IT IS WHAT IT IS - WHAT DO MA$E & CAM'RON HATE ABOUT MUSIC IN 2026 & IS THERE ANY LOYALTY IN COLLEGE ANYMORE?!

Episode Date: March 18, 2026

Ma$e, Cam’ron & Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson are back with another one!! Please rate, review, and follow the podcast for more content.  Listen to the show on Spotify!  https://open.spotify.com/show/4Brb7BgCw4f4jwgS5v3sXQ?si=811988ecff7b416a Listen to the show on Apple Podcasts! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/it-is-what-it-is/id1719695401 Keep up with us on social media! https://www.instagram.com/itiswhatitis_talk/ Snap:  https://www.snapchat.com/add/iiwii_talk2023  Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/ItIsWhatItIsTalk TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@maseandcam Twitter:  https://www.x.com/iiwiitalk Follow Our Hosts! https://www.instagram.com/masonbetha/ https://www.instagram.com/mr_camron/ https://www.instagram.com/treasurewilsxn/ Follow the show and our hosts on social media: ⁠⁠⁠It Is What It Is⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Cam'Ron⁠⁠⁠, ⁠⁠⁠Ma$e⁠⁠⁠, and ⁠⁠⁠Treasure "Stat Baby" Wilson⁠⁠⁠ , ⁠⁠⁠Producer Yooo Nick⁠⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Welcome back to It Is What It is. I'm Treasure Wilson, aka Stat Baby, along with your host, Mace and Cam. And today, we are joined with our analyst, Maurice Claret. Killer was good, man. Mo was good, man. Hey, hey, you finally back, man. Yeah. Been running from you all, Moe.

He's been on the rest of the palm trees. We moved them to the hotel, man. And we moved them to the hotel, man. Okay. What you have, Mace? We missed you. Yeah. Yeah, I've been, you know, going through, you know, making my rounds, you know.

Yeah. The Pentagon, different places, you know? Every way he need to be, but we need to be. Don't wait, Mo. You know what, Mo? I got to send you yours, too, for the days he missed. Murder 4,500 instances. He implied this new rule, man.

Yeah, he was the one who made the rule love. You got about what you got about $400 out this money, man. I got to sell you your $400, man. I mean, actually, Moe was late just now. You know, he went to go get headphones. We did say you got to be on camera ready. You ain't talking on the rules. Yo, you're wild, man.

You're wild, nigger, man. You're wild nigger, man. You ain't. You ain't put more on the tape. By all me, by any. means necessary. Yeah. I was about to say thanks for the plane ticket out there.

What you said? No, I was going to tell them thanks. You know, all the fines he got that's going to pay me for my plane tickets for coming out there next month. I was about to tell him things in advance. There you go. Well, glad everybody's here all together

because we needed this, you know. So I'm happy that your rounds are done for now, I hope. Yes, yes, yes. Okay. And actually, Sunday we win an award. They said we might win this award at the Ace Awards for the own podcast of the year. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Who decides shit like that? I don't know. Well, okay. They just let me know, so I'm letting y'all know. Thank you. Because you know what? It'd be yo, bro. We used to talk about the Oscars yesterday, right?

And we knew it wasn't going to be two white people and two black people. So who's really deciding? Yeah. And they, like, I always think about that, right? Like, what makes you decide who's going to be the winner? Which your credit? Not to ask you, just any awards. Like, who are you to decide who wins?

Which your credibility? So it's like, for instance, right? And there's no disrespect and no shot, right? Mm-hmm. You know the podcast or the dialogue? Yeah. Which I think is a good podcast, decent podcast. Mm-hmm.

I think it's a real decent podcast, but he's from Texas, right? And you got New York niggas talking about other New York niggas to a Texas nigger. Shit like that. John DeMarco. Yeah.

Don DeMarco. That's what I'd be bugging me out. You know what I'm saying? Bang, bang. Exactly. So, that's to be out of me. while like shit like that that's what i'm kind of mean with the awards and shit man okay so moving on to some football so USC legend matt liner revealed that he has been approached by USC officials multiple

times about whether he would unretire his jersey number for some five-star prospect he said he told those guys absolutely fucking not i'm never going to unretire my jersey for some random dude who by the way now could wear number 11 and transfer after a year so maurice just to put it in a scenario if the school offered a legend a million dollars to rent their number to a recruit, do you think that that's an offer that they should take? Or do you feel like legacy isn't too important? It shouldn't happen. What are your thoughts on that?

Yeah. I personally, what if it was a scenario where I got to offer a million dollars, a half million dollars, I would take that number and I would rent it out and it would be a small business for me, right? And most of you guys who could be in that scenario played in an era or at a time that they probably didn't make a ton of money, especially if they were doing at the collegiate level. You couldn't make money. So being in a scenario where you could make money from something that you did years ago really makes sense. And I've never had a number of retired, so I don't have Matt's perspective. But for me, I heard Michael Irvin explain something when he talked about

CD Lamb that switched my thinking about this. And he was talking about, hey, man, as long as C.D. Lamb is out there or anybody who wears number 88, they sort of keep him relevant. And I never thought about that, but subconsciously I would see 88 and always think about Michael Irvin, which kept him in the conversation. If you see Mike Irvin now, you know, Mike is 60-all years old and he's still in the sporting conversation. I don't know if that paid tribute to it or what, but I don't feel the same way about it, but then again, I don't have a number of retired, but that's just my thoughts on it.

Yeah, Mo, you keep saying your number is not retired. We got to talk to them about that. Next time I'm in Ohio, we got to talk about this. When did I be, man? No, literally. when he makes his rounds I get somebody on the phone right now I'm from Ohio

I actually been working on this but I'm not going to do it right now but shout out to you know DTG Rich and everybody in Cleveland, Ohio man because I know people in Ohio I just don't feel to let y'all know everybody that I know

You're about the only one who believed that I'm there. Okay. Okay, look him up. His name DTG Rich. Look like you just looked them up. You got your phone in here. No, I was about to call him. I was about to call him.

It might be too late, you know. He might be sleep, you know. Gotcha. But yeah, when we're talking about that number being retired, I really think, Mo, your number needs to be retired, So much you've done for Ohio State, you know, you definitely got to get your number of retired. But when you think of this situation up at USC, I would say the same thing. When you think about who you're unretiring it for is going to matter, right?

You don't want some guy, like you said, just getting up there, you know, just want the number because he had it in high school, not really serious about the sports. Love just N.I.L. Dills. You know what I'm saying? and he's just going to put smut on the name. You can't retire it after you aren't retire it. So for me, I would want my number to stay retired. We talked about this before. Cam wanted all this stuff for the high school to retire his jersey.

And I wanted them to put my number at half court, Mo. So I'm serious about that retirement. And if they couldn't do it, I can't help. I can't help the way I would. They was asking for too much for me not to get my number at half court. because I knew killer was going to have his number hung on the rafters. So I was going to have my number of course. So we both thinking the same way about the retirement of a jersey.

So I would have came in and saw killer number up. That's the first thing I'm thinking. You know, you got to put my name on the ceiling or something. I'll tell you how crazy this is. They were giving one of us a street. I don't know who went first, but they were giving one of us a day in Harlem, and then the next day,

the other person had a day in Harlem. It's just like that. Whatever they're doing, they got to do it for the best when it comes to people who want, and them was retired, or they want to be acknowledged. It was on you, killer.

Mace is capping at that last story. They was giving us a day in Harlem a piece. It was supposed to be me and Mace on stage at the concert. and we had a concert to Apollo and we're supposed to do it at the concert at the Apollo

Mace calls the lady that I plug him into I tell him about her and says he doesn't want to do it with me on the stage at Apollo. This is dead ass. I plug him into the lady and giving us a certificate and everything else.

He doesn't want to do it with me. He needs his separate in another date and not in Apollo in front of Apollo. Now the only reason I didn't be like, yo, this niggas, wow, this nigger, like, I don't really get this nigga. It's because he did it with his family.

So I was like, okay, he had his kids there. Got his wife there. And I was like, yo, I ain't cool. I didn't get an invite. I wasn't invited or nothing. So he did his totally separate from mine, and I got mine the next day at the show. He's telling the Drew Mom. I just was thinking.

about Mo. You know how that is, Moe does know. Mo does know. Mo got a wife. He got kids. Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, you're thinking you're going to bring him there and it's going to be sinned. It's going to be Duke to God. It's going to be all of this. I said,

nah, I'm not bringing my kids to this. Damn. And I love them, you know. But I need this one separate. Larry understands it. I've had it. Yeah, yeah.

It was my plug. It's great. Do you understand that, Stad? No. I'm in place. No, actually, like, I do. To a certain extent. But then he's saying if he threw it up.

I didn't even get an invite. You see, this is the first time we talked about. I never said nothing to him about it. I never, I just ignored it. But I said that. You had your wife and your family there. I said I totally get it. I understand that.

But as far as Matlana is concerned, look, this is, listen, and I've been on for kids getting their money, right? But this is where we're at with NIL. To where it's just, it's the Wild West. You play for a team for six hours. You go play for another team for two hours. You're getting a portal. Yo, this shit is wild, man.

I always wanted people to get their money. So now, right, you may have to. number one play in the country, right? And you sit there and say, yeah, we want you at USC. And he'd be like, I can't play without that number 11. If that was Mike Landis number, I'm not sure. He's like, yeah, number 11, right?

They said, I would come there, but I have to have number 11. They're like, yo, Matt, ha, ha, what's that, nigga? You been all right? Yeah, yeah. Now, how's the family? you know we got this money for you this kid won't come you know Matt Liding went the fuck over said absolutely not because you got to think about this it's been 20 years since he's played there it's probably not the same people there

that played that's coaching there when he was there so on and so forth so you got a new regime there um saying yo I don't even know the nigga Matt like that but we do have an opportunity to get the number one player in the country if he got number 11 least we could do is call an ax-mat So Matt said, no, he went off. And y'all think about this. I was being facetious, but at the same time, this is a kid who could come play for one year, right?

And then get into the portal and say he don't want to play for another year. Matt Lannett put his blood, sweat and tears in USC and won them a national championship. You know, he's just right under Reggie Bush, if you ask me, as far as stature at USC. Caleb Williams now is in that conversation, but I don't know if Caleb Williams won a national championship. We're talking about somebody who won the national championship. championship to where the point being is they said he was that good that we don't want nobody else

wearing that number so 20 years later and iL is involved and now they said yeah we need to bar that for a minute so i'm happy he said no i don't know how they're going to get a wrangle on this nil thing because i do want the kids to get their money but this shit is just getting week by week month by month this shit gets crazier when it comes to nil deals man so yeah I also want to add that he did say if he were to unretire it, it would only be for his son Cole or his other two boys if they happened to play football and went to USC. And then he also said that his son had actually asked him at one point if he would be willing

to unretire for another player. So he said he was like, hey, dad, this linebacker, I think he's going to SC. He wants to wear your jersey. So not even just like the facility, his son too. So brings a lot of elements into it. But Maurice, you were about to make a point. What were you going to say? I would just, it was more or less to Cam's point where he says getting out of control.

I remember where it used to be like an honor for kids to go to college campuses if somebody invited you to a game. But these kids charge schools now. Like if you want to go to somebody's campus, they'll say, hey man, I'm charging you to come to your campus just to view and see what's going on. So when you talk about the wild wild west, that's like an understatement. These kids literally, it's almost like they wake up and see whatever they can get from the school. university, and if they can get it, you know, all the other kids end up playing copycats. So, you know, if you've gotten a million or two from a school to ask for a jersey, you feel like, man, just what I'm doing.

You're saying in recruitment, they have to, like, they're asking to be paid? No, not asking. They're getting it. So, so say if I'm a top recruit, right? And I'm from Ohio. And stat is at, you know, Tennessee and you want me to come visit your campus. All right, you go pay me $15,000 to come. You know, before kids used to want to go to the university to see the university,

and it was like an honor just to get tickets. And now it's the other way around. Kids pay you, they're forcing schools to pay them just to come visit them to show them the campus. Wow. I did not know that because I know like time is money, but that's like, dang. I was just about to say the same thing. Listen, homie, time is money, man. I don't got time to come here and just listen.

You want me to spend my weekend over here? It's $15,000. I don't matter. What's your shit staff? You can get away with it. No, but that's great. Like, if you're on a college tour, like eight campuses, you're getting 15K for each college you go to for you to potentially play.

That's insane. But that's a business. But the whole, see, that's why I'm not really mad at the kids because I'm just saying there needs to be some regulations on it because think about this. There's been a billion dollar business for years. And somebody like Maurice Clorek could benefit from this. being a superstar at Ohio State. You know, we think about all these stars

that could have benefited from NIL. Think about Alan Navison, NIL. Think about Reggie Bush, NIL. Think about Shaquille O'Neal, NIL. You know what I'm saying? It's a lot of people that have been in hundreds of millions and then went into the billions of dollars to where these people have not been getting money,

these kids actually have not been getting money for decades. So it's almost like giving back for what they did to the cold crush. But now it's just wow because there's no regulation on it. Zero. Like I could picture somebody being like, you know, I'm a college recruitment agent and I'm going to take this kid and take a percentage if I take them to these colleges to go introduce them to here and here and here and like, oh, well, he's not going to visit

this school because this school gave him 10,000. Like I could already see people who try to one up and make that a business in itself just to make money out of those kids who are just trying to figure it out because they don't even know what could be. I hope that's not going on, but you just never know. That's always been the thing.

Really? Yeah, they're called boosters. Correct. That's always existed. It's just now it's legal. Yeah, every time you win somewhere, it's like, hey, man, you want to go to the school, man,

for $7,000, I can make it happen. That's the whole thing. It's something to open now. And think about this, right? And I think this was after Mo at Ohio State. These kids didn't have any money, right? They sold their jersey to get their mother. Mothers they give more, was it?

Or at the barberset. Tattoos. Get tattoos, right? And the coach got fired and the kids got kicked out of school for $130. Tattoes. $130 for selling their jersey. or whatever it was, and that was taking money, $130.

And then the coach end up getting, if I was it, Trussel? Trussel, yeah. Yeah, I know more history, Nick. You know what I'm saying? End up getting fired because kids were trying to just make some money because they didn't have any money for their jersey.

Like, you sit there and talk about it, like, Stap, we don't really know your college experience, but you talk about it. May said he had to walk, he would have to walk 10 miles from the gap to get home. You know, I kept going to that mailbox, and my mom and grandmother kept lying to me saying, that money ain't get there yet. I don't know what's going on with the mail.

Anybody else's mail coming. I keep on a mailbox. So you know when you ain't got no money, you know what that means? You can't miss a meal at the cafeteria. You got to make sure you make it on time for breakfast. That means you got to make sure you make it on time for lunch. You got to make sure you're on time for dinner. Because you don't have no money for pizza.

late night or hamburger or anything else. So I'm like I said, I'm not mad at these niggas because like I said, it's kind of payback for what been going on, but it's still a little, there's still no rules of regulations. They make it shit up as they go along as well. Yeah, that is crazy. And I know I give little tidbits of my college experience, but I think definitely attending Miami was the first time I've seen money on a different level just because the kids that attended there. It was just everybody was super set and that was just something that I've never seen

before, especially that type of money. It wasn't just like, said like from their parents. Yes. Like getting like it was like kids were getting monthly allowances. They as part of their allowance they were getting yacht money to take trips in spring break to bimini. Like it was a very different experience which I mean most of the black kids there because there wasn't a lot of us. We were on scholarship. And I'm like what do you mean you guys are paying this money out of pocket like 70k a year like and it was like light work and they're like yeah like my parents just paid the oh my what you mean your parents pay the bill like every single so to me that was an insane different type of experience made made me realize like especially coming from tampa I'm like the world is way bigger than what I

realized and Miami was that reality mark and then the athletes are getting all that money too like it was it was crazy very very crazy okay so Michigan player yaxel like Londonberg said Kentucky offered, on the topic of money, offered him $7 to $9 million for him to transfer. So he said they were pretty much going off on the route like, we'll pay him anything to get here. I was raised without it and I went my whole life without it in reference to money. He said, anything was going to make me super, super happy at the time. I was thinking long term, what if I messed up my career because I chased the money instead of a future?

Another big reason why I went with Michigan was he didn't talk about money at all. It was all about making me better and helping me achieve my goals. So Maurice, hearing that quote from the Axel, if that was your kid or something that you knew, how would you advise him hearing those numbers and transferring and the decisions that he had to make? Yeah, the $4 million gap, that's a lot of money. And I was thinking to myself, like, you know, you could have hired you some life coaches or some mentors or something, you know, the other four million you could have got. And, you know, I don't know what the coach said to him to make him want to stay in Michigan for $4 million less.

Like I said, that's a lot of money. I'm not sure what development is going on there, but if it was my kid, I'm saying, you know, we're out of here. You know, if it was 400,000, we can, you know, and he was comfortable and you had a good team and all that stuff, and he was chasing something else cool. But for $4 million, you know, a $4 million difference, that's a lot of money.

And there's a lot that you can do if you know what to do with $4 million to set yourself up, you know, put some infrastructure in the end. Even if the NBA doesn't work out, at least you've made the most of your college career. So I would probably tell my kid to leave. What do you think, Kill? I'm gone. We're going to get that extra and extra $4 million.

Look, they don't love us. This life don't love us. So everybody's, like I said, you're going in the portal, and it was leaving Michigan to go where? To Kentucky. Yeah, it ain't like it's Ohio State. It ain't like it's the rivalry or rivalry. So, you know, you may feel it, pause if you're going to a rivalry school.

But the one thing that he did say, right, is that you all think about this coming from his perspective. He said his whole life he went without having money. So the extra $4, $5 million is not going to make or break him. So he's content with what he has now because he's saying he never had money before. So I'm assuming that he made $4 million his first year, that he was in. Michigan if we're doing math correctly. I'm agreeing with Moe, like, you know what I'm saying? I am one of them people that say, oh, money isn't good money,

but it isn't like these schools are loyal to you. You know what I'm saying? They're using you to help them get recognition, not only get recognition, help them win a national championship. And Michigan is another school that we talk that we could talk about if you know your history, where Jalen Rose and,

Chris Weber when they had to five five, they took a couple dollars. And then they banned their banners, they took down for them trying to get some money and put money in their pocket. They bought sneakers and so on and so forth. And Michigan said, and the NCAA too, but Michigan doubled down on it like, nah, y'all can't be taking $4,000. Even though they're selling Chris Weber jerseys, Jalen Rose jerseys, Jimmy Jackson jerseys, even though when you go to the video,

and your Sega Genesis and you're playing the college game is Chris Weber likeness, Jalen Rose likeness, all this shit people are making money off you, but you can't make money off yourself? I don't know, but, you know, I'm going to veered off topic a little bit, but I'm going to agree with more. I have to take the extra because this is the thing, right? If you, we don't know, I'm saying we, like I'm still an athlete. As an athlete, you don't know when you're going to get hurt.

And God forbid that you stay healthy for a long time. to have a long career, but, you know, me and Larry were talking about it one day, and playing football is like getting into a car accident every week. That's what Larry equated to. And Mo, you know better than anybody. So you're literally going to get in a car crash every week, and you don't know where that's going to lead. Now you're young, you have time, you think your future's bright,

and I hope it is. I'm talking about all you young athletes. But get as much as you can why you can get it, because you just don't know in a sport like that. Mason. Yeah, I really, I really think that if you could give four million more dollars, he got to go get the four, especially it's like leaving Michigan to Kentucky for basketball, right? This is, that's even more, that's a better program. So it's like you're going to a better program and you're getting more money, which is going to put more eyeballs on you when it comes

to playing the sport. This is a hands down, yes. This is not even something to consider even going back to Michigan, I wouldn't understand why. And Michigan, you should think about this, right? You know, not just Chris Weber and you got Jalen Rowland, Jalen, Jalen Rosen, but what about Joanne Howard? You know what I'm saying? There's other people on that same team. You're selling all those guys' jerseys.

They couldn't get that four bands like Killer talked about. And now somebody showed up with $4 million more. I call it karma, man, whatever you want to call it. You got to pay people when you could pay them because now this looks crazy. I wonder how they're looking at this, looking back, like when Anderson hunting, all of them is watching this. It was getting paid at you in Arito. Oh, yeah.

But like May said, it wasn't legal. These niggas out in the open with it. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And this has made it to high school now. So this is crazy. Can you imagine that New York City killer you can get the NIL deal? You're in the PSAL.

I think some niggas might not, some niggas might have died. Yeah. Because they're like, now niggas ain't getting no money like that. You know, you're in 12, 10, 11th grade. You go to Carnu Hayes. They're like, yo, we're all getting 10 racks. Niggott, you're over there.

You got 11, honey, honey. Yeah, ice school in New York. That shit would have turned into a mess when we grew up. Yeah. And then, Mace, I know you're saying you don't even understand why he would say, but he did say, he said a big reason was the coach didn't talk about money at all is about making him better

and helping him achieve his goals and we had that conversation about the heart the heart doesn't win when was this what coach told him about he wanted to make him better Dusty May where he's at now Michigan in Michigan oh the coach wanted to made him better

yeah the money makes them better you know the money gets you better trainers you know better um striven conditioning Mo you you know this better than us right a better trainer costs more money man Yeah, what I'm telling you, he could have hired a better advisor. He could have hired a mentor.

He could have hired a life coach. You know, that $4 million spread, you could hire a whole staff to make you better. But it comes a time where you got to get out of like the kid phase. When you start making millions like this, you're an adult now. And so the coach actually took advantage and weighed on him with that childlike mentality. And, you know, there's no way in the world the coach would turn down $4 million extra. from another school. He would never do that,

but he advised against that, and that's where I have a problem with the whole deal. Okay. So will NIL kill football two? We will discuss after the break. She called his thing about toxic. Got you feeling like an option.

Maybe I'm my own problem, baby. She's tired of hearing out. What's happening in me won't fall. But she really thinking about it. I wish somebody to the agreement's let her win. And it's cool. Welcome back.

So we see that kids are now going to the NBA one year out of high school. I mean, this has been happening. But we see it helps superstar kids get paid faster. But a lot of people still argue it's killed college basketball. So Maurice, do you think NIL will eventually kill football? Or do you feel like football has good regulations, a good grass? Hold on. Hold on real quick.

Not off the topic. You could go from the high school to the NBA now? again? No, I thought it said college, even though I literally read high school. Okay, yeah, you got to do one year in college, right? Yeah, you're right. I'm just making sure they ain't changed the rules on me and shit. My brain read college, even though I said high school.

All right, cool. Now, I'm just making sure they ain't changed the rules and shit. No, they didn't, but good catch. But Maris, do you think this will eventually kill football? Yeah, I think this is what you call a slow depth. And when I look at it, I sort of looked at how, like, the running back position and the center position was like a slow death in basketball and football and you just start to see the beginning of the end uh i was uh actually talking to one of my home boys today and i said hey man could you name

uh like could you just name players off of uh teams in football two or three years ago uh who would have been national championship teams or ways that you would have been able to name players in the past before and he couldn't because so many kids have moved around and that's what happened with basketball where you it was an interesting thing at once and then once the rules change, it's sort of made it crazy. And the same things that, you know, Cam was talking about earlier, what kids moving around,

and the same thing that we were talking about probably at the first half of the show, those are the elements that kill basketball. I'm pretty sure there was things that, if you looked at the NBA and how the NBA came to where it's things that just kill what the mass majority of the public loves and likes to look at. And I don't think that, excuse me,

when you look at how Indiana won and you look at how St. John's is winning, and people going to recruit older players to basically assemble teams to then win, you're not going to have a bunch of people be around a brand long enough to allow them to, their fan bases to fall in love on them. So I think that NIL, unintended consequence is that the game will die. The game that we know, it'll still be football, but like fall in love with people and being there two, three, four, five years, like that version of football is just going to get killed off.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you on that. Because I think it's definitely going to kill the brand of football that we know when it comes to the SEC, when it comes to the ACC, all of those, the PAC 12, the big, I think is the Big 12 now. All of those particular divisions are going to really lose a lot of talent really fast, especially with people being able to jump in the portal, switch conferences. and they could play right away before you couldn't play right away. So you had to stay at the school. But it did give the coaches a lot of ability to take advantage of kids. So I'm with Cam on that part that it does allow these kids to have some more authority and some more power over their lives because some of them never get to live a life after

college football, right? So this is their NFL. This is where they can make some substantial. amount of money, but I do believe that the main thing that this is going to destroy is the progress, the progress of players. So I don't even think it's going to produce the same quality of person because you're taking a drive away. It was something about you working hard to get to the big stage to where now you're not even working to get to the big stage. So whatever you would turn around into being in year one or two in college,

It's like as far as mentally some of these players are going to get because they're working right into the NIL. They're working right into the NIR coming out of high school. So a lot of that development and a lot of that progress. If you get what I'm saying, Mo, it's going to be taking away. I get exactly what it's done. Because when you get to that sophomore year in college, that freshman year where you like, I got to turn up so I can make the pros, that's that extra ability that most athletes turn into

that makes them that star player even when it comes to the NBA or the NFL and now you're not going to have that with this in Iowa I just don't believe it just to be clear we're talking about football you're going to do one year and go to the NFL that's what's happening more

yeah oh shit they don't basketball I just make sure I'll just make sure I'm clear I don't know it depends right If you could get $9 million a year for four years in football of college, or maybe more. I remember, you know, Mo, you could talk about this because I know it was speculation that Ohio State was trying to offer Marvin Harrison Jr. 10 million to stay. Is that true?

Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Nah, niggas, don't know. I don't know about that. The first time I've never heard this out now. Hey. And all these years, we ain't never heard that man say you don't know. That's what I can't say.

I don't recall. All right. So let's say, for instance, you're good enough to make $9 million a year for four years, right? Which would be, what, $36 million for your college career. Let's just, I'm looking at in now. So I looked at the NFL scale for rookie contracts. The first, and I'll just do it by the tens, the first pick in the NFL draft for four years,

they're going to make $54 million. The 10th pick is going to make $29 million for four years. So right there alone, if you're getting $9 million a year for four years, you know, we'll do about three because you have to play one year. So you do nine million times three, $27,000, you're almost going to make what the 10th pick is getting. The 20th pick is going to make 19. $16,000.

So it's all about math and being smart as well, because you may make more in college than you may make in the NFL without the endorsements and we're just talking about salary. And it depends on how good you are. But to answer your question, Moe, I don't know if it kills the Mason Moe because it's niggas that,

look at the tip from, and I'm switching sports. AJ Baynes, I always mess his last name up for BYU. The Bancor. The bands are, right. He's talking about he wants staying and get an education. Yeah, right. Not saying you don't.

His mom wants you to. His mom wants to do. She's like, you better go. You know why his mom wants it? Because they're making sure she good. You think he getting that money and she didn't get a little bit? They moved the family out there, stat.

They're not from Utah. Yeah, black dudes don't go to BYU's staff. BYU never get the number one player in the country. You know what I'm saying? So at the end of the day, you could make money with endorsement. And then you can do it now in college.

So I don't know. I don't know. And, you know, when May said, I elaborated on previous shows to where, you know, this is your startup kid if you don't make it to the NFL. And of course, I'm just, I'm naming people who's definitely going to go to the NFL looking at this chart here. You know, you're going to go.

But at the same time, is your three years going to equal out if you're going to be, let's just say, if you're the 40th pick. Yeah. If you're the 40th pick, four years, $11, $12 million. You can make triple that in college. Yeah.

You know what I mean? So everybody's not going to be the first, second, third, fourth pick. We can talk about likeness as well, right? We talked about how, or not talked about it, we know for a fact, right? Archie Manning was the highest-played college player

as NIL is concerned, and then play a game. He was on the bench the whole season, not the season that just passed. I'm talking about when he first got there. He was a backer. But he was the highest page. So if they think you could sell the product likeness, of course, your last name being Manning doesn't hurt,

it's a lot of variables to go into this. So it may hurt the game, but it depends on how much financially you can make while you're in college as well. I actually... I'm asking a question. Yes. I go ahead, mate. Yeah, I actually like this mode because so many kids in the past didn't make the pros, right?

They came out of high school. We thought they were going to be something, and then something happened in college, and it doesn't pan out. So I look at this as really like football reparations, right? It's football reparations and basketball reparations. That's how I look at their NIs. They're just making up for all of the kids that did not get it. Just think about some of the guys that came out of college, I'm in high school, Mo, that was super talented, that was better than people. They blew their knee in college.

So this is a way to get the money and make sure your family as well. So you don't have to just come out of football and sell cars, right? Or do some kind of random job that you know you didn't want to do. But now you're a bodyguard. You get what I'm saying? This saves all of that. And you're running around with rappers and all of that. You're the muscle now.

Listen to me. So I get it. So I get it and I agree with both of y'all, right? But I asked myself when I was formulated, the question was, is, like, so you made a good point when you said that the struggle was what people makes people fall in love with shows, right? You go back to MTV, BET, when people, they talk. talk about people's journey, right? And how they get to where they had. That's what make you fall in love with them.

Or what ESPN was like, you know, dude grew up poor, moms was this, dad was that, or he wasn't there and then we fall in love with him, right? And then you put this other thing in the game and you take all of that away. Then it's sort of like we're not looking at that anymore. But I think that's kind of what happened to music, where you got the internet, you don't have the struggle, you don't have the story. And then who's ever marketed the best or whoever has the best business ends up becoming the biggest artist.

And I know it's not the same thing. I might be jumbling the words around a little bit. It's similar. You feel I'm coming from? Yeah. You can say guys are making money. That's cool. But do you lose the art, right?

The art of what you're doing and the story of getting there. And that's kind of how I look at what NIL is doing to sports in general. Yes, there's a lot of good. But then also, the thing that the viewers love that we've all fell in love was the struggle. That seems to be gone. So that's all I said. That's a good point. Wait, so how do you all feel about that in the music industry?

Just kind of like the lane and the path that's taken now, because obviously it's changed drastically. So, Mace, what's your opinion on that? Me, I understand it, but I hate it. You know, I do hate it. I'm a natural. I'm a classic. I'm like all of those things that throwback.

So pause, I hate it. Hey, man. I mean, just that's just where I. I stand with it. I think it takes a lot of the drive away. You get to mimic other people. You don't have to be original. You can kind of like copy and paste.

I hate it. That's that. So you get what I was trying to say. It's like copy and paste. Kim, what's your thoughts on that? And the exact, like, you said as far as the music. Yeah, basically, like, the route that's been taken because it's not, well, for some people, it's a long process, but for a lot of people, they're finding kind of segways to be able to make the money and get to the main stage. Like, how do you feel about the route that's been taken, especially by a younger artist now?

His box is mad at Jake Paul? Probably so. Yeah. Yeah. But I hate on Jake Paul. Yeah. That's how I think about it with me. You might hate, if you're a boxer, you hate Jake Paul.

But are you really mad at how he got to where he got and he manipulated it? I'm not going to use manipulative. He's supposed to fight tank. Then he fights Anthony Joshua. Then he fights Anderson Silver. You fight in these kids. You got niggas coming to your world. And they're making them more money than they were making their world.

So you can't even get mad at Jake Paul. And the same thing, as far as rap is concerned. You don't have to like it, but to me, I respect it. It ain't our fault that on our birth certificate. We didn't come out the same time as Instagram or we didn't come out the same time as Twitter, a snap. We had to work with the resources that we had, and we did the best with what we had.

So now if somebody could go do a TikTok dance and go platinum, we don't like it. Oh, suck-ass TikTok nigger, pitch-ass Nick. You know, I said, nigger can never stand on the corner with us, killer. you know that nigga couldn't stand on the corner with us. He doesn't have to. Yeah.

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. How are you mad at his birth certificate? Why are you mad at him? So I get when niggas be like, yo, I don't like it. Not to my mom, I'm just people in general would be like, but how are you mad at them niggas using the resources that they can use, right? Like Mace just say he don't like it, right?

Mace, I don't like you on garage band, singing. I don't like you singing Jodicy over on garage band. What kind of shit is that? I do, I'm saying, I do like it. But what if I said that? Yeah, you're right. You get what I'm saying? You can't get mad at the technology that's given to you

that's laid before you because you didn't have it. You have to make the best with what was due. So to me, it may not be my cup of tea, but I'm not going to hate on it. That's what I say. It's not really for me, but how am I hate on? with niggas using the technology they got at their advantage. Yeah, I think, I think my point was kind of large. I'm not saying I hate what they're doing.

I hate the system that people put in place to kind of hide the talent that really exists. That's what I'm saying. So for me, I wouldn't be upset with Jake Paul making hundreds of millions. I would be upset if niggas is trying to hide a Terrence Crawford for Jake Paul. what I'm saying, that's more so what I'm talking about. Yeah. Not the system because what killer said, I'm for using all of the new ways, but don't try to shun the people who are really gifted to try to only push something

that's your personal agenda. That's what I'm mainly talking about. That's fair. Because, yeah, Jake Paul need to get all the money you get, and that's their business. They don't got their business together. Yeah. I have one more question before we move on because I'm just, like, my brain is the, gears are turning. So when you guys were promoting like music or like events or like what was

that process like because obviously people just go on. I'm not even trying to be funny when I ask this because obviously people go on TikTok like a viral moment but what would y'all do? Like what was like the main thing that y'all did? Like you're laughing but I'm so serious. You had you had to have a southeast region support. You had to have a northern region support. and you would go from city to city promoting yourself. Like, I would have to get in a van to go from North Carolina to D.C. to Virginia to Boston to Philadelphia, to New York. Then take a plane across to Chicago, then hit Detroit, then drive to New Orleans. And every day you would do the morning show and then drive to the next city.

So imagine being in a little minivan, you and six of your close associates, and every day you're going from every single place, just saying, hey. And this only radio he's talking about doing it. And this is only radio. Just, hey, my name is Mace, yo, thank you for this. Yo, you're listening to the live station da-da-di-di-di. You're reading up all of these things. You got a shout out every DJ.

You got a shout out every DJ and get their take right. And they'd be like, nah, Mace, I don't like that one. man, put some more, put the same energy you gave DJ Turtle Ski, man. Do the same thing you did. You'd be there a hard day. And then from there, you had to go to their party that night. And then all this was free. Yeah.

For me, it was free. And then you had to go to the hospital. You had to sign stuff. And then you had to go through the jails, the juvenile detention center, talk to the kids. And that's how you built. That's how I built Mace from C. city to city.

Wow. And then also... And go to the hair salon and say hi to the ladies. And what Mace is not telling you is... And it's funny because I've seen this on social media every day. And it wasn't part of my street team, but shout Jay Black. You had to have a street team. So when you say TikTok style or subject, it was literally people putting posters on the highway,

like with staples. Yeah. And you put it like, so when you're driving down the highway, let's say you're driving down Las Vegas Boulevard, you just see mad posters on every light post. And you had a street team when we were through it. And they used to turn into competition record labels against other, like in record labels on fire escapes. Yeah, who could go crazy.

Who could go the highest and staple your album, this and third. And that's how you created visual awareness on your project was coming out because that was a street team. So imagine like you say, now you just look at your phone, get alert. Imagine niggins out at three in the morning. out at three in the morning stapling, stapling posters on the 215 out here.

The whole highway of the 215 or the 15, or the 15, that you stapling posters to the whole highway. So that's the way you would get visual awareness. And then Mace just made a great point. Your first tour, you go out, it's for free. You don't get paid. It's a promo tour.

So they be like, yo, go on promo tour to promote your music, go out. Everywhere. Right. But Mace's first promo tour, people was getting paid, and he wasn't. So that's what I started. That's what started. His promo tour was a big...

My promo tour was a world tour. It was a world tour. He didn't understand it until later. And then he said, motherfucker up. Mace scored on early, though. That's the way other people who didn't. Yeah. And shout out to Baby Wise, right?

He was one of the... the market of MVP's in the winter he would just have his shirt off just waving the bad boy flag when the when the music was coming out he'd just be on top of people car just jump on anybody's car and just waving the bad boy flag and that's what made bad boy like really hot because he was he was that wow for a bad boy wow see i never even knew that when i asked these questions they're like genuine questions because it's so different like not only that you guys actually had to be able to communicate with people I feel like a lot of people nowadays don't really know public interactions because they don't really have to. And you can zoom in and like not really show your personality.

And I think that helps me understand you guys' mindset more and more because then when you see college kids who can get paid before even stepping up on a campus and get paid 15K, meanwhile, you're on a tour, on a bus going cross country just to get people to like be locked in that you're going on tour. A van. A van. A man, a minivan. A mini van. The minivan. The minivan. You know the van that you, the soccer van.

Yeah. A minivan. A sliding doors. Sliding doors and all that. And you got to go through the colleges too and promote that to colleges, college radio. Colleges will be fun now. Yeah. That's a lot.

But now I get it. Like this is the contents. I'm like, oh, I see, I see. Makes a lot of sense. That's a cool story, though. Okay, well, on to the money conversation still. They're going to continue. So when a college kid is.

is paid millions and underperforms, Maurice. Do you think the fans have the right to overly criticize and kind of treat them as if they're the CEO? Or do you think that people are supposed to have a little bit more slack because it's college and they are owed that money? What's your opinion on that? No, we've moved out of that bucket of giving kids grace.

I don't even going to call them kids anymore. That is out of there. We can't straddle the fence with, you know, I'm a kid when it's convenient. and then I'm an adult, whatever that shit, you know. And I hope this conversation helps somebody. I hope people clip this and they share it with these kids.

I want to call them kids these young adults. You know, I hope that they actually share it with them because I think part of this is having people to grow up. And if you want to be treated like an adult and get paid like an adult, and when you go to negotiate, you're negotiating as an adult. You have to have the right for people to hold you accountable

for the resources that you're giving. because there was people like me and other people who couldn't receive them. So I don't believe in any mercy. I believe in if you're underperforming, people have the right to voice their opinion because they paid. And this isn't free for anybody anymore. So the answer is no. Yeah, I like that, Ma. I'm glad you came back home, man.

Because, you know, it's gotten soft around here. Pause, you know. This is a stern show, you know. This is a guy's guy, pause. You know, this is where you go to hear the truth. This is not for thin-skinned people, you know. This is a, how do they say it? You know, this is where you come to get the truth when you want the truth.

So if you're lit on it is what it is, you'll lit anywhere in the world. Because we're going to tell you exactly what it is. And I like the way you said young adults, because when they get the money, they're now young adults. You're not a kid anymore. And we should be able to judge you like a young adult. though, I think they could boo them if the type of money they're getting paid. They should be held to the same standard as a pro if you're going to take the pro money. If you don't want to take the responsibility, don't take the money.

It's a tough answer. I'm in between pause. I feel the same way you and Maceville more. But at the same time, I'm like, that's on recruitment. You shouldn't know who you were scouting. Should have been able to, that's to me more on the scout. You know, because you got to think about it, you got to be a scout. Then after the scout, you got to convince the coach.

Then you got convinced the boosters and the eighth athletic director, then the boosters, to where get trust is in the person that's going to get the kid. So the kid, of course, I feel what you guys are saying, like, you know, he underperformed. He didn't do this and the third. But now I got to look at who I'm sending niggas in the field to go get because that means you may not be good at scout and talent. And I just spent six million on this little nigger this year. I'm caught in the middle because, look, kids are still kids, and they're still 19 years old.

And I don't think the male brain develops to really, like, about maybe 24, 25, if that. If even that. Yeah, like, you know what I'm saying? I'm talking about maturity-wise. And especially if you're getting money at a young age. You know what I'm saying? Like a lot of people used to say, yo, you know, this is like a murder. man, why he leave, why he do this, that?

Are he fighting niggas on the hill at 33 times? I said, I say, yo, I say, yo, listen. Now, I'm talking about when I'm like 40 years old, people used to ask me. You know, this thing up there, fighting niggers on the hill. He left out, he did this, this, this, that. I say, yo, you try having a million dollars at 21 years old or 20 years old. I know a nigga right now that's 35 that if he out of 100, he loses mine, 100,000. He's 35 years old a day.

It's not easy. You're not fully developed as a man at 20, 21 years old. So I get one to throw them niggas in a blender force, but at the same time, what you want to do? That nudge, that's a nigga still a boy, man. Let me ask you a question. So what's the threshold? What's the threshold?

See, that's another thing. This question varies so much because if you don't got guidance, neither. You're figuring it out on your own, right? So Mace made a good point on this show one time, a few weeks ago, right? And we was talking about one of his sons playing basketball. And he was saying basically that he was saying as a father, his son playing is his plan, meaning Mace's son's plan has to be Mace's plan

until you tell me what your plan is. And then basically when you tell me what your plan is, I'm going to support your plan. But if you don't have that guidance, you don't know what your plan is. That's real. You were just out here trying to figure out what I'm going to do. These niggas just told me that they, yo, if you got a shorty to booth,

28 grams, we could go to Albany and get rich. You know what I'm saying? Like the shit that you hear in the street. So when you say what's the threshold, you don't know what your environment is. And if you don't have any guidance and your first generation money, what is the threshold? You don't know.

This is the first time anybody in my family ever had this type of money. So I don't know that answer. See, me and Mo is coming from the same place. Mo, you is the first of the ones that had to go through all this. So you know niggins ain't cut you no slack. And I know they ain't cut me none.

So it's like, hey, brother, this is where we are. So go ahead. Go ahead. I was going to ask Cam, so do we use that with Zion? Right. So you know Zion. Right. Yeah.

That's a great example, right? Because you know who his agent is? His father. He's Asian. You look at John Moran. Who John Moran number one fan? It's father. So it ain't like it ain't niggas there.

I literally ain't. I mean, I have no father. You know what I'm saying? Like, not technical. Y'all, I beat my father up twice outside. My father's on drugs and shit. Try to tell me how to hold a baseball bat one time. Don't come around now that I'm 13

trying to tell me how to hold a bat. I ain't see you in nine years. I'm just trying to say so. When you say Zion, right, you got somebody who's there who's telling you, yo, you need to stop eating, man. And say the fuck out of the bitch his DMs, your foot already fucked up,

you're making us look crazy. Now, I know Michael Jordan gave us 100 million from Jumpman. We just renegotiated with the Pelicans. There's a lot of money over there for Zion. So you're right, when you're saying with his threshold,

we don't see year after year, we're talking about shit off the court more than on the court. And so I don't know where his threshold is, but it's up. Time is up. I'll tell you that. I tell you that the time is definitely up. So, yeah, that's what you're saying.

His time is up, nigga. Yeah. Wow. So when y'all are entering the industry, Maurice, you can answer this too. You guys, I'm like, are you guys in the greens that you guys felt like you weren't given grace, like to understand and figure things out? Like, you feel like you were going to the fire? It was no, definitely was no grace. That's what we were trying to speak of.

That's what I was alluding to when I was talking to more about this. And I get what killer is saying. But now he's saying that threshold is up for Zion. But I think the same age around Zion is most college players are right now, right? They start staying all these extra years in Miami and all these other schools. And maybe it's 26 and still in college. So that's around, that's who I'm speaking to, not the 19 year old, not the 18 year old. But there's people in college killer that they're 22, 24.

Come on, my nigga. You know better by now. That's why you stayed around and get the chicken. Right. So we got to owe you accountable. So when you say you and Moe, what are you, when am I being left out of here? I'm just trying to figure out what you're talking about. Because you had somebody to mess up before you.

Like, I messed up before you. I get what you say in an example. Yeah, yeah. We had no example. Bigel was my example. Right. I get what you saying. But to me, you ain't really messed up.

We had no answers. You kind of just left all of us. I had to still figure it out. You love us. So you got smart, seeing your situation and said, I'm out of here and broke out. But I get what you're saying, like, all right, you see what nicks fucked up,

especially with the record deal because you put me in a better situation and I always say thank you for that thing you was in. So I get what you saying. But at the same time, shit, I didn't know what to do with the money, neither. I started buying pink cars and Lamborghinis and shit and all the type. My chains had batteries in it and all the time.

I'm still one change, none of that shit. I'm just happy that I was able to have a longevity in my career. So, you know what I'm saying? But I said on the show before, murder, when we first get the money coming from where we come from, it's the stun on niggas from the neighborhood and get the bitches. Yeah. And I was very proud of you for getting.

in all the old high school bitches that used to shit on us. And I used to love when he walked out that barrel. Hey, Cam, no, bitch, get out. He's done. He's just called my jeans dirty. Peyo shit and up.

I'm not saying Mason that they were pegash. Look at him. You can't believe it. Y'all are funny. Wow, boys. You are. I guess you guys did have to learn.

I don't know. I feel bad for some. I can't say I feel bad because it's not the right term. But I do think you should give some people some grace because I know we're saying when they get to college in this age. But some of these guys have been living, and I'm going to say women too have been living kind of like a false reality until they got to college. So every year, you know, you're this star. You're getting this money. You don't really have to change much.

Like everybody's kind of just doing whatever you say. And then they get to the real world. it's like a shift that they were never going to be prepared for it. So I feel like a lot of people were kind of set up from the jump. Yeah. I think your first couple of years being a millionaire, you could get grades for like the first two. But after that, it's like, you know what's going on.

You need to see progress. I need to see you actually trying. But you know what? Just real quick too, right, Mace? Is that some people think that that income is going to steady come in when you're that young. Yeah. Right?

Not saying you or me. I'm just saying like, let's say you make your first $20, make your first million at 21, but you've been planning it since you were 15. Like, all right, cool, here it go. This is what I've been talking about. And you make it two, three years. You're like, all right. And then when you hit 24, the slope or the cliff happens,

and you're like, yo, I ain't make the mill this year. It's only $100,000 this year. So that's what I'm saying. That's what I said, you got to budget your money. And it's just, you know, when I say this generation, is good to, you know, every nigga I fuck with, every nigga. We only fuck with deadbeats.

Every nigga that I knows the dad takes care of their kids. Like, if you don't take care of your kids, we don't fuck with you. Because we ain't really have nobody taking care of us. You know, even though if you had a male figure in the house, we looked up more of the people outside than the person that may have been in your house so that everybody that I know what a kid is in their child's life heavy

or their children's life heavy because you didn't have that and you don't want them to go down the same path that you went through, even though a lot of that shit ain't available no more. Direct consumer hand-to-hand shit. Because now they live in the gated communities, the condos, or, man, there was a fire in my building.

You know what a fire escape is? Yeah. What is it? You leave through the stairs and go down to get out, right? Forget it. The way you described this stuff. I've actually never seen a, like, a,

like not like a like a fire that wasn't man made before like I've never just like stairs outside of your building outside of your window but it's outside of your window it's outside your window it's almost like a balcony some people use it for a balcony in the summertime

outside your so you would have to be up like you'd have to be above ground I've never lived above ground right now I'm just saying if I'm not knock you I do know I tease you but I'm saying it's literally like if you live in seven four eight floor building it's a it's like stairs outside of your window in case it's a fire.

Yeah. In the building, you could go out through that. See, and I've only seen that once in New York because our Florida houses aren't built like that. Right. So I'm like, I wouldn't even see a fire escape because why? I had to leave our building through that for a fire. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I get it. I'm not knocking you for it. No, it's funny. It's not. It's not. It's not dope. It's scary.

No, it's not. Yeah, it's not. You know what I'm saying? That shit is not a good experience. You know what I'm saying? I still got, I smell smoke. I just start looking around, make sure of my surroundings.

Like that shit is traumatizing. Well, you're safe. Well, you're safe now. Oh, that's all my God. Oh, you sound. You sound so Caucasian. You're safe. That's what's important.

We're good. That's important, guys. Dang. In the comments, let us know the threshold to give a college player, Grace. But that is all the time that we have for today. Maurice, you know, it's always a pleasure to have you on the show. Well, good talking to you, ma'am. Appreciate you, Mo, good seeing you, brother.

All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for watching. And as always, it is what it is.