I've Had It - You’ve Got to Be Culting Me with Sarah Edmondson

Episode Date: February 28, 2023

Jennifer and Pumps are joined by Sarah Edmondson, former member-turned-whistleblower of NXIVM, featured on HBO's The Vow and the co-host of A Little Bit Culty. It's decided that Pumps is the ideal candidate for cult recruitment and Jennifer may or may not already be in one.  Subscribe to our Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/IveHadItPodcast Follow Us: I've Had It Podcast: @Ivehaditpodcast Jennifer Welch: @mizzwelch Angie "Pumps" Sullivan: @pumpspumpspumps Special Guest: Sarah Edmondson: @sarahedmondson Check Out: A Little Bit Culty on Apple Podcasts

So we supposed to start the podcast. Pumps, what have you had it with this week? I have had it with my kids' cell phones constantly digging, like vibrating. Like we sit down to watch a movie and we're in the middle of a vibration, like an earthquake of everybody's phone, like, bzz, bzz, bzz, and everybody's phone, like,

and it's all that fucking snapchat. I don't understand. And they're wondering why ADD is on the rise. Well, it's because these second phones go off every 10 seconds or one second. It's unbelievable. Have you, do your kids do this thing where all of a sudden they're like on their phone, then all of a sudden you see them hold the phone up and they're like, it's like they have a snap chat streak with somebody.

And so they have to keep the streak going in. They send these horrible selfies. Horrible, like you would never want to be cut dead in these selfies and they're sending them out to hundreds of people. Yes, but when I would take Emily's phone away, it would be like, mom, I have got to continue. My snap streak.

I mean, it's been 947 days. I'm like, well, then you shouldn't have whatever you did. I don't think, aside from my dogs and then the kids, there's anybody I want to be involved in that long of a streak with. Wait, no, no, we do have a word or group. Right, but that's not constantly bug buzzing. And it's only once a day.

That's right, it does once a day. Yeah. No, it's just too much constant on the phone, on the phone, on the phone. But it's, I mean, that's not going to change. You know, I don't think they talk on the phone. Oh, no, I remember not too long ago, my oldest couldn't order a pizza by phone.

I mean, it was like I was watching somebody that had been trapped in a whole his entire life because ordering a pizza, the communication that was required to just place the pepperoni pizza order was overwhelming. Do you remember like back in the day in the 80s, the landline days where we would have like at my house, we had a

home phone number. Right. And then there was a teenagers line. Yes, I remember this. I was never allowed to get one, but I wanted one. I had one. I had super cool people had their own line. Well, I mean, no surprise anymore. Yes, surprise. I had my own teenagers line. And I remember the number. Oh, you did. That's very impressive. Yes. I do think the one thing about a cell phone that has taken a lot away from the rest of the world, the younger generation is prank calling. Like, prank calling was a blast. Prank calling was so much fun.

And when caller ID came out, it was throwing a grenade. Right, you can't prank call anymore, you're best at it. It was so much fun. My mother was a prolific prank caller. Really? Yeah, Linda has prank called me before. Yes, yes. And so she would get in on it.

No, prank calling was so much fun. Yeah, no, it was the best. And that's just been taken away. They have no idea how fun it would be to prank call people. No, no, I'm with you on the phones. I mean, I like my phone. I like to look at Instagram. I like to read the news. I like to do Wordal. But everybody being able to contact you all the time really irritates me because I'll have clients that will

start texting me at like 7 a.m. and I'm like, this is like my time. Like I can gear up for all every. I'll say that you have with me or every paint color you want to talk about starting at 8 a.m. I'm all yours, but when you start texting and they're like, oh, no, you can respond when you want to. I'm like, no, here's the problem. You sent to me at seven. So it's already in my head. So you completely removed me from my Jennifer time for my serenity time.

You know, I have a lot of things I do with the dogs in the morning. We get their eye boogers out. We do scratching so that they can approach. They can have a soft landing to their morning. You know? I mean, an eye booger free soft landing. Exactly. You know, Frenchies can get little eye boogers.

It's important to keep all of that very clean on your dogs. Do you do get your dogs eye boogers? I don't think he has eye boogers. I mean, I clean on your dogs. Do you do get your dog's eye boogers? I don't think he has eye boogers. I mean, I noticed in your dog. Yeah, yeah. But now I have a net is prolific eye boogers on my face. But I think what you just told me last night, when you walk your dog, you wait a day.

Oh my God, that happened one time, one, because I just didn't have it in me. Let's let the listener know what I was about to say. I can't believe you are bringing this up. Oh my God. You're the worst. So I listened to her pumps. She was walking her dog, which is like a wolf,

I'm like a Siberian husky type dog. And he took a shit. Right. And she did not immediately pick it up because with the baggie, because it was gonna be too warm. Yeah, it just kind of grosses me out when it's so warm. She claims that she let it sit overnight, a full 24 hours, went back once it was hardened and removed the poop then. But here's what you did.

You left that out for multiple people could have stepped in that. No, because it's between the street, and then there's a little leaf of grass, and then there's the sidewalk. So there would be no reason for you to be, you're not on pavement. Well, I think some people might like to walk on grass, and they have to walk by and see it.

I think you have to be an immediate pooper scooper. It's an immediate, and I normally do. My dogs have had very unattractive bowel movements. And I try to do everything I can do. I've seen you went to Chacha's ass to come in on more than one occasion. Dog hygiene is important. Right, luckily I've seen a lot of people.

I've seen a lot of people. Drined hygiene is important. Right, I did go back. I just thought, I see was sitting there, I mean, he's 93 pounds, so it's like a human poop. It's so big. I think you need to be. And I just thought, I can't It's so big. I think you need to be a better pet owner. That has nothing to do with being a pet owner.

Do you want to hear what I've had it with? Not really, but go ahead. That's the name of our podcast, you're gonna... I know, but you're being so rude. You're gonna have to... About my dog habits. You're gonna have to indulge me. Let's move on.

Okay. I do, for the record, for the permanent record, I do think you could be a better dog owner, but we'll get onto that another date. I just want the last word. OK, but I just want to tell you, you treat your dogs like a human. So there's no way that a normal person that treats

their dog like a dog is ever going to meet your human dog standards. I take offense to that. OK, good. Because I treat my dogs better than I treat humans. Okay. Okay. That treating an animal like a human is just the bare minimum.

Okay. I treat my dogs a million times better than I treat human beings. That's true. Okay. Okay. So, Jennifer, what have you had it with? Thank you for asking. You're welcome.

Pumps. So, I have had it with. Thank you for asking. You're welcome. Pumps. So I have had it with on Instagram. So we, if you listen or if you don't follow us on Instagram, Pumps will swing by the office and we sit on the sofa in my lobby and we do, we read hate comments. And there's this fabulous photograph behind us on the wall that my husband took and when while we were traveling Italy. And it's like these Italian boys probably ranging from 22 down to maybe 10 or so, hanging out on the beach. And it's one of my favorite images.

I have it blown up in my house. I have it blown up in the office. Every time I see it, I think how cool it is that probably generations of these families have swam at the beach and hung out at this particular beach. That's all I've ever thought about it. Right. So we're doing these, you know, we're reading these hate comments, which you and I get a big kick out of. Right. And so Morgan, who works in the office, tells me, yeah, people keep commenting on the photograph

behind you. And I'm like, oh, they like it. Yeah, they love it. No. It's these Q&A honors. And they, the suggestion is that it's some type of kitty porn. And it just amazes me how much when, when people see an image that that's where their head goes. Because there's nothing sexual about it at all. No, not at all. I mean, they're like, Motely, it's not even remotely sexual.

There is pedophilia and there are documented cases. And it is horrible and everybody opposes it. Right. Nobody stands is pedophilia and there are documented cases and it is horrible and everybody opposes it. Right. Nobody stands for pedophilia. Right. Everybody opposes pedophilia. We're all united on that front. But there are people out there that think that there is this like, you know, huge movement where everybody's eating babies, and there's large percentages of people that believe this, and it really, really fascinates me a lot. And so, I think you're going to be super excited about our guest today. Okay. So you watched the vowel, loved it. Okay, listen, or the vowel on HBO follows the next-sem cult. And there's two seasons.

And Pumps and I were completely obsessed with it. Obsessed. One of the former cult members, Sara Edminson, and that the documentary follows, and she's out of the cult, and she's courageous, and she's a survivor, and she was a whistleblower, and she has a podcast called A Little Bit Coltty. She is going to join us today

as we deep dive into Colts because we've had it, had it with Colts. Scientology, had it, QAnon, had it, had it, Pickleball, had it. Oh. Okay, all right, see where this is going. But without further ado, let's see if we can get Sarah on here.

Sarah, how are you? I have a little bit of a cold, but other than that, I'm great and really excited to be here. Thanks for having me. We're so excited you're here, especially me. I am like the biggest Sarah Edmondson fan on the planet. I want you to be my best friend when we hang up. I want us to like text every day. I want to come visit you. I mean, I really, I really am excited that you're here. Thanks so much. Thanks so much. It turns out we actually have a mutual friend that I didn't know until I was researching that Kate Casey is a mutual friend. Yeah. Yeah. She was, I love Kate Casey. She's fantastic.

She's amazing. We travel in a similar cult circuit on the podcast world. So I said the same thing to her. I want to be your best friend, and then we'll have a bad person. Well, Sarah, before you joined us, we were talking about QAnon. The problem with QAnon, and truthfully, we haven't personally done a deep dive yet, mostly because we interview survivors.

Right. And not a lot of people have, some people have come out of it, but when they do, they tend to kind of run for the hills, because they're so embarrassed as many people are when they realize that they've been in a cult. So we haven't found anyone to interview, and we haven't really figured out what that process is, but what we do know is that people are, you know, especially in the time of COVID and the pandemic and people are very isolated and feeling lonely and they started to research, you know, if they're feeling uncomfortable with what's happening in the world and lots of crazy stuff's happening.

And then they seem to have found an answer, right? And they feel also that they've found a community. Right. So in the midst of loneliness and being like, WTF is happening with our world and pandemic and we're all alone with the word mask, like what's going on? Right. Or whatever it is that's fueling their searching desire. And next thing you know, they feel like they found

a group of people and then that information because they're so isolated and in any extreme, anything, any religion, whether it's from QAnon to a yoga call to an extreme religious, off sheet of any sect. Right. They feel like they found answers and they feel like they found belonging, which is, I mean, it's very normal for anybody, whether it's a pickleball group or a... Have they been prepping you for this? Have you all been talking to her behind my back?

I just did a little bit of research. She's just prepared. Okay. I'm willing to take a look. I'm willing to take a deep dive in that on this episode. I do think that we should. And I want to expose something that I think she is culty about too. Well listen, this is what I've learned in my journey

is that everyone who says to me, well you know I'm so glad you got out and that sounds crazy and good for you and you're so brave whenever. But I would never fall for it. And then they continue to tell me something they're a part of. I'm like, that's totally right. Totally.

I think the automatic response is, oh, well, that can never happen to me. And it's like, it happens every single day. Right. Yeah. They don't start out like horrible. It's, I'm a divorce attorney. So I see a lot of inter family domestic abuse, not necessarily physical, but emotional. And they don't, it didn't start out that way.

They started out being loved and felt worthy and all of these things. And then it switches and you're so far in, you don't know how to get out. I mean, it's really sad. Well, and I think the love bombing plays a huge component of that where you get love bombed and that's amazing. And I think the brain, you know, when they scan it,

when that's happening, it's a similar reaction of being on drugs. And so you're seeking this high, and everybody likes to hear how great they are. Except for how screwed up we are, that we like to read our hate comments, which is another episode entirely, we're gonna dive into emotional SNM.

But I do think what's interesting about the QAnon is I was watching the news, and this is probably like a year ago, and they have this meeting at the JFK assassination site. And they are all certain that either JFK or JFK junior both are gonna show up, and it's going to be Donald Trump's running mate. And so I thought, you know, that maybe two people would show up.

There's like 500 people in Dallas at the assassination site of John F. Kennedy. And here's my problem with it. Number one, everybody knows both of these people are dead, okay? But did they not get the memo or taken history that these people were Democrats? That's what I couldn't figure out. So I think one thing, I want, where does like rational thought suspend?

Does it happen slowly? With all the cults and groups that we've examined, it does happen slowly and every step is a lift. So like if they had said to me, hey, do you want to join this personal development group and then you're gonna have the leaders initial seared into your groin? Right. I would have been like, no.

No. So it starts with a personal development program that's really positive and really supportive and then it's a further commitment to my growth through becoming a coach and so forth. There's different steps along the way. 12 years later, right? So I think we've been on, there's probably things that are very reasonable and very much

reality-based at first. Right. And if you accept certain things, you have to, and you agree that there's truth to those things and you're part of this community and your siloed in the information that you get. Those things start to make more and more sense and you're not having anybody on the outside question it, which is Q and on or any group. You're isolated from the outside world.

There's nobody saying, well, what about this or what about that? And like, you know, even, there's no part. Outsideers are diminished and demeaned, right? And labeled as, you know, the enemy or suppressors or we've watched, we watched the vow that you were on and then we've watched some of the Scientology stuff. And I do think because I was not raised with any religion at all,

like, which is really weird, because I was raised in the Bible belt. And everybody is super religious, but my mother is not religious at all. So I was not indoctrinated in any religion. So my default setting is an extraordinary claim requires extraordinary evidence. However, I do see how you can be, because you can be in a relationship or a group of people, and you start to feel a sense of belonging.

And that feels good. We crave that as people. relationship or a group of people and you start to feel a sense of belonging and That feels good. We crave that as people we crave, you know togetherness and connectedness and I can see how the building blocks can Raise, you know get more and more intense. I remember this woman in Georgia and she's like suburban Carpool mom, right? So she goes down the Q&N on rabbit hole. And then she goes to Target during COVID. And she goes ape shit bananas. And starts screaming about masks and throwing stuff over. And she's just going bonkers. Of course, everybody gets their phones out. It goes viral. She goes totally bat shit crazy. She gets arrested, obviously. And then she goes totally batshit crazy, she gets arrested obviously. And then she kind of gets deprogrammed and I saw her on like 2020 or something after this.

And she explained how, you know, there was paranoia wrapped into her indoctrination of this too, like that Bill Gates is putting some sort of microchip in the vaccine to follow us everywhere we go. And I think it's just kind of fascinating that you can have somebody that is running carpool, going to Starbucks, going to exercise class. And then, a few months later, is going bat shit crazy and target. There seems to be particularly with QAnon

a rage associated with it, that these there seems to be particularly with QAnon a rage associated with it that these people seem to be so angry at anybody outside. Right. Well, the things that things that they taught and QAnon were true, I'd be mad also. Yeah, it's a good point. I'd be furious too. So that's the thing, like if what we were doing, what we thought we were doing was true in terms of changing the world and building humanity, then X-E would have been a great group. Right. Right.

And if you haven't looked at Teal Swan, who's a woman that we haven't had her on because I think she's a cult leader, but we've had her, do you know about her? I know exactly. I watched the whole documentary, yes. Right. So with her, it's interesting because people, she's, her team has figured out SEO and the algorithm so that when people are feeling low or suicidal and they type in suicide, she pops up as like a person who can help and then they're hooked in with her.

Wow. Wow. So that's where, that's where cults in these groups are more dangerous. I think at the same time Because of things like the vow and all these documentaries about cults and podcasts and all this awareness People are also a little bit more aware like I don't think people are joining Scientology these days right right Because there's so much out there whereas at the same at the same time There's people joining these online communities

So it might be I don't have the stats about what's actually happening. What are the red flags that you find that are similar in almost all colds? Well, in terms of those steps, there's almost always love bombing, whether it's a person or a group or whatever you're finding yourself in, where you feel really special, you feel really loved. Not to say that feeling loved and special and appreciated is, you're in a cult, because it could be people with good intentions. I think the isolation, if you're being asked

to sort of separate from your family and friends and starting to feel like you have found the answer, anyone is claiming to say that they have the way or the only way or the path or all the answers, that's a huge red flag right now. Yeah, that makes sense. If you're in a group where you can't say like, wait, that doesn't feel right to me or

that, I think that's BS or whatever, and without getting in trouble or shunned or cut off from the group, not being able to question is a major problem. Right. And that's, that's in all parts of, there's lots of things right now. I feel like you can't question, which makes me feel anxious. Same. I think you always have to have the free flow of information. And I think having curiosity or second guessing,

something, and then being able to ask and get an answer in a transparent way is paramount in business dealings and relationships. I think it's super important because I'm kind of a skeptic person by nature. My default setting is to be kind of skeptical of things. And so I always have a lot of questions if there's an extraordinary claim about something.

My instinct is, come on now. I mean, I'm always... That's good. Yeah. That probably protects you from a lot of things. Except for pickleball. I was your that's your goal. And my dogs. I on the other hand, I'm so goalable. Like, I believe everything anyone tells me. Yes. I mean, if there's a lying liar who lies a lot, I'm your girl, because I'm just like, oh, okay, I don't question.

I just go with the flow. So over the course of 20 years, thank goodness. She's helped me in that regard because I'll tell her to me. She's like, well, fuck, that's wrong. Like that's the dumbest thing. I'm like, oh, yeah, it makes sense when you say it out loud. Let me give you a prime example. So pumps about a year ago, goes on a date with this guy that lives in Houston, right? And she's like,

this is perfect. He lives in Houston. I live in Oklahoma City. I can see him once a month. This is great. Right. So this goes on for about six months. They see each other a few times. Well, a mutual friend of hers and the guy that she's dating sees an image of this man on Facebook. And there's a wedding ring on his hand. So she sends it to me. And I was like, he's married. You have been having an affair. And she's like, well, unbeknownst to me.

I'm like, still, the juice that you are having an affair, pumps, I can't get enough of this. So of course she calls and confronts him. OK. And here's what he tells her. He says, oh, I'm not really married. And I have been divorced for 10 years, but I haven't told my co-workers. So I wear the ring to work for the benefit of my co-workers, because I don't want to have to explain it to them. So she calls me

and pitches this to me. A hundred percent the way he sold it to her, she bought it, picks up the phone and calls to tell me and she even follows up with no. And I believe him and I was like, pumps, you have got to be kidding me. Right. And then it looks like a duck. What? It's like a duck. This guy is married.

Right. You are his mistress. Right. And the big dickover, dickover of the entire thing is she didn't get the Chanel bag. No, no, Mr. Shep was the mistress and she didn't get Jack. She except for this song.

But she bought it initially. Like 30 seconds, and then when you said you go, if somebody came to you and told him this story, what would you say? I remember that and I was like, you're right, 100%. Like I wouldn't believe it. A lot of people come to me and they're like, I'm in this group and I researched and there's all these claims,

but I went to the leader and they said that's just like a, you know, a woman who's an ex, like she was in love with the leader and she's a woman scorned or she just went crazy. Those are huge red flags. Totally. Like people, I never researched next year before I went into it. I only looked on day one and I was like, what's this? And they're like, well, it's, you know, it's a smear campaign, which I believed.

Right. Right. Because if you're doing good things in the world, of course, there's going to be haters. Right. So anything negative about next year, I didn't believe from that point on. But I always encourage people to research. And then if there's questions, don't go to the leadership, don't go to the bishop, go to people outside the group and find out what happened.

But always if the people respond to allegations as that person just went crazy, they weren't stable, or they're a lover scorned, when they're smoked, there's fire. Right. Now it's so fascinating because when we watch that, we didn't watch it together, but we were watching around the same time, and then we'd call each other because we talk on the phone all the time.

And she would call me, and what I think struck me is all of you are attractive, very engaging, very intelligent. Like people when I watched, I was like, I would like this person. Like people when I watched, I was like, I would like this person. Like when I saw you, I was like, I would really like her. And I think that goes to show how susceptible we all are to love bombing and a sense of belonging

and a sense of community and how this can gradually lead you to be a part of something that is bananas. But we digress because this podcast is about humor and about positivity and it's time for us to get back to that and we need to play some games with you. All right. Colt or not. Okay. Am I going to get sued? No. No. no, no. OK, adults that go to Disneyland without their children multiple times a year, post about it, multiple posts, AKA Disney adults. And they have groups that they talk in, meet in. And when I remind the listener and remind you Sarah,

they are going to Disneyland, Sans children. And for those of you that don't know what Sans is, it's French for without without. Without. I'm Canadian, so I'm sure you know. Oh, sure, no. Can I make a caveat before we play this game?

Yes. There's a spectrum of distractions. So like, there's things that call to do, and this is what we talk about in our podcast, a little bit culty. Some things are a little culty, and some things are full on cults. Right. Right.

They may use a couple things that a cult would use, but you can walk away from it. No one's going to shun you. Exactly. Like, culty, like your football club, I'd say Disney falls into this. Right. It's a little weird.

So leave the group. I don't know what happens because I've never been a Disney adult, but it's definitely strange and culty, but I don't know if it's a cult. OK, so a little bit culty. A little bit culty. A little bit culty. OK, I would agree with that assessment.

The next one are, so you're Canadian, but in the United States, particularly in the South, universities are really big with this Greek system, sororities. Okay. This one is iconic in her sorority house, allegedly. I'm die hard. And it was your call.

Oh, I mean, what was your sorority? Capacapa gamma. Right. For audience slip. Capacapa gamma. So here's the deal. She's in a sorority, no big deal. Here's what really grinds my gears, Sarah.

When her daughter Emily was born, okay? She did not have aspirations for Emily to be a CEO, a brain surgeon, a human rights activist. That never even entered her brain. From that moment, from utero, all the way now Emily's 20, her number one driving goal as a mother was to make Emily a Capacapa gamma.

Right, okay. Emily becomes a Capacapa gamma. We go to Mexico every year. And all Emily does on these trips, is she follows me around, because she knows it bugs the shit out of me and she's like be a cat by yes yes yes cat by cat by gammon she does all these tears around me all the time would you say that is a little bit Coltie maybe a Coltie or full blown Coltie

and be honest I'm not gonna say it's full blown Coltie because I think that there are some groups and some sororities that are better than others, but we actually did an episode on this. Believe the sorority was alpha. Do you say phi or phi? Alpha phi. Alpha phi with a little firecracker of a sorority whistleblower who believes that they're all bad and needs to be abolished. I don't know about that.

I don't, I don't, I think there are probably some groups better, but I think just the structure of these young women who have authority over these other young women and the way that they are meant to inform and all look alike and dress alike. It's a concern to me like at by was a mom after what I've been through. It wouldn aware of here's the thing, there's no structure in our world right now, no hierarchy that isn't immune to abuse as of power. Sure, right. That's what it is. So, like, Sarah, you're saying that when you're, when you're children were in utero, you weren't dreaming about them becoming a member of a sorority. I'm not saying anybody here on this episode has done so.

But I mean, I always think like I get it. Like, okay, I want, I was in this and I want my kid to be in this. But I mean, this was, I mean, there was a lot of premeditation. There was, right. There was, but what, I got out of there. They also have a secret hand shakes that they won't be. Everybody know about.

Coltie. Coltie. Coltie, yeah. Everybody know about. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty.

Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty.

Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Colty. Col And you want that for your daughter. Right. And so, you know, I have writer, die friends from Nexium. And we've been through a lot together and I wouldn't change that for anything.

I do think Pomspartik is in. I think it's actually a great example because it shows that there's always good in every all these groups. Yeah. Some people can go through it. Some people went through Nexium and they said, I had a great time. I learned how to do goals. I learned how to communicate.

It wasn't a sex call for me. Right. So that's true. And so I think you can have your experience and be happy that you didn't have a bad experience, pumps, and also still say, but there are problems with the system. And maybe there's a way to have it in a way that's safe

and to have like adults oversee it, but the way that I see it now, it's really unhealthy. Yeah. No, I would die on that cross. I really would. Okay, so we really want to be popular in Canada. And Canada is, they don't like us. So what can, I don't know that's good.

We don't get it. We're asking you, what can we do to bring on more Canadians? Do we just wreak of Americans? Is it our accents? I mean, definitely the accent, I think is. Do I have the accent or is it her? I have a terrible one. You both do.

Oh God, dammit. Yeah. Maybe one of you needs to go brunette. I don't know. Oh really? Oh my God. Oh my God. Well, you're way darker here than me. So that'd be you

Why are you sacrificing me? Because you're here by nature I don't know if I want okay before I forget you mentioned in an episode that you've had it with mega churches Oh, I have up to my eyeballs right and I want to make sure that you've watched the TV series righteous gemstones Yes over it every episode. For love as well. It is so good. Sarah, it is so good. Not acting anymore, but if I were to act,

it would be on that show. I'm just going to put it out there. No, it's so smart. It is so good. And it is so culty. I would say culty. Okay. It is so culty.

Sarah, I cannot thank you enough. I cannot believe it's like touch us because we watched the vow. And then here you are on our little podcast. And we cannot thank you enough for joining us. It has meant the world to us and I've enjoyed this so much. Yes. Thank you so much. Sarah, tell our listeners where to find you.

Yes. You can find my Instagram, Sarah Edminson, and a little bit called you. Both of those handles are on Instagram. I also have my own website, Sarah Edminson and a little bit called both of those handles are an Instagram I also have my own website Sarah Edminson.com and there's great resources on there if you feel like you might be in a cult or you need to recover from a cult You can get all sorts of therapy and and references there and your book scarred is on Heart-Copy digital and audiobooks correct. Yes, and I narrated the audible kind of cool, because you get to have my voice in your ear for nine hours. Excellent.

Sarah, thank you so much. Thanks, Sarah. Thanks for having me, dear ladies. Bye. Take care. Love, Sarah. Love her, and send it. Love her.

I think that this is something that you really need to take a look into is this cult activity of yours, and indoctrinating your daughter into it. Because we have, I mean, basically everybody in the room kind of felt it was culty, the expert. Yeah, I think that there's, I think that there's like panties in the initiation. I mean, I think there's some weird ass shit going on. And pumps, maybe you're just jealous.

Pumps has the, oh yeah. I'm just, that's what I wanna do is go hang out with 200 women at a time. I'm chomping at the bit to do it. It's my worst fucking nightmare. No, I know, but I just loved it. I mean, like, love, love, love, love, love, love. That's how people feel that are in cults.

They love it. Scientologists, you know what they do with their kids? They put them in a boat. They make them be Scientologists. Yeah, I'm glad I'm liais. Makes me so happy. That's, it's just culty. Yeah, culty.

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