Jack - Mueller Report Pt. 14

Episode Date: August 23, 2019

Welcome to Mueller She Wrote and our special coverage of the redacted Mueller Report. Today we are going over Volume 2, section 2, part D - ‘The evidence and analysis of obstruction of justice surrounding the removal of the director of the FBI James Comey’. Pages 62 – 77 if you’re following along. Thanks for supporting Mueller She Wrote!

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That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign, and I didn't have and I have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for? I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me.

Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a Communist! No Mr. Green, Communism is just a red hairing. Like all members of the oldest professional capitalist. Hello and welcome to Muller She Wrote and our special coverage of the Redacted Muller Report. I'm your host A.G.

And with me today, Arjelisa Johnson. Hello. And Jordan Cobert. So today we're going to go over volume two, section two, part D, the evidence and analysis of obstruction of justice surrounding the removal of the director of the FBI, James Comey, who is or is not our homie. We haven't determined yet. We haven't seen the IG report.

Yeah, to be or not to be our homie. To really handle that. And a decade will reflect with more clarity. Absolutely. And this is going to cover pages 62 to 77. So if you want to pause and go read or read along with us, either way, that's fine. However, you do you.

So let's get to it. As in previous subsections, I'm going to skip the overview because all of the details will be revealed in the evidence and the analysis sections. So middle of page 62, we open, Comey, interior test of, I know, we open with Comey testifying to the Senate Judiciary Committee and declining to answer questions about whether Trump was under investigation. We talked about this in previous sections. So on May 3, 2017, Comey was scheduled to testify before the Senate Judiciary Committee. McGann recalled that in the week leading up to the hearing, the president said it would be the last

draw if Komi didn't take the opportunity to set the record straight by publicly announcing the president was not under investigation. The president had previously told McGann that the perception that the president was under investigation was hurting his ability to carry out presidential duties. And that's important, we'll find out why in the analysis. So at the hearing, Komi declined to answer questions about the status of the Russia investigation, stating, the Department of Justice had authorized him to confirm that Russia, the Russian investigation exists, but that he was, quote, not going to say another word about it, until the investigation was completed. So Komi also declined to answer questions about whether investigators had

ruled out anyone in the Trump campaign as potentially a target of the criminal investigation, including whether the FBI had ruled out the President of the United States. And we've talked about this. Comey was like, I'm not going to tell you to stop. And he was also asked about his decision to announce 11 days before the election that the FBI was reopening the Clinton email investigation. He's very like a muller in that sense.

Yeah, they seem, that seems to be like a part of their position as FBI director to be like, I'm not going to tell you anything. It's the norm for me to not have to tell you anything and they think this whole thing is ridiculous that they have to do things like testify. Yeah, I think that Komi might have been a little more political or at least had more , yeah, more impact on politics than then Mola did. It's a bit of a tap dancer. Oh, that's really cute.

That's really cute. He should be on dancing with the stars. Oh, yeah, let's get Komi on there. All right, replace spicy. I mean, I'd watch that. So Komi stated that it made him mildly nauseous to think we might have had some impact on the election. But added that even in hindsight,

he would make the same decision. He later repeated that he had no regrets, no regrets about how he handled the email investigation and believed he had done the right thing at each turn. Yeah, he got attached to you. And he had no regrets, no regrets. No regrets. Yeah.

I don't know that he did the right thing at each turn, but I think he probably did the best thing that he could given to shitty or three shitty options. Totally. But again, we don't know because we still haven't seen the IG report about the Weiner laptop, handling of the Weiner laptop within the New York FBI field office. That was due out last year. I don't know why we haven't seen it yet, but it worries me that we haven't.

And that tells me that it's good. Yeah. I would imagine if they're taking this much time to- They're trying to hide it because it's detrimental to Trump. Interesting. That's what I think. That's what I think. Those are beans though, I don't know for sure.

We just haven't seen the report. Yeah. The DOJ always is so boring now. There's like a reason it's like, you know, it wasn't and prevent anything that I feel like the public should really see. True. That could also just be the truth, but I don't know. He's not to be trusted at all, so I feel like the public should really do. True, that could also just be the truth, but I don't know.

He's not to be trusted at all, so I'm kind of more on your side. Yeah, yeah. We should make into a comic book. I'm thinking like a comic book, like, Singtomony is choir boy. His superpower. His superpower.

Dendring in with curtains. Dendring in. Yeah, he's like, I lizard. His invisibility class. Yeah, what do they call him? Camilleans. Yeah, yeah, there we go. Comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey, comey Comi Comi Comi Lee. Okay, after Comi's testimony, the president met with McGann sessions and sessions chief

of staff, a guy named Jody Hunt. And Trump asked McGann how Comi had done and McGann said Comi declined to answer questions about whether the president was under investigation. And then Trump got real mad and directed his anger at sessions. According to notes written by Hunt, the president said, this is terrible, Jeff. It's all because you recused. AG is supposed to be the most important appointment. Kennedy appointed his brother, Obama appointed holder.

I appointed you and you recuse yourself. You left me on an island. I can't do anything. You were seeing the walking dead, the show. The first few seasons. Oh man, there's a scene where I wanted the characters, like she gets slapped because her, I authority figure or whatever like the person in charge of her is mad. It's something that has nothing to do with the character and she just turns

to her and slaps her. And I feel like that's what's happening right now with Trump. Only walking to it like I guess fanatics would get that scene. But like yeah, she just like takes her anger out on her and I feel like sessions as much as he's you know a racist posthum and she's getting slapped right now for something that has nothing to do with him really besides take over talking dead since Chris Hardware got me to all that's right Yeah, I know I'm an angel Lisa nice Uh, sorry. Go ahead. Trump is also really bad at parallelism in that example because he starts off with the this guy gives And what is it called appointed? Yeah, he appointed his brother and then this other dude appointed not his brother is it called appointed? He appointed his brother.

And then this other dude appointed, not his brother. This other guy appointed, also not his brother. Not really making any point there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your point? Yeah, I think he was mad because apparently he thought holder was Obama's buddy and they were on Incahute's. Right.

But yeah, there's no other parallel besides his incorrect thinking. Yeah, I think he was going for it, just not well executed. Exactly. Very not well executed. And so he felt like that Jeff recusing, Jeff, was unfair. It was interfering with his ability to govern, to do his president job.

And it was undermining his authority with foreign leaders, not that he's a total dumbass, but this particular thing. And Sessions responded that he had no choice but to recuse, and it was mandatory rather than discretionary. Hunt recalled that Sessions also stated at some point during the conversation that it would be great a new start at the FBI be appropriate, and the president should consider replacing Komi as the director. According to Sessions, when the meeting concluded it was clear the president was unhappy with Komi,

but Sessions didn't think the president had made the decision to terminate comi at that point man and recalled uh... that the president brought comi up with him at least eight times on may third and may for uh... and according to ban and the president said the same thing every time he told me three times i'm not under investigation he's a showboat or he's a grandstander i don't know any russians there was no collusion

yeah I don't know any Russians. There was no collusion. Yeah, he's got to look in the mirror and say, you're not under investigation three times. In ballerapy. Hello. Does he really think that he, does he believe that he doesn't know any Russians? I don't know. Maybe they're convincing themselves. Like, does he really believe that in his head? Under technicalities.

Yeah, I guess. We're gonna miss universe. Like, I don't know them that well. How many, 84% of his properties in Florida were sold to Russians? Yeah, he's like, I don't know their kids. Rob Lovelev bought his mansion in Florida. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think like, like the probability of anyone in this country

not knowing a single Russian is also just like, very strong. I don't know if I know any Russian. That I think about it, but I'm sure I do. I don't know, I think people are like, I'm Russian. I'm Russian, you know. Exactly, yeah, but with the Mueller report is just, yeah, very, very focused on that. 200 pages that you know in Russians totally.

So yeah, no. And then he would say there's no collusion. They would end with that every time, the eight times he spoke to Bannon. And Bannon told the president he could not fire Komi because that ship has sailed. And Bannon also told the president that firing Ky was not going to stop the investigation cautioning him that he could fire the FBI director but he could not fire the FBI. I like that. I like that. Who told him that? It was Bannon. Yeah, one of the rare smart things that

that guy says. Yeah. And he didn't. Yeah, I guess all of the motherfuckers that he said along with it weren't included. On the subsection to on page 64 when Trump makes the decision to fire Comey. And we know all about this. The weekend following Comey's May 3rd, 2017 testimony, the president traveled to his resort in Bedminster, New Jersey, where he makes all of his bad decisions.

And at a dinner, two days later, attended by the likes of Kushner and Stephen Miller, what a gem, that Trump said he wanted to remove Comey and had ideas for a letter that could be used to make the announcement. President dictated arguments and specific language for the letter and Miller took notes. As reflected in the notes, the president told Miller has these notes, by the way. And as reflected in the notes, the president told Miller that the letter should start,

while I greatly appreciate you informing me that I am not under investigation concerning what I have often stated as a fabricated story on Trump Russia pertaining to the 2016 presidential election, please be informed that I what please be informed that I and I believe the American public including DZNRs have lost faith in you as the director of the FBI. So here it is letter ever. Yeah, poorly written and poor yeah, I don't know if it was dictated weirdly or spoken weirdly. Yeah, I don't like these and ours. Yeah, that wasn't a compliment sandwich either.

That was just like shit all over. Yeah, and a big giant lie in the beginning. Totally. Well, he, Komi actually did tell him before he was personally under investigation, that he wasn't personally under investigation. Right, but the way that he word it was so petty. Yeah, I know. And after the meeting, Miller prepared a letter based on those notes and some research

he conducted to support the president's arguments. And over the weekend, Trump provided several rounds of edits. Miller said the president was adamant that he not telling anyone at the White House what they were doing because he didn't, he was worried about leaks. So in his discussions with Miller, the president made clear he wanted the letter to open with a reference of him not being under investigation. And Miller said he believed that fact was important to the president to show

that Komi was not being terminated based on any such investigation. And according to Miller, the president wanted to establish as a factual matter that Komi had been under a review period and did not have assurance from the president that he would be permitted to keep his job. The final version of that termination letter prepared by Miller began in a way that was closely tracked

to what the president had dictated in the first place. It's a dear director, Comey, while I greatly appreciate you're informing me on three separate occasions that I am not under investigation, concerning the fabricated and politically motivated allegations of a Trump-Russia relationship with respect to the 2016 presidential election Please be informed that I along with other members of both political parties he took out the D's and ours

And most importantly the American public have lost faith in you as the director of the FBI and you were here by terminated Is that how all directors are terminated with the FBI? Like do they always say we have lost faith in you like goodbye and like the weakest link like it's so weird You just that you just don't hand them the rose yeah yeah also the letters pointless because you found out on the television exactly you never got the you still looking the envelope like that just tweet it man yeah someone like that again

uh... so this for page letter uh... trump and bar big on for page letters went on to critique comies judgment and conduct including his mather 3rd testimony before Senate Judiciary and his handling of the Clinton email investigation and his failure to hold leakers accountable. The letter stated that Komi had asked the president at dinner shortly after inauguration to let Komi stay on in the director's role and the president said that he would consider it, but the president had concluded that he had no alternative but to find new leadership for the Bureau, a leader that restores confidence and trust. So that's pretty much that makes sense.

Yeah. To balance trust and confidence in the because the person helped you in the election and that's why you need to fire them. Yeah. And to blame him for the handling of the Hillary emails, which Trump loved the way he handled the Hillary emails Of course, that was probably President because of the way Comi handled the Hillary email. Yeah, it's just it's absolutely a ridiculous charge It was a bold move, right? Yeah, yeah, he goes for the opposite. It's opposite day in the White House every day Yeah, it's like they're reasoning for the citizenship question exactly. Wow. I'm sensing a pattern

their reasoning for the citizenship question. Exactly. Wow, I'm sensing a pattern. Oh. Hmm. That'd be great if he was like, Comey, I have to fire you because of the Voting Rights Act. Yeah. Yeah. And I don't like you. I don't like your face. You're too tall. You made me look short.

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Isn't it his night birthday this February day? Isn't that your husband's birthday? It is it's my husband's birthday The eighth of May National Outdoor and of course day. Oh, that's right which most people say is May 1st But I disagree interesting. I think how did that dispute arise? Uh, I don't know. May 8th be with you. Yeah. So here we are. Morning of Monday, May 8th, 2017. President Metany Oval Office with senior advisors, McGann, Prebis and Miller, among others, and informed them he had decided to terminate Comey. President read aloud the first paragraph of the termination letter that he wrote that Miller, you know, uh, wrote, that Miller wrote, but he dictated, and conveyed the decision had been made,

and it was not for discussion. The president told the group that Miller had researched the issue, and determined the president had the authority to terminate Komi without cause. And in an effort to slow down the decision making, McGann told the president like, slow down. That the DOJ leadership was currently discussing Komi's status and suggested the White House Council's office attorneys should

talk with sessions in Rosenstein who had recently been confirmed as the deputy attorney general. We called him Snoop Dagg but then he turned out to be a jerk. So now he's just Rosenstein. So McGann said that previously scheduled meetings with sessions in Rosenstein that day would be an opportunity to find out what they thought about firing Comey. So he's like, just hang on a minute. I don't know why he sounds like an old Southern plantation owner to me.

At noon, Sessions, Rosenstein, and Hunt, Jody Hunt, met with McGann in the White House Council's office. And one of the White House Council's office attorneys named Udom Dillon. And they met all at the White House. And McGann said the president had decided to fire Comey and asked for sessions and Rosenstein's thoughts. And they criticized Comey and did not raise concerns

about replacing him. McGann and Dillon said the fact that neither sessions or Rosenstein objected to replacing Comey gave them peace of mind that the president's decision was not an attempt to obstruct justice. I guess they were expecting like if sessions and Rosenstein would, no, no, no, no, no, no. you know, in an oval office meeting we scheduled later that day so sessions in Rosenstein could discuss the discuss the issue with the president.

So around 5 p.m. Trump and several White House officials met with sessions in Rosenstein to discuss it. And the president told the group he watched Comey's testimony and thought something was not right with Comey. Okay. Mr. I am God. Yeah, right. We can start instead of pot in the kettle, we can say Trump in the Comey.

So the president said that Comey should be removed and asked sessions in Rosenstein for their views. Hunt, who was in the room, recalled that sessions responded that he had previously recommended the Comey be replaced. He's like, I told you already. And McGann and Dylan said Rosenstein described his concerns about Comey's handling of the Clinton email investigation. So that's what that's what Rosenstein said. And the president then he just freaking goes with the

floated. Yeah, he has no backbone. He's a wittery whistler. Ryan of the DOJ. Totally. And it's just yeah, he just bends with whatever whoever he's in front of. And the president then handed out copies of the letter and the discussion turned into the mechanics of then handed out copies of the letter and the discussion turned into the mechanics of how to get rid of Comey and whether the president's letter should be used. McGannon Dylan urged the president to permit Comey to resign, but the president was adamant he'd be fired. So here's some, here's some, you know, objections. The group discussed the possibility that Rosenstein and Sessions could provide a recommendation

in writing that Comey should be removed. And the president liked that. He's like, yeah, yeah, you come up with the reasons. So he agreed and told Rosenstein to draft a memo. And he said he wanted to receive it next the next morning, first thing. So Hunt's notes reflect that the president told Rosenstein to include the fact that Komi had refused to say Trump was not personally under investigation. This is where it gets weird because according to notes taken by senior DOJ official of Rosenstein's description of his meeting with the president, the president said, put the Russia stuff in the memo.

And Rosenstein responded to that, saying the Russian investigation was not the basis of his recommendation. He was about the Hillary, handling of the Hillary stuff. So he did not think Russia should be mentioned. So the president told Rosenstein he would appreciate it if Rosenstein put it in the letter anyway. And when Rosenstein left the meeting, he knew that Komi was going to be fired and he told DOJ colleagues that his own reasons for replacing Komi were not the president's reasons. So no Rosenstein in sessions didn't have an objection to the president firing Komi, but they did have an objection for him saying it had something to do with Russia.

That is where it becomes obstruction of justice. Yeah, exactly. Makes sense that they would have an objection to that. He's like, let's get to know, I guess. His reasons aren't my reasons. And so on May 9th, Hunt delivered the letter from sessions recommending Komi's removal and a memo from Rosestine as well, addressed to the General, titled, Restoring Public Confidence in the FBI. And McGann recalled the president liked the DOJ letters

and agreed they should provide the foundation for a new cover letter from the president, accepting the recommendations to terminate Komi. And notes taken by Donaldson on May 9th reflect the view of the White House Council's office that the president's original termination letter should not see the light of day. And it would be better to offer no other reasons. Council's office that the president's original termination letter should not see the light of day.

And it would be better to offer no other reasons. So he gets these two letters from Rosenstein in sessions, and he wants to put a cover letter on it of his own, and they're like, no, no, no, no, no. And don't that original letter, we got to destroy it, which you aren't allowed to do. But I don't know what happened to it. Maybe he ate it.

And no other reasons for the firing, other than what was in Rosenstein and Sessions memo, but Trump asked Miller to draft a new termination letter and told him to put the Russia stuff back in. And McGannum pre-bist and Dylan objected to including that language, but the president insisted. And McGannum pre-bist and the others perceived that language to be the most important part of the letter to Trump. So Dylan made a final pitch that Komi should be permitted to resign, not be fired, but the president refused. So around the time the president's letter

was finalized, previous summon spicer, that sounds funny. I summon the spicing with a Ouija board. And also the press to the Oval Office, where they were told Komi had been terminated for the reason stated in the letters by Rosenstein in sessions. So to announce Komi's firing, the White House released a statement which previous thought had been dictated by the president. In full the statement read today, President Donald J. Trump informed the FBI director James

Komi he's been terminated and removed from office. President Trump acted based on clear recommendations of both Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and Attorney General, sessions, Attorney General general judge sessions. Yeah, technically. And that evening FBI director Andrew McCabe was summoned to meet with the president at the White House and the president told McCabe that he fired Komi because of the decisions Komi had made in the Clinton email investigation

and for many other reasons, middle of the reasons as well. And the president asked McCabe if he was aware that Komi had told the president three times that he was not under investigation. God, he's such a baby. And the president also asked McCabe if he was aware that Komi had told the president three times that he was not under investigation. God, he's such a baby. And the president also asked McCabe if people in the FBI disliked Komi and whether McCabe was part of the resistance that had disagreed with the Komi decisions and the Clinton investigation. And McCabe told the president that he knew Komi had told the president he was not under investigation,

and that most people at the FBI felt positively about Komi, and then McCabe worked very closely with Ky and was part of all the decisions that had been made in the Clinton investigation. And later that evening Trump told his communications team he was unhappy with the press coverage of Comey's termination and ordered them to go out and defend him and the president also called Chris Christie and according to Christie he said I'm getting killed in the press over Comey's firing. I remember that. She included your dumb ass letter on top of it.

You dumb fuck. And the president asked, what should I do? And Christie asked, did you fire Comey because of what Rod wrote in the memo and the president responded, yes. And then Christie said the president should get Rod out there and have him defend the decision. And that night when the White House press office called the DOJ and said the White House wanted to put out a statement saying that it was Rosenstein's idea to fire Komi. Rosenstein told other DOJ officials he would not participate in putting out a false story. The president then called Rosenstein directly and said he was watching Fox News and the coverage had been great and that he wanted Rosenstein to do a press conference.

And Rosenstein responded that this was not a good idea because of the press asked, he would not tell the truth that Komi's firing was not his idea. And Sessions also informed the White House Council's office that evening that Rosenstein was upset that his memorandum was being portrayed as the reason for Komi's termination. In an unplanned press conference, late in the evening of May 9th, Spicer told reporters, it was all Rosenstein. No one from the White House, it was DOJ. What did Rosenstein think it was gonna go towards? He's just a gullible dude, I guess. And because, you know, I mean, you hand in your letter and then the Trump puts his letter on top of it

and releases it with all the Russia stuff in it and insists that the Russia stuff goes back in without consulting Rosenstein and then putting Rosenstein's name on it. He's going to be pissed. I wonder if he could have retracted it, Rosenstein, like when he had a feeling like when they were going back and forth about it. He'd have been fired for sure.

Oh, yeah. If he came out and said, you know, Rosenstein did everything he could to just not get fired. To divide was in his position and someone told me to write up a letter and then he used it to fire the head of the FBI. I would resign immediately. And he used it, right, certainly. And then I used it to go out and defend it, like, mm, buck off.

I would resign too. And I would say, here's why I'm resigning. I didn't put my name on this. He added this Russia stuff in later. This is obstruction of justice, peace out. Yeah, not only is it obstruction of justice, but it's also an egregious moral offense on another person's, like, just personhood.

Yeah. That's when Rosenstein kind of earned his Snoop-Dag title right then and there. Yep. Betty Blubert. Now it's too late. Yeah, I did. So, I'll never have a cooking show with Martha Stewart. He can evolve like Snoop Lion, you know, into a whole new level.

So spicy, you know, he's out there saying it was the DOJ. It was not the White House, all Rosenstein. And so that night, the next morning, White House officials and spokespeople continued to maintain Trump's decision to terminate Comey that was driven by the recommendations from Rosenstein in sessions. And and I don't know if sessions was pissed. He probably just shut up by then, because he was already mad at him for recusing himself. But Rosenstein was pretty mad.

And then on the top of page 71, the morning of May 10, Trump met with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov and Russian Ambassador Kislyak in the Oval Office. And we know about this, not because our media was allowed in there, they weren't. But Russian State media reported on it. And they reported that during that May 10th meeting, the President brought up his decision to terminate komi telling lavarov and kissley act i just fired the head of the fb i he was crazy real nut job i faced great pressure because of russia that's taken off i'm not under investigation even though uh... who was it banan told him you can fire the director of the fb i but you can't fire the fb i and christie told him this is going to elongate the, not shorten it, here he is telling the Russians, the pressures taken off, I'm not under investigation. Yeah, he knows no Russians.

What? But he knows no Russians. No, of course he doesn't know any Russians. Yeah, his pride will be the death of him. He didn't meet those guys until that day. That day. Yeah. Yeah.

But seriously, he thinks he's smarter than everyone. Like, he's like, I just got to believe in myself. I just stick to my story. I'm just so ridiculous. Believe in the ball for yourself. Yeah, in theory, it sounds nice, but when you're a Trump and you're an idiot, you know. It's yeah.

Yeah, okay. Whatever Trump. No one believes you. Well, unfortunately, there's not a case. That's really weird. Yeah, I'm blame at you blame it you can't just say that uh... so the president never denied making those statements by the way uh... to the russians and the white house didn't dispute the account instead the issue

to statements saying by grandstanding and politicizing the investigation into russia's actions james komi created unnecessary pressure on our ability to engage and negotiate with russia the investigation would have always continued, and obviously the termination of Komi would not have ended it, even though he said that to the Russians. Once again, the real story is that our national security has been undermined by the leaking of private and highly classified information, not by firing the FBI director that was investigating Russian interference.

Let's focus on the snitch. He's like a mobster. Yeah, like a gangster. He is. He's like the bigger issue is that I can't trust These people. Yeah, I need a loyalty. Yeah, these hosting loyal. Yeah, basically neutral term, right? I assume So how big said that when she told the president about the reports on his meeting with Lavrov that he did not look concerned And said of Komi he's crazy and When McGann asked the president about the comments to Lavrov, the president said it was good that Comey was fired

because that took the pressure off. By making it clear, he was not under investigation so he could get more work done. Not if you're the one that directed his firing. Yeah. And everyone told you that that wouldn't in the investigation. And the same morning,

May 10th, President called McCabe again, according to a memorandum, McCabe wrote right after the call, because he's smart. The President asked McCabe to come to the White House to discuss whether the President should visit the FBI headquarters and make a speech. The President said he received hundreds of messages

from FBI employees indicating their support for terminating Komi. Lie. He also told McCabe that Komi should not have been permitted to travel back to Washington, D.C. on the FBI's airplane after he had been terminated and that he did not want Komi in the building again, even to collect his belongings. That first life. That first life, Sarah Sanders got off way too easy on pedaling.

Yeah, and they talk about he, Muller goes after for that too. And McCabe decided to allow Komi to return on the FBI jet to Washington after he'd been terminated, because he was giving us speech at the LA FBI field office. And he's like, I let him get back on the plane because the plane had to come back to DC with all of his staff and all the FBI and the secret service. We were coming anyway, so we figured we'd give him a ride. When you get fired and you pack up your desk, you still get to walk out the same hallway you walked in. You know, just get ejected out of your seat

into the air, walk a shame. And that's not in the report, but I know that McCabe told Trump that when he met with him, he's like, the plane had to come back, so I made the decision. And he was mad about it. And so when McCabe met the president that afternoon, the president without prompting told McCabe

that people in the FBI love Trump and estimated that at least 80% of the FBI voted for him and asked McCabe who he voted for in the 2016 presidential election. And that afternoon, Sarah Sanders, this is what you were getting at, spoke to the president about his decision to fire Komi, and then told reporters that Trump, the DOJ,

and members of Congress had lost confidence in Komi. And most importantly, the rank and file of the FBI had lost confidence in their director. In response to questions from reporters, Sanders said that Rosenstein decided on his own to review Comey's performance and that Rosenstein decided on his own to come to the president on Monday, May 8th to express his concerns about Comey. Nice. And when a reporter indicated that the vast majority of fb i agent supported comi

sanders said look we've heard from countless members of the fb i that say very different things and follows yet total and following that press conference anders spoke to the president who told her she did a good job and did not point out any inaccuracies in her comments and sanders told uh... muller

that uh... sarah huckabee sanders told muller told Mueller that her reference to hearing from countless members of the FBI was a slip of the tongue. She would lie, a lie. And she also recalled that her statement in a separate press interview that rank and file FBI agents lost confidence in Comey was a comment she made in the heat of the moment that was not founded on anything. Wow. That should always be like, you know, like on the little, what do they call it? The thing where the headlines are on the news? Where they put the... Oh, the

chiron? The chiron. Yeah, yeah, she's always put that when she's speaking. Like, just quote, I never forget that she said it was founded on nothing. Yeah. Because she always, that's literally every time she speaks. Yeah, so she's true. That's the truth. That she lied about that. Yeah, yeah. Just like her stage direction is always parentheses lying. Yeah, yeah, I don't think there's lying. In two, always. Press room, Sanders lying. Cut to lying. Yeah, it's just always in there. That's such a bad quality to have too that when you get all flustered in a news conference, which you are never once supposed to be the coolest and calmest person, that's presumably why you'd be selected for that position that you freak out and just lie

That's why I like to go back and watch the West Wing because she was the best Press conference holder in all the land and I just wish that that was reality Also that same day by the way sessions and roses dying spoke to McGann separately each and expressed concern that the White House was creating a Narrative that rose in Stein had initiated the decision to fire Comey. And White House Council's office agreed that it was factually wrong to say the Department of Justice had initiated Comey's termination. So White House Council agreed. And McGann asked attorneys in the White House Council's office to work with the press

office to correct the lies that Huckabee Sanders and Trump told. And the next day, Trump participated in an interview with Lester Holt. Dun, dun, dun. And this is the one where the president told, well, before he went in the interview, the president told the White House Council's office in advance of the interview, that the communications team

could not get the story right. So he was going on Lester Holt to get it right and say what really happened. That's a little fun piece that we didn't know. Because we know he went on Lester Holt, and we right and say what really happened. That's a little fun piece that we didn't know because we know we went on Lester Holt and we know we admitted to obstruction of justice. We thought it was improv. Yeah. But the fact that he told McGahn's office in advance of the interview saying, you guys

messed up, you can get the story right, you're wrong, I'm right, I'm going to go on Lester Holt, I'm going to say what really happened. And during the interview, the president stated he made the decision to fire Comey before the president met with Rosenstein in sessions. And the president told Holt I was going to fire regardless of recommendation. Right. And only coincidentally did Rosenstein just on his own accord decide to bring this letter to Trump right when he was also going to fire him. Yeah. And then Rosenstein, you know, that that's what Trump told Holt. Like actually kind of really what happened trump's is worth any but regardless of recommendation i was gonna fire

combing there was no good time to do it uh... and in fact when i decided to just do it i said to myself i said you know this russia thing with trump and russia is a made up story it's an excuse by the democrats were having lost an election they should have won i love how he says i say to myself to you just shows i hate trying to convince himself of the story is like i look in the mirror and i'm like because it just shows that he's trying to convince himself of his story. He's like, I look in a mirror and I'm like, you didn't do anything wrong.

I tried to convince myself. I mean, I said to myself, yeah, also they should have an election they should have won. Is that an admission of his undeservedness? Yeah, right. They should have won. Yeah, that's what he's saying. Because we cheated.

And in response to a question about whether he was angry with Komi about the Russia investigation, Trump said, as far as I'm concerned, I want that thing to be absolutely done properly. The president added that he realized his termination of Komi probably maybe will confuse people with the result that it might even lengthen out the investigation, but he had to do the right thing for the American people and Komi was the wrong man for the position. I think he got that length in the investigation bit from Chris Christie. Remember when Chris Christie told him that you can't shorten an investigation. At least he remembered. Yeah.

He can only make it longer and that probably stuck with him like yeah longer. It's like but I had to do it for the people. It wasn't for me. And the president described Komi as a showboat and a grandstander again and said the fby has been in turmoil said he wanted to have a really competent capable director and the president affirmed that he expected the new fby director to continue the russia investigation later that night following the lester hold interview trump tweeted russia must be laughing up their sleeves

i don't know what that was an old time you think that i thought i just thought i was going to get it watching as i like that. As the US tears itself apart over a democratic excuse for losing the election. Yeah, I don't know what laughing up their sleeves means. I don't know what that is. I've heard I've got nothing up my sleeve.

Yeah, exactly. Laughing up a storm. Laughing up their sleeves. Laughing up their sleeves, I don't know. So Trump tweeted the next morning, again, the story there was collusion between Russia and Trump was fabricated by Dems as an excuse for losing the election.

The president also tweeted, James Comey better hope there are no tapes of our conversations before he starts leaking to the press. And when James clapper himself and virtually everyone else with knowledge of the witch hunt says there's no collusion, when does it end? So I'm so pleased.

When will it stop? Never sir. I can't believe I called him sir. Guys we'll be right back in just a second. Hey, this is A.G. from Muller She Wrote and I'm happy to announce that the neighborhood watches back and it's way more convenient and high tech than it used to be. Remember neighbors meeting up, playing bridge, talking about things, going on in the neighborhood, keeping each other safe, looking out for each other.

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You'll be glad you did. Alright guys, welcome back. It's time for my favorite part. This is the analysis. This is where we go over the three pieces needed to prove or needed to, you know, indict someone for criminal obstruction of justice. And the first of those three things is the obstructive act. We're here on page 74 for this.

If you're following along. And Mueller says the act of firing Komi removed the individual overseeing the FBI's Russia investigation. The president knew Komi was personally involved in the investigation based on Komi's briefing of the gang of eight, Komi's March 20th, 2017 testimony about the investigation, and the president's one-on-one conversations with Komi. Firing Komi would qualify as an obstructive act, if it had the natural and probable effect

of interfering with or impeding the investigation. For example, if the termination would have the effect of delaying or disrupting the investigation, or providing the president with the opportunity to appoint a director who would take a different approach to the investigation that the president perceived as more protective of his personal interests. So remember that because that's an either or. Both of those things don't have to be true.

It doesn't have to disrupt the investigation and protect him. Allow the opportunity for a friendly director to come in. It's either of those things would do it. Nice. And remember that because it's going to be important. I'd like to add here that Mueller was only investigating criminal conduct and not counterintelligence issues and removing the head of the FBI not only impeded the investigation or seemingly so it might have impeded a future investigation by a future FBI director, but it negatively

impacted national security because it could have impeded the investigation in Russian interference in our elections. So you have to keep in mind there's probably a counterintelligence aspect to this too. So relevant circumstances bearing on that issue include whether the president's actions had the potential to discourage a successor director or other law enforcement officials in their conduct of the Russian investigation, meaning firing Komi would not only impeded his investigation but could impede the future director investigating because obviously if you fired Trump or if you fired Komi over the Russia thing, that thing with Russia that was over my head,

the next director isn't going to be so ready to continue the investigation which could impede the investigation. Because they wouldn't want to risk getting fired, like getting settled into a position that they'll get, like, you know, rejected from immediately. The 100% interesting, yeah. And I didn't think of that. It wasn't just firing Komi that impede it or disrupted the investigation. It was more that in firing Komi for the rush of thing,

the next incoming FBI director will be conflicted. Well, wouldn't be conflicted, but wouldn't be, wouldn't want to continue the investigation, or at least not as robustly or leave the president out of it. Yeah, yeah. Keep the president happy so they can come up. It's almost like damage, it's like tainted. Yeah, yeah, before they get there. And the president fired Komi abruptly without offering him an opportunity to resign, banned

him from the FBI building and criticized criticized him publicly, calling him a showboat, and claiming the FBI was in turmoil under his leadership. And the president followed the termination with public statements that were highly critical of the investigation. For example, three days after firing Komi, Trump referred to the investigation as a witch hunt and when does it end. And the reason he's put Mueller's putting this in there is because that taints any future FBI director. So these actions had the potential to affect a successor director's conduct of the investigation.

They anticipated effective removing the FBI director, however, would not necessarily be to prevent or impede the FBI from continuing its investigation. As a general matter, FBI investigations run under the operational direction of the FBI personnel levels below the FBI director. And man and made a similar point when he told the president, he could fire the director, but he operational direction of the FBI personnel levels below the FBI director. And man had made a similar point when he told the president he could fire the director but he couldn't fire the FBI.

The White House issued a press statement the day after Komi was fired saying the investigation would have always continued and obviously the termination of Komi would not have ended it. In addition, in his May 11th interview with Lester Holt, the president stated he understood when he made the decision to fire Ky that the action might prolong the investigation. And the president chose McCabe to serve as an interim director, even though McCabe told the president he had worked very closely with Comey and was part of all the decisions of the Clinton investigation.

But Trump also said that the firing Comey took the rush of the thing off. But, so, what Mueller's getting at is, no firing him specifically doesn't impede the investigation because the FBI rolls on, but firing him taints future FBI directors, which does impede the investigation. He doesn't directly say it here, but he says, you know, what this or this, this is real. I don't have evidence of this.

You decide. So I think what Mueller is saying here is there was an obstructive act by coming out and criticizing Komi and firing him publicly and calling him a showboat and a grandstander and calling the Russian investigation of which hunt. Right. All goes to proof that it impeded the investigation because any future FBI director would be reluctant to engage in the investigative act. Absolutely. Like if he had fired him quietly, that'd be totally different, but the way

that he fired him, it yeah, implies obstruction. Yeah, because he brought it up in the context of Russia and the investigation. Is that interesting? It is. Yeah. Are you saying that it would or are they saying that it would affect the future investigation because it's disperaging by what's exactly the reasoning. Okay, so just firing Komi doesn't impede the investigation because the FBI is made up of a zillion people right investigation goes on would just continue on.

But to put a new director to fire Komi loudly tell everyone on him for the Russian investigation right and it and all this in that he's a show about. Komi, loudly tell everyone, talk shit on him, for the Russian investigation, and all this, and that he's a showboat. The next FBI director could be tainted, like Joliza said. Yeah, so my question was, is it the reasoning?

Because then that person would be like, oh, well, maybe this investigation is a sham, and I'm gonna change now how I go forward with it. No, I think it would more be like, I don't wanna get fired, so I'm not gonna. That's the reason. Yeah, okay. That's what I would think.

Okay. We see it happening with other things, right? Like with these acting directors, I remember reading about that somewhere, like someone who was in a position where someone else had been fired. I forget the position, but it was definitely an acting one. And recently too, it wasn't like border patrol.

It was like some department where the person literally in charge is like afraid of the person that was fired before them. And that seems to be Trump's strategy. I got to come back with the source. But I think it's what I'm saying. I know what you mean. Yeah, like Trump being like a dick and using the acting positions is a way to like threaten someone like, hey, see what happened to the last guy.

Yeah, and not only that, and that's why people turned down these acting positions is a way to like threaten someone like, hey, see what happened to the last guy. Yeah, and not only that, and that's why people turn down these acting positions. But you know, a lot of, because you think, well, that guy got fired, sessions got fired, you know, but bar, so bar isn't going to do, recuse himself from things like the Epstein investigation or things like the Mueller investigation. Yeah, for some reason he's more afraid of what Trump says about him publicly than the world.

Yeah, but that's another weird thing, right? He said, why are they not more afraid of the public's opinion than Trump's? Like why is Trump so powerful? Because they want that job. I guess so. That's it. They just want the job.

That would be so hard to prove in court though that someone would not proceed with the investigation out of fear because no one's going to come out and say, yeah, I'm scared. Like that, that's, that's certain. Or the right thing you write, it's rare. Yeah, yeah. And to answer your question, Mueller says two things here.

He says relevant circumstances bearing on that issue include whether the president's actions, when he fired Comey, had the potential to discourage a successor director or other law enforcement officials in their conduct of the Russia investigation. And then he also said those actions had the potential to affect a successor's director's conduct of the Russian investigation. And then he also said, those actions had the potential to affect a successor's director's conduct of the investigation. So I have to come out and say I'm scared. I'm scared. Right, but it's just the act of firing him that way alone.

Like the next director doesn't have to come out and say, oh, I'm timid. Yeah, I look. It's just a fly. I think what he's saying is that there could be a hundred reasons that the next director wouldn't want to correctly and thoroughly investigate the Russian investigation. Either he's scared of the public, he's scared of Trump, he's scared of getting fired, he thinks it's a hoax because Trump told it was, told him it was, it could or her, it could be any number of hosts of reasons. We don't know what that reason would be because we didn't, you know, run into that. But yeah, and since DOJ officials are soapy,

the books would be hard to prove which one of those maybe they were falling victim to. Yeah, because then you have to go to intent again and they would definitely not do what Trump did, right? Yeah. And if the whole reasoning behind them potentially not wanting to continue

the investigation is because they want to keep their job, they sure is shit aren't going to come out and say, yeah, I'm not doing the investigation because I'm afraid I'm gonna lose my job You know they'll come out and say we're investigating we're thoroughly moving along and behind the scenes. They're just You know, circular filing everything that comes to them You know like oh, yeah, this is great. Thanks for finding that and none of it would ever come out Because they either don't want to get fired or they're afraid or they think it's a witch hunt whatever it is Yeah, I think Mueller is saying here that it's a witch hunt, whatever it is.

Yeah. I think Mueller is saying here that it's not about just firing Komi that would impede the investigation. Him being gone, the investigation can go on. It's about a potential successive director and they could impede the investigation. So I think there is an obstructive act here. And then in nexus to proceeding, the nexus element would be satisfied by evidence showing that a grand jury proceeding or criminal prosecution arising from an FBI investigation was objectively

foreseeable and actually contemplated by the president when he terminated Comey. And several facts would be relevant to such a showing. At the time, the president fired Comey. A grand jury had not begun to hear evidence related to the Russian investigation. No grand jury subpoenas had been issued. On March 20th, however, Komi announced the FBI was investigating Russia, including an assessment of whether any crimes were committed, and it was widely known that the FBI as part of the Russian investigation was investigating the hacking of the DNC computers, a clear criminal

offense. In addition, at the time the President fired fired Komi. Evidence indicates the president knew that Flynn was still under investigation, criminal investigation, and could potentially be prosecuted despite the president's February 14, 2017 request that Komi let the Flynn thing go. Was it a Valentine's Day card? I think so.

And I love you. He put it on one of those little crunchy hearts. Yeah, left flingo, yes, no, maybe. No, maybe. And I've worked fifth I'm March 5th. On March 5th, the White House Council's office was informed the FBI was asking for a transition period records relating to Flynn, indicating

the FBI was still actively investigating Flynn. So what we have so far is Mueller saying, the president didn't think he was specifically under investigation. But he knew there was a broader FBI investigation. He knew that Komi testified saying that there was an investigation and Komi wouldn't say that Trump wasn't under investigation, and not only that, but Flynn was under investigation. That was all, that was important to Flynn. So, or to Trump.

In the same day, the president told advisors he wanted to call Dana Bente, the acting Attorney General for the Russia investigation, to find out whether the White House or the president was being investigated. And on March 31st, the president signaled his awareness that Flynn remained in legal jeopardy by tweeting that Mike Flynn should ask for immunity before he agreed to provide testimony to the FBI. And in late March, the president asked McFarland to pay Tim McFarland to pass a message to Flynn, telling him the president felt bad for him, and that he should stay strong further demonstrating the president's awareness of Flynn's criminal exposure.

This is all that stuff that was in the Flynn obstruction of justice stuff, where he didn't really think that that was necessarily asking to let the Flynn go. Thing go doesn't seem like that was an obstructive act, but he said, but keep and put a pin in this for later. And now it makes, it's relevant here. Because fling being under investigation is the nexus to a criminal proceeding. Oh, okay, okay.

And then we have intent. And you'll find out in this section why it was important that Trump knew that fling was under investigation and how that went to his intent of firing Komi. And it's, it gets, it gets cool. Substantial evidence indicates substantial evidence indicates that the catalyst for the president's decision to fire Komi was Komi's unwillingness to publicly state that Trump was not under investigation.

Despite the president's repeated requests to Komi to make such an announcement and not just Komi, he asked everybody. And in the week's leading up to Komi's May 3rd Senate Judiciary Committee testimony, Trump told McGann it would be the last straw if Komi didn't set the record straight. But during his May 3rd testimony, Komi refused to answer the questions about whether the president was being investigated. And Komi's refusal angered the president who criticized Jeff, just calling him Jeff now, for leaving him isolated on an island. You left me on an island.

And two days later, the president told his advisors he had decided to fire Komi and dictated the letter to Stephen Miller that began with a reference to the fact that the president was not being investigated. So this was, this is, this is, this is, Mueller's really driving this home. This, tell everyone I'm not investigated. Tell everyone what happened. Well, I greatly appreciate you,

appreciate you informing me I'm not under investigation concerning what I've, you know everyone I'm not investigated. Tell everyone what happened. Well, I greatly appreciate you informing me I'm not under investigation concerning what I've, you know, call a witch hunt. That's how that letter started with the firing of Comey. And the president later asked Rosenstein to include the Russia stuff in his memorandum, put it back in there. And to say that Comey had told the president he was not under investigation.

And the president's final termination letter included a sentence at the president's insistence and against McGann's advice and that pissed off Rosenstein stating that Komi had told the president on three separate occasions he was not under investigation. The president's other stated rationales are why he fired Komi are not similarly supported by the evidence. So let me read that again. The president's other stated rationales for why he fired Komi are not similarly supported by the evidence. So basically they narrowed it down to yeah. Yeah and so so the termination letter the

president sent a Miller uh sorry the termination letter the president and Stephen Miller prepared in New Jersey cited Komi's handling of the Clinton email investigation and the president told McCabe he fired Komi for that reason but the facts surrounding Komi's handling of the Clinton email investigation were well known to the president at McCabe he fired Komi for that reason. But the facts surrounding Komi's handling of the Clinton email investigation were well known to the president at the time he assumed office. And the president had made it clear to both Komi and the president's senior staff in early 2017 he wanted Komi to stay on as the director.

Nice facts. Yeah, well, evidence says you lied about that. And so Rosenstein articulated his criticism of Comi's handling of the Clinton investigation after the president had already decided to fire Comi. According to the president, we've talked a lester holt. And the president's draft termination letter also stated that the morale of the FBI was in an all-time low. Sanders told the

press after Comi's termination, the White House had heard from countless FBI agents who lost confidence in Comi. Countless, you can't even count them, I mean this. Because they know nothing's zero. That's what countless from countless FBI agents who lost confidence in Komi. Countless, you can't even count them, I mean this. Because they know this is zero. That's what countless means. But the evidence does not support those claims. So here's where Mueller just straight out says the president lied.

President told Komi at their January 27th dinner that the people of the FBI really like him, like Komi. Right. No evidence suggests the president heard otherwise before deciding to terminate Komi. And Sanders acknowledges to investigators that her comments were not founded on anything. So that's all bullshit. This is what you know where Mueller says all of his other reasons are fake and I can prove it. Yeah. This is what he's doing right now. You don't want to try to light a molar.

In any situation. Totally not. Especially with all the other stupid bullshit you said. His wife can't even try. Yeah. He he's like see at this time on this day you said this uh... can you have to remember like i can imagine having to remember all of his lies you know he trips up on it to all the time hill that's i think we have to flop so much i think he forgets as well he's human but he's the best and more also considered uh... why it was important to the president that komi announced publicly that he was not under investigation was so important to Trump and some evidence indicates the president believed that the

erroneous perception he was under investigation harmed his ability to manage domestic and foreign affairs, particularly dealings with Russia. The president told Komi that the cloud of the Russia business was making it difficult to run the country. The president told Sessions and McGann that foreign leaders had expressed sympathy to him for being under investigation and the dictators Yeah, and that perception he was under investigation was hurting his ability to address foreign relations issues The president complained to Rogers that the thing with the Russia thing with Russians was messing up Was messing up his ability to get things done with Russia and told Dan Coats. I can't do anything with Russia There's things I want to do with Russia and told Dan Coats, I can't do anything with Russia. There's things I want to do with Russia. No, with trade, with ISIS, but they're all over me with this. And the President also may have

viewed Komi as an subordinate for his failure to make clear in a May 3rd testimony the President was not under investigation. Other evidence, however, indicates the President wanted to protect himself from an investigation into his campaign. The day after learning about the FBI interview with Flynn, the president had a one-on-one dinner with Comey against the advice of senior age and told Comey he needs Comey's loyalty. And this is the part where Mueller said that while the loyalty asked itself might not have been an obstructive act, that it plays into intent in firing Comey to protect himself from the investigation. So, it's just so amazing that it comes up in

his previous potential obstructive acts and that in itself is not an obstructive act, but when you put it in the context of firing Comey, right, and tainting a future director, and that your intent is then, you know, that it comes back under to prove intent on another obstructive act or a larger obstructive act. Yeah, that's just amazing. That's just amazing. Versatile pieces of evidence. Mm-hmm. Use them again and again. Yeah.

They're like wardrobe separates. When the president, we could do one of those fashion plates. Yeah, it was like a different top, different bottom. Yeah, obstructive act, nexus of, yeah, and you just make some, that'd be great. So when the president later asked Comey for a second time to make public, he was not under investigation. He brought up loyalty again, saying, because I've been very loyal to you, very loyal, we have that thing, you know. And the president learned of Sessions' recusal.

The president was furious and said he wanted an attorney general who would protect him the way Kennedy and Holder protected their presidents. And Trump also said he wanted to be able to tell his attorney general who to investigate. That's scary. In addition, the president had motive to put the FBI's Russia investigation behind him. The evidence does not establish that the termination of Komi was designed to cover up a conspiracy between the Trump campaign in Russia. As described in volume one, the evidence uncovered in the investigation did not establish that the president or those close to him were involved in the charged Russian computer

hacking or active measures conspiracies, or that the president otherwise had unlawful relationships with any Russian officials. But the evidence does indicate that throughout that a thorough FBI investigation would uncover facts about the campaign and the president personally that the president could have understood to be crimes or that would give rise to personal and political concerns. So there's your intent. And although the president publicly stated during, and after the election he had no connection to Russia, the Trump organization through Michael Cohen

was pursuing the proposed Trump Tower Moscow project. There's something for everything. Through June 2016, and Canada Trump was repeatedly briefed on the progress of those efforts. And in addition, some witnesses said that Trump redacted, redacted. And how one of those in a while? I know. At a time when public reports stated the Russian intelligence

officials were behind the hacks and that Trump privately sought information about future WikiLeaks releases. And I think stones under that redacted stuff. And more broadly, multiple witnesses described to President's preoccupation with press coverage of the Russian investigation and his persistent concern that it raised questions about the legitimacy of his election.

There's that sad, dick energy again. Those redacted bits, like I said, I think they're stone discussing future WikiLeaks releases with Trump. I know Gates witnessed it at one point, I think Cohen did too. And that was mentioned in volume one. And finally, the president and the White House aides initially advanced a pre-textual reason for the press and the public for Komi's termination. In the immediate aftermath of the firing, the president dictated a press statement suggesting

he had acted based on DOJ recommendations, and the White House press officials repeated that story, but the president had decided to fire Komi before the White House solicited those recommendations. And although the president ultimately acknowledged that he was going to fire Komi regardless of the DOJ recommendations, he did so only after DOJ officials made it clear to him that they would resist the White House's suggestion that they have prompted the process that led to Komi's

termination. And the initial reliance on a pretextual justification could support an inference that Trump had concerns about providing the real reason of the firing, although the evidence does not resolve whether those concerns were personal, political, or both. So there's another piece of evidence towards intent. He lied about the reasons for firing Comey because he knew that the evidence does not

resolve whether those concerns were personal, political, but he hit, you don't hide a reason, you don't lie about something unless you have, you know that it's wrong, and that proves intent, consciousness of guilt. Exactly. So intent, I think, was established. So this, I think, is our first big wapper of obstruction of justice, because it meets all three criteria. We have the obstructive act of firing Komi, not because it would stop the Russian investigation

at the FBI, but because it could interfere and impede the investigation because of future FBI director would be reluctant. And then of course we have the nexus to proceeding. And then is the Flynn investigation, oddly, but it works, right? Oh yeah. And and then the intent and there were like six different Mm-hmm reasons for intent and incredible. Yeah, I had to be cynical here But all of these are

conceivable things not they they still would have to be held up through an actual impeachment proceeding And I don't know if they will because I think they're too hard to prove I'm like traumatized by the thresholds that investigators need to breach and meet before they actually charge someone. But he has all this evidence. Yeah, but some of it is like, like you would have to,

if that's the case, then he would 100%. They would go to impeachment right now, I think. I think they know that it's not gonna be that easy. They're not gonna be able to just be like, look at this, here it is. People are gonna make counterarguments. Well, no, maybe it's conceivable that he was thinking something else when he said this

and you can't prove that that is a recognition of his own guilt and his own guilty consciousness. Yeah, I disagree. Yeah, yeah, because all the evidence is here and then all the supporting evidence, this is just the report in a summary. There's all the underlying evidence and documentation. All of this is noted. Every single sentence in this has a footnote by it, either from a testimony or from a document

or from an email or from a text message or from a judiciary or a testimony, a congressional testimony, or from what Mueller got from 302s. And he lays it all out in each of the three of these steps. Now, I'm not a lawyer, we're not lawyers. No. And so as I'm reading this, I don't think that first obstructive act meets all three criteria, I didn't think the second one did. I do think this third one does, based on him saying the word substantial evidence to prove. And you don't only have to look at this but you have to look at this and here's how I prove this so that that meets that and then this and that is this and Flynn yep oh nexus and that is this and so I see it's all here. Right and we need

Congress people to see this too is that with a whole point of Mueller laying this out so that people can be like oh here's one. If the net like crux of their impeachment proceeding is going to be an obstructive act, yeah. Okay. But probably not the only, yeah, yeah. Well, obstruction of justice in the Mueller report here could be a couple of articles in impeachment or one article of impeachment.

There's probably 10 other ones that have nothing to do with obstruction of justice and the Mueller investigation. Yeah, okay. Like racist. Yeah. And Congress maybe, because they're congressmen and but they do have lawyers, but it is evidence. Now, whether or not the Senate, the Senate doesn't have to convict based on even if there's a 100% evidence, even if there's a literal smoking gun.

They can still vote against it. Yeah, they can still blow it against it. Yeah, they can not hear it. But once Trump leaves office in 2020, 2021, and somebody else wants to bring these charges against him as a private citizen, all the evidence is here. And this would be an open and shut case. That's why those 1,000 US prosecutors said, I hope so. Well, I mean, if you don't take my words

where it take the word of 1,000 former US prosecutors. No, I'm not denying that I think that that all lays everything out as it should be laid out. I just don't trust that the court proceedings would go the way that we want them to because they have been all the way up until this point in a lot of other cases. You mean with the Senate voting in 2024?

No, like if he did get charged and when he leaves the presidency or something, like what court proceedings? I went, if Trump left and I charged him for any, and I tried to indict him for any of these. No, but what court proceedings? I'm asking Jordan what court proceedings have made you doubt.

So I shouldn't say court proceedings, but for example, Mueller not being able to come up on enough evidence to have more information in the Mueller report, that would be laid out just like that, because it doesn't rise to the threshold I guess my point is it seems like there's a threshold that something we can all agree upon that is a lot higher than we all would have Hoped because it seems so clear as day and I like traumatized by that like why Mueller didn't indict or just that he Because he couldn't indict no like in other ways when he couldn't find like in volume one, when he couldn't find

the evidence that was necessary for something exactly exactly stuff like that. Right. And a difference, I think personally and I could be totally wrong, is that in volume one, he said, we did not have sufficient evidence to bring criminal charges. He made that decision. Right. And in volume two, he says, we can't exonerate the president for obstruction of justice.

And he refused to say that he committed obstruction of justice, and he refused to indict him for obstruction of justice. And so you just have a bunch of information. And we're all sitting here wondering, is this enough? I think that the first one and the second one wouldn't be enough to convict and maintain. I think this third one would, but again,

I'm not a law professor. Yeah. I hope, I mean, I hope so. I'm 100% not thinking I don't think it's enough based on my limited knowledge of how the law works and the justice system I guess, but just, I'm truly afraid in my gut that even though it seems like it should be open and shut. It's not because there's a lot of stuff

in general that seems like it should be open and shut. It seems open and shut that if the president goes and says I'm going to grab her by the pussy that he wouldn't be elected. Like there's a lot of stuff that just doesn't make sense. I know that's a different example outside of the justice system, but I know what you mean. And plus we just have this overall distrust in the Department of Justice right now because Barr is at the head of it. And so like when they shut down the SDNY case into the hush money payments, seemed like an open and shut case.

Right. And that got shut down. Right. So maybe there's an example. Yeah, or like, I guess going back to the whole disappointment in court proceedings, Manafort sentencing, for example, something like that, which I know is different,

sentencing, right? Right, but in general, I just don't, I'm afraid justice will not be served. That's all I'm saying. I'm totally like, go here and argument, this is strictly a good thing. No, and I totally get it. The, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, general. And we've got some amazing attorneys general at states. And I think that based

on what I understand from the, you know, what 900 something, whatever former US attorneys who said, not all of these instances, but certainly at least five or six of them, I can't remember what they were saying. Six of them are things that I would go to try with because I am confident that you would be able to obtain and maintain a conviction in a court of law. So maybe after that it's a little bit better but as far as impeachment goes, this is well meets the criteria for an impeachment article because the Senate just won't go for it. The Senate's not going to go for it. And even if they did go, they're not going to remove him. You need 67 votes to remove him. Even if they brought it into the Senate. Yeah, that's kind of I guess also another thing I was sort of hinting at is let's

entertain the idea that the Senate would themselves entertain that this may be enough evidence for him to be impeached. I'm afraid that they even at that point they're going to look at it and they're because they're going to have to give a reason for why they would look at what the House brought them and say no and vote against it. They're going to have to give a reason for why they would look at what the house brought them and say, no, and vote against it. They're gonna have to give reasons for that. And I'm wondering what their reasons are going to be if that happens. And I feel like it's gonna be stuff like,

the world's just not clear enough and shit like that. That would be inconsistent with the law, but they do have the right to do it. And that's what makes it different from a judicial proceeding when it's an impeachment proceeding. So yeah, I totally feel you on that. Yeah, but I am hopeful. Yeah, you totally blow me away

with confidence on that statement there. Now, I understand, we've tweeted it out. We've lost faith in the Department of Justice because of Bill Barr. And the only way to get it back is to get a new president and get bar out of there. Yeah, and I take me floundering to make like a good defense of my non-hope. It's like, I'm like a regular citizen,

I'm way more informed than a regular citizen actually, and even still, I'm just like, than a regular citizen actually, and even still, I'm just like, it just feels like it's not gonna turn out well. That's basically all I'm saying, and that seems like, but we did come up with a good example with the SDNY going dark on the Hush Money Payment investigation into the Trump organization. There were signed checks.

Yeah, totally. Signed checks and misappropriated funds that went to a campaign. Right. And there's the FEC voting against looking into Torsion and Bhutna further with the NRA. That's something else that's happening right now when we're recording this. And just as soon as Bargott and they just all started falling apart. And it's just whether it's impeachment in the Congress or if it's the Senate or if it's just, whether it's impeachment in the Congress, or if it's the Senate, or if

it's the Department of Justice, I think we just have a real hard time right now trusting the justice system. And that's what Joyce Vance was writing about her time. Yeah, definitely. Especially if you don't have the privilege of knowing exactly how all these things work, and knowing how maybe, you know, what we're talking about is cut and dry enough. There's just that lingering sentiment that I think I'm gonna have for like he said until the whole fucking department changes. Yeah and it's cleaned up. Yeah. And replaced. Good point. Good point. But I am a hundred percent

confident that he broke the law. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what gets done about it? It sure feels that way. It's totally up in the air. But with with this evidence laid out in this way, I am 100%. This is the first one. It could be the second. But for me, and my limited understanding of how the law works, this is the first slam dunk with the way that he spelled it out. So anyway, guys, that is the section on the Komi firing

and all of the shit surrounding it. And next time, we're going gonna go over sections E and F in part 15 of our special coverage. Sorry, part 15, what's part 15? Yes. Oh, no, no, no, it's part two, section two, E and F. There we go, of our special coverage. The page is page 78 to 94, just go there.

And it's about Trump's efforts to fire Mueller and his efforts to curtail his investigation I bet these are gonna be slam dunks too. Very juicy. Yeah, cuz Mueller was like hey bro. I'm investigating you firing me trippies. Yeah, very meta I wonder if that if you'd have and you can't recuse yourself I am I am the main witness in this. I'm interested to see how we sorts it out. Any final thoughts, guys? No, just excited for more of Mueller report.

This is actually really cool. Breaking it down even though we've talked about a lot of these topics before, hashing it out or rehashing it always is nice. And I wonder actually which Congress people are listening, maybe. Because they should be listening to some of these at least out of the report. Yeah, even the regular audible one. I wonder like, I don't know.

Hey, staffers, what's up? Yeah, yeah, it's really cool. Yeah, it's fun. I learn a lot and also terrifying. Yeah, definitely. You know what my sad feelings for now are reminiscent of the 2018 election when I was discouraged by the results because I wanted there to be just a ridiculously

large wave. And it was, but because the context of everything is so fucked up, right? Because everything else is so messed up and there's such a huge hill to climb for us to get back to a place that is right. It's hard to like celebrate what you just laid out, which is a pretty big victory in terms of what he found at least and what Congress could take and run with and what another office could take and run with once he gets out of the presidency.

But yeah, I know, you're like, I was like, I'm losing sight of what's in front of us, which is objectively a good thing. Yeah, I feel like too feel like we got 42 seats in the largest vote disparity between Republicans and Democrats since Watergate. And we were all like, oh man, yeah, yeah, like not good enough because for example, where we're at right now because we don't have to send it, we can't go anywhere with impeachment. You can't get any gun control and legislation. Nothing's getting passed.

Nothing's happening. We can't get election security implemented. We can't get... I think he's sitting on 128 bills, Mitch McConnell. Wow. Oh my God. Yeah, and you say when Trump gets out of office, it's some people think if he's like the first president I can think of

where people are like, I wonder if he'll leave. Has it been any other one? Maybe Nixon, right? No, no, right? Nixon resign, nobody ever thought he would. I wonder right before resigned. Has it been such a, sorry, dinner? No, you're right on point with that.

He's so different from everyone else, right? Yeah, no one's ever been such a demagogue. Yeah, or even joked on multiple occasions about a forever president or a third time. Yeah, he's like, oh, off the liberal just keep telling them trump twenty forever you know like he keeps saying that joke yet it's ridiculous but i think deep down he's just trying to like loop that truth you know yeah one of the strategies yeah

we thought it was joking about buying greenland and then no he was a serious and he canceled his god damn me greenland because they said we're not selling you Greenland. Yeah, the fact that he's president, that's I will never underestimate him because I thought his campaign was a joke. I think he I think he likes us to not know when he's serious and when he's joking. It works in his favor, yeah. Definitely. But then the objective truth going back to the election and this is that we are in a better spot now than we would have been had it gone worse.

It was just the most obvious statement. Yeah, we're resisting. That gives me hope. But yeah, the world is going through a wave of, you know, Boris Johnson is like a worse Trump and, right, he just got to like, yeah, no, a lot. A lot. A lot.

That's a very good point. Yeah. Well, like, imagine, imagine if Mueller, like, didn't, or if he never went on luster hold or something, just if these key pieces of evidence that led to him being able to write such like a cogent argument, you know. Yeah. Also like what if Trump was smart? Yeah, like it could be worse Trump could be smart.

We might not be so unhappy right now. Well I was such an idiot. I think Boris Johnson actually is like a smart Trump because I heard that he like messes up his hair on purpose before he goes on stage No, I it could be a rumor, but I just heard from someone who's like I just political nerd But you know, I just seem like a weird thing to make up. I was just like yeah, I'm like yeah, try to give the impression of like I'm You know, I'm a still thing. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, there's a few of them. So I'm gonna go sad. I'm so 2009, right, right But yeah, I mean even if it's not strategy, it may give the impression that he's a

slob, but in reality, he may be smarter than that. So it could be an intention. Oh, we'll always, we'll always wonder, like, was it on purpose? Yeah. But he actually needed it. Yeah. That's the sad thing to think of as a prime minister. Or a president, yeah.

Yeah. So guys, we will catch you next time and keep the hope alive. I know everything seems kind of dreary But like I said justice the wheels of justice grind slowly, but they grind fine. Yes Yes, someone once said I can't remember who I do like your point though about how by the time he would be getting charged Fingers crossed when he's out of office It would be an entirely different DOJ. And that would hopefully be better. I swage my healing. My humble aheras as an attorney.

I'm all for it. Yeah. Why doesn't the whole like democratic and all of them get together and become the administration? That usually happens. Oh good. That happens a lot. It's a lot to hear it because I'm hopeful. We've got Ben Carson on them.

Game can be hum, commerce. Yeah. Yeah, it would be great. Marianne is just makeup. No, she her own special unless she no, no, I'm I know we're we broke up. That's fair. But you know what she'll get through it. Oh yeah, yeah, good bye. She doesn't need pills or anything to get through it. She can just do it.

Yeah, she can dream. She's a very tricky character. I don't know. We're fighting and she doesn't care. Oh All right, so we will see you next time. Please read pages 78 to 94. It's going to be a little bit of a longer one, but we'll get through it pretty quick because it's really sort of two sections that I think could have been one section, but probably not. Mueller knows best. I will see you guys next week. Please take care of yourselves. Please take care of each other. I've been AG. I've been Julie Sganson. I've been Jordan Coburn. And this is Muller She wrote. Muller She wrote is produced and engineered by AG with editing and logo designed by Jelisa Johnson. Our marketing consultant and social media manager is Sarah Least Diner and our subscriber and communications director is Jordan Coburn.

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