Jack - Russian Roulette (Ch. 1-4)

Episode Date: March 21, 2018

Our first installment of the “Russian Roulette” book series is here! Today we discuss chapters 1-4.  This book covers the incredible, harrowing account of how American democracy was hacked by Moscow as part of a covert operation to influence the U.S. election and help Donald Trump gain the presidency. Enjoy!

Hi, I'm Harry Lickman, host of Talking Feds. Around table, the brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day. Each Monday, I'm joined by a slate of Feds favorites at new voices to break down the headlines and give the insider's view of what's going on in Washington and beyond. Plus, sidebar is explaining important legal concepts read by your favorite celebrities. Find Talking Feds where ever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening to Muller She Wrote. The She in Muller She Wrote is no accident. Did you know we

are 100% women owned and operated? Every single person that helps make this podcast possible identifies as a woman. Our creative and web design, our engineer, our producer, our editors and digital media manager, our agent, our ad execs, our merchandising manager, and even the USPS clerk who helps us with shipping and our PO box, all women and all LGBTQ plus allies. We will continue to employ and partner with women as our podcast grows, but we could use your help.

So please support women in podcasting by visiting mullershearote.com and become a patron today. So to be clear Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for? I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening,

I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist.

Applause. Hello. Welcome to Mola Shirod. We're doing a mini-series on the book, Russian Roulette by Michael Isikoff and David Korn. This is an amazing book. I highly recommend you pick it up. I'm A.G. I'm your anonymous host, because I know how to hatch act, so that's what anything. With me always is Jordan Coburn. Hello. And we have Jelisa Johnson. Hey, what's that? And today we're going to discuss, which

is get right into it. Let's just get right into the book and see how see where we go. All right, so the introduction, even everything in this book is just so well written, it's easy to read and the information is boundless and insane. So, so the introduction is a scene, it's a scene in the Oval Office where the Obama intelligence community is basically breathing Trump on Russian interference. Then they all leave and Komi briefs him on the p-tap. So it's all a guy's like Brennan and Clapper and everybody and they're like look the Russians interfered in our elections. They meddled. They helped you. We're gonna go now and then Komi briefed them on the p-tap and Komi says look it's not been proven. You're not

under investigation but this could get out and I wanted you to know about it. Yeah. Because I'm not a dick. Right. Now, holding it over your head or anything. Yeah, no judgment. No judgment. All these things. I would totally be jealous. I would totally be jealous. I would even be holding the report by a corner

in between two fingers. This is for you. Oh, you. So, Komi leaves and then Trump is pissed and he's like, this is bullshit. He's yelling. He is incensed. He is angry as F. like, this is bullshit. Like he's yelling. He is incensed. He is angry as F.

And he got really paranoid. He started immediately thinking everyone was out to get him. Everyone was out to undermine his authority as president. This was like his first act of low self-esteem in office. Oh yeah. That's what they should be called. Act of low self-esteem. A memoir.

A ring of grievances and acts of low self-esteem. He thought Komi was out to get him. Like Komi was trying to help him and be his homie because Komi is a homie. But he thought he was out to, you guys are both out. Mm. But he was like, damn he's like, he's like, he bullshit. They're out to get me.

They're all out to undermine my authority. I'm the winner. Mm. Like I can just see him like stomping around in a diaper. Like, anyway. He repeated, like, he'd won fair and square, you know? I won this fair and square. The Russians didn't help me.

No sir, you know, just a big giant butthole. So that was kind of the introduction. It just sets up the scene for the whole book. Like, we can fun hole. Like, this is our president. And what's interesting is that in that little scene with Obama's intelligence community briefing Trump on Russia interference, the Komi thing,

the P tape, the steel dossiers in there, Trump having no self-esteem, yelling bullshit, being paranoid, thinking Komi's out to get him, thinking everybody's out to undermine his authority and screaming that he won fair and square, refusing to say that Russia helped him at all. That is a really good kind of wrap up of everything, like a tiny little tip of an iceberg of just,

this just see a bubbling craziness underneath. And that's what the rest of the book is. And we'll go right into chapter one. So chapter one focuses on Trump's trip to Moscow for the Miss Universe pageant in 2013, okay? This was planned by the Alligarovs, Amin and his dad. He's like this, he's a singer, he's from Azerbaijan, he's a shitty singer. And his dad is a terrible person and Goldstone. Goldstone. Do you remember Jesse's song? I don't think you were there though. I don't think I was. I wish I was. I wish Jessie was here. Yeah. Such a good episode.

Goldstone. Yeah, it just sounds like a Bond song. So this was all planned by the Alagarovs and Goldstone, okay? And Trump was in on it to get a tower built and meet rich dudes and be around rich Russians. And Goldstone and Alagarov were in it to get help for his dying career pretty much. Because Lady Gaga was the musical act for the previous Miss Universe pageant.

Right, which is weird because Putin is so anti-gain, she's very pro. She's super pro. Yeah, LGBTQ, yeah. Yeah. which is weird because Putin is so anti-Gay and she's very pro. She's super pro. LGBTQ. Yeah. So, this pageant took place around the time when Russia was passing all of its anti-Gay laws.

So, I think it was maybe Gaga got in but Gaga got in before that. Gaga, Gaga, Gaga. Before that, like the whole, I mean, he was always anti-Gay, but he didn't start passing the anti-Gay laws until right around the time of this Pageant a few weeks before the pageant in a quote in the southern city of vulga guard vulga grad gay man's naked body was found in a courtyard his skull was smashed and his genital scarred by beer bottles Yeah, the atmosphere was ugly and brutal on quote. I'm almost crying right now. Yeah, absolutely horrible to think about and brutal, unquote. Like, I'm almost crying right now.

Yeah. Absolutely horrible to think about. I really, that's when pussy riot became a thing, right? Yeah, like they were bigger on that time. And that was just kind of the mood over there. Even during the pageant, the NBC logo, they've made it in black and white, so it didn't seem gay.

Yeah, whoa. It's not crazy, and NBC went along with it. And is that kind of still how it is right now? I mean, it's was 2013. So it's not that long ago. In Russia? Yeah, absolutely. Well, he gets really in, we'll talk about this more

as we do more of the in-depth book coverage. But he has like super, super orthodox Christian monks that advise him essentially on everything. And he's been noted to say still disparaging things about Obama referring to him as the N word. Like, wow. He's not only, and I don't think people realize,

he's not only a very corrupt politician, but he's also just very bigoted racially in. Nationalist, yeah. Yeah, he's like an overall like super, just because he trolls on the West. That doesn't mean he doesn't represent a lot of the really bad parts That the west got a lot of devil like qualities like is there anything really nice about poo than that we know no I mean he's no he wears nice suits. Yeah, I guess when you're like he's

Dresdening so much money. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he probably get really nice Yeah, he's an evil guy and he's he's diabolical. Yeah. Um, and it was the the the anti gay sentiment was so bad that both of the hosts quit. Everybody was calling for the Russia for the pageant to pull out a Moscow Trump was losing his mind like, but I want to make friends with Moscow. And uh, he so he's like, no, what do I do? What do I do? So the pageant was kind of saved when this openly gay reporter from NBC said he would do the hosting job after the other two hosts quit. And he's like, I'm openly gay, I'm going to do this, I'm going to go, yay, and we're going. Yeah. And they got Mel B from The Spice Girls. She's, which one was she? Super, super relevant,

super relevant, um, relevant spice is what she, relevant spice. So the day of the pageant, a Russian off offered Schiller, that's Keith Schiller, that's a bodyguard for Trump. Five women and Schiller dismissed the offer. Trump stayed at the Ritz Carlton in the presidential suite. And that's where the Obama stayed a couple years before. Right. Um, then after that, they dined at Nobu. I like Nobu.

Nobu was going to be a judge at the pageant. Apparently, Nobu was one of the founders of Nobu. Obviously, he's the chef and then D'Nero was the other. Nobu D'Nero. Who hates Trump. Proper D'Nero was a judge in the Miss Universe pageant. No, Nobu was.

Oh, and me. Yeah, I don't know why I heard it. OK. Thank you. He ducked into me. Oh, my know why I heard you. Okay. Okay. He's talking to me. Oh my God, you're adorable. Then after Nobu, Trump went to the theater where the pageant is held to do what he does

at every pageant. There's a clause in every one of his contracts that says he can override the judges and dismiss any contestant. No. He doesn't like. There's a special room set up for him. His rider has white tic-tacs, diacocke, nutter butters, rolled, not folded, hand towels,

sent-free soap, and the room must be a maculet. In the room, Trump watches the tapes of the pageant contestants, particularly gown and swimsuit. And he reviews. Okay. And he reviews, those are the best parts.

Oh yeah, I guess. I guess highlights. And he reviews the judge's decisions. And he would toss out finalists and replace them with women he preferred. Some pageant worker said if there were too many women of color, he would make changes saying they were too ethnic or too dark skinned.

Oh, Trump. He loved Eastern European women. Obviously. He was also known to toss women out that rejected his advances.. Oh, Trump. He loved Eastern European women. Obviously. He was also known to toss women out that rejected his advances. Of course, yes. Of course. And if you're black and you reject him, woo, good luck. Yeah, good of you.

He wouldn't come on to if you were black. That's not true. Yeah, that's true. Let's not be outrageous. So he'd just get angry at you for being attracted to you. Yeah. He would be mad at you for finding you attracted. Oh my God, so true.

He came and goath in Schindler's list when he's mad at you for finding you a track. Oh my God. So true. He came and goath in Schindler's list when he's mad at the, at the, it is, it is Jewish made for being attractive. So he takes this shit out of her. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen Schindler's list.

I know. I was looking in your eyes like. So you're a scary schedule. I've never seen it. Yeah. We have to have a night. Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah.

We'll do a mini-zone. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah.

We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone.

Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah. We'll do a mini-zone. Yeah. We, please. He was almost even desperate. He tweeted earlier that maybe Putin and I will be best friends. I remember that. He waited for Putin's assistant to call. Like the whole, like just did he call? Did he call?

It was just really, really pathetic. And people remember that clearly. Like, where's Putin? I want to meet Putin. It reminds me of that Carmen song. Like, I've been waiting all day for you to call me, baby. Don't get up. Don't get up. He would never do meet Putin. It reminds me of that Carmen song. Like, I've been waiting all day for you to call me baby. Don't get up. Don't get up.

He would never divorce Putin. That's his true love. Oh yeah. Yeah, that thing so. That's what I'm just singing. I apologize. No. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh yeah, I love it. Yeah. That's a good old 2010s reference. Oh, is that that old? I think that's like the old new to me. Oh, no, no. 2010s as in what we 2010s reference. Oh, is that that old? I think that's like Oh, no, no, no, 2010s as in what we're in currently. Oh, he said yeah, yeah, I wanted to keep it, you know, Curve oh no, yeah, that's very

great. Counterbalance is that a spice girl was a pageant. Yeah, it almost threw me off to get you out. You're like, who are you even? I don't even know you. You're like Carmen, Carmen, I'm thinking of like old like Casablanca like films. Yeah, that's hilarious. All right, you guys on to chapter two. This is called pissing off Putin, which apparently is very easy to do. So this chapter opens with the poisoning death of Litvenianko.

He's a former Russian spy. He was talked into tea with two former Russian intelligence officers in the UK. This was in November of 2008. Litven Yanko, as he was dying, he said, quote, you may succeed in silencing one man, but the howl of protest will ring in your ears, Mr. Putin, for the rest of your life. May God forgive you for what you've done, not only to me, but to beloved Russia." It's crazy.

It's pretty heavy. A British doctor figured out it was Pallonium 210, and that's a substance pretty much wholly controlled by the Cremlin. Scotland Yard investigated, and they put a man named Christopher Steele on the case because he's the Russia expert from MI6 and so as we all know Christopher Steele would come in handy. Oh yeah. In many cases. Steele put it at about 80 to 90%

that the poisoning was ordered by Putin or Patrochev. Patrochev is the head of the FSB at the time. He's not anymore, but he was back then. Steele's allegations were later corroborated by an official British government inquiry. So he was correct. Yeah. The CIA in the US was given Steel's report,

and they seemed like, your problem, not ours. Peace. Not realizing we would soon be under attack by putting ourselves and Christopher Steel would be there to help us. So, that's interesting. Now, we'll shift gears in chapter two and talk about the Russian reset. This starts to talk about kind of what Obama's role was in diplomacy with Russia at the time. Right.

Mick Falle was Obama's point man on the reset reset and he was discouraged by Casparov. That's the chess champion. He's a chess guy. He's kind of an anti-Putin opposition guy over in Russia. Friend of McFall's chess gem, chess master. And he, everyone including Casparov, kind of warned McCall or McFall, like, don't do this. You can't work with Putin. I know Medvedyev is the president,

but Putin still runs things. And he's old school, he's Soviet, he's Cold War. He's from the KGB. Casparov said it would end badly. And warned McFall, don't do it. And turns out he was right. But he didn't know at the time. Bush had tried the same thing and failed. But Obama wanted to go't do it. It turns out he was right. Yeah, he didn't know at the time But I should try the same thing and failed

But Obama wanted to go ahead with it and Hillary Clinton was in charge of it. She's secretary of state That's right. So she ended up meeting with Lavrov. That's her counterpart in Russia in 2009 And she gave him a present and this is so dumb It was a wrapped green box and he opened it up and it was a reset button right? Like I like you know the easy button from obvious depots or staples or whatever? But it said reset on it in Russian, but it was incorrect. The translation was wrong. It actually said overcharge.

That's hilarious. Won't, won't, like what a doubt like who thought of that. That was like the... That's a killer. You trying to connect to the youth That's grandma Hillary and her crafting, you know, I'll make a button, you know thing She's so clever. No, she's very clever, but not in that moment needle point would have been better HRC Yeah, I also don't like the joke by the way about people who used to tell Hillary She should get a hobby and needle point. Yeah, really piss me off

Yeah a hobby and needle point that really piss me off. She's just stabbing in the face with that needle. Yeah. Anyway, so that dumb, that was a dumb present. It is working in metaphors is not very respectable. Well, if she just wrote it in the right way, if it said reset in Russian, it would have been a cool joke, right? Still way in the wrong way. I like buttons. I got you a bow.

He's like buttoned. And pop up cards too. Do you like that? I love pop up? Pop up cards. I just don't like the one that's pretty fascinating. Sing it you I don't like yeah So Lavrov doesn't like women either he think he doesn't think women are equals But they hammered out an agreement. They're not we're better. Oh Nice spicy Spice girls Melby hosting hosting the Miss Pet.

Okay. They hammered out an agreement. Obama and Medvedev sign a deal that would allow the US to fly over Russian space to deliver stuff to our troops in Afghanistan. They never let us do that before. Nice! Thanks, Obama.

Yeah, what a deal. I hate to give Obama a hard time, but he was like really pushing hard to make the tiniest little deals and really trying to be over diplomatic with Russia. Yeah. It just would end up biting us in the ass. He had a lot to prove. He really did. He did try very hard.

Lavrov kept asking Hillary to give a guy named Dara Paska a visa, like give my buddy a visa. And apparently he asked like all the time, like more than Trump asked where Putin was at the pageant. Dara Paska was an aluminum magnate at the time and Hillary never acted on it. So never happened. Let's see, Medvedev and Obama also signed an agreement to shrink nuclear arsenals, which is a pretty significant thing. So they did, I think, by 1600 a piece,

like we got rid of some old bombs. Wow. Shrunk our nuclear arsenals. But then, uh-oh, the US intelligence community was monitoring 10 Russia sleeper agents. And the FBI nabbed them in 2010. Whoa. And we did a spy swap.

That was a spy swap was arranged. That's what the show The Americans is based on. Oh snap. By the way, I've never seen it, but I want to. Spy for a spy kind of thing. This particular spy swap in 2010. Oh, okay, wow. And that, like everyone, the FBI was like, shit, what do we do?

We're trying to get good Russian relations with Medvedev, but we just found these sleeper agents who've been here for a decade, and we need to roll them now because one of them's about to leave. What do we do? And he's like, we can't afford to lose him. You got to roll them. So they did. They rolled them all up. And that kind of effed up the, you know, that's the sourd the Russian relations a little bit, but we ended up doing the spice. What do you do? Yeah. Later that year, Bill Clinton would have a speaking engagement in Russia, even though his wife was Secretary of State, that's a little iffy.

Yeah, conflict of entry. You think so? Yeah. One speech was for Renaissance capital, which at the time was promoting a stock offer from Uranium 1, a company that controlled about 20% of Uranium production in the United States. That's right. Rosatem, a Russian nuclear agency, was in a process of purchasing a controlling interest in uranium one, pending approval from a US government agency that Hillary sat on, along

with eight other senior US officials. So that's where the whole uranium one thing comes from. Right. There was... There was zero evidence that Hillary was involved in the deal at all. But Bill's trip to Moscow raised eyebrows about the power couple.

Yeah, that's fair. I can see that. They were just really unaware sometimes of their conflicts of interest. For example, the company chair of Uranium one donated $2.35 million to the Clinton Foundation. Right. Could I point out that even though these are connections

that I think are valid, that there are so many more connections with the Trump administration, it's like, yes, Hillary, likely something shady, even if it was just greed, something went down here. Yeah. And that's true, but also Trump has like 10 times as many occasions with the Russians that are just as shady. So I agree, Uranium-1, like with the Russians that, you know, are just as shady.

So I agree, Uranium One, there's an argument there, but it's like your whole, like, let's prioritize our issues for you. I'm not a big person, I'm not a big one for like, what about is them, which is kind of when you say, like, I wanna talk about this issue and you go, yeah, but what about these? Yeah, they're right, they're right.

They're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right. They're right, they're right, they're right, they're right. They're right, they're right, they're right, they're right. They're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right. They're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're right, they're these? Yeah, right. Dirt from what you were actually talking about. Exactly. Yeah. So I don't, I, yes, obviously the Trump administration has, has its issues. I don't think that that makes this uranium one deal okay. Right. But she didn't win. She's not the president.

It's not more pressing of an issue. Well, it is an issue. Well, it's not because nothing was done improperly, but the appearance was really bad. Absolutely. It was not good appearance. And Bill giving the speech and then the chair giving them $2.35 million to their foundation. It's suspicious, yeah, it looks really, really shady. And I think it should be discussed by itself and not compared to other A-holes that do

worse. If we can just separate the two, yeah, I think that'd be really good, yeah. Exactly. And that way we can argue on the merits of how it stands by itself mutually exclusive for many other event. And just looking at this as itself, there's no evidence she was involved in the deal.

But it just looked bad. It was just bad. Yeah, so the deal was on the up and up, but it looked bad. And the fact that it's uranium freaked everybody out. Exactly. This isn't weapons of great uranium, you guys. They can't make bombs with it.

Okay. And so all these right wingers are saying, you gave a bunch of uranium to Russia. It just sounds like they're gonna have the optics and all that, yeah. Yeah, you can't, this is235, U-238. It's for reactors. That's all it can be used for.

It can't be weaponized. Exactly. It's already enriched. It's shut up. It's crazy how it's like. It would be like if she helped broker a deal for oil or something. Right. I think Trump gets away with so much more.

Oh, yeah. Nearly. And as a massage lady, is it, you know, whatever, Russia, I just think it's sad. Like, whatever she did, I think she should be investigated for any wrong doings, but Trump clearly gets away. Like, the sad is cool.

Yes, but I don't. It's a double standard. But I don't want to, you're right. But I don't want to be little, the fact that she could have done some shady shit. You're right. I don't want to get into what I don't want to go. What about this? Oh, you're right. Yeah, just separate them. Yeah. When I tried to talk about Trump,

right, wingers always say, what about Hillary? Yeah. I don't want to partimentalize them, just address them as separate cases. Right. So when I talk about Hillary, I don't want people to go, what about Trump? Exactly. It's kind of like let's, let's merrily argue these things. Right. Yeah, that's the unfair assumption that people make is the ones that are gonna go against Trump are gonna be doing it because they're also in the same camp that's like, Hillary's the best and never has done anything wrong. Yeah, yeah.

It's, I know me personally and I know you as well and I'm not actually so sure about you just gonna talk about it. But, well, I was gonna say, I was a huge Bernie person. That was very open to criticisms of the Clintons and their management of funds and whatever. But that's not what we're talking about. You're right. You have a lot of it. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter at all.

No. And if we were having a conversation about who would have been an outstanding president between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, the answer is obvious. Obviously. Yes. She had a billion years of experience. She's in Secretary of State. She talked to Putin on many occasions He just talked about Russia. She visited 186 countries. Right. She's an outstanding brilliant woman Yeah, and you know, it's okay to support someone and also criticize Absolutely. You should always buy Obama and I have an Obama tattoo Yeah, it's real. Yeah, it happens. Yeah happens

So yeah, I think we've got like an independent. We've got a we got a progressive and we got a the dem Oh, you know here on the panel. So it's it's just interesting that I just want to be able to talk about these Incidents mutually exclusively from bringing up anyone else as a comparison because What anyone else does doesn't make what we're talking about good or bad? Mm-hmm. You know what I mean? Good point. It is what it is on its own merit a comparison because what anyone else does doesn't make what we're talking about good or bad. You know what I mean? Good point. It is what it is on its own merit and we could judge it solely based on what's legal and

what's not legal, what's morally corrupt and what's not morally correct. Absolutely. Yes, Trump sucks. I think we can all agree with that. Definitely. But yeah, so anyway, no evidence HRC was involved in the deal. She didn't have anything to agree with that. Definitely. But yeah, so anyway, no evidence, HRC was involved in the deal. She didn't have anything to do with it. There were five other agencies that approved this deal.

There's nothing weird or illegal about it. It was just weird that Bill was talking in Russia, and it was weird that the chair of this company donated to the Clinton Foundation. Exactly. To make it look like they were like trying to give her money to get her to make the deal go through. Right.

But she didn't have anything to do with the deal. And if she did, I'm sure they've investigated it or they are investigating it, Mueller is probably looking into it because it's probably a rose in this. And if anybody is going to find out the truth, it's going to be him. Exactly. He just got bigger fish right now. And if it turns out that somebody did something wrong, he's going to find out. He'll find out. Yeah. And he's not Hillary's home boy. You know, he's

just this is home boy. Yeah. It's so funny. He's just this is home boy. But yeah, he's not limited to just looking into Trump. He can look at anything that arises. And that might be part of it. And, and I would feel like he is investigating this because it's part of this story. It would have come up in the Russian investigation. And if he doesn't indict anybody in the Iranian One Deal, that means nobody did that. They're there. They're there. They're there.

They're there. They're there. Exactly. The now-bing of the 10 Russian spies, though, by the FBI added to the US helping topple Putin's dictator buddies around the Arab Spring was happening, right? Oh, yeah. And so we were helping topple all those assholes. And that really pissed Putin off. So that was pretty much the end of the reset.

Putin would return to power the following year, boosted up by Boris Yeltsin, that that F would be gone, and we would be kind of be back to square one, and that's kind of what led to where we are now. Exactly. He's afraid he'd be next. Yeah. So that's chapter two. Very nice. I love this. Great book. Is it how good? Yeah. Thank you. And we're kind of skimming a little along the top. You probably want to read this book.

I mean, there's so many just amazing details. Lots of quotes. The stories are incredible that are in the, that are some of the anecdotes are like, whoa, yeah. Like, whoa. It's a Maya song. Another like, 2000. Yeah.

Three years ago. See, I'm trying to get more current. I like that. Yeah. With my references. We got to watch more, um, what would it be like, Nickat Knight or something like, shut up. To when I was a kid, Nickat Knight was like,. Ed and Father Knows Best and leave it to be her. What is that?

Oh, I know, leave it to be her. We'll have a marathon one day. We'll all catch up on everything. Oh, on every pop culture thing ever. Every single. I love the seven years might be nice. Yeah, I think the 80s are probably better. Okay, the H1s, I love those CNNs.

The H1s, the H1s. Yeah, oh, they're good. The H1s, I love those CNN docs. Yeah, oh they are. They're good, the decade docs. Yeah. Those are good, they're really informative. Yeah. Usually CNN's a little weird, but those are good. Mm-hmm.

Kinda like the 30 for 30. Yes. Yes, CNN are so good. Yeah, so good. Yeah, yeah, we do this sportscast. Yeah. There's this one on like the Chilean corruption when they were filling the sands of the soccer stadiums

with political prisoners. Yes. What? Yeah, isn't that crazys with political prisoners. Yes. Yeah. Isn't that crazy? For him insane. History. Humanity. Yeah.

Insane. Yeah. It never sees to, no one's ever going to stop being a horrible person. Right. It's so shitty. But for every horrible person, there's probably a muller. Well, what sucks is that I don't know any of these horrible people, but they're somehow everywhere. Yeah. Well, we're in a bubble.

I think they're in California. A bubble of just normal people living their lives. I run into stupid people, a lot. Oh, okay. I do. I try to avoid them. I swear if, yeah. I just dodge them.

I guess if they had the resources, that's the only thing that separates them, maybe, from these people that we're talking about, maybe, maybe. All right, we're gonna move on to chapter three. Are we here because Clinton texted us as the name of the chapter? So, Putin won the election, but he totally cheated. They were stuffing ballot boxes,

people got videos of it, opponents were jailed, Hillary Rodden, Hillary, I just call her HRC, questioned the legitimacy of Putin, okay? Tens of thousands of protesters took to the streets in Russia and thus began the grudge Putin would have against Hillary pretty much up until for the rest of her life. It may be why she's never won the presidency. Exactly.

She couldn't beat Obama in 08. I'm going to give her that, but it's probably why she's not president today. Yeah. What if we found out that Putin helped Obama? Would that change everything? No, actually, but the Chinese did hack into the Obama McCain campaign. Okay but they didn't do anything they didn't weaponize it. They just kind of like watched it. They just wanted to see if they could do it. Got it got it. Just

like a ha ha we did it. Yeah and we were supposed to go Uchana you scam me. During our 2012 elections Romney would say that Russia was the number one foreign policy issue of our time, and Obama would mock him for saying it. Right? He was like, you should have, it's al-Qaeda, you dummy. I mean, they're both pretty, and he won that exchange because he was like, what is this?

The 60s old man wake up, right? Come on, kids, it's al-Qaeda. That's what we thought, yeah, we thought Russia was over. Yeah, Romney was, Romney was right yeah because he had good old Joseph Smith was bringing his yeah I still got to see yeah it's so good and you see that and I need to see Hamilton but I say I've never seen Hamilton I don't have 900 spare dollars. Right. Fair enough. Yeah. Maybe we need a go fund, we hear something. Ooh, just for him.

Send us to Hamilton. Ha, ha, ha. Just email, just don't know. It's fine. That was direct relation to the podcast. Yeah. Yeah, just because you're nice, you know. But I just give the girls a vacation.

Nice. All right, so shortly thereafter, the Magnitsky Act was passed. McFallon Obama, we're wary of the Magnitsky Act was passed. McFalano-Bama were wary of it because it could strain Russian relations. Like Obama was like, I don't know if I want to sign the Magnitsky Act. The fucking Magnitsky Act that passed 98 to 2. I think the only person who voted against it was Bernie Sanders, because he said it wasn't starshen.

I was gonna say it wasn't enough. Yeah, that's how Bernie Sanders always votes no. Because it's not enough. It doesn't go far enough. I love that man. He's hilarious. So the Magnitsky Act was passed. McFall and Obama were like, I don't know if I want that. And then McFall later admitted he was wrong. And we needed the Magnitsky Act.

In response, Russia barred the US from adopting Russian children. And Putin began harassing our diplomats and employees at the russian embassy he'd have them followed you haven't a little one of them had his dog poisoned one found his bird dead in his house they would smear shit all over the inside of their apartment uh... mcfall was framed because they basically mobbed him uh... and then when he lashed out the russians got an on video and blasted it out on Russian media. Go and look at this terrible evil of American.

McFall asked Obama several times to protect them at the embassy, but he didn't do anything. He told Kerry, the new secretary of state that Hillary was right, and they were wrong, and the reset was a bad idea. And we need to stop. It's not's not gonna work, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And in 2013, the head of the GRU, Gerazimov, he was the head of the GRU. He put out a Russian memo saying, this is our new style of warfare. It's cyber warfare.

And they had gotten really good at it over the years. And this was their new arsenal. Yeah. And he put out this memo that saying, this is how we do war now. It's not nuclear bombs anymore It's this yeah We didn't want to believe it because we spend so much time investing in the nuclear war that we thought that that would be the next thing

And now we're like oh, this is already 9-11. We're already attacked. Yeah, pretty much all right guys time for chapter 4 This is called you don't know me, but I'm working for a troll farm It just reminds me of that song working on anyway Coleman is that what it is? That's a really old song. That's like beyond me even. Yeah, I was going Tina Turner I thought that's what oh Yeah, stupid I Russian fascist We need to do this parody.

I don't know if we should at all. But Jordan, you got some really good info in chapter four. So I'd love if you went over it for us. Yeah, this is a really great chapter. I really enjoyed reading this. It opens up talking about the scene of Vladimir Putin sitting there at the Miss Universe. I'm sorry, the Sochi Winter Olympics, February 23rd, 2014,

which for those of you that are history with a pouty face. Yes, with a pouty face. He was pouty face because he the previous day, so every, okay, I would imagine our listeners are vaguely familiar with Ukraine and Crimea and in that whole situation essentially, Trump or, sorry, misspoke there. Putin was hoping that the Russia, the pro-Russia forces were going to take Ukraine.

And the day before this day that he was sitting all poutied faced, that is not what happened. Yana Ković abruptly fled Kiev on February 22nd, and then the opposition took over. So Putin saw this essentially as the United States mounting a coup to overthrow his ally and impose an anti-Putin government on Russia's border. And now everyone was looking at him on the state thinking, how is he gonna respond? And this chapter, more or less, goes through him responding in the form of international cyber warfare, not only the United States,

but multiple countries. Yes. The Unido, and us. He wants to break them all up. Yes. The Western world basically. Because Russia's pretty big, right? Like on our map.

It's huge. It's weird that he's huge. Yeah. It's weird that he's not in power. They have like a Canada inside of themselves. But they have like half as many people as we do. True, but it used to be. Because it's cold and chilly. So cold and chilly, that's just destiny.

Completely desolate. Yeah. But that's good for prisoning. That's, yes, quite. Yeah, they were just, I'm surprised, Canadians are so nice. That's the only reason they That's... Yes, quite. Yeah, they were just... I'm surprised Canadians are so nice. That's the only reason they're not operating gulags. They have total gulag terrain. Oh, they must.

Yeah, they're very nice. Yeah, very nice. Good Canadian's, eh? But, so... There's a really interesting... It's not interesting. It's pretty much the position that Putin has taken over the decades.

But Putin is basically just tired of the West humiliating him, quote unquote. So he keeps seeing all of our actions as things that we're doing. He says spreading democracy is the equivalent of shitting on Russia and specifically Putin. Yeah, pretty much, right? And shitting on somebody named Putin is hilarious to me. Your name is Putin

It's like it's like that baseball player named poo holes. Yeah, like every time Poo holes I was just like yeah I had to laugh at it or when I was in the Navy and I was on duty. I just thought it was 12 and my anyway shit hole president. Yeah, he really Continue with the Putin. Yes, Putin. He's probably a Poutine. I wonder if he's he's popular in Canada. No, no, no, no. Poutine. Poutine is weird. It is you don't like Poutine? I don't. Oh my god. He was in the gravy gravy. Cheese curds fries. It's the cheese curds. Oh, yeah. They're squeaky. Yeah, if it was just cheese. Yeah, melted. Yeah. Take these curds away. Take these curds. Oh my god, that's terrible. Please continue with the Russia.

Yes, yeah, unrelated to diplomacy in the Middle East. So we got basically the situation now that is set up and this is the this is the origin story of Putin's wrath against the West in recent years. Obviously the Cold War was the foundation of that. But basically, at this point, we just get some good insights in this chapter on where exactly Putin said was at and how the intelligence exchange between Russia and the US transpired. So there was a saint-like official in Moscow, in the Moscow assembly that was reporting back to the an American official and essentially giving them insider info into all of these plans that Russia had to try to destabilize the West. And those correspondences are laid out in this book over and over again, and that alone

is a great reason to get this book. It is so interesting. It really is. Yeah, it is amazing. So for example, they passed along the information that Putin's regime was crafting plans to expand its influence throughout Ukraine. That report came directly from this source. That's one of the things that this source was reporting.

So huge things, this person was an invaluable source. You're talking about the source inside the Kremlin, right? That doesn't work, that's not a... Yeah, they're not contracting. They're your guy. Yeah. He's just in there and he's just telling us everything. Yeah, amazing.

And he said those emails back, right? They sent the emails back and they were like, that's cool. Yeah, yeah. They're, he's giving, they talk about just how invaluable all of his information was. And they didn't treat it as such at the time. No, no.

They were just like, thanks because they were interested in something but not the other thing, right? They were like, yeah, I have, I think basically, they were more, they're more interested in the details that related to Ukraine specifically. It was a Crimea annexation. Exactly. Yeah, and they were more interested in the details that related to Ukraine specifically. It was a Crimea annexation. Exactly. And they were like, thanks for this.

This is great. But they weren't listening to the cyber warfare part of it at all. Exactly. They kind of ignored it. There are several points in this book so far that I'm only about halfway through it. But where we miss a warning, the 2013 thing put out by the GRU guy where he said, we're gonna do this. Right.

We ignored it. This thing where we sent all these emails back from this source inside the cremating, this is what we're doing with cyber war. And we're like, eh, the pedestrian email. We keep doing it over and over again. We just kept ignoring this. Now it's below and up. Because we don't wanna believe it. No one wanted to believe it. Well, we didn't think it. Yeah. Because we didn't want to believe it.

No one wanted to believe it. Well, we didn't think it was that. We didn't think that we were going to be that good at it. I don't know. Right. I think it's also just taking the next step further in the logical reasoning of, okay, let's say that we do not condone how he handled Crimea. And essentially that was the first act of cross European land seizures since World War II.

Right. So that's huge that he did that. Obviously, that's very troubling. Obviously, the US is going to have a sanctioned response to that. And then they're going to have a counter-response. But that counter-response is looking like it's turning out to be this very coordinated, international cyber warfare attack that we just didn't want to pay mine to at the time. We were more concerned about the information.

Bill Mason, right. And then like we talked about two, I don't remember who's in another mini-sode or the main episode, but basically just Obama had bigger fish to fry during that time. He wanted to keep those ties with Russia so they could get to some sort of, he could have an ally in Syria, Iran, and other projects that were more important to him, I guess, than trying to get to the root of this cyber warfare. It's literally warfare as we go on to find out. Oh yeah, we needed Russia to fight ISIS. We needed them to help with Syria and we needed them to help restrain Iran's nuclear program. Yes. And we were getting that help and it was going pretty good.

And Obama didn't want to lose that. We needed them as an ally for that. Yep. I wouldn't say an ally. That's kind of going a little bit too far, but a support in the region for those things. And he wasn't going to give that up. He felt it was more important.

And then fun fact. So in early 2014, as the Ukrainian crisis was in the heat of it, Trump, Ivanka, and Donald Trump, Jr. had been enthusiastically pursuing their deal with the Aguilaroves to develop a Trump tower in Moscow. So this is when we start to see their efforts come and transpire during all of this. And Trump wouldn't say anything bad about Moscow.

He blamed Obama. Yep. Everything. Obama sanctions were making it impossible for him to get his tower. Yes. So he was blaming Obama for everything. Obama, he just like over and over again, saying Putin was a great a great leader better than Obama all that shit. You remember that shit?

Yeah, yeah And so the deal essentially winds up dying the first one and then a year after Putin's invasion in Ukraine Truton and Eman and Goldstone Were guessed to his office in Trump Tower Yeah, and so then we just fast forward to the actual, what the title of this chapter suggests, you don't know me, but I'm working on a troll farm. This is so crazy.

That is a quote from a woman named Le Voudmila Sub-Chuc. Wow. I don't know if that's correct. I would bet money if I'm not wrong. My name is pronounced Sub-Check. Sub-Sub-Check? Sub-Check. Sub-check.

Sub-check. Cool. Yeah. Okay, thank you. Yeah. The audio book comes in handy for... Oh, yeah. The pronouncing name. I learned how to pronounce Rebalovlev's name.

Nice. The guy who bought Russian... The... The robot cop? Yeah, the one that we're like, love love love love love love love love. Rebal Flavin. I like that. Rebal.

Rebalovlev. Nice. That is... Rebalovlev. Yeah, that's a beautiful language. Yeah,ive. Nice. That is very old show. Reba-lovelive. Yeah, they're beautiful. They really are. Oh yeah, it's a beautiful language. Yeah, it really is. It's a shame that such crappy people are running the country. The people are probably great. It's just the dude at the top.

Yeah, that's very specifically you're referring to the United States. The way they're about Russia too is like in their parliament they have a group of people that are considered to be moderates Not even people that are anti-pootin because you can't have those people he won't allow it and then you have the rest you Yeah, and then you have the people that are just completely no fuck the West fuck the US is all lie We don't have there. Yeah, okay. Anyway, so this woman sub sub chuk you said

subject sub chuk sub chuk sub chuk sub chuk, you said? Sub chuk. Sub chuk. Sub chuk. Sub chuk. So she reached out to a local, she's working in a Russian troll farm in Russia, in St. Petersburg, yeah. And St. Petersburg. And she starts thinking, you know, the assignments that I have to do are starting to become increasingly fishy and sinister. So she reaches out to a local investigative journalist. Nensoff.

Yes. And the best part about this. We know. I have Andre Shoshnikov. Oh, different guy. Yeah. Interesting. What's really funny about this audiobook is that they use accents.

The guy who's reading it, he'll be like, around this time, a woman working in St. Petersburg called a Russian journalist and said, you don't know me, but I work in a troll farm. I hate this place. I want to destroy this place. Oh, yes. And he they use access. I like that.

It's the same guy reading it, but he like does these acts in a lady Russian voice. Impressive. He does ladies and men and everything. Like do not talk to me. It's so, oh my god. They got the right guy for the everything. Like do not talk to me. It's so nice. They got the right guy for the job. They did.

It's great. That is really fun. Well, she made that call though, man. She does. And she sort of starts describing what the conditions of this work is. So she says that they're all in there. There's hundreds of Russians that are cooped up working.

They have to do 12 hour shifts. And they were measured. Their work was measured by how many posts they filed, how many comments, likes, and shares their items received. So these are essentially internet marketers that are incentive based, just trying to get as much influence and reach as they can. Hundreds of Russians. Yes. Hundreds of them. Literally working. And I ran into them yesterday. I ran into some of them yesterday.

That's right. On Twitter. I had not had any interactions with any Russian trolls before. And I had some. They were out after the Mikaib was a hero. When I tweeted that Mikaib was a hero, the hashtag Mikaib or hashtag Mikaib fired, they were all over it. Because I never gotten these kind of responses before

They all have around a hundred followers. They all usually have some bright happy American photo. Yeah, or a dog Yeah, huh an American flaggy moji American flag and their name Is a hint if they use emojis and memes and gifs a lot, that's them. Because they don't speak English well. They don't, and you can tell when they try, and I just got so many. Like, you don't know, you talk stupid, and I'm like, oh my god, you are a Russian troll. Get out of there. We feel like I feel so hungry.

Oh, they got to make that money. They're making their 9.5. Just to fact, come out and be a ballerina or whatever you do. Follow your dreams. You do have. You dream of being a Russian troll when you do have, come on, man. And it's kind of scary when I think that these are scary, that these are like people in cold gray buildings

in St. Petersburg, like trying to trick me and if they don't get me to like or talk back to them, they'll, you know, they don't get paid. Are they in trouble. Yeah worse I mean worse things could happen. It's a factory talk about what happens to the journalist Yeah, so let me jump to That she met with them. She gave him a bunch of her videos and notes and told him everything right like they have

Here whatever. Yeah. Yeah, yeah So she says on on top of the that the message is she was being told to essentially get out there where those of promoting Putin, ridiculing Russian opposition leaders, deriding the EU, insulting Barack Obama with racist imagery, by the way. Right, like the monkey pictures. Yes, exactly. Invertenance.

Yeah, monkeys are cute. The bananas. So just an example of one of the things before we get to the gunned down person. One of the projects that she said she had to work on, for example, was creating this character called Cantadora, who was, oh yeah. Yeah, who was a fortune teller,

who offered readers advice on ghosts, recipes, personal relationships, and fung shui. And that's right, she worked in these special projects. Exactly. And that's what they would do in this special project. And you know what this reminded me of all these trolls, like getting pictures of Americans and pretending to be Americans and coming on and telling us that we needed that this is catfish.

Yeah. We're catfished as a country. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's real embarrassing, can we be on the show catfish? And like where we have to like awkwardly meet the Russian. I was just gonna say you to pitch this sketch to SNL before they do it in the bachelor Yeah, they're gonna wear like flops with socks Dude SNL catfish with the Russians. We'll write this script. We'll email it to Melissa, Beath and Yor.

I did shows with her. I believe it. She was really funny. So anyway, yeah, she was special projects. Yeah, and... Fortune teller. Yeah, so with this like Fortune teller, for example, then, you know, they'd establish this base of people that just like this character, And then the character would push out things saying that it's divine law that Putin is going

to rule and start pushing. Yeah, she would fortune tell that Putin is going to be amazing and he's incredible. And but like in between mixed in with posts, like you said, of like recipes and like, she be like, here's how I make my chicken kiev. And I see Putin is the magical man of the universe Yes, it's insane. Yeah, yeah, my love for Putin is a secreting green Next on iron chef. Yeah, but but so all of that shit happens That is good.

That is very good. That jokes. I can curtain shot. Cooking with Putin. No, it's a near rhyme. It's not quite. Yeah. You can with Putin.

No. I like iron curtain shots. That's good. I like it too. So the final straw though for this woman who is tipping off US intelligence about these Russian troll farms. She says the final straw came after opposition leader, Boriv Nymphstov. Nymphs, Nymphstov. God damn. Nymphstov was gunned down and murdered crossing a bridge, one block from the Kremlin. Yeah, this is the guy I was talking about. Nymphs off. Yeah, it's pronounced Nymphs off. Nymphs off. Yeah, this is the guy I was talking about. Nensoff. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's pronounced Nensoff. Nensoff. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, he was going down a block away from the Cremlin. He was.

And this suspicion was widespread among Russian dissidents and in the West that Putin was behind this assassination. Obviously, and she says that assassination. Because she had to lie about it. Was the moment she realized that they could kill anyone and they could kill all of us. Yeah, that's so terrifying. Yeah, that's why whenever I get a troll Now I'm like get out of there man. Yeah, yeah, we gotta shut it down quickly Yeah, this week was like intense for me sort of because up until this point. It's been it's just been like Yeah, we've been reporting on this and but now it's there's it is like it continues to be more and more sinister Yeah, and it's scary.

It's fucking scary. It's really scary. We do have a horrible, awful president, but we don't have Putin. We do not. Yeah. He's trying to be Putin. Yeah. He wants to be very brilliant.

But we have a judicial and we have a Congress. Yeah. So, whoo. Yeah. For now. Very scary. Very scary now Very scary Mom molar Yeah, and they use those tactics during the Cold War too like we talked about a little bit And this is not like it's new. It's just more a coordinated effort. Yeah, yeah, doesn't for Matsia

It's an old Cold War tactic called active measures as a matter of fact and Russia has re give it like it's been reborn The makeover on the internet But they use it a lot. Like we talked about in the main episode, they would have to call journalists. And they would spread lies like CIA assassinated JFK. They assassinated Martin Luther King. They engineered Jonestown massacre,

which reminds me of my favorite dad joke. Why are there no jokes about the Jonestown massacre? Why? Because the punchlines are too long. Ha! Like what? Well, they had to wait in line to drink Kool-Aid to die. Oh, that's right.

I forgot what that massacre was. Yeah. That was like the 900 people back. The punchlines. Yeah, the punchlines are too long. Oh my god, punch. I love it. That's why the phrase drink,

that's where the phrase drink the Kool-Aid comes from. Yeah. So, that American Biological Warfare Specialist started AIDS that a congressman, they talked us in the 70s that this congressman was gay and a member of a gay club. They were like mean girls starting all sorts of shit about the CIA. So imagine that old tactic, and you have to go to journalists

and reach out and try to do it that way. But now they have the internet. So all of your conspiracy theories against the government probably come from them. So that's, it's just insane. And by 2014, the Russians had penetrated our State Department and even the White House. Yeah. Yeah. And basically, that's amazing that she was talking to any informants from the US, because otherwise, who knows how long it would have taken for us to get a more detailed account of what was going on? Seriously.

Fun fact, what they were doing in the Soviet era, the equivalent of this, what you were talking about saying that the CIA assassinated John F. Kennedy, they called those active measures quote unquote. Yeah, that's what yeah, I was just saying that. Oh, that's the active measures. Yeah. I'm like, I've got the circled. I'm ready.

That's the whole television. That's what it's called. It's called a rear punchline. Oh. Oh no, it's okay. Yeah Like I got the circled I'm ready No, it's okay. It was just a way to wrap up everything But yeah going back to what you were saying about the assassinations. It's not it's not so much to if you want to indulge in conspiracy theories You don't have to stop. It's not like it was only Russia, but they were definitely Saying that that's what it was. Yeah, so if you have a good time around the fire and family memories talking about They could experience the theories of the CIA killing John F. Kennedy. No, you know, you have to let Russia ruin it I guess you know what long gone man Yeah, it was one dude. I saw it on Mythbusters. I'm convinced they convinced me. I'm convinced as well It's just easier. Okay. Well, I think about MLK isusters, I'm convinced. They convinced me. I believe you. I'm convinced as well.

It's just easier. J.M.K. Well, I think about MLK, and that's the one that I really, like, do you think? Yeah, but there was, I don't think to see, I had anything to do with that, no. No, I don't think so either. I can see why people have criticisms that MLK

was more of a sympathizer to the status quo, but I don't think they killed it. Yeah. Yeah. That would have been a pretty interesting time. Do you think people who think that the government like like control these crazy conspiracy theories. I have to I promise you I work there. We can't get a filing system together. It's not so no illuminati. We just got Windows 7. So when I first walked into my office two years ago, there was a Windows 95 for

dummy's book on my desk at a Microsoft Word processor. So, let's not pretend that we are sophisticated enough to even talk to each other, talk to agencies. We had to develop an agency just so the agencies could talk to each other. Good point. The bureaucracy is ridiculous. It's huge. I am not trying to say that the FBI, the CIA, and everyone there are a bunch of stupid people. What I'm trying to say is that we're too busy dealing with attacks and hoarding attacks

then to go out and do these weird things to make your life interesting. Exactly, yes. We don't have aliens. No aliens, I'm sorry. I was raised on aliens. I know I was gonna Were you really? Yeah, my parents love aliens. I love aliens too. My dad actually worked in the Air Force And he said they'll be here one day. Don't be afraid if they could come now and selectively take people that would be That would be a better place or to me. I was thinking more of the bad people

Yeah, I don't want to go of Trump's if can get me. I was thinking more of the bad people that I just take away. I don't want to go out of Trump's going. If it's awesome, I want to go out of bed first. It's bad, I want to stay. Yeah. Yeah. Can I also, sorry, this one last thing that I thought was really crazy that I didn't know

that I learned in this chapter was there was an attack that happened on the White House networks that started in the state department and then spread and spread and spread until it got into declassified networks in the White House. But like White House networks nonetheless, they were able to hack into Obama's personal schedule, for example. So Russia did a cyber attack that was so powerful that they had to shut down. They literally had to shut down the whole White House network and

start and start from scratch in some ways. People that were White House members, they weren't able to access the same shared drives anymore that they used to be able to. For example, they lost information, they lost emails, they had to literally just like stop everything. Because Russia literally shut them down in that way, and then Obama decided to not retaliate against that specific act

because he said, well, they... Yeah, too much going on here. Yeah, we have other priorities that we want to prioritize our ally ship with them, but also, they went for declassified servers, and they didn't publicly release any other information that they got So yeah, he let them off super easy. Yeah, he let them off so easy There's another one that that was an indication that we just kind of

Let go. So anyway, God. Thank you. That's chapter four. I don't love that chapter. Yeah, it was really just makes my heart like melt for these Russian So yeah, seriously all right. Thanks for listening for listening. I've enjoyed this book so much. I really recommend you guys pick it up. I'm loving reading it. So anyway, this is Mola Shirod. Join us next time for the next installment of Russian Roulette, the book report. I guess I want to make a diorama.

I like it. That would be the scariest diorama ever. Yeah. There'd be poise innings and all sorts of pull it like tea party like little Russian tea party We could have Rick Perry dancing. I don't even know very nice. I don't know. It's creepy dolls. Yeah Definitely scary. Anyway, I'm a G. I'm Julius Johnson. I'm Jordan Coburn and this is Mola. She wrote Muller She wrote. Muller She wrote is produced and engineered by AG with editing and mixing by Jolissa Johnson. Market consulting by Amanda Reader at Unicorn Creative.

Our digital media director and subscriber manager is Jordan Coburn. Fact checking in research by AG with support from Jolissa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Our web design and creative is by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is moresheroat.com. Season 4 of How We Win Is Here. For the past four years, we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year, we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave.

But the Magga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the house thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws. And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to see's power dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So the official podcast of the persistence is back with season 4. There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself.

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