Jack - Mueller Report Pt. 15

Episode Date: August 30, 2019

Join us this week for the JUICY parts E and F: Trump’s directs McGahn  to fire Mueller, and his attempt to curtail the special counsel investigation.

Hi, I'm Harry Lickman, host of Talking Feds. Around table, the brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day. Each Monday, I'm joined by a slate of Feds favorites and new voices to break down the headlines and give the insider's view of what's going on in Washington and beyond. Plus, Sidebar is explaining important legal concepts read by your favorite celebrities. Find Talking Fedswear, wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of Muller She Wrote is brought to you by Crest. The Crest 3D

whitening kit removes over 10 years of tough set in stains to give you noticeably whiter teeth, 100% guaranteed. For $20 off your first Crest whitening strip kit, go to CrestWhiteSmile.com and enter promo code AG at checkout. And thanks to Zip Recruiter for supporting Mueller Shebrote's special coverage of the Muller Report. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go where hiring is simple, fast, and smart. A place where growing businesses can connect to qualified candidates.

That place is ziprecruiter.com slash AG. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I think that's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have not have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for having nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia,

if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red hairing. Like all members of the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist. Hello, and welcome to Muller She Road and our ongoing special coverage of the Redacted Muller Report.

I'm your host, A.G. And with me, as always, are Julie Sojonson. Hello. And Jordan Coburn. Hello. So today, we're going to be covering two big acts of obstruction of justice. This is the juicy meat of what I think is volume two. So if you're a volume two person, you're going to be this section.

This is going to be your thing. I think you'll enjoy it. We're covering pages 77 to 98, parts E and F. The effort to remove special counsel and the effort to curtail the scope of the Mueller investigation. And we've been seeing quite a few subpoenas regarding these sections, specifically from the White House Judiciary Committee, citing impeachment powers as the reason, including Zepid's for Don McGann, Lewandowski, Rick Dearborn and Rob Porter, and I think we'll see some

of these names pop up today more than once. So, well, again, pages 77 to 98, volume 2, if you want to follow along or read ahead, or just sit back and relax, and we'll tell you what happened. So, as we've been doing, we're going to skip the overview and dive right into the evidence, because the overview is just a summary of the evidence. So, head to page 78, subsection 1, the appointment of Mueller and Trump's reaction. Yes. Yeah.

I tell you what, it's just so satisfying to me. So basically, Rosenstein, we know, he appointed Mueller on May 17, 2017, 1717. And he then told sessions who then told Trump who at the time was interviewing FBI directors with Jody Hunt and Don McGahn. And according to Hunt's notes, Jody Hunt took really good notes, by the way.

The president slumped back in his chair when he heard the news and said, oh my God, this is terrible, this is the end of my presidency, I'm fucked. I just love seeing him admit that he's in a bad place for once. And I have to also say that just seeing the word fucked in print in a historic document is just it's crazy.

Yeah, that's intense. I love it. Trump got mad. He lashed out at sessions for recusing himself saying, how could you let this happen, Jeff, and contrasted him to holder in Kennedy again, which he just does every time he does mad at Jeff sessions. And sessions told Mueller, Trump said, you were supposed to protect me and then said, everyone tells me if you get one of these independent councils that ruins your presidency. It takes years and years and I won't be able to do anything. This is the worst thing that's ever happened to me.

I'm pretty much, right? Like, it's just, it's shot in Florida for me. It makes me happy. And then Trump told Sessions he should resign. And Sessions said sessions said sure sure, bro. I'll write you a letter and so Hicks Hicks hope Hicks said she'd only seen Trump Like that angry like that one other time and that's when he learned about the access Hollywood tape And both consequences of his own actions. Yeah. Oh, yeah Why am I in this place where I met? Must have been that thing I did or said.

So the next day, the FBI told Donnegan to preserve all material related to the Komi firing and sessions finalized his resignation letter. But Trump put it in his pocket and asked sessions to stay. He didn't give him the letter back or throw it away, put in his pocket. And this is something new. We didn't know about that.

I didn't know about this. But when Privis and Bannon learned that Trump didn't return the resignation letter to sessions, they were worried he would use it to influence the Department of Justice. It could function as a shot collar that the president could use any time he wanted. And Privis said the president had the DOJ by the throat as long as he had that letter. And during his trip to the Middle East the next day, that was nice when he was gone. I remember that. Hicks and Trump showed Hicks said that Trump showed the letter

to a group of senior advisors and asked what he should do. Previous asked about the letter later during the trip, but Trump lied and said the letter was back at the White House and he didn't have it. And it wasn't until May 30, it's a couple weeks later, that Trump gave the letter back to sessions with a note saying not accepted. No. Weird, right? That's a couple weeks later that Trump gave a letter back to sessions with a note saying not accepted

Weird right So onto subsection 2 on page 80 the evidence of Trump's assertion that Mueller was conflicted and this is the same shit We've heard over and over again Mueller first of all Mueller was begging to be the FBI director. He interviewed for the FBI director job That he used to work for a law firm that represented people affiliated with the president, which is true, and the whole golf club fee dispute. And Trump's advisors, including Prebus and Bannon, and McGann pushed back, saying those aren't really conflicts. Bannon went as far as telling Trump his conflicts were ridiculous, and none could justify precluding Mueller from serving a special counsel, even calling the golf fees ridiculous

and petty. Trump wanted to call Rosenstein about the conflicts with the law firm, but McGahn advised against it. Don't want to sit in an airplane on the tarmac with your attorney general. And he told Trump he wouldn't call Rosenstein for him either, warning that even discussing it with his personal attorney could look like he was trying to meddle

in the investigation. And knocking out Mueller would be another fact used to claim obstruction of justice. Another. Like how we said, another. And McGantle Trump that firing Komi wasn't his biggest exporter, but more so, his other contacts and calls and his ask regarding Flynn, which was widely reported on June 8th. And that's interesting because that's true also in the Mueller report.

And on June 8th, Komi testified again, but this time about the president asking to let Flynn go and lift the cloud, which led to a series of news reports that Trump obstructed justice. The following Monday, a friend of Trump and reporter from Newsmax Media named Chris Reddy, Christopher Reddy, met with Trump, who told me was seriously considering firing special counsel.

Mueller, and Reddy asked Priebus if he could tell everyone what the president said, and Priebus said, sure. So he went on TV and said Trump was definitely considering firing Mueller, which kicked off extensive coverage in the media that Trump wanted to fire the special counsel. Idiots. Yeah, he's like, can I tell everyone? Priebus is like, sure, bro.

Newsmax media is the name. Yeah. That sounds like porn news. I know. It does. Newsmax. Listen to the news Or else news to the max. I know, right? It's maximum news. So anyway, the White House was pissed that Chris Ruddy went out and told everybody this, and Trump told Sarah Sanders to tell the public that while he has every right to fire Mueller, he wasn't going to do it. And on June 13, Trump's personal lawyer contacted Mueller's office about conflicts of interest, seemingly ignoring McGann's advice, so not even your personal attorney can contact the Department of Justice you're going to look like you're meddling.

The same day, Rosenstein testified there was no good cause to terminate special counsel including for conflicts of interest and two days later Mueller called Rosenstein and told him about Trump's personal lawyers reaching out to him in case the DOJ wanted to take any action on that which they didn't. Alright that's the first section guys we'll be right back with the biggie. Trump ordering McGahn to Firemuller. Thanks to Crest for supporting our special coverage of the Mueller report. The Crest 3D Whiting Kit is the perfect way to whiten your teeth and make the most of

your smile, which is huge for your confidence. And I'm sure you know, everything that we eat and everything that we drink over the years takes a toll on how our teeth look. They can become stained. I know I drink up a ton of coffee, so I get coffee stains on my teeth, but I've found that the Crest White strips are the most effective way to whiteen my smile. They remove over 10 years of tough said stains from coffee wine or smoking, and it's the number one dentist recommended teeth whitening system as well. And we all know how important our time is to us. We're very concerned

about it here on the pod. I'm also an efficiency enthusiast, though some might call me lazy, but the crust whitening system is so convenient. There's no messy gels, there's no trays, so that you know that weirdness. It's applied in the comfort of your own home when you watch in the news, no slip grip for white strips that allow you to talk or drink water during treatment, and it includes an LED blue light that really targets the stains brought on by years of food and coffee, so the ingredients work faster and better than just the white strips alone. It's the same LED technology used by dentists by the way, without the price tag and the trip to the dentist's office. And it's

guaranteed to deliver 100% noticeably wider teeth as well, and if you're not satisfied you can get your money back. I didn't think anything could kick the decades of coffee stains off my teeth, but this new system with the LED light targeted those stains. My teeth are at least two shades wider. I had argued three shades, and that's really important to my confidence. So, order your first Crest 3D Whiting Strip Kit with patented blue light LED technology online today

and receive a special offer, $20 off. Go to CrestWhiteSmile.com and enter promo code AG. You get free shipping included and $20 off your first Crest 3D Whiting Strip Kit when you go to CrestWhiteSmile.com and use promo code AG at checkout. Alright guys, welcome back. We're on to page 84 and the press reporting Trump is being investigated for obstruction of justice and the big money Noamie's Trump directing McGann to fire Mueller.

And on the evening of June 14th, Washington Post published an article saying the special counsel was investigating whether the president had attempted to obstruct justice. And this was the first public report that the president himself was under investigation, June of 2017, by the special counsel's office. And cable news networks quickly picked up on it. And the Washington Post story stated that special counsel was interviewing intelligence community leaders, including coats and rogers, about what the president had asked them to do in response to Comi's March 2017 testimony, that the inquiry into obstruction marked a major turning point in the investigation.

And that while Trump had received private assurances from then FBI director James Comi, the member when he told him in January, he wasn't personally under investigation. Officials say that changed shortly after Comey's firing. And that evening at about 1030, the president called McGann on McGann's personal phone and asked, they spoke for about 15 minutes. McGann did not have a clear memory of the call, but thought they might have discussed the stories reporting that the president was under investigation. If only he was a Cohen and recorded everything. Right?

Or maybe he does and he just won't give them up. Ooh, yeah. That could be. I don't know. It'd be interesting. Probably not. He seems like a pretty straight-laced guy. Yeah.

True. McGahn. Yeah. Yeah. Like he seems like someone that would be in Kavanaugh's friend group, what was, but was actually like just a cool kid. Like, or like, I should say Bose actually like just a cool kid? Or like I should say I should say a good kid a good kid wanting to be a cool kid

Jerks. Yeah kind of put them to be that. He's should but he's busy in his tribute band. They'd be like okay Yeah in the wrong crowd maybe not the worst person. He's definitely rolling with the wrong people. Yeah. Totally wrong people. Bad job, bad job. So the next day, the day after that, after he had that 15 minute call with McGann, the Trump issued a series of tweets, acknowledging, I love that his tweets are in this,

also historical document, that word fucked and a bunch of tweets. The president issued a series of tweets acknowledging the existence of the obstruction investigation and criticizing it. document that word fucked and a bunch of tweets. The president issued a series of tweets acknowledging the existence of the obstruction investigation and criticizing it. Of course, he wrote, they made up a phony collusion with the Russians story, found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on their phony story. Nice. You are witnessing the single greatest witch hunt in American political history, led by some very bad and conflicted people. And crooked H destroys phones with hammer

bleached emails and had husband meet with AG days before she was cleared. And they talk about obstruction. Yes, they do. The next day, so that's just it. That's Mueller saying, here's some tweets. They're important. They show intent. We'll get to that in a second. But the next day on June 16th, the president wrote additional tweets criticizing the investigation. After seven months of investigations and committee hearings about my collusion with the Russians, nobody's been able to show any proof. Sad. And I am being investigated for firing the FBI director by the man who told me to fire the FBI director.

Which hunt? And on Saturday, the president called McGann and directed him to have the special counsel removed. So that's the statement that we've all been waiting for. On Saturday, June 17, 2017, the president called McGann and directed him to have the special counsel removed. McGann was at home and the president was at Camp David. He makes all of his worst decisions at Camp David. In interviews with the office, with Mueller's office, McGann recalled the president called him home, at home twice. And on both occasions, directed him to call Rosenstein and say that Mueller had conflicts office with Mueller's office, McGann recalled the president called him home at home twice, and on both occasions directed him to call Rosenstein and say that Mueller had conflicts that

precluded him from serving a special counsel. And on the first column, McGann recalled Trump said something like, you got to do this, you got to call Rod. Rod, hot Rod. Newsmax. So McGann said he told the president that he would see what he could do. How's he what I can do? Oh my god, weird, so weird. How do you even respond to that? So, McGahn was perturbed by the call, did not intend to act on the request. He and other advisers

believed the asserted conflicts were silly and not real. They had previously communicated, it says that, not real. And they previously communicated that particular view to Trump. Your shit's not real, bro. And again, also had made clear to the president that the White House Council's office should not be involved in any effort to press the issue of conflicts. Again, we was concerned about having any role in asking Attorney General to fire the special counsel because he had grown up in the Reagan era and wanted to be more like

Judge Robert Bork and not Saturday night massacre Bork. Okay, so McGahn considered the president's request to be an inflection point and he wanted to hit the brakes. That's what McGahn told Mueller. Good call, McGahn. You can testify to that when we get you into Congress finally. And when the president called McGahn a second time to follow up on the order to call the Department of Justice, McGahn recalled that the president was more direct saying something like call rod, tell rod, Mueller has conflicts and can't be special counsel. And McGahn recalled the president telling him, Mueller has to go.

Call me back when you do it. Why wouldn't he just do it himself? Consciousness of guilt, he knows it's wrong. Yeah, but they're obviously going to find what he did anyway. So fish freak. Yeah, maybe he thought he thought they wouldn't. Yeah, and if anything, this makes it look even worse. That's right.

That he's going around. It's just directly going to him. Yeah, he's like going all in on that yeah it gets better in section f with it with his at when he asked Lewandowski to uh... the but uh... anyway uh... when the president called mcgane uh... like i said he has been he said specifically more has to go and mcgane understood the president to be saying special counsel had to be removed by Rosenstein

to end the conversation with the president mcgane left the president with the saying special counsel had to be removed by Rosenstein. To end the conversation with the president, McGann left the president with the impression that McGann would call Rosenstein. McGann recalled he had already said no to the president's request and he was worn down so he just wanted to get off the phone. McGann recalled feeling trapped because he didn't want to follow the president's directive but did not know what he would say the next time the president called. So McGann decided he had to resign. He called his personal lawyer and called his chief of staff Annie Donaldson to tell her.

And then he drove to the office to pack his belongings and submit his resignation letter. He was ready to go. And Donaldson recalled that McGahn told her the president had called and demanded he contacted the Department of Justice and that the president wanted him to do something that McGahn did not want to do. And McGand told Donaldson the president had called at least twice, and one of the calls says, have you done it? And McGand did not tell Donaldson the specifics on the president's request because he was consciously trying not to involve her in the investigation. But Donaldson inferred that the president's directive was related to the Russia investigation.

Donaldson prepared to resign along with McGand. That's a real one right there. Yeah, that's a homie. Of McGand's, not of ours. Sorry, I should be more specific. She's one of McGand's real ones. Yeah, yeah. It's a day one homie.

It's so interesting to me that he would resign in the face of this, but won't just fucking testify. It's like, obviously you have a moral issue with this. Oh, but he doesn't want to blow it up. That's why he doesn't want to blow it up. Yeah, yeah, because then he's going to have a more, maybe not a moral issue with this. Oh, he doesn't want to blow it up. He doesn't want to blow it up. Yeah, because then he's going to have a more... Maybe not a moral issue then. Yeah, like he's like Mueller. Like Mueller's like, look, all this shit is serious and someone needs to know, but I don't want

to even be the one to tell you. Yeah, and honestly you always put yourself in jeopardy when you're testifying. Yeah. So he's probably... He was probably probably... He was probably going to deal with that shit. Yeah, he's probably just more along the lines up. Oh, Trump said it didn a deal with that shit. Yeah, he's probably just more long a lines up. Oh, Trump said I didn't have to. Sweet. Yeah, totally. But I will if you tell me I have to.

Yeah, I feel like he's kind of like that. I feel like he would if they made him for sure. And they're going to make him, I think. I think that's going to go through pretty quickly. Anyway, that evening, McGahn called Pribez and Bannon and told them that he intended to resign. And McGahn recalled that after speaking with his attorney and given the nature of the president's request, he did not share the details of the president's

request with other White House staff. He didn't tell anyone. And Priebus recalled that McGahn said that the president had asked him to do crazy shit. That's also in the historical documents. But he bought McGahn to not tell him the specifics because McGahn was trying to protect Priebus, moldy mold. So what he, you know, he didn't need to know and you don't need to know. And Privis and Bannon both urged McGahn not to quit. McGahn ultimately returned to work that Monday and remained in his position. He had not told the president directly he planned to resign and when they next saw each other, the president not asked him whether he had followed through about Rosenstein. And around the same time Chris Christie got a phone call with the president in which Trump asked him what he thought about the president firing the special counsel. Christie advised against doing so because it's

stupid. Because there was no substantive basis for the president to fire special counsel and because the president would lose support from Republicans in Congress if he did so. On to page 87, and this is the analysis of the three key components of obstruction of justice. First is the obstructive act, and Mueller says as with the president's firing of Komi, the attempt to remove special counsel would qualify as an obstructive act

if it would naturally obstruct the investigation and any grand jury proceeding that might flow from the inquiry. Even if the removal of the lead prosecutor would not prevent the investigation from continuing under a new appointee, a fact-finder would need to consider whether the act had the potential to delay further action in the investigation, chill the actions of any replacement special counsel or otherwise impede the investigation.

Authorized hold questions whether the president directed McGahn to have special counsel removed. After news organizations reported, in June 2017, the president ordered McGand to have the special counsel fired. The President publicly disputed the accounts and privately told McGand he simply wanted McGand to bring conflicts of interest to the Department of Justice's attention. Some of the President's liar, some of the President's specific language, said that McGand recalled from the calls is consistent with that explanation but substantial evidence, however, supports the conclusion that the President went further and in fact directed McGann to call Rosenstein to have the special counsel removed.

Substantial evidence exists. First McGann's clear recollection was the president directed him to tell Rosenstein not only the conflicts existed, but Mueller has to go. McGann is a credible witness with no motive to lie or exaggerate, given the position he held in White House. McGann spoke with the president twice and understood the directive the same way both times making it unlikely that he misheard or misinterpreted it. And in response to that request, McGahn decided to quit because he didn't want to participate

in events that he described as a kin to the Saturday night massacre. He called his lawyer, drove to the White House, packed up his office, prepared to submit a letter with his chief of staff, told Prebus that the president had asked him to do crazy shit. I can't believe that's in here. That's not me. That's not my you know normal AGA ad living. That's what it says. Told previs the president asked him to do crazy shit and inform previs and ban and that he was leaving. And those acts would be highly unusual, a highly unusual reaction to request to convey information to the farm. Yes, they would.

And then dramatic again. Exactly. Yeah, but he's actually just appropriately responding. Yes. And also in the days before calls to McGann, the president through his personal attorney had already brought the asserted conflicts to the attention of the Department of Justice. Accordingly, the president had no reason to have McGahn call Rosenstein that weekend to raise conflict issues.

It's already been raised. Very smart. And third, the President's sense of urgency and repeated requests. You've got to do this. You've got to call Rod, support McGahn's recollection. The President wanted the Department of Justice to take action to remove the special counsel.

Had the President instead sought only to have the Department of Justice reexamine conflicts to evaluate whether they posed an ethical bar. It would have been unnecessary to set the process in motion on a Saturday and make repeated calls to McGon. Yeah, because no one's working then. No, I was doing shit just him. Yeah, he's just up all night, add her all out, and it's freaking the fuck out. And he's like, what can I do? That would give me any sort of relief from any of this anxiety.

Yep. I'm going to call him again twice. And just have him to talk about the conflicts. Yeah. So finally, Trump discussed knocking out Mueller and raised conflicts of interest in May 23rd, 2017, call with McGahn, reflecting the president connected the conflicts to a plan to remove the special council. And in the days leading up to June 17, 2017, when he made the statement to get rid of, when he called McGahn to fire Mueller, the president made clear to previous in Bannon

who told Ruddy, Christopher Ruddy, that the president was considering terminating the special counsel. Also during that time period, the president reached out to Christie to get his thoughts on firing the special counsel. The evidence shows the president was not just seeking an examination of conflicts,

but was looking to use assertive conflicts as a pretext to terminate Mueller. So yes, there is an obstructive act. Sounds like a lie. Nexus 2 an official proceeding to satisfy the proceeding requirement, it would be necessary to establish a nexus between the president's act of seeking to terminate the special counsel and a pending or foreseeable grand jury proceeding. Substantial evidence indicates that by June 17th, the President knew his conduct was under investigation by a federal prosecutor who could present any evidence of federal crimes to

a grand jury. On May 23rd, McGann explicitly warned the President that his biggest exposure wasn't firing Komi, but other contacts calls and the, you know, the Flynn stuff. When he asked Komi to let go, he's down Flynn. My early June, it was widely reported in the media that federal prosecutors had issued grand jury subpoenas in the Flynn inquiry, and the special counsel had taken over the Flynn investigation.

So on June 19th, the special counsel's office informed the White House investigators would be interviewing intelligence agency officials who allegedly had been asked by the president to push back against the Russian investigation. And on June 14th, news outlets began reporting that the president was himself being investigated for obstruction of justice based on widespread reporting. And the president knew that such an investigation could include his request for Komi's loyalty, his request to let the fling thing go.

His outreach to Coats and Rogers and his termination of Komi and loyalty, his request to let the flimpingo. His outreach to Coats and Rogers and his termination of Komi and statement to the Russian Foreign Minister that he had relieved great pressure related to Russia. And in June 16, 2017, the day before he directed McGand to have the special counsel removed the president publicly acknowledged that his conduct was under investigation. So this sounds to me like, yes, there's an access to an official proceeding. Or an impending one. Yeah, the impending grand jury.

In fact, you know, he tweeted, I am being investigated for firing the FBI director by the man who told me to fire the FBI director. So interesting. He knew. So he knew he was being investigated. And so it's connected. And then finally, intent. He, substantial evidence indicates the president's attempts to remove special counsel were linked to the special counsel's oversight of investigations that involved the president's conduct, and most immediately to reports that the president

was being investigated for potential obstruction of justice. And before the president fired Komi, the president considered it critically important that he was not under investigation and the public not erroneously think he was being investigated as described in volume two section two part D. Advisors perceived the president while he was drafting the Komi termination letter to be more concerned than anything about getting out that he was not under investigation. And when the president learned of the appointment

of special counsel, he expressed further concern about the investigation saying, this is the end of my presidency. I'm fucked. He also faulted sessions for recusing saying you were supposed to protect me. So that's bad for him too. Bad look. You're a great scene in the movie though. You were supposed to protect me.

I trusted you. Yeah, I trusted you, babe. Blah blah, Kennedy. Blah blah. Blah blah, holder. Blah blah. And then on June 14th, when the Washington Post reported special counsel was investigating the president for obstruction, the president was facing what he had wanted to avoid a criminal

investigation in his own contact. And he was the subject of it and that it got a lot of media attention. And the evidence indicates the news of the obstruction investigation prompted the call to McGahn to seek to have special counsel removed. And by mid-June, Department of Justice had already cleared the special counsel's service. And the president's advisers and told him that the claimed conflict of interests were silly

and did not provide a basis for the removal of special counsel. On June 13th, the acting attorney general testified before Congress that no good cause for removing the special counsel existed, and the president dictated a press statement to Sarah Sanders saying he had no intention of firing the special counsel. But the next day, the media reported the president was under investigation for obstruction of justice, and the special counsel was interviewing witnesses about events related to possible obstruction. So that spurred the president to write to his tweets, you know, his tweet storm about special counsel.

And the president called McGann at home that night and called him on Saturday from Camp David. The evidence accordingly indicates that news on the news that an obstruction of investigation had been opened is what led the president to call McGann to have the special counsel terminated. It must be all of the ghosts floating around Camp David of past shitty presidents that are just really sitting on a shoulder that night Totally just telling him to do it Do it

And finally he says Mueller says there is evidence that the president knew that he should not have made those calls to McGann The president made the calls to McGann after McGann had specifically told the president the White House Council's office And McGann could not be involved in pressing conflicts claims and that the president should consult with his personal counsel If he wanted to raise those conflicts with which he did. And instead of relying on his personal counsel to submit the conflict claims, the President sought to use his official powers to remove special counsel. And after the media reported the President's actions, he denied it.

He denied he ever ordered McGand to have a molar fired. It made repeated efforts to have McGand deny the story as discussed in volume two section, to I, which we aren't at yet. And those details are contrary to the evidence and suggest the president's awareness that the direction to McGann would be seen as improper. So he knew. So he had intent substantial. So this is the big one. It was my favorite section so far.

It's good, right? And we'll be right back with the quick section F and Trump's big idea to limit the Mueller investigation. Hey, it's AG. Hiring used to be a huge hassle because there's a million job sites. You have to sift through stacks and stacks of resumes. You have to go through review processes, trying to figure out what your criteria are, finding,

and you know, manually seeing who meets your criteria. And there's a lot of confusing websites out there. But today, hiring is simple. And you just have to go to one place to get it all done and that's Cyparkruder.com slash AG. Cyparkruder is really thorough. It sends your job to over a hundred of the web's leading job boards but they don't stop there, right? They have a very accurate and a powerful matching technology and I love it because they scan thousands of resumes for you so you don't have to do it and

they find people with the exact right qualifications you're looking for and they have the experience that you need and then they invite them to apply for your job and we just hired another producer and by use Zipple Cruder and it was absolutely wonderful it saved me so much time and that's so important to me and it's so effective that four out of five employers who post on Zipple Cruder get a quality candidate through the site within the first 24 hours. It's really amazing. And right now our listeners can try Zip Recreator for free at this exclusive web address, ziprecreator.com slash AG.

That's ziprecreator.com slash AG. Zip Recreator.com slash AG. Zip Recreator, the smartest way to hire. Alright, on to part F, page 90, and this is about Trump's ever-tucker tale, the Mueller probe. And the last section was probably the juiciest, but this is the funniest, I think. This is the comedy of volume 2. It actually is really hilarious.

I feel like Trump was probably super proud of himself when he thought of this dumbass idea. He's like, oh, guess what? I've got this great idea. And I could just see him like sitting on the toilet or something like, oh, this what? I've got this great idea. And I could just see him like sitting on the toilet or something like, oh, I'm just going to be the best. So basically, two days after he told McGahn to fire Mueller, and I love that Mueller states that as a fact.

He just opens up two days after the president directed McGahn to fire me. He called private citizen and former campaign chair Corey Lewandowski to the Oval Office and asked him to deliver a message to Jeff Sessions to limit the Mueller investigation to future elections and not the 2016 election. This is one of my favorite new bits of information when this came out. It's so great, right? And Trump followed up with Lewandowski like a month later and Lewandowski had set a meeting with Sessions but Sessions canceled it and with Lewandowski like a month later and Lewandowski had set a meeting with sessions

But sessions canceled it and then Lewandowski left the country for a while but told Trump oh, I got you I'll deliver your message. It'll be delivered then he ran into Rick Dearborn and said hey, we do this Dearborn who was a White House aide at the time. He asked him to deliver the message But Dearborn wasn't comfortable with that and he told Lewandowski he did deliver the message even though he never did. That's really funny. Oh yeah, I got you bro. So Dearborn, you know, as we know recently subpoenaed Lewandowski and Dearborn, you know, brought from the House Judiciary Committee to in there an impeachment inquiry. That's about this. I just think it's so funny. Lewandowski said, oh yeah, I'll testify. There's no collusion, no obstruction. But yeah, you took part in it. So good luck with that.

Yeah, he thinks that he's off the hook because he didn't do anything. But it is kind of doing something. If you don't tell someone, that that's what he said also, probably. Yeah, I mean, he's not in trouble. You know, he's not to a criminal degree, but that is at least as far as I see him in my eyes. Yeah, he's definitely on the hook. Not doing something, he's doing something.

And a few days later, after publicly criticizing sessions in a New York Times interview, remember that crazy interview? Trump ordered Pribus to demand Sessions resignation. Pribus said, bad idea, you'll never get a new AG confirmed, but Trump said he would make a recess appointment to replace Sessions. And Pribus called McGahn for advice. What do I do about this one? And he told him not to do it,

and they should consult their private counsel with whom they have attorney client privilege. And it's not mentioned here, but we know that Bannon and Pribus and McGahn all have the same lawyer named Burke, William Burke. And Pribus and McGahn also discussed resigning rather than carrying out Trump's order to get rid of sessions. So Trump followed up with Pribus asking if he got sessions resignation letter. Pribus purposefully lied to Trump and said he was working on it, but he called

him later and said firing him was a mistake and Trump agreed to hold off. And then he tweeted should about him all weekend, but agreed not to fire them. So real quick, the obstructive act here is the president's effort to send sessions a message through Lewandowski would qualify as an obstructive act if it would naturally obstruct an investigation or any grand jury proceeding. The president sought to have sessions announced that the president should have a special prosecutor and that sessions was going to meet with the special prosecutor to explain this very unfair and that it was very unfair and let the special counsel move forward with the investigation election meddling for future elections so that nothing can happen in future elections.

In the president wanted sessions to disregard his recusal, which he had followed from a formal DOJ ethics review. And sessions declared that he knew for a fact that there was no Russians involved with the campaign because he was there. And the president further directed the sessions should explain that the president should not be subject to an investigation because he hasn't done anything wrong.

Taken together, the president's directives indicate that sessions was being instructed to tell the Special Counsel to end the existing investigation into the President with the Special Counsel being permitted to move forward with investigations in election meddling and future elections. So, yep. Yeah, chick.

And then Nexus 2, an official proceeding, is described above by the time the President's initial one-on-one meeting with Lewandowski, the existence of a grand jury investigation supervised by special counsel was public knowledge. So Matt, and then intent, substantial evidence indicates the President's efforts to have sessions limit the scope of special counsel's investigation into future elections was intended to prevent the investigation, investigative scrutiny in the president's 2016 campaign conduct, substantial evidence.

Check, check, check. Yeah, he's not just like, I feel like you're going to need this more later. Yeah. It is. Don't worry about me now. Nothing fishy here at all. Nothing to see here. And Mueller says the timing and circumstances of the president's actions support the conclusion

that he sought the result to curtail the investigation and the president's initial direction that session should limit the special counsel's investigation came just two days after he ordered McGand to have special counsel fired which is itself which itself followed public reports that the president was personally under investigation for obstruction of justice the sequence of those events raises an inner an inference that after seeking to terminate special counsel, the president sought to exclude his and his campaign conduct from the investigation scope. And the president raised that matter with Lewandowski.

Again, on July 19, it's just two days after emails and information about the June 9th, 2016 meeting between Russians and senior campaign officials had publicly been disclosed, generating substantial media coverage and investigative interest. And the manner in which the President acted provides additional evidence of his intent, rather than rely on office channels, the President met with Lewandowski alone in the Oval Office, and the President selected a loyal DVOT outside of the White House to deliver the message, supporting an inference that he was working outside White House channels, including McGann, who had previously resisted contacting the Department of Justice

about the Special Counsel. So that's an interesting thought there. And the President also did not contact the Acting Attorney General who had just testified publicly that there was no cause to remove Mueller. Instead, the President tried to use sessions to restrict and redirect the Special Counsel's investigation when sessions were recused and could not properly take any action on it. So then in July events provide further evidence of the president's intent. So there's even more if you didn't have enough already. And the president followed up with Lewandowski

in a separate one-on-one meeting. One month after his first dictated, he first dictated the message for sessions, demonstrating he still sought to pursue the request. And just hours after Lewandowski assured the president that the message would soon be delivered, the president gave an unplanned interview to the New York Times, which he publicly attacked sessions, and raised questions about his job security. And four days later, on July 22, the president directed pre-bist to obtain session's resignation. That evidence could raise inference that the president wanted sessions to realize that his job might be on the line, as he evaluated whether to comply with the president's direction

that sessions publicly announced that, notwithstanding his recusal, he was going to confine the special counsel's investigation just to future elections, not his. So that is my two favorite sections so far. Yeah, agreed. This is amazing. And I hope this is where the house takes it. And all of this comes out again to the public in these testimonies. Yeah, I think it will. And we'll see it soon. We should probably I would be banking on their testimony. I think we'll get up by the end of the year. I hope so. Maybe after Christmas break. Yeah. I mean, I don't know what I would love to be a fly on the wall

and hear what they're thinking timeline-wise strategically. Because obviously, this is strategic, how they're rolling this out right now. Yeah, and we do have to wait for the courts to come back. And they have asked the court to speed it up. And the DOJ has asked the court to slow it down. Actually, I think those are the tax documents and the Deutsche Bank Capital One.

There's so many investigations right now. It's hard to know, which is hard to keep, but join us next time. We're going to go over sections G and H where Trump attempted to cover up the June 2016 Trump Tower meeting, the June 9th, I believe, and his additional efforts to get sessions to unrecuse. There's more. That's going to be pages 98 to 113 if you want to read ahead. Any final thoughts?

Yeah, I want to get a hashtag team volume 2 t-shirts. I think that could be really cool. You got some volume 1 peeps out there, and do they exist? Yeah, I think Mueller's a volume 1 guy. Oh, that makes sense, see? I'm a volume 2. Yeah, Komi's probably volume, well, volume he's in, I think Mueller's a volume one guy. Oh, that makes sense, see? I'm a volume two. Yeah, and Komi's probably volume, well, volume he's in, probably.

And I think everyone has the most Komi. I think it was Trump cast that sort you, like the sorting hat puts you in a team one or two. Oh, that's so cool. They have a whole thing, yeah. Yeah, they talk about whether you have a volume, a team one or team one or two. Yeah, yeah.

Well, one of them is definitely more of a winning team than the other, so. Ha, ha, ha. Nice. Go for two. I team volume two. Yeah, yeah. Well, one of them is definitely more of a winning team than the other, so. Yeah. Nice. Go for two. I like volume two. That's my thing. I just like checking boxes of crimes.

Like, oh, intent, obstructive act, Nexus two, a proceeding, next, and then you get to check all the boxes and see where he's at. So. Yeah, thank you Nexus. Yeah. You like an Ariana Grande song. And I thank you, Mueller, for putting it so plainly. Yeah, it's pretty plain. It I thank you, Mueller, for putting it so plainly.

Yeah, it's pretty plain. It's pretty clear, I think. So appreciate that. Good work product. High five. All right, that's all we have. So join us next time. I am your host, A.G. I'm Benjolissa Johnson.

I'm Benjordan Coburn. And this is Mueller She wrote. Mala Shiro is produced and engineered by AG with editing and logo designed by Jolissa Johnson. Our marketing consultant and social media manager is Sarah Lee Steiner and our subscriber and communications director is Jordan Coburn. Fact checking and research by AG and research assistants by Jolissa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Our merchandising managers are Sarah Lee Steiner and Sarah Hershberger Valencia. Our web design and branding are by JoL Leader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is mullershierote.com. For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country.

And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave. But the Magga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the House, thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. In the chaotic spectacle we've already seen, shows us just how far they will go to seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So, the official podcast of the persistence is back with season four.

There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself. We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country. And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it, with messaging and communications expert, co-founder of Way Way to Win and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action and hope.

I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez-Ancona. And this is How We win.