Jack - MSW Vol. 2 Season 2 Episode 1 (feat. Robert J. DeNault)

Episode Date: July 10, 2021

Today, I’ll be speaking with Robert DeNault about a trove of Mueller documents that were released to the public this week. There are some redactions in there but these documents, in particular the letter from Mueller to Trump’s lawyers, go a long way to shore up the fact that Trumplandia obstructed the Mueller probe by refusing to cooperate. And of course, later I’ll have the Fantasy Indictment League and Sabotage for you as things start to heat up in Central Florida as we approach the charging decision on Matt Gaetz.Follow our guest:Robert J. DeNaultIndependent Investigative Journalisthttps://twitter.com/robertjdenaultFollow AG on Twitter:Dr. Allison Gill (@allisongill)Want to support the show and get it ad-free and early?https://dailybeans.supercast.tech/Orhttps://patreon.com/thedailybeansPromo Codes https://betterhelp.com/AG http://helixsleep.com/MSW http://magicspoon.com/MSW

They might be giants that have been on the road for too long. Too long. And they might be giants aren't even sorry. Not even sorry. And audiences like the shows too much. Too much. And now they might be giants that are playing their breakthrough album, all of it.

And they still have time for other songs. They're fooling around. Who can stop? They might be giants and their liberal rocket gender. Who? No one. This happens to pay for what with somebody else's money. Hey, all.

This is Glenn Kirschner, and you're listening to Mueller She Wrote. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities.

I have been called a surrogate at a time, a two in that campaign. And I didn't have, not have, communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for? I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find

the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to Muller She wrote. Volume 2, Season 2, Episode 1.

I am back from vacation in Port of Iarta. We have a lot to cover. Apparently, giant, huge things happen, including indictments when I go on vacation. So I have decided going forward. I'm going to take a week off every eight weeks or so to kind of help nudge justice in the right direction. Since that's my vacation time, it seems to be when all of these indictments occur. As you know, the Trump Organization and Alan Weiselberg were indicted, and we went

over that in detail on this past week's daily beans podcast. I highly recommend listening to my interview with former Mueller Top prosecutor Andrew Weissman about the indictment. You can find that by searching for the daily beans podcast wherever you get your podcasts. And today on this show, I'll be speaking with Robert DeNalt about a trove of Mueller documents that was released to the public this week, stuff we hadn't seen before. There are some redactions in there, but these documents, in particular, the letter from Mueller to Trump's lawyers, go a long way to shore up the shit we already knew, that Trump and India obstructed the Mueller probe by refusing to cooperate, which disallowed

Mueller from being able to indict anyone on conspiracy charges with Russia. So that's happening. And of course, later I'll also have the fantasy indictment league and sabotage for you as things start to heat up in central Florida as we approach the charging decision on Matt Gaetz. But first, there are quite a few headlines, so let's jump in with just the facts. First up today, remember when the House Judiciary Committee requested the Mueller Grand jury materials under its article One Powers of Impeachment back in July of 2019?

I think we were on stage live at the Chicago Show when this all went down. And I said that that actually constituted the beginning of the impeachment inquiry. And that was a couple of months before Pelosi officially announced the impeachment when the Ukraine stuff went down. It was an interesting timing, too, because right when Jerry Nadler was requesting those documents, the underlying grand jury materials and the Mueller investigation under Article 1 impeachment powers of Congress, we had just heard from Adam Schiff that there was some fucked up shit that went down in a phone call according to a whistleblower between the former guy and the president of

Ukraine. And then two months later of course Nancy Pelosi announced the official impeachment inquiry into the former guy for that Ukraine shakedown. Well that request for the Mueller-Grenger material went to court that languished there. Well the decision has been handed down and this news flew quietly under the radar, probably for political optical reasons. Congressional Democrats years-long attempt to nail down whether then President Donald Trump lied to special counsel Robert Mueller, effectively ended on Friday, July 2, with a U.S. Supreme Court wiping away court decisions where the House Judiciary Committee was told it could access

Secret Grand jury records from key witnesses in the Mueller investigation. So now the House will not get those grand jury records. That brings to a close the Democrats pursuit of what witnesses in the Mueller investigation said confidentially under oath about their interactions with Trump and others during the 2016 campaign. oath about their interactions with Trump and others during the 2016 campaign. Since 2019, as I said, the Judiciary Committee has sought access to records from Mueller Investigation's grand jury proceedings, which were cited in Mueller's report on Russian interference in the 2016 election. The House had repeatedly said it wanted the records, so it could consider whether or not to impeach Trump for attempting to obstruct the Russia investigation, which Mueller also documented

in volume two. But over the past two years, the fight plotted through the court system with the Justice Department under Trump unsuccessfully arguing to block the release of those documents. They lost those court's cases. The Supreme Court initially had agreed to hear the case, but then delayed it following Trump's loss of the presidency in November. And we told you they were going to moot this. They were waiting to see whether or not he would win the election to see whether or not

this case was moot. On Friday, the high court vacated the earlier rulings. The Justice Department under Biden wanted this result saying the case had actually become moot. The House did not oppose this move, so they didn't say anything about it either. But a top lawyer for the house in June noted the case was ending because Trump was no longer president, which is what we posited, and we said, be ready for that. And it sucks, but it is the right call, because the impeachment remedy is no longer a remedy, and the request is now moot.

These records could be sought under other circumstances, however, like, I don't know, say, an investigation into obstruction of justice by the Department of Justice, if they decide to pick it back up. Keep in mind that even if the grand jury materials were handed over, we would not have got to see any of them. So it's not like we're losing out here. The super grand jury secrecy rules.

So don't be too bummed about this, but Trump did effectively run out the clock, and that kind of stonewalling for time needs to be addressed, because we cannot set the precedent that future presidents can avoid investigation and accountability through simple court delay tactics. And in a tangential development on Friday the second, the Justice Department released several letters

between Mueller's investigators and Trump's lawyers as Mueller had pushed for more answers, from the then president, and they saw to sit down interview, yet Trump's team held them off. The never before seen written exchanges further highlight how Mueller had questions for Trump and have never been answered, and I'll be talking, that's what I'm going to be talking with Robert DeNalt about a little bit later in the show. And, in an exclusive from Time magazine, we have some Eric Prince news. You'll remember him as the head of the now-defunct criminal enterprise Blackwater and the brother of former education secretary Betsy DeVos.

And he met in the Seychelles, trying to talk about sanctions with Russians. So he was a Trump campaign advocate. He was one of a proxy for the Trump campaign. He was also one of the architects of the Middle East Marshall Plan, where Trump had and Bud McFarland with the help of Flynn and KT McFarland planned to give nuclear technology to Saudi Arabia, build nuclear reactors, and then have Eric Prince's people

guard the sites in an effort to, quote, colonize the Middle East, according to a text from Flynn to a guy named Copson, who was going to build those reactors, while on the day, while the day Trump was taking the oath of office. Well, this is the new reporting here. On the second night of his visit to Kiev, Eric Prince had dinner on his agenda. A few of his Ukrainian associates had arranged to meet the American billionaire at the Vodka Grill that evening, February

23, 2020. As the party got seated inside a private karaoke room on the second floor, Igor Novakov, who was the top adviser to the Ukraine president, remembers feeling nervous. He had done some reading about Blackwater, the private military company, Prince founded in 97, and knew about the massacre its troops had perpetrated during the US war in Iraq, coming face to face that night with the world's most prominent soldier of fortune, Navikov remembers thinking, what does this guy want with us? Well soon became clear, Prince wanted a lot from Ukraine. according to interviews with close associates in confidential documents detailing his ambitions, Prince hoped to hire Ukraine's combat veterans into private military companies.

Prince also wanted a big piece of Ukraine's military industrial complex, including factories that make engines for fighter jets and helicopters. His full plan, dated June 2020, and obtained exclusively by Time magazine this spring, includes a roadmap for their creation of a vertically integrated aviation defense consortium that could bring $10 billion in revenues and investment. Under the Trump administration, Prince's family, a powerful clan of right-wing Republican donors from Michigan, saw their influence rise. As we know, Prince of Sister Betsy DeVos was appointed at Education Secretary, while Prince himself leveraged contacts the White House to chase major deals

around the world. And this Ukraine deal was one of them. And the ones that he was pursuing with Ukraine were among the most ambitious. But with Trump out of office, the Ukrainian government has slowed the process and invited more competition for the assets that Prince coveted. Quote, had it been another four years of Trump,

Eric probably would be closing the deal. But the Ukrainians had serious concerns about working with Prince, according to three people involved with the negotiations. Prince's choice of allies in Kiev, two men with ties to the Kremlin, raised particular alarm. His Ukrainian business partner is Andre Ardemenko Who made headlines in 2017 by offering the Trump administration a peace plan for the war in Ukraine that basically gave a giant chunk of Ukraine to Russia and In exchange for lifting sanctions on Russia another Prince ally in Kiev is Andre Dirkotch

We know him a Ukrainian legislator, who's in the U.S. he's been accused of being an active Russian agent. He's been sanctioned by Steve Mnuchin, both Artymenko and Durkacz work to advance Prince's business ventures in Ukraine last year. Hmm, Durkacz, Artymenko. The deals ran into resistance from the government in Ukraine. Prince's allies face bigger problems in New York City, where both Artymenko and Durkach, Artimenko. And the deals ran into resistance from the government in Ukraine, Prince's allies faced bigger problems in New York City, where both Artimenko and Durkach are now under criminal investigation.

The U.S. Attorney in the Eastern District of New York declined to comment on the investigation, which is reportedly focused on whether the two men were involved in a suspected Russian plot to sway the 2020 presidential election. Spoiler alert, they were. And here's the buried lead. Prince does not appear to be a focus of that investigation, but Ardemenko tells time that federal investigators have questioned him about his relationship with Prince. In interviews with time in April and May, both Dirkach and Ardemenko denied wrongdoing and described the investigation as part of a, quote, political witch hunt against Trump allies. Prince did not respond to numerous requests for comment, including a detailed list of questions

about the documents outlining his proposal for Ukraine. This is a big-ass investigation, and I personally think Eric Prince is wrapped up in it. I find it interesting that time got this exclusive as the investigations into Russian back to Ukraine election interference in 2020 start to heat up in both the Southern District of New York with Rudy Giuliani and the Eastern District of New York with Derkocchen, Ardomeka. I'll stay on top of this for you. It's a very, very interesting story.

And finally, the U.S. Republican National Committee, the RNC, has denied Russian hackers access data during a breach of a third-party provider last week. They're denying it. The hackers were part of APT-29, also known as Kozybear, according to Bloomberg, citing two unnamed people familiar with the matter. The group is linked with Russian foreign intelligence services, the SVR, and as we know, was previously accused of hacking the DNC and the D-Triple C in 2016, as well as carrying

out the historic cyber security breach against solar winds, which affected about 100 US companies and nine federal agencies. But the RNC didn't happen to the RNC. The RNC has said an investigation by Microsoft found that no RNC data had been accessed as a result of the hack of Sinex Corp, the third-party provider. I would like to hear from Microsoft about that. The RNC chief of staff, Richard Walters, told the New York Times,

over the weekend, we were informed that Sinex, a third party provider, had been breached, we immediately blocked all access from Sinex accounts to our cloud environment. Quote, our team to work with Microsoft to conduct a review of our systems and after a thorough investigation,

no RNC data was accessed. We will continue to work with Microsoft as well as federal law enforcement officials on this matter. Huh. I wonder why the Republicans would deny that their handlers got a fresh batch of Compromot on them. Keep your eyes peeled for some heavy Russian bootlicking by the GOP in the coming months. I think we can pretty much source the entire behavior of the Republican Party to the initial hacks of the RNC.

The booty, the fruits of which were never publicly weaponized that we saw, but perhaps behind the scenes. Now, I'd like to talk about the new Mueller documents we got this past week, and I'll be speaking with Robert Denald about them right after this quick break. Stay with us. Hey everybody, it's A.G. Allison Gill from Mollershi Road, and this episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. If you've been experiencing anxiety or a life keeps throwing you curveballs, I want to

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H-E-L-P dot com slash AG and you'll be on your way to living a happier life. And today I am joined by independent journalist almost a lawyer. You're pretty much almost everything Robert DeNalt welcome. It's so good to be here. I'm almost there. Now normally when I talk to you at least over the last month or two we've been talking about Central Florida and Matt Gates and Greenberg and Engels and Ingersoll and Ellicott and Roger Stone. But today, we are going to be talking about something that was recently released from the Mueller days because this is Mueller

She wrote. And I found this to be absolutely fascinating. Can you talk a little bit about, I mean, there were multiple documents, but there's one document in particular that really kind of struck both you and I. Can you talk about that document? Yeah. So, a lot of news outlets have done a really good job just making FOIA requests for documents related to the Mueller Pro within the investigation on the DOJ side. You know, lots of conversations between officials and luckily we live in a country where you can do that and unseal those records. So even though it felt slow to a lot of people

we're learning new information still about what was going on behind the scenes and a lot of these documents came out or were being created right as the Mueller investigation was sort of beginning Right as the Mueller investigation was sort of beginning to hit an end trajectory. So this is December 2018. We're looking at almost 2019. I believe March 2019 was when Mueller submitted his report. So we're a couple months before the rap. And this one letter that really struck us was drafted. There were three letters actually sent on the same day by Mueller, by Mueller deputy, and I believe by possibly one of Trump's lawyers back to Mueller, all about written answers that Donald Trump had submitted to Mueller and his team. That was all Trump was willing to consent to. He didn't want to sit down for an interview,

and obviously, you know, the public knows this wrangling went on for a long time. Mueller wanted to speak to Trump about what he knew. The letter was Mueller's sort of final act in laying out a theory in why he thought that the president needed to sit down for an interview to get to the bottom of Russian interference in the election. And I think in a more succinct, clear, and pretty remarkable way than his public testimony did, maybe even in the reports did, Mueller laid out in clear language multiple people

who were really important to this probe obstructed it. And we can't get the information, you know, from people like Flynn or Papa Doppler's that we think we should have gotten to lay out a conspiracy. And so we need to talk to everybody who might be a witness, who might have relevant information because we know we were obstructed. And I think it's pretty normal. Yeah. And I mean, that was also laid out in the report, but not in as much detail, you know, that, you know, he came out and said, look, if we could exonerate Trump, we would so say or, you know, double negatives and language. But, you know, he, he very, very plainly said, there were a lot of people who didn't cooperate, who lied to us,

who obstructed, who didn't hand over information. And so they sort of, he went into that. But the language in this letter, tell me who the letter was to and what were some of the standout quotes from it that I think, you know, when you talk about really sort of elegantly layout, this argument of, you know, obstruction, because we were all like subpoena him, get him in there, send follow-up questions at least to his written answers, which were, which he lied in his written answers. And we know that because through Roger Stone's trial, the testimony from Rick Gates that he actually did have foreknowledge of the WikiLeaks dump, for example, with that phone call on the way to LaGuardia with Roger Stone.

So, who's this letter to this is probably one of the final communications that goes down between Mueller and the letter was addressed to Jane Raskin and at the team of lawyers who were representing Trump at that point. These were private attorneys, these are not White House lawyers, although I suspect probably like people at the White House might have been C.C. or clearly were getting the information, but it was addressed to Trump's lawyers and there was clearly a long months long maybe even years long back and forth about whether Donald Trump would sit for an interview with Mueller. And I think they had made several entreaties and sort of settled on the written questions, but Mueller had left it very open as to sort of, you know, we don't think this is a

substitute. We're fine accepting your written answers, but we're not saying that we're never, we're going to stop pursuing or essentially pursue maybe a subpoena. That's a question of constitutional law and it's clear that Mueller was sort of keeping that option open. Even though it seems like at that point, Attorney General Barr had taken over the Justice Department and I don't think a subpoena to Trump was ever really gonna go forward. So that's a background on the letter.

In terms of the quotes, then I'm pulling it up now so I can read directly from it. I think that most important thing is that he notes, you know, here's what we're investigating. Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election in any links or coordination with your clients campaign, right? Framing this as, you're the first, you're campaign. Well, your letter questions the relevance of these inquiries, you know, sort of pointing

to the ridiculous bogus arguments that people were already making, saying this whole investigation was based on a sham. It's so easy to let your brain get fried and lose track of that, you know, there were very factual, multiple of them convicted already. I mean, it wasn't sort of the witch hunt that they were already portraying it to be. Mueller reminds them that our office

has brought numerous criminal charges related to Russian interference in the presidential election. We've also brought criminal charges based on false statements made to investigators by an administration official, that's Michael Flynn, and a campaign advisor about their contacts with Russians, that's George Poppodopoul. Let's note, he also doesn't even say that they also brought obstruction charges against Paul Manafort, they also ended up bringing witness-tempering charges that February, I believe, against Roger Stone. So obstruction was everywhere and they're clearly linking these two things.

We've prosecuted Russian interference and we've prosecuted your own associates for obstructing this investigation. And so he concludes that paragraph by saying the completion of our investigation into the scope of these criminal activities and any links to the campaign extends to the personal knowledge of the candidate himself. And of course it does. And it's obvious to us, you know, we see it all the time on Twitter and

you know people are sort of scratching their heads. Why is it so difficult to do these, you know, prove these things but in a court of law you need evidence. You can't just go on what seems obvious to us on Twitter. But here Mueller is laying out a very practical, logical reason why he would just need to interview, obtain evidence. You need to be able to access and interview potential suspects. And if President Trump wanted to plead the fit, he should be in a position where he has to do that.

You don't just get to decline, to even talk. At all, if you want to invoke your even talk at all. If you want to invoke your rights, invoke them, but you need to be on record invoking them because that's the system right? Well, he did get to decline talking at all. And some folks, including Marcy Wheeler and are are are are positing on social media that some of the redactions in this letter could indicate that perhaps Trump was actually subpoenaed. Not that I feel like if he were subpoenaed, we wouldn't necessarily would have seen it, but he would have had to either ignore it or take it to court, or maybe he just flat out ignored it and nothing ever happened.

However, I feel like if that were the case, but maybe I'm wrong, that we would have seen that show up in the obstruction volume two charges, although I don't know if, you know, just simply ignoring a subpoena could be charged as obstruction of justice. I honestly don't know, but none of that is mentioned. None of that obstruction to the investigation in New Russia is mentioned in the volume two, you know, where they lay out the 14 or whatever counts of obstruction of justice, the four of which meet all three, according to Muller, at least speculatively reading it, all three elements of criminal obstruction of justice. So I'm surprised that it didn't show up in there, but then we also have Robert Appendix

D, where we had 14 cases, two of which we know about the, well, I think four now that we know about, the other 10 redacted, that were handed off to other agencies. But I think the main concern for Mueller, at least from speaking to people who worked on the investigation, was that they were afraid that the investigation would be shut down. He would be fired. He tried to fire him on a couple of occasions. And then we wouldn't have volume one, even though it was inappropriately redacted by bar and totally spun.

And we also wouldn't have the obstruction, the beautiful obstruction of justice work that Merrick Garland could pick up and run with, and I'm waiting and hoping that he does. Yeah, I think that if you read, and I know you just spoke with Andrew Weissman recently, if you read his book, it's very clear that even more than we the public were aware, they were hearing on a regular basis that they might get fired. They would sort of go into work

a lot of the time with the assumption that it could be their last day. And the methods they were undertaking to try to preserve evidence to make sure it wouldn't all somehow get shuffled away and then disappeared in the middle of the night were pretty remarkable. I think the interesting part here, like you said, the obstruction section of the report, is beautiful in that it isolates certain actions and lays out the elements and whether or not they're met. And I think there's four that it's pretty apparent that all the elements were met. And then there's a few more that maybe it's questionable that they could be met. They could not be met. And then there might be one or two that they sort of thought,

man, I don't think this is enough. But what they never did in that section was link general obstruction to the fact that they could not establish a conspiracy. And I think that that is a fair move by him. I think Mueller will be commended and remembered very well for recognizing the power a prosecutor has. And even though logic and common sense and all of us wanting a simple answer to an incredibly complicated investigation would of course lead us to want someone to definitively say, yeah, sense and all of us wanting a simple answer to an incredibly complicated investigation would, of course, lead us to want someone to definitively say, yeah, we couldn't establish

it because people obstructed. It's not fair to defend it, any defendant. Just sort of posit like that and take your role as a prosecutor and turn it into, well, I think this is what's good for the public. So I'm going to say it like this because you can't start thinking like that. And this person, you know, Mueller was working as a traditional prosecutor, even though he was a special counsel, he's still under DOJ guidelines. He's still employed at the will of the attorney general. So it's, it's a tricky spot for him to be in. And I think

he does catch a lot of flack for me. Incredibly difficult position. Right. And a lot of people are complaining that he didn't go far enough. He didn't, you know, even he wasn't going to indict the president. He knew that from the beginning. And so people, well, why do you even do the investigation? He explains it in the report. I did it because I wanted to get all the evidence while it was fresh and everyone's mind. And before people fucking destroyed it, he didn't say fucking, I said, but that would be cool. And then also a lot of people are like, well, he left the barndor open for bar to come in

and make a charging decision on obstruction by not making a decision on obstruction, but I keep continuing to argue, had he done that, he would have jeopardized any future obstruction of justice Investigation now if if Merrick Garland doesn't pick this up and run with it I mean fuck put all the blame on Merrick Garland But the fact that it's there for him to do so and it hasn't been tainted and it hasn't been

You know fucked up by coming out and accusing a Somebody of a crime that is not able to defend themselves Which they have the right to do constitutionally and could fly on appeal coming out and accusing somebody of a crime that is not able to defend themselves, which they have the right to do constitutionally, and could fly on appeal, really tees up Merrick Garland perfectly to run with this. And then we have the Don McGahn testimony right on top of it, saying, yeah, all of that shit I said is true. And so now it's in the hands of Merrick Garland, but I still contend.

I'm just afraid that if Merrick Garland doesn't prosecute, people will blame Mueller. But I think Mueller pretty much did everything right and it's frustrating and it sucks and I get it. But had he come out and accused Trump of obstructing justice, but saying, I'm not gonna indict him, but he definitely obstructed justice. You are then accusing someone of a crime who cannot defend themselves or face their accuser

in a court of law, and that is against the Constitution and would tee up a really, really good appeal. And so I think that's where we are right now and why we're here. I think that's right. And I think that he doesn't get enough credit for that. I think that's right. And I think that he doesn't get enough credit for that. Those are the kinds of things that those of us who were so concerned with the Trump administration's conduct that we took time out of our lives weren't paid to do any of this, but focused singularly

on exposing that kind of corruption and calling it out on a day-to-day basis. We should be happy that he resisted that kind of public big circus of accusing a person of a crime when he had no right to defend himself. If you think Robert Mueller wasn't convinced Trump committed a crime, I don't know.

He said that it didn't exonerate him and he laid out the elements of a crime and put enough evidence in each bucket. But he laid out the elements of a crime and put enough evidence in each bucket. But he would not accuse someone of a crime when they were not able to defend themselves in the court of law. And that's something we should be happy that he did if we're people who are concerned about the rule of law. And on constitutional rights, you know, people getting fast and loose with what rights matter

in which ones don't. And I think he should be commended for those things, especially the later paragraphs of this same letter as well. So. Yeah. And I also still, I still have questions about the end of the Mueller probe. There was a thing I'll have to find the details of it, but there was a court filing where they were the Mueller prosecutors had asked for a continuance to April 1st, 2019, and it was granted. And they had asked for that continuance in March, early March.

I think it was a 30-day continuance. And then all of a sudden, the investigation was over. And those prosecutors had to go back to the court and say we're super sorry. We thought this would still be going on on April 1st. We wouldn't have asked for this continuance if we had been told prior to the first week of March that this investigation was ending. And so they had to apologize to the court because you know, you lose it as a prosecutor. You use a little bit of candor with the cord, if you fuck them over like that.

So it seemed based on that one court filing that some people at least in the Mueller investigation, were taken off guard by the end of that investigation. And I don't know if that's something we're ever gonna learn anytime soon. And I wanna remind everybody, we didn't get the Jaworski report for Watergate until 2016 or 2017.

So I don't even know if I will live long enough to see and know what really happened in the Mueller investigation. You will. You will. I was just thinking about that. And I didn't wanna be too morbid. But we will get more information.

One interesting thing in this packet of emails that were released, one of the attachments to one of them was a letter from the foreman of the grand jury in the Nixon Watergate scandal. And the letter was sent to President Nixon asking for his testimony. And it was remarkable to see it in there. It's a little piece of history.

I don't know when it was unsealed. I know a lot of those records were unsealed in recent years. But it was clearly put in, I think in part, I'm sure connected to the discussion of whether a president does or doesn't have to comply with that kind of a request, but to read it. And it directly went to the fact that written answers were not sufficient, that that in person testimony was something that would need to happen.

It was just really interesting to see and we will get some more of those things down the road probably after President Trump has gone on and there is a presidential library and there will be a presidential library as I know but it's gonna be like a cry museum or something it'll be fun but there will be one because that's obviously how a lot of these records get released are through the presidential libraries that keep them and have the rights to them. That's really, really interesting. Because I know, and we talked about this a lot when it

was happening, that Mueller wanted more than just written answers, and it wouldn't be sufficient for a complete and thorough investigation. And, you know, Mueller was a volume one guy. I think that his goal, I like volume two, I'm a volume two, I'm House volume two, if we have to. I'm a volume one guy. I'm a volume one guy. But, you know, the thing about Mueller was he was a volume one guy. He spent a lot of time talking about that when he was testifying in July of 2019. But I think his most important goal was to get all the facts and all the evidence that he could stay on as special counsel as long as he could not be fired and get the report out, especially volume one, so that the country could understand the depth and breadth of

the coordination, or even if there, you know, coordination aside, conspiracy aside, how much the Russians were influencing our 2016 and and future elections as well. And so I think that that was his main goal. And of course, we know Bill Barwin in through the Reggie Walton case, Bill Barr went in and inappropriately redacted a lot of things that showed and framed the depth and breadth and the scope of Russian interference. And then sat on it for three weeks, spun it, said it exonerated the president. And, and, and we know from at least one letter that Mueller was super pissed about that. And there's apparently a second letter, and there's also a couple of phone calls and meetings, too, that we don't know what was said. And I'm hoping we get to hear about those, too.

But I think that that was his main goal, was to get this information out to the public. And then, of course, lay out the obstruction of justice charges for future prosecution. I think that's right. And I think as frustrated as so many of us have felt about the lack of legal accountability for some of the players here, we know a lot of information that when you compare this to other scandals in US history, it took years for us to find out the actual facts, who knew what when. We have a lot of information for being only five years out from the 2016 election. And we got a lot of it about three years out. And that is a testament to their diligent work, their quiet, methodical pursuit of this

investigation. And I think he did want more. And it's very clear that there were three topics that he was really focused on, uh, Trump Tower Mount Scal, the Trump Tower meeting, and Roger Stone and WikiLeaks. And he says that in the letter. And there's other areas that are listed in the appendix, but he's, they are clearly focused on those three links. Sadly, we never, you know, Don Jr., I don't think agreed to testify. I don't know if we know for sure that he pled the fifth, but it sounded like he invoked his constitutional rights. And we never really got a lot of information about the adoptions meeting.

All I wanted more, he wanted to know. That's that's that's obscene. I don't know if we'll ever find out. But, you know, you hit a wall. Yeah, and now I think that these investigations in the Southern District of New York with Rudy Giuliani and Ukraine and the Eastern District of New York with Ukraine, Russian back to Ukraine interference in 2020, I think are as big or bigger investigations than the one that Mueller was conducting. I'm not sure why we don't have an independent or special counsel looking into that as well. But we aren't getting any

information. We got more information about the Mueller investigation as it went on than we are getting about this new Southern District and Eastern District investigations into Rudy, Ukraine, and that whole situation. So I think pretty soon, we're gonna start seeing more information come out, because special master Barbara Jones has the documents seized by Rudy and Victoria Tonsig. And I think as these investigations go on, we're gonna start getting huge dumps of information

that may or may not be sort of on par with the amount of stuff we got out of the Mueller investigation. These federal prosecutors, I have to say, have been pretty remarkably impressive at keeping stuff very quiet. I think about Epstein. We were all talking about Epstein, but we had no idea that he was about to be arrested. And then he was and it changed that whole dynamic. And that was also Southern District of New York.

And there's lots of cases like that. I mean, we're talking about the Greenbird case too and lots of speculation there. But they were very tight lift. We're not exactly sure how big or why. That's gonna get, there is a case too that I've been thinking about a bit, we were talking about the referred cases

that were redacted in Mueller's cases. And there was a case, Scott Stebman and I pursued for a bit about a Russian national who ran a cryptocurrency exchange. He was indicted three days before Trump took office in January 2017. And it was a massive indictment that claimed that this guy ran like a $2 billion cryptocurrency scam, stole a bunch of money, and part of the funding went to Fancy Bear, and they were using it to buy, you know, operative equipment and stuff that they ended up maybe using in the hack of the DNC, but it's a pretty bizarre case. And that case has just been completely

quiet. And the guy is, you know, he's been charged in France and convicted in France and we're trying to extradite him. But there's been like no information about this very interesting case. So part of me wonders how many other things are percolating out there that Mueller never got in the lane of because it was just not in his mandate. It was going to lead to way too much going on. Although that case technically would tie to that kind of election conspiracy. They paid for hacking equipment, but he didn't touch that stuff. So I wonder how much we don't know. And what's his name, the special John Durham?

Yeah. What is that? What's happening up there? He's just netflexing and chill right now. But yeah, I assume that appendix D a lot of those cases, sort of maybe kept quiet or put on the back burner, or they kept investigating independently or sort of got stopped, but not closed. And now that Mara Garland is there, I'm assuming that they're free to open those back up again. And I think we're going to start hearing about a lot of them. Yeah, that's the hope.

And I want to see where Durham goes. I know he's been asking questions of interesting. Apparently he's been asking questions about the Trump computer server. I would love it if Durham came out with some indictments on the Trump side. You're gonna be wild. I mean, wouldn't it just be so wild? Because he's an old mob guy, Moffie guy, right? Like that's his jam. So it would just be like, well, I didn't find anything about Hunter Biden or, you know,

anything like that. But hey, what can you talk about that computer server? And and people will always mention it as like a loose thread, but Dexter Philkins at, at the New Yorker has written two amazing pieces about the computer server. One was from like 2018, and he wrote an update last fall about how we still don't really know exactly what happened. But he reported that he's been asking questions

and bringing people in on that. And I'm like, what is he possibly going on here that he's pursuing this? So I don't know who knows, be careful what you wish for when you put prosecutors on to broad investigative origin. Yeah. He's very quiet, which makes me think it's not going well

for the old former guy, regardless of what he's actually looking into, you know, because if there was one drop of news that would would favor or at least could be spun to favor Donald Trump, I think it would be all over. Yeah, we'd be getting it in a two-page screen from Mar-a-Lago in the new form of Twitter that Trump is trying to use. Yeah, his paper Twitter. Oh, weird, it's so bad. Yeah, his paper Twitter. Oh, dear, it's so bad. All right. Well, thank you so much. We're going to keep following this anytime. Some new Mueller stuff comes out. I appreciate your time today. And that

tell everyone where they can follow you because you are really following this Roger Stone, Matt Gaetz, Greenberg, Engle stuff very closely. And I want everybody to know where they can follow you on Twitter because you're gonna have Probably the fast breaking news on this. Yeah, not following me at Robert J. Denult I I have you know my eye on this case. I'm watching Pacer I'm waiting for things to come down and hoping that my months long obsession with this thing will make it Digestible for people so I can kind of explain the lay of the land because I have a feeling it's going to be kind of complicated. Yeah, and it's going to get weird and they just asked for an extension for the sentencing for Greenberg because he's got so much shit to talk about

that that's not enough time. Government didn't object and so I don't know if this is going to push back the original reporting that we could see a Gates indictment in a July timeframe, a charging decision. He might be spilling his guts about 800 other people. He might be done with his Gates' proffer. Who knows? I don't know. But I haven't seen any reporting to update the July timeframe of a charging decision for Gates, so I know you're a refreshing pacer.

Furiously, so we'll keep an eye on your account. Thanks so much. Robert Denald, I appreciate your time. Hey, everybody. It's A.G. in this episode of Mola Shirod is brought to you by the makers of the best mattress in the universe, Helix Sleep. As you may have heard, Mola Shirod had a couple right in with a quarantine confession that they were sleeping on a Trump branded mattress while we couldn't have that. So we sent them a Helix mattress designed with their unique

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Head to helixsleep.com, that's H-E-L-I-XSleep.com slash MSW. You'll be glad you did. And today's episode is also brought to you by Magic Spoon. I grew up with cereal, it's my favorite food when I was a kid, but I had to give it up as an adult because of all the sugar and carbs and chemicals. But thanks to Magic Spoon, cereal is back baby. Magic Spoon has magically zero grams of sugar, 13 to 14 grams of protein, four net grams of carbs and only 140 calories in each serving.

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use promo code MSW to check out to save $5 off your order. Magic Spoon is so confident. Like I said, 100% happiness guarantee. They'll refund your money. No questions asked, but it's so, so good. I couldn't believe it when I first ate it. I was like, this is good for me. Oh my god. Remember your next delicious bowl of guilt-free cereal comes from magickspoon.com slash MSW and use code MSW to save $5 off, and thanks to magickspoon for sponsoring the show. Alright, everybody, welcome back. I have a little shot in Florida for you. A local appeals court in Washington, D.C. has suspended Rudy Giuliani's authority to

practice law in the city on Wednesday. A New York appellate court suspended Giuliani's law license last month in New York, saying he made demonstrably false and misleading statements about last year's election while serving as former president Donald Trump's attorney. And in fact, they didn't even finish their investigation. They stopped after finding like 900 lies and said, we got to suspend them now and then resume their investigation. They stopped after finding like 900 lies and said, we got to suspend them now and then resume our investigation. So he's got that interim suspension

until the investigation is complete, but they couldn't even wait. They were like, he's too much of a danger to the public. Now the action from DC and their appellate court is required under the city's bar rules whenever a lawyer faces disciplinary action and in another jurisdiction, DC has to do this, and that's so wonderful.

So anyway, just thought I'd share that little tidbit of happiness with you. And now, are you ready for some sabotage? [♪ OUTRO MUSIC PLAYING [♪ From our friends at Forensic News. Remember how last week I drafted Ingersoll for the fantasy indictment league because I had speculated that there'd probably be some mid-level Greenberg pal indictments before

we saw a Gates indictment. I also had Ella Cot on there, another Greenberg associate on my draft. Well this week Greenberg's lawyers asked for a continuance for his sentencing because he's got too much shit to confess and won't have it all out by August 19th That's his original sentencing date The government didn't oppose the motion So he's helping with something. I think I feel like and this is just speculation But if he were useless douche they probably oppose his motion to delay a sentencing and just keep the August 19 sentencing date

Well forensic news has new info on Ingersoll Prosecutors involved in the wide-ranging investigation into central Florida political figures including Gates have recently scrutinized a key ally of disgraced former Seminal County tax collector Joel Greenberg, who has since pled guilty to multiple charges including sex trafficking a minor, wire fraud, stalking, and conspiracy. The Greenberg ally, Keith Ingersoll, entered into a cryptocurrency project in 2018 with a far-right Russian religious scholar that claimed to be backed by the government of Belarus. Ingersoll is a Florida real estate executive who was hired by Greenberg shortly after Greenberg

took office in 2017. One year later, Ingersoll was named an Executive Vice President of Organic Fresh Coin. Fresh Coin. A cryptocurrency initial coin offering, ICO, headed by a Russian-born entrepreneur, active in the beauty of his own cryptocurrency dealings, which eventually led to the criminal charges of wire fraud. Prosecutors say that Greenberg embezzled and diverted over $400,000 to benefit himself personally, and included details of Greenberg's wide array of cryptocurrency projects, using taxpayer dollars to invest in cryptocurrency, taking the returns

for himself and then trying to pay back that taxpayer. Yeah, he was, yeah, wrong. Anyway, this is an incredibly intricate story with a zillion details. I encourage everyone to head to Forensic News and read the entire report. You'll be able to find it by googling forensic news in Gersal and G-E-R-S-O-L-L. Read that entire report. And you know what? It so nicely leads us into the fantasy indictment league. I'm gonna be a dick. No, it is gonna be a dick.

I'm gonna be a dick. A dick. A dick. A dick. A dick. A dick. A dick. A dick. A dick. A dick. Dick! And I had a crash! Are you in the fire? I told you they can't, it's gonna be okay. Just calm down. I can't calm down, I'm gonna be dead!

Alright before I get in my picks, I want to announce an indictment. First, of course the Trump organ, Alan Weiselberg. That is worth a lot of points if you had them, which I did. I drafted the Trump org last week, well two weeks ago. I also had Weiselberg, but I had him down for a plea agreement, so I won't take the points for that. But in other indictment news, Brian Kolfage, who set up a GoFundMe for Trump's border wall, has now been indicted on tax charges, that's according to the IRS on Thursday, and

could face up to 20 years in prison, which means, you know, four years. He was charged with two counts of filing a false tax return and one count of wire fraud related to that electronic filing of his 2019 tax return in Florida. He also faces separate federal indictment, a separate federal indictment out of New York for fraud and money laundering, you know, related offenses. That's part of that, you know, we build the wall thing. The charges alleged he received hundreds of thousands of dollars from multiple organizations in 2019, including we build the wall Inc, which were deposited into his personal bank account.

So not only did this dipshit defraud people, but he also didn't report it to the IRS. So he defrauded them too. Jason R. Cooody, acting US attorney for the Northern District of Florida, announced the tax charges on Thursday. Colfaj will be arraigned on July 21 in Pensacola. Something missing from this report is that he was a guy who was arrested alongside Steve Bannon on that yacht by the post office police. And that yacht was funded by the way by Guo Wang Wei, who recently bankrolled the new

right wing social media site Gitter, which was promptly hacked and is stupid. Now, had Bannon not been pardoned, I'm certain he'd be facing similar charges, but what fascinates the fuck out of me here is that it appears the IRS and U.S. attorneys are inditing rich white dudes for federal tax crimes. That's good news. And the word federal, as it relates to tax crimes, appeared 30 times in the Trump organization and Weiselberg indictments. So this gives me faith that the IRS or the feds will get involved in the Trump orgs, and we may see some super seating indictments. Well, I guess it wouldn't be super seating for the feds. It'd be new indictments from the feds

for the 17-year conspiracy to defraud the internal revenue service by Weiselberg and the Trump organization. So that's real interesting, right? We're like, is the IRS gonna do anything? You know, the federal, these are federal tax crimes. What's been going on here that the New York State is looking into, is IVANSA is looking into,

these are federal crimes. You think they are also do anything? This gives me faith that they might, but they might be standing back for a minute so they don't interfere with this particular investigation. The feds have not gotten involved yet. I want to point that out. Although, if you did listen to that, Daily Beans interview with Andrew Weissman. We talk about that.

I think the feds will likely get involved. I think we will see some federal movement in the Trump organization investigations. So that brings me to my picks this week. I'm gonna go with the Weisselberg plea agreement. I know that he is still being pushed to cooperate. His lawyers were exceedingly careful in their response to his indictment last week,

leaving open the door for a cooperation agreement. So I'm going with the Weisselberg plea agreement and I'm leaving that on there. I'd also like to add some Trump org superseding indictments. I think I would also like to add Ingersoll, given our sabotage today, and Jacob Engels. And then of course, Matt fucking gates. Is that five? I got Weiselberg. I got Trump org, Ingersoll, Engels, Matt Facking Gates.

That's it. That's my five. That's my fantasy draft team. Thank you all so much for listening. If you have any corrections on this show to submit, you can do so by going to dailybeanspod.com and clicking on contact. Make sure you say you're sending in a correction for Mollarshi wrote and not the dailybeans pod. And I'll read it on the air.

You can remain anonymous or I can say your name. You also have the option to give your pronouns if you want, so we get everything right. Until then, I will see you next week. I have been Allison Gill. And this is Muller She Wrote. Muller She Wrote is written and produced by Allison Gill in partnership with MSW Media. Sound designed in engineering or by Molly Hockey, Jesse Egan is our copywriter and our art and web designer by Joelle Reeder at Moxie Design Studios. Muller She Road is a proud member of MSW Media, a group of creator-owned podcasts focused on news, justice and politics.

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