Jack - Russian Roulette (Ch. 9-12)

Episode Date: April 4, 2018

Our third installlment of the “Russian Roulette” book series is here! Today we discuss chapters 9-12.  This book covers the incredible, harrowing account of how American democracy was hacked by M...oscow as part of a covert operation to influence the U.S. election and help Donald Trump gain the presidency. Enjoy! 

Transcript
Discussion (0)
Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, it's Kimberly Host of The Start Me Up Podcast. If you like your politics with some loose talk and salty language, you're going to love my show. I interview the coolest people like Mary Trump, Kathy Griffin, and DNC Chair Jamie Harrison. The Start Me Up Podcast has an easygoing, casual style and a strong emphasis on left-leaning politics. We also have Frank discussions about sex and more than a few spirited rants. Just visit patreon.com slash start me up or wherever you get your podcast and start listening today. Thanks for listening to Muller She wrote. The she in Muller She wrote is no accident. Did you know we are 100% women owned and operated? Every single person that helps make this podcast possible identifies as a woman. Our creative and web design, our engineer and producers, our editors and digital media
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Starting point is 00:01:23 That's what he said. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign. And I didn't have, not have, communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for?
Starting point is 00:01:42 I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a communist! No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to Muller Shee wrote Russian roulette book club
Starting point is 00:02:11 thing. Extravaganza. Bonanza. I'm A.G. I'm your anonymous host crushing the hash act with hash. I'm crushing the hash in the hatch acts. I'm okay. Yeah, and the little iteration going on here. The Hatchiche act is what I really get into. I like that. With me as always. With me as always is Jolisa Johnson. What's up guys?
Starting point is 00:02:36 And Jordan Coburn. Hello. And today we're going to go through chapters 9 through 12 of Russian roulette. And I love this book so much you guys. Chapter 9 is called, If it's what youlette and I love this book so much you guys. Chapter 9 is called If It's What You Say I Love It. So I bet you already know what that's about, but anyway, goldstone, goldstone, and a mean come back, it means the pop singer Russian, he's Azerbaijani, pop singer,
Starting point is 00:03:04 come back into Trump's circle, they come back into his circle with an email to Donald Trump Jr. This is because they came to see him earlier on when they were trying to do Trump Tower of Moscow one. Right. But now they're back again. And they email Donald Trump Jr. and they say, quote, we have some documents and information that would incriminate Hillary. This is obviously very high level. What do you think is the
Starting point is 00:03:27 best way and would you be able to speak to a mean? Also, I can send to your father via Rona, but it's sensitive. So I wanted to send to you first. Rona is Rona graph. Rona graph is like the hope picks of email for Donald Trump. She's the, you know, she's the back and forth. She's the gatekeeper of Trump. And somebody asked us in our main episode, like, why isn't she going to jail? So, I don't know, we'll see. To be clear, this was an explicit overture from the Russian government to help Trump win the election. We have to remember that when we read these things that sure maybe things didn't happen the way they wanted it to or or whatever, but this is Russia saying we want to help you.
Starting point is 00:04:12 Right. Reading the election. Yes, very clearly. Donald Trump, Jr. replied, quote, if it's what you say, I love it. That's creepy. It is. And then Donald Trump, Jr. speaks to Amin and then he emails Goode Stoo. And he says, quote, Rob, thanks for the help.
Starting point is 00:04:32 So apparently something's happened. The emails continue to set up the meeting and Donald Trump Jr. forwarded the whole email chain to Manafort and Kushner. So now they know about it. And it was only weeks earlier. You have to remember this to put it in context. I had this history teacher and she was the coolest history teacher because whenever she would tell us about things that happened in history, she would let us know what other
Starting point is 00:04:55 things were going on in the world so we could put it all in contact. Oh yeah, reference points. Yes. And so we have to remember that when this whole email exchange was happening, it was only a couple weeks earlier that popodopolis was told by Miffsood that the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton. So to put that in context. Yeah, the timeline. So I'm imagining if popodopolis had communicated that with the campaign that Kushner and Manafort were expecting this. Right.
Starting point is 00:05:28 Or at least we're like, I've heard when to this. Yeah, that makes sense. I mean, pop a dope, pop a dope. You were why they had to refine the email search. I have search for pop a dope, please. Not just anything, any spelling because I call them pop a dope dope. Exactly. And they're all drunk all the time, right? I think so.
Starting point is 00:05:46 So yeah, they're icing each other real good. Absolutely. That's a reference from one of our mini soads. If you're not a patron, you won't know what we're talking about. Sorry. I love you. Subscribe. There you go.
Starting point is 00:05:59 It's $1. It's a dollar. And you know what, you can cancel any time. There's no contract. Yeah, we don't hold you. I don't, yeah, I don't make you pay a year. I don't make you pay $12 No, you can just you know try and then leave if you don't like it, but Anyway, so that's what was going on at the time Papa Dopolis was willing to tell anybody about this so I can't imagine he didn't somehow tell Gordon who didn't tell Manifort and Kushner. Right. That he had heard this from Mifsaid.
Starting point is 00:06:27 And shortly after that, Scavino tweeted that the Kremlin was sitting on 20,000 Hillary Clinton emails. So, aw, the timing is just really interesting. And I'm sure that that's something Mueller's looking at. June 9th. And we all know this pretty well now, especially if you've been listening to the podcast for a while. Goldstone and three Russians came to Trump Tower including Vessel Netskaya her translator of Kava Latsay and her partner
Starting point is 00:06:53 Akmension so they show up at Trump Tower now Vessel Netskaya at the time was repping a guy named Katsif He was the owner of Prevazon holdings and Because Parit Bahara Barara we all know Parit. Yeah, Parit's the man. Former US Attorney's got an amazing podcast, check it out. Had charged them with laundering $230 million in stolen tax revenue exposed by Magnitsky. If you've listened to episode two,
Starting point is 00:07:20 or you've not been under a rock for the last seven months you know who Magnitsky is, the lawyer for an American investor in Russia named Bill Browder. Right. So she, that's who she was repping. She was repping Prevazon. He has a little guy ahead hired an American law firm called Baker Hosteller to represent Prevazon in the US. So she's the Russian lawyer, Baker Hostellereadler, is the U.S. lawyer, and they
Starting point is 00:07:45 hired Fusion GPS to discredit Bill Browder and his firm called Hermitage Capital. Just a weird coincidence that Fusion GPS ends up on the side of Vesselnetz Gaia. They're freelance. They are. They're seriously journalists for hire. Vesselnetz Gaia, an occupancy, had set up an entity called the Human Rights Accountability Global Initiative Foundation. Jordan, you talked about this in episode 17. Yes. They were lobbying against the Magnitsky Act. She was
Starting point is 00:08:14 carrying with her a huge file of disinformation about Browder labeled confidential that laid out Moscow's case against the Magnitsky Act, because she was in the states for a court hearing in her case with Prevazon Holdings. It was a lot like the file, oddly, that was shared with Dana Rora-Bacher two months earlier. Which he also talked about. The Putin ally. Yes.
Starting point is 00:08:39 Rora-Bacher. Rora-Bacher. Proportions. Yeah, for administrations. He's going down. He's not as fucked as Mana administrations, he's going down. So he's not as fucked as Maniford, but he's no way. But yeah, it's hard to imagine anyone that could be fucked greater than Maniford.
Starting point is 00:08:51 So true. Yeah, in the end. So when he's literal and figurative way. Yeah. Oh God, by multiple countries, he's getting dp'd by the fucking the world. Yeah, definitely. Well, you know what, you're jerk, that's what happens.
Starting point is 00:09:04 Yeah, you get dropped around. Sorry. Yeah, definitely. You know what? You're jerk. That's what happens. Yeah. Dr. Ran. Sorry. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true. Donald Trump Jr. asked, uh, thrilled. Stay on the rails crazy. Sorry. Donald Trump Jr. asked what they had. And then, uh, then Vessel Nuttskiah went into this long speech about what a dick Browder was and how three of his investors, uh, made large tainted donations to the Democratic Party, the ZIF brothers,
Starting point is 00:09:26 and that Hillary might have gotten some of this tainted money. It was this little tiny mention in her big long diatribe about Magnitsky and Pravezon and Bill Browder. Yeah. No one seemed interested. Manifort took notes on his phone. Muller has those notes, by the way, and Simpson read them aloud in his, you can read those in the transcripts with the House Intelligence Committee. Kushner was late, he showed up late and Donald Trump Jr. looked annoyed and the Manafort looked like he was nodding off. So Donald Trump Jr. finally said,
Starting point is 00:09:54 can you show us how the money went to Hillary? Yes or no? And Vessel and that guy was like no. And then she kept on with her lecture and then Kush actually emailed Kushner, actually emailed one of his assistants Please call me get me out of this meeting Which is you know what I've used that so I got a high-bargency for sure
Starting point is 00:10:13 Mm-hmm. They had that they at least their senses were tingling that is something was weird Yeah, but they deserve zero credit not so much that it's weird just they don't have the Juice that we thought they had they have that they I think they went in there look home for the emails. Yeah I can't prove that that's weird, just they don't have the juice that we thought they had. I think they went in their, look home for the emails. Yeah. I can't prove that. That's just a conjecture. So, was it, sorry. No, go ahead.
Starting point is 00:10:32 A, because I remember when that was first reported and I, I always thought that it was because they were like, this could be dicey. And not what we were looking for. No. And then they, that makes sense though, because then I guess they would have had to have then immediately decided, nah, I'm all in and then do everything else that they did. It's sad that they would love it. And check it out. I'll tell you about an email that was sent afterwards in a second.
Starting point is 00:10:53 But basically, so this was going on for a while. Then Donald Trump Jr said, show me how the money is tied to HRC. He just interrupts it, show me how it is. She said she couldn't. Then Donald Trump Jr. stopped her and said, look, look, look, we can talk about the Magnitsky Act when my dad is president. And then I mentioned, saw the meeting was going south. They saw that Manafort Kushner and DT Jr. were like, you don't have what we want. So he tried to save it by saying American conservative women will want to adopt Russian babies and that would be good for Trump's campaign, but nobody was. Nobody's buying that.
Starting point is 00:11:30 And Kush texted Manafort, Afkush, and here's what the here's where the intent comes in, Jordan, and in response to what you were saying, Kush texted Manafort waste of time. So it wasn't that they were concerned about it being dicey. It was they were pissed that it was a waste of their time. Right. They were looking for straight up dirt on Hillary Clinton. And we have to remember that what was established at this meeting, it established a connection between Trump and Moscow.
Starting point is 00:12:01 They knew Putin wanted to help Trump and was willing to work clandestinely to boost his chances, but so they didn't get what they wanted and they had said it was a waste of their time and they were upset and annoyed that they didn't get these emails, I think. But you could tell that they were annoyed and they said waste of time. But what was established is the connection between Trump and Moscow. They knew Putin wanted to help Trump and was willing to work clandestinely to boost his chances, and the Trump campaign had shown they were willing to see what they had to offer. So that's what was established in the June 9th meeting. Meanwhile, relations with Russia were sort of breaking down. They were becoming tense. A US diplomat was attacked outside of the US Embassy in Russia. Remember how we went into an earlier chapter about how they were like going into their apartments
Starting point is 00:12:47 and harassing them and smearing feces on the wall and killed a guy's dog and killed a guy's bird? Well, so a diplomat was attacked outside of the embassy and they got it on video. And this incident is what exposed the fault line in the Obama administration between those who wanted to retaliate and those who wanted to kind of stay cool. Yeah. Biden and Newland wanted to expel diplomats and cut ties and get rid of Kaspersky Labs and sort of be aggressive, be aggressive. And Susan Rice and John Kerry didn't favor harsh retaliation because they were trying to hammer out a deal with Lavrov to end the Syrian civil war. This division would be a weakness in the Obama administration that would become more
Starting point is 00:13:32 apparent, particularly when Russia attacked our elections. That's a good point. Yeah, split them right in the middle. Yeah, and so that's interesting that it exposed that division within the Obama administration early on. And that would come into play. That would be a factor later on when we seriously were attacked. So.
Starting point is 00:13:52 Exactly. Yeah. All right, you guys. Chapter 10. WikiLeaks has a very big year ahead. Oh yeah. So I cover the chapter and it's interesting because this is Friday, June 10th when it starts so this was at the Hillary Clinton headquarters for the campaign and this day after the June 9th 2016 meeting by the way.
Starting point is 00:14:15 Exactly. Put it in context. There you go. So the campaign staff was ushered into a giant conference room and there was an announcement that was going to be made. So they were told to turn in their laptops. No devices were allowed to be used. There were no exceptions. And they couldn't use their campaign email for anything.
Starting point is 00:14:35 They couldn't tell anyone anything. They couldn't tell their mom, couldn't tell their dog. So yeah, actually said that. They said, don't tell your mom, don't tell your dog. They meant business. Yeah, dog and snitches. Pitches, bee snitch tell your mom don't tell your dog. They man business. Yeah, dogs. Snitches. Bitches be snitches.
Starting point is 00:14:47 I don't know. Works, but bitches get stitches. There you go. Yeah, I love it. Snitchy bitches. We got a match. We just get snitches if you're Russia and you kill their dog. Oh, yeah, bitches get poisoned for sure.
Starting point is 00:15:00 So with Jalupa, the Hillary Clinton campaign. Her name is Jalupa. Which is really cute. Yeah, I like that. She's the Hillary Clinton campaign campaign is Jalupa. Which is really cute. Yeah, I like that. She's the Hillary Clinton Ukrainian staver. Also the most ordered item on Taco Bell's menu. Oh, definitely.
Starting point is 00:15:13 I like the nacho boxes now. I'm a max email person myself, and that's not on the menu anymore. Okay. But I'm a max email. And Mexican pizza. Oh, there you go. Yeah, yeah, I've seen it. Very nice.
Starting point is 00:15:24 So Jalupa knew that it was Russia immediately like she was like it's the Russians. I can't I don't have a Oh, that's right. She's the She's the Ukrainian staffer on the Hillary Clinton campaign. Yeah, right. So she had already been watching Manifold Yeah, okay, okay And Louise Miranda the communications chief asked what do we say if someone asks if this is the biggest political burglary since Watergate? What do we say in that scenario? The very specific scenario?
Starting point is 00:15:55 They were on a something, but someone responded, don't worry, no one will ask that. They will totally ask that. Yeah, this guy was on it. So, DNC wanted to get ahead of this story. They told the Washington Post about the hack and it came out as a front page news story, but they left out that the important documents that were stolen was that Trump,
Starting point is 00:16:17 or that Hillary, or Trump opposition research, right? All of the dirt on Trump. Yeah, I think they just didn't say anything about how important the shit that was stolen was. Exactly. They were just like, they hacked, which we were used to hearing, right? Like somebody hacked something.
Starting point is 00:16:32 Typical espionage. I remember when the Chinese hacked Sony or whatever. And everyone's like, we got to interview or whatever. Yeah, but that was just like, and I think you're gonna talk about this, to Lisa, that's typical espionage They just had to hack yeah, yeah No one thought anything of it at the time and
Starting point is 00:16:51 Wasserman shult she even told Washington Post that they learned about the hack in April Instead of seven months earlier when they really found out it with that mid-level IT guy and Susan rise She thought this was normal espionage like the medieval the medieval I.T. Yeah, the LARPER. And so that's all. Yeah. Susan Rice, she basically thought this was normal espionage and that Russia wouldn't be able to weaponize any of this material.
Starting point is 00:17:17 So they just were underestimating them. They never even thought about it. Yeah, yeah. And so after the post article, CrowdStrike released their report and it was clear this was not normal espionage. So the report stated that cozy bear and fancy bear were involved and the aggressive influence opts from fancy bear in the past made it clear this wasn't typical. So fancy bear was known for creating online personas that stole data and weaponized it by leaking it to the public. And they got into the Ukrainian election and they even leaked some fake election results, which really made me sad because it just sounded like what happened to us a little bit.
Starting point is 00:17:53 And they seized control of a major French TV network and shut them down. They even posted images of ISIS on this French network to make people think that they were ISIS. So their whole deal is to demoralize and confuse their target audiences. And they're pretty successful at it. So the Trump campaign responded to all this by saying that the hoax wasn't actually a hoax, but if it was, the DNC probably did it themselves. I don't know.
Starting point is 00:18:18 This is weird. The hacking isn't real. Yeah, it's not real. If it is. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, because we know it's going to come out eventually. And the Trump response came six days after the Trump tower meeting when they were told that the Kremlin wanted Trump to be president. So there's a little motive there. And the next day after the Washington Post and Crowdstrike reports
Starting point is 00:18:41 came out, goose afr 2.0 appeared and took credit for the stolen material. He wanted to basically prove that it was him, and he mocked the Crowdstrike report for saying it was Russians. He also said he wasn't Russian, he said he was a solo actor from Romania, and he said, fuck the Illuminati in their conspiracies. Yeah. You can trust anyone who says, fuck the Illuminati in there.
Starting point is 00:19:04 Mostly because the Illuminati is black people largely. Yeah, I'll be on say and Jay-Z basically So the DNC met with the FBI the next day and Dacey the head of the campaign she wanted to know why the FBI didn't inform the top officials at the Hillary campaign sooner She wanted to know why they went for that medieval guy. So, middle-level, medieval. Exactly. The FBI responded vaguely, saying, we did.
Starting point is 00:19:33 It's in our notes. The FBI confirmed that the hack was Russian, but they claimed that they did talk to the right people about it when it got. That bugs me. And I didn't see the FBI in the room. Go, no, that's in my notes. Yeah, dismissal.
Starting point is 00:19:46 We did. And they're like, really, because it's been seven months and we're just now finding out. So you suck at telling us. Yeah, I don't like that like blatant lying or covering it up. But I guess there are certain like confidential things that go into that.
Starting point is 00:19:57 But I don't know, that ones are a little sketchy. So the DNC ask if they go public with the information, but they said that, or the FBI said that they wouldn't do that because they're not really in the attribution business. And they wanted to leave that as a call for the White House. So they were going to pass that information to them. Meanwhile, the intelligence community suspected a Russian connection to Goose for 2.0 because he mentioned WikiLeaks.
Starting point is 00:20:23 And they believe that there's a link between a Sange and Moscow. So a Sange has his own TV show on the Russian television network, RT. And yeah, I mean, it's pretty clear. Oh, they've suspected the Sange and WikiLeaks have been in Russia's, a Russian asset for a while. Oh, yeah. Because you're like you said, you had his own TV show. What were some of the other connections?
Starting point is 00:20:44 So Obama's Justice Department launched a criminal investigation into a Sange after he released Oh, yeah, because you're like you said he had his own TV show what were some of the other connections so bombas Justice Department launched a criminal investigation into a sange after he released the Bradley Manning materials Yeah, and just a little side note Sweden tried to extradite a sange for sexual assault charges But he claimed that was all just a smear of his reputation to you know get him for his Bradley Manning stuff But we do we do say Bradley Manning because at the time, it was Bradley Manning. Yeah, now Chelsea Manning. She is now Chelsea Manning.
Starting point is 00:21:09 Yes, yes, you're absolutely right. So yeah, Sange clearly hates Hillary Clinton. He publicly called her out and told a British reporter that we have upcoming leaks in retaliation to Hillary Clinton. WikiLeaks has a very big year ahead. So yeah, that's reference to the chapter. Sure did.
Starting point is 00:21:28 They delivered on that. So the weeks to follow, Gusefer would release a bunch of documents while taunting Hillary Clinton and Crowdstrike. He said he was Romanian, of course, that's noten and a sange were modern day heroes. And he said he was alone after. So the thing is, a British cyber security researcher
Starting point is 00:21:46 named Matt Tate who went by, is it Pone All the Things? These are all, oh, these are all the clues that they had that they were actually, right? So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Pone All the Things. This was the guy at PWM, when you poned someone, yeah. I love that, he's the one that found out
Starting point is 00:22:03 that Christopher was full of shit. So he dug into the metadata. One of a few, a few. Exactly. He was one of the first. Yeah, you're absolutely right. So he dug into the metadata of all the docs released by Christopher 2.0. And he noticed that they'd been opened in a program using Russian language options. Yeah, that's a pretty obvious clue there he also noticed one of the computer user names that were referenced to Felix Derszynski oh Derszynski yeah, he's a Soviet revolutionary that He didn't yeah
Starting point is 00:22:37 Felix they just called Felix he's a KGB guy. I guess he was involved. Oh he created a London secret police right yeah? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, that guy is. So they're like, yeah, not Russians at all. Right, his name was used in one of the usernames, and that was just a weird clue. So finally, he noted that Gusefur's English skills varied greatly from post to post,
Starting point is 00:22:57 and this suggested that he was not just one person, but maybe a group of people. Similarly to Trump and his ghostwriter that helps him write to me. Exactly, yeah, and George. Right, a minute. So they're saying that all these posts that Gooseph are was making,
Starting point is 00:23:09 like the English abilities sucked in varying levels. Exactly. And so it couldn't have been the same dude. That's what they, yep. Tang. Yeah, that's why they're professionals. I wonder if they almost wanted to get caught, you know, it kinda makes me wonder.
Starting point is 00:23:24 Well, I mean, you can only do this in the same time. It's what all this is about. True, true. They're not perfect. You're right. So, another expert, Thomas Rid, found that an IP address used in the DNC hack matched one used in a known Russian hacking into the Bundestag. Another IP address used to hack NATO.
Starting point is 00:23:43 So yeah, basically, there's another connection to one of the previous hacks that we're doing against the, I guess, Ukraine. Oh, right, right, right. Okay, so one of the IP addresses matched one that hacked into the Bundestag, and they knew that that was Russian. And then another IP address used to hack NATO, Georgia, and I think Ukraine Ukraine like a like an anti Yanaprovich yep a group in Ukraine. Yeah, they made that connection and also matched another IP address So they're like, oh, yeah, I'm sure it was totally a grown actor with all of this. I mean yeah back to back It became so obvious you guys really need to read this book if you haven't read it. It's so comprehensive
Starting point is 00:24:22 I love it all the these are good so and they do Oh, sorry, no. No worries. They do a good job of it being pretty unbiased too. Like if anything, they they correct things like yeah, I don't hear it in one person's narrative. It sounds like I'm reading a report for sure. Well that and I was surprised at how I don't know. I guess how ineffective Obama's policy was against Russia and that Hillary was like, we have to put our foot down and Obama's like, not rather be diplomatic, but that whole fault line we were talking about at the end of chapter 10, where we want to Syria, we need to fight ISIS in the region, etc. And Kerry was against that. And so that whole fault line. And so I think what you're talking about here
Starting point is 00:25:08 is that whole fault line is gonna come to bite them in the air. Absolutely. They needed to be united and they were clinging. And I love Obama. I'm an Obama. Oh, yeah. I'm talking about the tattoo.
Starting point is 00:25:16 Of course. We're all big Obama fans here. But his campaign for him when I was four. Oh, he dropped the ball though in a lot of areas. His ineffectiveness in dealing with Putin, but Putin, he didn't really, he had Medvedev and Putin took over, but his ineffectiveness was trying to be diplomatic. He clearly paid a price.
Starting point is 00:25:35 Yeah, he really did. And he couldn't have predicted every possible threat would turn out to be the biggest threat, but it's just a tough, little gap. I know you were serious. Yeah, that was just a big one for sure. So just to wrap it all up a guy named Kaplan was put in charge of the hacking issue in the Hillary campaign and he devised the strategy against all this So he told reporters this isn't about what's in the documents. It's that their Russians is that the Russians are hacking our election
Starting point is 00:26:02 Oh, and we have to I have to bring this up to, I'm sorry, the internet. No worries. But in our main episode, we talk about how, who was it that is suing the Katari's for hacking? That's broady. Yeah, yeah. So remember how I said this is not an odd strategy because broady is saying, you know, it isn't about the embarrassing,
Starting point is 00:26:22 the details of the emails. It's about the privacy act of the hack to me. And this is what the strategy for Hillary Clinton's campaign. Trump too. It the leaks aren't real, but the leaks are real, but the news is fake. That's right. Yeah, yeah.
Starting point is 00:26:36 So everyone does that. It's like when you find out in, by, you pick up your boyfriend's phone, you find out it's cheating on you. Right. But you're a dick for looking at his phone. Exactly. That's kind of the whole, like, that's...
Starting point is 00:26:48 It's a hell-mary argument, but yeah, we see the... The patterns here. That's the moral argument. Yeah. Who's the actual asshole that it is? Exactly. The wrong-doer or the person who did wrong, finding out you were wrong. Right.
Starting point is 00:27:01 It's definitely a diversion, though, the person that has, you know, that is compromised, because then it's like that person wouldn't have had the intention to look into you in that way in the first place, had you not been doing those things. But both sides have done it, and there is an argument that if you go looking for dirt, you're going to find it.
Starting point is 00:27:17 But which, yeah, I think it's, sorry, I think it's worse to have the dirt, for sure, than to find it. Yeah, I feel that way. That's what most people think. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think we all need to be real too All sides have dirt of course, you know, you're right. Everyone has to I'm not saying a G doesn't have any dirt
Starting point is 00:27:31 Oh, yeah, perfect purse. Yeah, no for real just like trump durvers You to find it don't challenge them. Yeah, trump durvers is Hillary dirt is like the world will be ruined if he continues on versus Hillary dirt is like, the world will be ruined if he continues on dirt. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Things that are much less sick. They're definitely different degrees of it for sure. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, last thing, the needle just started to move in the White House because this was
Starting point is 00:27:57 the first time that any enemy had weaponized hacks in this way. So the story itself is what out, but the DNC still wonder what was going to happen. They had no idea at the time that Pindestine's emails had been hacked. And the quote that this chapter leaves off on is, every day we wondered if this will be the day it hits. We just kept waiting for whatever it would be. Yeah, that's the scary part is when you know some shit's been stolen and you know that they're going to weaponize it. It's not just a hack. It's a weaponizer.
Starting point is 00:28:27 It's a weaponizer. And what is it? What they get and what's going to be real. Exactly. That's why in my office and in my life, I say, right, every email is though everyone in the world is going to read it. Yeah. That's a good point.
Starting point is 00:28:41 Listen to this. Listen to this. Listen to this. Like everyone's going to see it. Yeah, for sure. That's always nicely Now it's how we should all live our lives You know that whole dance like no one's watching email like everyone is I think it's the I think it's the lesson that we take Or like how man that horrifying is it when someone will like CC someone back on the thread And it's like fuck they weren't supposed to see everything I wrote before this god damn it
Starting point is 00:29:03 It's the you know what if your email if you don't want to reply all, you shouldn't write it. Exactly. Good point. Good advice. Alright you guys, we'll be right back. It costs a lot to make a podcast. In addition to the hours of research and scripting, there's editing, producing, mixing, equipment upgrades, hosting fees, web design, shipping, subscriber management
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Starting point is 00:29:51 Visit mullershoewrote.com and click subscribe today, and thank you for listening. All right, we're back to our book review, and I hope that I really felt like we should pair this or a book review, and I hope that I really felt like we should pair this group of chapters with like maybe a, I don't know, a Rose, because it's got some legs, but it's not super deep, yeah. I mean, there's a lot of interesting things that are going on here, so get a Rose, get a nice Rose. Nice sweet. Nice sweet juicy details.
Starting point is 00:30:23 Yeah. Very, yes, yes, it is a little sweet. I prefer the dry. Rosé's, although I don't think what we're doing is dry, that's a weird comparison. That's a good point. Yeah. Very wet. Let's just take that back. And chapter 11, Jordan, you're going to go through this for us. Yes. Yeah. I really enjoyed this chapter. This chapter was entitled, quote, I have to report this to headquarters. this chapter. This chapter was entitled, quote, I have to report this to headquarters. So basically this chapter is centered around Christopher Steele, our Helmi, and Glenn Simpson as well, and a couple other, a couple of directors. Hey, did you hear he's on a hit list now?
Starting point is 00:30:59 Oh, yeah. That's right. This came out in the news, the Russian hit list. The KGB ex-spies and stuff. Yeah, I didn't know that they had a hit list that people had access to. Well, the first guy that was poison, or not the first, but the one that was poisoned most recently, he was on that list. Yeah, the Skripal guy was on the hit list. And then there's another guy. Well, another guy who's on the hit list was told by a friend of his in the Kremlin.
Starting point is 00:31:22 Yeah. And he was shown the hit list. He's missing, or he's not missing, but he's like, oh, I'm going to run. Yeah, he's on the lamp and just deal is on the hit list was told by a friend of his in the crowd. And he was shown the hit list. He's missing or he's not missing, but he's like, Chris's run, yeah. Yeah, he's on the lamp and steel is on the hit list. Oh, fuck. He's already done the shit. Yeah, that's why.
Starting point is 00:31:33 So it was Bill Browder, shocker. He's been on there for a while though, I heard. Yeah. They've been wanting to kill that guy for a long time. He's very like, I guess not proud, but he's a brave guy. Bill Browder, he'sder, I know a big one. Yeah, he's like, when I can't make it.
Starting point is 00:31:46 I'm sure you had a feel about him. Good point. Okay. Like, everyone's got their secrets to it. You're right, you're right. Sorry, Jordan, go ahead. Oh no, no, no, it's okay. I'm just trying to sit you in my home
Starting point is 00:31:55 and have this huge book in front of my face and then I'll also see you guys. Then we all have our bad touch of a book, you know? I know, I just, I annotate like a serial killer. I like that. Yeah, I read That's amazing. You should take some photos of your notes your research is good. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah Water. Yeah, I'm just mainly like oh what oh shit What the fuck so kind of like how you are in the podcast? Yeah, yeah, circle shit and red going what?
Starting point is 00:32:23 Yeah, exactly makes them perverted comment that's very digging the phone. We need to find a psyche. Yeah, we have an out of some. Please, please share. Yeah. Okay, so this chapter opens up with a scene set early in June. Two men who we find out very quickly are Christopher Steele and Simpson. Me for lunch at an Italian restaurant in London Heathrow Airport. And that both of these fellows have had a career long history of uncovering and countering the corruption and misdeeds of Putin's regime.
Starting point is 00:32:54 So Christopher Steele, as you know, was a British spy. He worked for MI6 for a long time. And then Glenn Simpson, the other guy that was here, is a American who was a Wall Street Journal journalist, he's a renowned investigative journalist, or was a Wall Street Journalist, I should say. And his specialties involved essentially revealing powerful Russian oligarchs and organized crime figures who had hired Washington lobbyists to advocate for their interests. He's a Washington Post Journalist. Yeah, I have Wall Street Journal on here.
Starting point is 00:33:24 Oh, okay. Oh, both. A Simpson. Yeah, journalist. Yeah, I have Wall Street Journal on here. Oh, okay. Oh, both. A Simpson. Yeah, maybe a computer for the other. Right, right. Yeah, that's right. He worked for both. Yes.
Starting point is 00:33:32 But that's cool. Yeah. I think he ended at WAPO in 2009. Okay. It might be WSJ. Is it WSJ? This one just says that he was a renowned investigative journalist at the Wall Street Journal. Okay.
Starting point is 00:33:44 And a liar. that's all. That's what he says. That's what he says. That's what he says. Which is a conservative. Yeah, interesting. Which makes sense when you find out what he says about Hillary Clinton later on in the chapter. Yeah, definitely.
Starting point is 00:33:54 He's not a fan of Clinton. So in 2009, Simpson had quit the paper to form his own private investigative research firm in Washington. And this was Fusion GPS. Turn the page kiddos. And the kiddos, they're gonna actually have turning the pages. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:34:13 Can we do like, we've an illustrated pop up book. Oh, I'm so down. I'll do it for us, yeah. Some of his stories. Imagine all the scenes. That's hilarious. Then we have someone doingallonium Tea Party. Exactly.
Starting point is 00:34:28 Oh, nice. Perier book reports with Pallonium Tea. The pop-up happens at the beautiful tea party and there's the like, blood's black. Yeah, that's fantastic. I love it. Have you seen the Bubba Jook? Yes. It's such a good movie, but remember that messed up book that has them like oh my god
Starting point is 00:34:45 It's exactly that you guys we should do a whole Yeah, if we could do if we could like tie the boba Duke into trump. I love the book. Okay It's is one of my favorite scary movies. It's so good. Well, it's about grief, right? Mm-hmm. It's a thriller. Yeah, it's more a thriller But it's also a complete horror movie but the the Babadook represents grief. Yeah, exactly. And if we do a Babadook that represents the grief that we feel that Trump is present, I think we could just make a really beautiful diorama. I like that.
Starting point is 00:35:15 And then you'd have to actually probably come and see us live. But not bad. Yeah. We'll work on it. And if anyone makes pop-up books, Oh, yes, minor detail. You know, whatever. That too.
Starting point is 00:35:27 Yeah. There's so many amazing scenes to just turn and have pop-up. Like, oh shit. It's gonna be like a horror pop-up. I don't want to just storm me Daniel's pop-up. Exactly. Oh my god, yeah, there's the P-tapes pop-up. There's, there's, there's the golden shower.
Starting point is 00:35:42 The glitter comes like, gold glitter comes out of you. I know we have a calendar coming out. Can we buy? Yeah. We sent like golden showers, like messages to people like. Like golden glitter. Yeah. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:35:55 Yeah. Yeah. I'm gonna go trumped. That one then. Prrrr. Seriously, we'll be gold viral. Let's do it. Let's do it everywhere.
Starting point is 00:36:03 I'll make a note. I'll make a note. And then it's just Trump going, I pin on you. Yeah. We'll send it to our most homophobic representatives. Exactly. We'll just fight them. Yeah, Grassley.
Starting point is 00:36:12 Enjoy your glittery piece of shit. Yeah. Try explaining this to your wife. That should stay on you forever, too. Yes. It is the herpes of craft. Yeah. That's really funny. Yeah. Yes. It is the herpes of craft. Yeah. That's really funny. Yeah. Okay. So
Starting point is 00:36:28 anyways, going back to the book here. So Glenn Simpson, his firm basically was self-described as doing archons, they self-described, so indescribed it as journalism for rent. He did that in the fusion GPS transfer. He did that as His role was in prior. Okay, perfect. So basically his firm's mission was more generally across the board to ward off damaging media stories and investigate the critics of its controversial clients, which means he's not always representing the good guy, more so the people that are just getting attacked. Right. Usually the troubled businesses come to him and say, hey, these nice people who are suing us, we find dirt on them.
Starting point is 00:37:11 Yeah. That's pretty much why he dug into Bill Browder. Yeah, just another objective note for everyone to know that these people that are uncovering these things are not extremely biased people. They're quite the opposite. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, for example, in 2012, fusion GPS was higher to do opa research on
Starting point is 00:37:31 Mitt Romney for Barack Obama. Bad example of what it was just saying, but it'll come. Um, well, like they, they did, they represented herbal life. Mm-hmm. Uh, yeah, for killing about a few days game and, uh, Theronos, um, which to me sounds like the guy from, uh, Guardians of the Galaxy. Oh, yeah. For killing a potty scheme. And Theronos, which to me sounds like the guy from Guardians of the Galaxy. Oh yeah. Thanos, I'm sorry, that's Thanos. It's okay, I didn't know the reference anyway.
Starting point is 00:37:52 But now that I know it's pretty good. I know, I'm just pop culture does. I'm very new. Yeah, look at me, I'm a page turner. I can't read, but I like to turn page. But yeah, Obama hired him. Yeah, Obama hired him. Oh, Obama hired him. We get dirt on Mitt Romney.
Starting point is 00:38:07 You know, hard it's gotta be to get dirt on Mitt Romney. That guy is a goddamn, well, he's a mole man. He's like, missionaries. I saw him drink a Pepsi once. He did it. Oh, I'm watching my pearls. But, so just a little example of the precedent that was set for this sort of opa research, the Obama campaigns payments to Fusion GPS, they were never publicly disclosed.
Starting point is 00:38:33 Instead, the money is paid to the investigative firm itself. What had become standard practice when the opa research was done on Mitt Romney on behalf of Obama was that the Obama campaign's contributions to Fusion GPS, they're not publicly disclosed. The money paid to the investigative firm was reported on campaign disclosure reports as legal bills to the campaign's law firm. Perkins. Perkins Kooley. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:39:04 Perkins Kooley. Same law firm that represented the Hillary campaign. Oh, nice. Good to know. That's Mark Elias and Perkins Kooie. Yeah, we hear about Mark Elias in this chapter. And so more recently, Fusion GPS had assisted an American law firm defending Prevazon, the Russian owned company accused in the U.S. of laundering money. And this was the case that had actually spurred Congress to pass the Magnitsky Act. So we've all heard of Pritzon. And my side note says, oh, so they did work for the other side. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:39:35 They did. And what's really interesting is when you listen, if you ever don't know, have no life and several hours to listen to the fusion GPS interviews like me. You'll notice that when the Republicans ask questions of Glenn Simpson, they always want to know about Prevazon. And when the Democrats are asking questions, they want to know about Trump. So it's an interesting thing. Yeah. Yeah. Why did you care so much? Yeah. Like they were trying, like they're trying to establish that Fusion GPS worked with the Russians. Right.
Starting point is 00:40:06 Yeah. OK, so that's Simpson. Then we move on to Christopher Steele. In 2009, he has this guy, Chris Burrows, who is his buddy. And they come together and they create orbit business intelligence, which is their spies for hire, basically. Steele was known as a heart of the operation
Starting point is 00:40:25 in terms of gathering all the actual information and Burrows was kind of known as the salesman who could understand the context of who was asking and why, what things actually meant. He would sort of vet the thing, Steel would bring to him. Right, because he kind of knew better what was, oh, that little sound real.
Starting point is 00:40:41 Yeah, exactly. The market of information. Yeah, kind of had to grasp on. And steel just had an extremely deep understanding of Compromot because this guy has dedicated his life to trying to essentially uncover Russia's corruption. And if for some reason you're just now, this is the first thing you've ever listened to, listened to from us. Compromot is Russia getting compromising information on you so they can blackmail you. It is a tactic they've been using since before the Cold War.
Starting point is 00:41:14 Yeah, exactly. And so this firm gets a bunch of work. In one case, the company was hired to buy a British insurance company operating in Russia. That was being harassed by, I'm sorry. It was hired by a British insurance company operating in Russia that was being harassed by, I'm sorry, I was hired by a British insurance company operating in Russia that was being harassed by Russian tax collectors and then steal discovers the reason it was that the son of the chief Russian regulator had a rival business. So steal discovers this connection, they he essentially threatens
Starting point is 00:41:43 them and says if this harassment doesn't stop, the word is going to spread. That it was because of that corrupt reason. And then the harassment stops. So that's nice. Fast word of 2010, Steele and Burrows land a major assignment. And this was FIFA. So the case in FIFA, this is when Russia was selected in 2018 and Qatar was selected in 2022. And this was after the Americans and the Brits have put in a huge amount of effort into getting the bid. And so of course, when it gets awarded to Russia and Qatar, there's a lot of dubious thoughts going on by the Brits and Americans. Their convinced that the decision was a result of corruption
Starting point is 00:42:22 that included payoffs, finds it it turns out that it was, Putin was using friendly oligarchs to slip bribes to FIFA board members. Right, and in that case, Christopher Steele met with an American FBI agent named Mike Gata, who was also a Russia expert, and he shared a dossier, he's a dossier guy on the FIFO corruption, where he had photos of bladder that later, I guess, the guy who runs it, like partying it up
Starting point is 00:42:55 with this other guy who had previously tried to fix the Olympics. Yeah, Alimaxon Tatoz. Yeah, so that the Russians would win ice skating. And he was also, he was also caught laundering tens of millions of dollars through a Cypriot bank for Russian oligarchs in a gambling ring. He ran out of... Get this. Trump Town.
Starting point is 00:43:16 That is nuts. That's crazy. And the indictment on that guy was actually announced by James Comey Fun Fact. So nice to watch. Have you watched that indictment? that guy was actually announced by James Comey fun fact. Oh so nice to watch if you watch that indictment No, you it's it's on video. It's on porn hub. Ah, I'm sorry. It's on c-span. Oh Funny, I would like to orange that that's amazing So steal establishes himself as a credible source of the FBI
Starting point is 00:43:40 Then he does the same thing with the US State Department in 2014 when he reports on the Ukrainian crisis and all of the stuff That's going on there. So between May 2014 and February 2016, Steel sent Newland of the State Department 120 reports about political and diplomatic developments in Russia and Ukraine and that's the same Newland we were talking about in the main episode Who's the DNC Staffer who was the Ukrainian connected. That's why she has all this information is because steel sent her all this shit. Right. Yep. And the memos were covering efforts to
Starting point is 00:44:13 evade the Western sanctions and activities of various oligarchs. So by the spring of 2016, steel is now essentially just deemed a valuable supplier of intelligence to not only the FBI but also the State Department. And he's trusted source in uncovering Russia corruption. So Simpson and his firm had been investigating Trump for months. Initially his client was the Washington Free Beacon as we've talked about, which is a conservative website, funded by a billionaire hedge fund king, Pind Paul Singer. Part of the conservative never-trump movement, which is a billionaire hedge fund kingpin Paul Singer, part of the conservative never Trump movement, which is a movement I can get behind.
Starting point is 00:44:48 Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. So they stopped wanting to fund that research, though. And then this is when they actually went and pitched to Mark Elias, who you were talking about, the Democratic lawyer who served as the chief counsel for the Clinton campaign and the DNC. They pitched to him all this information. That's important because in the in the hold like Devon Nunez
Starting point is 00:45:12 bullshit when they say that Hillary went out and found this and paid for it. Hillary had no idea and actually Perkins Kui who Mark Elias works for really had no idea this was going on. And the only reason they did is because Simpson came to pitch it to them. Yep. Right, so they came to the Clinton campaign via a law firm. And I think that actually, no, I know, I actually goes over in the book. Hillary Clinton didn't have any idea that any of this was going on, right?
Starting point is 00:45:47 No, yeah. Yeah, not until later. And then it's also ironic because Simpson was the Clinton campaign's chief undercover op-oh man. That's ironic that he became that because when he started, he had zero sympathies for the Clintons and actually spent a large time investigating them and under China's uproot stories about foreign money that they had received from China in Indonesia and other countries.
Starting point is 00:46:13 Yeah, he says, quote, I had no interest in working for Hillary fucking Clint. Yeah. He said, but now Trump is a bigger and more sinister threat. And in fact, the only thing that really happened was Donna Brazil Who ended up taking over the DNC after Debbie Wasserman Schultz had to resign because of the Podesta hacks that not not because they were hacked But because the information in the hack. Yeah, not apparently done in Brazil went to Marcolias of Perkins, Kui and said what the fuck is going on is fusion working on behalf of Is on behalf of Hillary? Is he working on Russia?
Starting point is 00:46:47 And Mark Alaskas, you don't want to know. Yeah, exactly. So that's Donna Brazil. Yeah. We haven't seen her in a while. She's got a jail, like she's always on, she's always on like the TV, on like a news, you know, she's talking had,
Starting point is 00:47:03 but I haven't seen her to million years. Yeah. And so Simpson is already starting to uncover that Ivanka and Jared, they have weird social relationships with Western oligarchs. They're learning things about Deutsche Banks and the loans that Donald Trump has received. And then he meets with steel. And at this point, Simpson knew something else that he didn't know which was the Democratic party got hacked by the Russians. Okay so Simpson hired steel but he didn't tell
Starting point is 00:47:34 him that he knew the DNC had been hacked. Yep and he didn't he also didn't tell steel that the Russians may be interfering in the election on behalf of Trump. He didn't mention any of that. I think because he wanted to keep the integrity of the investigation. Yeah, I think so. He was just hoping, I think, yeah, exactly he was going to be able to move forward with it just going on off of the leads that he had without being influenced by any of those other horrendous acts. So, Steel got a contract, it was like a month-to-month contract basically, and he just kept finding
Starting point is 00:48:12 shit that was too good to pass up, so he kept doing it. Steel got in touch with one of his chief sources in Russia, who is called the collector, quote unquote, and his collector informed steel that the Russians had been targeting and cultivating Trump for years and they've gathered Compromah on him. Specifically, these tales of weird sexual indiscretions, which we all know as the P teams. And apparently these were open secrets in Moscow. Yeah, everyone was like, oh yeah, yeah, Pee. Yeah, Pee.
Starting point is 00:48:42 Everyone's like, yeah, Pee. Mm-hmm. And it's not a surprise to people because Russia has a history of using sexual compromise against people. Yeah, they did it with Yeltsin's guy or the Yeltsin's opponent. Yeah, exactly. They did. I think that was the one where they had like a blurry campaign sort of commercial thing that came on. And then they said, Oh, the guy in that who was with the prostitutes that are also in the image was actually this guy. Yeah, it was Yeltsin's opponent and Yeltsin was so thankful that he, because Putin actually
Starting point is 00:49:11 Putin was in charge of the KGB at that time and Yeltsin was so thankful he's like, Putin, you're next, you get to take over for me. That's how Putin got into power. He the smart guy, evil guy, but smart. That's compromised. That's the whole reason Putin is in charge of Russia right now is because of Compromise that strategy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He said he said himself up as the person that puts the rug or stamp on whatever. So he's like, yep, that's him. That's him in the video. Whoa. Fuck that guy. And then everyone is like, thank you, Boone. Exactly. For telling us how messed up everyone else is.
Starting point is 00:49:45 Yeah. And the same source reported having heard Putin express his desire to return to the 19th century style of great power in politics, in which nations would essentially pursue their own interests rather than ideals based international order. That's terrifying. Right.
Starting point is 00:50:03 That's World War III material. Yeah. For sure. And unfortunately, he's becoming increasingly successful with creating chaos. Not with new worlds, he has new opposition here in America. Yeah, it's insane. So then we start, we learn a little bit more about the specifics of the p-tapes. This chapter kind of ends on a little bit of a undefined note, I think, about the p-tapes that they were very not sensationalized by any means. There was actually a fear from Simpson that they were going to be seen as sensationalized, so they even hesitated to bring them to people. Well, burrows thought that at first too, right?
Starting point is 00:50:46 So to steal. Yeah. Because steal went to burrows and he was like, look, and burrows goes, what the fuck? What the fuck is a golden shower? I've never heard of that. Yeah. And he, he burrows thought steal was sensationalizing. It's just like you said, and he goes, where, why did you use the word perverted in here
Starting point is 00:51:04 and steals like, because that's what he said. Yeah. Yeah. So like they everyone was like, this is a little just, this is a little too much. Exactly. But then it just winds up being that things were getting corroborated left and right. And it was like, all right, well, then we got to move forward with this.
Starting point is 00:51:22 This is a compromise of the highest degree. We have evidence that Poon's been working on Trump for the least, at least the last five years, trying to prime him essentially, to be an agent of Russia in the US. Did they say in this chapter who told the collector about the P-tapes, who person, was it person D or source D? Source, where is the collector here?
Starting point is 00:51:47 Okay, we got, according to source, see the Trump operation was part of Poons overall plan, so disunity, that's just another fun one, source A, stealer, poor days. So many sources. Yeah, there is. I don't know if it says exactly what source is.
Starting point is 00:52:01 I think it does say somewhere. I think later on, I think it says that the collector, the collector says source D was Sergei Million. Oh. Right? Source D. He's the guy who retained, who was retained
Starting point is 00:52:14 to locate Russians by Trump. Trump actually retained him to locate Russians to buy properties in the United States, right? Million, he had that little stupid company in the United States or whatever, like it's like eight people worked in a resuscitation business man. Yeah, and he was like a braggar though. So that was another reason people were like not sort of
Starting point is 00:52:36 willing to take the P-tap too seriously because the guy who reported on the P-tap was Million, who I guess he tends to be like a sensationalizer. Oh, well, I've done nine million things. Yeah, exactly. Also, he's described as a Trump intimate, which is always just not good. He's on our fantasy and diamond team for sure. So, over time, Steele's faith in this sex claim actually kind of fades a little bit, and then in the end, Steel says that he thinks the odds of it being real are about 50-50.
Starting point is 00:53:09 But that's just specifically the P thing. Right, because he says the whole rest of his dossier is about 790%, accurate about the PUT-50-50. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which is, you know, that's pretty bad. I mean, I think- Point flip. Yeah, it, exactly. Which is, you know, that's pretty bad. I mean, I think- Point flip. Yeah, it kind of sucks that people are like, oh, you're gonna say he got pissed on by hookers and stuff. And it's like, I get why people would think that that's an absurd
Starting point is 00:53:34 thing to- it's not the crux of this though. That's a complete misunderstanding. No, but everyone's focused on it. They were worried about the sensationalism. Exactly. And for the record, there's nothing wrong with getting peed on. I feel like that's one of the points is that it's not that the act itself is so weird. It's an America. It's pretty common. Yeah, but he also, sorry, the idea, yeah, you're right, is that he's compromised and that he feels embarrassed about it himself and that that could be used in policy. Yeah, I mean, the act itself, I think the thing thing was is that it was in the room where Obama stayed right. We had the prostitutes piss on the bed that Obama slept with. Yeah.
Starting point is 00:54:12 So it wasn't, it wasn't even a pinky-sex-gold shower situation. It was a, and when he denied it, he said that I'm too much of a germafope to do that. So he was really denying the ping on him. He wasn't denying the ping on the bed. Yeah, good point. And I actually don't, I've never once thought that he got peed on I thought He was watching them peeing on the bed. I pictured it too many times I pictured it with him getting peed on as well. It's like a chapter. Yeah, when I heard Trump and Pages Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but basically steel steel and Simpson when they meet
Starting point is 00:54:45 it's it's just basically steel and Simpson when they meet. It's just enough evidence for Simpson to compel, he's compelled to tell, we'll steal calls Michael Gata, that FBI contact on the FIFA case. And he tells him that he has something to see. They meet up, he shows him it. And then that is when Gata says the quote, that is a title of the chapter.
Starting point is 00:55:04 I have to report this to headquarters. Yeah, exactly. Very nice. Exactly. Thank you so much, Jordan. You're welcome. Very well done. Thank you, very excessively thorough. Yeah, you're 11.
Starting point is 00:55:16 And now finally chapter 12, as for the Ukraine amendment, excellent work. This chapter opens, basically describing the scene at Hillary headquarters. The day Komi was going to make his announcement about whether or not Hillary was going to be indicted on the email thing. We were all sort of watching this. So everyone gathered at home at home at Hillary headquarters, like watching the TV, like, what the fuck's going to happen? And Komi said, first of all, he said, this is unprecedented. And I rarely would make statements like this, but because of the special circumstances,
Starting point is 00:55:48 I feel the need to give details. Right? So, he said that they reviewed 30,000 emails of Hillary's and found 110 emails on 52 chains that contain classified information. And although we did not find clear evidence that Hillary violated the law, there is evidence that she was extremely careless. And those are actually harsh words from the FBI. Yeah. A lot of since Trump has become president, we've sort of lost sight of what are harsh words and what are not. But that's actually a harsh thing to say. Careless. Yeah. Yeah. And meanwhile,
Starting point is 00:56:21 the FBI was about to begin investigating Trump's campaign that we didn't know this though This is right around the time The steel memo had arrived at headquarters that same week and it had gotten the attention of counterintelligence So right around that time when they're when comies like Just that you know announcing whether or not he's gonna indict Hillary. That's when that steel report came in It's so interesting. Yeah earlier that, Carter Page was invited to speak in Moscow. And we're going to shift over to Carter Page really quickly. He was going to speak at a school in Moscow that
Starting point is 00:56:55 had direct ties to the Kremlin. The deputy prime minister of Russia, a member of the guy who Derapaska picked up in Moscow after meeting with Kalimnika Manafort and went on the yacht and stuff. The deputy prime minister of Russia, Devorkovich, was the school's chairman that Paige spoke at. And Paige had delusional aspirations of being the ambassador to Russia in a Trump White House. So he had like these big fond feelings about himself. Yeah. He'd written a ton of policy papers for the campaign, but only one was
Starting point is 00:57:25 accepted. But when Trump made the speech on that policy, none of Paige's material was used in that pissed off page. He called up Gordon, JD Gordon. He was like, what the fuck bro? And he said, you know what, I'm going to travel to Russia and make the speech. to the school and make a speech. And Gordon refused. He goes, no fucking way. So Paige hung up and he went around Gordon. And he called Lewandowski. And Lewandowski approved, but he told Paige, you can't go as a campaign representative. You can only go in your own private capacity. So Paige went and he gave his speech. He met with multiple Russians, including Davorkovich, and a guy named
Starting point is 00:58:09 Baronoff, he was a second in charge under section at Rasnaft. The book here then talks about pages running with a three man Russian spiring in 2013, right? We've all talked about this. They offered him possible energy contracts in Russia, these three guys in exchange for information, which paid, page happily supplied, right? But then he ended up getting nothing in return.
Starting point is 00:58:36 One of the spies called him an idiot and said, quote, he said, quote, you promise a favor for a favor. You get the documents, then you tell him to go fuck himself. Yeah, he got played. That's what you do with... That seems like Carter Page. Yeah. That seems like such an obvious thing to do. I'm surprised more people don't do that way. Yeah. I'm going to start viewing it that way. I'm running into that. I'm running into that. In 2015, two years later, the FBI brought charges against these three Russians. Two of them fled and one of them went to prison.
Starting point is 00:59:06 Page was not charged in the case, but the operation had placed him on the FBI's radar screen. Like, we should watch this guy. He's clearly a target for the Russians. He wants to sell energy in Russia. He wants to do contracts in Russia. He wants to do contracts in Russia. I think, you know, they're like, he's compromised. He's an asset. His trip to Moscow made the FBI wonder if one of Trump's campaign advisors
Starting point is 00:59:34 was being manipulated by the Kremlin, right? Maybe he's being, you know. So at the Republican National Convention in Cleveland, Trump's weird relationship with Russia was not discussed, but his ties to Moscow were sort of like hanging out in the background, right? Because Flynn did an interview with Yahoo News on the first day, like Yahoo had a tent, right? And then he hung out and he's like, what's up, mom Flynn? And on the first day of the convention with a reporter named Michael Isikov, who is one of the authors of this book, where Isikov asked him if he'd recently been paid by RT for speaking at one
Starting point is 01:00:10 of their events, RT being Russian television and state television. And he sat and didn't you recently go to this event, weren't you paid by Russia and didn't you sit with Putin at like a next to Putin at the table? And Flynn denied it. He was like, no, I don't even know. He sounded like Manafort and our open-incredits. The credits, he's like, I, that's not my position. He said, I didn't take any money from the Russians.
Starting point is 01:00:35 And Issacov said, well, who paid you? And he goes, you're going to have to talk to my speaking agency. And then he goes, I'm speaking. So what if I did take money? Anyway, Isakoff published the story and Flynn then wrote him like a pissy email about it. And he's like, what the shit dude? I just wrote a book saying, Russia was a dick.
Starting point is 01:00:56 So Flynn would later give the speech at the RNC, where he'd lead the crowd in chance of lock her up. In some of the speech. Yeah. Now Pence would also give a speech slamming Hillary Clinton and Obama for feigning resets with Russia and playing fast and loose with confidential information. And I actually don't blame him for the way Obama handled Russia.
Starting point is 01:01:20 Not Hillary because Hillary was like, come on dude, let's fuck with him. But Obama was like, let's be cool. Yeah. Um, so his speech included that, but then also he was saying that, that, that, you know, because of Hillary's emails that they, she sucked at Hamilton confidential information because Trump is so good at it. Yeah.
Starting point is 01:01:38 Um, and then he said that Trump would stand up for our allies, even though later that night in a spontaneous New York Times interview, Trump would indicate he might not honor NATO obligations, which is just what Putin wanted to hear and what everyone else in the world was like. Yeah, destabilizing alliances. Oh, God, yeah. Anyway, during the convention, multiple Trump aids, of all the aids that you could catch, Trump aids would be the worst. Do you have Trump aids, of all the aids that you could catch, Trump aids would be the worst. Oh.
Starting point is 01:02:05 Do you have Trump aids? Yeah. Oh, no. Oh, that's a bummer. Yeah, tough luck. Trump aids met with Kisleyak, including sessions, page, and Gordon. Like, oh, you know, no big deal.
Starting point is 01:02:19 And honestly, meeting with a Russian ambassador made me not a big deal, but why the fuck is the Russian ambassador, Russian ambassador at the Republican, but why the fuck is the Russian ambassador? Russian ambassador at the Republican ask so many Russians. Yeah, and why so many Russians? US intel would intercept a call, Kislyak made back to Russia after the convention, telling them about how he spoke with sessions and discussed Trump's position on policy matters of concern to the Russian government.
Starting point is 01:02:41 So fuck you. Basically. No, I did not have any contacts with the Russians at that. to the Russian government. So fuck you. Basically. No, I did not have any contacts with the Russians at that time. I've been called a surrogate at the time of two. I did not, yeah, whatever. We intercepted conversations of Kislyak calling Russia back saying, I talked to this fucking guy and he told me,
Starting point is 01:03:01 some shit you won't even believe. In the weeks leading up to the convention, there was like this bitter fight about the platform policy on Ukraine, right? And Gordon, JD Gordon, was assigned to monitor the process to make sure Trump's policies were honored. So enter a Dana-Denman. She's an actress or Republican, whatever. And Ted Cruz, she was a Ted Cruz advocate, but she was staunchly against Russian meddling in Ukrainian elections
Starting point is 01:03:28 and the annexation of Crimea. She was really, she was a hardliner on Russia. She was there to intensify sanctions against Russia and to, and her, she wanted to put a thing in the, in the GOP platform that she wanted to lethally arm the Ukrainians against Russia. So Gordon began questioning her language and then made a call to John Mashburn and Jordan you talked about this in the main episode. And then another aid made a call to Rick Deerborn. And Rick Deerborn showed up and he made sure the language about arm in the Ukraine was removed. Ridiculous. Yeah. So this prompted media attention. Wondering if Manafort was involved, given his past association with, you know,
Starting point is 01:04:08 propoten Ukrainian separatists, but there was no evidence that Manafort was involved. So we'll find that out soon enough. Yeah. But Paige shot Gordon an email saying, as for the Ukraine amendment, excellent work. Oh my god, hell yeah. So they completely just took that lethal arm, arming the Ukrainians out. She wiped it out. And most Republicans were for that. Yeah. Anti-Russian. Most Republicans are anti-Russian. GOP right now. This is not the same group of Republicans. Yeah, it's a different one. It's very different. Anyway, that's the end of chapter 12. It's getting good.
Starting point is 01:04:50 It is. I'm actually kind of personally concerned for my mental well-being when I have to read 13 through 15, 16. Oh my God. We'll see how it goes. Man, thanks for joining us, you guys. This is awesome. And we only have, I think, two weeks left of this.
Starting point is 01:05:07 Yeah, but then we got Comey's higher loyalty. A higher loyalty. Yeah. I think he's doing a book tour and he's doing all these lectures. He's gonna be on TV a lot. Please come to San Diego Comey. He is, but tickets are like 8.50. It's like Hamilton's, oh he's big time now.
Starting point is 01:05:21 He's like Hamilton's, he's famous. Where the fuck does that money go? Uh-huh. To his beautiful Comey. To his seat. I don't know. What he's big time now Hamilton's in the cave's retirement fine. There you go There's a go fun me for that by the Andy. We love you. He's over half a million dollars for that I'm down. I love it anyone wants to send any of that to us. We be happy to you know, whatever you want Take that and so sweet Watching the like the money meter take up and him just crying Single justice to you. It's single McCabe justice cheer. I have awesomeness
Starting point is 01:06:01 You guys are amazing. Thank you so much for listening. I've been AG. I'm Jolissa Johnson. I'm Jordan Coburn. This is Muller She wrote. Muller She wrote is produced and engineered by AG with editing and mixing by Jolissa Johnson, market consulting by Amanda Reader at Unicorn Creative.
Starting point is 01:06:26 Our digital media director and subscriber manager is Jordan Coburn. Fact checking and research by A.G. with support from Jolissa Johnson and Jordan Coburn. Our web design and creative is by Joel Reader with Moxie Design Studios, and our website is moresheroat.com. Hi, I'm Harry Littman, host of Talking Feds. Around Table, it brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day. Each Monday, I'm joined by a slate of Feds favorites and new voices. To break down the headlines and give the insiders view of what's going on in Washington
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