNDER TAKE GAME 5, SGA THE FOUL BAITER & DOES THE CAVS FUTURE INCLUDE LEBRON JAMES?!

Episode Date: May 27, 2026

Ma$e, Cam’ron & Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson are back with another one!! Please rate, review, and follow the podcast for more content.  Listen to the show on Spotify!  https://open.spotify.com/show/4Brb7BgCw4f4jwgS5v3sXQ?si=811988ecff7b416a Listen to the show on Apple Podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/it-is-what-it-is/id1719695401 Keep up with us on social media! https://www.instagram.com/itiswhatitis_talk/ Snap:  https://www.snapchat.com/add/iiwii_talk2023  Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/ItIsWhatItIsTalk TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maseandcam Twitter:  https://www.x.com/iiwiitalk Follow Our Hosts! https://www.instagram.com/masonbetha/ https://www.instagram.com/mr_camron/ https://www.instagram.com/treasurewilsxn/ Follow the show and our hosts on social media: ⁠⁠⁠It Is What It Is⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Cam'Ron⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Ma$e⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson⁠⁠⁠ , ⁠⁠⁠Producer Ayooo Nick⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Okay, we're back at it. I'm back to It Is What It is. I'm Treasure Wilson, aka Stat Baby, along with your host, Mace. Cam will be back, and y'all today we're joining with our analyst Maurice Claret. Mo was good. How you doing? Stats, you got your voice back? Yeah. I'm good.

Too much weekend, stat. That's the point. You're supposed to celebrate your birthday. Everybody should celebrate your birthday. In my... Was it really? Is your birthday? Yeah, it was a milestone for me.

How are you made? Am I going to fake about my birthday? I turned 25. Oh, that's a milestone. You're getting old now. Am I? You know what's funny when you say that? Because, like, people are like, my age, that's how we feel.

We're like, oh, my gosh. We got to get married. We got to do this. You got to do that. Yeah, you got to start living for the future at some point. Yeah. I think that's already began. You think you have?

Yeah, I've been feeling That's good, that's good I'm not old y'all, you know that You all know that He's good to see you how you feeling 25 To me Mo is good to see you

Mo the money made it out there Where the palm trees That's what the people want to know They're like Mace the money made it out there Where the palm tree Did he cuff the money Nick Nick? Nick What's going on here?

Look, so the palm trees that you said, I've been waiting for. The money made it there. Where are the palm trees that? I was trying to get you credit to. The palm trees that you said, they're in the hotel lobby. Okay, okay. So when I do the show from the hotel lobby, I don't want to go to the hotel lobby too soon. Stad is over here trying to do a lot.

Nick is asking me according to his show Did I pay the league's minimum What is it the veterans minimum Nick come on fill me in pause Pause pause pause pause pause That was crazy Yeah yeah You did that to yourself

Talk about I'm doing a lot And that's how things roll out Y'all that's how things roll out Because I'm just sitting here minding my business Minding mine Yeah And I'm not minding the palm trees because I don't know what happened to him, honestly.

He said they're in the hotel, I believe him. If he said the hotel, I'll be. Then I believe him. I believe him, Statt. What's going on, Statt? What do we have on that? Yeah, we've been to get into this game, right? This series, series is crazy.

So, Spurs, lost. O KC, 1-27 to 114. So now OKC is leading the series 3 to 2 with the next game actually being in San Antonio. So Maurice, going to let you start. What were your major takeaways from this game? Well, I give you three takeaways. And, you know, I thought about it as I watched it.

The first takeaway, you know, if you've seen the first and second quarter, it was pretty much slow. You know what I mean? It was, you know, both teams came out shooting horribly. You know, I think at the end of the first quarter, I think it was a low score and double-digit, you know, game. It was a very close game between both teams. but then I think at some point experience from okayC and just the ability to wear wendy down and not let him basically get placement inside of the paint

I think that's what basically slowed the spurs down and there was nobody who could generate any offense for the spurs and I think the fact that you have such a deep bench with okayC they were literally and I called a guy Nails the kid who played at Duke and you know you end up coming over here from Philly what is name McCain yeah yeah McCain And, you know, he basically showed up and he was part of like just the guys off the bench who basically, who began to produce basically for OKC.

And I just don't think that, you know, I don't know what happened with the San Antonio, but they had no adjustments. After, what is the number 55 kept just basically guarding Wembe Damner and half court and at the top of the key. And he sort of wore Wemby down where Wimby couldn't get position and he just made Wimby work. there was nobody who basically got any offense going for San Antonio. And then it just felt like that there was like almost like a switch that went off with OKC to say, hey man, we're getting ready to play the NICs. We have to go ahead and finish these guys. And I just don't think that Wemby had it in them.

If anybody looked at him and I just knew this last year from, we went on the playoff from with Ohio State. And I remember me just basically me being a fan, a contributor to the locker room and a contributor to the team. It was just a lot for me to go from hotel to hotel, city to city, and to mentally get into the space of me just gearing up as an adult to help the team and rule for the team. And when you're a great player, so much is asking you. You're getting on the plane. You're going from San Antonio. You're going to OKC.

You're going to do media. And then you have to perform every night. And maybe Mace can speak to this from going from city to city to tour to give, like, the maximum level performance. I think, like, on some level that's emotionally draining. And so I think that's what basically caught up to him. And I think also OKC just wants to get this thing over to get to the New York Knicks in the championship. All right. So are we saying this a foregone conclusion that OKC wins this series?

Because that's what I'm thinking. But I want to make sure that's what I'm hearing from you, Mo. That's what I'm hearing from you. And the reason being, I think, is just a lot to ask from Wemby when OKC has that much depth and have the ability to win. wear him down through schemes, through just making the game tough on him, through making him fight through four and five people, rebounded and fighting for the ball down low. That's just my opinion.

Pause. Yeah, I think when it comes down to teams like this, I mean, I know McCain wasn't usually a starter, right? So they throw him into the lineup. When your bench players can get 20, and then he's playing a crazy game, back-to-back-threes. Now I'm ready to – I'm not ready to paint my nail. But, you know, I got a little bit more of respect for him now that he's hitting these kind of threes,

forcing timeouts. You got my boy Caruso coming off the bench, just making a difference, putting his fingerprints, pause on the game. You know, when you got two players that could come off the bench and get you 20, in fact, they got about three that could come off the bench and get you 20. It's hard to beat that kind of team. You got people like Jay Will not really playing well. and he's still putting up a little bit of points,

but then you got Shay getting 32. This is like, who you're going to stop? Who do you want to stop? That's what this series is turning into. And it seemed like every other game, three more players get going, right? So sometimes Vassell, sometimes it's Castle, then sometimes is Wembe,

then some time is Harper. And I love this kind of series. I grew up on these kind of series where the West Coast teams was getting in the numbers of 120 and 115. These are the kind of games I used to stay up late to watch as a kid. I'm really refreshed. Paul is thinking about how the NBA is becoming competitive again. I'm happy people are not just joining teams and putting a bunch of talent on one team. But this game, I knew OKC was going to win.

I knew OKC was going to win because you can't allow any team to win back-to-back games. Once you win back-to-back games, the series is over. So I look forward this. I'm going to say something that's a shocker. I'm looking for OKC to close this in game six. I'm not seeing this going to game seven. I don't want it to go to game seven. I want to see the orange and blue versus the orange and blue.

So everybody up there is shouting going crazy. I heard one guy the other day, man. Are we talking about the Knicks today? No, we're not. All right. Well, let me finish my tape. I had a guy sent, you know, send me a DM of the Knicks fans out there.

Y'all are just a mess, man. One guy, he's crying. He's talking about Jalen Brunson is his engineer. He's his doctor. He's his lawyer. Everything. He's his father. and this is a grown man.

He said, everything I do, I do for Jalen Brunson. The Knicks couldn't get more and more carried away as the fans. And then we got my boy, Mano. Mano, the skit was fire. I'm not going to lie, the skit was fire, you know. He had the white boy out there going sweep, sweep, sweep. So it's just the Nix fans be doing way too much. I can't wait to see the series Orange and Blue versus Orange and Blue.

Statt, what do you think? Orange and blue versus orange and blue. I want to say regarding this game, I just think Wembe just had a really off game. Like, OKC played to their strengths, and SGA had a way better game than he did the last game, and they actually used the other role players, like you said. This was Jared McCame's first career playoff start.

He did great. You want to call him Nails. You guys can call him whatever, because there's always a moment where somebody got something to say. That's cool. Jared McNellows. As long as he keeps playing, Well, I ain't mad, but I mean, I feel like, yeah, a lot of people were distracted by that type of thing,

but he could always play. I still don't really understand why the Sixers even traded him to begin with because they didn't even really give him the opportunity to cook. So now I feel like he's found his home and he has understood his role with Okie. How is he going to cook? I was cooking. He literally just had an injury and then he came back and it's like, all right, we're going to trade you. He can do whatever he wants to do. His PR is amazing because regardless, you're going to see him on social.

media so shout out Jared McCain but like I said shout out the jerk McNeils McCain you know New York got to give him a nickname Jared McNell's McCain he might have a couple nicknames but I'm just call him Jared McCain okay shout out to him and then even like we've been talking about in the series how Chet has been playing this was a lot better of a game for him he was six and nine from the field so I just feel like overall O KC stepped it up and made adjustments that they needed to they did really good at containing Wemby. But it wasn't Chet. It wasn't Chet.

No, I'm saying their group is, like, you got Caruso, you got Jerry McCann, you got SGA playing his role. Chet played better. Like, we need every player to play better for OKC to be where they need to be. And I think that they showed up this game. Hartenstein, the former Nick, get ready, New York. The difference maker. Get ready, New York, Sin City, Josh.

Hey, listen, all you New York fans, get ready. Y'all got rid of them. he's on O KC 1611 I think he's trying to come home and make noise I forgot said I apologize no you're you everybody is go ahead Marys yeah go ahead Moe Lone step number two No so but what I felt like I was watching was just like when they said Jordan had played the pistons back in the day and he didn't have

just the pieces he need to basically make the championship run. I think that's what we're watching with the Wimby and that you'll, like as I've seen Wimby struggling, he'll go back and watch his tape. And I don't think the Spurs will get it done this year even though I jumped on the bandwagon and wanted to see him basically get to the championship.

But they'll say, hey man, we need some other pieces. We need more in depth to basically compete with this. And so I think this is about to be a great rivalry for the next two, three, four, five years to come as long as they can keep the teams assembled. if they can meet the cap space. But that's what I felt like I was watching with Wemby last night. Somebody who just doesn't have enough pieces on the team

to basically get it done past the experience. But young, O KC. I want to say I do agree Wembe needs more pieces, but also just somebody at his caliber and who he is. We also know, no, we also know what Wembe is capable of. And I think it's also just accountability, like this just wasn't off game from him because he shot four and fifteen from the field oh and five from the three you in this game obviously that's costly this is not the game

where you need to be trying to do all that like most of his points came from his free throw so yes it may be true that he needs more pieces but also in this game as a whole wimby was just going through the motions unfortunately and it's like we need that switch to come on like yo next game if it's this is it this next game is it so I just need him to turn that on and I know that that he's capable of that. Now, do I know if the Spurs are going to win? I don't know. I don't know.

No, no, no, no. We are not giving Wimby out talking about now Wimby need more pieces. That's not what we're going to do here. I agree. It is what it is. You're ruining the name of the show. It is what it is. Listen, if you got your boy Wembe playing with Bacell, he's playing with Castle, he's playing

with Castle, he got Fox, he got a lot of players on his team. man, he got big-time players. This is not no play-play team. And then you got my boy, Keldon Johnson. This is not a play-play team. This is not a team where you can say,

oh, the guys I'm playing with are not good. Then you got Harper. You got, you got real talent on his team. Come on now. The other day, they're up to one. And what my boy, Killers said? Killers said, you know what? They got a great.

They got great. talent. He also talked about how when it comes to this kind of team that he did say they may need another year, but we're not going to say you need more pieces. The only thing they don't have is a power forward. But this is a league where you could play somebody small at power forward. They could put, if they were thinking about the championship, I told you all earlier, they had to play Harrison Barnes, and they had to play them earlier to get them some more minutes. So when it comes to this type of situation he could be ready you can't throw people in there you haven't been playing them all year.

Maurice, I know you had a comment. Oh, so like there was like when you see Hartstein picking him up and if my main contributor, if the spark of my team, if the biggest contributor of our mentality mindset outside of Kelton Johnson is Wembe, once you start wearing him down at the top of the key, once you start, how do you say the name, Holtonstein, Hartnstein? Hartinstein, Harvey said his name. Yeah, Hartinstein, my fault, I didn't mean to mess his name up. After you just seen him as a coach just literally beating Wimby up,

there's no other office, there's no other production, right? They were just going up and down to court at some point, and then when you see Wemby dragging ass down to court, and I'm pretty sure y'all see the same thing I see, like, you know, ball coming off the rim, there's no spark to get up and down to court. There's just nothing there. There's no engine.

You have to have somebody else who can feel that, to say, okay, let me get going. That was the whole complaint with Jalen Brunson for the Knicks for the last two or three years. There's nobody else who can give any productivity. And so that's what I'm saying. To me, you have to have somebody else who can give you a little bit more Steph Castle will give you great defense, but he's not about to give you, you know, 15 or 20 points, you know, saying, I just don't know where you're going to have it. You'll have Kelton Johnson. He'll come off the bench and he'll bruise his way in there. He'll bully to get a bucket down low and he'll be the mentality of the team.

But I'm just talking about somebody else who can consistently give you more production on the officer side of the ball until Wemby Fons is flowing the game. That's what I'm saying. Mo, what do you mean that Stefan Castle won't give you 20 points? He had 24. Well, I'm talking on a consistent basis. Now, Steph is my man from Yukon, but even stuff at Yukon. This switch up is crazy.

This guy's from, he's from Yukon. Nick, I hope you're recording this. We got to send this back to the University of UnCon, man. I don't understand, Mo. You haven't been wearing the gear lately. You're not wearing the OSU stuff. And now you're saying Stefan Castle can't produce 20 often? No.

What has he averaged all year? And I might be putting my foot my mouth, but what has he averaged all year? Oh, my goodness, Mo. I'll let Nick. Nick can chime in because I'm pretty sure Nick can look it up. 17 points, Mo, I think, is around 17. 16.7 for Stefan Castle.

5.3 rebound, 7.4 assists. It's close to 20, Moe. Come on. It's basically 20. All right, well, I'm going to give you $16. And you're going to call it 20. 17. You know, in the Sporting Good store, they make you put an extra $3 on there for the youth sports.

So it's going to end up being 20, Mo. Yeah, that's your man. Nah. Listen, we talk about 24 then, 13, okay, I'll let you have it. I'll let the show go on. I won't belabor the point. No, because we can't even move from this game yet

because the last thing I got to ask you about, you know, a lot of people are mad about the refs. The fans are saying this is bad hoops from the refs. They're just basically trying to give it to, okay C we're seeing SGA with 16 for 17 from the three-throw line. How do you feel about that mace or do you feel like that take is tired? Like we can't always blame the rest or you feel like not like the rest might. Nah, you can't.

Listen, listen, I grew up in a time where you don't leave it up to the refs, right? So what that mean, fellas, is that when the ref brings the captains of the team to half court, the ref tells you what type of game we're going to play before it even starts. If anybody that's a real player, they know that. The ref is going to tell you in a game like this, hey, fellas, I'm going to let you win the game tonight. It's not going to be up to me. Because if we call everything, then you say we're cheating.

If we let you guys play, you say it's getting too rough and the refs should call it. So which one is this, that? Should we let the refs call everything? And, I mean, not call anything. Then you say somebody going to get hurt out here. So what is he done? He calls everything, and now you're mad with that.

Either way it goes, players are going to get mad that lose. That's why you don't allow yourself to be on the opposite end of the win, right? Because I'm going to decide if we win. If he's calling it for them, he's calling it for you, and if he's not, that's why you practice harder than your neighbors. Because when you get there, you got to be able to play better than the team. And they always told you this growing up. There's somebody working.

tired. There's somebody working. So you could be prepared for moments like this. I can't say you can pay $50 million and it was up to the ref. I remember playing in the parks for $100 and we wasn't going to let the calls win the game. No, the toughest player is going to win the game. And anybody out there that played basketball growing up and you played somebody for money, you know this. The calls are not going to win the game. The best players are going to win the game. And right now, O'KC is looking like the best team. And Marys, how are you feeling about the refs? Yeah, I'm probably the same sentiment as Mace.

There's an old saying in football, they say, leave no doubt. And really what it is is that you don't leave it up to the rest to basically decide the game and beat somebody to the point where they say, hey, it's decisive. But that's just what does. That's the nature of it. You know, if things don't go your way, you're going to, or somebody is going to say, hey, a ref influenced that call.

And then when you're at this point of the season, and everything that you've done up to this point means everything. And the fact of the matter is, you know, this is just championship talk. Nobody remembers or nobody even cares if he became like very close. They'll only remember the person who came out as the victor. And so everybody knows that stake. And really your whole season doesn't mean shit if you don't win it all. And so Spurs were thinking like that.

Okay, C is thinking like that. The Knicks and the Cavs were thinking like that. Obviously, the Knicks came out victorious. But, you know, if you don't mean it all, it doesn't mean shit. So you start to, you know, express itself if things don't go your way and try to put it on the refs. Yeah, you put it on the refs. And if you really start getting blown out, pause, then you get hurt.

That's what people do when they start losing a series. Somebody always act like they're injured. They miss a layup or something. They hit the floor and then they just hold their stomach or hold their wrists or get carted off. That means the series is over. So look for it. Next game. If somebody just started acting like they hurt all of a sudden, they're down nine with two minutes to go.

Somebody's going to get hurt. Just remember this state. We're hoping nobody gets more. Not getting hurt. I mean, fake hurt. No, but like the vibe. I mean the fake hurt. All of a sudden, ah, I got to sit.

Yeah. You know what happens. But, my pinky is jam. I will say, sometimes the refs do be tripping. I'm not going to lie. Because as a fan, when we're watching the game, I don't want to see Lou Dora laughing with Tony Brunners. I don't want to see them.

I kiki-ing. I don't want to see all that. So. Yeah, but they are the champs. To each their own. I remember they used to do this for the Detroit Pistons. You got to beat the champs, right? This is the same thing in boxing.

You can't say the reps jerk you. Pause. Listen, you got to beat the champs. The champs is supposed to get the favor of the referees. Just like the best play on the floor gets the call from the referees. Everybody that knows sports knows this, right? We're not going to let you hurt, Moe, why are you running for the touchdown at OSU? They got a call at.

That's a flag. You grabbed your mask. Even if a finger get on it. We got a call out because this is prime real estate, you know? Did you know that stat? But there's precious cargo on the other team, too. Yeah, there's precious cargo. I'm talking about, but these are the champs.

Yeah. Isn't that why you want home court advantage? Yeah. That's the purpose of home court advantage. Things are going to go your way. Yeah, don't forget this. Like, you know, great point to say that. But then the refs also are also fans of the people that they're reffing.

Like, that's a real thing. You know what I mean? And so if you're a good player and, you know, these refs have kids, these ref has fans. So? I'm just saying, you know, so. What? They're friends with them.

I don't give a damn. We don't want to see that. Go, stat. We don't want to see that. I don't want to hear that. That makes even worse. Go up to shit in another game. Go do.

Y'all can't be bros. I don't care if your kids like this player. Yeah, you can't be bros while you're refereing. What is Moe talking about? But do you see the ref the ref is wearing? It wouldn't be so bad. if the ref wasn't wearing SGAs. Now the ref is wearing SGA's calling these foul.

It's kind of wow. He got to switch his sneaker choice up. Hey, ref, if you're watching this, where some Kobe's, where some LeBrons, do anything but where these SGAs why the calls are skeptical. You know, does that matter to you?

It all matters. Whatever it is, we're not doing that. No, I'm saying. If he's calling bad calls, But he's also wearing the SGAs. Is that really a no-go? We can't go for that. We can't do that.

Is that more obvious, Mo? He was wearing SGAs. He can't do that. Stamp, stamp, stamp, stamp. So if you said he was a fan, he's really a fan. He's wearing the SGA's. I don't know. I don't know.

But game six, though, it'll be a movie, so make sure y'all tap in because that will. will be the one. That's what I will say. Yeah, I'm bringing my popcorn for game six. That you run back. Yeah, I need to bring the popcorn out for game six.

Okay, so now looking on to the Cavs, we've had some discussions about them. What are they going to do with their team? Are they going to split up this core? What's going to happen with James Hardin? One thing we do know for sure is that their coach, Kenny Aiken, will be returning despite them being swept by the Knicks. So, Mace, I'm actually going to ask you, do you believe this is in the best interest of the team?

saying some things got to go, but do we think the coach is good to stay? No, no, I'm just going to go straight forward. The coach is a no-go. Like, he was doing a great job before it seemed like James got there. Now it seemed like they're trying to blame James, and I would do that too, right? But I think if you're going to get rid of the coach, you got to get rid of James too. And I love James Harton. He's like one of my favorite players when it comes to the NBA other than Kevin Durant.

So as you can see that original OKC team, those are all my favorite players. Russ, James Hardin, KD. But when it comes to this situation, it's just a new day. It's a new day. It's a new day. It's no other way to see it. I don't think you get swept by a team and keep the coach. There's no way possible.

Because what that means is that the team didn't love him enough to win a game for him. Are you hearing me? The team got to not want to lose this game to make you lose your job. I think there got to be a conversation between players and the coach. Like, don't go out here and help me lose my job. Play for me if you're not going to play for yourself. I would do it for you. If you needed a certain stat to win this money or to get this bonus in your contract,

I would make sure we run the play for you. I think we all agree on that sentiment. So don't go out here as no team with two Hall of Fame guards and end up, end up getting swept out. End up getting swept by one one, one, one Hall of Fame, going to be a Hall of Fame guard. and role playing guards, that just don't make sense. That's not the James I know.

That's not the Donovan. I mean, that's just not good. So I think if you get rid of the coach, you got to get rid of James Harden, too. And maybe on the next team, he turns up. I think he should go low management, not only leave this team, but do low management, so you can have some energy to go crazy in the playoffs. So just to clarify, because they're keeping the coach, you feel like because there's potential with James Hardin going somewhere else, even though we don't know yet, he should go to just. I think both of them goes.

Like me, you know, me, I'm a stickler for change. I'm an advocate of change. Everything I do is about change. So I think if you're really trying to winning, you're serious about winning, the only way you keep this coach and James Harden is if you could keep them all and get LeBron James. can't keep everybody and bring LeBron James, you get rid of both of them. Okay, Maurice. Yeah, I said this probably three, four weeks ago when I seen, it was a Detroit game, and I seen like they, even though they won the series, you can see that when things

got serious, there was no switch or there was no button of seriousness that happened on the court. and that button of seriousness and guys sort of getting serious and being serious and being intense with intense moments, that stuff is typically reflective of your coach and his personality. And I will speak about Dan Hurley and I'll speak about Ryan Day. And it's kind of a build on to Mace's point. And it's at a certain point that when players are playing and all of the practicing, the meeting, the messaging, and all of the things that you do to basically build a championship program

or just a championship mentality, the players start to take that mentality on, and they do it really for the pride, right? The pride of the coach, the proud of the staff. And you say, man, these ballfuckers ain't about to sweep us out of here. We're not about to go through every game and not lose any game. And if I'm Dan Gilbert or if I'm the GM of the team and you go back and look at that series, when things sort of got fixed, so to speak, with the Knicks,

and you've seen Jalen Brunson and you just seen the Knicks sort of fighting, there was no fight in Cleveland. There was no assertiveness by Donovan Mitchell. So now I see with Shaq being one of the greats, I see why he said what he said about Donovan Mitchell because he understands there's a different part in your brain and a different level of seriousness that he probably didn't see Donovan Mitchell have.

And none of that stuff sort of like showed. And so I'm on that same boat. I would get him out of here. I think there's a lot of coaches who end up benefiting from being a part of championship brands, right? you'll be an assistant coach with a great brand and the brand ends up giving you opportunity and rightfully so when somebody's choosing you

to be a part of their franchise but you may not be a leader of men right you may not be the guy who can lead men to the promised land to give them the attitude to give them the confidence to when there's 20, 30, 40,000 people in the stands they can look to you and say, hey man we're going to pull from your confidence to basically make this happen and I just don't think he has that I'm from Ohio.

I understand what Northeast Ohio is all about, and that just doesn't represent the brand. You sort of need that connection with your fan base that mimics that sort of a mentality, but that's my opinion. I wouldn't have brought it back. I don't know. I think it's a clearance cell.

Everybody must go. Damn. Yeah, I think both. I've got to go. It's clear. You got to stop playing with people, especially when a lot of money is moving. Dan Gilbert don't cross me as a guy that's going with that.

You know, he's already been through this before when they were in the playoffs. And I think Indiana did them dirty. Pause. Now the Knicks got them out of there. And if you got a team that's really playing this well in the regular season, then it's a lack of attention to detail that's causing this to happen in the playoffs. You've got to have your team mentally prepared to play these kind of games. And also, they got to want to win.

And they got to want to win for each other. And remember I said this before the playoffs started, Nick could pull up the clip. I know he's not going to pull up the clip right now. But we always said that at least I said this from Titletown, that this team has not had enough chemistry to be able to beat a New York team. or any team they would get against. I was surprised they beat the pistons, actually, because I just knew they didn't have the continuity to get it done. They was always playing this ISO ball,

and it's like, you take your shot, then I take my shot, and it's your goal this turn, and now is my goal, and you just can't win with that kind of mindset. So while people be trying to down James Hardin and saying he's getting old, I just think the ISO ball, is the thing, pause, that's causing his stats to go down. If he would learn to play within a system and then when the system break down, go one-on-one,

he could have some more years because I really want to see him do well. He just got to learn how to play a system, but his style of ball has always been the system. I'll say, regarding... Maurice, you can go, then I'll go, because I want to just be able to be in my complete sentence. No, go ahead.

Go ahead. Okay, I was just going to say regarding, I'll call him, Coach Kenny, right? I actually think he did a really good job. Like, I know, I'm not saying we're celebrating a sweep because that's unacceptable for sure. But given, like, the Cavs season as a whole, I mean, you and Campbell said, like, it was a foregone conclusion, like, the Knicks should be making it to the finals. So it's like, if we're going to talk about the end of the road, even them beating Detroit. it was like, damn, I don't even know how y'all got here. So the fact that they got here,

I don't think that he did a bad job. And even just looking at, you know, last season and that being his first year and even them, you know, like him winning coached the year, then making it to the second round, I know they lost the Pacers. Like, overall, I don't know what my expectations were, but he definitely exceeded them.

So I feel like it would make sense for them to, you know, continue using him and seeing where it goes. Now, regarding James Hardin, I don't know because I always say, you know, you're always as good as your last performance, and I just feel like he could have played better in certain games. But I think if you give him some time, they'd be able to figure something out. But I wouldn't say, oh, the coach got to hit the fan because I don't think Mr. Kenny's bad. I think he's doing pretty dang good.

So that'd be my opinion on that. But, Marys. Last year they lost. Wait, wait, Moe, before you go, last year they lost 4 to 1. this year they lost 4-0. How is he doing a good job if he gets to the second round? In two years, in the second round, he got one win. Yeah, I know the second round they could do better,

but I'm saying my expectation wasn't even for them to get where they got. I would think, especially last year, like I said, we're looking at the best teams in the East of me, which you would say are the NICs, which you would say are the Celtics, and then even the calves, even just making that placement, I just think if they make some adjustments on their specific roster, I don't really think it's too much of coaching issues. I think that they've done pretty good.

I don't think he is the problem. That's my opinion. They had the number one seed in the east last year. So if you're the number one seat, you don't get beat second round four to one. But also, I mean, the Pistons also lost two. Like we're seeing this year, we're like, okay, the Pistons are going to win like,

Kate, I didn't expect them to lose to the cap. So that's what I'm saying technically, not even technically, they did exceed our expectations because I didn't expect them. I'm saying even this year, like beating the pistons because that wasn't the expectation that I had. Oh, yeah, I could definitely see that. But when you say the number one seat lost second round and only got one game. Yeah, but that was also his first year.

That's why I'm like, I feel like for your first year and I'm not saying it's good, obviously, to lose in the second round, but to even getting the. there. And I know you're saying they were the first. They had the first seat. I understand that. But I'm saying in general, they exceeded my expectations. So I feel like instead of giving him the boot this second year, I don't think it's hurtful for them to try again the third year and then maybe switch up some roster spots. That's my opinion. Let me give you. Go ahead, Mark. Let's give you an example. So you know who James Dolan is? Yes. So James Dolan had to sit down and make a decision. And he said, Tom Tibado can only get me so

far. And he probably said, okay, what is the other ingredient that this man doesn't have? Great coach. He keeps on getting us to a point. But right now I'm talking about a championship mentality. Championship mentality in the regular season, you do well. You sell tickets. You get us to the conference finals because we have like the East is a week. Like the East is a week, we can all admit to that, right? So if you have a good team assemble, you'll just win a bunch of games and you'll get to a certain spot. But when you're trying to take the next step, and I don't know if the coaching pool is out there like that, but I would have basically tried to solicit somebody. He's not the guy. Like, whoever ends up winning the championship, even when you go look at Joe Mazzola, even as mild

mannered as Joe Mazzola is, he still has a command and an assertiveness about him that he commands or some level of authority out of his players on the court when they went out there and won. And when you've seen those guys going to fight for the championship with the Celtics, they were fighting. Right. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's the championship spirit. There was never a point or you can ever go and say Cleveland fought, right? They won the games against Detroit, and there was like some theatrical moments, but you still have to fight.

Like, when you see OKC, they're fighting, like, I'm not like a basketball official. I don't know a bunch about every fucking detail of it. But everybody recognizes effort, passion, persistent. Fortitude, like all of the stuff that you build sports on just when you're pursuing greatness. And you don't see that out of the coach. And I hate to say it, like you may be a part of like championship brands before, but you just don't see that out of him. Right. Even there's an intensity out of Mike Brown now.

Mike Brown is mild matter, glasses on cool. But when it's time to like getting players ass, pause, he's demanding greatness. And you kind of see that on the quarter. So that's what I was saying. And like your answer is not wrong, but I was given a perspective of, like, like somebody's good and they can take you to a point, but they're not the person to take you to the ultimate level, which is to win a championship.

Yeah, I don't think my answer is wrong because this is an opinionated show, so that is my opinion that I'm making clear. And I hear you, I didn't feel like I saw that fight from the calves, but also what I'm saying is I didn't even expect the calves to get where they got. So before I give their coach the boot, I think he can get another year to work with that roster,

even just regarding the addition of James Hardin. Like, if we're going to talk about the fight, I need to see that from James Harden. I need to see that from Jared Allen. I need to see that from Max Strick. Like, that's where I want to see the fight from. And in this case, I don't think I put the blame on the coach. But that's my opinion.

That's my opinion. That's what I'll say. You have to write to your opinions, that. You know what? You know what? that's what you that's your opinion thanks like thank you

I'm gonna let it I'm gonna say and I would love to know the comments opinion too because I mean yeah show I don't gotta agree with y'all and I'm not here to agree with y'all every episode because we got different views you like do you like losing

not at all but I'm saying I don't think Kenny Ackinson is doing a bad job he could do better what's it what's it? He could do better. He won one game. That's good.

I know right now I understand that, but I'm just saying like in this series are you saying that's good? I'm not saying. You're saying he's doing a good job. I'm saying it's better than I expected. It's better than I expected because after you beat the pistons, that exceeded my expectations. You've been hanging out of New York too long. No, I'm just saying like the agreements was that the Knicks, y'all said the Knicks were

going to go to the finals. Like the thought process wasn't, oh, we're going to see the Knicks play the cabs. Like, I don't think anybody thought that. We really thought it was going to be Detroit. Y'all let me know what y'all think in the comments. So when did he stop doing good? If you think he was doing the- It would be this round.

I feel like this wasn't a good representation of what they could do. You're great, Statt. This wasn't a good representation. representation. It wasn't. You've been hanging with the spinners too long. I'm just saying, but I was never, like, I was not, that was not, they were not people I was worried about. They weren't. And they got here, so we had to worry about them. Okay, then bring my boy James back. Give them his 47 million. Let them rock out then. If this is what we're doing. You want to bring James back. No, I'm saying if this is what we're doing, give them his 47. Get paid. The way they're talking is looking like he's going to. No, they need to give them in 47. I don't. All jokes aside. Pay my boy, for real. The way they're talking is looking like they're going to. Okay, so before we go to break,

just because we're on the conversation of the Cavs, of course, this is bringing questions about LeBron James. Should he be the next edition? Where should he go? Do we like this fit? So, Mace, how would you like to see LeBron James transition out of the game as we're coming to these final years? Man, I know people don't really, really believe that he'll,

make it to Cleveland, but I think that's where you end up at. I think Cleveland is the place to retire. I think, you know, that's the town. What a beautiful sight. If he's able to even bring Ronnie there, you know, I think Ronnie will get more run on Cleveland. So I think this will be a beautiful thing. I think it'll be a beautiful ending of a story. And who knows, you know. I just think Cleveland is the best place. Only other places, Miami. right but then I don't know if Pat Riley will let that happen

I think I think Cleveland got a lot of pieces that if LeBron goes there and he plays like he's been playing this year before you know before the end of the playoffs they could they could really have a shot to do something special

Maurice yeah I got a different opinion even when I seen the highlights of people talking like this, this felt like Jordan Wizardage Days. And I was like, man, it's just time for my man to exit stage left and leave on top. There's something about like when people are great and then once you start getting shuffled around and, you know, they ask you to take pay cuts and like just the environment for why people fell in love with you ain't the environment no more. Like for me, I don't want to see it, you know. And then, you know, you had the bad running. They got, um, you know, swept this last playoff series, I don't want to keep on seeing him past the days

and past his prime or past where he's been at, I think like, hey, man, you know, the thing that he's done with Brunney to bring him to the league, I think it was phenomenal and definitely a legacy moment. I think him being able to be the scoring leader was a legacy moment, him having all these championships was a legacy moment. And I just don't want to see it. I just don't want to see, like, you know,

you just have this decline. Just because, like, the conversation around him is changing. and it's not the same conversation we had. I think the league has moved on past them. And so it's kind of like watching just whoever you fell in love with and they had their moment and they had their time. But then those people just staying a little bit longer, you know, the lights and came on in the club

and they don't really know they ain't supposed to be there no more. And, you know, LeBron is phenomenal. I just want to see him leave, you know, go either own the team in Vegas or if he did come back to Cleveland, here's another idea. Maybe Dan Gilbert, you know, since he's at the latter part of his career, let LeBron buy into Cleveland

and be a partial owner and not a player. So that's what I'm out with the LeBron conversation and want to see him finish his career. Mo, I ain't like that take. More, I really didn't like that. Listen, listen. I had an epiphany. People would think I had an epiphany

and this will be a great one. How about LeBron go to Cleveland and bring both of his sons? sons to Cleveland. Forget playing pause with one son. Imagine them on the court just how it will look to have both of your sons. I mean, if you're going to go out crazy, go out crazy. If this is the last year, put $2 million into your body, you know, show up. And just that would be so crazy. What do you think, Statt? You normally like stuff like this. How do you think about this, that both sons on Cleveland?

That would be crazy. Honestly, I'm at the point where... Nah, that's crazy. No, I'm saying if he could... It sounds crazy, but if he could do it, I mean, selfishly, I don't... I would want to see it. No, I'm thinking, and I'm not seeing this jokingly. I'm saying...

Yeah. If you got the big bro on the team, get the second one on the team. I mean, just go out crazy, man. I like that. I like that. I like that take, actually. I really do. I don't care if y'all like it.

I think that's phenomenal in Cleveland, both of his sons. It will be three James on three jerseys with James on there. What should take stat? I don't know. I mean, me personally, just because I like stories like this, I would like to see him play with both of his sons, if that's in his cards. And I can't say it's in his cards because he can make it happen.

If I'm a little bro and you play with the oldest brother, play, put me on the team too. It's just that same. I'm not mad at it. Especially like, I mean, shoot, if you play good, that's just what we would like. We can't necessarily say that's going to happen. Yonis did it?

Yeah, he did. He definitely did. Yonis made it happen. Yonis did it. If Yonis could do it, Brian can do it. I mean, but we knew Brock could do. No, but I'm saying if this is his final year, I'm not,

I'm not saying his joking or trolling or nothing. If this is his final year, that's the way I'm going out. That's the way I'm going out. Let me ask you a question. So let me ask you another question, right? So, and I'm not even playing devil's advocate, right? I think that that would be a special moment, right?

I got two little boys. If I was able to play any professional sports, like personally I would, But how do you think that impacts his legacy personally if he did it? And I say it with context because it's someplace, as Bryce plays for Arizona. And Bryce, I don't think he got on the corkis here. Or if he did, he got on minimally. That's not taking shots at him.

It's just, you know, I didn't see him a whole lot playing this year. So how do you think that would plan to the LeBron legacy moving forward if he was to do something like that? Over time, that is, I'm not going to lie. That has changed for me. I still hold the sentiments that I hold on. other issues, but when it comes to what you do for your children, I got to respect that. As a father of two boys myself, I got to respect that. I got to respect because we're in a world where people have been given privileges

over us as young black men, our whole lives, right? So even when I look back, you know, because I have people that talk to me off of the air and talk to me outside of this commentating or analyst. And they say, just think about it. How many times have you gone somewhere and you were more qualified? But there was already somebody else that got that position. That's life. That happens all day, all of the time.

And over time, I really had time to think about that. if I could really put my child in a position to make millions of dollars, I wouldn't leave them in the league, but I would definitely give him the opportunity to make the money and then he could leave and then do whatever else he wants, but he was able to make that amount of money. I think that's phenomenal. So I'm not saying take somebody's career away, but if there's a spot he can take on the team and he can make a couple million dollars. I will want him to have his own millions of dollars.

Why not? Yeah. Marie's, what's your father's POV? Yeah, I mean, it's just the same thing, you know. And I don't know if I'm contradicting myself by saying it. But take context to LeBron is the year younger to me. We came up together. We, you know, we're in the same age, bracket, same everything, right?

And so as a peer and as a fan, you just like, you know, you want somebody to leave in a certain light because you always want to view them a certain way athletically. And, you know, I think once you start doing that, like it becomes something else. But from a father standpoint, you do want to do and give your kids privileges. And so I'm definitely on that same wavelength in regards to giving them my kids privileges. But then when there's, I don't know, the conversation about him, it becomes about everything but the basketball piece. And then I think that that just wouldn't fare well in regards to either spectators, fans, commentators, everybody else. And not like he gives a fuck about it too much because he obviously did the brownie thing,

but I just don't want another piece to be attacking him to say, hey, man, you've ruined this thing that as us black basketball players, we fight to get this opportunity to then make it to the league. I don't want that part of conversation. It's my self personally. Yeah, I think I'm just speaking of it in a different way. I don't think I'm speaking of it from a basketball savant area. I'm speaking of it from a dad perspective.

If you have the opportunity to give your son a job, think of it like that. If you have the opportunity to give your son a job, if you could make a call and get him the job, who would not make the call and get their son a job? See, when I think of it in that context, it is yes all day. It's the basketball side that make people argue with it. That's what was making me argue with it. But when it was simplified,

and I thought about it, if it's just a job, this is a job, are you not making a call to get your son the job? If you know just your call will get him the job, I want them to have a job I'll make the call It also happens across all industries all the time Literally all the time

It just is not as public Because this is a public type of thing Because obviously everybody's watching basketball And they're seeing the headlines But in those corporations And those Fortune 500 companies And those CEOs They're doing the same exact thing

It's just not public And like open to all this scrutiny where we're like, that shouldn't happen. And da-da-da-da-da-da. Like, I don't know. I basically what's for you is for you. And I don't think necessarily all the time giving somebody else a slot takes away from other people.

Because I also feel like you're supposed to have it. Sometimes it's a different question. I think this is very relevant too. So Mace, obviously, huge star. You've been a star across the globe, right? Was there ever anything in your career? because I would parallel your level of stardom with his, you know, just like a global phenomenon, right? Was there ever anything that you ever did that you say, hey, man, I've stayed, I can't do this thing anymore because I've outstayed my welcome.

You know, and I don't know if it's, you know, you can kind of go on, come asking for a minute. Like when we first asked the question, I was just asking just like at certain spaces and places, no matter how much sense it made to somebody else, was there anything that you ever did to say, hey, man, I just. just can't do this thing no more, no matter how bad. And it doesn't have to be music per se, but just a thing. With me, I've always left early. I always leave early. I never stay late. If it's whatever I'm doing, I was always taught to leave why they love it.

You know, whether it was music, whether it was school. You know, I've always left early. I never stick around for people to be like, yo, it's better, why are you still doing this? It's always better that people remember you in the height of whatever you were doing. You know, so I always believe that. From that aspect, I believe you should leave why they love you.

So, for example, to relate that to sports, when you see, like, Bill Belichick, you know, having this strong legacy in. too long. Yeah. So even that's something that I did learn from music, right? From my musical, um, musical mentor, he, he always say, you know, get off the stage and let them call you back versus staying on stage and people like this. You'd rather people say, one more record, one more record than you'd be out there so long that people are like, oh, man, enough is enough. And that's how people careers are.

Like, it's not that you're not good anymore. It's just you never gave me a break from you. So for me to enjoy it. Hmm. Paul. Yeah, but yeah. Go ahead. No, but like, so even just even that nuanced and conversation, you know,

like I just don't think people have that perspective because there's not a lot of people who have been globally famous or who can even parallel and have a discussion to give the wisdom. of why do you leave early or just like understanding, hey, man, you want people to call you back and you don't want to out where you walk up. And I just think that's just life advice and life wisdom in general. Because when people, when people look at you as a person who left early, in their minds, you're always, there's always that spark of, man, I remember how good this, this person was, pause, and what else they could have been. So you're always in the good.

graces of people. Think of Grant Hill. Same thing. If you leave early, people, it turns into the GM at the Atlanta Hawks, right? He didn't play that long, but because of how people remembered him, they remembered him on the high. They remember him like, okay, Grant was one of them ones. You get what I'm saying, his name always come up in a great light. And when your name come up in a great light, that allows you to travel down that role much further because there's no cleanup work. It's really just this person is there. We know what they used to be. We know what they meant to us. And now this new opportunity, I just want to have them around. That's basically how people feel about those people. And that's in different genres. The same thing is true.

But those people that outweigh they're welcome. And people want to push them out, they start looking for everything wrong about them and they critique everything or wrong about them because they just been there too long. And you know, when people see you all the time, it kind of people don't be so fond of you when they got a lot of access to you and they see you all the time. Maris, any final thoughts? Oh, no, I just, I was just listening and learning. Yeah, definitely drop some gems there. Don't overstay your welcome and don't be so access. Or you water yourself down. That's what I got from that.

Yeah, because people will see you and be like, yo, people will be like, man, I wish she'd go home. That's different. That's different versus, yo, you left, man. The party got crazy or whatever. And they want to call you back. They always want you to be around because they know it's going to be a great time. And then you leave. Yeah.

You know? And it's no longer a great time because you left. Take that. That's a great conversation. you all. But that is all the time that we have for today. Maurice, you know, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. Mo, good way to clean it up. Always.

You got that. You come back in there and coach and coach day. Listen, listen, I like the way you doing all of this, Mo, pause. But when are we starting our hotels? When are we starting this? Because I got to get this on the air because people ask me, what are you and Mo doing? You know. So, so, so stat, just so you can, what do you call them, clarity questions?

Yeah, there's a clarity answer. Right. So, look, so throughout the whole process, made students whole process of me, acquiring a hotel, getting a hotel, rocking and roll. And I gave them an open invite. I said, hey, man, you're more than welcome to join me and partner and move forward. And we can pick other places to do them. And so Mesa's known the whole time.

So there's always an open invite to partner and do business with the hotels. Your homeboy hit me up and he tried to schedule you a visit to come on out to Ohio. You want to visit the property so we can walk you through it. But it's on air and you can clip this and save this. It's an open invite for you to do business. So that's what I said. And so the work is a lot of good deeds. The people who we're helping to house and the people who we are doing is great community work.

It's humane work and work that's basically needed for society. I'm speechless. I'm speechless. I'm speechless. It's that. So save the clip. It's saved. It's saved.

It's in the archives. Now I'm in the hotel business, you know. It's in the archive. God bless you guys. Yes, this is a great conversation, y'all. Make sure y'all stay tuned because they're cooking up some things. But thank you all for watching. And as always, it is what it is.