Jack - Meet The Flynn-Stones (feat. Elie Honig)

Episode Date: May 20, 2019

S3E20 - Joining us this week is Elie Honig! Plus, we cover bombshell information about Michael Flynn, the onslaught of anti-choice laws, the DoJ joining Trump in stonewalling congressional oversight, news about Rick Gates, and more! Enjoy! 

They might be giants that have been on the road for too long, too long, and they might be giants aren't even sorry, not even sorry. And audiences like the shows too much, too much. And now they might be giants that are playing their breakthrough album, all of it, and they still have time for other songs. They're fooling around. Who can stop? They might be giants, and their liberal rocket gender.

Who? No one. This had to stay forward forward somebody else's money. Thanks to Rothy's for supporting Mueller She wrote, have you heard about this company making stylist shoes for women and girls out of recycled plastic water bottles? Oh, and they're insanely comfortable and machine washable.

Go get yourself a pair today with free shipping at rothy's.com and use the promo code A.G. And thanks to Noom for supporting Mueller She wrote. Getting in shape isn't just about losing weight. It's about learning healthier habits and feeling better about yourself. Noom helps us learn to develop a new relationship with food. Sign up for your trial today at Noomnoom.com slash AG. And thanks to Grove for supporting Muller She Wrote. Grove makes healthier home products accessible and affordable.

Over half a million families shop Grove.co for non-toxic dish soap, plant-based skin care, and tree-free bath tissue. For a limited time, our listeners get a 3-piece cleaning set for Mrs. Meyer Spring Sense, a free 60-day VIP membership, and a surprise bonus gift. Just for signing up and placing an order of $20 or more. Go to grove.co.net.com slash AG for info. This is Andrew McCabe and you're listening to Mueller She Wrote. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I think that's obviously what our position is.

I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time, a true in that campaign. And I didn't have, not have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for having nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red hairing. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist.

Hello and welcome to Mollarshi Road. I'm your host, A.G. and with me as always, are Julie Sajansson. Hello. And Jordan Coburn. Hello. First, a big thank you to everyone who made the webbies this past weekend. Possible. Whether you vote it for us or just listened to us or were there with us, we hope to see you again next year with our forthcoming daily news podcast, The Daily Beans, coming soon to this feed. Also coming soon, I think May 23rd. So now it's going to have to be. We'll be the first episode of our page-by-page review of the Mueller report. So look for that. Patrons get that early

and out free. But we're releasing it to the public starting on May 23rd. And seriously, we go through it line by line. We give you context. We do our whole curatorial journalism bit. We tell you who we think's been in the redacted parts. Yeah, it's like audio cliff notes, but funnier. Yes. Yeah, it's actually actually probably just takes a lotnier. Yes. Yeah. It's actually, actually, it probably just takes a lot longer than just reading it, but, you know, we want to, we want to go really deep into it because I hear only 3% of Americans have read it. So, y'all need to hear it. So, we're going to do that for you and make it entertaining, hopefully. June 14th will be in Minneapolis at the Parkway Theater. Tickets are still available at mullershirope.com. We would love to see you there.

There's also a VIP meet and greet, I believe, for that event. Those are my favorite things. Yeah, best time ever. And then I think we might try to set up some sort of a side deal on Saturday, the 15th with patrons if you want to come out and meet and hang out with us or maybe have dinner

or something. We'll figure it out. That'd be so fun. If you're a patron in your own restaurant or a meeting space in Minneapolis, hit us up at helloatmullershearout.com. We'll see what we can set up. That'd be cool.

This was a blistering week in the news with some bombshell information about Michael Flynn and his case, along with the onslaught of anti-choice laws sweeping across Republican controlled states, not to mention the Department of Justice joining Trump in Stonewall and Congressional oversight. There's also news about Rick Gates, the Mazaar's hearing on Trump's tax returns, Don Jr.'s testimony to the Senate Intelligence Committee. The possible reasons Mueller's testimony could be delayed. Steve, defying a subpoena, that's who I call a manuchin because he prefers Stephen, so I'm just gonna calm Steve and

Hacked counties in Florida, but sure. Yeah, the Mueller Probes over and there's nothing else to report. Yeah, all done Yeah, we're all finished. Yeah, you still just the special council But before we get into all the facts, how was your week you guys? It's been great actually. Yeah, despite the news Yeah, I was gonna say objectively in my life good news not so much and that's been affected my mental state Dude, there's a full moon tonight, too. I wonder if that's gonna do anything to us Yeah, maybe I had a dream last night that I was trying to hide from an active shooter And I've actually talked to four other people on Twitter today who had the same dream last night Uh-oh, I hope that you are not I don't think it's pressure I think it might be a full moon thing or maybe we all get

on weird dreams. That's really, yeah, I hear this is just, you know, astrology beans, but I hear that it's supposed to in heighten your senses. So if you're feeling anxious about something, maybe that's just, you know, rising to your, your conscious level. Yeah. So to school shootings that were just shootings in general have been happening a lot. Yeah, this I was at a friends wedding, and I was trying to escape in the snow. And I think it was the snow because my window was open and I was cold.

There were people after me with guns and I can't because I don't know why. It could be metaphorical but it also could be literal. I think either way you could be under stress. And this friend got married like 19 years ago so I don't even understand. Wow. That was about... You might need a nice little relaxation day. Yes.

I'll try to find one of those in the coming years. Get yourself some bath salts. Oh, yeah. Yeah, not those bath salts. No. The opposite of a white. Like the Calgon type. I don't know if you're a nice smoke, the bad bath salts.

Hey, you can smoke anything. If you're brave enough, that's true. That's true. Get it hot enough, then she will smoke. Thanks, Chili's up for that. Sorry it hot enough, then she will smell thanks. Chili is up for that. Sorry. But yeah, it was a tough thing. That bravery is a metric and that like stupidity.

Yeah, I'm so sorry. Definitely stupidity. Well, there's no bravery without fear. Stupidity, I think kind of, you know, I've noticed, you know, can weave it in there a little bit. Those dudes with no fear shirts tend to be less smart. I just saw a sticker, like a bumper sticker that said, no airbags will die like men.

Oh, that prairie, is that prairie, we have no. I don't know, just a joke. I was hoping so too. Yes. Because that's pretty funny, if that's just a joke. Hilarious. Right? Yeah.

Depends on who's in there. Right. I'm hoping it's like an astrophysics professor. Yeah. Do they also have a big like a science smart sticker on the back or do they have a do they have another sticker that says like I believe in tit for tat. That's a good question. You know, then we know. I'll follow up. I was distracted by the first sticker. Yeah. That's enough.

Why even have auto insurance at that point? If you that's your purpose, they might not. Their premiums are probably like a thousand million dollars. Yeah. I love it. That's how you think about it. I know. Very responsible of you. I thought when I was young, I wanted to open up a skateland, but with a bar, but now that I'm older, I'm like, that's an insurance nightmare.

That's so funny, though. You start thinking about that insurance. Gross. Liability is the death of life. A fun. I'm so happy. You're like, Who am I anyway? What happened to the...

Well, but my insurance premiums are low, so I guess there's a benefit. Alright guys, before we get into the facts, we have my favorite segment. It's time for corrections. It's time to stay. It's time for me to say I'm sorry. Oh, Father Jeff the jack the fuck up Okay, this week in corrections the origins of MS 13 are Salvadoran not Honduran the most are born here in the United States They just have Salvadoran

Heritage, and that's it guys That's our main correction this week. We get an a plus pretty much. I was gonna see that's a good thing Right? Yeah, there was one more correction about how we see color and how I said that if we don't see colors as vividly when it's dark because of the lack of reflective light, someone pointed out it has to do with the structure of the eye and how our cones of the famous couple rods and cones

need more light to function. And they're the ones who distinguish color. So we weren't exactly wrong as much as we didn't go into detail about why the absence of color. Right, that's a different podcast there. We're gonna use a different podcast territory here in ability to see color. Right, science, faction, you should do this.

Yeah, it also sounds metaphorical in a sense. Oh, I don't see color. I hate when people say that. I know, I know, it's like really? You're fucking stupid. Right, I agree with you. My cones are all fucked up. That's actually a good excuse.

My boyfriend ever wants to say that about being colored why not take it Yeah, the only reason you shouldn't see colors because you cones are fucked. Yeah, nice. I'm gonna ask next time So we're all your cones right Barbara It's always Nancy or Barbara definitely pat A friend of mine asked on Facebook this week speaking of things being figurative and literal, said, hey, I need to borrow a pair of crutches for a sketch I'm doing.

Mm-hmm. Interesting. And I was like, when literal meets figurative. Yeah. Shout out Dave Collins. I love him. I know, he's so fucking great. He's his best.

Anyway, we didn't, there was another thing about Pra's, Michelle, being short for Procarserl. But we didn't say it was short for something else. We just didn't, oh, there was another thing about Praz, Michelle, being short for Procosral, but we didn't say it was short for something else. We just didn't guess. So. Just like another little additional bit. And also someone wrote in to tell us we were right about John Roberts being the Chief Justice

of Scotus, so that's just pat on the back. But not too many corrections this week. I feel like we should make some up. Like when I said Trump was acting like a nine year old when he tweeted no do-overs, maybe it's more like a seven year old behavior. Oh, I like that. Yeah, yeah, definitely. More nuance.

Yeah, I feel like a nine year old might have a better comeback. Yeah, we should start rumors. Okay. Uh, and you get, yeah, that's, I'm just making up questions. Yeah, that's the best that I think we can come up with right now. We'll circle back later. All right. Yeah. If you have any fake corrections, send them to helloatmullershearote.com or real ones.

Because like I said, we are three comics. I'm not a lawyer, none of us are. And so any corrections, we want to make sure to get the set the record straight. We're not colorologists. Yeah, my cones are fine. So send those to helloatmolishirout.com. And with corrections out of the way, let's get to the more news with just the facts.

All right, guys, all this week, people with uteruses have been under attack by the Republicans in an all-out effort to ban abortion and overturn Roe v Wade. And Jordan's going to cover that news in the hot notes. And the reason I said it that way is because somebody pointed out to me today and I think that this is really important, it's not just women who have uterus have a uterus some men or just People there are people who have you have a uterus who don't identify as a woman So instead of saying you know attack on women. This is just attack on people Wow, so I wanted to put that out there and say hey, thanks for pointing that out

I also tweeted it and Facebooked it because I think it's important that people remember that a gentle reminder though not like a you asshole Strong your cones you can't see yeah, but I do think that that's an important distinction very important. Yeah But on Tuesday May 14th and this is probably gonna be the longest A block This is like I feel like a matter like I should start in World War two Yes, and somehow and connected End up here. Load all of our ads in the last five minutes. Right.

Totally. But on Tuesday, May 14, Trump's lawyers and counsel for the House Oversight Committee duked it out in front of Judge Amit Mehta over Trump's lawsuit against Congress. He sued Elijah Cummings and the House Oversight Committee to prevent them from getting Trump's tax and financial documents from the tax firm, Mazaars. We've been talking about this for a while. If you remember Mazaars was all set to hand the

stuff over, but asked for a friendly subpoena, which Cummings obliged a very friendly like, mostly just covering their ass, subpoena, if someone was asking me for potentially incriminating shittigons to president, I'd probably say, give me a subpoena so that I can say I was subpoena. Yeah, this whole court case is a testament to that being a good decision. Exactly.

Indeed. We then learned that Trump and his businesses sued Cummings in the Oversight Committee to block the document request, citing that there was no legislative purpose for the subpoena. We then reported that Judge Mata had put out an order stating that basically he wasn't going to fuck around with multiple hearings in a trial and he consolidated the hearings

in the trial under Rule 65a2 if I'm remembering that correctly, to take place in one day, in one hearing, which we took to mean this shit is too easy, so don't waste our time with a long drawn out process. And that was important for more than just the case seeming to lean in Congress's favor, but this could set precedent for the speed at which similar cases are considered in the future, and according to law fair, what substantive legal grounds they're based on. So that is an important thing that I didn't note the last time we spoke about this. The substantive issue in this case is whether Congress can lawfully obtain financial information about a sitting president from a third party like Mazar's as part of an investigation.

As we know, this was all kicked off when Cohen testified that Trump inflated his assets to illegally obtain loans and deflated his net worth to defraud insurance companies and taxpayers. Of course, we already knew this, but Congress didn't move forward until they had that testimony corroborating these charges from Cohen. And I thought for sure that one of the legal arguments from the Congressional lawyer Douglas Letter in this hearing would be that if Congress were simply trying to get these records for political purposes, they'd have issued this friendly subpoena back in January, exactly, when they gained control of

the House, waiting until Cohen's testimony to attain the records to corroborate his allegations indicates that the investigation is based on substantive legislative concerns and not just political whim. And that was Trump's Council's William Consovoys assertion, that's his name Consovoys, that there is no conceivable constitutional basis on which the documents could be provided because there is no valid legislative purpose for which the information could be needed. That's their whole argument, and this is their argument in a lot of these cases. I'm noticing that, yeah. And there's even a letter that Pat Sipaloni wrote

to Nadler this week, that's in there too, I'll go over that a little bit later in the show. But even though Judge Mata states that the legal record was fully developed and there's no need for further hearings, briefings, or other considerations, he'd leave the record open until May 18th. That's today, as of this recording, to allow either side to provide any additional evidence they want considered. Concevoi, as if he knew what was coming, told the judge, he would appeal a decision against him and asked the judge to stay the Mazar's subpoena to allow for the appeal. So he's like, hey, when you rule against my stupid ass, I just want to let you know I'm going to file an appeal. The hearing, I think that's probably common though. Yeah,

it'd be an interesting move to make it. We're going to appeal this. Yeah. The hearings opened with Judge Mata indicating that he would not be ruling from the bench that day, which is what we were kind of hoping for. We thought he'd just rule. He'd be like, all right, you go, you go. All right, here's what I think. But he said that no judge would make such a hasty decision for such a serious case. But on the flip side, he said it's important we expedite the case because it's part of

a congressional investigation citing previous similar cases as precedent. I think he threw two or three cases out there. Nice. Case law law like they do. Constavoie went first and argued that the subpoenas invalid and unenforceable because the committee was trying to engage in a law enforcement action, not a legitimate legislative purpose, and that's not Congress's job. So there. Oh, that's his fight. Does anything say that you can't do that? He'll get into this. No.

In fact, they came up with some pretty funny examples of when it would be inappropriate. But anyway, Cummings outlined his justifications for the subpoena in his April 12th memo to the members of the Oversight Committee and the judge asked Concevoid to address each one separately. Then he's like, all right, go, go, go out on one by one. The reasons for the subpoena were to find out if Trump reported his finances accurately to the office of government ethics, to see if Trump is violating the O'Malliamont's clause in the Constitution, and to find out if Trump has any financial conflicts of interest, mostly in response to Cohen's testimony about Trump's false representation of his financial information. So Conzovoi basically argued that there could be no legislative purpose in determining if

Trump reported his finances accurately to the Office of Government ethics. The judge asked him if he's saying there has to be a bill on the table, like legislation on the table in order for them to request such information, then asks if Congress isn't supposed to investigate a president, even if he's engaging in corruption. Like, are you not supposed to? Like, even if he's corrupt? When do you do it then? Also, I'd love to hear his opinion.

I'm being gossy. Yeah. Don't. And then, Constable, he says, yeah, no, you can't. And the judge is like, so we and the courts are supposed to imagine a potential future legislation for them to get these documents. That's dumb as fuck, dude. Yeah.

You need Ms. Clio in in there i'm paraphrasing uh... then made a ask const avoid about the emoluments clause and this is some shit right here uh... the emoluments clause basically says that you can't profit personally financially through the office of the presidency right and coming to specifically worried about the trump hotel uh... in downtown dc and how he sold entire floors to like the Saudis that were lobbying for him and all kinds of other foreign dignitaries and diplomats spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in that hotel and wouldn't that be a conflict of interest? Well, Consumoi actually argued that the president's personal financial affairs are beyond the

scope of the emoluments clause and that emoluments is a legal thing and not a legislative thing and therefore beyond the arm of congressional oversight the judge was like bro Congress is actually the only body that can approve of monuments under the Constitution And how are you supposed to determine if someone's personally financially benefiting from something if their personal financial affairs are Beyond the scope of the monument cause What a terrible argument not to me and I'm not even a fucking lawyer. I'm like, dude, that's the best you could come up with. Not to mention, dude, under your bullshit way

of thinking, white water and watergate would not have been allowed to have been investigated by Congress. Constivaly did not respond to that. But then instead, Michael Cohen's testimony didn't mention the monuments. That's some legal what aboutism right there. Yeah, I'm definitely.

This went on for a while with Concevoy making the same idiot argument and made a coming back with Kaisla on citing precedent like a boss. Then the House Council gets up there, Douglas Letter. He basically says the Congress doesn't need a reason fuck you. But there are a bunch and they're outlined clearly in Cummings memo and that Trump is arguing that Congress is a nuisance who shouldn't provide oversight, but the Constitution is clear. Then came my favorite part, and this is what you were talking about, Jordan.

The judge asked a letter to tell him what might be outside congressional oversight. Like, what can't you investigate? Like how is this court supposed to determine if what Congress wants jives with the Constitution? Right. And the letter said, well, a few things might be outside the scope here, like Terry Shivo's feeding tube equipment when they asked for that, or a sample of the president's blood maybe, or if I were asking for his childhood diary. And then says, good thing we're not doing anything like that.

Let her said that, not the judge. Finally the judge asked let her why Congress needs to know about this shit, like why they want to know what the president did before he was president. And let her says, Congress must determine if he's beholden to any foreign interests. For example, if Russia knew he had committed bank fraud and obtained bank loans illegally, they could blackmail him with that. That's just a very vague example that I'm not basing on anything at all. Don't you want alone? Totally random. So put some beans on judge made of making a call on this case this week. I think he'll judge this week. Rule, not judge, joke rule. Then we can assume Trump will appeal, which

would put the case probably on track for scotus. My hope is that the quickness with which this case was litigated will set an example for other similar cases. Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I was going to say a big sigh was needed after all that. We live in such an interesting time too, where it's like, I mean, obviously, in many ways, interesting, horrifying, take your pick. But it's like blackmail, potentially being blackmailable is a legitimate reason to investigate somebody, but what's so fucked up is that if it came out the information that was being held against him, his base wouldn't even care.

True. Nope. Good thing they're not in charge of Congress, though. That would be a better legal argument. That would be, instead of this whole, there's no legislative purpose that the no one cares and the emoluments doesn't shouldn't have to do with personal finance. That would be a better legal argument to say, hey, look, he could shoot somebody in the middle of Fifth Avenue and no one cares.

He's unblackmailable. Yeah. That's a good point. He really is. If his base was the jury, yeah, he'd, that would be my defense. Right. Right. I'd be like, hey, no, you can't blackmail.

You think that no one knows that he fucking had prostitutes, peon a bed or that he, and you really think that they're going to be able to hold that over his head. He doesn't fucking care. He paid off, you know, playboy bunnies. He, to his RNC finance deputy chair got to spent 1.6 million on an abortion. Like, like, like, Fickfomel. Trump won't let them see that. He is unblackmailable. He should be, I guess, by all these standards. I don't want to give anybody ideas.

Yeah, he still has pride a little bit. But that would be my legal decision. Yeah, seriously. Well, yeah, because I mean, it's like the basis of the investigation almost becomes a moot point effectively. No one cares. Yeah. Yeah. And of course, we care, and listeners, but you mean like the people that, yeah, supporting him, they don't care at all. And they probably never will. So I'm just hoping that enough people outside of them will care. But I wonder how that playing court though. Yeah. Better argument than personal finances have nothing to do with personal finances. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Because argument than personal finances have nothing to do with personal finances. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, because everything, there's so many things that have

already come out that Russia probably knew before it came out to the media. Yeah. And it doesn't matter. Yeah, I just came out. So I'm curious. Putin sitting alone like, well shit, everyone knows about the porn star panel. Yeah, yeah. Can't hold that over his head. It would have to be something so horrifyingly bad, something that would be criminal, like across the board criminal in which case law enforcement would just get him on those grounds. Yeah, he did.

If it's within a statute of limitations. They would have buried that evidence. But like even his 12 counts of obstruction of justice are public now. And so you can't even hold that over his head. Yeah, let's just hope he forgot about one of the crimes. Well, no, Trump, like he forgot to hide the evidence. I should have been once again.

If the ground by the pussy tape didn't do anything, the p-tapes not going to do anything. Right, right. Let's say that she's evidence out there somewhere because I'm sure Trump has someone clean up his stuff. It's not Cohen now. Putin goes all out of his way to get that p-tap and then finds out about the pussy tape And I was like, Caramba! Oh wow, there's two different taste probably. Yeah, the pussy and the p-tap For some reason, he says Caramba to me. That's a strength to think of the origins. I was like, what is that missing? Oh, it's an eye.

Hi, Caramba. Yes. Also this week guys Rick Gates sentencing has been pushed back yet again And now it's all kind of making sense because since we got the molar report We've noticed that Gates plays a huge role in the stone case and the Greg the Gregory Gregory case Greg Craig Yeah, he's gonna be a witness in those trials He didn't do much for the Manafort trial because he's such a piece of shit But his testimony is important to these cases because it can triangulate the documentary and other witness testimony, right? Also Gates is a witness in the Greg Craig trial as I mentioned one of our Democrat criminals that work closely with Manifort.

In the past though Gates is sentencing delays were always for ongoing issues and remember we'd always be like, ah, they're still open and ongoing issues. Well now we know what they are and he's involved in the stone case in the Greg Craig. But since, and that's we've known since the public release of this, you know, the redacted Mueller report, we can now say what those are. Stone has pleaded not guilty in a trial that begins November 5th on charges of lying to Congress and witness tempering. Greg Craig has pleaded not guilty and faces trial August 12th on charges of lying to the Justice Department about registering as foreign agent.

So we all knew that. Yeah. We just didn't know those were the cases that Gates sentence was kept being delayed for. So interesting. Florida apparently just learned it was hacked during the 2016 election. We knew, and Jelisa has all that later in hotness.

Oh yeah. It was by George Bush back again. Oh yeah, yeah, they're a little late to the story. It was Matt Gates. It was Matt Gates. The House Intelligence Committee is now investigating obstruction of justice claims against four Trump lawyers.

And a letter from the House Intelligence chairman, Schiff, that committee is investigating whether Trump's lawyer, J. Seculow, Jr.'s lawyer, Fudr Foss, Trump or a lawyer, Alan Garton, and Javanka's lawyer, Abbey Lowell, helped obstruct the panel's inquiry into Russian election interference by shaping false testimony. These inquiries stem from Cohen's testimony that these four lawyers helped edit his false testimony about the timeline for Trump Tower Moscow and how they dangled pardons to ensure Cohen's loyalty. This letter was written by Schiff on May 3rd and obtained by the New York Times this week.

So far, the lawyers have ignored the request, the four lawyers, but Schiff says he's prepared to issue a subpoena to compel their cooperation. Heard it. Their argument, of course, is that the requester's no legislative purpose. Heard it. And that Cohen is unreliable. Also, heard it. Unfortunately, the committee would have little recourse, whether they got the information or not. If they don't, the lawyers are likely refused to comply with the subpoena. If they did, any criminal referral would be made to bars justice department anyway. The only course of action here beyond the election is an impeachment inquiry. Which we need to do for sure. Yeah. This is, okay, so legislation technically is defined as,

I don't know what it's technically defined as. I mean, my inclination is to say some form of like delegating who gets what where when how, because that's just generally what politics is, but I'm wondering if like, impeachment could be considered legislation if they could argue that. Well, no, because you wouldn't have to argue that anymore because if you open an impeachment inquiry then the house becomes a grand jury. And so now it's an investigative branch. They get to get whatever information. Yeah. I guess I'm wondering if in these court battles when they're trying to say it doesn't serve a legislative purpose, they could get out

of it by saying something like that. What they did in the in the in the Steve IRS, Sapina for that, as they said, the legislative purpose here for the House, Wayne's ways and means committee is to determine if the audits done on presidential and vice presidential So, what I'm saying is that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that,

I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that,

I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, I'm not saying that, But yeah, that judge was like, do you expect there to be a bill on the table before they can even bring this shit up? Or you want me to guess what it could be?

And the art and Doug Letter is like, I don't even have to fucking tell you you don't need a reason. We're the Congress. Yeah, I like Letter. I do too. Yeah. I do wish that they could all just be like There's no legislation involved. We're deciding if someone is fit to be the president of the United States or not Yeah, and you could do that with an impeachment inquiry. One of the many reasons one should be open not to mention all this shit will just end up in the same place in bars lap. Yeah, exactly. You know, which is what they want for sure. Of course, that's why they're doing it this way. And speaking of Bill Barr, he has appointed a special friend to investigate the oranges of the Trump investigation this week. That means origins.

US Attorney from Connecticut was tapped to determine if the government's methods of collecting intelligence were lawful and appropriate. I think his name is Berman or Herman or fuckface. Appropriate, according to the Associated Press. This comes from the AP this week. Barr has accused the FBI of spying on the Trump campaign without providing any evidence of that.

And Trump appointed FBI director Christopher Ray has testified he hasn't seen no evidence of wrongdoing. I run the FBI, there's no spying. There's also an investigation by the Justice Department's Inspector General into the oranges of the Russia probe. That should be done in May or June, according to bar. Late Tuesday, Trump Jr. struck a chicken shit deal with a Republican-led Senate Intelligence Committee about whether or not to appear and answer some questions about his previous bullshit testimony about Trump Tower Moscow, along with some questions about the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting. And if you remember, last week, we were all kind of shocked that Burr, the guy who ran

and tattled to Trump after he was briefed by Komi regarding the FBI investigation into a Russian interference signed off on a subpoena to compel Don Jr. to appear before the Senate Intelligence Committee, which he chairs. Amidst backlash from Republicans and Trump and Trump Jr. and his stupid friends, the Sissy, that's the select Senate Committee on Intelligence, has now agreed to a private hearing with Jr. about a limited number of issues that can last no more than two to four hours we all know that regardless of the testimony the senate would not hold junior and contempt if he flat out denied a subpoena so i pose this is supposed to better than nothing yet how do you even get this like that he say that he can't do for a long and four hours without calling his doctor direction

i'm a guy got a leave Hey, Reaction. Yeah, it's like, my Vagra, gotta leave. But I assume this will go nowhere again because if the Dems on the Committee are able to show the Trump Lied, which we all know that he did, a criminal referral would go to the Department of Justice and we're back to where we started. This could all be used, however, as evidence that all avenues were exhausted by Congress to try to get at the truth if any of these or any House subpoenas for junior ended up in court. Most of these shenanigans could be avoided

by opening an impeachment inquiry. You're saying? Just going to say it again. Yeah, just don't not there. Effectively turning the house judiciary into a grand jury, making it much easier to compel compliance with documentary and testimony subpoenas. One of a zillion reasons to open impeachment inquiry, including it being Congress's fucking job. But now Pat Sipaloni, White House Council has written a letter to Jerry Nadler saying, your rubber, I'm glue, anything you subpoena bounces off me and sticks to you. Yeah. Just stick with it. Burmaidem, right? Stickin' with their seven-year-old. Yeah.

Come back here. According to The Washington Post this week, the White House lawyer told Nadler that there's no do-overs allowed, and that all demands will be refused because Nadler is a duty head. It's the fight of the grandpa's's man. That's not to be ages. It's just like it's true. This letter not only broadly rejects all of Nadler's requests for documents and testimony, but argues that Congress has no legitimate purpose to investigate the executive branch. That's right, a lawyer is saying that the legislative branch has no check on the executive branch. Cipollone did not exert executive privilege, walked up to that line, but didn't call it. Though he said he might consider a narrower request,

if Nadler could provide the legislative purpose and legal support for the information he's seeking. These are the same arguments we've heard over and over again for refusing to comply with requests for information and subpoenas from Congress. Nadler calls this argument preposterous, saying the White House is making the outrageous claim and the President cannot be held accountable in any way in the American people.

This is ridiculous. It would make the President above the law, and of course, we totally reject it. We will subpoena whoever we have subpoena. That's so good. It's like a little snoopy and a little... A little nether, they. That's how NADLOR sounds to it. Yeah, yeah.

That's so good. That sounds like a South Park character. It really does. It's convincing. You're the same. Yeah, that's so good. That's how it's like a South Park character. It really does like it's convincing My idea like Kenny Oh, I like it is like Carmen when he grows up and starts becoming a civil servant finally stop shooting out of his mouth You're standing on. Like everyone else. I they should really diversify their defenses though because all it takes is one judge to not going down and then it's just like a fucking strike.

I think they're back to her against the wall. Is it like they're Hill Mary of a defense, right? They don't really have logic on this. Over the GOP. Yeah, yeah, totally. But I think you're saying diversify NADLERS responses. No, no, no, I'm saying the like the White House Council. Oh, yeah, they only stop giving their one thing.

Yeah, they're one thing is it doesn't have legislative purpose. Well, have you stopped to think like maybe it's not because they actually have an argument. They just want to delay this shit as long as they can. It's worked so far, right? Sort of. Delay delay. Yeah, stalling is all they want to do. Spray delay, walk away. I'm sure they do have.

I'm sure they do have like a list of I don't know five to ten maybe Oh, they're defences. Yeah, they're like that should get us to the next election and everyone in New Delhi forget it all I think you're right about that. It could possibly be My idea here is that Nabler should ask Mueller's colleagues that no longer work in the Department of Justice to testify Specifically Andrew Weissman. Because we've learned this week, what might be holding up the Mueller testimony is that blanket assertion of executive privilege over the entire Mueller report. Remember when they did that? The whole thing, even though we've seen most of it. That, and as of yesterday, Peter Carr, the spokesperson for Mueller, confirmed that Mueller is still a special

council and still works for Barr. Despite, yeah, but reports are now coming out that the bar is has something to do with this and it has something to do with executive privilege. Okay. Like Mueller, you can't testify about your report. The whole report is subject to executive privilege. That is crazy. We don't have any, you know, like firsthand knowledge of that. But despite bar saying he has no problem with Mueller testifying to Congress, that assertion

of executive privilege, by the way, how seems to be what's holding everything up. We also have to consider that Mueller might still be working, and this might be, might not be true. The Andrew Miller case is still not standing, and so is the secret company from country A, or maybe Mueller staying there to provide some sort of protection against special counsel's office. But no matter the reason, Weissman no longer works for bar and he could testify any time and he'd probably be more likely to say some shit than Mullerwood. Oh, yeah, because he's he's just a you know regular guy. Yeah, Muller. Yeah, Muller. Just a guy.

I'm just wild and crazy guy. Someone was wondering if it's because Muller wants his pension, but this this is Mueller's 24th and 25th year in service, including his service as a Marine. And so he's well earned his pet. Totally. And this is his past. And this is his character, right? This is just who he is.

He's not Kiss and Teller and Dight and Teller, you know, like, or guess besides the Mueller Report, he's just not someone to come on the, you know, trial and just blab really. Well, I think that if he were allowed to testify, he would really. I don't think bars letting him. I love to see it. He's inserting executive privilege over it. And of course, Mueller can't come out and say, Hey, won't let me do it. You know, he's a, he's a rule follower.

And that's what you're getting. Right, right. They're also saying that people like McGahn can't do it. And McGahn, McGahn, they can't. This has a candy man thing. McGahn can't because it mixes it with obstruction, it makes the world taste good. Eat my shit, candy.

Nice. But they're saying that he can't, he can't say anything either, and he's not under bar. He's just a guy. Right, but they are exerting executive privilege over him, and he's going with the White House as opposed to, because I, you know, I mean, would you rather go and talk to Congress

or just say, oh, the President will let me. And then have them fight your battles. I don't think you can get in trouble for not coming to testify because the President is exerting something over you that the White House gets in trouble for that. Exactly, that makes a lot of sense, yeah. And I wouldn't want to go and like to answer questions

in front of Congress, I didn't. Yeah, survival, like the cable saying, right? Yeah, whatever. You could say you could admit, you could say something else, you know, you know, you know, people hate you just for being there. You don't want to do that shit. Yeah.

Let's see here. Yeah, get Weisman in there though. That's my new thing. Weisman now, hashtag Weisman now. Bombshell revelation in the Flynn case this week. I'm going to cover that in hot notes. And finally this week, as expected, Steve and the IRS are refusing to comply with the subpoena from the Houseways and Means Committee Chair to handover Trump's taxes. This will likely now go to court unless the committee decides

to hold Steve and the IRS Commissioner Charles Reddick in contempt. I personally think they should and find them and find them $25,000 a day. And then go to court, where Congress would surely win based on longstanding precedent and it's the law that the IRS and the Treasury must hand over tax returns when asked for them by the chair of Houseways and Means. And you can't use the legislative thing here for sure because it doesn't matter what the purpose is for this. It's written into the law.

Oh, nice. So you can't be like, what's the purpose? It doesn't fucking matter. Using a justice that you had that the IRS has to give that stuff over. Yeah, and the reason is not important. Yeah, but that is what he's trying to say. Right. Yeah, I think he's throwing that in everything.

Sure, that's why he would in the court case. But we'll keep you posted on how that turns out. I think I have a feeling. But anyway, we'll be right back with abortion rights, Florida, and Flynn in hot notes after this quick word. A.G. here to tell you about my new favorite shoes. Rothies.

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I do, and they make everything I wear so cute. I have like these leopard print loafers, and I just love them. I feel fancy, no matter what I'm wearing, and they make everything I wear so cute. I have like these leopard print loafers and I just love them. I feel fancy, no matter what I'm wearing, and they're so comfortable. Jordan, you wear yours at work? I do, yeah. When I used to serve I don't know all the time, they're the best. And now I just wear them around all the time forever

because they're versatile. They go with all your different kinds of outfits. I get the black ones too, I'm like you. And truly the most comfortable slip-ons of overhead. Yeah, it has to help their machine washable too, especially as a server, because you just always are dumping junk all over them. At least I was when I was doing that totally. And today, Rothy's has an amazing deal for our listeners. Use code AG to get free shipping with no minimums.

Free shipping, free returns in exchanges on your Rothy's shoe, but trust me, you will not want to return them. Go to Rothy's.com, that's r-o-t-h-y-s.com, and enter AG to get your new favorite flags and free shipping. Hi, I'm Harry Littman, host of the Talking Feds podcast. A weekly round table that brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day. Most news commentaries delivered a 90-second sound bites to just scratch the surface of

a new development. Not talking feds. Each Monday I'm joined by a slate of feds favorites and new voices to break down the headlines and give the insiders view of what's going on in Washington and beyond. We dig deep, but keep it fun. Class side bars detailing important legal concepts read by your favorite celebrities, such as Robert De Niro explaining

whether the president can pardon himself. And Carol King explaining whether members of Congress can be disqualified from higher office and music by Philip Glass. Find talking feds wherever you get your podcasts and don't worry. As long as you need answers, the feds will keep talking. All right, welcome back. Hot notes.

All right guys, it's time for hot notes. And as you know, we have stories this week about Flynn and the Florida elections being hacked because we are a podcast about Mueller and the can you guys. So neither can you not It's just it's that important. We've had this happen a couple of times in the history of the show Or some things that went down that were like we can't yeah, like family separations is one of them Yeah, and should all countries and yeah, like we I can't not talk about this and Jordan you have that story. I do yes, so It's been a really shitty week, obviously. Uh, like we talked about at the top of the show, it's just been awful. It's been a horrendous week for women's reproductive rights as well as the doctors and allies that serve them in the name of those rights. So it's just been really bad for everybody.

CNN did a really good piece today outlining everything that's gone down across the country at this point and where all of those laws stand as of now. So here we go, brace yourself and get some cotton balls for when this makes your ears bleed. Because it is awful. Number one, Alabama passed the most restrictive abortion ban saying that it is disallowed in all cases, even in cases of incest and rape. And doctors who perform any abortions could be sentenced up to life in person and Alabama's law is supposed to go into effect in November. Then Georgia, Kentucky, Ohio, and Mississippi have all got heartbeat bills signed into law, which means basically that adoption of abortions, a heart band after the point that a heartbeat

is detected, which can be a time before many women even know that they're pregnant, and it's around six weeks is around that time period. Yeah, and how does HIPAA factor into all this? Because how is anyone investigating me going to know when my fetal heart beat started without violating HIPAA? That's a good point. I think about that. I don't think they have mentioned that many of the articles I've seen. No.

Yeah, I haven't seen anything that goes into any specifics like that right now. It's just like this is awful. It's generally fucked up. Yeah. The slightly good news. Also, I had a Freudian slip like 30 seconds ago. I said adoptions instead of abortions. Yeah, you think in Russian adoptions there?

Yeah, Russian adoptions, exactly. I once accidentally said abortion scare instead ofions there. Yeah, Russian adoptions, exactly. I was accidentally set up Borsen scare instead of pregnancy scare. Yeah. I would have been there too. Totally put you out of like no one, which side I went on. Yeah. Yeah, I just want to make it very clear, very approach-wise. That was not some supplemental message.

Right, right. But the slightly good news about these states is that Ohio and Mississippi, their bands are being challenged in the course right now. And the Kentucky bill was already blocked by a federal judge. Then we have Missouri which passed a bill that's similar to the heartbeat bill in those other states and that doctors that help in any cases will also be punished as they are in Alabama but the sentencing guidelines are less intense than they are in Alabama but they get still get over a decade in prison and just only decade.

than they are now, Bama. But they get still get over a decade in prison. And just only decade. Yeah. And now, so rapists get six months. Right. I mean, that's still a lot more than only. But the doctor who helps you get rid of the baby that the rapist put inside of you, 99 years, or a decade.

Or a decade. Yeah. It's insanity. Yeah. And there are now 11 other states with similar heartbeat legislation in the works. So this is a total seemingly coordinated wave of regression going through the country right now. And terrifying is truly an understatement.

I think ultimately their goal is to get Roe v. Wade overturned, obviously, that looks like it's where it's heading. But what this really translates to is all the stuff is going to pass in their legislative parties, right? And then it's going to go to the courts and it's going to take a long time. But that's a huge battle that's going to be coming up and is also going to be a huge issue for 2020. It's a giant issue for 2020.

That's why voting is so important because right now no lower court is can't. They can't allow these bills to go forward under current law. They just cannot. Only the Supreme Court can overturn Roe v Wade in these cases and and like you said that could take years That's why we have to take the Senate and the White House so we can write laws upholding protections for abortion And so we can ensure that future Supreme Court justices aren't assholes And even perhaps add Three judges to the scotus and appoint them ourselves So don't decide not to vote because you don and appoint them ourselves. Just the five? Yeah, yeah.

Don't decide not to vote because you don't like everything about whoever wins the Democratic nomination. We need your vote. Everyone who has a uterus need your vote, particularly people of color who are, it seemed to be more under attack by these laws. If you don't vote and Trump wins and Roe v Wade is overturned, I will squarely blame everyone who decided not to vote. So don't do that. Same. But yeah, you're totally right. This is

horrendous. They'll all be blocked. It'll go to the Supreme Court. One of them will make it. Yeah, they just need one. That's the sad thing. Yeah. I feel so blindsided because out of nowhere, it was just or at least in my purview out of nowhere. It was just boom, boom, boom, boom. One stayed after the other and it's like what the hell I had no idea that that was coming yeah if I had to guess and I don't really know much myself but it feels like a tea party kind of issue that might have rooted when Obama was elected well they've been um Jerry mandering uh and trying to steal house and state assemblies uh governorship for a while. This has been a couple of decades in the making. And so that was the setup for this to get,

at least you might not be able to get half the states that have Republican Senate, Republican House, and Republican governor, but enough to make it look like the majority of Americans think this way, which is what you brought up the other day in one of our daily episodes for patrons was that, you know, because we were talking about how Chief Justice Roberts tends to not rule against the zeitgeist, like what the people want. Like, for example, the gay marriage stuff and, you know, he might be this sort of conservative guy, but he's

not going to go against the public wave of opinions. Exactly. And so Republicans for decades now trying to make it seem like the majority of America, if we get 22 states on board, if we can cheat, how do we do that? Well we got to Jerry Mander and Cheat and then you know maybe get Russian involved and get down to our aid. I think it's been a long time coming for a lot of these issues. All to do this.

All to just, and it's not about, it's not because they care about life. It's because they want to control women. Yeah, it's almost like a new world of order. Or people with fear. Yeah, it's like an old world order too. They want to bring back what it used to be. What is plural for you to write?

You to write, I would imagine. I'm a con you to write. Cheesie, I don't know. Jesus is, I never knew that one, so. That's my joke. Oh, I'm so sorry. I was like. I'm a calm you to write. She's I don't know. Jesus is I never knew that one. So that's my joke. Oh, I'm so sorry. I was like, how do I think about that? Like, what did I come from? I came from an age you come.

Yes, and he's in my head, guys. Well, that is just thank you for covering that stuff. It's it's it's crazy. Yeah. And I'm going to read a Twitter thread later at the end of the show, that kind of, actually I'm gonna read it now, because it really kind of, when I read it, it really put into perspective.

It set a lot of things that I was feeling, particularly about this kind of stuff. Her name is Julia Peacock. She was running for California 42 against Calvert, I think, in Comet Republican. I think she's running again in 2020. And she put out this thread and it's been retweeted to Zillian bazillion times and it's absolutely fantastic.

And she says, dear whoever is listening, we are so tired, tired of hearing you talk on and on about his crimes than doing almost nothing about it. We're tired of Twitter platitudes that lack substance, heart or a plan. We're tired of hearing the same thing on the news every night, only to wake up the next day to some new insanity while we hear you utter the same hollow refrain. We're tired of the blue wave that has left merely a puddle under our shoes that quickly blends in with the shadows of the treachery that is this traitorous leadership of our democracy. We're tired of pundits and experts who repeat what we already learned that another day has

passed into history with no action or recourse for our fears. We're tired of trying to explain to our daughters why no matter how hard we rage against the dying of the light, that we haven't done enough to ensure the courts will be fair to them as they grow into adulthood and inherit this mess we've created. We're tired of hearing from those who believed him only to find two years later that they didn't realize he was lying and omai how he's hurt me. So now I actually care and want to take back my vote. We're tired of marching and protesting and petitioning and signing and hearings and reports

and the rot of evidence you have before you that you won't do anything productive with. We're tired of your whimpering and simpering and we can't do this because of his base that leaves us hollow and heartbroken. We're tired of trying to explain why all of this is so damn dangerous and potentially irreversible while you beg for patience. We're tired of being polite and turning the other cheek and going high against racists and liars and thieves and power hungry zealots who just want us to know our place. We're tired of trying to do more with less at home in school, at work, and everywhere

in our lives while you keep getting paid and have insurance and travel for free on our dime. Did I mention we're tired? But do not misunderstand, we are tired, but we are not done. See we are watching you. We are remembering your promises and your vows to protect us and fight for us and to not go gentle into that good night. We remember. We are going to remember so much more of what you said that you do but didn't, what you promised but ignored, our feet are sore, our hearts are heavy,

and we are wondering how much more we can handle and how many more mountains we can climb, and how much longer we can stand and wait for you to do what we have been counting on you to do. We are tired, but we will fight on, and for every one of us who loses their way and cannot take another single step, five more of us will take their place. But you owe it to us. The tired, the poor, the huddled masses, you're needing to breathe free. To do your jobs, I'm sorry. To protect our democracy and our constitution, to hold the lawbreakers and cheats accountable. Now, right now, no more obviu skating, no more play skating, do your jobs. I mean, that is summed up so perfectly. Who, who was that again?

That is Julia Peacock. Julia Peacock. California 42nd. Wow. Canada for Congress. Wow. Yes, Congress. Those are one of those audacity of hope speeches.

That kind of hits. Good, right? I've heard the animal. No, really, I felt it. When she's like five more, we'll take their place. I'm like, yes, we will. Absolutely. All right, guys.

Sorry about that. No feelings, no emotions. No feelings. I am a stone. Jolise, so let's pivot a little bit, talk for a second about the two Florida counties that were breached by Russia. Yeah, yeah. It's so funny how this is a lighter topic.

Yeah. Moving on to the lighter side of the news, Russians hacked our elections, and now there's proof. Oh my goodness. So yeah, so this week, we learned from Politico and the Washington Post that in 2016, two Florida voter registration databases were breached by the Russian government group, GRU,

and they were spearfished. As many of you know, this is the same Russian spy agency that hacked the DNC servers that same year in response, the election supervisor in one of those counties, Carol Rudd said, quote, if each agency gets suspicious of the other's ability to follow the rules of confidentiality, then those tenuous lines of communication quickly break down, that would set our security capabilities back years and severely compromise our ability to protect our elections. And that would be a big one for the Russians going into 2020. So it sounds like she understands how serious this breach is, but she also is concerned that if she goes

around blabbing about the details of the breach to just anyone that it will put the agencies in even more turmoil, on the other hand, Florida Secretary of State, Ken Dezner, said that while he was legally prohibited from commenting on the breach, he added that quote, the citizens deserve and have a right to know important things with regard to their election security. He also said that over enough time, it will eventually come out anyways. So as a result of all of this, Florida's congressional members are pushing for a change in legislation regarding election breach notifications. Currently, the law states that federal agents are not obligated to disclose information

about cyber attacks as soon as they occur. Obviously many people are not happy about that. In fact, Congresswoman Stephanie Murphy said quote, it is untenable to continue to hold its information classified and not let the public know. This chaotic drip-drab of information that is coming out of this is doing more harm to constituents, faith in our electoral system. However, the FBI believes that voters in those counties have no right to that information because they claim the victims are the counties themselves rather than the individual voters they even made the governor of florida sign an in d.a. saying that he wouldn't go

public with the info he got from his fby briefing on thursday this is the fby that's saying all that yeah yeah and so i think that's a lot of people well maybe i think i think the s Sanchez is lying about that very possible Basically lawmakers disagree with this entire process. They say even Republican congressman or your Republican congressman Matt gates who we mentioned earlier He said this is ridiculous and that the victims and the cases are not the government office office holders But rather the voters so wow we agree with Matt gates on so it's everyone. Yeah, because everyone is a voter Right, right.

So I guess in that case, yeah. But they're justification for not telling anyone's only the victims can tell. Right, right. I'm just there, you know, I see what you're saying, Jordan. It's not like, yeah, just more. Are you in a real car than traffic? Right, I get what you're saying,

but we're all being screwed over together. Totally. The FBI for some reason though, is saying that the counties themselves are not the voters. Like they're being very semantic about this saying the county has to come out themselves basically. Yeah, they're designating them as the only victims in this. Totally.

And some people are saying the FBI is kind of right. I don't know who these people are, but some people apparently experts say it's not their place to out the victims. It's anonymous experts. Maybe it's the FBI doing their own complaints. So the root of the whole argument seems to be whether or not the FBI is overclassifying the information regarding the breach. I don't know what do you guys think. I think they are. I mean, as of now, if you told me to explain to you what happened, I couldn't tell you other than that I know that they were hacked, right? And I think

I'd like to know the specifics of that. So then as a activist and citizen, I can tell my congressman to look out in women to look to look out for certain things, I guess. And on top of that, I think another argument was that we already know about spearfishing. Like we've already had articles that have publicly explained what it is in terms of like what Russia's doing. So for them to say that they can't talk about it. It's already been talked about in other context. So we just want to know which counties specifically were hacked in Florida, and they don't want to tell anybody.

So that's just weird to me. It's like, local citizens need to be able to lobby their representatives accurately. But we did find out one of them is Washington County. Oh, okay, that confused me. I was like, Washington, but that's in Florida. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay, thank you for clearing that out.

So yeah, that was the follow-up that I sent you. Cool, I did do that. Yeah, they found out it was Washington County. Washington County was one of them. We still don't know the other. I wonder if it's Broward Oh, that's a weird county. Okay. Anyways, that's my unknown. All right. Thank you. Yeah You are our election protection Selection yes, I'm on it reporting on the news for the here first for the hat got Election security happening. You heard it here first. We're gonna have to get the election security happening. You heard it here first two years ago. I

get to I understand the sentiment behind saying that the trust citizens have an electoral process might go down when this information comes up but is it not going down even more when you're telling me hey you might not trust us after the thing we're not gonna tell you happen It's like well now I'm just losing both in both ways. Yeah, I am and should we trust an untwist What if they system? Should we forget about the weather? What if we're lost? Oh my goodness. Should we untrust? Should we trust an untrustworthy system? That's a very good point. That's I mean, I get it You don't want to you know the whole the whole goal of Russia was for us to lose faith in our democratic process.

Mission accomplished. But as was Marie Bhutanis. Right. So it's like, you know, what should you do? Oh, let's just not tell them. And everything will be fine. Right. And FBI with all of their, like, you know, controversy is going on.

You think they would maybe bend the rules a little, but I guess this is just who they are. They're like, even when we're facing fire, they're going to stick to their guns and say, well, in the law, it says, well, this is Trump's FBI too. All of the Comies five, everybody who we really liked in the FBI is gone. You're so right. I forgot about that. That's a big deal. Yeah. They must be able to come up with some statement though that divulges something more than what's already been divulged. And just something. It wouldn't fall under, you know, revealing too much. Leaked that shit.

Was it, I think Trevor Noah or someone said, Lake the Mueller report, how is it so hard? Apparently Nick Cage could steal the declaration. Granted, it's a movie, but yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, if there are people that are gonna be like, oh, I don't trust these voting systems, so I'm not gonna vote. Those people already exist currently.

I don't think that there's much that's gonna come out of the specifics. I'll be like, okay, well, that's too much. It's already generally known that our electoral system is weak apparently before the hacking. Yeah, I just want to know how weak, how weak T is this? Yeah, it is important information. I hope it gets out. I hope that somebody figures out what the fuck is going on. But I feel like I feel like DeSantis and Trump's FBI and the White House are sort of blocking this from happening. That sounds like me and Russian interference in order to win 2020. Yeah, yeah, and it's kind of like everyone underneath DeSantis that's like, hey, this is wrong.

And he's just like, oh, well, he's the only one that got the full briefing. Yeah, I was told not to say anything. I don't believe it. It's a punitive thing. Although there have been some FBI people who have said, that's actually pretty actually pretty common where you read somebody in and a skiff and you tell them you can't talk about it. That's what I was thinking. I was just hoping that maybe they would at least like change their rules a bit in this case, but yeah, and but again, then as this is Trump, Trump's FBI who's making them say it. Yeah, so it's even more concerning

in that sense. Yeah, a bit. Yeah. All right, thanks for that. Real depressing. Okay. All right, let's go back to attorney general bars confirmation hearing member all those years ago. When he told the Senate Judiciary Committee that it would be illegal for a president to coach a witness or persuade a witness to change testimony. This was before he released the Mueller report with his specified redactions to Congress and the public and before he decided himself to rule that the president had not obstructed justice, and now we might know what have motivated at least some of those redactions.

In a newly unredacted court filing from prosecutors related to Flynn's sentencing, Mueller's team has revealed that one of the things Flynn told special counsel was Trump and his allies tried to thwart the investigation by reaching out to Flynn to subborn perjury after Flynn's lawyer backed out of the joint defense agreement and after Flynn started cooperating. Makes sense. Quote, the defendant informed the government of multiple instances, both before and after his guilty plea, whether he or his attorneys received communications from persons connected to the administration or Congress that could have affected both his willingness to cooperate and the completeness of the cooperation.

The defendant even provided a voicemail recording of one such communication. The voicemail now we know comes from John Dowd right after Flynn pulled out of the joint defense agreement, which was one of the major clues we received early on that Flynn was getting ready to flip. I'm like, oh, they pulled out of the joint defense agreement. He's going to flip. He's going to flip. And then bam, he flipped, right? Those were some big beans we had back in the day. Flynn's attorney, uh, return the call November 23rd, 2017. That's like three weeks after we started our podcast. To acknowledge the receipt of the voicemail and said they are no longer in a position to share information under any sort of privilege. And apparently Dowd was indignant and vocal in his disagreement. I'm not surprised.

Remember, when we were reading, I can't remember what book it was, but the meetings between Dowd was it fear? It sounds like between Dowd and... Or Russian Relat, one of those. And Muller. And Russian Relat, but I know. There were a lot of meetings in these books, man. No, I think it was fear.

Between Dowd and Muller, where Dowd's like, come on, you fucker, we're help, Mujoon, everything we fucking can. Yeah, fear that. I do remember that. I was like a fear like dad and Mueller where dad's like, come on, you fucker, we're help, we're doing everything we fucking can. Yeah, fear that. I do remember that. I guess fear like story. Yeah, yeah. A fear quote, right? Yeah, it was a fear quote.

That was all that juicy stuff in that book. This new newly unsealed portion of the filing also details, Flynn's efforts to help Mueller and the WikiLeaks email dump operation saying Flynn, quote, provided statements made in 2016 by senior campaign officials that included the possibility of reaching out to WikiLeaks. So that's probably some more of the proof that allowed Mueller to make to draw the conclusion that they were willing and able to accept this help in the Trump campaign.

Definitely. And that they knew it would help their chances of winning. Dems and Congress are using this filing as an example of why they need the underlying evidence from the report and not just the unredacted report itself. Okay. This speaks volumes to our ongoing questions about why Trump allies never once said anything negative about Flynn, despite publicity, they're publicly attacking other cooperating witnesses like Cohen, right? He always was kind of man-affort and Flynn, but not Cohen and some of the other folks. Oh, I'm part of Cohen. The Washington Post reported this week that when Dow'd left the voicemail, he was trying to learn whether Flynn had any problematic information about

the president after his lawyer's signal, they might be cooperating with Mueller, namely by pulling out of that joint defense agreement. So now we have Barr, who has admitted a few times that this kind of behavior is classic obstruction of justice, not just in his confirmation hearing, which I mentioned, but in his four-page bullshit memo where he said, quote, obviously the president and any other official can commit obstruction in the classic sense of sabotaging a proceedings

truth-finding function. So Barr got the report, redacted the Flynn stuff, refuses to supply the underlying evidence, and then says he doesn't see any obstruction of justice. And now the Mueller prosecutors decide to release publicly the previously redacted evidence showing how Flynn provided cooperation in previous sentencing memos.

So this unredacted material, this isn't from the Mueller report. These unredacted pages are Mueller's lawyers, basically making a court filing in the Flynn sentencing case. Do you remember the old Flynn sentencing memo with all the redacted parts? That's this. That's so interesting. I didn't realize it was going to come from there.

So this isn't what's in the Mueller report. This is something totally different. I feel like Flynn and Stone should you say, calm, call the Flynn stones. That's all. I'm done. Flynn stone. Me. Flynn stone. And they're just both behind bars just oh yeah that's the

family so this filing your bell on it sorry oh no the filing says Flynn received communications from people connected to the administration and Congress and Matthew Miller a former Justice Department spokesperson who we've had on as a guest, says these revelations make clear just how important it is that Congress get all of the materials underlying the Mueller report. We already know that one of Trump's attorneys had tried to dissuade Flynn from cooperating,

but the news that someone connected to Congress did so raises questions for both Congress's own internal ethics processes and for the public. We need to know who it was and what they did. Unquote. I have beans on Nunez, considering he tweeted about being in constant contact with Flynn and remember that he was meeting with a group

of congressional Republicans in secret to strategize how to fight the Mueller investigation. Remember those little secret? Oh yeah. Mickey Mouse Club fucking meetings that he was having me. Down in deep holes of Congress or whatever. These revelations are hugely, hugely important. First, they give Congress a huge leg to stand on in the fight for the full report and the underlying material. This could also be the catalyst

for opening an official impeachment inquiry, hint, hint, though that's not to say we didn't have enough already. But this is clear obstruction, deserving of further scrutiny that has come outside the Mola report, or at least bits we've been allowed to see. So Barr's cloudy bullshit release of the report isn't a consideration here. This is new information that equates to the same article of impeachment against Nixon, quote, approving condoning acquiescing and counseling witnesses with respect to the giving of false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employees of the United States and false or misleading testimony and duly instituted judicial and congressional proceedings. Long way to say, witness tampering, right? Liar! But now bars' redactions should be under severe scrutiny, because this is clearly

something he was trying to hide. Not only that, but this direct evidence calls into question, bars, conclusions that there was no obstruction. And since it doesn't come from the Mueller report, it's a brand new thing. We just got this is what you could use to open an impeachment. Because they don't have executive privilege over this, right? Right. Nice. It hasn't been exerted.

This is just the Flynn sentencing memo that the Mueller's team, oh, just coincidentally, we're going to put together. We're going to put this together. Yeah. Publish this, unredacted. So smart. This is just the Flynn set in Zingembo that the Mueller team. Oh, just coincidentally. We're gonna put together. Publish this unredacted. So smart. It's like chess. And so, you know, if somebody was like, oh, we had the Mueller report for weeks,

why now, Nancy Pelosi? Why are you opening impeachment inquiry now? Well, this is completely separate from that. So now you can do it. Nancy, if you're listening. Just do it now. That is still a good question though. You should have done that shit long ago.

Yes. But now they could question why you You should have done that shit long ago. Yes. But now they could question why you waited. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah. We were reading it. The kicker to all this is that judge Emmett Sullivan released two minute orders this week in Flynn's case. And remember, Sullivan is the judge that warned Flynn multiple times in a sentencing hearing last December that he'd do well not to be sentenced right today, but rather he should just go home, try to cooperate a little more. He a good boy for his own good. And during that hearing, he also asked Mueller's team if they'd considered charging Flynn with trees this. Remember that? And he walked it back a little bit. Sullivan has ordered though that the portions of the Mueller report related to Flynn be unredacted

and released to the public, along with the voicemail from Dowd and the transcripts of Flynn's conversations with Kissley Act during the transition. So this Flynn memo that had nothing to do with the Mueller report has come out now and it has prompted Judge Sullivan to say, all right, well, then I want everything in the Mueller report about Flynn unredacted and released to the public. And those and not, you know, again, that voicemail, he wants the public to have that and those Kislyak transcripts. Well, those are the conversations that he lied about having, remember.

And this is the first time a federal judge has ordered unredacted portions of the Mueller report be released to the public. We know Amy Burman, Judge Jackson, if you're nasty, ordered that the Justice Department furnish unredacted portions to her related to Stone's case, but Sullivan here is releasing it to all of us. Yeah. Can you do that? Yes.

How? He's a judge. But someone can appeal that before it gets released, can't they? I don't know. I don't know, because this is procedural. That seems too easy. It's not a hair. It's a deep dick.

Cool. I forgot that. I needed another syllable. I'm skilled at dick. I like the suspension. They might file an injunction or file an appeal or a, what do you call it, a motion to obstruct that thing. Yeah.

But I haven't heard about this anywhere, but I wonder if this could affect the Buzzfeed FOIA suit Where you remember when Judge Reggie Walton reserved the right to look under the redactions to determine whether bars redactions were appropriate or not This could have Buzzfeed now could file a suit to say oh it appears that the Flynn shit is bullshit We should look under those redactions. Yeah, and Walton might do that. Oh, I love it I really want to see Trump's lawyers have a Freudian slip and cord and be like, I have struck. I mean, I have to. That would be funny. That's great. You too. All right. Cool, guys. We'll be right back in him sitting. Blah. That's great.

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NUMNOM.com slash AG. What do you have to lose? Visit NUM.com slash AG to start your trial today. Again, that's NUM.com slash AG. Start losing weight for good. Alright, you guys ready for sabotage? Yes! Alright guys, just when you thought the Flynn story couldn't get any weirder, we have now learned that Flynn started cool after Flynn started cooperating He reached out to congressman Matt gates and encouraged him to continue to bash Mueller and fight the investigation

That's according to CNN who somehow obtained these messages which were sent as DMs on Twitter He sent a couple of messages Flynn did to gates saying you stay on top of what you're doing your leadership is so vital for our country now Keep the pressure on that message was sent in April of 2018. The same evening, Gates appeared on Fox News, sharply criticizing the Mueller investigation, like within the hour of that happening. Gates said he did not respond. The second message Flynn sent was a gif of a bald eagle and then an American flag that Flynn sent to Gates the day bar was confirmed. This shows that Flynn could have been vacillating back and forth during his cooperation about

whether he wanted to cooperate or not, and this could complicate matters for Flynn during sentencing. But it also could show that maybe some of that, you know, reach out from lawyers in the Trumps fear when Dowd left that message and dangled those pardons and said, you know, we're on your side, bro That might have made him waver a little bit. Oh, yeah In December 2018 during that Sullivan sentencing hearing Sullivan expressed skepticism that Flynn had accepted responsibility for his crimes And so this is not gonna play well with him And this seems to be separate from anything in the Mueller report or the Flynn memo

I have doubts that Mueller knew anything about this and this is also separate from that's the molar report or the Flynn memo. I have doubts that Muller knew anything about this, and this is also separate from, that's beans, by the way, I don't know. Right, right. But this is also separate from the members of Congress mentioned in the filing on seal this week in the Flynn case in that memo. According to Asha Ran Gapa, while this might not be illegal, it could cast doubt on Flynn's guilty plea, and explains why Trump was so comfortable with Flynn and not someone like Cohen.

This seems like a campaign for a pardon. And now much like Manafort, Flynn could be perceived as having been disingenuous in his cooperation with Mueller. Wow. Because of these messages. The major question remains, who leaked these to CNN? Is it Flynn trying to loo the truth and get out in front of it? Or my theory, what if it's Gates trying to discredit Flynn as a witness?

Oh, it's so like gates and less like Flynn in the upcoming stone. Yeah. Yeah. Some have asked if it was Flynn trying to bait gates as part of the investigation like maybe more like who detects your buddies and see who answers Yeah, yeah, that seems weird though Either way, I'm dying to know how CNN got their hands on these Twitter messages. He's the master gate bater. That's not gonna work He's a gate spater. He's a Oh my gosh, I like that gates better And super sabotage, okay, do we have a song for super sabotage? Maybe just regular sabotage. Yeah, slow moreas. Put some stank on it. Today, a Republican congressman for the first time from Michigan's third district, Justin Amash,

has just tweeted a thread, like an hour ago, saying Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct. Oh, it begins. Yes. This is the first guy to jump ship. Thank you for your service. Yes, he says, here are my principal conclusions. One, Attorney General Barr has deliberately

misrepresented the Mueller report. Two, President Trump has engaged in impeachable conduct. Three, partisanship has eroded our system of checks and balances, and four, few members of Congress have read the report. Thank God. Seriously. What's the fucking hard is that to do?

It's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, it's too, too, it's too, it's too, He's a super libertarian tea party guy. Yeah, Joe Wall shes the guy that's on Twitter now. It's like this beacon of light on my news feed. Yeah.

Okay. Still doage, but yeah. I do want to give Matt Poffer a tea party do. I know like some people are going to say, don't give people credit for like doing what they should, but it takes a lot for someone with that kind of mentality to flip it. You know, it's like these are their like core values

and Trump just pushed them to the limit. So I really do commend him. Well, they also jumped on a very specific bandwagon as T-Partiers and this was not part of it. You know, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and he said, you know, he goes on it's for the, in this thread, you should look it up. It's just in a mosh, he's written this,

it's going everywhere, it's going viral. But he said, look, I read the report. And this is some fucked up shit. And this isn't what I signed up for. And I think Trump has committed impeachable offenses, particularly in volume two under the obstruction of justice stuff. And yeah, wow, for a Republican congressman to come forward and say that. Because once one, the first one is always the hardest to tip over.

Yeah, right? After that, what Romney might come around with some harder stances. He might be more than disappointed. He's a son of a... He's a son of a... Well, I bet he didn't come up with some harder stances. He might be more than disappointed. He's a son of a kid. He's a son of a kid. Well, I bet he didn't come up with that in a vacuum. He's probably been talking to his other colleagues and peers and they're like, this is fucked up, right?

I'm not crazy. And that's a really good point. I don't think he can just go out on that limb without having. Test the waters, right? Yeah. Well, we shall see what hot notes we'll have in the next few weeks about.

Well, again, he's coming out. Dude, and then also like fucking fucking Tommy Lauren on Twitter this week. Yes, with the reproductive stuff. Yes, coming out of Getset shit. It's like, I mean, it's common sense, but also thank you for being. Yes. And at first I was afraid she was doing it

because she thought it was too extreme to pass scotus, which is what that Pat Robertson guy was basically saying. But no, she was actually saying, this is too far. She's saying people are not gonna stop getting abortions. They're just gonna find other unsafe ways to do it. So yeah. Yeah. What?

It feels good to let these people in, you know? I agree. Like, come to the fold. Keep chasing this feeling. Yeah. Come over to our side and fucking stop. She's not like a completely evil person. I totally have a lot of problems with her.

But even though this is rapper who made a video where he referenced like problems he had with her and she said well You did reference killing me, but I would like to talk to you. Oh my god. Yeah, she's been a little more open Maybe it's just recently but who knows? I don't like that too much. Yeah, yeah Could be just a whole stunt to switch sides and be more popular. I wonder whatever. I don't care Switch sides come over here. Whatever it takes. Well, it's important because you're a mouthpiece. Yeah, you're an influencer. That's why it's important Right, that's all she is is just someone that's found out what she needs to say and how she needs to say it to like make money So the fact that she said something like that for potentially would make her less money. There's more money over here Tommy

Come over. That's that's money you won't yeah, that's how true you ever heard Bill Gates That's true. Yeah, but we got sorrows. We do No, Bill Gates is liberal. Oh, I thought you said that's not's how true you ever heard Bill Gates. Oh, yeah, but we got sorrows We do know Oh, I thought you said that's not true. Have you ever heard of Bill Gates? I've heard yeah, that's true. Yeah, there's Just wind in a brain We got the Amazon totally there's a bunch of people that have worn buffalos. Yeah, yeah, yeah You can get paid I'm having worth as money. I know it's gonna make. I just more mean liberals in general. Good point across the world.

Yeah. Or just, there's more people over here. There are. Yeah. And if you're just going by clicks and hits and spins. Yeah. Yeah. $35 donation on average.

That's incredible. There's a lot of people that will do that. Yeah. They care. A lot of people that care on this side. Yeah, I think we'd welcome her fondly. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there'd be a we'd welcome her fondly. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there'd be a lot of things to hash out.

Sure, we'll talk about it. We'll have some of you. I'm not gonna give you a whole drawer of your own. I have to figure out where the apartment gets split. We'll go with the flow. There's gonna need to be some reintegration work for sure, but can't work with anyone. When it comes to town with our death panels.

Exactly. We'll make sure you're fine. All right, guys, ready for the fantasy indictment league? Yes. Yes. I'm gonna be a detective. No, it is gonna be a detective. I'm gonna be a detective.

I'm a dick. And I'm a detective. I'm gonna be a detective. I'm gonna be a detective. Oh, they can't. It's gonna be okay. Just calm down. I can't calm down.

All right, guys, no indictments this week. So no points. And I get to pick first. And I'm going with Broidy. I feel like it's gonna be excited! All right guys, no indictments this week, so no points, and I get to pick first, and I'm going with Broidy. I feel like it's gonna be Broidy's time. I'm not gonna say that terrible joke that Roger Stone always says. Oh, no worry, I think his time is coming.

Yeah. I will go with Weiselberg. All right. I'm going right knees down. Okay. I'm going to go with Donald Trump Jr. Why not just start off with a hail Mary? Just throw it out there.

Tom Barak. Okay. Fitton. Sherry Dylan for me. All right. Okay. That's one of Trump's lawyers from the Trump org I think. Trump and I girl.

Trump and I girl. Oh, thank you. Thank you. I'm going to go with the Trump org. Oh, thank you, thank you. I'm gonna go with the Trump org. Oh, that was your pick in our girl. Yeah, yeah, Trump and I, girl, yeah. And then org for you, A.G. Okay. Well, since we're all doing Trump stuff, is there anything left that he owns?

The Trump campaign? I want the campaign, or Trump, I know. Trump, I know. He owns nothing. Trump, I, is the water. That's right, Trump, I, is never forget. He put, he added up on his financial disclosure forums this week

that he made like a quarter of a million dollars from Trump, I, is, yeah. It's been def Trump has never forget. He put his head up on his financial disclosure forms this week that he made like a quarter of a million dollars from Trump's eyes. Yeah. It's been defunct since 2010. That's amazing. It's my turn. Yeah. Okay.

So when asked you why on Twitter, sorry I didn't respond to you. I'm publicly calling myself out right now. They asked me why I picked Sater in the fantasy and diving league. And it's just because of his relationship with the Trump Tower Moscow. Yeah. Well, as it turns out though, he's a cooperating with the FBI. Right. That's what they said.

So maybe he lied to Congress about Trump Tower Moscow as an informant for the FBI. Yeah. You want to switch it up? That's one thing you can do though. I still feel like you can. You can lie to Congress as long as the FBI knows that the Congress knows wouldn't You just say I can't answer that question. I would

Yeah, good point. Yeah, I don't know either way that can blow your cover, you know, you don't want to look like If you want to keep saying that and he gets like and died it next week and you're like, I don't know Yeah, it's like a rando if nothing else or all these are just fantasies anyway, so I'll just keep them on there I guess I'll do know. I don't know. It's like a rando if nothing else, right? These are just fantasies anyway. So I'll just keep them on there, I guess. Hi. Hi. All right, I'll do a AMI. Mm, yes.

I will do Brittany Kaiser as per you. I'm going to do Corsi plea deal. Mm, good bye. It's coming. You think you'll, do you think you'll plea up? I hope not. No, it's been so long at this point. I think this is a diet that I feel like. Oh, yeah, good playing, good playing. That's coming. He didn't help you think you'll play up. I know it's been so long at this point. I feel like fucker

Yeah, good playing. Good point. That's true It's sort of like that whole lawsuit against the FBI the CIA the NSA muller and the Department of Justice Yes, he's acting up, but at this point it's been so long since he's been severely acting up I wonder if maybe some sense has come around to him or something and could be I don't know like they didn't take the bait Really so it's like all right well is this my fifth pick this is your fifth pick last one yeah last round a sange cool that fucking guy I'm gonna do Eric Prince nice I forgot about him I forgot about him too I was trying to I knew that there's so many players I actually write them I'm sorry. They're still packer and Dylan Howard from A-Mine.

They haven't gotten, they haven't been picked yet. Yeah. Where's Cretico at and all this right now? Do you think in terms of the sentiment? We're in the sentiment, the sentiment that investigative bodies have. Let's do, I'm just gonna go with... And Nunberg hasn't been oh

Having heard That old guy Her red plum face Because you got totally owned Oh The last you'll go to jail is like really? Oh never mind. I don't want to do that That sounds bad. She sounds bad. Yeah, okay. I you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you.

Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you.

Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you.

Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. Yeah, I'll tell you. with an interview with Ellie Honeig and it's really awesome so stick around for it. Spring is here and that means it's time for spring cleaning, yay! And I just got started using the amazing non-toxic products I get from Grove. Grove makes shopping for healthier home products more affordable and easier. Over half a million family shop Grove.co for non-toxic dish soap, plant-based skin care, and tree-free bath tissue. Grove takes all the work out of having to research the sustainability and healthiness

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Yeah, it's complicated. What's so complicated about a podcast? That's the name of the podcast, remember? Oh! Will you still be exploring topics that help us understand the week's news? You bet, but we'll have a new name, because we're going to be working together to explore complicated issues that are done in the news. Working together. Yeah, your hosting it with me, remember?

Oh, right. Wait, does that mean our podcast is going to have a steam op segment? Let's not get carried away. But we'll discuss hot new legal topics, so check out our new episode, coming soon to everywhere you get podcasts as well as YouTube. Joining us for the interview today is someone we've been wanting to talk to for a while. It's former federal and state prosecutor and CNN legal analyst, Ellie Honegg. We really appreciate you coming on to talk to us. So a couple of things I really wanted to discuss today are the implications of judge Sullivan's decision and the release of cooperation information in the Flynn case,

along with your views on Bill Barr's judgment, the judgment calls that he's been making and handling the release of the Mueller report and beyond. But first, can I get your initial reactions to the news about Flynn this week? It's pretty bombshell stuff. Yeah, it is. My first reaction is actually, a lot of this was already known to the public. There are a few extra details that have come out this week. But the basic gist of Flynn and his cooperation and the efforts that people around Trump will say, made to dissuade him from cooperating to vaguely threaten him and to maybe even potentially reward him if he didn't, that's already largely in the Mueller report. And to me, it really underscored the fact that there's so much in there that really very

few people, a very small percentage of the general public has absorbed and understood. And we've seen polling showing that something like 3% of the American public has actually read the report. I don't expect people to read it word for word. It's 140 something pages, but the fact that it drives home for me is there's so much stuff in there that is so concerning and that is either criminal or an abuse of power that is just sitting there, but it's not even been fully mined or sort of put out in the public conscience.

Yeah, totally. And like you said, we've kind of been reporting on these things as, I mean, you know, the, for example, the phone calls back and forth between Flynn and members of Trump campaign. And just like you said, some of that obstruction stuff, I didn't realize that they had an actual voicemail of somebody doing that, which is pretty crazy. And that Judge Sullivan wants to judge Sullivan, who by the way was asking Mueller's team why they hadn't considered charging Flynn with trees. And you know, that kind of that phone call evidence, he wants that release, that voicemail evidence. know that kind of that phone call evidence he wants that release that voicemail evidence uh... and i think the obstruction implications are pretty explosive in in that

uh... case and that muller likely meant for the obstruction investigation to be continued by congress but what about all this new stuff that we might be seeing about the russian investigation where muller's already decided he is not found evidence of a conspiracy that rose to the level of criminality but that doesn't mean that collusion didn't happen and bad things didn't take place.

So how important do you think this news is? Yeah, people need to understand this idea and there's this talking point that's being put out there by the president and our attorney general as well, no collusion. No collusion. That is complete nonsense. And you can start with the Mueller report. Robert Mueller goes out of his way in the report. And I was I was glad to see him do this because a lot of prosecutors and I had said this before the Mueller report came out, which

is collusion is not a legal term. It's not a criminal term. There's a very narrow area of antitrust law, which has nothing to do with this. But other than that, you will not find the word collusion in any criminal law book, it will never be uttered by a serious prosecutor. The term here is conspiracy. So let's start with that. What Mueller found is not that Trump did nothing or that people around him did nothing, including Don Trump, Jr. and Maniford and Kushner. He just found there was not enough evidence to charge a crime of conspiracy.

That's a very high burden and there's plenty of room between did there was not enough evidence to charge a crime of conspiracy. That's a very high burden And there's plenty of room between did nothing and not enough charge or crime Yeah, in fact, you can't even open investigation. You can't even open an investigation if nothing was dived There was no collusion. So there's at least some right. I mean, you have to have a good faith basis The other thing is let's also remember it's not as if the Mueller report comes up completely empty and volume one. First of all, there was a massive proven campaign, criminal campaign by Russians to hack into our election in a criminal way.

And this is this sort of gets to the bar thing. Remember bars for page letter that was so important because it set the public tone. It's the first impression that we as the public had and first impressions are so important in lasting. And Barr did something really sneaky and I think dishonest, which is he quoted the second part of a sentence where I don't have it in front of me, but essentially he said, Mueller found that there was not enough evidence

to charge criminal conspiracy with between Trump campaign members in Russia. But he left out he cut out the first half of that exact same sentence, which is on page one of volume one of the report, which essentially says I found that the Russians engaged in a in a broad criminal conspiracy to hack the election and that members of the Trump campaign expected to benefit electorally from those crimes. That is incredibly dangerous and problematic stuff. Maybe it doesn't quite meet the definition of a criminal conspiracy under our code, but boy, it is enormously consequential. If they expected to benefit, that is the term. That means, A, they knew about it, B, they liked it,

and C, they were hoping to profit from it, not necessarily financially, but to win politically from it. Right. And I mean, that could even be articles of impeachment or an article of impeachment does not have to rise to the level of criminality that prosecutors need in order to move forward with a indictment. So this is something to me that seems like an impeachable offense as well.

But I think maybe Barr's characterization with that letter could have mucked it all up. Well correct. And one of I guess the successes in Trump's legal team has had some successes. I don't think they're, I don't think they've handled things in a political, in a particularly skilled manner, but sometimes you win. And one of the successes they had in, in said, they've been very good at setting the public discourse and the public expectation. And one of the things they did very early on that seems to have stuck is this idea of crime or go home. And that if it's not a crime, pack up your bags forget

about it who cares about these non criminal abuses of power and I think they succeeded in that look bar just bar just took that baton from them and ran with it and I think the more we look back at that at bars whole campaign really to spin this report before it came out the worst it seems let's remember bar had that held on onto that report. Mueller's report for, how, three and a half, four weeks, I think, before he, he put it out there. And he really had launched a campaign. It started with his four-page letter, which was incredibly one-sided in misleading. As we've later learned, Robert Mueller told Barr to his face

in a letter, right? And Mueller's complaint to Barr was very straightforward. He said, you've mischaracterized the context, nature, and substance of my findings. Well, there's not a lot other than context, nature, and substance. And then Barr testified in front of Congress. The first time when there was all sorts of spin. And then he had that ridiculous press conference, an hour before the report came out. That report was in a, I'm sure, in a conference room down the hall from him ready to go, but he wouldn't put it out until after he had his conference where he embarrassed himself and repeated this no-collusion stuff over and over and continued to say things

that were later disproven either by the report or by what we later learned about what Robert Mueller said to him. And to me, number one on the list, Bill Barr has not given anything resembling a coherent explanation or convincing explanation for his decision to just sweep away all the obstruction evidence. But Bill Barr was attorney general before, but in the 90s, but I don't believe he has any actual prosecutorial experience aside from that. I don't think he's ever worked a case or done a trial as a criminal prosecutor. And it shows because any prosecutor and there's the letter out there that got a lot of attention that I signed, I think we're coming up on a thousand now, former federal prosecutors who have signed it, over 900 saying there is

more than enough evidence in the Mueller report to indict the president. Now we get it, we get the DOJ policy exists, can't be indicted, but if he was a normal person, you'd be indicted. And Barr has offered almost nothing to defend his conclusion that there was not enough to charge a destruction. Yeah. And speaking of the whole no collusion campaign, which started a long time ago, it really makes me want to get a hold of those transcripts or at least to talk to or question the translator and some of those meetings with Putin. Because I think Aasha Rangapa was it was who put out a story on

the idea of no collusion and tricking the public into thinking that that that's a thing and it was called reflexive control and it's a Russian active measure. It's a I don't think that Trump could have come up with that by himself and I just I got a I just have this feeling that that that came from somewhere else. Yeah, and here's the thing another way that I think Giuliani and the team were successful in framing this debate beforehand was basically, if you don't have a tape recording of Trump discussing a plan with Putin or a signed contract, it's not going to be collusion.

But I mean, this is the real world. And everyone knows what everyone else says, whether it's on social media, behind depotium, through back channels. And so it's much more complex than just, was there some sort of spoken or written explicit agreement? And I think again, I think going back to the Mueller reports, finding that the Trump campaign knew about and expected to benefit from this. Yeah, so here's a question for you.

The Congress are housed, the Dems in the House and Intel Judiciary Committee. They don't have prosecutorial power. But if they were to look into obstruction of justice, which is I think what Mueller wanted them to do, impeachment is really their only remedy, isn't it? I mean, they could try to make a criminal referral to the Department of Justice, but you're just giving it to bar. Yeah. You're right. I think, first of all, I agree that Mueller absolutely intended to hand this off the Congress. It's all over the report.

There's all sorts of language in there about how it's Congress's constitutional imperative to investigate and hold the President accountable. And I think that's why Mueller sort of pulled up short of making a declaration on whether the President had obstructed justice. We can question him, I think, rightly, on that decision. Mueller sort of pulled up short of making a declaration on whether the president had obstructed justice. We can question him, I think, rightly on that decision, but I think his intent was absolutely for Congress to take this over. Yes, there's really nothing they can do.

Criminal, you're right. The only thing they can do is send it to DOJ, but you might as well just send it down the trash compactor because Bill Barr runs DOJ. But yes, impeachment is an option. I mean, look, there are precedents to impeachment. There are things that come before a vote of the entire House of Representatives, including meaningful fact-finding. And I do think that this far, I feel like I'm just criticizing everybody. But thus far, I don't think Chairman Nathler, Jerry Nathler has done a very good job. Frankly, I think he's getting steamrolled by the White House.

And here we are a month out from the report coming out, and he's really accomplished nothing towards having meaningful fact-finding. And I don't know if it's because he can't figure out how he wants to do it, or he's afraid to do it politically. I know there's a calculation we've all seen. Democratic members of the House out there talking about how well it's not going to be politically popular, it's not going to, not going to voters may not like it. Yeah, we agree.

You know, here at Muller's She wrote, we've been, at first we were like, maybe stay away from it, but we came around when we just figured opening in inquiry just to get some of these hearings on the record and to make it easier for you to get the material that you need through the subpoenas or the grand jury material under rule 6c. If you open up an inquiry, you've set up your judicial proceeding and therefore are just owed that material by that very nature of starting an inquiry. And then you don't have to go full impeachment. So I don't understand why they don't do it.

And Nathalie needs to stand up for Congress's role in a whole of this, right? Congress is a co-equal branch, you're supposed to be. We have a system of checks and balances, and he's just getting, he's just getting defied and ignored left and right. Every subpoena he serves, he's being told to go pound sand. And thus far, he has not brought anything, He's going to have to go to the courts. That's entirely clear, right? He's not going to send the old-fashioned congressional

sergeant arms to throw people in the ceremonial congressional prison. So, and no one cares about contempt anymore, right? I mean, Attorney General Holder was held in contempt. Now, Attorney Joe Barr was held in contempt. Barr's out there cracking jokes on the roast circuit about how he's held in contempt and almost seems to enjoy that status. So no one cares about contempt. Let's just be real.

So what he's going to have to do, what now he's going to have to do if he wants to be taken seriously and if he wants to get anywhere, get into court, get in there quickly, stop getting strung along, stop setting new deadlines. And yes, he has to do some negotiation some good faith negotiation but we all see where it's headed but get into court and back your subpoenas and make your argument and and and by the way on top of that don't wait for the court process to play out it's going to take forever you have to demand expedited judicial ruling and we saw that in DC this week when another committee ended up in front of judge Mehta in DC and he he

to his credit said We're expediting this and the Trump lawyers the White House lawyers objected, but he said no Yeah, I agree. I thought judge made us that it said an excellent example for that and of course Trump's legal argument is that Congress doesn't have oversight of the executive branch, which was blew my mind. Do you Think given everything that you've talked about, Bar, I read your article about Bar's judgment that you wrote for CNN, your opinion, and do you think that it could be possible? I know this is wild speculation,

but we tend to do that here, but we frame it as such. Do you think that maybe the Mueller investigation was ended prematurely? I don't know. I don't think so. Let me say that right up front. It would certainly be early on the list's, I don't think so. Let me say that right up front. It would certainly be

early on the list of questions I would want to ask Robert Mueller if and when he testifies. I think that's very important. The problem is there is no definitive starting line or or or finish line when you run a criminal investigation, especially is sprawling complex one like this one. It's not like running a race. We start hearing you finish, you break the tape here and that's that. Especially in case like this. And we saw all the different tentacles that came out of it, the 12 or 14 different cases that Mueller referred out. I mean, at some point, I think he had to wrap up. There are other other aspects of the case that still need to be brought to fruition. We still have the rider stone trial ahead. I think Manafort's, I think someday we'll learn that Manafort's cooperation was artificially tanked whether whether he was under outside influence or not, but I think that could have broken open a lot of

new doors. I don't, I've not seen any direct evidence that someone said to Mueller, you're done, here's, here's your end by date, and that he resisted. I think he understood that he had a certain shelf life that he had to wrap up. And well, as of today, he's still the special counsel, according to spokesman Peter

Carr. And, you know, I think two months ago, he was supposed to leave the Department of Justice within days. So I, and, you know, I'm not going to pretend that I know why he's still there, but I do think that the holdup in his setting a date for his testimony might have something to do

with the fact that he's still there. Yeah, I wonder what he does all day now. And I am getting my suspicious antenna are raising now on this whole question over Will Mueller testifying Congress. Remember, Trump went from, it's up to the AG to, he shouldn't, should not testify to, back to, I'll leave it up to our quote, very great attorney general.

I mean, he's faunting over this guy who's protecting him. And then Barr says, I'm cool, it's up to Mueller. And now there's reporting out today that actually one of the causes of hold up is the White House's exertion of executive privilege over the whole report. So it turns out that everyone's trying to play it cool and act like, hey, fine with me, but now I was not shocked to learn that it sounds like there is some resistance being put up by some of the powers that beat.

Oh, great. And yeah, I just, that whole, I knew something was up when, when they exerted executive privilege over the entire Mueller report, even though 80% of it had gone public. So I'm sure that Trump's legal team and Trump knows and bar knows that every single day that they delay some sort of important testimony or a release of information to the public is good for them and they'll do, they'll just buy each day as they can. Absolutely right. Look, it's not that long until November 2020, every day that goes by feeds into the argument

that I think, look, we've heard it from Speaker Pelosi and to extent from from NADLAR, which is which is well, it's too close to an election and the solution will be at the ballot box. It is 100% in the White House and Trump's interest every day of delay. And this is why NADLAR has to either, you know, let's make a move or let's drop it. Yes, agreed. All right, former federal and state prosecutor, CNN legal analyst, Ellie Honeig. Ellie, thanks so much for coming on Mueller. She wrote today. Oh, thank you for having me. It was good talking to you. All right, guys, that's our show. Wow, what a crazy week. Yeah, that was a lot of news.

Mm-hmm. And we came back from the webby's this week. So this is like our first none out of town episode or, you know, main episode. So I feel like my body's just now getting back to normal. Everything's settling in finally. Yeah, yeah. It was a busy few days. It really was a lot of episode or you know main episode so I feel like my body's just now getting back to normal Everything settling in finally. Yeah, yeah, it was a busy few days It really was a lot of events. Yes. It was a lot of socializing which was fantastic But it takes a lot more out of you than you realize until you get home and you're like fuck definitely I'm not even an introvert. I felt that shit. Yeah, I didn't know what day was or what time it was for like so many days Yeah, I'm big shout out to all of our people that came out and hung out with us. Definitely. You are an introvert or extroverts or whoever,

because we know it takes time and effort. So thank you. Yeah, those are our people. So cool to meet you all. Yes, definitely. And I can't wait to see you guys in Minneapolis. It's going to be so much fun. Parkway theater, come out to that,

mullershure.com for tickets. You guys have any final thoughts? I can't take anything else. Just love you guys so much. I think we covered it all. Yeah, I can't wait to meet more of you. Yeah, totally and Don't give up please very good this week sucked really bad. Yeah, but like yeah like Julia say we're tired Yeah, but we're not done was that thread was amazing

So it was really good. We did if you get a chance Julia peacock California's 42nd. Yeah, amazing. That's where myrieta is Oh close. Yeah, amazing. That's where Miranda is. Oh, close. Yeah. Wow. And so I feel that energy. Yeah. We need to get that Republican incumbent, Calvert out. Definitely.

So everyone check her out and follow her. And she's an amazing example and brave woman running. Yes. And they're for Congress. Totally. And there's like other things in your community you can do to that aren't even necessarily, you know, race oriented as in political race. Like you could contribute to your local, you know, K PBS, what that's what it is for us like your local NPR station. Just there's so many things you could do just to promote truth right now. Absolutely.

Yep. So get out there do it. And if you need to rest, rest, because you can't, I should take that advice. No, but very good advice. You can't just keep going all day every day. It's true. It's true. No, we're all good people. We all have good intentions, but yeah, take care of yourself. You can keep up the fight.

Yes. And voice your opinions also. Yes. That all of us have money, so we can do it with our words. That's true. Yeah. Or, you know, ask somebody to do it for you, if you're not a vocal person. Yes.

But there's so many people, this community, everybody I've met, everyone's so helpful and so willing to go out on the limb for you and so willing to do things to help and to fill in the blanks where they need to be filled in. So, and I've never, I've been an activist for decades and I've never seen a community this strong before. It's special. It's very special. So thank you guys, and again, take care of yourselves, take care of each other. I've been AG. I've been Julie Sedganson. I've been Jordan Coburn. And this is Mullershey wrote. Road. Mollershi Road is produced and engineered by AG with editing and logo design by Jolissa

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