Jack - Nostalgic For The Witch Hunt Days (feat. Charlotte Clymer)

Episode Date: March 23, 2020

This week on MSW, we've got Charlotte Clymer of the Human Rights Campaign. Our patrons are keeping us going in these uncertain times - if you can become on, do so at patreon.com/muellershewrote. Thank you!

Hey, it's Kimberly Host of The Start Me Up Podcast. If you like your politics with some loose talk and salty language, you're going to love my show. I interview the coolest people like Mary Trump, Kathy Griffin, and DNC Chair Jamie Harrison. The Start Me Up Podcast has an easy-going, casual style and a strong emphasis on left-leaning politics. We also have frank discussions about sex

and more than a few spirited rants. Just visit patreon.com slash start me up or wherever you get your podcasts and start listening today. Thanks to Caliper CBD for supporting Mollershoe Road. Caliper is the first to provide consistent, convenient and precise CBD in a water-soluble powder. Unlike CBD oils, Caliper CBD powder is completely tasteless and mixes easily in any food or drink. Get 20% off your first order when you use promo code AG at trycaliper.com slash AG. And thanks to Worthy for supporting Muller She Wrote, Worthy believes you deserve an

easier way to sell your valuable jewelry. Go to Worthy.com slash AG to get started. That's Worthy.com slash AG. This is Jack Bryan, the co-writer and director of Active Measures, and you are listening to Mother Shiro, lucky you. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what the opposition is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time, a two,

in that campaign, and I didn't have, and I have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for I have nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother, then he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening,

I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist.

Hello, and welcome to Mollershi Road profession I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to Mollershi Road. I'm your host A.G. and because of social distancing and a shelter in place order in California, I am alone in the studio today. But we will be hearing from Jordan later in the show. She's going to deliver her hot note, which is very important. You want to stick around for that. As I said, California is in shelter in place mode.

So we're doing our part and staying home. We're doing our part for the health care workers out there and for the population at large. For the latest coronavirus news, please check out our sister podcast, The Daily Beans, which comes out first thing Monday morning, or tonight, if you're a patron. And Jordan will be recording a segment about coronavirus and Russian disinformation today on the show and hot notes.

So there'll be a little news there. And we have a lot of news today. And I have an interview I got to talk to Charlotte Climber. So that'll be the interview today. She's an activist, a writer, an advocate, an army vet, just an absolutely just treasure gem of a human being. I absolutely love her. So you'll definitely want to stick around for that.

We do have a lot of news to get to today, but before we do that, let's get some corrections out of the way. Okay, so from Angela Rush, she says, I'd like to start letting you, by letting you ladies know I truly believe, you all have provided an integral part of our political news for this shitty presidency. I sincerely thank you all. You're welcome, Angela. When you are all pushing locally on restaurants, I get it. I do.

Local and small businesses are very important. But can you also think of the people that have their livelihoods dependent on if a person gets a fast food burger? There are hundreds of people locally in one company, Bay Area NLA, that make the buns for Carl's Jr. Jack in the box and in and out among others. They are considered to be essential workers to keep these stores open. My husband is one of them and his job is in danger. So thank you very much, Angela, for pointing that out, please consider how many people work behind the scenes and in the drive-throughs in these major chains as well.

It's not just about, you know, because the CEO makes a zillion dollars that we don't need to support the supply chain for all these places and, you know, spread it out, spread out the love. So, thank you very much for that correction. I do appreciate it. From Sarah Schlagenhoff, she says, I love your show. It's a very important correction regarding asthma

as a risk condition for coronavirus. asthma is absolutely a risk condition, especially because of the majority of treatments for chronic asthma are the type of steroids that reduce immune system function. I have aosinophilic asthma. I take two different steroids daily just to breathe, and I wanted to mention this since it's very important for high-risk groups to be hyper aware for their own safety.

Thank you. So thank you, Sarah. From Brian Shirley and also Stephen Harris Scott. I love your show. Quick correction. The Spanish flu did not start in Spain. Spain was the only country that suffered from the flu that didn't actively hide it from its people.

So, early media accounts of the flu came from Spain, and that's how it got its name. Scientists and historians really don't know what country the 1918 flu started in. The first recorded case was in a military base in Kansas, so I will always call it the 1918 flu. Calling it the flu of 1918, calling the flu of 1918 the Spanish flu is a little unfair because it wasn't for Spain, if it wasn't for Spain's honesty in fighting the epidemic, many more people probably would have died from that flu.

So thank you for that information, good to know, and I'm so, you know, as soon as, because I don't know about y'all, but every once in a while when I talk about how these people need to stop calling it the Wuhan virus or the Chinese virus, they always pop up and say, what about the Spanish flu? And what about the bird flu?

And what about the Asian flu of 1950? So thank you for that information. I think it will all be better armed to deal with these racist Trump supporters who really want to call it the Asian flu when they start doing that on social media as they already have From Diana F you three are lifesavers. Thank you so much for your daily dose of all things. Newsy normal and zany you're welcome The correction is if for some reason there's no election

I think you said recently that all the elders term would end with no elected president and that speaker Pelosi would assume the presidency Though reassuring. I don't think that is correct, because Pelosi's term also ends in January. All the reps terms end in January, and if so, who's next? I looked into this, I believe it's the pro-tem president of the Senate, which would be Leahy, because the Senate retains two-thirds of its serving members every two years, and I don't believe Leahy is up for her election this year. So that's who it would be. Although somebody, she says, my beans are on Angus King, most senior serving senator.

But I do think that in the presidential succession and the constitution, after the Speaker of the House, it's President Pro Tem, assuming that we don't have a speaker of the house because every, you know, they're all of their terms will end, then, but then again, what do you do if there's no election and you can't just get rid of the entire house of representatives, right? So maybe there's some sort of provision in a constitution that says they get to stay and therefore it would be Nancy Pelosi, but maybe we'll see, maybe we'll learn, maybe we'll find out. And then she says, lastly, maybe we all emerge better from this nightmare for having experienced

it. So those are corrections. If you have any corrections for us, head to mullershierote.com. Click contact, select corrections, and build us a complement sandwich. We'll get it right eventually. Now it is time for this week's news. So let's jump in with just the facts. All right, so the news this week, Andrew Higgins reports

in the New York Times that pretty much exactly what we predicted Putin was doing with his government security council shake up last January by changing the rules. At last Monday, Russia's highest court approved constitutional changes that have paved the way for Putin to smash term limits and stay in power until 2036. In a 52-page ruling, the court removed one of the last obstacles that it would have prevented Putin from being president for life, and the final hurdle will be a national referendum,

scheduled for April 22nd, which is really just a rubber stamp because of the Kremlin's control on the media and the vote coupled with the ban on public protests. So pretty much just like all their elections, total sham. The coronavirus could delay the referendum, but Russia has clearly been under reporting their numbers, and they don't exactly have a good track record for protecting their population. Chernobyl comes to mind, and as well as this last nuclear explosion that we still haven't heard about, much about other than that it was like a mobile boat reactor that exploded and fallout stations were taken offline that were detecting the radiation in the air. So they don't really have a super great track record for,

you know, making public health problems known to their citizens. They've only reported 93 cases of COVID-19. Putin has already been in power for 20 years there, either as president or prime minister, and was due to step down in 2024, but the term limits were swept aside this week by lawmakers who voted to reset the clock to zero when Putin's term runs out, allowing him to run

for two more six-year terms. So, there we go. We put beans on it, beans came true. Sorry to say, I hate when those kinds of beans come true, but they do. And we have some Michael Cohen news, blast from the past, from Adam Klassfeld, from Tuesday of this week. Cohen's attorney is asking his

sentencing judge to switch his client to House arrest to protect him from the coronavirus in the quote absence of presidential leadership. Basically using Trump's incompetence to see if he can leave jail and be on house arrest. Cohen's attorney attached an exhibit to the letter, which you as a follow-up on my March 9th letter and Chief Judge Colleen McMahon's directive addressed to the court protocols be followed in the Southern District as consequences of the coronavirus epidemic. This letter seeks to focus my pending application

on a sentence modification as a consequence of the Bureau of Prisons being demonstrably incapable of safeguarding and treating BOP, Bureau of Prisons being demonstrably incapable of safeguarding and treating B.O.P. Bureau of Prisons inmates who are obliged to live in close quarters and add an inherent risk of catching coronavirus. Turning to the merits of the pending rule 35 application, I urge the court to consider my client's exposure to the coronavirus and grant rule 35 motion to the extent of modifying the previously imposed 36-month sentence to be served on-home confinement. I attached some thoughtful commentary from the blog sentencing law and policy in the absence of presidential leadership. Judges should act thoughtfully and decisively. President

Trump apparently does not subscribe to President Harry Truman's observation. The buck stops here. Very, very truly yours. Roger Bennett, Adler, Attorney for Defendant, Michael D. Cohen. So I think that's a little colorful there. Doesn't he? Apparently, Trump doesn't subscribe to Harry Truman's observation. The buck stops here. Very, very clever, very colorful, interesting for a court document. And check this out. Do you all remember a day that will live in Infamy, November 8, 2018? That was the last day Fox News tweeted from their account at Fox News, having normally tweeted about 250 times per day. Well, the day before the Fox News Twitter account went dark, we had

noted that Rupert Murdoch was on the hill. Capital Hill met with Mitch McConnell. We had posited. There was something weird going on. There was some kind of, like maybe Fox was in some sort of legal jeopardy or they wanted some sort of gag order. But most said they stopped tweeting because Tucker Carlson was boycotting Twitter because

people were being mean to him. Well, after 14 months of silence, Fox News tweeted this week on March 18th, saying, keep up with all the latest COVID-19 news, including tips on keeping safe and stories of survival, struggle, and inspiration. And watch Fox News Channel on television or online. No authentication required. They continue to tweet all about coronavirus.

We have no idea what other than the outbreak prompted them They continue to tweet all about coronavirus. We have no idea what other than the outbreak prompted them to break their silence. Nor do we have any clarity on why they went dark in the first place. Either it was because of the boycott, which is sort of what everyone's saying, what Fox News wants us to say, wants us to think, or maybe they had been shut down, and maybe they're back under some kind of policy that allows them to tweet during a national emergency as a quote-unquote news organization. And as we know, Trump declared a national emergency on March 13th.

If we learn anything, we will let you know about why they're all of a sudden tweeting again with little to no fanfare. And the Department of Justice has sent a letter to Congress asking them to suspend some aspects of due process. I have a full interview with the host of the on topic podcast and former federal prosecutor Renato Marriotti about what the Department of Justice is asking for, the implications of what they're asking for,

and the likelihood that Barr will get what he's asking for. And all of that takes place on our sister podcast, The Daily Beans. It comes out first thing Monday morning or this evening Sunday evening for premium Patreon subscribers. They're asking for hearings to take place, basically court hearings to take place over teleconference, but without the defendant's permission. That's very bad. They're asking to stop habeas corpus and they want to block all asylum seekers with COVID-19 from seeking asylum in the United States, which means they would need to test everyone who was seeking asylum. And there are other requests, but this would have to get past Democrats in the house. So tune in to the daily Beans for an in-depth interview on these

requests from the Department of Justice, Bill Barr's Department of Justice, and shout out to Betsy Woodruff Swan at Politico for getting the scoop. Incredible reporting. Check out that story. We'll be right back after this quick word with hot notes, including a coronavirus Russian disinformation campaign, and that's gonna, that's gonna be a story from Jordan, and you'll definitely want to hear that. So stay with us. We'll be right back. Hey everybody, it's AG, and that's going to be a story from Jordan and you'll definitely want to hear that. So stay with us. We'll be right back. Hey everybody, it's A.G. and today's episode of Mullershey Road is brought to you by Caliper. Countless products promise to promote wellness, drastic diets, extreme fitness routines over

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I miss you all very much and this sucks, but it's okay. We're going to get through it, but this is the first of many days that we're probably going to be recording remotely following the rules. I'll get right into it. My hot note is a Russia-centric hot note because don't forget about those guys, you know, that they're there capitalizing off of this shit. So here we go. EU officials are warning that pro-Cremlin propaganda wings are trying to so panic and fear.

In the population, is it relates to coronavirus by spreading disinformation. The EU's external action service is a group that research is in combat to disinformation on the web, and they said that since January 22nd, they've recorded around 80 instances of the peddling of disinformation by pro-cremlin media. This is a direct quote. The overarching aim of Cremlin disinformation is to aggravate the public health crisis in Western countries, specifically by undermining public trust and national health care systems, thus preventing an effective response to the outbreak. That's according to the report. So, essentially what they're doing is amplifying the

contradictory messages that are popping up in regards to the virus to try and and just crazy theories that are organically popping up to try to amplify distrust in the Western institutions that are at the helm of the response to this virus in those regions. So it's not that they're necessarily creating the crazy conspiracy theories themselves so much as they're picking up on them and then amplifying them and just using what other people already started basically, which is interesting because it's really similar to new reporting on how they're interfering in our elections in 2020. It's not even that they're necessarily creating so many of those fake accounts for the purpose of generating propaganda themselves.

It's that they're creating accounts and creating algorithms to amplify the messages that people are already putting out on their own. So just weaponizing people against each other basically, which is, you know, what they're a pro at, the disinformation has targeted international audiences in all languages, English, Italian, Spanish, Arabic, as well as Russian and other languages. There's been a huge US State Department report from last month that said thousands of Russian linked social media accounts on Facebook and Twitter. We're also spreading disinformation about the coronavirus, so this is an effort that is

going noticed by multiple governments, and it's good that it's going noticed. I would imagine there, particularly on watch during a time like this, but then again resources are very thin. Right now, as everyone's trying to deal with this, this virus, but Facebook and Twitter said that the State Department didn't provide evidence that would allow the companies to investigate and possibly shut down the accounts. I don't know exactly how you can issue a US State Department report and have that not count as evidence. I don't know if what they need is specific names of the accounts or what missing piece it is that they somehow weren't able to provide Facebook and Twitter, but unfortunately, maybe this is just

another example of them standing by the wayside, and really they could be doing a lot to stop this. Because this is not a time to like fuck around with disinformation, obviously. We're already seeing the consequences of that, people that don't believe that this is real, and then that, you know, it's a witch hunt, and following words that came out of Trump's mouth weeks ago that they're still holding on to. I don't know if they're not watching Fox News currently or something, if they're only nostalgic for the good times with the witch hunt times, but Trump is now even on board with at least some of the messaging in terms of staying at home and not gathering in large groups and

everything. So I don't know how that's still perpetuating itself, but my point is if there was more cohesive messaging and people were being held accountable for non-cohesive messaging that was being amplified, then maybe we wouldn't have so many people going out there making this quarantine less effective and lasting a longer amount of time than maybe it really needs to. But who knows, how not a scientist? I don't know. I'm just sitting in my living room alone with sweaty hands, giving this hot note, anxious and scared.

I hope you all are doing great. I love you. Everything will get better and stay strong and we'll be back together hopefully soon and rather than later. Okay, thanks. All right, thank you, Jordan. Thank you for sending us that update and that story.

It's kind of harrowing there. But as the week goes on, we will be recording conversationally as we figure out the tech, so bear with us. My hot note today is about a story from last week about the Concord Management case. If you'll remember, over the past year at least, we've been bringing you updates on the Mueller prosecution

against if Gany Progojion and his company's Concord Management and Concord Catering, and both, you know, Concord Management ran the Internet Research Agency, known as the IRA, in St. Petersburg during the hack of the 2016 election. They were trolling. It was all laid out in volume one of the Mueller report. And Concord Management was the only Russian entity or individual indicted that hired American lawyers and appeared in court. It became apparent pretty quickly that they

were just trolling the courts and using them to get their hands on our investigative sources and methods through the process of discovery. So they could send that information off to the Kremlin. And at one point, they did get some documents from discovery, used those to create fraudulent, falsified documents, and then claimed they had hacked Mueller, the Mueller investigation, a story that went nowhere, by the way. We actually, I think, brought it up and laughed.

The judge, Judge Friedrich, even scolded the American lawyers for Concord Management for their controversial and unconventional briefings in motions, telling them to knock it off. Quote, knock it off, unquote, as they were using the F-bomb, I can say fuck, and quoting movies like Animal House and even cartoons like Sylvester and Tweety Bird, which I would normally be 100% behind, but not in court filings. So after all that, and after Russia asking for all US intelligence investigative sources and methods going back to World War II, it had appeared that the prosecutors had had enough and just asked the judge to dismiss the case, which he did the same day they filed the motion to dismiss the case. I had spoken to Glenn Kirschner because I was like, what? Kirschner is a 30-year veteran at the DC-US Attorney's Office who agreed with me that this

seemed like it was the Mueller prosecution team putting their foot down to stop the trolling of the courts. And that appeared to be the end of that. However, this week, both Adam Schiff and Jerry Nadler have penned letters to the Department of Justice asking for clarification on the decision to shut down this case and question the motives of Bill Barr in the Justice Department in closing down this case. And then our friend Barb McQuade, former US Attorney, she's been on the show a few times, wrote a piece for just security about the case, saying, quote, another curious filing by the Department of Justice should not be lost amid news about COVID-19, and yet another reversal in a case initiated

by Special Counsel Robert Mueller. DOJ filed a motion to dismiss charges against two Russian businesses. Unquote. So she mentions the previous filings by the department to seek more lenient sentences for Flynn and Stone, both associates of Trump. And now this filing to dismiss the charges against Concord Management and Concord Catering. The filing says the charges should be dismissed for two reasons.

This is from the Department of Justice. The DOJ gives two reasons for this. One is the conduct of Concord Management. Saying, quote, Concord has demonstrated its intent to reap the benefits of the court's jurisdiction while positioning itself to evade any real obligations or responsibility. Unquote. And the second reason the Department of Justice gave

was that the prosecution will compromise national security information. And then the motion refers to a change in the balance of the government's proof due to a classification determination. And the motion includes a classified addendum, presumably telling the court what that classification was. Both of those were reasons we posited that this was a good idea to shut it down. However, Barb McQuade and her infinite genius has made an incredibly great point that we should consider. Because she and others are arguing that asserting these reasons at this stage of the prosecution

does seem suspect to anyone who has prosecuted a national security case before. She says it's likely the indictments by Mueller were a name and shame situation intended to expose wrongdoing, we talk about speaking indictments, without ever expecting any of the defendants to appear in court, because we don't have an extradition treaty with Russia, they're not going to appear. But it's a rule that prosecutors cannot file indictments unless they believe they have sufficient evidence to obtain and maintain a conviction in open court, even if that day

would likely never come. They have to be able to do it. And that decision requires a process known as prudential search in which prosecutors ask intelligence agencies for any material that must be produced to the defense in discovery or that may become public at trial. And because it could become public and they have to give it to the defense in discovery, the material is vetted and decisions are then made. Back then, before indictments and charges are brought, as to whether the prosecution outweighs any potential disclosures of intelligence that could undermine national security.

So as we know, Mueller is a by-the-book sort of fellow, and I think we could safely assume he used this method to determine whether to bring charges and did so knowing the material could come out in discovery. So it would stand a reason that if the special council thought that any of this would jeopardize national security, if it came out in open court, Mueller would not have brought charges. Of course, Mueller may have vetted the relevant material

and brought charges without knowing the Russians would be asking for everything investigative sources and methods going back to World War II. But at that point, you just say, no, it's irrelevant to this case, and allow the judge to make that determination in court and continue with the prosecution, which is likely what was happening.

McQuade, Bar McQuade says, taking into account that Trump gave bar unprecedented authority to make all decisions relating to classified information as part of his review of the Mueller investigation, his decision can only be met with suspicion. And we have to wonder, that's what Barb says. I say we have to wonder what information Barr did not want getting out in open court, regardless of concord Management's lawyers' ridiculous requests for discovery beyond what Mueller had determined to be relevant, because none of that would have been allowed anyway. She closes her piece saying, bar is famously said that he is not concerned about his reputation because

quote, everyone dies. He is entitled to hold nihilistic views about himself, but he has a higher duty to the department, he leads. So thank you to Barb McQuade for pointing out that very important piece there that, you know, had Muller, which I'm sure he did, consider that any of this information had it gotten out, would be pose a national security risk. He wouldn't have been a broad charges. Especially against a Russian who would never show up and we don't have an extradition treaty with in the first place. And so then, now, it does, and again, with Jerry Nadler's letter and Adam Schiffs letter,

it does carry a little bit of suspicion at that point. So thank you for that information. That was a really great piece if you get a chance to read it. It's by Barb McQuade, so check it out. And with that, it is time for sabotage. All right, this week for sabotage, Gilein Maxwell has poked her head up about a hiding to file a lawsuit against the estate of Jeffrey Epstein this week,

seeking monetary compensation for her legal fees and the personal security she's had to hire because of death threats she's received. In the lawsuit, she claims she had nothing to do with the sex trafficking operation of Jeffrey Epstein and feels she should be compensated for having to deal with all the lawsuits from Epstein's victims, claiming she orchestrated the trafficking of girls for Epstein. It's disgusting that she is seeking money to drain money from the estate that should be going to compensate Jeffrey Epstein's victims, but she's filed the suit nonetheless, and she filed it in the British Virgin Islands, and I don't know anything about their legal system to put beans on the suit

being dismissed. But I hope that's what happens. I hope beans that that loss it will be dismissed. We will keep you posted. And with that, let's play the fantasy indictment league. I'm gonna be a di-t-it! No way, it's gonna be okay. I'm gonna be a di-it! Crag Dick. A di-it-it!

Crag. I'm gonna be a di-it-it! Hold it! It's gonna be okay. Just calm down. I can't calm down, I'm gonna be a di-it! Alright, so I know the fantasy indictment league probably isn't as fun when I'm just by myself here, but I'm gonna go ahead and make five picks anyway

and we'll see how everything shakes out. I am going to pick Jislene and Rudy Giuliani and I think we might see superseding parnas indictments and superseding Korea indictments and then I am going to select Pecker. I've selected Pecker. So those are my picks for the fantasy indictment league this week, given the sabotage,

and given everything else that's going on, who knows what's gonna be happening in the next six, eight months, honestly. But I'm gonna keep doing the show, and I'm not going anywhere. So with that, we will be right back with activist writer and army veteran Charlotte Climer.

You don't want to miss this interview, so stay with us. Hey everybody, it's A.G. and this segment of Muller She Wrote is brought to you by Worthy. I'm a big proponent of selling your engagement ring if your relationship ends. I might have some experience with this. Selling jewelry, you don't wear freeze-up negative energy attached to it.

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is activist, writer, army veteran, and shelterer in place. I assume Charlotte Climber, Charlotte. Welcome to Mueller, she wrote. Hey, A.G. How you doing? I'm hanging in there. I'm hanging in there. How are you? How are you holding up?

What's your world been like this past week? Oh my goodness. It has been readjusting to, I guess, all sorts of things, but mainly the new reality that we're facing. Yeah, it's kind of been almost movie-like. Like, I almost feel like it's just, like, it's not really, like, it's, I'm having a hard time grasping, but it's really actually happening outside my door

You know what I mean? It feels like we're watching ourselves in a way. Yeah It doesn't feel real to some extent. I know that's strange. It just doesn't it feels surreal all the time Yeah, and I'm so good at dissociating and watching myself from afar dissociating and watching myself from afar. That it just feels like that's happening to the planet right now. I just, it's hard for me to get my head around it. I, I'm trying to compartmentalize as best as I can. You know, we don't have to process everything in the moment.

And so I'm trying to figure out how I can be a, you know, best of help to the people around me and also, you know, best of help to the people around me and also, you know, focus my own self-care and not buy it off more than I can chew in terms of just considering everything that's going on. Yeah, I think that's really good advice to just take it a little bit, you know, a little bit at a time as you can because it is a lot and I know that we're being faced with these press briefings. Are you watching these things as they happen? I have to admit I am and it's kind of my job to in any time that Trump or senior official does one of these conferences, I need to watch it so that I understand

what the news cycle is about, but I don't think the media should cover them. They are not helpful. They're not meant to be helpful, by the way. They're meant to present a sense of action that's really not present. Trump is just trying to exert a big footprint on the media landscape with these conferences. That's all they're about. Yeah, it seems to me like they're because you can't have his rallies now. These seem like little tiny campaign rallies to me. Yes, that is exactly right. Yes, they are little propaganda vignettes. Ugh.

And they've just been disgusting. And I think it was yesterday, I think, or the day before he yelled at the reporter, like the reporter was like, tell us, what do you say to people who are afraid? And he's like, you're a nasty reporter, you're a terrible person. And then he's been, he was, I remember, I think it was, uh, Dan Abash got a, uh, a bunch of shit for saying that, you know, his tone was great. And, uh, but that, whatever that tone was that she got in trouble for touting Is gone. He's back to just being a kind of a testy jerk

You know, I like Dana a lot. I know her in person. She's a she's really she's a professional And I'm not sure what she was thinking with that comment, but I think you're right It's it was a it was a flash of humility that we slash of humility that we really haven't seen from him much. At least since the 2016 campaign, when he lost, I think Iowa wasn't. That's the last time we saw a kind of flashy humility. And now he's back to his same old self. Just that toxic blustering ego that wants of override everybody and exert his own opinion. Yeah. Well, while I have you here, you and I are both veterans. Thank you for your service,

by the way. Thank you for your service. No problem. It was as I like to say, it was in the Navy under Clinton, so it wasn't very hard. But, you know, we're always sort of qualifying our own imposter syndrome situations at least. But you and I are both veterans, and I wanted to talk about something that you have me, you might have a unique perspective on. The VA has a fourth mission, and that's to assist the country in times of crises such as this. And last Friday, that fourth mission went missing from the VA's website, and it wasn't until

this week that they marched Secretary Wilkie out to discuss that fourth mission, and he had to sort of admit that it was real. I was wondering, how do you think, what do you know about how the VA is responding to this? I know they've only tested a few hundred veterans, and we've already had a death. But what are your thoughts on the VA's response to this? First of all, do you use VA? And second of all, what are your thoughts on their response to this?

I used to get occasionally. I used to get most of my health care through them. Now it's only sparingly when I have something that I can't get checked out like a small clinic. It doesn't surprise me. Before Trump was inaugurated, the VA, I felt was not the most perfect agency that was run, but at least they were hyper focused on trying to improve.

Ever since Trump was inaugurated, it seems the leadership of the VA is largely incompetent. There was this push to privatize the DA or at least put, you know, corporate leadership over it. Propeublica did this really great story. I think in late 2018 or early 2019, in which they discussed how Trump essentially hinted over the reigns of the VA to three corporate leaders who were not formally appointed or confirmed by the Senate, and that it was essentially run through that private train bridge.

And so it doesn't really surprise me given that, you know, the most competent officials within the VA have been pushed out or forced out or shame for speaking out about, you know, the VA's day-to-day ongoing. So yeah, when I saw that story about the VA erasing that fourth part of their mission, I thought, oh, yeah, that's just another day at Veterans Affairs. Ha-ha.

Well, have you seen, I did an interview, I think it was last October with Dr. Shulkin, who used to run the VA. And he set up the whistleblower and accountability office within the department of veterans affairs. And they had a VA inspector general report on them come out saying it was abysmal. They were retaliating against whistleblowers.

They were pushing out disloyal employees. And so I think to speak to exactly to your point of there's just a brain drain at the VA right now and I think that that's going to negatively impact what's happening with the coronavirus response is a very legitimate concern. So yeah, and those three doctors at Mar-a-Lago, and then of course we have our Choice Act, which was supposed to be temporary, passed and signed by Obama in 2014. And then, of course, this Republican president made it permanent, which is to outsource veteran care

to the private sector where, with the taxpayers pay twice, sometimes three times as much for less quality care. And so, yeah, I think you're right. I think it's par for the course. And I think that some foreign reports are a member of're right. I think it's par for the course. And I think it's important for folks to remember that it's not enough for laws to be on the books. It's not enough for protections to be in place. You have to have the infrastructure to enforce them. We saw that with, oh my gosh, what is his name? The Army Lieutenant Colonel who was,

of course, at the White House for testify before congress okay colonel vindamine colonel vindamine yeah colonel vindamine and his brother were fired from their white house staff positions after trump was essentially insinuated by the uh... nonexonnerated but at least uh... had his articles in the future protected by the senate i mean you know that was a clear that was a clear uh... act of corruption uh... by the white house and it was not held accountable by anyone in the

federal government so if you're a whistleblower looking at this if you're a whistleblower looking at the uh... firons nv a and the uh... the the actions across all federal agencies which employees have essentially been forced out if they don't tell the line you know, you're kind of looking at the situation and thinking, what incentive do I have to speak out? Oh, 100%.

And one of the day, one of these days, I'll tell you about what happened to my job. Oh, yeah, I would love to know. I will. I'm still working on some things behind the scenes, but as soon as I am able, I'll definitely let you know about that. Now I wanted to talk about your projects and partnerships, including the Human Rights Campaign, Truman Project, how we can help, like just tell us about, tell us about some of those things.

Well, one thing that I really want folks to understand is that, you know, amid all of these just massive crises going on, whether it's corona or Trump's ongoing corruption, LGBTQ rights are under daily assault by the federal government. You know, in 2015, when Alberta fell, the Hodges was, you know, ruled by the Supreme Court and same-sex marriage was legalized throughout all 50 states. I think that there was a sphere among a lot of LGBTQ advocates that Americans would get complacent and think,

oh, so the LGBTQ rights movement is over. Same-sex marriage was a very important, but a small piece of the overall movement. Yeah, I was sort of like how people felt like once Obama was elected, that we were done with racism. That's exactly right. And so I think that's kind of the very similar feelings that we're happening with what happened in 2015. Right. And it's unfortunate because, you know, in 29 states, in 29 states, most of the country,

LGBTQ people can still be fired from their jobs for being LGBTQ. They can be denied credits. They can be denied housing. They can be denied public accommodations. They can be denied fairness and jury trials. Across the board, there is a lack of federal non-describination protections. So what we've seen is this effort by the Trump White House to push, you know, river laws, religious freedom, restoration act laws, that in the name of religious freedom will oppress LGBTQ people, religious minorities, you know, women who seek to have control over their own bodies with reproductive health care across the board, right? Right now, the Supreme Court is considering three cases regarding Title VII, the Civil Rights Act.

That would essentially try to answer the question of whether or not an LGBTQ person can be fired, by an employer solely on the basis of their gender identity or sexual orientation. And any day now, it could be next week or, you know, as late as June, they're going to hand down the ruling for those three cases jointly. And they're going to decide whether or not an LGBTQ person can be fired for being LGBTQ. And so what I want folks to understand is that, you know, that fight is far from over. And we could very well see, you know see even just a few months from now, LGBTQ people and not even just LGBTQ people, but folks who are straight or cisgender,

but perceived this LGBTQ will be vulnerable and lack those protections in the workplace and have that codified in the law by the Supreme Court. And so we need to make sure that we're finding against that and that we're demanding from lawmakers, federal protections and support the Quality Act, which is the big piece of legislation that would legalize federal and non-describination protections. That's really interesting that you bring up a straight and cisgender people who can be perceived

as LGBTQ plus. That's something that I personally hadn't considered before. So. Oh yeah, I mean, I think that a lot of cis women have been shocked to discover that their, I guess their appearance is controlled in these kind of environments or discussion of their sex lives or I mean not shocked but in a sense

Surprise that they could be perceived as LGBTQ because for example, they might dress too masculine or they might not talk about their partners at work or They might you know decline to have children which could be could be perceived as not being into men or something to that fact. And so, everyone is really vulnerable under these anti-LGBTQ laws. We just don't talk about that a lot because it doesn't make sense. It seems like the common sense view, even among a lot of conservatives, is that people are protected based on their gender identity or sexual orientation, and that's not true. Marriage is the only right that LGBTQ people have

that is universal in United States right now. Well, I appreciate that. You bring in that up. That's a lot to think about. That's really a lot of intense stuff. And now with what's going on with coronavirus, and we know they're trying to shut the courts down. And Mitch McConnell has been calling Republican judges that could retire soon to urge them to retire so

that they can be replaced with young, fresh Republican judges who will sit on the bench for decades. And they're trying to do that before the election, presumably that Trump wouldn't win it and would not be able to appoint anymore judges. But yeah, well, that's really, really scary. Yeah, and so, and so is what you, you know, you're talking about too. We all need to be very vigilant about that. How can people help? How can people get involved in the human rights campaign or or the Truman project or anything else that you're working on that we can do something where we can help make a difference? Well here's the good news. People don't have to go through to elaborate links to help out in this movement. All you got to do are simple things, register to vote,

dear friends and friends and family to register to vote, and make sure that you and the people around you are supporting pro-equality candidates. Not just LGBTQ, but anyone who is adjacent to the equality movement, whether it's reproductive rights, gun reform, racial justice, support for labor unions, decisions are made by people who show up, right? If we're not making sure that we're holding

those around us accountable and ensuring that they show up to vote and support pro-quality candidates, we're not gonna have the kind of lawmakers in place who will protect all of our rights. I mean, it's so, so, very basic. I think that a lot of people think they have to go show up to a rally and bring a side and you know go to a phone bank and all those things are great and we want you to do those things but

really when it comes down to it you gotta fucking vote. You gotta vote. Hearing me from Facebook and Twitter is not voting. You know bringing up a hot political topic at a dinner table is not voting. Voting is voting. Yeah, nothing, nothing, uh, nothing replaces it. It is. It is. Nothing replaces it. Very good.

Very good. And, and, you know, you can also volunteer to help register people to vote. Like you said, get your friends and family to vote. Um, well, right now we should be making a huge push to do handmarked mail in paper ballots, um, uh, for this election because we may not be able to go and vote. So we have to make sure it's protected. We have to make sure it's, and we have, like you said, the LGBTQ plus issues permeate so

many other levels and ideas in government, including unions and, you know, all the things that you mentioned. So it's just very important. And I really appreciate you, just fucking vote. I really like that. We should just get shirts go in or something. And you know, I think also just remember that everyone is stressed out right now.

Yeah. And those of us who are in vulnerable communities, whether it be LGBTQ people, folks of color, religious minorities, women, persons with disabilities. Everyone is on edge right now. Everyone's angry, they're irritated. Make sure you're graceful. I know it's so hard sometimes to want to do the right thing and feel like there's a lot of aggression or hostility. Just make sure you see where people are coming from. Recognize their pain. If you can recognize their pain, that's half the battle. I promise you.

recognize their pain. If you can recognize their pain that's half the battle, I promise you. Yep, definitely. Thank you so much, activist writer, Army veteran, awesome person, Charlotte Climber. Thank you for coming on to Bollarshire today. Thank you, A.G. I love you, I love you, I'm a big fan. Thank you so much for doing what you do. Thank you for doing what you do, and please be safe. You say. All right, everybody, that is our show. Hey, tell you what, we would love your feedback. So if you have any recommendations about how you'd

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