Jack - Ding Dong the Dick's Disbarred (feat: Jennifer Cohn)

Episode Date: May 13, 2019

S3E19 - Joining us this week is Jennifer Cohn! Plus We dig into a letter signed by former federal prosecutors regarding the charges against Trump in the Mueller report, Jordan has an update on Maria Butina, and Jaleesa talks about a case involving Michael Cohen, Tom Arnold and Jerry Fallwell jr.

Hi, I'm Harry Lickman, host of Talking Feds. Around table, the brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day. Each Monday, I'm joined by a slate of Feds favorites at new voices to break down the headlines and give the insider's view of what's going on in Washington and beyond. Plus, sidebar is explaining important legal concepts read by your favorite celebrities. Find talking feds wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks to third love for supporting Mollarshi Road. Third love knows there's a perfect

broth for everyone, so right now they're offering our listeners 15% off your first order. Go to thirdlove.com slash AG to find yours today. And thanks to NUME for supporting Mollarshi Road. Getting in shape isn't just about losing weight, it's about learning healthier habits and feeling better about yourself. NUM helps us learn how to develop new relationships with food. Sign up for your trial today at NUMNOM.com slash AG.

And thanks to Sage Lee Naturals for supporting Mueller, she wrote, Sage Lee Naturals has superior standards for quality and ensures all their CBD products are completely THC-free. Sage Lee Naturals has me feeling like my best self. Get 20% off your first order at sage Lee Naturals.com slash AG. This is Greg Olyar, the author of Dirty Rubles, and you're listening to Mueller clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said.

That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign And I didn't have not have communications with the Russians What do I have to get involved with Putin for having nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me Russia if you're listening I hope you're able to find the 30,000

emails that are missing So it is political you're a communist the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red hairline. Like all members of the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist.

APPLAUSE Hello and welcome to Mollarshi Road. I'm your host A.G. And with me, as always, are Jalisa Johnson. Hello. And Jordan Coburn. Hello. We are in New York at a kind patrons recording studio having an amazing time Last night was great. We met up with a bunch of our patrons at the Bleaker Street bar

Thanks to all you guys. It was so great meeting you. Yes, and thank you to our patron who suggested that bar It was perfect and thanks to Dan for making the shirt. Yes, and the magazine the AOC comic book that we received Yeah, I didn't get to meet that patron, but oh my gosh, that's amazing. Yeah, and that's her district Wow, yeah, I think that lady who was the bartender came in it. That's as she's in AOC's district Oh, I love that and she's just like delighted and so happy to have AOC representing her In Congress and then and Dan made the shirt for me. It says, we the people care. It was a play on Melania's jacket. Yeah, I don't really care.

Oh, that makes so much sense. I didn't catch that one. But it resumed in the same font as you would see. Yes, the we the people. That's so good. Yeah, it was really great. It was so great meeting everybody. I thought maybe one or two people would show up.

There was like 15 to 20 people. It was a solid gang. Yes, guagles for sure. We brought pizza. We had lots of beer. We had laughs. We cried. Yes. We smoked weed on the streets together. We smoked weed on the streets together. Not AG though. No, no, no. And that is real and not a lie. No. And I mean that. And the more I say that, the more it sounds like a lie. Yeah. But I'm serious.

I sense the authenticity. Yeah. I mean, we know the truth. We do. Which is how it matters to me., we know the truth. We do. Which is awesome. That's awesome. You guys know the truth. We just recorded our five word speech. That went amazingly well. And this awesome, Beardy Fellow took some wonderful photos of us. I saw him walk down the hall and I'm like,

that is the most, that is the best beard I've ever seen. Everyone's so cool out here. Everyone looks cool. Like, I've had great experiences. Yeah, I don't feel cool enough for New York, but it's awesome here. I never once just so kind. It's seriously the coolest thing I've had great experiences. Yeah, I don't feel cool enough for New York, but it's awesome here. I never once just so kind. It's seriously the coolest thing I've ever done in my life. And I've done a lot of cool shit. So this is so, this is, well, you know, in my marriage.

Yes, right. The second one though. Yeah, well, that's right. Yeah. Not the first one, so much. You've seen some things, man. You've lived a full life. Been around, man. We've got a lot of news this week, a lot of really good news, and then some not-so-great news, but we'll cover it all for you. Jordan, you're going to be going over in an interview with the devil's mermaid, Maria Bhutna. And Jalisa, you have a neat escapade involving Jerry Falwell, Jr. and how the asshole doesn't fall far

from the tree. Yes. I have a story tonight about the never-ending obstruction of justice. And for the interview, oh, this is so cool. We're joined by election security advocate. She's an expert at this. Attorney, she's an attorney, she's a writer.

And I've been wanting to speak with her for a long time. Ever since we started wondering if the actual vote was hacked and manipulated, it's Jennifer Cohn. So definitely stick around for the interview, Jay. It'd be really glad that you did. San Diego folks will be doing a live show Sunday, May 19th, at 4 p.m. grab your tickets by visiting the San Diego Comedy Festival website. I believe there's a VIP meet and greet.

Should be a lot of fun, we'd love to see you. We also have Minneapolis June 14th. There are still tickets available for that. And stay tuned for our forthcoming full-length series covering the Mueller Report, page by page with context and space beans and all the information you'll need to understand exactly what it says. We're not just reading it to you. We're giving you that full curatorial context and

I think that that's really important. But you know, we've been doing this for 18 months and I think we've got a pretty good grasp on all of the context that falls in those pages. We can read between the lines pretty well. Patrons are getting those early and add free and assisting with additional theories and corrections. If you'd like to be a patron and do that you can head to patreon.com slash mullershie wrote and sign up Guys, we have a big show this week. So let's get started with my favorite new segment corrections Sorry Well, the judge shot the fuck up. All right guys first we have a musical correction from the daily update called Jordan's butt stuff She started singing a tune that I said was a morning tune, but it turns out the pieces

Prelude to the afternoon of a fawn. So it's an afternoon tune Afternoon delight. Yeah, these are the kinds of things that make this my favorite segment that someone picked up on that tune is awesome I think it's to be you see but now I'll maybe get another correction But it just shows that together we know everything. Yes. So that's a cool slogan together. We know everything. Yeah, that should have been our five word speech Damn it. All right, four. That's four. Oh man. Everything seriously together. We know everything dude That's four. Oh man. Seriously. Together we know everything, dude.

Just add a dude's at the end, because that encompasses everyone. Yes. On first. That's sorry. That's such a wrong statement though, together we know everything. I know. I thought it was a joke. I'm sorry.

We're not serious guys. We're not actually serious. Well, I was thinking like that. No one would get a vote slogan or something. But really, when we all come together, it just is a huge cluster of fun. We know nothing. But more you know, the less you know, right?

Oh yeah. No, I just simply mean that between the three of us and all of our fanbase, together, I think we know everything. Yes, yes. That we can know, that's knowable. But that's probably also not true. Yeah, if we could explode the microcosm of the community that we have into the entire voting electorate, that would be the best.

Right? We don't believe where we are. No. Yeah. And we be imposing our beliefs, which I guess is what we do anyway. So that's fine. Yeah. That's fine. Just kidding. Yeah, I'm all for a Leviathan. That's like someone that actually knows what the hell they're doing. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Let's see on Thursday's Daily Update, we gave a shout out to one of our favorite shows, Drunk History.

And this was less of a correction and more of a fill in the gap situation. So drunk history's season two episode two was called New York City And it was about civil lettington the real Paul revere or at least another Paul revere So we were close a white guy took the glory away from a disenfranchised person, but it was a woman and not a black guy right right so and I had a feeling it was some minority of some sort. Yeah, not a white fellow Right, right and what was cool is one of the co-producers of Drunk History reached out to tell us that. Very cool. Thank you for that. Excellent show. If you haven't seen it, you have to watch it. It's so good. Have you gotten drunk, watching Drunk History? I've gotten high. I've had stoned future. High-conspiracy. So future.

Have you, great show? Just at least sitting on a couch. Just talking about future history. Get you a whiteboard. But it's the near future, like 15 minutes from now. I'm gonna get really in depth about the next 15 minutes. Okay, the near future, I see. Stone near future. I like it. And regarding why Brad comes first in brand gelina,

it's not a gender thing as we suspected. It's a linguistics thing as we suspected. We suspected it was a linguistics. I don't know we I don't know we I thought it was a little sexist I was like why is Brad first yeah the picture he is still real yes magnaumostakes this was a turning point for you this is what you're over the end this can't be your main argument and blue of blues clues is a girl and magenta is a boy that That changed my whole world. Break in gender norms.

Yeah, that's awesome. I'm shook. Yeah, you shook. Yeah, yeah. Also in a recent daily beans, we had a sobering discussion on the Kemp Signs, Six-Week Feetal Heart Beat Bill in Georgia. And it probably came off like we were really like singling out the South as a bunch of A-holes. But I wanted to clarify, that's not how we feel about the South.

Julius was from the South. Yeah, just my family. I've been to Florida, just how we feel about the South. Julius is from the South. Yeah, just my family. I've been to Florida. Just your family. Yeah, yeah. I've been to Florida, Georgia, Mississippi, Texas, Louisiana, Tennessee. I've loved every place I've ever been. The South has come a long way.

And we saw that in the 2018 midterms and some of the subsequent special elections. It's vibrant, diverse, it's amazing. It's an amazing part of the country. And I just wanted to make sure everyone knows how we feel in case it wasn't clear. Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's similar to how when you say, when we talk about these indictments on white people or we'll say something like, oh, that's so white, you know, it's like, it's an indictment on this concept of whiteness, not just being white makes you this person

and encapsulates all of these really shitty things. That's a very good point. And I think when it comes to whiteness versus blackness, historically in America, I feel more comfortable making fun of the whiteness because blackness, historically in America, I feel more comfortable making fun of the whiteness because it's like, well, you had a leg up, so it'd be different if you were more than fair for you to say whatever the fuck you were going to say.

Yeah, if I honestly, if you were men, you enslaved me, like that would be, yeah, fair, fair. But yeah, it's different. It's the fair, it's good. So it's for the goose, right? Yeah. So this is South Nis. Yeah, South Nis.

We're talking about South Nis. There we go. Yeah, it's yes. Let's see, the Amaluments clause was inspired by Ben Franklin with a fancy portrait or snuff box from King Louis XVI, not King George, my bad. Actual correction, historical correction. So thank you.

Missed that episode of Drunk History. Also, Jeffrey Epstein didn't do time in federal prison, as I had thought. He was in a private wing of the Palm Beach County jail. Of course. Oh. And we were talking about whether inmates can write books. Someone wrote to us and they said they are provided

with writing supplies and postage because they need to be able to prepare legal correspondence or documents. Otherwise, they can purchase notebooks and writing utensils, even typewriters, using their prison funds, but they don't have, you generally, a lot of prison funds. But yeah, I was reminded of that movie about

Marquita Saad, how he's in his jail cell using, I think, either blood or feet, some bodily fluid, yeah, and writing on sheets. Something not sheet, pointy. And he was writing all of his sadist novels in prison that way. Oh, teach their own. Yeah, very on brand. At least he's consistent. Yes, yes. We expect nothing different. I wouldn't say less, but nothing different.

Then we have the great color debate of 2019. As it turns out, Jalisa and I were both right. For pigment, there are three primary colors, blue, yellow, and red. For printing, magenta is a primary color as CMYK. For light, RGB is used, and that combo of all three is white. From an email we got from an art director in Canada named Bree. She said, Jelisa's right, on the two kinds of colors, additive and subtractive.

Additive is anything, emitting light, subtractive is for paints and ink, because it's on a surface. And because it's on a surface, our ability to see it is only possible with light reflecting off of it, which is what I was saying. Which is why everything looks great at night, because there's no light. AGE, you were talking about subtractive color that can be broken into two segments, printing and pigments for printing. It's CMYK, cyan, magenta, yellow, and black. Black, yes. For paints, it's red, blue, and yellow.

Absence of all colors is white, overlapping them all is black. Jalisa was right in additive color, all colors combined are white, but magenta is not primary in that mode. AG was right that for pigments and paints, the primaries are blue, red and yellow, because they can't be created by mixing colors. Exactly, yeah. But mixing them can create other colors. Secondaries, yes, purple, green and orange.

And then for pigments, magenta is tertiary. But for printing, it functions as a primary in place of red and cyan in place of blue, because otherwise the print press went overlapping the colors, the mix would get too dark. How crazy is this? Isn't that nuts? I love it so much about colors.

I feel like I'm in second grade again. Right, that's an in 10 second grade class. I feel like there's Molar Junkies listening to this podcast like, I don't give a fuck about true. But what makes me think about our eyes and the fact that they are such incredible cameras that they're the most advanced technology we can't even make cameras as good as our eyes. Unless you fact that they are such incredible cameras that they're the most like

advanced technology we can't even make cameras because it is our eyes. Unless you have eyes like me, I'm actually really bad, yeah, I'm blind. And then you do the whole perception, you add perception into it, you know that whole where you sit around stone when you're in high school and go, is blue the same for you? Yeah, yeah, you'll never know. And you know what, now that I mentioned it, we do make cameras better than it, it's depending on what you're going for. You can't zoom in with your eyes, yeah. No, I totally agree with you. But the natural design of our eyes and just our everything, it's like, damn nature.

Don't even give a shit on our nose though. Oh, nose. They don't even know how our nose works. They don't know. I think they know kind of. I think they know. But we would magenta them. When I was in school, they were like, we don't know.

That's just what they taught us. Well, I don't know if that's still the case. We don't know what consciousness is really, we don't know what love really is besides like, the chemical stuff. I'm sorry. No, don't be sorry. No, that wasn't a referendum on what you were saying.

I'm just like, it's crazy. Dude, it's been an hour out of philosophical podcasts, but we do have mollernous, this week. Stone future. We're gonna make the topic. I like stone future. I think this is probably one of make the topic. I like stoned future. Yeah. I think this is probably one of your best ideas and I think you should run with it.

Nice. I think that'd be a great I would watch that. All right. Yeah. Now. Yeah. Let's see. Also, I had spoken to and I didn't mean to cut you off. I hope you don't think I was kind of you. No, you're right. We're Mullen's hero. We're not funny. I know what I've said. Full of soft. Yeah. Yeah. We're fine. We're fine. And this point, whoever was gonna write a

review already did. Yeah. So whatever. You're right. The already sent it. Yeah point, whoever was going to write a review already did. Yeah. So you're whatever. You're right. The already sent it. Yeah. There goes three long stars. I can feel it. Yeah. Also, I had spoken about shift hiring Fallon,

but I said it was for the judiciary. And shift, of course, is the intelligence committee. That's a lawyer, a financial crimes expert, I think. So it was the intelligence committee, not the judiciary. All right. Those are the corrections for this week. Help us be better and please email us at helloatmolorshear.com and we will get it right eventually.

All right, guys, it's time for the news. Let's jump in with just the facts. All right, guys, we had another long week of cage matches between Congress and the White House. We can start with bar refusing to appear last Thursday before the House because he didn't like the format of having staff counsel question him. That was the chicken incident, and which we supported. Our friends at the Daily Show and John Oliver disagree, but I think only because it just

was a stupid joke as far as jokes go. It was a dad joke, but I'm glad that Congress is loosening up and just getting to the fact that he is a chicken. Yeah. And when I say our friends at the Daily Show and John Oliver, I mean, we don't actually know anyone on those shows. Right, right. Well, after bar was a no show, Jerry Nabler threatened to hold bar and contempt to which bar said, hey, bro, relax, give us some more time.

Let's hug it out. I'm paraphrasing. But of course, that was just a delay tactic. And Nabler knew that because he never canceled the contempt vote, which took place Wednesday, and passed along party lines, I think 24 to 16. But only after the White House announced they were asserting executive privilege over the Mueller report, the whole thing.

Now, normally, once the committee approves contempt, this would then go to a full vote in the House. But Nancy Pelosi is saying, let's hang back a minute. We have a few more possible contempt votes coming up, and I think we could address the entirety of the effect of the obstruction from the White House if we vote on them all at once. So if you want to be in contempt, take a number.

Ha ha ha! Up first, after bar, is Don McGann. Don McGann has missed or will miss two subpoena deadlines, May 7 for documents and May 21 for testimony, because the White House has told him not to comply. So we need to hold him in contempt. Next is Steve, which is what I've decided to call Steve Manuchin because he hates it when people call him Steve.

He goes, oh, Steve. Steve. I think it's Steve from Sex and the City whenever you say that, just the guy that's like, mmm, yeah, yeah. This is a nerd-ass dude. Steve. Steve, tell you that. What he got to do with this. What kind of repping name is Steve? Steve. Steve.

And the Trump, not just Steve, but the Trump-installed IRS commissioner Charles Reddick, who we've been talking about. They've both been asking for Trump's, They've both been asking for Trump's taxes. They've delayed and then refused saying, we're not gonna. So Richard Neal of the House Ways and Means Committee subpoenaed both of them giving them until May 17th. That's this week.

And they could be held in contempt if they don't comply. Remember, we've been talking about why all these steps are necessary. You know, subpoena ask twice, subpoena twice. Yes. Get a nullier ducks in a necessary. Sapina asked twice. Sapina, Sapina twice. Get all your ducks in a row. Change your dad line. Get all your chickens in a row. And that's to show due diligence, right?

And as it turned out, when asked this week, why Richard Neal went with Sapinas and not straight to court, he said that House Council had advised him that the Sapina step would help him build a stronger case. So high five, ladies, we were correct. Hell yes. Beans come true. If the subpoenas are ignored, they can take the contempt vote, but also the House Council would ask the Speaker of the House to authorize court action. And then the Speaker can have either a full House vote on it or give it to the bipartisan

legal advisory group, which is comprised of three Democrats and two assholes. And they can authorize, I'm sorry, Republicans, and they can authorize any court action through that group on a three to two vote. So this is underground Congress jail. Or a fine which is just kidding. I just like that image. This is a really good test for America to see if we are going to jail privileged people hold a mature account.

Exactly. And there's not actually a prison underneath Congress, but there is a holding cell. So they could actually- They could literally hold him in contempt. Okay, so some of the losers are shitting the courtroom. What are you doing? I'm holding you in contempt. It'll be okay. Hold me in contempt. Again, we recommend contempt and fines as part of that due diligence. Quote, we have done every possible thing we could do to compel compliance before we brought it to court, basically. But wait, some great news out of New York, where we are right now.

The state in this bitch, yeah, we are in this New York. The land of crimes. The land of crimeers. The state senate voted on two huge bills this week here in New York. The first one they passed is the one we've been talking about forever. The one that closes that double jeopardy loophole and allows for an exemption to prosecute a state crime when a federal crime is pardoned. Yes, back in the Schneider-Mintimes.

Yeah. By a president, pardon by a president, when there's a conflict of interest, and there will be awesome. And then they pass a bill that allows the state to hand over tax-dreat, state tax returns to the House Ways and Means Committee, the Senate Finance Committee, or the Joint Committee on Taxation. So one way or another, whether it's through MazeR's Friendly Sapena, which we'll talk about, New York State, and these two bills, because the assembly will pass these bills, and Cuomo will sign them

He hates Trump or a Buzzfeed foyer request or holding IRS and Steve in contempt We're getting the taxes. Yeah, and it's not gonna take years. New York is killing it. Yeah Yeah, they're leading the giant for this like the biggest badass to yeah, yeah, cuz we always say we always say the arc of history Is long but it bends towards justice and we had modified that to say the arc of justice is long but it bends toward the center district of New York. Yeah, it's true. Up next and then that's federal but also state. Yeah, NDC is killing it too. The East Coast really. The Tricia James, New York, New York Attorney General, state, AG, amazing woman. Incredible. Up next at the contempt deli is Mueller. The House Judiciary has been in talks with main justice to have Mueller testify for a few weeks now and they've had a preliminary date of

May 15th set but that's not going to happen. However, I doubt they would hold Mueller in contempt. They would likely subpoena Mueller and if Barr somehow keeps him employed at the Department of Justice, he was supposed to leave like a month ago. And if he keeps dicking around and setting and not setting a date, even though he said he's publicly has no objection to Mueller testifying, I believe Congress would hold him in contempt a second time. Interesting. Right? Yeah. And I wonder, you know, because I said $50,000 a day. Shift is saying $25,000 a day. But if you're

held in contempt twice, is it $50,000? Yeah. I say yes. Matthew like that sometimes. Happily. So we have Mueller McGann, Steve, Charles Reddig, probably Barr at second time, all at for contempt charges in the house, and they're talking about voting on this as a whole package. And Swalwell spoke this week about assembling

a contempt subcommittee to handle all the obstruction. Oh my god. All of which just builds a stronger case for impeachment, right? And not just because one of the articles against Nixon was obstruction for defying congressional oversight, but because Pelosi and Schiff are already sort of acknowledging that if they open an impeachment inquiry, it sure would be a heck of a lot easier to get all these materials they need such as the full Mueller report, the underlying evidence, the tax returns, all the grand jury material under 6e,

not to mention a stronger legal argument for all the subpoenas that they've been issuing. And Mato even talked about that this week. And it's great to see on mainstream media. This has been our position for a while. I believe we brought it up weeks ago. If they just opened an inquiry, not full impeachment hearings, just an inquiry, it would be able to establish

the judicial proceeding needed to get their hands on evidence expeditiously. So it's really nice to hear shift Pelosi and Maddo broach the subject finally. Yes, definitely. And I think bundling them together is a good thing to do just in terms of precedent because this is going to keep happening over and over again. So it's like, let's just get a big old package together and we'll just lay out how it's going to go down with this continues to happen. Which it definitely will. Big old contempt obstruction package. And that way when you draft the article of impeachment and we'll just lay out on it. How it's gonna go down with this continues to happen, which it definitely will. Big ol' contempt obstruction package.

And that way when you draft the article of impeachment for this, you have all of these steps individually, and then all together is one thing, and it just makes your case that much stronger. It's like a care package or like an eye care package. The Senate will never vote for it, but I mean, it's a good package.

It's a good intention, it's something. Yep. Let's see what else. This week, more voices began speaking the words impeachment, including shift, Pelosi and Mato, who, like we just said, indicated, as we have been, if you open that impeachment inquiry, you don't have to actually impeach,

could make it a lot easier to get those materials. Elijah Cummings had a great idea for House Oversight. He's threatening to block the salaries of interior department officials in their investigation into whether the secretary of the interior David Bernhardt is complying with record keeping laws. So he's gonna block their salaries if they don't. Do you miss with their money and shit gets real? Yeah, exactly. And one last little gem this week about Steve. The New York Attorney General, Leticia James, has filed a lawsuit on her own against Steve

and the IRS for failure to hand over documents from a FOIA request she made last October. The FOIA request was for information surrounding the decision to change the policy last July, making it totally legal and totally cool for 501 C4 organizations such as the NRA to not have to report the identities of their large dark money donors. In the lawsuit, Tish James says, quote, my office depends on these critical donor disclosure forms to be able to adequately oversee nonprofit organizations in New York. Not only was the policy change made without notice, the Treasury and the IRS are now refusing

to comply with the law to release information about the rationale for these changes. So the FOIA and the lawsuit were filed jointly with the Attorney General of New Jersey. I imagine this case is called something like the people versus Steve. Yeah. I love it. Steve. It also reminds you of that episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm when Larry goes to donate something,

but he wants to be called anonymous or like, or someone else wants to be, sorry, no, fucking this up, someone else wants to be called anonymous and then he also wants to get the credit though and tell everybody that he was anonymous. Like, he's an anonymous anonymous toner. It's like going around like it's like a defeat to purpose. I've been on life pieces too.

Yes, yeah, I love that. So maybe that's just why they don't want to reveal their names. You know, it's just a it's a pride thing. Oh, yeah, they want to be humble donors to the great cause of rifles in America. That's it. Rifles in America that's it yeah right falls in America yeah are I a my new lobbying group join today the individual retirement yes one last little subpoena guys tiny one this week the senate intelligence

committee what we have always referred to as the most bipartisan of all the investigative committees in either houses of con either house of congress along with the ranking member of that committee have subpoena donald trump jr. to have him come back and answer some more questions and i know i know none of you trust bar especially after the re or burr excuse me yeah especially after the revelation in the muller report that he ran to the white house to tell them about you know what was in that fb i briefing uh... on the investigation into Trump that gang of eight briefing. That Komi gave?

I think so, yeah. But this is good news, you guys. Junior will likely defy the subpoena on some sort of privilege, probably white privilege. And then the sentence, excuse me, I'm white. Your honor. Just point it his face. I rest my case.

I rest my case. His teeth, he's got capital gums and lowercase teeth. Aw. See, be cute if you were a good person, you know? Yeah, it's just not. I have big gums. I do too. So do my mom.

I feel like when it comes to judging people's appearances, it depends on who they are as a person. If they're bad, then I can think a hot person is ugly. Yeah. Yeah, my brain just adjusts to that. I just read that on Twitter. Capital gum and lowercase teeth. That's adorable.

Conan said William Barr looks like a toad with a glutein allergy oh my khanan or that little kid on the dinosaur show from the eighties anyway uh... you he exerted white privilege done junior uh... the senate will likely not hold him in contempt because it's the senate but for republican led committee to subpoena him

in the senate based on a potential perjury charge about Trump Tower Moscow will bolster any similar action by the House. Think about this. Let's say the House subpoena's him, right? Which I'm sure they will, along with Felix Seder, who also lied about Trump Tower Moscow. Let's say Junior refuses or defies that subpoena. They hold him in contempt, go to court to compel him to appear. They can say, hey, it's not just us.

The Senate did too. and that's a republican led uh... committee so yeah now granted will probably plead the fifth at that point but congress is taking steps it must per the constitution to provide this oversight not taking these steps would be catastrophic toward democracy because it would signal that we don't bother holding anyone accountable yeah and you can't i mean there's such a long list of people that have given false statements to Congress at this point.

So I'm hoping that this is the start of something where Republicans actually hold everybody accountable in that regard, because we've been so frustrated because of that lack of a precedent to refer people in a congressional hearing to the FBI for an actual investigation into, you know, perjury, right? That's what we're learning of the threat by Andrew McCabe.

And so this is nice, because it's like, yeah, at least bring them back and be like, hey, what was up with that? Yeah. Is hashtag perjury too long to get this campaign started? It's just perjury has become so normal. I guess like in all cases, like maybe there's, I just feel like poor people wouldn't be allowed

to get away with that. Like lying to Congress. They wouldn't even listen to get away with that. Like, you're lying to Congress? They wouldn't even listen to what they were saying in the first place. They wouldn't even catch them on their lie. You're like, yeah, yeah, whatever. Jail forever. Yeah, Jail forever for you. That's what judges sound like. But yeah, you're right. They wouldn't be able to just do this.

And of course, you know, I mean, Congress will get it. They'll find they lied. They'll make a criminal referral to the Department of Justice, which is run by Billium. Billium bar. Of course, you know, I mean, Congress will get it. They'll find they lied. They'll make a criminal referral to the Department of Justice, which is run by Billion, but Billium. Billium bar. Billium, Billium. Billium. And he won't do shit.

But I mean, at least we've taken the steps. Yeah, I just love how bougie that first name's Billium. Billium. Billium. There's probably billions out there. Oh my gosh. Yeah. And their nickname is Will.

Right, right. Billio is the first definitely. So, Billio has to be Will. Yeah. All right, guys, we'll be right back. Hello, my name is A.G. And I'm obsessed with Third Love. Hi, A.G.

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That's thirdlove.com slash AG for 15% off today. Alright guys, welcome back to just the facts. We only got halfway through there. This week, a group of former federal prosecutors signed a letter saying that if Trump weren't president, he would be prosecuted and convicted of obstruction of justice. He's a felon. And I really want to get this whole letter out to the public, so I'm just going to read it. We are former federal prosecutors. We served under both Republican and Democratic administrations at different levels of the

federal system. As line attorneys, supervisors, special prosecutors, United States attorneys, and senior officials of the Department of Justice, the offices in which we served were small, medium, and large, urban, suburban, and rural, and were located in all parts of our country. Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in special counsel Robert Mueller's report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against inditing a sitting president, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice.

Wow! The Mueller report described several acts that satisfy all of the elements for an obstruction charge, conduct that obstructed or attempted to obstruct the truth-finding process, as to which the evidence of the corrupt intent and connection depending proceedings is overwhelming. These include the President's efforts to fire Mueller and falsify evidence about that effort. The President's effort to limit the scope of Mueller's investigation to exclude his conduct, that's the one they're like, only you can only look at future crimes.

Yeah, to court the courtaloon Dasky. It's a good question. The private citizen going to tell him, the Mueller want his scope now is. Crime from the future. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, future crimes. And the president's efforts to prevent witnesses from cooperating with investigators

probing him and his campaign, probing him grows. Attempts to fire Mueller and then create false evidence. This is part two of the letter here. Despite being advised by then White House counsel Don McGahn that he could face legal jeopardy for doing so, Trump directed McGahn on multiple occasions to fire Mueller or to gin up false conflicts of interest as a pretext for getting rid of the special counsel. When these acts began to come into public view, Trump made, quote, repeated efforts to have McGahn deny the story.

Unquote, going so far as to tell McGahn to write a letter for our files, falsely denying that Trump had directed Mueller's termination. That's insane. deny the story." Ending the investigation. This is obstruction in its most literal sense. You're firing the special investigator. Directing the creation of false government records in order to prevent or discredit truthful testimony is similarly unlawful. The special counsel report states, quote, substantial evidence indicates that repeatedly urging McGann to dispute that he was ordered to have special counsel terminated the president acted for the purpose of influencing McGann's account in order to deflect or prevent scrutiny of the president's conduct toward any investigation. Toward the investigation.

All right, part two here. Attempts to limit the Mueller investigation. This is the best part. The report describes multiple efforts by the president to curtail the scope of the special counsel's investigation. East Taw is like talking to the third person. Right. My investigation.

First, the president repeatedly pressured then Attorney General Jeff Sessions to reverse his legally mandated decision to recuse himself from the investigation. The president's stated reason was that he wanted the Attorney General who would protect him, including from the Special Counsel investigation. He also directed then White House Chief of Staff Ryan's previous to fire sessions and previous refused. Second, after McGantle the president, he could not contact Sessions himself to discuss the investigation, Trump went outside the White House, instructing his former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski, douchebag of the 10th degree, to carry, that's not in the report. That's not in the middle of it. That's just real life, yeah.

To carry a demand to Sessions, to direct Mueller, to confine his investigation to future elections. Lewandowski tried and then failed to contact Sessions in private. After a second meeting with Trump, Lewandowski passed and then failed to contact sessions in private. After a second meeting with Trump, Lewandowski passed Trump's message to senior White House official Rick Dearborn, who Lewandowski thought would be a better messenger because of his prior relationship with sessions. Dearborn did not pass along Trump's message. Even these criminally, these dubious dishes, they disperse. Dearborn and Ashburn, like they're the worst. They're still not doing. Well, they just want to benefit off of Trump's ridiculousness.

They don't want to do any work. They don't want to throw a necessary negative attention either. They're smarter than Trump is. But it's amazing to see what Trump is capable of achieving or at least his persistence when he really wants something done, too. He's always claiming that his hand or tie in certain situations, like, oh, we can't do it because someone else is in the way, but when he wants something done, oh, no one gets in his way.

Or at least he tries really hard. Totally. Yeah, he does everything he can. As a reporter, we'll continue in the letter on your point. As a report explains, quote, substantial evidence indicates that the president's efforts to have sessions limit the scope of the special counsel's investigation to future election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the president's and his campaign's conduct.

In other words, just like you said, Julie, the president employed a private citizen to try to get Attorney General to limit the scope of an ongoing investigation into the president and his associates. All of this conduct, trying to control and impede the investigation against the president by leveraging his authority over others, is similar to conduct we have seen charged against other public officials and people in powerful positions. So they've seen it before. And then finally, witness tampering and intimidation.

This section here says the Special Counsel's report establishes that the president tried to influence the decisions of both Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort with regarding to cooperating with investigators, with regard to cooperating with investigators. Yeah, I don't think I'm too. You think about it? With dangling pardons? Yeah. Yeah, some of this tampering and intimidation included the dangling of pardons.

It was done in plain sight via tweets in public statements. Other such behavior was done via private messages through private attorneys, such as Trump Council Rudy Giuliani's message to Cohen's lawyer, that Cohen should sleep well tonight. He's bat-so-nar. To send the messages. He's bat-so-nar. He does sleep so hard.

Like through the cave. Yes, totally. Do we already have a roof about him sleeping by his feet? We have several of them. Oh, yeah. He does a bad boy sonar. Like through the cave. Totally. Do we already have a roof about him sleeping by his feet? We do. We have several. Oh, yeah. He just was eyes just open. So many eyes.

Yeah, somebody else we had Twitter. How does Giuliani sleep at night? I'm like upside down. Yeah. The wings wrap around his face. So funny. And that's offensive to bats, but you know, I think they get the point.

Yeah. So when Rudy Giuliani told Cohen's lawyer that Cohen should sleep well tonight, you have friends and high places, that counts as this. Oh my God, friends and high places. I'm sorry, too easy. Yeah, I know, right, I know. Of course, these aren't the only acts of potential obstruction detailed by the special counsel.

It would be well within the purview of any normal prosecutor's, prosecutorial judgment also to charge other acts detailed in the report. We emphasize that these are not matters of close professional judgment. Of course, there are potential defenses or arguments that could be raised in response to an indictment of the nature we described here.

In our system, every accused person is presumed innocent, and it's always the government's burden to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But to look at these facts and to say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice, the standard set out in the principles of federal prosecution runs counter to logic and our experience.

Absolutely, and the court of public opinion doesn't go by those same rules, so I feel like yeah, he should be criticized for sure. No, yeah, we can, we're podcasting. Yeah. As former federal prosecutors, we recognize that prosecuting obstruction of justice case is critical because unchecked obstruction, which allows intentional interference with criminal investigations to go unpunished, puts our whole system of justice at risk. We believe strongly that, but for that OLC memo, the overwhelming weight of professional judgment would come down in favor of prosecution for the conduct outline in the Mueller report. That's that letter. And over,

I think there are over 800 people who have signed it now. Wow. Yeah. I'm loving this. I know it's a crazy time, but the resistance gives me so much hope. Like, it's just bringing out the best in people when we're faced with the worst. And the pendulum always swings, so, you know, so be it. We're on a very extreme spectrum of the pendulum right now.

And I think it's been like, since Obama was and like really triggered a lot of hateful people. I feel like at least though, before the pendulum was on like one axis, and now it's just starting to just fucking Right the logic physics are being Yeah, just really yeah cuz at least we can actually agree on reporting coming out of like fucking Walter Cronkite shit And now it's like fuck that guy. That's what Republicans would be saying right now. Can you imagine that?

It's crazy. We need another Walter Cronkite to bring us all together. You can be the next one Jordan. Yeah Jordan do it. All right Yeah Alan wants you're in your arm duty. I do. Yeah, I Feel guilt over having one tattoo and it being a white man Well, I like a contract. I would this dude. I'm gonna like I have my shoulder to I like the contract. I'm gonna die with this dude. I'm gonna like I have my shoulder to Like a black eye no matter who I put on That's true Let's see Cohen someone in black face right right. Oh no Guys great news Cohen reported to prison this week and he had he may have had that Hail Mary rabbit out of the hat thing

After all and it involves fall whale junior and Jelisa will have that in hot notes for us. And this week in What the Fuck? We found out Manafort was disbarred, which is pretty much the same time we all found out he was a lawyer. And then all simultaneously confused as to how disbarment isn't fucking automatic when you're convicted of eight felonies. I think they're too backed up with other criminals, right? But I have to be.

That is bananas, but anyhow, ding dong the dick's disbarred. So, yeah. He was suspended since January, I guess. Suspended in January, disbarred just now. I canceled him years ago, so. Yeah, I canceled you. All right, so we already know that the house

is fighting tooth and nail with subpoenas for Trump's tax returns with the IRS and Steve. And everyone is worried this could take forever years, right? We might not get his tax returns until after the election and that's how Trump wants it. But maybe the courts aren't going to go as slow as everyone thinks. In one of the best orders from a judge, I've ever read this week, Judge Mehta, who is over, who's presiding over the Mezar's tax firm case, said that instead of a preliminary injunction hearing on May 14th, followed by additional hearings and maybe permanent injunction

hearings and then trial proceedings, he said under Rule 65, 2A or A2, we're just going to do the entire thing on May 14th. Trial hearing, everything. We have one question to answer and that's whether the congressional subpoena is lawful and we don't need any more talks, no talkie talks. I'm ready to rule. I love this order. If you get a chance, read it and then put some beans on the court ruling against Trump on Tuesday. Yes. Oh no. It's totally happening.

Yes. Oh no. This is why judges need to be not politically motivated at all because they do shit like this. Check that they have on. And if Democrats were doing the same thing and using delay tactics, I would also hope that a judge would apply the same judgment. Absolutely. We do get some Democrat justice a little bit later in the show. You guys are going to be like, what? Okay. It's insane. Let's see, Stone. Here's what's going on with Stone. Right, Stone requested. He's his case is being presided with by Judge Jackson, if you're nasty, Amy Berman, Jackson. Yes. And so he wanted to get the full muller report as part of his discovery, like I need to

get all the evidence against me. Well not only did Judge Jackson say, hang on a minute, settle. I need to see the entire muller report so that I can figure out what's going on. I think pages 41 to 65, all this stuff having to do is stone. And so she so ordered it She ordered it in a minute order give it to me. Mm-hmm. So we'll see she's supposed to get it tomorrow Wow or May 14th 13th Well, that'd be an interesting way to spend mother's day if she gets it today, but oh no

Yeah, no she I we were thought she was gonna be reading it tonight But she's not getting it on Sunday. She gets on Monday So the webbies yeah while we're getting our awards. She'll be reading. Yeah She's gonna be having kind of a more interesting night. We'll have a great night, but that's some juicy stuff. The full Mueller report. Just the stone stuff. Having to do a steal, but all the redacted cards.

The under-adacted, yeah. Mm. And that's an open on going matter. So interesting. Let's see. Giuliani, Batboy. What a douche. He decided he was going to take a trip to Ukraine,

which he called though Ukraine. Oh, I'm going to fuck you again. I guess. I guess. I guess it's not just me. Right. Who makes that mistake when I'm trying to correct? Yeah, you actually give a fuck about correcting it.

I'm trying to come correct. That doesn't make sense. It does. Oh, good. But he wanted to go to Ukraine to work with investigators there to investigate Joe Biden. Exactly. And so basically what it was, is I think Joe Biden's son sat on the board of, what was

the company called, Berezma? Okay. I think it was like a petroleum company or something like that. I could be wrong on the kind of company. But I'm pretty sure it's called Berezma because it sounded like Berezda with an M. Okay. And that's how I remembered it. But he, his son sat on the board of that

and apparently Biden used his power as vice president to get the head prosecutor in Ukraine tossed out because he was investigating something going on with that company that Biden's son was on the board of. Okay. And then everyone went, you can't fucking do that, Giuliani. Right. I'm thinking Logan act ish right because

joe bennons a presidential candidate trump's a presidential candidate he's trump lawyer interfering with an investigation like this to it seems to interfere with the campaign right i don't think it's the logon act because he's part of the administration or at least he's a lawyer and they're in power but it's gotta be some bill it's been good because he's not a government official yeah i'm very confused and he went on and i think it was Fox or something where he was saying, I don't even think that Joe Biden

is gonna be in trouble. He's like, I just think that people need to investigate it now because that it's better than doing it later. But then the same breath, he was like, yeah, this guy needs to go down. He's like, he's not making any sense. Classic Giuliani, but I'm very weirded out by this whole thing. Yeah, I think the law he's breaking

is the one that they were investigating Trump for, which is, or the Trump campaign, which is to get an in kind campaign contribution. Something of value, right? That from a foreign entity that helps your campaign. It's just, you have to find a value for it and you can't be too dumb to realize it's going on, Don Jr.

Exactly. Yeah, I just, I thought it was funny how Giuliani was really trying to convince people that he was doing this in Biden's best interest He was like, yeah, just get this investigation out the way now so you can run for president later What's really good though is Giuliani is a lawyer. He's been a US attorney He knows what mens rea is and he's not too dumb To understand he's committing a crime. They couldn't pull the Don junior on him right right

They just have to make it a thing of value. Yeah, well, I hope that doesn't play out for him. Not that Biden probably isn't guilty of anything like that, but I just find that Rudy's involvement just taints the whole thing for me. Yeah, and a foreign entity as well. Illegal. Yeah. As long as you can assign value to whatever they give you. Which they couldn't do in the Moller report when they got that stuff from the vessel in its guy stuff they couldn't assign value to. And the Hillary emails they could have figured out what you know. Aren't her emails priceless? She's Hillary Clinton. Okay, sorry. What's the status on that actual story of Biden doing that? Do you know? No, I don't know. Because that's not chill. No, it's not chill. But I mean it might

have been nothing. Well what Biden is saying is that they were trying to get rid of that guy anyway because he was a corrupt piece of shit. And that is true. Sure, sure. But whether or not it had anything to do with one of his investigations being a into a company that is board sat Sun sat in the board for yeah, and Rudy being from slayer needs to shut the fuck up about it Even if it is true and let someone else investigate it just pass it along and someone else don't be the face of it Or why wasn't investigated what that seems like a statute of limitations What is he gonna do like land in Ukraine with a tape recorder or something? Just walk around like you're talking to people?

Well, when everyone came out and said you're fucking insane, you can't do that. He canceled his trip. So he's canceled it and but Trump is leaving open the possibility of investigating the Biden's which is Also really weird. Yeah Yeah, so you know for investigating, especially for like his creepy behavior. If people say that they never felt like he assaulted or you know, like I can get a, I can forgive him for being a little touchy-filly. Because that happens. Yeah, but we're saying how rapier you on a scale than Biden to Trump? Exactly. But if there's more to it, then yeah, I'm all for an investigation of things, but Rudy and Trump should not be the ones leading that. Trump called Biden on Twitter,

called him Sleepy Creepy Joe. Sleepy Creepy Joe. That's Biden on Twitter called him sleepy creepy Joe. Sleepy creepy Joe. That's his new or creepy sleepy creepy one. I like sleepy creepy better. Trump is gonna have stuff in the cafeteria now where like Tuesdays are sleepy Joe day. Oh, no. Sleepy Joe is the sleepy Joe. I've themed foods just about his stupid nicknames

for all of his political enemies. Just make everyone in the White House eat them. The White House has a cafeteria, right? I don't know. Maybe not a cafeteria. That's true. They have a snack shack. No, I don't know what they got.

Snack shack. Let's see, there was a great interview between NPR. NPR got an exclusive interview with Devil's Mermaid, Maria Bootner. Jordan's going to go over that later in the show. Guys, we'll be right back with hot notes. Hey, guys, getting in shape isn't just about losing weight and sometimes losing weight has nothing to do with it. It's about learning healthier habits and feeling better whether it's more energy or practicing

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Hot notes Hey guys today Jordan you have a great update on the devil's mermaid, Maria Boutina. But first, Jalisa, Trump's personal attorney and fixer reported to prison this week for a crime he committed with the president. But there's more to the Cohen story this week that meets the eye. And it involves Tom Arnold and Jerry Falwell, Jr. Yeah, this is crazy. So Trump retweeted Falwell, Jr. this week saying he should get an extra two years as president, but apparently that's not all Fallout has been up to.

Apparently Michael Cohen claims to have helped cover up the release of personal and embarrassing photos of the Liberty University president right before he was an or endorsing Trump for president in 2016. So we've got ourselves a little squid pro-crow situation here. I feel like that deserves its own segment now. It's like definitely reoccurring at this point. And the really crazy thing about all this is that apparently we found out about these pictures. I use it apparently a lot.

I'm so sorry guys. It's just, I like to be very like, well, I wasn't there, but apparently. So we found out about these pictures from a March phone call with one of my favorite people, actually, Tom Arle. And I know Tom is a weirdo a little bit, but his investigative reporting of like the whole

Trump Russia thing, it's been one of the best things that come out of his administration. Tom even gave the Washington Post a recording of the whole Trump Russia thing, it's been one of the best things to come out of his administration. Tom even gave the Washington Post a recording of the call with Cohen. So holy shit, it's not like Tom did this without Cohen's permission to. He says that Cohen knows that he's there to help him and their plan all along was to go after fall a little junior as soon as Cohen went to jail. So this is just right up with their agenda.

And in the recording, you can hear Cohen saying, quote, there's a bunch of photographs, you know, personal photographs that somehow the guy ended up getting and the guy he's referring to has yet to be identified. However, they suspect that he was demanding money from the fall wells. So Cohen was hired to threaten to report him to the authorities. And uh, fallalign attorneys deny these claims actually. One of the lawyers said in text message quote, there are no compromising or embarrassing photos of fall well period with an exclamation point. So like period was the word and then he added the exclamation point, which is very suspicious, right? Like no black face pictures. Period exclamation point. No, did pics out there. Yeah, I'm not convinced. Yeah, I know me neither.

Totally. And it's just really interesting because considering that Cohen claims to have a copy of this photo, I'm just like suspecting. He kept one, right? Yeah, just one though. Yeah. The pics have been described as, quote, photos between husband, wife and the whole bit. He also said, I actually have one of the photos, it's terrible. So this is really crazy because-

Like, like, bad focus or just grossing? Oh, yeah, bad lighting totally. Yeah, he's got his bad side. Yeah, exactly. Cohen, his whole side is bad. Oh, it's not Cohen, I'm sorry. And that's really... Oh, well, yeah.

Exactly, yeah. And maybe his wife and I hear a pool boy? I've heard crazy things, but the only thing that seems to be officially on the record is that it's terrible. Yeah. So this is really crazy because Falwell is the same guy who garnered Trump's crucial support from Evangelicos. In fact, he was the one who wrote an essay for the Washington Post that said,

Jesus said, Judge not lest ye be judged, we are all sinners. So yeah, he got Trump pretty much off the hook when that, that, grabbed him by the pussy thing came out. Yeah, so he had that thing and then all of a sudden you get a fall well endorsement and Cohen kept a picture. And now there's a recorded phone call between Tom Arnold and Cohen kept a picture. And now there's a recorded phone call between Tom Arnold and Cohen, that Washington Post has, and I don't wanna see the photo.

But I wanna know what's in it. Exactly. Just describe it to me. That's home. Yeah, not in too much detail though. What position? Yeah, okay. If there was a pool boy involved,

I think this is a great chance for him to switch careers. Yeah. Just take your opportunity. Yeah. Come out and say, you know, I'm done with this evangelical bullshit. I like pool boys. There's nothing wrong with liking pool boys.

And change your life. Nothing wrong with like being open with your wife or whatever. I just don't like the hypocrisy. Yeah, and that's our only problem. Yeah. And I think it is some previous daily episodes is that we are so down for three sims with your pool boy. Yes, yes. Take photos. A whole bit. But then don't run Liberty University and Bash Gays and do all this anti-LGBTQ. And that's from

Has stolen years from his presidency. Stalin years. Right. Stalin years. He spelled stolen wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Just that's what that's about. But yeah, it's very suspicious. All of this lining up the the timeline and yeah, it's so important. It's more like a majority, I'm better than you, family values. Right, right. And then it's like you can't run that. Do Evangelicals, are you allowed to have sex for pleasure in that religion?

I think so, right? Or is that like down upon is like, I mean, I guess existing is just dumb. You know that humans and pigs are apparently the only two species that have sex for pleasure? I guess dolphin to be considered Dolphins are aggressive. They're raping. Yeah, yeah, pigs can have orgasms for up to 30 minutes. I write That's a meme thing. I don't know if that's a hundred percent much to do

Wouldn't that strain your inner? Yeah, you're totally right. Yeah pigs have all the time in the world. Yeah, give me a second or two. I'm good Yeah All right cool the time in the world. Yeah, give me a second or two. I'm good. Yeah. Alright, cool. Interesting story about Falwell Jr. and that endorsement and some squid pro crow. I can't wait to hear again not too many details, but what comes out. What comes out besides Falwell. Definitely.

It comes out in the wash. Alright, Jordan, what's going on with Devil's Mermaid? Yeah, so NPR got an amazing interview. They talked to Maria Bhutna from her detention center, which is in Alexandria right outside Washington, D.C., where she's been detained. So that's pretty insane. Mary Louise Kelly was talking to her, and I really love her as an interviewer.

Yeah, she's really brilliant. She did a great job with this. Anne holds her accountable, and I could sense some like, stank on her questioning, because I think, I don't know, I do not think she was buying her story at all on her questioning, because I think, I don't know, I don't know, I don't not think she was buying her story at all, because her whole, the whole point of this interview on Maria's behalf was to say that everything that's happened has just been a big misunderstanding

to conceive of this all as if it was some grand orchestrated Russian plot and she was a part of it just as everybody else was. That's outlined in the Mueller report and everything is extremely misguided and, you know and unfair. She says that she really loves America and she considers herself like a devout follower of Russia and America. And she was just trying to do peace-building efforts with guns. Yes, with guns. And she says that Russia doesn't really give a shit about guns. They really don don't actually. You know, they don't have a second amendment. Yeah, and anti that. Yes.

And so she was saying the fact that Putin and the Russian government right now is coming out on her behalf saying, Fruity Bhutan is like very surprising to her because they caused that she champions is one that Russia doesn't care about at all. So she not know Putin was the guy she was working for? Yes.

She thought it was a different guy, maybe under Putin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I don't know if she fails to realize that that's how Russia infiltrates American politics is through organizations like the NRA and religious organizations and anti-LGBTQ bussets. Like any country you're bossing is. That's how they get in.

So that's why Russia would have such a seemingly interest, giant interest in the National Rival Association being a non-gun country. Right. It's a new strategy for you. Yeah, the other way to interpret that being, you know, out of place as she's saying it is, is that it was very intentional and very in place.

That's what you could interpret it. That's what you could interpret it. That's exactly why she did it and why they did it. But she says none of her stuff was in the Mueller report And once people get to see the unredacted version or whoever sees it, they would also find that she doesn't show up and those were dacted portions either. And she's really stick into her guns. Hey, oh,

oh, holy hear all we can. Yes, saying that she shouldn't be lumped in with everything else that's going on in the middle of a report. So yeah, she's she also the thing that was very a big tell for me was when she you know she was holding face the whole time just saying like no no I didn't mean to do anything I just it was a simple mistake that I didn't register as a foreign agent that was it simple mistake but I didn't register as a foreign agent. That was it, simple mistake. But I will say that I have been treated very unfairly and there's no proof the American government has no proof of the allegations that they've made against me.

And she said that deeply concerns me and it should concern all of you too at home in America that the justice system is doing this. I'm talking points. Yes. And if there's no proof against you, why did you plead guilty? Oh, yeah. And also, how are you going to sit here and say that you have all those reverence for America

and you love America so much and then just slip that talking point in there that everybody should question the government? Yeah. I love America. Don't trust them. That was so strange. And maybe, okay, giving her the benefit of the doubt, maybe she just said too many things, like she should have left it at the comment before the last one,

and she didn't mean to sound so suspicious, but that is very suspicious. Yeah, no, no. The most is that you give people the benefit of the doubt. It's possible. Yeah, it is totally possible. But, you know, because like- No, Wayne Hella, do I believe that? If she just came over, she was a student, she fell in love with beauty in the beast and and Paul Erickson and the little mermaid

You know she's really cared about America She wanted to be a student even though he was paying off someone to do all of her homework and take her test for her But she was really into the whole idea and she was just sort of doing some stuff that might you know bring Russia and America closer together Through the National Rifle Association when there's no guns in Russia And her to fit And I mean this sarcastically, that is so American. Like coming in, having someone else do your work, making all this money, loving guns, like she actually pulled off the stereotype

just enough to get caught. And that's what you do when you're a plant. Yeah, and I also think that if she was actually here on behalf of both America and Russia, trying to engage in these peace-building operations. This interview would have sounded like, I understand the history that Russia has with the U.S. and why people would jump to the conclusion that I was part of that scheme. That has been uncovered and detailed and investigated in full already because of how much of a thing

it is. She could have said something like I understand why they would feel inclined to group me in with that major effort but she doesn't say anything like that whatsoever. Like a self-awareness or shamelessness and either one is not it's not for her position. Yeah. Yeah. So she said she said I have said what I always said, I do not lie, which is obviously the most suspicious thing anyone can say. And then as if that's enough. You're like, oh, okay, all right.

I want to trust someone more that says they are 99% sure of something instead of 100, because it's just like admitting that there's a chance that you're wrong or that you lie sometimes would make me trust you more than to be like, I never lie. Yeah, and that's always how Putin and Russia responds to these allegations of things against them too that oftentimes turn out to be corroborated as true, right? Like with Skrapal and like all of these heinous acts that the Russian government has taken a huge role in. They just say 100% no, nothing to do with it 100% no.

It's offensive. You even suggest that. Yes. Yeah, people don't like 100% I found that out. I mean all whales are mammals. Cool. And that's why I was reluctant to say it. But I shared an article on Twitter this week 100% of unwanted pregnancies are caused by

men. I think we lost like 55. Yeah, that's fair. But I do like that you know you put yourself out there and we went some you lose some. Yeah whatever I hope they were men. Go ahead. Go ahead. No I'm sure it was yeah I was meant. Alright I'm sorry come back guys.

But so just to wrap it up she closed the interview with saying that she still loves this country and she says how can I hate this country after I have so many friends here. I do love this country. Sebastian and she's got the friends. You got to bat your eyes. Yeah her little see friends. Why would she's got the prince. You got to bet your eyes. Yeah, her little sea friends. Why would she want to leave? Fucker your loop. Yeah, I guess when she's in jail, we'll find out if she really is a red

head. Oh, cause her hair will grow out. Okay, I was like, wait, are we gonna get strip search photos or something? Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and she ends it by saying, I get hair dye in prison game. It's just gonna be cool, right? Yeah. That's true. I didn't think about that. You could write books, you could dye your hair. Yeah, you could get cherry red. It's cherry red.

Basically like that, Dane, what's that prison that's like very, very compassionate to the inmates and they see like a much better success in the personivism? I didn't see that in that. It's like sweet in herself. I forget where it is. Denmark or?

Yeah, Denmark sounds right. Amsterdam sounds nice too. Totally random. Anyways, she ends up by saying that she wishes, I didn't mean to cut you off with that. Oh, that was so sweet. You can find. She says that I do love this country.

And I wish you guys the best. Well, thank you. Good luck with your life. Maria. Yeah, that's a really weird and parting set of words to say for someone that says they love this country and it tends to like stay in it. Almost like good luck in 2020. Yeah, exactly. I wish you guys the best peace.

Like what does she know? She just like slurps into the earth and pops up in Russia. Such an packed thing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Sorry, we were talking about Jordan on the jet pack. I think yesterday, the old space man goodbye. The old space man goodbye. Yes. Pretty great we were talking about Jordan on the jet pack. I think in yesterday. The old Space Man goodbye. The old Space Man goodbye. Yes. Pretty great episode.

If you're not a patriot, you should check it out. Yeah, that was a fun one. So that's it. All right. Thank you. Thank you for that. Thank you both. All right, guys.

In my eyes, apart from all the White House obstruction and the letter from 800 prosecutors and junior being subpoenaed, the big news for me this week dropped late Friday and it was the two time, that two, wait, what is it? Two time Don McGahn exoneration ask. That's what I've called it. I'm like two timing what? As we all know, McGahn appears, a zillion times in the Mueller report,

I think it's named like 150 times, particularly in the section on obstruction, which is the section that nearly 800 prosecutors wrote their letter about, right, that I read for you. In a stunning story, first reported by the Wall Street Journal and then quickly confirmed by the New York Times and NBC who expanded on it, we've learned this week that on two separate occasions in the last month, the White House reached out to Don McGann to ask him to publicly declare that he did not think Trump obstructed justice. The first time the White House contacted McGann's lawyer, Burke, was after Barr shared the

Mueller report with Trump's lawyers, remember he sat him down, secular and Giuliani, and let him read it before it was released to the public in Congress. Apparently, secular and Giuliani were mad that the Mueller report didn't include McGann saying that he didn't think Trump obstructed justice, which they insist that he said, but is not in his testimony under oath to Mueller. Because apparently Burke told Giuliani and Seculo that McGann didn't think Trump obstructed justice. He said that a while ago, and that's what he told, that's what he was saying to Mueller.

He didn't think that he obstructed justice. That's what McGann's lawyer told Trump's lawyers. Million dollars said he was just trying to get him off his back because Burke told him that right after he told him that right after the New York Times reporting that McGahn had spent over 30 hours talking to Mueller. So I figure basically what happened is Trump read the reports from the New York Times that that Don McGahn spent 30 hours talking to Mueller and then he got really pissed and then to chill everybody out, Burke said to Secular and Giuliani, oh, don't worry, my

client doesn't think Trump obstructed justice. And so when Giuliani and Secular were reading the report before we got a hold of it, and before Congress got a hold of it, they're like, where is it? It's not in here. Oh, they lied to him. And so then McGann refused to exonerate the president when asked to do so. I love that. They called him up and they said, Hey, can you tell McGann to go out to the public and say that he didn't obstruct justice? And McGann's like, I'm not gonna do that. That is a huge deal.

Then again, the White House reached out via phone call from Emmett flood to Burke, right after the redacted Mueller report was made public and asked McGann again, if he would say publicly, that he didn't think the president had committed obstruction of justice and he rebuffed them again right around that because he knows he's like I'm not gonna help you obstruct justice. He's not gonna purge her himself or whatever the public. Don't you remember from the last time when I wouldn't do all your shit? Why do you think I'm gonna do this shit? I hate you more now. Yeah and right around that time on the second rebuff if we look back at Twitter history,

Giuliani began publicly attacking Don McGann. And I'm sorry, but this is straight up witness intimidation. Yes. And I had a reporting that Trump was pissed after McGann rebuffed him, but now that reporting seems to be missing from the articles. I don't know what that's about. But as we all know, McGann's 30-hour testimony is probably some of the most important in the Mueller report because it helped outline 11 instances, which we thought was 10, but now it's up to 11 instances of obstruction of justice. And in an ironic twist, the fact that Trump allowed Mr. McGahn to cooperate, so freely with a special counsel, will forever waive his right to exert executive privilege over any evidence related to the obstruction of justice, not to mention you can't exert privilege over a crime.

Wow, we're like one more obstruction of justice away from a calendar, potentially. Yeah, the 12 obstructions of justice. Yeah, one for every month, yeah. So, according to the New York Times, the president's lawyers are especially concerned about two of the instances of obstruction. The first is where Trump asked him to fire the special counsel of McGann, and after the public reporting came out that Trump asked McGann to falsify a white house document, rebutting his account. So what I want to know is did Bar know about the White House

asking McGann to publicly exonerate Trump of obstruction when he testified to Congress? I also want to know if Trump knew about it or told Emmett flood to ask or if Emmett did it on his own because if Trump ordered it and Bar knew about it that's conspiracy to commit motherfucking obstruction of justice. Which apparently the president is unable to stop committing. He's either an idiot, he doesn't care,

or he thinks he'll get away with it by winning 2020. Yeah, yeah. This does explain his logic. It's not so much that he thinks these laws don't exist, but they don't apply to him in any way. Yeah. When the Mueller report first came out, and there was always, you know, talking head discussions on NPR and everything,

so when it said something that I thought was a good way to put it, that his opinion was always, you know, talking head discussions on NPR and everything. So when said something that I thought was a good way to put it, that his opinion was, regardless, you know, maybe it's the case that Trump didn't willingly commit these crimes, but he is now counter-punching his way into criminality. Yeah, yeah, and I think that at the very least that's what's happening. Yeah, the burgery trap. It's the burgery trap. Lindsay Lohan. Yeah. I do the hailey mills, but yeah. Oh, okay. It's the burgery trap. Lindsey Lohan. Yep. I do the hailey mills, but yeah.

Oh, OK. It's a generational thing. They're coming together. Yes, yes. I like the 60s. And just to be crystal clear, guys, when we call him again, the John Dean of Stupid Watergate, and we did indeed get the phrase,

Stupid Watergate, from John Oliver, thank you, John Oliver. Yes, yes. Oh, nice. And we, in no way, we know we think he's some kind of hero. He was a criminal. The FBI. This is John Dean They referred him. They referred to him. The FBI referred to him. John Dean is the master manipulator of the cover up He was sentenced to one to four years in federal prison Now people can redeem themselves and we'll see what happens

But please don't for one second think I'm insinuating McGann as a hero so far He has not Jamie Lannistered his way into my good graces, so right and we're making very, you come strange bedfellows, is that how you refer to it? Yeah. Yeah. This administration is pulling out a lot of strange, like, you know, things like that. Politics makes for strange bedfellows. Totally. That's an old. Yeah, yeah. But it's true. And I prefer that. Older bit of giddy. Yeah. All right. But what's especially interesting about this week with all the talk about obstruction

is that when asked about his thoughts on the subpoena issues for his dickhead son, Trump said, after basically Trump said Mueller, he goes, Mueller exonerated Junior. I don't know why he's calling him back in. No do overs. No take back. No dem do yeah. I'm so curious. What do you know?

And he called the Mueller Report the Bible. And when he wrapped up, instead of his usual no collusion, no obstruction, he downgraded to no collusion, essentially no obstruction. Well, he's fucking essentially no obstruction. Fucking essential. All right, guys, are you ready for sabotage? Yes. is. Remember that court case with the Buzzfeed FOIA lawsuit, Freedom of Information Act request lawsuit where the judge was like, let's wait to see what the Mueller report looks like,

but I want to retain the right to determine if the attorney general Bill Barr's redactions to the report are appropriate. That judge, Reggie Walton, said that Barr has, quote, created an environment that has caused a significant part of the American public to be concerned about whether there will be full transparency. Unquote. And he said he might need to review the full unredacted report to see if what Barr blacked out was appropriate. This new report, there's a now a new, the DOJ has turned over a new redacted Mueller report to Buzzfeed. And the new report doesn't just give bars for reasons for redactions, right? He had four categories.

It gives more detail as to why the stuff is redacted. So for example, in the co-insection where there's big redaction for harm to an ongoing matter, the new report indicates that what is redacted isn't just harm to an ongoing matter. It's stuff that pertains to records or information compiled for law enforcement purposes that the release of which would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication and for personal privacy. So with all this additional information, Buzzfeed can now challenge the redactions if it shoots.

Can you repeat that personal privacy part at the end? Just and personal privacy. In general, so that's a redaction just that personal privacy part at the end? Just and personal privacy. In general, so that's a reduction just for personal privacy reasons. Well, that whole reduction has like six different... Well, it's got... It can be records of information compiled for law enforcement purposes, the release of which would deprive a person the right to a fair trial. Yes.

And personal privacy. So there's two reasons those things are redacted. Because I... Well, my thinking is if I understand this correctly, that's not harm to an ongoing matter that falls under the other one of the four reasons, right? Which is... Right, but it is in this FOIA, in the nine reasons for why you would redact material in a FOIA release, that it's in there. And so, this particular sentence wasn't just harm to an ongoing matter, but it also violated personal privacy.

Got it. Instead of grouping it in together, which bar did just calling it harm to an ongoing matter? Okay, cool. Yes, okay, got it. Thank you. And I'm surprised he didn't also say unpersonal privacy, because one of that was one of his four categories, too. Right, it just looks bad when you uncover it, or he gives more of the explanation,

and it turns out that one of them was also another thing other than just the hard good ongoing investigation where Buzzfeed can say I think this could be bullshit and that's where Reggie Walton needs to have a full and redacted report so he can determine if it's one. Yeah. Yeah. This is why Clevve Refuge helped me to rise well. Because it'll be a little bit of a sin or a bit of a sin. You might not have heard, but we had an indictment this week. Pras Michelle, founding member of the Fuji's, has been indicted of four counts of making

illegal foreign donations to the Obama campaign. Oh my god. So you all remember Jolo, I'm sure the Malaysian one, M.D.B. fellow that stole and lauded like four billion dollars. Yeah, yeah. And he's been charged for that. Well, he gave Prasmischel, founding member of the Fuji's, about 21 million dollars, and he then took about $865,000 of that and funneled it into Obama's 2012 campaign using straw

donors. Wow. Wow. I hope just kidding. I just kidding. I mean, I have so many things to say, but you want to, you want to, yeah, let me fit it in the next question. Now, the indictment refers to Obama as candidate A, but we know it's him.

And the indictment says that he was totally unaware of these donations. Mr. Michelle and Mr. Low have both been charged with violations of campaign finance law and conspiracy to defraud the United States government. Mr. Michelle has additionally been charged with concealing material facts and lying in connection with the conspiracy. Jolo is at large, but Michelle, excuse me not Michael, Michelle appeared in court on Friday and pleaded not guilty to the charges. So if you had pros Michelle from the Fuji's on your fantasy indictment teams, you get a point. This certainly stemmed from the Mueller probe. It's probably one of the referred cases.

And as we have always said, and always maintain, if you find Democrats or those that support them who broke these laws, charge them with a crime. So now we have two, Prasmishel of the Fuji's and Greg Craig the lobbyist who work for Manafort. And this is no different from the Sam Patton case, where he was indicted using straw donors to funnel Russian money to the Trump inaugural. So what's the actual charge? Funnalling money too much money, passing the, like they can't give that much money, so

he funneled it through different things. Foreign money. Foreign money. That was from the Malaysian one, M.D.B. fund. Okay. and we'll let you do different things. Foreign money. That was from the Malaysian one, M.D.B. fund. Because Sam Patton took pro-Russian Ukrainian money from a Ukrainian oligarch. Got a straw donor set up and put it into the Trump $50,000 into Trump inaugural by saying he was buying tickets to the inauguration.

So it's not so much the amount but where it came from. Got it. So now the concept of foreign influence buying. So now we've got Prasmischel taking Malaysian money from Jolo and funneling almost a million dollars of it into Obama's campaign. Oh my God. I have a parody about Jolo.

It's like a Jolo parody. Like don't be fooled by the doctor they got. I'm still Jolo from the block. Like you're writing a whole thing. Excellent. But it was also laundered money. Yes, the four it was, four billion stolen. I don't know if the 21 million he got was laundered. Okay. Yeah, okay got it

So I can't wait to hear that I was wondering if the charge included that it like because it was also Londard money or something that that's yeah, I don't have to look I'd have to read the charging document I'm all for people like getting charged for doing illegal things I do understand morally why he felt compelled to donate to Obama, but yes, just play by the rules. It's not that hard. It's not.

It's Obama had a lot of money. He didn't need you to break the rules for him. Yeah, just don't do it. How are you allowed to give that much money? Small donations through straw donors. But domestic ones, would that be okay if he did that with different domestic companies or organizations and funneled the money through that?

Not if the money came from a foreign source. Right, let's just say with the amount that he did. That's fine. Yeah, I know people do that all the time. You would need to funnel that at that point. Right, you could just give it to a super pat. What's the number? I think, oh, super pat is don't have a cap, do they?

I don't think so. Yeah, the whole like, that's what they're super. Maybe $2600 per, I have 48 for a, that's a lot for me. That's a lot for a corporation. I'm not sure. Yeah, the whole like that's what they're super maybe $2600 per I have 48 for a lot of 49 for a corporation. I'm not sure. Yeah, yeah, but it's definitely under like $5,000 is like how much one individual. Yeah, that's like this whole citizens United bummer. That's right. Yeah, we'll get the the facts on all that. But the main story here is the food Jesus has been invited in the molar probe. All my friends. Ready. You're not never never thought they come there's so many like memes that kind of mine I never thought we would fucking get here. All right Jordan. You get to go first. Yay. Sater. Okay. All right now that this will DTJ

Sapina all right my turn proz Michelle pre-agreement. Oh, wow Because if he has anything to offer law enforcement, he should do it. That's what Sam patented He helped and he took got probation. Yeah, no, no, he's gonna find his name. I can Google it But pros PRAS Michelle M.I.C.H.E.L. I actually really like that for a guy. It's very I'm very 2019. Yes That's what you get that's a great call because the the not guilty plea. Yeah, yeah Very cool. All right, is it me? Yeah. I'm actually going to go with Weiselberg. Still hold not for that. Still hold not for Weiselberg. Cool. I'm going to go with

the AMI. Wait, it's my turn. Oh, sorry. AMI, just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, I just joking. I wasn't going to do it anyway. Honors, kid. Oh, let's do Juliana Sunch cool am I yes, yes Well since it's cats fine or what used to be is cat not gonna pick him Sherry Dylan nice. Yeah, picker You've selected Wait, is it your turn? No, oh, okay I was just given her the voice. What are you holding out for specifically with am I? The fact that they

Fucked up their non-prosychucine agreement by extorting the whole, you know, the whole distortion thing. Pictures, yeah, yeah, totally. Okay, nice. And along those lines, Dylan Howard, the attorney, he was also given a non-prosychucine agreement. That's right. AMI. Hell yeah. So I'm sorry, it was your third pick, right, AG? Did I miss it? Yeah, mine is Dylan Howard That's right. Okay, she had pecker. Okay, but yeah, you skipped her right? So I'll just put it down for you if you want or do you know I have I have satyr in a sond for you

I said her I had satyr a sond's pecker. Okay, maybe I'm just bad with orders of things Yeah, she said pecker and then I said you've selected pecker. Oh, that's why I said that when I smoke I'm the same way. I'll just like mix up the rotation like I'm so bad at this. Dude, I do it all the time. It's my turn now, right? Thank you. All right, okay.

Okay, down. Of course. I'm gonna do Brittany Kaiser. Yeah, I knew you were gonna do that. Yes. All right, I'm going. Donald Trump Jr. Ooh, big money.

Yeah, my way of it. I put that last week and it vibes out into the University of Ossipine, so. Yeah, it's good beans out of the universe. I'm gonna go Corsey. Okay. Plume agreement. That guy.

No, I don't think he's gonna do a Plume agreement. Just Corsey. Yeah, he's like a side builder bear. So sad. Trump org. I'm gonna do Trump inaugural. Mm. All right. Oh, I skipped you that time. Yeah, yeah. Then I'm going to do Trump inaugural. All right. I always get you that time.

Then I'm going to do the Trump foundation. All right. And we're done. Yeah, we're bunsy's. That should be it. Cool. You guys have fifth one in? I believe so.

I have Fisalberg, Sherry Dillon, Kaiser, Trumporg. Oh, let me get that last one. Rando. Rando. All right. Doing the rando, that's a random. When we pick a random person or a Russian, random Russian, that's how we do the fantasy and diamond league. Yeah.

Stick around, guys. We'll be right back after this quick break for an interview with the election. The election. Oh, no. La la la la la la. La la la. The election security expert, Jennifer Cohn.

You guys are going to absolutely love everything that she has to say and it's really important that we listen to this stuff so we'll be right back. Hey guys, as you all know, I battle with secondary anxiety from PTSD and for a long time I was looking for something other than pharmaceuticals to help with some of the lingering symptoms and that's when I heard about CBDs. So I tried sagely naturals. Sagely is a safe and effective way to promote health and to promote a state of balance in

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That's SAGELYnaturals.com slash AG for 20% off your first order. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, and these products are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. Hi, I'm Dan Dunn, host of What We're Drinking with Dan Dunn, the most wildly entertaining adult beverage-themed podcast in the history of the medium. That's right, the boozy best of the best, baby! And we have the cool celebrity promos to prove it. Check this out! Hi, I'm Allison Janney, and you're here cool celebrity promos to prove it. Check this out. Hi, I'm Allison Janney and you're here with me on What We're Drinking with Dan Dunn.

And that's my sexy voice. Boom. Boom is right Academy Award winner, Allison Janney. As you can see, celebrities just love this show. How cool is that? Hey, this is Scottie Bippin and you're listening to the Dan Dunn show, and wait, hold on. The name of the show is what? Alright, sure. Scottie Pippin momentarily forgot the show's name, but there's a first

time for everything. Hey everyone, this is Scoot McNary. I'm here with Dan Dunn on What Are You Drinking? What's he calling it? Fine, twice. But famous people really do love this show. Hi, this is Will Forte, and you're, for some reason, listening to what we're drinking with Dan Dunn. Now, what do you mean for some reason, Will Forte? What's going on? Hi, this is Kurt Russell. Listen, I escaped from New York, but I couldn't get the hell out of Dan Dunn's happy hour. Please send help.

Send help? Oh, come on, Kurt Russell. Can somebody out there please help me? I'm Dita Von Tees, and you're listening to what we're drinking with Dan Dunn. Let me try one more time, come on. Is it right? What we're drinking? It's amazing, isn't it?

It's amazing, isn't it, right? Ah, that's better. So be like Dita Von Tees, friends, and listen to what we're drinking with Dan Dunn, available wherever you get your podcasts. That's better. So be like Deed of Auntie's friends and listen to what we're drinking with Dan Dunn, available wherever you get your podcasts. So joining us today for the interview is writer, attorney, and election security advocate,

Jennifer Cohn. Jennifer, we've been wanting to talk to you for a while now ever since we broached the subject of potential vote manipulation by foreign actors, which no one seemed to want to talk about because of the potential implications, but we're so glad to have you. Welcome to Mollershi Road. Thank you very much for having me on the show. No, we really appreciate it. We're excited to talk to you. Can you tell us a little bit

about your focus on auditing the vote and paper ballots? Sure. So my concern is first and foremost, 2020, and what used to be 2018, but it's 2020 and making sure that we have some mechanism for confirming than half of our states don't conduct any sort of manual audit at all. We don't have equipment that's really conducive to meaningful manual audits. So it's kind of, it's a really large task. And a lot of the election integrity groups I noticed early on were focusing exclusively on doing manual audits with the assumption that something short of hand marked paper ballots would still be acceptable. Any kind of paper would do. And based on my research, it became really obvious and really indisputable that that's just not the case, that the only

paper record of voter intent that can provide a meaningful manual audit is a hand marked paper ballot. And it no longer suffices, unfortunately, to say we need paper ballots because the vendors, there's no universal definition of paper ballots. And so the vendors change the meaning. And the number one you hear about audit trails, those have been around for a while and studies have shown there essentially useless. No one looks at them, people don't notice mistakes, even if they do, even if they notice a mistake, they don't notice mistakes even if they do. If they notice a mistake,

they don't correct it. So the vendors came out with a new thing and they called them paper ballots, but their machine marked summary cards with barcodes on them. And they're a nightmare and they didn't do human usability studies. The one study that was conducted showed that they're no better than those voter verifiable paper audit trails, which really indisputably have been proven a disaster. So I've made it sort of my quest to make sure we have a paper trail that's conducive to a legitimate, to a meaningful manual audit. And it's been quite a task because what I found, again early on a few years ago,

I would be on these, you know, they are different groups who have like email exchanges and things. And some of these experts were sounding the alarm about these new systems. They're called ballot marking devices that are intended for all voters. It used to, and those are the ones that come up with those summary cards. And, but the public didn't know about it. And I would Google it and all these, you know, major counties, the largest counties in the swing states and elsewhere, were flocking to buy these ballot marking devices. And these really well regarded experts

were expressing concern, but they weren't talking to the media. And the media didn't know about it. And I started writing about it because I just was so concerned. You know, why aren't you calling the media, but a lot of them are scientists, and that's just not their thing. So anyway, that has been my focus is making sure we have a meaningful paper trail, and then

of course I want the manual audits to, but that has been really my focus for the last couple of years. Yeah, well, that's interesting that nobody was really talking about it, and not just for auditing purposes, I assume, but maybe also this could help with recounts. Yeah, we've had several issues of instances of very close elections, and the recounts are very contested. And I know that Roger Stone was trying to start riots down down in Florida this last time, along with in the year 2000. And so it would just be really good to have these as a way, as a backup way to run manual recounts when we need them.

Well, exactly. And frankly, I would prefer full recounts or full hand counts to manual audit, but at an absolute minimum robust public manual audits are a necessity. And you're right. It's not just a matter of being able to prove that we won when we win, it's also a matter of being able to prove, I'm sorry, it's not just a matter of being able to prove that an illegitimate win is illegitimate. Let's just say hypothetically if Trump were to cheat and win that way. We want to be able to prove it, but also if he falsely claims that we cheated, you want to be able to defend against that. In the court of public opinion, even if it's not necessary in the courts, the court of public opinion, as we've seen, is really important in recent times.

And so, yeah, we just don't have the right kind of system. And a lot of the people who have worked in this area really haven't, voter outreach was not so much their thing because they're scientists, and a lot of them in fairness have done this in their spare time, and many of them are used to the public not caring because before 2016, the public really was kind of, most of the public was kind of tuned out to election security, and if you raise the possibility of Italian manipulation, you are kind are considered fringe.

So, it didn't occur to them, I don't think, that they could actually activate voters and that people would be, they were going for whatever compromises they could get, and it's not enough. So, it's just not enough to buy these ballot marking devices and call them paper ballots. They can be hacked, just like any other electronics. Right. And Trump's already been doing this. He's been calling for the, you know, the elections rigged and he's been talking about

voter fraud since before 2016 in case he lost that was going to be his fight. And I know Nancy Pelosi has recently said if it's, if the election is close, that Donald Trump might not voluntarily leave the White House. And this is all really one-sided, it it seems because the only folks who don't want the correct Count of votes are those are basically the Republicans. Well, you have not read my Twitter feed today then. Yeah, so I'm a Democrat so I'm just gonna put that out there because I think it's relevant I just always try to be honest where I'm coming from. I'm a Democrat, I was a Hillary supporter, I still love Hillary. So I'm not particularly, I'm to the left, but I'm not super to the left.

I'm kind of like a your centrist Democrat, I guess, maybe a little left of that. But and I will say, and I have done sort of a historical research on which party has blocked paper trail legislation more. And overwhelmingly, it's been the Republicans, but there are notable exceptions within the Democratic Party. And unfortunately, it doesn't fall neatly into this. If you're a Democrat, you have a record that shows you care about election security. And if you're a Republican, you don't.

Typically, if you're a Republican, you don't. However, there are there are Democrats who um a Steny Hoyer who he's the house leader. He signed the Help America Vodak in 2000 that did not require a paper trail and he signed it. His company he was a co-sponsor with Bob Nay who is a Republican who went to prison for accepting bribes from a debold voting machine company lobbyist. And then he joined with Mitch McConnell and Bob May to block paper trail legislation later on. So it would abandon paperless machines.

He blocked it. And more recently, the reason why I brought this up, I kind of, I put this out before, but I haven't been so worried about it because certainly Democrats have pushed harder than Republicans. Although I've also expressed great frustration because they don't, with the exception of Ron Wyden, who's great, they don't push hard enough. The vendors want to sell these ballot-marking devices. They make them make ton of money. They cost three times as much for a lot less security. And I found an article not that long ago that showed that Nancy Pelosi's former

chief of staff is now a Dominion voting lobbyist. Dominion voting is the second largest vendor in the United States. So I'm very becoming increasingly concerned that we have, that the reason why the Democrats haven't been more bold on, on these ballot marking devices with the exception of Ron Whiden. He's the only one who's talked about the ballot marking devices and bar codes on these, you know, machine-marts paper ballot crap. I'm concerned that even if they don't know it, that they fall in for vendor propaganda because the ties are too close with the voting machine companies. And it matters not so much for casting blame, although you can do that too, but it's important to understand what we're dealing with when we're trying to get meaningful election security

legislation because if our leaders in the Democratic Party who really have to, I mean, if we're going to get legislation, it's going to start with them. If they too are, I'm sure not to the same extent, but if they too have been corrupted by overly cozy relationships with the vendors, if we've got a blue vendor, red vendor thing going on, that's got to be called out or we're not going to be able to get past it. It will be a roadblock. And the reason why it came up in particular was there was a hearing yesterday in the house. And there are not many respected experts who are fine with these ballot marking devices. There is a tiny handful. And they managed to find the tight, those were the people that house called to testify. And I just know them from Twitter. And you know, one guy, his name is Joseph Hall. I'd never even heard of him until someone asked me about him and I checked his account

and he'd had me blocked. People know I have by far the largest Twitter account on election security, by far, and they know that that's been my main issue and that I like to debate these things, and yet rather than have the courage to subject his views, which are pro-ballot marking device Pro-Vender, to public scrutiny. He blocked me. And you'd think if he if he thought I were wrong. I mean, I put it out there publicly because if I'm wrong, I want people to tell me. And if he could show that I'm wrong, he would have done it. And instead he, you know, the and the other guy too, another, oh, actually, I don't think he was called to testify, but so I'm just really

worried. It seemed to me that if Dominion voting or ESNS is the red vendor, if they had wanted, if they had been asked what experts to have testified this hearing yesterday, these would have been the ones because what their unified message was was throw a ton of money at it, which and that's about it. And oh oh and conduct manual audits, but no concern about what type of paper would be the basis for the audit no concern about these ballot marking devices that That's what the vendors would want. Wow, so it does happen on both sides. That's really good to know and An important point. It's very upsetting. Yeah, it's very just it's very upsetting. And it's tricky for me to bring it out because I know that we want to maintain unity within the Democratic Party. And I agree with that strategy. But I also, my loyalty is not to an individual politician ever. It's, I mean,

this is my issue. And if no matter what party someone's in, if they are advocating the wrong thing, or just remaining silent and enough time passes where I'm pretty sure they know what the issue is, and they're just not addressing it. Yeah, and I agree with you. It's not just about the party. It's about the votes. And if we find out by voting that most people in an area want a certain thing, then I want them to have that, and I want their votes to be counted, whether I agree with the policy or not. So I'm 100% with you on that. And recently, you tweeted about the voting machines and political donations in 22 counties

in Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul's home state of Kentucky. And can you tell us what that could mean for the elections in 2020? Sure. Well, the truth is it's not specific at all to Kentucky. But people were tweeting a lot about Mitch McConnell the other day. There was something he did. I don't even know what he's always doing something terrible, but I saw that and. And I had remembered ESNS is the vendor that I mentioned that appears to be a red vendor. And the reason I say that it's America's largest vendor.

The reason I say it appears to be red is because it's donated $30,000 to the Republican State Leadership Committee, which its mission is to elect Republicans to state office and it houses the Republican Secretary of State's Association, and it's donated $30,000 since 2013 and nothing to Democrats. Why are voting machine companies allowed to make donations to political parties anyway? Well, our system is just so freaking corrupted. And I mean, yes, so the thing with the Nancy Pelosi's former chief of staff, I've spent a lot of time calling out Brian Kemp's office for playing that game

with ESNS because his former chief of staff was on ESNS's advisory board, and his new chief of staff was a lobbyist for ESNS. And so that's why when I saw Nancy Pelosi at my heart just and Kemp is George. Kemp is George. Is that correct? Yeah, I'm sorry. Brank Kemp is George. So ESNS is a national problem. It accounts for the Wharton School of Business to study a year ago and said it was about 44%. I actually think it's I think that that's correct in terms of what its equipment is, but I think its control is actually much higher if you look at actual vendor contracts.

So the reason being that they actually sold some physical equipment to Dominion Voting and the copyright. So when they did the study, they looked at who made the machines originally, not necessarily who has all the contracts. So ESNS is in Kentucky. So when they did the study, they looked at who made the machines originally, not necessarily who has all the contracts. So ESNS is in Kentucky. There's two vendors in Kentucky only. So this is Mitch McConnell and Rand Paul's home state. Oh, I know what it was.

They lifted sanctions on oligdarapaska, the Russian oligarch, and then Darapaska's company Rousal donated a ton of money just to Kentucky. Yes, and they're opening a giant aluminum plant with Oleg's company. That's what it was. That's right. They used the money for the... So I wanted to point out everyone saying, oh, we got to vote them out. We got to vote them out. And, you know, I looked it up in ESNS and heart is inter-civic is the other vendor, which is much smaller than ESNS and Dominion, but it's the third largest.

And it has ties to the Romney family according to Fortune magazine. And so, no, according to Forbes. So I thought that was maybe worth pointing out that ESNS $30,000 donation. And I mean, the other thing I feel like it's just when people are so confident that we can just get out the vote and vote them out. Maybe we can. I hope we can. I just think that people, we were all raised to think we lived in the best democracy.

And it's really difficult unless you spend a lot of time looking at the details like I have to see the cracks in that theory and that the corruption that we're seeing all over our government doesn't somehow magically disappear when we're talking about our election systems and how those are conducted and the federal agencies that were supposed to conduct oversight, they're all corrupted and they've all been infiltrated by vote suppressors. And the vendors themselves have been infiltrated. And what really upset me not long ago with Kentucky is that, so I'm worried about the integrity of the vote is the bottom line.

And they do have quite a few paperless voting machines, which are unauditable. And they are replacing them with the new ballot marking devices that experts say cannot provide the basis for, they will make people think they're auditable and I mean you can run an audit but it won't you can't confirm a legitimate you can't confirm an election outcome with them. In other words, you could have a fake outcome that looks legitimate by running an audit with these things. And I was really upset because they have a Democratic Secretary of State, but Jessica Hughes minutes ProPublica, which normally I like, to do this massive hit piece on the Democratic Secretary of State for

really after everyone was talking about the potential Russian hacking of 2016, she hired an election firm to audit, I believe, ESNSN Heart System. So these Republican vendors, I don't know that she saw them as Republican vendors, but to audit the election system. And unfortunately, she hired an election company that had donated to her campaign. And so I know. So here we go. And so pro-publica did this huge ex, you know, what they called this major expose and didn't mention anything about. She didn't look into the vendors themselves at all, which I have discussed with Jessica Houston previously, even sending her emails and, you

know, emails back and forth about the vendors. She didn't look into the vendors at all. So she did this one site. It's not that what she said about the donation that she shouldn't have published it or reported it, but it, but by not mentioning the conflicts on the other side, it empowered the GOP to strip her powers. So they did this massive power stripping of this democratic secretary of state, who by the way ran against Mitch McConnell in 2014. And the polls had them in a dead heat and somehow on these large many of them paperless voting machines, he supposedly defeated her by 15 points. This just isn't happening in other countries with polling being that off. So I can't, maybe it was legitimate. Maybe our polling was just you know

Really really massively inaccurate, but I don't know polling has been Polling has been pretty off a lot recently and it raises a lot of eyebrows. So Ever since 2000 and it's just you know, whether you can prove it or not my point is we shouldn't assume that everything's on the up and up because that's dangerous and we should do what we can. Everything we can to make sure we haven't left, you know, locked the front door and the windows only to find out we left the back door open. Yeah, and whether or not we can prove it, which we can't do unless we have an auditable system. So it's kind of a bad catch 22. But we did get some good news out of North Carolina about the Board of Elections Executive Director. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes, so North Carolina is a particular

particularly problematic state. On some surveys, it's no longer rated as a democracy. And that was largely due to the Republican control of the state election board and the state legislature and the head of the North Carolina election board for years has been a woman named Kim Strach and what happened was in I guess it was the 2016 election the Republicans were just stunned when Roy Cooper a Democrat defeated

I don't remember who their what their candidates name was, but they defeated he defeated the Republican and they They couldn't accept it and they threw a tantrum and they decided there was a rule that if you have, whoever is in the governorship gets one extra person on the state board of elections, so they get the head of the state election board as that members party. They just decided to change the rule. I don't even think the legislature passed a lot. members party and they just decided to change the role. They didn't even, I don't even think the legislature passed a lot. They just sort of internally decided, maybe they did, but they put Kim's stock, they put Kim's stock back in charge of the board,

even though it was supposed to be a Democrat. And, and you know, she wreaked all kind of havoc there because the Republicans in, they did stuff like shutting down voting on Sundays because, and they even it would admit that it was because African-American people tend to go to church and most African-American people are Democrats and they said that wasn't racist because it was because they happened to vote Democrats, so therefore it was fine. I mean, they just did, they did sketchy stuff like putting modems in their ballot scanners. They, oh, the worst thing they probably did. This is really bad. So, you know, how VR systems is the third party vendor that Mueller

says was infiltrated by Russia. They're actually worth three vendors. One of them we figured out, no one actually told us, but told the public, but it kind of leaked out that it was VR systems. We don't know who the other two are. But North Carolina used VR systems for its electronic pullbooks, which is what checks in the voters to make sure they're registered on Election Day. And they had massive, massive, massive electronic pullbook problems in the heavily blue county of Durham in North Carolina in 2016, which was considered a major swing state. And for that election and the board claimed that it had conducted a forensic analysis and found nothing wrong and people didn't really believe it and they didn't really share with the in out. They didn't really share the report or anything and sure enough after Mueller came out with confirmation that it was VR systems that had been infiltrated and people were talking about it more they finally admitted or maybe it was the Democrats who admitted.

I don't know. It was admitted finally that they lied. They did not they maybe did a cursory examination but they did not conduct a deep forensic analysis to determine whether it had actually been penetrated by Russia. So these things all kind of come from the state election board, or a lot of these things do, you know, how many polling places you're going to have, and where you're going to have them. And whether you're going to, you know, take the potential absentee ballot fraud seriously, like in the North Carolina, ninth district. So in any event, the lost the Republicans lost in court in their effort to seize control

of the state election board, and they just made a move to oust Kim Strach, who is the Republican, who has been in charge of the board. And they're trying to say that this is a totally partisan move by the Democrats. And I just said, good riddance. Her husband also, I mean, she has a huge conflict of interest in that she has her husband representing the Republicans and the legislature in trying to undermine voting rights. So.

Well, good. That's good news. We get a little bit of good news every once in a while. Finally, what can people like us do to help bolster election security since it appears the Republicans are leaving money designated for that purpose on the table? What can we do? Well, it's not that I think that there's no use for the money.

I don't want to suggest that using a lot of money at the problem is the answer because the groups that I have the most concern about are the ones who just put it just that way. Let's just give all this money to the states and let them buy new equipment because the problem is especially in the southern states and the swing states and the Republican controlled jurisdictions and to an extent democratic jurisdictions. they're making irresponsible decisions and buying these ballot marking devices which cost three times as much as handmarked paper ballots, whether you use scanners or not, it's an extra layer on top of, you use a scanner anyway to count

it, right? So they just instead of using your hand. So I think I have a, people can number one follow my Twitter account because I will have calls to action. You really need to sort of contact with what you want. Members of Congress, your own state legislature and your own state and county election officials, because all four of those have some voice, potential voice in how this will go. And we really need to get it mainstreamed. It's starting to go this way,

mainstreaming the idea of hand-marked paper ballots. You can't just say paper ballots anymore. You have to add the hand part. Even if people just start doing that, I think that would be a huge help. We also need to have, I have like a seven item checklist and I'll put it back at the top of my Twitter feed.

That of what I think would pretty much be what we need to have done in 2020 to be able to prove the legitimacy of election outcomes and to know whether outcomes are legitimate or not. What is your Twitter account so that they can go see that seven step process? Yeah, so my Twitter account is at Jenny Cone1, spelled C-O-H-N-1. And I also have a, I'm a member of a group of women and we have a website, which I will update. I haven't updated it much since the midterms, but it even still the action items I had then still apply. It's called

ProtectOurVotes.com. I just spelled like you would think. And I'm also on the outreach advisory board for a new election security group called Smart Elections that is organizing actual, they call them actions, but live actions, which is basically a protest but we're putting it in the positive, we're fighting for election security as much as we are against bad systems. And so if you go to smartelections.us that will also have information about calls to action

and June 6th, there is going to be an action in New York. And I think it's going to be a really big deal. Smart elections is making a real point of doing outreach both to more traditional, scientist, election security advocates who are on the board and to people with disabilities. So it's really trying to bring those two groups together. And I think that would be a very good site for people to also check in with. Awesome. More women-led activism.

I love it. So thank you so much for coming on today and explaining all this to us. It's very important. It's a subject that we need to get out there. And so everybody head to Jennifer's Twitter. It's at Jenny Cohn1, that's COHN1. And check out her, you're gonna do a pin tweet, right? So we can see what our call to action is.

Yes. All right, awesome. Thank you so much, Attorney, Elections Security advocate, Jennifer Cohn. Thanks for coming on Mollarshi Road. Thank you. It was so great to have her on finally. A while back when we tiptoed into the waiting pool

of the possibility that our votes were actually hacked, she showed up on my radar on our radar on Twitter and I'm glad we finally were lucky enough to get to hear what she has to say. It's so important. She's amazing. And now that the Mueller report is saying that it did not investigate whether or not

the vote was hacked and that it's up to the states to do that. Election security and accurate audits are more important than ever. So thank you so much Jennifer for coming on the show. Definitely. Any final thoughts guys? Where are the frickin' webbies?

I know! That's crazy! I'm still in shock looking at all like the suggestions for the fireworks between it. We did pick it guys, but I don't know if we're revealing it yet. I think we're gonna wait. Yeah, so it's probably something you have in mind or anything. Yeah, I've probably heard it.'re revealing it yet, I think I don't wait. Yeah, so it's probably something you have in mind or anything. You know, I probably heard it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A little phrase. But yes, I'm stoked and we're going to get ready now, right? For the cocktail party. Yeah. And then thanks to the studio.

Absolutely. Yes. For you have the information on the studio? I, well, okay. We can put it in there too. We can put it in there too. Yeah. I would love to give her a shout out.

Yeah. And then I didn't talk to her about what specifically she would like you to say or anything specifically. What would do it next week then? Okay, yeah, sure that we put it in the show next week. Right, but thank you just in general. And if she's cool with like a name shout out,

or if she wants like the studio name, yeah, plug it all, hell yeah. And thanks for all the gifts. We went to the mailbox with Dobby Wond Glass, made you guys really nice. Yeah. Flavored tobacco instruments. Yes, water pipes. Water pipes. My partner and I christened it. Exactly. The day we got it. I love it. Yeah. It's great. Beautiful. I'm glad. I'm glad that they sent those out. We got a lot more coffee beans. Yeah, the bean bag beans do come true. Yeah, yeah.

The necklace, the two balls. Yes, the two trump orange balls. Yeah, hello, she definitely has a red nose. Absolutely, yeah. And if we're forgetting anything, I'm so sorry, but you guys are incredible. We get so many things down that. Yeah, why?

We got wine for you. Yeah, I am floored. It was great. It's like showering us with love. I love it. It's our love languages. And we love you guys. We seriously couldn't do this with love. I love it. It's our love languages. And we love you guys.

We seriously couldn't do this without you. I know you guys are all, I hear so much like, thank you. You're my lifeline. You're getting us through this. But I seriously, you guys are my self-care. It's so mutual. Talking to you is like everything. So thank you for being there to hear it.

All right, guys. Well, thank you so much. And again, I'm having so much fun here this weekend in New York and take care of each other and take care of yourself. I've been AG. I've been Julie C. Johnson. I've been Jordan Coburn. And this is Muller She Wrote. Muller She Wrote is produced and engineered by AG with editing and logo design by Jelisa Johnson. Our marketing consultant and social media manager is Sarah Least Deiner and our subscriber and communications director is Jordan Coburn.

Fact checking and research by AG and research assistants by Jolissa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Our merchandising managers are Sarah Least Deiner and Sarah Hershberger Valencia. Our web design and branding are by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is mullershoewrote.com. Season 4 of How We Win Is Here. For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave.

But the Magga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the house. Thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So, the official podcast of the persistence is back with season 4. There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our

very democracy itself. We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country. And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it, with messaging and communications expert co-founder of Way to Win and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez

and Kona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action, and hope. I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. And this is how we win. And this is how we win. And this is how we win.

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