Jack - A Giuliani-Level Butthole

Episode Date: October 21, 2019

This week on Mueller She Wrote, we are joined by special guest Jill Wine-Banks who was one of the prosecutors during the Watergate scandal. Wine-Banks later served under President Jimmy Carter as the first woman to hold the position of US General Counsel of the Army. Also, don't miss our panel at  Politicon in Nashville on October 27th! Get tickets at Politicon.com. 

Season 4 of How We Win Is Here For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave. But the Maga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the house. Thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to

seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So, the official podcast of the persistence is back with season four. There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself. We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country. And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it, with messaging and communications expert,

co-founder of Way to Win, and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action, and hope. I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. And this is How We Win. Thanks to Third Love for supporting Molar Shirote.

Third Love knows there's a perfect broth for everyone, so right now they're offering our listeners 15% off your first order. Go to thirdlove.com slash AG to find yours today. And thanks to Beta Brand for supporting Muller She Wrote. Beta Brand has the pants to match your style. They have boot cuts, straight legs, skinny, cropped, premium denim, six button, and wide leg pants in dozens of colors, patterns, and cuts. Go to betabrand.com slash AG and get 20% off your dress pant yoga pants.

And thanks to Legacy Box for supporting Muller She Wrote. There's never been a better time to digitally preserve your memories. Visit legacybox.com to get started and for a limited time, they're offering you an exclusive discount. Go to legacybox.com slash AG to get 40% off your first order. This is Sarah Kenzer from Gasplet Nation and your listening to Mueller She wrote. So to be clear Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities.

I have been called a surrogate at a time, a true, in that campaign, and I didn't have, and I have communications at the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for having nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to Molar Shirot. I'm your host A.G. and with me today is Amanda Reader. Hello. Jordan Coburn is taking the day off. Good evening, San Diego. I'm Veronica Horningstone.

Tits McGee is on vacation. Jordan and I had an excellent time in New York and will be at Politicon this weekend. Our panel is Sunday October 27th at 1pm and will be joined by Jill Wein Banks, who is also, incidentally, our interview today. So stick around for the end of the show. You're not going to want to miss that interview. She has some fascinating insights on impeachment. So stick around.

And then we'll be in Boston, November 7th at City Winery. So check us out there. We do have a meet and greet at PolitaCon Sunday at 2.15 I think in the meet and greet area. And we I think we will be putting together since the Boston meet and greet, the venue is sold out. I think we're gonna be putting together

a separate VIP meet and greet at a local. We're gonna announce that this week. Cool. We'll announce it on daily means and Mueller's hero Twitter later this week. Sweet. We do that in every city where, you know, when we sell out the VIP meet and greet,

we'll have a second one at a local restaurant. Yeah, patrons get first access to that. So we'll get just a small space and we'll put it out the day before to our Patreon subscribers. And so it might sell out, but if you want to make sure that you meet us in Boston, become a patron. Yeah, patron patreon.com slash the daily beans and or sorry, or muller she wrote muller she wrote. Yeah, it's the same link to shows in one.

We record two shows on Sunday. Also start looking for this. Coming toward the end of the year, we're gonna move the beans. The daily beans off of the Mola She wrote feed. You're on the Mola She wrote feed right now. And the Mola She wrote episode that we record on Sundays is gonna be the daily beans from Monday morning. So because right now we're trying to record two episodes and trying to make them different. That just seems repetitive and weird. So I just wanted to let you know that that's probably gonna come. And this is also for my mental sanity because writing two shows on the weekend is very mentally taxing. We get a lot of really lovely comments

which are like, hey, G, take a day off. Take a rest. So I'm taking your advice. I'm going to take a show off, but you'll still get, you still get, muller she wrote on Sunday night, but then what we record Sunday night

is gonna go out Monday morning for the daily beans, so on the different feed. So make sure you're subscribed to both feeds. And let's see, what else? Let's see, oh, yes, Boston. I wanna talk about Boston for a second. It's our last show of the year. And I can't wait to see you guys out there.

We haven't really had a show since Seattle. Seattle, so it's been a minute. So I'm really looking forward to it. If you haven't been to one, it's really great. It's not just the show, it's the whole community and you get to meet people and hang out. And if you do have a meet and greet ticket for the venue and you're a patron

and you wanna come to the second meet and greet, you can come to both. Totally. You have first access to purchase those tickets, so. Yes, it's a separate admission for the meet and greet, which is not of the venue. Yeah, because if you, one doesn't get you into the other, but you can come to both if you want. Totally, we'd love to see you there. And there's a lot of news today, but before we get into it, it's time for my favorite segment, Corrections. It's time to say I'm sorry.

Oh, I made a mistake. Alright, so from Barbara Cohen, Caitlin Farrell, Sancio, Andy LaPada, Teresa Timlin, Merrick Garland is not on the second circuit court of appeals. He is on the DC circuit court of appeals. He is on the DC circuit court of appeals. The second circuit serves New York, Vermont, and Connecticut. And the DC circuit court has a pellet jurisdiction over the US District Court for the District of Columbia. Two separate courts.

I, for some reason, just was talking like DC circuit court was under the second circuit. So they're separate. Separate. God keep them separated. Cindy Baxter, Mimi Mimi Fisher and Antonia Marinova say it's not like I go or it's Igor so okay I think that was more I just you know how I call minution Steve

I think it was more of an insult I go and also for me on Frankenstein. Sorry for Neem is I go yeah, no, I'm yeah It's not you not I go or I gore, Shamee. I'll really try my best to do Igor, and I promise. It's like just like my thing was saying the Ukraine versus Ukraine. I'm really trying to be 100% about that. It's just very, it's different to always have to go from being a comedian where you can say whatever the fuck you want, to have into actually think about your words and how they impact people So I'm working on it. So just let me know gentle and send me a sandwich and we'll take care of it

Ruth Greenwood wanted to let us know when we said Republicans weren't good with axioms when Bolton called Giuliani hand grenade. We probably meant idioms Good point. Yes Kirsten Zulfo she says this really isn't a correction, just some info to answer a question. Jordan asked in other crime downtime episode. Jordan wondered why sometimes something sensitive from Fionne Hill would be taken to Pat Sipelone. Short version, the White House Council is supposed to be different from the president's personal attorney.

They are supposed to advise the entire White House and all the staff. And per law fair, quote, the lawyer has a special responsibility for legal and ethics compliance within the West Wing. So that's why you would take it to the climbers is because they aren't supposed to be the personal lawyer for the president, even though they are acting like it. But that's why Fiona Hill would have gone to Pat Sipelone. Hmm. Alice Hamilton says astrology has been used to kill people.

Roman emperors used to read advisor starch arts, and if it was unfavorable, they would execute them. It was also used to predict who would be the most likely to succeed in a political challenge against the emperor, and those people would be murdered. It is not sexist to criticize astrology. Enjoy it for fun, but many will always find it very jarring to watch such a large group of people accept something that is scientifically unsubstantiated, that mentality is scary. I love your show. So it was kind of a really pointed correction, but it ended up with saying something nice.

So. Yeah. Also, I was just kidding. Yeah. It was a being super serious. My point was basically, it says a quick interjection, that a lot of people need a little something, you know, whether it would be organized religion or something spiritual, because the world is a giant trash fire. And for a lot of people, especially LGBT people, we turn to

spiritual schools of that, which accept us more than mainstream Christianity does. And so that's kind of just what I was saying. I work at Sunday Assembly this morning. Yeah, that was awesome. Yeah. It's like a secular sort of journey. I love Sunday Assembly. I love Sunday. I'm not super serious about astrology. I'm not the hardcore about journey. I love suddenly assembly. I love suddenly. I'm not super serious but a strategy. I'm not the hardcore about it. I love science. I've gotten a few tweets about that. So like, I was, I can be a little dry, but I wasn't being super serious about it. Totally get it. But point well taken. Yeah. Totally. Philip Garot. I'm sorry if I'm butchering your name. This isn't so much of a correction as an explanation on why the plural of moose is not mese or mooses. Mousse is a lone word, aka a word English stole from another language.

Oh. And this lone word happens to be new enough that English didn't fully butcher it. Mousse entered English in the 1600s. Goose to Geese comes from Old English where we would pluralize things by changing the vowel sound like tooth to teeth. I put a more in-depth source on the website. So thank you for that. I love etymology. I put a more in-depth source on the website. So thank you for that. I love etymology. I know me too. Good stuff.

A way with words is such a great podcast if you're not. Martha Barnett, hi, and I love you guys. Courtney says, I'm an ex-mormon atheist. I was in church, the church from birth, and even graduated from BYU. But I've never heard of the White Horse prophecy. Also the notion that you get your own planet is not actually something. Mormons believe. I was never a believer, but the misinformation about Mormon believes is a pet peeve especially because if you think about any religion critically aren't they all weird?

There's so much to criticize about Mormonism but be sure it's something they actually believe. Gotcha. Roger that. And that's why we ask because you know without being actually in the religion I can't know unless I like watch documentaries and like really fully read up on it and also listen to you guys. So thank you for that. Anonymous. Rodasin said Sunday's episode. Roy Blunt Jr. is a humorous and frequent panelist.

Don't wait, wait, don't tell me. Roy Blunt is a senator since 2011. No relation. I think I'm called Roy Blunt the Senator Roy Blunt Jr. because I listen to more weight weight. Don't tell me than I listened to Republicans. Blair McKinnon, you indeed have a listener from Halifax, Nova Scotia, who was a little terrified by Woody the talking Christmas tree at the worst name shopping mall of all time. Have fun with your mom Amanda.

Amber Davidson on the October 14th daily beans, AG said, Minnesota was her favorite city. Minnesota is a state. I meant Minneapolis when we were in Minnesota, then we were talking about the show. And I said, that's my favorite city. I failed to. Or Minneapolis if you're a Trump.

Minneapolis. Did he say? Minneapolis. Minneapolis. Minneapolis. Something to something wrong. It's hard to say it wrong. It's Minneapolis. Jennifer Blackman. Hi, Something wrong. It's hard to say it wrong. It's Minneapolis.

Jennifer Blackman. Hi, I have a correction for a correction. This week on Mola Shirod, there was a correction that said we don't need 67 senators to convict Trump in the Senate. That's true. The Constitution said two-thirds of those present, but it's not true. You could do it if three senators were there. The Senate has quorum rules.

Coincidentally, I read this article this morning. So I think you have to have 51 senators to have a quorum. Those are corrections. If you have any just head to mullershirope.com, click contact, select corrections, and build us a compliment sandwich. We will read them on the air, so let us know if you want to remain anonymous, we will get it right eventually. We do have a ton of news to get to, so let's jump in with just the facts. Oh, if Jordan was here, her boyfriend, Nunez, is back, ex-boyfriend, back in the news this week, because during a closed-door impeachment hearing, one of the depositions, he brought up the steel dossier, and that some of its contents dealt with Ukraine, and that the Clintons paid for it. The source for this, who was in the hearing, referred to Nunez's remarks as Nutsso and Awkward,

and the source added that Sondland, the American envoy to the EU, appeared puzzled and perplexed by Nunes' commentary. As you know, the dossiers at the crux of the GOP argument that the intelligence community conspired to take down Trump in some deep-state coup, and during his testimony, Sondland seemed to flip on Trump, but didn't quite, and told the committee that Trump directed him to send the no quid pro quo text to Vulker and bill Taylor however. His testimony seemed to protect Trump more than out him. Marcy Wheeler notes this that his lawyer is the same guy that helped Karl Rove talk his way out of crimes in the Valerie Plame case. First he would not

admit that Trump directed him to muscle his way into Ukraine policy even though he's the EU ambassador and Ukraine is not part of the EU. Instead he seems to implicate Giuliani and blame Pompeo. Even though we know statements and text messages to Bill Taylor were to avoid leaving a paper trail, Bill Sunlin testified that they were not, and he thought that Quid Pro Quo wasn't illegal. It was all cool, very legal, very cool. And those are both lies, and I think he should go to jail for them.

And Bill Taylor, incidentally, will be testifying this week as Bill Barr's investigation into the origins of the Mueller probe continues. And we'll have more on the oranges of the Mueller probe later in the show. But Bill Taylor is who I've been wanting to hear from since before we knew he was going to testify. He's the one who was like, I think this is crazy. You can't withhold White House meetings and military aid for help with your political can. Some illegal shit.

Yeah. When's he testifying? Tuesday. Excited. Yeah, that'll be interesting. And we seem to get, I don't know if I'd call him leaks, but we seem to get briefings like public journalism briefings after these testimonies happen.

We seem to sort of get the long and short of it. And I don't know how that's controlled or not. You know, if it is or if we should be getting this information, if we shouldn't, or if there is stuff that we're not getting yet, because I know that there's some stuff that at least Adam Schiff is saying, you know, we, this doesn't get to go public yet. This is an investigation. It's a private investigation. And that's what the, that's what impeachment is. The house, actually, the grand jury, not the trial. So there shouldn't be cross-examinations. And you don't get, quote unquote, due process

during an investigation. You're being investigated. Yeah, it's an investigation. So chill out. But I mean, I talk a little bit about this with Jill Wine Banks later in the show, but they have always said that even with the Grand jury, with Mueller's Grand Juries, that I can't remember the Wisconsin guy's

name, but he went when questioning Mueller, he was like, well, why were there no cross-examinations during the Grand jury? And he's like, what? What? It's not how that's not how it goes. It's not SPU. It goes. That's, that happens in a trial. Not the investigation part. And from Reuters

this week, Russia and the United States are gradually resuming cooperation on cyber security, according to the head of Russia's FSB, federal security service Alexander Bortnakov. According to Bortnakov, they're restoring the cyber security relations with the US and the wake of Russian US relations being strained by issues, including US allegations that Russia hacked the 2016 presidential elections. So I don't know if this has to do with. Remember when Trump came out and said, well, you know, I think it made him even in Helsinki, but he said, you know, I talked to Putin and we're going to work on cyber security together

and everyone went, what? Let's not fucking do that. Do you know anything about this Bort-Nakhov, dude? Just no other than he's the head of the FSB Federal Security Service. I've heard his name before, but... He was unwise for us to work with restaurants, I've heard security. Yeah. I'm curious.

Again, like you said, all roads lead to Putin. So I'm curious. It would surprise me very little. This guy was just, you know, one of Putin's dudes trying to work with the US to help us. Putin should all over our own election. Putin's dudes.

Putin's dudes, you know? That's not a weird band. Yeah, I don't know. That's what I first thought when Trump said that, you know, we're gonna get together and work on Cybersecurity. I'm like, are you to let him into our State Department and our FBI and our CIA and our NSA? Rad, dude.

Cool. I mean, he gave Bill Barr the keys to the kingdom when he said you can pretty much declassify anything. And so I don't really trust this Department of Justice at all. But yeah, I'm interested to know more about the inner workings of what the cyber security program is between the United States and Russia. Because what are we doing? Because right now, what we need is protection from Russia. So I feel like we should be working with other countries.

It also feels a little bit like the, if we do it out in the open, it's less obvious. Yeah. Yeah. You're probably banging broad daylight. It's not illegal. Yeah. And in a new book by New Yorker writer Ronan Farrow, he reveals that American Media Inc. That's the parent company of the inquirer shredded sensitive documents about Donald Trump that had been kept in Peckers safe right before he was elected. We've talked about Peckers safe many, many times. It was Dylan Howard actually the editor-in-chief of the inquire at the time that directed a staff member to quote get everything out of the safe We needed to get a shredder down there

That order apparently came the same day a Wall Street Journal reporter called the inquire to ask for comment on the $150,000 payment to Karen McDougal to keep her quiet about an affair she had with Trump. They paid her for her story and then killed it. That's called Catch and Kill. And that's what Ronan Farrow's new book is called Catch and Kill. As it turns out, the safe was actually kept in the office of the executive editor Barry Levine. And according to the book, an inquireer employee said that there was a larger than customary amount of trash that was collected that day. Apparently, there was a master list that Dylan Howard had compiled of all the dirt they had on Trump over the decades. And after the election, Cohen asked the inquire

for everything they had on Trump. You know, that's what a fixer does, right? And one of the employees found that the master list didn't match up with the physical files and the safe because some of the materials had gone walkies, as Mata would say. And according to Jerry George, an inquire journalist, a pecker killed perhaps 10 fully reported stories about Trump and nixed many more potential leads. And an AMI spokesperson has said that Mr. Ferro's narrative is driven by unsubstantiated allegations

from questionable sources and that the stories are completely untrue. So they were working with him for quite a while for a long time, the being choir. Yeah, Francis Trump for a long time, and catching and killing his stories for a while. Not only that, but they'd also been keeping dirt on him. So, you know, but mostly in this kind of catch and kill arena because Pecker and Trump have been friends forever like three decades or something. And so I think that what happened is once, you know, a couple days before the election and when that call came in from the Wall Street Journal to ask about the $150,000 catch and kill with Karen McDougall, Pecker was like, oh shit, and Dylan Howard, who, you know, was,

he's always up there on my radar for fantasy indictment draft, said, we have to destroy this stuff. Not because, well, because he's our friend, and now he's gonna be president, and I think they were more about protecting Trump than just having dirt on him and being able to control him. They were like, better us have the dirt than someone else.

Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, yeah. And also, if we have the dirt, we and being able to control him. They were like better us have the dirt than someone else. Yeah, I think that's it. Yeah, yeah. And also if we have the dirt, we can catch and kill the stories. Yeah. Right. So anyway, I thought that was interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Especially because we know that, you know, they signed a non-proscution agreement,

AMI did, with the in the whole catching kill story when it was in the Southern District of New York. Now it's with Sivance and the Manhattan DZ DA's office, but I don't know what happened to that non-priced execution agreement because they, if you sign a non-priced execution agreement, it only is good for you if you stop doing crimes. And they extorted basals with the help of Saudi Arab Saudi Arabia with the photos of his Lauren Sanchez, who was his affair, his mistress at the time, or whatever. And Bezos just came out on medium and said, I'm having an affair, here's all the stuff

they're trying to blackmail me, and I'm not gonna let it happen. And my super security guys is finding out that a lot of this could have come from Saudi Arabia. And in choir worked with Saudi Arabia and Trump to put out these, like, pro Saudi Arabia, propaganda magazines and stuff. So it's just like, how did you have

that non-proscution agreement signed in September and then do the extortion after that? And then, like, still somehow have a non-proscution agreement. But then Barc comes in and he's appointed and then that whole investigation stops in the Southern District of New York. And I don't know if that meant that the investigation into AMI and Inquirer also stopped at that point. But I know that Manhattan DA, so I'veance is now looking into it with the major crimes

unit. I think it's called the major crimes unit. Do you think Bill can Bill bar shut that down or is that that's a state crime? It's state, right? So he can't. Okay. Yeah. But he can't. Okay. But we'll see. Yeah.

Alright, we'll be back with more headlines. Hey, it's A.G. And I want to tell you about my new favorite bra by a woman-owned company called Third Love. I'm obsessed with these bras because they manage to find my perfect fit using millions of real women's measurements and taking into account cup size and shape for an impeccable fit and an incredible feel. Third love is the industry leader with 80 sizes, which include their signature half cup sizes because about half a woman fallen between cup sizes me included. So

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Giuliani. First, we learned that there's now a counterintelligence aspect to the federal investigation into Rudy. We found out through a lawyer named Kenneth McAllian who was approached in February or March by FBI counterintell agents and was asked if he or any of his clients knew anything about dealings with Lev and Igor and Giuliani. And as it turns out, some of the FBI agents and prosecutors handling this case come from the same public corruption unit that nabbed Cohen. And this investigation into Giuliani is still ongoing. We know because former congressman Pete Sessions was subpoenaed and must testify to the grand jury.

And this is the same grand jury that issued the Parnas and Fruiman indictments. And grand juries aren't supposed to continue to hear witnesses if the charges in a case have been filed already. So Pete Sessions is the congressman that received millions, three million, I think, from the Trump pack, named in the indictment that Levine Gore made straw donations to. We should mention they made a $325,000 donation. And we should mention its Brad Parscale Trump's current campaign share that coordinated the pack. So Sessions also wrote a letter to Pompeo complaining about Marie Yvanovich, the former ambassador to Ukraine, who was removed by Trump. So that's

interesting that sessions, Pete sessions, would have anything to do with that after receiving $3 million. That sounds to me like you're lobbying on behalf of Ukraine. Interesting. And according to the Washington Post, Giuliani privately urged Trump to extradite the Turkish cleric Gulen. Turkey has been demanding this guy for years because they want him to stand trial on charges of plotting a coup against Erdogan in 2016. And Rudy is not the first person to lobby Trump on behalf of Turkey to extradite Gulen, specifically.

Flynn and Bigeon Rafikian, also known as Bigeon Kean, also tried this, and Flynn was offered 15 million dollars to kidnap him and fly him away in the night. And Bijan-Kian is now in prison for lobbying on behalf of Turkey without registering as a foreign agent. Flynn would be too if he didn't make a deal with the feds, which he's currently in the middle of blowing up. And I can't help but wonder if there are super-seating charges coming down for Flynn, and that's why Gulen and Giuliani are being brought up in the news right now.

Either way, we can most certainly add Pharaoh violations to Rudy's list of charges because he's lobbying not just on behalf of Ukraine. He's lobbying straight, strictly on behalf of Turkey in this situation. And he did it with that Reza Zorob thing too, where he tried to get Tillerson to drop the charges on that guy. Yeah, yeah. And my apologies, where is Goulin? I know he's not in Turkey anymore, where is he now?

I think he lives in Philadelphia. Oh, okay, so he's here in the States. Yeah, he's here. I was like wondering if he was somewhere else in Europe. Okay, okay, so the guy who helped organize the coup against everyone is in the States now. Yeah, but he didn't help organize the coup against everyone. It's just who he's blaming.

It was like when Putin blamed Hillary for the protests in 2012. I know that there was an uprising in 2016 in Turkey, but I didn't know the names of all the players, so I wasn't exactly sure. Yeah, wow. Side note, slight tangent. The way that Erdogan asks journalists

or anyone who disagrees with him from any mainstream conversation in Turkey is particularly terrifying. Yeah, and then we have to think that it was Turkey or anyone who disagrees with him from any mainstream conversation in Turkey is particularly terrifying. Yeah. And then we have to think that it was Turkey where Kashoggi was dismembered. Exactly. And, you know, which was ordered by Muhammad bin Salman, Muhammad Bonsa, Saudi Arabia.

And our intelligence communities have said that with high confidence and Trump still should have. He's really pals with a bunch of not free speech-loving dudes. Yeah. Yeah. We call them traders to the crown in Saudi Arabia. Yeah. Yeah. If you're a free speech loving dude.

And in fact, Kashoggi was extradited from, not extradited, exiled from Saudi Arabia because of his negative views on Trump. Was it Adam Schiff recently? Was it when the right after the impeachment inquiry was announced? I was at Adam Schiff who was like, you where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where

I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where I was at a place where instructed justice again last week in the Southern District of New York when they indicted Turkish Hulk Bank for a money laundering scheme that smuggled money to Iran to skirt US sanctions on Iran. This was the scheme that Zerab was involved in. I just mentioned him

and Zerab is the guy that Giuliani pushed Tillerson to stop the investigation into. Indicating Rudy was lobbying illegally for Turkey then too. But the bank wasn't indicted then because Trump, Erdogan and Barr were trying to work out a settlement agreement. Erdogan repeatedly raised the topic with Trump on many phone calls, including a November 2018 phone conversation, and Trump told Erdogan in April of this year that Barr and Manusian Steve would handle the matter. Hey, handle the matter. Well, the Southern District filed the criminal charges without giving the White House advance notice on the matter. No one can figure out what prompted the indictment or why they're doing it now, Well, the Southern District filed the criminal charges without giving the White House advance notice on the matter.

No one can figure out what prompted the indictment or why they're doing it now after over a year. I mean, I know that the crimes prompted the indictment, but if they just went straight by the crimes, they should have been indicted a while ago. Right. It seems to me it was in defiance of the White House, this indictment and the Department of Justice, who, unless we hear about other communications, showing, you know, bar and Trump told Erdogan they'd handle it to appease him, knowing full well they'd indict, showing, you know, bar and Trump told Erdogan they'd handle it to appease him,

knowing full well they'd indict the bank, I doubt that'll happen. And our instincts were correct, by the way, about bars tripped to Italy. Beans come true. Beans come true. Trump sent him there to find a deep state plot involving Mif Suid.

But the Italian government has determined that its intelligence community had no connection to the multi-professor that Papadopoulos and the Trump campaign dirt on Hillary in the form of stolen emails. Why were the Italians even looking into that? Well, because Barr had asked Italy to aid the Justice Department in his investigation into the investigation. The idea being that Miffsaid was an Italian intelligence operative used by the United States CIA or the FBI to

entrap the Trump campaign by pretending to act like a Russian agent and offering to share information about Russia's efforts to tip the election in Trump's favor. This is just one of several efforts by Trump and his lap dog bar to discredit the grounds for Mueller's investigation with the ultimate goal of raising doubt that Russia meddled in our elections so that Trump can lift those sanctions. Another conspiracy theory is that the DNC hacked servers in Ukraine, which is part of the quid pro quo in the current Ukraine scandal. When asked Wednesday about bars meeting in Italy,

Trump said he was unaware of the details, just that he knows we're looking into corruption for the 2016 election. And bars trip to Italy was with Durham, that's the US Attorney investigating the investigation, but bar is closely overseeing it. And they did go there to request information from the Italian government about Mif Sud. Papadopoulos has been saying that Mif Sud was part of the Obama administration. Will the Italian government says no?

So they said, we looked into it for you, and no. I wonder what they pressured them with. Can we believe we're wasting taxpayer dollars for bar to fly to Italy to dig up dirt on bullshit? And Australia and China. Yeah. All over the world. And Ukraine.

Yeah. And especially because like we're, I mean, I know you said why I understand why that they their ultimate goal is to get the sanctions lifted. You know, I understand that, but they're, they're method. the big picture route that they're doing to do this. It's just, it's ridiculous. Yeah, I know. Yeah.

And that bar wouldn't even participate in it. Because when bar came on board, that's your attorney general. The girls at Gaslet Nation, I'm sure, the women at Gaslet Nation were like, don't trust them. And I'm like, ah, he's an old institutionalist. I was kind of taken Chuck Rosenberg's word for it. He worked with him in the past. Other Nation were like, don't trust him. And I'm like, ah, he's an old institutionalist. I was kind of taking Chuck Rosenberg's word for it. He worked with him in the past. Other people were like, yeah, I mean, he's kind of a butthole,

but like he's not like a Giuliani level butthole. And now to find out that he's literally, all their time is not focused on actual corruption in the United States. It's going around the country to try to plant conspiracy theories to help Trump can live sanction on Russia, specifically on Russia. And that's where those, that's why all roads lead to Putin was the thing.

And we'll talk more about that a little bit later. But speaking of Durham and the investigation into the oranges of the Miller probe, that inquiry is broadening as FBI witnesses are now being questioned. And as an aside, this really pisses me off, just like what you were saying. They're questioning the hardworking men and women of the FBI based on conspiracy theories written by Putin-backed Ukrainian criminals for Tosh, who are currently wanted in the United States. And now, and now, and we're interviewing our own FBI agents over this.

But this investigation is led by John Durham, with Bill Barr closely overseeing it, as I said. And it's focused on former investigators that are the favorite targets of Trump. And what's totally shitty here is that they're asking witnesses pointed questions about who they voted for and if they have anti-Trump bias. That seems really like super fascist to me. And so far they they've interviewed about two dozen former and current FBI officials. Though they haven't yet questioned McCabe, struck Comey, or James Baker.

And I really have to say, and I've talked to a lot of former FBI, former CIA, saying, they've sit there and be asked, what who you voted for, and if you have political bias, is unprecedented. I mean, Trump did it with McCabe, but he brought him in, said, who'd you vote for, your wife's a loser or whatever. But to continue this right now through our Department of Justice,

asking agents who they voted for. It also affects the rest of their career. You know, these people are supposed to be a political and it's harmful to their future career to admit these things. And private citizens are allowed to have private political opinions, unless it's come to light that they're doing their job improperly. Like, you're crime, they're going to find evidence against your crime who they voted for as a relevant. Well, and the DOJ Inspector General did a whole big investigation into Struck in Page and the texts and all that shit.

And found, yeah, they had a lot of you know biases toward Bernie Trump and Hillary But found ultimately that none of those biases Informed their work right that their work was fine and I think that's what's gonna come out of this investigation To there are otherwise they're just gonna have to make shit up. They're trying to indict McCabe and the grand jury won't come back with it Yeah, it's one thing to like stuff, you know, publicly with your political opinion, but you're allowed to have a private political opinion as a member of the American intelligence community.

And you're right, it is really fascist that he's doing this. Yeah, and I mean, there are Hatch Act rules, which Trump actually modified to say you can't say anything bad about Trump. Instead of you can't say anything bad about a political candidate for office, he put his name in there. Just a lot of dick. And so, you know, there are rules. If you're SES or if you're GS, if you work for the federal government, there's certain things you can say. There's certain things you cannot say. There's certain things that you can't say during a certain time of day. There's, you know, it's-

But to suggest that you that you fundamentally can't do your job properly unless you are a Trump supporter. Yeah. And all these people I guarantee you follow their rules. I mean, we have to train on them every six months. So... Yeah. We know what they are.

The White House doesn't follow them, but we do. I mean, they do. One thing, one thing people familiar with the interview say Durham is asking, why struck open the investigation on a weekend, suggesting that's out of the ordinary, so it must be a coup. Former officials say McCabe directed struck to travel immediately to London to interview the Australian diplomats that Papa Dopolis told Russia was going to help. Meanwhile, like I said, Horowitz is conducting an Inspector General investigation into the FBI's actions and the Russia investigation,

and I assume it's gonna sound just like the Comians struck IG report, where they acted badly, but nothing illegal, no bias affected their work, no criminal behavior, et cetera. Durham, and honestly, if a criminal referral is made, like it was in the case of McCabe, a grand jury is not going to come back with an indictment. Duraum is also asking about what role Chris Steel played.

But we know that we know what role he played. So Duraum, if you have any questions, you can ask us. Or ask Horowitz, because he interviewed people close to Steel as part of his Inspector General investigation and found him to be credible, honest, and persistent. Trump, Barr, and Durham seemed to be approaching this thing as though it's already a fact that law enforcement and intel officials had plotted to thwart Mr. Trump's presidency. But this is so easy. They all knew that Trump was under investigation by the FBI.

They could have just said so if they wanted to thwart his campaign. You know, if struck in page, really wanted the insurance policy of making sure Trump didn't win, all they had to do was tell the Washington Post he's under federal investigation for the FBI for election meddling. And holy shit, he that would have could have tanked his election, just like Komi, probably most likely tanked Hillary's election by reopening her email investigation 11 days before the thing. But to sit there and say, you know, this was a coup, all they had to do was leak that tiny little

piece of information that they didn't that Trump was under investigation and they did not. So I don't even understand how you could think for a second that they were out to get them when there it was, right, on a platter for the easiest way to get them. Yeah, they're going to hate you in private, bro. Everyone does. And that has to be the ultimate finding, right? Like, hey, they didn't like you, but they didn't- They did their job properly.

They didn't call you out in public. Exactly. They didn't tattle on you. Exactly. Yeah, it's just amazing. We will be right back with more hot notes. It used to be if I wanted comfortable work attire, I'd have to sacrifice style,

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these. But I wanted to discuss for today. So you and I, Mandy, we can discuss these. But I wanted to discuss for a little bit the common thread that runs through the Mueller investigation, the Ukraine scandal, and the Turkish slaughter of the Kurds in Syria. And that common thread is Putin. It's Russia, right? And I really just want to make sure everyone sort of understands contextually how this is all coming together. Because as we know, Trump has two major goals with Putin, and that's to lift the sanctions

imposed by Obama for the annexation of Crimea and the sanctions for stealing the 2016 elections. In the phone call between Trump and Zelensky, and in the texts between Sondland, Volker, and Bill Taylor, we know that Trump asked for investigations into Biden and for Ukraine to announce that it was investigating the Democrats for hacking the DNC with Ukraine's servers in exchange for the sale of Javilan's and military aid. That's what Trump wanted. That the country depends on to keep Russia at bay. And we can even go back to the Manafort times, by the way, when all of a sudden, four investigations that were being cooperated on between Ukraine

and Mueller were dropped on Manafort right before the sale of Javolens. And so when we get this new phone call, Enzelenski says, yeah, I'm ready to buy more Javolens. And Trump says, okay, I have a favor to ask though. Could you please investigate the, you know, Burisma with Joe Biden and also the 2016 election. So it's it that that javelin sales stuff is pretty crazy. And I think that's why the Office of Management and Budget are refusing to hand over documents. They're not they're defying their subpoena.

But by getting Ukraine to announce that investigation into the DNC, just that alone discredits the claims that Russia was the culprit, and it gives Trump a reason to lift the election hacking sanctions. He can say, ah, yeah, well, we have several different places looking into the claim that Russia is the one who hacked our elections, and that means that we don't know, and so therefore I can lift sanctions that were imposed. And to go a little bit further, forcing Zelensky and Ukraine into submission by trying to make them cut a deal with Putin would give him reason to lift the Crimea annexation sanctions, right? Because if there's no more, there's a peace deal between Ukraine and Zelensky and Putin,

we don't need those. It's not necessary anymore. We don't need those Crimea annexation sanctions. And that's the other group that wants to lift. Yeah, part of the, uh, uh, I forgive me, I can't remember who exactly said it, but one of the things about the communications between one of Trump's people and Zelensky was saying make sure he announced the announced the investigation. That was in the text message.

That was in the text message. Exactly, the text message is right. I wasn't sure exactly who'd sent to Tim, but someone said to Zelensky's administration, not only do you need to investigate it, but you have to announce that you're investigating it. Yeah, the public said to Zolensky's administration, not only do you need to investigate it, but you have to announce that you're investigating it. The public has to know. And that was what they were saying in order to get a White House visit that you would

have to do that. Right, exactly. And that's when Bill Taylor comes in and says, wait, now we're holding White House meetings and military aid? Yeah. The optics were more important than the actual investigation itself, because the investigation is going to amount to nothing. It's the optics of the investigation. It's to announce it.

And that's the propaganda that Osharengapa was talking with us about. And that's exactly it. That just one little seated doubt is good enough. And we can probably look at the Giuliani Lev Parnas, Igor Fruman, Shenanigans as a continuation of Manifort's work, because Manifort, like Giuliani, was paid using a super PAC to funnel foreign money and a federal judge ruled that Manifort had lied about that scheme. Manifort also lied about repeated discussions in meetings to support the Ukrainian peace plan, which is really just a cover for Quid Pro Quo tied to election interference. And Marcy Wheeler contends that if you don't follow Marcy Wheeler, you need to.

She contends that parts of the Maniford investigation could still be ongoing. And what's really interesting is this week we learned that a business in the United Kingdom with ties to Deripaska was raided by our FBI. And we know Maniford is still in debt toerepOSCA who he promised polling data to and campaign updates to make whole His debt because he had some sort of failed 19 million dollar telecom deal with DerepOSCA DerepOSCA suit him twice once in Georgia once the United States for 19 20 million dollars and then when Manafort got the job with Trump those lawsuits went away Well now they're saying it looks like he still owes him 10 million dollars Oh shit and so that we could still have an ongoing investigation into that. With regard to Syria,

move on to Syria now. When Trump announced the withdrawal of troops near the border of Syria in northern border, it expands the influence of Russia, for which Syria represents a foothold in the Middle East to Putin. It benefits Russia, Iran, and the Assad regime, and it undermines NATO and our allies at the same time. This position played out for all to see in a UN Security Council resolution vote to condemn Turkey's move into Syria and the US broke with our allies and NATO and voted with Putin to block that effort to condemn the invasion. These moves culminate in that historic photo,

Trump himself tweeted with Nancy Pelosi standing up, reprimanding him while senior officials head of the joint chiefs, all hanging their heads in shame, sitting there looking really just dogged. And it was during that meeting that Pelosi said to Trump, with you all roads lead to Putin. And I think that this sort of, if we put everything together, Syria, Ukraine, Manifort, Mueller, it's true,

all roads with Trump lead to Putin, that he really is trying his best to get those sanctions, those two sets of sanctions lifted, and get the Magnetski Act turned over. Those are Putin's main goals, because that's what blocks him from becoming, you know, he's already the richest man in the world. Yeah. Even more rich. So you're right. Yeah, all of these threads have a common like it all has a commonality. It all leads back to Putin.

And again, it just comes back to what I mean, it's not just that they're, it's not just that Trump wants to be friends with all of these, you know, dictators and authoritarian and etc. of these dictators and authoritarians, et cetera. But again, I think it's that Russia has something on Trump. He has to. There's no way. He just has a choice. Otherwise, why wouldn't Trump want to be in the position of ultimate power at all times

if they didn't have anything on him? He would be like, well, I can be the best one, but it's obvious that he's countering to Putin in so many ways. And so they absolutely must have something on him. Yeah, definitely. And that's been said by a million KGBP. Absolutely.

Like, yeah, we have a whole file on Trump going back to the 80s. And that brings us back to the Mueller investigation, which is currently being investigated by Bill Barr and Durham, who's talked about that, who've been traveling the world, like you said, to make conspiracy theories stick about the origins of the investigation. Like I said in Italy, trying to get them to say Mifsood worked for intelligence there and entrapped Papadopolis in Australia, where they're trying to discredit Alexander Downer. But every single court case has gone against Trump and the Department of Justice, including this week, when a judge determined that some of the redactions in the Mueller report were

improper. I don't know if you've heard this story, but it's a big one. The Department of Justice redacted some things for grand jury reasons that were not related to the grand jury. When it redacted, the names of two people that did not appear before the grand jury, but said it was for grand jury reasons, but they were witnesses to key events and were questioned by the FBI. So, they have three O2s on them. The DOJ justified redacting these names, saying that if they were witnesses to key events and were questioned by the FBI. So they have three O2s on them.

The DOJ justified redacting these names, saying that if they were public, people would be able to discern names of people that did testify before the grand jury, and using some kind of magical process of elimination. And when we went over this last week, Judge Braille Hall had, this is all for the case to get the grand jury materials

that the Oversight Committee put in a while back. So Judge Berlalhal had asked the Department of Justice why it hadn't produced the 302s requested by Congress from interviews in the Mueller Probe. Department of Justice actually tried to convince the court that if it handed over all the 302s, 33 of them, and listed the two redacted names of people who did not just have testified the grand jury,

Americans would be able to deduce who did speak to the grand jury, thereby violating the rules of grand jury secrecy. But the judge unraveled their dumb ass math and denied their opposition to releasing the redactions. And thereby have been ordered to the, they have, she has ordered the DOJ to provide the unredacted names and the rest of the 302s. So we should see that soon. If you're nerds about the report, the way A.G. is,

it's like, has beans on every single redacted line in the entire report. We were trying to figure out who the two names are. Some people think it's Comey and McCabe. Some people think it's Struck and Page. Some people think it's, I mean, what are your beans? I, well, I have to look at it again,

but I think that it could be a dillin and porter. Because two of the 302s that were handed over are from dillin and porter, I do not know if dillin and porter testified to the grand jury that it would make sense that porter did, but 75% of those are redacted of their 302s. So I found that that to be very kind of, that's a lot of redactions. Yeah. But then it could also be Some people say it could be junior, but I think junior testified to the grand jury. I think he's under one of the grand jury testimony black bars

Could also be Kushner or Ivanka. I mean, it could be you have to think about who has a 302 But was not those guys been up to recently. I feel like we haven't talked about old Kush and Ivanka in a while They're probably on low because their dad's unraveling. Just chillin'. He's going kinda crazy. But anyway, I think it's really interesting because I think it's somebody who has a 302. Right.

And there's a list of people who have 302s that the Department of Justice has not handed over yet. And I don't know which I have to like eliminate which ones have testified that I know of testified before the grand jury. But we just don't know which I have to like eliminate, which ones have testified that I know of testified before the grand jury, but we just don't know because the grand jury is secret. That's what the DOJ was saying is, yeah, A.G. will be able to find out, you know, but the math doesn't out up. Right. If there were everyone but two names left. If it was so obvious, you would know already. Yeah. Yeah. So I, there, it's just going

to be guesses. But and because they have handed over handed over the Dylan and Porter 302s, but they're just 75% redacted. I feel like Porter would have testified to the grand jury for sure, because he had so much knowledge. So when does this come out? I don't know. We'll see. Which is ordered it. But this is like the first court order.

They have to release some shit. No, it's not. But they've complied with all the other releases that they're supposed to do, except they've been slow walking this 302 process. That hasn't, actually that hasn't been a court order, but she could rule on that very soon. All right, are you ready for sabotage? I am. All right, so here's my sabotage. First of all, it's all Giuliani and Levin Egor.

Because Levin Egor, their arrangement was pushed a week back. I don't know if that necessarily means that they're cutting a deal. Parnas is still in custody as it met his bail conditions. Giuliani is definitely under investigation. He's a target in this investigation. I don't know how much more they have to do, but that lawyer, McKinif McKinif, I think, he said that he was contacted about Giuliani and Levin Egor as early as February. So this investigation has been going on for a while, and it seems like it's about time that that could come out. And also about six months ago, Adam Schiff made a

federal criminal referral for Eric Prince to the Department of Justice. So I wanted to just bring that up again. After about six months of criminal, after a criminal referral, I'd be like, ah, everybody, you know, keep it on the radar for your fantasy indictment draft. So. It's like your Google calendar. Yeah. Ready to go. It is. I do. I put it in warnings. Whenever a criminal referral is made, I put a six month Be Siri remind me in six months Yeah, Eric Prince was referred criminal referral to the Department of Justice But we do also have to keep in mind that bar is at the Department of Justice and could be blocking these things

But with the Southern District of New York now all of a sudden I know that they shut down the cone investigation to the hush money payments And I don't know if bar did that, but they did indict a parnas and fruman and kukushkin and korea, and they are investigating Giuliani, and they did indict Hulkbunk, and I don't know if the timing is interesting with this whole Ukraine thing coming out, but maybe Southern District of New York is like,

we don't have to protect that, Emma, I'm afraid anymore, and we're just gonna go ahead is like, we don't have to protect that ever ever anymore. And we're just going to go ahead and indict when we know it's right to indict. We have a grand jury on our side. Go ahead and try to stop us. I don't know if that's really what's happening, but it feels like it. So maybe Southern District of New York is back. Or back, baby.

That one can... A girl can dream. A girl can dream. Come on, Sivans. So let's just think I know while he's being... It's about the case, yeah. I hope they had died him. I just want to, I want an indictment out in New York

before the impeachment trial happens. Did you see, speaking of the debate today, did you see when Kamala Harris was like, the only reason you have not, you're not in jail is because of that, oh, LC memo. Yeah. Do you see how's the personal favorite moment? Yeah.

Yeah. Kala. She's right. She's totally right. But it was great to, it was, and again, Kamala, not one of the top three candidates right now, she probably should drop out. However, if she won, I would vote for her.

I would love to see her as a turning general. Totally. Yeah, again, it was great to hear her say that so plainly. Then bring Susan Rice back. She's Kala these days. Love her. All right, so let's she's killed about these days. Love her. Uh, all right, so let's play the fantasy indictment league. I'm gonna be a dine. No way. It's gonna be okay. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a dine. I'm gonna be a d pick? I'm I'm the only should I just draft mine or do you know? Just draft yours. I've you know what I didn't prepare. Okay. Otherwise, I would have but I'll draft mine Oh, do yours. I'll text Jordan. I'll get hers. Okay, and I'll post it in the groups. We know she wants barrack

You're actually absolutely wants barrack. I'm gonna go with Giuliani Superseating Frueman Mm-hmm and a Parn harness plea agreement and then Nader and Pecker. Pecker. So I'm a bit pecker. Yeah, and I'm going to post this on Patreon.

Our Finnecine Diet, Finnecine Dietment post later today and also in our new Facebook group, which is behind the beans. Yes. And it's for patrons only. And we have some awesome moderators and some really good community guidelines to keep everything on the epinep and respectful and positive. Yeah. So yeah, if you want to plan along with the fantasy indictment, you can find that post on

Patreon or in our behind the beans group. And if you cannot find that Facebook group, you can send me an email to Amanda Atmuller She wrote because I know a couple of folks who had a hard time finding it because apparently there is a coffee lovers group in Australia called Behind the Beings. We should tell them, hey, we're also. Yeah. But yeah, behind the means, look for a mug

with super space beans on it. That's our avatar. Is that what it's called still? It's our, it's our group picture. Yeah, yeah, photo. We will be right back, stick around because right after this quick break we're going to have an interview with Jill Wine Banks and forgive the sound quality we had to do it by cell phone because she was traveling but I mean it sounds great

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Mola She wrote. Thank you for having me. I enjoy the podcast and I'm very happy to be with you and I look forward to seeing you again at Politica. Yeah, we're going to have a good time. That's right. You're going to be on our panel, which is going to be on the 27th at 1pm and we're looking forward to that. And I'm so glad that you could join us today, because your experience with the impeachment process, I think, really going to help us understand some of the things we're seeing and hearing with the current impeachment inquiry and the frame, and in that framework of understanding, I want to ask you what your feelings are on Pelosi's plan to sort of limit

the scope of impeachment to just Ukraine, like not thinking about a monument or all the different abuses of power or everything that he's done before that. And I think I was wondering if you thought that was a good strategy. I think it's a good strategy for this very moment. I think that eventually when articles of impeachment are, and I believe that they will be, because the evidence in plain sight right now demands that there be articles of impeachment.

And I think when that happens, that they will have to put this particular impeachable offense in the context of everything else. During Watergate, we used three articles of impeachment, and all of them apply in this case, and there are specifications under each one. So you have for sure contempt of Congress, which is a very serious thing,

because it interferes with our democratic process. It interferes with separation of powers and the checks and balances envisioned by the Constitution. So you have to include the contempt of Congress. And here it goes beyond what happened in Watergate, here in addition to trying to interfere with and being contemptuous of the impeachment inquiry and any other inquiry into crimes by the administration. They are interfering with and refusing to comply with subpoenas for ordinary routine oversight matters on things like immigration, the caging of children, other things that are normal in our process.

So that would have to be one of the articles. The Mueller report spells out obstruction of justice and you would have to be silly to not include those proven cases where the president himself intervened to prevent the investigation by Mueller. So that would be another one. And the abusive power is so apparent, one example of which is using his power as president to shake down the Ukrainian president. So that

is one example of abusive power, but there are so many others which would include, for example, the Amalemance violation of announcing that the G7 would be held at his resort in Miami, in June. That is another abuse of power. It's also a violation of conflict of interest rules. It's a violation of the contracting laws of the United States to have him who has inside knowledge have a contract. So I think that eventually it will all be put in context.

And the phone call, of course, has to be in the context of what he assigned his personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, who, using Russian-born assets, did in Ukraine to try to make up evidence that would hurt the findings of the entire intelligence community of the United States. They had been working for a long time. This wasn't the first time that Donald Trump tried to get a phony investigation going. That's what Rudy Giuliani and his colleagues were trying to do for a long time. They were interfering in the normal state department processes. They managed to get Ambassador Yovanovich fired, removed from her office for no reason except

that she stood up to their corruption, and they wanted to be able to have their own way. There is a lot going on, but let's just focus on what that telephone call is and what we know about it and leading up to it, which includes the removal of the mastery of out of it. But it also includes Ambassador Taylor and I mean all the people who have already testified and all the people who are about to testify. Yeah, and I think Bill Taylor is coming up here this week too and I think he's going already testified and all the people who are about to testify and i think bill tailors coming up here this week to and i think he's going to be

a really important witness in that and uh... i think that you know i was wondering why you think that like this you crane thing was the final it like of all the stuff that he's done over the past three years was it is it americans uh... ability to easily easily understand the crime here that maybe made this straw that broke the camel's back? It's so hard to understand. I remember during the campaign, all the many times I said, well, Donald Trump is finished.

I thought for sure, grabbing pussy remark would have been the end of him. And it wasn't. It didn't even start to meet you movement. That took Harvey Weinstein. Why Harvey Weinstein and not the president? I can't explain why the American people grabbed on to the Harvey Weinstein accusations and and that's the 18 women who accused the president of sexual misconduct. So it's hard to know why, and whether this is just the chipping point. You know, you can bury stuff and bury stuff and bury stuff and keep ignoring all the wrongdoing until it gets to a point when you can't. It's been analogized to the boiling frog experiment. You put a frog in the warm water and you start boiling it. And it doesn't jump out.

It just dies. And so maybe that's the problem is that it just was happening gradually, gradually, gradually. So I can't explain it, but I think we have hit the point. And then there was one additional that has turned the Republicans in the Congress against the president. And that was what he did in caving into President Erdogan of Turkey and withdrawing our troops and giving the green light for attacking the curbs and committing genocide. And now, of course, he's trying to say, let's make a deal

and that there was nothing wrong with doing that. And I've got to punish the Turks for invading, but he is the one who gave them the permission to do it. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube after you give the green light for an invasion. And now he's trying to send, you know, to stop it. He claims victory in having a ceasefire. But anybody who is there, all the reporters who are covering it, are showing the continual

attack and bombing. Yeah, that cease fires isn't working. And I really think that it was just kind of a ploy to get the curbs to stop fighting for a minute so that they could continue to invade. But, you know, I do understand your point that it could just be a tipping point. Some things are tipping points for Republicans where some things are tipping points for like you and I. But something I've also noticed from the GOP are there criticisms

about the impeachment process, including Kevin McCarthy, who recently said the inquiry should be suspended until the same due process rights that were given to Nixon and Clinton are given to Trump. Are they confusing what an investigation is versus what a trial is? They are completely confused. They are deliberately misleading in addition. So I guess confused isn't the word I would use. I would make it more of a deliberate obducation of reality.

During both the Nixon impeachment and the Clinton impeachment, this is the process that was used. In fact, during any criminal investigation, this is the process that's used. The House is the equivalent of a grand jury, the grand jury sits in secret to gather evidence that is not shared with the potential defendant, or in this case, the president, until articles of impeachment in this case, or an indictment in the criminal case happen. Once the articles of impeachment are revealed, then the defendant or the president gets to rebut that evidence, present their own evidence, and see all the incriminating evidence that is against him. During the investigation, number one, where the president has already threatened the whistle

blower, for example, and you know that he will fire anybody who cooperates, you need to protect those people. That's why you do things in secret. You also don't want people trying to coordinate their statements by knowing what the other person said. If you're testifying in secret, then nobody can do that unless they go outside the system, which actually did happen in Watergate where they collaborated on, I'll say this, you say this, so that they would have the same version of defense, let's say. It didn't work because we had so much evidence that showed the truth, which was opposite of what they

were saying. But that's why in a normal grand jury situation, you don't want witness one to know what witness two said because you want witness one to testify from their own best memory. And if it happens to be the same, well then either they are telling the truth, both of them, or they pre-agreed to say that. So this is a normal routine way of proceeding. There is nothing wrong with it. It is completely appropriate and proper. Yeah, and then I remember too that even during the when they were questioning Mueller in Congress that there were Republicans, I specifically remember the Republican from Wisconsin

actually trying to say that the grand jury is, you know, wasn't fair because they didn't allow cross-examinations and things that come up in a trial and don't come up in an investigation. So I think it's just an interesting talking point they keep trying to push to maybe cloud the legitimacy of of the of the process well unfortunately application and delay and diversion are what they have because the facts and the law are against them

so they have to try to get you off the facts and off the law. And the problem is there is a certain group of people who follow McCarthy, the president, who follow Fox News, who will only hear, this is an unfair process. He's being denied his due process rights. They aren't going to hear the truth, which is, this is the same process that was used

toward Democratic President Bill Clinton. The same process that was used or Richard Nixon, they won't know the facts. They will believe the phony, baloney, that's being put out by the Republicans. And that is the danger, is that you have this ridiculous nonsense being spewed that will be believed and it won't be rebutted. Did you have this during Watergate was there a group of Nixon supporters, hardcore Nixon

supporters that were obviscating the facts and coming out with this whole sort of counter narrative? Yes, and there was the same there was same accusations of itself which hunt uh... that's not invented by donald trump but yes i mean we had witnesses now it during watergate we have to go back the senate started investigating

what had happened and what laws needed to be changed we could prevent it from happening again. That was at the same time as we were appointed, the Senate started having the Senate hearings under Senator Irvin. And it wasn't until much later that the House Judiciary Committee got involved. That was after, after the, now I'm not exactly sure the date they first started, but it really revs up. In March, we, the prosecution got permission from

the courts to turn over a road map of our evidence so that they didn't have to reinvent things. They were able to take our road roadmap of evidence. We gave them transcripts of tape recordings. We gave them the tapes themselves. We gave them a list of areas that they should be looking at. And they did that. And that's how it proceeded from there. During Watergate, of course, the cover-up was the big thing. And the cover-up included a distinct plan to commit perjury and to subborn perjury to get other people to commit perjury. That's what subordinate perjury is. Saying to somebody else, oh, you could always say, I don't remember, I don't recall when,

in fact, you really do. That's perjury when you do that and telling someone to say i don't recall is subordinate perjury and so you had for example during the senator and you had john deen testifying very brilliantly and correctly and then you had hall demand denying everything he said all the most achieved that you had a real equipment who is a chief domestic advisor denying everything. You had Mitchell who was the attorney general denying everything and all of those went to jail for their lives because they were denying it. But in the beginning, during the first part of the hearing, if you had taken a vote, the American people were giving the benefit of the doubt to the president they believed alderman airlockman and michael

they did not believe john deen but then we got the tapes we found out from alixan their butterfield there was a taping system we subpoenaed tapes we got them and they corroborated everything that john deen said proving that everything contrary to that was a lie and that was a significant turning point. And here you have the same sort of smoking gun evidence because you have, for example,

all the denials that anything wrong happened in the conversation with Zolinsky and Trump. And then you read what the transcript is. I was at a radio show where a caller who is a Trump supporter accused me of misrepresenting when I was reading from the phone call itself. I was reading what the president released as the truth. It said, I need a favor though. That's not a lie. That's not a misrepresentation.

That's what a lie. That's not a misrepresentation. That's what he said. Now, you might be able to argue that it isn't really asking for something that he's not entitled to and pressuring the Ukrainian president. But I would argue that you cannot interpret it any other way. So, the bottom line is, yes, we had the same thing in Watergate and it was overcome by the facts, by the truth and by tape recordings. And here, although so far we don't know of a recording of this call, we had a transcript or as close to a transcript as we could possibly get. And so let's just go with that.

And again, that goes back to why Nancy Pelosi is focusing in on something that is clear and simple and easy and not rebuttable by any facts that they're trying to put out. Yeah, I guess that must have been the straw that broke the back then was when Trump himself released the memo of the transcript of the call which is the equivalent of the Nixon tapes. Exactly, and remember, the worst tape was pre-released by the White House, and that's the June 23rd, what's known as a smoking gun tape, in which the President and Holderman are discussing using the CIA to stop the FBI on a false claim of national security, saying they didn't want them following the money. And the reason they didn't is because the $100 bills that were found on the burglars when

they were arrested inside the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate were easily traceable to a campaign check that had been deposited to one of the burglar's bank accounts in Florida. And that would have shown on the day of the arrest that the committee to reelect the president had paid the burglar's and was behind the burglar. And that would have eliminated any possible argument that the White House was making that this was a third-rate burglary. And by the way that that sound familiar, the president calling Nancy Pelosi a third rate politician. This was called a third rate burglary by the White House. And that would have eliminated that.

They claimed the burglars were off on a lock of their own and had nothing to do with them. When in fact, one of the burglars was the security chief of the committee to reelect the president. And it turned out that people who worked in the White House and worked for the campaign were all part of the planning of this Howard Hunt and Gordon Litty specifically. But the attorney general also.

And I think we're going to find out similar things about all of the similar type people in the Trump administration. So it is very similar. Yeah, well, there's just so many parallels we could we could go on forever, but I do got to let you go. I know you've got other things coming up and we're looking forward to seeing you at Politico next weekend. I look forward to seeing you in person. It'll be a pleasure. All right, everybody, former Watergate prosecutor and MSNBC contribute your extraordinary gel wine banks. Thanks again so much, Jill, former Watergate prosecutor and MSNBC contribute your extraordinary

gel wine banks. Thanks again so much, Jill, for joining us. Thank you. All right, welcome back. Thank you guys so much. And thanks to gel wine banks, I can't wait to see her at Politicon. And I can't wait to see you guys at Politicon. Yeah, I'm so excited.

It's going to be fun. First time in Nashville. There was a bunch of, you know, right wing douchebags there, but you can ignore them and hang out with the rad people. We should have like a molarullercon at some point, where it's just awesome people. But yeah, apparently we're gonna be the same building with like Tommy Lauren and Sean Hannity.

Yeah, but we're also gonna be this, and Komi will be there too. And probably Chris Christie. But then you know, you get awesome people like, mile, wily. Let's meet at the Komi there. Yes, eight feet tall. Meet at the Komi.

Meet me at the Komi. Apparently he's just doing one event and then running away. I thought he was supposed to be coming out and doing all this stuff to like try to help us, but not us, I guess, just whatever panel he's going to be on, I'll go see it probably just so I can y'all questions maybe? No, I don't want to get kicked out, but it's going to be, it's always fun, it's always a good time. You grab a tour towards the people that are awesome. And then again, Boston, November 7th, and that's our last show for the year.

So, or our last live show for the year. Yes. We will still be doing the things from airplane bathrooms as necessary. So, you know, stick around for that. Any final thoughts? No, it's a great, thanks for having me on the show today. Yeah, thank you.

Mr. Jordan will be back tomorrow on the beans. Yep. Sure. And we do really appreciate all of you for listening and thanks to our patrons and thanks to everyone. And seriously take care of yourselves and take care of each other. I've been AG. I've been Andy Reader.

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