Jack - Russia 2 Election Boogaloo (feat. Malcolm Nance)

Episode Date: February 24, 2020

Today on Mueller, She Wrote we're talking about Russian interference in the 2020 election and we have an interview with Malcolm Nance. Become a patron at patreon.com/muellershewrote!

Welcome to Teacher Quit Talk, I'm Miss Redacted, and I'm Mrs. Frazzled. Every week we explore the teacher exodus to find out what if anything could get these educators back in the classroom. We've all had our moments where we thought, what the hell am I doing here? From burnout to bureaucracy to soul-secing stressors and creative dead ends, from recognizing when it was time to go, to navigating feelings of guilt and regret afterwards, we're here to cut off a gaslighting and get real about what it means to leave teaching. We've got insights from former teachers from all over the country who have seen it all. So get ready to be disturbed.

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and events so it never gets old. Download free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. Hi, I'm Scott Dworkin from the Democratic Coalition and you're listening to Mollyshi Road. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what the opposition is.

I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have, not have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with? Food and fire? I have nothing to do with food and I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green.

Communism is just a red hairing. Like all members of the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist. Hello, and welcome to Muller She Wrote. I'm your host, A.G. And with me today, I'm Jordan Coburn. Hello. And Amanda Reeder. Hello.

We have so much news today. We got the Roger Stone sentencing. Russia is attacking our election cycle. I sound really excited about that. I don't mean to be. We have an interview with Malcolm Nance today. He's a super expert at pretty much everything. And I wanted to thank Oprah, an Oprah magazine, for listing us as one of the 15 political podcasts you need to keep you sane through the 2020 election cycle. I've never gotten the Oprah stamp of approval before. Didn't even know it was coming. Yeah, many of there. That was a really cool surprise. So thank you so much. Thank you, Oprah and Harpo

Productions. Brad, very, very cool. And yeah, all the other prods on there are amazing. I know we're in really good company, but we're pretty cool. Yeah, very cool. The pre-Barrah one, and of course the daily, and Vox is on there. Yes, and PR is through line. Through line.

Wow. 538. Fuck. Yeah, really cool. It's great. Like, what? Us? There's like, there's five of us.

OK, yes. But also, it's cool because it's just a whole community of people. Like, there's a whole, that's just a really good list to just pick anytime you're feeling like I need more information or I want a different vibe or something. Just like, listen to any of those. Yeah, and they're all good. They're all different vibes, but they're all like my biggest individuals. We're probably the swearingest. Probably the most dig jokes.

My favorite is like, listen to Mueller, she wrote, blah, blah, blah, great, this, it's awesome, blah, blah, blah, and the thing that says, and if you never want to hear the name, Mueller again, check out their Daily Show, the Daily News. You should be so lucky, Mueller slips in anywhere. I know, he doesn't go away, we've got the Roger Stone stuff for you this week. And I mean, people are like, when you're going to change your name, I'm like, let's see what happens in July when the molar material is dropped. And then we can have a chat about it. That'd be like,

when it's a slow burn, going to not do a podcast about Nixon since that's so old, like, just stop. Anyway, thank you so much to all of our supporters and everything. A webbies are coming up again soon. I don't know if we're nominated. Maybe not. I could have just jinxed it if we're not, because I just said, not gonna what not gonna reclaim would. All right. Well, we have a lot of news,

but before we get to it, we would like to correct ourselves. It's time to stay. It's time for me to say I'm sorry. Oh, I made a mistake. Okay, from Celeste's technique, I love the show. I wake up and listen first thing every morning. Wake and beans. It doesn't rhyme. Can't put it in a ball.

Dreams and beans. Nope, that doesn't. Dreams and beans. It's the toughest thing I've ever said in my life. I just should have my comedy card refoked for that. No, that doesn't. Dreams in me. It's the toughest thing I've ever said in my life. I just should have my comedy card revoked for that. Dreams in beans, my friends. This isn't a correction, she says, but I wanted to give you all some insight on liberals

in Texas. It's not a red state. It's a non-voting state. Unfortunately, everyone here for decades has been led to believe democratic votes don't matter because of gerrymandering and the very vocal conservatives in the state. Beto did so well because we actually felt hope for once Which also explains why so many of us support Bernie keep up the good reporting. Thank you for all you're doing Awesome and shitty. Sorry that's the state of that state. Yeah, that really sucks. I think they know now

Mm-hmm Publicans are in trouble From Matt and also Stephanie Lynch Tibbetts from Matt and also Stephanie Lynch, Tibbetts, Addy Bressler, Chris Winters, and Martin Brosnan. Thank you for putting this show out. I've loved it since I started listening, what feels like years ago. You mentioned that Texas has the legal right to secede,

which is incorrect. Prior to the Civil War in 1861, Texas did vote to secede, but it was never approved by the governor at the time. A Supreme Court case, Texas V White, decided that Texas set precedent that no state is allowed to secede when they want to. More information here and then they put Britannica.com slash events slash Texas V White. That's nice. That's some good emotional stability. It's a Texas happy correction segment you guys. It is Texas happy. Yes, it's

very Texas happy today. We mess. We messed. We messed. We did. We messed. We were going to say it didn't we. They came out in force and I love it. And they say thank you so much for working so hard on the show. Something I We did. We met you really well. We met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we met you, we myself correcting Texas stereotypes. No, we don't all ride horses to school. No, we aren't all red on the map. Houston is the most diverse metropolis in America. It resettles more refugees than any other in the country. Austin is not our only liberal enclave. Our major city is Houston, Dallas, San Antonio,

El Paso, or all blue as well, as our southern border. I promise we got a lot more to show in a way of open-mindedness, embrace minute diversity, and liberal and independent thinking. Don't write us off just yet. Anyway, I wanted to say something because I really do admire y'all. And I want you to know,

there's a lot of hope and friends to be found in the Lone Star State. Let's just get that hope to the polls. Fuck yeah. Wasn't that great? Yes, that's beautiful. And thank you, thank you for that. Texas does need to make a, well, they shouldn't have to do it

because they're already awesome as this person is saying, but they need to make a comeback in the minds of the American people. Yes, for sure, for reals. Get that liberal mind into this out there because we know it's there. And it reminded me I had a pen pal when I was in Cleveland and, or I was in Arizona and my pen pal was in Cleveland.

And I was a kid in Arizona and she would write me letters like, do you have enough water? Uh, how do you get to school? Like, so I understand the stereotype. I'm sure they have the tumbling weed, yeah. I'm like, be careful of the cactuses, you know, I'm like, cacti, bitch. Okay. Um, um, uh, met Morenson as the only Danish patron, I I think I feel obligated to correct you on

Mandy's mention of the lovely Cristiana it's not quite its own country squatters took over an old abandoned military area in the middle of town because of a housing shortage it turned hippie anarchistic and they live with their own rules like no cars legal sale of cannabis and so on they vote and pay income tax amenities and other taxes except for housing taxes because they don't own it. It's more like a social experiment, but it's the third most popular tourist attraction in Copenhagen. Interesting. I don't know what the first is. That's so interesting.

I know. Yeah. It's really cool. Go watch some YouTube videos on it. Yeah. Well, when you think of the concept of the squatter, you don't really think of the full possibilities. Yeah, well, when you think of the concept of the squatter, you don't really think of the full possibilities. Yeah. You know, of that. Let's just squat somewhere and make a new thing. Yeah. Starts challenge it. From Theresa Timlin, Judge Braille Howe does not run the Federal Judges Association.

We did correct this on on a recent daily beans. The head of FJA is Cynthia Rufe, a Pennsylvania lifelong Republican appointed by President Bush, FJA is an on-partisan and usually weighs in on issues like judge of salaries. That they are having an emergency meeting is quite remarkable. And she says, I'm an aw of how you stay on top of the news. And then from Nadia, I know you always cringe when you say small dick energy, so I wanted to suggest fragile, peen energy instead. Fragile peen energy does not correlate with penis size,

men pay online sex workers for dick ratings all the time, and plenty of men pay for small penis humiliation, even when they may not be small. Long story short, don't humiliate a man about the size with penis for free, get paid for it. Mm-hmm. I asked my favorite corrections ever. Love your show.

Thanks for breaking things down, so they're easier to understand. It's funny. And for breaking things down. So they're easier to understand. It's funny. And get paid for it. And Kirsten Zulfo, you ladies, provide amazing content. Y'all rock. Keep people motivated, which is critical for healthy democracy. The coffee cart episode, when discussing the Iran vote,

and Trump's threatened veto, Jordan said, keep coming over Republicans. And AG added, we need 60. We need five more. Well, 60 is the number needed to achieve cloture. Vito requires a larger number. They need two thirds. Damn it. So with 55 senders voting further Iran resolution, we need 12 more. I hate fractions. And in the house, well, oh yeah, no, 12 more. Okay, maths. She says, I'm loving the daily beans. I'm thrilled

to be a patron of your work. Thank you. That was Kirsten. And then, for Mary Reffling, love your podcast. Listen every day, I was seriously offended when you guys just may repeat. Posted on my Facebook page, supporters of Bernie are calling Pete a shining little, shiny little toy boy with will such snark win over moderates and Democrat

and the Democratic Party. Would you consider apologizing? It gave friend felt the comment was homophobic and misogynistic. I'm not sure whether those adjectives apply, but in any case, I may have to go door-to-door to OTV with a Bernie supporter, and an apology would help mend fences. That said, I find your detailed commentary

on Trump's duplicity extremely useful. Thank you. I do want to make a little correction of the correction. I don't think Jordan said boy toy. She said toy boy. That's what they said. Okay. Yeah, toy boy. And I think you were trying to say that was just a riff that came to my brain I was imagining literally like a Pinocchio to it all with like shiny cheeks It's because you're so freaking he has he has an adorable smile and that is exactly I personally yep, yeah, I don't think you weren't Sineuating that he be passed around nope. It was just one of the Christmas

Nope, it was just one of the many little quips that we throw out about candidates' looks, which we've also gotten criticisms for, but it's just a joke that was in no way related to his human qualities and... Or his sexuality. Or his sexuality. Right, it was literally just a flippant comment

about him looking like a doll kind of. Cause he's just so adorable. Yeah. And I also said the same thing about Kushner. If you if you want to go back and find that somewhere, that's the exact the exact same thing. And we are definitely sorry we didn't mean to offend anybody. Yeah. And I just want you I want you know when I was following up on your comments Jordan I wasn't in I wasn't of the mind that he was a boy toy, but rather just his looks. Yeah, 100% a looks-based thing. It was kind of a backhand compliment, but.

It was, yeah. But yes, thank you. I could thank you for writing. Yeah, thank you for pointing it out. I could see though how someone could make a connection based on as a criticism of his age or his sexuality. So yeah, I apologize if anyone was offended, but yeah, that was not the intent.

Yeah, please know that's not what we meant. Yes, we would never do that. That said, thank you so much for your corrections and thank you for pointing these out. We can always do better. If you have any corrections, head to mullershirope.com, contact select corrections and build us a compliment sandwich. We will get it right eventually.

With that, let's get to the news with just the facts. So we had another big week in the Mueller investigation with the sentencing hearing of weird steampunk carney swinger Roger Stone. No shame to any of those things. Amy Burman who we've come to know as Judge Jackson if you're nasty had a weighty if not seemingly impossible job she had three different sentencing recommendations to from the department of justice and one from Stone's legal team. We know the story of the department's recommendations.

The first was seven to nine years, which comprised of the sentencing guidelines, plus an eight point upward variance for making violent threats against the witness, which was the subject of his witness intimidation felony. The second DOJ recommendation, red like it had been written by a five year old, no offense to five year olds,

and called for much less. Stone's legal team, they were asking for only probation, no jail time. So Judge Jackson was in a precarious place, if she sentenced him too harshly, the right-wing dill bags would have had a scream fest on judge box of wine, Jenny and Piro's show, and if she was too lenient, it would look like she had succumbed to the pressure she felt from the Attorney General, she didn't feel, but that came from the attorney general and Trump. Apart from those variables, she had to hand down a sentence that would punish stone for shitting all over the rule of law.

And the face of a nation about to lose its rule of law status, if we haven't already. I think we have. After the new prosecutor stood up, surprisingly defending the original sentencing memo from the four prosecutors that withdrew from the case in protest and That was also signed by the freshly installed bar patty at the US attorney's office in DC She said Judge Burma Jackson said unsurprisingly, I have a lot to say But before we get to her greatest hits and it's important to note that the new prosecutor Had some astonishing things to say on behalf of the old prosecutors, including telling Judge Jackson that the old prosecutors were right.

And I'm sorry for the top level interference. And admitting it was basically a bunch of bullshit and please just go by the first correct sentencing memorandum and we're super sorry. So this makes me feel like if they were going to put people in that we're going to say something like that and support the previous prosecutors, the only reason they wanted them out was to retaliate against them for being supporters or being involved in the Mueller investigation. It could have been a plot to get them out. Yeah. To get non-Trump loyalists to resign.

Right. Because I guess maybe these people, I don't know, that doesn't seem very Trump loyalist. Mm-hmm. So why would they replace them with him? I don't know the behind the scene story. Maybe they thought he would go in and go in and support the bar memo, but refuse to when he was faced with a judge like I can't do this to a judge. My candor and my candicity candidacy with the court, my candidness, my candidacity, can't

be, I won't put it at risk. So here's some of what she had to say. At trial, the defense, these are quotes. At trial, the defense appropriately questioned Randy Cretico's credibility and Rick Gates' credibility, but it was largely Stone's own emails and his own texts that proved the allegations beyond a reasonable doubt. So what did the defense say to the jury on his behalf? So what?

So what? Of all the circumstances in this case, this may be the most pernicious. The truth still exists. The truth still matters. Roger Stone's insistence that it doesn't, his belligerence, his pride in his own lies, are a threat to our most fundamental institutions

to the very foundation of our democracy. And if it goes unpunished, it will not be a victory for one party or another. Everyone loses because everyone depends on the representatives they elect to make the right decisions on a myriad of issues, many of which are politically charged, but many of which aren't based on the facts. Everyone depends on our elected representatives to protect our elections from foreign interference

based on the facts. No one knows where the threat is going to come from next time or whose side they'll be on. And for that reason, the dismay and disgust at the defendant's belligerence should transcend party. The dismay, I thought that that was pretty strongly worded. She also said the dismay and disgust at the attempts by others to defend his actions are just business as usual in our polarized climate. And that should transcend party. The dismay and disgust with any attempts to interfere with the efforts of prosecutors and members of the judiciary to fulfill their duty should transcend party. Sure, the defense is free to say so what? Who cares?

But I'll say this, Congress cared, the United States Department of Justice, and the United States Attorney's Office in the District of Columbia that prosecuted this case and is still prosecuting this case cared. The jurors who served with integrity under difficult circumstances cared, the American people cared, and I care. Yes, oh, God. Never know. I didn't even know judges ever got that political or political sounding.

Well, she's trying to say it's like transcending. Right, right, right, right, but it's, but it's still a very like moral, you know, it's a moral appeal. It is. Yeah. Decent and see. In the next part, she tears into Trump and bar without naming them specifically. She says, this case also exemplifies why it is that this system for good reason demands

that the responsibility falls to someone neutral. Someone whose job may involve issuing opinions in favor of and against the same administration in the same week and not someone who has a longstanding friendship with the defendant. Trump. Not someone whose political career was aided by the defendant, Trump. And surely not anyone who has a personal involvement in the events underlying the case, Trump. The court cannot be influenced by those comments. They were entirely inappropriate, but I will not hold them against the defendant either. So she didn't say the word Trump by the way

it was my, yeah, of course pointing out who she's talking about. And that she's not going to hold what Trump did against Stone. She said it would be equally improper to be buffeted by the winds of blowing from the left, the enthusiastic callers who object to what the defendant stands for. I cannot and will not sentence him for the behavior of those he supports, sentencing his personal and it's based on the evidence. She then brought it home saying, I have received letters urging me not to silence an important voice in the public arena,

but that will not be an element of this sentence in any way. I expect he will keep talking. And as you've just heard, when I went through the elements of the offense, he was not convicted and not as not being sentenced for exercising his first amendment rights, his support of the president's campaign, or his policies. He was not prosecuted as some have complained for standing up for the president. He was prosecuted for covering up for the president's campaign or his policies. He was not prosecuted as some have complained

for standing up for the president. He was prosecuted for covering up for the president. Boom! She then sentenced him to 40 months on count one, 12 months on counts two through six, and 18 months on count seven to be served concurrently. So he got 70 months, but he only has to serve 40 because he's serving all three of those at the same time

and 40 is the longest of the three. That's if he goes to prison. And she's still weighing a motion from Stone for a retrial based on what he thinks is a biased juror who turned out to be the four person of the jury. And then Saturday, Roger Stone's team filed another motion asking the court to remove Judge Jackson from the case, saying she is biased because she stood up for the integrity of the biased jury. I sincerely doubt either of those motions will carry.

However, we'll see how this plays out. That's it. That's the whole Roger Stone case. How long do you think Trump will take to pardon him? He said he's not going to do it now. Trump has said he thinks Stone will be exonerated, meaning Trump feels that she'll be booted off the case. Or that he knew that she was going to, he was going to file a motion to boot her off the case. Or he thinks that he'll be exonerated in a retrial. Right. I know he tweeted in support of that retrial.

And, uh, well, probably, when do you, do you have any idea when we would know if there's going to be no and my fear my fear is that the Trump White House advised Roger Stone to file the motion to have the judge a judge Jackson removed from the case and that he's got it set up somewhere that she would be. This is what I'm really terrified to see going into November. He is either going to choose to take that time leading up to the election to stay away from crime or he's going to take that opportunity to double down on crime. And if he can get elected, because in 2016, he got elected trying to shove the crime under the bed.

If he gets elected in 2020, openly talking about it and doing it like that and making it a thing, that's incredibly out there for all to see. And he gets elected on that. That is like so much worse than 2016. Yep. Yeah, totally. I agree with you. And we have a lot of that in the hot notes and with our interview with Malcolm Nance later. So stick around. We'll be right back after this message with more Russian interference. Stay with us. Hey, everybody. It's AG in this episode. And Buller She Wrote is brought to you by Beta brand.

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Go to betabrand.com- AG for 20% off today. Okay, welcome back. So just in time for the Nevada caucus, we got news about Russia 2 election Bougaloo. Last week the intelligence community briefed the gang of eight that Russia is once again interfering in our elections. Devon Nunez, who attended the briefing, likely ran to Papa and told him about it before the FBI could, which sent Trump into a rage, during which he dressed down McGuire, the director of National Intelligence at the office of Director of National Intelligence, or the ODNI. This week, he resigned his position, he was fired, and he was replaced with Rick Grinnell, a huge piece of shit, Dick Hall, that has absolutely zero experience with intelligence,

or law enforcement, or anything anything other than probably day rape. And although all of us knew this was coming, all of us knew Russia has been interfering and is continuing to interfere. Trump is calling it a hoax and accusing Democrats of conspiring with Russia to take him down in November. How did we know this was happening? Well, let's listen to Mueller last July. Is this in your investigation, did you think that this was a single attempt by the Russians to get

involved in our election? Or did you find evidence to suggest they'll try to do this again? Oh, I wasn't a single attempt. They're doing it as we sit here. And they expected to do it during the next campaign. And the day before more testified July twenty third fby director chris rei who was put in by trump had the same warning saying the Russians are absolutely intent on trying to interfere with our elections and he told Lindsey graham crackers uh... Lindsey asked everything we've done against russia has not deterred them enough asked

Lindsey Graham the republican committee chairman uh... all the sanctions all the talk they're still at it none of the other you all the bills and they're still at it. None of the other 30 bills. So you're 30 bills? And he says, yes, my view is until they stop, they haven't been deterred enough. Piece of shit. And remember the speech this week that Oxford Union, we talked about this speech where Mick Mulvaney admitted Republican suck at deficits, that whole thing.

Well our old friend Matthew Fucking-Wittaker also spoke at that thing and said absolutely and under no uncertain terms, Russia interfered in 2016. They interfered in 2018 and they're doing it in 2020. And we have the New York Times reporting last month, maybe six weeks ago, that the FBI is actively looking into Russia interfering in 2020 on Trump's behalf. And despite all this, and the entire Mueller report and the January 2017 intelligence assessment and everything coming out of the Republican run committees in the Congress and in the House and the Senate intelligence and committees saying Russian interference. Despite all that, Trump still denies it. Trump still denies it.

It's happening. And we got some other big news this week about Russian interference. And I wanted to tee this up with a clip from the Mueller testimony, another clip. Here we have Republican, Republican, I say, will heard, um, saying his committee recommended the FBI get better at informing campaigns when interference from a foreign adversary was occurring. Let's listen to that. As a former CIA officer, I want to focus on something I think both sides of the political aisle can agree on.

That is, how do we prevent Russian intelligence and other adversaries from doing this again? And after overseeing and counterintelligence operations for 12 years as FBI and director, and then investigating what the Russians have done in the 2016 election, you've seen tactics, techniques, and results of Russian intelligence operations. Our committee made a recommendation that the FBI should improve its victim notification process when a person into to your campaign has fallen victim to active measures of tack. Would you agree with this? to see your campaign has fallen victim to active measures of tax. Would you agree with this?

It sounds like a worthwhile endeavor. I will tell you though that the ability of our intelligence agencies to work together in this arena is perhaps more important than that. So in that clip, not only do we have Mueller saying it would be a good idea for the FBI to get better at informing campaigns when Russia is trying to infiltrate them, but that even more important than that is that we have efficient coordination between intelligence agencies. And the person in the government who's responsible for ensuring our intelligence agencies

work together and communicate effectively is the motherfuckin director of national intelligence. Great. This is a position created in the wake of 9-11 to ensure the FBI, CIA, NSA, and the other 14 intelligence agencies are communicating effectively so as to prevent things like terrorists attacks, in which let's face it, Russia interference is a terrorist attack. In response to this stark warning, Trump had gutted the office of the Directorate of National Intelligence, fired the DNI for briefing the intelligence committees in Congress about Russian interference and replaced him with a loyalist with zero experience

in intelligence. And also put a guy named Kosh Patel, who was a former Devon Nunez, a traveled to London to try to find Christopher Steele to discredit the Russia investigation in 2016. Yeah, well, were they just kind of like pulled fiction that scene if they found him? What, what, how do they think that was going to go? They speak English and what? Yeah, two dudes just walking up. They speak English in England. But it appears the FBI did get the message of informing victims, being better at informing

victims of foreign campaign interference as we learned this this weekend that the Sanders campaign was informed a month ago that Russia was interfering on its behalf. But we have a stark difference between Trump's reaction that Russia's interfering and Bernie's reaction that that Russia's interfering. Trump was pissed. He fired the DNI gutted gutted the for briefing Congress about it, and then said publicly was all a hoax. But Bernie denounced Putin, told him to stay the fuck out. And if he's president, Russia will not interfere in all actions again. I'm paraphrasing. But he had very strong words for probably not that far off from that though. He's not feisty. He was waving

his finger. He was mad. He's getting spicy. He's getting very, very spicy. Also, he also insinuated, and we talked about this a little bit in the daily beans at the Washington Post dropped that story right ahead of the Nevada caucus in an attempt to maybe try to hurt him in that caucus. Didn't work. He went on to win Nevada handily, as we all expected he would. So some people are asking questions. Why didn't he address it a month ago?

Bernie? And Bernie is asking questions. Why didn't Washington Post put the story out a month ago? So there's just sort of a bunch of stuff evolving around this, but the fact of the matter is, this shouldn't be a surprise. It's in the Mueller report. Russia did this in 2016 because they hate Hillary. They wanted to boost Bernie. And they wanted to so discord and confusion. And we said then, and I would say now

that I'm certain that Bernie isn't working with the Russians. But that is what Trump is going to say. Yeah, I know. Oh my god. OK, well, first off, that's laughable, obviously. But I'm curious to see this difference between a candidate that denounces it publicly and strongly like Bernie did versus Trump who welcomed it and tried to facilitate it. And the only reason they didn't get in trouble for that is because they're too fucking dumb

to know that they weren't allowed to do that. And that is making me cover it up other things. The Russian interference by not allowing bills to pass for election security, kicking everyone out who's a Russia expert. I'm going to go over all this in the hot notes. Yeah. It's just been a systematic building of a situation where Russia can interfere freely

because Trump wants them to. Definitely. And so I'm curious to see what happens when Russia is coming at either of these groups trying to interfere. One of them is receptive. The other is not. How do their efforts change in regards to Bernie's campaign after this? After he came out strongly against it? I don't.

Did they think he was ever gonna do anything other than come out strongly against it? It seems like it's mostly for the purpose of sowing discourse. Exactly. A month later. A month later. The citizens. Yeah.

I think so. I am Bernie acknowledged it in the Nevada debate. He said, if anyone's a jerk, if anyone is one of my supporters and they're a jerk to you, I disown them and they could be Russian. He said, we've been saying that about many different issues on Twitter. If someone's coming out and is being really inflammatory and stirring a lot of shit up, maybe look up and see if they're a bot. So it's funny. I had this conversation with someone recently. I was having a kind of a nuanced discussion with a friend of mine who was a

Elizabeth Warren supporter. I saw that she was out canvassing for Elizabeth Warren. It wasn't me. No, no, it wasn't. It wasn't AG actually. No. It was, I saw she was out canvassing for Elizabeth Warren in Chicago. And I was like, that's so awesome. I'm so excited to see you participating and doing this. I've been doing the same for Bernie. And she, we had a discussion about the concept of Bernie Bros. And she was like, I have faced harassment, there were women of faced harassment, this is a serious thing. And I was like, I totally recognize that. And I know that these people exist.

And I know that there are aggressive supporters of Bernie who do wrong and who do harm. That being said, I think that some of them are bots. You know, I think that there are people out there who are doing harm. Bernie acknowledged that. And he was told by the FBI. so I mean, he's got evidence. Exactly. I think that there are Russian bots who are trying to get us

to fucking eat each other alive. Yeah. And I also do think, too, though, that there is a legitimate, I don't want to gaslight anyone. I do believe that there's a legitimate group of people that are incredibly aggressive and have been more less disenfranchised up until this point for whatever reasons. And now that they're in it, they're coming at politics in general with just such an amount

of aggression and disdain, that they're not ready to be civil, really, which is not effective in something that they need to recognize is going to hurt the chances of the electability of their candidate. But yeah, I think those people exist, but I do think that they also very much exist as bots on the internet. Absolutely. Yes.

And Asha actually, a friend of the podcast. Friend of the show. Did a really good thread, and I wanna read it to you real quick. She says, if Bernie is a nominee, he needs to demand vocally and repeatedly that the intelligence community thoroughly investigate all Russian efforts to boost his campaign, provide him with regular updates, and for Trump to immediately take steps to ensure election security.

This serves three goals. First, it gives teeth to his assertion that he does not want help, and that he is willing to stand up to Putin. It illustrates unequivocally that he takes the side of our intelligence agencies over Russia and himself. It gives needed support to our intelligence community. Second, it's an obvious contrast to Trump's actions in 2016. It's, you know, IE, it's how a person who is horrified at foreign election interference would behave.

It also drives home the point that when one is innocent of collusion, one does not fear counterintelligence measures to stop it. Third puts the onus on Trump to do something. Remember that if Bernie gets the norm and wins, Trump will contest the results claiming the outcome is not legit because Russia helped him. If he refuses to take action now, that argument rings hollow. It's important to understand, even if you're a Bernie fan that Russia is using him as an insurance policy, Bernie can neutralize this if he does that stuff.

I just said, and he might actually sway people who were otherwise turned off to come over. The end. PS, this approach is also a good way to smoke out the bots. Yep, those quote unquote Bernie bros who don't support such a straightforward proposal and favor of democracy are likely sitting in a cubicle in St. Petersburg and don't want

the FBI sniffing in their business. I agree completely and I have full faith that him and his campaign will do that. Very well put, Asha. Stay with us. We'll be right back with hot notes in the fantasy indictment leak. Hey everybody, it's AG in this segment

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What do you have to lose? Visit num.com slash AG, just start your trial today. That's numm-n-oom.com slash AG. All right, welcome back. We're gonna switch it up today, because the fantasy indictment league and sabotage doesn't really combine well with the Malcolm Nance interview that we have in the third segment. So are you all ready for sabotage? Yes. All right, here's your sabotage. Prosecutors within the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York are

considering whether to charge Giuliani, associate, Lev Parnas, and one of his other business partners named Korea, with misleading potential investors in Fraud Guarantee. That's the Florida-based company that paid Giuliani. Parnas co-founded Fraud Guarantee with the idea of providing insurance to companies to protect against fraud. The scrutiny of fraud guarantee shines a little bit of more light, a little more light on Giuliani, a little bit of more light.

A little bit of more light, na na na na. Giuliani, Trump's defender, and it raises questions about what role Giuliani played if any in the marketing of the company. Lawyer for Giuliani said his client never had any conversations about investor pitches or marketing with Parnas or his partner, David Korea. Let's hope.

Burman, the US attorney in the Southern District, keeps with his same independent spirit that brought him to indict Hulk Bank in the face of opposition from bar and trap. Yeah. What about Fruman? Fruman wasn't part of our guarantee. No, Fruman was the weed guy that he worked with Parnas on weed deals. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Get him, Giuliani. Get Giuliani, I mean. I don't want the words.

Get him Giuliani to ever command him. I mean, that sounds like a command that I do not want. But I'm not soliciting. Do not fly out into the night with your bat wings. We're keeping that in. Are you ready to play the fantasy indictment, League? Yes. I'm going to be a plaintiff. No way. It's going to be okay. I you ready to play the fantasy indictment, Luke? Yes. I'm gonna be a candidate!

No way, this is gonna be okay. I'm gonna be a candidate! I'm gonna be a candidate! A candidate! I'm gonna be a candidate! Oh, they can't, it's gonna be okay. Just calm down. I can't calm down, I'm gonna be a candidate!

I get to go first. Woo, woo! Super seating Parnaas. Nice. Jolionny. You getting these? Super seating career. C-O-R-R-E-I-A.

I still think there's Super seating Freemann on the table. Alright. Maybe. Barric. Oh fuck! This will be the month. Week, whatever. Yes.

Y-I-A-D. You know what? I just, if it takes a jinx to get him indicted, then that's fine with me. That's why I'm stealing him. Yes. I'm a fan. Duty.

I will do AMI. How many do I have three? You've three so far, yes. Freak. Freak. I haven't heard that since Fifth grade. Laughing at G's Lane. What the freak? What's going on with old Galein? Yes, frick. Freak! I haven't heard that since 5th grade laughing the gizzling. What the freak?

What's going on with old Galein? Galein, they're trying to serve her with a lawsuit via email because no one can find her ass. Right. Hmm. Well, or the rest of her. Yeah. They got to get the right burner phone.

Or else I'll never reach her. Well, it's probably in Crowley's office. It's an email, that's office. It's right. There's like 13 of them. Yeah. Okay, how about a pecker? All right, we swapped. That was a good trade.

Nice. Pecker for Barric. One more, one more. Who to choose? Who to choose? Cucushnik. What's his name? Cucushnik?

Cucushnik. How do you choose? Cukushnik. What's his name? Cukushnik? Cukushnik. How do you spell his name? Cuk-Cuk-Cuk-He was the fourth- The fourth associate? In-Yeah, in the Parnas stuff. Let's see, Cukush-Kin.

K-U, K-U. I think. Let's see. If I go like if I do Parnas Frueman Cucushkin, I think that's it Yes, KU KU SH KIN oh

Cucushkin all right exactly how it sounds. And that would be super seething. All righty. Jordan, you are up. I had all this time. You want to double the plea agreement? Yeah, I could do that. None of this matters. No lives matter. No lives matter.

I never get any points. And bars in right now. so let's do super no Yeah, but we got that Burman. I mean he he brought the Hulk Bank indictment even though Trump didn't want him to yeah Also side-vances like going at it allegedly hopefully right hmm Okay time's taken baby. I'm gonna do Howard nice Dylan Howard the other lawyer Okay, time's taken, baby. I'm gonna do Howard. Nice. Dylan Howard, the other lawyer. Signed a non-proscution agreement with AMI

and Pecker, which was violated when they extorted basis. We still haven't heard anything about that. All right, that's the Fantasy and Diamond League. Let's hit the hot notes. Lookin' awesome. Hot notes. All right, time for hot notes. Jordan, you're up. That was a weird intro. That's okay. It started with a lot of energy. That's why I don't host shows. Right. Except this whole one. I met live comedy shows. I'm so so bad like introducing comics and love I'm so bad

Yeah, it's a hard thing and next is the funniest Person it's one of those things. It's so it's like too easy So it's like very simple to fuck up and over think in your brain. Yeah, yeah, it's like okay like I'm doing calculus But I can't see you out. Hey G. Mulish you know, and then you get up and you're like Mulish make it love for, what's the first letter of the alphabet? You can't remember anything. I know, it's like,

B.C. Like, like doing calculus, but you get three plus six wrong when you're trying to figure out. Exactly. It's too simple. Anyways, this one's said baseball. It's nine.

Nine, by the way. Nine, what? Three plus six. Oh, oh, thank you, by the way. Nine. Nine what? Three plus six. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Thank you.

I haven't been doing my addition flashcards. Not quick to jump. My hot note, out from Politico, Trump's being continuously advised to purchase just this department of essentially anyone that was a part of the Mueller probe. Of course, we've been seeing this happening one by one, but now we're starting to get a more acute idea, I think, of who is pushing this effort and how exactly. The purge saw spike this month with the four stone prosecutors that were overrun and effectively ousted by bar after issuing a sentencing guideline that was fully precedented, as we've talked about. And three of the four of those prosecutors had worked for Mueller.

So we talked about this a little bit earlier in the show. It's hard to imagine that them being asked it essentially and then replaced by someone who still recommended the same sentencing that they did. Kind of begs the question, were they just being retaliated against? Was this because they were so-called Mueller holdovers? And pro-Trump figures and friends are really pushing this narrative that Trump ought to keep pushing people out. That are those Mueller holdovers. After the Stone debacle conservative blogger, Wil Chamberlain said,

it's totally unclear to me why any members of the Mueller team need to remain in the Trump DOJ. And normally it'd be like, you know, who cares what these crazy media figures believe, but Trump cares and he really cares, and he's playing to his base consistently. He listens to these insane people shouting on television way more than I think he does as advisors at this point, and that's kind of the question

that this political piece is posturing is. How, it's very scary, right, that he's not, not only is he listening to advisors that are shitty, but he's also not even listening to advisors sometimes and more so just trying to play to these people who are incredibly radical and more less entertainers honestly and just saying the craziest shit and that's kind of I think the the the question that this article poses is what's beginning what? Is it Trump's crazy words making these people, you know, say that he needs to keep doing this stuff? Or is it these people saying this crazy shit and supporting him, making Trump do that stuff? And chicken in the egg.

Right, either way though, there's a feedback loop and there's a current that we're stuck in right now. And that's really scary because they're just emboldening his fascist-esque retaliatory actions, a lot of which he's continuing to do, and those sorts of things are increasing. They're gonna just like, well, you know how he does. Right, exactly. The vibe.

Yeah, it seems like any sort of person that isn't maybe out there shouting in the streets, oh, rest them, lock them up. That's how they feel, yeah. This is just what he does. And then if they're not saying that, then they're the people who are yelling, yeah, get them

Potomain jails really scary fascia shit and the most criticism He's allegedly getting is his a g That's like yeah, I kind of wish he wouldn't tweet so much. That's pretty much all he's getting Right and the question is still unanswered yet if he's really even getting that criticism Or if that was some kind of weird sort of like staged PR thing and but then on the other side People are just barbarically cheering for this shit So they're literally louder than any criticism

He might even slightly be facing by people he remotely trusts and he's in the palm of his reactionary ill-informed base right now So the article just does a good job of laying out various different pundits and I don't even know if it's fair to call them that they're just Crazy conservatives really. I don't even want to call them conservatives. It's conservative in the worst new age sense filled with white nationalism and xenophobia and greed way more greed than we've seen Ever it feels and I don't really know what, you know, how do you like stop that? I think that's kind of the next question is, are it, are his

advisor is going to, at any point, think that that feedback loop needs to stop between what he's doing and people who are the furthest thing from elected or appointed officials that could possibly be telling me to do shit. Yeah, exactly. And I'm afraid that my hot note does not provide the answer. Just more questions. We're going to have a lot of those. Yeah. And I guess kind of a content warning.

This isn't full of a lot of hope. My hot note. And usually they are. So just want to let you know. But we got Malcolm Nance at the end to do cleanup. So that's why I wanted to put the fantasy indictment leak and sabotage before this so that I have less time between what I have to say and what Malcolm Nance is going to say so that you could feel better sooner. I'm having a really hard time watching the systematic dismantling of our institutions by this administration. Since Trump took office, he's been dismantling protections for the rule of law from all sides, starting after the election and before

he was sworn in. It's been happening so slowly, most of us haven't been able to see the onslaught in as a big picture. We just get bits and pieces as time goes by that are subsumed in a fire hose of news and scandals designed to keep us disoriented, angry, and confused. We can start with Sally Yates. She was removed. When she did her run over to the White House to say, you know, don't hire Flynn or fire Flynn, I should say. And she was removed.

Then we have the firing of Jim Comey. And then shortly after that, we have the targeting of the Comey 5, which includes Jim Baker, who was removed from his job. McCabe, we know what happened to him. Bodich was moved. Rabicki and Goddess were both moved around and put into different positions so that they were no longer looking into Russia as Russia experts,

or in a place where they could influence anything that might harm Trump and his administration. And then of course, we have Bente, who was our sixth beetle. He was also moved. And then of course we have the Mueller investigation. We have Trump trying to fire Mueller twice. And then we have Trump trying to limit the scope of Mueller's investigation by sending Lewandowski to tell Jeff Sessions to unrecuse himself and to only look at future elections, not 2016. Then we have his ongoing targeting of the press, which has been happening since he's been doing this since before he's president. Then, of course, he hired close associates of his at the IRS, at the IRS Commissioner and the IRS General Counsel, both of which I think profit from owning and renting out Trump properties to protect and provide

a shield against his tax returns coming out. Then after that he confirmed Bill Barr, and then very shortly after that a bunch of investigations stopped, and particularly ones that were referred by Mueller. And then we have the mischaracterization of the Mueller findings when when Barr comes out with his with his four-page letter and of course Mueller is so by the book that he you know He writes a letter in response, which is our equivalent of a million man March That's that's that's that's Mueller going ballistic is writing a letter Barup then appoints Durham to investigate the investigation

he's the US attorney from Connecticut and investigation. He's the US attorney from Connecticut. And then he seeks the inspector general's inspector general on anything having to do with Russia. So there were all those inspector general investigations into McCabe and Komi and the Russia and opening the Russian investigation of Pfizer staff, like everything that you can think of that had to do with 2016 that might threaten the legitimacy of Trump's election results. And then we have Trump giving bar cart blanche to declassify whatever he likes. Giving him the keys to the kingdom, the declassification kingdom as it were. And we have the investigations in McCabe and Comey, additional criminal investigations and in McCabe and Comey. And we have him targeting Page and Struck who both worked on on the Russia investigation. Then he tasked Mulvaney with removing disloyal government employees by moving their jobs across the country. Gosh,

never heard of anything like that. And then he attacked the whistleblower. And in the Ukraine scandal. And not only did he attack the whistleblower, but he fired Vindamine and his brother in Sonland, which has a chilling, if not freezing effect, on future whistleblowers, who might come out when all of this starts to fall apart, which it has. Then we have the stone debacle, where Trump's mad about stone seven to nine-year

sentencing recommendation has bargo in and make a much lower recommendation. And then, of course, bar is tasking U.S. attorneys with other political errands, such as reopening investigations into Komi, and allowing for all of the Rudy information to come in directly to the Department of Justice. Then we have Bars releasing a memo saying, only he can approve investigations into presidential campaigns. And then, of course, Trump fires the Director of National Intelligence over a briefing that

Russia is interfering in the elections again. And then he installed a sick event at the head of national intelligence over a briefing that Russia is interfering in the elections again and then he installed a sick event at the head of the intelligence agencies who has no intelligence experience and he rehired the criminal mackity to purge all agencies of disloyal government employees and all the while packing the court with loyalists and paying off Republican Congress people and senators who support him. So we are no longer at a point where we should be worried about the collapse of the rule of law. It's happened. He bought his way out of impeachment. He argues in court that he can't be investigated because he's the president. We aren't allowed to indict him because of the Office of Legal Counsel memo. And now Trump is trying to take away our last best hope of a check on his authoritarianism.

He's allowing Russia to assist him in the next election by having McConnell shoot down 10 election security bills and intentionally denying Russia an attack because they favor him. And he's already begun to pave the way of crying foul if he's beaten in November. He's saying Russia is conspiring with the Democrats. And he's weakened every check on the executive, the courts, the Congress, the Senate, the intelligence community, impeachment, the Department of Justice, and now the vote, our last hope. If he wins in November, the scotus is lost forever. I don't see a way back from that. Our only chance to do anything is to show up in such massive numbers that we outnumber

the cheat. So don't sit this one out. Don't write in your candidate because they didn't win and stop attacking other Democrats because they like a different candidate That's a lot to say about that. Yes incredibly bleak very well-restraided, but incredibly bleak. Yeah, sorry about that No, it's okay. I was halfway through writing it like when am I gonna turn this around? I'm not right I mean, I what you're listing out is the actions of a man and administration that is going to consolidate power and reactions of a man and administration that is going to consolidate power and maximize executive power in any possible way that they conceivably can.

Just continuing to pump your picks into the positions that would usually hold those things accountable and keep creating new ways, try trying to keep creating new ways to do that. I left out the Federal Election Commission. Jane Y. Trab can't do anything. Can't open an investigation because she doesn't have a quorum and she can't get one unless Trump's a Trump appoints federal election commissioners. And that would require also a Mitch McConnell Senate approval confirmation. Right.

So that's not going to happen. Right. So every check on him has been infiltrated and destroyed. Yeah. I think, I mean, if anybody thought that there was any way back from this other than getting him out of office, you know, I think at this point, you would know that you were mistaken in thinking that because it's only going to keep going if he's still in the office. Get him out. And I'm also thinking we need to prioritize politicians who are very

outspoken about separation of powers from here on out for the rest of our republic. Judges, local judges, like fucking this can't continue to be acceptable in any way whatsoever. And we need to flip the Senate so that we can pass legislation to give these ethical norms some teeth. Exactly. And create laws and pass constitutional amendments if we need to, I know that's really hard

and requires an insane threshold. But get the biggest threshold we can get right now or the highest number of Democrats as we can in the Congress right now. So we can shore up the Constitution and the courts and all of the institutions that serve to protect the separation of power so that when the Republicans inevitably get back in again, because they

will, that's just how the pendulum works, they don't have as easy of a time doing what they're doing right now. Yeah, and also, I've been so focused on presidential politics right now, like you said, flipping the Senate is really important. The good news is there are the people running against Republicans right now on the Senate are raising a lot of money, which is great. But yeah, particularly Amy McGrath who's running against Mitch McConnell, if you're in Kentucky, don't eat her. Yes. Yes. And if you're not, donate to her. Totally. Yeah.

All right, we'll be right back to talk to Malcolm Dance about all of this. You won't want to miss it. So stay with us. Hey, everybody, it's A.G. And one of the things I love about doing research from Mola Shoe wrote is the further you dig into a story, the more layers you uncover. And that's part of what I love about the puzzle game, Best Fiends. Because the more I play, the more fun it gets. Reaching each new level feels like uncovering a new layer in a story, and once you get to take part in it, it's awesome.

And the best part is, the longer you play Best Fiends, the more exciting it gets. Best Fiends is amazingly fun, so amazingly fun game that is free to download the app, and Best Fiends combines an exciting story with challenging puzzles that engage your brain, but it's a casual game that anyone can play, which is good for me because I am not a gamer. That is like what I am not. If there's a list of things I am not, a gamer is it. But it's a five star rated game, it has bright, vibrant design, fun characters, colors, calming, it's wonderful, they have great puzzles, it's very relaxing, so it's nice to take a break. And you can collect tons of characters.

You can level them up. And the great thing is you can spend as much or a little time as you want in the game. I'm now on level 90-something, which I just, I love it. Whenever I need a break from politics, I just play it. And they have thousands of levels already with new levels of events and characters added every month, It's always fresh.

And it doesn't require the internet to play, so I can play it on the plane or on the subway or the metro. So with over 100 million downloads and tons of five-star reviews, Best Fiends is a must play. So download Best Fiends free on the Apple App Store or Google Play. That's friends without the R Best Fiends. So joining us today for the interview, he has over 36 years of intelligence experience,

including Russian cyber crimes. He's a four-time New York Times best-selling author, senior chief, MSNBC contributor and Jedi master. Please welcome Malcolm Nance back to the show. Malcolm, thanks for coming back on Mullergy Road. It's my pleasure. I haven't seen you since I think our dinner at Politicon. That was a lot of fun.

So I appreciate you coming on. And every day since I've wondered when you're going to change the name of your show. Well, maybe not now. Because well, okay, so it appears what we've known all along Russia is attacking our 2020 election on behalf of Trump. And that has been briefed to the House Intelligence community. And it appears that you know, somebody ran and told Trump and he got mad and now Rick Grinnell is going to be the director of national intelligence. Folks within these agencies have said this is a coincidence. You know, the removal of the DNI and the ousting of pretty much anyone

in the DOJ who had anything to do with the initial Russia investigation. What do you think about this? Well, for all your listeners, if any of you know me, there's this dictum that I call Nance's Law, and Nance's Law, the full name is Nance's Law Law of Intelligence Kismet. And that means that the phrase coincidence, coincidence takes a lot of planning. That's Nancy's Law, right? There is no such thing as coincidence in my world and the intelligence world. That went away with Ian Fleming's, once his happenstance twice as coincidence, three times as enemy action. Now, twice as enemy action.

So, these things that we're seeing now with Donald Trump and putting in Ambassador Grinnell to head in a dual-hatted role, Director of National Intelligence, it's just not going to happen because you cannot wear the hat of US ambassador to Germany, our third largest partner, and then try to do this job. This is a full-time job. Number two, just reading him in to the classified programs would take him about two weeks. And I mean, that's if they just handed each folder in him and let him read it for five minutes. I mean this job requires one intelligence professionalism to the ability to know what you're reading and three knowing what you're reading and understanding how that works within the apparatus of

18 intelligence agencies. So if he's thinking that he's just going to go to cocktail parties and call himself, you know, director of national and acting director of national intelligence, well he has better know why the Coast Guard is out off of Columbia boarding Colombian drug smuggling submarines. And why, you know, the production of ball bearings in southwestern China may or may not be related to an invasion of Taiwan. This guy doesn't have it. He has a political hat.

He's coming in as a commissar. And I think it's gonna be hilarious trying to hear him explain things, you know, considering that all he is proving himself to be in Germany was someone that the Germans themselves thought should have his credential script and set back to the United States so that they wouldn't have to deal with him. We'd reported on that as well. And the concern here is, you know, first of all, for our listeners who don't know, the

Office of Director of National Intelligence was created after 9-11 to help coordinate intelligence amongst those 18 intelligence agencies, including the DNI, ODNI. And every single person who's headed up that operation has had multiple decades of experience, either in intelligence or in the military. And so this not only weekends are 2020 election security, but also doesn't it weaken all terrorist issues, all terrorism issues? Yeah, it weakens virtually everything the United States is doing because we don't have a single decision maker who is up there helping, you know, us move the lines of analysis and operations

between the 18 intelligence agencies. The reason this was done most, because for a long while while the director of the CIA acted as sort of the clearinghouse for other agencies because human intelligence and CIA operations were so prevalent. Then in post-9-11 world we found that you know FBI law enforcement, signals intelligence, analytical processes that were coming from the State Department, Bureau of Intelligence and Research. These things were not being factored together to give us a full spectrum picture of the bad guys. And it was necessary that the president have someone who could do all of that

while the director of the CIA went out and carried out human intelligence operations against the bad guys. What you're having now is you've got a cocktail party guy who is going to be filling that job so Donald Trump can gain control of intelligence and then lies to the nation and withhold information that may not, that may group or not benefit him politically. What that will do, and I said this in the news media all the time, that will kill people. And what's amazing is, like I said, I was just in a radio program where we had calling people, we had people who literally were saying, we can't trust you at the top.

You know, the intelligence community doesn't make decisions. The consumer of intelligence, the National Security Council, the Congress, the White House, the President, they make the decisions. And those decisions by national decision makers are supposed to be formed on the basis of their ability to read and then before accept briefings. And to understand that what we give you is the fast knowledge of the collective American information experience that has been running non-stop since the culprers firing in 1776.

Donald Trump does not believe in that. He believes Vladimir Putin over our own intelligence agencies. He believes North Korea a communist murdering dictator over our intelligence community. And you know, this has been said for a very long time. He said he thinks spies are dirty because he runs the nation like a mafia state. So, you know, to him, NSA collection against ISIS operatives in, you know, in Coruscant,

in, you know, a Sada Baud, Afghanistan to him is the equivalent of the FBI doing wiretaps on his staff. And that's insane. What tells me is the mind who should not be anywhere near anything that has to do with the control of this apparatus. So now and like you said,

not only do we have someone with no intelligence experience in Grinnell leading the intelligence community. Meanwhile meanwhile we have Durham, someone else with no experience trying to investigate the sharing of intelligence that led to the work product that Russia interfered in our elections. I mean, how can you even send somebody? You put somebody in charge who doesn't know anything and you put somebody investigating it who doesn't know anything. I know it's absolutely screwy isn't it? Um, and this is what happens. What you're seeing here with Donald Trump is quite simple. You are watching him essentially trying to build bar um, the intelligence community. He doesn't care anything about the intelligence product.

He doesn't care about that at all. All he cares about is that information which could be damaging to him that he has the ability to control it and take it apart. And he doesn't want it being shared with what he thinks are his political enemies. Here's the best part about this. I mean with Durham, Durham is at least working within the parameters of the Justice Department guidelines. And here's what he's going to find, nothing. And you know, he found that out with the FBI, right? And you know, what you're going to find here with Donald Trump is trying to billbar this

process. bar of this process, he was angry simply because after for got this three years he does not understand what Congress does. He was angry that Adam Schiff was in the room for a congressional briefing and that by law, the intelligence community must tell the gang of the exact same intelligence, the president of the United States should get. He doesn't understand it.

It's like standing in front of somebody whose house is on fire, and he's upset that they're using water to spray onto the fire because he doesn't think firemen are working in his interest. It's crazy talk. And what he is doing is he's now trying to pull a solid boot. Look, Putin controlled the intelligence community when he came in. But the first thing he did was try to get control of the news media and he did that. And he just started putting his own political commissar in the news media and they stop doing information to the public and they started playing, you know, Balalaika shows. So Donald Trump instincts, I can do this with Bill Barr and Justice,

I can do it to the intelligence community. The problem with the intelligence community is they're not going to be daunting. If something that's dirty about the president of the United States or Russian intelligence comes across, my death is going up the chain of command. It's very hard to stop plot product within the intelligence system because it is shared on a hundred different servers as part of a cloud network, right? Which means it doesn't go away, it can't be a race and it's going to make its way out to Congress at some point. Now, how do you think the IC is going to respond to this specifically to the order that

in order to investigate the president for, you know, for election stuff that, you know, it has to be handwritten permission from Bill Barr. How do you think the I.C. is going to respond to that? Well, first off, you know, it was always sort of that way. Yeah. An investigation into the president of the United States required a judges court order. And let me tell you something, there was a bit difference between bill bar

and the constitution of the United States, right? And so if I'm, you know, if I'm running my operations and I come across some incidental collection, let's say I have Igor Pregozian talking to the director of the FSB, and that's passed on to me through an allied intelligence agency and they say, oh hell yeah, we're going to put Donald Trump back into office. You know what? That stuff's getting reported. It's going to get transcribed and it's going into the big system. Will it involve an investigation of the president of the United States? That is outside

the ability to collect. I mean, the IT does its job, right? They're like firemen. They are constantly either training, operating or running out and putting out fires. What you can't do is say, well, you cannot answer 911 calls anymore. You can say it, but guess what's going to happen? They're going out on the next call. So Bill Barr can only try for the next nine months to try to put his thumb on the scale of justice. But you know what? I don't know if you noticed it, that scale has two sides, and when you slam down on one side, the other side generally comes up and smacks you in the back of the head. Awesome.

Well, that makes me feel a little bit better about our men and women in the intelligence community keeping us safe. I really appreciate you coming on and talking to us today. Any final thoughts about this Russia 2 know, Russia to election Boogellou? Well, it's not like we, it's not like I didn't write three books on this. And the, you know, the plot to betray, the plot to hack America, the plot to destroy democracy and the plot to betray America, which is about team Trump doing this in national security in order to get elected again. These people are now operating like Mafio C if I can quote Sarah Tenziore. They are criminal cruxocracy operating and

pretending they're a government. And in doing that, they think they are the masters of the universe and that they can just screw with power and things will bend to their will. Well, the other part of democracy is it's not only messy, it's shared information. So, you know, if they don't want a palette of raw intelligence dropping off in front of the New York Times, they would stop this silliness, but they're not. So a palette of information is going to drop in front of the New York Times Awesome. All right. Well, that's good to know and thank you for

You know talking we off the ledge MSNBC contributor intel expert in Russia cyber crimes and everything else New York Times best selling author Senior chief Malcolm Nance. Thank you again for coming on Miller. She wrote. I appreciate it All right, bless you, bye-bye. All right, everybody, that is our show. Thank you so much for listening. Thanks for being patrons of your patron. Thank you for subscribing. If you can't be a patron right now, I totally understand.

Gotta send that money off to your favorite candidate. And gosh, anybody have any final thoughts? I have a final thought. Yeah, go for it. Some of you have heard I'm working on a new separate podcast. That's going to be me and my co-host Steve Schistick, who made a appearance on Mola Shirod. And it was quite the controversial appearance. But the podcast is called I Disagree.

And the premise is that Steve and I disagree on a lot of things as you saw in a few minutes of everything. Pretty much everything. Yep. And we get other comics on and we talk about Topics, you know that are typical Disagreeable topics and it's more lighthearted and less news heavy But it's it's ideally going to be an example of how people can disagree with each other or talk about tough things or We'll talk about how people can't talk about things and

It's an enjoyable examination, I guess of having conflict with another person. I mean enjoyable examination, I guess, of having conflict with another person. I need to buy comics. Yes, cool. But anyway, we are releasing next week. So if you want to get in on the action early, you can follow us on Twitter at the I Disagree pod. And we also have a Patreon set up for patreon.com slash I disagree podcast where you get to submit topics for us to disagree on.

And I'm very excited for it. And I'm not going anywhere at all. This is just a side project where I get to, you know, freak out incredibly depressing news for an hour of my life. Right, like I do the awful D&D, I do awful neutral. Yes, you're doing this. You're just running yours. I don't run mine.

Exactly. Red. So yeah, thanks. We'd love for you to check it out. Yay. Yay. My final thought is just that we are the primaries are rolling on, please give your money or your time.

Shit's getting real. It is real. You know, shit is real. It got real. It got real. We're in the shit pot right now. We're in a boiling pot of shit. Oh, so.

Yeah. You're welcome for that visual and swap of a 10th of a turtle sten stench is what that remote fog of eternal Stench Go friend. So yeah, I'm gonna go campus a little bit more and Maybe you can do that do that yep, and if you if you unless your state is already gone Yeah, yeah, I mean if you're in a country you can still phone bank for your candidate. Yeah, mm-hmm totally do it Can you democracy you can right you can make calls from another state, right? Mm-hmm candidate. Yeah, totally. Do it. Can you democracy?

You can, right? You can make calls from another state, right? Mm-hmm. Cool. Yep. Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. See you soon, Street. OK. Anyway, thank you all so much for listening. Please take care of yourself. Take care of each other. I've been A.G.

I've been Jordan Coburn. I've been Amanda Reader. And this is Mollarshi Road. Mollarshi Road is executive produced and directed by A.G. and Jordan Coburn with engineering and editing by Mackenzie Mazell and Starburn's Industries. Our Marketing Manager, Production and Social Media Direction is by Amanda Reader, fact checking your research by A.G., Jordan Coburn, and Amanda Reader, and our knowledgeable

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