Jack - MSW Book Club -Too Much and Never Enough - Episode 3 - Chapters 5, 6 & 7

Episode Date: June 17, 2021

AG and DG are getting into the juicy middle of Mary Trump's book, Too Much and Never Enough.Follow Mary L. Trump on Twitterhttps://twitter.com/MaryLTrumpPromo code:helixsleep.com/bookclub for 2 free pillows and up to $200 off your mattress purchase

M. The PASS-W. Media. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what the opposition is. I'm not aware of all of all any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time of truth in that campaign, and I didn't have enough communications at the Russians. One way I have to get involved with Putin for having nothing to do with Putin, I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to the MSW Book Club.

I'm your host, A.G. and I am joined today by the incomparable Dana Goldberg. Hi, Dana. How are you? I'm good, A.G. Another week has gone by. We're still alive. Apparently Trump has read Woodworks book in one night. I don't believe it.

But we're getting through it. It's insane. It's insane. Yesterday he said he read it last night and today he said he read it last night. So he read it twice. In between his eight hours of watching Fox and Friends, and all the other shows, I believe it.

I totally believe it. I wish we could get him to read the president's daily brief. That would be better. Wouldn't that be nice? Oh, Jesus Christ. I never came across my desk. Fuck off. Okay, let's.

Ah. Fuck off. So today, we're covering some reasons why he does that and we're covering chapters 5 through 7 of Mary Trump's book too much and never enough. This is an incredible book. I hope you're enjoying it. Today we start with part 2 called the wrong side of the tracks and we're going to be going through again like I said chapters 5 through 7 and chapter 5 is called grounded so I'm excited to dive in. Let's do it. All right so this chapter opens with an example of Donald's super suave flirting style, super flirting stylings of one Donald J. Trump and his his MO is shitting on a woman until she

tells him to fuck off. I think that's pretty much the way that he operates. Which is interesting that he used to stop and now he doesn't anymore. Go ahead. Well, yeah, and it didn't take too long, right? So Donald saw one of Freddie's friends girlfriends washing a car in her in the driveway her driveway and approached her And she mentioned she had gone to school close to the New York military Academy where Donald went Though he was at by and by this time he was commuting back and forth to Fordham University And he said I'm so disappointed you went to that school Though he was, by this time, he was commuting back and forth to Fordham University. And he said, I'm so disappointed you went to that school. She said, good line Donald.

And she said, who are you to be disappointed in me? And then that ended the conversation. I can't understand why. Oh, you're such a piece of shit. I just want to go out some time? I've had that. I've had that approach several times. It doesn't, doesn't work.

So I think, yeah, I think you as a straight woman have to do with that way more than I do as a lesbian. I'm not even sure what pipelines are other than like nice tool belt, where you're crocs for like, I have no idea what lesbian say to each other. Meet you at home depot at 5 p.m. I'm so disappointed that those are the golf clubs you've chosen. Yeah, basically.

So yeah, no, it's like, yeah, I've had, like, we had this one guy who was listened to the podcast, listened to a lot of the podcast and said, you know, you're a bitch, Fuck you in the heart. And then like DM to me and said, you want to go to coffee sometime? And I'm like, oh my God. Yeah, I got a DM that was someone that was like, I hope you I had a dream that you woke up with a different sexually orientation.

And I had a chance and I obviously didn't respond to that. And then like a month later, he's like, thanks for the response. I was like, oh my God, you're the kind of guy that's like smile. And I'm supposed to respond. And then I didn't respond to that. And then I got a, are you a Bernie bro? guy that's like smile and I'm supposed to respond and then I didn't respond to that And then I got a are you a Bernie bro? I'm like okay, I'm gonna block you. I can't even deal with you right now That happens a lot you get the hello beautiful and then a day later. Hello And then like the next day you'll get like 10. Hi, are you saying what are you doing? And then they're like whatever fat bitch

Or you know, you're just like okay, whoa that escalated quickly. Thank you I'm glad she ended this conversation with Donald And Mary Mary Trump says quote Donald's idea of flirting was to insult her and then acts superior It struck her as juvenile as if he were a second grader who expressed his affection for a girl by pulling her hair And this reminds me of an exchange Trump had with Anderson Cooper, right? Where Anderson Cooper said, I'll do respect. That's the response of a second grader and Trump replied, well, I didn't start it. Oh my god.

What? You're the puppet. You're the puppet. You're the puppet. You're up next to Tetherball, Donald, your go. So American continues on with Trump wanting to take Freddie's place at his dad's right hand, right? And so Trump wanted to degree commensurate

with his new career path. And he set his sights on the Wharton School at University of Pennsylvania. But he is so stupid. Apparently he had to hire a smart kid named Joe Shapiro to take his SATs for him. That was one of the big things in the book that all the media was covering, but I was like, and then there were tapes. Anyway, keep going. Yeah, that's right because Mary released the Trumps the tapes of her interview with Mary Ann, Donald's sister, and she's the one who said that.

Now, he also, he also hedged his bets by asking his brother Freddie to put in a good word for him with his friend, James Nolan, who worked in UPEN's admissions office. Quote, Freddie was happy to help, but had all tearier motives. He didn't like to be around his increasingly and sufferable younger sibling. Shocking.

And for the way he treated Freddie, his whole life, like what an asshole. Like, I need a favor though. I'd like you to do me a favor though. And I think a lot of this next few chapters actually goes to Freddy's character. And we see like no matter what Donald has do she is he got, he still tried to be a good big brother.

He really did. Yeah, yeah. And like he cared a lot about the family, right? And yeah, we will definitely get into that. So continuing on here, we're onto steeple chase. And this is where we left. This was sort of the cliffhanger in the last episode. We left off discussing at the end of that one.

Fred Trump purchased steeple chase park for 2.5 million in July of 1965. And after a year, they were still battling zoning and public opposition. Freddie, who had just returned to a Trump management, was still being treated like shit and thought, if he could deliver steeple chase, he would win over his asshole father, right? So that was sort of like what he had set his sights on, like I can mean. But Fred Sr. was counting on all of his political buddies to assist with steeple chase. But in the mid-60s his connections were losing power. He knew he would not get the zoning, but he put Freddie in charge of it anyway.

So the local residents tried to have steeple chase declared a landmark to protect it. So Fred Sr. hosted an event to celebrate the demolition, celebrate the demolition of the park. So he could destroy what the community was trying to save before landmark status could be secured. He had Freddie give a press conference to announce it, giving him the honor of being the public face of the steeple-taste controversy. And this event, dude, I cannot even like, I just can't even, it was a shit show. Spectators could buy bricks to throw through an iconic window, which is funny that they can throw bricks and not soup cans.

I thought bricks were super heavy, Allison. Bags, bags of soup. I guess bricks have gotten heavier. Bricks have gotten lighter. No, they've gotten heavier. Okay. Well, as we'll remember from a previous chapter, he used the one cent bricks instead of the five cent bricks, so they were probably.

True. They probably were different ways they were anyway if it belonged to a short they were unable to secure the zoning change and had to back out a development and that was the last time Fred would pursue an original construction project which made me think of you know Donald's never really built anything he just puts his name on shit right yeah so Fred senior refused to accept responsibility and blamed Freddie for the failed project And this is likely why he put him in charge of it in the first place, right like a fall guy

His own son and there are so many examples of Donald doing this exact same thing and sadly Freddie would blame himself as well Yeah, just more internalization This guy my heart my heart goes out to him to the entire book. Yeah, same. And during the steeple chase debacle, Donald would visit home frequently from UPEN, which he sucked at because he wasn't the big man on campus anymore. And Donald did a lot of armchair quarterbacking on the deal, the steeple chase deal, joining Fred in piling on on Freddie for the project's failure, even though it was the fault of Fred senior being a fucking idiot. But don't yeah, I like that. I think his demolition celebration probably is what did the project in?

Oh my god. But Donald would say things like maybe you could have kept your head in the game if you didn't fly out to Montauk every weekend. And what he is referring to is that, you know, Freddie, there was an airstrip by Montauk and during this project, he was living to is that, you know, Freddie, there was an air strip by Montalk and during this project, he was living out by it and during, you know, when in his off-time, he would fly out to, fly out to Montalk to be with his friends. And so that's why they were given him shit about that. They hated that he flew planes. Like they hated it. Just so crazy.

I mean, because especially when we talked about this in the last couple of episodes, it was such a admirable career path at that time. Everyone wanted to be a TWA pilot. I mean, you were celebrity. Yeah, but it's like the Trump family didn't want you to work. Trump, the Trump family, it just looks down upon. Oh, you're doing that yourself.

Why don't you have your own pilot? Ugh, it's so gross. It's so gross. And I remember when Donald tried to make his pilot like the head of the FAA and and but that guy had too many like accidents and problems and he was a terrible, terrible pilot. And it happens when your landings and your takeoffs don't actually equal out. Yeah. And so, you know, Donald's like you should have kept your head in the game or whatever and stopped flying out to see your friends, to which Fred told Fredy to get rid of his

plane because that, because apparently Fred didn't know Freddy had that other plane. And so Fred sold it the following week. Fredy did. Excuse me. And soon thereafter, Fredy got sick. It started when they were living in a Trump building. Fred Trump building. it was so shitty that the wall around the AC unit deteriorated

due to moisture and the outside air would get in and the winter it's freezing. And New Year's, 1967, Freddie and Linda drove out to Montauk and the wind and the rain to celebrate with friends, but the car battery died, so Freddie was out there soaked to the bone trying to get the car started. And that combined with, you know, when they got home, they got home to the freezing air

coming into the apartment, made him sick. So they called the superintendent who didn't do anything. So they called Fred. And Linda, you know, Freddie's wife begged him to do something. This Fred's building and he did not, he wouldn't. Linda then had to leave because her mother had a stroke and while she was gone, Gam called her, that's Fred's wife, Gam called her,

tell her Freddie was in the hospital. Now, he eventually made it home, but then Linda got a call from her father saying her mom was doing better, the one who had the stroke, but was just tired of it all, work in the stress and we just want to end it all. And Linda was afraid they might commit suicide or die by suicide.

So she told Freddie. And Freddie said, don't worry. And Freddie called her parents, his father in law and told him, don't worry about it. Quit your job. I got this. Take care of mom. Money is not an issue. And Freddie and Linda started looking for houses at that point, but were rejected for a mortgage,

which was weird because Freddie had been working at the Trump management company for six years by that point. Mary in the book says that Fred may have Fred, senior may have blocked that mortgage, trapping her family in the shithole and Jamaica Queen. I do not doubt it. He wants them to be at his every, yeah, at his every whim. I am sure that he blocked that mortgage. There's no other explanation for it.

Her dad was worth a lot of money at that time. In the sense of the percentages he owned in different buildings. There's no reason he shouldn't have gotten the mortgage. Yeah, it's bananas. And yeah, you're right. I think it's a control thing. And when summer came, they rented the cottage

that they always rent in Montauk and Freddie bought a boat and another plane. And he planned to charter people and start his own business. But by September, his drinking had gotten a lot worse, so he sold the boat and he sold the plane. And Mary says, at 29 years old, my father was running out of things to lose. And the next chapter actually gets even into more of this. So we're going to hop into chapter 6, which is called a zero-sum game.

Now, this chapter actually starts off with a horrifying scene that Mary witnessed, and this was of her father laughing while he was aiming a rifle at her mother. And as she was sitting on the bed, literally shielding herself with one hand, and sort of leaning with her other arm. And when her mom became more frightened, her dad seemed to become more amused by the situation, which for Mary to witness that, I think she was five, I think her younger brother was two in the other room. So even though Mary's mom, she actually was able to get the two kids to safety, eventually her father was able

to track them down. But what's crazy is that he didn't remember the night before. He, which is interesting because then he swore it would never happen again, which I find a very strange thing to say when you don't remember what happened. But at this point, their marriage basically just kept going downhill. Yeah, it's like, I don't remember what happened, but whatever it was won't happen again. It's just... It's such a strange thing to say to somebody. Yeah, I'm sorry for what I did.

What did you do? I don't know, but I'm sorry for what I did. So we also learned in this chapter, basically, another one of Fred's children, Mary Ann, who is Mary's aunt. She gave up her plans to get a PhD for marriage, which is so interesting how these, the kids keep giving things up, especially the women. She didn't want to be deemed as an old maid by her family, and that included

Freddie. And what it strikes me that like even though he was such a good man in his worst of times, this entire family seems to be very good at belittling each other, which by no doubt was was learned from Fred Sr. I'm sure they got it from his father. Oh yeah. So she also thought she was disappointing her parents because she was gonna convert to Catholicism for her marriage. But this is really interesting. So when she told Fred that she wanted to convert,

his response was, Mariana couldn't care less, you're gonna be his wife. And so I was thinking, wow, when Fred gives his children away, like he literally really gives this children away. Yeah, and here's a cow and two chickens and my dog. And take her away, honey, show him your teeth. Aren't they purgated? She's so purty.

It's just, it's, my heart goes, Mary, it's interesting because Mary actually described Mary as husband. This kind of made me laugh, but in a sad way. Mary said that Mary as husband, David, she basically described him as Ralph Graham, and without the charm, kindness, or a city job with benefits. My God. I know. It basically, so this guy is, as the next big thing continued to fail, so did his drinking. His drinking began. So David, Mary Ann's husband also starts drinking. This seems to be just a recurring theme

within this family and the people they marry. What's really interesting to me is, like in this chapter, it's really clear that the three oldest, despite having trusts because they clearly had trust funds, seemed to be either financially dependent on their spouses, most of the females, or unable to hold on to anything of value. I mean, Freddie lost the plane and the cars and everything. And what's so, like, these three children, they've been trained not to ask for anything. And I'm assuming Fred and Mary's assuming Fred probably controlled the trusts. So they were trapped in their circumstances, all three of the oldest children. And basically what they learned was asking for anything, meant you were weak or greedy.

And of course, the exception to this rule is Donald, which I find very, very interesting. Because he now has turned into that person. You don't ask for anything, it makes you look weak. You pretend that you have everything you need. It's interesting how that showed up later in his life. But Yeah, it's like this, it's like this disgusting, horrible, familial king of the mountain and whoever wins the game gets to be the new asshole. That's really well put actually. And Donald likes to trip people and have watched them roll down the

mountain and then laugh. That's what he does. Yeah, I do this with it. When I eat M&M's, I take two, the first two M&M's and I push them together and the one that cracks gets eaten. And then I pull out another M&M and I push them together and the one that cracks gets eaten. And then at the end, I have the supreme M&M and I eat that one too to be famous. I was about to make fun of you until I realized I do the same thing with Skittles. And then I was like, Dana, shut your mouth. Oh, it's great. Oh my god. Hey everybody, it's A.G. in this episode of the MSW Book Club with Mary Trump's book is brought

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Mary Ann actually figured out a way to get help from her mother, which is really interesting without raising suspicion. Obviously, because asking anything from her father, he was going to ignore her. So Mary Ann started asking for change for the laundry from her mom from GAM. Now, Fred didn't care what was happening with Mary Ann after she was married. Like I said, when he gives his kids away, he gives them away. So she wasn't, she wasn't a concern anymore, basically.

But Gam, who in the book you can tell just really has a kind heart. She knew and did what she could to help her daughter. So the three eldest were so afraid of their father that it just accepted their circumstances for what they were. This is really interesting. When I had the interview with Mary on my podcast,

I had said that I thought, and listeners, just give me a second, I said I thought maybe Ivanka had something left that was salvageable in her self, and Mary Trump started laughing. She said, are you fucking kidding me? She is my grandfather. Ivanka is my grandfather. Those three children are so indebted to their father because they've earned nothing on their own.

They have none of this they've done on their own. So it's actually the same thing. The three eldest in the in the generation before were also afraid because they were basically at the whim of their father too. It's really interesting how this passed on generationally. Well, and we all wanted that too, right? Early on before we knew the Trumps, New Yorkers different, right? But before we kind of all knew the kids and what they were about, you know, I think a lot of women, especially,

were like holding out hope that Ivanka could be the woman and talk some sense. Yeah. But that faded so fast, you know. It really did. I mean, she actually, she solidified that for me. I'll never question it again, and now I see it. I actually see how diabolically evil Ivanka is. It's crazy. Oh, God. We need to get them out of the White House. Okay. So basically after it was clear that David, Mary Ann's husband wasn't going to be able to find employment. Mary Ann finally went to her father, Fred, and he did give David a job in Trump management

as a parking lot attendant. So now, again, they are at the whim of Fred's senior. So now we get taken back to Donald. When he graduated from UPEN, which, as we said, someone else took his test to get in, he immediately started working for the Trump management. And not surprising, he got more perks in respect from day one than Freddie

did during his tired time. So Donald was made VP of several companies that he did nothing for, shocking. We still see that happening now. And he was paid consulting fees and putting charge of banking, which is very interesting. So Mary explains that this was done specifically to put Freddie in his place and it solidified Donald's position as a parent.

So that's when it started getting even worse. This is the time Donald and Fred realized that Donald had a taste for what they called the senior side of dealing with contractors in the power structure of the New York real estate. So now they start to take advantage of these, I think. I don't want to say qualities, but attributes of Donald. I don't think he has any qualities. It seemed Donald and Fred achieved the ease of equals, and that's something that Freddie would never have with his father. I mean, that was clear. So he wasn't set up to have it, even if he wanted him to be his predecessor. He was continually undermined. Yeah, he was literally set up to have it, even if he wanted him to be his predecessor.

He was continually undermined. Yeah, he was literally set up to fail. Here, you're in charge of steeple chase that I know I can never get the zoning for. Absolutely. And it made me make a happen, you know. And the thing was, the reason that I think they were at odds is because Freddie believed that there were things

that were more important in the world than money. I mean, he believed that expertise, dedication, loyalty, all of those things were very important to him because he was sort of more involved in organizations that, you know, put weight on those. Now Donald, on the other hand, he was a provincial narrow and egotistical, not shocking. We see that every single day, but what's horrifying is that this is the time that Fred understood and was able to turn his son's unlikable traits into an advantage. So now we see all these horrible things about Donald, that Fred's gonna take advantage of.

So basically Donald's goal was to replace Freddie in the business anyway, and he was clearly succeeding at this point. Freddie still tried to be a good brother, which I talked about earlier. He still included Donald in these social things, which with his friends, and none of them went well, Allison, like every single time.

And Mary makes it very clear, it's probably because Donald has no sense of humor, and he's completely off-putting, which we have seen. I mean, his smile alone is actually terrifying. Yeah, so this, tensions at the time at the office, they had started getting worse. But like I said, Freddie still invited Donald to social events.

And as these did not go well every time, basically in every social event, we just hear about what a douchebag Donald is at every turn with women, with his friends, everything. And it's amazing that Fred still opened his arms. I just blows my mind. Yeah. So back at home, now we're back to Mary's parents.

The marriage of Mary's parents was getting a lot worse So her dad Freddie was becoming more cruel which breaks my heart It's just I think when you're in and in dated by it year after year in your life I don't know how you don't actually let it get to you In 1970 her mom asked her dad to leave and she actually called Fred senior. This is interesting She called Fred senior to change the locks on the apartment. He did immediately. So they can't get heat. They can't get the AC fixed but they can change the locks to cook Freddy out. Exactly. And Mary's dad, she said

their dad never lived with him again. So at this point Mary's mother turned to a family lawyer. It's just they're so all sketchy. And we thought that he could trust this guy, which is interesting. She thought that this guy had been on her side to help with the divorce, but we quickly learn that his loyalty is always live with Fred Sr. Not surprising. Alison, the divorce agreement was so bad.

Mary's mom basically ended up getting like $600 a month. And that was it. I mean, that was going to change. I mean, that was right when the divorce happened. So her dad and her dad were going to pay for, yeah. And at this time, her dad was worth a lot of money. He had not been written out of the will yet. We have to remember that.

So he was worth millions. Mary's dad agreed to pay for private school and college, but basically not much more for the kids. And at this time it was, you know, in the court's custody, it was figured out a little bit later, but obviously they have a lot of pull. So the custody, even though Mary's mom got full custody of them, Freddie was basically allowed to see the kids anytime he wanted, which is not shocking. You know, I think at this point, you know, when you become entitled, it seems to run in the family and when you're the worst of who you are, those sorts of things just start to come out. So, um, basically the chapter ends with us taking

this back to steeple chase. We already talked about it in chapter five, but this chapter ends steeple chase, which is permanently blocked at this point in 1969, and eventually the city purchased the land back from Fred. Now, we're not surprisingly, Fred walked away with a $1.3 million profit because he took such advantage of the circumstances of this, and he did nothing. All he did was ruin a beloved city landmark, and of course, who was put in charge of this entire interaction? Freddie. So Freddie was left with the blame of all of this and it just continues to build. Yeah and that's that's the mo of Donald as well right? Every failure, he's rewarded for every failure. No consequence. Here in this case

1.3 million and the blame goes to someone else. Every single time. It's incredible. And Donald's watching from his dad, he's learning, we can see it in every aspect of his presidency. Yeah. Wow. It does it. And you know, when I had Mary on our podcast, we talked about these three lines from, you know, and connecting the dots from how it was, how his father was, and how he is, and things that he's doing now. And it's just, it's the lines are so clear, you know? Anyway, we're going on to Chapter 7. This is the final chapter of this episode.

The chapter is called Parallel Lines, and it goes a little bit deeper into what we were discussing in Chapter 6. And it starts to dive into the grooming of Donald by Fred, right? And then, of course, a few last-ditch efforts by Freddie to break free from the Trump management company, where by now he had spent 11 years. But despite that, yeah, 11 years. And yeah, and Fred promoted Donald, like you said, who was only 24 at the time and started pouring money into Donald's image, you know, again, like you said in chapter six, using his shit holiness to, for as an advantage.

And he admits that he knows Donald's not good at business, but he's good with the press and the cameras. He knows this? Yeah, it was all smoking mirrors though, in hopes of finally breaking, because he wanted to break into the Manhattan real estate market. Right, that was where the big money was. Yeah, and just like you said, Mary says, quote, as a business move promoting Donald was pointless, the main purpose of the promotion was to punish and shame Freddie. And she continues by saying,

besides being driven around Manhattan by a chauffeur who salary his father company paid, and a Cadillac his father company, his father's company leased, to scope out properties. Donald's job description seemed to have included lying about his accomplishments and allegedly refusing to rent apartments to black people which would become the subject of a Justice Department lawsuit accusing Fred and Donald of discrimination. And Alison and Mary went a step further in the interview and I said this because I asked her about this and she said

that basically her family called them colors. Oh God. And now I was like, oh God. Oh yeah. Yeah. And Dishvazza, we'll get into that. Yeah. The German German derogatory term. Fred started continuing using government subsidies to fund projects and letting Donald

take the profits and the credit So like he'd get a government subsidy to develop something or you know You know license something and then sell it or make a bunch of money off of it Give Donald the profits spend the money on Donald or give Donald the profits and give Donald the credit So that he could be pumped up as some real estate mogul falsely to the press. And you know, we learned, and we'll get into this later in the book, we learned in 2018 from New York Times reporting because of Mary Trump's ability to hand over a bunch of financial documents, that he sucks at business and he has no money and he stole it all and

it's like, he's terrible, terrible, terrible. And yet he has this image and the media fed it and so did I. I blame, oh, I blame Mark Barnett for so much of this, so much of this. The production of the, the, the, the, the, oh, we do. I don't know if they would do anything though. I mean, I don't mean to tangle, I don't even know if the tapes would do anything at this point

I feel like the virus and his own words saying that he knew like just replay this stuff over and over I feel like he's slipping. I don't even think it tape. I think he could actively be raping a woman on tape And they would somehow figure out how to blame the female. I mean, let's be honest. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, you're right and All of these traits are so just so well documented by Mary in this book, because at this point, Freddie decided the only way for him to retain any self respect was to leave Trump management after 11 years.

So in, you know, Mary's mom wanted out, and of course the $600 a month thing happened. But anyway, Freddie's first apartment by himself was a studio in sunny side queens. He was 32. It was the first time he lived on his own. That line hit me hard. Yeah.

He was 32-year-old man. It was the first time he lived on his own. He went from his parents' house right in with Mary. Yeah. And he had a bunch of small pets, like lizards and ducks and shit, reminds me of like Joey and Chandler, on friends. Ha-ha. Anyway, we get to the part now of the chapter where Freddie asks his dad for help with his

drinking. And this is one of the big moments, this is one of the big, big moments in the book for me personally. And I talk to Mary about this when I interviewed her for the daily beans because Freddie sat across from Fred and said, I need to beat this dad. I don't think I can do this by myself. In fact, I know I can't, right? And instead of saying, how can I help? Fred says, what do you want from me? And this is such a defining moment in the transactional shitty style of Fred and Donald.

It immediately stood out to me as the choice we face in this election in just 49 days. Biden is a how can I help guy and Donald is a what do you want from me guy? Is he a what do you want from me guy or is he I know you need something from me like I feel you know what I mean yeah or I'd like you to do me a favor though guy yeah it's the quid pro quo. For sure, for sure. Right, because once you start getting into Manhattan real estate, you get into with the Roy Cone who will talk about in a minute and God, he start getting mobbed up. Then it's not what he want for me. It's what can you do for me? What can I do for you? I do my Marlon Brando. I don't know what that sound was. I'm like no, that was a little pat from us and Ellen Marlin Brando at the same time.

She was like, who the fuck was that? I love Julia sweetie. By the way, I've had shots with her. She listens to the podcast. She's wonderful. Oh my God, I'm jealous. She is so good in working progress. Anyway, she's incredible. She's incredible, incredible, funny, funny woman. Anyway, Freddie, then either I guess went on vacation or to rehab. It's not really clarified in the book.

Although it is mentioned, we weren't sure where he got back from. But when he returned, he moved into Fred and Gams Attic. There was a temporary thing until Fred told him that there was a vacancy at his sunny side Queen's building. And as he was getting ready to move there, Maryanne started going to Hofstra and her new found independence pissed off her husband who threw their 13 year old son out of the house. So Maryanne and the kid left and went to a game and Fred's and her ex apparently cleaned out their savings account in Skip Town. There was one tiny little part in this right where you spoke in this chapter that basically

when he moved into the attic, Mary made a point that those two trucks, the tractor, the trucks were still there that she had taken away from Freddie and Donald when they were younger because Donald was tormenting his brother. They were still in the attic when her dad moved in as an adult. That's so bananas. It's so bananas.

Yeah. And there's another interesting quote that stood out to me in this chapter. There's a lot in this chapter, but this one stood out to me. Quote, when the whole family was together, we spent most of our time in the library, a room without books until Donald's ghost written art of the deal was published, the bookshelves were used instead to display wedding photos and portraits. Early signs of Trump's allergy to reading

and tension for photos of himself. Do you remember when you used charity money to buy a giant painting of himself or when you made a fake used charity money to buy a giant painting of himself or when he made a fake time magazine issue with this picture on the cover? No. So yeah, no books, just pictures of themselves. That speaks volumes to me. Oh, the self-aggrandizing with him is just insane.

I mean, we learn this from even Cohen's book that he hired a fake Obama to fire him in his office. The man's nuts. He's absolutely DSM-5 diagnosively crazy. Yeah, yeah. Malignant narcissists and it's gross. In fact, I just had the writer and producer or writer and director of the movie unfit on which has multiple super professional, credible psychologists saying, yeah, there's something really wrong with this. And even though the Goldwater Rule says we couldn't, we shouldn't diagnose politicians, you know, without seeing them, there's also the other duty, duty to warn rule, do know

harm where, do know harm. If you know Jim Jordan that somebody's harming somebody, you have your mandatory reporter, you have to tell people. So that's sort of where this group of psychologists is coming from. I mean, when I was talking to Mary, she had such a good quote, I'm not going to do it verbatim, but it was basically like we had to see the video of Hillary Clinton, semiemi-fainting because it was a hundred degrees out. She had pneumonia.

We had to see that video a billion times but we can't talk about someone's severe personality disorders that are putting all of us in danger on a day-to-day basis. Come on. Yeah. 200,000 of us are dead. Yeah. Mary goes on here to talk about her Uncle Rob,

who wasn't much older than they were. He used to play with them actually. They would play soccer a lot. And when they were at Gam's house, and when Donald was at the house, they would throw a baseball. And here's this quote, too, quote, when I did manage to catch the ball, he threw at me. The report of it against my leather glove reverberated off the brick retaining wall like a shot.

Even with little kids, Donald had to be the winner. He's a fucking bully. Yeah, he's definitely a fucking bully. Now, Mary talks a little business on page 98 here saying Fred Senior created Midland Associates in the 60s. That was to benefit his kids each giving them 15%. But Mary says she doesn't know if her dad realized he owned part of this building. Just like you were talking about in the previous chapter Dana, Mary says, she doesn't know if her dad realized he owned part of this building.

Just like you were talking about in the previous chapter, Dana, you know, they didn't have access to any of this money. And but the express purpose of creating this fund was to basically defraud the IRS. Freddie's cut was worth about $2.2 million in today's dollars. But either Freddie's access to the money had been blocked or cut off. And he was at his father's mercy That this these this whole section has been kind of leading us up to this point of really trying to drive home and it help us Understand that these are rich kids, but they were not rich kids. Yeah, and Fred downplayed how much their entire

His his worth was anyway. I mean he was worth Probably 30 times the amount. I think Mary said that he was, you know, telling the banks and the IRS, which is so interesting because then Donald flips it. And Donald says he's worth much more than he is to get the loans. It's interesting how that flipped in the script as Donald got older. Yeah, and it's interesting how the Manhattan District Attorney is investigating the Trump Organization for deflating their assets and inflating their assets to defraud the IRS and insurance companies. It brings me so much joy.

How many lawsuits are happening behind closed doors in New York? I have to remember that or I will lose my mind. Those are criminal charges. That's a criminal grand jury, too. And they're just waiting for those Mazar's documents. He's had the Deutsche Bank documents for a year now. And like they could indict him and Eric and Donald and Ivanka and the Trump Organization and Weiselberg

because there's no office illegal council memo saying you can't indict a president that applies to the Manhattan District Attorney's Office. And for those of you that got scared when Cohen said that he was going to resign, have Pence become president, parted him. You can't pardon him for state crimes. In walks the New York district turning the AG and let's just have the post office arrest all of them because that would be hilarious. Even the FBI send the post office. All right. Yes. Well enough justice,

porn. Let's head back over here to the we do do that. We want you to cigarette, keep going. I know. Yeah. Well, like a film noir. Whoa, whoa. Anyway, Mary doesn't say, oh, okay. So here's the thing. And this is, I'm trying to still figure this out.

Maybe we'll have to ask Mary at some point. But one day, Donald came to visit and tried to get Freddie to sign some stuff and take the paperwork back to Brooklyn to Fred Sr. Right? And drive it out to Brooklyn. So Freddie was like, I'll sign it, you take it. And Trump was like, I can't amon my way to the city to look at some properties that are in foreclosure. It's fantastic. It's a fantastic time to take advantage of losers who bought at the height of the market. So again, foreclosing on families who, you know, just taking advantage of people's misfortune and reveling in it. So Freddie and Mary drove the papers down to Fred's office and they described the Trump Management office a little bit. And Mary doesn't say here what the paperwork was for. I cannot find

the answer in the book. So. Oh yeah, that's interesting. We can add, maybe we'll have a chance. It's page 99. If you all can find it, I wasn't able to find it. I'm... Which sounds weird, because it's there all of there in black and white. But she pivots, because she pivots to the lawsuit, right? She pivots the 1973 Department of Justice Civil Rights Division suit,

where they sued Donald and Fred for violating the 1968 Fair Housing Act by refusing to rent to Dishvard so as Fred would put it. That's the derogatory term for black people. And Roy Cohn offered to help quote like many men of his vicious temperament and with his influential connections Cohn was subject to no rules embraced by a certain segment of the New York elite and hired by a diverse pool of clients. And this just reads like a list of people I want to fucking invite invite to a party.

Doesn't it? Oh my god. His clients include Rupert Murdoch, John Gotti, Alan Dershowitz. I kept my underwear on. Sorry, I kept my underwear on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, Dershowitz, yeah. He's got a new podcast called the Dersho

Like the and I'm like DIRR Okay, yeah, the Dersho I'm like keep your underwear on can't wait to out chart you you piece of shit Anyway, and so Alan Dersho it's and the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New York So basically if you were into molesting children, uh, yeah, the Roy Cohn represented you, uh, and Cohn entered private practice, he became very rich and powerful. And Cohn recommended Trump file a counter suit for $100 million over false and misleading statements. This is such the way this administration works. A, a, a, a pretend cow talked shit about Devon Nunes on Twitter and he turns around and soes them for $200 million, you know, I mean It's the same thing as douche what's going after CNN right now. Yeah, so in him for a hundred million for making him look like a bad human

I'm like you did that all on your own my friends. Yeah, you don't need CNN to look like a douche So yeah, $100 million false misleading statements the publicity landed Donald Donald on the front page, right, where he wanted to be and the Trumps settled. So this is their MO, right? They're you're gonna sue us. I'm gonna sue you for an exorbitant amount of money and we'll settle for somewhere less. He does this all the time when he negotiates with with stuff. He'll be like, I'm gonna get $100 million for these chicklets. And then someone's like, I'll give you a 20. Okay, and now you got 20 bucks for a fucking thing of chocolates, you know? So there was no admission of wrongdoing in this case, but they did have to change their rental practices and the Trumps and Cohn call it a W.

They call it a win, just for the press. For the press they got alone. And the next few pages here are dedicated to Donald quote, using his father's money to create his image as a burgeoning master of the universe. That's phrase frightens me. Fred saw his own son's fake success as his success. And Donald started thinking of finally, again, breaking into the manhattan real estate market, quote, when things turned south in the late 80s, Fred couldn't no longer separate himself from his son's brutal ineptitude. The father had no choice but to stay invested. His monster had been set free.

All he could do was mitigate the damage, keep the cash flowing, and find someone else to blame. Again, she's so familiar. Meanwhile, Freddie was getting worse. He had a new girlfriend, Johanna, who Mary didn't like. Mary illustrates how bad it had gotten with her father's drinking, with a story about how she at eight years old had gone to the bank with her mom. And she was telling her dad and Joanna about it, saying she took some deposit slips and pretended to fill them out. And Freddie

got really mad. He'd been drinking. And Joanna like took Freddie's hand and said, Freddie, it's nothing. And he replied, what do you mean it's nothing? This is really God damn serious. And like that scared Mary because he said, he said God damn, right? And at that point both Johanna and Mary says, at that point both Johanna and I knew there was no talking him down. He was drunk and trapped in some old narrative. I tried to explain it to him, to study him, but he was too far gone and I was only eight. And that is like pulled and I fow to my heart because I've as an adult have had to deal with people who, you know, alcoholics, people who abuse alcohol. And I understand that trying to explain things and trying to study people and they're just, and like she said, trapped in some old narrative.

And that is the best way I can think to put that, but she was eight years old, dude. I mean, when the child becomes the adult and you see it so often with people that have drinking problems when their children have to, you know, pick them up under age from a bar, like your kids 15 and they learned how to drive because they're coming to get you in the country, you know, it's just, that's crazy. Yeah, so this chapter concludes by saying, you know, in the summer of 1975 or so, Freddie announced to his family, you know, his ex-wife and his daughter that he was moving to West Palm Beach. I'm moving to West Palm Beach, I'm going to get a boat, and he seemed happy and confident. And the quote here at the end for Mary is, all of us knew it was the right decision and for the first time in a long time, a very long time, we felt hope. And that's how this chapter ends.

So I just, I mean, there's so much in this book. I think about Mary and obviously getting to know her as you did on a more personal level during the interviews and just the respect and adoration I have for her knowing that she went through this and her father went through this and I mean, we're only halfway through. Like this shit keeps on going. So strap in everybody. We're doing this. Yeah, and it's and it as the book goes on and I think Mary is so good at this. She's just such a skilled and talented writer and she knows how people's minds work and how they react to stuff. She sort of eases us into it, you know, but it does

get so, so intense and it will continue to get more intense. So like Dana said, strap in. Yeah, just know though, as this continues, and if you haven't read it, you need to get all this. But if you're just falling along with us, know that there is some, one of the things I do love about Mary and Alice, I'm sure you notice this too. She has a biting subtle humor that comes out in her book and we'll be able to see some of those lines in the coming chapters where you're like,

there's the comic relief I needed. She slips it right in, right? We're about to go to her hair out. She's so funny, and I knew it when she she said I went to the Trump hotel and pulled out the Trump wine and down my Trump throat until I hit my Trump brain and I'm like I love this woman already. She's fantastic and she escaped the Trump family with a sense of humor. And it got lesser. You know and the ability to be your own person.

And it's just pretty incredible. She's an incredible person. And so definitely read the book if you're not. But thank you for following along with us. We will be back next week with episode four. And we're going to talk to chapters and episode four, chapters eight and nine. So listen, read, consume, sleep next to the book, whatever you do to absorb it, and we'll be seeing you then.

So thanks so much, Dana, for joining me again this week. I really appreciate it. Absolutely. I'm loving it, and I know that the listeners are as well. So this is, it truly is a high delight of my weekends, and I can't wait for the next one. It's going to be good. All right, everybody until next time, take care of yourselves, take care of each other,

take care of your mental health, take care of the planet. I've been AG, and I've been DG, and this is the MSW Book Club. The MSW Book Club is exhibited produced by Allison Gill in partnership with MSW Media and written by Allison Gill and Dana Goldberg, sound design and engineering by Molly Hawke, Jesse Egan is our copywriter and our art and web designer by Jellaryter and Moxie Design Studios. The MSW Book Club is a proud member of MSW Media, a group of creator-owned podcasts focused on news, justice and politics.

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