Jack - Mueller Isn't Done Yet (feat. Harry Litman)

Episode Date: February 25, 2019

S3E8 - Joining us this week is Harry Litman (WaPo Columnist/Law Professor)! Plus, Jordan covers a possible end run around double jeopardy in case Trump pardon’s Manafort, Jaleesa has a report on Wilbur Ross violating government ethics, and AG takes us on a trip down memory lane as we go over our past and present coverage of Trump working with Mohammed Bone Saw, the crown prince of Saudi Arabia to build a nuclear bomb. Enjoy!

Season 4 of How We Win Is Here For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave. But the Maga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the house. Thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms.

So, the official podcast of the persistence is back with season 4. There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself. We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country. And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it, with messaging and communications expert, co-founder of Way to Win,

and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action and hope. I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. And this is How We Win. Thanks to Rothy's for supporting Muller She Wrote. Are you ready to try on the most comfortable flat you've ever worn that you can wear all

day, every day for any occasion? Seriously, you're never going to want to take them off. Get yourself a pair today with free shipping. Go to rothies.com and use promo code AG. Get this deal while it lasts. And thanks to Buffy for supporting Muller She Wrote. For $20 off your Buffy Comforter, visit Buffy.com and enter promo code AG. Finally, thanks to Billy for supporting Muller She wrote, introducing Billy, delivering premium razors direct to you for half the price of what you'd find in the store. And now, through March 31st, you'll get a special offer at MyBilly.com slash AG. But only until March 31st, so go to MyBilly.com slash AG right now.

That's M-Y-B-I-L-L-I-l-i-e.com-slash-ag. You'll be glad you did. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I'm not aware of any of those activities.

I'm not aware of any of those activities. I'm not aware of any of those activities. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time, a tree, and that campaign, and I didn't have, not have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for I have nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him.

I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist! No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist Hello, and welcome to Muller She Road. I'm your host A.G

With me as always is Julie Sajanson. Hello and Jordan Coburn. Hello. A great big thank you to all our patrons for your support this week We are nearly at 6,000 in our community and you're the most incredible people in the universe. Thank you for the gifts We get beans from Rancho Gordo. You guys send us coffee beans, cards, notes, a needle point. We got a needle point. We got hand-blown and hand-etched wine glasses, coasters, gifs. You guys make us gifs and video clips. Customized Jones Soda, which was awesome. Handmade pins, penance, somebody sent us a muller penance., candles. You guys are so beyond amazing. We have a whole weird shrine. People think I'm strange when they see our collection of stuff. We're super close to being able to put out our daily news show called Daily Beans.

Patrons of Mueller, she wrote will automatically be patrons of the news show. So Mueller, she wrote patrons. You get all the bonus episodes. All of them, it's not paper episode. You have unlimited access and you get the book club, newsletter, free gifts, pre sale and VIP tickets for our live events, super secret messages, access to the Facebook group, fantasy and diamond league,

midweek full-length episodes, all of that for $3 a month. It's not paper. So thank you so much for being there, because not only have we created this awesome thing with you guys and the support, but the community is really exceptional, very supportive. We have live shows coming up. MSW Live is coming soon. Maybe near you? Probably not, yeah. Odds are. But we are going to be at the Miracle Theatre in DC on March 29th and

we'll be at the Bellhouse in Brooklyn on March 30th. Those tickets are almost gone. So get them. And then April 18th at Largo. And those are also almost gone. So hurry up and grab those. And I think Elizabeth, coronavirus, McLaughlin is joining us for that show. And then in DC, we've gotten a Tasha Bertrand and Katie Fang. Yeah. So I'm super excited about that. Yay women in media. Let's see, we have some corrections from, oh, Minneapolis show is coming up. I don't have the details yet, but we're coming, I think, to the parkway, but that's in the summer.

So stay tuned. And we got some news two seconds ago. This thing is far from over. So we'll be around in June. We have some corrections from last week. The gang of eight isn't the chairs and vice chairs of the judiciary and the intel committee. The gang of eight is the speaker of the house, the Senate majority leader, the house and Senate minority leaders, and then the chairs and

vice chairs of the intelligence committees. The judiciary committee has nothing to do with it. And I knew that, and I don't know why I said it wrong, but thanks to persistent voter on Twitter for that information. Oh, makes sense that it came from them. Yep, yep, they're persistent. We mentioned the gang of eight when we were talking about McCabe in the midweek episode. So we appreciate that. We'll talk about that a little bit more when it comes up in this episode. Then regarding the upcoming presidential election, I've gotten a lot of feedback, negative

and positive. I want to say, let's just focus on the platforms in the candidates and let's not fall victim to the GOP and Russian hit pieces on Dem candidates because 90% at least of the negative social media posts about candidates are from GOP operatives and Russians. Don't fall for it. All the Dem candidates are pretty good people.

So pick your horse, advocate for them, do it without tearing anyone else down. Because trash politics is for assholes and Republicans. And I made a promise this week. I promise to ignore negative hit pieces against dem candidates to include anyone running on the dem ticket. I know Bernie is not a Democrat. Do research.

I'm going to do research to verify things using only credible sources, okay? And then I'm going to focus on platforms and candidates, not GOP and Russian disinformation. And then I promise to vote for the winner of the Dem primary, no matter what. So, hashtag Dem Promises. What are yours? Tag us at Muller She Wrote, hashtag Dem Promises. So long story short. Feel free to sell me on your candidate, but I will not suffer negative messages telling me why I should hate someone. I only want your arguments for somebody. You should do that too, but you don't have to. Obviously it's free country. Sort of.

Now that that's out of the way. This is sort of. Well, that's why we're having this election. Didn't have that free country back. So now that that's all out of the way, I was really surprised last week when I found out we have a lot of nine to 15 year olds that listened to us. What? Yes.

And I specifically wanted to give a shout out to a young woman named Ali and her friend Emily. I believe they're in Maryland. Ali is a Girl Scout and I just wanted to say thank you and hello. And he thanks for listening. Ali by the way is a fantastic name. And not too many people know this, but I'm a gold award recipient. I spent a lot of years as a Girl Scout Camp counselor,

as a camp counselor, and Ali spends her summers as a peer counselor for kids who have autism. I think she's 12, and she's inspired by her amazing brothers who have autism. And she also made her family go. She made her family go to DC and volunteer with Chef Andres and his organization during the government shutdown.

And these young women come from active duty military families. So, Allie and Emily, thank you for your service to our country and keep being awesome. That's awesome. All right, lots of profound news this week. Jordan is going to cover a possible end run around double jeopardy laws in case Trump pardons Manafort. Jalisa has a report on Wilbur Ross violating government ethics. No.

I'm going to take a trip down memory lane with you as we go over our past and present coverage of Trump working with Muhammad Bonsa. That's the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia to build a nuclear bomb, sometimes. And we have constitutional law professor and former US attorney, Harry Litman. But before that, let's get into the news with just the facts.

All right, guys, all the get into the news with just the facts. All right, guys, all the way back to the beginning of the week, we learned that Cambridge Analytica director Brittany Kaiser, who worked with Aaron Banks, Brexit, and leave EU, has been subpoenaed by Mueller in the investigation into collusion between Trump and Russia. So not only is she cooperating fully, but she's also assisting with other US congressional and legal investigations into Cambridge Analytica. She is now the second person connected to Cam Anna, a Sange and WikiLeaks, along with Sam Patton. And those are the two people so far that have been contacted by Muller. So keep an eye out for a cooperation agreement there. Maybe you want to draft her for a cooperation agreement. Then of course, Andrew McBabe, my boyfriend,

came out, not out, but he went out and made the rounds this week to promote his forthcoming book. For a detailed report on this, you can check out our midweek episode from last Wednesday. Jordan takes a deeper dive into that. But the main takeaways here are that after the firing of James Comey, it was McCabe that opened the investigation into Trump at the FBI.

But what's important to understand here is that he didn't open a separate investigation into Trump for obstruction or a separate investigation into Trump for national security reasons or criminal activities. He actually just added Trump's name to the existing FBI investigation into Russia. And the obstruction piece was added as a counterintelligence piece, as collusion and conspiracy, not just

obstruction as we think of it. If you recall, we've talked about obstruction being the collusion because firing Comey was a national security threat, because it undermined the FBI's ability to investigate Russia. So in order to ensure that the investigation into Trump couldn't be killed, he added Trump an obstruction to the existing Russia probe.

So if anyone tried to fire all the FBI people who knew about it or tried to install people who would shut down that investigation, that person would have to shut down the Russia probe and an obstruction of justice investigation, making that person a potential accessory to the obstruction. So it was really a brilliant move, and it guaranteed Rosenstein would have to appoint a special council, whether he's been on our side this whole time or not. It was kind of forced into it in that in that respect. And anyone who says McCabe isn't a hero is just incorrect.

I personally believe he was framed for a lack of a better term, for that lack of candor that he was fired for, because he was investigating Trump in sessions, along with the rest of the Comi-5. They were all fired too, right? Weird. But it couldn't kill the investigation, because of the way he set it up. Another interesting thing McCabe said was when asked if he was investigating the Trump kids or Kushner before Mueller was appointed, he said he didn't feel comfortable talking about that, because it's an open and ongoing investigation. And then he corrected himself saying, because it could be an open and ongoing investigation. Whoops. And then another biggie, Jordan, and you talked about this

in the midweek episode, McCabe briefed the gang of eight. He did, yeah. And what's important about that is that GOP members were present as we just, you know, went over and nothing was said. There was no sort of protest when he announced that to them and that's something to note because then they came out after that and had all these issues with it obviously and it's like, well, what about when I was telling you, bros? Yeah, bros brosus. Nunez bro. Yeah, and that's the thing. Nunez isn't part of the gang of eight. Wait.

No, he was. No, he was. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he's in tell committee. And he was there. And apparently McCabe told Natasha Bertrand that the White House quote, immediately knew the steps I took after Jim got fired and the cases I opened because of Nunez. When I was surprised to see Nunez at the briefing, I knew it would happen very quickly.

Unquote. So we're going to be reading his books. When I was surprised to see newness at the briefing, I knew it would happen very quickly. Mm-hmm. On quote. So we're going to be reading his books. So stick around for those bonus episodes if you're a patron. What, that's just crazy to me. That, right, that they didn't say anything in the meeting. Yeah, no one objected. Everyone was like, yeah, cool.

Right. Make it happen. And he did. And then Trump fired him and all of his friends who had anything to do with it. Yeah. I wonder if it was a thing where he was like, was he announcing that he had already opened that investigation or added his name to the investigation or was he saying that he intended to?

I didn't catch that. Yeah, no, he was saying I've already done it, right? Yeah, I put Trump in the subject line basically, and his obstruction, because it's national intelligence. It's national security issue. Yeah. I wonder if they were just sitting there like, well, I guess what's done is done. I'll Because it's national intelligence. It's national security issue. Yeah. I wonder if they were just sitting there like, well, I guess what's done is done. I'll go bitch you bad at later.

Save this all some time here. And then Nuno's just gets up and runs. Yeah. And that grunts. Guys, guys. What a turd. I know, I'm not children. We learned Monday, Rod Rosenstein's leaving the Department of Justice.

And this isn't surprising, guys. Whenever a new attorney general comes in, they usually bring their own deputy attorney general. I wouldn't read into the leaving of Rosenstein, the appointment of Barr, and the anticipated end of the Mueller probe. It's all probably coincidence, so those are beans, space beans. And I'll be talking with Harry Littman in the interview later about the ways in which Mueller could wrap this thing up So hang out for that and our opinion on whether or not this thing is over Oddly though, we learned this week that William Barr's son in law not son, but son in law is leaving the DOJ to work in the White House Counsel's office and Barr's oldest daughter is headed to work for the Treasury for the financial crimes unit. Oh go good. Finn sent. Yeah

So no nepotism there. Right. I could have at least done like parks and rec or something. It's probably not weird. I bet if we looked at some Obama administration stuff that some family members or some associates were given jobs from those who were in the cabinet. So yeah.

It's just that's the very field that relates to what's being investigated as sketchy. Yeah. Really? That's where you want to go with the cabinet. So yeah, it's just that's the very field that relates to what's being investigated. Yes, financial crime. Yeah, it's like, really? That's where you want to go with the Treasury, the one that lifted sanctions on all like Daripaska, that's where you're going. Right. Hmm. Uh, then Tuesday news came out about a plan to build nuclear reactors in Saudi Arabia. Oh my gosh, we've never heard of this before. Uh, I'll be covering that in the hot notes. Also Tuesday, a massive New York Times piece dropped summing up all the ways Trump has obstructed justice.

And since we've kept our own list over the last year and a half, much of this isn't new to you guys. So we won't bore you with those details with that cafe of obstructions. That's the collective noun for obstructions of justice. We decided, but there were a few things in there that were new to us, to me, and then therefore us. First of which is that Trump asked Matthew fucking Whitaker to put Berman in charge of

the Cohen investigation in the Southern District of New York after he recused himself, which one makes Whitaker a liar in his congressional testimony and explains why they want him back to clarify his bullshit. And two, what's up with Trump trying to get people to unrecuse themselves? That's his thing. He did that with sessions, to get people to unrecuse themselves? That's his thing. He did that with sessions, if you remember, unrecuse yourself. It's not a thing, bro. And three, this seems like obstruction of justice, though.

It may not rise to the level of criminality needed to prosecute it, but there's certainly a pattern here. Throw it on the pile, like I like to say. Asking one guy to unrecuse himself to help you out, but two dudes. And speaking of the Southern District of New York, Trump and Trump being pissed at Whitaker for the Cohen charges, remember that. There's rumors swirling around now that the Southern District could indict Trump, ignoring the Department of Justice policy, saying a sitting president can't be indicted.

And I'm hoping bar is good enough friends with Mueller to allow that to happen, or at least whoever takes over that case. Maddo has been hinting that she's got a special report. She had a special report coming up about the Southern District of New York this week. So we were waiting patiently for that. And I have here that my dream, my justice porn, would be if prosecutors in the Southern District of New York come out and say, quote, we filed a sealed indictment against Trump to stop the clock on statute of limitations. It will drop the minute you leave office and you will go to jail or you can resign

and forfeit your businesses and your foundation and shut up. Yes. That would be the beauty. And then I could have jailed it all. Yeah. And so everyone was anticipating this Rachel thing and she started out talking about Bush and DuCockus and everyone's like, what the fuck Rachel? Is this going to be another one of your tax document things? And I'm like, no, no, no, I know where she's going, because Bush is connected to Agnew, and Agnew was, took the deal for resigning instead of being indicted from the Southern District of New York, oddly, and then she had all these new papers

about how he conspired with Saudi Arabia to get funding anti-propaganda funding to fight the Jews. Okay, which is what Trump has done with Bezos. I mean, it's not fighting the Zionists, but he might see him that way. I don't know. He's pretty tapped into Israel though. He likes BB a lot. And, um, it's that an end, yeah. Yeah. But that whole idea of using the Saudis for propaganda, which he did with AMI. And then it's like the parallels with Agnew, and I'm like, here's where she's going. She's going to go to the Southern District of New York, indicting him. And she did.

And she talked about the, she had on the guys who wrote the policy, Neil Katyal for the special counsel, the one that says you can and died is sitting president. And she talked about how that, what that was based on is really shaky. And nobody really knows for sure if you can indict a sitting president, it's not really clear in the Constitution. Harry Lippmann and I talk about it a little bit later on in the show, so stick around for that.

But that was a really interesting report. So we put beans on it, beans came true. The other thing that was in this New York Times obstruction article was the mystery that surrounded the firing of Michael Flynn We had thought that Trump waited 18 days and then fired him Either because he's a chicken shitter because Putin wasn't allowing Trump to fire him and finally he was forced out by someone with half a brain Like McMaster or something said you got a fire this fucking guy

Sally Yates warned you Obama warned you like you've been warned. He's lied to the FBI He's compromised by Russia even if he's a a good guy he can't be a national security it can't be in charge of national security when you're compromised by russia as it turns out Flynn seems to have resigned on his own and the reason we know that is because some folks familiar with the matter say that after Flynn left trump and his advisors were sitting around trying to decide how to spin it to the public. And someone in the room said, hey, Paul Ryan told people that you forced him to resign.

And Trump then told Sean Spicer, yeah, tell him that. That sounds better. Yeah, that's the ticket. So wow, Flynn must have been cooperating by then, because we know from Mueller's filings, he cooperated early and hard, a lot like he really cooperated. So who knows how many of those 18 days Flynn was working for Mueller. I'd like to think all of them. Wire perhaps?

He might have had a FISA warrant out on him. People talk about, you know, Rosenstein said he wore a wire. They might have gotten a FISA on Trump, you know, based on McCabe's adding that whole thing and the firing of Comey, he could have been under a FISA warrant. And who knows, we'll see. And maybe that's why Trump's off-faces ridiculous. I mean, when you think about the things he attacks,

he usually attacks him because they're after him. So, I don't know, we'll see. Hey, don't see him attack him, make'll see. Hey, don't see them attack and make Donald's. No, for sure. No. And the funny thing that you mentioned that, there, another building in New York is voted to take Trump's name off. The residents have said we're voting to take Trump's name off thing. And there's, I guess it's actually a true statistic that Trump will have fewer

things named after him after he's's president, then any other president? Somebody was like, they're going to change the name of McDonald's to Macbabs. Oh my God. Oh, that's so funny. That's why he chooses McDonald's because his name is in it, isn't it? It's got to be. It's the Irish me. Oh my God.

So not only did Trump never fire Flynn, but get this, there was an internal White House memo, confidential memo listing out all the lies they planned to tell us about why Flynn was gone. So it was a cover-up. And I love how they have to put together these lie memos so they can remember what they lied about to the American public. That memo could be exhibit number one in impeachment article number one for misleading the public. And I imagine the House Dems will subpoena that memo. If not, guys do it. I know you listen. And they might submit, we need all your bullshit memos,

all your lie memos, just hand them over. Anyway, I put some beans on it. It'll be interesting. This, there's a lot left to investigate. Most definitely. I'm so glad that the House is run by Democrats right now. Then later Wednesday, things started heating up. We learned Cohen got his prison sentence postponed for March 9th to May 9th. This delay was granted for two reasons. First, his shoulder surgery and his congressional

testimony, right? Cohen has agreed that during this delay, he's going to testify behind closed doors before the House and Senate Intelligence committees on Tuesday and Thursday of this week and he's going to testify before the House Oversight Committee publicly this Wednesday, where we're all be calling and sick to work. This is where Democrats plan to question him about Trump business practices. The chair of the Oversight Committee Elijah Cummings wrote a letter outlining everything they plan to address, which means that these are the things that he's going to be allowed to talk about.

So here they are. First of all, the president's debts and payments relating to efforts to influence the 2016 election, debts and payments. Damn. Interesting. Trump's compliance with financial disclosure requirements. Trump's compliance with campaign finance laws and tax laws.

Trump's potential actual conflicts of interest His business practices his international hotel in DC the accuracy of Trump's public statements How do you even testify to that like where do we start? We're gonna be here for seven days I know start with Sarah Sanders And then also Trump's fraudulent practices by the Trump foundation. That's who Julie Sayonou you usually draft them for your fancy indictment league and public efforts by the president and Giuliani to intimidate Mr. Cohen or others. Others.

Okay. To testify not to testify I should say. And in other Cohen news, the New York Times reported Friday that Cohen met with Southern District prosecutors in Manhattan offering info about irregularities with the Trump organization. And about that $900,000 donation from Zubari. He's the one person named in the Trump inaugural subpoena. And some weirdness is surrounding in fraudulent insurance claims filed by the Trump organization. Fraudulent insurance claims, okay.

Though Cohen hasn't signed an official cooperation agreement, the help he's giving could reduce his sentence and I think that's probably why he's doing it. Cohen's lawyer, Lanny Davis, in the Southern District of New York have declined to comment. If you'll remember when the sentencing recommendations were filed in the Cohen case, Mueller went pretty easy on him. He's like, give him whatever. But the Southern District was pissed because he wasn't fully cooperating. Though it seems now, maybe he is, because he'd gone in starting on Martin Luther King Day. Because I remember we were all,

aren't the offices closed and Cohen's there? That's weird, remember that? But he was there and apparently that's when he started spilling his guts. We kid, I want you to spill your guts, tell us everything. Everything. Everything. Everything. spill in fifth grade. I got my sister 80 thousand stairs and I blamed it on the dog Guys, I can't help but wonder why he didn't offer up this information in the first place unless he himself is implicated in the insurance fraud or maybe his family is with the Trump org and And now he's willing to talk about it. I guess I assume we'll find out. Yeah, maybe they just didn't get to it

There's too much time taking up already by all the other things He forgot there's so many crimes. Yeah, maybe they just didn't get to it. There's too much time taking up already by all the other things. He forgot. There's so many crimes. Yeah. Oh yeah, the insurance fraud claims. I completely forgot. Yes. Yeah. And I wonder what the caverns of my crime mind. I, I, he can still go and testify to me with all of these different, you know, prosecutors, even when he's in jail, right? They get still take him out and chains or whatever they do. Yep. Yeah. Put that little waste belt chain on him with the handy things. And he can't really take big steps because he's got his little shackles on.

Take a subway handcuff him to a pole or something. Like speed. I guess they'd use a card in that scenario. Yeah, they probably pick him up. Give him a ride. They're nice. Yeah. Anyway, I would. Did you hear what kind of insurance fraud? No, they were just fraudulent insurance claims. Maybe they try to claim a dumpster fire. Yeah, I'm I'm my first thought went to the fire and Trump tower Yeah, did Cohen set the fire like

Yeah, what the fuck That would be amazing like it burned the the evidence, then I'll try to claim. Right. It's gotta be, here's my guess, and you can put super space beans on this. It's probably real property insurance damage claims that Cohen did himself. Like Cohen, like Trump's like,

I need some cash. Do it your bank won't talk to me this week. I don't know why. Can you go light a fire and drop tower or have some, you know, right? Yeah. And if you could also burn documents and implicate me at the same time, that'd be awesome.

Yeah, or just go fall down some stairs and collect the money and give it to me. Like, what is it? I'm really interested, but I bet it has to do with real estate and destruction of property and maybe that Cohen caused it. Or Schiller, maybe Keith Schiller is body man that we haven't heard from in a while and destruction of property and maybe that Cohen caused it. Or, Schiller, maybe a key Schiller is body man,

that we haven't heard from in a while, that's gotten paid $225,000 for doing nothing. For the last year. I don't know. Super Space Beans, we'll be right back. Thanks to Rothy's for supporting Mueller, she wrote, Rothy's are easily the most comfortable pair of shoes I own and they do it all while being sustainable.

Rathies flats are not only comfortable and sustainable, but they look amazing. They come in all kinds of colors and prints and they come in four styles including flat, point, loafer and the sneaker. So I can transition from my professional day job to casual happy hour without having to change my shoes. I love that about them. I mentioned their sustainable, which is a big plus for us here at Muller Shee Road and Rathie's makes their flats from recycled water bottles and the guys they've kept 20 million plastic bottles out of landfills and oceans and that's amazing. I got the black flat and I love it. I love the comfort and I like the non-slip souls. What kind did you guys get? I got

the leopard print loafers. They're really cute and fancy but they're so comfy. Yeah yeah it's like you don't want to take them off. Yeah. Yeah, I got some black sneakers. I love those. They match everything, obviously, and they have a really cool stripe down the back. I add to my accent of color, and they are seriously like the most comfortable pairs of shoes I have right now. Yeah, Jordan, you wear them while you're serving. I do. Yeah, the comedy club. I bet it helps that they're machine washable. Absolutely. Yeah, I was a sweat. I bet it helps that they're machine washable. Absolutely. Yeah, it's a sweat. Yes, and spill stuff all over your shoes.

And also that, if anyone's worked in the service industry, you know the machine washable is a huge plus. Absolutely, and they're very breathable too. It's great, great, and mine are, I love them so much. We love Rothy's, we know you will too. And right now, Rothy's has an amazing deal for our listeners. Use code A-G at checkout to get free shipping

with no minimum. That's free shipping, free returns, all hassle free, no cost exchanges, though you won't want to return them, I swear. Just go to Rothis.com, that's R-O-T-H-Y-S dot com, and enter AG to get your new favorite flats with free shipping. She's the uncomfortable, stylish, and sustainable, always free shipping. Get yourself a pair today at Rothies.com, promo code AG. You'll be glad you did.

Okay, guys, welcome back. We're on Wednesday when we left off, right? And Wednesday, CNN and the Washington Post joined NBC and Matthew fucking Whitaker and reporting that the molar report would be out this week. The end is nine. The kingdom of heaven is at hand. You ain't just withland Dixie. Armageddon is almost upon us. This week, the end is nigh. Or is it?

I'll be talking about the different scenarios later in the interview with Harry Littman, along with some late breaking news from the Associated Press about the Mueller report timeline a little bit later. So stick around for that. Then Thursday, we learned that the Senate Intelligence Committee wants to question Moscow-based American business man. His name is David Giovannis. He has ties to Trump because witnesses told them the Senate Intelligence Committee that he could shed light on the President's commercial and personal business deals in Russia, dating all the

way back to the 90s. So apparently this guy, G. Ivana, traveled to Russia with Trump in 1996 to start pursuing a Trump tower deal in Moscow. Years later, G. Ivana worked for Olegg Darapaska. So keep him in your pocket for the fantasy indictment league. He's being questioned by the Senate Intelligence Committee. I'm sure Mueller's probably already gotten to him. And Roger Stone appeared in court Thursday after Judge Jackson called him back after he

posted a photo of her with crosshairs next to her head on Instagram. And it's either crosshairs or the Celtic cross, which is a white power symbol. Either way, bad look. So then he took down the post, removed the crosshairs, and then put it back up. And then he took down the whole post. And then his lawyers filed an apology with the court, which is weird. I've never seen that happen. So Jackson called him back in. He's like, she's like, get the fuck back in here. She slapped a full gag order.

I'm just like we thought, saying if he violates it, which I'm sure he will, she will quote, find it necessary to adjust your environment. Unquote. Which means I will put your fucking head in the whole rest of you in jail. His head's weird. That's why I separated. I can imagine her parenting like that. I don't know, like as a discipline area. I can adjust your environment. I'm not done just your environment. Yeah. After her kid, for us, a photo of her with the crosshairs.

We got some bigger problems, kid. How long do you think it'll be before he violates the gag order if he hasn't already? I don't, it depends on I guess if his lawyers can get through to him at all. I'm not sure they can, so I'm gonna say two weeks. I said four days. And I say that because it's not just him that has to be quiet, it's his associates. He'd have to wrangle in all of his associates too. So that should be funny. His next status update hearing in court is set from March 14th. Oh, okay. So we'll find out. Put that on your calendar. And your sexy justice calendar. That'd be hard to reign all those people in for sure. What a circus.

I know. He's like, wait a minute. Nobody that I know can speak on my behalf. Can I, I wanted to know so badly if he was like, can I do the Nixon sign out front of the court house or is that violate the guy's order? And so after she handed his ass to him, he walked out the courtroom didn't say anything, didn't look up, didn't do his salute, just walked right to his car. Fucking asshole. In other stone news, Mueller rebuffed stones accusation that he leaked his indictment to CNN ahead of the arrest in a court filing on Friday. Quote, the order does not state,

as many unsealing orders do, that the indictment shall remain sealed until further order from the court. Rather, the order conditioned the unsealing of the indictment on one event, the defendant's arrest. So, idiot Trump is Trump supporters Fox News and even Matthew Fucking Whitaker were accusing Mueller of leaking the indictment to the press saying there's no way CNN could have known about it otherwise. We knew about it so and we don't have a newsroom. So yeah well and you're like the most major news organization in the country. I think they're not going to be staking out at any potential headline right Shimon Prokopez is like we were staking out a lot of houses that day

Yeah, he was just one of them the other ones turned up nothing we got one like every Friday we're at Kushner's house Junior's house stones house or wherever they are sounds like a party I mean we're a news organization. That's what we do. That's amazing. They're just hiding behind the bushes everywhere they come out, like, oh, how's it going?

Oh, hey. And then they back it, like nothing happens. They back away like Homer. Maybe they delivered news for them, like pick up their newspaper and just leave handed to them. Yeah, I hope so, and then brought me my mail today. Thanks, guys. You want some coffee?

I mean, I want coffee. Also, Thursday Thursday we learned that Wilbur Ross has his financial disclosures have been rejected by a federal ethics agency, Jelisa. We'll have more on that for us in hot notes. Friday, we found out Bloomberg news, has an article that the New York Attorney General is teeing up criminal charges or has teed up criminal charges against Manafort. Jordan's going to talk to us. Indeed. About that later. And then later Friday, and this is the best, talking about Stacon Out offices.

Somebody spotted a person dressed up as a parrot hanging out in the revolving door in the building where Mueller's office is. And basically, there was a CNN crew camped out front because that's what they do. And as it turns out, the parrot was banging its face against the glass and moond the CNN crew. So apparently there's a parrot called the Mueller parrot. That's actually German Mueller parrot, but that's how Mueller actually would pronounce his name

if he were in Germany. We have nothing further on this story, other than it's awesome. There was a guy dressed as a parrot, mocking the sea and camera crew. I wonder if it's a metaphor. Like the parrot represents something. I don't know.

Yeah, is it a Trump supporter? I don't know. I think it's just somebody like, hey, this is the Mueller office, nothing's happening, third, third. And the only suit they have is a parrot suit. They'd probably show up in whatever costume they had unless it's the Mueller parrot. Oh Like the actual yeah, it's just clever then yeah, it's just funny You said they post up in the revolving door. Yeah, they were in the revolving door just revolving

Huh, maybe it's like head on the glass trying to lose some weight or something just walking around constantly I only have a still picture of from Twitter, but that's so funny to me. I'm so curious about that. I know. And he moaned to the camera crew. Like, you're not getting anything from us today. Well, would you interview the Mueller period on the show?

I would. I definitely would. That'd be great. I hope they're just like, a whole time. Yeah. I don't know how paired sound. Sabrina.

Brr. Oh, man. That's kooky. It's so great. Yeah, I'm surprised they let that happen Well, they probably weren't expecting I guess but you think so I'd be like um, there's a parrot in the door They just tackle and we're gonna yeah, you know call animal control. No, it's a human dress as a parrot Moaning the camera cruise. Oh, oh my god, yes. Then the Daily Beast reported Friday that, and this is a big story, an Italian expose came out documenting funding of Italy's far-right Salvini. That's a guy coming from the Cremlin, okay? So Putin's backing this far right guy in Italy. Back in

October, the Interior Minister and Vice Premier of Italy, Mateo Salvini, disappeared while visiting Moscow, went off the grid for 12 hours, and apparently he was making backroom deals with Russian operatives ahead of the European parliamentary elections. Russian oil profits were found to have been funneled back to Italy to fund Salvinis party to help it engage in social media manipulation ahead of the male actions. One official on Salvinis team says, quote, we want to change Europe together with our allies like Strasza in Austria, alternative for Deutschland in Germany, Marine Le Pen in France, or Bonn in Hungary, and Sphigedo, Macarena.

Macarena? Yeah, the Macarena in Sweden, because that is fascist. The Macarena is fascist. Dance the way you want to. Don't be forced into the moves. Don't even give me a sard of the cha-cha slide. Soldier boy. Oh yeah.

Oh God. Did you ever do that, AG? Did you ever dance the Soldier boy? No. My favorite band was the cure. So, no, but I know the song. Totally. Yeah, that was me and Jelisa Zera in high school. That's a good one.

Yeah, no, our era was the Macarena. So, in high school, but I did not dance the Macarena. Either, anyway, I grew up in Superman-ing that home. Swerigada-Mock-Roterna. Swerigara-Mock-Roterna, that's it.verigatta mock retarna. Sverigatta mock retarna. That's it. And that's a Swedish guy. All those leaders happen to be a part of Steve Bannon's new movement coalition of right-wing

leaders hoping to take you're up by storm into May elections, by the way. Those are all the right-wing guys. Yeah. We're just another part of that grandmaster plan. Can't you see? Yeah. Why can't Trump see that? We're not special.

You're not just another pawn. Yeah big pretty fucking big one. Yeah a pond across the pond It's so much more work for them us being all the way over here, isn't it? I guess so long distance. Thank you for the internet. Yeah long distance relationships are hard definitely right? Oh my god, like you're like don't even let me start Right? Oh my god. Like, you're like, don't even let me start. Also Friday, we learned that the District Attorney in North Carolina is going to convene a grand jury within the next month to look into the criminality of the botched congressional

election there. If you remember, that election was plagued by fraud when it was found that Republicans were stealing mail ballots by collecting them door to door and throwing them away or forging them. And Jordan, I remember when you and I went out, going knocking door to door and throwing them away or forging them. And Jordan, I remember when you and I went out, going knocking door to door from Mike Levin, and the campaigner said if they want to, they can turn their mail ballot,

mail and ballot into you. And I'm like, really? That's weird. I wouldn't give my ballot to anybody. And so these people figured that out, and they were collecting ballots, mail and ballots, changing them, forging them, or just throwing them away

so harris the guy uh... will it see her uh... i hope they indict harris first of all he's a republican who who now he's now called for a do-over election yeah of course now uh... because he was apparently crying in court when his son testified that is father had indeed cheated oh god brutal so he was crying and it pleased me. I know that's probably terrible, but I don't care.

You cheated in an election and I'm a veteran, so I hate your face. Yeah. Cry away. Damn. Mix no cones with your tears. What a snitch that kid. That's a patriot right there. Seriously.

Also Friday, the Associated Press says that the Mueller report is not coming out this week. Despite NBC, CNN, Ken Delaney, and Matthew Fucking Whitaker, Trump, and the Washington Post saying it would. Trump said when asked that there was no collusion, there was no collusion, there were no phone calls, there was nothing. And he said, if the report says, if it's a good report, it'll say that I'm innocent. If it's an honest report, it'll say I'm innocent. But if it doesn't say that, we know the report isn't honest. But first of all, nobody asked you about any phone calls. So it's weird that you just throw that in there. Yeah. No phone calls to real Giuliani move. It was, right? It's just threw it out there. Like, that's what we're talking about.

Don't ask many questions. Just let them talk. What phone calls is the phone calls he may maybe the DTJ ones or something? I think I have the order one. No phone calls on my phone. Fucking dumbass. The bodies aren't in the basement. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, I shouldn't have said cupcakes, bye. Weirdo. And if the report says I'm innocent, it's good. If it does, it's disa- Who says that?

Yeah, that's a very rudimentary way of interpreting the findings of that. If a innocent good, if I'm not bad, then it's a lie. Really? Wow. Yeah, the report's only honest if it says I'm great dumbass. Then some great news this came out this week. This is happy news. This is something we can all celebrate and this happened in the Jeffrey Epstein case. He's the guy that had parties where he would buy underage models to pass around to his gross rich friends, underage models.

And about three dozen documented cases of underage sex victims, though the actual number is at least over a hundred. And the attorney general in Florida at the time named Acosta handed Epstein a sweetheart of a deal where he didn't really have to go to jail. It was a work release program where he spent a few hours a day in his own private low security cell, kind of like going to the office, and then he spent the night at home and he and his high-profile friends were all given non-proscution agreements and they weren't charged. It's different from immunity, if you to note that. And he paid lame fine and Acosta, the AG that let him off the hook, is Trump's current labor secretary. The guy in charge of sex and human trafficking is this guy.

Yeah. Like right this second, he hasn't resigned. And a federal judge this week ruled that Acosta, that that's the AG and the current labor secretary, violated the law by not speaking to the victims before offering Epstein the deal. The ruling comes over 10 years after the victim sued for not being informed of the plea deal, as is required by law Basically if a fine of victim and the the lawyer is working out a plea deal with my attacker

They have to inform me they didn't do that And so 10 almost 11 years later a federal judge found that they violated the law so And then Friday we learned that the White House says it's looking into it. We're looking into the Acosta's role in the case. Sure. Yeah, whatever. There are reports that Trump attended these parties that Epstein threw, and that he might

have been the one who supplied the underage models. He owned a modeling agency at the time. We also know Bill Clinton and Alan Dershowitz, who's oddly vocal against this ruling, attended these parties. Combine that with the news that the New England Patriots owner Kraft, along with 24 others, were busted in a sting operation for getting handies at a Jupiter-Florida rub-and-tug called the Orchid Spa, which incidentally is situated pretty close to Mar-a-Lago and in the same strip mall as a Trump Spa.

Oh, sorry about your patriots. It's fine. I mean, at this point, nothing really would make us care. So. We won. Get over it. Everyone's just jelly. I'm just kidding.

I only make that joke. Just he got his balls to play this. Yes. Well, I mean, it doesn't really bother me that, like, someone engaged in sex work, really. It's kind of weird to me to actually that people are shaving that so much as this, you know, like horrible, morally corrupt thing or whatever. But that just could be because I am a patriot to him.

And I also think prostitution should be legal. Yeah, exactly. And so I don't have any problem with this. But apparently these women in this spa are forced to be there. Oh, I did not know that. They're, I think, really? Yeah. And that's why it was getting, like, staked out or something. I think so. Well, that's fucking awful. I think really? Yeah. And that's why it was getting like staked out or something.

I think so. Well, that's fucking awful. I didn't know that. I have a problem with that for sure. Yeah, it's true. I don't think it's just prostitution. I think it's human trafficking. Oh, Jesus. But why isn't that in the headlines? I don't know. And maybe it's because they haven't determined if that's the case yet or not. If these were willing sex workers. Yeah. God, that's awful. All right. Well, then I willing sex workers. Yeah, God, that's awful. All right, well, then I take that back. Obviously, there's a line also. That was a joke.

There's definitely something that would make me. You know, but also what the hell does the owner do? He just holds the trophy. That's all he does, fucking useless. I thought you met the owner of the spa for a second. Oh, no. There's a trophy? That's handy.

All right, no. Lord, I'm the owner of a sports team. I'm sorry. It's how I connect with my dad, okay? It's totally fine. I have to be a Cleveland Brown's fan and I don't want to. So I get it. You guys will be right back. This episode of Mollershi wrote is brought to you by Buffy. The best comforter you've ever slept with. With over 11,000 reviews everyone agrees it's the softest, fluffiest comforter they've ever had, and the best part, the filling is made from recycled water bottles, and the fabric is plant-based eucalyptus, which is really breathable and soothing to your skin. That means if you sleep hot, like I do, it keeps you cool and comfortable, or if you sleep

cool, like the other side of the pillow, you'll stay warm and cozy. The pod cats love to make caves in it, and the super soft eucalyptus-y goodness means their fur doesn't stick to it, and for me it's really awesome for my sensitive skin, so I sleep through the night and I wake up refreshed. But it's really the added bonus of the sustainability, as eucalyptus uses 10 times less water to cultivate them cotton, and so far, Buffy has kept over 3.5 million bottles out of landfills in the ocean. Best of all it's hypoallergenic and blocks dust mites, mold, and other allergens that can prevent

you from getting your best night sleep. Buffy believes betting is personal, so they're offering a complimentary trial. Try a comforter in your own home for 30 days, and if you don't love it, return it free. Right now, Buffy is offering $20 off to our listeners, so head to Buffy.com and enter code AG at checkout for $20 off your Buffy Comforter. That's Buffy.com promo code A.G. for $20 off today. You'll be glad you did. All right, welcome back. Hot notes. All right guys, today, Jordan, you have a story about New York prepping state

charges against Manafort but first Jalisa you have some news about Wilbur Ross Yes so by the way I love Kate McKinnon's Wilbur Ross. She's really good at the old man impressions. Something about that. She is. There aren't the Melissa McCarthy Sean Spicer. I'm so sad he wasn't around for longer so that she could just keep doing that care. Well, she immortalized him more than he ever could. Right. Exactly.

So on Tuesday, we learned from CNN that commerce secretary and real-life Scooby-Doo villain Wilbur Ross submitted an inaccurate financial disclosure form to the office of government ethics. Basically, he lied about selling his bank stock, as required within 90 days after he was confirmed to be commer secretary. And as a result, his financial disclosure form was rejected. D-N-I-D. This is a huge red flag because apparently this doesn't happen very often. Even George W. Bush's former ethics attorney said he'd never seen a cabinet members financial disclosure form rejected in this way. He said agencies sometimes send a financial disclosure draft to the office of government

ethics for review, but even then if something comes up it's usually dealt with behind the scenes. So it's almost like they're trying to set an example of Ross. And in a pretty vague statement he replied, while I am disappointed that my report was not certified, I remain committed to complying with my ethics agreement and adhering to the guidance of Commerce Ethics officials. So there's that my report was not certified, I remain committed to complying with my ethics agreement and adhering to the guidance of Commerce Ethics Officials. So there's really no admission of guilt there, although he did sell the stock as soon as he claimed he learned about the issue in October, six months after he was supposed to sell the stocks, and Ross said he thought the stock was sold

and that there was just a miscommunication between him and his agent. He also said the stocks aren't really a big deal because they were only worth about $3,700. So specifically he said the amount was, quote, below the threshold of a possible conflict of interest. So yeah, since he's a billionaire, I guess $3,700 in stock is not really that big of a deal. It's too small to matter. He then finished off with saying that even if he was investigated for this while still owning the stocks, they would have found that he did nothing wrong, I guess, besides file a false report. So this isn't even new though. I mean Kushner did so many different financial reports and like corrections and all this. I mean, it should be news, but it's just another day in the Trump administration Yeah, and I guess $3,700 is just like Nichols and Dimes to them really yeah

Yeah, that's pretty low when I found that out. I'm oh, we lied about $3,700 for right It's just it's silly right and then I feel like and you think about how some poor people are middle class people if they Like filled out in incorrect form for something with a government They could really be held accountable for that. So I wonder what's going to happen with him. Probably nothing. Yeah. Probably not as bad as if I filled out my health care report wrong or something. Right. For taxes. I know that that's happened. Yeah. You send that form and you're going to be charged with a lot of money. Oh yeah. That does seem like it wasn't really nefarious in intent that specifically though. I don't know.

He's like I'm just making money, everyone's making money. I think I'm not making anyone. Yeah, well also I could just imagine someone that has so many different stocks and stuff just, it's just slipping through the cracks kind of. Right, and that's the right answer man. You have to say that you sold it off and didn't sell it off. It's like, yeah, that seems like a lie at that point, but he's blaming his agents. So there's a bunch of other ones that if you had to be discovered,

that if you had them all up, it actually makes a lot of use. It's just about that, yeah. And even just making 3700 on the side like that, you can give that to your grandson and they'll be ballin'. So that's a lot of money to me. Side hustle. Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

You could buy the love of your relatives and sleep at night for $3,700 for sure. Yeah. And Trump's just going to be like, what for $3700. For sure. Yeah. And Trump's just going to be like, what? $3700? That's nothing. I own entire hotel chains.

I didn't divest my stock at all. Right. They're so disconnected that it doesn't even matter to them. Oh, ridiculous. But yeah, if you're in charge of finances, basically, you probably should not be reclined things like that. Yeah. And I'm sure that broad just came up when they were looking into other things like him heading up the sipri at bank or whatever

Like massive things. Yeah, like oh, and also you didn't sell this stock right? And it's just ties into Trump picking people that just shit on the department that they're in charge of I mean, that's been a common theme how to file and criminals yeah totally and people who hate Whatever department they run. Yeah. APA, education. Oh yeah. Oh, good time. Yeah. Only the best people.

Jordan, yes. You have a story about New York, A.G. Yes, yes. So Bloomberg reported that attorneys in the state of New York are starting to develop a roadmap, basically, for how Maniford could be charged in New York if Trump decided to pardon his Gaudi S. So attorney Cyrus Vance Jr. Amazing name. He's supposedly ready to file additional

tax charges against Manafort that would not fall victim to the double jeopardy law that they have there in New York, which has been problematic before. If you'll remember a ways back before Schneiderman was revealed as a creepyman. He was pushing for the state legislature to form its double jeopardy, reform its double jeopardy laws, which I think it's safe to say was basically originated from the fear that Trump was going to pardon all these people that are going to jail and getting charged. But that legislation wasn't really followed up on and New York still has superstrict double jeopardy laws like their way stricter than what the US Constitution lays out in terms of not being able to be tried for the same thing

two times that really reinforces that in that state. But Vance Jr. believes that they have enough on Manafort to charge him successfully in the state of New York without falling victim to yeah yeah, that those rules. So, for example, one of the things is, Maniford got convicted of federal tax fraud, right? Well, their state taxes so he could get convicted on state tax fraud crimes. And that would be considered something that's separate and doesn't count as the same thing, even though basically is. Yeah, and there were a couple talking heads arguing about how Americans would feel about

that. Like some guy said, a lot of Americans wouldn't go for, like, they would be upset that somebody was charged twice for the same thing. I personally would be upset if you didn't charge them for federal, for, for, dick and over federal taxes and dick and over state taxes. Definitely. Because they're different crimes. They are. And you've defrauded the state you live in and the people who live there and you've defrauded the treasury. Exactly in and the people who live there and you've defrauded the Treasury. Exactly.

So I'm for it personally. I don't think that's double jeopardy because they're too crime. Now if you tried them twice for federal taxes, yeah, I'd be against that. That's not constitutional to me. Yeah, it's like if you murdered two people, you wouldn't come out and say, oh, you know, it was the same sort of crime. So you can only charge him for murder one time. You charge him for all the different counts of it, and that's a different count, essentially. And when the money is going to different people, like you said, he winds up defrauding a whole different group of people. That's a whole different group of victims that deserve to have their own separate. Exactly.

Yeah. Because if you're in New York or you're double fucked they fucked you he he fucked you over on your Federal taxes that you paid and he fucked you over on your state taxes that you paid as a California I didn't get double fucked so he shouldn't be double charged right for what he did to me But the people who live in New York have been definitely good boy. Yeah totally So I think I think they're they're pretty confident that that's going to work if they do that. Also with insurance, they bring the charges if it was illegal. Right.

Definitely. Yeah, that'd be what a bummer to engage in that and have it not fall. I guess you have to try everything. But yeah, I think he's going to be successful and their office will be successful. If this happens, apparently people in his office have been investigating Manafort since 2017, so I'm pretty confident they have enough to get him if Trump decides to start pardoning people. And just a reminder on what the state of the, you know, the concept of pardoning someone is on behalf of the DOJ is currently Matthew Whitaker told lawmakers

February 8th that he had not had discussions about potential partens, but then when US rep Veronica Eskabar, who's the Texas dem, asked him what he knew of any part of documents that had been prepared, Whitaker responded, quote, I am aware of documents relating to partens of individuals, yes, and quote, and then there was no follow-up questions asked because the time ran out. Uh-uh, yeah. Your time has expired, reclaiming my time. Yes.

Reclimbed some time. So I'm just answering that question. Yeah. Yeah, and I, hmm. I know, I wish the media wasn't putting this out as their teaming up charges in case he's pardoned because I don't think that's what's going on here. I think they're going to file these charges regardless of whether he's pardoned.

They can do that. And it doesn't really have anything to do with whether or not he's pardoned. And they're not doing it to get back at Trump if he pardons Manafort and get Manafort in case he's pardoned. Like, that's not what this is about. This is about you broke the law in our state. You haven't been held accountable for that and we're gonna hold you accountable.

Yeah, I'm sure there's a sort of cost benefit analysis of if the time served he's getting on the federal case would be sufficient enough for them to not wanna spend more taxpayer dollars prosecuting him on the state level. Yeah, if he goes to prison for the rest of his life, why spend money on a trial? Yeah, there's goes to prison for the rest of his life, why spend money, why spend money on a trial? Yeah. There's no, that would be, then you would be, you know, misusing tax dollars, or at

least you wouldn't be a very good ward or steward of the taxpayer dollar. Yeah. Just to do it. Right, exactly. But then also the fines that he has to pay, maybe if those would exceed whatever it would cost the taxpayers, I don't think he's gonna have any money left after Mueller's done with it. Honestly, I think you're gonna give like $10 each to his kids and be like, wait a look. That's true. Can he pay the fines and then they can seize everything just so they can, or I guess, what, yeah,

what do they do with the things that they seize? What happens to that money? They're auctioned off. And the money goes to the government. I wanna be at that auction. I really do. I think we should get them all tax rebates. The money goes to the government? Yep want to be at that auction. I really do. I think we should get them all tax rebates. The money goes to the government?

Yep. Okay, so if it's the state, if the state is seizing, or getting the fines that goes to the state, if the federal government is the four-fitchers, like the asset four-fitchers, like that yacht we got, that's ours. You're talking for like items and stuff, right? Items are real estate or fines,

unless the restitution goes to any victims. Yeah. And in this case the victim is the United States Treasury. So we get that back as taxpayers. That's awesome. I never really thought of what happens after they take shit. They don't send it to us personally. I was gonna say, when am I getting my check? They spend it on missiles and road to stuff. Yeah. That is really like that has to be a show like a anti like a pond stars thing But just for things they've taken for like white collar criminals asset for that be so entertaining Yeah, that's a great idea. Yes, just a little ribs to yeah We're selling man-of-force house. Yeah, my whole house is furnished by people sitting in prison

Here's the acid bath. Yeah, yeah was Steve Bannon, by the way. That's right. We were questioning that. Who had the acid filled hot tub? That was Bannon. Jesus. All right. Guys, this week, the House opened an inquiry into the proposed US nuclear venture in Saudi Arabia. The New York Times article about this says that according to a report by House Democrats released Tuesday of this week, top Trump administration officials have pushed to build nuclear power plants in Saudi Arabia despite objections from White House lawyers who questioned the legality and ethics of the project that could make a lot of money for Trump and his allies

and they could make them very, very rich. And also there were people like HR McMaster and Mattis who were saying, you can't do this because of the nuclear proliferation treaty. That's just illegal. The report outlines this report that Congress released. It outlines how Mike Flynn worked with retired military officers to make an end run around policy

to develop a project that could bring nuclear weapons capabilities to the Middle East. According to the New York Times, quote, the plan called the Middle East. According to the New York Times, quote, the plan called the Middle East Marshall Plan could violate laws meant to stop nuclear proliferation. Unquote. Hmm, Marshall Plan. Where have we heard that before?

Sounds familiar, right? Let's listen to that clip. What's the matter? What's the matter? I talked a little bit early about about Flynn texting Copson, who's his business partner, from the day is while Trump is being inaugurated. He's on his phone, there's pictures of it, and he's texting him, this is it, we're going to get this done, we're going to rip, he's going to rip up sanctions.

And he's talking about, I think it's called the Marshall Plan. It's the nuclear plan, we're going to build nuclear reactors in the Middle East. And what's fucking scary is that, let me see if I can find it, because Copsin had said something to the effect of, yeah, we wanna build these reactors in the Middle East, and we're gonna need bases and troops to support and protect these reactors, which is a good pretext for our recolonization of the Middle East.

Guys, that clip is from episode six, which aired December 10th of 2017. And in that episode, Jolisa, you talk about the Mayflower meeting, and how KT McFarland was handpicked to be Flynn's Depseck. That's his number two. And how Bud McFarland, a long time Marshall plan architect, was there at the Mayflower meeting along with Jeff Sessions and a couple of ambassadors, including the Singapore ambassador. And after Katie McFarlane left as Depp Sec, he appointed her to be the Singapore ambassador, weirdly. And how Flynn and his friend Copson

from ACU, that's the name of his company, were planning to build nuclear reactors in Saudi Arabia using Russian oil aided by Eric Prince, a gas and pipeline guy, which is why the UAE set up that meeting with him and in the seashells and Russia to talk about lifting sanctions so they could do the deal. And then, oh, let's see, how about episode 18? This one's called Mifsood Ribca and Leaky Witnesses. It aired March 5th of last year. Let's listen to that clip. And this is nuts. On Monday, you guys, Rick Perry, canceled his trip to India. Rick Perry is the Secretary of Energy.

He was the governor of Texas. He was on Dancing in the Stars. He's an awful person overall, I said. He's just an idiot. He canceled his trip to India to head to Saudi Arabia to open up talks about building nuclear reactors in the region. And that's crazy because... You called it. Yeah, I definitely.

We called it. That's the Marshall Plan, you guys. You remember, I mean, we've had so many stories on this about Flynn texting Copson, his business partner on the day of stirring the inauguration saying that sanctions are going to be ripped up and we can move forward with the Marshall Plan. And Copson is saying great because we're going to have to build military bases to guard them and then we can recolonize the Middle East, like all that crazy stuff. And they need to partner with Russian oil, Rosneft and the UAE who set up the Seychelles

meeting with Rick Prince. Like they're all connected in there. Yeah. And now he's going to meet with Saudi Arabia to talk nuclear reactors. So, okay. Mm-hmm. Guys, we were so mad later in that episode

about why no one was talking about the Marshall Plan. We were like, why hasn't the media picked up on this? They're trying to recolonize the Middle East. This is scary shit. Or maybe we heard about it in an episode 40. This one was called Avenatti. Let's go party. Let's listen to that clip.

What? What? What? What? What? So according to the Wall Street Journal, a top Trump donor named Franklin Haney agreed to pay co in $10 million if he successfully helped obtain funding

for three dozen nuclear power plants in the Middle East. Oh no. A proposal submitted calling for finishing the bell font reactors in Alabama and then another $300 million to fund Middle East reactors over the next 40 years and that the company proposing, writing this proposal, would receive $1 billion annually.

And you know who wrote the proposal? Copson. Wow. Do you know who would partner with the US on building these reactors according to Copson's proposal? Who? Russia. The plan is to complete the reactors in Alabama

and then use them as training centers for the Middle East construction project. Copson also said repeatedly that Alabama's two senators could help pull the project together. Who was the senator at the time? In Alabama, there was Rich Shelby. Oh, wow. And you guessed it, Jeff Sessions. Oh my goodness. And guess what would have to go away to make this project happen?

Russian sanctions. It all is like a complete circle. That's insane. Nuclear being reported. Who reported that? Oh, I'd have to look it up. It's going to be in the notes. I have the story.

I know we touch on the Marshall plan, you know, here and there, but like, it's almost like every time we address it, there's, there's something that connects it. Nothing ever goes back and it's like, oh, maybe it's not that. It's like, it just gets, I mean, because it has to be something, right? It's, it's this not all going on for nothing. And we know sessions was at the Mayflower, which is the Marshall Plan meeting, basically with Bud McFarland, who was the mentee for KT McFarland. Right.

And you're going to be impressed when Bootina gets tied into this later in the show. So in that episode, we talked a little bit later on about how it was Bhutan that lobbied to get KT McFarland to work for Flynn. And it was the Center for National Inter to get KT McFarlane to work for Flynn, and it was the Center for National Interest that hosted the Mayflower meeting. Or maybe it was when we mentioned it in episode 56 on November 25th called the British Invasion. Let's check that one out. MBS has been negotiating with the Energy Department and the State Department, Rick Perry and Rex Tillerson

up until recently, to get the US to sell reactors to the Kingdom in a deal worth $80 billion. The rub is that Muhammad Boneson wanted to produce his own nuclear fuel, which makes no sense because you can buy it abroad for way cheaper. And this raised concerns with the United States Intelligence agencies that they were trying to enrich their own uranium to build a bomb. And that's exactly what Obama was concerned about with Iran, which is why we signed the Iran nuclear deal that Trump has since pulled out of. MBS even said earlier this year that if Iran develops a bomb, Saudi would follow as soon as possible.

And he would refuse to sign an agreement that would allow UN inspectors to inspect the fuel enrichment sites. Brad Sherman, who is a Democratic member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, has said, quote, a country that can't be trusted with a bonsa, shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons. But Saudi leaders saw an opening when Trump stole the election and flin back to plan that would have let Moscow and the US supply re-odd with reactors, but Russian sanctions would have to be dropped or eased. So now if we ask ourselves knowing everything we know now, why was there a push to drop

Russian sanctions, why KT McFarlane and Flynn and Tillerson were hired, why Trump refused to punish Muhammad Bonsoh for the murder of Khashoggi. I know you guys this is like the best of the Marshall Plan, but I wanted to give you guys a timeline of our reporting to frame the New York Times article that dropped this week because according to the House Oversight and Reform Committee, and this report that they put out, Trump was still considering some version of the Marshall Plan as recently as last week. Quote, further investigation is needed to determine whether the actions being pursued

by the Trump administration or in the national security interest of the United States, or rather serve those who stand to gain financially as a result of his potential change in U.S. foreign policy. So according to whistleblowers, that's how they got this report. A Flynn deputy for North African Affairs named Eric Harvey met with IP3 in March of 2017 to try to revive the Marshall Plan, saying Jared Kushner can present it to the president for approval. And apparently Kushner's efforts are continuing because he's scheduled to travel to Riyadh, Saudi Arabia this week to brief diplomats on Trump's Middle East peace plan.

Something else that popped up in Flynn's IP3 memos was the name Thomas Barich. We've been talking about him a little bit. In one memo from Flynn to Trump, Flynn advocated that Barich be named a special representative to carry out this nuclear plan. And there was even a draft memo from Trump telling federal agencies to support Barich in his efforts. And last week, Trump met with IP3 co-founder and former army general Keane, along with Michael Hewitt, and a guy named Bud McFarlane, to discuss the Marshall Plan in the White House.

Last week, apparently IP3 took over the project from Copson and his company, ACU, when the old school Republicans didn't want to work with Russia. Interesting. So why have we been yelling about this for over a year and they're only now picking up on it? Because coming, right, coming raised alarms, Elijah Cummings raised alarms on this, but way back in 2017 when we were talking about it when he just closed the claims brought by the whistleblowers, but the committee's Republican chairman, Trey Gowdy, did nothing and he's done nothing this whole time. And now the Dems are back in the house. We are chairing the committees and Cummings says, I'll just do this work myself. Nice.

Yeah, damn. I love that. I know, that guy's fucking rocks. Yeah. He's been waiting a long time too. He's had this power and he's using it the way he should, you know? We've all been waiting for this. True.

You just go through our little memory lane. Yeah, yeah. At the said 6, 18, 40, 56. So we've been talking about this for a long time. It's true, but now like you said with the house being controlled by the dams, it really makes all the difference. Tray Gowdy, if you're listening, go fuck yourself. Yeah.

Do you ever wonder where John Spurlock is and all this? Oh, I know. So all these things are happening. I think he changed his name. He was. He was his name. He's probably just like, it's all fake news. Yeah. He was our original troll for everyone that's probably just like it's all fake news. Yeah, he

was our original troll for everyone that doesn't know who John Spurluck is the one that told Ed Jeade to fuck herself in the heart, I believe he said. Or he's gonna fuck me with the heart. Oh, he's great. He was easier that way. Yeah, but he he's obviously a staunch Trump supporter and everything we say is like, you guys are crazy. This is ridiculous. You actually think that this would happen. So this was, it sounded particularly kind of tinfoil-hadi in the beginning. And I can't wait for all these people to realize that. Yeah, because we're over here screaming in December of 2017.

Like they're looking into Trump-Russia collusion and I'm all, they're gonna give Saudi Arabia the bomb. Everybody, they wanna recolonize the Middle East. Did I'm like, I sound like a complete lunatic. Yeah, you're the person on the planet they want to subdue. And here we are, Bean Scum True. Um, and I'm really glad that oversight is looking into this. Thank you Elijah Cummings.

Do your work. Godspeed. We'll be right back. Hey Mueller junkies, thanks to Billy for supporting our podcast. As I'm sure you all know, women's razors can cost up to 15, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve.

Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve.

Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve.

Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, Steve. Thank you, magic magnetic holder for the shower. For only $9, you can get 4 refill blades, 1, 2, or 3 months, based on how often you shave. Each razor cartridge includes 5 American made blades, not made in China. They're encased in allos' shaved soap for the smoothest shave that's gentle on sensitive skin, and they have more space between each blade to allow shaved creams soap and hair to pass through, so your razor doesn't get clogged like the store bought ones. They're in a lure best of beauty winner and on Nylon's beauty hit list because Billy is a brand that finally got women's razors right. Get free shipping always you can skip a

gesture cancel your subscription anytime hassle free and now through March 31st we'll get a special offer at mybilly.com slash AG. But only until March 31st. So go to mybilly.com slash AG right now. That's m-y-b-i-l-l-i-e.com slash AG. You'll be glad you did. All right, you guys ready for sabotage? Yes. OK. Okay, I'm gonna read you what I had written for this segment. Here we go. Quote.

Late Friday night, we were all waiting for the Mueller filing, recommending the sentencing in the Manafort case. This time in DC, see, but it never happened, see? The deadline was midnight, but midnight came and went, and nothing. Why? In other news, Manafort will be sentenced on Friday, March 8th at 9 AM, Eastern time. In the other case, the one in Virginia, where Mueller recommends 19.5 to 24 and a half years. End quote.

So that's what I had. But as we sat down to record this, this whole time you've been listening to us, we've had this in the back of our minds. The Mueller sentencing is in. The Mueller sentencing document is in. It's been filed under seal, and it's over 800 pages. So last night I tweeted, I've heard rumors that they have it. It's in the court because people are like, is bar blocking it?

I'm like, no, no. The court has it, I think. I'm pretty sure the court has it. They're just trying to, there's a technical issue because they're trying to look at the redactions and improve the redactions and everyone's like well come on come on come on come on because there's a lot of sentencing document was 20 pages 30 pages something like this 800 pages okay and a lot of it's redacted and I

haven't read it yet from for limb I'd be amazing if you could have during this time. Like Neo in Matrix. Give me no report. Yeah. I just did a little... never mind. You couldn't see it. It's... anyway, podcasts. So, I'm gonna read it as soon as it comes out. We don't know what's in it. There's a lot of redactions, and to me redactions means more crimes. So that

could affect whether or not you're going to draft them in the fantasy indictment league this week. Or if I mean there's also a lot of speculation that Mueller's going to be like, we already got him for the rest of his life, we're not going to file any more charges. But here they are. The information could still be useful, yeah. Yeah, and it doesn't even have to be in this report. He could just give us this report could be stuff we already know. It could be because he doesn't have to tell us,

and maybe that'll be in his report, or maybe in the grand jury thing that could come out through the house judiciary, through the courts. If they go that way, that's the Jaworski route. But he doesn't have to put any of his additional crimes in there, even if there are additional crimes. Interesting.

So if there are no additional crimes in here, that doesn't mean there's not. So keep that in mind when you're going forward too. When you're trying to read it. Yeah, that'd be tough. Yeah, and you might not, you might choose to not draft manifold because he's already facing life,

potential the rest of his life in jail. Although some have said 19 to 24 is the high end and they probably, he'll probably get like high single digits, low double digits. That still puts him in these 80s. Right, yeah. So, but they might not, they might not do that. And we might not find out what those additional crimes are

unless he decides to report them in another avenue. So, keep that all in mind. And now, let's play the fantasy and diamond league. I'm gonna be a diamond! No, it is gonna be a diamond! I'm a diamond! And diamond! I'm a diamond!

Hold it, they can't, it's gonna be okay. Just calm down. I can't calm down, I'm gonna be inside! Alright guys, I feel robbed because I didn't say if you were ready or not, so can you give me the yay? Oh yeah! Yeah! Thank you! We sound very ready.

Alright guys, here we go. So, I want to let everyone know if Mueller finishes, okay? And he leaves all the investigations to others to finish the Department of Justice, Southern District of New York, DC, Stone, Stone's cases now in the District of Columbia, or his mini-molars, you know how we've talked about how he's granted US Attorney power to all of his underlings so that they have, they're basically mullers. They're little mullers, you can't stop this investigation.

Anyway, any of those produce any indictments, they're gonna count. So, fantasy and diamond league continues. Nice. As any future indictments coming out of those handoffs, we'll count towards this. And if I can make it relate, like if Bhutanah or Veselnetskaya or something that didn't relate before, but is related,

I'll let you know, I'll keep you posted. So fantasy and diamond league continues. And I believe I selected first last time you were gone. And I think you select. And then you and then me. Yes, that's good. That's right. All right, so Julie, so you picked first.

Who is your first person? I'm going to go with Brittany Kaiser. Ooh. Yes, and she's popping in the news right now. Kaiser, not supermanent. That's a local joke. You think any other fans, like, not in San Diego would get that?

I know how branched out Kaiser. Those Kaiser are only San Diego. It started here. Oh. But I don't know if it's only here. In the South, I never heard of it. They'll be like, what are you talking about? Yeah, I know.

It's like a super popular hospital for guys I don't know. Yeah, yeah. It's like the Walmart of hospitals. It is. It's in a good way though. Great, great care. I've heard. I don't know.

I don't know either. My boss has it and he's alive. And he's alive. There you go. See no more. That's our bar for healthcare in the United States. He's got it. It's 500 bucks a month.

He's not dead. All right, Jordan, who do you got? I'm doing super seating man-of-port. Well now remember it would just be man-of-port. With new crimes now, right? I guess not super seating. Right, because they're not super seating because those cases are closed. Oh, okay. I guess that's just a semantics thing. Yeah, I mean additional charges.

More, that's all I mean. Yeah, more memory. More man-of-port, shit. That's all I mean. more memory or man of fortune shit that's all I mean all right I'm gonna go with Uh Cohen plea agreement Okay, I think he's working with Southern District I think they're gonna make him do a plea agreement and he'll plead guilty on a couple of little charges Mm-hmm if he knows what's good for related to all this stuff that's just leaking out the trombore stuff. The fraud insurance fraud stuff like that. Yeah.

I will go with Oleeg Deripaska. I think saying his name. Has any already been indicted? No. I don't think so. Yeah, I feel like there's something brewing though. He's not in the Russian indictment. Oh, you know what?

I just looked this up last week, I think, actually. It was, there was talk of him being, I have pride in him. I know percussions on there, but I don't. Yeah, and we've been talking about him for a while, so now I'm confused. He might be in diet already, but I could have sworn he was in the news this week for, for new-ish things. All right, we'll put Daripasca down.

And if he's already been in dieted, I'll let you know. Yeah, a little asterisk next to that. Yeah. Yeah, I looked up Daripasca and dieted and nothing is coming up. All right, I'll let you know. Yeah, a little asterisk next to that. Yeah. Yeah, I looked up Daripaska and Dited and nothing is coming up. All right, I'll leave him on there. All right, Jordan, who do you got next? OK.

Saying this intentionally, super-seating stone. Nice. So part of that same case. I had him next, so I don't blame you. Yeah, it would be part of the same case, because they're still waiting on Miller and your Miller All right, I'm gonna go with AMI nice

I will take junior Jordan I'm doing a Sange I doing a sange. I knew you were in there. Alright, if you're doing a sange, I'm gonna do wiki leaks. Alright. Trumport, please. I'm gonna do Vesla Nitskaya, I guess that would be a separate case then? Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna do Cushur. Damn it. Is it all of it? No, we all can watch.

One more. Corsi, please. Damn. Damn you. Damn you. Oh. Corsi. Okay, ban and plea deal.

I'm holding out for him. Yeah, you never know so much. Yeah, my swells are still like, pre-bust too, but I'm gonna do satyr. Oh. Nice. Because of his lies about the Trump Tower Monster. Totally.

Yeah, I forgot about that. Little weasel. Little weasel. All right, guys, it's time to get some legal answers with this week's interview. And joining us today for the interview is Washington Post columnist.

Congratulations on that new gig. He's also a former US attorney and Department of Justice official. He's a constitutional law professor at UCSD and UCLA and he's a real life lawyer here in studio Harry Litman, Harry, welcome to Mueller. She wrote thanks glad to be here. This is great I'm smile out to report that this is in my general backyard sure Okay, well, I just drove over to your totally cool studio. I can't believe it and it's it's it's totally technically cool to be here Thank you. I'm technically cool to be here.

Thank you. I'm technically happy to have you. So it was just you have every most people we have on here in New York, LA or DC. So it's nice to have somebody down in the backyard. Then I get to meet your dog, right? No, no, they don't or the pod cats. All right, so got a lot to talk about today. In recent weeks, NBC and then Matthew Whitaker we call

Matthew fucking Whitaker on this show Bill Barr and then CNN and now the Washington Post have all reported that Mueller is getting ready to wrap up his part of the investigation just gonna have a hand in his report as soon as next week or this week I should say because we air on Sunday and I wanted to talk with you about some of the potential eventualities of the investigation, but ask you first, what your thoughts are when Mueller might wrap this up? Yeah, so I was initially dubious about these reports. You know, there's been, there's such a frenzy of trying to tease out little, little smoke rings from Mueller,

and it seemed that people were kind of galloping away on not much very wispy information. But the drumbeat continues. There are a few things that do seem very probative to me. It's confounding on a lot of levels that Mueller really is ready to tie it up with a bow. I'm taking it as an assumption and trying to consider the implications of it, but there's so many big chunks of the puzzle that he obviously hasn't, it seems obvious that he hasn't

completed, that I've been kind of scratching my head. But now as the reports continue and it almost becomes an article faith in DC at least that it's about to drop any minute, I take it as a given and try to consider it from there, what form it'll take, what process will happen and what now. So yeah, what you're talking about, like this, I couldn't believe it when they were saying that the report's going to come out because there was so much additional stuff that needed to be talked about.

In my mind, the Andrew Miller subpoena needed to be wrapped up, right? He still needed to, I know that his lawyers told reporters that Mueller still wanted him to come in and speak to the grand jury. So there was all that. And we've been discussing recently the difference between Mueller, the investigator, and Mueller, the prosecutor, and what his report might look like. And Neil Cateal, he wrote the special counsel regulations in 1999. And he tells us in a recent New York Times op-ed that Mueller's report is, quote, unlikely to be lengthy by design.

Unquote. And at first I thought that was just because Trump supporters don't understand things. But Neil Cattial, he envisions a report that is concise based on the limited scope of Mueller's assignment. So it could be that Mueller is effectively handing the prosecutorial responsibilities off to U.S. attorneys and the Justice Department now off to US attorneys and the justice department. Now that his job as an investigator is done, that sort of makes it make more sense to me that he could be done.

I understand the argument. But first of all, if you just take his chief mission as being investigative and not prosecutorial, it's still not done. It's still not nearly done. As a investigator in broad strokes, he went about the business for many months of uncovering misconduct in Russia. There after he went about the business of uncovering misconduct in the US, and it just seemed that he was, there was this big gap

in the middle of the bridge that consists of defining exactly the middle of the bridge that consists of defining exactly the links between the two. And that's where, you know, stone is in the middle of that. Courses in the middle of that. What about Trump Jr.? What about Kushner? What about the Seychelles meeting, etc.?

So even if you take his chief mission as being investigative, it's sort of confounding to think that he's ready to close up shop. On the Katyal thesis, it's true that the regs that he authored do contemplate or at least delineate a bare bones recitation of who was prosecuted and who was not. But Bill Barr, during his nomination hearings, made clear that he would try to err on the side of greater transparency if possible. And you gotta think that Mueller is aware

of the broader public imperative that goes well beyond a simple recitation. We charged this guy and let this, gave this guy a pass. So I think that he is preparing something more considerably more full-bodied and that that will be what bars incline to release. Of course, there's some categories of information, national security information, grand jury information, though. That's got some interesting legal wrinkles that when you think back on Watergate, possible information about people who aren't charged.

The typical policies would say should be excised, but this is no typical case and I think bar and mallor and everyone else knows it. All right yeah and I it's I don't know because it's like Neil Coutial comes out he's like I wrote the thing I wrote the really like well I gotta listen to that guy got Marshall McClellan right here right but but part the other part of me is like, why? Look, he did write it, but he wrote it in the wake of the Clinton debacle and the star 356 page report, you know, you're always fighting the last war. And when you read the regulations and especially the structure of what has to be reported

within Congress and the nature of the semi-independence that the special council enjoys. You can really see that as an overlay of white water and that sort of misadventure. We're in a very different spot here, and I think bar and muller, but also the Congress, no, it's much more akin to Watergate or even more sort of serious and sprawling. And I just don't see a two-page document flowing from the Attorney General to the Congress. And under the regs, by the way, Mueller's is bare bones. The AG's to the Congress is basically nothing, unless Barr has countermanded or Matthew, what'd you say his middle name with?

Matthew fucking pedigree. Matthew, if Whitaker has countermanded any decision of Mueller, the regs don't actually require any report to Congress, but of of course no way that's gonna happen right actually does say that if they do block anything congress has to know about it once the investigation is over uh... and the only way i can see this wrapping up really honestly is if he's investigated all these things if he's finished the say shalls if he's finished and all that's left are appeals

uh... but the stone case for example has been handed off to DC now. So any additional Miller testimony to that grand jury and I assume they can use the same grand jury Mueller was using? Look, or it's a trivial, I wouldn't say trivial, it can be complicated administratively, but it's no big deal if they have to,veying another grand jury. But again sure you can have follow through with another office to prosecute stone and decide If he goes to jail and for how long but the whole point of prosecuting him It's the manifold scenario you want to apply maximum pressure to get what he knows and in fact You want to get what he knows because it's not just about stone, it's about Donald Trump.

And as an investigative matter to sort of close up shop here before that has happened is, seems to really leave a major piece of his core mission undone. And that's not Rob Mueller's style. No, it's absolutely not. And that's kind of why I was at odds with this reporting, but it's being covered by everybody now. So recently, and I wanted to talk to you about this other thing, Rachel Maddo did a podcast called Bagman.

Was that, was it an awesome? It was brilliant. And in that podcast, she laid out the machinations of the resignation of Spiro Agnew, where the prosecutors in the Southern District of New York used the threat of an indictment to secure his resignation, basically, and that the Office of Legal Council's opinion at the time about the constitutionality of inditing a sitting president or vice president. Big difference, big difference. And so given the whispers now of the Southern District of New York possibly considering inditing Trump, which is kind of the rumors that are floating around now, and SDNY I've heard they're leaky, I've heard they're not, I don't know, but how do you view that opinion, the constitutionality of being able to indict a sitting president? Wow, okay, so lots to chew on there.

First, in no particular order. SDNY Leaky? Well, yes and no. I think the AUSA's are not, and I think the Bureau and the agents are. They're always the first person I think of when leaks have emerged. Constitutionality of inditing first to sitting vice president I think remains uncontroversial and that's where Agni was at the time. But the really remarkable or one of the really remarkable aspects, those were just kids in the SDNY at the time. They're now in the Maddowl podcast. And there wasn't a question of sort of going, well, they were working directly with the then

And there wasn't a question of sort of going, well, they were working directly with the then attorney general. Today, we do have this extent and reaffirmed OLC opinion saying you can't indict the president. So two questions, how cogent and forceful is it? Are there good arguments against it that the SDNY if it wanted to could could make and to how likely is it that DOJ bureaucracy would yield to such a attempt by the SDNY on the first question. Well, and how and not to interrupt and I'm sorry, but and how stable is the Office of Legal Counsel opinion that that policy is based on? I think is what Matt I was bringing up. Yeah. So that I mean on I think is what matter was bringing up in the show

So that I mean, I guess that's what I'm including in the first till I agree. It's a pretty policy driven and kind of murky opinion when push comes to shove both the 99 I think it was Randy Moss' opinion and the one that preceded it, essentially say, oh, there's no constitutional line here, but it would be awfully disruptive to the president's duties.

That's the kind of soft consideration that for example yielded completely by an eight zero supreme Court in the civil setting in Clinton v Jones for example and then when they come to the What should seem to be the stronger question? What about inditing but not trying the president holding it in a bans There's just a single sentence that says oh for the same reasons we wouldn't do that either So if it were submitted to an actual judicial review, which would be to the great benefit of everyone in the country, not to mention constitutional law professors, I'd bet it wouldn't hold up.

But that's never going to happen. And that's one of the sort of interesting issues and why the of the sort of interesting issues and why the choice of attorney general is so important that that policy cannot be tested in the courts unless the Department of Justice acquiesces and doing so because what will happen otherwise is some proposal, be it from SDNY or even Mueller to indict the president will wind up on the attorney general's desk and the attorney general and all likelihood will say we have a policy here. to indict the president will wind up on the attorney general's desk and the attorney general and all likelihood will say we have a policy here I don't see any reason to change our policy and that's the end of the matter in all these questions it's a broader theme things would be so might be I'd be so much more sanguine about things if the questions

were submitted to the courts and the most worrisome aspects from the start of the whole Trump demonization and in some ways actual chilling of the Department of Justice and law enforcement is the possibility that certain important legal propositions would not be tested by a neutral decision maker. I think this is one of them. I see no practical way that the president will be indicted even though I think more likely

than not the courts would permit it to happen. Okay. And I guess if it did go to court, could the prosecutors make the argument that Trump doesn't work that much and therefore it can't I mean I know it's funny. Yeah. But like 60% executive time golf. I mean he does a lot of he has a lot of free time. Yeah. In which he's not working which is probably better for us. But it could be but but you know it's a lot like the emergency. Yeah. Right. We know what when it comes to the courts will they say we know what it's not an emergency there you go or will they say

specially the supreme court when it comes to it look whatever we may think about trumps bonafides we have to think about the executive branch presidents in the future if we actually second-guess and column of fibibre here, what will that mean for, you know, future honest presidents? So the short answer to your question is I think, no, they won't say, you know, this guy plays golf and watches cable and needs cheeseburgers. They'll just think about the overall duties of the presidency in the abstract.

Yeah. Yeah. And so, and then I want to talk a little bit about you talking about the courts versus going through the attorney general, whether it's bar, whether it's Whitaker, whether it's Rosenstein, no matter who it is, you know, they can still always adhere to that policy, even if it's based on shaky ground. Um, but I also wonder if that precludes them from doing what they did in the Spiro Agnew case, not indict, but threatened to in order to coax out a resignation. And so I wanted to talk to you about what we've been calling the Jaworsky report. In recent months, that was released to the public. We learned that a federal judge found that there could be no question as to the materiality

of the grand jury findings in the Nixon case to the House Judiciary's Committee investigation to Watergate, right? So long story short, too late. The court allowed the normally secret grand jury findings to be released to the House Judiciary based on a ton of precedent and case law. And the job of the grand jury, quote, to me, this thing is simple. The grand jury is charged to report. It determines what it is to report and it determines the form in which it reports.

Unquote. So the decision also cited case law allowing an end run around the secrecy rules when quote, a compelling need and the ends of justice may mandate release. I think that applies here, but I'm not a lawyer. The grand jury, quote, the grand jury has ended its work. There's no need to protect against flight. There's no need to prevent tampering with witnesses or jurors. There's no need to protect grand jury deliberations to safeguard unaccused or innocent persons with

secrecy. So with that president, president, president in mind, can this grand jury petition the court directly to release its findings to our House Judiciary Committee? And my big question, would that have to go through the Department of Justice or is the AG circumvented in this scenario? Wow, let it great and fascinating question.

Okay, so there are a few things going on here that I want to summarize just to set things up. So the first question that Judge Siricca was facing in 74 is, can the grand jury, which we mainly think of as going thumbs up or thumbs down on the return of charges, also play a reportorial role where it gives its own kind of account of events and the court they are found and others have since found that in fact a grand jury can have more than simply the bottom line decisions and there's such a thing as issuing a report. And that grand jury, by the way, was extremely active. By all accounts, they wanted to issue the report.

They actually wanted to indict the president, et cetera. Now, when you talked about the different circumstances about would people flee or would there be secrecy concerns, that goes to the next question of, what are the reasons why we generally keep Grand jury reports secret and can they be pierced in an individual case. And the short answer based on at least that precedent would be yes, it's a balancing test that has to do with the importance of the information which I agree with you is here as as keen and compelling as it was in Watergate. But against the individual concerns and there's one last one that is not

obvious when the grant jury's work is done, that's the privacy concerns of individuals whose guilt may have been considered and the grand jury passed on. Did they just, you know, vote on, um, and dining Kushner and decide not to. Now, in Watergate, um, there were two things going on. One, um, the president himself had not, um, resisted the turn over of the information. And maybe more importantly, the information was still turned over in a supposedly confidential way, that is by going to Congress. And it wasn't until actually a few days ago, I think, and the sort of brave or at least smart move by Jack Goldsmith, Ben Wittis, and others that we got the report itself issued. So here you could say the same thing.

You could try to say this out balances the privacy interests of individuals. That's always a tough thing for courts to say the sort of public interest versus individual private interests. And then they could say and congress of course will keep a confidential now of course that's that part in two thousand eighteen would be a total fiction so little like the question you asked about the president would you think about them in the abstract or in reality

knowing that congress leaks like a cib uh... because if it goes to them we'll learn everything. That's why I want everything to go to the next one. But in any event as I see it, it's the your right that it wouldn't, it's now the grand jur, it's in the courts purview. And it would be a court decision that the attorney general or DOJ they would be heard on but they couldn't block. Okay.

That's, and I'm glad you brought up the individual rights versus the need to know. Yeah, basis for the country. It reminds me of this scene, and one of my favorite Steve Martin movies called My Blue Heaven, where he's a mob in the witness protection program and he breaks the law in the small town where he lives. And the DA is like, you can't do that, you can't steal cars.

He's like the FBI guy who's protecting him comes and says, a legal search in seizure, you didn't have any right to view his car, to look into his car. And I think she said something like, he goes, yeah, it's in the Constitution. They put that in there and she goes, not for you when he goes, actually, exactly for me.

I'm exactly the guy they put that in for because i'm the criminal and so that's really interesting because as you say that like the rights of these individuals i'm like fm right but you through but that's that's who exactly who it's for are these people that we don't like um and so i also i also believe in the nixon case uh... the president's council was permitted to review the Grand jury report before it went to the judiciary, but it didn't mention anything about the attorney general.

So I think am I correct in assuming the Grand jury petitioned the court on its own? Yeah, look, I think that's right. The Grand jury is an adjunct of the court technically, although in reality it's sort of a hybrid, but that's one of the clever or moves a foresight by Mueller as once he has put things in a court record, including in the grand jury where things can eventually be unsealed, they are beyond the reach of a Matthew F. Whitaker, for example, to preamp later. I don't think a William P. Barg Jr. would be looking to do it, but that was probably what it was in his mind. You know, the McCabe book, which came out last week, did make clear that they have had

a so-called Plan B from early on. What's going to happen in a Doomsday scenario where they're trying to lock us down? We have to be able to get the info out, just like the Watergate prosecutors on one point we're thinking we're going to stuff these documents down our pants and walk out of the building before we let Nixon actually lock up the doors. Yeah, and that was an elegant solution by McCabe too, to add not to create a new, or open a new, into a counterintelligence or criminal investigation into Trump, but to add his name and his obstruction as a national security issue to the already existing Russia

investigation. So that if anyone came in and tried to shut it down, they'd be shutting down an obstruction of justice case, which just looks totally man He got the whole russia investigation. He got beat up badly by the ID report I have some feelings about that But he he should emerge and I think he will emerge a hero here He is an honest public servant from day one. He really is and he's a babe So we and a lifelong Republican. Yes, it's a recently. I think he unregistered I was under Ied after all this. Enough for you guys.

Bad taste in his mouth. But just that, the Trump talking about his wife. How does it feel to be a loser? I want you to ask her that for me. This is a punishment of the free world, right? Just for him to be able to maintain composure in those situations. And then like Comey did, he went down and contemporaneously wrote all this down.

Because it's very important. And so I also assume that anything like this grand jury report to the judiciary would be separate from Mueller's report to the attorney general, which is what we're talking about that's gonna happen this week, right? That's a separate thing. No doubt, if it exists right now as far as we know it doesn't.

And it's very unusual. Grand jurors, for Grand jury to actually, well, I'm sure they didn't in Jaworski case, compose the report. But still, they were an activist grand jury. One would more expect this grand jury, like other grand juries, to be go along grand juries. Oh, interesting.

Why is that? That's just the normal kind of relationship for good or for bad, and it is for good and bad. But if you've been in front of a grand jury, and any prosecutor has over the course of weeks and months, you develop a sort of relationship of Deference at least on the legal matters. So in I think in Watergate you have this unusual dynamic They really wanted to indict Nixon and others and there was a real push and pull and I've certainly had grand juries

Who have resisted where the prosecutor is going, but we don't have an indication that that's happened here. Okay. Yeah. Well, if they do, to me, those grand jury findings are the real Mueller report. There you go. That to me. And I hope they do, but I don't know. You know, that's That's hoping and praying for them to repeat this elegant solution that the grand jury in Watergate came up. Although one thing to remember, it's always the tip of the iceberg you're seeing with Mueller. The next level might be what's in the grand jury, but imagine the wealth of information

he has that hasn't been to the grand jury. You know, McGann, Bannon, everyone who's come in and spoken to him and that have created investigative leads that they haven't had to bring to the grand jury. Right. And McGahn, Prebus, and Bannon have the same lawyer, so they're presumably all on the same side. Otherwise, that lawyer couldn't represent all of them. So yeah, there's just so much. And we've said this whole time, we're only seeing one 2% of what's out there. And I think that fear, however, when people hear that this report's going to come out this week, is that maybe we got it all.

But I just can't imagine that being the case because he's so tight-lipped. It's not a leaky organization over there at the Special Counsel's office. So finally, last question here, because you've talked about how you just don't see it able to be wrapped up this quickly. And then we've talked about the grand jury findings if they petition the court to get to the judiciary versus the report that goes to bar. And then what's bar going to do is he going to get it to Congress, etc. And of course, Congress can always subpoena Mueller. They can subpoena the report. We could find ourselves in a court battle there.

But how do you see this ending? I know that a lot of this week, a lot of the New York Times put out a piece wired put out magazine put out a piece about the seven ways this could end. And I'm thinking really just seven. There's infinite ways this could end. And I feel like the way it ends is probably something we've never thought of. But how do you see this ending? It's true. I mean, it grows geometrically more than arithmetically if I can be nerdy on UAG.

Nice. Expanding universe. Exactly. OK, so look, I believe that the reporter, whatever information we get when Mueller provides it and the other investigations will show what we already have seen. We have a president who's, you know,

a rogue and worse and is likely, let's take the sort of plausible worst case scenario. Not you know I don't think they'll be a report that chose him to have you know murdered somebody in secret five years ago. So I think if much of the conduct is really laid at his feet and far, the March has always been in that direction. I think a lot of us, I, I am among them have been kind of awaiting this big revelation. And now the scales will fall from the everyone's eyes. The Republicans will opt for country over party. Half of the base will say, Oh, we were fooled all along. But the trouble here is, I think it's always been tolerably

clear, not clear beyond a reasonable doubt, of course, but pretty damn clear that this is who we have in the White House, and yet the Republicans have stayed torpit about it, or even pugilistic, and the base has seemed indifferent. So I think if it's a just fairly spectacularly damning report of a sort that really ascribts to him worst criminal behavior than any president in history, that doesn't mean the basic dynamic will change, and in particular, if you say what's the end game, it doesn't mean there'll be any kind of will to convict in the Senate, the ultimate question. So if you, you know, force a gun in my hand to make predictions, and you know, you get what you pay for them, mine would be he is president having endured terrible crises in 2020, but not thereafter.

He's either defeated or doesn't run. So that's about the happiest ending I see. But as a prosecutor, thirsty for justice and the truth, I see, but it's a prosecutor, you know, thirsty for justice and the truth, I think the frustration that the last couple of years have felt where the seismic discoveries are made and so many people seem indifferent to it, I don't see why that basic dynamic changes dramatically.

I sure hope I'm wrong. Okay, so you think the report's not gonna really change any minds, everybody's making it. It changed, You know, 50 minds, but not 20 in the scent, not 20 Republican minds in the Senate, and not more than, you know, 5% of his base. Now, of course, he's already, you know, so abysmal and approval ratings, et cetera. It will have political consequences, but I don't think it will uh... be pivotal come you know turn make make people generally go to the other side on this basic question that seems so clear to me

as to you know whether he's he's a deeply dangerous deranged and even criminal leader of the free world yeah and your opinion there includes impeachment because that's why you said 20 senators would have to flip. Exactly. You just don't see that. I could really foresee an impeachment if they were and that would depend in fact on how virulent the report is, but I have trouble making you know, seeing the Lindsey Grams or even the, you know, the birds of the world in the, you know, the birds of the world actually doing the clear right thing, the thing that happened in Watergate. We, you know, it's a Mitch McConnell Senate now, not a Barry Goldwater

Senate. Very true. All right. Well, Harry Littman, thank you so much, guys. Former US Attorney, former Department of Justice, a visual current constitutional law professor and real life lawyer, Harry Littman. And congratulations on your new job as a column current constitutional law professor and real life lawyer, Harry Litman, and congratulations on your new job as a columnist at the Washington Post. Thanks, I'm really loving that. That's a big get. We're so happy for you, everybody.

Harry Litman. All right, guys, that's our show. So don't forget to get your tickets to Miracle Theater in DC March 29th, bellhouse in Brooklyn March 30th, and Largo in Hollywood on April 18th. We're about to announce a mini-application Show. Like I said, so get ready for that. If you're a patron, watch your email for announcements in VIP discount codes and pre-sales and after parties and all sorts of shit.

Every venue is different. Some let us do VIP meet and greet. Some let us do pre-sales. Some let us do discount code. They're all different. So keep your eyes peeled for that. We'll give you whatever we can. If you're not a patron, you can become one at Patreon.com.

Slash Muller, she wrote. And once you're a patron and Mullullershi wrote, you'll automatically be a patron of a daily new show we're developing called the daily beans for all your bean needs. Coming soon to a podcast platform near you. If you haven't already, please subscribe on Apple podcast. It's how we get to beat Rush Limbaugh and Ben Shapiro in the charts. We love you guys. Be kind to each other, any last thoughts? Oh yeah, just take care of yourselves guys. Crazy times, yeah, just self care. Yeah, we had a good colleague,

a colleague of ours named Brody Stevens, commit suicide this week. And so we're all feeling it here. If you, and this guy lit up a room. He was the kindest, sweetest person. And you just, you never know. So reach out and be there. And listen and punch up.

You know? Yeah. Yeah. And I know, like, I didn't know him personally at all. He is significantly higher above mate. but just the impact that it has on everyone in the comedy community because it's such a... Yeah, like you've seen him perform and like he said he's just incredible, and people talk about him preaching positivity constantly too, and everyone knew he had mental health problems and everything but like his closest friends seem to just still be baffled by it

So it's it's just really sad Yeah, this show is Dedicated to him so Brody fair winds following seas we will miss you and again be kind to each other We will see you next time. I've been a G. I've been Julieolissa Johnson. I've been Jordan Coburn. And this is Mullershey Road. Mullershey Road is produced and engineered by AG with editing and logo design by Jolissa Johnson. Our marketing consultant and social media manager is Sarah Liste Diner and our subscriber and communications director is Jordan Coburn. Fact checking in research by AG and research assistants by Jolissa Johnson and Jordan Coburn.

Our merchandising managers are Sarah Least Diner and Sarah Hershberger Valencia. Our web design and branding are by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is mullershierote.com. They might be giants that have been on the road for too long. Too long. And they might be giants aren't even sorry. Not even sorry. And audiences like the shows too much. Too much. And now they might be giants that't even sorry, not even sorry. And audiences like the shows too much, too much. And now they might be giants who are playing their breakthrough album,

full of it. And they still have time for other songs. They're fooling around. Who can stop? They might be giants and their liberal rock agenda. Who? No one. Disadvantaged pay for it with somebody else's money. M-S-O-W Media. This is money.