Jack - Sauce for the Goose (feat. Katie Phang)

Episode Date: February 3, 2020

Today, an update on the impeachment of Donald Trump, a new filing in the Concord Management Mueller case, new filings in the Flynn case, and an interview with MSNBC contributor and trial lawyer Katie Phang.

Hey, it's Kimberly Host of The Start Me Up Podcast. If you like your politics with some loose talk and salty language, you're going to love my show. I interview the coolest people like Mary Trump, Kathy Griffin, and DNC Chair Jamie Harrison. The Start Me Up Podcast has an easy-going, casual style and a strong emphasis on left-leaning politics. We also have Frank discussions about sex

and more than a few spirited rants. Just visit patreon.com slash start me up or wherever you get your podcast and start listening today. Thanks to Beta Brand for supporting Miller She wrote. Do you have a to-do list that never seems to end? Running from a flight street to a meeting still have to cook dinner for yourself?

Beta Brand's dress pant yoga pants are the perfect office home and anywhere your day takes you pants. Right now our listeners can get 20% off their first order when you go to betabrand.com slash AG. And thanks to Best Fiends for supporting Mueller She Wrote. Best Fiends is a unique and exciting puzzle experience unlike any other puzzle games out there. Best Fiends updates a game monthly with new levels and events so it never gets old. Download free on the Apple App Store

or Google Play. And thanks to Baked by Melissa for supporting Mueller She Wrote. Baked by Melissa makes bite-sized cupcakes in an array of unique handcrafted flavors. Go to bakedbymelissa.com and use promo code AG to get 15% off your order. Hey all, this is Glenn Kirschner, and you're listening to Mueller clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said.

That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities. I have been called a surrogate at a time or two in that campaign and I didn't have, not have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with food that campaign, and I didn't have, not have, communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for having nothing to do with Putin? I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother

than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green. Communism is just a red herring. Like all members of the oldest profession I'm a capitalist. Hello and welcome to Muller She Road. I'm your host, A.G. and with me today is Jordan Coburn.

Hello. How are you? I'm better. You still sound a little... Yes. Oh yeah. All right. Gosh, like they were afraid you had pneumonia, right? Yeah, I mean, told me to come back if I still had a cough in, you know, a while. So we'll see. I'll on like day seven at this point. But you're feeling better. You're just feeling better. Yeah, my cough is just disgusting. Don't sound that bad. No one should have this much flint. No, no, no. Milk and cheese doesn't help, which are my two favorite things. So I had pizza last night. Yeah, that's...

That's my go-to-sick food to treat myself, but it's actually now treating myself. It's harming myself. I go to those little packets of lip-dened noodles soup. They probably are made of not food. Oh, and... That's the best kind of food though. But like, and grilled cheese. And just like that and like watching the prices, right? Yeah. Yeah. Maybe old reruns with Bob Barker

Oh, I haven't thought about that man in a while. Yeah, that's that was my stay-at-home sick. Yeah, I love that guy remedy Yes, and for some reason everyone spay a new year animals It felt like for some reason that that show took like four hours The kid like because you'd watch it, but that felt like it took up most of your day. Yeah, just because it was money. You're like, ah, I hate this shit. We do have a great show for you today, including an update on the impeachment of Donald Trump, new filing in the Concord Management Mueller case, new filings in the Flynn case, and an

interview with MSNBC contributor and trial lawyer Katie Fang, where we discussed the ongoing investigations in the courts and in the house into the administration's misconduct and what we might expect between now and the election. As you can see, we made a mistake. Okay, so from Vicki, she says you keep me sane. Thank you. On the subject of Chief Justice John Roberts, A.G. had mentioned that he isn't fulfilling his duties in the impeachment trial. According to many media outlets, including a 30-minute long episode of Article 2 devoted to this topic, Roberts has no real power here.

Any action he takes can be overruled by a Senate majority anyway, so he's really staying above the phrase, so as not to appear partisan. I think he's doing the right thing, and to be honest, really the only thing he can do to preserve the one sane-ish branch of the government we have left. Also, she closes with you all very funny. I love the Gen X versus millennial banter. I'm just a few years older than AG. Yeah. Thank you. Yes. And from Ben Taylor for what it's worth, the Scottish independence probably isn't going to happen. The vote by the MSPs, which are members of the Scottish parliament, I was right, was symbolic. Along party lines would require approval from the UK government, which has already said it won't grant. Plus, there is no evidence that we as a population want it. We rejected independence

in a referendum in 2015. Scottish independence in my opinion is also a Russian thing, and the breakup of the UK is in Putin's interest. Same tactics as Brexit and Trump. This is Alex. He says Alex Salmond, former Scottish minister, now works for RT. I didn't know that. Next, on the meaning of the word doff from Elizabeth Davis, Steve Payne Darcy Cohen, Ali M. Jeff Kitter, Guendina DeLittora, Alex Murdock, Cody Katelyn and O'Connell, John Hall, Eric, Routabush, Michael Andron, Chris McCants, Gary Mansfield, KG Billingsley, Madison Oberg, Victoria Hopkins, Kathy Buckley, Guy Chapman,

Gailin Taxi, Richard Duel, Delwisch, and Anita Woodard. They all say, well, one of them said, I learned so much from you, I was excited to hear something I could contribute to, small as it is, from the 129 episode. Dough is a real word. It's a little archaic and it's old English, but it doesn't mean to remove an item of clothing or something you are wearing from the body. Don and Doff are as related as they sound. They are contractions of Do-On and Do-Off. People used to Doff their cap whenever a swanky lord or a factory owner came upon.

Yes, or like Trubbed, doffing his guilt. Do-Off. From Anonymous, thank you for that correction. By the way, from Anonymous, correction on the pronunciation of President Xi. I appreciate your end up political analysis, but also the OG gay references that are sprinkled throughout the podcast. Ever after quotes, Mean Girls, the bird cage need I go on. A.G. loves the gays and the gays love A.G.

So I work as a Chinese translator and an interpreter having studied the language for more than 10 years. Your podcast helps me through many work days in Taipei, Taiwan. Chinese president Xi Jinping, not to be confused with fierce Taiwanese president, Sai Ying Wen, pronounces his name like Xi with an S, Xi not G. Think she doesn't even go here. That's just an example. In the context we understand.

Xi Jinping doesn't even go here. Cool. Thank you. All right, those are corrections. If you have one, head to mullershirope.com, click contact and select corrections, build us a compliment sandwich. We'll get it right eventually. We have a lot of news to get to, so let's jump in with just the facts.

All right, so I have a quick impeachment update for you. For a more detailed information, on the impeachment, follow our sister podcast at Daily Beans pod and search for the daily beans wherever you listen and subscribe. Sister broadcast if it was the same sister. Yes. Clone. Clone pod. If you're a patron of this pod, you will get early ad free episodes of the Daily Beans. Just check that out if you want if you're interested at patreon.com slash mullichiro. As most of you know, the Senate voted Friday to block witnesses and documents in the impeachment trial of Donald John Trump after two days of questions from the senators. From the Washington Post, they have six of the most interesting and consequential

questions from senators starting with Alan Dershowitz answering a question from Romney, Murkowski, and Collins about what they should do if they deduce Trump had both official and personal motives for his actions regarding Ukraine. Phil had been went first on this and responded saying that regardless of personal motives as long as Trump had any official motive, it's not impeachable. This reminds me of this Mitch Hedberg joke. So, hey, you extorted Ukraine to get investigation. Like you get you to carrot with an onion ring, then they would travel down to your stomach, then they would get there, then the carrot would say, it's cool, he's with me. So, hey, you extorted Ukraine to get investigations into the Biden's.

Yeah, but I also wanted to fight corruption, so it's all good. Except for when asked if anyone, anyone on the Trump side could cite any other corrupt activities Trump was looking into, they couldn't come up with one. So, the French fry, are they onion ring carrot thing doesn't really apply here. And then Captain Underpants, Alan Dershowitz later expanded on that argument, saying even a president trying to help his own reelection bid could be construed as working in the public interest, not impeachable. Next we have Seculo who when asked who pays Giuliani couldn't come up with an answer and instead

pivoted back to Biden saying You're concerned about what Rudy was doing when he was over there trying to determine what was going on with Ukraine Yes, asshole Then when Chris Coons asked whether Trump considers foreign interference illegal Philbin said nah Mirror information doesn't violate campaign finance laws. We know that not to be true And then came what I thought was the biggest stunner of the day when shift caught Filman acknowledging that Giuliani was not carrying out foreign policy because he was asked if

he was violating the Logan act. And as we all know, the Logan act is the thing that says you can't carry out foreign policy if you're not working for the government. And Filman had to say Giuliani wasn't conducting foreign policy because were he he would have to admit he's being paid by the president or he would be implicating Giuliani on a violation of a Logan act. So then shift seized upon this and said oh really Giuliani was not conducting foreign policy so you admit this Ukraine shadow policy was not official US policy cool bro that was a really good official US policy. Cool, bro. That was a really good sort of way to box him into that. Because like I said, if he was conducting for a foreign policy, he either has to be paid or he's violating the

Logan Act. And they don't want to admit how they're paying him. Right. Yeah, exactly. So, ha ha. Another revelation came when Collins and Murkowski asked if Trump was concerned about the Biden's prior to 2019. And they of course said they did not have anything on the record they could point to. And then finally, Manchin asked, quote, even Dershowitz said in 1998, that an impeachable offense doesn't have to be a crime. What has happened in the past 22 years to change the original intent of the framers and the historic meaning of the term high crimes and misdemeanors? And Captain Underpants said, well, I used to be dumb,

and then I did some more research and changed my mind. Interesting that the question came from Manchin, who's probably the most Republican Democrat in the Senate. And then of course, after all that, the Senate still voted to block witnesses and documents with Collins and Romney defecting to vote with Democrats in a 51 to 49 vote. It's important to note that those 49 senators

represent 19 million more people than the 51. Senators represent land, not people. Interesting. A deal was then struck with Schumer and McConnell that the final vote would not occur until after the State of the Union, and that the senators must tell the public why they voted the way they did. I have surprised that they let this happen. So those speeches will happen Monday and Tuesday. I suspect Schumer said, look, if you don't allow this to happen, I'm just going to push this until forever with amendments. And you will just have to keep tabling them on into eternity. And so you have to do this. I want the senators to come on the floor and justify their vote in public, because I don't think that happened in the Clinton trial. I think they were deposed behind closed doors for those. And I want this to be on Wednesday.

I want it to be after state of the union. So I guess I, you know, that sort of, that little bit of leverage that they had left, sort of shoved, McConnell in a box. Of course, more information has come out, including Bolton saying Trump told him to help shake down Ukraine.

And that Cipolloni was in the room where it happened, hence the name of the book. And he now faces an ethics investigation for not revealing his knowledge of facts because he's now a fact witness in this case. And Parnaus is also coming out with more information, including implicating Lindsey Graham in the scheme. The Senate did, however, accept a motion that no new evidence would be allowed to be considered in the record in the vote on Wednesday.

So whatever comes out this weekend, can't be officially entered into the record. Yeah. And we'll talk more about this with Katie Fang later in the interview. So that's what's going on. There's a big bummer in to the week. Yeah, yeah, it really was. It was. I mean, I'm happy about the two senators, I guess, but I don't know. I'm obviously mitigated happiness. I personally think that Morkowski probably wanted to vote for witnesses and documents as probably did Lamar Alexander and they were told they couldn't because they have no control

over Romney and he was going to vote with Democrats. And Collins was probably in more political trouble in Maine than Morkowski was in Alaska and Lamar Alexander's leaving. So they were like, I'm sure that that was very calculated. I don't think they voted the way they wanted to. I think they voted the way the party wanted to vote. Yeah. We do have a lot more news to get to and we will be right back with that. So hang out and stick around and stay with us and all those other things. Hey, everybody. It's A.G. In this episode of Mourishy Road

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That's 20% off your first order at betabrand.com slash AG. Millions of women agree, these are the most comfortable pair of pants you'll ever wear to work. Go to betabrand.com slash AG for 20% off now. You'll be glad you did. Okay, so here's some old school Mueller news in this block. go to betabrand.com slash AG for 20% off now. You'll be glad you did. Okay, so here's some old school Mueller news in this block. We have a new filing from the Concord Management case.

Concord Management, as you know, is a foregusion owns, and he was running the internet research agency. This goes all the way back to the old school Mueller, the simpler Mueller times. Yeah, the OG infiltration. According to the filing from Concord, and then they're responding to a government's filing

about what evidence it wants to use in this case, Concord is saying that the government should be limited in providing evidence that the Russian government sponsored the alleged conspiracy. The alleged conspiracy being hacking the elections, what they're indicted for. Yeah, do you know what courtroom you're in? It is not alleged here.

Very well established. We've determined a thing. Concord says quote, but the government then complicates the matters by asserting that Concord appears to be asking for more, arguing that Concord's request could even include corporate registration documents filed with a Russian government agency, but no rational reading of Concord's motion

could lead to this conclusion. Unquote. They go on to of Concord's motion could lead to this conclusion. They go on to say Concord's motion is limited to a connection between the Russian government and the alleged conspiracy, not every incidental mention of the country or government of Russia, and they don't object specifically to the government's proper that it be allowed to introduce limited evidence for the purpose of proving the identities of the alleged co-conspirators and the connections between them. So we're thinking you have to get any pregozion and all the other, you know, 12 or 13 russians that were indicted there. What Concord is asking is to exclude any arguments referring to pregozion as Putin's chef,

or Putin's cook, because they say it's irrelevant and prejudicial. The government, yeah, the government argued they should be able to use those terms because they're not just publicly known, but those terms were also used by members of the conspiracy and by an unwitting American. And they go on to say that's misleading because the only mention of Progoshan and Putin's chef or Putin's cook refers to a giant redacted piece of information that we can't see. The government also argues that those nicknames are probative, that progozion led and oversaw the internet research agency. He did.

And Concord argues that it's entirely unnecessary for the government to draw that connection. Further, the court should consider that even if those are his nicknames, whether the probative value is substantially outweighed by the danger of any prejudice in the case, and whether the use of the nicknames is truly needed to identify the defendant, connect him to the crime or prove some other matter of significance. So, Concord Manage and Insane, you can't call him Putin-Chef. Come on, bro, it's not fair. It seems like a small detail for them to be hung up on.

I think... Considering the entirety of the case, that's against them. And I honestly think that this whole Concord Management case, which at first we thought was used to just sort of throw a ranch in and get some materials that they could forge and say that they were able to hack Mueller. Remember that? I think they're just really trying to tie the courts up. So basically the government will put out a filing.

They'll respond and they'll just want to keep doing this, but I think that you only get a couple of replies and surreplies to different motions. So they are limited, but I honestly think that... Groose wastes time. I think they're just wasting time. They're just trolling in real life.

Yeah, although they're the internet to the courtroom. Although I can see that it probably looks real bad for Progoshan to call him Putin chef. Yeah, but it's like how is that not I mean the basis of that Yeah, like well even when it's mentioned though you said it's redacted Well, it's redacted probably in the mention of the when the unwitting American mentions it I'm assuming that's been been redacted so that we don't know who the unwitting American mentions it. I'm assuming that's been redacted so that we don't know who that unwitting American is. But I don't know if the Department of Justice redacted that when they released this filing with the courts redacted

it when they released this filing or Concord Management redacted it once the filing was released. I can't really even guess what's underneath. It's also one of those things where I don't think it's like super necessary, the prosecutions case either really. So it seems like, I don't know, will they just let them, I wonder how the judge gets to rule on that. Yeah, or the government might come back and say, yeah, you're fine, we're fine. Yeah, everyone knows who he is.

Everyone knows Progoshin is Putin-Chef. We don't have to say it. Mm-hmm. You know, it just seems like they're just wasting time. Yeah. Fill a bus during the courts. Yep. Uh, let's see what else we have.

And who filing in the House Ways and Means Committee case. This is the one to get Trump's tax returns in their pursuit to determine the effectiveness of the presidential tax audit program. The judge presiding over this case is a Trump appointee named Trevor McFadden who has been sitting on this case for months now, uh, saying he wants to hear the outcome of the McGahn case before he makes his ruling, insinuating that the two cases are somehow... Yeah, what? ...a like.

I suppose the argument could be made that since the McGahn case is about separation of powers and the house ways and means is getting Trump's taxes is also kind of sort of a separation of powers case that he might want to hear one like the ruling on one before the other But I don't see how the house ways and means tax cases are all a separation of powers case since the law is clear The president is waiting and abundant and this is about getting a citizens tax returns not the tax returns of the executive branch So I don't see how this is a separation of powers other than Trump happens to be the president Right and that might be what their angle is. Yeah, or that, uh, yeah, that it's an executive privilege thing, maybe in both cases.

Yeah, like he's the president. He happens to be the president and you want his taxes. Yeah. He's not just a regular old citizen. To a lot of folks, this seems like nothing more than, again, a delay tactic being carried out by a Trump appointed judge to slow roll the release of his tax returns. So the government filed a thing asking Trevor to immediately lift the stay while he waits for the McGand decision.

He's like, all right, you want to wait for the McGand decision? That's cool. But can you lift the stay that's preventing the tax returns from coming to us? I don't think this gambit will work, but I think it's a good poke at the courts to shitter good off the pot. Fisher cut bait will keep you posted on how Trevor responds. And I forget what do you remember what the timeline is for the McGann decision? Yeah, it's gonna be argued on March 31st and the, oh wait no, I think McGann is

still in the appellate court. Okay, but we'll probably get we'll probably get that decision in June. The first half of the year, though. And in June. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Ugh, so fucking long. I know. I know. I know. Especially in an impeachment inquiry, which is still open and happening.

Right. And it's still taking this long. Also in the news, an impeached Trump stood next to an indicted Netanyahu, and they unveiled their Middle East peace plan. And it's the two-state solution. That's what Kushner's been working so hard on for three years, some shit that's been tried a bunch already. We learned shortly after that that the Palestinian leadership

was not at all consulted. And when we had Amy Carrero on the daily beans this week, she joked that maybe the two states in the two state solution were Israel and the United States. Well, yesterday, Reuters reported that the Palestinian authority has cut all ties with the United States and Israel, including those relating to security, after rejecting the Middle East peace plan, President Trump, the Middle East peace plan, presented by Trump, and this is from the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas.

He said this on Saturday. The blueprint calls for the creation of a demilitarized Palestinian state that excludes Jewish settlements built in occupied territory and is under near total Israeli security control. Yep. So from Reuters, they say, quote, Israel and the Palestinian Authority security forces have long cooperated in policing areas in the occupied West Bank that are under Palestinian control. The PA also has intelligence cooperation agreements with the CIA, which continued even after the Palestinians began boycotting the Trump administration's peace efforts in 2017. Abbas also said he had refused to discuss the plan with Trump by phone or even receive a copy to study it. He says, quote, Trump asked that I speak to him by

phone, but I said no, and that he wants to send me a letter, but I refused it. Abbas said he did not want Trump to be able to say that he, uh, Abbas had been consulted. Yes. He reiterated his complete rejection of the Trump plan presented on Tuesday, quote, I will not have it recorded in my history that I sold Jerusalem. That's really powerful. And it's so shitty that with him acting, you him acting out of dignity, he's going to be shat on by a lot of media outlets in ways that probably are not going to do as good of a job as you

just did reporting that story and how it actually went down. Well, thank you. Yeah. A lot of big ups to Reuters on that too. Yeah, yeah, totally. But just the reality of them not being consulted at all all what I didn't even think about what he just said Which is true if Trump talked to him at all he would have spun that I consulted with a Exactly and then it's it's like in no way a win for the Palestinian people at all. No, it's completely is really controlled. Yeah

Security forces in the area and stuff. So it's it's it's I Don't even understand. Like they're rolling out, it would be like a five came and been like, hey, I've got a great new social media platform. It's called MySpace. Yeah. No, wait, it gets better. I haven't talked to anybody at MySpace about it.

Yeah, what do you think? Yeah, exactly. MySpace. Literally. I miss MySpace. Yeah. Those were the days from the top four, the top four days. My space literally I miss my space. Yeah Those were the days on top four the top four days. Yeah, and then they went to 12. Oh God That made it that really really filled a lot of pressure on on the Caddies though. Yeah

Really but you could have your song play when yeah, I opened up your profile. I love that shit your little blogs That's what the days all right Here's some really awesome news Trump is loose and restrictions on the use of land mines That's it. Your little blogs. That's with the days. All right. Here's some really awesome news. Trump has loosened restrictions on the use of landmines, which have been banned by more than 160 countries due to their history of killing and wounding civilians, undoing Obama policy and acted in 2014 that largely adhered to the 1997 Ottawa Convention that banned the use, stockpiling, production, and transfer of anti-personal landmines. Esper defended the move saying landmines are an important tool needed to protect troops

because I guess it's 1915. I used to march forward and donate to a lot of charities that were against, that were working on the Ottawa Convention because of all the children that were missing limbs and it was absolutely horrific what landmines do to people. And also, like, friendly fire deaths to... Yeah, they would enjoy our own personnel as well. And so that's something that Trump also just done did.

It's pretty much anything that Obama did, he's just going to try to undo it. Yeah, it's gross. Now we have more show to get to later. Like I said, in the interview, we have Trial Lawyer and MSNBC Legal Contributor Katie Fang. She's joining us to talk about the ongoing investigations into the Trump administration. You'll definitely want to stick around for that. And after this quick break, we have our hot notes on Noah

and Michael Flynn. So stay with us. Hey, everybody, it's AG. And as you know, my whole life is pretty much dominated by politics, but even I need a break from the drama from time to time. So when I feel like I need a mental palette cleanser, my go-to refresher is best fiends. It's an amazingly fun game app that's free to download.

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They have fun characters and great puzzles. You basically, you collect a ton of characters. You need to use them strategically for each level. The great thing is you can spend as much or little time as you'd like in the game. I play when traveling or when I'm really just sort of fed up with people claiming you don't need evidence or witnesses to have a fair trial. I am now on level 78 so I can I love it I love it a lot and it's not time so I haven't stressed. They

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Hot notes. All right, welcome back. Over the weekend, we got a trove of emails from Noah about Sharpie Gate and Jordan, you have that story for us. We all remember Sharpie Gate to Antway. So yeah, a bunch of documents were released Friday that shed light on how Trump's erratic response. That's really the only way to describe that, I think, just flandering an ignorance and throwing lightning bolts at anyone that tries to even not even call him out directly. Just get the truth out there. They were just in his complete line of fire. But this response was in response to Hurricane Dorian, and what his response did was shake up top officials and scientists at NOAA. That's the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

This all happened back in September. We have the documents thanks again to FOIA requests by the Washington Post and other news outlets. So big ups to FOIA and all of those agencies you're here is in the stay niche. The documents show that the second highest official at the agency said that neither he or the acting administrator okayed a statement that a NOAA spokesperson put out September six that criticized the national weather service office for contradicting Trump's inaccurate claim that Alabama would most likely be hit much harder than anticipated. So basically, if just a refresher memory, he puts out this false information.

A statement is then issued saying, no, no, it wasn't. Basically, yeah, he drew the Sharpie thing. Everyone went, what the fuck did you just draw on a map? And then Noah came out and released a statement, right? It's saying Trump's right. It's cool. He was right. Alabama could be, it could have been a problem.

Yes. Yes. Sorry. I should clarify. The public was in outrage. And then there was no anticipated upholding of science. There was upholding of the president. And it's pretty widely held within the organization that that happened because of political pressure from the White House and the Department of Commerce. This is a quote from someone in the agency that said, please accept Niels replies this sincere acknowledgement

of a press release we did not approve of or support. You know from my multiple messages to you and your colleagues that we respect and stand behind your service in scientific integrity." End quote. The Post also reported that the pressure to release the statement came from Mick Mulvaney. So he's popping up. The emails also reveal that the pressure to release the statement came from Mick Mulvaney. So he's popping up.

The emails also reveal that emails were being exchanged between high-level employees that seemed to circle around the idea of them wanting to resign over the debacle and that they were encouraging the other to stay, to hang in there, and to try to keep the integrity within the organization and basically just to hang on. So basically what's revealed is that, what's something feels a little off, I think it is, and it was probably demanded by the White House, and that is terrifying, and these emails prove it.

Yeah, these emails prove it. Yeah, and it's just sad to read the actual language from these people who have worked really hard, and they're fucking scientists, and they try to remain very apolitical, and just like watching them get dragged into all of this. who have worked really hard and they're fucking scientists and they try to remain very apolitical and just like watching them get dragged into all of this. It's just really sad that they have to even concern themselves with this sort of PR. It's effectively like a PR stunt that the White House, you know, I didn't start as a stunt

more just a snap, you know, a faux pas that then it turned into this entire PR project and they're putting out statements and and then Noah's, you know, expected to respond and they are holding off on it because they're like, how do we even do this? Meanwhile, McMovaney swoops in, somehow gets Noah to respond with the statement. That's totally uncharacteristic. Then there's people that lose trust in NOAA. And it's not their fault. That's kind of what these emails are showing is whose fault even was this? And please don't buy God from this reporting that we should not fault NOAA.

Yeah, and there's a lot of this going on in the government in the executive branch specifically. But at all levels, where everyone's just sort of scrambling like, do I resign? I can't do this. They want me to do this. Should I stay here and try to protect the agency that I work for? Should I resign? Should I, what do I do?

I don't know what to do here. Also, it's my career and my money in my life. Gosh, I don't know anything about that from personal experience whatsoever. Yeah, it's really sad. All will be revealed in due time. But yeah, that's going on across agencies. Yeah, and then I'm thinking of the other reporting we were doing even on like the National Archives, just with that's the woman's March photo that was blurred out to, you know, omit things that were detrimental to Trump's image.

Yeah. And stuff like that where it's like, there are these federally funded agencies that we do not want to have politics tainting how they operate. And time and time again, they are. And every time it happens, it feels very very fishy and then we find out that it was Probably because of some sort of pressure from some sort of higher ups That's yet to be determined with a national archive story, but it's it's hard to it's hard to Imagine that it didn't come from something that was higher up than than where they're at, you know

Yeah, because it doesn't seem like it's in their interest to turn away from the truth in all of these cases Yeah, these are independent agencies that do their jobs and To do something like that Has to you have to be told by someone to do it. Mm-hmm. You think And so we Hundred times out of a hundred. It's coming from it's coming from the White House to make Trump not look bad. Yeah It's scary. Yes, it definitely is.

And there's more scary stuff on the way because my hot note is about the Flynn case, because we got some news this week on the Flynn case. As we all know, let's backtrack a little bit. Flynn was supposed to be sentenced initially in December of 2018, but he took the strong hint from Sullivan, the judge, that he should go forth and cooperate more. He asked him six times, do you, do you, I don't think you want me to do this today. And finally, he took the hint.

Okay. And so, and he did go and forth and cooperate more, at least for a little while. He was going to be the star witness in the B. Jan Rafiki and Orbizhan Kihan Farah case. He's the guy that partnered with Flynn to lobby for Turkey without registering his foreign agent. But Flynn decided to fire his normal lawyers and hire a batshit crazy fox news Muller conspiracy theorist named Sydney Powell. And just like that, he went from a cooperating witness in the Rafiki in case to a co-conspirator in the Rafiki in case. Rafiki in's conviction was actually thrown out for lack of evidence, and the Department of Justice is appealing that decision, but perhaps without Flynn as a witness, their case might not make it,

despite obvious guilt, from both Rafiki and in Flynn. So the Flynn sentencing kept getting pushback and pushback until finally Flynn then filed to ask Sullivan if he could withdraw his guilty plea saying he didn't lie to the FBI because he was tricked. This is something that he adamantly admitted over and over again to in that first sentencing hearing with Sullivan. And then the government filed asking for more time to submit a follow-up sentencing memo saying we need more time, we need a little bit, we're having other people review this shit, we need more time to figure out what to do with this asshole. So they were granted that extension for a week. It didn't at that time push back the January 28th sentencing, which has passed and has been rescheduled for February 28th,

but at the time they pushed back a week to January 21st. And then they were, they filed that they were no longer recommending no jail time. And instead they were recommending they filed that they were no longer recommending no jail time. And instead they were recommending the max for his one count of lying to the FBI, which is 0 to 6 months according to the sentencing guidelines. We're recommending the max. I know 0 to 6 months doesn't sound like a max, but that's the max for what he did. But just recently, Department of Justice, which is run by Bill Barr, amended that filing, saying two things.

We still recommend 0 to 6 months, but secondly, we think probation is still on the table, namely because Flynn was a general and he served his country. And there are a few cases in the past where the courts have granted downward variance on sentencing because the criminal was also in the military. And they cited the general Patreus case among a few others. But here's the rub. My first thought is the bars behind this.

Bar is teeing up for a probation to let Flynn off the hook at the direction of Trump because Trump probably shouldn't pardon anyone in his current impugnate state. But there are also does anything stop him though. No, yeah. But there are also theories out there that the DOJ is baiting Sullivan here because Sullivan has said in the past that he disagrees with downward variance for service members, specifically he disagreed with the sentencing in the Patreus case. Interesting.

So it's one of two things. Either bar interfered here to help Flynn out without knowing Sullivan has a distaste for people asking for leniency because of the, they were a uniform, or the US Attorney in DC knows Sullivan's propensity for disagreeing with downward variants for service members and did this to poke at him in hopes for a harsher sentence or for not probation. Hmm.

Interesting. Two very different roots there. I find it interesting that he's against that sort of view of lessening a sentence for a service member. Maybe it's sort of a, we hold you to a higher standard sort of mentality, right? That's probably what it is, I imagine, which I agree with. As do I? Yeah, that's kind of a strange notion that you would get more of a pass on breaking laws.

Yeah, it's like, not only do you know the laws more than everyone, but you uphold them. You fought to uphold them. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so that's just an interesting, really interesting question. I know that Marcy Wheeler did a whole piece on, I think they're trying to poke Sullivan to say that it's good guys at the Department of Justice who are saying, hey Sullivan, come on man, you could give him probation,

you could give him zero months, you know, because he wore a uniform like Patreus, knowing that he's come out against that in the past publicly. Yeah, do they use reverse psychology in the courts? It's a weird thing to comprehend it to me. Yeah, well, just because it's such a gamble, it's not like advocating for a certain legal opinion, it's gambling on them having a certain reaction to it. I think it's more likely bar interfering on behalf of Trump. Yeah, I agree.

And either not knowing about the Patreous thing or knowing about it and putting it in there is sort of a leave me alone Trump. Yeah. Like, okay, I'll put that in there, Mr. Trump. And Donald Trump doesn't know about the Patreous thing, but bar does. I don't know that that would even be a thing though. Yeah, I am curious about the pardon thing though. Like you said, you would think he wouldn't want to go down that red right now but who fucking knows? No. And in the other hand, he could feel emboldened now more than ever. Yeah, like how could it possibly get worse? Mm-hmm. Probably the tax returns, but yeah. And we'll see what happens with that.

Ugh. All right, you ready for sabotage? Yes. So today's sabotage, there was a bit of a wrench into Flynn's case and what we just went over. Flynn's case is being prosecuted by the US Attorney's Office in DC, which is overseen by Jesse Liu. Now, we know Barr tried to remove Jesse Liu by offering her a position

at the Department of Justice, number three at Department of Justice Associate Assistant Attorney General or something. Last year, tried to get her out of there and she refused. And that was right around the time he couldn't get that office to indict Andy McCabe. So we were all like, why are you trying to get rid of Jesse Liu? Why aren't you closing the case into Andy McCabe when the grand jury didn't return to indictment? Weird city. Well, he seems to have made her an offer she can't refuse because as of February 3rd, which is Monday, is that right? Yeah, that's Monday. She's being moved to the Treasury Department and she's being replaced by a top advisor and suck-ass to bar named Timothy Shay. That means the Flynn case, the

Andy McCabe case, any potential future Comey cases, because that's back under investigation. God damn it. And likely a bunch of stuff handed off by Mueller will now be overseen by a close personal advisor to William Barr. Wow. So probably not good days ahead then. There's no way that could go any other way.

Yeah. And so this is why I have a sabotage, because this sabotages our entire fantasy indictment leak. Although the Southern District of New York is still there, still working, although there are a lot of people in our sphere, like Blake's mustache, who think that SDNY is also compromised and that they indicted, you know, Fruomen and Parnas just to keep them to shut up and try to get them to, you know, take one for the team. Yeah.

But they're still investigating Giuliani. They did in Diethawk bank despite Trump trying to make that not happen. And they did indict Zubari in the inaugural situation. So I, I don't know where I stand on Southern District of New York right now. I don't know either if they're kind of getting small fries, just to play Kate, the masses, to some degree, or whatever, fries. I was going to say pebbles. Well, it's not the distraction.

Discription level. Look over here, pebbles. Look over here. You're like, red herring makes more sense. I like it. Look over here, pebbles. All right. over here, over here, sorry. You're like, red herring makes more sense. I like it look over here, Pebbles. All right, well, are you ready to play the fantasy indictment leg?

Yes. I'm gonna be indictment! No way, it's gonna be okay. I'm gonna be indictment! Cling dick! And die, nerd! Cling! I'm gonna be indictment!

Hold it! They can't, it's gonna be okay. Just calm down. I can't calm down, I'm gonna be indictment! All right, so despite the fact that we have no idea if Bill Barr is going to allow any indictments for anybody to go through or this new guy Timothy Shea and in DC is going to let anything go through. We're going to still play the fantasy indictment league because it's Super Bowl Sunday. Oh yeah. And I believe you get to go first this time.

All right, holding out hope for STNY and for criminals being a changed person all around, I'm gonna go way out on a limb here and say, plea deal, Frueman. I know, I know, that's a super, super out of left field thing. I would actually go along with that, but only because he's been sort of contradicting what Parnas is saying publicly

and might be going to willing to work with a corrupt Southern District of New York. Oh no. of contradicting what Parnas is saying publicly and might be going to willing to work with a corrupt Southern District of New York. Oh no. So it could be like a corrupt betrayal. The aunt. Oh my God. I'm going to go ahead and say Giuliani.

I know it's the long shot, but okay. Fucking eventually he will eventually be indicted. Yeah. There's no god damn way he couldn't be January. January. It's one of the 21. Yeah. Okay. god damn way he couldn't be January second 21 yeah okay let's go to Plydeal Parnas yeah Parnas oh do you like my coffee swallow right there right in your asthma or mouth and your ears right in your earholes you're welcome

uh Plydeal right yeah Plydeal I'm gonna go super seeding uh Parnas nice um I'm gonna go super seeding Parnaas. Nice. Um, I'm gonna do Tom Bearc. Good. How about... Ah! Okay, here's a weird one. A Blavotnik. Ooh. Blast from the past. Yeah, I forgot what Blavotnik did.

He donated a bunch of money, the inaugural, through Stroud Donor. Got it. One, two, three, four. Some of my players have been real dead weights on the bench. Oh, damn. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know.

I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. I know. One, two, three, four. Some of my players have been real dead weights on the bench. Oh, damn. I know. Barric, me too. I keep giving you a chance every week. And you're just dead ass wings.

Holy and coach. Stop drinking Gatorade. Do something. Shit. I'm out. I can't even think of anybody else who could be in trouble anymore because of this whole corrupt department of justice. Yeah, well, you don't have to be consistent with your picks. Let's go with Flann.

There's Pecker and stuff. Flann. Nice. Super-seeing? Yeah, I mean, it would be, right? Yeah, I think he could be brought up on pharaoh charges. Cool. I'm going to do AMI. Good.

Then I'll do Pecker. Hell yeah. All right. And that is fantasy indictment league. We have an amazing interview with Katie Fang. We're going to talk impeachment and stuff like that and other investigations that are happening. All the other kind of stuff that's still going on behind the scenes that we're using, like you said, Jordan to chip away sort of at the foundation of the crime

syndicate of this whole crime and progress. So, stick around for that. We'll be right back. Hey, everybody, it's A.G. and I want to thank Baked by Melissa for supporting Mollarshi Road. Baked by Melissa makes bite-sized cupcakes in an array of unique handcrafted flavors. Since they're perfectly bite-sized, you can enjoy trying several flavors at a time. Looking to make a special Valentine's Day, Bake by Melissa, special Valentine's Day flavors

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So there's Valentine's Day, and your loved ones the perfect gift baked by Melissa. I love sending these to vendors and clients as well. I think they're awesome thank yous and that's another great idea for Valentine's Day. So go to bakedbymalissa.com slash AG and use promo code AG to get 15% off your order. Take advantage of this special offer for podcast listeners. That's 15% off at bakedbymalissa.com slash AG with promo code AG. You'll be glad you did. Joining us for the interview today is Trial Lawyer and she's also an NBC and MSNBC legal contributor and our friend Katie Fang, Katie, welcome back to Mueller, she wrote.

Oh, I feel like I've come home. This is like the best reunion. I feel like I'm home. I miss you guys. I miss you specifically, too. Ah, same. I think the last time we saw each other was, where were we? DC? DC. Yeah.

Us and my good friend Natasha Bertrand, that was an awesome show. Yes. That made face in myself by the way. Back when she was with, I think with the Atlantic. That was, and she wouldn't play, she wouldn't play fuck Mary Kill with us. I remember that. Yeah. True. She respectfully declined to play such thing for that. I'd you recall that. Probably for the best. So it's so good to have you back.

I saw you yesterday, the thing that prompted me to get in touch with you again, other than you're just awesome. Was I saw you yesterday on MSNBC and you were discussing all of the outstanding Trump cases going through the Supreme Court and all the other investigations still going on in the House. I was hoping you could tell us what you told them a little bit about, because of course we had this vote, this 5149 BS vote in the Senate. But I thought you made some really good points about, we to remember there's some there's some other stuff still going on

yeah and you know i'm not trying to give any false optimism because i won't be asked you i was the flight it right on friday i i there's always going to be a part of me that believes uh... in the rule of law and the concept of justice and it's not uh... an occupational hazard it's because i think that inherently man is good and that's how we're wired and that's what we should be doing.

So I was a little dislated with that vote on Friday, but it really is me always. And I think that's actually something that's really inherent in the message that you guys do with Moller Street Road is the fact that you can continue to investigate and chip away at the foundation that is the criminal citric that is not that is his

in molium and clawed violations his griff the trump organization the trump foundation the trump family like the tentacle that extended to the inauguration i mean there is so much going on uh... what is it the still waters run deep right there's not going on that were probably not even privy to uh... to excuse me to which we are not privy uh... and so i think that people need to keep a mind set so what what so i

think you talk about was the more obvious ones that are in the news that we do know about, which are the pending cases. There are three cases that are currently pending in the Supreme Court, or our argument will take place on March 31st with a ruling from SCOTUS in June, just in time for our elections in November. And then there's a couple of cases that are currently in a palette review that deal with Dawn again, as well as a house and ways in means lawsuit

about the tax return that are now kind of intertwined because the federal judge and the house ways in me case have decided he wants to save the litigation until a disposition in the McGam case. And then on the other end of the spectrum, which I'm always a big fan of, are the civil lawsuits from E. Jean Carroll and Summer Servos for the defamation claims that have, as it now

survived, on the trial court level, motions to dismiss and are currently up to review by the teleports at least Summer Zervos is. And E. Jean Carol just this past week said, give me your DNA, Mr. Trump. So there's a lot of stuff that's going on, and I kind of wanted to emphasize that we should not give up hope that there will not be a day of reckoning for Donald Trump. Yeah, I've been seeing this too quite a bit on the show, even before the vote, because we knew that even if they voted for witnesses and documents, which I didn't think they would because that would be the nail in their coffin, they wouldn't be able to exonerate him or acquit him and they were going to do that.

That was like their whole goal. So I was like, look, this is going to happen. It's going to suck. But like, check this out. Regardless of what the Senate does, take the Senate out of the equation. We still have, the truth is going to come out between now and the election. And the court of public opinion is far more important than the Senate court of opinion. And that actually helps us in November.

So odds being even, sauce for the goose, don't be sad. I mean, it is a sad day for justice and it is a sad day for the Constitution, but they were going to do that anyway. So I think it's really important that we bring up these other cases too. And the ones that you're talking about, I think the Appellate Court ones, the McGann one and the Mueller materials one, might actually make their way to arguments by March 31st as well. And I think we should get decisions at the end of June for all five of those cases.

Which would be spectacular. And then if I may interrupt briefly with a footnote I've also of the school of thought that chief justice john robert was a bit of a pod of plan during the impeachment trial and I know that that was a source of unceasing frustration for people who wanted him to be more proactive and I thought it foolish for people to think that he would be more proactive because that's not his style. He is not an activist, a judicial activist by any stretch of the imagination, and he typically grouped in the quote conservative camp. But the thing that I find about Robert, though, is he has now kind of been into the belly of the beast.

And I would like to think that being impotent and not being able to do very much in his role, Gilman being muzzled to some extent, still allowed for an opportunity to really get very close to what is the durianist of Trump. The disingenuous arguments being advanced by the Trump-decent legal team, the fact that Pat Chippelloni had no business being involved in this case as counsel as he was a fact witness himself. Now, I mean, things that really run counter to the truest kind of North Star sense of right, which I would hope that somebody

sitting on the Supreme Court of the United States would still maintain. So the reason why I bring this up as a footnote is this continuum litigation, which ultimately inevitably ends up in front of the Supreme Court in the United States because a lot of it's novel. For example, the case is dealing with can Congress be suing the White House? These are novel issues. And so of course they're going to go to the notice. And I'm kind of hoping that John Roberts will then find the opportunity to do the right thing and create precedent that presidents have to do the right thing inclusive of turning over financial statements tax returns and allowing just people like don again to show up not even on the assertion of privilege but just show up i mean it's a

thing i you know yeah and you're so right because I think now, because he was involved in the Senate trial, I think Chief Justice John Roberts has had a view into what happened into Ukraine, not unlike the view that Amy Berman Jackson has had into Stone Gates and Manafort, or the view that Sullivan has had into Flynn, or the view that Reggie Walton has had into improper redactions coming out of the Department of Justice. And we've seen them sort of rule in ways that sort of go along those same lines that you're talking about. And so I was wondering, I was going to ask you, there's a lot of people that are worried

the Supreme Court might find in favor of Trump in any number of these cases. A year ago, I'd have said no way, these cases are too obvious, like you said, on their face, their black and white. There's massive amounts of precedent here. But I think a lot of folks have had their faith in the justice system shaken recently. So I was going to ask you, if you thought Chief Justice Roberts would sort of err on the side of basically not destroying his legacy for the rest of the universe, which might not be very long, but I think that the short answer is yes, and the irony is it's exactly for the reason against

which we rail about the ability for Trump's tax federal courts, which is the lifetime appointment concept, right? We rail against that because it just sounds just so counterintuitive to the idea about the evolution of the world that people should have a lifetime appointment in such a position of power. But because of the security of the lifetime appointment, perhaps that's exactly the reason why you will see rulings that are against Trump. And these are people that are by all accounts associated with establishment, conservative movements, but you know, everybody thought, and I am a biopinion of Santa Brecht, have no, no, no, however, but a lot of people thought that there was going to be this exceptional proactivity by Calvin on the second that he

got his butt on the bench on the Supreme Court, and you haven't per se seen that necessarily, at least as aggressively as people thought was going to happen. But I do think that there's a certain security for somebody like John Roberts to say, I am a lifetime of point of judge, and I think that there is something wrong with this level of just, this level of just trying to defraud the American public from just being, to not having to transparency that we all deserve and I think that and again call me naive maybe um call me too optimistic but I think that that might be the the buffer for somebody like Robert and other kind of federal

court you know lifetime appointees to do the right thing yeah I guess the only one I'm a little bit worried about is the Trump appointee Trevor McFadden who is providing oversight he's the judge for the- Yeah, the duty to stay the health ways in the meantime. For like, well, almost a year now or some shit. And so, and now, you know, and he's saying, well, I just wanna see what happens in the McGan case. Like, there's somehow connected when the house ways

and means getting a tax return has zero to do with separation of powers. I mean, yeah. Yeah're still going to find judges that are going to be like that, right? I mean, I find that to be an inevitable thing. You're going to find judges that are going to subscribe to this philosophy, and they're going to do things like that. But you have a series of judges, though, that I think are not Trump appointees, but Bush appointees, right?

I mean, people that are still on the bench in doing the right thing. And I'm hoping that we have very clear edX that come out of SCOTUS in June that really provide a very defined pathway. I mean, this is a no-brainer. Turn over your tax returns. I mean, these are the type of things that i think

uh... should not even be subject to some type of judicial issue but they are uh... and you know the domic am think and i want to see a conclusive rejection of an absolute of the argument coming from yeah i want to see that like that's the type of stuff i'm hoping to see yeah and that'll retroactively apply to the Senate's vote for no witnesses and documents as well at least in the public sphere and You mentioned the jingel eye time frame here. I was wondering what you thought the impact of the timeline of these cases is because the you know

The five big ones they seem to be on track like I said to have decisions announced by the end of June If not certainly the three and that's a full five months before the election and so giving the end of June, if not, certainly the three. And that's a full five months before the election. And so giving the amount of time it would take to review all the materials and to get the McGahn testimony, because I mean, there are what billions of documents in the Muller Grand Jury materials. There are, yeah. Do you see the fruits of this impacting the election?

I mean, I know it's five months seems like a long time, but I mean, to review all of this stuff, although I do have a feeling they've reviewed a lot of it already, they're just waiting for it to officially come to them. Do you know what I mean? I agree. I do think that there's probably a little bit more of an expedited track that maybe we think exists, but I think there is a feasible timeline and time frame within which we could

have some disinfectant sunlight put onto what's going on here. And remember, Supreme Court of the United States is the last stop on that judicial train. And so you'll at least get some testimonial exposure, right? I mean, you'll at least get something like that if you can't get through the, you know, millions of pages of docs that are sitting out there. But I concur. I think that the gist of what's gone on though everybody knows. We're just looking for the more nuanced details, right?

I mean, and the same thing applies on the tax returns. Some people think it's never going to lose the need on. I'm like, there's a reason why we always say follow the money, and we're not trying to be glib. But I'd love to see where a lot of his money's coming from the direct source it proves that he's telling the truth under oath when he files his penalty the perjury tax returns but hey baby he lies and now we've got a penalty perjury penalty of perjury in a prosecution whatever i don't know but i do think that there's available remedies and avenues judiciously and legally that we haven't even explored yet once the treasure trove of docs no come to light and we get to access them

yeah and there's a reason that trump appointed his irs commissioner and general council the irs and and crammed them in before he even got bar uh... confirmed because that's where i think the truly truly damning information is, which, right, we already know what it is. We already know he had loans undersigned by sanctioned Russian banks that were funneled through subsidiaries of Deutsche Bank. I can't wait to see that Deutsche Bank stuff right.

I mean, there's just like so much that there that we're all waiting to see. And I do think that even if it's a fundamental level of embarrassment, right, he's not worth what he says, he's worth. You know that kind of stuff? I mean, I feel like that just very in a very elementary fashion sticks in his crawl. The idea that he could be worth less than Mike Bloomberg, right? Things like that, I think actually would go a long way. And remember, and I said this last night, we have stated a union on Tuesday,

you know that man can keep his mouth shut. More knows what he's going to say at Saturday on Tuesday. And maybe he'll implitate himself even more. I don't know. We got a vote on Wednesday. So who knows. I am waiting for one of those just like pairing me some moments and I know it's not going to happen. Well, no, especially since the Senate, like they put in, I think Mitch McConnell put in a unanimous consent to close evidence between now and what so nothing else can can get in the

vote like you still vote in the dot com and turns openly implicate the self-baby you're voting for conviction without the presentation of this one i know i know i know i'm delusional that would be wonderful that's justice porn but yeah and and honestly even even if the if the tax stuff comes out and it doesn't move his base, it'll certainly drive him bananas and he could just implode himself, like literally just spontaneously

combust. We don't know. That's a straight porn right there, right? That's what it is. Well, he's like sort of meandering away with toilet paper to stuck to his shoe, just burst into flames. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.

So, I mean, you know, there's a million different ways that this could turn out. And just before I let you go here, any other investigations we should be keeping our eyes on. I heard you briefly mention some state AG and... Oh, yeah. I mean, thank God for the state AG of New York, thank God for Cyrus i mean thank god for the state a g of new york thank god for cilbert fan thank god for the sdny i mean i know we have you know federal state stuff i i'm still a huge fan i'm a friend i might hurry it out on

left part of the i you know i i'm i i created one day trust the verify trust the verify you know continuing investigations and the interest that exists for those investigations, I think, you know I say this dude Rudy Giuliani is so stupid that I think that he is a still we haven't tapped him out yet

in terms of the wealth of how he can continue to implicate his quote unquote client. And so I think that as the SDNY specifically investigation of a really Julianna continues aided with the disclosures and through and a part-ass, I think we're going to actually get even more juicier kind of tidbits. And so we need to just sit back a little bit, lick our wounds, lick our wounds, and just kind of realize this inevitable vote is going to happen, but that we got to keep on keep on because if it's not us and who. Yeah, we've always been the ones that we're going to save ourselves. That's right.

All right. Especially the women. 100% 100. So thank you again so much. Trial lawyer, MSNBC legal analyst, all around awesome person, Katie Fang. Thank you again so much. It was great to talk to you. I missed around awesome person, Katie Fang. Thank you again so much. It was great to talk to you. I missed you.

Thank you. All right, so that's our show. We've got a big week coming up. Obviously, the Iowa caucuses are tomorrow. We have the state of the union on Tuesday. I'll watch it for you. You don't have to watch it. I'll tell you everything that happened.

You don't have to tune into that shit. We have the impeachment vote Wednesday. We also have the Lev Parnas conference in the Southern District tomorrow. We have the impeachment vote Wednesday. We also have the Lev Parnas Conference in the Southern District tomorrow. We have the deadline for the Department of Homeland Security to provide all the information on Trump's family trips. That's tomorrow. And the Department of Energy has a deadline

to hand over Giuliani, Ukraine, communications on Tuesday. We'll keep you up on all of it. I don't know that they're going to hand anything over. We just found out over the weekend too that there are 20 something emails about Ukraine that are being withheld by office management and budget. They've admitted freely to that, and of course none of that evidence can, the evidence that they're withholding it in a, you know, obstruction of Congress, and the evidence that's in the emails, none of it can be considered in the vote Wednesday that which I'm certain will acquit the president.

I wonder what the tone is of Democrats behind closed doors right now, not literally behind closed doors in a Republican secret chamber dungeon way, but like when they're talking to each other in a basement bunker. Yeah, like when they're hanging out, going to bars, getting fucked up after a long day's bullshit,

and they're just talking about everything. I wonder what their tone is like, because I feel like another political battle's, you know, they're talking about the logistics of everything, but I wonder how much now they're just truly like, guys. Well, this is really fucking bad. I'll tell you, I saw a big hint to that. After the vote came out,

and after McConnell and Schumer emerged from their deal-making meeting, Schumer was on camera and he was pissed. Yeah. He was like, look, they fucking fuck shit up, fuck it, we're gonna do some amendments to vote next Wednesday, fucking buy. Like he was mad.

Yeah, totally. I'm paraphrasing. But that, I feel like that energy is sort of probably what's going on. Totally. And then the fact that they must be that upset, that that's when my assumption would be, is that they're like, it is literally us standing between the complete demise of the Constitution and what it means essentially.

And the pressure of that. And then needing to come into all these public experiences, like you said, appearances, and not be very hysterical, because they should be. This is this warrants real hysteria, which is not the definition of hysteria, real panic, complete panic, and it's amazing to be there, even able to keep it together as I hit you

to the word professionally, but like just maintaining decorum, like they do when these counterparts on the other side are effectively ruining and breaking down the constitution, not hyper-bolicly saying that, that is truly what they're doing. And they know that more than any of us. Somebody hacked the Wikipedia page for the Senate. I saw.

I thought Brian showed me that. Put a def date. Oh my God. January 31st, 2020, the day the Senate. I saw a lot of Ryan showed me that. Put a def date. Oh my God. January 31st, 2020. The day the Senate died. Yeah. Yeah. That's a sad joke in a round.

Me, love, song. What was the song tonight? Chicago died? Who does that? Not me, love. It's definitely not me, love. It's like a 70 song. Then I Chicago died.

Really? I don't know. You don't know that song. It's definitely not me. Maybe a little too young for that. Yeah, no, no, no. Well, I don't know. I have no idea. Yeah, maybe it's like your parents. N-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n-n- Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, That's how I get my pop culture is through other pop culture reference. Yeah. Oh what a night it was. Yeah. Yeah. Jack Black.

I do know that song but only because of that. Anyway. All right. The night the se. We did that. That's the second. Oh what a night it was. Oh what a night it really was. Everybody was crying. January 31st. All right. Um sad to joke about that.

But we don't laugh we'll cry, right? So yeah. Everyone, um first of all Jordan, you feel better. All right. Sad to joke about that. But if we don't laugh, we'll cry, right? So everyone, first of all, Jordan, you feel better. Thank you. Yeah, sorry, I feel like shit. Kind of lost my game. That's okay. We love you.

And everyone else take care of yourselves too. And take care of each other. I've been A.G. I'm a Jordan Coburn. And this is Mullershi Road. Music Mollershy Road is executive produced and directed by A.G. and Jordan Coburn with engineering and editing by Mackenzie Mazell and Starburn's industries. Our marketing manager, production and social media direction is by Amanda Reader,

fact checking your research by A.G. Jordan Coburn and Amanda Reader and our knowledgeable listeners. Our web design and branding are by Joo Reader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is mullichirob.com. Hi, I'm Harry Lickman, host of Talking Feds. Around Table, it brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day.

Each Monday, I'm joined by a slate of Feds favorites at new voices. To break down the headlines and give the insiders view of what's going on in Washington and beyond. Plus, sidebar is explaining important legal concepts read by your favorite celebrities. Find Talking Feds wherever you get your podcasts. M-S-O-W-Media.