Jack - Mall Panafort (feat Barb McQuade)

Episode Date: January 20, 2020

This week on Mueller, She Wrote, we are discussing the fourth batch of Mueller memos, how dangerous Bill Barr is to the independence of the justice department, and we have an interview with former US attorney Barb McQuade about Lev Parnas. We appreciate your support of our show! Become a patron at patreon.com/muellershewrote

They might be giants that have been on the road for too long. Too long. And they might be giants aren't even sorry. Not even sorry. And audiences like the shows too much, too much. And now they might be giants that are playing their breakthrough album, all of it. And they still have time for other songs.

They're fooling around. Who can stop? They might be giants and their liberal rock agenda. Who? No one. Disadvantaged pay for with somebody else's money. Thanks to Noom for supporting Mollershi Road. Getting in shape isn't about a number on the scale.

Noom helps you develop new relationships with food, build healthier habits, and feel better about yourself. Sign up for your trial today at Noom.com slash AG. And thanks to Daily Harvest for supporting Mollershi Road. Daily Harvest makes it easy to eat well. They deliver a thoughtfully sourced chef-crafted food right to your door. Go to dailyharvest.com and enter promo code AG25 to get $25 off your first box.

And thanks to Best Fiends for supporting Muller She Wrote. Best Fiends is a unique and exciting puzzle experience unlike other puzzle games out there. Best Fiends updates the game monthly with new levels and events so it never gets old. Download free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. Warning, this podcast contains laughter. This is Greg Olyar, the author of Dirty Rubles, and you're listening to Mueller, she wrote. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said.

That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time, a two in that campaign. And I didn't have, not have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for? I have nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red hailing. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist. You're a communist. Hello, and welcome to Mola Shiroot.

I'm your host A.G. and with me today, our Jordan Coburn. Hello. And Mandy Reader. Hello. We have another Monster Show plan today. Jordan has got, I can't ever keep an under an hour. There's just no way.

Jordan, you're going to cover a Treasury employee that's pleading guilty to leaking suspicious activity reports, those SARS we talked about a while ago. I'll go over the fourth batch of Mueller memos and how dangerous Bill Barr is to the independence of the Justice Department. And we have an interview with former US attorney, University of Michigan law professor, MSNBC, and NBC legal analyst and contributor, Barb McQuade, about what kind of witness indicted Giulianiiani associate Lev Parnas is after those explosive Mato interviews. And by the way, his name is pronounced Parnas

and we just learned this, but guess who knew how to pronounce it a long time ago? Who? Moo, there's your hint. You nice? Oh! Joyce Vance picked up on that in one of his interviews from a while back talking about I don't know anybody

I don't know anything about left Parnaus and and Like and she's like hmm. It's like you knew how to pronounce his name like you actually talked to the guy I know the first of us didn't know that no interesting we're all Parnas But it's Parnos Tarje Maybe his origin story is just people pronouncing his name incorrectly. And then he was like, this is what I'm gonna do in life.

This will be my contribution to society. Clearly it's nothing else. So I can see that. Yeah, it's his revenge. Yeah, or they've just been crying together for a long time. That's also the other option. Yeah, I think Cornen was like,

there's a lot of these criminal hangers on and they're like, oh, all hanging on to Trump. That's also the other option. Yeah, I had a Cornon was like the you know, there's a lot of these criminal hangers on and they're like all hanging on to Trump That's interesting, but yeah, okay Normal totally We do have a lot to get to but we have some corrections. So let's do that before we get started I made a mistake. Oh. All right, first from Beth Rosenstein. That's a really pretty name. Yes, it is.

It's like German for a Ryzenstein. It probably isn't. But it just sat. That's how German works. Judaism is indeed a religion, but Jews are not a race, but rather a people, an ethnic group with a common history, language culture, some of us, DNA. We are not exactly like other religions, like Islam and Christianity. We don't believe God wants everyone to convert to Judaism, and we're not exactly like other

ethnic groups, any one of an ethnic background who converts becomes a full-fledged Jew. A Jew remains a Jew, whatever their religious beliefs are. Thanks for reading, I believe you are open to learning, which is why I bother to write. Yeah, thank you. That's a really good way to put it, honestly. I do, I appreciate that. And the whole, we don't believe God wants everyone

to convert to Judaism. I feel that because my understanding is, it's actually really hard. They like turn you down a bunch of times and make sure you really want. It's not that you can't just go, all right, today. Right. It's a whole process. Yeah, it's a very, it's a thing.

From Bill Held on Andalus Kies, Hide of Connecticut of Parna's email fame is not a representative. He has actually never held public office. He's just running for the fifth district. Even the Republican party wants him booted out of the race due to vile comments he made about Connolly Harris. Chris Farley would probably play him on Saturday night life. But a lot of people we lost him many years ago.

Yeah, that'd be so good. He would too. I could see him doing his little back and forth. Dance with his little coat. And she could see the dance right now. Fat, hot, and a little coat. And she could see the dance right now. Fat high down a little coat. Alright, and that's not shaming, that's just quoting. Yes. James Corden could do it.

Yes. Yes. He was forced Johnson, maybe he only wants to retain British characters. That's an interesting correction because I knew he never held off. I'm not sure when I may have accidentally said that. So good correction if I do. From LMO, LOL, thank you for the informative podcast. I just wanted to clear up the meaning of the word, a sessioning, which I believe is being used in regards to Turkey's entry into the UN. I'm an archivist and a sessioning is the term used to describe the processing of new materials into an archival museum collection. Deassessioning is when items are removed

from a collection. Just enough, I, in case you hadn't heard those terms before, I appreciate all the work you do keep us informed, to keep us informed. Very cool. This reminds me of the National Archives blurring out the women's march photos. So I guess blaring them out and then assesioning them to the National Archives is a pile of shit and then and then de-assessioning it because you've apologized for being a dickhead is a correct usage of that. Am I using that right? I think so. You let you let us know Elmo. Glen Fleetwood. I love your band. Very informative. I know it's Mick. Okay. Very informative work, AG. I'll get a correction on that. The nuclear proliferation treaty is not a deal.

It's treaty. A treaty holds legal significance. Trump only calls it a deal to feign expertise over the topic. Don't carry water for Trump calling it a deal. All right, I won't. Thank you. And those are corrections. If you have any for us, head to mullishiroute.com. Click contact, select corrections, and build us a deal. All right, I won't, thank you. And those are corrections. If you have any for us, head to mullershearote.com,

click contact, select corrections, and build us a compliment sandwich. We will get it right eventually. We have no time to waste with the amount of news that came out us this weekend and all last week. The news is coming at space force speeds. So let's jump in with just the facts. The Senate impeachment trial began Thursday

with a swearing in if she's Justice John Roberts and the senators. It was very solemn, made me feel like someone other than us is taking it seriously after the shit show and in the house, particularly by circus Republicans. Though I'm utterly convinced a good number of Republicans were sworn in on a hustler magazine and crossing their fingers behind their backs when they were signing the oath book, promising to do impartial justice. I just feel like that wasn't real. Yeah, got to love low-budget camera setups. Can't get them from the back. See those crossies. We'll never know.

Cross Apple Stoff oath book. Nancy held the articles like a boss and during that short 30-day delay which included the holiday break. We found out that the Office of Management and Budget set in emails Trump was directly responsible for the hold of the Ukraine aid. We found out from the government office of accountability that withholding the aid is illegal under the Empowerment Control Act. We found out Bolton is willing to testify if the Senate is, if Senate subpoena's him. And we got the Parnos interview, along with truckloads of documentary evidence, including emails and text messages and WhatsApp messages, corroborating his statements,

which is very important and I'll talk to Barb McQuade about that later. All of that puts unholy amounts of pressure on Republicans to vote for calling witnesses, and we will learn Tuesday what the initial rules of the trial will be. It is said it will contain a provision asked for by four moderate Republicans that would require an up or down vote on witnesses and documents after the opening arguments and Senator question sections are complete. Remember, senators have to write their questions down.

They don't get to ask them with their mouths. Tuesday is expected to be contentious. As Dems will no doubt argue for amendments, which they are allowed to do, requiring witnesses be added in the initial rules, or allowing for witnesses be added in the initial rules, though I assume the moderate Republicans are okay with the up or down vote and probably won't go for that. Something to consider, there will be more evidence that comes to light in the space between approval of the initial rules and that up or down vote if it ends up making it into the

rules. I'm starting to see tiny glimmers of hope we could actually see some Republicans vote for removal. But I'm more inclined to wait and see as Senator Collins is consistently let us down the primrose path only to yank the football away last second, which I think I just read an article saying now she won't doesn't want witnesses. Speaking of this and I don't know if this is true or not so don't slaughter me, but apparently Stephen King lives across the street from Susan Collins and he has like a truck with a billboard on it facing her living room window that says. Seen pictures of it. Yeah that says like don't you know

don't defend Trump's crimes essentially. Yeah she's all the inspiration he needs on just sitting there as well right now says looking across the way she's the new lady of misery. That's Stephen King in the house. How's that? hobbling his feet. Did you see that meme? Somebody... Okay, so misery is the movie, right? Where the lady kidnaps the author who's played by James Conn and keeps him there to write the stories because she wants a better ending. She wants the ending that she wants and she actually ends up hobbling him, which is an old school thing where

you take a sledgehammer, break them, break and you know and it's horrifying to watch that whole scene I can't even watch it. It's terrible. I should have done a content warning there But somebody somebody did somebody did a movie poster of that of misery with her with the hammer but the but the movie is called footloos of misery with her with the hammer, but the movie's called Footloose. Oh God, that's funny. It might need to be in the newsletter next week. That is so funny. You have to find it. I don't think I saved it.

I might have though, maybe it laughed so hard. We have to laugh. This podcast contains other. So, it's our fictional traumas. I feel better about laughing. Yes. About. I know. Trying to make jokes about actual real crime. So, uh, Tromba. Tromba is our fictional trombas, which I feel better about laughing about. I know, trying to make jokes about actual real crime is harder. If no ankles have left, been left, um, stoned, and it's okay to laugh, leave no ankle on

stoned. Um, um, Tromba has added Epstein lawyer Alan Dershowitz and Clinton prosecutor Ken Stark to his team of intrepid assholes this week TV lawyers all in response Monica Lewinsky tweeted this is definitely an are you fucking kidding me kind of day? Dershowitz is said he's not acting as Trump's lawyer which to me makes him a witness which means I guess it's okay to call witnesses now. He's also working for Trump for free which seems like an illegal campaign contribution to me.

But of course, maybe that's why he's saying he's not a lawyer. He's an advocate. Trump hasn't staffed the federal election commission, so they don't have a quorum, but maybe I would expect the chair, Jane Wine-Trob, any day to maybe say something about that. Call him out. Ders plans to argue that abusive power

and obstruction of Congress aren't impeachable offenses. And if he's not a lawyer, but a witness, someone should be able to cross examine him and ask if he thinks, bribing a foreign government to help you win an election is an impeachable offense. And are you just not liking calling that abusive power? What would you call it? What would you call it?

Like a high misdemeanor, a high crime, like whatever, it's a semantics argument, but yeah, Dershowitz says, I'm not a lawyer, I'm there to defend my client is the constitution. Yeah, gross. Yeah, I was, but he had a perfect opportunity to call him during the hearing in the house where they had legal scholars

argue the constitutionality of impeachment. Yeah, absolutely. And watching Dershowitz try to like play language games with all of this on CNN was, you know, when he was like, well, it wasn't Trump who hired me. It was his legal team. And I'm not a lawyer for the president. I'm an advocate. Like, what the fuck are you talking about? Yeah, so you're a witness. Yeah. Because in trials, you have the defendant, the plaintiff, lawyers, the jury, witnesses, and a judge. Yeah, there's no hype man's just sitting behind you.

Just running up after everything, like, and just adding motherfucker to it. Just squirting, gatoring in your mouth. Abuse of power is not an impeachable offense motherfucker. He's just disappearing back behind the curtain. He's like, how do we have a technical job here? I'm just here to hype you up. Wow, mighty, mighty boss tone. I'm just a dancing guy in the background. It's skanking.

Planned pants. It paid. We're in plaid pants and getting paid. Alan Dershow. That's what we're calling him from now on. His hype man. Actually, I feel like to fight Rudy for that particular title. Uh, hype man. Yeah, at feel like to fight Rudy for that particular title. Hight man. Yeah, at least Rudy's doing shit, I guess.

It's bad shit, but I mean, he's like earning a title. Some kind. He's moving, thinking hustling. Later in the show, I'm going to discuss Parnauss as a witness with our guest former US Attorney, Barma Quaid. That's during the interview, so you'll definitely want to hear that.

Also in the news this week, disgusting child sex trafficker and Trump proxy at the Seychelles meeting with Demetri of an Eric Prince pleaded guilty to his charges of sex trafficking and child pornography. I cannot wait for him to go to prison. I'm still waiting for him to be brought up on charges of straw man donations for the UAE.

But, you know, with with bar and charge, I'll go into that in hot notes, but I don't think a lot of that might come might be happening. I wonder what the sentencing guidelines are for his child sex crimes. It's a lot. Yeah, so they might have I wonder if they're like, whatever he's going to be gone. That's all that matters. Yeah.

And that happens a lot. I mean, that's what had that, you know, I seemingly what happened with half of the people who worked on Trump's campaign that went to prison. Right. They were like, well, we got him for that and we'll put him away and hope that he 900 when he gets out. Or like, even just mobsters when they put them away for tax evasion or something, it's easier than like,

trying to pursue all of their, a murder charge. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we learned in a court filing late Friday night, this is gonna to piss you all off. And I'm sorry, it was Rod Rosenstein that authorized the release of the struck and page texts. If you'll recall from the amazing interview, Lisa Page did with Molly

John Fast in the Daily Beast. We learned that the Justice Department called reporters in the middle of the night told him to come into a skiff and check this shit out, but don't tell anyone we gave it to you. Well, in a late-night court filing Friday, we learned it was indeed Rod Rosenstein that authorized that. From the intrepid Josh Gerstein at Politico, former Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein authorized a release to the media of the texts. Rosenstein also said in the filing that he did so to protect Struck in Page from the drip effect of incremental releases by lawmakers, which would have been illegal.

So here he is, wispy pliable adoosh of a man saying, you should thank me. This revelation is actually part of the Justice Department's defense against the lawsuit filed by Peter Struck. In November, the Department of Justice asked Judge Jackson if he asked you to throw out Struck's lawsuit, and Struck's lawyer filed a response saying the suit should proceed because they're being vague about who made the call to release the texts. So this is Rod's way of saying, okay, well now you know, and you can dismiss the lawsuit now because it was me.

But that doesn't begin to address his wrongful termination of struck or the violation of privacy. This is all a little horseshit. I'm sure Trump told him to do it and he did it when he released the text. And now he's trying to say it was because he was being generous and we should just let the whole thing go. And this all comes from the same Department of Justice that is again investigating Comey for a leak from two years ago after agencies and Specter General found nothing coming close to criminality. So leak the struck-and-page text, totally cool,

Comey leaked to a story to the press that he's authorized to leak two years ago, go to jail. Makes perfect sense. Yeah, so Rod is saying that they were actually doing a solid because if he didn't really sit, then it was gonna come out through congressional members. So then wouldn't your next step be to just like tell Congress to stop? Like you're the, yeah, we're holding accountable

as the top cop in the land in the Mueller investigation. Exactly. Not to be like go after Mueller and McCabe and everybody comb me for leaks. Right. Quote unquote. Yeah. And your hot note is about a quote unquote leak. Exactly. Yeah. I was thinking that when you said that. Mm-hmm. So like it's super not okay when this person did it. And then Rod can just say, oh, I was just getting ahead of what some other bad person was gonna do. Teague peating me, we go way back, I love Lisa Paige. Wow, I was just trying to help him out. Yeah.

Well, both of their lawsuits are still out there and I don't know that I don't think they'll be dismissed. But that beans on that, we don't know for sure. We don't know what's going on in the department of justice these days, but that would be up to for sure. We don't know what's going on in the in the department of justice these days But that would be up to a judge. What is Rod doing nowadays? I don't care. Rod Hey, Rod Leave it in

All right, well, we'll be right back. We have more news including a Russian hack into Burisma and a third attendee at the meeting Giuliani had it main justice with former Alpha Bank lawyer, Brian Benchkowski. It's an incredible story, so stay with us. Hey everybody, it's AG in this episode of Mollarschi Road is brought to you by NUM. I'm a pretty goal-oriented person. Like anyone though, I can be tripped up and prone to procrastination and sometimes laziness,

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and over 60% have stuck with their goals for at least a year It's the perfect time to make a step toward healthier habits to sign up for your child today visit noomnoom.com Sla-ag. What do you have to lose visit noom.com slash AG to start your trial today? That's noomnoom.com slash AG All right, everybody welcome back. So five days ago the New York Times dropped a bomb on us. Russia hacked the Ukrainian gas company, Berisma. That's at the center of Trump's impeachment. This pretty much identical to the hacking operation carried out by Russia in 2016. Not only was it Russia, it was the GRU, and more specifically it was Fancy Bear, the arm

of the GRU responsible for hacking the D-triple C in the DNC, in the run-up to the last presidential election. The story reads like the Mueller report, Fancy Bear used low-tech fishing schemes to trick users at Berezeman to using their credentials to log in to fake Berezeman subsidiary websites, then they would use those credentials and poses and poise to gain access to their networks. The hacking attempts began in early November as the impeachment hearings began. It's not clear what the Russians were looking for according to experts. I'm thinking it could just be as simple as a Russian assisted diversion from the impeachment talks.

It could be as simple as that. California State Senator John Morgan from Brentwood works for a cybersecurity firm called Area One and they recently released a report detailing the hacking operations of Burisma Holdings. Senator Morgan says Area 1 has the ability to catalog the entire web every 10 days by using a high-speed crawler. So from what I can gather, they monitor about 150 to 200 known hacking operations globally. Summer Crime syndicates come from summer state operated. And by cataloging the web so frequently, they're able to use TTPs,

or they're able to see tools, tactics, and procedures commonly used by state-sponsored and crime syndicate hackers. Morgan didn't say what his company's relationship is to Barisma, but what it seems like is they crawl the web, they see hacks, and they reach out to the companies that have been hacked to sell their services. Much like the company you may have heard of called CrowdStrike. And much of what they found is being kept secret because of the sensitivity of the issue. But Morgan did say they noticed

similarities between this hack and the 2016 fancy bear hacks and that there is a correlation of the timing and the hack beginning, what happened at the beginning of the impeachment trial. There's a correlation. Quote, GRU has attempted to insert itself in the 2020 election and it can't be ignored. Now, one would think our FBI would be all over this and they may be that we haven't heard anything about it, but Ukraine sure has shit has. So two days after the news of the hack dropped,

we learned that Ukrainian authorities open an investigation into the hack. And the day after that, we learned they're asking our FBI for help, which means our FBI hasn't reached out to them, which is Buccane bananas. On Thursday, Ukraine's Minister of Internal Affairs announced they had started a criminal proceeding around the hack of Burisma and noted the authorities were seeking help from the FBI and the California Company, Area One. Announcement in the investigation into the Burisma hack came the same day Ukraine announced a criminal investigation into whether Yvonnevich had been tracked by associates of Giuliani and Parnaas.

So it looks like Ukraine's law enforcement is more trustworthy than our own. I hope they share their findings globally. I hope this is a signal that Zelensky isn't taking shit anymore, but what a terrible position to be in, especially in a hot war with Russia. And now it seems like Trump, Putin, and our Justice Department are all playing for the same team, and that puts Ukraine in grave danger. I feel really fucking bad for Zelensky and for the Ukrainian people, you know, because they, we've said this a million times, but they really, really count on our support in our ally ship to protect themselves from further invasion and take over by Russia.

So it's a tough position for him to be in. Especially someone who's so new to politics. I mean, he was a dick piano guy like three years ago. Dic piano guy. No offense. Sure, he's a perfectly great, you know. Well, he ran on a non-corruption ticket. Yeah.

Totally. And they were trying to remove the corrupt people. And the corrupt people are the ones Trump wanted to stay so he can be corrupt with them. And then trying to say that he's against corruption. It's absolutely bananas. And here's something that's fucking nuts. Remember when Giuliani met with Brian Benschkowski? He's the head of the criminal division at the Department of Justice and when he was appointed we were like, what? Because he's a former lawyer

from a firm Kirkland and Ellis that represented Alpha Bank. And Alpha Bank had that server that communicated with Trump Tower in 2015, where Herman Kahn worked, who's the stepdad of not stepdad, but father-in-law of Vandersworn, who was indicted and worked with Manafort and Gates to whitewash the Temeschenko report, Huziana Kovac's political opponent. The one that Gregory Craig got arrested for lobbying to the New York Times without registering as a foreign agent. Yeah, so that Brian Benchkowski, who recently, by the way, got a secret ethics waiver, so we wouldn't have to recuse himself from some secret bullshit they didn't tell us about. Well, Giuliani met with Brian to discuss top secret, a top secret client of Rudy's that

was facing extradition to try to get him off the hook. I thought for sure it was for Tosh, but it turns out it was that Venezuelan guy that he and Eric Prince have been pallying around with that had Maduro connections. Any who, we just learned Friday that Bill fucking bar was at that meeting too. The meeting that Brian Benchkassi said he would have never taken if he knew Giuliani associates, Parnasson, Fruman were about to be indicted. Bar was at that meeting and bar was at the meeting where they talked about giving for Tasha break too. God, this is when he's attorney general. Yeah.

Doesn't he have other shit to do? Nope. His only job is to discredit the 2016 investigation. Yeah. He keeps finding dirt on the Biden's. That's his only fucking job. Right. And block Mueller's investigations that were handed off by Rosenstein.

Yeah. He keeps showing up at these like very intimate meetings and intimate parts of this whole scheme. It's like, how the fuck are you there? Like you, I mean, I hate to say this, but you see more important, yeah, like it seems like your work is much as above this, outside of the corruption element of it. It's like, yeah, truly, it does seem increasingly

so that his only point in that job is to do this. Maybe it's like, what's that show where the CEO goes and stands down on the line and does the factory stuff? CEO, what is that? Undercover Boss. Undercover Boss. That's what Boris. Oh God.

Oh yeah, that's so funny. No, I'm down here with the people, learning what's really going on. Undercover Boss, if they also started skipping the company and taking their own profits. Undercover Mob if they also started skiving the company and taking their own profits undercover mob boss That show is I such mixed feelings about it because sometimes it can be like heartwarming to some extent But other times you're just like wow, I really took you getting in here and getting into skies

And like emotionally manipulating your employees to find out what a hard time they're having to want to pay them where? Okay, is that always the end of the episode? they're having to want to pay them where? Okay, is that always the end of the episode? I understand. I don't want it. I understand people through trickery is love. Yeah. Fun and normal.

Yes. Put it in terms of a sociopath CEO can understand. Before we go to a break, some awesome news. As we all know back in December, Ted Lu accused Devon Moones as conspiring with Lev Parnas, a lawyer for Nunez, who happens to be a Republican on the House Intel Committee named Stephen Biss, wrote Ted Liu a letter threatening to sue him. Then Liu tweeted out that letter, along with his brief response, which read, Dear Mr. Biss, in response to your letter dated December 31, 2019,

in which you state your client Congressman David Nunez will sue me if I don't, among other actions, issue a public apology to Mr. Nunez. It is true that I stated Congressman Nunez worked with Lev Parnas and conspired to undermine our own government. As you know, truth is a defense. So go read the documents and text messages provided

by Mr. Parnas to the House of Representatives and watch his interview on the Rachel Maddo show, which aired January 15, 2020, that directly implicates Mr. Nunes. I welcome any lawsuit from your client and look forward to taking discovery of Congressman Nunes, or you can take your letter and shove it, sincerely Ted Lu courtesy copy Devon Nunes. Wow boy. So the shove it thing, how do you all feel feel about that love it? I mean outside from being awesome Objectively, ah, you know what?

Fucking cares anymore. Thanks for the times where it lived in yeah, I guess so It's not very professional. It's not but I also would like to say Ted Lou followed me on Twitter and then unfollowed me So I have a personal vendetta against I see He could take then unfollowed me so I have a personal vendetta against my friends. Oh I see. He could take us on follow and shut it. No I'm just kidding. Every time his name comes up though I'm like triggered. Like you're a little false boyfriend or something. Yeah I'm like you bitch. I wasn't good enough for you. You don't like my dick jokes. You're taking these social media like, for a series of years, the fame has gone to your head. Oh, good.

It's the old Space Man goodbye. Yeah. Anyway, we're in Camo, because that's the Space Force, you know? Yeah. But yeah, when I read that, originally, my own personal insertions aside, I was thinking, that's, yeah, I mean, outside,

I was surprised. I didn't see more talk around this whole idea of it being unprofessional. I was thinking, yeah, I mean, outside, I was surprised. I didn't see more talk around this whole idea of it being unprofessional. Well, he did come back and say, you're unprofessional, I'm sad and mad and I'm a little bit more. Yeah, I guess I meant liberals. Liberals not give a fuck.

Cause like you said, who fucking cares anymore? The shit that comes out of Trump's. I don't know about. I don't know about Twitter is like a couple years ago. A couple years ago, I would have been like, you're cheapening the discourse. And now I'm just like, this is the discourse. Yeah. Yeah.

And that's a real point that I'm gonna have to come to, I think, in the same way that came to this. It's known for sort of feistyness. Fisty. Yeah, totally. You know, I mean, he's calling me impeachment hoax. So we gotta be a little spicy up when they're Democrats sometimes. Yeah. But also it's true. It was under pressure. You know, I mean, he's calling me impeachment hoax. So we got to, you got to be a little spicy up in there,

Democrats sometimes. Yeah. But also it was unforfishing. Also the person that he's responding to is a complete joke as well. So it's not like he's responding to Trump, I guess, who is also a joke, but a different kind of joke.

I don't know and farm in peace quietly away from us. Did Lou? No, definitely. Oh. On his 100 square foot farm. Oh, that makes sense. Well, it's in register, you see, because he doesn't have a farm. I find it more believable.

You said Lou has a farm. It's way more believable, Ted Lou was a farmer. Yeah, I guess I mentioned, I just want all, yeah, I just want all of them to be happy after all of this bullshit. That's because you're a good person, Jordan. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All. Yeah.

All right, we'll be right back with hot notes and another round of the fantasy indictment lead right after this. Hey everybody, this segment of Mollershoe Road is brought to you by Daily Harvest. Everyone has a new year's resolution to eat better or to be healthier and sometimes it sticks, sometimes it doesn't. But not this year. This year you should try a service called Daily Harvest. It makes it so easy to eat well.

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Hot notes. All right so what's going on with the Treasury Jordan? Yes so um a C and Y announced that Natalie Mayflower Sours Edwards. That's her whole name. Mayflower Sours. Natalie Mayflower Sours Edwards. That's a good nickname of a boxer right? And in the blue corner Natalie may flower sour

Edward Yeah, are you ready to rumble? Yeah, it is a pretty epic name. We could get sued for that probably really what we do the fantasy diamond links I'm just so fit That's funny. I believe the rumble part and then I think that'll be good Leave all this in because it's why not. It's funny. We're going to have to change our fantasy and dive and intro to like, better not to not be.

Be. Well, we run that. I'm going to be a dided. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we can be sued by two entities. Yeah, this is great. Just one giant as loss. OK, anyway, so S. Okay. Anyway, so

S.D. and Y announced that Natalie Mayflower Sowers Edwards, Edwards, who is the former senior advisor at Fincin. That's the Treasury Department's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, very important group. She has pled guilty to conspiring to unlawfully disclose suspicious activity reports or SARS to the media specifically Buzzfeed. So US Attorney Jeffrey S. Berman said, as she has now admitted, Natalie Mayflower Sours Edwards, a former senior-level Fin Sen employee abuse her position of trust by agreeing to repeatedly disclose highly sensitive information contained in suspicious activity reports, maintaining

the confidentiality of SARS, which are filed by banks and other financial institutions to alert law enforcement to potentially illegal transactions, is essential to permit them to serve their statutory function and the defendant's conduct violated the integrity of that critical system and the law." So these were the stars that were related to the conduct of molar-report stars such as Paul Manafort, Rick Gates, the Russian Embassy, Bhutna, and Prevazon Alexander. She apparently saved the file to a flash drive, transmitted them to a reporter via photos and encrypted messaging apps, and she also apparently talked to them, or shared internal communications

that she had read at Finson internally. Do you remember, when we did stories, like some folks were in the treasury were worried that some SARS had gone missing, like they weren't in the database. They wonder if that's tied to this. Yeah. I remember there being a lot of issues

with the suspicious activity reports. There was something else where there were Obama holdover, Treasury employees that were shutting these down or something like that. It was so long ago. Yeah, I hadn't heard the term SARS since really we were going through the Mueller report, but there was a lot of, there's a minute there where we are reporting on a lot of stories that were related to it. I'd have to go back though and refresh my memory because I think you're totally right.

There's a lot of deeper connections just on this topic alone, but everything I just said though is the side of obviously the feds. Here's the side of her, basically. This is a statement from her attorney. He says, she was of the view that certain critical facts weren't being handled the right way by the government agencies whose responsibility it was to handle these things.

She went to the media and said, if I can't trust the government officials to handle this, I think I can trust the media to handle this and bring this to the attention of the American people. He said of how the family is taking everything. They're all taking it really hard. I think it's a really sad day for all of them. She was motivated by things that she believed were important. She brought issues that she thought were important, compelling issues to the press so that the press could bring them to the people. She didn't trust that the government was doing the right thing with these issues, and I think that gives

a daughter every reason to be proud of her mother. So that's a pretty emotional appeal, but I think I buy into that very much. There's probably an immense amount of frustration that would happen when you're working in a group whose purpose is to be looking over these things and to feel like you don't have faith that the government that you've honestly, you know, worked for probably for a decent amount of your life at this point isn't doing the right thing. That's a tough existential crisis to be put in. She definitely sees herself as a whistleblower, whether or not folks sort of believe that profile or not, I guess, is up to you.

She did plead guilty to one kind of conspiracy and faces a maximum sentence of five years in prison, and she will be sentenced on June 9. Oh, check this out. From Mueller, she wrote a October 18, 2018. I want to talk about a story that dropped Tuesday about a Treasury employee that was charged for leaking banked out about Maniford Gates and Bhutna. Natalie Mayflower Edwards is her name. She was a senior official at Department of Treasury's Financial Cines Enforcement known as FinSEN, named in a criminal complaint for two council ledging Sheeliex suspicious activity reports about untoward banking transactions. The journalist and news organization Sheeliex,

two were not named, instead prosecutors provided dates of stories that seemed to match a series of Buzzfeed articles. That's confirmed now. Buzzfeed. Now when I heard this story, it raised alarm bells because back in May, we had reported on a story from Ronan Farrow that ran in the New Yorker

about missing Michael Cohen SARS that were leaked. Those are the ones that Avonadi leaked about Cohen's slush fund that he ran out of essential consulting. The story said law enforcement officers had released SARS after finding that some were missing. If you remember, this person found a Sauron Cohen that referenced two other SARS, but the two other SARS were mysteriously missing from the database. They gone walkies is what Maddo said. It's the first time I heard her say gone walkies. Interesting. That's a reporting that led us to know that AT&T Novartis and Russian emigrate Vaxelberg had all dumped

large amounts of cash into Cohen's slush fund. Huh. Yeah. Lucky for a skirt. Yeah. God. Again, a reminder of how slow the justice system works. I know. She's just now pleading guilty and she's not getting sentenced for another four months, five months. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I don't know too many more details other than what you reported, what we reported over a year ago and what I just reported now. I just was, and that's like directly from the government's website. The reporting that I just gave. So I don't know if there's much more I can

extrapolate from from that in terms of where I think her mind was really yet But I'm yeah, I'm definitely gonna I'm gonna say whistle I'm with the whistleblowers anyone that's claiming to be a whistleblower in this Political environment. I'm I'm I'm with them. Yeah, and some people have there's like people on Twitter That's saying that she's actually a Trump person and she was trying to root out deep state stuff. I don't see that, but, you know, oh, and that's oh, so she was, she was trying to prove that there was a deep state. Huh, that doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't jie, it doesn't jie with me.

It doesn't match with the reporting either, like the nature of the leaks. No, or the Buzzfeed articles, but. Right, exactly. So, I mean, if you have any proof of that, let me know. I mean, I'm open to hearing other theories, but that did come up and I did have some discussions on Twitter about that, because I called her a hero.

Yeah, I guess, yeah, maybe we don't know enough to definitively call her a hero or not, but who knows. But I haven't heard, that's the first that I've heard really of that side of the argument, I guess. Well, because my argument would be if you're trying to support Trump, why would you get SARS out to the public that damaged your Manafort people? Yeah, it's very counterintuitive. Unless she was trying to say, look, this is what it is and people

are overstating what's happening. Yeah, I don't know. But then at the time, I can't run my head around that, that theory or that side of the story. Yeah. Well, and then like the emotional appeal her attorney is trying to make definitely seems to lend itself to the idea that she was trying to hold these people accountable when the government was not. That's like exact, it seems like that's like what he said, right? What I just read that sounds like what he was saying.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, that is the story. And I'm going to actually go back and listen to that. Thanks, Jordan. That October 2018 report too that we put out, because we got it from the Buzzfeed articles. Well, as most of you know, Buzzfeed, speaking of them, sued the Department of Justice under the Freedom Information Act to get the underlying molar materials, the same molar materials that NADLER filed for petition in the courts to get last July. And this week, they got the fourth installment of the FBI's 302s, which are summaries of interviews with key witnesses. Big ups to Jason Leopold, who's heading up this project.

You can read the actual documents at Buzzfeed.com. This batch contains 302s from White House political advisers Steven Miller. Peter Avin, he's the chairman of the Board of Alpha Bank. Russia's largest commercial bank, by the way, as you know, Michael Cohen, we know who he is. Robert Forzman, vice chairman of the UBS investment bank, Dennis Clementoff of the new economic school of Moscow. That was where they wanted to give a speech and page gave a speech. We read about it in Russian roulette. Andrei Krkavik, a professor at the higher school of economics

in Russia, former deputy national security adviser, Kate. T. McFarland, political consultant Sam Patton, Anatoli, Sam Marach, Sam Marcharnoff, some Marcharnoff. He was the translator, which I need to hire him to say his name, at the infamous June 6, 2016 Trump Tower meeting. Shlomo Weber, we've talked about him. He's an economics professor at the new economic school in Russia, former Trump campaign, cheer him off. Paul Manafort, mall Panifort. Come to mall Panifort on Sunday, free balloons for the kids. Oh, no.

George popped up a list and Carter Page. So some of the key takeaways from round four, Manafort said he had his lawyer Kevin Downing speak with handy because he saw that as a conduit to Trump in the outside world. We kind of knew that from the Manatee texts. We found out that the FBI actually asked George Poppidopoulos to work with them to get more information on Miff's said. Okay.

Dennis Clementoff, you remember him as one of the guys with the new economics school in Russia that wanted Trump to come and speak and He said that when Russia learned that they're a good old useful idiot Carter Page was associated with the Trump campaign the excitement was palpable And so he was targeted And so you know Those are just some of these key things but we learned a lot from round four. You should really read them as about 176 pages but we learned a lot from round four. You should really read them as about 176 pages. But I think the most important takeaway is what we haven't yet learned because it's

been summarily blocked or redacted by Bill Barr's Justice Department. Law and crime tells us that the Department of Justice is defying the court order for BuzzFeed's FOIA to produce notes from Jared Kushner's interview. Judge Reggie Walton, the same judge that was questioning the appropriateness of Bill Barr's redactions, ordered the Department of Justice to turn over the 302s, including Kushner's. And while the Department of Justice can redact documents, no reason was given for totally excluding the Kushner files. I doubt Judge Walton will be none too happy with this, as he was already pissed with

Trump's Department of Justice for taking so long to get the documents out. And the Kush files were supposed to have been handed over in January. It's weird, because they handed over a totally redacted 31 page interview, member in dump number three. There was a 31 page interview that was totally redacted, including the person who was being interviewed. Their name was redacted. All my beans on that being the Kushner interview.

What do you think? That would be nice. I'd love to see that. They should, they should unredact it. Right. Well, that's just going to be more litigation in court than, huh? Well, and you know, Reggie Walton, like I said, he said he was prepared to go through and check on the appropriateness of the redactions. And maybe that's one that he will. I'm sure Reggie Walton knows what's under there and knows that the Kushner stuff wasn't handed over and it if is the Kushner

stuff, there's probably going to be a lot of ex-parte in camera sealed hearings with sealed memos that we won't hear about until one day it'll just come out. Yeah, yeah, I would love to see it. I don't even know what Kush is up to right now. I feel like I haven't heard a lot out of what is it, Darvanka? Just, just acting out of non-security clearance. And as you know, just doing things you shouldn't be doing. Yeah. Just walking around. I just, I, there's so many things happening.

I haven't heard anything particularly. Yeah. Just from jarvanka lately. But I would like to find out what's in, what's in that interview? My beans are. That is what it is. Yeah. My beans are on a, just more Saudi Arabia shit, probably.

That seems to be his solidified role in this Administration still yep Yeah, that probably knows a lot about that say shells meeting What a place to have a meeting I'll tell you right. I don't want to have meeting. God. I mean, I take it. We'll go to the four seasons In any case what bar has done and is doing to the Department of Justice is frightening. Let's just look at the track record starting with his possible shuttering of the Mueller investigation and his gross misrepresentation of Mueller's findings. I'm going to go through a list of stuff here. These are just the hits.

There's way more deep cuts than this, but these are the hits. And that his mischaracterization of Mueller's findings was so bad that Mueller went to paper twice and that first letter we still haven't't seen the DOJ blocked it. That trick worked so well, some people actually blame Mueller for the findings. When he wrote in the report that it was Rosenstein that set the scope, and it was Rosenstein that decided which cases Mueller had to hand off to the Department of Justice, which is now under Bill Bart. And then we have the shuttering of the Cohen case in this other district of New York.

For no apparent reason, other than it just happened to go dark, the month bar got there. It was picked up by Sivance, but he's a piece of shit. So I don't have much faith in that. I used to, and then I've read all sorts of stuff about Sivance, by the way.

And, you know, yes, he did let Ivanka and Jared off the hook in that fraud case. Turns out he let Epstein skate without being put on the sex offence, sex offender registry. There's a lot of things that he's just sort of kind of made deals for that I really disagree with. Then there's the super secret Mueller subpoena battle with the company from country A. That went dark within a month of bars arrival and we haven't heard anything since June. And then how many of the Rosenstein referred cases redacted in appendix D of the Mueller report have gone dark. We don't know, but we haven't heard

shit about anything since April. And don't forget about Andy McCabe who is still under criminal investigation, even though the grand jury refused to return an indictment in his case, and bar block to release of the documents relating to McCabe's firing. Got so bad that judge said, fuck you, release the documents or close the case. The DOJ said, all right, all right, all right, all right, all right. We'll release the documents, bro, but they still haven't and they still haven't closed the case. They're still trying to, I think, shop grand juries to find somebody who will indict him. And what we have seen in the releases, there's been like slow drip and they've been redacted, really heavily redacted by bar. And now we have a brand new criminal investigation into Komi for his handling of the Hillary case from over two years ago, which the IG cleared him on, but now I guess it's a new thing they're looking at.

That's two years old. And speaking of the Inspector General, bar disputed his own DOJ inspector general's findings that the investigation into Trump Russia was opened with proper predicate and without political bias to say nothing about the IG report that was due out around the time Barr took office regarding the Weiner laptop leaks involving Giuliani, Tonzig, and DeGeneva from the FBI, New York Field Office.

The leaks that may have forced Komi to go public with the reopening of the Hillary case case days before the election where's that i'd report and of course we have bar himself the corrupt globe trotter visiting every country that helped with the help the fby with trump the trump russian investigation trying to find anything to discredit muller's work and of course now the explosive parnas maddo interview in which parnas says the corrupt ukrainian lute sanko would provide juliani and Trump dirt on Muller and

One of Muller's top lawyers, Weissman and the Biden's if they would just fire that meddling pesky Yvonnevich who I just realized is the Thoma of this Scooby-Doo adventure But most alarming Is the possibility that bar Trump Giuliani and Hannity plotted to have Levin arrested as fall guys, setting them up with lawyers, John Dowd and Kevin Downing, that just came out, and asked them to take one for the team while blocking Parnas' documents and disallowing him to speak until a judge had to sign off to make it happen. And later in the interview, I'm going to talk with Barb McQuade, who used to work for

the Justice Department about what got us here and what we can do to put back that waz-a-wall of twist that has been swiftly and totally drained by what I think is the most dangerous man in the world bill bar. It reminds me of a tweet I wrote that Brian Williams read on air as part of an article Joyce Vance wrote for Time Magazine about public trust in the Justice Department. Let's listen to that. Joyce Vance has just written about the Department of Justice and Time magazine went up tonight. It is often said that DOJ's integrity is like a reservoir, slow to fill, but easily empty by a small leak.

The reservoir is leaking. The day after news of Epstein's apparent suicide broke a tweet from the partisan podcast Mueller She wrote, articulated the worst case, worst case, forgive me, whether you believe there are nefarious forces within the DOJ that assisted with or turned a blind eye to the Epstein death, the bigger point is no one trusts the Department of Justice. No one. We are in a dangerous place if people no longer trust that the Justice Department is doing justice. Joyce, however unlikely an outcome, the outcome you are calling for is that the Attorney General take himself out

of this case. Tell us why. So yeah, that's our Justice Department. Nice. Nice. Really nice. I was sitting there both in admiration for the way that you were delivering that information, but also like, fuck. Sure, Tara. Yeah. Yeah, as I was writing it, I was like, this is good. Oh my god, this is bad. Yeah.

I think a scariest part is not seeing a clear path to him being held accountable ever, really. Yeah. And I do talk to Barba about that, but it's it's it's murky, you know, but I mean, obviously the that we vote, but then if we would if we end up with a president who's like, we'll just put it all behind us. Oh, totally. Which I mean, I can totally see that in the country because this will divide the country. And you shouldn't go after your political opponents with the law because you have the power

to do so because that could be seen as a Beuse of power. It's such a dangerous precedent if we don't hold these people to account though. Well, that's what happened when we didn't hold Nixon to account. It's when he was pardoned. It's what happened when you know Has it has led to this and now here we are. So you're right. It's it's it's makes That's the wrong precedent. Yeah, it is hard though, because on the other hand, civilians really I do think I had something happen at a comedy show the other night that was really crazy. I asked if anyone had watched a debate, the Democratic debates, and the whole crowd who

was like a decent crowd laughing wise, just like, just fucking fucking stopped like no noise Everyone I'm so sorry for that sound you have taken your ear About that That's the sound you're going It was supposed to be a sound it wasn't like close to that. No, no, no It's supposed to be a sound like clump trap. No, no, it was supposed to be a sound of a... They dried up. Yeah, it was supposed to be a little slim shut.

Exactly, but it was a very wet sound. It was supposed to be a watertight asshole. Yes, exactly. In the old frog saying. That is exactly what it was supposed to be. Watertight asshole. But the whole clenched up all around. That's all right.

My dad is saying, is a frog's ass watertight? Like, does the bear shit in the woods type of a thing. I hope so. But anyways, they completely tightened up a lot is my point. And then I was like no one watched it, no, and no one would say anything. And up until that point, they were like a pretty participatory audience. Maybe a room was on a first date and they didn't wanna reveal their politics to the first date. I don't think so.

Okay. I'm just trying to, no, I know, sorry. I started to benefit of the doubt. I think he is. But then I was like, you know, really, I just want, because I was going into like, you know, the Bernie Warren shit and they just weren't having any of that.

And I was, as a closing thought, I guess, to that segment that wasn't going anywhere. I was like, yeah, I just want, like, everyone just really needs to stop fighting. And then everybody just erupted in a pause, just at that one line. And it's like, you know that that's Republicans, Democrats, Independents, it's like a crowd of people.

So it represents a lot of different political opinions I imagine. And that was just super, super powerful to me because like, I think I underestimate what civilians are actually feeling with all of this stuff. That when even though holding people accountable is incredibly important and still needs to happen, there is this reality that future politicians and current politicians have to juggle, which is that civilians are fucking over it. Like most civilians are not like our listeners.

Fatigue. That want to, you know, be continuously informed about everything. People that are a bubble don't always want to talk about it. No. I got invited to a friend of mine, it's like family Thanksgiving gathering back in November. And she was like, I didn't end up going, but she was like, I really love hanging out

with you and I love all our discussions, but if you were to come to my family gathering, I just, I would just need to tone it down a little bit, just maybe like, don't bring anything up. And I was like, I don't know your family, I wasn't gonna like argue about Trump but your Thanksgiving dinner. And she was like, I'm just giving you a pre-warning.

Just keep the cash. Yeah. It's like, okay. You're a little loud. Harden? You're a little loud with your opinions. Yeah. Okay. Here we're allowed. Harden. You're a little loud with your opinions. Yeah. Showed it down a bit. My hair or no. Oh my. The gay girl with the blue hair who works for the political podcast. Yeah. I might have a video. No, not me. Yeah. So people in general, over it, she was like, we should show up with like a pink pussy hat and like a fuck trump shirt I know I'm gonna peach the mother fucker shirt and like banners and a number one foam finger

That says trump sucks ass on it or something and like just like covered in head have head to toe in some sort of Democrat Kutramal. Yeah, and then and just be like hey Yeah Whenever to talk about politics Yeah, and then and just be like, hey, thanks. Yeah. But she was like, you know, the weather. I was like, whenever I talk about politics, she's like, fearful of my presence. That's a good sketch, by the way. Yeah, that was so funny. It's right there.

Sketch idea. I don't know. She's like, don't bring it up. Meanwhile, my insurance just like impede the motherfucker. Yeah. Anyway, I didn't go. So I didn't need to show it down. Oh, good.

But I would have for her sake. Yeah. Yeah, I do think it is so I didn't need to show it down. Oh, good, but I would have for her sake. Yeah. Yeah, I do think it is the reality of people right now. Yeah, just show up in that outfit and be like, how about those cubs? Right. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yes, I went for a hike the other day and the weather was nice. It's nice here.

I was at a show last night and some guy in the front row is wearing a huge Oversized first-head camouflage trump hat that he had adorned with like pins and a various I don't know organizations Or opinions and it was so hard to just like not say anything about it Because it was also ocean side so I'm just like not say anything about it because it was also ocean side. So I'm pretty outnumbered there when it comes to like Republicans, but it was, that's a little bit of a red time.

Yeah, but just talking about people showing up to social gatherings, you know, making their political opinions very well known. This guy sitting here with like a fucking conductor had of conservatism. You can even call it that conductor had of a photographer. Popper Stick even call it that. Conductor had of paper. Popper Sticker's horse head. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Oh, gosh, but white nationalist. Ha, ha, ha. All right, are you guys ready for sabotage? Hell yeah. Yes. Yes. All right, so Michael Flynn withdrew his guilty plea. And now I'm pissed because I thought we were going to sentence him on January 28th, but

the sentencing hearing for his, you know, first national security advisors now set for February 27th, more than two years after he pleaded guilty to line to the FBI. And the delay comes after Flynn asked the court to allow him to withdraw his guilty plea. He, like I said, he was supposed to be sentenced on the 28th for lying to the FBI. And he was facing zero to six months in prison. They recommended six months after, you know, the DOJ was like, well, we were recommending probation, but now we're recommending time because he failed to, he stopped being a cooperator. And it's unusual for a relatively straightforward charge to hang in the court this long, but

I guess Flynn's case has been unusual. Yeah. From the beginning, the president has tweeted to wish him good luck. And the right-wing commentators have held him up as a conspiratorial symbol of the deep state's undermining of Trump's admiration. So he withdrew his guilty play and they've now delayed his sentencing. So we're going to have to wait and see what happens, see how Judge Sullivan responds. Yeah, I don't see how there couldn't be a change in indictments because we were saying

this as soon as he started wavering. It's like that's kind of part of the deal. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like what he only has one guilty plea, one count, right? That he's played guilty too. That's for lying. Yeah, that's it. Yeah. And we know he's guilty of lobbying without registering. We know he's guilty of other stuff. Kidnapping plot? Yeah, she's his Christ. In exchange for $15 million to fly him out in the night. I don't know. Okay.

Yeah, you're getting real bold there with drawing that kilty flea with that resume. Especially with your Fox News lawyer who sucks ass. Yeah, so close to the finish line and you're just tripping like a motherfucker. I could have had no jail. But I think he's going gonna go for jail or trial. He could end up back in trial, in a trial and he's, I think he's just angling for a pardon.

Yeah, that, that checks out. So in that case, I would drag this out past the election to where there's nobody left in office that'll pardon. Oh, good call. Wouldn't that be rad? That would be very rad. Oh, so sorry, now you have to go to prison and no pardon. Bye bye.

All right, let's play the fantasy indictment league Superceeding Flynn good call I will do Galein I think she's hiding in Israel According to hearts. Yeah, that's what I guess some people have said who knows? I wouldn't that makes sense. I could see that but If they go ahead, sorry if they find out if the federal government or FBI or whatever finds out that that's true, then I think they would definitely drop an indictment.

If that's something that would be worth their time, would they do that? I don't know. They might say it's not. They might be able to get them on six months if it goes to trial for lying, but I mean, and then you have to remember bars and charge. Um, Galen though. Oh, Galein. Yeah. Yeah. I was saying if they can confirm that she's hiding overseas, do you think that they just haven't had diamond waiting for her as soon as she like

ever maybe steps foot over here? Could be. Or do they do symbolic and diamonds, even if like someone is overseas and they know that they I would think bar would want her in his grasp grasp. Yeah. To to control like they'll in like imagery like you try Green like he tried to do with Pernos. Yeah, I think he kind of wants him. Yeah with that noise It's for everything now All right, so you have a galeine. I'm gonna go with the Super seating Nader. Hmm All right, so you have Gaelin. I'm gonna go with the superseding native.

I'm gonna do a frickin plea deal for Parnas. Parnas. I don't know that, that'd be nice. I don't know the bar's gonna give that to him. He'd have to make that with the Southern District. I'll go with Giuliani. Yes. Everything's sort of hard now, because you know, you start realizing how corrupt bar is, and you want these people to get indicted, and then he's really putting a...

It's fucking damper on our fantasy and diamond lead. Yeah. Um, okay, I'm gonna do... Tom Barich. I could see that going somewhere. Yeah. Okay, I'm gonna do Tom Barich. I could see that going somewhere. Yeah. Trump inaugural. Nice.

Superseating Freeman. Freeman. That I believe. And I believe Superseating Parnas too. If we're gonna go on what bar is gonna do? And I'm gonna do Pecker. Nice. Alright that is how we play the fantasy indictment league. Stick around right after this break I'll be talking to Bard McQuade for me was returning about what's happening at the Department of Justice and how we

might be able to fix it. Hey everybody, it's AG. After a muller she wrote, it's muller she rests, hopefully. After a long day of resisting the propaganda and corruption of this current administration, sometimes I need a break from all the stress and craziness. And one of my favorite mental refreshers is a new puzzle game, app called Best Fiends. Best Fiends is engaging and fun with an interesting story and challenging puzzles, but it's a casual game so you can play as much or little as you want. And it's not timed, so there's no pressure or stress. It's just a great game. It's my go-to when I just need a break. You can collect all the best fiends, level them up, give

them new powers, discover their powers, and battle the slugs of Mount Boom. I'm on level 80, which I love, because it's the only part of my life where I'm finally, you know, succeeding. To me, Best Fiends is the perfect game to keep my mind off the orange nightmare, and it keeps me relaxed and still challenged. The cool thing is that creators are consistently adding new levels and events, so it's always fresh and fun. Best Fiends is free to download, and I love that you don't need the internet to play it, so it's great for traveling, I can do it on a play-in, I can do it on a subway, so give

it a try. Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters to Five star rated mobile puzzle game with over a hundred million downloads globally download free at the Apple App Store on Google Play That's friends without the R best fiends Joining us for the interview today. I'm so happy about this University of Michigan law professor MSNBC legal analyst and former US attorney Please welcome back Bart McQuade. Bart, thanks for coming on Mueller She wrote today. Oh, thanks, HG. Glad to be with you. So lots of stuff. The first time I went up with the MADO interview with Lev

Parnas because it was absolutely explosive and bananas. Though people caution his allegations and some on the Trump side say he's not credible. And as a former US attorney, can you explain perceived credibility issues with bad guys who flip and why they're actually more credible than a lot of people think? Yes, he really presents as a very typical co-operator. People who are associated with the defendant are often the most, not the most savory characters as you can imagine. And you know one argument that prosecutors frequently make when they call people like that as witnesses

at trial is to tell the jury, remember I didn't choose, the government didn't choose this person to be our star witness. It's the defendant who chose to associate himself with this person. But he made some really interesting allegations about the fact that everyone was in the loop, who was President Trump, who was directing the activity, even William Barr was involved, and like Pence.

I would think that what I would do as a prosecutor is sit him down for probably three or four days and go through that story in detail. I mean, ideally the playbook is, tell me in your own words everything you know that happened about this topic and get them to just talk and talk and talk. And then go back over it in painstaking detail. All right, you say that President Trump was involved. Have you spoken yourself directly to President Trump?

How do you know President Trump was involved? Who told you what records do you have? Who else was President when this occurred? And you go over every single assertion he has in that way. One of the goals is to try to corroborate what he has to say. So if you were to testify, you can back him up with documents so that even people are not inclined to believe him when they see these documents, it bolsters his credibility. The other thing that allows you to do is maybe find other witnesses who can either support his claim and you can put them all on and hear them all own the same story,

in which case they sort of authenticate each other, or one of the things you could even do is if you find better witnesses, then you can push him out altogether using for lead purposes to identify these other witnesses. Maybe he will tell you other people who are present, who are more credible, who can tell you the same information without having to rely on him as a witness. So I think the big thing he does is he really demonstrates that there is far more out there in terms of the facts than we already know,

and really makes the case for why witnesses are so important in this trial. Yeah, I think that's definitely one of the big takeaways from this that I'm sure Democrats will hammer on in in the Senate trial for impeachment. And this whole thing is kind of reminding me of of Rick Gates when when the Mueller team was prosecuting Maniford and they brought Rick Gates in as their witness and It did they did exactly what you did they went through this painstaking investigation corroborating everything that Rick Gates had said and I'm assuming they're doing that with the inaugural as well And I think because I think he's he's cooperating on that, but that's just speculation, but he wasn't really believed that the jury Didn't really like him very much, but they you know even that one

Trump supporter juror was like look you got to go by the documents and I think that Rick Gates led Prosecutors to a lot of different things and I that's kind of how I'm seeing this I mean, you know, maybe Rick Gates has a nicer suit, but that's kind of how I'm seeing this No, you're right. I think they're very similar. I want to have an effort trial in Virginia. And I can see why the jury found Rick gave very unlikable. He admitted too much of his own misconduct. He was kind of argumentative with the defense attorney and cross examination. He did not come across as a likable character. But you know, keep in mind, he was Paul Manafort's best bud. So, in many ways, somebody like that can kind of

even taint the defendant. But I think that oftentimes when you've got someone who himself is viewed with some skepticism, one of the things you can have them do is by supporting what they have to say with documents. It's really the documents that tell the story, but the cooperator can be helpful to sort of serve as a narrator. It's kind of difficult to make sense of documents sometimes without someone there to say, this is what this document was, and then he sent it to me, and then I did this with it, and it kind of ties those things together, and the story actually comes out through the documents, but that person that cooperating witness is able to help give you a little bit of context and explain what these were. For example, we've seen some documents that have been produced by Lev Parnas, his own

handwritten notes, which may or may not be admissible in the evidence. But you can talk about the timing of these things. You can explain what was going on. Text messages are another great example where someone can provide context for something that might be difficult to discern Nisolation. Yeah, and I also think something else that was helping out in that man-of-work case was just the way in which the Mueller team was and was Ischewing its indictments. They kind of put out these talking indictments to to sort of illustrate a story So I think I think that that helped As well and that's kind of what these corroborating

witnesses do. Now, regarding what Parnas said about bar on the Department of Justice, because you used to work at the Department of Justice, he said he has a significant fear of the Department of Justice and Bill Barr. And that's why he's telling his story on TV, which most indicted individuals generally don't do or at least advised against doing. And he said he believes he's safer telling his story than leaving his fate in the hands of our justice department and said he was more scared of Bill Barr than he is of quote, these criminals unquote.

And now there's theories floating around out there that Barr had him and Igor arrested and gave a waiver for doubt to be a lawyer so that they could control the messaging, keep him quiet or make them the fall guy. I don't know. There's a lot of theories going around and you know, kind of supported by the fact that Giuliani has yet to be indicted by the Southern District, the Department of Justice tried

to keep love, harnesses, documents from getting out. And now that he's willing to come forward, do you think it's even a possibility that it's within the purview of our Department of Justice to be part of this cover-up as the way that Parnas is describing it. I hope not, and I have not seen anything yet to make me think that it is, although I will say that William Barr's conduct has, I think, created a credibility gap for him. The way he swept in and spun the Mueller report really cost him a lot of credibility in my view. And so I think that it leaves you susceptible to these kinds of allegations and conspiracy theories

when someone proceeds you to be not an honest broker. And he does seem to have, I don't know if it is, partisan viewpoints, but at least viewpoints of a very strong executive branch that causes him to make curious decisions. You know, there is this allegation that when the whistleblower complaint first came in the door, he took a quick look at it and summarily dismissed it as not something that was worthy of further investigation. That too, I think, creates concern about whether he is serving as an honest broker

or is, instead, acting in the best interest of President Trump. But I would like to think that even if he were not seeing the world in the same way, maybe other fair-minded, even-handed people would, the folks in the Southern District of New York, I think today have shown themselves to the honest brokers. They are charges of, Jeffrey Epstein, for example, struck me as demonstrating independence. They're charges of Michael Cohen and even describing President Trump as individual one, and then indictment.

I thought demonstrated some independence. And so I would hope that if they were being told to stand down for improper reasons, we would see resignations and public statements from them about an improper purpose. So I'm not ready to go there just yet, but it's a sad day when we're even raising these questions about the trustworthiness of the Attorney General with the Department of Justice. And I think William Barr has brought that on itself. Yeah, and that's the huge problem. It's interesting that you bring up the whistleblower complaint and how he handled the Mueller report, because I had just, was about to list off some of the things that have kind of been destructive

to his credibility, or at least the credibility of the department, and that's not just Parnas, we have the things that you mentioned, we have the McCabe investigation, we have that the Cohen, the case was shut down and was picked up eventually by the Manhattan District Attorney. His dispute of his own inspector general findings surrounding the Trump Russian investigation. He's now investigating Komi. This is news out from the New York Times for years old issue even the after the IG is cleared Komi.

So with all of these things and you're right whether or not So with all of these things and you're right, whether or not they're stand up or part of the cover up, that trust is diminishing. And so how can we rebuild that loss of trust? Because my guess is it's a lot hard to get back than it was to lose in the first place. Yeah, I think that's right. I think in the next administration there has to be a lot of work done to regain trust and probably some changes if not in laws at least in norms. We saw this after the Nixon presidency, a lot of laws passed and other things done to try to restore trust in the Department of Justice.

I think the Attorney General or the next administration will have to make that a very high priority. One of the ways you can do that is through transparency and trying to share with the public things that are going on, but a hard part of it is there is much that must buy its nature be kept secret. Investigations until they're ready, investigations that ultimately result in no charges typically are not shared with the public, and so there has to be a fair amount of trust there on those, but I think one way you can get to that is by having maximum transparency, permitting oversight,

permitting inspector general reports, permitting congressional oversight. And we see the Trump administration such a stone wall of oversight that I think it creates its own problems of distrust in the department when they won't even let Congress in to see what's going on. We have on national security matters. We have the Kangivate in Congress who are supposed to be permitted to see even classified material as a method of oversight that came along as post mix and post water gate measures. And so I think a full and robust review by Congress would also be beneficial to the health of the Department of Justice.

Yeah, and that is a good point, especially with working with Congress. And speaking of future attorneys general, do you have a dream, a U.S. attorney general that you are thinking of in November, saying that the, you know, assuming the Democrat wins the presidency? Oh, there are a lot of great lawyers out there, you know, Sally Yates comes to Murray as someone who was wonderful and less administration served as the deputy attorney general,

certainly highly qualified to do that job. But there were also many other people who served in government who would be excellent attorneys general. I guess I would just want someone who has the experience and a commitment to the rule of law and not to the president who appoints him or her, I think is the most important thing. You know, when I became U.S. Attorney, all of the U.S. attorneys had an opportunity to meet

with President Obama at the White House as a group. And one of the things he said to us was, remember that even though I appointed you, you do not serve me, you serve the people of the Constitution. And if ever you perceive a conflict in those two interests, remember where your loyalty's lie. I think we need an attorney general who shares that vision of what an attorney general is supposed to be. Instead in President Trump, it's famously stated, I want to avoid cone, I want a attorney general who will protect me. And I think he has found that in William Barr. I think we need to get back to the Obama model of an attorney general who represents

the people in that the president. Yeah. The same with director of FBI, director of CIA, director of national intelligence, the whole intelligence community. I think they all, they're all intertwined and they're all interlinked. So I think, and I think that is important. And we also have to be careful not to appoint an attorney general that's extremely divisive either, you know. I'm sitting over here like, I wouldn't it be great if Andy McCabe were the new director of the FBI, but I don't know that that would be the best idea in the world. Yeah, I think that's right. I think that we need to be mindful that it isn't about, you

know, whose tribe is in power. We really need an attorney general and a president who is prepared to serve all of the people of this country. And that's a big, bending job that needs to be done as well. And this, this president has made as part of his strategy to divide people, because he perceives that it is personal political interests, but it's certainly not in the best interest of the country. So I think uniting the country has got to be an important part of the next president and the next administration, including the Attorney General. Yeah, and it would definitely be hard to get that trust back that we were talking about

if you nominate somebody that you're pretty sure at least 40% of the country doesn't like rightfully or not, rightfully or not. Right. All right. Well, thank you so much. Your insights are always extremely helpful and I appreciate you coming, taking time to talk to us today. I really, really appreciate it.

And you're welcome. I always enjoy listening to my sheet. Thanks. Everybody MSNBC contributor. You, Mish, law professor. Oh, your credentials go on forever in former US attorney, Barb McQuade. Thanks again. We'll talk to you vote. Thanks, everybody. MSNBC contributor. You, Mish, law professor. Oh, your credentials go on forever in former US attorney, Barbara Quaid. Thanks again. We'll talk to you soon.

Thanks, everybody. All right, everybody. That's our show. Thank you so much for listening. And we're going to get video uplinks in here soon. Not uplinks, but the video camera and we'll put out video. I don't want to get too technical because I don't understand tech. But anyway, you can get that and see it if you become a patron. How about that? Sounds nice. And a Q&A episode, which will be up before the end of the month.

Yep. And lots of good questions. You'll get our sister, podcast, ad free, and the night before it comes out to the public. If you are on the West Coast. Well, you get it the night before, but, oh yeah, totally. It'll just be light if, you know, it'll be like midnight. But I'm here in New York, totally.

And a lot of people say that's, they love that because they listen to it before bed. It's nice. Yeah, so they get it at the outside. And the out of free is cool too. Mm-hmm. Baby geniuses for adults. I don't think it's that a thing

where you like play music for your kid or whatever, or you play smart shit for them when they're falling asleep? Although I wouldn't recommend putting a muller sheet on headphones and putting it on your pregnant belly. I wouldn't recommend that. It's a funny kid. It's a fun baby.

It's just bored with an immense disdain for a political system when it comes out of your soul. And it comes. Or the opposite of your soul. And it comes. Ow. Or the opposite of that noise. All right. Anyway. Thank you so much. Any final thoughts?

No final thoughts to me. I watched a movie that I really liked. You all should watch American animals. It's a documentary about some like privileged white kids that try to pull off some heist. And it's like just an incredibly well-made documentary. Like I've never seen a documentary made like that. What's the gist of the heist? They there is a really expensive book of artwork. Okay. And other books that they try to steal. Yeah.

But it's very good. I just watched it and it's like fuck. That's like one of the coolest made movies I've ever seen. I'm reading JVN's new book that I just watched it and it's like, fuck. That's like one of the coolest made movies I've ever seen. I'm reading JVN's new book that I got for Christmas. That's slightly lighter content for my brain. Yeah, that sounds really nice. It's so wonderful. Yeah, reading is memoir, isn't it? Love him so much.

Yeah, he's that guy. You want to come back, JVN. I would love to meet you. Yeah, I'm back on my wishy-wren. All right, that's it, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

Oh, oh. And scene. I'm seriously, take care of yourselves. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And scene. Seriously, take care of yourselves. Take care of each other. I've been AG. I'm a Jordan Coburn. I've been a man to reader. And this is Mollershi Road. Mollershi Road is executive produced and directed by AG and Jordan Coburn with engineering and editing by MackenzieG. and Jordan Coburn with engineering and editing by Mackenzie Mazzal and Starburn's industries. Our marketing manager, production and social media direction is by Amanda Reader, fact-checking

a research by A.G., Jordan Coburn, and Amanda Reader, and our knowledgeable listeners. Our web design and branding are by Joao Reader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is mullershyrope.com. Season 4 of How We Win Is Here. For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave.

But the Magga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the House, thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So the official podcast of the persistence is back with season four. There's so much more

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