Jack - Dis Barr (Feat. Asha Rangappa and Andrew Torrez)

Episode Date: July 22, 2019

Join us this week as we cover racist chants at a Trump Rally, Jeffrey Epstein, Michael Cohen, Hope Hicks being called back to clarify her testimony, superseding Nader indictments, and some of our live show in Philadelphia!

Welcome to Teacher Quit Talk, I'm Miss Redacted, and I'm Mrs. Frazzled. Every week we explore the teacher exodus to find out what if anything could get these educators back in the classroom. We've all had our moments where we thought, what the hell am I doing here? From burnout to bureaucracy to soul-secing stressors and creative dead ends, from recognizing when it was time to go, to navigating feelings of guilt and regret afterwards, we're here to cut off a gaslighting and get real about what it means to leave teaching. We've got insights from former teachers from all over the country who have seen it all. So get ready to be disturbed and join us on teacher quit talk to laugh through the pain

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I'm your host A.G. and with me is always R.J. Lisa Johnson. Hello. And Jordan Coburn. Hello. We were in Philadelphia this week and we wanted you to hear parts of the live show. But since we recorded it midweek and other news has happened,

I wanted to kind of give you a quick update and make sure that we covered it real quick up front before we play some of the live the live show so We want to first announce a new tour date also in Boston on Thursday, November 7th at City winery That's on number one Canal Street doors at seven show at eight. There is a VIP meet and greet for patrons Presale for patrons begins this Wednesday, July 24th at noon Pacific 3 p.m. Eastern. We will email you the code to your patron email. So check you junk.

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Did you guys have fun, and Philly? Yeah, Philly was great, very hot, but the people are awesome. Yeah, totally. Julie, so you got interviewed by Fox News on the street? Yeah, not, not, you know, the Fox News we hate. Just the local guys and- Local affiliates, just stopped you? Exactly, you know, and I was just like blown away

that that was newsworthy, just how hot it was. He actually said, hey, can we talk while you walk across the street? So he had an umbrella, he held over us, and they like interviewed us as we were, because they didn't want to stop. They were like, it's too hot to stop and so they just walked alongside of us and that's how they got the interview.

Otherwise, I would have just like said no. But they're like, I'm just going to keep walking with you. Because you were on a mission. I think you were out getting a sharpies or something. Exactly. Yeah. Mission failed. I just got drenched.

It was so hot. And when you add that, when you stack that humidity on top of it and it's unreal to us here in California, we're like, what is this even? It was so hot, but we did go to the Eastern state penitentiary. That was cool That was so cool. Also pretty hot Yeah, I was when I was in there just as a tourist not locked up. I was thinking, oh my god These people must have been so hot in here. Seriously. I had a really crazy moment I walked inside one of the cells and it was the audio tour and you're just sitting there looking out from the cell, just imagining

actually being there and it's way trippy. It's so fucking crazy. And the interesting fact is that the people that built the prison thought that that was the more humane option, right? They created that and designed that to be hum, to try to give them time to repent. Yeah, what they figured was, because before in England, they just put everybody in one room and they'll beat the shit out of each other and pissed everywhere and shit everywhere. They did, literally that's what they did.

That wasn't even their incarceration. That was waiting for your punishment, was usually the stocks or the you know some sort of weird Cruel and unusual punishment The the shackle wristhead thing. Yeah, the stocks are the yeah, I can't remember all the names of all the weird dig or you get Flogged publicly in the public square So these guys were like let's be humane about imprisoning people. Let's give them their own room with total silence so that they aren't distracted and put a hood on them when they're in public spaces so they can't see anyone else. That was crazy to me. So they're totally isolated so that they can think about what they've done wrong and repent and be penitent

and that's where the word penitentiary comes from. I didn't know that. That's so cool. Very interesting. And then they had this one little exercise yard. They could go out like twice a day for 30 minutes. And it's like literally like an eight by 10 just open to the sun. So you could be outside for a half an hour. That must have in contrast to how yards it seems are today. That must have been nice though to just have your own space outside. And I'll have to constantly be watching your back. But obviously there are a lot of other issues like how inhumane it is for people to be in solitude.

Yeah, that's the way it was today. We'd think how nice to have your own space and your own solitude. Yeah. It was probably, and I, you know, as I mean, we've studied the show, like super mentally tortuous to totally to have that kind of isolation. Yeah, but then seeing like, yes, are we can talk about this for you? I know. And next on our prison podcast. Yeah, but then seeing like, yes, are we can talk about this for a while? I know. And next on our prison podcast, no, but it was really great.

It was really cool. And I just felt like I was in Shawshank the whole time. We talked about Shawshank. Yeah. Oh, then the last thing, they had that really cool mass incarceration exhibit at the end of it. And it was in the air conditioning, so that was awesome. They had a great 20 minute film, maybe like 10 minutes,

just documenting the rise of the war on nonviolent drug offences basically, and just how that effectively just completely blew up our prison system for violence. Yeah, and how in the 17, 1800s, early 1900s, we have the same amount of people going to prison for a violent crime that we do now, but we have 10 times as many people in prison for non-violent crime. Yeah, yeah, and then they had that part where they have, you can confess to a crime that you've done and write it down on a paper, and then they put them all up on a wall as part of the exhibit. They're like, gotcha. Yeah, but

but they're like anonymous, right? But then some of them are stokking. Don't suck, you get a knock on your door. Yeah. You dumb idiot. You thought we weren't videoing this whole thing? Come on. This whole thing is a trap. Yeah. We have a low budget.

We take it where we can't. I'll be right, then some of the statements were from people that were actually incarcerated for their crimes. And then you could see like which ones were real, and which ones, well, which ones had real punishments, and which ones. Oh yeah, which people were in prison,

and which people never went to prison for what they did. Yeah, it was an interesting contrast too. Someone was like, I hit someone and like a hit and run, and I saw it on the news, and they didn't die, but they almost did. That was like a guy that didn't go to prison. Yeah, and then you push the button to see if they were a prisoner or not.

And they're like, nope, and you're like, fuck. Yeah, it's crazy. Hit and run, dude. Totally. Tell it like it is. And seriously, knock, knock. But no, probably not. So anyway, we're going to do some quick news stories and then we're going to get on to the Philly show with Andrew Torres and our interview with Asha Rangapa, which was great. She was fantastic. Almost got to sing karaoke with her, but we all went to sleep. We were like, hmm, we're tired. So during a Trump rally, while we were on stage in Philly, Trump's crowd broke out into chance of sending her home. I'm sure you've all heard of this by now.

Right, send her back. Send her back. That's right, send her back. A variation of lock her up, really. But in reference to Trump's racist tweets about Ilhan Omar and three other women of color in Congress who are all actually citizens, three of them born here in the US.

This is not news to you by now. It's actually gotten a lot of coverage. A lot of people are calling it a distraction from Epstein or Mueller. But I mean, these stories are important in and of themselves and so so you know Don't add us for covering this because it's a big deal and

The next day Trump went on TV and lied about it saying once he heard the chance He spoke quickly to stop it because he didn't like it very much and then moved on But if you watch the tape he let it go for like 13 seconds until it stopped I've actually seen a video Two videos and I don't know if it's that one, but it's two videos side by side. It's Trump letting him do the chant and then someone cracking or solving a Rubik's cube

under water. And the same amount of time. Yeah, under water. So it was Trevor Noah. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure. That's awesome. That's so great.

Yeah, there are things you could do in the amount of time. Trump did not respond to this. It's great. Yeah, they're like things you could do Trump did not respond It's rad. Yeah, what a funny What a funny bit. Yeah, but yeah, so 13 seconds and and he waited until it died down And he like looked around as it was happening like he was taking it all in you know, he just seemed yeah I think Stephen Colbert said he was basking in it like a racist e-waters something and they're in the racist son We get a better way of putting it but it was just yeah, basking in it basically

But asking in the racist in the racist son yeah, like it I mean I hate to laugh, but those are really good jokes. Yeah, I never thought the sun being racist So that's pretty funny to me I'm just frankly. I'm surprised that anyone is surprised Like people are just now going Donald Trump's racist. This is the most racist thing I think he's overtly done and I don't blame people that tune off the news for tuning into this. That's true. It is really really overt. I mean this is definition discrimination. We're all waiting for the unword. In fact

it is because in the EEOC the labor labor law, it gives as an example of something that is discriminatory towards someone's national origin to say, go back where you came from. Yep. Like, it's a literal definition of racism in our employment laws. Like, that's what they use. Yeah. So, this is really blatant.

But yeah, you're right. I mean, no, we're not surprised, but this is so over that I think it does deserve the attention that it's getting in the news. I don't think this is, I don't like it when people are like, this is a distraction, no, do better. You know, they're not wrong about it being a distraction, but yeah, just because it is, I mean, we shouldn't talk about it.

Like Trump's tactic may be distracting, but these things are still important. Like, he's distracting us with equally crazy shit that needs to be addressed. Yeah, it's overwhelming, but it's still, it could be a strategy of his. Even if it's not, it's still, we should talk about it, you know, like, I just think it's important

to talk about regardless. Absolutely. And I think as liberals, we can do and focus on more than one thing at one time. We can multitask. We can solve a Rubik's cube under water. Wow, he's talking about racist ta-gwan. I mean, I can't, but someone can.

Well, because he's... I bet you could, I mean, gave yourself a chance. He's killing two birds with one stone because he gets the benefit of distracting people potentially and then also the benefit of perpetuating this insane racism. That's like just okay now. Throwing red meat to his base totally. And his base, I would say he's fans, but that's what they are, are eating it up.

Oh yeah. And they're defending him saying it wasn't racist because they didn't mention people by name and they didn't mention any races. And I mean, who, I've heard, context clues or something we all learn growing up. So while I was setting up, we playing this dumb card like if he doesn't say it, like, right.

We all thought he was talking about four white Irish, one bolder more or something like you don't have to say the name. We know who you're talking about because we are smart enough. We are collectively and they are too, I think, but they're playing stupid. Yeah. And some of them actually think he's not being and these, yeah, I think, but they're playing stupid. Maybe some of them actually think he's not being right. And they think that. They're like, well, they stood up and said they're talking about us.

He didn't say they were talking about it. Because he's a coward in a lot of ways. But he's mentioned them like 10 times since then. So he's not denying it. He's not saying, I didn't mean you for. He loves the enemy. Right, right. It's all comprehensive listening, right?

You put together someone's actions and their patterns with their words and you get a story. Like, what, if it's not that, what is he talking about? Well, I think it's because they see, exactly. They're saying that you're trying to make, that we're trying to make a judgment on his character and that you can't deduce that or say that definitively from words that he has said. He, but it sounds like Mueller. Right, exactly. You have to have very specific Frank word for word evidence in order for, and you have to be smart enough to do it in order for me to charge a crime, which I can't anyway

because there's a memo. So yeah, he's like, no, I didn't specifically say a name. I didn't specifically say any race. I just said you don't know specific words. I'm just saying if you don't love it, leave it. Like, yeah. I'm just still racist. Yeah, I think there's gonna apply it to other racist scenarios

and make it not racist. And then you have Democratic push back over the... What are they Thomas Jefferson rules or something? They're like the rules of conduct or whatever. Basically, these are decorum, parliamentary stuff. Yeah, exactly. That says, you can't attack basically another person's like, you can't copy a name or anything, you can't say a derogatory word about a person. It would slander or something or what is it called? Like,

what it's called? What is it? Parliamentary decorum? It breaks the rules of decorum. So, Trump did say, even though he talks about people all the time, if he is not in the Senate or the House. There he is. It's just House rules. Just the White House, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Like they know. No rules. Because they were trying to pass that resolution, which you're probably going to get to, I imagine. Uh, no. Okay. Yeah.

They were just trying to pass the resolution. Because we covered that in the, in the, in the Philly show, but. Ah, yeah. Yeah. Because she got up and called his remarks racist, and he her that's tricking from the record and her argument was I'm not saying he's racist. I'm saying that I mean he's racist. I mean reactions are you But for the decorum rules. I wasn't calling him a bad name. I was saying his words were this right? I was characterizing his words and so then he glombed onto that like an idiot saying mm-hmm

See she said I'm not racist She said it's just my words. Yes. I can't believe this is even happening Right and that it's being cloaked as a battle of words like the Democrats are saying the words are racist They're saying the words were not racist right and nobody is able to talk about the issue shit person Totally these races. Yes, and on top of that, we have the whole anti-Semitism element of this argument that even if, because I'm not Jewish, I can't say for a fact that something wasn't offensive to a Jewish community that came out of, you know, Ilhan Omar's mouth, but I do think that there are some races who are racists against Jewish people

hiding behind that. It's like, I don't know if you guys can talk about that. Because I, you know, I can say that, for example, that the NRA, it's all about the Benjamin's. And that's not a racist or anti-Semitic thing to say. But if I say that the APAC or the, you know, the conference that supports Israel really hardcore is all about the Benjamin's Then I'm an anti-Semite. Yeah, because it's triggering, you know, and then reference to some people to a trope is trope Yeah, racist tropes. So probably best case scenario not to call a group of Jewish people all about the money. Yes That wasn't her intent and she did apologize and acknowledge that she did it. Which is really important. People will forget that.

And talk to her constituents too about it and it was like just incredibly open. Yeah, because everyone can grow. Even Trump, if he just actually owned up to shit, could grow. He just refuses to at every turn. No, yeah, I mean, this whole thing is denied, denied, denied, accused the other side of the same thing. You're supposed to be pure and I can do whatever I want. Like, where do you go from there, right?

But yeah, it is tough. And we've talked about this on past episodes. If you want to criticize the government of Israel, it's really hard to not be called an anti-Semite by this administration or by Republicans. The same people that say Jews will not replace us, right? Those guys. Yeah, yeah.

Walmart towards guys. Totally fun guys. No one for soil, those same. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, that's what really sucks about people with actual swastikas on their bodies Calling us anti-Semitic for criticizing the government. Yeah, it was my mind Well, I'm part of like criticizing the Jewish people right is by connecting them to money Which is a force that more or less governs everything you can use them as a scapegoat when you're trying to totally

Go through real issues as well. So it's just like that more or less governs everything, you can use them as a scapegoat when you're trying to totally go through both ways. To go through the real issues as well. So it's just like, yeah, actually. Yeah, another distraction, but also something that needs to be addressed. And that's why she acknowledged it and apologized. She was like, oh, I was just saying that they're bought by, like this group of Republicans is bought by money.

Right, which is also effect. Money is a huge part of our relationship with Israel. And that's not the nine point. I guess as a Congressperson, or I guess as a public figure, just be careful about saying that any group of people who are specifically Jewish. To wish all about the Benjamin. Right. Because Trump is all about the Benjamin. I mean, he said, Saudi Arabia can kill whoever they want because they're giving us money.

Right. That's all about the Benjamin. Right. And she knew it was that. Oh, she did. Yeah. She was like, good point. She's like, look, it's that. And then I said it and it's a trope. And I should have been aware of that. It's not what I meant. And I do apologize if anyone was offended by it. Like a fucking one-hour moment.

Yeah, that's how it should be. Yes, because underneath, she is not a racist and the other person is. Yeah, and I think it's still important. But are her words racist? Right. And if that happens, then they pass something condemning it, didn't they?

Exactly. Yeah, they condemned it. And that's how you do that. It's like, we're here too. No, it's here too. I remember back when that happened. Oh, yeah, they passed her resolution. But it was pretty, but it was pretty watered down, quote unquote.

Right. It's just a Republican general. And like an in general anti-Semitism resolution. And good. So be it. If people were offended, then yeah, let's address it. And then let's move on And if she doesn't do offensive things repetitively then that problem is done

But Trump is like a whole different thing. This is his factory Yeah, and nobody's mad about signing a non-antistimetic bill I mean, yeah cool. In fact probably there were Republicans who didn't sign it. I'm sure. Oh, yeah, like oh this is Against racism. Yeah, I can't be part of it. Well, and why does it I could be wrong? No, they might have voted for it You might have been you know, yeah, yeah, and then why does she come out or what is she not get to come out and You know, I'm not saying she should have done this but for her to say, you know This is insane for you to call me an anti-Semite and to push back so hard on that like Trump is pushing back It's very indicative again of how different the situations are

and that he's trying to reference her again. Now, and her anti-semitism quote unquote, when he's going through this, it's just so offensively ironic and critical. Projectionist, it's classic projection. It's classic like pizza gate. And then all of a sudden we have Epstein. Like it's just, oh yeah, that's right, Epstein. And all of a sudden we have Epstein like it's just oh, yeah

That's right Epstein and all of this yeah, we still have After all They're not just racists their peddhas. Oh, okay, you were Racist and rapist yeah, man, oh, though somebody brought up and I'm not sure if I would I think about this But they said are they really peddophiles And I was like, yeah, yes, if they're under 17 like if they're 16 What about that a preference of yeah, girls? No, it's a pedophile right? We actually had this conversation before and I disagreed Kiss technically. There's another word for it. Oh, what's the word? Oh, like teens. Yeah, I don't know

13 included in that. I don't know exactly all I'm saying I remember I think it came up when like Roy Moore was a person in question or something or I for yeah, but At least yeah I know it's awful. I mean I hesitate to even bring up the point because then people can be like we are giving Field to the fire that it's not the worst thing I don't think you are I appreciate the point Yeah, I think it's important to know what we at yeah criminally. It's different morally. It's not the worst thing ever. I don't even think you are, I appreciate the point. Yeah, I think it's important to know what they call it. Yeah, criminally it's different. Morally it's all the same.

Yeah. And what was I gonna say? Oh, about power and sense. Something about racist and rapist that I find is that they don't believe they are who they are. They often don't think they're racist. They often don't think they're rapist. And they actually have really defensive if you call them

either of those things. Exactly. And here we have someone who's the president, who is potentially, not even potentially, I'm just gonna say he's both. Maybe we need nicer snowflake words to start the conversation. Because I mean, the minute you say that what you just said is racist, you're going to not be able to have

a constructive conversation. True. Which is hard to begin with, a Trump. And if you want to have, I mean, I guess you could be like, do you think you're general? I mean, you could, I guess, you could talk it soft you think your general, I mean, you could, I guess you could talk it soft for these snowflakes. How many accusations until you're called a race or a rapist? Like, I think the thing is like,

What is it? Yeah. And you want to ask them, racist and rapist. Like, if that isn't racist language, like these Trump supporters, Right. What he's called is not racist. What is? And he has been caught in the act.

Yeah. And you think about it. So the raping stuff is slightly different. Not that it's not as bad, but it's just, we weren't there. We only know what he said about it and what they said about it. Like do I specifically have to say, I don't like black people because of the color of their skin in order for me to be called a racist?

Do I have to see you beating up a black person to know that your racist? No, not at all. Well that doesn't even count because then they can be like, oh, well, it was in self-defense. yeah yeah you have to literally say the words because that's what happened with uh w commau bell he does that the United States of America he's down in the south talking to members of the kkk members of the kkk who are sitting there talking to him saying well you're really nice and and they actually say words like I think most blacks are mongrels or animals or whatever.

And then he asks them, like, when did you become so racist? And they literally say, I'm not racist. Mm-hmm. Well, then what is? Yeah, it's like the pet of our mind. In your movie spotlight who said, oh, I never enjoyed it. Or Alan Dershowitz saying, but I kept my underwear on. Like, there's always this justification. Like, he should. You just called me less than a human for being black.

If that is not racist, then what the fuck is? What is? And I'm actually scared to know what your definition is. I don't think it ends. I think it's an infinity of racism and, you know, rapists out there. They will just go as far as they can. And that's how you end up with these people who are in power doing it. Yeah And how do we get here? Especially considering he had a face-to-face interaction with someone that they generally put into the Mongrel pool and had a good interaction with them.

So races can be nice to people that they think should not see that. And you think that might be like, hey, maybe take everything on a case-by-case basis, I guess, in about say, general shit. Because they are. They are actually taking it on a case-by-case basis, I guess. I'm not saying general shit. They are. They are actually taking it on a case-by-case basis. So why do you think that?

Yeah. I mean, they're not in my gender. Why in real life? They are in real life. Right. It's not even generalizing because things they say are so horrible. I don't think they apply to any human being. To regular generalization.

Yes, exactly. But in your brain, you're generalizing whatever few, maybe things that were even told to you, you didn't even experience them. They were told to you. Yeah, absolutely. But I know. And Epstein, this Thursday morning,

I think he was denied bail. They, the judge shut him down. And we knew he would be. Right, right. I think he's gonna be on jail for the rest of his life. So the judge shut him down. And we knew I we knew he would be right. I think he's going to be in jail for the rest of his life. So the judge basically said he was a huge flight risk total threat to the community because he indimedated and tampered with witnesses. He has a fake passport. He skipped his sex offender check ins and he's got a ton of looed material that they found in his safe and diamonds and $70,000 cash and a private

jet. Like if this isn't the, you know, yeah, situation for like a textbook races with, or rapes with money and, and, and, right, flight risk. Yeah. Like, he's not a flight risk. Then literally can fly away out of that courtroom. Literally what is?

Yeah, he totally can just walk out, get on his little space man goodbye. I'm glad. Precisely. Also the judge in the Cohen case released the unredacted version of the 895 page warrant documents. And as we discuss later in the episode from Philly,

the Southern District of New York was investigating the Trump organization's role in the hush money payments with Cohen and the acquirer. But right after Bar was confirmed, the prosecutor overseeing the case, Robert Cusami stepped down with no explanation. And then the investigation just stopped. He was the deputy assistant USIO I think US attorney to bourbon who had who's recused himself from all

these cases. So they maybe you know installed somebody more friendly and this week a federal judge confirmed there'd be no charges as if to say he was seemed mad like I feel like he was, there's no charges in this case, which I think is bullshit. So I'm releasing the public needs to know what happened here. I'm taking all the red action bars off of all the Cohen documents and I'm releasing them. So we got a big trove of those.

And then we got another set of them the next day. And there's a lot of stuff in there, including the confirmation that Stormi's lawyer Keith Davidson and Cohen were in goods. It was a racket like we thought and that Hopix lied to Congress. She'll probably get off on a technicality because she said she wasn't present during conversations about Cohen and the Hush Money Payment. But they were an email. She was on the phone. Oh, okay. She's like when they were calling a role, I actually said here. Yeah. So I didn't say present. Yeah, that's great. calling role I actually said here. Yeah, so I didn't say Proud That. Yeah, that's great.

Sorry, not being sexist. I just immediately go into that voice. You know, it's just a character. It's just a character. Like, what if you didn't do it? It would be sexist, I don't think. Yeah, it's a character. You gotta have lady characters.

You do. In response, she's just a terrible character. It wasn't like an accent or something, like a racist thing. True, it was, yes. If I was ever referencing something you said though, Jolissa, I'm in another conversation. I would definitely not use that for you. That's fair.

That's for you. Or you. Thank you, fellas. Let us know how you're filming in my life. What's your response? Your impersonations of us. We'd like to. So anyway, she lied to Congress.

And in response, Jerry Nellor has sent a letter to her inviting her to clarify her bullshit testimony. So we'll see how that goes. These documents indicate that Hicks, Trump, and Cohen, like I said, were on the phone quite a bit when hashing out the payment details for Stormy and how to handle the Karen McDougal thing. But in her testimony, she told Congress she wasn't present.

We also learned we were right when we thought Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen were in cahoots, like I said, because one of the guys from AMI, I think it was Dylan Howard from the inquirer, introduced them saying here I have a business opportunity for the two of you. And so they were lawyers for opposing clients, but clearly working together. Then on Friday we got another batch, like I said, of unsealed documents from the federal court in DC. And they show that Mueller had already traced the path of all of the money by July 2017. He was appointed in May. So it only took him a month and a half to get the entire story. And that's to Stormy Daniels. And

that's, you know, from the from the Home Equity line of credit that Cohen took out to essential consultants, which he created that week, to Stormy Daniels lawyer, and then eventually to Stormy Daniels. He had that whole, all that traced out. And while we're on stage, the House voted to hold bar and ross. We'll baross your buddy in criminal contempt over the citizenship question. And we know that the Southern District of New York is litigating sanctions against the Department of Justice lawyers for accusations that they basically lied about the origins of the citizenship question. Oranges.

Yeah, this is our hold me and contempt like one of your French girls, like, but there's that little long and a title there. Right. That's a good one. So the criminal contempt vote means a court can force bar and Ross to testify, and if they don't, if they just deny the court order, which they might, they're in the court to the court decides if they're going to be fined or jailed, not like Nancy Pelosi. So it's the court that gets to determine all that. So naturally, a criminal referral to the Department of Justice would be pointless since bar runs it.

Eric Holder is one of the only recent people to be found in criminal contempt by the Congress, Republican Congress, but the attorney, what is it? The US Attorney wouldn't bring charges. And I mean, that makes sense because the US Attorney works for Eric Holder. Yeah, yeah. It's going to be the same situation with Barr. So there's really no accountability once you reach that promotion. You're like home free.

That's why Michael Flynn sent that bald eagle flying away. What's the American flag? In that text message, right? One bar got confirmed. Yeah, yeah. He's like, we were home free, guys. We got him. Totally.

All right, guys. Thank you so much. That's pretty much the bulk of the news that happened after we did the show in Philly. So I just wanted to update you all on that. The daily beans comes out tomorrow. So check that out. You can subscribe to the daily beans wherever you get your podcast. That'd be cool. Do you guys have any final thoughts before we get to the stage? No, I'm just stoked for the next show. Philly was amazing. I mean, like, it gets better every time. So Chicago is next. Yeah, this Friday, Saturday, the 27th at Lincoln

Hall. Tickets are going. So there's still some left. I think the last time I checked there were some left. And thanks to everyone for all the gifts. I was wearing one of my put some beans on it shirts today and I'm wearing the news with Swear as had from David. Yeah, news of swearing. And then I I got, I've been eating my chocolate. Oh yeah, yeah. We've got our chocolate. We got, Doctorate degree, well, honorary doctorate. Yeah, we all got awarded honorary doctorate.

Yeah, yeah, shout out to David for that as well. Well, I'm a double doctor. Yeah, double the double dose of pimpness. All right, guys, we'll be right back in just a second with some more news from the stage at Philly with Andrew Torres right after this quick word. Hey guys, this is A.G. and I'm here to talk about Noom. Noom is a habit-changing app that helps you find your best health and well-being routine. They use a personalized approach to tailor plans just for you based on your goals, not societies, so they teach you why you do what you do, how to break old habits, and how to develop new ones by arming you with all

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Start losing weight for good. Ladies and gentlemen, they and them, the Philly Podfest and the World Cafe live in Philadelphia are proud to present Molar She Wrote Live. And now, please welcome the host of Moir, she wrote, A.G. Hey guys, hi! Oh, it's full, yes. Even if you just came in here for the air conditioning, I love you so much. It's nice and cold in here and I appreciate that. Thank you, let's hear it for a world cafe life. This is a great thing. Okay, funny fucked up day today, guys. This is a great fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Funny fucked up day today, guys. Usually, we do live shows on Saturdays, Friday, Saturdays, and we have a week's worth of news to pack into it. There's enough for like three shows. Just in the last couple of days since we put out the show on Sunday. So I'm really, really glad you're here. I love this town. This is my first time in Philadelphia.

So I have to figure out all the places I need to go. So if you hit me up on Twitter at Mollershi Road, tell me where I need to go, because I've got all day tomorrow and all day Friday. And then we have our special patron meet and greet tomorrow night, so that'll be fun too. What's up? Who's Patrons? Who's my Patrons?

I'm waiting right here. Woo! Thank you guys, because of you guys, we were able to offer health care to all of our staff and employees. Yeah! Even the part-timers. So I think that's important.

Because Trump said, you know, oh, we created 90 million jobs or whatever the fuck bullshit number he came up with. It's like, yeah, I got three of those jobs. Thanks. You guys a douche. You seen that video of him at the Epstein party that came out today? Dancing? Yeah, his eyebrows.

Off-fleek. I shouldn't shame. I shouldn't brow shame, I understand. I feel like Trump's just open for whatever shame I want to give him, you know? Like that guy, and Epstein. Yeah, I knew there was a lot of cheerleaders there, they're Buffalo Bills girls. I think he was trying to buy the Buffalo Bills, trying to get that lone situation happening. Yeah, nope. No, dick.

The Buffalo Bill is like, we don't want to be bankrupted. Thanks, though. You can't keep a casino afloat. You can't keep a casino making money. That's just math. I don't even understand how you can fail a casino. Sink a casino. Cinco Casino. Guys, I'm really excited to be here.

But as you know, it's not just me on this podcast. I'm your host, A.G. But with me, as always, are Jelisa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Yeah Running around setting down beers yes, yes, yes How's it going? We never do that. We should yeah It's hot guys, right? She's like it's so hot me and my girlfriend were walking down the

street just now, and we got interviewed by Fox News about how hot it was. Seriously. It's a night, right? Wait, everyone needs to know while she was giving that interview, she was wearing a shirt that said fake news. I was. Oh, over it.

They commented on that. Yeah, the guy was like, he literally said, you're wearing the right shirt. Like, how self-aware is that? It wasn't that Fox News, I guess, though, yeah. But local guys are cool. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I'm really stoked to be here.

This is my first time in Philly, too. Yeah, hell yeah. I love places. I always think of Will Smith, like the Fresh Prince. But that was Bellaire, so then there's not much. It was a toss between Hollinotes and the Fresh Prince of Bellaire. Oh, Hollinotes is from here too.

Hi! That's pretty good for you guys, oh yeah. That's dope. Hollinotes. They stayed together through so much. That speaks to your city. How can I bring you guys? Hollinotes, that's so crazy. It's good people to. I heard you guys, Holano said so crazy.

It's good people to be associated with in my book. They don't have any accusations of. No, they have no accusations. They're great. Good, good. Nice. Sweet. Awesome.

You just got to wonder these days. It's all good. Tomorrow, news at 6. Holano had seen an Epstein part. I don't want to jinx it. I don't want to say I'm psychic, but, you know. But this is great. I have good vibes.

Despite the weather, good vibes about the people. You guys are amazing. Thank you for being here. And yeah, I guess we're going to get this thing started, right? We guys, we're going to be working on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah, and now we're going to go on script here.

Oh, yes, very. We can't thank you enough Philadelphia. City of Brotherly Love. Home of Benjamin Franklin. A guiding light for the Revolution. Side of the first and second continental Congress. The birthplace of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

Cool. Cool documents. Cool documents. That's all right. Anyway, we're super glad to hear with us tonight. But now, we would also like to welcome our third panelists. Please welcome co-host of the Opening Arguments podcast, Real Life Lawyer, Andrew Torres.

Woo! Well, first thing we do, first thing we do every show, it's time to kick off with my favorite new segment, Corrections. corrections. Yeah, all right. So according to some emails we received regarding our question about whether witness tampering charges require an underlying proceeding. It appears there does not need to be a case underway. Andrew, we were discussing this in light of the bail response in the Epstein case. I call it Epstein. I don't care

what you call it. In fact, I hope it's wrong because Steve. So we're talking about that, where the prosecution and the legislature made $350,000 in payments to two co-conspirators named in the non-prosicution agreement, and we're wondering if he could be charged with witness tampering or obstruction of justice since he had not yet been indicted when he made those payments. And so somebody emailed us and said, no, you can totally charge someone with witness tampering. In that case, why was he not charged with that? Hmm, privilege.

Oh, sorry. I didn't press the buzzer. LAUGHTER Uh, because those cases are never brought, right? I mean, it's true, but yeah, that those cases are never brought. Why not? Because they don't want to waste the time of starting it if it's not going to... turning, you know, it going to turn into a whole.

So if I'm going to steal man, like the other side of the justice system, which, like, that's a tough role for me to be in. But like, if you're going to do that, it's because you don't want witnesses to be thinking while they're on the stand, am I going to be subject to criminal prosecution? Right, and so the entire process is super deferential to, right, it's meant to protect people who are scared. Well, I don't want the people who he paid to be charged, I want him.

Right, that'd be weird to be charged. Yeah, me too. Okay, that kind of reminds me about how people that are testifying in front of Congress don't want to get in charge with Perdry, right? Because they want a formal referral to be had for that to happen because they don't want people to be scared to misspeak. But like, misspeaking versus paying for $150,000 to not talk about your creepy child sex behavior.

That's pretty cool. I'm pretty sure everyone's like, that's Epstein, fuck that guy. Yeah, because our founding fathers were like super, you know, noble-minded and they're like, what if a person is afraid of X-Y? They weren't thinking like, what if a person is a billionaire with a private island

who's going to like, they just didn't occur to them and now we're in the darkest possible timeline and things are fucked beyond beliefs. Your team can occur. Yeah. Alright. To Matt. Yeah, it's interesting. Guys, I have some good news.

That was our only correction this week. Woo! Woo! And it was me, not them. Congrats, team. That's like going to be a record, right? It is. That's a record, one mistake.

Yeah. And I thought, like, maybe I'd start planting innocuous errors into the podcast to generate more corrections, but that's fake news, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. Good point. That's also very confident on our part. Oh, bro, I'm just saying, guys.

Because we're so smart. But you know, and I do like to get more corrections, because I frankly, I like the compliment sandwiches that you guys send. We get two compliments for every correction based on the form we created online. So it's nice. Remember, if you have any corrections for us, head to mullershearote.com, click contact, and then select corrections.

Our slogan is, we'll get it right eventually. And with that out of the way, guys, it's time for the molar news, which we have turned into a quiz for live show purposes. Are you guys ready to play just the facts? Yes. No, not at all. All right, so we're going to turn this into a quiz for a panelist, so long with open discussions about these facts or conjecture, if you will.

And, you know, we like to differentiate between the two. about these facts or conjecture, if you will. And, you know, we like to differentiate between the two. We used to have a thing where if you got a question wrong, I'd make you wear a MAGA hat. Right, and it used to be funny, but now it's like putting a KKK hood on somebody. That thing has become a symbol of hate and terrible racism, misogyny, rapist, fuck, shit. So I can't do it anymore in good conscious.

It's actually become that to me. I don't know if that makes sense to you guys. So no Maga shaming. I mean, shaming you guys with Maga hats. We will shame Maga all day. All right, Jalisa, this one's for you. This week, Amy Berman, Judge Jackson, if you're nasty. Oh yeah.

Found that Roger Stone most definitely violated his gag order by posting on social media yet again about his trial. What was his punishment for that? She basically grounded him like the naughty boy he is. Yes. That is correct. Roger Stone is grounded. Judge Jackson modified his gag order to say Roger Stone

is prohibited from making public statements about his case, the Mueller probe, or any participants in the Mueller investigation, or his case, using radio broadcasts, interviews on television, on the radio, with print reporters, internet-based media, press releases, and press conferences, blogs, or letters to the editor, and posts on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or any other forum of social media.

Furthermore, he cannot have statements made publicly on his behalf by Syracuse family members, spokesperson, representatives, or volunteers. Not two fucking hours later. Two hours, that is 0.007 Scaramucci's. Two hours after Judge Jackson expanded the gag order, Roger Stone's wife posted a photo of the two of them after the hearing with the caption Me and my husband Roger Stone after his hearing today Hashtag Roger Stone did nothing wrong Stone defense fun.com hashtag Kaga hashtag Trump

Wait, what was that second the last one? one? Caga, keep America great again. Oh, okay, that's like Caga, like. That's a really poor branding choice to just switch it. They spent so long investing in it. Well, they made it great, it's great now. Right. It would kind of be counterproductive to run again, saying make America great because everyone would be like,

you're right, it's still fucking sucks because of you. And it was great before and you wrecked it. And now they're like, okay, keep America great because everyone would be like, you're right, it's still fucking sucks because of you. And it was great before and you wrecked it. And now they're like, okay, keep America great. Is that grammatically correct? Keep America great again? Again. Again. It's the can.

We kept it great the first time, then we stopped and then we started again. That's true. None of their base is asking these questions. These are the questions they need time. They're not thinking about the grammatical problems who they're slogging. That is my favorite point I think you've ever made.

The sides of the two Russians getting arrested and the creating refugee status crises to help combat them yourself, lighting fires but keep America great. Again. Also, I think he's saying it before Trump has even said it too, which is quite an under sweep. No, he's low key so it cockahats now for 222.

Oh really? Yeah, that's it. I feel like they need a kangaroo as their mascot. Right? So after all that. So as well email them. I'll get money for it. Okay.

So as wife posts this two hours later, 0.007 scared Mochis later, which just leaves me wondering, somebody married Roger Stone? That should be a hashtag. Sure. All right. Well, he was a swinger back in the day.

I think swingers like swingers, you know, like, that could be a thing. Maybe in order to wife swap, you have to have a wife. So he went out and found one. No judgment. Hey, I'm off for that shit. That's cool. You know, whatever you like to do, as long as you're not Roger Stone. Hey, guys, this is A.G.

We hope you're enjoying Andro Torres and Mollershi Road live in Philly. We'll return with the incomparable Aasharangapa after this quick word. Hey guys, this is A.G. and I'm happy to announce that the neighborhood watch is back, and it's way more convenient than it used to be. Remember, neighbors meeting up, but someone's house on the Thursday talking about things going on in the hood, keeping each other safe, looking out for each other. Well, now that neighborhood watch is an app on your phone, and the app is called Neighbors, and it's by Ring. That's the company behind those doorbells and security cameras with the video where you can see people come up to your

door. And with the Neighbors app, you receive real-time safety alerts from your neighbors. It helps you stay informed about what's going on in your neighborhood. And it's totally free. You don't even need to own a ring device. So I downloaded the free app. I was able to set my neighborhood area using the really easy map filter. And so far, it's been great. I've gotten to know my neighbors. We've been able to recover lost pets and missing packages. I remember one guy lost his dog and was going around door-to-door and somebody saw the dog on their ring camera and they put the alert on the thing and he got his dog. It was cool. So, you know, and then also we get to know if there's any safety alerts nearby, so that's really nice or any like traffic closures or whatever's weird going on.

So it's really about neighbors helping neighbors. I really think it's great. The app is making it easier for neighbors to work together, keeping the community safe. There's millions of people using it already. So if you want to help make sure you and your neighborhood are safe, download the free neighbors app today. Totally free.

Go to ring.com slash AG to download from iOS or Android app stores. That's ring.com slash AG. Make your neighborhood safer today with the neighbors app by ring. You'll be glad you did. Jordan, the judge in the Michael Flynn case this week had responded to Flynn's attorneys complaint

that his old attorneys have not yet handed over all the files. What is the judge's name in Flynn's DC trial and what is the name of his new crazy lawyer? Okay the judge's Ed Sullivan. Is it not Ed Sullivan? No, Ed Sullivan shows that. Is it a different Sullivan? Wait, and for you now, right here in our court. Wait, what's his first name? You know what? Judge Sullivan works. Okay. No, no, no, I can't be wrong. I just want to know what's right. But was that on a shirt? Okay, sorry. Okay. I think it just can't. I mean, it did. What is, what is, what is the real one? Oh, it's Emmett Sullivan. Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's just like the old name. That's the old name, doesn't it, right?

Yeah, okay, well, sorry. Sullivan and Sidney Powell. Yes. Yes. Sullivan Emmett, and Sidney Powell. It's not Emmett, see, it's just Emmett, Emmett, T. Flood is who I'm thinking of. Right, cute, cute.

Yeah, and Sidney Powell, ooh, she's special. So this was a pretty creative order Judge Sullivan made in Sydney, pal. Oh, she's special. So this was a pretty creative order, Judge Sullivan made in the Flynn case. He says, in light of the representations made by Defense Council regarding the delay in receiving the client's files, the court hereby gives notice and orders to the parties that the courts intent

to invite a senior legal ethics council for the District of Columbia Bar Association to attend the status conference and explain on the record to Flynn's lawyers the applicable rules for professional court conduct. Mr. Flynn's former counsel shall attend the status conference. Can I jump in here on this one? So Michael Flynn's former counsel are two people. I would not describe them as friends of mine, but I would describe them as assholes that I have worked for before at the law firm of Covington and Burling.

Any Covington lawyers in the audience? Oh, thank God. So good. I can keep going, right? Rob Calner, who was my class, whom I have seen vomited to a trash can before. True, true story. And Steve Anthony, who gave me a negative performance review

when I was a young associate. Those are Michael Flynn's lawyers, and notwithstanding the garbage introduction that I just gave, they're really fucking good lawyers. Look, look, look, they're super smart. They're at Covington in Berlin, which has 98 billion lawyers. Like, it's a great firm.

They're smart lawyers, everything else. And when Michael Flynn fired them, that's right. Like when you're like, hey to your office, why don't we delete this Microsoft Word on our computers and replace it with ugo soft letters. Like people should be curious about that. So he's the Zoom MP3 player. Yes. He is the exactly right.

OK. I just want to point out, I have no idea if this is still the case. But as of eight years ago, when he died, that person who was a really, really good friend of mine, the senior ethics counsel for the District of Columbia was a Covington and Burling partner. So I just thought you'd like to know that. Right, so there you go.

I just think it's so funny that Solomon's like, all right, your lawyers have to come in. We're having an ethics guy come in to give you a fucking lesson on professionalism. Yeah, thank you. I'm thinking to come in and be like, hey Rob, how's it going? You finished off that memo yet

No, all right having on my desk a Monday cool. Hey, didn't give you didn't you give me a bad performance review one time? I Have a quick can I ask a quick question to Andrew? What is a threshold for Inethical violation for an attorney that's peddling conspiracy theories and for an attorney that's peddling conspiracy theories and crazy things because how do they sort that out? What is OK? Yeah, like are you allowed to be a lawyer and have a website called Creeps on Emission about the Mueller investigation? Right. All right, I'm going to reveal more secrets.

Who all is a lawyer in the audience tonight? Put your hand up. It's like, Florida. The guy in the suit. Okay, right. So we're confident guys. There's a lot of years coming. Right. So to you four people, I just want you to know,

snitches get stitches. OK? Keep it on the DL to everybody else. So are lawyers like magicians? Where if you get away or secret, somebody comes at you in the night and takes your thumbs away or something? It did. We'll talk. Because you pay it like, yeah.

So, so here's the thing. And these four, like these, the only four people, like four people are about to laugh. And 196 people are about to cry. The way in which you get disbarred as a lawyer is by comingling your clients' funds. Right? That's the only fucking thing you have to do. Oh, Avinod, yeah. Right.

You can lie. You can like, oh no, website that's like Donald Trump did nothing wrong.com. You can do anything you want. And there's all sorts of like there's 13 layers of disciplinary bullshit. But if you don't steal your clients's retainer, like you're probably not going to get this barred. Great news, although metaphor it was disbarred. So that's great.

Yeah, it's no great. Alternatively, if you sell our government out to the Russians, I didn't think we had to say that. Yeah, somehow you were only going to sell it in a half years. There we go. OK, cool. Andrew Torres, question for you. We finally got proposed language for a permanent injunction regarding the citizenship question today.

Both cases, permanent language, no citizenship question on the census. Wait, wait, wait. Let's get a woo from the audience on that. Yeah. Yeah. Pause for reaction. I haven't written here. I'm surprised. Oh, that's great. So your question, I know, right? So where were these two cases being litigated? So those two cases were

being litigated in the Southern District of New York and the, yeah, woo, SDNY represent, woo, and the, woo, SDNY represent, woo, and the District of Maryland? Yes, congratulations. And additionally today, the Southern District of New York, in that case, the plaintiffs have formally filed their motions for sanctions against the government accusing the government officials of hiding facts and presenting false or misleading information

about the genesis of the citizenship question. So that's fucking good news. That's true, by the way. And that's one of the reasons the judges were like, you can't just swap your lawyers out. These guys are still, they're still litigation pending. There's still sanctions under review, or we're about to file them. They did file them.

And so, in light of the Huffler documents, I'm a huge man with two brains fan, but not a huge fan of racist gerrymandering. So I call him Huffler. Oh, I love it. Wait, what's the man with two brains thing? Yeah. Oh.

Okay, so there's no Steve Murray movie. So the division on this panel just became clear. It's an Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie.

So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie.

So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin movie. So there's no Steve Martin the man with two brains. Steve Martin, he's got a brain in a jar. Steve Martin's name is Dr. Huffar.

And her name is Amelde. I just thought you were saying that weird for fun. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I invented it. No, I did not. That is a man with two brains reference.

Anyway, in light, is do you think this is in light of the fuller documents? And what happens if the court finds that the Department of Justice did hide facts or present false information? What is this sanctions filing? What happened? And I need to say before he goes into this answer

that we've had an agreement already that I'm allowed to interrupt him at any time. And he's allowed to interrupt me at any time. So if that happens, we're not being dicks, which is what the lady now. Because the answers are never, I want short answers, but I'm not a lawyer, and they're never short. So what happens?

The place file, you guys misled, you use false statements, false reasons for the genesis of this question. What could happen to them? Yeah, no so A couple of things number one if anybody in the audience gets mad at AG for interrupting me I will kick you in the genitals, okay? All right, so don't do that Right guys. She's fantastic two I like I like having that to be the one. Two.

The sanctions, so you will see in the news that the lawyers representing the Department of Justice here have agreed to a stipulated entry of an injunction, which says that the census department will not, and it's got the classic legalese. It's like, will not put a citizenship question on the census, will not talk about putting a citizenship question on the census, will not think about putting a citizenship question on the census, that's the injunction that was entered and it's a consent order, right? So the government

has agreed to that. That does not moot the fact that for a year and a half the Trump administration has lied to two district courts, to two circuit courts, and the Supreme Court of the United States of America. Right, they were saying the reason we're doing this is because we want to bolster the Voting Rights Act. When the fact the reason they were doing it was to racist, collegiate, and demander districts for Republican whites. So if it's found, if the court finds in favor that they did that, does it get referred to the Department of Justice and Barg just shits on it? No, they can take those lawyers and they can make those lawyers pay money.

They can introduce to me. Well, not to you, but I kind of feel like they should. Look, we've been on the forefront of this, so I think we should get our cut. The court has broad powers of control over lawyers that are before it, and this is really, really serious. And this is one of the things, like, look, we all know here that we have a criminally insane game show host as president, right? And we know that he has a network of sick offense who are in high-level positions, some of whom slipped in and we didn't realize it, oh bar, right? But one of the things, I'm a lawyer, so call me overly optimistic, but one of the things that I think is going to get us through this is the fact that there are two million executive branch employees.

And two million people aren't Trump loyalists, right? They're not sick of fans and idiots and morons and criminals. But do these lawyers go to jail? Did they find anything? No, you can do all of those. So the court has said that I'm sorry. She's right. Interruptions, that was a good one.

It, the court can do whatever they want. And lawyers don't fucking want the court to do that. So you saw that, right? Like when they were arguing it, they were like, I'm so sorry, 1,000 pardons, 1,000 pardons, judge, I don't know what the fuck this tweet is about. You know as much as I do. So sorry, 16 years I've been here.

Gardener, I think his name was. I mean, 16 years. I'm like, ooh. Ha. Tweets, am I right? And that was pretty much his whole fucking defense on that call, like, fuck my career, I could be, you know,

sanctioned or whatever and be fucked, and you know, he's like, ooh, it's really sad to watch him have to go through that. I mean, fucking really, but it was sad to watch him have to go through that. Here's the thing, lawyers working for the DOJ right now are not gonna be working for the DOJ five years from now. And that's not like a political thing.

That's just like, this is part of the stepping stones in you getting a big partner law firm job somewhere else or you're deciding to go sell commercial lighting in Hawaii or what? I like your confidence that Trump will be voted out in 2020. Yeah, yeah. Our next president, Elizabeth Warren. He spoke it like it was truth.

That's what we got to do. It's the secret up in this bitch. We just got to be like, you fucking God and then, we got all new DOJ. We're all in agreement. Vote in numbers large enough that they can't steal this away from you, right? Yep.

That's it. I stole that. Don't click, don't click me. By Prairie G, that's her line. So. I'm sure I stole it from somebody. It's cool. Yeah. Well, nobody else on this stage. So there you go. Then I came up with it totally.

That and Hufflepah. All me. Julisa, this week Nancy Pelosi caused a ruckus, um, according to Fox News, on the House floor, during a vote to condemn Trump's racist tweets by saying what forbidden word? They know, they know. For a forbidden word, wow, that's weird. That's right, she, there's a houseboat Friday

to condemn the president's racist language. It was called the condemnation of the president's racist language. And just by reading the title of it, objection, no man. Strict from the record. Aim is stupid fuck face. And I think it was Doug Collins. He's like, no, I wouldn't need to reword the madame

do you want to do. And he was just a butthole. And then the parliamentary guy who was that cleave guy, He's like, no, I wouldn't need to reword the maddened you want to do and he was just a butthole and then the parliamentary guy Who was that cleave guy? He was like fuck this. I'm not voting against this shit. He leaves and then everyone's like, well, what do we do? And then eventually what happened is she won she got to keep her language in the record Which is huge huge. And the house voted to overrule the parliamentarian, which is nice. And it was poor Lenny Hoyer, is that his name? Had to get up there and be like, ah, Stenny. Lenny. It's Lenny and Squiggy, right, Leverton Shirley? Yeah. That's him, Lenny Hoyer. Oh. I'm going to call him that from now on. But pretty balzy for a lady that won't open an impeachment

inquiry. The house did vote to condemn Trump's racist language. And now he's got a bump in points from his base, and he's running on this. And I'm like, just open an impeachment inquiry. God damn it. Because at least we'll get more than having to decide to call him a racist on the record,

and maybe there'll be some fucking crimes that we can uncover, but that's just me. No, it's not. Everyone agrees with me. Yeah. Yeah. And the sad part is only four Republicans voted to condemn the president.

Dude, that's like a high number relatively. With their track record? Yeah. That's quadruple of the amount of Republicans. And then I don't think that's counting the guy that's defected from the party entirely in his own dependent, which is an ultimate ex-Republican. Yeah. It was four plus a mosh, right?

Yeah. So five. Woo! Yeah. So five. Woo! Yeah. And now, cool. Right? It's hot here. It's purls.

Yeah. So five Republicans aren't racists. Okay. Cool. I can say that, yeah. Yeah, let's not go that far. That's generous. Jordan, over the past week or so Jeffrey Epstein has been

requesting to be let out on bail while he waits trial for sex trafficking, raping, children. But each time the plaintiffs reveal something new, it's like whack-a-mall. The last time we found out what they found in his safe $70,000 cash of fake passport and what third item Yes Yes, that is correct Right now there seems to be a bit of a dispute about the passports plural But first we heard he had an expired passport from Saudi Arabia Then we heard Austria. Well as it turns out it wasn't a passport

Then we heard Austria. Well, as it turns out, it wasn't a passport. It actually is a passport from the 80s issued by Austria, showing him as a resident of Saudi Arabia. Totally legal and totally cool. Epstein is claiming that he had a fake passport saying that he lived in Saudi Arabia because he's Jewish and he wanted to protect himself if he ever fell victim to airline hijackings. Quote, the passport was for personal protection in the event of travel to dangerous areas, only to be presented to potential kidnappers, hijackers, or terrorists should violent episodes occur. Like con air.

Like one of those. I cannot think of a level of higher white privilege than that. I need fake government illegal documents to protect me from hijackings, because on my private jet. Right. Right. Can you re-ex-like,

put yourself into a stupid person's brain and try to explain that again? What is the connection between, what did he said something about a connection between being Jewish and being? Well, he's Jewish and he would travel a lot to the Middle East to traffic underage growth. I mean, to just visit.

Right, right, right. And as a Jewish person, traveling a lot in the Middle East, dangerous areas for a Jewish person to travel, Saudi Arabia, whatever you know, that's what they do. Oh, to hijack his entire private jet because he's Jewish. So he could be on a plane around his private jet, somebody would hijack or kidnap him, and he would be like, no, no, I am from Saudi Arabia. Oh, okay.

Via Austria. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. It's why I kind of look white, but I live in, you know, it's just his protection to say he's not Jewish, basically. Okay, I forgot that I had a private jet for a second. I thought he was just saying like, any plan I walk on is like, I mean, obviously it's all ridiculous, but okay, cool. Thank you. This just, I'm sorry, what were you going to say?

Oh, I was just in shock. I wasn't going to say anything. Yeah, that's all so ridiculous. I mean, my mom complained one time about breaking a nail trying to open champagne. And the nail lady wasn't open that day. And it was like the universe was trying to keep her from going to Europe.

Right. This beats that. But we found out today, just before we got here, the government responded to this. I never used the passport. I had it for hijacking and kidnappings. Like everyone has that, right? Totally normal.

But I never used it. Well, the government responded today. You have shitload of stamps on here. From France, Spain, UK, and Saudi Arabia, ingress and egress stamps on your passport. Bullshit. And so now he'll probably respond again with some other dumb thing. And the government would be like, actually, we found out this.

Like every time he says something, the government has this really great response to it. And I can't wait for it to come to fruition. Yeah, that should be its own segment. Like, wait, there's more. Yeah, dude, he has like a married pop in safe. Oh, just the worst thing ever. Can't wait or some weird words to use there. Yeah, I know, I know.

Ha ha, gross. Torres, Mr. Torres, who failed to respond to her House Oversight Committee subpoena this week to answer for her multiple violations of the hatch act? She clearly needs a lessons from an ethics advisor who can maybe give her some advice. Yeah.

On a not-violet Hatch Act, who is it? Yeah, that is everyone's favorite Twitter troll, Kellyanne. Oh, Kellyanne. Yes, your favorite White House advisor that looks like she stared directly into the arc of the covenant. I... Who, who, by the way, one year prior to the Trump campaign

could not get hired to like pull a district dog catcher race in Racine, Wisconsin. Yeah. Wait, can I run for district dog catcher? Yeah. I would totally be good at that job. No, she's, she's a poll. She's a third-rate

Pulster who has run out of every decent Midwest You're gonna sleep, pull to her guys, and I was gonna be on board with them Move the headstones, put the two of your head in Move the bodies All right, yes, so she they asked her to come in voluntarily. She did not they subpoenaed her She ignored it now they're threatening to hold her in contempt. I just don't see how this matters unless she's ordered by a court to appear and then doesn't.

And then the White House isn't defyance, or she's in defiance of a court order. But I suppose we could hold her in criminal contempt, but that would end up being referred to the Department of Justice, which is where Bill Barr is, and he's not going to do anything. So we need an impeachment inquiry, if not, to Trump, at least, into Bill Barr

for his blatant obstruction of justice, his handling of the release of the Mueller report, and it's complete stonewalling its entire investigation. All right, before we bring out our interview, before we bring out our interview, it's time to play the fantasy indictment lead. I don't know how we have not been sued yet. For that. Eiji, is it too late to make a Kellyanne Conway joke?

No, what is it? Okay. I mean, if she is a Pulitzer guy, maybe she was there, but we just can't see her, right? Like, it's a thinker more than a punchline, I guess. Yeah. That's fair. That's fair. Supernay joke.

That might be how she gets out of the hatch-ac. Yeah, oh. I miss a dog real. Oh, I miss a dog real. Oh, nice. Dude, that's so sick. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Maliki. Maliki, baby. Maliki, that's the... We're taking orders. This never happens at any show, only Philadelphia. I just want you guys to know. This is great. We never drink when we record anymore. And this is good times. Right now, yeah. Now we double fist. This is great. We never drink when we record anymore and this is good. This is good times right now

Now we double fist. Yeah, those patrons who heard some of those early mini-sounds of bonus content where we're like I don't even understand why Jill is I like Jill the cable. Okay. Yeah, she is a doctor. She is one of the fixed things. Yeah, man We went like full Glenn Beck on some episodes, just crying. And then I meet Andrew McCabe and his wife. And then I'm like, oh, I did a bonus mini-sode about your wife. No, I didn't, you don't want to hear that. And that was terrible.

I mean, she, I wrote a blog. She was cool with it, though. She agreed with you that he's a McBabe. So she was cool with the though. I she agreed with you that he's a big babe So she was cool with the frame. Oh, yeah, but I was so wasted during that episode. That's fair Yeah So we decided to stop doing that, but no not in Philadelphia. I see how you are So this is a midweek fantasy and diamond league so we're gonna play for fun Z's but Jordan you your pick and your picks And my picks are gonna stand for this week.

But Jalice, you didn't get to make picks because you were sick this weekend. Right, right. And we're so glad that you're well now. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you, guys. So I got to go first in the last one.

And I picked, who did I pick? I picked Flynn. Because I think he's going to be charged for his failure to registration. So you guys are already doing it. His failure to register is a foreign agent. I think he and carries a max of five years. It might be worth it for them to go after. Sometimes they don't go after it. So then it is Jolies' turn. Okay, cool. And it can involve involve the Epstein stuff or Epstein. I forget which part is.

You want to do Epstein or you want to? Well, I was going to say Alan Dershowitz. Yeah, it seems like he's something's a ruin. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Mr. Alan, I kept my underwear on Dershowitz. Yeah, Mr. Allen, I kept my underwear on, Dersuits. Yeah. Yeah. He doesn't wear boxer briefs.

I'm guaranteed it. Gross. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. Maybe it is. Me? Yeah.

Oh. My pick? Yeah. Oh. Because we have to prevent her from picking some of our picks. But, you know, we just, just, because it's to be fair, but we'll just keep our old picks. Okay. I picked Soriano as my first pick.

Oh yeah. He's like a sketchy dude that's just around all the other sketchy dudes, and that's all the evidence that's really publicly available right now. Right, right. I'm gonna bet on other sketchy dudes like a sketchy dude. Yeah, that can do that. Exactly. That's the phrase, if it qu bet on other sketchy duets. If you do it, go and sketchy dude. Yeah, that can't do this.

Exactly. That's the phrase. If it quacks like a sketchy dude, why? I'm gonna sketchy dude. I like it. Make a shirt. I'm gonna go broady. Elliot broady.

Oh. Everyone's like, I forgot about Elliot broady. Yeah. Like a totally boy. Yeah, it's like a totally creepy guy. I'm going to go state and I'm going to go Trump org. Oh! Thanks. I like how people clap in that pic. Thank you.

Appreciate it. Much love. State, though. Yeah. Because as we know, it's obviously Bill Barr is going to quash anything. Yeah. Yeah. Hi, great.

Fuck Bill Barr. That's. Yeah. Yeah. I wonder why Barr hasn't made it because he's like the highest law of the land. Yeah, he could prevent any charges. But as soon as he's out, Barr, I wonder why Bar has it made her because he's like the highest law of the land. Yeah, he could prevent any charges. Yeah, but I'm going to say for now, Trump victory, I think that'll happen first.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, Trump V. All right, I'm going to go with Lisa Korbatov, the first person question in the federal grand jury investigation in De Brog, Lisa Corpettov. I had Joel Zamol, it's my second pick. Such a good one, so good right now. Yeah, yeah. Zamol is a right person.

Motherfucker. Joel Zamol, a side group, right? Right, right. Do you shabang? All right, sir. I like all that. Cash. How about related to failure to appear for a subpoena,

I think first out of the shoot is going to be Hopix? Oh. Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Popular choice. Yeah. Popular choice. Yeah, this is so crazy that we're here just like, yeah, it's in the jail. It's like they should just be there.

They should really, she's be there. But this administration is fucking criminal. Julie, so who you got? I will go, as far as sketchy back channel things. Eric Prince. Yeah, yeah. OK, I'm going to go with Corsi. Jerome. My third guy was Roy Burstein.

Ah, Roy Burstein, yes. Who's that guy again? Zambles, buddy. Zambles and Roy were called in to testify. Yeah, I forget which one was the founder versus. Zammel was the founder, I believe. Yeah, I think it. Zammel was like a co-founder or some, yeah.

Some combination of CEO co-founder. Just making up his own titles, yeah, yeah. Just in running shit, basically, running bad shit. Definitely. So there's no chance of this now, but I'm shamelessly pandering to the crowd, and I'm gonna go with AMI. Nice.

Oh, yeah. That's a popular pick on, yeah. Jalesa. Mm. Oh my goodness. Did anyone get a, oh, you did Trump or a dammit. Nobody's done, you know what? Yeah, yeah, there's Trump.

OK, Trump victory. I want to get all the Trumps like a bingo. Trump, what else? inaugural. Thank you. Thank you. That was my next choice. She's telling her, thank you, Jordan.

All right, Trump and Noggy are all. I forget. Did you pick that on the main episode? No, I picked theoggy are all. I forget. Did you pick that on the main episode? No, I picked the organ. OK. And here, I think. OK, it's down to the wire, yeah, yeah. I'm selecting Pecker.

OK, and Tom Barich. Nice Barich. Yeah. Yeah. Look Barich. Yeah. Yeah. I look. Nice. I might as well go home. Right.

Jalisa takes my pick. A.G. takes my backup pick. Why don't I take Trump Jr.? Yeah. Yeah. Such nice people, yeah. Just rooting for imprisonment. Yeah. So such nice people, yeah, just rooting for imprisonment. They just are vending. Oh yes. The pity slash we live in the worst possible timeline class.

Those are great. Yeah, I just look out and I see the nicest smiling faces. Alright, so you see your final pick. Alright, I will go with the thing I smoked earlier. Cush. Yeah. I'm surprised you didn't pick Brittany Kaiser this week. Well, you know what, I keep thinking she's going to happen, but they haven't talked about

Camerjana Littigan a long time. I feel like they're probably still working on it. It'll happen though. Yeah. It's probably they changed their name and now they're a still working on it. It'll happen though. Yeah. It's part of it. They changed their name and now they're a whole new company, right? Yeah, ever data. Yeah.

They like to believe, but no one's like about that easy. If only changing your company name protected you from prosecution. Yeah. Hashtag Kaga. Oh. But noise. Yeah. One of these days, I want to have somebody edit a video of us sitting around in a dance circle

picking, throwing down our things and every once in a while he'd go, noise. Real quick, speaking of Bernie Kaiser, did you all know I mentioned this on the pod, but there's a whole Netflix documentary coming out. That's right. Yeah, it's do, right? It's coming out, it's supposed to be spring, it's already summer. What the fuck happened to that thing? I don't know. But I think it's coming out and she's like the center of it, right? It's coming out like, it's supposed to be spring. It's already summer. What the fuck happened to that thing? I don't know.

But I think it's coming out and she's like the center of it, right? Yeah, so it's about Britney Kaiser. And it's going to follow like her whole journey. Crimin, I guess. I'm going to watch it. Because it might take her down. I think you know what it's like to be a Brittany. Right?

Yeah. She wants to play the victim car. But I think these are the things that like Art Kelly, the whole surviving art, I mean, he didn't want that. But like these documentaries and like all this like investigative stuff is what takes people down these days So I'm all for it watch it guys. Let's hear from Miami Harold, you know, yeah, yeah All right guys, it is time for the interview and we are so excited and so lucky to be joined by our next guest She's a former FBI counterintelligence agent. She's a CNN analyst, one of my favorite people. So, Asha, we just learned today that federal judge William

Polly has said federal investigators have finished their probe into campaign finance violations surrounding the hush money payments, Southern District of New York. As we know, they are not gonna file charges against anyone in the Trump organization despite what seems to be clear evidence of wrongdoing. What do you make of the shuttering of this investigation five months ago? And is it weird that I find it weird

that that's right around the time bar was appointed and confirmed? Yeah, so in the FBI we would call this a clue. Look, you know, I, so let me be, I'll be serious here. Like, my experience being in the FBI and as a part of the Department of Justice is that I think that in general, it's very hard to pull off some kind of deep state, you know, behind the scenes kind of thing. It's a very rigid, bureaucratic environment

where every decision you make has to be documented and justified in going up the chain. And especially because this is the Southern District of New York, which is kind of known within the Justice Department as the sovereign district. Okay, the Southern District of New York tends to have a lot of independence, does its own thing. I was in the New York FBI office, also at the time when I was there, you know, was known for kind of running its own investigations. Having said that, Bart is the attorney general.

And if he can find a justification to, you know, decide that the investigation ought to be closed and there is, you know, some kind of basis, I think he could do that. And here what you have is a department of justice policy against inditing a sitting president. Okay, the charges and indictment against Michael Cohen made it very clear that he committed a felony at the direction of individual one. I mean, to me, this does not leave a lot of room that there is at least a substantial

basis to believe that the president committed a campaign finance felony. But if the argument is, we will not indict him as long as he is a sitting president, and if that is a reason that you cannot just keep the investigation open, then that would, on its face, be a legitimate basis on which to close the investigation. Well, and here's the other problem too, is the other person who signed a check

that Cohen brought in was junior. And as we know from the Mueller report, in order to commit a campaign finance violation, you have to know knowingly and willfully commit that. He's too stupid to commit that crime is basically what they found out. And because I know that everyone says ignorance of the law is no excuse, sometimes it is in some of these specific statutes. And so that might be what or why they couldn't, why they couldn't charge junior, for example, because he, no, you know, or he wasn't willfully knowingly committing a campaign finance violation, but the judge today, and this is just my opinion on how I think he was thinking.

It's not exactly probably what he meant, but he looked at this shit and went, well fuck this, I'm releasing all this shit then. You're going to get it in the next two days. Ah! More probably just like, oh well, okay, well the American public needs to know. The investigation is closed. I'm going to go ahead and release these documents even though the government has asked me to keep parts of an under seal.

That's the nice way of it. But can I just add something here? I'm excited about this. I mean, just to keep hope alive. Remember that the New York Attorney General, this is the state attorney general of New York. And this is before the current attorney general, Tish James, this is Barbara Underwood,

and then I can't even remember. Schneiderman. Schneiderman. Schneiderman. Okay. Had been- Almost made it into our sexy justice calendar, but then he got me, too.

So we had to move him in. Yeah. Yeah, two sexy. Had made it, had investigated the Trump Foundation, right? And this was a civil suit, but it resulted in them settling based on finding that essentially the Trump Foundation, in the board, which included Trump and his kids,

were using the foundation money, which is charitable funds, as their personal slush fund, okay, to buy things, including a six-but-tall portrait of himself, for $25,000. So- But, but, but, Megan Rapinoe is arrogant. So, that was a civil suit, and that foundation was shut down, but there was, you know, reporting at the time that the New York Attorney General was following leads from that into the tax implications

and other business practices of the Trump organization. And so one consequence of the Fed's shutting this down for good is that the state of New York is really free to pick this up and run with it or to go on. I mean, typically when the states and federal government are kind of overlapping, there's a little bit of comedy of let the feds go first and then the state kind of waits around until the feds are done. The feds are done. So the state can pursue this, including state tax charges, violations of state financial crimes, and importantly, the President of the United States does not have part in power over state offenses. And that Office of Legal Counsel member in the Department of Justice doesn't cover state attorneys. That's right. So Bill Barr has no oversight and the United States Department of Justice over't cover states of general. That's right. So Bill Barr has no oversight

and the other department of justice over the state attorney general. And there is theoretically nothing that bars a state from inditing a sitting president. Now, this has never been done. This would be major constitutional showdown. But I don't know, you know, Tish might be up to it.

And I definitely think in terms of going after, say, the traitor-tots, as I like to call them. There's nothing that would necessarily stop them, and the President wouldn't be able to part in that. And look, like, never been done is correct, but the state of New York indicted the sitting vice president, Aaron Burr, in 1808 for trying to fucking kill the president, right? So like that, it's, it's, if you can indict the vice president, you can probably indict

the president. Well, and then we had the ad new stuff that we found out from Bagman, incredible podcast from Rachel Maddo. Who didn't win the webby? Who won the webby? I'm sorry. I better off die.

I don't know anything like that. Wait. Whoo! I'm sorry. I got her off that. I'm not arrogant. Wait. Woo! I'm not arrogant. I'm a confident woman. I still as a woman, I'm all—I'm skinning, I'm so sorry. She's not listening.

It's okay. Okay, because I love her. So, I wanted to ask you a question because I got the nickname for Rod Rosenstein from you, Snoop Dogg. And we were like, yeah. But then later we found out he was like, I'm going to land this plane for you and all this other shit. And then you put out a piece on something called Reflexive Control, which is an active measure.

And it has a lot to do with the language that we use or that we're told that we need to use. And Rosenstein used the word collusion, crimes of collusion in his August second memo, I think, Outlining Muller's scope of his investigation into Manafort. And now I can't help but wonder if that wasn't purposeful or not, or if it wasn't purposeful, that sentence was bad.

Edit. No, I'm kidding. So, what, because Mueller's about to testify, and he goes into great depth in his report about, I didn't look at collusion, I know everyone says collusion, he even says, I know, Rod Rosenstein says collusion, it's everyone says collusion. He even says, I know Rod Rosenstein says collusion. It's not a thing. We did this. What happened to the rise and fall of Snoop Dag, I guess,

is the best way to put it? Yeah, I had high hopes for Snoop Dag. Now I kind of think of him as wormtail. Oh, yeah. That's what we call dow, just because they look the same. He's kind of wormtail. So yeah, I mean, look, I think that there are just people. I think there's a whole taxonomy of people who enable a con.

I think of it as the infrastructure of the con. And you have very corrupt people right in the middle, and we can identify who those people are. But then below them, you have enablers. And these are people who simply lack the moral courage and will go in whatever direction the wind is blowing, just as a matter of self-preservation and survival. And they're kind of almost like the saddest group

of people, you know? They're warm tail, and so that's where I think Rose and Stein falls. As far as reflexive control, this is a really important concept for Americans to understand. Reflexive control is a Russian tactic that is used in information warfare. The idea, it's like game theory, but with information. And the idea is that you feed your adversary certain assumptions, knowing that they will react in a predictable way.

And the way they react will actually further your goal because it helps them to reach a conclusion that you want them to reach, but they essentially reach it on their own. Okay, so you're being psychologically manipulated. The way that this worked with the collusion, you know, scam, basically, is, and I don't even know where the origin of this word came, like where it started, it was called collusion. Now as a legal matter, collusion does not have legal significance, it's like the legal equivalent of Jello, okay, outside of a very specific context.

We're not like Jello. Outside of very specific context, like an antitrust law, when companies collude, like price fixing, it does not have like a legal consequence. Yeah, and Mueller brought that up. He said, not only did Rosenstein use it and not only did the public and the media use it, and you might have heard, you might have seen this previous in antitrust law, and that's because of price fixing,

right? Price fixing, right. So collusion starts getting thrown around very early in discussion of the Russia probe. And the reaction from the Trump side, and his supporters were, was, collusion is not a crime, okay? Now, there are two ways you can respond to that. One is, okay, that's

correct and then you can move on from there or you can say, so what? Actually, everything that makes you unfit to be president is not a violation of the reaction was, the predictable reaction to collusion is not a crime was, well, collusion may not be a crime, but conspiracy is a crime. Now, conspiracy is a crime, but it's a narrowly defined crime. Conspiracy requires an over agreement, or an agreement between two or more people to achieve a certain objective and then an over act in furtherance of that objective. In order for it to be charged

criminally and you have to be able to prove that beyond a reasonable doubt in court and for the Department of Justice to charge it. And then sustain it in the face of appeal or you can't be exiled, or it can't be, you know, like resolve some other non-criminal way. Right, like impeachment or whatever. So, you know, and when you're dealing with foreign intelligence services, I did counterintelligence for the FBI.

I investigated foreign intelligence services. They typically are not walking into a room and saying, let's agree to commit a crime. Okay, they're not doing that. They are using cutouts and intermediaries. They are manipulating you into furthering their activities sometimes even unwittingly.

So if you're creating the bar as conspiracy and you're dealing especially with a foreign intelligence service, you are not going to, I would say 99% of the time you are not going to find a conspiracy. But this is what the American public decided was the standard. Collusion is not a crime. Okay, but conspiracy is a crime. So then the media, everybody was looking for, will there be a criminal conspiracy? And unfortunately, by holding him to a criminal standard as opposed

to an ethical moral fitness for duty standard that we expect from the commander in chief, you know, basically everybody signed on to the conclusions of the Mueller report. Right. And Mueller said in his report, the reason I'm doing this, knowing I can't indict anybody and knowing the super high bar, I have to meet to prove a broader criminal conspiracy. The reason I'm doing this is because we need to get the evidence down while it's fresh in everybody's mind and while everybody is remembering it and we have to preserve it before people destroy documents or text messages, which they had already done by the time he got to them. But can I even just close the loop?

What then was used by Trump and Barr and Rosenstein is to equate collusion with conspiracy as though they are the same thing. They are not the same thing. Conspiracy is a specifically chargeable crime with particular elements. Collusion is encouraging, facilitating, welcoming, participating in any kind of secret agreement to some outcome.

It's a looser term. And if you read the Mueller report, if you read the 448 pages, there is plenty of evidence of collusion, not criminal conspiracy, but now in the popular imagination, those two terms, because of reflexive control, has been equated as being one and the same. I have two questions on that topic. So one is, do you think it's too late to go back

and change like our argument? And secondly, what would be a better argument than collusion and conspiracy? Can we unreflexive, can we un-fuck ourselves? Is that possible? Yeah. So, you know, remember that impeachment clause of the Constitution says that the President can be impeached for bribery, treason, or high crimes, and misdemeanors. You know, contrast that with the language that's written for the pardon power,

he can pardon crimes against the United States. They specifically did not say, you know, he can be impeached only for crimes against the United States. That means that they imagined a broader class of actions and conduct that can be impeachable. When I was in the FBI, you know, they trained you in how to do background investigations. And there's a pneumonic that you were supposed to use when you conducted background checks.

And that pneumonic is Carla F. Bad. I know that. A.G. knows this because I tweet it like every periodically to remind people. And Carla F. Bads stands for Character Associates, Reputation, Loyalty, Ability, Buies, Finances, Alcohol, and Drugs. It's to help you remember to cover all of those things when you're talking to somebody. And if you go through that, I'll repeat that again, character, associates, reputation, loyalty, ability, bias, alcohol, finances.

I was going to wear the F is. Yeah, sorry, finance is. That was just fucking worth saying. Finances, bias, alcohol, fine answers. That was just fucking worth saying. Fine answers, biased alcohol and drugs. I mean, arguably only alcohol and drugs are like the two things that he may not completely fail on. I don't even know what you're talking about right now. I don't even know what you're talking about right now.

I don't even know what you're talking about right now. But that's the standard for trustworthiness. That is what every other person who is in a position of trust who gets access to classified information, they have to be able to pass all of those standards, whether they have committed a crime or not, before they can get a job. And hundreds of thousands of people get turned down

for jobs because they can't be trusted with a security clearance. This guy got this job, he did not go through a background check, and I think Carla F. Bad, not Title 18 of the US Code, should be the standard. Oh. I like that too. And maybe that's one of the lessons we take forward with us in this.

Hey guys, we hope you're enjoying the show live from Philly. We'll be right back with the conclusion. Thanks to Crust for supporting Molar Shirope. The Crest 3D whitening kit is the perfect way to whiten your teeth to make the most of your smile. As I'm sure you guys know, all of the food and drinks that we have over the years takes a toll on how our teeth look. And by proxy, takes a toll on how we look,

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That's $20 off your first Crest 3D whitings strip kit when you go to crestwhitesmile.com and use the promo code AG at checkout. You'll be glad you did. One more question for you, Asha. With you mentioned, you know, your counterintelligence background. According to Schiff, they haven't been briefed on counterintelligence stuff from the, you know, the Mueller investigation ever. And well, since Comey was there.

So what do you do when you can't, you're the FBI and you're in counterintelligence and you can't brief the gang of eight because newness and burr are in there. Or like why haven't, I mean, I guess I can kind of guess why they haven't got a briefing, but my big existential fear is if you've got counterintelligence information that the president is an asset of a foreign government and everyone surrounding him is, or a lot of people surrounding him are, who do you tell do you tell if Bill Barr is the AG, and half of your gang of eight or turn coats, and that's a Philadelphia term?

And, like, who do you tell? Like, I'm an atheist, so you can't tell God. But you know what I mean? Leg legally, could you breathe polocy, or could you breathe shiff or something without seeming political? So, okay. The counterintelligence side of the FBI is very different than the criminal side.

So, you know, just as a broad matter, one of the things that drives me crazy is when they'll point to somebody who might have been implicated in Russia context and they'll say, well, he was never charged. And you know, in the counterintelligence side, very few, you know, cases see the inside of a courtroom. Because the purpose is not to gather evidence of criminal activity. The purpose is to assess whether the person is a threat to national security. When it comes to counterintelligence, the FBI's job is to identify, monitor, and neutralize foreign intelligence activity.

Okay. All right. So how do I neutralize Trump? I know, that's a jump. Yes. So what does this mean? So when foreign intelligence services spies from other countries or operating here, the FBI watches them,

they figure out what they're doing. Neutralization can take a number of different forms. So one could be you just monitor them. Once you're onto them, it's in your interest to not let them know what you know. You just keep getting information, they are burned, they don't know it. So do you guys remember the 10 Russians that were posing

as Americans that were living in New York? OK, so the FBI was monitoring them for 10 years. This is like the goose that laid the golden eggs. You know, they were just getting all of their information, figuring out what they were doing. This is a great boon to our intelligence activities. Another thing you can do is you can, you know, if there's somebody that has access to classified information, you can feed them disinformation.

So Robert Hansen is a good example of this. Once they thought that Robert Hansen might be spying for first the Soviet Union and Rache, what the FBI did is internally they gave him a promotion and they kind of moved him to a place where he didn't have access to sensitive information, but they were still kind of giving him like crap that he was just feeding back. So that neutralizes it because then your adversary is not getting real information. A final thing you can do is that you can kick them out

of the country. So most spies here are acting under diplomatic cover. They're here as the cultural attaché from wherever. And so that's why the counterintelligence offices are primarily in New York and Washington, DC and San Francisco. This is called declaring them persona non grata. It's a verb in the Intel community. You PNG somebody, you just kick them out.

This is a diplomatic move. It's very embarrassing to that country. So here an example is that in December of 2016, because of the... I love this part. The Russia's election interference President Obama kicked out P-P-N-G-D-35 Russian spies. Now just so you know, I've been involved in one P-N-G and it was a shit show because basically you have the FBI, the CIA, and the State Department all fighting, okay?

The FBI wants to kick the person out. It's very rare. You only do this when they're like really up to no good, okay? And this is because the State Department hates PNGing people. It's incredibly disruptive to their diplomatic efforts. It's highly embarrassing to the country. It causes all kinds of riffs, and the CIA hates it because when we PNG somebody, the other country does a tit for tat, which means they typically will kick out one spy for everybody that we spy.

So you typically see like one or two maybe very rarely, Obama kicked out 35. Whew. So. And the FBI is saying to the CIA and the State Department, like, just trust us. Like you. So and just as a small little segue, because I think that this was lost at the time, this is why it was so terrible that Michael Flynn was having this secret conversations to Russia,

to not retaliate, because there's so much chess playing that goes into doing that, that I have no doubt that the Obama administration said, we are going to take this huge step of kicking out 35 people. They've calculated that Russia is going to retaliate by doing XYZ. What the Trump administration did is they secretly said, don't do anything, we'll fix everything,

we're gonna live sanctions or whatever they said, then that didn't happen by 2017, when whatever Putin was promised didn't come through, he kicked out 775 of our diplomatic personnel from Russia, completely obliterated our diplomatic capacity as well as our intelligence capacity there. So that's why that was so destructive. But going back to your question about the president,

when the call is coming from inside the White House, you cannot neutralize the threat, okay? All of these things that I just mentioned, you can't do. Let's say you continue to monitor them. The purpose of monitoring them is to gather intelligence. Who is the ultimate consumer of intelligence, the president of the United States? Okay, so then you're monitoring somebody that, how do you do that? If the target that you're monitoring has access to the classified information,

and it's the president, you can not cut off his access to the classified information and it's the president, you cannot cut off his access to the classified information. He isn't titled as the President of the United States to see it. And finally, I am sad to report, we cannot kick out the President of the United States and send him back where he came from. So, the FBI is in this very difficult situation. If they open to counterintelligence investigation on the President of the United States, this

should like have been news for months, okay? This is huge. What has happened with that? How did they resolve it? Does he continue to be a national security threat? And if they aren't reporting to the gang of eight, which they are required to do at least twice a year, it's because they have discovered such, I mean, my opinion, they've discovered some information that is so sensitive or they're getting information from sources that are so sensitive and they

cannot trust the people on that committee to keep that information. And you can't just give it to half the committee because then you seem political. What's that? Like, how do you, like, if you have this information, it's really important. Can you just give it to the good half? No, I believe you have to give it to the chair

and the ranking member. You know, it's worth noting though, that when the counterintelligence investigation against the president was open, they were notified. So all of this deep state stuff, they were notified as they were required by law when it's a US person and especially they would have done this anyway because it's the president of the United States.

The FBI notified this committee. So all of this, you know, this happened under Obama, they were trying to throw, you know, this May of 2017, after he won the election, the President of the United States was became the subject of account intelligence investigation. Everybody, including Devon Uniz, was notified. And so, I know even Devon was like, I don't think I should be in here right now

So that it's a it's a it's a big problem. Yeah, and matter when I think matter asked Andrew McCabe what do you do? And he's like we've never been in this situation It literally never been in this situation before and I'm no longer the acting director of the FBI. Peace, no, you didn't say that. I'm like, it left me with the same freaked out feeling. Like, we've never been here, what do we do? And I guess we still... And it's especially difficult because the President of the United States has awesome powers, particularly when it comes to national security and foreign affairs.

He has almost unfettered power. So he decides how we decide to deal with another country. OK? If he doesn't want to take action against Russia or Putin, we are that all of the intelligence agencies take direction from him. They cannot, if you think the CIA or the NSA or DIA are doing things like kind of on their own, they're not, they cannot legally. I mean, if they are, it's actually also troubling, right?

Because you don't want to have like rogue intelligence agencies. We had those in the 60s and 70s. It did not turn out so well on a number of fronts. So we're in a really bad situation in terms of our vulnerability. And I think that there is entirely possible that the president is an unwitting asset. I actually think he could not possibly be a winning asset because he would make a terrible spy. Like, he's just a black. I mean, I've run assets and he wouldn't take taskings.

He'd like, he brag about it. He'd be like, oh, potent things on grade. I was a spy. You know, right? Like, Maniford was good, right? He was a good tasker. He was a good tasker. Who was it?

Maniford. He was a good asset. No, he would be good. Page. I don't think he had enough shit worth having to be an asset But they tried like he's like he would have been like a fellow traveler like Asian of influence that they would have used But yeah, and then Trump would just be a useful idiot. I think he would be telling even have Israel in the Omas minute you won't believe what I'm doing for Russia. They have me. Huh? It's looked pretty good. And you're like,

it'd be a great movie though. I gotta say. Yeah. The ignorant asset. Definitely. And I was thinking, you know, when you're always saying like, who are we going to go to? Like, you can't go to the gang of it. Like, who are you going to call? I think Ghostbusters every time. Right? The female Ghostbusters will save democracy. FBI tell Bill Murray. That's who you need to tell. Just tell Bill Murray and he and I will have a meeting and we'll figure out what to do. Well, I don't feel any better. Thank you for that.

Now, I have time for three questions and I have about two minutes a piece. So who's the first question for the panel? Pop on up here. Sir, jump on up. And if you want to get in line behind him, so that you have your in line there, you would be good to go. I like your shirt.

Oh. Thank you. Are you? All right. Justice Stevens issued an opinion where he found that the suit against Bill Clinton, Paul Jo's suit, could move forward. Now, Bill Clinton was actually president at the time. So it would seem that that would establish

Set the law that a suit could move against the sitting president now Civil suit a civil suit in federal court Yeah, that was a federal civil suit and so the OLC opinion is based on the idea that a criminal charge against the president, that in order for him to mount a defense to be able to, you know, particular their speedy trial requirements and all of that, would take away so much of the focus from his presidential duties as to impair his ability to perform those functions. This is not, by the way, a settled legal question, right? This is an opinion by the Office of Legal Counsel within the Department of Justice.

Now, query whether the idea that it would take too much time from the president's duties applies to a president who has spent a third of his time golfing. I could take that to court on my own. But were you going to ask about why we can't indict a sitting president if this is? Well, exactly. I mean, yeah.

And that's a good distinction. But we can sue a president because, as you know, the congressional Democrats of William and Slausuit has been able to go forward, which is not a criminal federal case. It is a civil lawsuit brought against the president for violating the emoluments clause. That's been allowed to go forward.

And a lot of the precedent that they use is that, what is it, Clinton v. Jones? Yeah. That you can sue. You know, you might not be able to handle a federal criminal investigation because you're so busy with your president's shit. But you can certainly handle a civil suit.

He's only handled 5,800 in his life. I think he can take another one. The other issue with the distinction between the civil and criminal is that you then create another kind of constitutional issue if you get to the sentencing phase, like a punishment phase, right? Like, let's say you were to go through with a criminal indictment and go through a trial and he's convicted. The Constitution only allows for removal of the president

through the process of impeachment. There is no other constitutional way. So then what do you do? You cannot, you know, marshals cannot come in and arrest him and put him in jail until he is impeached and removed. So you end up in these very difficult situations. There's also the philosophical idea,

whether the head of the executive branch, whether his own justice department can then prosecute him, because it's like effectively they are an extension of him. They would then be prosecuting themselves. And so I think they just avoid all of that. Now, there is a lot of scholarly debate and there are many scholars who believe that you could bifurcate this, meaning that you should be able

to indict the president, even if you are to try him after he leaves office or alternatively and to indict him and allow the statute of limitations if there is one to toll, which means that the president frees it. You freeze it because otherwise what you effectively have is a president who, you know, if, let's say Trump was elected again, then he gets to just ride out, you know, the statute of limitations which would not be fair. Unless he keeps climbing. Unless he keeps climbing. But yeah, and so I think you may bring up a great point because if he isn't

dited by Tiss James in the, in the, in the, in the, not some district, in, uh, New York, state attorney's, attorney general office, what do you do if he's found guilty? You just handed over to Congress because they're the only ones who can do anything about it anyway. It's just like Mueller when he tossed him to pop it up. No, when he tossed him to Congress, like can't do anything, here's all the shit and you go. And I think that's where we end up, although, you know, I mean Mueller obviously chose not to indict, or he couldn't indict because of the OLC memory. Can I jump in for one second?

You have literally nine seconds. Nope, I'll defer. Talk, find me in the bar, and I'll answer. I have like 87 things to say, but I don't want to take away from Asha. Yeah, let me hear your thoughts, too. We actually need to get off stage like now, but I want to get these other two questions in.

Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you, sir. APPLAUSE Oh, nice shirt. So I actually have a couple questions but I'll ask one and I've been wanting him in peach since January 21st, 2017 and I'm because I knew what we were in for the minute I saw that he won the art when he showed up at the R RNC with his Russian friends. Now, I've been trying to be patient with the subpoena fights

and cord and everything. What teeth would an impeachment inquiry have as opposed to what we're waiting for now? Because the way barb just flipped everything, it's really alarming. And what will it do for us if we ask for this impeachment and for you now? And it's really sort of an unknown.

I think it's kind of just because it hasn't happened so often. It's more theoretical than not. But with an impeachment inquiry in place, you have an official judicial process, or a judicial thing happening. I think what I've heard is it effectively turns the House of Representatives into a grand jury, which means when you go to court and file these suits, you, I think it's just expedited and considered far more serious than

it is if you're just subpoenaing Kellyanne and she doesn't show up. Right, I mean, the file of thing and then it goes here. So I think the teeth of an impeachment inquiry. Yeah, what it does is it does strengthen the grounds for the house to obtain the information that it needs. Right now, you have a bunch of different committees that are trying to get the tax returns and get such and such witness. And what they are relying on is an implicit power in the Constitution of Congressional Oversight and Investigation.

That is not stated anywhere, but it's implied, it's understood that they had this power because they need that information to pass their legislature. If they were to invoke their impeachment authority, which is explicitly stated, and they have sole authority, then they grounds on which to compel these people to provide the documents, the witnesses that they need. And they would all be centralized out of the judiciary committee. Yeah, and that's the other thing too, as they were talking about. They're like, well, we'd have to move everything to the just your committee and then this and that. And everyone's like, but I want to keep, you know, stuff like Intel shift. He's like, I want to keep my shit. It's good shit, you know, and you're like, come on, just fucking do it. It's, it's all like sort of, then you probably get like when the FBI CIA, if it was arguing state department

or arguing about expelling these guys, you would probably have that going on among the different committees. Like, I want my thing. I want my thing. I want my thing. So, I said, yeah, that's where we are. And one more huge thing on that, which is impeachment means the charges have been brought and a trial will take place, right? That trial takes place in the Senate. The House of Representatives is designated

to appoint managers who are prosecutors who bring the case. And this will be carried alive even on Fox News, right? And that's the real point. Like, you look right now, and we have a fucking propaganda arm that has said, well, you know, the Mueller report is a total exoneration because we don't read. Having witness, having witness after witness testify only as to what is in the Mueller report.

Right? And God knows there's shit that's not in the Mueller report. But having witness after witness testify in front of middle America like, yes, the president told me to call Sergei Kisliak. No, I didn't call him because that was stupid fucking shit. By the way, that's a transcript from the Mueller report, right? Like, it says, what fucking crate, like I don't know, it says stupid fucking shit only, you know what?

And like, having that in front of the American people is such a huge difference. And then also, like your goddamn aunt Kathy. And the variable that I feel like Nancy Pelosi is not taking into account is that Trump would spontaneously combust. Oh my God. Okay.

He, like, I'm telling you, I am 99% sure that he would have a Colonel Jessup moment. At some point, you start the impeachment inquiry and he'd be like, damn right, I ordered the code red. You know, and he will, he'll do it. He'll do it on the front lawn, like randomly, in a press conference, and people will be like, what just happened?

Who is the senator that thought Colonel Jessup was real and retweeted it? Steve King. Steve King. Thank you so much. Thank you. And final question. And then we'll wrap up.

I swear to God, I'm sorry we're going over time. I just want to make sure I get this last question in. Hi, welcome to Philadelphia. Thank you guys. Thank you. So why didn't anybody go after Turtle Dick Mitch and his wife for all of their financial fraud related to her position in government? I personally think, and this isn't to be little, all that crazy financial fraud, but there's literally, and I think that this is on purpose, a fire hose of shit that is being sprayed at us on a daily basis, and to prioritize that

anywhere it would probably have to be number 864, even though it's so, so vital and so important. There are things so far down on the list that are in any other administration would be number one. And honestly, I think that that's what the problem is in this particular case. Personally, I don't honestly know why the public acts the way it acts and other than unless it's just it just like a does a disinformation over load. I mean it's just another it's another part of I think the reality that we're living in and away that it's kind of a form of information warfare too you know that is a part of our landscape now is just that we cannot keep track of everything.

We cannot keep track of all the wrongdoing and frankly, you know, you guys showed up here, a good chunk of Americans just checked out. Yeah. They're just like, I can't deal with it. Everybody's corrupt. I give up. And that is really the worst outcome. And every day I see somebody saying,

don't talk about that, you're distracting from that. Don't talk about that, you're distracting from that. Like the president tweeted that four women of color should go back to where they came from. And that's a distraction from something worse that he rapes children probably. So it's like, so when people come at me, like that's a distraction, you should know better, be better. I'm like how is it a fucking distraction that he said these things

publicly? That should be news. And so somebody might look to you and say, that whole child, turtle dick, Mitch thing is a distraction. And you're like, that in any other administration would be a massive, massive scandal. Who would go after it? But it's not a tan suit, so it couldn't possibly. But I really honestly think that that's it, is that people think everything's a distraction and there's just so much coming at us at once. Right, but even if we wanted to address it,

since we're talking about it now, we might as well, who would be in charge of going after the, or I guess it's like a financial scam, you said? Like, what? be in charge of going after the, or I guess it's like a financial scam you said, like, what, yeah. So I think that that's a part, like there are so many different layers, like first you have the OIG, of, you know, like you have an internal organization,

the internal oversight that goes through it, then if there's something that is criminal, then that might get referred, then there's a criminal investigation, if it gets to that stage, then once they get the evidence, is it something that they would even charge? I mean, this stuff takes time. Or Congress can do an investigation. And Congress can do an investigation.

Ben Gazi, you know, I mean, it's sad. And it's really sad that four people passed away in Ben Gazi. But that was their whole thing for four fucking six years, a long-ass time. And now we have something like this that probably, they just, they're like, I don't even know. And then the judiciary wants to do the thing where they take everything.

And it's like, it's just so much. It is information warfare via overload. I have to agree with you 100% on that. And I'm sorry, I don't know how to fix it. You're at the podium, you're supposed to have all the answers. We we we love you though. Hey, I'm just here to tell you about it. All right guys one last thing before we get out of here and we are so late. Oh thank you for your question I love you.

Thank you for your question. We do you. Thank you for your question. We do this every live show. It's one of my favorite things to do. Let me get my microphone. What? All right, so we're going to divide this room into three parts. We're going to go, you guys, like right here, you guys. You guys are the middle, and you guys are over here.

And what I need is fruit. It's like the same problem different times. You've all played left-right center, come on. We're all left, but you're still the middle and the right. So I need you guys, your note is fucked. Can I hear it? Fuck. That's you two, fuck. Your note is fucked. Yours is fucked.

Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. All right, now we're going to do this. And usually we talk about Manifort.

But he's fucked this week. Is he fucked? I was gonna say, who's this week? Here's who I think. I think we should do this. Epstein is fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. Fuuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuu Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuu Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut Fuuut F Hello, everyone. director is Jordan Coburn. Fact checking in research by AG and research assistance by Jolissa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Our merchandising managers are Sarah Least, Diner and Sarah Hershberger, Valencia.

Our web design and branding are by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios, and our website is mullershierote.com. Season 4 of How We Win Is Here. For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave. But the Maga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government

now control the House. Thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So, the official podcast of the persistence is back with season four. There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself. We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy

and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country. And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it, with messaging and communications expert co-founder of Way to Win and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action, and hope.

I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. And this is How We Win. you