Jack - The Jimmy Buffet of Dictators (feat. David Enrich)

Episode Date: March 16, 2020

This week on Mueller, She Wrote we have an interview with David Enrich, author of "Dark Towers" from the Business Investigations Editor at the New York Times. Become a patron at patreon.com/muellershewrote

Hi, I'm Harry Littman, host of Talking Feds. Around table, the brings together prominent figures from government law and journalism for a dynamic discussion of the most important topics of the day. Each Monday, I'm joined by a slate of Feds favorites and new voices to break down the headlines and give the insider's view of what's going on in Washington and beyond. Plus, sidebar is explaining important legal concepts read by your favorite celebrities. Find Talking Fedswear every you get your podcasts. Thanks to Beta Brand for supporting Muller She Road. Do you have a to-do list that never

seems to end? Running from a flight straight to a meeting still have to cook dinner for yourself, Beta Brand's dress pant yoga pants are perfect for the office home and anywhere your day takes you. Right now our listeners can get 20% off their first order when you go to Beta Brand.com slash AG. And thanks to third love for supporting Mueller She-Rote. Third love knows there's a perfect broth for everyone so right now they're offering our listeners 15% off their first order. Go to thirdlove.com slash AG to find yours today. And thanks to the Awful Nutri podcast for supporting Mueller She-Rote.

Awful Nutri was a group of comics playing multiple roleplaying games including Dungeons and Dragons, Call of Cthulhu, and Kids on Bikes, and RPG based on Stranger Things. Find awful neutral, subscribe, rate, and enjoy wherever you get your podcasts. This is Greg Olyar, the author of Dirty Rubles, and you're listening to Mueller, she wrote. So to be clear, Mr. Trump has no financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's what he said. That's what I said. That's obviously what our position is. I'm not aware of any of those activities.

I have been called a surrogate at a time of truth in that campaign and I didn't have, not have communications with the Russians. What do I have to get involved with Putin for? I have nothing to do with Putin. I've never spoken to him. I don't know anything about a mother than he will respect me. Russia, if you're listening, I hope you're able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing. So, it is political. You're a communist. No, Mr. Green.

Communism is just a red hairing. Like all members of the oldest profession, I'm a capitalist. Hello, and welcome to Muller She Wrote. I'm your host, A.G., and with me today, are Jordan Coburn. Hello. And Amanda Reader. Hello.

It has been an interesting week. An interesting 24 hours. Full moon in Virgo on Monday, Mercury ending its retrograde on Tuesday. I saw this you just clear up then. And we had a Friday the 13th. There was an insane amount of Mueller news and we're going to bring it all to you with some quick updates on the coronavirus and democratic primaries. For more in depth reporting on those, check out the Daily Beans, which comes out tomorrow morning or tonight for premium patrons. And thanks to you for your amazing support. How are you? All right. Anxious. Very anxious to be honest. It is a really hard time for a hypokondriac person with generalizing anxiety disorder.

Same. Yeah, I'm not the hypokondriac, but I'm a really big phomo person. So to stay home, we work so much. And I'm super thankful that we have all of our supporters in this podcast to be able to do this instead of my years in hotel restaurant management, service industry. And I haven't been doing that many comedy shows. You had a few this weekend. How did they go? Yeah, yeah. That was, I mean, it's hard in comics. I don't really where it's bought because if they're not already losing income from the shows getting canceled completely, the promoters, if you cancel on a show, that's like not only do you lose the money

for that gig, but it also might affect your work in the future, especially if you like cancel same day. So I feel like a lot of us, like I've gotten shit for doing those shows. And it's hard because it's like, it's just, yeah, like I got paid a decent amount for them and I need the money. And there's an argument to be made for like the promoter, you know, having, if it's under the 250 cap, then it's okay for them to do it. It's just a weird position. So the whole thing just felt really kind of weird, you it's okay for them to do it. It's just a weird position.

So the whole thing just felt really kind of weird, you know? Yeah, that's totally true. And when I was doing a lot of shows, I think in my 10 years of doing comedy, I missed like three shows, right? Where I was just so sick, I couldn't function or I had lost my voice completely. Because you can't, you're right. If you do that, the promoter's not going to, it could maybe never ask you back on another show. And I know that this was your first time

a full weekend at that club. And so that's a really important gig that you can't miss. And I also feel very bad. I know I was sort of making fun online. No, no Coachella's canceled. But like there's a lot of service industry people who are going to lose so much money. A lot of roadies, a lot of tech crew, a lot of union folks, and industry people, service industry people that are just losing so much money right now, because everyone

is staying home. And I know our St. Patrick's Day Parades were canceled here in town this weekend, and a lot of my friends that are in the service industry lost a lot of money from that, a lot of bartenders in the area, and wait staff in restaurants in those areas that would normally have made a bunch of money from those rushes that have lost out. Those are the days that we look forward to in the service industry. I mean, they're the hard days, but you know, you can make your days. You need, the whole country needs emergency universal basic income now. Yeah, I saw that.

I saw that. Did you see that Andrew Yang retweeted a suggestion that everyone might be getting like a grand and he's like, oh, if only someone had thought about that or a camera caskier, like one of his supporters. Right. Yeah, it was. Only that had thought about that. Or a camera caskier, like one of his supporters. Right, yeah. Only that was somebody's idea. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

Funny. Yeah, weird times. And your podcast is going to start coming out soon, right? Yes, yeah. Yeah, kind of deciding, like, when's best to launch right now? I don't know if it's other people want to hear exactly right now, or if people need content right now. That's true. It is, Yeah. We don't get like

hostile with each other at all, even though it's centered around disagreeing on things. So yeah, I'll talk to Jason about it. Yeah. It's called the I disagree pod. Thank you. Yes. I personally had the best time recording the last daily beans. Yeah. So the final 20 minutes of that last daily beans is probably the funniest thing I've ever personally been a part of. So if you haven't listened to, if you've been like slow to get on the beans train, that is the episode you need to listen to.

It was Friday as daily beans, something about butts. Yep, yep. And we got the news up front because I've been working on that and but the end man the last 20 minutes. Yeah, so funny. And I want to thank our fans. We've gotten a bunch of gifts this week. A fan in Newport sent us boxing robes because of my postmates robes because of my postmates experience where the person tried to get me to disrobe. And so the she was like, here's just, you know, to show him what you're made of when they come to the door and ask that again, is it still boxing robes? So

thank you for that. Awesome. Ian brand winery, I brand wine sent us a case of wines of thank you. I've tried them all and they're all really good. Um, that Cobb fronk especially. Oh, that was really, really delicious. So thank you Ian Brand and family and everyone check out Ian Brand winery. Truly amazing. And thank you to the anonymous person who sent cookies and chocolate. That was incredible. And we got a book called Beyond Two Parties by Dan Eckham saying, hope you find this book interesting. I'm an average American citizen who spent five and a half years researching and writing this book, which I published in

November 2019. It contains some ideas I think would make a big difference in the health of our politics. And then I have his mobile phone and email which I'll give you now. But Dan, thank you for sending that book. I really look forward to reading that. That is really cool. Since we're all going to be quarantined at home, I have some extra time to do it. We do have a big show today, including an interview

with the author of Dark Towers in the New York Times piece about Val Brookschmit called me and my whistleblower. His name is David Enrich. And he'll be joining us later in the show. And we have a lot of huge court decisions that relate to the Mueller investigation, including the Gran Jury materials and an update on the McGanty and the Magansapina case as well. And there's a lot of other Russia news too, but before we get to that we

have some corrections. Oh, I made a mistake. Alright Amanda take it away. Alrighty. I like it straight by the way. Thank you. Thrift did it actually. It just says equality. Very. Very on brand for me.

Alrighty. So this is from Kathleen Dunn and she says, even though I don't always agree with your politics, I love to listen because of your in-depth topics served with the healthy dose of laughter. We get a lot of that lately, like, I don't agree with you, but I love you. That's nice. That's really nice. I don't agree with you either. I appreciate that, though. Yeah, no, it's really nice. We're getting a lot of that lately.

And I'm like, that's, I really love that we have listeners who are like, in a different part of the political spectrum than we are, that gives me a lot of hope. Anyway, she says dogs cannot pass COVID-19, it's true. However, if you are at walking your dog, a cute one like my little chocolate pameranian, people will never really want to pet it. I have the same problem with my dog, but you don't know where their hands have been or whether they're contagious.

After I got back from my last walk, I lightly sprayed my dog with hydrogen peroxide. Fortunately, he did not turn into a blonde. I noticed a lot of people out walking their dogs these days because they were avoiding indoor spaces. However, please make sure you're not letting people pet your dog and please make sure you're keeping your dog clean. Yeah, very good. Because we don't know how long COVID-19, we know how long it can live on like plastics and metal up to nine days. Most other surfaces up to three days. But we don't, I don't think there's any studies or testing out there that shows us how long it can live

on a dog's fur. Right. Right. And so you could pet a dog, if somebody else could pet your dog, you could pet your dog and then boom. Yeah, totally. Good point.

Yeah. This is from Stephanie Paragrand. She says, Amy Carrera on the show last week mentioned Oregon voting on Super Tuesday. Unfortunately, we actually don't vote until May. I'm not sure what state she meant, but we actually in Oregon do have mail-in and drop-off ballots. I think she meant Washington.

Gotcha. You also expressed some concerns over security, but we are blessed with elected officials like Ron Wyden, who is leading the charge in the Senate for a hand-marked paper ballots and election security measures. Oregon also has one of the highest voter turnouts in the country due to efforts like these and should be a model nationwide. Excellent. I love that. This is from Hitari Mac. I think that's how it's pronounced. She says it's great to have a podcast that can joke about the biggest black comedy in

the history of the federal government, especially for us foreigners who don't have full understanding of U.S. law. She says, I'm probably in the 100th or so listed to point this out by now, but the Hank's volleyball story, you mentioned last week, that he's being treated for COVID-19 is actually a fiction. The Betuda Advocate is a parody news website in Australia, much like the onion in the US. Oh, I saw a picture. I guess it was just a well-edited picture.

Yeah. Ah, okay, so he is being treated for COVID-19. Well, they're self-isolating, but he didn't have Wilson with him. Right, okay. Yeah. Ah, okay. So he is being treated for COVID-19. Well, they're self-isolating, but he didn't have Wilson with him. Right. Okay. Yeah. Your podcast does a better job. It's staying accurate than many professional news sources and pointing out something this minor

maverage on being pedantic. But since you're striving for accuracy, here's my two cents towards that battle. I appreciate that. Yeah. Thank you. All right. This is a longer one than usual because there were some really, really, really meaningful corrections that I thought that needed to be included.

So apologies for that, guys. This is from Jack. He says, I love this show and look forward to it. Every morning, while I feed my cats in attempt to perfectly peel a hard-boiled egg, you seem to have... Oh, I have the way, by the way. Do you have to, you're done, I'll do that.

I'll do that. You seem to have confused shock therapy with something else. Well, I'm not familiar with the method mentioned on the show last week. Used to treat aggression on mentally ill individuals. Electro-convulsive therapy known as ECT is actually still in wide use for treating depression and bipolar disorder. I've been treated with it in 2016 and 2018, both times with excellent results. It's used in cases such as mind where years or decades

actually of trying many different medications and therapies had no effect. The procedure itself is far from the brutality shown in films such as One Full Over the Cocos Nest. Just the word shock itself implies a barbaric crude pain. In modern ECT though, the patient is completely, I can't pronounce this word, anis detaiz. Anis detaiz? That's the word, yes. Apologies.

And the procedure is very brief and completely harmless. It's even safer pregnant women. I won't go into the granular details, but for most people, it's an outpatient procedure, and after a morning session, I could drive and go to work later that day. After treatment, I also felt better than I could ever remember at any other point in my entire life. My main reason for writing in is that because of the stigma associated with this treatment, it prevents many others from seeking this treatment when it could be a life-saving.

Simply calling it shock treatment is misguided and adds to its negative portrayal, which scares away potential patients. I was suicidal and depressed, and ECT quite literally saved my life. So please stop calling it shock treatment. Sorry, this went on a bit, but in ECT's success story, I want to spread positivity around the treatment and point out the fallacy of ulcerative types. Awesome, thank you. I'm really glad that that worked.

On the flip side, we also got another correction about shock therapy, which was an entirely different experience. So it's from anonymous, and they said, you mentioned on the daily beans that you didn't know shock therapy still happening, or that conversion therapy is still happening. And she said, I can say someone who was under 30, who was alive and well in the early 2000s that there was a place in the US that was using, quote unquote, shock therapy to correct aggressive behavior and also lesbian tendencies when I was 12.

Aggressive lesbian tendencies. Aggressive lesbian tendencies. No, aggressive tendencies and also aggressive behaviors and then also lesbian tendencies. So it has been years, but this is still very real. There are permanent scars from the electrodes. I know you didn't know this, but it's been years, and I'm still dealing with the PTSD,

but I needed to share with you that it is a thing, a very real and life-roading thing. I am so sorry. Yeah, so two very different experiences from people who were in the hospital. Probably two different kinds of things. Right, and the people that administer it, very different goals in terms of

Decare for the actual individual and actually question their Medical certification absolutely. Yeah, so it was particular conversion therapy situations Yeah, absolutely. So that was just something that was that was a really meaningful And then this is one last one just just kind of funny This is from from a Canadian and Montreal from Jackie. Your podcast format and the unique perspective of having three very different, very strong women collaborate and offer such a refreshing take on American politics is something that I look forward to every day. I know that typically you are intentionally mispronouncing the name of Gillean Maxwell, which I find hilarious, Jizzling. But for the occasions when you do wish to pronounce it,

seriously, please allow a bilingual Montreal art to offer some tips. The closest I can suggest is Gilen, where the first syllable is pronounced like the Indian butter, and the second is pronounced well like Len, the emphasis is on the second syllable so Gilen, that's how you pronounce it. Good luck. Good luck. Gilen. Gilen. Emphasis on the second accent.

Yeah, it's actually pretty simple. Beautiful name. Yeah, pretty person, beautiful name. So it's making true, right? Gillen Maxwell is a beautiful name, too bad she sucks. Uh, then she says, love the dynamic between the three of you, love how you respect each other's differences. Yeah, so yeah, thank you. Yeah, you're welcome. Thank you. Thank you for doing this. Yes, thanks for reading those Amanda. Those are corrections. If you have any force, please head to mullershearote.com, click contact and select corrections, build us a compliment sandwich.

We'll get it right eventually. We do have a ton of news, so let's jump in with just the facts. Alright, as we know last week, Judge Reggie Walton ordered the Department of Justice to hand over the unredacted MOLLE report, and another federal judge, Colleen Collar Codley, ordered the NSA to hand over the memo of the conversation Trump had with DNI Mike Rogers in which Trump begged him to deny news reports about collusion between Trump, the Trump campaign in Russia. Well, this week, the DC appellate court, the DC Circuit Court of Appeals, has ruled that

the Department of Justice must now hand over the Mueller investigation grand jury materials. The House Judiciary requested last July 27th, we were alive in Chicago that day. I'll never forget that day, because I was popping champagne with our gastronato marioiti that impeachment proceedings had begun, even though Pelosi didn't announce them until September, officially. But that court filing demanding the grand jury materials, all of the underlying evidence and materials from the Mueller investigation under Article 1 powers of impeachment in the Constitution, to me, said we're having an impeachment inquiry.

And so that is this, those, these grand jury materials are hugely important because this is, if you remember, when, well, if I don't know, I wasn't alive, but I remember reading about this more recently because the Jaworski report came to light, was finally released just a couple of years ago, you know, 40 years after Watergate. And what that Jaworski material was was the grand jury materials in the Nixon case. And within those materials were all of the conclusions drawn about which federal felonies Nixon had committed, I believe there were four. And that was what led eventually to Republican Senators saying, you're not going to make it out of this.

If you, when they started impeachment hearings, and that's what led to his resignation, was because he actually committed federal felonies. And those conclusions were drawn in the Jaworski Grand Jury materials, but not in the, in the report that that would have come out later. Otherwise, much like our molar report that came out, of course, which was mischaracterized by Bill Barr and the Department of Justice, but he didn't draw any conclusions in that report for several reasons, one, because you can't indict a sitting president, and two, just to say he was guilty of obstruction of justice, for example, which he was on several occasions, at least five,

could prejudice future juries were Trump to be taken to court or taken to task for committing those felonies after he becomes a private citizen. And Muller didn't want to jeopardize those future prosecutions because if he had come out and said, yeah, Trump committed obstruction of justice, Trump would have a much easier time appealing the case on the grounds that he wouldn't be able to get a fair trap. So, what else in these materials, these grand jury materials, like I said, anything, you know, it could be a crime so that the grand jury decided that he could be indicted on, of course, he wasn't because you can't indict a sitting president. But the full unredacted 302 would all be in there, including the mystery cushioner 302,

that we didn't get. It could have all the evidence in it against Trump Jr., who was never called in to answer questions. It would also have all of the cases handed off to other agencies, that was the Appendix D, where 14 cases were handed off. Two of them were known to the public and the other 12 were redacted. So I'm not going to say we would know, but the house would know, the house judiciary

would know what cases were handed off, and they would be able to determine if those have been quashed or stopped or somehow otherwise had roadblocks put up in front of them by the Department of Justice, right? And so those are some of the items that would be, I mean, plus the millions of documents of evidence, there could be the counterintelligence stuff that was handed off to the FBI agents that were co-located in the special counsel's office. You would have, I mean, just everything would be in any financial things that he investigated, but never reported on because of the red line or because Rosenstein said he couldn't,

whatever, whatever the case may be. There could be documents in there showing the narrowing of the scope of the Mueller investigation by the Department of Justice. Those sort of memos would probably be included in that material. Because of grand jury secrecy rules, we will not get this, but the house would. And the next steps, of course, in this case are that Trump could appeal to have the full case heard and bonk by all 11 judges at the DC court of appeals, at the district circuit Court of Appeals.

He would lose that. I mean, if he lost the three-judge panel, he would lose the full hearing or the re-hearing in front of the full panel. And then he would appeal to the Supreme Court and probably ask for a stay while they determine whether they are going to hear the case on the merits or not hear it kicking it down to the next lower court's decision. I think, I mean, he's in some cases he's appealed and bonked to the full appellate court. In some cases, he's not because he knows he would lose it, but it would effectively delay those materials being handed over, which

I think is his only defense at this point is delay. So we'll see what happens there. And of course, it wouldn't be Sunday if Trump didn't tweet out stuff about pardoning people. God yeah. It's reported that after destroying, let's see, Trump tweeted out this Sunday. So it's now reported after destroying his life in the life of his wonderful family and many others. By the way, Mueller did not indict Flynn's son and he could have the FBI working in conjunction with the Justice Department has lost the records of General Michael Flynn. How convenient.

I'm strongly considering a full pardon. I don't know what records they're talking about. Flynn said he lied. Why is Trump tweeting about anything other than coronavirus? All of his tweets today are have nothing to do with coronavirus. I the leader of the free world is tweeting about pardoning his friend and not the global pandemic happening. Correct. Now on one hand, though, it's like probably prime time for him to slip in whatever weird

shitty wants to do right now Yeah, he definitely needs to get the focus off of the the mess that is coronavirus that is from from his standpoint That is 100% his responsibility even though in a press conference this week. He said he takes no responsibility That was it that was a stunning moment. I know I don't accept any responsibility. Yeah. Really? I'm calling it a hoax. Encouraging people who not take it seriously.

Yeah, that was just six days ago. The hoax stuff. And then, of course, he just quit coronavirus update this Friday. He declared a national emergency. Finally, stocks. He paraded out a bunch of corporate Walmart guys and touched everyone and touched the microphone and he also acted like it was his personal money. He was giving to Americans not their taxpayer dollars that were being used for an emergency. Right? Like, are night gracious. Yeah. Anyway, wearing a USA hat.

So Flynn, who the fucking has any other president ever done that warn swag at the podium? No, I don't think so or when he wore his maga hat to the CDC Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen that ever before We for a full coronavirus update check out the daily beans comes out tomorrow morning tonight for premium patrons And we'll be right back after this quick word so stay with us morning tonight for premium patrons and we'll be right back after this quick word so stay with us. Hey everybody it's A.G. in this episode, a molar she wrote is brought to you by Beta Brand. Like many people it seems I'm always on the go, I'm very busy running from one air into the next or meet one

meeting to the next so I'm really excited to share I've found a product so flexible and versatile that it perfectly fits my non-stop schedule and they are the best pants ever in existence. They are Beta Brands dress pant yoga pants. They're perfect for the office, home, gym or anywhere else your day takes you. With Beta Brand you never have to sacrifice comfort, function or style. Beta Brands dress pant yoga pants are incredibly versatile, super comfy, perfectly stretchy and they stay wrinkle free. No matter what, I can ball them up in a ball and they wouldn't wrinkle.

And they feel like yoga pants. So whatever your style is, Beta Brand has the pants to match it with dozens of colors and patterns and cuts. And they have boot cut, straight legs, guinea cropped, and they even have premium denim now. They have a pair of eight pocket pants, which are great. I have three pairs of beta brand pants. I've got the crop, the straight leg, and the eight pocket pants on black. And I take them everywhere with me on every trip because they don't wrinkle. They pack and travel beautifully. And the eight pocket pants allow me to leave my purse at the hotel. So, I don't have to carry that around.

Beta Brand now also offers premium denim, like I said with the same flexibility and comfort as the yoga pants. And right now, our listeners can get 20% off your first order when you go to betabrand.com slash AEG. That's 20% off your first order at betabrand.com slash AEG. Millions of women agree these are the most comfortable pants you'll ever wear to work. So go to betabrand.com slash AG for 20% off. Alright everybody welcome back.

So here's some other cool stuff going on in our government. Treasury Secretary. Treasury Secretary Steve had a secret meeting with the Russian ambassador to discuss potential trade and investments on Monday. That's the day the Dow dropped over 7% and they hit that trigger that had to shut down trading for 15 minutes and that was due to an oil price war between Russia and Saudi Arabia. And we learned about this meeting between Steve and the Russian ambassador from the Russian media, of course. The meeting was not on Steve's schedule. And according to Russia, the two discussed agreements between Trump and that Trump and Putin made during their meetings at the Helsinki and Osaka summits. Those are the ones we don't have notes for.

Quote today, US Treasury Secretary Steve T. Menuchin met with T. What's the T? Tiberias. Met with Ambassador to Russian Federation to the United States and Anatoliy Antonov. And they discussed compliance with sanctions programs, moves, sanctions, Venezuelan economic conditions, and the potential for trade and investment, Secretary of Manusion emphasized the importance of orderly energy markets. The two sides discussed current state and future prospects

of Russia, US relations, implementations of the arrangements reached by President Putin and Donald Trump during the summits in Helsinki in 2018, and Osaka in 2019. Compliance in this context is sanctions, specifically the ones placed on Russia-BioBama for invading Crimea in 2014 and attacking our elections in 2016. So Steve is in charge of the O-Fec list, right? Anybody who's on the sanctions list, either from the Mangotsky Act or from just sanctions that the United States government or Congress votes to place on entities and people. So, well, let's see how sanctions look in the next couple of months. Maybe there

will be some sort of an emergency lifting of sanctions because of the coronavirus. Exactly. Another opportunity where they can slip and shit they've been trying to do. Yeah, just like they're trying to defund social security and Medicare and Medicaid by cutting all payroll taxes for the rest of the year. I think that we are about to see a lot of crazy shit happen in terms of the government. I mean, I don't even know where to start. They're already, I mean, I'm already worried about the election being delayed. I have information on that. Yeah. And we talk about it in the daily beans today too. But only Congress can delay an election. Okay. The president cannot. And if there is some sort of executive order that he puts out or some sort of martial law that he puts out that puts the delays, the election,

his term and president vice president Mike Pence's term ends January 20th, 2021. If there was no presidential election, Nancy Pelosi becomes the president. Woo! All right. That is per the Constitution. Of course, he would file court things

and we would have to go to court and the court would have to decide if the Constitution says what it says. Got it. You just know he's going to just fracking freaking complain so hard about how he had the worst four years and it shouldn't count and as you get a redo. Already said that. I should get three years back for having to deal with the Russia hoax and then another

year for having to deal with the corona hoax or whatever the fuck. The first one he did to himself, the second one that is kind of the whole thing. We say that in handling, for sure. Yeah, I'm curious to see what happens. I know we'll go over this in the beans, but you're already hearing Tom Perez of the DNC say stuff like, well, if states push back their primaries too far, they're going to lose out, they're going to get penalized and lose half their delegates. So things like that are happening. But I'm also obviously Trump has handled all of this really badly so far, but I'm a little

bit worried about how, as we go forward, when he implements problem-solving, he's going to claim responsibility for continuing to take the most basic measures and use that as campaign fodder. You know, of course. You know, when he's doing the bare minimum, he's going to be like, look at these funds that I personally made the decision to do for you, peasants. Yeah. Like it just... Yeah, you should everyone, you know, you put in bed at the end of every fortune cookie. You can probably just put peasants at the end of every Trump tweet.

You know, like I, I don't know, I feel... He's obviously handled it so poorly so far, but I'm nervous, but as we go forward, he's going to the PR on this is going to be unbearable. I already, yeah, I mean, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's like, he's trying to be chill. Meanwhile, he is doing like the most unshield things a president's ever done in this country. He's like, you might be living in a fascist country, but we can have an island party. Yes. Yes. It's anyway. Here it works.

Check this out. Here's some tweets. The Donald Trump, the fake and corrupt news never called Google. They said this was not true, Even in times such as these, we aren't, they are not truthful. Watch for their apology. It won't happen. More importantly, thank you to Google, peasants. So it is now reported that after destroying his life and the life of a wonderful family and many others, the FBI working in conjunction with the Justice Department has lost the records of General Michael Flynn. How convenient. I'm strongly considering the full pardon, peasants.

Jesus, you good. It works. I bet Ivanka's works too. Let's just try her. At least Ivanka's working from home, like a reasonable person who's coming to contact with someone who's had coronavirus. As we do again.

Since we practice social distancing, we remember that God does not keep his distance. I pray today for our great country, our leaders, and all Americans, peasants. Oh my God. God does not keep his distance. Once, does anyone have any photos of Trump ever attending

any church ever in his whole life? Nah. Nah. No way. Mega churches don't count. Anything connected to the fall wells doesn't count. Yes, exactly. A mega church is just like, yeah, like a watering hole for,

I'm sorry. I like your stomp. A mega church is. Oh, mega church. I go there. I need my salmon. Mm-hmm. Just get slapped in the face of the fish.

I think I just slide up. Oh, there's from Jesus. There's from Jesus. Oh, a limited fish. Here's some more molar news. As we know last week, the DC circuit court of appeals dismissed them again, subpoena case, saying that it's not the court's job to be the tiebreaker in inter-branch disputes such as this.

We said, that's wrong. And it appears the full circuit court agrees this week. Not only did the full court, 11 judges agree to rehere the House's case for compelling former White House counsel Don McGand to testify about Trump's obstruction of justice during the Mueller investigation on Bonk, which means, you know, in front of the full court or the full judges, the full panel judges, but they vacated the decision of the Appellate Court's three judge panels saying the court doesn't have jurisdiction. They vacated that decision.

So, and I don't know, and maybe somebody can tell me, whenever an appellate court agrees to hear, re-hear a case on bonk by the entire panel of judges, do they, does that always vacate the previous decision, or did they specifically vacate this one, and it doesn't happen automatically? I'm not sure how to ask some lawyer friends. Oh, I send this your corrections.

Yeah. So now this will be heard in the DC appellate court by all 11 judges. I'm certain they will find in favor of the House and then the Trump administration will likely appeal to the Supreme Court and they will likely request a stay that would prevent Don McGahn from testifying until the Supreme Court either hears the case based on the merits and makes a decision or a ruling or refuses to hear the case leaving the on-bong ruling in place. That's what we're looking at. That's what we're looking at going forward.

It's going to be after the election when we get a decision. Yeah. I imagine a lot of stuff is going to happen after the election now. Yeah. I mean, we will get to Deutsche Bank and Mazar stuff before the election though. So that'll be interesting, or we'll at least get the decisions. All right. Everyone's time for Hot Notes.

Hot Notes. All right. So what is going on with Britain and Putin's enemies? Yes. So lots of things. No, so lots of things. No, I just want one. Basically, Russia is now being accused of having had a group of people in Britain

and still having a group of people in Britain go after Putin's enemies in parliament to advance Putin's criminal interests. Bill Browder is largely behind this. He presented evidence of this to parliament's intelligence and security committee. Always behind outing it. Okay, yeah, just being one of like the experts

providing proof for, you know, this happening. And in case you're wondering, Bill Browder was the architect of the Magnetski Act. It was he and his lawyer who found $230 million in tax fraud from Russia reported it. And then his friend Magnetski was jailed, tortured, and murdered. And then Bill Browder has been going around trying to get Magnitsky acts past in multiple governments. Yes, totally. And he's providing pretty much like expert witness testimony almost

to different governments around the world. Like he said, advancing that, he said some had some referring to the people that are either wittingly or unwittingly working for Putin's interest. Some had reason to know exactly what they are doing and for whom. Others work unwittingly for Russian state interests, he said. He said, together, they form what he calls a Western buffer network, essentially, for Russia. So that's calls a Western Buffer Network, essentially, for Russia. So that's scary and the same stuff that's happening in the United States. Moscow, he says, deploys these people

to attack Putin critics and to enhance Russian propaganda and disinformation and to facilitate and conceal massive money laundering operations. He's, Browder's not claiming anyone's broken the law technically. That's not what he's saying with this. Maybe I don't, I have zero idea what UK laws exist that would absolutely, you know, criminalize these folks for what Browder's saying that they're engaging in. But this comes at a time when the UK is still awaiting the public release of their own

Russia report, which the Prime Minister has been accused of refusing to release. And I think that accusation is pretty founded. Yeah. But when it is finally made public, Browder's expertise, I think that there's going to be a lot of things in that report that are informed from, from his research and experiences. Browder told the Guardian, yes, there are members of the Russian security services working out of the Russian embassy under diplomatic cover What the government seems to be missing is the fact that there are all sorts of informal espionage networks There are Russian oligarchs who have a much greater impact on the security of this country What's most shocking is that the Russian government is indirectly hiring British nationals to assist them in its intelligence operations

So it's a huge statement from him. Get your shit together. Western governments that are unwittingly doing Putin's bidding. So yeah, still just anxiously awaiting that report and continuously good work from Bill Browder, who's dedicated his lifetime covering this. Yeah, the state of the UK is total fucking chaos right now too, dude. I mean, it's so crazy. I mean, I'm hearing reports of like, well, they're going to have to delay certain Brexit deadlines yet again because of coronavirus and it's just in shambles. I mean, it's just, in fact, as these developments continue with

Boris Johnson and these, you know, Russia allegations, if anybody has any stories, you think we should like cover from the UK, Tweet the Madness, Russian influence. Yeah, anything to do with what Jordan just said or kind of related to that or totally, like, you know, must know stories, please tweet the Madness. We have a lot of UK listeners. We get so many corrections from the UK and people say they really appreciate our perspective. So, yeah, there's any UK stories connected to this, the things we cover that police sent them to us.

And I know that Browder is just, he's just taken one for the team, right? He's like, hey, Putin's already after me, he's already trying to kill me, he's already trying to get me arrested. Everywhere he's got red notices out at every interval, at every police, you know, country in Europe and elsewhere. And so he's like, fuck, if somebody's gonna do it,

my world will be me. He already wants me dead. So I'm gonna just go out and do all this work. And so I do appreciate what he's doing. I do too. It's also so messed up that there has to be some vigilante civilian essentially that has to dedicate their whole life

and put their own life in danger. Like you just said, continuously, to uncover these things, because governments aren't doing it themselves, or they are and covering it up. Yes, yeah. Roller bar. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. And I forgot to tell you all hard boiled eggs. Oh, yes. Important. Okay, so you boil the water first. Mm-hmm. Okay, then you place the eggs in the boiling water, leave uncovered for 13 minutes.

Uncovered? Uncovered. Okay. For 13 minutes. And even in this coronavirus outbreak, I covered eggs. And then put them in an ice bath, like ice water bath, and then peel them underwater.

Okay, that's it. All right. They come off in whole eggshells. Like they just slid up. Great, amazing. Thank you. Yep. Okay. I've That written down. How are you hitting us? How to do that? Yeah, it is the hard roots the issues. We attack the issues. So my hot note here we've been hearing back and forth for a while now from the White House and the intelligence community about that briefing last month that Russia was interfering with the 2020 election again to well 2020 election to benefit Trump. It made Trump so mad that

the intelligence community would brief Congress and Adam Schiff before him that he fired the DNI. And since then he's installed a totally unqualified douche named Grinnell as one person that sits atop the one person who sits atop all 17 intelligence agencies and is responsible for ensuring coordination of information and intelligence. And he has never worked for an intelligence agency before he has no idea what he's doing. Well, they had a second briefing this week,

where they basically said, hey, those were strong words during our last briefing and our last briefing. In our last briefing, we don't really have any information that Russia prefers Trump specifically. So they were sort of walking that back as if I'm sure Trump made them. And Grinnell wasn't even there. And he was supposed to be a circulation that went out to all lawmakers had him on the schedule to appear for this second briefing.

He had actually asked Trump if he could sit this one out because he was afraid of Dems asking him stuff. He didn't know anything about. He says he was unprepared and not read in to answer questions and he didn't wanna have to handle questions about Russia that could potentially upset the president. So he are acting Director of National Intelligence, had a 17 intelligence agencies, did not go to the intelligence briefing on the Russia interference in the 2020 election.

Well now there's this. This is reporting from CNN that Russian trolls now have hubs in Ghana and Nigeria and they're all backing Trump by the way. And this time they're better disguised, or they're harder to identify and track. From Cloris Award on CNN, she says, in 2016, much of the trolling aimed at the US election operated from an office block in St. Petersburg, Russia, a month-long CNN investigation has now discovered that this election cycle, at least part of the campaign,

has been outsourced to trolls in West African nations of Ghana and Nigeria. They have focused almost exclusively on racial issues in the United States, promoting black empowerment and often displaying anger towards white Americans. And the goal is to inflame divisions among Americans and provoke social unrest. And the language and images used in these posts on Twitter and Facebook are sometimes very graphic. One of the Ghanian trolls at Africa Must Wake linked to a story from a left-wing conspiracy website and commented on Facebook that Americans descent into a fascist police state continues.

On another occasion, that same account, Africa Must Wake tweeted, been killed in blacks since your raggedy mamas gave birth to you happy MLK day to you hypocrites. And more than 200 accounts like this were created by the Ghanian trolls, the vast majority in the second half of 2019, they reached hundreds of thousands, probably millions of people worldwide. And this is just like the IRA, the internet research agency. It's run by Concord Management and the Afghani Progosen. Facebook says that about 13,000 Facebook accounts have followed one or more of those Ghanaian accounts and around 265,000 people followed one or more of the Instagram accounts, about 65% of whom are Americans.

Twitter told CNN it had removed 71 accounts that had 68,000 followers. Most were tweeting in English and presented themselves as based in the United States. They said in a statement, the accounts operating out of Ghana and Nigeria, and which we can reliably associate with Russia, attempt to so discord by engaging in conversations about social issues like race and civil rights. The headquarters were in a walled compound in a quiet residential area near the capital Acra in Ghana, and it had been rented by a small nonprofit group that called itself eliminating

barriers for the liberation of Africa or EBLA. Sixteen Ghanians, mostly in their 20s, worked at the compound. Some lived rent-free and in nearby apartment. They were issued mobile phones, not laptops, and they worked around a table. So they're just sitting in an office, tweeting off a phone. The EVLA trolls communicated as a group through the encrypted telegram app, which was rarely used in Ghana. One of the trolls agreed to talk to CNN. That's how they got most of this information. So long as her identity was disguised, she said that she had no idea she would

be working as a Russian troll. She said that the employees were given topics to post about. So you get stories about LGBTQ. You get stories about police brutality. It depends on what you're what you're working on. She said CNN investigation found the accounts created and Ghana were consistently coordinated posting on the same topic with an hours of each other. Instagram account, which makes sense if they're all sitting around a table.

Instagram accounts appear to have done especially well. The most popular Instagram account built a following of more than 25,000. That's three times its Twitter audience. US Senator Mark Warner, vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said in response to CNN's investigation here. He said, I've said for years now that it would be foolish to believe there was only the one well publicized IRA facility in St. Petersburg. This new reporting is a reminder of the continuing threat we face from Russia and its continuing efforts to divide and manipulate us on social media.

Yep. Yeah. That's part of the hard part about having conversations online right now is you don't know who the fuck is a bot and you don't know who is real anymore. Bot Sentinel is pretty great. Yeah. I check people so consistently on there now. I've even, you know, it's funny. A lot of people say, oh, well, there's a lot of, quote unquote, Bernie Bros, which are bots. I think that there are bots of every supporter. Yeah. Because I've had, I've been seeing supports by people who are, over the last few months, who are quote unquote supporters of another democratic candidate. And I'm like, how, this is nasty. I don't think this is real. And even outside of presidential stuff, there's even just accounts that will get really aggressive over like, even just vaguely political things sort of. And they'll just like comment and slip in

talking points that are out of nowhere. And like those people are almost certainly bots. Yep. But then I see people take the bait and they'll comment back Would be you know to like they say stuff Trump is for sure retweeted bots. Oh, yep. I as political opinions Many times. Well, I don't know many times, but at least a couple of times I know he's done that or he's retweeted people who have like two followers Yeah, and and the the scary part is that these like this this Ghanian compound and the internet research, these aren't bots, these are people. Or, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Then, you know, who have been online for a while, they're the idea is to have an online presence and talk about ice cream and making bread and whatever you do. And then to be turned on to be politicized. And so it's just, that's why they're so hard to track. It's pretty easy to track bots, right? Yeah, yeah.

But these folks, it's much harder. All right, well, that's my hot note. You all ready for sabotage? Yes. Yes. All right, remember last week when Simone Mangeonte, a tweet divorced George Poppidopoulos saying she was upset about what he said on his podcast. Yes. Well, she's taken it back.

Oh, you know, new tweets saying she acted out of anger. I think they're back together. Oh my God. No one cares. I know. I'm going to put myself in the face for reporting this. No, no, no. Well, I just, I mean, I, I, I care in the sense that it's great to see them fall publicly

further and further into, you know, the depths of just being the most non credible, creative people. Yeah, especially if one of those running for Congress. This was really more of a correction, but totally Oh my god, they're so reminiscent though everyone's known that couple. We're at a certain point. It's just like Shut the fuck up. Don't tell me about your shit then Couple name either What are two first names? Papa John Taylor George

George and Simone if that is her real name. Jimona Papa Papa Doppajante. Oh Papa John Teh Papa John Teh Papa John Teh Papa John Teh Papa John Teh Papa John Teh Papa John Teh Papa John Teh Papa Papa George who is a really racist so good company. Oh, yeah, didn't you have to like step down from the border? I think so yeah Yeah, I'm good remember Oh, yeah, didn't he have to like step down from the border? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. That's a good thing. Remember, imagine being someone who was like,

Trump didn't really meet any of that four years ago. Mm-hmm. Yeah, he did. It's shocking. Alright, let's play the fantasy indictment league. I'm gonna be a dick! No way, it's gonna be okay. I'm gonna be a dick.

A dick! A dick! A dick! A dick! A dick! A dick! A dick! It's gonna be okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna

I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna pardon. Can we do part is okay cool it's about that time yeah right uh

juliani I freaking hope so um am I Gilen. Ooh. Just like... A Tom Barric. Nice. And you said, am I already... I'll go superseding Parnas. Mm-hmm.

I almost forgot about those guys. The Parnas in Prumish. Yeah. I'll go superseding Fruman. Nice. Do-do-do-do-do-do. Hmm. They're just awaiting court dates then right now. I guess. Nice. Doodoo doodoo. They're just awaiting court dates then right now. I guess.

Yeah. But there could be additional charges. Yeah, yeah, totally. I'm just wondering why we haven't seen them in the news at all. Super seating career. C-O-R-R-E-I-A, I think. Packer. Thank you. Still my Packer.

That's such a twisted version of the Got Your Nose Game. Oh, got your Packer. Oh my god, you don't say that one't look at seriously give it back God all right, um, I'm gonna go with my final pick to be Dylan Howard. Nice. Oh, that's it, isn't it? Yeah. Okay, that's all we got. So that is how we play the fantasy indictment league. If you want to play, head to Patreon. All right, so as we all know, March 31st, the Supreme Court will hear arguments on the House

Sapena of Trump's Deutsche Bank records. So who better to speak to about what might be in them than the author of Dark Towers, David Enrich. He'll be joining us right after the break. Stay with us. Hey everybody, this segment of Mola Shereaux is brought to you by Third Love, the makers of my all-time favorite bras ever in the history of bras. Third Love believes that every woman deserves to feel comfortable and confident every day

with the right kind of support. They help her do this. And third love bras are designed to fit you, not the other way around. Their bras are tailored to your specific individual shape and are designed for ultimate comfort and wearability. Many women, including myself, fall in between cup sizes, so I would always either get cup gap or spillage like the overspill, like your cup runneth over, which makes it incredibly frustrating and difficult to find the right fit.

But not anymore. Third love has over 80 bra sizes. They're an industry leader in the number of sizes they have, and they have signature half cup sizes, so you can find the perfect fit just for you. Just check out their fit finder quiz online. Just a minute or so, I was able to find the right bra designed to fit me. Third Love uses your info plus data for millions of women who've already taken the quiz, factoring in cup size and brush shape to find the perfect bra. Every third love bra is made with light weight, super thin memory foam cups that molde your shape. They have no slip straps that don't dig and they don't have tags, so you don't have the

itchy tag in there. It's all designed for the ultimate comfort. With third love's perfect fit promise, which is absolutely amazing. You have 60 days to wash it where it tried out and if you don't absolutely love it, if it's not the perfect fit for you you returns and exchanges are free and easy and they donate all their gently used bras to women in need so far they've donated over $15 million in bras supporting charities across the US. Third Love Nose, there's a perfect bra for everyone so right now they're offering our listeners 15% off

your first order so go to thirdlove.com slash AG now to find your perfect fitting bra and get 15% off your first purchase. That's thirdlove.com slash AG for 15% off today. All right everybody welcome back. Today for the interview we have the finance editor of the New York Times and author of the new book Dark Towers, Deutsche Bank Donald Trump and an epic trail of destruction. And if you're a regular listener you'll know David Enrich's work from our coverage of his New York Times piece called Me and My Whistleblower about Val Brooks Schmidt, the son of a Deutsche Bank executive who gained access to his father's emails after his father had died by suicide. But this book, Dark Towers, is the product of interviews not with just Val, but with nearly

200 sources. And he's with us today to discuss his book and his findings. David and Rich, thanks for coming on Mueller, she wrote. Thanks for having me. Now, I just want you to know up front, our listeners are pretty well read. They're familiar with a lot of the actors in your book, including Justin Kennedy, Rose Mary Raybillick, some of the subsidiaries of Deutsche Bank, but your book goes very deep into the weeds. So, we can talk at a pretty high level without having to give too much background on the major players,

and I know you're well aware of what's come out in public reporting prior to your book. So I just wanted you to know, we're familiar with those stories, but all of this new information in your book is absolutely fascinating. And that's what I wanted to discuss in more detail. Great. Great. So first, just to jump right in, can you tell us about some of the previously unreported transactions and services between Deutsche Bank and Trump or Kusher or either. Yeah, so, I mean, obviously there are the two billion dollars plus in loans over the past 20 years, but with some of what I found, I thought was more interesting than that because it's not loans.

It's providing other financial services and products. And I think the two most interesting examples of that, one is that in the mid-2000s, around 2005, Trump and some real estate partners were trying to build a couple of resorts, one in Hawaii and the other in Baja California, so Mexico. And basically, the first step in doing projects like that is that you need to find investors, not just to just lend you money or to have equity in like that is that you need to find investors not just to just lend you money or to have equity in the project, but you need people to buy condos or blocks of condos in advance, which provides really essential kind of startup funding for these projects.

And Trump, to get that money and to find early buyers for his condos, went to Deutsche Bank. Deutsche Bank set up a bunch of kind of gatherings for him in London and elsewhere where a bunch of Deutsche Bank's wealthiest clients came to meet with Trump and meet with his real estate partners. And some of those people were very well-connected wealthy Russians, including some who were directly linked to the Kremlin. And in some cases, those very wealthy Russians used anonymous shell companies to buy huge blocks of condominiums in these as yet unbuilt Trump projects. And so really provided essential kind of get off the ground funding for Trump. And so that means that draws a pretty direct line between Trump and some people

that I think are pretty household names among Russians in the, so people that you've heard of. And I unfortunately do not have it. I didn't nail down quite enough to actually say what those names are because I just haven't been able to nail them, unfortunately, but my understanding is that it's people with pretty public track records of opera hidden in some pretty sketchy ways in Russia.

So that's the one thing too is that around the same time the bank was helping Trump buy properties all over the world really that never actually came to light and they were in places like Malta and elsewhere where they're very limited disclosure requirements and therefore these are popular destinations for people who are looking to hide assets. And Deutsche Bank helped Trump set up special purpose vehicles to purchase these properties

and then provided him with derivatives that essentially enabled him to buy these properties with while putting his zero of his own money down. So he was basically agreeing to fork over in advance. He was selling rights essentially to revenue that he expected to raise in the future for these properties so that he wouldn't have to actually put a single penny of his own money down.

And so in Deutsche Bank, that was all because of Deutsche. And what of the bank's efforts? I mean, before we get too deep into that, I remember seeing some sort of public reporting, or it might have actually been from you talking in your New York Times piece, I just don't, I can't remember the exact source, something about those loans being paid off by a subsidiary of Deutsche Bank. Is that something that you had found in your research? Well, some of the loans, so Trump, basically, as I'm sure,

Trump's main kind of ammo for operating the banking industry is that he would, he default over and over again. He stifts his lenders, his business partners, his contractors, his lawyers, et cetera, et cetera. And among the many people and entities that Trump has stiffed over the ear is Deutsche Bank, which he's defaulted on a couple of loans

from Deutsche Bank over the years. And like clockwork, Deutsche Bank basically loses his interest in Trump for a couple of years and then immediately comes Russian back. And so the most recent iteration of that took place at the end of 2011, which is a few years after Trump had defaulted on the $640 million loan to build a skyscraper in Chicago. And Deutsche Bank had been, or Trump had defaulted on the $640 million loan to build a skyscraper in Chicago, and

Trump had been declared by Deutsche Bank to be just completely off limits at that point. And yet, at the end of 2011, this squirrelly little arm of Deutsche Bank, the private wealth management division, came back and agreed to lend him nearly $50 million that was used in Eurmer specifically so that Trump could pay back another arm of Deutsche Bank that he had previously defaulted on. So it was kind of this very incestuous thing that to me really reveals just how desperate and have reckless Deutsche Bank was in its never-ending quest to increase its shorter property.

They had seen all these red flags about Trump over and over and over again. And yet because he appears in the moment to be kind of a juicy target for them, they go for it. And how was Justin Kennedy involved? Where did he come into the picture? Was it after the defaults and with that $50 million loan or before, because I know that he had a hand

in getting some of this, or at least in that arm that you're talking about, for lending to Donald Trump. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. And so Kennedy joined Deutsche Bank in the late 1990s. Right as Deutsche Bank was making this huge push to go from being this traditional kind of provincial German and European lender to getting big on Wall Street. And one of the key spaces that wanted to get big on Wall Street was in the commercial real-state business. And the problem is it was going up against big established United States banks and

even some British banks in that space. And so none of, and you know, those banks had the kind of the best clients out there. None of those best clients had any particular interest in doing business with this German bank whose name they couldn't be in pronounced. And so going to be left in this predicament where it basically had to go bottom fishing and it needed to find clients who were essentially unbankable in the mainstream banking industry and Trump just fit that bill perfectly. And so Kennedy was a part of the original crew that made several hundred million dollars of loans to Trump

to finance the renovations of a tower on Wall Street and then the construction of a skyscraper right across the United Nations. And Trump paid back both of those loans, of a skyscraper right across the United Nations. And Trump paid back both of those loans, but then he defaulted on some other debt that he owed to the bank. And Kennedy kind of rose up through the ranks during this period and was just completely undeterred about work with him.

And he Trump wind him and dined him. They went to watch the US Open Together. They would hang out at nightclubs together. Meanwhile, all during all this time, Anthony Kennedy, so Justin's father, is regularly popping by Deutsche Bank's offices and saying hi to the executives there and giving everyone little hugs to thank them for being so nice to his son. And kind of the crowning achievement for Kennedy at Deutsche Bank during this period was in 2005 when he was one of the leaders that

helped do this huge $640 million loan to build from the ground up this glistening skyscraper and development on the Chicago Riverside. And that loan was good for about two and a half years until the financial crisis hit at which point Trump happily defaulted on it. And from my reporting, I learned that Kennedy happened to bump into Trump shortly after. So, Trump defaults on it and is not even content to just leave it at that. He instead sues Deutsche Bank, seeking billions of dollars in damages from the bank. And Kennedy, which is a very aggressive move, obviously. And Kennedy bumps into Trump shortly after that. And Trump says, hey, you know, no hard feelings, I hope. And Kennedy, who at that point was kind of looking toward the future, said, no, it was just business. We understand it all as well. And Kennedy resigned

from coaching them shortly after that, but then went on later in its career to do a tremendous amount of financial work for the Trumps, for the cushionners, for Don Jr. and Ivanka as well. So they became, they were already quite close and became even closer in the ensuing years. And what sort of, I know that the, there were several whistleblowers from Deutsche Bank. What sort of efforts did they make to quash these whistleblowers, specifically the ones tied with Trump and Kushner transactions, for example? I mean, they were, one of Deutsche Bank's kind of defining traits is that it does not do very well with dissent.

They don't like people saying no. And so, I mean, I've had some personal experience with this because last year I went down to Jacksonville, Florida where Deutsche Bank has its big anti-money laundering operations in the US. And I met with a whole bunch of employees, one of whom went on the record. Her name is Tammy McFadden, who had been an anti-money laundering officer at the bank. And it spotted what she deemed to be suspicious transactions in the Kushner Company's accounts, where money was moving from the Kushner accounts. And this is the summer of 2016. So right in the middlener Company's accounts where money was moving from the Kushner accounts, and this is the summer of 2016.

So, right in the middle of the election, moving from the Kushner accounts to some Russian individuals. And he tried to file suspicious activity reports with the federal government, which is kind of a standard operating procedure in that case. And she told me it was just, it wasn't even a kind of borderline call. It was an easy call for her. And she prepared her report, and normally we just get rubber stamped by someone up the food chain.

And these banks air on the side of over reporting, suspicious transactions, rather than under-reporting them. And in this case, the bank said, nope, not going to file that, killed it. And McFadden was alarmed by this and complained vigorously to anyone who would listen inside the bank. And that her complaints led pretty quickly to her being transferred out of the division where she had any visibility into what was happened to the Trump and Kushner accounts.

And then within like a year and a half, she was fired by the bank. Yeah, I remember that coming out, that story coming out. And then there was something about the Kushner and Trump loan being consolidated or something. I, there's just. Yeah, you know, to be honest, I've seen that report too. One of the things that's been struggled for me with this book is that there's a lot of speculation and rumor and kind of innuendo out there.

And one of the things I've tried really hard to do is really stick to the facts that I've been able to verify myself and kind of holding them up to, I don't know, I mean, again, this could be a critique as well as a compliment, I guess, but like holding it up to New York Times standards. And we're very rigorous. And I guess someone's a anal, a really anal

about sources and sources of information. But that's kind of the way we do business. And so I have not been able to verify any of that kind of stuff. And I know there have been other some reports of it out there. To my knowledge, it's not true. But look, the big thing with Deutsche Bank in Trump is that we, you know, I've interviewed nearly 200 sources, as you said, but I unfortunately lack subpoena power.

And so, I mean, definitely there is more information to be got here. And the potentially good news is that in later this summer, there are in a few months, the Supreme Court is going to rule one way or the other on whether Deutsche Bank needs to comply with a couple of congressional subpoenas that are demanding the bank fork over, essentially, all of its Trump records and all of its internal records related to Trump. So, if the Supreme Court upholds those subunits, that will provide us with this just absolutely unique view into the inner workings of Trump's finances. Now, we don't know how to record rules.

Yeah, because I mean, we are, that's why I like being a podcast and not working for the New York Times. I can speculate wildly. I know you can, and I've heard you do it. But I am very big on making sure people know when I'm speculating wildly and what the actual facts are. I wanted to ask you, because I mean, the two big questions are right,

from this Deutsche Bank thing, which I believe they're hearing arguments here in just a few weeks, and we should have the answer in the summertime and at June, July. And the two big questions we've all been asking that we don't have smoking gun documents for, are were Trump's loans underwritten by Russian oligarchs,

and was there a deal involving justice Kennedy's retirement? Those are like the two big things that we, you know, that we're looking for from Deutsche Bank that we just can't seem to get our hands on. Yep, and look, I mean, I think the book sheds quite a bit of light on the Kennedy situation. And there's, I have a lot of access to people with pretty direct knowledge what was going on there. And so the book really does,

I think, do a pretty authoritative job of tracing that. When it comes to the Russia stuff, and what we know, and again, I think the book does, kind of reveals more about this than is ever been previously known, but I enjoy to banks ties to the Kremlin are extraordinarily tight. And there is so much so that when the bank's long time CEO stepped down, he was immediately offered a job personally

by Vladimir Putin to work in the Kremlin. And so, but look, the rumor that's been out there circulating for, I mean, almost five years now, is that, very, it's almost four years now, is that Trump was, the loans that Trump were underwritten by, by the Kremlin or by one of the kind of state-owned banks. And I have spent years now trying to figure this out and I have not been able to confirm it.

And in fact, every one I talk to who has knowledge, direct knowledge, what's going on, did nice that, but maybe they, that's what they would do. And again, I don't have subpoena power. So I agree with you that that is that's kind of one of the big unanswered questions. But even if there's not proof of that in the Deutsche Bank files,

we're still going to learn an enormous amount about Trump's most forbidden secrets. And whether it's his tax returns or where he's getting his money from internationally, whose foreign business partners are, whether he's paying taxes, not to mention any internal documents about Deutsche Bank's concerns

about him laundering money through his account. So this is really, it's gonna be a big tro, it will be pretty explosive, I hope. Yeah, and I think one of the big stories that comes out of your book, you know, okay, so we don't have the smoking gun about underwritten by oligarchs. But the fact that the Russians were buying up units

in Trump Tower, which they've been doing for a really long time, is I think big and bad enough on its own. There's just a standalone, you know, concept that was happening because that's like you said, without people buying up these condos, they're not going to sell. So that's sort of a fraudulent falsification of the demand on these units and these Russians buy them up.

Yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely the extensive nature of Trump's dealings with Russians through Deutsche Bank. There's really no question about it at this point. There is questions about, look, we don't know the amount of money that went from politically connected Russians to Donald Trump in its companies, but I think it's safe to assume that it's considerable. And we've kind of lost sight of that, I think, over the past couple of years. Yeah, I agree

Before I let you go Val Brooks met reached out to us after we did the reporting on your New York Times piece about him And I was just wondering if there's anything you wanted to say to him Yeah, I mean, I said this to Val Val was pretty unhappy with that article I wrote back in October and That was a complicated character. I've known him for six years now. Believe it or not, and it's been the most intense source relationship I've ever had. And I've learned a lot along the way, and I've made mistakes along the way.

And one of the things I've told him previously is that the article was accurate, and I thought thought it was fair and it was certainly honest. I mean, I wrote it in the first person and it was a true portrayal of how I was feeling and how I perceived things. That being said, it was too harsh in retrospect. I wish I had not brought the full weight of the New York Times to bear on who's a person

who's essentially a private individual, even though he was kind of trying to make a public name for himself. I wish I had been a little bit nicer, and I feel badly that I wasn't, and I'm sorry, and I've said that to Val, and it's true, I wish I had not been quite as, I wish I had been a little bit nicer,

and so I feel bad about that. Well, I appreciate you saying that, and thank you very much. This has been absolutely fascinating. I really encourage everyone to get dark towers. I'm assuming it's available everywhere. Books are sold. Absolutely. Yeah, it's really, really fascinating. And we're all going to be inside for a while. So, you know, maybe, maybe a good time, grab the audio book or pick it up off of, you know, wherever you, wherever you

get your books. So thank you very much, Financial Editor of New York Times, author of the new book, Dark Towers, Deutsche Bank, Donald Trump, and an epic trail of destruction. David Enrich, thanks for coming on to Mollershoe Road. Thanks so much for having me. All right, everybody, that's our show.

Thank you so much for listening. We really appreciate it. We really appreciate your support. Please give us a rating online and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. That's totally free to do. If you want to become a premium member, you get ad free episodes of the daily beans,

and you get them the night before they come out to the public, and you get video stuff. We got video in the studio now, where we do questions episodes, bonus content, all sorts of books, clubs, past book clubs. You can have access to that we didn't put out to the public. Just a lot of really awesome stuff for our patrons,

plus free gifts and cool stuff like that. So. We're almost at 1200 ratings on Apple podcasts. Ooh, I get daily beans or. Or yeah, for daily beans. Nice. Oh, this is from Meloshirot. I was getting excited for nothing.

But also review the daily beans. No, you can be excited about it. Yeah, I can. Yeah, you go. Thank you. Any fun thoughts everybody? Wash your hands and stay the fuck home. Yeah, hashtag stay the fuck home is actually trending. Yeah.

All right, well that's it. Everyone please take care of yourself. Take care of each other. I've been AG. I'm a Jordan Coburn. I've been Amanda Rita. And this is Mollarshi Road. The Mollershy Road is executive produced and directed by A.G. and Jordan Coburn with Engineering and Editing by Mackenzie Mazal and Starburn's Industries. Our marketing manager, production and social media direction is by Amanda Reader, fact checking your research by A.G., Jordan Coburn and Amanda Reader, and our knowledgeable listeners. Our web design and branding are by Joao Reader with Moxie Design Studios and our website is mullishirob.com.

Season 4 of How We Win Is Here For the past four years we've been making history in critical elections all over the country. And last year we made history again by expanding our majority in the Senate, eating election denying Republicans and crucial state house races, and fighting back a non-existent red wave. But the Magga Republicans who plotted and pardoned the attempted overthrow of our government now control the House, thanks to gerrymandered maps and repressive anti-voter laws.

And the chaotic spectacle we've already seen shows us just how far they will go to seize power, dismantle our government, and take away our freedoms. So the official podcast of the persistence is back with season four. There's so much more important work ahead of us to fight for equity, justice, and our very democracy itself. We'll take you behind the lines and inside the rooms where it happens, with strategy and inspiration from progressive change makers all over the country. And we'll dig deep into the weekly news that matters most and what you can do about it. With messaging and communications expert,

co-founder of Way to Win, and our new co-host, Jennifer Fernandez and Cona. So join Steve and I every Wednesday for your weekly dose of inspiration, action, and hope. I'm Steve Pearson. And I'm Jennifer Fernandez and Cona. And this is how we win.