Jack - Junior Can't Recall (feat. Glenn Kirschner)

Episode Date: May 11, 2020

This week on MSW, we're discussing the implications of DOJ's request for dismissal on Flynn case, and we've got an interview with Glenn Kirschner. Get our bonus content at patreon.com/muellershewrote!

I'm Greg Oliar. Four years ago, I stopped writing novels to report on the crimes of Donald Trump and his associates. In 2018, I wrote a best-selling book about it, Dirty Rubles. In 2019, I launched Proveil, a biweekly column about Trump and Putin, spies and mobsters, and so many traders! Trump may be gone, but the damage he wrought will take years to fully understand. Join me, and a revolving crew of contributors and guests as we try to make sense of it all. This is Preveil. Thanks to Noom for supporting Mullershi Road.

Noom is not a diet, it's a healthy and easy to stick to way of life. Whether you're trying to lose weight or get fit for good, Noom is here to help you get there. Commit only 10 minutes a day for yourself. Get started with a free trial when you sign up today at Noom.com slash AG. And thanks to Best Fiends for supporting Muller She-Route. Best Fiends is a unique and exciting puzzle experience,

unlike other puzzle games out there. Best Fiends updates the game monthly with new levels and events so it never gets old, download free on the Apple App Store or on Google Play. This is Jack Bryan, the co-writer and director of Active Measures, and you are listening to Mother She Wrote, Lucky You. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said.

That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have and I have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for I have nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia if you're listening I hope you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a Communist!

No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red hairing. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to Muller She Wrote. I'm your anonymous host A.G. and I'll be joined remotely by Jordan Coburn today, and I'm going to replay for you today the interview with Glenn Kirschner about the astounding move the Department of Justice made this week by filing a motion to dismiss the charges against General Michael Flynn who pleaded guilty a lot and admitted 10 ways that he crime. I think that interview, which comes from our sister podcast The Daily Beans, is important enough to listen to again here on this podcast because it discusses the silver linings and

reminds us all that the headlines, which told us Department of Justice drops charges against Flynn, are misleading. Nothing can happen here without Sullivan's go ahead. So I want as many people as possible to hear that interview. We have a big show. A lot is going on in Mueller-related news as 2020 heats up. Just this morning, right as I took a break between recording segments for this show and the other show, Trump tweeted about 20 times with regards to the Russian investigation. It's all over his mind right now. And as 2020 heats up and Bill Barr, along with Trump trying to discredit Russian interference, it's just gonna get worse. But before we get to the headlines,

it's time for some corrections. It's time to start. It's time for me to say I'm sorry. Oh, I made a mistake. All right, from Bernardo and also from Julia. I listened to both podcasts religiously, especially during these horrible times It's sanity saving to have such well-informed funny and passionate voices nearby On the May 8th episode of Daily Beans during the interview, A.G. briefly mentioned the Pentagon paper's case And I said I believe you went to prison About the guy who leaked the papers. He actually did not go to prison. All the charges against him, Daniel Ellsberg,

were dismissed by the judge in 1973. The case was dismissed because the government misconduct, they tried to bribe the judge with an FBI director position. Ellsberg would actually have been, be a wonderful guest on Mollershi Road or Daily Beans, I think, also happy birthday to Jordan. I could listen to you mispronounce words anytime. Thank you very much for that Bernardo and Julia.

From Glenn, the sharing of jobs is a nice change to the show. So it's the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court will not really look and decide is this the kind of thing we should be deciding. Courts are of limited jurisdiction. They can only hear those cases. They are authorized by law to hear. So the Court's inquiry would always be, do we have the power and right to hear this case?

If so, we decide on the issue, like the House of Penas. There's a difference between, we do not clearly have the right to decide the case and we shouldn't or we can't. That's why they will do a five-four. Anyways, thank you. You're the court justers. It's important work to share up the masses. They need humor. All right. Well, thank you, Glenn. Yes, obviously, there's two different ways to not hear a case. You can either say it's not our jurisdiction. It's not just dischable here in the court, or we aren't going to hear it because the merits suck,

but I'm paraphrasing. And in which case, if they decide not to hear it on just dischability, then it's gone. The case is gone. But if they decide not to hear it on the merits, then it kicks it back down to the next lower court's decision. From Mela, dear AG, Jordan and Amanda, it's a treat to have such strong, funny women inform me about what's going on over there in the States, although it's tragic to hear

what Republicans have done and are still doing to your country. I don't have a correction as such, but Jordan pondered last week whether plants are inanimate. Being a passionate gardener, I was shouting at the phone, no, no, they are alive. This is an incredible documentary on how trees communicate, nurture, and feed each other. Even just the trailer will rock your world. It's at intelligent-trees.com. Thank you for your diligence and persistence, Mele and Ireland. Thank you, Mele. I know I read a book in college something about I have to it's on my bookshelf right now. I can't remember what it's called but people People looked at how plants responded to negative and positive

speaking voices and yelling and terrible dissonant sounds and pleasant and wonderful sounds and so yeah, agreed From Danny. It's great to be privileged and be able to work from home But saying things like people are stupid to fight to get back to their shitty jobs as tone deaf. People are scared shitless because they literally can't feed their family, pay rent, car payments, etc. and are scared of COVID. I grew with you initially on this topic, but then I listened to the story on the daily about African American meat plant immigrant, and it rocked my mindset. I was stunned. Here's a link. Anyways, thank you. The show keeps me feeling sane. Thanks, Danny. I hope that nobody think my point was that the protesters that are out trying to reopen America. I think are protesting for the wrong reasons. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. And I will definitely check out that link that you sent. And we'll send that link out in the newsletter. I appreciate that. The last thing I want to do is be toned up about that.

People need work. And there's dignity and work. And the perspective I was trying to put out there isn't that your job is a shitty, why do you want them back? It's more of, why do you want them back? It's more of, you know, why are these people, why are the, you know, the branch kividians, the flu, Klux Klan, and whatever you wanna call them, the big, the white guys with guns,

storming Michigan state capital. Why are they so intent on going back to work where they don't have healthcare and they don't have sick pay. It's just one of those cognitive dissonant things. And I hope that I wasn't trying to, you know, your point is taken. Let's just say that. And, um, you know, I also lost my job in this process. So I would give anything to get it back. Um, but it doesn't mean that it was good to begin with. How about that?

In any case, thank you. From Sarah, first thanks for the good news block. It's helpful to end on a positive note. I first noted the word usage in imminently prosecutable that came up again recently. I normally don't write people about word usage, but since MSW and daily beans deal with legal issues, the distinction can become important. So, between imminently and imminently, confusion between these is common, but basically imminently means soon and imminently means very. So, imminently prosecutable soon, whereas imminently prosecutable, super duper prosecutable.

Just wanted to clear that up. Well, thank you. Maybe I meant prosecutable soon. No, I'm kidding. I'll take that correction, put it in my pocket, thank you. Maybe I meant prosecutable soon. No, I'm kidding. I'll take that correction, put it in my pocket, appreciate it. From B, I love your podcast. I've been a patron for a couple of years now.

I depend on your podcast to help me to spell bullshit when my Trump-loving relatives bring up politics. The main MSW account tweeted tonight about churches getting PPP loans despite not paying taxes. I work with my state's overwhelmed department of labor, and while I generally agree the government is overly deferential to religious non-tax payers, a big motivation of the CARES Act was to be sure that workers of businesses who don't usually qualify for things like unemployment could get some type of

funds. Church workers rarely qualify due to religious exemptions, but can be paid with PPP. I hope it all as well and keep making good trouble for the assholes out there. Thanks, Bee. Thanks for that clarification. From Rory, you guys are the best podcasts going. I get a little smile every time the podcast is downloading on my phone. It reminds me there are sane people out there. So, it's not really a correction, it's just sort of a perspective thing.

I've noticed you guys do the term tax payers dollars a lot, and I'm sure it's without reference to the political connotations of that term, but I feel it's actually a very right-wing term. It's designed to alienate those who do not pay taxes for whatever reason from participation in discussion of spending. But every single person has an interest on how money is spent, not just those who are able to contribute. We people outside the USA could easily forget, there is a good reason to admire it as a

country. Or a fantastic reminder, thank you. Yes, that is a very good distinction. When I refer to taxpayer dollars, I'm talking about immigrants who pay taxes and don't get benefits from that. I'm talking about small businesses who pay full taxes, I'm talking about middle class people

who pay a higher percentage of taxes than the rich people who can afford to find loopholes, churches who are tax exempt religious organizations like Scientology for example, and of course, you know, they and corporations who weasel out of taxes but are considered people even though immigrants who pay taxes get known of those benefits. So I'll be clear next time. Thank you.

And from Melissa and also Martin, hey, a G company, this is from Missy from Canada, been a patron for about a year now. I've felt at home with your community of well-informed and caring people. I'm a bit of an American news junkie that I sometimes forget. I'm actually Canadian, but I indeed am. Anywho, just wanted to correct the comment

about guns per capita. When a Canadian assault rifle, ban was mentioned, A.G. thought there were more guns per capita in Canada than the U.S., it's not true at all. Here are the numbers. The U.S. has approximately 89 guns per 100 people ranking number one in all countries. Canada has about 31 guns per 100 people ranking 13th globally. And producers note from Amanda Reader updated 2020 numbers so that Canada currently ranks 7th or 8th globally for gun ownership depending on the source the United

States does consistently rank at the highest numbers of guns per capita in my research. All right, well thank you very much for those corrections. I really appreciate it. And it's important to us that we get everything right. So if you have any, please head to mullershearout.com, click contact and select corrections, build us a compliment sandwich, we'll get it right eventually. And with that, let's get to the news with just the facts. All right, let's listen to that Glenn Kirschner interview I promised. And after

that, we'll have Jordan on with hot notes and we'll have updates on Deutsche Bank, Mazar's, the Muller Grandjury Materials case, along with some fresh Manafort news and the Hipsy transcripts. So here we go. Let's listen to this. All right, everybody, uh, joining me today, because I have to discuss this today. I cannot wait until Sunday's muller sheet wrote show. This is, to me, the big news. I keep getting tweets of people saying, oh, you're being distracted from what's really going on. This isn't a distraction.

This is the fucking story. And joining me today to talk about it is former federal prosecutor 25 plus years, I think, at DCU, as Attorney's Office, Glenn Kirschner. Glenn, thanks for speaking with me today. Hey, thanks for having me. If I had hair, it would be on fire. We can I have a wig you can borrow if you just feel like going through the motions. So as everyone I'm sure who listens to my podcasts, our podcasts, has heard by now. As a matter of fact, Glenn, I just made a one-line post in our Facebook group, oh my fucking God, I think is what I said.

And I didn't have to say anything else and everyone knew what I was talking about today. And that is the Department of Justice, Tim Shea, I should say, on behalf of the Department of Justice, his file to motion to dismiss the charge against Michael Flynn, saying, sure, he lied, but he didn't lie materially with respect to a matter under investigation, quote, government has concluded that the interview of Mr. Flynn was untethered to and unjustified by the FBI's counterintelligence investigation into Mr. Flynn, a no longer justifiably predicated investigation that the FBI had in the Bureau's own words,

prepared to close because it had yielded an absence of any derogatory information. Unquote. So basically what they're saying is lying to the FBI isn't enough of a crime. You have to be lying about something material to an investigation that's happening into you that's relevant. And the DOJ here is saying that the FBI was found really, they were about to close the counterintelligence investigation. There was absence of drugatory information. They even quote Jim Comey in this filing saying, Jim Comey said, this is a close one, this is a close one, uh, to get their point across. What say you

about this dismissal? Yeah, please don't listen to those party words that they tried to put into that phony legal document, justifying Donald Trump bill bars and Tim Shays corruption, cronism, and favoritism. Don't buy any of it because what Mike Flynn did after talking with the Russians about sanctions, which he had no business doing, he then lied to the vice president of the United States about it as Donald Trump acknowledged in his tweak, and I believe the vice president also acknowledged when it happened, and then he lied to the FBI about it. What that does is that compromises not only Mike Flynn, but our entire national security because he was the national security advisor, lying to the vice president about enormously consequential national security matters.

Do not buy into, you know, that legal, that full legal document that was signed trying to justify why they were moving to dismiss Mike Flynn's knowing voluntary and intelligent guilty plea is a bunch of podwash. It's corruption, plain and simple, and I even, I'm allowed to say the Department of Justice moved to dismiss the case. Donald Trump moved to dismiss this case for corrupt reasons period. And what do you take, but normally when I see these documents, there's four or five signatories on there. I think Van Grack withdrew in a very

terse one statement, one line statement to the court. No one else has signed this document besides Timothy Shea, and I was wondering what that, what does that say to you? So yeah, Timothy Shea is a billbar, acolyte, or more accurately now, lackey, and billbar we know is a Donald Trump acolyte and lackey. So here's what that means when no prosecutors assigned to the case would actually put their names on this motion to dismiss. This is the third time this has happened.

It happened in the census case when the government was flip-flopping positions like crazy trying to appease Donald Trump. The prosecutors all withdrew from the case because they were not going to do something they perceived was improper or unethical. Yeah, and they were doing damage to themselves in the eyes of the court, too, by not being candid, right? So I remember that from that weekend conference call with the judge, where the judge is like WTF everybody, and they're like, we don't even know, bro, and we're sorry.

We're really sorry about this. We thought we had it, and they felt very abandoned by their own department. It felt like. And, you know, what can I speak up for the 110 or 115,000 Department of Justice employees, because I was one of them for almost a quarter of a century? We don't do things that are unethical,

or they're going to make us look like idiots in front of the court, because, you know, we're not going to walk in there and just pirate some line by the president if we know we're not going to walk in there and just parrots some line by the president if we know it's unlawful or if we know it's unethical or if we know it's not supported by any sort of law or president we're not going to look like fools. The only thing we have left to do in those circumstances is remove ourselves from the case withdraw from the case and say we will have no part of this dirty deal, this drug deal, which has been said before.

So the census prosecutors, the team had to walk off that case. The Rochester Stone prosecutors had to all walk off the case and one resigned from government altogether when Bill Barr swooped in to try to tell the prosecution, hey, you got to go easy on Roger Stone, Donald Trump's friend. The three prosecutors said, we're not doing that. It's not ethical. We're out.

Now, here we have it happening a third time. When the only name on today's motion to dismiss the fling case is the US Attorney Kim Shea, not a single line prosecutor. And I know some of them who were assigned to the fling case, apparently were willing to sign it. This is corruption. There's no legal basis for any of this. It's all cronyism and corruption. Now, Van Grack went on to be appointed head of the new pharaoh violations unit at the department. And we all know, I think, one of the crimes that was sort of forgiven in exchange for

his cooperation, for Flynn's cooperation, was that he failed to register as an agent for Turkey. And he was going to be a cooperating witness in his business partner's case, who was also who was charged with fair violations of Turkey, that B.J. and Rafiki and Abiyan Kian. And Van Grech is the fair guy now. Question for you on the statute of limitations. Is it five years for a fair violation?

And I don't know exactly for a fair violation. What I will say is the overwhelming majority of federal crimes carry a five year statute of limitations. So, but you know what? Let's see what Van Grech shelf life is after he walked off the case today. You mean by shelf life before he speaks out or quit? I mean, I mean, let's see if somebody retaliates against him. If Trump and bar retaliate against him for doing the right thing, standing up and apparently walking off this case rather than agreeing that Flynn's knowing voluntary and intelligent guilty plea ought to be should can't. When do you just go on the

record and just spill it all? Honestly. That's a great question because we all know if you're a whistleblower then you're you've committed trees and you know we do to people like that according to Donald Trump. So you know what I wish more people would stand up and speak out. I hope they do moving forward, but I'm not optimistic because we haven't seen much of it, but I also know it's a hard decision because people are literally putting themselves

in their families in harm's way if they cross Trump. Yeah, that is very true. I think back to the guy who, from the Rand Corporation, who leaked the Pentagon papers, I believe he went to prison. But... Yeah, it's not an easy decision. No, it can't be, and there's no guarantee of what happens in November, especially if you're in the department and you know what rushes up to, and you know how much the cheating is happening. You can't, you know, might not have every confidence in the election in November, but something else that came

up in this document, they are saying that the FBI never told Flynn that lying to them was a crime, and that he also never really solidly lied. He mostly said, I do not recall, etc. Even though on the phone with Andy McCabe beforehand, he said, you guys record all these conversations anyway, you know. And there are tapes of these conversations, mind you, they were going to be released by Sullivan, but then there was a quick meeting DOJ behind the scenes with the Mueller team and they're like, no, no, no. And so that sort of just got dropped immediately. So here we are.

I don't, I, this, I think that just goes back to the, don't believe all the bullshit you read in this document type of a situation. No, it's, it's not a legal document. It's a propaganda piece. Pure and simple. It's, you know, it's no different than us. It's a propaganda piece. Pure and simple. It's no different than us being told that chocolate rations are up after the government has cut our chocolate rations, a la George Orwell's 1984. Truth is not truth to these people.

This is, for some reason, this seems bigger to me than the stone or the census or this seems more brazen to me. Is it? Is it? It is because you know all of it whether it's Manafort or Stone or Flynn it involves contacts with you know whether it's WikiLeaks or Russia or Ukraine, you know, the kind of contacts that potentially compromise our country. Now, Flynn, I think, is the most dangerous and damaging because, you know, the national security advisor to the president for gosh sakes lying about contacting the Russians and talking about sanctions. And I mean, what in the world, unless we had an army or military general who had sort of covertly defected to Russia and was now going to misdirect our troops, I mean, that is an

analogy that I think in a very real way sort of characterizes the danger that Mike Flynn posed. And, you know, the fact that he's not going to be held accountable for it now, although let's put a pin in that, because I think we're going to talk about Judge Sullivan. Judge Sullivan's options in a minute. But not only, you know, assuming the case does get dismissed, I predict you're going to see Donald Trump invite Flynn back into the administration in some capacity. Oh my god, holy shit.

Wow, that I would feel so much safer knowing a compromised, not just compromised by Russians knowing that he lied, but Turkey knows and who the hell else. I'm sure the five eyes are in on it, but now, I'm the eternal optimist, right? Today, I'm just like, oh my fucking god, like I today is a hard day for me. However, I am the eternal optimist and I know that it's Judge Sullivan and this is a motion to dismiss. This isn't a, we get to dismiss by, you can't do that without leave of court. Can you tell us what that is? Sure. And, you know, there is an enormous black cloud hanging over our country at the moment as a result of this, but there is this

faint silver lining that I can see. And that is when the government files a motion to dismiss a case. The government cannot unilaterally just say, you know, and therefore the case is dismissed. It is a motion that goes to the judge and the judge has to decide whether to grant the motion to dismiss or deny the motion to dismiss. Because right now the posture of the case is it's pending sentencing, a Mike Flynn pledged guilty under oath and affirmed it a number of times is guilt of the crime in Judge Sullivan's courtroom. And it's Judge Sullivan's case, right? It is in his hands, in his jurisdiction right now. So, and what I will say is having litigated in front

of Judge Sullivan when I was a federal prosecutor in DC, he is, I'm gonna say, one of the best people in the country to be handling this case right now, because the man, first of all, he's a lion and something of a legend in DC criminal justice circles. He, and if there's one thing that he cannot tolerate, it's government, governmental misconduct. And I know firsthand because he called my office to the carpet a number of times in the years I was an A USA and DC when he got even a whiff that the government might be playing

some kind of games. Well, this isn't the government playing games. This is just rampant government corruption in broad daylight. He is going to want answers at a minimum. So here's what he can do. He can order an evidentiary hearing on the government's motion to dismiss. He can demand that prosecutors, he can can demand that Bill Barr take the stand and be placed under oath and testify about the decision to do this and whether it's justifiable,

whether it's righteous, whether it's the right thing for the criminal justice system to do this. And he can deny the motion. And if he denies the motion, he will then say, let's go to sentencing. Now, inevitably, there will be an interlocutory appeal and appeal before the case is over to resolve whether he correctly denied the motion to dismiss. But if anybody is going to boldly move to protect the integrity of the criminal justice system and our country in a very real sense, it's Judge Sullivan. So I'm hopeful that he will deny the motion order and evidentiary hearing and air some of this stuff out in his sort of determination to do the right thing and to do justice. Yeah, and a couple things.. I mean, the Department of Justice knows Sullivan

has to dismiss this case because they've said in their filing, hey, we just want to remind you that the court has never just not dismissed a case if the prosecutors have asked for it. We just want to remind you of that. And he also doesn't take kindly. Sullivan doesn't take kindly to leniency because someone was a general or in the military. If we remember from his ruling in the Patreus case, I think it was, wasn't it? Yeah.

And it's not even leniency for being a general. Sullivan will appropriately hold somebody to a higher standard if they are a general, particularly on matters of criminal violation of national security matters. You know, they, and here's the thing, I love when people say you can't do this because it's never been done before. There's something called precedent, and you know how we make precedent doing something for the first time. If we never did something for the first time,

there would be no precedent on any legal matter. And I'm telling you, Sullivan is the guy to do it. I'm not saying he's going to do it. Let's assume he goes the other way. Let's assume that at the end of the day, he decides to grant the motion to dismiss the cases over. Here's the other little bit of silver lining that's lurking behind this enormous black cloud. He will dismiss the case without prejudice. All that means is the case is dismissed for the time being and come January when we have a law of a Biden president and a law enforcing attorney general. Boy, one of the first cases that will need to be brought is the criminal case against Michael Flynn and Flynn lied I think it was in January of 2017 to the FBI

so that money at time five years that's your limitations we got to what 2022 yeah yeah we have a year we have a year all right, it sounds like if there's anyone, any judge in this country that's our last best hope for something, at least a dismissal without prejudice. Is that correct without prejudice? Without prejudice, yeah. The only reason to dismiss something with prejudice is when the government has been involved in misconduct that is detrimental to the defendant's rights. This government, this attorney general, is involved in misconduct

that is benefiting the defendant's rights. And that is something in my 30 years prosecutor I don't think I've ever seen before. All right, well, thank you for, thanks for discussing us with me today. And thanks for that little bit of silver linings at the end. I look forward to, I mean, what's the timeline on this, do you think? I mean, this motion was just filed. I'm assuming no one's going to file a counter-motion since everybody dropped off the case that

was a prosecutor's with the DOJ. So what's next is just Sullivan pop a minute order in and say? Yeah, Flynn's lawyers will probably file a reply to the government's motion to dismiss either joining in the motion or, you know, this sounds a little bit idiotic, but not opposing the motion, but they're going to want to keep their heads down because they're already, you know, like way ahead in the game. And then I predict Judge Sullivan will set some sort of hearing. Probably I'm completely guessing now because COVID is making things a little bit challenging on the calendaring front, but, you know, probably within the next few weeks. Okay. All right. Because I know Walton's hearing is still June 18th

for the Unredacted Mueller Report. I'm assuming Sullivan has not only seen the entire Unredacted Mueller Report, but a lot of other evidence that's not in the Mueller Report that we aren't privy to. I think he has, because I was in the courtroom on the first go round when he tried to sentence Flynn.

And it was clear that Judge Sullivan was privy to information that we didn't have, because he just went off on Flynn. He said, you know, sir, you arguably sold out your country. He pointed over his right hand shoulder to the flag that stands in this courtroom. And he said, you have dishonored everything that this flag stands for.

And, you know, frankly, sir, I'd like to know why you aren't charged with treason. So listen, Sullivan knows a lot more than we know. Yeah, yeah absolutely. All right well thanks again for taking the time to talk with me. Talk to me off the ledge there. I appreciate it. Everybody, former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner, where can they find you? So on Twitter, Glenn Kirschner 2 and then I have a YouTube channel where I'm trying to,

you know, post a crime a day, it's hard to keep up with the Trump administration, but it's just under my name Glenn Kirschner, and I'll be posting something tonight about the Flynn debacle. All right, thank you very much. All right, everybody, stick around. We've got more show coming up right after this. Hey, everybody, it's AG. This episode of Mola She Wrote is brought to you by NUME, finding the best way to achieve your health goal is hard, especially if you want to make lifestyle changes that last. Thankfully, NUME gives you the expert coaching and community support you need to make sustainable progress on your goals.

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very helpful. So declassify the secrets to a sustainable lifestyle change at NUME.com-AG. You can even get started with a free trial when you sign up at noom.com slash a g that's n o o m dot com slash a g to sign up for a free trial. Hot notes. All right, welcome back time for hot notes. The big news this week as I went over with Glenn in the first segment is the Flynn news and I want to do a dress of course the wider implications of this. As you know we've known for three years now that the two main goals for Donald Trump are to lift sanctions on Russia for the invasion of Crimea and to lift sanctions on Russia for the hack of his 2016 election and also of course to be elected

and be reelected and make money. And now that he's got bar running around assigning US attorneys to discredit the Mueller probe he could actually pull it off simply by interfering in the stone case and trying to dismiss the Flynn case. He may be able to cast enough doubt on the Mueller investigation to get Republicans to live sanctions, especially since Mitch's and Russia's pocket already. It's not going to take much to push him over, you know, over the fence on lifting sanctions. He's already done it in some cases and so Steve, Mnuchin at the Treasury, along with his new chief of staff, Mark Meadows as well.

Just like the mere announcement that Ukraine was investigating Biden, he only asked for an announcement. He didn't have to actually investigate, just announced that you are. Same is true here. He just needs to cast doubt. And he's using Flynn and Stone as pawns to do that, via Bill Barr. So he can stay and arms length away politically

by having Barr do it. And this Durham investigation into the investigators may just be the last play in his final move to live sanctions so he can get the full faith and support of Putin to cheat in our elections on his behalf. It's likely, quote, get the sanctions lifted by the election and will help. Don't and will fuck you. I'm sure that if Putin is aware of the approval whole that Trump finds himself in, that could

be the way, but likely not. He knows Trump can't win without cheating and he may be telling Trump he can pull it off. But the likely scenario, and I'll put beans on this, is that Durham will come out with the investigation results, and that coupled with the stone and flint interventions will be enough to muddy the waters to live sanctions. Even though the Senate Intel Committee says it's not true. The intelligence committee assessment says, you know, it's not true. The IG Horowitz says that there was enough information to open an investigation. Everything is fine.

Everything was warranted. Everything that they did to followed protocol. Despite that, there'll be some bad things that happened probably, much like the FISA warrant. There were 17 errors made in the Carter Page FISA warrant. So that, whatever Durham comes out with, plus the Flynn and Stone interventions. And Russia is either going to help Trump because they don't want Biden, who will likely come in and reverse all the sanctions if they're lifted, or they'll hang him out to dry any house.

But I don't see why Russia would abandon the election, given what the demigority and the Senate and the dem in the White House would do to him, though we'll see. But there's one small problem with the Flynn case. The motion, Tim Files, Tim Shea filed, all by his lo and sum, because none of the career prosecutors or anybody else in the DOJ for that matter would put their name on it,

had a clerical error or a technical error in that Tim Shea signed it under former US attorney for DC, Jesse Luz, bar number, which makes the entire thing invalid kind of. Now yes, they can simply refile this, although I spoke to Andrew Torres about this, he doesn't really, he doesn't have a DC bar number so he needs some sort of a proxy, right, like a sponsor. And with the stone intervention, he got some guy to sign off on it as well from the Department of Justice Criminal Division under

Bench Kowski, who's a douchebag, as we know. But on this one, no one else signed off on it. So they use Jesse Lee's number. And it's hard to do that accidentally. Big red flags come up and say, your name doesn't match your number. You can't file this, but they did anyway. And even if they do refile properly, if he gets some sort of proxy or sponsor,

I don't think that's going to change Judge Sullivan's position. It does raise questions about what the hell's going on inside the Department of Justice, though. First of all, every single reason Tim Shea gives to dismiss the case, or the lawyers who wrote the garbage motion, gives to dismiss the case against Flynn, have already been argued in front of Sullivan by Flynn's previous legal team when they put in motions for dismiss. And those motions were denied on these things that they're saying in here, materiality of the lie, etc. There's nothing new in this document to consider, which leads me to believe Sullivan will not

grant the motion to dismiss, however, I'm sure Sullivan knows if he denies the motion and sentences Flynn, Trump will pardon him. But Sullivan, I don't think, is the kind of guy to make decisions based on speculation about what might happen if he does a certain ruling. I think he just goes by the rule of law. And if it leads to a pardon and fine, let Trump do his own political dirty work. But if he does for some reason dismiss the charges, I asked Andrew Torres today if Trump can pardon a dismissed charge. And it turns out he can, which is a huge bummer. He can pardon away these crimes whether the Department of Justice goes after him or not,

sentences him or not, dismisses the charges or not. But so let's say Sullivan dismisses the case with prejudice or without prejudice meaning it can be picked up again later. And then Trump pardons Flynn, it cannot be picked up again later. Trump's pardon powers are pretty much unchecked, and I think he loves that. So it's gonna be interesting. It's gonna be interesting to see what happens. What I did discuss with Andrew Torres and I think what we both agree will definitely happen

is that whether Sullivan ultimately decides to grant this motion or not and dismiss the charge against Flynn, I think he will have an evidentiary hearing. And what comes out in that hearing might be more important than the ultimate decision, if that makes any sense, but we'll keep you posted either way And so now if you're wondering what the future is for Flynn. Let's go to Jordan Coburn. Hello. I'm welcome to Jordan's hot note I like our say welcome Welcome to as if I have a full studio set behind me Again, just in my kitchen on a desk with three legs instead of four

It's been like this the whole time which is amazing that it hasn't fallen over, honestly. Alright, my hot note here comes from reporting by the Daily Beast and it's about the, I know A.G.s going over the Flynn stuff in detail. That old Flynn stuff, but what I am going to be talking about is the term administration's plans for Flynn afterwards. So DOJ announced Thursday that they want to drop charges against Michael Flynn. Sullivan, the judge for that case, can still deny that motion.

However, if he doesn't deny the motion, then apparently what I read and what I understand is if Sullivan, like, let's set happen basically, then he can't be retried. So figures crossed for Sullivan denying the motion, but that's what the DOJ wants to do. If they're successful, they're saying not only are they trying to absolve him of any criminality, they're not there. Those are my words, not theirs. But the Trump administration wants to bring him back in a national politics. Nine senior Trump Admin officials, campaign staff, long time advisors, and associates have confirmed that they want Flynn to serve in a public facing role in Trump's

admin. They're trying to paint and reward him as a martyr. They've been doing this the whole time. You know, they're just continuing to do it. And they they said one even compared the ex-general, when I say they, they had the daily beast, one even compared to ex-general, who pleaded guilty to line to the FBI about his contacts with Russian officials to one of history's greatest human rights icons. And this quote's even better. It's from John McLaughlin. He's one of Trump's chief pollsters. He told the Daily Beast on Thursday. Years ago, when Nelson Mandela

came to America after years of political persecution, you could feel it coming. Can you feel the worst comparison in the world coming? He was treated like a rock star by Americans. Now after over three years of political persecution, General Flynn is our rock star. A big difference is that he was persecuted in America. That is like the most dumb quote I've ever read my whole life. It is that the- I also don't think I've ever heard a more offensive comparison in my whole life. Everything about that is completely wrong. God damn it's so bad. It's so fucking it's so insane. They're trying I mean they've they've just been ever since he switched to Sydney Powell with Drew's plea deal. He's like just trying trying to you know say

that the FBI was trying to set him up to lie. And then there was there were like internal notes that came out about the FBI's intentions with their interviews and it did say something about like either get him, get him to admit what he did basically or just get him to lie. And then once either of those things happen, we'll give it to the DOJ and let them decide. That's essentially what the notes said. But now the conservatives that have been constantly touting this idea that Flynn was led into some sort of like lie trap, fiendous lie trap, that now he's just a sad little bunny that got

caught and got helplessly mobbed by this cage of justice, but it's not the case at all, obviously. Also, when I read those notes, I was like, this is not upsetting to me. And the slightest because, first off, the amount of times that the sort of like high end, when I say high end, I guess I mean, like I was gonna say white criminal, but white criminal. Ha ha ha. Definitely white criminals. That's what I'm trying to say. Thanks, Jordans. when I say high end I guess I mean like I was gonna say white criminal but white criminal

Definitely white criminals. That's what I'm trying to say. Thanks Jordans. So conscious brain for just being direct when white criminals Do their shit they get to sit here and like you know bitch about being coerced into lying and stuff When it happens if it's happening to them. I don't care because they did the thing. They did the thing 100%. But this happens to black Americans and brown Americans all the fucking time and they try to threaten them with like, and this is where the FBI and the local judicial systems and stuff really fuck up is, you know, you get these people that have virtually very little understanding of how the court system sort of functions honestly to like, it's scary. And then they do intimidate people into saying that they've done something that they did it because they say if you just, you know, plead guilty to this, then you won't get this

crazy sentence. And then there's this person that has like little to no resources to actually combat some huge machine like the court systems. And those are the people that have no choice. Those are the people that wind up incriminating themselves because they weren't able to afford better legal advice. And no one was looking out for them. And like everything is fucked. Those are the people where this shit that Michael Flynn is trying to say happened to him

Is incredibly problematic, but when it's Michael Flynn and you actually did bad things. No one fucking cares dude. I don't care You deserve to be punished You used your position of power You deserve to be punished. You use your position of power to negotiate deals with foreign governments. You're getting paid by foreign governments. You're representative of the United States meeting with other representatives of Russia, lying to your own vice president, doing actions that led to the president that is the most insanely apologetic,

like criminal apologist that we've ever had in the White House, and even he fired you. I have zero sympathy for you. You're a fucking idiot that did this to yourself. So I really just, I hope that nobody sees that note and buys the sentiment that he is some sort of, you know, like weak, helpless person that got lured into this trap.

Like, shut the fuck up, dude. No, you didn't. Anyways. The position they're trying to get him is unclear. The source that said, this is what they're looking at, said that it was, it's maybe like a job in the administration, a role for the 2012 campaign or some other position, but one White House official did say back in May of 2017, right around when all this stuff is really going down, that Trump feels really, really, really bad

about firing him. And he genuinely thinks if the investigation is over Flynn can come back. And it looks like three years later on the dot, that played us coming to fruition. So we'll see what happens. Flynn, I do not feel sorry for you. And you are not Nelson. Nelson Mandela. God damn it. Nelson Mandela. You're not him. For many reasons. That should be so painfully obvious that that analogy wouldn't come out of any of your supporters' mouths.

But you have zero concept of race as a group. So of course, you would invoke that struggle with zero regard for any reality. Alright, that's been it everybody. Thank you for listening and stay well and be well. I love y'all. Okay, bye bye. Alright Jordan, thanks for that update. We will be right back with more headlines. There's a lot left in this show, so stick around. Hey everybody, it's A.G. The segment of Molar She Wrote is brought to you by my favorite puzzle game app called Best Fiends. One of the things I love about researching the daily

beans and Molar She Wrote is the further you dig into a story, the more layers you uncover, and that's part of what I love about the puzzle game best fiends. The more I play, the more fun it gets, the more I learn, the more I level up my little guys. It's just so much fun. And reaching every new level feels like uncovering a new layer in the story. But it's one you get to take part in. It's the longer you play, the more exciting it gets, the more strategy is employed. It's amazingly fun. A five-star rated game. The app is free to download. It's got a nice bright vibrant design, it's got fun characters, it's got a combination of fun story with challenging puzzles to engage your brain, which is really good for me to keep it awake during this pandemic thing that's going on. But you collect

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play. Download best fiends free on the Apple App Store or Google Play, that's Friends Without the R, Best Fiends. Alright, everybody, welcome back. So this week, Bill Barr finally released the transcripts from the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence from the Russia investigation back in 2017. Keep in mind, this is from when the Intelligence Committee

was led by Republicans, but these are mostly unredacted and are basically huge beans come true. Everything we've been reporting on for the past three years is basically parsed out in these interviews. There are dozens of interview transcripts including Kushner, Hope Hicks, Andy McCabe, Podesta, and FBI agent. And I want to go over the standout information in each of the major transcripts. One at a time. Today I'm going to cover a Don Jr., it's 240 page transcript. I've read it fully and I want to tell you about the standout things

that, you know, to me. And then, you know, next week, as soon as I read each transcript, I'll come out and I'll let you know what I found in it. First, Adam Schiff was very probative and establishing what sort of relationship Junior had with Rob Goldstone. Goldstone. And that's before the infamous email with the subject lion Russia Clinton sensitive. So junior kept insisting he didn't really have an established relationship with goldstone. He's just this weird flamboyant dude who emails him all the time and he sort of doesn't, he just ignores him, he knows him through. A mean agalar off, you know, he's his music promoter, and a mean agalar off, you know, was it, you know, performed at the Miss Universe pageant in 2013.

And when Shif asked, was this the first email regarding Russia wanting to help your father with his election? And Junior just answered, yes. Basically confirming Russia wanted to help with the election, and his lawyer immediately said, hey, whoa, that's a presumptive question, but it was too late. Junior had admitted Russia was in it for Trump by answering in the affirmative. That was interesting.

Junior then told Schiff he was working on a Trump Tower in Moscow in 2014 with the Agalara Ovs. As confirmed, we remember when we were like, I think there was a first Trump Tower Moscow. Besides the one that he was working on during the campaign. And here it is confirmed in this testimony, right there in black and white, Junior said that it didn't go anywhere, and he didn't know why, but we know why,

because that's how the Russians work. They promise you thing, they'd dangle stuff, and then they keep you on the hook, and then they let you off the hook, and then they put you back on the hook, and then they let you off the hook. Shift then asked why Junior had produced an additional three... He failed, well, okay, so basically like a day or two before

this testimony. Junior and his lawyers produced an additional 300 pages of emails. And he was like, why didn't you send these when we asked for them initially? And they were like, well, you know, we knew we were coming in here to talk to you. And so we did a last minute search and we found these. And so we sent them as soon as we found them. And when asked if they have given the committee everything, Trump cleverly said, everything that I'm aware of, not answering yes. In my view, means he knows there's probably more evidence he hasn't handed over

and didn't want to get caught in a lie. Then Junior admits to Schiff. He did discuss the emails with his father, with Council President after the meeting. And Junior's lawyer, Fudr Ffoss interjected to make sure Schiff knew that Trump senior also had counsel present when they discussed releasing the emails, therefore giving him a buffer zone on attorney client privilege, giving him that sort of,

you know, that claim that, you know, he has attorney with everyone had an attorney present, so attorney client privilege. So that was established by Fudrfossoss by Trump, Trump Jr.'s lawyer. That implicates them both, by the way, in the obstruction of justice, FYI, the obstruction of justice where Trump wrote the statement basically for the New York Times about the emails and the meeting, the June Trump Tower meeting. And that's also a lie because we know he discussed it with Hope Hicks and Trump kind of was either there on the call or told Hope

Hicks which statement to use and what not to include. And also, Trump kid Wrangler, Raphael was there as well. Though when asked if he discussed it with anyone else, Trump said he did not believe so, which of course is ambiguous enough to be let off the hook. So lie, but not a lie. He was also asked if this was the first time the campaign received an offer of help from Russia,

or if there are any other subsequent offers, and he said, I don't believe so. Again, lie. We know that Papadopolis was in touch with Clovis and the National Security Council about offers from Russia with dirt on Hillary. And if you don't think that got back to Manifort and Kushner, you are insane. And of course, if it gets to Manifort and Kushner, it gets to junior. In fact, Shiff asked multiple times if the Goldstone email was the first and only offer, which sort of, you know, when a, you know, when a congressperson asks multiple times,

are you sure? Now, this and, you you know you be careful with your answer, etc. They know the answer and they have proof of it and Then when asked about the famous reply if it's what you said I love it especially later in the summer Junior said I love it was a colloquial term and that Goldstone was a hyperbolic guy And he wasn't really sure that you know what he was talking about and he was busy and then he had the gall to tell the committee and shift that it's clear he wasn't that interested because why would he put it what you know if he was really that interested you know why would I put it off until the end of the summer which we all know the end of summer was in reference to closer

to the election right shift asked him explicitly if he was putting it off to the end of the summer, which we all know the end of summer was in reference to closer to the election, right? Shift asked him explicitly if he was putting it off to the end of the summer because he didn't care much about it or if he was saying the end of summer was the best time to receive derogatory information on Clinton. And Trump responded, quote, I don't even know we were dealing with a contested convention.

So it wasn't something I wanted to deal with right now. It didn't matter that much to me, but his actions would dictate otherwise. Shift-ass, if you weren't that interested in a meeting until late summer, if you're, you know, saying that when you said, I love it especially later in the summer. If you're trying to tell me that what you meant by later in the summer was it just wasn't that important to you and you could put it off until later in the summer. Why did you push? So hard. to you and you could put it off until later in the summer. Why did you push so hard? Why did you meet almost immediately after you sent that email? And Junior said, well, they pushed, so we met with them.

And this is the best. She says, what did you mean by, I love it. And Junior said, you know, if a friend says, hey, do you want to go grab a beer after work? Sure, I love it. I think it's a colloquial term of expression. I think it's pretty clear by when I say, you know, if it's what you say that I'm at least somewhat skeptical of what he's putting out, but again, I'd be willing to listen and shift is such a bad ass. He says, Well, he

wasn't offering you a beer. He was offering you damaging information on your political opponent, right? I love it. I love having a beer. I love political damaging foreign information. I love it. Then of course, Schiff asked repeatedly if Junior told his father about the meeting. And in the exchange, Junior tries to downplay the importance of Goldstone again by saying he's hyperbolic, he's flamboyant. I wanted to vetted out before I went to my dad because Goldstone is weird. Yet he moved mountains to make this meeting happen. People flew out from Moscow to take the meeting, almost immediately.

And it's an uncomfortable exchange, trying to get those two things to match up. And then we get to the three calls, of course. The first one is from Amin, Egalaraf. The second one is from a block number and Schiff won't let that one lie. He keeps asking if the block number is his father's. And, and juniors like, I don't know. And he said, is your father have a block number? And he's, he said, I don't know. And he's like, you don't know if your father's number is blocked when he

calls you. And I don't speak to my father that much. I don't recall. I don't recall. And then Schiff straight out asks him if he spoke with his father at.27 pm that day. And he says, not that I recall. Beria, all over north of him. The third call was the same number as the first call and shift asked if that was also a men, a men agalaraf. And again, junior did not recall. Then shift tries to establish that junior had more details about the meeting before it happened.

And when asked if a mean had let you know he had these two calls with Amin had that block number call and Schiff seems to be certain that they discussed the call. The first call to Amin was two minutes and he just wants to establish that junior had more details about the meeting before it happened. What was going to be handed over? And when he asked him mean, or when he asked if a mean left a voicemail about the content of the meeting, as Junior had indicated, he was like, I don't recall speaking to him. Maybe I spoke to him. Maybe I didn't. Maybe he thinks I spoke to him.

Maybe he left a voicemail. He's like, well, did he put in the voicemail? What was going to be in the meeting? And Junior says, I don't know. He may have believed we spoke. I just don't remember. It wasn't significant to me at the time. And eventually Junior admits he may have spoken to a mean, again, about the meeting, but didn't recall.

And then there's a sidebar conversation with Trump's lawyer. And then Tragaudy comes in and questions him and helps him establish that he did not know it was illegal to talk to this to talk to Russians about potentially having dirt. And that's significant because we know Muller didn't charge junior because he was too stupid to be a criminal. And he didn't know. He also added, I'm not a lawyer saying apparently you don't have to be a lawyer to know it's

illegal to accept foreign help in an election. And then Gowdy equates Veselnitz Gaah communicating with Glenn Simpson, a fusion GPS, to the Trump tower meeting when we all know one is legal and one is not. And then Junior lies again when asked later if he knew what form the dirt would be offered would take. He said he did not know, but he did know. And we knew. And he knew because he did public reporting shows.

It was about donors to the Clinton campaign from people connected to Russia, but that never materialized. Saying, we think some people, you know, I think it was in Florida, don't need to the Clinton campaign. They're Russian money launders. But that never materialized in the meeting,

even though we know it was asked about. And they were told about it. So it's just a lie. It just lies upon lies, but he gets out of it by saying he doesn't recall. And at one point, Trump, Jr. admits he texted Hope Hicks about the meeting when asked if those texts were provided to the committee. He says, no. Shifts like why?

He's like, I didn't think they're important. And so, yeah, I mean, sitting there making the assertion that they made this big effort to get all the relevant information to the committee ahead of the hearing and they handed over those 300 documents the last minute. And then he admits to discussing the New York Times story with Hope Hicks. So he goes from, I don't remember to, yeah, we talked about it. And at that point, Trump's lawyer starts objecting vehemently and takes a sidebar. And upon returning, junior lies his pants off about the message Hope Hicks and Trump senior, now admittedly drafted

for the New York Times on behalf of junior. And the exchange is uncomfortable. And Trump admits Hope Hicks and his dad helped draft the statement, obstruction of justice, playing his day. He also admitted he believed it was his father that told Hope Hicks to remove from the statement to the press that Russia was helping the Trump campaign. And we knew that from the Mueller report as well. And here we have Junior telling Schiff this in the Hipsy testimony. Schiff also established, established as Trump's senior opted to remove the

language about the meeting, being about obtaining dirt on Hillary Clinton. That didn't make it into the final statement either. That was taken out. And it was Trump Daddy who wanted this shorter version without those things mentioned. We've gone all this from public reporting and now it's coming out in this testimony here. And then only after a long sidebar with his lawyer, and another, I do not believe so, kind of answer, shift establishes that, after that shift then establishes that particular G20 that Trump was returning from, when he was on the plane, helping hope

hit craft this statement to the press, that G20 included clandestine meetings with Putin himself. And of course, junior didn't recall. And then finally, when Swalwell asked junior, if he had any conversations with his father about the meeting, and junior says he was certain he didn't recall, Swalwell responded, being certain you don't recall is different

than being certain it didn't happen. And junior says, I never said I was certain it didn't happen. I said I don't recall. So all in all, Junior says I do not recall to pretty much every remaining question from the dams. But those are the standout lies that I could find. We talked about this because I know that Mueller requested the transcripts of these and we thought they were investigating that he lied to Congress.

He perjured himself. That never came to fruition. It might have been handed off in appendix D of the Mueller report and is now buried. But here it is, plain as day. I suggest you read this transcript. They are all of them. They're full of pretty much everything that we've been saying. It's on the HIPipsy website, the House of

Representatives, Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence website. So check that out. And in other news, Judge Roberts, Chief Justice Roberts, has issued an administrative temporary stay in the Mueller Grand Jury Materials case. Now basically all the courts up till now have said DOJ has to hand over the Mueller Grand Jury Materials. They had to mail 11th to file to either hand over the Grand Jury Materials to the House, the representative's House Judiciary Committee, during N Jerry Nadler asked for them back in July of last year, or to get a stay or file with SCOTUS or the DC Circuit Court of Appeals. The DC Circuit Court of Appeals denied the stay, but Chief Justice John Roberts of the

Supreme Court has granted not granted the full stay. They've granted an administrative temporary stay while they weigh whether or not they're going to grant the full stay. And they've given the House of Representatives until May 18th to turn in their filing as to why they oppose this day. And so we should hear something shortly after May 18th on that. So don't freak out. I repeat, do not freak out. A lot of people are going around saying, Chief Justice Roberts just blocked the molar grand jury materials forever. We're all gonna die.

That is not what happened. He's issued a tiny temporary stay, giving the house time to file their objection to this day while the Supreme Court weighs this day. I don't know what the ultimate goal is gonna be, but this is not the end of the road. So just wanted to let you know about that. And of course tomorrow, or day after tomorrow, Tuesday, is the Mizar's and Deutsche Bank

argument in the Supreme Court that, you know, house versus the, you know, they submitted subpoenas for Deutsche Bank information and information from Mazar's and that will be heard in oral arguments that we can listen to on Tuesday morning 10am Eastern time. So I will be listening to it. And because of expect Clinton v Jones to come up a lot because that is the ruling from Supreme Court previously that says a president isn't immune from these kind of investigations in private life. And this is even a step further away from that because they aren't demanding it from the president or they aren't demanding it from private citizen Trump. They're demanding it from third parties, Mazar's and Deutsche Bank. So, Scotus should not be ruling

or dismissing this case, but we'll see. We'll see what happens. They did ask for briefs on justice ability. And we'll see what happens. Actually, the briefs on justice ability are in the Muller Grant. Are they in the McGand case? I'm sorry.

I should know this off the top of my head immediately. They asked for justish ability in the McGahn case. So they did not ask for justish ability in this case, but I'm sure it will come up. And I think that the obvious press when it here is Clinton v. Jones. And that's according to George Conway, Kelly Ann's husband who wrote a really interesting opinion opinion piece in the Washington Post about it. So definitely check that out. And I'll be listening and we'll be telling you about it next week. And that is our show for today. So thank you so much for listening. I appreciate it very,

very much. And thanks to Jordan for your contribution to this show. Thanks to Glenn Kirschner for the amazing interview. And we will see you next week. Until then, take care of yourselves and take care of each other. I've been AG. And this is Mollershi Road. Mollershi Road is executive produced and directed by A.G. and Jordan Coburn with engineering and editing by Mackenzie Mazal and Starburn's industries. Our marketing manager, production and social media direction is by Amanda Reader, fact-checking your research by A.G. Jordan Coburn and Amanda Reader, and our knowledgeable listeners.

Our web design and branding are by Joao Reader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is mullersyrope.com. Season 4 of How We Win Is Here For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history, again again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans in crucial state house races and fighting back a non-existent red wave. But the Magga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government

now control the House. Thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws and the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to seize power dismantle our government and take away our freedoms so the official podcast of the persistence is back with season 4 there's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself. We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country.

And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it, with messaging and communications expert co-founder of Way to Win, and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action, and hope. I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona.

And this is how we win.